Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Ben Goren via EV]

On Nov 12, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Here I am finally possibly buying an OEM EV.  Long way from my 1956VW with an 
> ADC and 12v marine batteries.

Amazing turn of EVents, indeed -- and seemingly overnight. When I put the PV 
array on my roof a few years ago and intentionally oversized it for an EV, an 
OEM EV wasn't remotely on my radar and I figured whatever DIY conversion I did 
was going to be a bit of a big deal. Didn't give it much thought aside from 
back-of-the-envelope ballpark guesses for how much extra panel capacity I 
thought I'd want.

Today, a Leaf would actually be a not-unreasonable option for me...and it would 
actually probably be cheaper than my plans for turning the '64 1/2 Mustang into 
a PHEV. But I'm probably going to go the PHEV route anyway...because it'll be 
the best of all worlds. Mostly just an EV, but also a road trip car...and with 
what should be a Tesla-beating all-wheel-drive hybrid mode...and, 
oh-by-the-way, also an iconic muscle car with the proverbial roaring V8 when 
such is called for

There's reason to hope that, before long, it'll be as hard to find a new car 
without an electric motor as it is today to find a new car without an automatic 
transmission. If we can make the transition to EVs significantly faster than we 
made the automatic transmission transition, we might actually survive the end 
of petroleum

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Ken Olum via EV]

We recently bought a 2013 with chademo & 6.6kw charger for $10,800 list
(plus $500 dealer charge, etc.) and are pretty happy with it.  Before
2013 there was no percentage battery charge readout on the dash.  After
2013 there was no "charge only to 80%" option.

Recent battery packs are larger, though.

Don't make the mistake that we made of thinking that the dashboard
battery health display will actually tell you the battery condition.
Apparently when the car is serviced this display can get reset to show
full health, even if that isn't true.  Instead, go armed with an
OBDII bluetooth adapter and the Leafspy app on your phone, and you can
find out the truth.  If you have a friend with a Leaf, first make sure your
adapter works and learn how to use the app.

Ken
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[EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

I have seen some very good prices on 2013 Leafs with chademo & 6.6 chargers.  
I'm selling the veggie mobile and will need a car and since 12k is affordable 
to me I'm thinking of replacing the mess and thrift with almost as thrifty but 
much less messy electric.  Is there a "best" year of leaf so far?  Lawrence 
Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Ben Goren via EV]

On Nov 12, 2015, at 1:50 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> I have seen some very good prices on 2013 Leafs with chademo & 6.6 chargers.  
> I'm selling the veggie mobile and will need a car and since 12k is affordable 
> to me I'm thinking of replacing the mess and thrift with almost as thrifty 
> but much less messy electric.  Is there a "best" year of leaf so far?

I may well think you're a bit crazy for your mobile solar ideas...but you're 
absolutely spot-on with this.

My parents _still_ can't stop raving about their Leaf. For excellent reason.

So long as the range fits your driving habits, there isn't any other passenger 
vehicle in that price range that can even remotely compare to how good a car 
the Leaf is. It's got all the modern niceties and fit-and-finish and the rest 
one could ask for, plus all the advantages of a BEV that the choir here knows 
so well. And, as you note, used ones are solidly in the affordable econobox 
price range -- even though they'd be the ultimate luxury car of the '90s.

The _best_ year so far for the Leaf has to be 2017, with that big jump in 
battery capacity. But you can't actually buy those yet. And 2016 is certainly 
the second-best, and you _can_ buy those...but for full sticker price, not what 
you're looking for.

Before this year, there's been one significant change in battery management / 
chemistry / whatever to address first-generation problems in hot climates. I 
_think_ 2013 is the first model year after that change went into production, 
but don't quote me, especially if you live in an hot climate or you're 
considering a car coming from such a place.

Regardless, your main concern is going to be matching the battery health of the 
particular car (of whatever model year) with your needs and perception of 
value. If you're in a mild climate with modest range needs, you may well be 
just fine with a well-used first-generation Leaf down a few battery bars, even 
though the same car would be useless for somebody in Phoenix doing a daily 
50-mile commute.

And...unless you know up front that you actually will need the charger, save 
yourself some pennies and don't buy it. Really, truly. My parents only got the 
110v charger with the car. For a couple weeks, Dad was doing all sorts of 
Internet searches for cheap chargers or DIY options or the like, just to have 
something for "just in case"...and then he realized what a waste it would be. 
If a Leaf is the right car for you, 110v charging is also right for you. You'll 
start every morning with a full battery...and what more could you possibly need?

b&

P.S. For bonus points, after your bank account has recovered from spending 
money on the Leaf...toss a few kW of PV panels on your garage / carport...and, 
hey-presto, you've got the solar-powered electric vehicle you've dreaming 
of b&
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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Jamie K via EV]

I think of 2013 as LEAF version 1.5. The SV could be the value sweet 
spot although used SLs may compete depending on how prices trend.


Nissan is a bit cagey about it, but it seems like the 2013 batteries 
were tweaked a bit.


The 2013 battery percentage display is very useful; the heat pump on the 
SV and SL saves range in winter; 6.6kW charging makes the car MUCH more 
useful for multiple trips during the day (charges twice as fast as 3.3kW 
and 5 times faster than 110v); the Chademo fast charging capability 
makes it MUCH more useful for longer trips when it's necessary to charge 
along the way; the lighted charge port is useful; and the remote button 
to open the charge port is handy.


Other niceties that may also be in earlier models: Heated seats and 
steering wheel; timed preheat/cooling; and USB connection to phones for 
music. There's also navigation but we tend to use phone mapping and 
plugshare.


What's missing: on the SV: no backup camera unless the car also has the 
bose speaker option, which takes up trunk space.


2014 and 2015 seem to be much the same as the 2013, although there may 
be additional battery tweaks and they do have backup cameras. I'm not 
sure if other options changed. The 2013 is the last year to offer 
automatic charge to 80% to go easier on the batteries - does that mean 
2014 batteries are better or did they base that on encouraging data from 
the 2013 batteries (or are they just gaming the EPA range rating)? Hard 
to say.


So far, at about 20k miles, we've really been enjoying our 2013 SV and 
expect to do so for years to come.


The 2016's extra range would be a nice improvement but it all depends on 
what your driving patterns/needs are for the car. Right now the 2013 
LEAF's range works fine for our typical driving around town. It would be 
cool if, when the time comes to replace the batteries (in another 5+ 
years), Nissan would offer higher range choices for replacement packs.


Cheers,
 -Jamie
 www.JamieKrutz.com



On 11/12/15 1:50 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

I have seen some very good prices on 2013 Leafs with chademo & 6.6
chargers.  I'm selling the veggie mobile and will need a car and
since 12k is affordable to me I'm thinking of replacing the mess and
thrift with almost as thrifty but much less messy electric.  Is there
a "best" year of leaf so far?  Lawrence Rhodes -- next
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Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 12 Nov 2015 at 11:59, Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV wrote:

> Considering the rule of EVs efficiency of 250Watt-hr per mile on a 2500 lbs
> compact car,  May it apply same in order to calculate the energy efficiency of
> a prototype motorcycle?

Maybe, but remember that a  bike's aerodynamic qualities are significantly 
worse than a car's.  This is because the bike's rider adds quite a bit of 
wind resistance.

Another (possibly better) way to estimate the EV bike's energy efficiency 
might be to look at a similar ICE bike's fuel efficiency.  

Taking the efficiency difference into account, an 8kWh lithium battery, 
fully discharged, provides about the same range as a gallon of gasoline.  So 
if your car got 35mpg as an ICEV, it should get around 230Wh/mi as an EV.  
If your motorcycle got 100mpg as an ICEV, it should use around 80 Wh/mi as 
an EV.

Another way is to check the EV Album for similar vehicles.  For example:

http://evalbum.com/5125

This is a 450lb conversion bike with an 84v, 30ah (2520Wh) LiFePO4 battery. 
The range is listed as 40mi, so that's 63 Wh/mi.

Or this one:

http://evalbum.com/5128

This has a 768Wh battery and a range of 15 miles for an energy usage of 51.2 
Wh/mi.  However, the top speed is only 35mph, so the bikes' relatively poor 
aerodynamics may not play a very large role here.

This bike can do 60mph:

http://evalbum.com/5114

Even though it weighs only 176lb, it has a 3990 (!) Wh battery and a range 
of 50 miles, which works out to about 80 Wh/mi.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

Well the 2016 is advertised but in San Francisco I can't get one.  I'm thinking 
2013 for myself as I get to use our 2012 regularly & I don't have the lead foot 
of my wife.  Seems the 2016 announcement has put a stop to sales of 2015 cars 
but I haven't seen any reduction of the 15's.  I might get a 16 if they were 
here. I've been doing alternate energy and transportation for a long time.  
Here I am finally possibly buying an OEM EV.  Long way from my 1956VW with an 
ADC and 12v marine batteries. Lawrence Rhodes 
  From: Ben Goren <b...@trumpetpower.com>
 To: Lawrence Rhodes <primobass...@sbcglobal.net>; Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
 Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 1:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.
   
On Nov 12, 2015, at 1:50 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> I have seen some very good prices on 2013 Leafs with chademo & 6.6 chargers.  
> I'm selling the veggie mobile and will need a car and since 12k is affordable 
> to me I'm thinking of replacing the mess and thrift with almost as thrifty 
> but much less messy electric.  Is there a "best" year of leaf so far?

I may well think you're a bit crazy for your mobile solar ideas...but you're 
absolutely spot-on with this.

My parents _still_ can't stop raving about their Leaf. For excellent reason.

So long as the range fits your driving habits, there isn't any other passenger 
vehicle in that price range that can even remotely compare to how good a car 
the Leaf is. It's got all the modern niceties and fit-and-finish and the rest 
one could ask for, plus all the advantages of a BEV that the choir here knows 
so well. And, as you note, used ones are solidly in the affordable econobox 
price range -- even though they'd be the ultimate luxury car of the '90s.

The _best_ year so far for the Leaf has to be 2017, with that big jump in 
battery capacity. But you can't actually buy those yet. And 2016 is certainly 
the second-best, and you _can_ buy those...but for full sticker price, not what 
you're looking for.

Before this year, there's been one significant change in battery management / 
chemistry / whatever to address first-generation problems in hot climates. I 
_think_ 2013 is the first model year after that change went into production, 
but don't quote me, especially if you live in an hot climate or you're 
considering a car coming from such a place.

Regardless, your main concern is going to be matching the battery health of the 
particular car (of whatever model year) with your needs and perception of 
value. If you're in a mild climate with modest range needs, you may well be 
just fine with a well-used first-generation Leaf down a few battery bars, even 
though the same car would be useless for somebody in Phoenix doing a daily 
50-mile commute.

And...unless you know up front that you actually will need the charger, save 
yourself some pennies and don't buy it. Really, truly. My parents only got the 
110v charger with the car. For a couple weeks, Dad was doing all sorts of 
Internet searches for cheap chargers or DIY options or the like, just to have 
something for "just in case"...and then he realized what a waste it would be. 
If a Leaf is the right car for you, 110v charging is also right for you. You'll 
start every morning with a full battery...and what more could you possibly need?



b&

P.S. For bonus points, after your bank account has recovered from spending 
money on the Leaf...toss a few kW of PV panels on your garage / carport...and, 
hey-presto, you've got the solar-powered electric vehicle you've dreaming 
of b&

  
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Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[Ben Goren via EV]

On Nov 12, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Considering the rule of EVs efficiency of 250Watt-hr per mile on a 2500 lbs
> compact car,  May it apply same in order to calculate the energy efficiency
> of a prototype motorcycle?

We had this discussion a little while back. Motorcycles, as it turns out, have 
pretty miserable aerodynamics.

Your best bet for this sort of back-of-the-envelope sort of estimation would be 
to use ICE efficiency as a proxy. If you start with a car that gets about 30 
MPG and do an electric conversion and get a BEV that does 3 miles per kWh, you 
can figure that, if you start with a motorcycle that gets about 30 MPG...after 
electric conversion, it, too, will also do about 3 miles per kWh. (Pulling 
numbers out of my...ear...to illustrate the principle. I'm certain that's not 
the actual resulting relative efficiencies, but it shouldn't be *too* far off.)

There's lots you can do to improve the aerodynamics of a motorcycle, with a 
simple front fairing being the best bang for the buck. The ultimate expression 
of that would be the velomobile, a fully-faired recumbent bicycle that can 
cruise at freeway speeds with about the power consumption of an hairdryer. As 
in, champion cyclists can do it unassisted, at least for a little while...and 
weekend warriors can do it indefinitely with a single-kilowatt electric assist. 
To make math easy, figure 1500 W for 60 MPH, which gives you 40 miles per kWh 
or 0.025 kWh/mile.

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[Willie2 via EV]

On 11/12/2015 02:23 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:


Another (possibly better) way to estimate the EV bike's energy efficiency
might be to look at a similar ICE bike's fuel efficiency.
I used to ride a 750cc bike.  At ~80 mph, fuel consumption was 25-30 
mpg.  At ~50 mph, it could go as high as 50 mpg.  Barely better than a 
small car.


Much smaller bikes could approach 100mpg but that was mainly due to 
limited speeds.



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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Alan Brinkman via EV]

Lawrence,

The 2013 had an improvement to the battery for hot weather. The 2011 or 2012 
will be a little lower in price. Review the models and see if you want 
navigation, etc. But be sure to get the fast charging option if that is what 
you want. Newer models are reasonably priced for what you get.

Alan



Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone.

-- Original Message --
>From : Lawrence Rhodes via EV
Subject : [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

I have seen some very good prices on 2013 Leafs with chademo & 6.6 chargers.  
I'm selling the veggie mobile and will need a car and since 12k is affordable 
to me I'm thinking of replacing the mess and thrift with almost as thrifty but 
much less messy electric.  Is there a "best" year of leaf so far?  Lawrence 
Rhodes
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[EVDL] EVLN: Trade in your ice ride for an adult e-tricycle

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://qz.com/544329/would-you-trade-in-your-car-for-an-adult-tricycle/
Would you trade in your car for an adult tricycle?
2015-11-08  Olivia Goldhill

[image  
https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/screen-shot-2015-11-08-at-12.jpg
Who needs a driverless car when you've got one of these? (MIT Media Lab)
]

The latest vehicle invention doesn’t look particularly hi-tech, but it could
potentially transform how we travel around busy cities.

An electric tricycle, invented by Ryan Chin from MIT’s media lab, is
designed to meet EU bike regulations, currently travels at just 12 miles per
hour, and is intended to fit in bike lanes.

But, unlike existing tricycles (or any other mode of transportation), it’s
able to travel without a rider. “It uses low cost sensors to scan the
environment, localize itself and use edge detection to get around,” said
Chin at the EmTech conference in Cambridge, Massachusetts, on Nov. 2. This
means that the electric tricycle can work as an autonomous valet.

Under Chin’s vision for the electric tricycle, the vehicles wouldn’t be
publicly owned, but shared throughout the city. That way, the tricycles
could arrive whenever needed, carry passengers to their destination, and
then continue on to meet the next passenger. The vehicles can also be
adapted to carry packages, so they can provide a delivery service throughout
major cities. They could also reduce the number of cars on the road, cutting
back on both pollution and traffic.

And, there’s one final benefit to the tricycle over, for example, shared
driverless cars. Chin has named the tricycle a “persuasive electric
vehicle”, and the “persuasive” element is aimed at humans. “The idea behind
the persuasive electric vehicle is to persuade you to get some exercise as
you get to work,” said Chin.

Although the tricycle can travel autonomously, it won’t move if the
passenger sits still. Instead, tricycle riders have to pedal in order to
activate the motor (though the electric assist makes it far easier to go
long distances and up hills).

This means that the vehicle wouldn’t just be good be for the environment,
but also for fitness. Chin’s invention is a long way off from becoming
reality, and bike lanes would have to be changed in order to make them truly
effective. But riding along on an adult tricycle doesn’t seem so silly after
all.
[© qz.com]




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

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[EVDL] Shell or shill? Conspiracy theorists think Apple owns faradayfuture.com

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://www.cultofmac.com/396275/conspiracy-theorist-think-apple-owns-this-mysteryious-car-company/
Conspiracy theorists think Apple owns this mysteryious car company
NOVEMBER 6, 2015  BUSTER HEIN

Is Apple behind Faraday Future? 
A new electric car company has revved up Apple Car conspiracy theorists who
think the mysterious automaker may actually be a shell company for Apple’s
automotive ambitions.

Faraday Future has already pulled in $1 billion in investments and is
stocking up on top Tesla talent (just like Apple), but little else is known
about the new company that currently boasts over 400 employees with plans to
add 100 more of the best automotive engineers and designers in the world
before the end of the year.

Take a look at the rendering of their future car:

Faraday’s roster includes former Tesla employees who have served as director
of vehicle & chassis engineering, director of manufacturing, and vice
president of supply chain. They also sniped BMW’s founding member and lead
designer of the i3 and i8 concepts.

Launching a secret shell company to covertly promote a new product isn’t
Apple’s style, so I highly doubt there’s a connection. In fact, the LA Times
claims the Faraday brand is tied to Chinese billion Jia Yueting, who’s
looking to back up his huge ambitions with the $7 billion he made founding
the company Leshi Internet Information & Technology.

A vendor working with the company in Gardena told The Times that Faraday
hasn’t made any secret of its origin or its plans.

“They told us right off that this is China’s response to Tesla,” said the
vendor, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to
speak for Faraday.

It looks like Faraday Future is definitely not related to Apple in any way,
but we expect to see a lot more from them. The company is positioning itself
to be Tesla and Apple’s biggest rivals according to senior VP/company
spokesman Nick Sampson who says Faraday Future plans to put a rival to the
Tesla Model S on the road by 2017.
[© cultofmac.com]
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill
A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps a
person or organization without disclosing that they have a close
relationship with the person or organization.
Shill typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the
impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller
(or marketer of ideas) for whom they are secretly working. The person or
group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other
onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept
the ideas being marketed). Shills are often employed by professional
marketing campaigns ...
...
http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/11/06/rumor-claims-new-electric-car-maker-faraday-future-is-front-for-apple
Rumor claims new electric car maker Faraday Future is front for Apple
November 06, 2015
...
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2015/11/faraday-future-front-for-apple/
Electric Car Company Faraday Rumored To Be Front For Apple
11/06/2015  Recently a mysterious electric car company called Faraday Future
has been making the headlines. The company has zero product but ...
...
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-faraday-auto-factory-plan-20151105-story.html
Mysterious electric car start-up in Gardena has ties to Chinese
multibillionaire
[November 5, 2015]
...
http://fortune.com/2015/11/11/faraday-secret-china-letv-tesla/
The Secret Story Behind The Latest Would-Be Tesla Challenger
[2015/11/11]  Here's who's behind Faraday Future, a mysterious electric car
startup with big plans. Faraday Future, an electric vehicle maker that has
yet to introduce a car, ...
...
https://www.facebook.com/faradayfuture/
Based in California, FF will deliver a range of seamlessly connected
electric vehicles & unique ownership models.
http://faradayfuture.com/
...
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Faraday-Future/jobs
6 jobs at Faraday Future  Los Angeles, CA
 Content Manager
 Community Manager
 Junior Content Producer
 Director, Social Media
 CAD/CATIA Designer (Automotive experience a plus!)
 Director In Plant Logistics and Production Control (Automotive)
...
[dated]
http://www.hybridcars.com/california-and-nevada-among-four-states-vying-for-faraday-future-ev-factory/
California And Nevada Among Four States Vying For Faraday ...
Aug 28, 2015 ... Though carmaker Faraday Future prefers to keep most of its
plans a secret, it has revealed the locations under consideration for its
new EV ...




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[EVDL] EVLN: 'That Electric wasn't far behind' ... (ice vs EV drags)

[brucedp5 via EV]

% At the end of the video, a spectator is heard in the background to say,
"that electric wasn' that far behind ..." %
 
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/twin-turbo-mustang-driver-would-rather-blow-his-engine-than-lose-to-a-tesla-p85d-video-101804.html
Twin-Turbo Mustang Driver Would Rather Blow His Engine than Lose to a Tesla
P85D - Video
6TH NOVEMBER 2015  ANDREI TUTU  

[images  
http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/twin-turbo-mustang-driver-would-rather-blow-his-engine-that-lose-to-a-tesla-p85d-video-101804_1.jpg

http://img.youtube.com/vi/oSl43bHK4dQ/hqdefault.jpg


video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSl43bHK4dQ
Twin Turbo Mustang would rather blow motor than lose to Tesla P85D!
Tesla Racing Channel  Nov 5, 2015
Tesla Racing Channel back at it again racing the Tesla P85D taking on a twin
turboed foxbody mustang at Wilksboro Dragstrip. He was having slight
problems, sounded like he was running lean with all the popping but didn't
burn a piston or anything serious thankfully! He did get it running much
better later on running a 6.31 at 114 ...
]

 We’ve seen tons of videos that show the Tesla Model S [EV] battling it out
with performance internal combustion engine [ice] machines, all in the quest
to showcase the EV’s speeding abilities. Well, this isn’t one of those
clips.

Instead, we are dealing with a piece of footage that brings us an extreme
twin-turbo Mustang, driven by a guy we suspect belongs to a group of gas
rebels who won’t take electricity for an answer.

The ‘Stang in question is a Fox Body powered by a twin-turbo V8 [ice]. The
action took place on the Wilkesboro Dragstrip in North Carolina and, as we
said, the Ford driver was prepared to risk everything in his quest to beat
the Tesla.

When it came down to dialing down the engine setup due to the risk of
blowing the engine, the guy didn’t want to hear about it. Despite the engine
sounding like it was running lean, the driver ignored the exhaust popping
and kept mashing the throttle.

The details of the race
The two machines battled it out using 1/8-mile runs and we have to remind
you that while the Mustang relied on its fat drag radials, the Tesla has the
all-wheel-drive advantage, a key asset when it comes to drag racing on such
a short distance.

Thankfully, the Ford Mustang didn’t blow its motor. And while we usually
don’t like throwing massive spoilers at you, we have to mention the Fox Body
managed to show the Tesla its rear end in the racing process. 

In fact, the driver managed to get the engine tweaked later in the day and
even pulled a 6.31s run at 114mph. For all you wondering how this would
translate into a quarter mile time, you should know this is a Mustang that,
in theory, can run high 9s passes.
[© autoevolution.com]




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[EVDL] EVLN: Chilean Soki EV> VOZE Vehículos Eléctricos r:60km ts:60kph

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/07/the-soki-is-our-new-three-wheeled-chilean-crush/
The Soki is our new three-wheeled Chilean crush
Nov 7th 2015  Domenick Yoney

[video
https://youtu.be/fIMzOAo8Ec8
Chile launches first electric car, 'Soki'
euronews Knowledge  Oct 7, 2015
The 'Soki' is Chile's first electric car.
Named after an indigenous word meaning 'two', the two-seater can run for up
to 60 km on a battery that charges in three hours.

The brainchild of industrial mechanic Daniel Pavez, it is an updated version
of a previous model. Despite being bigger it weighs 20 percent less and has
been improved in terms of energy efficiency, safety and engineering.
]

 ... we introduce to you the sweet yellow number you see in the video above
called the Sôki. Adorbs, isn't it? Designed by Daniel Pavez, founder of the
Chilean outfit VoZE EV, the first ten examples are expected to go into
production in March of 2016, with a bit of financial help from the Chilean
Economic Development Agency (CORFO). Named for the number two in a local
Patagonian language – the quantity of passengers it seats – this particular
prototype is currently traveling about various cities in its native land
ginning up interest and, we hope, sales.

Powered by a slight 7-kW (10-horsepower) motor, the Sôki is electronically
limited to a top speed of 60 kph (37 miles per hour). Its 7-kWh lithium
battery offers up a range of 60 km (37 miles), thus making it more
appropriate for an urban environment. The price is said to be 8,250,000
Chilean pesos ($11,828 at today's prices).

Since it's quite unlikely this vehicle will make its way to the Northern
Hemisphere (that sound you hear is our tears spilling onto our keyboard),
you can keep up with the company's efforts on its Facebook page. Buena
suerte, mi amor. Buena suerte.
[© autoblog.com]
...
https://www.facebook.com/voze.ev
VOZE Vehículos Eléctricos
http://www.voze.cl/
...
http://www.euronews.com/2015/10/07/chile-launches-first-electric-car-soki/
Chile launches first electric car, ‘Soki’
2015/10/07
...
[dated]
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-12k-Pavez-cl-Soki-2seat-3whl-EV-r-60km-w-removable-4-2kWh-pack-tp4677820.html;cid=1447263619947-416
EVLN: $12k Pavez.cl Soki 2seat 3whl EV r:60km w/ removable 4.2kWh pack
Sep 29 
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Chile-s-first-EV-to-hit-the-city-streets-this-year-tp4664335.html;cid=1447263619947-416
EVLN: Chile’s first EV to hit the city streets this year
Jul 21, 2013
...
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Chile-s-customized-VoZE-EV-rides-tp4663574.html;cid=1447263619947-416
EVLN: Chile's customized VoZE EV rides
Jun 14, 2013 




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[EVDL] EVLN: 9passenger auton Swiss e-tourist-bus

[brucedp5 via EV]

'Autonomous Vehicle tech is accelerating rapidly like a freight train'

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/commercial-vehicle/mhcv/electric-powered-driverless-buses-soon-to-operate-in-switzerland/49711447
Electric powered driverless buses soon to operate in Switzerland
08 November 2015  PTI

[image  
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/photo/49711451.cms
(auton e-bus)
]

The autonomous buses will launch in the canton of Valais, thanks to a
collaboration between PostBus and a Swiss startup founded by graduates from
the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (EPFL) in Lausanne.

GENEVA: In a first, electric-powered driverless public transport buses will
soon be operating in Switzerland which will be able to ferry nine passengers
at a time.

The autonomous buses will launch in the canton of Valais, thanks to a
collaboration between PostBus and a Swiss startup founded by graduates from
the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (EPFL) in Lausanne.

Two new driverless buses will be put in service in Sion during a two-year
test period from early 2016, in what is a first for Switzerland's public
transport system.

The electric-powered vehicles will be able to carry nine passengers at a
time and will be in service in tourist zones in Sion's Old Town, 'The Local'
reported.

Installed with technology developed by Lausanne-based start-up BestMile, the
distinctive vehicles will be able to navigate roads accurately, identify
obstacles and read road signs.

The project is the result of a two-year joint research project conducted by
BestMile and EPFL to develop the mathematical algorithms that allow
driverless vehicles to deal with different scenarios on the road and be
operated remotely.

The technology "offers a solution to control fleets of autonomous vehicles
in the same way a control tower does in an airport," BestMile said in a
statement.

Following a six-month testing period at EPFL, the company is working with
Nayva, a French specialist in sustainable mobility, to install its
technology in two Navya Arma shuttles that will roam Sion.
[© indiatimes.com  2015 ETAuto.com]



http://www.collisionrepairmag.com/news/17706-autonomous-vehicle-technology-coming-like-a-freight-train
Autonomous Vehicle technology 'coming like a freight train'
Toronto, Ontario -- November 10, 2015 -- Activity in the automated vehicle
(AV) space is accelerating, rapidly. ... Rumours about Apple's electric car
abound.




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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Ed Blackmond via EV]

I own a 2011 Leaf with 45,000 miles.  As a car it is excellent!  As an EV, 
it can't hold a candle to the 1998 Homda EVPlus, I had for 6 years until 
Honda took it away.

The thing I like most about the Leaf is the wireless key, that all cars 
these days have.  This was my first and I will never buy a car with a 
mechanical key again.  The only thing I would like more is doors (at least 
the rear hatch) that didn't require a free hand to open and close.  If I 
walk up to the back of the car with the key in my pocket, the hatch should 
just open.  If I walk away from the car carrying the key with me, the 
doors should lock.

The rearview camera is excallent!  It provides a wide angle view to the 
rear of the car and has a graphic overlay indicating the distance to 
objects in the car's path.  The path curves when the steering wheel is 
turned.  Parallel parking is a dream with this camera.  The only thing I 
would like more is to have a camera on each corner of the front of the car 
with their images displayed on the top left and right corners of the 
display.

Next on my list of things I like is the storage organizer.  It provides 
nice compartments to store things including the 110V portable charging 
station (that I have only used twice).  It also creates a nice flat floor 
for grocery bags and other stuff.  I have several times hauled 2"x4"x8' 
studs.  They fit completely inside the vehicle.

The car seats 5 people nicely and was the daily commute vehicle for my 
lunch group where I used to work.  It also has great head room, although I 
have to duck to see under the rearview mirror when making right turns (it 
doesn't adjust high enough).

As a daily driver, this car is perfect!

As an EV, it pretty much sucks.  Yes, it is convenient to just plug it in 
every night and unplug and drive everyday.  My EVPlus was like that too.  
The instrumentation sucks, especially the guess-o-meter.  Last evening I 
drove for three miles while it told me I had seven miles left.  I started 
out my 68 mile trip with 90 miles on the guess-o-meter.

The EVPlus was much better with its range estimate.  It didn't present a 
single "distance to empty" number.  It presented two numbers: one for how 
the car was being driven at the moment, and one for the best that could be 
achieved under ideal conditions.  This was done as two horizontal bars on 
a chart labeled 0 to 120 miles.  This meter was incredibly intuitive.

I do like the power meter of the Leaf showing instantaneous power being 
used or regenerated.

My capacity is now down to 9 bars from twelve, which I assume means that
the capacity is now 18KWh rather than 24KWh.  Since the car has never let
me use more that 16.5KWh I have noticed no degredation in actual range.  

Since range differs so much with driving conditions, I use charging time
to measure capacity.  It has never taken longer than 5 hours to charge
from the point the gauges indicate completely empty (they shut off) to
100%.  It still takes 5 hours to do a complete recharge.  Since the 
charger is supposed to be 3.3KW, I assume this is 16.5Kwh.

I have had the car in for service five times in a little over four years.  
Nissan wanted me to bring it back in at six months and one year.  I 
recently took it in for a battery check after losing the third bar.  I had 
to replace two of the tires at about 33,000 miles and the other two 
original tires are about worn out.  I also had to replace the windshield.  
Actually, Nissan replaced the first one at my one-year checkup, but it 
broke again soon afterwards.  I got a third party windshield and it has 
been holding up nicely.

Again, I am very happy with my 2011 Leaf.  As a car it is fantastic!  Its 
instrumentation of battery capacity is quite lacking, but not entirely 
useless.  However, I hardly ever look at anything but the speedometer 
during daily driving.  Nothing else is needed since I know the battery has 
the capacity for my typical commute.

I would say if you can live with the range, a 2011 leaf would be your best 
bet.  You can get a top of the line one for less than $10,000.

Ed

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Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[Michael Ross via EV]

For efficiency pasta, beans and greens are the best fuel:

200m flying start 83.13mph
1 mile flying start 78.64
1000km 26.98
1 hour single rider 56.29
6 hour single rider 38.88.mph
24 hour single rider 26.96 (distance 1041km)
multi rider 1 hour  74.51 mph

http://www.ihpva.org/hpvarec3.htm#nom30



On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Willie2 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 11/12/2015 02:23 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>
>>
>> Another (possibly better) way to estimate the EV bike's energy efficiency
>> might be to look at a similar ICE bike's fuel efficiency.
>>
> I used to ride a 750cc bike.  At ~80 mph, fuel consumption was 25-30 mpg.
> At ~50 mph, it could go as high as 50 mpg.  Barely better than a small car.
>
> Much smaller bikes could approach 100mpg but that was mainly due to
> limited speeds.
>
>
>
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>


-- 
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
Thomas A. Edison
<http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html>

A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
*Warren Buffet*

Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone
(919) 600-2892 Cell

michael.e.r...@gmail.com
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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Cruisin via EV]

2015 with the new battery chemistry and cooling modules

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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Ben Goren via EV]

On Nov 12, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Jamie K via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> It would be cool if, when the time comes to replace the batteries (in another 
> 5+ years), Nissan would offer higher range choices for replacement packs.

Nissan is almost going to have to...but, even if they don't, somebody else 
will. The Leaf is the electric version of the Model T Ford. You'll still be 
able to buy parts for a Leaf for many decades to come, maybe even a century, 
and people will prize them the same way we do the Tin Lizzy.

Third-party battery replacements won't be that big of a deal. The volumetric 
efficiency of batteries is increasing at a pretty rapid pace, and there's not 
all that much to the Leaf's battery system. It doesn't make sense today for a 
third-party manufacturer to start making Leaf batteries, but, as soon as 
there's a market for them that Nissan doesn't fill, you can bet that market 
will get filled by somebody else.

...and, in the mean time, places like the Hybrid Auto Center sell Leaf packs 
that, at least on paper, look mighty attractive for DIY conversion projects

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Bob Bath via EV]

Slightly off-topic, but no gen 1 upgrade on the battery pack to gen 2. The 
computers are apparently incompatible. Hack, anyone?

Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat 
fingers on a small device, not cluelessness...

> On Nov 12, 2015, at 4:50 PM, Jamie K via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> I hope you're right, Ben. The LEAF is a top seller for EVs so it seems like 
> there will be a reasonable battery market to serve.
> 
> One more thing for the OP: the 2013 and later LEAFs have a bit more trunk 
> space than 2011/12 LEAFs.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Jamie
> 
> 
>> On 11/12/15 3:26 PM, Ben Goren wrote:
>> On Nov 12, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Jamie K via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> It would be cool if, when the time comes to replace the batteries
>>> (in another 5+ years), Nissan would offer higher range choices for
>>> replacement packs.
>> 
>> Nissan is almost going to have to...but, even if they don't, somebody
>> else will. The Leaf is the electric version of the Model T Ford.
>> You'll still be able to buy parts for a Leaf for many decades to
>> come, maybe even a century, and people will prize them the same way
>> we do the Tin Lizzy.
>> 
>> Third-party battery replacements won't be that big of a deal. The
>> volumetric efficiency of batteries is increasing at a pretty rapid
>> pace, and there's not all that much to the Leaf's battery system. It
>> doesn't make sense today for a third-party manufacturer to start
>> making Leaf batteries, but, as soon as there's a market for them that
>> Nissan doesn't fill, you can bet that market will get filled by
>> somebody else.
>> 
>> ...and, in the mean time, places like the Hybrid Auto Center sell
>> Leaf packs that, at least on paper, look mighty attractive for DIY
>> conversion projects
>> 
>> b&
>> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[harry henderson via EV]

my bike gets about 200 watt per mile

harry Albuquerque, NM current bike:  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179 
current non-bike: http://evalbum.com/1000


On Thu, 11/12/15, EVDL Administrator via EV  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...
 To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
 Date: Thursday, November 12, 2015, 1:23 PM
 
 On 12 Nov 2015 at 11:59,
 Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV wrote:
 
 > Considering the rule of EVs efficiency of
 250Watt-hr per mile on a 2500 lbs
 >
 compact car,  May it apply same in order to calculate the
 energy efficiency of
 > a prototype
 motorcycle?
 
 Maybe, but
 remember that a  bike's aerodynamic qualities are
 significantly 
 worse than a car's. 
 This is because the bike's rider adds quite a bit of 
 wind resistance.
 
 Another (possibly better) way to estimate the
 EV bike's energy efficiency 
 might be to
 look at a similar ICE bike's fuel efficiency.  
 
 Taking the efficiency
 difference into account, an 8kWh lithium battery, 
 fully discharged, provides about the same range
 as a gallon of gasoline.  So 
 if your car
 got 35mpg as an ICEV, it should get around 230Wh/mi as an
 EV.  
 If your motorcycle got 100mpg as an
 ICEV, it should use around 80 Wh/mi as 
 an
 EV.
 
 Another way is to check
 the EV Album for similar vehicles.  For example:
 
 http://evalbum.com/5125
 
 This is a 450lb conversion
 bike with an 84v, 30ah (2520Wh) LiFePO4 battery. 
 The range is listed as 40mi, so that's 63
 Wh/mi.
 
 Or this one:
 
 http://evalbum.com/5128
 
 This has a 768Wh battery and a
 range of 15 miles for an energy usage of 51.2 
 Wh/mi.  However, the top speed is only 35mph,
 so the bikes' relatively poor 
 aerodynamics may not play a very large role
 here.
 
 This bike can do
 60mph:
 
 http://evalbum.com/5114
 
 Even though it weighs only
 176lb, it has a 3990 (!) Wh battery and a range 
 of 50 miles, which works out to about 80
 Wh/mi.  
 
 David Roden -
 Akron, Ohio, USA
 EVDL Administrator
 
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Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[dovepa via EV]

You would need to include the driver.
On a car the difference between 2500 and 2700 is not as significant as 500 and 
700. However I have not converted a motorcycle so I am not even sure the rule 
of thumb applies


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: "Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 
11/12/2015  12:59 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Watt-Hr 
Motorcycle Efficiency... 
 

Considering the rule of EVs efficiency of 250Watt-hr per mile on a 2500 lbs
compact car,  May it apply same in order to calculate the energy efficiency
of a prototype motorcycle?. Please help me / correct me to do the closer
approximations:

 

    Motorcycle total weight (already electric): 500 lbs

 

    That would be aprox 50Watt-hr per mile?

 

    So, having a 48V - 100Ah pack = 4,800Watt-hr pack installed
on that Motorcycle within that weight, it could have an expected range of
(4,800 / 50 ) 96 miles?

 

 

Marco Gaxiola

Energy EV

 

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Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[Alan Arrison via EV]

50Wh per mile is way too optimistic.
A Zero SR, which is a state of the art bike, lists a nominal battery 
capacity of 11.4kWh.
Range on the highway at 55mph is listed as 98 miles. This gives 116Wh 
per mile.


Al

On 11/12/2015 1:59 PM, Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV wrote:
  


Considering the rule of EVs efficiency of 250Watt-hr per mile on a 2500 lbs
compact car,  May it apply same in order to calculate the energy efficiency
of a prototype motorcycle?. Please help me / correct me to do the closer
approximations:

  


 Motorcycle total weight (already electric): 500 lbs

  


 That would be aprox 50Watt-hr per mile?

  


 So, having a 48V - 100Ah pack = 4,800Watt-hr pack installed
on that Motorcycle within that weight, it could have an expected range of
(4,800 / 50 ) 96 miles?

  



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[EVDL] Extra ground wires on Nissan Leaf J1772 inlet & cable?

[Jay Summet via EV]

I've taken the J1772 inlet & cable from my salvaged (2013) Nissan Leaf 
and am planning on connecting it up to the new charger for my S-10 
pickup truck conversion.


It has the standard 5 pins (Hot/Hot/Ground/Proximity/Pilot). The two 
hots connect to two large orange wires. The  Proximity/Pilot connect to 
two small wires that come out of the harness close to the inlet.


However, there are THREE green wires that emerge from the back end of 
the harness. One large, which is connected to the ground pin on the 
J1772 inlet, and two other smaller green wires that are connected to the 
large green wire via a shared ring terminal.  I don't know what these 
two small green wires go to, but it's not any of the pins on the J1772 
inlet!


When I disconnected them from the ring terminal, they do not have 
connectivity to any of the other wires, or to any of the pins on the 
inlet.  As far as I can tell, they just go into the harness heading 
towards the inlet and disappear!


The only thing I can think of is that they are routed near to the HOT 
wires in such a way that if the hot wires are compromised they may short 
out to ground?


Has anybody got a definitive answer to what these two guys are for?
I can post photos of them if you want to see, but I figure that anybody 
who already knows the answer won't need the photos


Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Jay Summet via EV]

I would recommend staying away from the 2011/2012 leafs for several reason:

1) Parts for the 2013 leaf work with 2014/2015 (and probably 2016). 
Between the 2012 and 2013 they upgraded quite a few things (probably 
improving most of them).


For example, they moved from using external chargers (in the trunk area) 
to a combined/integrated charger that is in the power distribution box 
on top of the inverter.  The whole motor/inverter/power distribution box 
is a very nice package on the 2013+ leafs.


I feel that going forward, finding parts and aftermarket accessories for 
the 2013-2016 leafs will be easier than the 2011/2012 models


2) The 2013 leaf batteries are definitely different (at least in the 
physical form factor, and possibly in the chemistry) from the 2011/2012 
model. I suspect that the 2013 batteries will last longer than the 
2011/2012 models.


3) The 2013 leafs are going off-lease now, so you can find a lot of 
deals on used 2013 leafs. The 2011/2012 leafs are probably also cheap, 
but probably not so much more cheap that it's worth looking at.



Once you've decided on a 2013 leaf or better, the one feature I'd look 
for would be the QuickCharge port, as that indicates the upgraded 6.6 kW 
charger, as well as the ability to quick charge if needed.


The SV/SL models with the heat pump and extra features are a nice bonus, 
but I wouldn't pay extra just to get them. (The SatNav is especially not 
worth paying extra for, the one on your cell phone is better.)


Jay

On 11/12/2015 07:50 PM, Jamie K via EV wrote:


I hope you're right, Ben. The LEAF is a top seller for EVs so it seems
like there will be a reasonable battery market to serve.

One more thing for the OP: the 2013 and later LEAFs have a bit more
trunk space than 2011/12 LEAFs.

Cheers,
  -Jamie


On 11/12/15 3:26 PM, Ben Goren wrote:

On Nov 12, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Jamie K via EV 
wrote:


It would be cool if, when the time comes to replace the batteries
(in another 5+ years), Nissan would offer higher range choices for
replacement packs.


Nissan is almost going to have to...but, even if they don't, somebody
else will. The Leaf is the electric version of the Model T Ford.
You'll still be able to buy parts for a Leaf for many decades to
come, maybe even a century, and people will prize them the same way
we do the Tin Lizzy.

Third-party battery replacements won't be that big of a deal. The
volumetric efficiency of batteries is increasing at a pretty rapid
pace, and there's not all that much to the Leaf's battery system. It
doesn't make sense today for a third-party manufacturer to start
making Leaf batteries, but, as soon as there's a market for them that
Nissan doesn't fill, you can bet that market will get filled by
somebody else.

...and, in the mean time, places like the Hybrid Auto Center sell
Leaf packs that, at least on paper, look mighty attractive for DIY
conversion projects

b&



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[EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV]

 

Considering the rule of EVs efficiency of 250Watt-hr per mile on a 2500 lbs
compact car,  May it apply same in order to calculate the energy efficiency
of a prototype motorcycle?. Please help me / correct me to do the closer
approximations:

 

Motorcycle total weight (already electric): 500 lbs

 

That would be aprox 50Watt-hr per mile?

 

So, having a 48V - 100Ah pack = 4,800Watt-hr pack installed
on that Motorcycle within that weight, it could have an expected range of
(4,800 / 50 ) 96 miles?

 

 

Marco Gaxiola

Energy EV

 

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Re: [EVDL] Best year of Leaf to buy used.

[Jamie K via EV]

I hope you're right, Ben. The LEAF is a top seller for EVs so it seems 
like there will be a reasonable battery market to serve.


One more thing for the OP: the 2013 and later LEAFs have a bit more 
trunk space than 2011/12 LEAFs.


Cheers,
 -Jamie


On 11/12/15 3:26 PM, Ben Goren wrote:

On Nov 12, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Jamie K via EV 
wrote:


It would be cool if, when the time comes to replace the batteries
(in another 5+ years), Nissan would offer higher range choices for
replacement packs.


Nissan is almost going to have to...but, even if they don't, somebody
else will. The Leaf is the electric version of the Model T Ford.
You'll still be able to buy parts for a Leaf for many decades to
come, maybe even a century, and people will prize them the same way
we do the Tin Lizzy.

Third-party battery replacements won't be that big of a deal. The
volumetric efficiency of batteries is increasing at a pretty rapid
pace, and there's not all that much to the Leaf's battery system. It
doesn't make sense today for a third-party manufacturer to start
making Leaf batteries, but, as soon as there's a market for them that
Nissan doesn't fill, you can bet that market will get filled by
somebody else.

...and, in the mean time, places like the Hybrid Auto Center sell
Leaf packs that, at least on paper, look mighty attractive for DIY
conversion projects

b&



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