[EVDL] EVLN: Nissan Wants Wireless EVSE to go Mainstream

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://thetechportal.in/2015/11/14/nissan-wants-to-make-wireless-charging-for-electric-cars-mainstream/
Nissan Wants To Make Wireless Charging For Electric Cars Mainstream
[2015/11/14]  Mir Juned Hussain

Electric cars give you a lot more comfort than normal ones as you do not
need to worry about fuel, pollution etc. But still, most of today’s cars
require you to use charging cords and cables which can be one hectic job.
Nissan, and many other automakers, are trying to solve just that issue. The
companies, if they have their way, will soon bring wireless inductive
charging systems and smart charging controls to every electric car out
there.

Nissan is reportedly working on a system that is rated at 7 kW. This system
will be a huge upgrade from the current one from the company which is just
under 3 kW (which the company calls a tease). A company official after at
Nissan Technical Center in Atsugi, Japan in a recent visit after the Tokyo
Motor Show, “3 kW is not enough, so we’re focusing on higher power.”

This new system could be easily used to charge high capacity batteries for
long distance travels like 60 kW packs that could take you about 200 miles
anywhere. This could be a premium option for the Leaf or another vehicle.

Nissan has been working on wireless charging technology for many years now.
We also saw the charging-systems supplier Bosch even provide a
wireless-charging system that can be fitted to your garage floor and either
the Nissan Leaf or Chevrolet Volt.

The new system the automaker is working on is, reportedly, a lot more stable
and flexible. Officials have noted that the vehicle can be positioned up to
4 inches to the left, right, fore, or aft of the ‘bullseye’ for wireless
charging. The system will also work on a medium gap between the charging
pads. This means that we get around 4-6 inches between the inductive pads
which is an upgrade from the just under 4 inches current standard.

Also, the efficiency of the charging system has been increased to 85 percent
which is a significant raise from current standards.

This will be a more standard height for normal passenger vehicles. The
automaker is also working on a system to cover a gap target of over 6
inches, which might be a better match for crossovers.

Apparently, the systems have been carefully designed for EMF and will easily
pass concerns about interference for pacemakers and other devices.

The Japanese automaker is starting fleet tests of the new system this year,
and plans to get other automakers on board with the same standard in the
next few years. Standardization could well take well over a decade for the
company which the project leader aims at. The industry can’t have another
CHAdeMO and Combo (the two standards for Level 3 fast-charging), the project
leader and others argue.
[© thetechportal.in]
...
https://lifeboat.com/blog/2015/11/nissan-wants-to-bring-wireless-charging-technology-to-electric-cars
Nissan wants to bring wireless charging technology to electric cars
Nov 14, 2015  Electric car owners get to enjoy a certain level of pride in
saying that they never have to deal with gas stations and dirty fuel-filler
nozzles. Most of those owners ...
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100946_electric-cars-sans-cords-nissan-readying-higher-power-inductive-charging
Electric Cars Sans Cords: Nissan Readying Higher-Power Inductive Charging
Nov 13, 2015




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[EVDL] EVLN: i3 EV> The vehicle that changed BMW

[brucedp5 via EV]

'Strange-looking i3 doesn’t seem very BMW-y'

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/11/12/the-bmw-i3-the-car-that-changed-bmw/
The BMW i3: The car that changed BMW
November 12th, 2015  Nico DeMattia

[image  
http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014-bmw-i3-front-three-quarter-in-orange-750x500.jpg
The BMW i3: The car that changed BMW

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/bmw-i3-fluid-black.jpg

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014-BMW-i3-Driver-Cabin.jpg

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/2016-bmw-7-series-lightweight-cfrp-02.jpg
BMW 7 Series’ Carbon Core technology

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/bmw-i3-fluid-black-color.jpg
]

Every once in a while, an automaker creates a car that forever changes the
brand. It doesn’t happen often, but when it does, it becomes a focal point
for the brand’s history. BMW has had a couple of these cars in its past. The
original BMW 2002 forever changed BMW, as it created a formula for a car
that the Bavarian brand would forever replicate. The original E30 M3 was
another car that changed BMW forever, as it put BMW on the map in the world
of performance and precision. The next car to change BMW wouldn’t come until
nearly three decades later — the BMW i3.

The i3 is a peculiar BMW, in that at first glance, it doesn’t seem very
BMW-y. It’s a strange-looking hatchback that runs on pure electricity and
isn’t very fast. However, if you dig deeper into the car and actually drive
it, you’d realize that not only is it a BMW through and through, but it’s
the future of BMW. It’s where BMW is headed.

Step into the i3 and you’re greeted by a cabin that looks like nothing else
from the Bavarians. It’s open and airy, unlike the sort of driver-focused
cockpits you’re used to from BMW. However, once you sink into the seat, it
becomes instantly comfortable and familiar. It’s a BMW, just one for a
different time. Everything is brilliantly laid out and it feels like
something from the future. That’s what a good company does, it gives you
things that you never knew you wanted and that’s what you get in the i3, an
experience that you didn’t know you wanted but now suddenly do.

Start the i3 and you aren’y greeted with the throaty growl of a
straight-six, but silence instead. It’s an odd feeling to not have the BMW
rumbling to life beneath you, but for some reason it still feels alive. One
twist of the, surprisingly weighty, steering wheel and you realize that this
car was indeed built by the same company that builds the M3. It’s meaty and
accurate, like BMWs should be but unlike virtually every other electric car.
The chassis responds to your inputs with alacrity and its rear-drive nature
allow it to be every bit as nimble as the BMW sports cars you’re used to.
Despite its futuristic feel, the i3 still feels at home to BMW owners.

The aforementioned chassis is responsive for a reason and has much to do
with the i3’s nimble readiness. Built out of an ingenious use Carbon Fiber
Reinforced Plastic, the chassis is basically one piece. The CFRP passenger
cell is one single unit, much like a Formula One car, and is bolted to
aluminum subframes, as if it were a carbon fiber skateboard. This allows the
i3 to be incredible light, rigid and dynamic, It’s a formula that works so
well that it’s ideas are being implemented into all future BMWs via Carbon
Core technology. the implementation is slow, admittedly, due to cost
reasons, but there will be a time when all future BMWs use a similar chassis
setup.

But it isn’t just the i3’s chassis that is changing BMW, it’s the brilliant
eDrive powertrain. While the i3’s powertrain might sound simple, being just
an electric motor and a battery, the lessons learned from the i3 [EV], and
it’s bigger i8 [pih] brother, are being utilized in future BMW vehicles ...

Even the BMW i3’s faults teach BMW things about what the future needs to be.
Some critics, mostly Tesla fans, cry about the i3’s lack of range and the
fact that BMW is too focused on hybrids when it should be more concerned
with pure EV and battery technology. BMW is focused on those things ... 

The eDrive powertrain is the walking stage, that intermediate step, and we
have the i3 to thank for BMW learning that lesson.

The i3 is the third BMW in the brand’s storied history to change the BMW for
the future. The 2002, the E30 M3 and now the i3. That’s not bad company to
be in.
[© bmwblog.com]



http://insideevs.com/since-launch-bmw-i3-worlds-3-best-selling-electric-car/
Since Its Launch, BMW i3 Is World's #3 Best-Selling Electric Car*
[2015/11/13]  Since Its Launch, BMW i3 Is World's #3 Best-Selling Electric
Car*. 14 mins ... According to BMW, the i3 has become the third best-selling
electric car worldwide.
...
http://www.thequint.com/torque/2015/11/13/the-once-futuristic-bmw-i3-completes-2-years-but-is-it-old
The Once 'Futuristic' BMW i3 Completes 2 Years, But Is It Old?
[2015/11/13]  After two years of its launch, the world of cars – once
dominated 

[EVDL] EVLN: Leaf electric vehicle pooled purchases save$

[brucedp5 via EV]

% Like a group-buy of batteries which reduces per unit costs %

http://www.greenbiz.com/article/what-electric-vehicles-can-learn-solar
What electric vehicles can learn from solar
November 12, 2015  Edward J. Klock,Tyeler Matsuo

[image  
http://www.greenbiz.com/sites/default/files/styles/gbz_article_primary_breakpoints_kalapicture_screen-xs_2x/public/images/articles/featured/shutterstock_nissan_leaf_joel_420.jpg?itok=l7VhchVE
A Colorado pilot project is underway offering pooled purchases of Nissan
Leaf electric vehicles
]

Nissan Leaf electric vehicle pooled purchases

Across the country and around the world, unsubsidized solar energy is
reaching cost parity with fossil fuels. The same cannot (yet) be said for
electric vehicles when compared to gasoline-burning models.

While unsubsidized EVs have not reached cost parity with gasoline vehicles
for the average driver, sales are surging in three Colorado counties with
the help of a tactic that helped make residential solar more affordable to
the mass market.

Inspired by the success of pooled purchasing programs for residential
rooftop solar (sometimes called "solarize" campaigns), Boulder County
invited Adams and Denver counties to team up with Vote Solar — a nonprofit
advocacy organization that administers programs to facilitate residential
solar group purchases — to create Solar Benefits Colorado.

The idea: Engage EV manufacturers and dealers to see if the same rationale
could be applied to pooled purchases of EVs. 

It turns out that the logic can be transferable. Customers can take
advantage of a discount up to $8,600 on a 2015 Nissan Leaf with Quick Charge
Package and zero-percent financing for up to 72 months. The offer was
originally through Oct. 31 and extended through the end of the year. 

This discount, co-developed by the counties, Nissan North America and
Boulder Nissan, brings the entry-level Leaf S down to $23,461 from $31,810
before the federal ($7,500) and state (PDF) (~$5,000) tax credits for which
the Leaf also qualifies.

This pricing is lower than Kelley Blue Book’s estimated fair purchase price
of $28,255, meaning the deal is not only pre-negotiated, but far below what
customers could get by haggling. This deal doesn’t involve tax credits,
subsidies, lobbying, handouts or regulation. It just involves pure business
sense for consumers, dealerships and EV manufacturers alike.

The power of community buying
While EVs enjoy lower operating and maintenance costs than their gas-powered
counterparts, their higher upfront cost can be a barrier to adoption —
either through sticker shock or simply because customers lack the required
initial capital.

There are already measures to address this barrier at the federal and state
level in the form of tax breaks. However, these incentives weren’t driving
EV adoption fast enough for these three communities. Boulder County, for
example, has a goal to achieve an 80-percent reduction in greenhouse gas
emissions from the transportation sector by 2050.

Part of the problem is that tax credits must be claimed at tax time, the
spring following the EV purchase. But incentives available at the time of
purchase have a far greater impact on EV sales. With the upfront discount,
monthly payments are lower, helping to make the Leaf available to more
consumers.

These economics evidently create a compelling incentive to go electric. In
just two months, Boulder Nissan sold over 150 Leafs through the program,
with more than 300 additional people in the pipeline. To put that in
perspective, Boulder Nissan typically sells 15-to-20 Leafs per month (~10
percent of total sales), meaning that its Leaf sales have increased almost
300 percent during the program.

This volume of sales also highlights the benefits of pooled purchasing for
Nissan corporate and the Boulder Nissan dealership — the corporate partners
for this program. In our age of choices and competition, it’s now about
creating marketing economies of scale.

While Nissan sacrifices some revenue by providing the discount, it’s saving
on customer acquisition fees, marketing and even the transaction costs (and
potential customer losses) spent negotiating vehicle prices with prospective
customers. This marketing doesn’t stop when the deal expires, either. Thanks
to the program, there are now 150 new Colorado Leaf owners and counting,
spreading the word and dispelling public misconceptions about EVs. That is
more powerful than any marketing campaign.

Nissan also benefits from the special type of publicity delivered through
the program — community-based social marketing. Instead of Nissan itself
promoting the deal, the program is promoted through a network of
municipalities, universities, large employers and the newest Leaf converts.

Sending the message through a coalition of trustworthy sources — rather than
from the company that stands to benefit from the sales — brings intrinsic
integrity to the deal. Not to mention that packaging the Nissan Leaf
alongside 

[EVDL] Gene Stopp seeking contact w/ Mike Chancey> recover EValbum password

[brucedp5 via EV]

[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Hello-again-tp4678735.html
]

I did not see Gene's email address when I received his evdl.org post, else I
would have forwarded it on to Mike myself. I'll assume Gene wants access to
his EValbum listing so it can be updated, which would help sell the EV.

Methods to contact Mike:
Use EValbum's contact page
http://evalbum.com/contact

Mike has his email address on his EValbum listing:
http://evalbum.com/106

And Mike's maeaa.org EAA Chapter contact detail is on:
http://www.electricauto.org/?page=chapters#MISSOURI


If referencing to the old out-of-date EValbum listing (page)
http://www.evalbum.com/3915
 does not help Gene sell the VW Bug EV conversion (too many differences to
be a helpful tool), Gene could just create another free EValbum listing with
the updated detail, and reference-to that listing instead in Gene's ads.

I suggest a couple of places to sell the EV on:
http://www.evtradinpost.com/
 and also create an ebay ad, plus a local craigslist ad.

It will take some time to sell the EV, so do not be in a frustrated hurry.
Instead have a routine to maintain your advertising feelers to let the
public know the EV is available (this saves the amount of time you spend).
Also, have a page that you can place faq (potential customer Questions and
Answers) to minimize having answer the same questions repeatedly.

This method paid off well when I sold the Escort EV I had brought to keep in
the SF bay area (I did not need two EVs, but the Escort was a really nice
professional conversion that I wanted to stay here), see
http://brucedp.150m.com/escort/




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http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

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Re: [EVDL] A math formula can model li-ion pack aging, Pyrite pack

[Jukka Järvinen via EV]

The elevated temperature for Li-ion performance was known method at NEDRA
PIR and Wayland invitationals like 10 yrs back. I was there and I kept
telling this what we saw in our cell tests back then. Higher death rate
too. NMC cells from TS at that time could be preheated with high current
charging just before peak load as it drove more li-ions in right places as
additional effect. This also killed the cell in a way that you needed to
elevate the temperature more on every cycle to get same power out. At
normal temperature the cell had become "bad cell" after few cycles. We
could now design and make 100C peak cells for dragsters with bi-polar
structure and solid stacking. The lessons learned keep pushing the horizon
further which we recognize as our technological limit. We are living truly
exciting times. -Jukka


2015-11-18 14:17 GMT+02:00 Paul Dove via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>:

> I was speaking of performance
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Nov 17, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> >
> > Michael Ross via EV wrote:
> >> Years ago, before improvements in testing, that may have been applied to
> >> "work better," but definitely, high temps are not a recipe for "works
> >> longer."
> >
> > This is true for *all* battery chemistries, as far as I know. Higher
> temperatures always increase their amphour capacity (and shorten their
> life).
> >
> > --
> > Do the thing that needs to be done, even if no one else yet notices
> > that it needs doing. -- anonymous
> > --
> > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
> ___
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>
>
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[EVDL] EVLN: MTA electric buses hit the streets on TN Music City Circuit

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/2015/11/13/mta-electric-buses-hit-streets-music-city-circuit/75731616/
MTA electric buses hit the streets on Music City Circuit
November 13, 2015  Jen Todd

[image   / The Tennessean
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/f6971d504a6d894cb7944de3d383c26c5c6bb869/c=0-0-533-401=x404=534x401/local/-/media/2015/11/13/Nashville/Nashville/635830331746611528-circuit.jpg
MTA now has nine electric buses and 50 operators for them
]

Nashville bus drivers are now driving electric vehicles.

Approximately 50 bus operators have been trained to drive the nine
zero-emission buses on the Music City Circuit's blue and green routes, which
transport passengers to the Bicentennial Mall and Gulch areas.

The buses are five times more fuel efficient than traditional diesel buses
and run much quieter, according to the manufacturer, Proterra. With the
transition to electric, Nashville Metro Transit Authority expects to save
$75,092 annually.

Chargers are currently at Riverfront Station, and a second station is
expected to be built near Bicentennial Mall. The Fast FillTM charging system
can fully charge the vehicle in less than 10 minutes, and one charge can
take the bus 26 miles.

Each bus can hold 42 passengers, with 27 seated.

For more information about Nashville MTA, visit www.nashvillemta.org.
[© tennessean.com]



http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/himachal/govt-seeks-10-eco-friendly-electric-buses/157880.html
Govt.in seeks 10 eco-friendly electric buses
Nov 14 2015  The company has given its consent to provide these electric
vehicles for a 15 days trial insecond week of December. The routes chosen
for the trial run include ...




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{brucedp.150m.com}

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[EVDL] $75K craigslist-ad selling a Starwars-shaped ETV 72VDC EV

[brucedp5 via EV]

% 72VDC prestolite emotor, seven 12v PbSO4 deep-cycle batteries (one is the
12V aux battery), two 300W wind turbines charge the 12V aux battery, based
on a Chevy Aveo ice chassis %

http://news.boldride.com/2015/11/spaceship-electric-car-craigslist/93854/
Spaceship-Like ETV Electric Car Can Be Yours For $75K
13 November 2015  Nicole Wakelin

[images  
http://news.cdn.boldride.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/12030406/VSP-Electric-Doors-Open.jpg
VSP Electric Doors Open

http://news.cdn.boldride.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/12030408/VSP-Electric-Profile.jpg
VSP Electric Profile

http://news.cdn.boldride.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/12030410/VSP-Electric-Rear.jpg
VSP Electric Rear
]

It looks like some modded version of Luke Skywalker’s landspeeder, but this
car is not from a galaxy far, far away. This futuristic electric car is
real, and sadly it does have wheels that are hidden beneath the body so it
rolls along the pavement just like a normal car. That’s about the only
normal thing about this car.

This ETV [
http://news.boldride.com/2014/09/amazing-etv-space-ship-kit-car-sells-for-71000/58051/
], which stands for Extra-Terrestrial Vehicle, was made by Mike Vetter of
Micco, Florida. According to Autoblog [
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/29/its-friday-have-you-ever-considered-an-etv-electric-landspeede/
], at its core is a 2006 Chevrolet Aveo chassis. It uses a MiMod EV
monitoring and control system which manages the battery and a pneumatic body
lift and lowering system.

There’s a dashboard touchscreen, gullwing doors, and two 300-watt wind
turbines that aren’t there solely for their good lucks. These are used to
recharge the battery that runs the computer, lights, and controls. Let’s see
someone do this to a Prius.

The ETV is currently for sale on Craigslist for a tidy $75K so it doesn’t
come cheap. A little paint and you could turn this into a perfectly
serviceable landspeeder for driving to the Star Wars opening next month.
[© boldride.com]



http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/cto/5306445160.html
2014 VSP ELECTRIC CAR - $75000

[images
http://images.craigslist.org/00c0c_6i0atzvPsyV_600x450.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/00s0s_cNQ4geNFKMJ_600x450.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/00808_i5ejYRV3bNq_600x450.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/00b0b_6Zffj2lkkxY_600x450.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/00808_4m0T3J6HtwD_600x450.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/00n0n_a1YJMWI6jNR_600x450.jpg
]

condition: like new
fuel: electric
paint color: black
title status: clean
transmission: manual

FOR SALE OR TRADE
2014 VSP electric car,great movie car or promotional vehicle,72vseries wound
prestolite drive motor,7 new vsp 12v 230ah sealed lead acid maintenance free
batterys,MIMOD EV monitoring and control system,front and rear air
ride,gullwing doors,2 300watt windturbines that recharge the battery that
runs the computer lights and controls.ph or txt 705-257-1280 
[© craigslist]




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Re: [EVDL] A math formula can model li-ion pack aging, Pyrite pack

[Paul Dove via EV]

I was speaking of performance

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 17, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> 
> Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>> Years ago, before improvements in testing, that may have been applied to
>> "work better," but definitely, high temps are not a recipe for "works
>> longer."
> 
> This is true for *all* battery chemistries, as far as I know. Higher 
> temperatures always increase their amphour capacity (and shorten their life).
> 
> -- 
> Do the thing that needs to be done, even if no one else yet notices
> that it needs doing. -- anonymous
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] A math formula can model li-ion pack aging, Pyrite pack

[tomw via EV]

/"According to the researchers, this new simple aging formula takes into
account only the factors shown to most influence lithium-ion battery aging
by affecting growth of the SEI layer, which include state of charge, how
often the battery charges/discharges completely, operating temperature, and
current."/

The battery companies have for years understood that electrolyte additives
make a huge difference in reactions at the SEI layer, strongly effecting
lifecyles, especially at higher temperatures and voltages (remember the Dahn
video where he showed data on this, with best performers being from battery
companies using propreietary additives).

Impossible to tell from the article if this "formula" explains much of
anything.  It may simply describe behaviour in terms of some external
variables such as temperature and current as the article seems to indicate. 
This could be based on a fit to data on a particular chemistry, or they may
have derived it from more basic principles.  In the former case it would not
say anything about the molecular mechanisms that give rise to such effects,
and would only be fairly predictive of performance for the cell chemistry
data to which it was fit.  Different additives would give different results,
and it would have no power in predicting these. Would be nice to know how
the equations were derived.

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/A-math-formula-can-model-li-ion-pack-aging-Pyrite-pack-tp4678722p4678762.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Leaf electric vehicle pooled purchases save$

[Ben Goren via EV]

On Nov 18, 2015, at 4:39 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> This discount, co-developed by the counties, Nissan North America and
> Boulder Nissan, brings the entry-level Leaf S down to $23,461 from $31,810
> before the federal ($7,500) and state (PDF) (~$5,000) tax credits for which
> the Leaf also qualifies.

Am I reading this right? If you're in Colorado, you can buy a brand-new Leaf 
for under $11,000?

If so...that is simply insane. Never mind all the electric stuff; the Leaf is a 
great _car,_ and already a bargain at twice that price. That's the sort of 
price that the only excuse for new car buyers to go with something else would 
be an actual inability to make the Leaf work with lifestyle needs -- as in, you 
really do need to haul four tons of gravel every other week, or you actually do 
drive 300 miles / day, and there's no way to press some other car into that 
service while the Leaf does all the daily driving.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Leaf electric vehicle pooled purchases save$

[dovepa via EV]

Yes they are all over Georgia as well since they had a 4500 credit there.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Ben Goren via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 11/18/2015  8:03 AM  
(GMT-06:00) To: brucedp5 <bruce...@operamail.com>, Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Leaf electric vehicle pooled 
purchases save$ 
On Nov 18, 2015, at 4:39 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> This discount, co-developed by the counties, Nissan North America and
> Boulder Nissan, brings the entry-level Leaf S down to $23,461 from $31,810
> before the federal ($7,500) and state (PDF) (~$5,000) tax credits for which
> the Leaf also qualifies.

Am I reading this right? If you're in Colorado, you can buy a brand-new Leaf 
for under $11,000?

If so...that is simply insane. Never mind all the electric stuff; the Leaf is a 
great _car,_ and already a bargain at twice that price. That's the sort of 
price that the only excuse for new car buyers to go with something else would 
be an actual inability to make the Leaf work with lifestyle needs -- as in, you 
really do need to haul four tons of gravel every other week, or you actually do 
drive 300 miles / day, and there's no way to press some other car into that 
service while the Leaf does all the daily driving.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] A math formula can model li-ion pack aging, Pyrite pack

[dovepa via EV]

Thanks that's very interesting. I believe racing is what pushed ice vehicles as 
well


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Jukka Järvinen <akkuju...@akkujukka.fi> Date: 11/18/2015  7:01 AM 
 (GMT-06:00) To: Paul Dove <dov...@bellsouth.net>, Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Lee Hart <leeah...@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: 
[EVDL] A math formula can model li-ion pack aging, Pyrite pack 
The elevated temperature for Li-ion performance was known method at NEDRA PIR 
and Wayland invitationals like 10 yrs back. I was there and I kept telling this 
what we saw in our cell tests back then. Higher death rate too. NMC cells from 
TS at that time could be preheated with high current charging just before peak 
load as it drove more li-ions in right places as additional effect. This also 
killed the cell in a way that you needed to elevate the temperature more on 
every cycle to get same power out. At normal temperature the cell had become 
"bad cell" after few cycles. We could now design and make 100C peak cells for 
dragsters with bi-polar structure and solid stacking. The lessons learned keep 
pushing the horizon further which we recognize as our technological limit. We 
are living truly exciting times. -Jukka  
2015-11-18 14:17 GMT+02:00 Paul Dove via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>:
I was speaking of performance



Sent from my iPad



> On Nov 17, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

>

> Michael Ross via EV wrote:

>> Years ago, before improvements in testing, that may have been applied to

>> "work better," but definitely, high temps are not a recipe for "works

>> longer."

>

> This is true for *all* battery chemistries, as far as I know. Higher 
> temperatures always increase their amphour capacity (and shorten their life).

>

> --

> Do the thing that needs to be done, even if no one else yet notices

> that it needs doing. -- anonymous

> --

> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

> ___

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> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/

> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

>

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Re: [EVDL] A math formula can model li-ion pack aging, Pyrite pack

[paul dove via EV]

In the two papers I have by these men they are using LiFEPO4 cells.If you want 
a copy let me know.
The latest is dated October 2015 Here is the abstract.
ABSTRACT
This study investigates the effects of elevated temperature on
commercially available high power graphite/LiFePO4 cells using
a temperature dependent, electrolyte enhanced, single particle
model (ESPM-T) coupled with a Solid Electrolyte Interphase
(SEI) layer growth aging model. The ESPM-T is capable of simulating
up to 25C and 10 sec charge-discharge pulses within a 35-
65% SOC window and 25oC to 40oC temperature range with less
than 1% voltage error, so it is suitable for hybrid electric vehicle
(HEV) applications. The aging model is experimentally validated
with an aggressive HEV cycle running for 4 months with
less than 1% error. Instead of defining battery End of Life (EOL)
as an arbitrary percent of capacity loss, we use the cycle number
when the battery voltage hits 3.6V/2V (maximum/minimum)
voltage limits. This is the practical limit of operation without
reduced performance. Simulations show that operating cells at
35oC increases their life by 45% compared to room temperature
operation. If the cell temperature is increased stepwise, then battery
life is increased 85% more with a 50oC cell temperature at
EOL. Battery initial size can be reduced by 24% using this temperature
set-point strategy.

  From: tomw via EV 
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org 
 Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2015 8:25 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] A math formula can model li-ion pack aging, Pyrite pack
   
/"According to the researchers, this new simple aging formula takes into
account only the factors shown to most influence lithium-ion battery aging
by affecting growth of the SEI layer, which include state of charge, how
often the battery charges/discharges completely, operating temperature, and
current."/

The battery companies have for years understood that electrolyte additives
make a huge difference in reactions at the SEI layer, strongly effecting
lifecyles, especially at higher temperatures and voltages (remember the Dahn
video where he showed data on this, with best performers being from battery
companies using propreietary additives).

Impossible to tell from the article if this "formula" explains much of
anything.  It may simply describe behaviour in terms of some external
variables such as temperature and current as the article seems to indicate. 
This could be based on a fit to data on a particular chemistry, or they may
have derived it from more basic principles.  In the former case it would not
say anything about the molecular mechanisms that give rise to such effects,
and would only be fairly predictive of performance for the cell chemistry
data to which it was fit.  Different additives would give different results,
and it would have no power in predicting these. Would be nice to know how
the equations were derived.

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/A-math-formula-can-model-li-ion-pack-aging-Pyrite-pack-tp4678722p4678762.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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