[EVDL] Oops. A123 Cells are delicate it seems

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

My first foray into lithium has had a few snags. It seems it is very easy to 
scratch the skin of the cells thus a possible short within a cell. This was by 
close encounters with scissors and knives. Cutting the nickel connectors and 
plastic membranes of a 48v pack. I am trying to get 20 pairs for a 5ah 60v 
battery. I will also band saw the pack cover and use that as a cover and 
holder. Can I use liquid insulator or tape to repair the scratches? Lawrence 
Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 93, Issue 42

[Offgrid Systems via EV]

Well the Solaredge HD wave (and the previous model) use a fixed input 
voltage at a nominal 380VDC, with a 480VDC max. There is no MPPT, since 
that is done off-board in their optimizers, that sit behind the PV 
modules. So you might be able to connect a nominal 380V battery pack to 
the solar and have it act normally. But one would have to actually *try* 
it...


They are pretty cheap (older version)*https://preview.tinyurl.com/yy4l65fs*

*Even the HD wave is not too bad at 6kW power 
level...https://www.ebay.com/itm/SolarEdge-SE6000H-US000NNU2-HD-Wave-6kW-240V-TL-Inverter/353151346924?hash=item523975e8ec:g:9HIAAOSwWHtfHgFa*


*Please note that the Solaredge has an integrated DC disconnect rated 
for PV, not battery. Also for operating 120/240V split phase loads you 
need their balancing transformer...

*

t

On 7/30/2020 1:08 PM, ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org wrote:

I'll be interested once it's proven that you can use a battery pack for the PV 
input, AND not have a 48V battery pack attached.


--
Kind regards,

Tim Economu
Offgrid Systems LLC
7664 Hellman Road
Clinton, Wa 98236

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[EVDL] Kandi $13k K23 &$22.5k K27 .cn EVs 4sale in Garland-TX

[evln via EV]

https://dallasinnovates.com/kandi-launches-the-most-affordable-electric-cars-in-the-u-s-in-dallas/
Kandi Brings the ‘Most Affordable’ Electric Cars in the U.S. to Dallas-Fort
Worth
JUL 30, 2020 ... A virtual event will kick off the launch of two models—the
K23 and K27. The price tag for its new compact EV starts at about $13,000
after incentives, Garland-based Kandi America ... Launching first in
Dallas-Fort Worth, Kandi is bringing the EVs it calls “the most affordable”
... The Chinese electric vehicle maker acquired Garland-based SC Autosports
in 2018 to distribute its EVs in the U.S. ... place a $100 deposit down for
one of the new cars ... available ... by year end ...
https://s24806.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/kandi-scautosports-008-1536x1024.jpg
...
https://dallasinnovates.com/garlands-sc-autosports-unveils-two-ev-prototypes/
...
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/autos/2020/07/30/a-chinese-electric-automaker-is-setting-up-its-us-headquarters-in-garland-can-it-make-a-mark-in-truck-loving-texas/
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kandi+America
...
https://www.kandiamerica.com/contact/
USA Headquarters  3101 W Miller Rd, Garland, TX 75041
General Questions  info @kandiamerica.com
Sales Department  866-GO-KANDI or 866-465-2634
Phone: 972-271-0888  Email: sales @kandiamerica.com
...
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200729005834/en/Kandi-Brings-America%E2%80%99s-Affordable-Electric-Vehicles-Market
...
https://www.drivekandi.com/
 ... Register for the exclusive virtual launch event to learn more about the
next generation of accessible EVs! 
August 18, 10 a.m. CST ...
...
https://www.kandiamerica.com/electric-vehicle/K27
 $13k k27 r-wtlp:100mi ts:64mph
...
https://www.kandiamerica.com/electric-vehicle/K23
 $22.5k k23 r-wtlp:188mi ts:70mph
... (dated)
https://dallasinnovates.com/garlands-sc-autosports-unveils-two-ev-prototypes/


+ (Training Ford Dealerships about Mach-E EVs)
https://evbite.com/leaked-ford-mustang-mach-e-dealership-training/
Leaked: Ford Mustang Mach-E Dealership Training
JUL 27, 2020 ... Ford's latest and greatest vehicle, the all-electric
Mustang Mach-E is ... With it inching ever so closer, fans of the automaker
and their newly found EV path are ...
https://evbite.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2021-Ford-Mustang-Mach-E-4-1170x780.jpg




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
 http://www.evdl.org/archive/
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Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging strategies

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I can tell you that the power needs ARE a concern.

The CEO of one trucking company that uses alternative fueled trucks of varying 
technologies, blanched when told that two Tesla trucks would require 2MW for 
charging, when his entire site had capacity for only 4 MW.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Jul 30, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> Well, the article imprecisely referred to "high speed chargers." Do you 
> think they are concerned by everyone using level 2 at the same time ?
> 
> Second, the article mentions a cul-de-sac as an example case. I think it 
> matters a lot where people charge. If the L3 chargers are in a residential 
> setting, they will put more load on a system already near max during peak 
> periods. Commercial already has much higher capacity and L3 chargers probably 
> don't add so much additional load. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Peri
> 
> << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? 
> https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: e...@vanderwal.us
> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> 
> Sent: 30-Jul-20 11:57:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging 
> strategies
> 
>>> First, why do utilities think people will install level 3 chargers ? A
>>> small percentage of people really do drive that much every day,
>> 
>> I think the utilities are expecting that people will use Public level 3 
>> chargers during the day and private level 2 at night.
>> I.e. for the majority of people, their vehicles are not home during peak 
>> solar, and perhaps also not home during the early evenings.
>> 
>> From the utlities point of view, it doesn't matter where they charge, only 
>> that they are charging.
> 
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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Haudy Kazemi via EV]

Willie, thanks for the details. I suggest trying again but this time, in
addition to the true east/west orientation, also put them 90 degrees apart
from each other at their peaks. In other words, each should be at 45 degree
angles to the ground. This will limit total illumination as the sun cannot
shine squarely on two sides at once. It should also flatten the daily power
curve from approximately 10a to 4p (varies by day length). Some solar
energy will still be left uncaptured around noon due inverter clipping on
bright days, but the inverter will run at full capacity longer. Enphase has
a whitepaper discussing DC:AC ratios.

Thinly overcast days may also produce better than you may first guess. The
high DC/AC ratio can partially compensate for even, but lower intensity
light. PV cells with low shunt resistance do better in low light.

https://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/solar-cell-operation/shunt-resistance
https://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/solar-cell-operation/impact-of-both-series-and-shunt-resistance


Bob, I do not believe diode isolation is needed, at least if one is using
exactly 2 parallel strings made up of commercial modules which come with
built-in bypass diodes. If using more than 2 parallel strings, things are
different. Also, designs with >2 parallel strings will definitely need
per-string fusing to prevent current from 2 good strings from overloading
the wires of a failed 3rd string if that 3rd string somehow shorts out the
other 2.

Last, user bcroe from the solarpaneltalk.com forum website has an east/west
array:
https://s93.photobucket.com/user/bcroe/library/ENERGY%2520CONSERVATION/East%2520West%2520Facing%2520Solar%2520Array#
!


On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 09:26 Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> True, south always better.  But the point is that then you need an inverter
> with twice the capacity..
> The topic being discussed is being able to share an inverter with
> additional panels facing a different direction.
>
> Key points:  1) when not facing due south, panels should be less tilted
> since the sun rises in the NE and sets in the NW, having flatter panels
> gets more sun time in the middle of the day.
> 2) Even if both panels are quite illuminated at the same time, the MPPT
> inverter will not be overloaded.  It will always adjust to max power and no
> more.  SO having some overlap is OK.
> 3) In my case, my SE panels begin to be shaded by 2 PM, so I installed
> another set of panels facing SW that begin to be unshaded about the same
> time,
> 4) You must parallel them with diode isolation.
>
> Back to #1, remember that even FLAT panels will produce 80% annual totals
> of the ideal south panels.  They are terrible in the winter but make up for
> it with the double high-sun in the summer.  Though do not do it, they will
> collect dust and cant wash off in the rain.  Im just makiong the point that
> the only placew where you tilt to latitude is due south.  Other directions,
> less tilt is better.
>
> Bob
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:00 AM Peter VanDerWal via EV  >
> wrote:
>
> > FWIW I did some simulations using PVWatts 2 a while back to see if it
> made
> > sense to have a panel facing east and another facing west, like you
> > describe(tilted to match latitude).  I was hoping this would result in a
> > flatter power output through the day.  Turned out that in almost all
> cases
> > it was better off to have both panels facing south(tilted to match
> > latitude).
> > More power across the whole day and obviously more daily energy produced.
> >
> > July 29, 2020 6:55 PM, "Willie via EV"  wrote:
> > > Yes. With a vertical angle between of 30-40 deg; a pair of panels make
> a
> > near equilateral triangle
> > > with the ground. I'm wondering if I might see better results by
> reducing
> > that angle between panels.
> > >
>
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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Willie via EV]

On 7/30/20 2:45 PM, Haudy Kazemi via EV wrote:

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 12:51 Willie via EV  wrote:




On 7/30/20 9:29 AM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

On Thu Jul 30 09:49:15 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:

On 7/30/20 7:03 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:

Yes, that looks promising..  How much is the 3 or 5kw model?




https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-3kW-24V-Any-Grid-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverer-p/phocos-psw-h-3kw-230-24v.htm




https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-Any-Grid-5kW-48V-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverter-p/phocos-psw-h-5kw-230-48v.htm


I'll be interested once it's proven that you can use a battery pack for

the PV input, AND not have a 48V battery pack attached.

I'd look at the Delta first.  It's cheaper and immediately available.
In addition, there is a great deal of uncertainty as to exactly what it
wants for a battery; it was designed for a not available Tesla battery.

The recent use has been just as a straightforward grid tie inverter.
The seller has started advertising that it will produce grid down PV
power without a battery.  I've tested just a little but not yet had
success.



I am not convinced from a skim through the
SolarCity H6 manual that this inverter can supply AC output power when
there is no grid, and simultaneously no battery. Only a few inverters can
pull off that balancing act. SMA has one that does it via the Secure Power
Supply feature, and Enphase's IQ8 is supposed to be another.

Most likely the inverter can operate without a battery if it is dumping
power on the grid. Adding the battery gives the inverter a place to source
and dump power that at the time it is needed, that the solar cannot
provide, and the loads cannot use.


I am also not convinced.  A recent test failed.  I will test more but I 
am going on the word of the seller who claims it is so.  However, the 
seller has been silent on the details of his experiments.


The SMA, I think, is of little use.  Only ~1500 watts at 120vac.

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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[paul dove via EV]

 Back the when GE and Westinghouse were battling AC didn’t mean three-phase AC. 
Two-phase, where the phases were 90 degrees apart, was an easier system to 
analyze and generate. The Westinghouse generators at Niagara Falls, for 
example, produced two-phase. I doubt you will find many Two Phase service 
nowadays though.

On Thursday, July 30, 2020, 12:43:19 PM CDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 30 Jul 2020 at 10:58, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

> no mention of 240 VAC two phase?

I'm not an EE, but I don't think that such a thing exists anywhere, at least 
not as commercial power.  The US does have 240v split phase, but that's 
single phase.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
    The only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world
    of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.

                      -- Richard Nixon, "Real Peace"(1983)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Haudy Kazemi via EV]

lf out before it
found the maximum power point. Makes sense to me it should just stay there
sucking 6000 Watts out of the Prius happily. But then there's that dang arc
fault shut down. Can't I just take a pair of pliers to the arc fault
detection circuit and break it off the board?"


SolarCity H6 Manual:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1INHtfLScAw5rPCNr5kzIA6tIO5m5xnfa
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Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging strategies

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Of course, if you cite extreme examples. But, I think, the article was 
about cars and domestic charging.


<< Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? 
https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abramowitz" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 30-Jul-20 12:57:13 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging 
strategies



I can tell you that the power needs ARE a concern.

The CEO of one trucking company that uses alternative fueled trucks of varying 
technologies, blanched when told that two Tesla trucks would require 2MW for 
charging, when his entire site had capacity for only 4 MW.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone


 On Jul 30, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:

 Well, the article imprecisely referred to "high speed chargers." Do you think 
they are concerned by everyone using level 2 at the same time ?

 Second, the article mentions a cul-de-sac as an example case. I think it 
matters a lot where people charge. If the L3 chargers are in a residential 
setting, they will put more load on a system already near max during peak 
periods. Commercial already has much higher capacity and L3 chargers probably 
don't add so much additional load. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 Peri

 << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ 
>>

 -- Original Message --
 From: e...@vanderwal.us
 To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 

 Sent: 30-Jul-20 11:57:50 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging 
strategies


 First, why do utilities think people will install level 3 chargers ? A
 small percentage of people really do drive that much every day,


 I think the utilities are expecting that people will use Public level 3 
chargers during the day and private level 2 at night.
 I.e. for the majority of people, their vehicles are not home during peak 
solar, and perhaps also not home during the early evenings.

 From the utlities point of view, it doesn't matter where they charge, only 
that they are charging.


 ___
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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Lee Hart via EV]

EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 30 Jul 2020 at 10:58, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:


no mention of 240 VAC two phase?


I'm not an EE, but I don't think that such a thing exists anywhere, at least
not as commercial power.  The US does have 240v split phase, but that's
single phase.


I don't think 2-phase power is distributed in the US; but it is still 
widely used to power motors. The "permanent split capacitor" motor in 
your furnace, A/C or refrigerator is in fact a 2-phase motor, where the 
second phase is produced by a capacitor in series with the AC line. The 
current in a capacitor is 90 deg. phase-shifted from its voltage, which 
provides the second phase.


Such motors are smaller, lighter, cheaper, more efficient, and smoother 
than single-phase motors. It's a bit like comparing a 1-cylinder to a 
2-cylinder ICE engine; the latter is much better.


Lee Hart

--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging strategies

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Well, the article imprecisely referred to "high speed chargers." Do you 
think they are concerned by everyone using level 2 at the same time ?


Second, the article mentions a cul-de-sac as an example case. I think it 
matters a lot where people charge. If the L3 chargers are in a 
residential setting, they will put more load on a system already near 
max during peak periods. Commercial already has much higher capacity and 
L3 chargers probably don't add so much additional load. Correct me if 
I'm wrong.


Peri

<< Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? 
https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>


-- Original Message --
From: e...@vanderwal.us
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 30-Jul-20 11:57:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging 
strategies



 First, why do utilities think people will install level 3 chargers ? A
 small percentage of people really do drive that much every day,


I think the utilities are expecting that people will use Public level 3 
chargers during the day and private level 2 at night.
I.e. for the majority of people, their vehicles are not home during peak solar, 
and perhaps also not home during the early evenings.

From the utlities point of view, it doesn't matter where they charge, only that 
they are charging.


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Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging strategies

[Peter VanDerWal via EV]

> First, why do utilities think people will install level 3 chargers ? A 
> small percentage of people really do drive that much every day,

I think the utilities are expecting that people will use Public level 3 
chargers during the day and private level 2 at night.  
I.e. for the majority of people, their vehicles are not home during peak solar, 
and perhaps also not home during the early evenings.

>From the utlities point of view, it doesn't matter where they charge, only 
>that they are charging.
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[EVDL] Win a $26k Leaf EV 8/21-23 @ starhomeshow.kiwi in Christchurch-NZ

[evln via EV]

https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-lifestyle/win-electric-car-home-and-leisure-show
Win an electric car at the Home and Leisure Show
30 July 2020 ... an array of major prizes have been sourced to give away to
several lucky Cantabrians who attend ... A major drawcard is an electric car
giveaway from HVS Motors worth $26,000, with more prizes to be announced
closer to the time. 

Look out for your free tickets featured in upcoming newspapers, if you cut
them out and take them along, you can gain free entry for yourself, friends
and family.

Mark your calendars, The Star Home and Leisure Show will be held from August
21-23 over Friday, Saturday and Sunday ...
https://www.odt.co.nz/sites/default/files/story/2020/07/show_car_.png
...
https://www.google.com/search?q=2020+Star+Media+Home+Leisure+Show+Horncastle+Arena
...
https://www.hvsmotors.co.nz/ev-hybrid


+ (GMC Hummer EV as a Military Vehicle)
https://www.futurecar.com/4052/GMC-Hummer-EV-Could-Be-Used-as-a-Possible-Military-Vehicle
GMC Hummer EV Could Be Used as a Possible Military Vehicle
Jul 26, 2020 ... Summary: the electric pickup will be heavily modified to
carry troops, gear, and anything else the military deems necessary ... the
electric pickup will be built at General Motors' Detroit-Hamtramck assembly
plant ... will be ... with 1,000 horsepower and 11,500 pound-feet of torque.
The pickup is expected to have blistering performance with a zero-to-60 mph
time of 3.0 seconds and boast excellent off-roading prowess ...  will be
built at General Motors' Detroit-Hamtramck assembly plant ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
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{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Willie via EV]

On 7/30/20 9:29 AM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

On Thu Jul 30 09:49:15 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:

On 7/30/20 7:03 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:

Yes, that looks promising..  How much is the 3 or 5kw model?


https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-3kW-24V-Any-Grid-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverer-p/phocos-psw-h-3kw-230-24v.htm

https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-Any-Grid-5kW-48V-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverter-p/phocos-psw-h-5kw-230-48v.htm


I'll be interested once it's proven that you can use a battery pack for the PV 
input, AND not have a 48V battery pack attached.


I'd look at the Delta first.  It's cheaper and immediately available. 
In addition, there is a great deal of uncertainty as to exactly what it 
wants for a battery; it was designed for a not available Tesla battery.


The recent use has been just as a straightforward grid tie inverter. 
The seller has started advertising that it will produce grid down PV 
power without a battery.  I've tested just a little but not yet had success.


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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 30 Jul 2020 at 10:58, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

> no mention of 240 VAC two phase?

I'm not an EE, but I don't think that such a thing exists anywhere, at least 
not as commercial power.  The US does have 240v split phase, but that's 
single phase.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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 of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.

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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Thu Jul 30 09:49:15 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>On 7/30/20 7:03 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>> Yes, that looks promising..  How much is the 3 or 5kw model?
>
>https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-3kW-24V-Any-Grid-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverer-p/phocos-psw-h-3kw-230-24v.htm
>
>https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-Any-Grid-5kW-48V-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverter-p/phocos-psw-h-5kw-230-48v.htm

I'll be interested once it's proven that you can use a battery pack for the PV 
input, AND not have a 48V battery pack attached.


--

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Willie via EV]

On 7/30/20 7:03 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:

Yes, that looks promising..  How much is the 3 or 5kw model?
Bob

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:44 PM Willie via EV > wrote:




On 7/29/20 7:58 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
 > If you can find an off-grid inverter with 300 VDC input then I
sure want to
 > know about it!  Really.d.. that is the holy grail...
 > All off-grid inverets I see are designed for 48 volts for
compatibility
 > with batteries.
 > You only see 300-500 VDC input on Grid inverters since there are no
 > batteries.

This might be worth a look:

https://www.phocos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PSW-H-Series_english-datasheet_2020-07-17.pdf

I have a 5kw on order for testing.  Maximum VDC of 450 will, I think,
require some adjustment in the way I've been doing things.

BUT, the price is VERY attractive.


https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-3kW-24V-Any-Grid-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverer-p/phocos-psw-h-3kw-230-24v.htm

https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-Any-Grid-5kW-48V-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverter-p/phocos-psw-h-5kw-230-48v.htm



Also, there are a lot of abandoned Delta/SolarCity 6kw H6 inverters on
the market even cheaper.  I believe they may accept up to 600vdc.  If
you need a link, ask.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-H6-6000W-Grid-Tied-Inverter-NEW-Battery-less-Backup-UL1741-Rule-21-2MPPT/233314195391?hash=item36529c17bf:g:6pEAAOSwyJFfEflo
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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Yes, that looks promising..  How much is the 3 or 5kw model?
Bob

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 12:44 PM Willie via EV  wrote:

>
>
> On 7/29/20 7:58 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> > If you can find an off-grid inverter with 300 VDC input then I sure want
> to
> > know about it!  Really.d.. that is the holy grail...
> > All off-grid inverets I see are designed for 48 volts for compatibility
> > with batteries.
> > You only see 300-500 VDC input on Grid inverters since there are no
> > batteries.
>
> This might be worth a look:
>
> https://www.phocos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PSW-H-Series_english-datasheet_2020-07-17.pdf
>
> I have a 5kw on order for testing.  Maximum VDC of 450 will, I think,
> require some adjustment in the way I've been doing things.
>
> BUT, the price is VERY attractive.
>
> Also, there are a lot of abandoned Delta/SolarCity 6kw H6 inverters on
> the market even cheaper.  I believe they may accept up to 600vdc.  If
> you need a link, ask.
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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Yes, how much are they?
Single or 3 phase but no mention of 240 VAC two phase?
And is that 9 amps at 115 or 230?   I guess it is a 2kw nominal inverter?
Bob

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 2:34 PM Lee Hart  wrote:

> Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> > If you can find an off-grid inverter with 300 VDC input then I sure want
> to
> > know about it!  Really... that is the holy grail...
>
> Bob, I have an Aerovironment SPC-2000 off-grid inverter. The solar input
> is 150-600 VDC, 8 amps max, and the output is 115/208/230vac single- or
> 3-phase, 9.5a continuous, 13a peak. It's intended to drive motors up to
> 1.5HP single-phase, or 2.5HP 3-phase (pumps, fans, blowers,
> refrigerators), Would that help?
>
> Lee Hart
>
> --
> A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
> nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
>  -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
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Re: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging strategies

[Peri Hartman via EV]

First, why do utilities think people will install level 3 chargers ? A 
small percentage of people really do drive that much every day, but the 
rest rarely do and probably wouldn't want to pay the $thousands it takes 
to install one.  At any rate, it seems there are at least two easy ways 
to help mitigate too much load on the infrastructure:


1. charge more for kW delivered to the residence that exceed some 
threshold

2. charge less for kW delivered during non peak periods

Both could be handled by a time-of-use meter for the residence, but if 
people balk at that, there is another way that would be just as 
effective. Instead, install a second time-of-use meter for just the EV 
charging. Then, the billing can be adjusted, respectively for the above, 
as:


1. the EV meter shows charging over some threshold, any time of day
2. the EV meter shows charging at any level during non peak periods

For both the above, the balance of energy would be charged at the normal 
rate.


Utilities could also bill a surcharge for installing a level 3 charger, 
but that's probably too easy to circumvent.


Peri

<< Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? 
https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>


-- Original Message --
From: "evln via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "evln" 
Sent: 30-Jul-20 3:37:41 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging 
strategies





https://scitechdaily.com/smoothing-out-the-duck-curve-influx-of-electric-vehicles-accelerates-need-for-grid-planning/
Smoothing Out the “Duck Curve” – Influx of Electric Vehicles Accelerates
Need for Grid Planning
JULY 29, 2020  PACIFIC NORTHWEST NATIONAL LABORATORY

[image
https://scitechdaily.com/images/Planning-for-EVs-777x393.jpg
Planning for EVs can help cities avoid large investments in grid
infrastructure down the road. Credit: Mike Perkins, PNNL
]

For grid reliability, PNNL study shows advance planning and smart EV
charging strategies could help cities and utilities smooth out the duck
curve and avoid costly new infrastructure.

Electric vehicles are coming–en masse. How can local utilities, grid
planners and cities prepare? That’s the key question addressed with a new
study led by researchers at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory for the
U.S. Department of Energy’s Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable
Energy’s Vehicle Technologies Office.

“While we don’t know exactly when the tipping point will happen, fleets of
fast-charging vehicles are going to change how cities and utilities manage
their electricity infrastructure” said Michael Kintner-Meyer, an electrical
systems engineer in PNNL’s Electricity Infrastructure group and the study’s
lead author. “It’s not a question of if, but when.”

The study, published today, integrates multiple factors not evaluated
before, such as electric trucks for delivery and long haul, as well as smart
EV charging strategies.

EV Charging Station
Over the next decade, EVs of all sizes will increasingly plug into charging
stations at homes, businesses and on transportation routes.

Transportation electrification is coming
According to EV Hub, about 1.5 million EVs, mostly cars and SUVs, are
currently on the road in the United States. PNNL researchers evaluated the
capacity of the power grid in the western U.S. over the next decade as
growing fleets of EVs of all sizes, including trucks, plug into charging
stations at homes and businesses and on transportation routes.

For their study, the authors used the best available data about future grid
capacity from the Western Electricity Coordinating Council, or WECC. The
analysis revealed the maximum EV load the grid could accommodate without
building more power plants and transmission lines.

The good news is that through 2028, the overall power system, from
generation through transmission, looks healthy up to 24 million EVs–about 9%
of the current light-duty vehicle traffic in the United States.

However, at about 30 million EVs, things get dicey. At the local level,
issues may arise at even smaller EV adoption numbers. That’s because one
fast-charging EV can draw as much load as up to 50 homes. If, for example,
every house in a cul-de-sac has an EV, one power transformer won’t be able
to handle multiple EVs charging at the same time.

Planning for EVs
Planning for EVs can help cities avoid large investments in grid
infrastructure down the road. Credit: Mike Perkins, PNNL

Smoothing out the duck curve.
As detailed in the report, current grid planning doesn’t adequately account
for a mass influx of EVs. That omission exacerbates an already stressful
situation–the dreaded duck curve.


The duck curve is a 24-hour profile of load on the power system, and usually
occurs in areas with a lot of photovoltaic–or solar–rooftop installations.
The curve is based on moderate load in the morning, low load during the day
when solar units feed electricity into the grid, and high load at night as
people get home from work and the sun goes down.

When demand

Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

True, south always better.  But the point is that then you need an inverter
with twice the capacity..
The topic being discussed is being able to share an inverter with
additional panels facing a different direction.

Key points:  1) when not facing due south, panels should be less tilted
since the sun rises in the NE and sets in the NW, having flatter panels
gets more sun time in the middle of the day.
2) Even if both panels are quite illuminated at the same time, the MPPT
inverter will not be overloaded.  It will always adjust to max power and no
more.  SO having some overlap is OK.
3) In my case, my SE panels begin to be shaded by 2 PM, so I installed
another set of panels facing SW that begin to be unshaded about the same
time,
4) You must parallel them with diode isolation.

Back to #1, remember that even FLAT panels will produce 80% annual totals
of the ideal south panels.  They are terrible in the winter but make up for
it with the double high-sun in the summer.  Though do not do it, they will
collect dust and cant wash off in the rain.  Im just makiong the point that
the only placew where you tilt to latitude is due south.  Other directions,
less tilt is better.

Bob

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:00 AM Peter VanDerWal via EV 
wrote:

> FWIW I did some simulations using PVWatts 2 a while back to see if it made
> sense to have a panel facing east and another facing west, like you
> describe(tilted to match latitude).  I was hoping this would result in a
> flatter power output through the day.  Turned out that in almost all cases
> it was better off to have both panels facing south(tilted to match
> latitude).
> More power across the whole day and obviously more daily energy produced.
>
> July 29, 2020 6:55 PM, "Willie via EV"  wrote:
> > Yes. With a vertical angle between of 30-40 deg; a pair of panels make a
> near equilateral triangle
> > with the ground. I'm wondering if I might see better results by reducing
> that angle between panels.
> >
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Peter VanDerWal via EV]

FWIW I did some simulations using PVWatts 2 a while back to see if it made 
sense to have a panel facing east and another facing west, like you 
describe(tilted to match latitude).  I was hoping this would result in a 
flatter power output through the day.  Turned out that in almost all cases it 
was better off to have both panels facing south(tilted to match latitude).  
More power across the whole day and obviously more daily energy produced.

July 29, 2020 6:55 PM, "Willie via EV"  wrote:
> Yes. With a vertical angle between of 30-40 deg; a pair of panels make a near 
> equilateral triangle
> with the ground. I'm wondering if I might see better results by reducing that 
> angle between panels.
>
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[EVDL] Smoothing Out the dreaded Duck-Curve> EV charging strategies

[evln via EV]

https://scitechdaily.com/smoothing-out-the-duck-curve-influx-of-electric-vehicles-accelerates-need-for-grid-planning/
Smoothing Out the “Duck Curve” – Influx of Electric Vehicles Accelerates
Need for Grid Planning
JULY 29, 2020  PACIFIC NORTHWEST NATIONAL LABORATORY

[image
https://scitechdaily.com/images/Planning-for-EVs-777x393.jpg
Planning for EVs can help cities avoid large investments in grid
infrastructure down the road. Credit: Mike Perkins, PNNL
] 

For grid reliability, PNNL study shows advance planning and smart EV
charging strategies could help cities and utilities smooth out the duck
curve and avoid costly new infrastructure.

Electric vehicles are coming–en masse. How can local utilities, grid
planners and cities prepare? That’s the key question addressed with a new
study led by researchers at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory for the
U.S. Department of Energy’s Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable
Energy’s Vehicle Technologies Office.

“While we don’t know exactly when the tipping point will happen, fleets of
fast-charging vehicles are going to change how cities and utilities manage
their electricity infrastructure” said Michael Kintner-Meyer, an electrical
systems engineer in PNNL’s Electricity Infrastructure group and the study’s
lead author. “It’s not a question of if, but when.”

The study, published today, integrates multiple factors not evaluated
before, such as electric trucks for delivery and long haul, as well as smart
EV charging strategies.

EV Charging Station
Over the next decade, EVs of all sizes will increasingly plug into charging
stations at homes, businesses and on transportation routes.

Transportation electrification is coming
According to EV Hub, about 1.5 million EVs, mostly cars and SUVs, are
currently on the road in the United States. PNNL researchers evaluated the
capacity of the power grid in the western U.S. over the next decade as
growing fleets of EVs of all sizes, including trucks, plug into charging
stations at homes and businesses and on transportation routes.

For their study, the authors used the best available data about future grid
capacity from the Western Electricity Coordinating Council, or WECC. The
analysis revealed the maximum EV load the grid could accommodate without
building more power plants and transmission lines.

The good news is that through 2028, the overall power system, from
generation through transmission, looks healthy up to 24 million EVs–about 9%
of the current light-duty vehicle traffic in the United States.

However, at about 30 million EVs, things get dicey. At the local level,
issues may arise at even smaller EV adoption numbers. That’s because one
fast-charging EV can draw as much load as up to 50 homes. If, for example,
every house in a cul-de-sac has an EV, one power transformer won’t be able
to handle multiple EVs charging at the same time.

Planning for EVs
Planning for EVs can help cities avoid large investments in grid
infrastructure down the road. Credit: Mike Perkins, PNNL

Smoothing out the duck curve.
As detailed in the report, current grid planning doesn’t adequately account
for a mass influx of EVs. That omission exacerbates an already stressful
situation–the dreaded duck curve.


The duck curve is a 24-hour profile of load on the power system, and usually
occurs in areas with a lot of photovoltaic–or solar–rooftop installations.
The curve is based on moderate load in the morning, low load during the day
when solar units feed electricity into the grid, and high load at night as
people get home from work and the sun goes down.

When demand spikes, voltage plummets. This severe swing is hard on system
operations that weren’t designed to flip on and off like a light switch. And
with more EVs plugging in to charge in the evening, the ramp-up becomes even
steeper and drives up electricity costs.

Smart charging strategies–avoiding charging during peak hours in the morning
and early evening–can smooth out demand peaks and fill in the duck curve,
according to the study. The approach has two upsides. First, it would take
advantage of relatively clean solar power during the day. It would also
reduce or eliminate the sharp ramps in the evening when solar power fades
and other sources kick in to make up the difference.

Plausible scenarios emphasize need for planning
Building from the WECC data, the team developed and modeled plausible
scenarios for 2028. The scenarios were vetted with business leaders and
included a mix of light- (passenger), medium- (delivery trucks and vans) and
heavy- (semis and cargo) duty vehicles on the road–the first time all three
vehicle classes have been included in such an analysis. PNNL also developed
a transportation model for freight on the road, with charging stations on
interstate freeways every 50 miles for all three vehicle classes.

The scenarios included the evolution of the grid and its capacity at state
and regional levels. The team focused on scenarios with the greatest
potential

[EVDL] Jamie Foxx drives a Tesla

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

Tesla is the Tums of cars because it gets rid of gas. Lawrenc Rhodes 
https://youtu.be/tB15Da2TRWw


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Re: [EVDL] prius as generator

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

AMEN!
We need to be careful about using the term MPPT.

MPPT in a solar grid-tie inverter will MAXIMIZE power from the source
(solar panels) and dump it all in the infinite grid.
Putting a battery in place of solar panels will do the same thing.  It will
MAXIMALLY load the battery and shove everything it can into the grid. (this
makes no sense to any practical use)

And when the grid goes down, it shuts down, again, of no practical value to
anyone.  The only exception is a MPPT Grid-Tie inverter that ALSO has in
internal switch over from grid-tie to a "secure power outlet" like the SMA
inverters.  But then it is no longer operating like an MPPT inverter and
acts like a simple $99 1500 Watt battery inverter.

MPPT is also used to describe solar battery chargers to maximize the
battery charging from whatever sun is available,  But this is a totally
different application and has nothing to do with feeding a load.

Bob

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 3:30 PM John Lussmyer via EV 
wrote:

> On Wed Jul 29 09:44:30 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >This might be worth a look:
> >
> https://www.phocos.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/PSW-H-Series_english-datasheet_2020-07-17.pdf
> >
> >I have a 5kw on order for testing.  Maximum VDC of 450 will, I think,
> >require some adjustment in the way I've been doing things.
>
> Except that the 450VDC Max is only for the PV Input which has a MPPT
> controller.
> I've read several places that a MPPT setup does not like being fed by
> batteries.
>
>
> --
>
> Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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>
>
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[EVDL] Solar Trike

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

Interesting tinkerer. Carbon fiber supports for his panels. Lawrence Rhodes
 https://youtu.be/7yXk6MPnG-c


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