Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
Have they really gone “far beyond” settlement requirements? Many of their investments in EVs were mandated as part of the settlement agreement. I suspect it was a little of both, as they have been working on EVs (both battery and fuel cell electrics) for many years. But then, GM has also been working on these technologies, and has huge numbers of patents. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Jan 29, 2021, at 9:47 AM, Willie via EV wrote: > > > >> On 1/29/21 8:10 AM, paul dove via EV wrote: >> Well, it's not the same thing really. What GM did was legal. What VW did >> was illegal. VW got their hand slapped and this is the deal they made to >> make up for the deceit. > > Well, there is "illegal" and then there is reprehensible. > > VW has gone far beyond their settlement requirements. They are showing that > they are serious about conversion to EVs. GM is just talking and postponing. > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
[EVDL] nature.com 1/18/21 Thermally modulated lithium iron phosphate batteries for mass-market electric vehicles
Its a very brief article. Said to be safe and cheap and as an added bonus cobalt-free. Lets hope the lab to fleet can scale well. Multiple links and references cited. Danny Ames nature.com 1/18/21 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-020-00757-7 adamasintel.com 5/4/20 https://www.adamasintel.com/lfp-market-2019-cell-to-pack-comeback/ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
On 29 Jan 2021 at 11:47, Willie via EV wrote: > VW has gone far beyond their settlement requirements. They are showing > that they are serious about conversion to EVs. GM is just talking and > postponing. I'm not a VW executive, so I have no idea of their reasoning; but that could be partly because they're a global vehicle manufactuer, and they'd like to carry on with selling vehicles worldwide. :-) In 2019, VW sold three-quarters of its vehicles in Asia and Europe, where consumers and governments have made it clear that they want EVs. Only 6% of their 2019 sales were in the US. GM, on the other hand, is still primarily a US-oriented automaker. Like many other automakers, they say that they think their future is in China. However, in 2019 they still sold more vehicles in the US (40% of their sales) than in China (37%). Again, I'm not an auto industry expert, but I'd guess that many of the Chinese sales are more attributable to their Chinese automaker partners than to anything GM themselves actually did. Please correct me if that's wrong. GM still have their flag planted solidly in their US fleet of bloated, inefficient, high-profit trucks and SUVs. I expect they'll waddle on that way for another couple of decades here in the States. GM has no worries about Europe's 2025-2040 EV goals. After decades of failure and losses, they wrote off Europe in 2017 when they sold their Opel and Vauxhall divisions to PSA. But if they really think their future is in China, then they'd darn well better get cracking on EVs, because China wants them too. Just think how much more experience and worldwide "cred" GM would have with EVs right now if they hadn't buried NiMH, and if instead of crushing the EV1, they'd evolved it into something more like the Tesla S. But they didn't. In 2019 Volkswagen sold 6.3 million vehicles worldwide. GM sold 1.9 million. If I were an investor, I don't think I'd be buying GM stock right now, no matter how much they talk about their EV future. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = My therapist told me that a great way to let go of your anger is to write letters to people you hate and then burn them. I did that, and I feel much better, but I'm wondering - do I keep the letters? -- Anonymous = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
On 1/29/21 8:10 AM, paul dove via EV wrote: Well, it's not the same thing really. What GM did was legal. What VW did was illegal. VW got their hand slapped and this is the deal they made to make up for the deceit. Well, there is "illegal" and then there is reprehensible. VW has gone far beyond their settlement requirements. They are showing that they are serious about conversion to EVs. GM is just talking and postponing. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
On 1/29/21 9:31 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: As far as GM's "crime" about NiMH, the biggest difference is that no one knows about it. Yes, everyone who's been on this list does. But if you were to ask random people, probably 99% don't know and probably don't know what NiMH is, either. You make my point that GM has been successful in obscuring their really terrible history. And, they continue. EVAngels should do more to "hold GM's feet to the fire". ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
Well, it's not the same thing really. What GM did was legal. What VW did was illegal. VW got their hand slapped and this is the deal they made to make up for the deceit. On Friday, January 29, 2021, 6:49:04 AM CST, Willie via EV wrote: On 1/28/21 8:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official. > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/ > Well, it IS great news! I see it as an act of desperation. Too little, too slow, too late. GM committed what I consider a fatal sin in removing the possibility, for ~10 years, of using NiMh in EVs. I've many times seen the argument that it is time to forgive and forget GM's NiMH actions. That NiMH would never have made acceptable EV batteries. That it was GM's right to remove NiMH from the EV market. That none of the GM people that did the NiMH deed remain in the company. It seems that all making those arguments may be doing so at GM's direction. GM has never "owned up" to what they did and continue to try to ignore their history. Contrast GM to VW. VW made a mistake. They admitted the mistake. They are adopting EV production as soon as possible. GM has continued to ignore their crime and apparently continue to try to suppress public knowledge of the history. In considering what might have been had GM not suppressed NiMH, a comparison of the first RAV4EV with the Leaf is appropriate. The NiMH RAV4 preceded the Leaf by about 10 years. The RAV4 battery gave the car greater range than the Leaf and the RAV4 battery has proven to be longer lived that the Leaf battery. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210129/b1988751/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
As far as GM's "crime" about NiMH, the biggest difference is that no one knows about it. Yes, everyone who's been on this list does. But if you were to ask random people, probably 99% don't know and probably don't know what NiMH is, either. Will GM keep to it's statement ? Not without pressure. Pressure probably will come from the gov, but the real pressure will be from Tesla and other manufacturers. The real measure of the tipping point is when the average consumer thinks buying an EV is a good financial move. Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> -- Original Message -- From: "Willie via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "Willie" Sent: 29-Jan-21 4:48:55 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production On 1/28/21 8:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/ Well, it IS great news! I see it as an act of desperation. Too little, too slow, too late. GM committed what I consider a fatal sin in removing the possibility, for ~10 years, of using NiMh in EVs. I've many times seen the argument that it is time to forgive and forget GM's NiMH actions. That NiMH would never have made acceptable EV batteries. That it was GM's right to remove NiMH from the EV market. That none of the GM people that did the NiMH deed remain in the company. It seems that all making those arguments may be doing so at GM's direction. GM has never "owned up" to what they did and continue to try to ignore their history. Contrast GM to VW. VW made a mistake. They admitted the mistake. They are adopting EV production as soon as possible. GM has continued to ignore their crime and apparently continue to try to suppress public knowledge of the history. In considering what might have been had GM not suppressed NiMH, a comparison of the first RAV4EV with the Leaf is appropriate. The NiMH RAV4 preceded the Leaf by about 10 years. The RAV4 battery gave the car greater range than the Leaf and the RAV4 battery has proven to be longer lived that the Leaf battery. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
Yes, but statements like this GM one are nonsense. Elon repeatedly says the hurtle is battery production. He would have several different models already if he could make the batteries faster. I don’t see others building giga factories like Tesla so it’s a pipe dream and political showing. Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Thursday, January 28, 2021, 8:13 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: Does anyone still disagree that we’ve passed the tipping point? - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Jan 28, 2021, at 6:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official. > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/ > > GM has said it would invest $27 billion in electric vehicles and associated > products between 2020 and 2025, ... includes refurbishing factories and > investing in battery production in conjunction with LG Chem, a South Korean > battery maker. > > By late 2025, about 40 percent of the company’s U.S. models will be > battery-powered electric vehicles, > > The electric-vehicle industry has grown exponentially in the past decade but > still represents less than 2 percent of automobiles sold in the United States. > > The timing of the GM announcement was tied in large part to the election of > Joe Biden ... Biden signed an executive order that calls for the federal > fleet of approximately 645,000 vehicles to be converted to electric power. He > has also vowed to expand charging stations for electric cars, revise and > extend electric-vehicle tax credits and tighten fuel economy standards for > gas-powered vehicles. > > Volkswagen, for example, is planning to launch almost 70 new electric models > in the next 10 years... Ford ... is spending $11.5 billion through 2022 on > new EVs. Tesla plans to increase sales of its all-electric fleet. > > > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210129/fe59baac/attachment.html> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210129/a2db4c32/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
On 1/28/21 8:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/ Well, it IS great news! I see it as an act of desperation. Too little, too slow, too late. GM committed what I consider a fatal sin in removing the possibility, for ~10 years, of using NiMh in EVs. I've many times seen the argument that it is time to forgive and forget GM's NiMH actions. That NiMH would never have made acceptable EV batteries. That it was GM's right to remove NiMH from the EV market. That none of the GM people that did the NiMH deed remain in the company. It seems that all making those arguments may be doing so at GM's direction. GM has never "owned up" to what they did and continue to try to ignore their history. Contrast GM to VW. VW made a mistake. They admitted the mistake. They are adopting EV production as soon as possible. GM has continued to ignore their crime and apparently continue to try to suppress public knowledge of the history. In considering what might have been had GM not suppressed NiMH, a comparison of the first RAV4EV with the Leaf is appropriate. The NiMH RAV4 preceded the Leaf by about 10 years. The RAV4 battery gave the car greater range than the Leaf and the RAV4 battery has proven to be longer lived that the Leaf battery. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
Does anyone still disagree that we’ve passed the tipping point? - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Jan 28, 2021, at 6:01 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > It's a long way off but, hey, they are making it official. > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/01/28/general-motors-electric/ > > GM has said it would invest $27 billion in electric vehicles and associated > products between 2020 and 2025, ... includes refurbishing factories and > investing in battery production in conjunction with LG Chem, a South Korean > battery maker. > > By late 2025, about 40 percent of the company’s U.S. models will be > battery-powered electric vehicles, > > The electric-vehicle industry has grown exponentially in the past decade but > still represents less than 2 percent of automobiles sold in the United States. > > The timing of the GM announcement was tied in large part to the election of > Joe Biden ... Biden signed an executive order that calls for the federal > fleet of approximately 645,000 vehicles to be converted to electric power. He > has also vowed to expand charging stations for electric cars, revise and > extend electric-vehicle tax credits and tighten fuel economy standards for > gas-powered vehicles. > > Volkswagen, for example, is planning to launch almost 70 new electric models > in the next 10 years... Ford ... is spending $11.5 billion through 2022 on > new EVs. Tesla plans to increase sales of its all-electric fleet. > > > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210129/fe59baac/attachment.html> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will cease ICE production
That's pretty music, but it's just a new verse to an old song. How loudly GM sing it depends greatly on which way the political winds blow. In 1978, GM promised that by 1980 I'd be able to buy a Chevette EV. I'm still waiting. Pop quiz - what happened in US politics in 1980? Who was it who ordered the Carter solar panels torn off the White House roof? I can't seem to recall. The other side of this coin is that most of the rest of the first world doesn't have this weird oscillation. The emphasis they put on reducing carbon emissions and promoting renewable energy varies from nation to nation and administration to administration, but they seldom have the kind of jarring, radical environmentally backward lurches that we get here. France and the UK plan to ban ICEV sales by 2040. in fact I think I read recently that the UK is considering advancing that to 2030, and France wants at least Paris to be 100% EV by 2030. Germany and Netherlands want zero ICEVs on sale, also by 2030. Germany is pushing for this to be an EU-wide policy. Norway's aiming for 2025. Already in 2020, over half the vehicles sold in Norway were EVs. So if GM wants to keep selling vehicles outside the US, they'd darn well better start looking outside our borders, and get serious about EVs, fast. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Most people here [in the US] don't want an abrupt reshuffling of everything. That's why we've had only one revolution. It's why we've fought off the metric system all these years, and thank heaven we have. -- Fox anchor Tucker Carlson = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
