Re: [EVDL] Remote Controlled Cars

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

 Saying that FSD is a better driver than many people that you’ve seen
is not really saying much at all. There are a lot of really bad drivers all
over this country. In 2008 one of them ran into the back of my car as I was
pulling into my driveway. It was daylight, and both my tail lights and turn
signals had been checked less than a week prior. I spent 2 1/2 weeks in the
emergency ward of the hospital, and then about 2 1/2 months in Timber Ridge
Ranch, a neuro rehab facility. My Glasco Comma score was 8 out of a max of
15.
 I think that full self drive is needed, but I do not trust it yet. In
10 or 20 years it will probably be good enough to be required in most if
not all cases.
Bobby Keeland, PhD
(Research Scientist, Retired from the US Geological Survey, not a medical
doctor)
Arnaudville, Louisiana

On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 5:47 PM John Lussmyer via EV 
wrote:

> On 12/3/2024 3:29 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
> > I'm not just talking about Tesla.  This applies to all attempts to
> remotely
> > control "autonomous" vehicles.
> You make it sound like the "Autonomous" part doesn't, and can't exist.
> It does exist, and it's getting better fast.  I use it.  A lot.
> The existing Robo taxis from non-tesla shops have human drivers - for
> the (frequent) odd cases that the car can't handle itself.  They are NOT
> being remotely driven all the time.  The remote is used when the car
> gets into a situation it can't handle, which usually means "Stopped
> somewhere due to weird circumstances".  It does not mean "ask for help
> because it's currently flying upside down through the air".
>
> I'm quite sure that Tesla is hiring "drivers" because this is a NEW
> PRODUCT being rolled out for the first time - AND they want it to go well.
> It's called being careful, and being able to prevent a public relations
> disaster.  They really don't want a litigation nightmare.
> Planning to handle unexpected events is generally considered a good idea.
> FSD is damn good already, and I don't even have the latest version.
>
> Yes, it's not perfect.  Though it appears to be a better driver than
> many people I see on the road.
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Cybertruck

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Someone would have to pay me a lot of money to force me to buy a cyber
truck. Some people really like them, but to me they look stupid.
Bobby Keeland
Arnaudville, Louisiana

On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 9:48 PM Rod Hower via EV  wrote:

>  I'll keep my 2023 Mach E, that thing is an ugly monstrosity!
>
> On Friday, October 4, 2024 at 10:22:43 PM EDT, Cor van de Water via EV
>  wrote:
>
>  Anybody interested in priority delivery of a Cybertruck?
> Apparently my reservation in the queue has come due, so I am entitled
> to use priority delivery, but will likely not use it - anybody
> interested?
> Cor.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: You don't like spiders and snakes?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

My wife and I live in a rural area of southern Louisiana. Prior to May
2019, when we got our Tesla M3, a bunch of rats from a “next door” sugar
cane field invaded our Subaru Forester SUV. The wiring harness was
destroyed by the rats, and according to USAA (our car insurance company)
the car was totaled.
After getting our TM3 we had some wiring issues at the front of the frunk.
A mechanic at the New Orleans Tesla Service Center told us that the wiring
issues consisted of rats chewing through the wiring. The minor amount of
damage was easily repaired. Now we put peppermint soaked cotton balls
throughout all of our vehicles at least monthly. Special attention has been
given to the area in front of and under the tub that makes up the frunk of
the TM3. Now, five years later, there has been no new rat damage.
Bobby Keeland
Arnaudville, Louisiana

On Thu, Aug 15, 2024 at 11:38 AM WILLIAM DENNIS Owner via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Just as an amusing aside, there was a marmot that took up residence in our
> Chevy Volt last year.  Once the garage door was closed, he couldn't get
> out, so he ransacked the contents of the garage, knocking over just about
> everything, and shredding a window screen in attempt to get free.  Oddly,
> when I opened the garage door, instead of leaving, he would climb back
> under the hood and stay there.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Aug, 2024 at 10:25 AM, EV List Lackey via EV 
> wrote:
>
>
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: evp...@drmm.net
> Then you might want to check under your brand new Tesla Model 3, if you
> live
> in Florida.
>
> Tesla is reportedly storing unsold new Model 3s in long-grass fields,
> which
> can invite spiders, snakes, rats, and other critters to take up residence
> in
> the cars.
>
> Full story:
>
>
> https://www.thedrive.com/news/tesla-is-stocking-unsold-brand-new-model-3s-in-
> an-overgrown-field-in-florida
> 
>
> Shortcut URL: https://cntp.me/i5TC69k
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> If all our bicycles turn into cars, that's a horrible figure.
> It would scare the world.
>
>  -- Zhai Guangming, China National Petroleum Corporation
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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Re: [EVDL] Creaky Tesla Y front end at 94K miles

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Tesla has been aware of the problem problem with the upper steering
component for years. It is called a product design problem, but they
stilled charged me to replace it with a new unit.

Because the problem is a known issue that is not just wear and tear it
seems to me that Tesla should replace this faulty part without charge.
Unfortunately Elon Musk wants to have a lot more billions of dollars in his
bank accounts rather than repair problems that are caused by Tesla designed
parts that are known to be faulty.

Bobby Keeland
Arnaudville, Louisiana

On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 12:23 PM (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:

> It's usually the upper that causes this.   It's available over-the-counter
> at Tesla service for $90, Part number 1044321-00-J.   Installation is
> pretty easy, anyone can do it with basic hand tools.  In my opinion, You
> don't need an alignment if you are just replacing the upper, as long as you
> mark the bracket bolts (as show in the video):
>
> https://service.tesla.com/docs/ModelY/ServiceManual/en-us/GUID-B9D351E6-14AE-4EF7-A99E-F4E822047690.html
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 10:29 AM Mark Hanson via EV 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi folks
> > I have a 2021 Tesla Y 94k miles that the front right creaks in slow turns
> > and bumps. The great god google shows some replacing the upper/lower
> > control arms, about $500 from the stealership. Maybe a shock?  Just
> curious
> > if anyone has stumbled into it and where to get Tesla Y parts.
> > Best regards
> > Mark in Roanoke Va
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > ___
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> >
> >
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Yet more bad PR for Tesla

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

 In Aug, 2023 we had to drive our 2019 Tesla Model 3 to a service
center because of a front end noise issue that was most noticeable when we
were backing up and turning. This was when we were repositioning the car
prior to driving out along the driveway. It is usually a two hour drive to
the SC.
 Sure enough the problem was with the front left and right upper
control arms. Problems with these control arms have been known to Tesla for
years, but they didn’t redesign them for years. We were charged $197.02 to
replace a component that was known to be faulty. So much for the makers of
Tesla having the safest cars on the road.

Bobby Keeland
Arnaudville, Louisiana

On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 10:52 AM EV List Lackey via EV 
wrote:

> I just hate seeing thiese dire Tesla news stories piling up.  I'm not an
> engineer or regulator so I can't say anything about their validity.  I
> haven't read any similar reports here on the list.  But for sure the
> negative publicity alone is doing Tesla no good.
>
> -
>
> From Reuters again:
>
> Tesla blamed drivers for failures of parts it long knew were defective
>
> Wheels falling off cars at speed. Suspensions collapsing on brand-new
> vehicles. Axles breaking under acceleration. Tens of thousands of
> customers
> told Tesla about a host of part failures on low-mileage cars. The
> automaker
> sought to blame drivers for vehicle `abuse,´ but Tesla documents show it
> had
> tracked the chronic `flaws´ and `failures´ for years.
>
> *
>
> Individual suspension or steering issues with Teslas have been discussed
> online and in news accounts for years. But the documents, which have not
> been previously reported, offer the most comprehensive view to date into
> the
> scope of the problems and how Tesla handled what its engineers have
> internally called part "flaws" and "failures." The records and interviews
> reveal for the first time that the automaker has long known far more about
> the frequency and extent of the defects than it has disclosed to consumers
> and safety regulators.
>
> *
>
> Tesla has blamed frequent failures of several parts on Tesla owners,
> alleging they abused the cars ... [and] charged customers with out-of-
> warranty cars to replace parts that Tesla engineers internally called
> flawed
> or that they knew had high failure rates.
>
> *
>
> The records reveal persistent problems with ... upper and lower control
> arms, and fore and aft links ... half shafts - the left and right drive
> axles - and steering racks ...
>
> *
>
> Between 2016 and 2020, Tesla resolved about 400 complaints involving aft-
> link failures in China ... Tesla redesigned the part four times because
> the
> initial revisions did not fully fix the problem, the automaker´s records
> show.
>
> *
>
> Tesla delayed a recall for four more years, until Chinese regulators
> pushed
> for one ...  the automaker never recalled the part in the United States
> and
> Europe despite reports of frequent failures globally.
>
> Tesla told U.S. regulators the failures were caused by "driver abuse." The
> company also instructed service centers, in a February 2019 "talking
> points"
> memo, to use the same explanation with customers experiencing aft-link
> failures. They were told to blame "vehicle misuse," such as "hitting a
> curb
> or other excessive strong impact."
>
> *
>
> Tesla owners have filed about 260 complaints with NHTSA over suspension
> and
> steering problems this year, compared to about 750 for General Motors and
> 230 for Toyota. That makes Tesla´s complaint rate far higher when
> considering the number of GM and Toyota vehicles on the road. GM has a 21%
> share of U.S. cars in operation; Toyota, 15%. Tesla´s share: less than 1%,
> according to data analytics firm Experian.
>
> *
>
> "All I can tell you," the Tesla manager said, "is we´re not a 100-year-old
> company like GM and Ford. We haven´t worked all the bugs out yet."
>
> -
>
> Those are just a few highlights (or lowlights if you will).  Read the full
> story:
>
> https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-
> suspension/
> 
>
> or https://v.gd/XaWQzF
>
> Keeping in mind that Tesla also trades in the more strongly regulated EU,
> I
> sure don't want to see Tesla buried under liability and/or legislative
> penalties.  They could end up sold to Stellantis or GM, or even BYD or
> Geely..  I'm concerned that that's where they're headed.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>  I found one day in school a boy of medium size ill-treating
>  a smaller boy. I expostulated, but he replied: "The bigs hit
>  me, so I hit the babies; that's fair." In these words 

Re: [EVDL] Badgered in My EV

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

 I had a rat move into the area in front of the frunk tub. NOLA Tesla
Service Center found the nest while checking a bad wire. You know, the wire
that the rat chewed through. Just before we received our M3 we had a Subaru
Forester. It developed a problem that made the ICE engine run poorly so
puttered (yea, the engine was running very poorly) to a nearby auto repair
shop. They said that it was a wiring problem that was beyond their
capability so I had the car taken to the Subaru dealership. So they said
that rats had completely destroyed the car wiring. At 125,000 it was
totaled, by rats. We are invaded by rats every time that sugarcane is
harvested from the land just south of us.
 I’ve been told that rats and mice like to chew on cars made in Japan
because the wires used in Japanese cars are covered with plastic that is
made using some soybean component. Don’t know if that is true, but the
wiring in my Japanese made car was destroyed while the wiring in my Dodge
pickup and my Ford truck were not chewed up.
 We now put cotton balls that are soaked with peppermint oil in
numerous areas of the car. For one such area I have to remove the frunk tub
so that I have access to areas in front of it.
Bob Keeland

On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 12:26 PM Josh Landess via EV 
wrote:

> good story.  I had one or more mice in my Tesla Model S, and it did only
> a little damage I'm aware of, but yikes, critters can indeed do some
> damage.  I seem to have addressed it with a combination of sonic
> devices, and humane traps.
>
> Josh
>
> On 7/17/2023 5:08 PM, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:
> > Besides an electric motor's not making enough heat to warm a car
> interior, I just discovered another disadvantage to that lack of warmth.
> Every morning this week, I woke up to find our garage ransacked.
> Everything knocked over.  Screens mauled.  Couldn't figure out how whatever
> critter was doing it was getting in there--until I saw some chewed-up
> insulation on the floor and realized that a badger had taken up residence
> in the engine compartment of our Chevy Volt!  That little bugger had been
> riding all over town with me for days, just playing it cool in his
> cubbyhole near the firewall.  I had a heck of a time getting him to vacate,
> but I was finally able to poke and prod him out of there.  I hope he didn't
> do too much damage.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > ___
> > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> >
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices for speculator reasons in click bait headline says advertisers who tesla never advertise with ($35k is here) (Tesla≠TaTa)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Ryan Fulcher said “I've yet to see any contract that anyone has signed that
says that Tesla
is going to deliver them a car for $35k.” Well you have not seen my
contract, but that does not mean that I did not buy a 2019 Tesla M3 for
$35,000 It is a standard range with none of the expensive add-Ins. The car
was delivered to us in the Walmart parking lot in Breaux Bridge. (That is
not a promotion for Walmart, just an odd observation)
 Standard range is not all that bad at 220 miles range. Of course we
usually charge the batteries to 85%, and rarely drive them to below 25%.
Only on long trips and even though we don’t charge to 100%.
 We have traveled from Lafayette, Louisiana to New Orleans several
times (once to see Paul McCartney), Houston twice and San Marcus, Texas
using super chargers both ways. I’ve used navigation to plan trips to see
family and friends in Seattle, Washington, Traverse City, Michigan and
Athens, Georgia. Yes, we stop more often than we did in our ICE cars, but
that is one reason that both my wife and I have kindle apps on our cell
iPhones. I particularly like Jack Reacher and John Milton novels, in
addition to Sci-Fi novels by many authors.

Bobby Keeland, retired Forest Ecology scientist,
Arnaudville, Louisiana (about 15 miles east of Lafayette and 45 miles west
of Baton Rouge - both of which have super chargers).

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 9:31 AM paul dove via EV  wrote:

> They are just like other car companies. If you look for overstock end of
> month sales you can find a deal. I bought my long range Model S 2019 brand
> new because it had been on the lot for a while for $78,000. Had like 50
> miles on it. Autopilot 100kwh battery. Sunroof.
> I saw a plaid that’s been on the lot for a while in Nashville someone
> could probably get a deal on if they didn’t make it a service vehicle. They
> are slowly getting rid of all the ford vans this way.
>
>
> Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2023, 3:32 AM, Cor van de Water via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
> Funny to see the new prices - especially the Model S just under 95k as
> my 2013 S85 MSRP was originally... just under 95k (!)
> Regarding legacy prototype cars availability - while my 2013 is
> certainly not a prototype, it still shows a few of the original early
> issues, such as the touch screen leaking its goop and I have already
> had the eMMC replaced when it was written into oblivion last year. So,
> in a sense it feels like a prototype
> In case anyone is interested in a relatively cheap used Model S with
> the rare dual charger (80 Amps capable, so up to 20kW AC charging) I
> plan to sell it in the coming weeks, located near San Francisco.
> 85kWh pack charges to 230 mi range. More details off-list please
> unless there are general questions about my experience with this
> vehicle, I have owned it for a year now - bought specifically for
> testing during the development of an 80 Amp capable EV charging
> station.
> Cor.
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 1:00 AM Ryan Fulcher via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > ($35k Tesla is here)
> > (Tesla≠TaTa)
> >
> > It's curious to classify MSRP as "Sky High" when for over a decade they
> > have sold every single car they have ever produced...  It appears that
> the
> > market has no problem paying whatever the price happens to be...  It
> > couldn't possibly be that they lowered prices so that both the 5 and 7
> seat
> > model Y would qualify for the IRA rebates, as opposed to previously where
> > only the 7 seat was an SUV ($80k max MSRP) and the 5 seat version was a
> > sedan ($55k max MSRP)?  Very strange indeed.
> >
> > The US Model3 is $9k away and the China Model3 is $2k under that $35k
> price
> > target...
> > Also... Tesla is not beholden to satisfy some expectation we each may
> hold
> > in our
> > minds regarding affordability of a luxury commodity that is a new
> vehicle.
> >
> > I've yet to see any contract that anyone has signed that says that Tesla
> > is going to deliver them a car for $35k, just as I don't expect any of
> the
> > legacy prototype cars to actually show up in a dealers show room.
> > I don't quite understand how people can justify their selective criticism
> > of Tesla.
> >
> > Regarding Prices, these are always relative (As Of Jan 2023):
> >
> > Is this close enough to the $35k car for anyone?
> > https://twitter.com/TroyTeslike/status/1613747950080909312
> > * Tesla Model 3 RWD After US Tax Credit: $36,490
> >
> > https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1613743473928343554
> > • Model S:$94,990 (from $104,990,  9.5% drop)
> > • Model S Plaid: $114,990 (from $135,990, 15.4% drop)
> > • Model X:  $109,990 (from $120,990,  9.1% drop)
> > • Model X Plaid: $119,990 (from $138,990, 13.7% drop)
> >
> > https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1613740973342838784
> > • Model 3 RWD: $43,990 (from $46,990,  6.4% drop)
> > • Model 3 P:  $53,990 (from $62,990, 14.2% drop)
> > • Model Y LR:  $52,990 (from $65,990, 20.0% drop) L

Re: [EVDL] Think City noisy heater blower

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I had a similar noise in the fan mechanism of our Dodge RAM 1/2 ton
pickup. It was caused by rat going through on opening under the hood, just
behind the passenger side front wheel. The rat would bring a lot of leaves
into that area to make a nest. I had to remove what I could of the inside
the cab heater components and then reach my arm into the mechanism as far
as I could and grab as much of the leaves as possible, over a period of
multiple tries. That process was repeated at least two more times as the
rat was very determined to be build the nest. Finally I bought a bottle of
Mighty Mint Rodent repellant online and sprayed the stuff into the area
under the hood.
 In addition, some electrical components in my Tesla M3 quit working.
The NOLA Service Center fixed the problem of wires that had been chewed
through by.. you guessed it, Rats. I now have to remove the frunk tub about
every two weeks. That requires the removal of seven 10mm bolts and then
pulling three plastic pieces off, and pulling each side of the tub up from
some pressure holders. The rat had made a nest in the front area behind the
front bumper. I now soak two cotton balls with peppermint oil and place
them in the area where the nest was. In addition I leave peppermint soaked
cotton balls I the frunk, the trunk, the glove box and under both front
seats. I spray Mighty Mint Rodent Repellent on the area under the car. I
use a similar amount of peppermint soaked cotton balls in the Dodge pickup
and in our Motor home every two weeks. It is a pain to have to do this so
often, but it is better than the rats.
 This is all because I live in a rural area with sugar cane fields
immediately behind our house. Twenty years we lived here without this type
of rat problems, and then the rats moved in.

Bobby Keeland
Arnaudville, Louisiana

On Mon, Dec 26, 2022 at 3:21 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Paul Wallace via EV wrote:
> > My 2011 Enerdel Think City heater blower has become quite noisy and
> vibrates the dash when at the higher settings.  Has anyone else had this
> issue and found a solution?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul Wallace
> > ___
> > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>
> I've had this happen on other cars when sticks or leaves managed to get
> into the blower, throwing it off-balance. This can be anything from easy
> to nearly impossible to fix, depending on how hard it is to get at the
> blower.
>
> Lee
>
> --
> The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
> progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
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Re: [EVDL] Replacing Briggs & Stratton Engine

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I also am interested in equipment needed to convert gas powered equipment
to battery powered electric.
Bobby Keeland
Arnaudville, Louisiana

On Tue, Oct 25, 2022 at 8:22 PM Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:

> Hi,
> The last piece of gas-powered equipment I have is a Simplicity
> chipper-vac -- it's a great piece of equipment that chips up to 3-inch
> branches and vacuums and shreds leaves and lawn debris. The only
> drawback is the gas engine, which is an 8HP Briggs & Stratton 4-stroke
> -- it has an electric start, which is absolutely essential for the first
> start every year because trying to pull-start it is nearly impossible.
> I'd like to convert it to electric. Is there an off-the-shelf option for
> a motor and controller that would be appropriate for this equipment? The
> motor model number is 192437 Type 0161-01, 8HP and my best guess is that
> it'd run at about 3300 RPM. Ideally I'd make it cordless -- If I got rid
> of the gas engine, its starter battery and fuel tank I think an electric
> version might actually be lighter. It would also be a lot quieter -- and
> cleaner.
>
> Anybody have any recommendations/suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> -Tom
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

My wife and I truly love our 2019 Tesla Model 3 even though is has only a
standard range battery (220 miles). We have been considering selling the
car because of Musk. He may be a very intelligent engineer, but he is also
seems to be an idiot in many respects.
Bobby Keeland
Louisiana

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 1:50 PM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Here's one of the reasons Tesla is better: lower drag coefficient. Why
> does that matter ? At freeway speeds that means more range per kWh. And
> that means a smaller battery to be competitive. And that means less
> weight, which also increases range.
>
> Cd
> Tesla 3: 0.23
> Tesla Y: 0.23
> Tesla X: 0.24
>
> Subaru Solterra: 0.28
> Toyota bZ4X: 0.26
> Audi e-tron: 0.28
> volvo xc40: 0.34
> ford mustang: 0.30
> Chevy Bolt EUV: 0.31
> Huyndai Ioniq 5: 0.29
> Kia EV6: 0.28
> Mazda MX-30: 0.29
> Nissan Ariya: 0.30
> Volkswagen ID.4 : 0.28
>
> I wish Tesla would come out with an off road model. One that has
> hydraulic (or servo) suspension lifters so that it can cruise low on the
> freeway and then lift high for avoiding rocks and ruts on mountain
> roads. Add to that tires with enough sidewall for same. In spite of
> Musk, when they do, "I'm down."
>
> Peri
>
>
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "EV List Lackey via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "EV List Lackey" 
> Sent: 20-May-22 10:29:40
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
>
> >On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:
> >
> >>  I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
> >>  Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
> >>  both.
> >
> >Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.
> >I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.
> >
> >I'm not a researcher, but I suspect that the negativity toward Tesla EVs
> >themselves results in large part from their over-sold autopilot.
> >
> >Some owners believe Musk when he says the car is self-driving, so they do
> >stupid stuff and get into wrecks.  Tesla being the new kid in town, and
> high
> >profile, the news media are all over it, so everybody hears about it.
> >
> >Reliability problems may also be a factor.  Consumer Reports says that the
> >Model X was dead last for reliability in their 2021 survey.  :-(
> >
> >---
> >
> >The negativity toward Musk is also easy to explain.  He's a truly
> despicable
> >person, arguably a sociopath.  He has no filters, and he acts out in
> public
> >like a sixth grade class clown demanding attention.
> >
> >Several years ago, a friend of mine mentioned that she admired the Tesla S
> >but couldn't afford one.  Recently she was talking about getting a new (or
> >newer) car and I asked if she was considering buying a Model 3.  "From
> THAT
> >man?  Oh, *GOD* no.  No, no, no."
> >
> >I see similar reactions all over the web. There are thousands of people
> >who'd love to have a Tesla, if they didn't have to give some of their
> money
> >to Musk to get it.
> >
> >Those are anecdotes, and as any statistician will tell you, the plural of
> >anecdote is not data.  So here's some data for you.
> >
> >A recent survey found that only 25% of Democrats thought Tesla was
> >trustworthy as a company.  The trust level from Republicans, who aren't
> >known as big EV buyers, was actually HIGHER at 27%.
> >
> >The main point here is the percentage, not the politics.  I remember the
> >raised eyebrows some years back when a survey found that only 43% of
> >Americans had a positive impression of the US automakers as a group.
> >
> >And now we have ~26% trust for Tesla.  Yikes.
> >
> >But Tesla sales keep rising!  I'd argue that that's *despite* Musk's and
> >Tesla's negative images.  I'm pretty sure that it's not because of them.
> >
> >Tesla DOES make really good EVs.  You can tell, because their owners seem
> to
> >love them despite their reliability problems, and autopilot's attempts to
> >murder them.
> >
> >Also, here in the US, the other automakers aren't really trying, so the
> >competition is feeble.
> >
> >FWIW, in Europe, where other automakers ARE trying, VW is hot on Tesla's
> >heels in sales.  They were less than 1% behind them for 2021.  If you
> count
> >Skoda EV sales, VW bested Tesla by 26%. It will be very interesting to see
> >how 2022 shakes out there.
> >
> >Sorry, I've wandered off topic here.  My point is that there's no mystery
> at
> >all about the negative attitudes toward Tesla and Elon Musk.  They're
> caused
> >by Tesla and Elon Musk.
> >
> >David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> >
> >To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> >offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> >
> >= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >  I found one day in school a boy of medium size ill-treating
> >  a smaller boy. I expostulated, but he replied: 

Re: [EVDL] Cost of PV EV charging

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

My local electric coop (SLEMCO) has quit taking any more customers who have
solar panels and want to have a net meter. We are grandfathered in for 10
years, and then our net meter goes away. SLEMCO did not say what happens to
those who were grandfathered for 10 years. We don’t worry about that
because we plan to be off-grid before then.
Bobby Keeland
Arnaudville, Louisiana

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 4:51 PM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> > While the Volt won't be able to support more than approx 1kw,
> > that's enough to support my critical loads (fridge, freezer, .
> > minisplit heat pump) plus a few lights, etc.
>
> Turns out the DC/DC converter in the VOlt is over 200 amps at
> 12 volts so it can support almost 2 kW.  Compared to the typical
> 100 amps or so from most hybrids.  Though the Volt also draws
> more overhead,  II think 500W.
>
> Bob
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 4:53 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV
>  wrote:
> > >> A couple years after that my 'grandfathered' status runs out and I'll
> be switched to their new
> > >> 'solar customer' rates, at that point it will cost me over $800 a
> year just for the privilege of
> > >> being connected to the grid. iI figure it will be cheaper to buy some
> used EV batteries and
> > >> disconnect, which is what I plan to do.
> > >
> > > Of course I do not fully understand your situation. But it appears you
> > > may have your PV paid for with the years of $.186 valued energy? The
> >
> > My solar array paid for itself years ago, took a little over 5 years to
> break even.
> >
> > > $800/year surcharge overshadow the value of your production in the
> netmetering.
> >
> > Under the new rate schedule, I will have to pay approx $60 a month in
> connection fees and taxes,
> > plus they will no longer do 1:1 > stability of a grid connection is not
> to be taken lightly. Will
> > the
> >
> > Instead, I will have to pay retail for every kwh I pull from the grid
> and they will pay me "export
> > rate" for every kwh I push to the grid, this is on an instantaneous
> basis, not trued up annually.
> > The Export rate is higher than what I get now (~about 5 cents currently)
> and the solar customer
> > retail rate drops to 8 cents per kWh, but that still means I have to pay
> 3 cents per kwh to use the
> > grid as storage.
> >
> > By doing some smart energy management-- only charging the EVs, running
> the dryer, etc. when I have
> > surplus solar -- I could potentially keep the bill down to around $800
> annually.
> > However, I figure it will cost me around $0.50 per day to bank power,
> that plus the connection fees
> > and taxes mean I will probably end up paying over $900 a year.
> >
> > I keep meaning to write a program to use my energy monitoring system to
> calculate my actual costs,
> > just haven't gotten around to it yet.
> >
> > >The stability of a grid connection is not to be taken lightly.
> >
> > I'm already building a second off-grid EV charging station, when I
> disconnect from the grid I will
> > buy a second inverter and set of batteries for my existing array, so I
> will have two totally redundant off-grid power
> > setups.
> >
> > I also have the Volt. The ability to use it as an emergency backup power
> source was one of the
> > reasons I choose it. While the Volt won't be able to support more than
> approx 1kw, that's enough to
> > support my critical loads (fridge, freezer, minisplit heat pump) plus a
> few lights, etc.
> >
> > I'm also planning on buying one of the EV pickups that should be
> available in the next couple
> > years. That will give me a much more capable backup power system
> >
> > With 3-4 independant power systems, grid stability is a non-issue. Not
> that the grid in my area is
> > supper stable. We have had at least 4 minor power outages this summer
> and we typically have a major
> > outage (8+ hours) once every 5 years or so.
> > ___
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Re: [EVDL] hydrogen isn't green, after all

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I found it very interesting when one person who was being interviewed
talked about an advance of FCEVs over BEVs was when refueling at night when
the sun is not and “when the wind is not blowing.” I’ve lived in 10
different states and visited all 50 states. It is clear that wind blows
both during the night and day. I guess that when an investigation/report is
sponsored by Toyota the info presented favors Toyota as much as possible.
The lady also failed to truly list the pollution caused by the predominate
source of hydrogen for the fuel cell. From what I have read many times over
the past few years the majority of hydrogen for fuel cells comes from
natural gas. That natural gas is probably extracted from the earth via
fracking which is most certainly not earth or people friendly.

Bobby Keeland

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:08 AM Willie via EV  wrote:

>
> On 8/23/21 6:09 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> > Mark, I'd still like to read YOUR responses to the questions posted here,
> > especially to my own questions.
> Ditto.  Though I have posted no specific questions.  But the primary
> question seems to remain unanswered: "Why might a car buyer select a
> FCEV over a BEV?"
> >
> >
> > That said, thanks for posting that video clip.
> >
> >
> > But that's just technical griping.  To get to the info, the presenter
> made a
> > point that I hadn't thought much about - increasing range on an FCEV is
> less
> > likely to add significant weight than it would on a BEV.
> >
> > She seems to think that that matters more for trucks than cars.  I'd say
> > that the opposite is true.  When you consider battery weight as a
> percentage
> > of a  truck's payload,  more might not be that big a deal.
> Thanks for the interpretation of the video.  I am generally not willing
> to expend expensive bandwidth to view videos.
> >
> > She points out that FCEVs fuel faster.  She says 5 minutes for FCEVs;
> > elsewhere I've read 8 minutes.  However, as superchargers hit 300kW, the
> > difference is narrowing.
>
> An anecdote:  I recently charged at one of the new 250kw SuperChargers
> and was impressed.  Though I did not measure total charge time, I did
> notice that it started at about 240kw and by the time it had tapered to
> 200kw, I had added more than 100 miles of range.  I needed more than
> that 100 miles so spent a total of approximately 20 minutes charging.
> In our area, 150kw chargers are far more common where 30 minute charge
> times are typical. 150kw chargers typically peak at 140-145kw and
> quickly taper.  I do not see real significance in the difference.  When
> on the road, I spend almost no time waiting for a charge.  Getting
> coffee and taking head breaks uses most of the charge time.  We've
> mentioned it MANY times but most, by far, charging takes NO time since
> it is done at night at homes.
>
> Tesla is behind in charging times since all Tesla batteries are ~400
> volts and can not take advantage of 800 volt chargers. Though I have
> never actually seen a 800 volt charger.  Quick charging is mostly a
> concern of those who do no yet have Teslas.
>
> In pondering what attraction a FCEV might have over a BEV, I hit upon an
> extremely minor one.  BEVs do not shed mass as they are driven, while
> FCEVs do.  So, FCEVs should see a very slight rise in efficiency as they
> expend their fuel while BEVs do not.  I am NOT claiming that it should
> be a consideration when making buying decisions.  But, since we are
> grasping for straws, it is SOMETHING.
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Thin Film Storage of H2 at Lower pressures PLASMA KENETICS

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Mark,
   I would appreciate it if you would please provide references for the
information that you provide, like “”dirty methane” is used less and less.”
Also for “ It’s been several years already that the industry set 2030 as a
goal for 100% decarbonized hydrogen. In California, we are already almost
there.”
   I’m a research scientist who writes articles for professional journals.
We like references that back up what we are talking about.
Bobby Keeland, PhD
Research Science

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 10:11 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

> Well, what he is proposing in that video is just a means of storage, and
> appears to have nothing to do with how it is produced or what you produce
> it with.
>
> As far as production of hydrogen is concerned, “dirty methane” is used
> less and less. It’s been several years already that the industry set 2030
> as a goal for 100% decarbonized hydrogen. In California, we are already
> almost there.
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Aug 15, 2021, at 1:59 PM, Steven Lough via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > This may have been talked about here already,  but it is the first for
> me where I am not discarding the whole notion of Fool Cells, as I am so
> used to calling them.
> >
> > Seems to still be rather complicated.  But it is using electralizers in
> stead of dirty methane.
> >
> > ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brEm4mEizns&t=963s )
> >
> > Will be interested in all comments.
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla Y Spare Tire location ?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

We bought a Tesla model 3 in May of 2019. Of course it did not have a spare
and we really did not worry about it. About a year ago I noticed that the
rear drivers side tire was low. There was a triangular piece of metal,
about 1/16th inch thick, stuck into the tread if the tire. It seemed to me
to be very unusual that a flat piece of metal could become imbedded in the
tire just by running over it. The metal would have needed to be stood on
one side?? I suspected that some “Tesla Hater” had placed it against my
tire while the car was in a big box store parking lot. As I drove away the
metal could have punctured the tire. Danny’s Tire World in Opelousas
repaired the tire. They even re-glued the sound deadening foam strip back
down within the tire.
I called the NOLA service Center and ordered a new rim and tire. We live
too far from NOLA to rely on any type of roadside service. I bought a low
profile jack and a lug wrench from an auto parts store, and some items to
cushion the jack against the bottom of the car (using the OEM holes on each
side) from EV Annex. I also carry a torque wench so that I can be sure that
the lugs are sufficiently tight. The jack, lug wrench, cushion pads and
torque wrench are stored in the frunk. The spare tire is in the back,
taking up space, but the rear seats can still be set up for use.
A Model Y should have more room to carry the spare. We may upgrade to a
model Y at some point.
Bobby Keeland
Arnaudville, LA

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 6:46 PM Mark Hanson via EV 
wrote:

> Hi
> I bought a model Y spare from Modern Spare on Amazon with jack/tools and
> was curious if anyone has a clever location to mount the spare tire other
> than the roof...   currently it’s just sliding around in the back like the
> Leaf and Bolt.
> Best regards
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
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[EVDL] Solar Panels on EV

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

This is sort of about solar panels on an EV. We often travel by RV, and tow
a half ton Dodge RAM pickup behind the RV. I’ve thought about pulling a
trailer upon which we will have our Tesla M3 instead of towing the RAM.  If
I install solar panels on the trailer it will shade the M3 and charge it
while we drive down the road. The RV already has solar panels so we can
boondock and have both the RV and the M3 powered up. When the M3 has
reached the desired level of charge (about 80-85 % SOC to preserve M3
battery life) output from the solar panels on the trailer can supplement
the solar panels on the RV allowing a longer period of Boondocking.
Bobby Keeland
Southern Louisiana
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Re: [EVDL] Fwd: Tesla Y

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Actually the foam in a Tesla car looks kind of like an inch (or so) thick
piece of relatively ridged foam, the same width as the tread and all around
the inner part of the tire. When I had a flat repaired on our M3 they cut
the foam that covered the hole, smoothed the inner part of the tire,
installed a patch and then glued the foam back over the patch. I did not
need to ask the people to replace the foam material. The patch has been
holding for about eight months.
We now carry a “dirty” spare, a small jack and a lug wrench.  I also keep
my torque wrench in the car. You have to keep it somewhere.
Bobby Keeland
Louisiana

On Mon, Mar 22, 2021 at 11:11 AM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Can you explain a bit more ? What kind of foam - something that prevents
> the tire from completely collapsing ? Surely it's the air pressure which
> normally keeps the tire stiff. And does "noticed any difference in the
> ride" refer to a new tire without foam ? Why didn't they inject the
> foam, if that's the way it's supposed to be ?
>
> Peri
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "paul dove via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "paul dove" 
> Sent: 22-Mar-21 8:43:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fwd: Tesla Y
>
> >  The Tesla tires are filled with foam. I got a nail and they said it was
> too close to the edge to fix but the replacement tire was readily available
> only they don't come with the foam. I haven't noticed any difference in the
> ride.
> >
> > On Monday, March 22, 2021, 9:33:59 AM CDT, Steves via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> >
> >  Remember that the Bolt also doesn’t have a spare. Remember too that EVs
> don’t always use readily available tires, so if you get a flat, you could
> be stuck for a few days waiting on tire delivery. Yes, they (Chevy anyway)
> give you an inflator and something like fix-a-flat but it’s useless on some
> punctures and gums up the inside of the rim - it will piss off the tire
> changer. My wife hit road debris in the bolt and holed the sidewall.
> Luckily she made it home and it went flat overnight. Sidewall puncture, so
> new tire, which took several days to get.
> >
> >I added a spare to my Volt as that is our long trip car. Luckily haven’t
> had to deploy it yet.
> >
> >-Steve
> >
> >>  On Mar 22, 2021, at 8:47 AM, Mark Hanson via EV 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>  Hi Folks
> >>  Ben My son and I rode up to Tyson’s Corner off the dc beltway 225
> miles in the Bolt EV, stopped at a fast charger Woodstock va for insurance
> at Walmart Subway for lunch.  The Bolt is 260 miles if not using the
> heater, about 225 if using.  The Tesla Y at 316 miles made it the 225 miles
> without stopping but was thirsty for electrons when I got home.  All the
> controls are in weird places or through menus on the touch screen. They
> didn’t copy any conventional auto layout of controls.  The only thing
> that’s in the normal spot is the horn.  $50k turned into $55k after $1k for
> paint (luckily didn’t charge extra for the steering wheel), $1.2k for
> documentation (I guess that was the email they sent to pick it up) and $2k
> for sales tax.  It was like the 3 stooges with kids just out of high school
> doing everything and making it up as they went.  Got there at 1:30 and out
> at 4pm, took awhile to find my car.  Ben said isn’t it the blue one on top
> of that tractor trailer from Fremont Cal?  They said oh no, it’s in the
> back of the garage somewhere.  After waiting another 1/2 hour, they quietly
> unloaded it off the top of the truck , forgot to put the front tag on it or
> the inspection sticker.  I found the tag in the trunk by the missing spare
> tire (spares are optional now unless you get a flat). The tag just had
> double sided sticky tape to stick on the front plastic bumper.  No
> explanation on how to operate The vehicle and the users manual in the glove
> box (after I found how to open it on the menu screen) was worthless, how to
> fasten seatbelt nonsense.
> >>  For dealer experience and ease of use controls , Tesla gets a F and
> Chevy Bolt gets an A.
> >>  Best regards
> >>  Mark
> >>
> >>  ___
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Re: [EVDL] Projects

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I have no idea of how much it cost to drill a 100 ft or more well through
clay soil. I do agree that a vertical pipe would probably be more effective
than a horizontal pipe. We had a water well drilled in southwest Missouri
some years ago. With casing but no pump that was $8,000. The ground in the
area of Table Rock Lake is limestone with a LOT of gravel near the “soil”
surface. Hand digging a hole for fence posts using a post hole digger was
very difficult.

That brings up another unfinished project on Radiant floor heating. Start
with a solar water heater as shown in an area of Builditsolar.
It is my understanding that heat does not travel at all quickly through pex
so the pex should be good for the distance from the solar water heater to
the hot water storage tank.

Run pex/pipe insulation/larger diameter pvc pipe underground to a large and
well insulated water storage tank. Within the tank run the heated water
through a large coil of copper pipe. That heats the potable water that then
runs to an on-demand electric water heater (in case water in the tank is
not hot enough) and then to faucets and then through piping under the
floor.

Bobby Keeland
Originally from northwest Arkansas but now in southern Louisiana

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 11:41 AM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Another thought, which might be more effective, is to drill vertically
> and insert a loop of small diameter pipe. For example, you could drill
> several 1.5" bores down 200 or 300 feet and insert a loop of 1/2" pex.
> I'm not sure how much drilling costs, but I know people are
> experimenting with this technique, particularly for use in urban areas.
>
> On advantage of deep bores is you'll hit water tables which will make a
> better heat sync both in the sense of better contact with the tubing and
> more mass for dissipation.
>
> Peri
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Bobby Keeland via EV" 
> To: "Peter VanDerWal" 
> Cc: "Bobby Keeland" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
> List" 
> Sent: 21-Mar-21 9:31:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Projects
>
> >Yes Peter VanDerWal (thanks for the reply) I am aware of all that you
> said.
> >I was planning on using at least 4 smooth wall tubes that are buried about
> >10 feet deep with a downward slope away from the house. The earth tubes
> >will be about 100 feet long, and the soil here is almost pure clay
> >(southern Louisiana in the Atchafalaya Basin).
> >
> >A little over a year ago we had a heat source mini-split installed so we
> >got a jump on being more efficient. The earth tube project has not
> actually
> >physically started yet. It’s more of a thinking and study real life
> >experiences at this point.
> >
> >Right now I’m more interested in working on the 1951 Chevy pickup (we
> >actually use pickups as pickups rather than as a manly car). There is a
> guy
> >on YouTube who is showing his complete process of moving a 1952 Chevy
> >pickup onto an S-10 pickup frame. Something like that plus an electric
> >motor and batteries (not lead acid) is what I have in mind.
> >
> >Another possible project is converting a riding lawn mower and Mantis
> >tiller to battery electric. I watch Jehu Garcia a lot. There is never a
> >shortage of possible projects.
> >
> >Bobby Keeland
> >Not a lot of money, but I do have time and interest.
> >
> >
> >On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 11:52 PM Peter VanDerWal 
> wrote:
> >
> >>  Bobby, have you done any research on Earth Tubes?  Not just looking up
> >>  testimonials and anecdotes, but looked for actual studies?
> >>
> >>  I was really yped about earth tubes for a while until I looked into
> them
> >>  and found a few studies.  I found a lot of people claiming that all
> they
> >>  did was dig 2 foot deep trenchs and burried 30 feet of tube and 'Wow,
> what
> >>  a difference'
> >>  But the actual studies with measurements, etc. tell a different story.
> >>
> >>  First of all you need to go a LOT deeper than 2 feeet, 6-8 foot
> minimum.
> >>  One study I found was done in India as I recall, they were studying
> using
> >>  Earth Tubes to cool a green house.
> >>  They used 4 tubes 100 feet long, 8 foot deep spaced 6 feet apart. The
> fan
> >>  used to drive the air through them consumed 400-450 watts and ran 24
> hours
> >>  a day.  It was effective at the begining of summer, but by the middle
> of
> >>  summer the output air temps had climbed to around 80 degrees, the green
> >>  house temps were closer

Re: [EVDL] Projects

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Yes Peter VanDerWal (thanks for the reply) I am aware of all that you said.
I was planning on using at least 4 smooth wall tubes that are buried about
10 feet deep with a downward slope away from the house. The earth tubes
will be about 100 feet long, and the soil here is almost pure clay
(southern Louisiana in the Atchafalaya Basin).

A little over a year ago we had a heat source mini-split installed so we
got a jump on being more efficient. The earth tube project has not actually
physically started yet. It’s more of a thinking and study real life
experiences at this point.

Right now I’m more interested in working on the 1951 Chevy pickup (we
actually use pickups as pickups rather than as a manly car). There is a guy
on YouTube who is showing his complete process of moving a 1952 Chevy
pickup onto an S-10 pickup frame. Something like that plus an electric
motor and batteries (not lead acid) is what I have in mind.

Another possible project is converting a riding lawn mower and Mantis
tiller to battery electric. I watch Jehu Garcia a lot. There is never a
shortage of possible projects.

Bobby Keeland
Not a lot of money, but I do have time and interest.


On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 11:52 PM Peter VanDerWal  wrote:

> Bobby, have you done any research on Earth Tubes?  Not just looking up
> testimonials and anecdotes, but looked for actual studies?
>
> I was really yped about earth tubes for a while until I looked into them
> and found a few studies.  I found a lot of people claiming that all they
> did was dig 2 foot deep trenchs and burried 30 feet of tube and 'Wow, what
> a difference'
> But the actual studies with measurements, etc. tell a different story.
>
> First of all you need to go a LOT deeper than 2 feeet, 6-8 foot minimum.
> One study I found was done in India as I recall, they were studying using
> Earth Tubes to cool a green house.
> They used 4 tubes 100 feet long, 8 foot deep spaced 6 feet apart. The fan
> used to drive the air through them consumed 400-450 watts and ran 24 hours
> a day.  It was effective at the begining of summer, but by the middle of
> summer the output air temps had climbed to around 80 degrees, the green
> house temps were closer to 90 degrees.
>
> I also read lots of feedback from individuals that were having problems
> with mold due to condensation in the earth tubes.  That is solvable, by
> making sure the tubes angle down, away from the house and you have some way
> to drain the moisture from them.
>
> My mini-split heat pump on the other hand uses about 1/2 the energy per
> day to cool my house and output air temp is around 50-60 degrees an the
> temp in the house stays below 76.  I could get it cooler, but it would use
> more energy and I'm comfortable at that temp.
>
> So the mini-split is more effective, for less energy and a LOT less work
> to install.  If you have to hire someone to dig the trenches, the
> mini-split is probably cheaper.
>
> Sometimes the best solution is NOT the simplest solution.
>
> My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key
>
> March 19, 2021 6:05 PM, "Bobby Keeland via EV"  wrote:
>
> > In a previous posting I said:
> >  >  >  >  >
>
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Re: [EVDL] Took the Tesla Y plunge, no more Fossil Fools - Now Solar

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Interesting information in this thread. When we first had solar panels
installed back in 2014 we did not have a net metering. So for a few days we
paid retail for energy that we got from the utility (SLEMCO) and paid
retail for all electricity that went to the grid. Net metering was so very
much better. When we overproduced electricity it was banked, but we were
not paid for it. Instead when we needed more electricity than we produced
we paid nearly full retail price.

As of January 1, 2020 no customers were allowed to get net metering. Those
of us who already had net metering were grandfathered in for a few years.
When the grandfathering runs out I guess that we will have to pay in order
to give our excess electricity to SLEMCO. I also consider that the
electricity that we get from SLEMCO is generated using:
Natural gas - probably from fracking
Coal - all coal begins at some level of dirty
Nuclear - no matter what proponents of nuclear there is always spent fuel
that takes many centuries to be “safe.”

My solar panels and inverters added some pollution when they were made and
again when they no longer work well, but in between there are no fumes or
spent reactor rods to deal with. We recently added some LiFePO4 batteries.
Yes, they were not cheap, and in whatever time is left in my life I may not
recover the cost. But I will not be adding a lot of pollution that my
grandchildren (and your grandchildren) will have to deal with. Yes, I am a
fan of the young lady from Sweden, Greta Thunberg.
Bobby Keeland
Louisiana

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 10:30 AM Jay Summet via EV 
wrote:

> Charge up a 100 kWh EV at the 0.3 kWh site in the day, drive it to the
> other site and discharge it at night?
>
> Jay
>
> On 3/21/21 11:28 AM, Willie via EV wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 3/21/21 10:18 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:
> >
> >> Hmm... If you're on good terms with your neighbor, you could run a
> >> wire between houses and sell your excess power to him in the summer,
> >> and he could reimburse you in the winter.
> >
> > That highlights a problem I have long considered but not found a viable
> > solution to.  I have one meter where my excess production is worth
> > $.03/kwh and another where it is worth $.06.  Unfortunately, the
> > separation is about 1/3 mile.  I would love to have the $.03 energy
> > available to use (or sell) on my $.06 meter.  A neighbor suggested a
> > pair of high voltage transformers but I doubt the practicality.  And I
> > doubt I could afford the wire size necessary to do a few kw over that
> > distance.  My $.03 production is limited by my utility to about 15kw by
> > the utility's transformer.
> >
> > ___
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[EVDL] Projects

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

In a previous posting I said:
http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20210319/15ea2a37/attachment.html>
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Re: [EVDL] Took the Tesla Y plunge, no more Fossil Fools in our house

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Mark said “I’m also building a Tesla Coil that throws 5’ lightning bolts.”

Have you read the book “The Seventh Plague” written by James Rollins? In
that book there is an extensive part about a guy that wants to generate
power for everyone by building a giant Tesla Coil. The Tesla Coil did not
work in that book. I also have thought about building a Tesla Coil, but I
also want to build a trebuchet. Unfortunately I’m still working on my solar
water heater, my battery backup for the solar panels, earth tubes and many
other projects. Retired does not mean having nothing to do ...
Bob Keeland

On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 10:54 AM paul dove via EV  wrote:

> No parking brake. It has a break paw in the gear box that engages when in
> park.
>
>
> Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, March 19, 2021, 9:32 AM, Mark Hanson via EV 
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Folks for helping me make my decision. The Ford Escape PHEV seems
> like it’s made of Unobtanium anyway (factory Covid shutdowns,layoffs).
> Maybe there’s a reason Ford’s stock remains in the single digits and Tesla
> $300+.  I’ll pick up the Blue Tesla Y Saturday In Richmond, since I’m 65,
> paid from my IRA so no payments $52k, 4 wheel drive 316 mile range.  We’re
> no longer fossil fools now with a Leaf, Bolt and a Tesla. I’m also building
> a Tesla Coil that throws 5’ lightning bolts, 6.0 kit from Eastern voltage
> research.com.
> The Tesla Y looks like it has a steep learning curve compared to the Bolt.
> Had to sign up last night for a Tesla account and download an app on my
> iPhone to access the car. It looks like you’re Information tracked For
> charging convenience (automatically charges credit card without using at
> supercharger stations).  The controls are not in the usual places and a lot
> is done through the laptop size touchscreen.  Probably why you don’t see
> them as Hertz etc rentals. I’ll have to dig into the wire harness to set up
> a trailer hitch from Etrailers.com To tow the boat.  Say where’s the
> parking brake to set when I launch the ski boat at the boat ramp?  It would
> be a bummer to submerge a $52k car.
> One big reason for buying the Tesla Y is the self driving capability as we
> get older and decrepit, so we don’t get kicked out of our house to an old
> fart home like the nieghbors did when they couldn’t drive.  Of course
> you’ll still have to have the cognition to operate this fancy car...
> Have a renewable energy day
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] Bad Dealers (EV acceptance training)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

 In 2008 I was in a car crash where someone ran into the back of my car
when I was turning into my driveway. While I was in the hospital my wife
looked for a replacement car. We had talked about getting a Toyota Prius
like our son had. Not one could be found at a Toyota dealership anywhere
near where we lived, so my wife looked for other hybrids. The salesman at
the nearby Ford dealership spent most of his time telling my wife that
hybrids do not work in the south. He tried to sell her an ICE Explorer.

 Much later, in about 2015, as a member of an electric car club
(wannabe owner) I visited most of the legacy car dealerships in our area.
None had any hybrid or electric vehicles, nor were their salesmen at all
knowledge about EVs. Also, there were no women sales persons. So we waited
until Tesla offered the low price Model 3 and finally got a standard range
Tesla in May 2019.

 Obviously the dealerships in our area did (do) not want to sell a
vehicle on which they do not make a lot of profit on service. To a very
large extent the car manufacturer do not want to make EVs, but to a large
extent the main problem with selling EVs is the dealerships.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 12:07 PM Willie via EV  wrote:

>
>
> On 2/8/21 11:00 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> > Regarding lack of EV promotion by dealers, the business model will have
> > to change. Everyone knows they make most (all ?) their money from
> > service. Naturally, they are going to promote vehicles that bring them
> > the highest level of service income, balanced somehow with selling
> > something that consumers want.
>
> Yes.  Dealers attempt to sell you what they want to sell.  VERY
> irritating and I would much rather not fool with a dealer at all.
> Essentially all auto advertising I find, at best, not informative.  At
> worst, highly irritating and insulting.
>
> IMHO, Tesla is doing it exactly right.
>
> We see legacies advertising that they've turned over a new leaf.  Or,
> that they have been pro-EV all along.  GM studiously ignores their
> history of suppressing EVs.  They deserve the bankruptcy I think is in
> their futures.
>
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Re: [EVDL] list of tree hugger charging locations, charging signs

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I don’t know about any list, but a lot of us are indeed shown on the
PlugShare app.
Bobby Keeland

On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 6:49 AM fred via EV  wrote:

>  Digest pruned of many lines, remaining stuff is pertinent, subject line
> changed.
> I'm surprised it's taken this long for PlugShare to pop up in the
> discussion. I've been listed since our Xebra days (anyone remember that
> rolling disaster?) but that was 110v back then. 10Kw level 2, NEMA 6-50 and
> 110v now, powered by solar.
> Re: charging signs:
> I've visited the site and can't find dimensions nor a means to order. I
> have a laser cutter and can engrave Trotec acrylic (two color) which would
> look just like the signs on the web site, but it might be less expensive to
> buy an aluminum sign. Trotec prices are high and shipping kills the deal.
> If the aluminum signs are not available and there's enough demand, I can
> produce in quantity sufficient to justify the purchase, plus customize
> every sign as desired.
>
>
> Message: 2
> From: Dale Curren Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2035 GM will
> cease ICE production
>
> I want a list of these treehuggers who give out free charges.  Would be a
> fun challenge to get across the country on free electrons.
>
> Message: 6
> From: Lee Hart 
>
> You could certainly cross the northern part of the USA on free charging.
> In the northern parts, free public 120v outlets are everywhere. They
> were originally installed to plug in block heaters so people's ICEs
> would start in the winter.
>
> Most states also have building codes that require outdoor AC outlets.
> They get used for Christmas lights, lawn mowers, etc.
>
> It's polite to ask for permission to use them. But in all my years of
> driving EVs, I've almost never been turned down.
>
> Then of course, you could bring PV panels, and charge from the sun.
>
> Lee
>
> Message: 7From: "EVDL Administrator" On 1 Feb 2021 at
> 13:14, paul dove via EV wrote:
>
> > Every day in my Tesla Model S!
>
> You give out free charges in your Tesla?  Presumably to other EVers, yes?
>
> That's a great idea - helping folks who might otherwise be stranded.
>
> How do you do that?  Is the charging port bi-directional?
>
> Can you charge any other EV, or just Teslas?
>
> If just Teslas, any Tesla, or just another model S?
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 8
> From: Jay Summet 
>
> The PlugShare App & Website lists a lot of them. (There are a lot of
> cities and businesses that put in no-charge EVSE's to attract
> businessor just because it's cheaper to give it away than pay the
> fees to maintain the accounting system to charge for it.)
>
> Jay
>
>
> Message: 2From: Robert Bruninga > but we try to do our
> part hoping that now is the time to put out
> > the sign planting a seed and hoping it will grow.
>
> Amen!
> THe EV Charging OUtlet sign is the most important part.  Not so much for
> the 1%R that might actually need a charge but for the other 99% to see
> everyday and subliminally realize theat EV's can chagfe almsotg anywhere.
> We have been quite successful in getting peo[ple to put up signs over their
> out door outlets:
>
> See http://aprs.org/EV-charging-signs.html
>
> Bob, WB4APR
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] keeping LeeH connected: How far ...

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

This series of messages names reminds me of the days before internet was
available. I was working as an ecologist for the Corps of Engineers in
Walla Walla, Washington. My supervisor was involved with a fish counting
program at the dams on the Columbia and Snake Rivers. Every Thursday he got
a fax of the number of fish (smolts- baby salmon) counted at each dam, he
then conducted an analysis and developed a report that he faxed to a
meeting in Portland, Oregon. That process took at least least five or six
hours each Thursday night.
My supervisor's supervisor learned that I had taken computer programming in
college so he asked if I could write a program to work up the fish data.
Not at all being a fan of computers my supervisor thought it would be a
waste of time. Rather than using basic I decided to use a program called
dBase 3. Another program that I used was Cross Talk to download the fish
data from each dam. It took me a while to get Cross Talk to work. After the
data was downloaded the program sent the required report to the printer
within 10 minutes.
I bought my first desktop in 1986. It had two floppy disk drives and no
hard drive. Oh how things have changed.
Bob Keeland

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020, 6:28 AM Paul Compton via EV  wrote:

> As well as the windows machines, I have Linux Lite installed on a Dell
> Latitude E6400 from about 2008. Easy installation, the only manual
> intervention was finding the WiFi driver.
>
> Youtube works just fine. Or at least as well as YT ever works on anything.
>
> On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 07:07, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> >
> > evln via EV wrote:
> > > There are ways around not having a strong internet connecion
> > > to view youtube videos.
> > >
> > > You could use
> > > https://x2convert.com
> > >   to convert the streaming video's audio to a .mp3 file you could
> > > download and listen to.
> > >
> > > If I remember correctly, years ago, Lee held bragging-rights to
> > > having his internet access via an old 486 pc on outdated operating
> > > system and outdated browsers.
> >
> > Yep; guilty as charged. :-) All I had was dial-up, and my old Prodigy
> > email program was still pretty fast because it didn't load any of the
> > bloat. But it's long-gone. Any poor soul that tries to use dial-up on
> > the modern internet is doomed!
> >
> > > I would have hoped by now that situation had changed when more
> up-to-date
> > > PCs...
> >
> > The PC itself isn't so much the problem. My current PC is an HP 6000
> > Pro, which isn't all that old. The problem is that I have a DSL line,
> > which averages 100-200k b/sec. Fine for email, slow for bloated web
> > pages, and terrible for video.
> >
> > Also, I hate Windows, and so am using linux. For whatever reason,
> > Youtube refuses to work with any of my linux browsers. The error
> > messages say it needs HTML5; but my browsers work fine with HTML5 files
> > from any other source.
> >
> > > Like Peppermnt
> > > https://www.google.com/search?q=peppermint+linux
> > >   or linux mint (or others)
> > > https://www.google.com/search?q=linux+mint
> >
> > I'm running Puppy linux. I've tried a few others, but got lost in
> > "configuration hell". They might be fine for a linux expert, but I'm a
> > rank amateur.
> >
> > > I had to upgrade to a new android 9 smartphone...
> >
> > To show what a luddite I am, I don't *have* a smartphone! For one thing,
> > the text is too hard to read for my tired old eyes. For another, my fat
> > old fingers can't type on the tiny keyboards. I've tried a tablet, but
> > even that's too small. (I'm reading this on a 17" monitor set to
> 1024x768).
> >
> > Also I don't have cable, and don't watch TV, and don't play video games.
> > And no facebook, no twitter... I don't use *any* social media at all.
> >
> > > Perhaps if Lee had one of these with a weeks worth of
> > > video url links stored on it, when he goes out to do his
> > > weekly shopping, he could stop off at a wifi site parking
> > > lot and (legally) mooch some free internet to stream &
> > > watch videos like everyone else?
> >
> > Folks must think I lead a life of desperation without all the modern
> > (in)convenieces of being totally addicted to a smartphone and endlessly
> > immersed in the online world. Quite the contrary; I enjoy the real world
> > a lot more than the online world! I have real friends that I actually
> > see in person, and real hobbies where I build stuff that has nothing to
> > do with computers.
> >
> > The more time I spend online, the LESS I get done!
> >
> > Lee Hart
> >
> > --
> > A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
> > nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
> >  -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
> > --
> > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> > ___
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: $40k Nissan Ariya fwd .jp EV r:300mi

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

It is interesting. I never thought about whether Tesla took the software
limited part of the charge from the top or the bottom of the battery pack.
I'm sure glad that I normally charge to only 85% and rarely take the
battery pack below 30%.
BobK

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 11:58 AM Willie via EV  wrote:

>
> On 7/22/20 12:21 PM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
> > On Wed Jul 22 08:33:19 PDT 2020 dov...@bellsouth.net said:
> >> At any rate Tesla doesn't let you use the whole battery anyway even at
> 100% charged it is not because they gave people temporary range increases
> during the Florida Hurricane.
> > Did they need to do more charging to get that extra range?  or if their
> car was already fully charged, did it just have extra range?
> > The former means the reduced range is the bottom of the pack, the latter
> means it's the top.
>
> I haven't used a car with a software limited battery but, as I
> understand, the battery is just not allowed to fully charge.  One
> benefit, observed and reported by many, is that SuperCharging goes MUCH
> faster near the top.  With a not limited battery, one rarely has the
> patience to fully charge at a SuperCharger because it tapers to just a
> few kw near the top.  A second touted benefit of limited batteries is
> that they have longer life.
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: $40k Nissan Ariya fwd .jp EV r:300mi

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

We ordered a standard range battery and black exterior paint. Any other
paint color was an additional $1,000. What we received was a standard range
plus that had an additional 20 miles of range. In addition we had autopilot
and a premium audio system. After a few months Tesla sent a message to me
stating that if I wanted to keep standard range plus, autopilot and premium
radio then we should pay an additional $4,500. We did not pay the extra
Money and at the end of that month all of the "extra" stuff went away.
We charge at home and 220 miles of range is just fine. On longer trips to
New Orleans we stop at a supercharger in Baton Rouge. On trips to Houston
we stop at superchargers in Lake Charles, Louisiana and Channelview, Texas,
both on the way to Houston and again on the way back. I have used the
navigation tool on the flat screen to plot trips to Wimberley, Texas (just
SW of Austin), Springfield, Missouri, Alden, Michigan (north of Traverse
City) and Seattle, Washington. With standard range we can use superchargers
for all of those trips except perhaps the one to Springfield, Missouri. For
the trip to Springfield there is a destination supercharger that we may be
able to use. If not then we can use the Plug Share app on my phone to use a
slower charger in Branson, Missouri.
At one time we did stop at the Acadiana Nature Center (Lafayette,
Louisiana) where they have RV sites. We could not charge at home because
the electricity was out at home. I asked the guy who was working at the
Nature Center if we could rent s 50 circuit to recharge our battery powered
electric car. He had never heard about anyone doing that, but sent to a 50
outlet and did not charge us anything. We are quite satisfied with our 220
mile range battery. Because the battery pack actually has a range of 240
miles, but is software limited we never have charged it to 100%.
Bob Keeland & Joy Young

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 3:39 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 21 Jul 2020 at 15:11, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote:
>
> > We bought our Tesla Model 3 for $35,000. It was ordered on March 30,
> 2016 and
> > received on May, 2019.
>
> Interesting!  That's a much more reasonable price, and a decent value for
> anyone who's OK with a mid-size sedan.
>
> What's your range, if you don't mine me asking?
>
> Looking again, I see that Edmunds have the "mid range" model as the $44k
> one.  So presumably there's a "short range" model too that they don't list.
>
> But it also says that the 44k one is discontinued!  So according to that
> page only the "long range AWD" and "performance AWD" models at $47,990 and
> $56,990 respectively are still available.  To me that seems like a a
> mightly
> long haul from an affordable car.
>
> https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2019/features-specs/
>
> Something strange is going on here ...
>
> I clicked on "See Model 3 inventory" and saw only used ones.  The cheapest
> is a 2019 "standard range plus" (whatever that means) with 24k+ miles.
> They're asking $34,980!  Ehhh, no thanks.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in
> common: they don't alter their views to fit the facts. They
> alter the facts to fit their views.  This can be uncomfortable
> if you happen to be one of the facts that need altering.
>
>  -- Doctor Who, "The Face of Evil"
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: $40k Nissan Ariya fwd .jp EV r:300mi

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

We ordered a standard range battery and black exterior paint. The long
range battery pack was $9,000 extra and any other paint color was an
additional $1,000. What we received was a standard range plus that had an
additional 20 miles of range. In addition we had autopilot and a premium
audio system. After a few months Tesla sent a message to me stating that if
I wanted to keep standard range plus, autopilot and premium radio then we
should pay an additional $4,500. We did not pay the extra money and all of
the extra stuff disappeared. Now I realize that the battery pack in our M3
is a bit bigger than a real standard range even though we software limited
from using that extra range. If I charge the battery pack to 100% I am
really only charging the pack to 91.6%. I charge the battery pack to 85% so
I think/hope that the battery pack will last longer than I do. At 67 years
old I really don't need a million mile battery. I am however happy that
they are working on a battery that will last many years before needing to
be replaced. My grandkids really like the Tesla. As our grandson was
driving the M3 you could certainly see the Tesla Smile.
Standard range (220 miles) is fine for us. We charge at home 99% of the
time. New Orleans does not have a supercharger (SC) so when we go there we
stop at the SC in Baton Rouge to charge close to 100%. On the way home we
again charge at the SC in Baton Rouge. For a trip to Houston, Texas we stop
the SC in Lake Charles, Louisiana (next to a Sonic fast food) and then we
stop at a Hotel in Channelview, Texas. I assume that the Channelview SC was
a destination charger because there is "NOTHING" except for the hotel
there, and getting into the hotel parking lot from I-10 is a pain. But the
SC worked just fine for us, and we ate in the Hotel restaurant while the
battery pack charged. Anyway that gets us to downtown Houston and easily
back to the Hotel SC where we charge again. Another stop in Lake Charles to
use the SC and then on to home. None of the stops at the Tesla SCs took any
more than 20 minutes.
I have used the Tesla Navigation program to plot trips to visit family and
friends in Wimberly, Texas, Springfield, Missouri, Alden, Michigan and
Seattle, Washington. Service chargers were available on all trips with the
possible exception of the trip to Springfield, Missouri. On that trip there
is a destination SC near Branson, Missouri that we may be able to use. If
not then I use Plug Share on my phone to find a place to charge. Our house
is listed on Plug Share with 240 volt charging. No one has ever contacted
us needing a charge.
The 220 range of our car has been just fine for us. Yes, a range of 310 (or
400) miles would be nice, but I don't see it as necessary. I think that
Tesla needs to spend much less time thinking about how fast one of their
cars can accelerate to 60 miles per hour, and consider how many additional
people can buy their cars if they release something that cost closer to
$25,000. When I was a dumb 18 year old high school graduate I really wanted
a Porsche 911. I did own a 1972 Datsun 240Z that was a VERY nice car. It
was not as fast as a Porsche, but it handled great. Now that I am 67 years
old I no longer care about going that fast. Our Model 3 is fast enough, and
in over one year of ownership I have never felt the need to floor the
accelerator.
Bob Keeland, PhD
Retired Research Ecologist

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 3:39 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 21 Jul 2020 at 15:11, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote:
>
> > We bought our Tesla Model 3 for $35,000. It was ordered on March 30,
> 2016 and
> > received on May, 2019.
>
> Interesting!  That's a much more reasonable price, and a decent value for
> anyone who's OK with a mid-size sedan.
>
> What's your range, if you don't mine me asking?
>
> Looking again, I see that Edmunds have the "mid range" model as the $44k
> one.  So presumably there's a "short range" model too that they don't list.
>
> But it also says that the 44k one is discontinued!  So according to that
> page only the "long range AWD" and "performance AWD" models at $47,990 and
> $56,990 respectively are still available.  To me that seems like a a
> mightly
> long haul from an affordable car.
>
> https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2019/features-specs/
>
> Something strange is going on here ...
>
> I clicked on "See Model 3 inventory" and saw only used ones.  The cheapest
> is a 2019 "standard range plus" (whatever that means) with 24k+ miles.
> They're asking $34,980!  Ehhh, no thanks.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: $40k Nissan Ariya fwd .jp EV r:300mi

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

We bought our Tesla Model 3 for $35,000. It was ordered on March 30, 2016
and received on May, 2019.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 12:33 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 21 Jul 2020 at 6:05, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
>
> > Only it's pretty much exactly the same size as a Chevy Bolt or a Hyundai
> Kona,
> > or a Tesla Model 3 for that matter.  It costs the same or slightly more
> than
> > those.
>
> Actually at about 182" long (my gauge of how easy a car is to park) it's
> quite a bit larger, and no doubt heavier, than either the Bolt or Kona.
> It's a full foot and a half longer!
>
> It's about 3" shorter than the Tesla 3.
>
> As for price, at an estimated $40k it's in the same general range but it's
> a
> somewhat wide range.
>
> The Bolt starts at $36,620 (8.5% less) and the Kona is $37,190, and
> remember
> these are much smaller cars.  Most buyers tend to perceive "larger" as
> "worth more."
>
> Despite what I've read many times here about a mid-30k Model 3, Edmunds
> list
> the cheapest model at $44k, so it's 10% more expensive.  It's probably a
> better value, as long as a mid-size sedan suits your needs.
>
> I still say we don't need more big, clunky, heavy $40k EVs, we need more
> agile little $25k ones.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>  I have three rules to live by. One, get your work done. If that
>  doesn't work, shut up and drink your gin. And when all else fails,
>  run like hell.
>
> -- Ray Bradbury
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Ego vs Greenworks?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

We have owned two MTD gas powered lawn mowers. One was a MTD push type. The
other was a Troy Built riding mower. Troy Built used to have an excellent
reputation, but the one that we bought was built after MTD bought Troy
Built.  The MTD brand was by far the worst mower that I have owned or had
experience with. The "new" Troy Built did not last more than a couple of
months so we took it back and got a refund. I think that MTD = made to die!

We have owned and used a gas powered Stihl chain saw for many years. It is
EXCELLENT! Almost a year ago we bought a Stihl electric chain saw. It was
not their most powerful electric chain saw as it seems to have been made
for smaller jobs. That is what we bought if for. With almost a year of use
we are extremely happy with the battery powered chain saw. With the Stihl
name behind a mower I would expect a quality machine.

We also have a Greenworks Pro 80 volt self propelled mower. The mower often
loses traction on our rough/uneven yard, but other than that I really like
it.

BobK

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020, 5:34 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

> No experience with Stihl lawn mowers, but I have nothing but high praise
> for the brand.
>
> After years of getting (mostly) Black and Decker hedge trimmers, I bought
> a Stihl corded.  It was expensive, but the Stihl made the B&D seem like a
> toy. We call it “The Monster”, and it has been just incredible. They’ve
> only recently gotten into consumer stuff, and have increased their electric
> tool availability.
>
> We were going to get a Stihl weed whacker,  but you need to wind it, like
> a commercial one. That was a non-starter for my wife,
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Jun 24, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Denis Boutet via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone, any one have experience with Stihl?
> >
> > Denis
> >
> >> Le 20-06-24 à 13 h 19, EVDL Administrator via EV a écrit :
> >> I've owned a total of 4 E-mowers (not counting the Elec-traks) so far
> since
> >> 1994 - a B&D, two Yard Machines (MTD), and a Greenworks.
> >>
> >> The B&D lasted the longest, but I had to replace the motor and the
> wheels.
> >> Eventually the replacement motor died too, and since the plastic deck
> was
> >> starting to crack from age and hard use, I gave up on it.  But at least
> >> spare parts were mostly available, and usually at reasonable prices.
> >>
> >> The MTDs' motors both failed too.  The official factory motors were
> priced
> >> over $300, more than the entire mowers cost, so the mowers were
> essentially
> >> disposable.
> >>
> >> Probably the Greenworks will prove to be disposable too.  It's a cheap
> and
> >> cheerful Chinese mower.
> >>
> >> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> >>
> >> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> >> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> >>
> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >>  First they came for the journalists.  We don't know what happened
> >>  after that.
> >>
> >> -- Unknown
> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >>
> >> ___
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Re: [EVDL] : V2g for DIY EV's (economics)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Thomas Keenan, could you please provide more information on your solar
setup?
1. What and how many solar panels
2. What kind and how many batteries

We have
1. 24 265 W BenQ (Checz Republic) panels
2. Two SMA Sunny Boy (grid-tied) inverters
3. Tigo Optimizers
Each spring and fall we have a month or two where we have generated enough
electricity that we only have to pay a very small amount. Even with our
current number of panels our electricity bill in January and February is
over $100/ month.
We are adding
1. 24 300 W Peimar (Italian) panels
2. Two SMA Sunny Boy inverters that can handle greater output from the
panels than the SB inverters that we already have)
3. TWO SMA Sunny Island inverters that are grid-free capable and will
charge batteries.
4. Batteries - we have not yet purchased. We prefer Li-ion, but they sure
are expensive. Lead Acid batteries are less expensive, but deep discharging
damages them more and they don't have a long life.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thank you
Bob Keeland
Louisiana

On Thu, May 28, 2020, 7:48 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
> > Without energy storage, you actually need *more* energy infrastructure.
>
> Yes... But they already *have* the infrastructure. The utilities want to
> keep getting money for it. Never mind that it was paid off decades ago.
> Sort of like wanting to keep driving your old car because the loan is
> all paid off.
>
> The old monopolies are having a hard time dealing with new technologies
> that break out of the old limits (PV and wind replacing grid power,
> cellphones replacing wired phones, internet streaming replacing cable
> TV, etc.)
>
> Lee Hart
>
> --
> When something bad happens, you have three choices: You can let it
> define you; let it destroy you; or you can let it strengthen you.
> -- Theodor Seuss Geisel
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
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Re: [EVDL] : V2g for DIY EV's (economics)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Robert Burnings said "With GT, there is no such thing as wasted, or excess
power, its all converted to $$$ on your electric bill."

That all depends on your local electric company. When we produce more
electricity than we use the excess does go to the utility. We are not paid
for that electricity like people are in some other locations (States?). We
just get a VERY SLIGHT reduction in the cost of any electricity that we buy
from the utility at night.

To make matters worse our local electric utility is no longer installing
net meters when any customer adds solar panels to their home after January
1, 2020. I assume that anyone in my area that adds solar panels will have
the same situation that we had before we got net metering. Electricity that
we got from the utility we paid for. Any of our "excess electricity" that
we generated went to the utility, and we also paid for that. There is/was
any  in our case.

Dr. Bob Keeland
Louisiana

On Wed, May 27, 2020, 3:11 PM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> I disagree.  When you make a $10,000 investment in a solar array, any sun
> that falls on it and does not give you retail value in return for the
> electricity is truly a wasted economic value.  With GT, there is no such
> thing as wasted, or excess power, its all converted to $$$ on your
> electric bill.  And that is what lead the Solar explosion about a decade
> ago.  No batteries, no maintenance, but economic power for  life...  at
> Half the cost of the utility...
>
> Bob
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] : V2g for DIY EV's
>
> Willie via EV wrote:
> > BTW, I believe someone mentioned that the not produced power when an
> > inverter "cuts back" must be dissipated somewhere as heat.  I don't
> > believe that is the case; I believe the inverter can just not produce
> > the available power with no heat generation.
>
> I agree. It would be a stupid design that burned it up as heat. Any sane
> design would just turn off or throttle back the inverter. The energy isn't
> "wasted" any more than the sunlight that falls on a sidewalk or street is
> "wasted".
>
> It does lead to an interesting question: If you have excess electric
> power, what can you do with it to accomplish some useful purpose?
> Provide free public EV charging? Light up a greenhouse to grow more food?
> Run a freezer to store more food?
>
> Lee Hart
>
> --
> When something bad happens, you have three choices: You can let it define
> you; let it destroy you; or you can let it strengthen you.
> -- Theodor Seuss Geisel
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] facebook-sucks: Veltop kit used to make solar vehicle

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I for one really DO NOT LIKE Facebook at all. Unfortunately a few groups
that I stay in touch with work only on Facebook. It would be great if
Facebook were to just go away. Then we could all go back to internet forums.

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:04 AM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Jan Steinman via EV wrote:
> > I just ignore any link that goes to FacePlant. I figure that if
> FacePlant is the ONLY place I can see something, it must not be that
> important.
>
> I feel the same. I just will not use Facebook. I don't like the
> company's ethics, the ads, the harvesting of data, and the user's
> frequent lack of civility. It's just a way to waste my time.
>
> Lee Hart
>
> --
> There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows
> about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The
> trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman)
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EV Album Website

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I agree. Keep the EValbum up. I'm still considering a conversion of my 1951
pickup even though we now have a Tesla M3.


On Sun, Sep 29, 2019, 12:58 PM Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

> Let me add to my original comment that if you think that this list has a
> valid purpose (which I do) then the EV Album website does, too. They are
> linked in usefulness and purpose.
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Sep 29, 2019, at 6:31 AM, Mark Abramowitz 
> wrote:
> >
> > I think that it’s an important and valuable resource. It would be a
> shame for it to go away.
> >
> > - Mark
> >
> > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> >
> >> On Sep 29, 2019, at 6:11 AM, Mike C via EV  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> I am sorry I haven’t posted anything about this before.  About two
> years ago the feedback system on the EV Album website stopped working.  I
> tried to get it going again at the time but made no headway.  I have now
> retired and should have more time to devote to it.  The real question is in
> a world of mass produced electric cars, how valuable is the Album anymore?
> Should only conversions be included or only old production EVs, or should
> the whole thing just go away?  The Album has been up something like 20
> years and that is an eternity on the internet.   Does it still have a valid
> purpose?
> >>
> >> Mike Chancey
> >> Webmaster
> >> EV Photo Album
> >> http://evalbum.com/106
> >>
> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >>
> >> -- next part --
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> >>
> >>
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Re: [EVDL] FW: PowerWheels idea (Vehicle-to-home)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Our grid-tied inverters just mostly shut the solar panels down when the
grid is down. As long as the sun is shining we have two special outlets
that will have power after we switch them on to power them. These special
outlets have no power when the grid is working. When the grid is back up we
then switch those outlets back off and plug freezer back into a regular
outlet. This solar module/inverter system was installed in 2014.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 2:06 PM paul dove via EV  wrote:

> I thought grid tied inverters shutdown the solar panels when no grid power
> is detected.
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2019, 12:50:01 AM CDT, Cor van de Water via
> EV  wrote:
>
>  All grid tie central inverters (so, not the micro inverters) take input
> voltage above 400V so they can direct switch the AC output without
> transformers. Input is typically up to 1000V these days.
> I plan on installing solar strings of at least 400V so that I can always
> charge my EVs by direct wiring the panels to the battery, in case there is
> no grid and I need energy in my EV.
> I also have a large UPS that is intended to run with 2x 192V lead-acid
> batteries (it is an older model double conversion UPS) so I am planning to
> connect it to a Leaf pack with center tap so it can both charge the pack as
> well as island like any UPS to feed any critical loads in the house. I need
> to see if it has the power saving setting where it is not always double
> converting (wasting power) and just keeps the battery charged, but feeds
> the incoming power through until there is a power loss, then it instantly
> starts converting battery power to output without even losing the output.
> With such a setup, it would be possible to use solar in 2 ways: DC only to
> directly charge the UPS batteries (but needs overcharge protection and
> waste power as soon as batteries are full) or the usual string inverter
> generating AC to feed back into the grid and independently run the UPS to
> keep the batteries charged and generate uninterrupted power. Only drawback
> is that during an outage, the solar inverter trips and does not generate
> power, but this should happen only rarely.
>
> Cor.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Robert Bruninga via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 7:06 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: Robert Bruninga; jkenny23
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: PowerWheels idea (Vehicle-to-home)
>
> Thaniks.  Yes, I got it wrong.  I updated the web page .
>
> So now a use leaf is about 2.3 power walls but a bit over half the price.
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> bob
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of jkenny23 via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2019 6:31 PM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: jkenny23 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] FW: PowerWheels idea (Vehicle-to-home)
>
> Minor correction, your 3 year old Leaf is only 30kWH max (with less
> actually usable, limited by on-board BMS). It would only take a bit of
> clever reverse engineering to make use of ChaDeMo capable Leafs by
> controlling the contactor to close and feeding a high voltage solar grid
> tie inverter (I believe there are models that can use up to 400V already).
> Then you could use up to 20kW comfortably.
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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Re: [EVDL] Solar off grid with an EV? (transformers)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

In southern Louisiana where we live the peak time is simple, 24 hours. We
have net metering, but what they exchange with us for the electricity that
they get from us is very small. The reason that we are adding more solar
modules and adding batteries is so that ALL of the electricity that we us
is renewable. The local utilities get it from coal, nuclear, natural gas
(perhaps from fracking), solar and wind. The solar and wind components are
not nearly large enough. In the best way that we can we are fighting
pollution and global warming. Our car is a BEV, not a hybrid.
BobK

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019, 5:16 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
> > But why are you so determined to use batteries when the cost of grid
> power
> > is dirt cheap.
>
> It all depends on where you live. Some states have net metering; some
> don't.
> Some even set up roadblocks, or utilities you a big penalty if you dare to
> generate your own power.
>
> --
> In software development, there are two kinds of error: Conceptual
> errors, implementation errors, and off-by-one errors. (anonymous)
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVnews status: 1/week worth ... (offline 7/1+)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Bruce,
   It is unfortunate that you need to undergo surgery. Good luck. Hernia
surgery for me on July 15. Oh well, at least I'm fairly healthy at 66 years
old.

On Sat, Jun 29, 2019, 5:57 PM brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> As y’all remember last month's post:
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVnews-status-slo-newz-dayz-offline-5-20-td4693595.html#a4693598
>
> EVnews items are coming in, in-spurts. You'll notice I've changed my
> posting
> format to blast out a ~week's worth at a time. This is helpful as it lets
> me
> gather what I can find, and frees me up to do other thing in between.
>
> fyi: The va surgery team rescheduled my thyroid removal for next Monday
> 7/1.
> God willing, I will be back at my apt. and online soon after (there may be
> a
> delay in my evdl posts).
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

My wife and I have just ordered our Model 3. Hopefully it will be the last
car that we will buy.
Bobby Keeland

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 11:33 AM Jay Summet via EV  wrote:

> I assume they have looked at the percentage of orders they get online vs
> at their local stores when they make this decision.
>
> If the demand from online sales channels is already more than they can
> manufacture, why bother keeping the regular stores? (other than as
> service locations).
>
> If I had a spare $35,000 sitting around I would have no problems buying
> the base Model 3 online given their generous no questions asked money
> back trial period.
>
> Jay
>
> On 3/1/19 10:41 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> > Is Musk right - people are comfortable buying online?
> > Peri
> >
> >
> https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-to-close-stores-take-orders-for-a-35000-model-3/
> >
> >
> > Tesla will sell its electric cars only online as it accelerates its cost
> > cutting so it can realize its long-running goal of selling a mass-market
> > sedan for $35,000.
> > ...
> > To save money, Tesla will close many of its stores, but leave some open
> > as galleries or “information centers” in high-traffic areas.
> > ...
> > The online sales shift will enable Tesla to lower all vehicle prices by
> > 6 percent, on average, including its higher-end Model S and Model X.
> > ...
> > Although he said going online-only was a difficult decision, Musk said
> > he believes it’s the right one. “It’s 2019,” he said. “People want to
> > buy things online.”
> > ...
> > Although Musk said he didn’t know for certain, he predicted there’s
> > enough pent-up demand to sell about 500,000 Model 3s annually at the
> > starting price of $35,000.
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Re: [EVDL] Rant&Rave: not charging in an EVSE spot> extremely frustrating

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I most certainly agree. There are a lot of vehicles (BEV or ICE) that I do
not like, and I wonder why so many people buy them. But all vehicles are
not made for my tastes. That is a good thing. As is said so often, variety
is the spice of life, whether you are talking people, motorcycles or cars.
Also I live in a rural area so I need at least 200 miles of range for many
trips that I make quite often. Just going to the doctor is at least an hour
and a half trip. Even a range of 210 mile would not get me to New Orleans
and back without stopping for charge, and then needing to plug in when I
got back home. If I lived in a big city, a smaller car with low range would
be OK.
BobK

On Wed, Jan 9, 2019, 8:05 AM Willie via EV 
>
> On 1/8/19 6:26 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote:
> > For me a battery electric vehicle does not need to look like a goofy toy.
> > BobK
>
> Of course, a BEV does not NEED to look any certain way.  Beauty is in
> the eye of the beholder.  Form follows function.  Certainly the
> hidebound will demand certain appearances.  We would like to see an an
> open minded buying public. I would be a Twizy sales prospect if one were
> offered to me.  I would like to have a good condition, reliable,
> capable, safe, cheese wedge CCar.  Recognizing, of course, that CCars
> never met those criteria.  Never the less, both CCars and Twizys have
> earned their places in the history of EV development.  I honor them.
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Re: [EVDL] Rant&Rave: not charging in an EVSE spot> extremely frustrating

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

For me a battery electric vehicle does not need to look like a goofy toy.
BobK

On Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 6:09 PM Gail Lucas via EV  I had forgotten about the Twizy. Found this funny video of one.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz2z1LXbxzE
>
> It is a car I would like but would want it to be self-driving.
>
> On 1/8/2019 12:04 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> >
> > I doubt that we'll ever see anything like the Renault Twizy, for
> example, in
> > US auto showrooms.  However, it's a modest seller in Europe, Asia (at
> least
> > in South Korea), and the Middle East.
> >
> > But then the Twizy costs Eur 10k+, not Eur 100k+.
> >
> > It's also seen as a fun car, economical, and environmentally friendly.
> > Europeans especially seem to be more willing to pay for those factors
> than
> > Americans.
> >
> > It helps too that their safety standards are more flexible, and they
> don't
> > have the preponderance of gigantic SUVs and pickups that we have here.
> > (IMO, despite often aggressive and impatient other drivers, driving any
> tiny
> > car on European roads is less stressful than driving one here.)
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
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Re: [EVDL] Walmart Electric Highway

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

   Charge stations have just been installed at the Walmart store that is
near I-10 in Breaux Bridge, Louisiana. That is west of both Baton Rouge and
the Atchafalaya Basin 18 mile long bridge. I believe that it was funded by
the VW diesel gate money.
   Feel free to check out our new electric vehicles club, Bayou Electric
Vehicles at HTTP://www.bayouev.org
We are small but growing.

On Sun, Dec 2, 2018, 2:06 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV  I noticed on Plugshare that charging deserts are being filled in,. Just
> wondering who is responsible.  I might be able to get across the country in
> a reasonable amount of time with a chademo or CCS car.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

The mid-range (260 miles) Model 3 is indeed available, but it is $45,000.
They count on the $7,500 federal tax break and state incentives to make it
a $35,000 car. The long range Model 3 can currently be bought for about
$49,000 with federal and state incentives then reducing that price. As I am
retired with little earned income the $7,500 federal tax credit is of no
value. I'll still wait for the $35,000 car.
BobK

On Oct 22, 2018 12:59 PM, "paul dove via EV"  wrote:

Last time I checked the midrange model 3 was available for order

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 22, 2018, at 9:47 AM, Bobby Keeland via EV 
wrote:
>
> My wife and I are on the waiting list for a 220 mile range Model 3. We
> don't need the 310 mile range or the high performance.
>
> When we travel it is usually by motorhome. I've thought about towing the
EV
> on a trailer that is covered with solar panels. A recharge while boon
> docking would be no problem.
> BobK
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 8:41 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
> wrote:
>
>> ALL EV's are predominantly charged while parked.  Solar panels on EV's
are
>> not for propulsion power but for battery charging during the 8 to 16 hour
>> solar day while parked in the sun, not just the 30 minutes the car is in
>> use.  This is for those without a dedicated charger at home.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV  On Behalf Of Alan Arrison via EV
>> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 7:26 PM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Cc: Alan Arrison 
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars
>>
>> The numbers don't add up for solar panels on automobiles, never have,
never
>> will.
>>
>> This has been proven time and time again.
>>
>> There is no way it gets even 20 miles per kWh under anything but perfect
>> conditions and slow speeds.
>>
>> And the energy from the panels again is under perfect conditions.
>>
>> It is so light because it has almost no crash protection.
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 10/21/2018 3:09 PM, Larry Gales via EV wrote:
>>> When I look at the Stella Lux and Stella Vie, I get very different
>>> results from the negative views of solar powered cars.  I start with
>>> the assumption that the Dutch students who have won most of the solar
>>> car records are not actually lying.  So, the specs for the 4 passenger
>>> Stella Lux include these:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Length
>>>
>>> 178 inches
>>>
>>> Width
>>>
>>> 69 inches
>>>
>>> Height
>>>
>>> 44 inches
>>>
>>> Weight
>>>
>>> 826 pounds
>>>
>>> Battery Capacity
>>>
>>> 15 kWh
>>>
>>> Motor Efficiency
>>>
>>> 97 percent
>>>
>>> Range on sunny day (Netherlands)
>>>
>>> 621 miles
>>>
>>> Range on sunny day (Australia)
>>>
>>> 683 miles
>>>
>>> Range at night (on battery)
>>>
>>> 403 miles
>>>
>>> Top Speed
>>>
>>> 77 mph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, if the range at night is 403 miles and the battery is 15 kWh, that
>>> translates to 26.8 miles/kWh.  Let us suppose that is under ideal
>>> conditions, and that a more realistic value is 20 miles/kWh.  The
>>> solar PV array is 1.5 kW, so a more realistic value under real world
>>> conditions is
>>> 0.75 kW.  In Seattle, where I live, which has about the worst solar
>>> potential in the USA, the average solar intensity in July is 6.3 sun
>>> hours.
>>> So, (0.75 * 6.3 * 20) = 94.5 miles.  If we usually travel only 40
>>> miles/day, I could easily see traveling 200 miles on accumulated solar
>>> energy, after, say, a week of 40 miles/day travel.  And given that 5
>>> months/year we average over 60% of the July values we can travel about
>>> 60 miles/day just on stored sunlight from the car.  And the 5
>>> passenger Stella Vie is just as efficient.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:09 AM brucedp5 via EV 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://qz.com/1423288/why-dont-we-have-solar-powered-cars-physics/
>>>> The physics of why we don’t have solar-powered cars October 15, 2018
>>>> Michael J. Coren
>>>>
>>>> [image
>>>> https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/image1-e1539387897807.p
>>>> ng
>>>> The

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I installed four 158 watt solar panels (DM Solar), a charge controller (
Morningstar) and an inverter/charger (Magnum) in the RV some time ago. RV
manufacturers do not leave much space for the coach battery and then they
use a dual purpose battery that is a poor starting battery and a worse deep
cycle battery. I replaced the original coach battery with two huge 255
aHr Lifeline
deep cycle batteries that I put in one of the "basement" compartments. I
believe that there are ways that you can set up an EV to grid system that
would work with a Tesla. The alternative is to just unplug from the Tesla
and run a cable from the trailer mounted solar panels to our charge
controller. Who needs an RV Park?
   I've thought about restoring my 1951 Chevy pickup with an electric
motor, lots of Li-Ion batteries and solar panels on a rack that is over the
bed and the cab. The solar panels will not power the pickup by themselves,
but while parked or when driving down the road the batteries will be
charging. An old pickup is not a great conversation vehicle, but it is a
great looking vehicle. No longer burning gasoline would be great.
BobK


On Oct 22, 2018 11:03 AM, "Peter C. Thompson via EV" 
wrote:

This actually makes sense - especially if you have lots of batteries in
the RV as well. I think it would also be possible to use the EV as the
Large Battery for your RV, but Tesla may not allow such a modification.

Cheers, Peter

On 10/22/18 6:47 AM, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote:
> My wife and I are on the waiting list for a 220 mile range Model 3. We
> don't need the 310 mile range or the high performance.
>
> When we travel it is usually by motorhome. I've thought about towing the
EV
> on a trailer that is covered with solar panels. A recharge while boon
> docking would be no problem.
> BobK
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 8:41 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
> wrote:
>
>> ALL EV's are predominantly charged while parked.  Solar panels on EV's
are
>> not for propulsion power but for battery charging during the 8 to 16 hour
>> solar day while parked in the sun, not just the 30 minutes the car is in
>> use.  This is for those without a dedicated charger at home.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV  On Behalf Of Alan Arrison via EV
>> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 7:26 PM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Cc: Alan Arrison 
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars
>>
>> The numbers don't add up for solar panels on automobiles, never have,
never
>> will.
>>
>> This has been proven time and time again.
>>
>> There is no way it gets even 20 miles per kWh under anything but perfect
>> conditions and slow speeds.
>>
>> And the energy from the panels again is under perfect conditions.
>>
>> It is so light because it has almost no crash protection.
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/21/2018 3:09 PM, Larry Gales via EV wrote:
>>> When I look at the Stella Lux and Stella Vie, I get very different
>>> results from the negative views of solar powered cars.  I start with
>>> the assumption that the Dutch students who have won most of the solar
>>> car records are not actually lying.  So, the specs for the 4 passenger
>>> Stella Lux include these:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Length
>>>
>>> 178 inches
>>>
>>> Width
>>>
>>> 69 inches
>>>
>>> Height
>>>
>>> 44 inches
>>>
>>> Weight
>>>
>>> 826 pounds
>>>
>>> Battery Capacity
>>>
>>> 15 kWh
>>>
>>> Motor Efficiency
>>>
>>> 97 percent
>>>
>>> Range on sunny day (Netherlands)
>>>
>>> 621 miles
>>>
>>> Range on sunny day (Australia)
>>>
>>> 683 miles
>>>
>>> Range at night (on battery)
>>>
>>> 403 miles
>>>
>>> Top Speed
>>>
>>> 77 mph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, if the range at night is 403 miles and the battery is 15 kWh, that
>>> translates to 26.8 miles/kWh.  Let us suppose that is under ideal
>>> conditions, and that a more realistic value is 20 miles/kWh.  The
>>> solar PV array is 1.5 kW, so a more realistic value under real world
>>> conditions is
>>> 0.75 kW.  In Seattle, where I live, which has about the worst solar
>>> potential in the USA, the average solar intensity in July is 6.3 sun
>>> hours.
>>> So, (0.75 * 6.3 * 20) = 94.5 miles.  If we usually travel only 40
>>> miles

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

My wife and I are on the waiting list for a 220 mile range Model 3. We
don't need the 310 mile range or the high performance.

When we travel it is usually by motorhome. I've thought about towing the EV
on a trailer that is covered with solar panels. A recharge while boon
docking would be no problem.
BobK

On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 8:41 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> ALL EV's are predominantly charged while parked.  Solar panels on EV's are
> not for propulsion power but for battery charging during the 8 to 16 hour
> solar day while parked in the sun, not just the 30 minutes the car is in
> use.  This is for those without a dedicated charger at home.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of Alan Arrison via EV
> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 7:26 PM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: Alan Arrison 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars
>
> The numbers don't add up for solar panels on automobiles, never have, never
> will.
>
> This has been proven time and time again.
>
> There is no way it gets even 20 miles per kWh under anything but perfect
> conditions and slow speeds.
>
> And the energy from the panels again is under perfect conditions.
>
> It is so light because it has almost no crash protection.
>
> Al
>
>
>
> On 10/21/2018 3:09 PM, Larry Gales via EV wrote:
> > When I look at the Stella Lux and Stella Vie, I get very different
> > results from the negative views of solar powered cars.  I start with
> > the assumption that the Dutch students who have won most of the solar
> > car records are not actually lying.  So, the specs for the 4 passenger
> > Stella Lux include these:
> >
> >
> >
> > Length
> >
> > 178 inches
> >
> > Width
> >
> > 69 inches
> >
> > Height
> >
> > 44 inches
> >
> > Weight
> >
> > 826 pounds
> >
> > Battery Capacity
> >
> > 15 kWh
> >
> > Motor Efficiency
> >
> > 97 percent
> >
> > Range on sunny day (Netherlands)
> >
> > 621 miles
> >
> > Range on sunny day (Australia)
> >
> > 683 miles
> >
> > Range at night (on battery)
> >
> > 403 miles
> >
> > Top Speed
> >
> > 77 mph
> >
> >
> >
> > So, if the range at night is 403 miles and the battery is 15 kWh, that
> > translates to 26.8 miles/kWh.  Let us suppose that is under ideal
> > conditions, and that a more realistic value is 20 miles/kWh.  The
> > solar PV array is 1.5 kW, so a more realistic value under real world
> > conditions is
> > 0.75 kW.  In Seattle, where I live, which has about the worst solar
> > potential in the USA, the average solar intensity in July is 6.3 sun
> > hours.
> > So, (0.75 * 6.3 * 20) = 94.5 miles.  If we usually travel only 40
> > miles/day, I could easily see traveling 200 miles on accumulated solar
> > energy, after, say, a week of 40 miles/day travel.  And given that 5
> > months/year we average over 60% of the July values we can travel about
> > 60 miles/day just on stored sunlight from the car.  And the 5
> > passenger Stella Vie is just as efficient.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:09 AM brucedp5 via EV 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> https://qz.com/1423288/why-dont-we-have-solar-powered-cars-physics/
> >> The physics of why we don’t have solar-powered cars October 15, 2018
> >> Michael J. Coren
> >>
> >> [image
> >> https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/image1-e1539387897807.p
> >> ng
> >> The Sono Motors Car
> >> ]
> >>
> >> The nuclear furnace at the center of solar system powers almost
> >> everything on earth. Photosynthesis, wind, and even fossil fuels
> >> (once decomposed living matter) all derive in some way from the star we
> >> call the Sun.
> >>
> >> So why isn’t it enough to power our cars?
> >>
> >> It’s all about energy density: how much energy falls on a surface
> >> relative to how much is consumed. We can have solar powered e-bikes
> >> that cover thousands of miles, sailboat drones that cross oceans,
> >> even ultra-light aircraft that circumnavigate the globe. What do they
> >> have in common?
> >> They’re
> >> all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar
> >> panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving.
> >>
> >> For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy
> >> equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar
> >> panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The German
> >> startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the roof,
> >> sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km
> >> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind
> >> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although
> >> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down
> >> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 to
> >> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels alone.
> >>
> >> The Sono Motors Car
> >>
> >> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of
> >> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University an

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Why not buy a Tesla? I wondered the same thing. Of course they are very
expensive. Even the $35,000 "affordable" Model costs more than $35,000 so
far. I'm still waiting.
BobK

On Sun, Oct 7, 2018, 4:01 PM George E Swartz via EV 
wrote:

> David,
>
> I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.
>
> George Swartz
>
>
>
> > On 6 Oct 2018 at 7:04, Paul Dove via EV wrote:
> >
> >> My model 3 was only $46,000 I wonder where he,s getting his information
> >
> > Is yours the "performance edition"?  That seems to be what he was
> testing.
> >
> > He mentions that the cheapest currently available model is $49k, which is
> > not that far from the price you quote.
> >
> > That's still WAY over my budget.  But then I can't see myself buying any
> > Tesla ever, regardless of the price.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> > reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
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Re: [EVDL] Large Format Cells vs. Small Format Cells for EVs

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

The comments below about the reliability of Tesla I have heard from
numerous people. The refusal of Nissan to take responsibility of problems
is a personal experience of mine.
Bob Keeland, PhD

On Sun, Sep 9, 2018, 3:49 PM Willie via EV  wrote:

>
>
> On 09/08/2018 09:38 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> > Well, does anyone have actual numbers regarding failures of Teslas?
> > Overall, they've been out long enough that "we" should know if there are
> > reliability problems or not. On my part, I have not heard of any
> > widespread Tesla failure. What reliability problems is C.S. referring to?
>
> Anecdotal, but I know of quite of few Ss that have had their batteries
> replaced/repaired in warranty.  On my ~130k mile 2013 S, the battery was
> recently changed.  There was no real obvious issue but the Tesla service
> people said it should be changed.  Range was still above 90% of original
> and I had not complained of range loss; I considered the loss
> reasonable.  I would guess 30-50% of Tesla with more than 100k miles
> have had their batteries replaced.  Probably all under warranty; I have
> heard of no one who had to buy a battery.  Fact is, cost of replacement
> in generally unknown.  It seems Tesla is not replacing with new
> batteries.  In some cases they install a loaner battery while the faulty
> battery is being refurbished.  In other cases they replace with a
> refurbished battery.   I assume the refurbishment involves replacing a
> smallish number of bad cells.
>
> Much in contrast to Nissan, the battery replacements are painless; as
> mentioned, I did not even know I had a battery problem but Tesla was
> eager to make it right.  Nissan refuses to replace obviously bad batteries.
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Shorai LiFePO4 LFX36L3-BS12 Longevity Reviews

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Mark Hanson asked "curious if LiFePO4 dies suddenly or gradually like
lead."

My experience with lead acid batteries in both a Dodge RAM pickup and in a
Subaru SUV is that they were working great when I stopped at the dealership
(Dodge) and pharmacy (Subaru), but when I got back in the vehicles the
battery was dead. No obvious gradual decline.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 10:04 AM mark hanson via EV  wrote:

> Thanks Cor,
>
>
>
> Yes, it has a standard 14V alternator regulated.  I start and stop
> frequently as skiers are getting in/out of the boat, so curious if LiFePO4
> dies suddenly or gradually like lead.  I assume a small battery like this
> would start fine one second and then not, so I keep a spare battery in the
> boat (unless someone has any real data on this battery, couldn’t find on
> the great god google) .  What is the projective life, 1,5,10 years?
>
>
>
> I had an electric boat www.evalbnum.com/2749
>
> but couldn’t H20 ski behind it so bought a lean burn Honda BFP60, same
> engine that was in my 2000 (real) Insight 65mpg.  In the alum 1200lb 6x16
> boat, gets 6.5MPG which is considered “good” most fiberglass 3400lbs are
> 2.3MPG.
>
>
>
>
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Mark E. Hanson
>
> 184 Vista Lane
>
> Fincastle, VA 24090
>
> 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell
>
> REEVA: community service RE & EV project club
>
> Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery)
>
> UL Certified PV Installer
>
> My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh
>
> FREE Solar EV Charging! ; http://www.WeatherLink.com/user/MarkHansonREEVA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Cor van de Water [mailto:cor.vandewa...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2018 12:19 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: mark hanson
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Shorai LiFePO4 LFX36L3-BS12 Longevity Reviews
>
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I presume that your boat engine has an alternator and is generating 14v as
> long as it keeps running, so not too likely that your boat suddenly dies in
> the middle of the lake, but good to have backup.
>
>
>
> That said, your 4lbs battery probably has between 200 to 300 Wh of
> capacity at best, using normal density numbers.
>
> At 12.8v this means probably 15 to 20 Ah so the usual Chinese twice (or
> more) overspec.
>
> Cor.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 8:29 PM mark hanson via EV 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
>
> I was curious if anyone has used/evaluated the Shorai LiFePO4, Lithium Iron
> Phosphate LXF35L3-BS12 I bought from Amazon $250 with charger/balancer $67
> for my HondaBFP60 boat (1000cc similar to large motorcycle) claims 550
> cranking amps, 36ah but only weighs 4 lbs so probably Chinese inflated
> specs.   Looks more like 7-14ah MC battery.  It does start the engine with
> little voltage sag, 11V whereas the lead battery sags to 8V when starting.
>
>
>
> I'm concerned that it may suddenly die out in the middle of the 80 mile
> lake
> here Smith Mountain Lake near Roanoke, VA so keep a spare tractor battery
> on
> the boat just incase.   I replaced a 40lb lead marine battery to save some
> weight but curious about the longevity and how LiFePO4 dies, if it's sudden
> or gives some warning like lead (that gets gradually saggy when starting).
>
>
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Mark E. Hanson
>
> 184 Vista Lane
>
> Fincastle, VA 24090
>
> 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell
>
> REEVA: community service RE & EV project club
>
> Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery)
>
> UL Certified PV Installer
>
> My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh
>
> FREE Solar EV Charging! ; http://www.WeatherLink.com/user/MarkHansonREEVA
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] George Bush father now: Nissan Leaf Compliance car?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

As for Nissan ...
We have and travel in a motorhome, and tow a vehicle for shopping, etc. Our
Dodge RAM 1/2 ton pickup (standard shift) had been towed on many long trips
without any problems. In 2015 we were looking for a new pickup to tow
behind the RV because the Dodge had 267,000 miles on it. When talking to
dealers we specifically said that it would be towed four-flat behind the
RV. At Nissan they said that the Frontier pickup with standard shift would
be perfect.
We towed the Frontier from southern Louisiana to northern Arkansas. Upon
arrival in Fayetteville we drove the Frontier and there were all kinds of
warning lights on the dash. The entire front brake system had to be
replaced. Nissan took no responsibility for the damage. The Frontier had
less than 5,000 miles on it. One person from Nissan suggested that the
car's computer may have interpreted the long distance rolling as the
Frontier coasting down a long hill and applied the brakes. On the next trip
we disconnected the Frontiers battery and had no problem. We replaced the
engine in the Dodge and sold the Frontier.
I feel that the brake system damage on the Nissan was due to a questionable
design, but Nissan took no responsibility for the damage even though they
had been told that the Frontier was bought with the intention of towing it
behind an RV. I'm not going to buy another Nissan. I will admit that the
Datsun 240Z was a great car.

On Aug 10, 2018 3:29 PM, "paul dove via EV"  wrote:

Well, the first version of this was back in the 90's when they had their
Zero Emissions law in some western states.The Altra was produced between
1998 and 2002. When they repealed the law they quit making the cars. Same
with all the other manufacturers. So, while they began making electric cars
again after the Bush law in 2008 that does not make him the father of
electric vehicles. California made the first law in 1990 and even today
most of the vehicles are sold in states with these laws. i am sure the
$7500 credit added in 2008 has increased sales. We will see what happens
when it goes away for Nissan.


  From: Lee Hart via EV 
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: Lee Hart 
 Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:24 AM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] George Bush father now: Nissan Leaf Compliance car?


Willie via EV wrote:
> I bought a Leaf in 2011 and was well please for over a year... In two
> years and 25k miles, the range was down to about 60... was sold to a
> neighbor... now down to 40-45 miles... Nissan has repeatedly denied
> any meaningful remedy to both owners.

I've seen similar reports of this from others. It does appear that the
early Leafs had a problem with their batteries, especially in hot
climates. Sadly, Nissan refused to acknoledge the problem. It would
probably take a skilled lawyer and class-action lawsuit to pry
compensation out of them.

But Nissan seems to have corrected the problem in later Leafs. I have a
2013 Leaf, and have seen no evidence of loss of range. At over 25k
miles, it still has close to 100 miles range. For example, the range
"guess gauge" will show 80 miles range with an 80% charge, and we
actually can drive it 60 miles and still have 20% left. But a) we live
in a cooler climate (Minnesota), and b) we routinely charge to only 80%
(the 2013 Leaf has an option to end charging at 80% or 100%).
-- 
"Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVangel-about: (spied) Tesla-X 60D, Austin NDEW in Sept.

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I've seen a couple of Teslas in Austin, but the owners were not present :-(
We are still waiting for our standard range Model 3. We have family in
Driftwood, immediately south of Austin.

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 9:03 AM brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
> An EV in Central Texas?  I saw a Tesla on a local Hwy and followed it to
> their charge point.
> I yakked with a driver using the destination charger (below) on his white
> Tesla-X 60D. The 2 guys drove from Waco (60mi North). He said still had
> 110mi charge left on his 200mi range EV.
>
> EVs are rare in this part of central TX so it was a pleasure talking with
> these guys before they took off to kill the hours of L2 (level-2) charging
> time they wanted, to next drive south to Austin. There is no L3 (level-3)
> charging near here, but there is some farther south.
>
>
>
> https://www.yelp.com/biz/courtyard-marriott-killeen?hrid=wwzTK1UUJEJBgu5mtoMA7w
> Courtyard Marriott  L2-only: Tesla (204VAC 48A 23mph) & j1772 (6kW)
> https://www.plugshare.com/location/68699
>
>
> My status: tomorrow I am driving the hours south to San Antonio (SA) to
> stay
> for a week. I'm checking out places to rent that are near to the SA VA
> Hospital. I should have internet connectivity tethered off my phone, all
> should be transparent.
>
> Before my 3pm SA motel check-in time, I hope to stop by where Austin is
> holding their NDEW
> https://driveelectricweek.org/event.php?eventid=1331
>
> I definitely would like to attend this one and only wish I had the youthful
> energy to attend both the SA NDEW
> https://driveelectricweek.org/event.php?eventid=1234
>  1st for a couple hours, and then finish the day at Austin's. But, I fear I
> would fade-fast (my mind and EVangel-zeal is still young, just not my body)
> ... :-zzz
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Multiple HarleyD e-motorcycles> livewire to lightweight e-scooters

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I own and ride a 1999 Harley Sportster. It is a great bike, it looks good
and I love it. I would really like to have an electric Harley, in a
mid-sized version, to kind of go along with my electric car (if Tesla will
ever release the standard range Model 3).
If the photos in the article are what Harley is coming out with for their
electric bikes then I think that they will fail. But, then I am an aging
boomer that is out of touch with what the younger riders will want.

On Aug 4, 2018 1:28 PM, "brucedp5 via EV"  wrote:



https://electrek.co/2018/07/30/harley-davidson-is-expanding-its-ev-team/
Harley Davidson announces plans for multiple electric motorcycles and even
an electric bicycle
Jul. 30th 2018  Micah Toll

[images
https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/04/harley.jpg
livewire

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2014/
06/061814-harley-davidson-livewire-electric-avengers-
sipausa_13362382-f1.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=633

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/
06/livewire-10.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=940

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/
07/Harley-davidson-electric-lightweight-motorcycle.jpeg?
quality=82&strip=all&w=1000
lightweight

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/
07/harley-davidson-scooter.jpeg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1000
e-scooter

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/
07/Screen-Shot-2018-07-30-at-9.30.10-AM.png?w=1000
]

If the name Harley Davidson conjures up images in your head of leather-clad
biker gangs flying down a desert highway while spewing exhaust from their
loud chrome pipes, then perhaps you’d better think again. As we reported
earlier this summer, Harley Davidson is well on their way to debuting their
first electric motorcycle which they are hoping will target a younger, more
urban audience – a market with which the brand desperately needs to succeed.

And now the company appears to be doubling down on that commitment by
announcing a new lineup of electric motorcycles while simultaneously
fleshing out their EV team with a string of new positions.

Harley Davidson’s electric motorcycle development has been known by the name
Project LiveWire, though the company trademarked the name Revelation in
connection with the project earlier this year, making it a good bet that the
new electric Harley will be known as the Revelation upon its final debut.

The project has been in progress for at least 4 years, and has a projected
release sometime next year.

Recently, the Milwaukee based motorcycle company quietly added multiple open
positions related to electric vehicle operations on the hiring page of their
website, fueling speculation that they are preparing to expand the scope of
their current EV project.

The company is currently looking for an Electric Vehicle Lead Project
Manager, a Developmental Services Engineer – Electric Vehicle, as well as
multiple Electric Vehicle Systems Engineers.

Now it appears that the speculation has been confirmed as Harley Davidson
announced today multiple new electric motorcycle platforms that are in
development over the next few years.

According to Harley Davidson’s Chief Operating Officer Michelle Kumbier:

“We’re going big in EV with a family of products that will range in
size, power, as well as price. When you look at EV you know this is a whole
new customer base that we are bringing in.”

In addition to Harley Davidson’s 2019 halo model, the LiveWire, two smaller
and more affordable electric motorcycles are slated for 2021 and 2022.

Kumbier described these models as “more middleweight, if you will” and
designed for “accessible power”.

Harley Davidson also plans to cover the lightweight electric motorcycle
market as well, offering three different EVs designed to cater to the same
market currently dominated by electric scooters, mopeds and higher end
electric bicycles.

These three vehicles include a utility scooter, something that looks more or
less like a dirt bike, and perhaps most surprisingly for the bar-and-shield
motorcycle company, an electric-assist bicycle.

The development of these five new EV platforms won’t be cheap for Harley
Davidson, as the company indicated with their investment projections. They
plan to spend around $150-$180M on electric vehicle development through
2022, which will amount to around of one-third of their total operating
investments.

The other two-thirds are made up of investments in their middle/small
displacement gas-motorcycles and shifting their retail footprint towards
smaller retail locations in urban settings as opposed to their traditionally
larger suburban dealerships.

Exact specifications for Harley Davidson’s new electric motorcycles and
scooters and bikes have not yet been released. However, the company has
indicated that they are shifting focus towards a new market including
younger and more urban riders, which could imply a somewhat lower range.

The original LiveWire concept bike had an electri

Re: [EVDL] Charging load on the grid (corrected)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I don't know about his interior lights, but my neighbor has several lights
in his carport that are on 24 hours per day.

On Jul 27, 2018 10:58 AM, "Robert Bruninga via EV" 
wrote:

> To make the math work, I should have said, "the average house with
> teenagers leaving all the lights on for 5 hours a day".  [50 lights times
> 60W saved times 5 hours a day = 40 miles daily EV charging]
>
> I stand by my numbers when corrected to a house that leaves most of their
> lights on all evening and assuming averqaeg 75 Watt incandescent bulbs
> originally..
>
> The average house with compulsive behaviors who turn off every unused
> light will be 10% of this as Matt noted...  But he equally exaggerated
> errors.
> .
> On Jul 25, 2018, at 1:08 PM, Matt Awesome via EV 
> wrote:
>
> >> Remember this factoid.
> >> Swapping out the average American home from Incandescent bulbs to
> >> LEDs saves the same amount of power needed to charge an EV the
> >> American 40 mile average per day forever.
> >
> > Plainly, no, it won't.
> >
> >> 50 bulbs saving an average 60 watts each for 5 hours a day is 15 kWh.
> > Who the hell leaves 50 lightbulbs on in their house for 5 hours a day?
> > I don't even think I have 50 lightbulbs in my house, let alone leave
> > them all on 5 hours a day.
> >
> > LEDs aren't free, so, there's not 60watts savings from a 60w bulb.
>
> I assumed an average 75W equivalent bulb (saving 60W) when going to a 9W
> LED.
> And around here, 60W equivalents are about $1 each (probably subsidized by
> the utility).
>
> > How many Kwh does an average US household consume in a day?:  ...
> > That's 27kwh/day.
> >
> > What percentage of an electrical bill is comprised of lighting?: ...
> > Source 3: - 9%.
> > Source 4:  - 6%.
> >
> > The split [might depend] on whether heat is made through gas or
> electricity.
> > So, we could say 27kwh/day of which lighting is 6% or 15kwh/day of
> > which lighting is 9% to at least be in the right ballpark (to arrive at
> this:)
> > - 27kwh*6% = 1.62kwh/day.
> > - 15kwh*9% = 1.35kwh/day.
> >
> > You're claiming 10x that amount in *savings* from switching to LED, ...
>
> Yes, I should have said in some homes who leave every light on all
> evening...
>
> >> Charging an EV at 1.5kw for 10 hours a day is 15 kWh.
> >
> > Since it's not the 1970s, the average household has at least 2
> > vehicles, more when there's teenagers/college kids.
>
> I said for one EV.  I didn't say for every car a household could own.
>
> > Add in that LEDs aren't free, you're off by a factor of 25x.
>
> I included their 9W when subtracted from an incandescent 75W to arrive at
> 60W savings per bulb.
> And around here they only cost $1 each for a 60W LED.
>
> > It would be more accurate to say that by switching from incandescents
> > to LEDs, you could expect to save enough energy to cover 4% of your
> > electric vehicle use. A pretty banal, unsensational, non-headlight
> > grabbing rhetoric for sure, but at least an accurate one.
>
> I stand by my numbers when corrected to a house that leaves most of their
> lights on all evening.
>
> Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] 3wh handling, my lightweight EV progress, was Sparrow alternate?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

When I made comments about 3-wheeled ATVs I did not think about the low CG
with the batteries on an electric vehicle. It will take some convincing,
but I would love to give some trikes a try.

I'm still thinking about putting a trike kit on my Sportster, but that
would still be an ICE. I'm actually considering selling my Harley and
getting something like an electric Vespa, even though that would be
sacrilege.

On May 14, 2018 6:38 PM, "jerry freedomev"  wrote:


Hi Bobby and All,
   3wh vehicles , just like 4wh ones, handle as well as they
are designed to.  I've done about 13 of them over the yrs and what matters
is how low and where you put the CG which should be 33% inside of the 2
wheel axle.
   You can make a 2 front wheel/RT, one that will scrub off the
tire or break the suspension before it'll roll with it's EV batteries low
and correctly placed, between the front wheels.
Or you can make it with a high aft CG and it'll easily roll
over.
 On the Sparrow, it's handling is like  big SUV, Van, safe
driven within reason.
  Even my EV trike pickups  far out handle  all ICE trikes and
barely has to slow for cornering, taking them as well as most cars.
Though if I want best performance, go with the 2 front wheels
which properly set up should do autocross very well..
Because of the need for low correctly placed CG, makes EVs and
natural partners.  Now add lightweight and if aero, very long range on a
small pack, easily getting 200 miles with a 20kwh pack.
And speaking of long range trikes, my newest EV trike subcar is
in chassis but legal form, on the road testing out systems before making
it's aero body.
Right now it looks like my EV trike pickups.
For those new, it is a large MC front end, a wood/epoxy
chassis, body with a hot rodded golfcart rear end and Volt EV lithium
battery modules.
 Having a money crunch again I went back to a contactor
controller , 3speed with turbo/field weakening it's getting along well at
45 mph.   I can probable go faster but it's only a 2.2hp rated motor!!  And
fast enough for me so I'll leave it there for now.
 I thought making he trailing arm suspension in the rear from
the stiff leaf springs but turns out I was very wrong.  Apparently when I
built the previous ones by using alum rectangular 1x3''  make a anti roll
bar effect is why it stayed so flat it turns.  With the Leaf spring ones
it  would just lean one way or the other, usually the way you didn't want.
 I pumped the air hocks up rather high so when I hit my 2nd
speed, the rear reared up surprising the heck out of me.  So I lowered the
rear and most of it went away.
 Just have a 4kw Volt EV module in now for testing with a
large 12vdc lead to balance it for 12vdc supply.
 I'm using the FreedomEVs Prius replacement tires and
lightweight mags looks better and why I'm getting 10 mph more as my last
one it seems as battery voltage, motor, transaxle models
are all the same.
As I get it more reliable, I'll take the Battery out of my
present EV trike pickup giving me 8kwh and likely 100-120 mile
range.   Most of mine run between 60-80wthr/mile with bad aero.  We'll see
soon what my new one gets.
   Just got my MPJA Wthr meter, good for 100 vdc and 400amps or so
yesterday so I'll know soon what a not aero version  does..  I expect my
aero cabin  version to use about the same at 60mph as the not aero at 45mph.
I'll rebuild my present one as an aero cabin it was suppose to
be the first time, with a much larger motor, chain driving the GC transaxle
so it can do 65mph and tow an aero, lightweight  trailer long distance, up
to 250 miles on a charge.
   And amazingly how low cost these are as I'll only have about
$800-$1200 in each one.  I get my Volt modules cheap as I sell them for
$150/kwh.
   I need to finish waterproofing it/epoxy coating, so it'll stay
nice looking and we seem to be in a tropical storm like system here for 5
days in Tampa.   So good I built that shop, reason for low cash flow,  to
work in as the rainy season is here early!!
   Jerry Dycus.



--
*From:* Bobby Keeland via EV 
*To:* Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
*Cc:* Bobby Keeland 
*Sent:* Monday, May 14, 2018 8:31 AM
*Subject:* Re: [EVDL] Sparrow alternate?

When ATVs were first introduced as 3-wheelers I had one, but did not keep
it for long. 3-wheelers are an accident waiting to happen. With 2 wheels in
the front these car/motorcycle combinations may be safe, but it would take
a lot to convince me. Has anyone on the EVDL actually driven one of these
things and gone around a corner at highway speed?

On May 14, 2018 12:22 AM, "paul dove via EV" 

Re: [EVDL] Sparrow alternate?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

When ATVs were first introduced as 3-wheelers I had one, but did not keep
it for long. 3-wheelers are an accident waiting to happen. With 2 wheels in
the front these car/motorcycle combinations may be safe, but it would take
a lot to convince me. Has anyone on the EVDL actually driven one of these
things and gone around a corner at highway speed?

On May 14, 2018 12:22 AM, "paul dove via EV"  wrote:

> Ampere Motor USA fully electric roadster supposed to start production this
> year.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 13, 2018, at 10:47 AM, John Lussmyer via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > Anyone heard of this before?  I have trouble believing that it's a real
> vehicle that's been developed in total secrecy, AND that's it's cheap
> (relatively).
> > https://www.hammacher.com/Product/13338
> >
> > --
> > Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
> > ___
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Re: [EVDL] Musings on a practical solar vehicle.

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I would love to see your design to put over your recumbent trike. My wife
and I both have Catrike recumbent trikes. They currently have Bionx
electric motors on the rear wheels.

On Jan 2, 2018 1:18 PM, "Larry Gales via EV"  wrote:

> Well, the Stella Lux and Stella Vie appear to be practical solar powered
> cars but they are extremely lightweight and highly aerodynamic.
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think I've mentioned that an Ultravan from the 60's weights about the
> > same as a Nissan Leaf.  Putting the Leaf drive train in the Ultravan
> would
> > be a good retro mod.  With a 3kw solar array it would charge in 10 hours
> of
> > sun.  However it might not be the freeway runner the Leaf is at 22 feet
> > long and 8 feet wide although better than any RV.  Some mirror
> replacement
> > and wheel well covering might be needed. Possibly a better way might be a
> > VW bus chopped down or even better a purpose built body to put on the VW
> > bus pan.  Weighing in at 1500 pounds with a 2kw solar array it would
> charge
> > quickly and might even cruise at 25mph on the array alone on level
> ground.
> > I am trying to avoid building a purpose built vehicle from the ground up.
> > Seems a daunting task.  I am currently figuring out a design to put over
> my
> > recumbent trike. 2kw battery 800 watt array.  It is all very scale-able.
> > What I learn from the trike will help with future projects.The current
> > philosophy is more batteries.  I think efficiency is a better way.
> >  Lawrence Rhodes
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Larry Gales
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla Model 3 Status Updates?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

The best source of information that I have seen is the Model 3 Owners Club
on YouTube.

On Dec 18, 2017 4:55 PM, "Tom Hudson via EV"  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Is there somewhere we can monitor the status of Tesla Model 3 production?
> Obviously they're having trouble getting the production up to speed,
> whether it's the production machinery or manpower -- I'd like to stay up to
> date on how they're doing (i.e. number of cars produced weekly), if
> possible.
>
> We have a Model 3 reserved -- we're nursing our 20-year-old Solectria
> Force along, hoping it will continue to provide our main EV transportation
> until our Model 3 is ready.  It'd just be nice to know if Tesla is starting
> to overcome the production bottlenecks
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
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Re: [EVDL] who makes Tesla?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

In many ways California is indeed a foreign country. I've often wondered if
I should move from Louisiana back to California or perhaps back to the
state of Washington.

On Oct 23, 2017 7:57 PM, "Peri Hartman via EV"  wrote:

> This question was posed on Quora, and I thought I'd pass it along.
> https://www.quora.com/Who-made-Tesla-Model-S
> Peri
>
> Who made Tesla Model S?
>
> (Top Answer)
>
> I have had the experience with my Tesla Roadster of a man asking me, “Who
> makes that car??” and I replied “Tesla.”
>
> “Yes, but who makes it?”
>
> “Tesla. Tesla Motors.”
>
> Still a blank look. Clearly if I had answered Ford, GM, BMW, or Mercedes,
> he would have nodded and walked away. Instead there was this “DOES NOT
> COMPUTE” look in his face that spoke volumes. I could see him thinking: It
> looks like a real car, like something a, ya know, real car company would
> build. So what car company, one that I’ve heard of, actually builds it?
>
> “So it’s a foreign car, then,” he finally said.
>
> “No, this one was built in Palo Alto, just a few miles away. And the Model
> S is built in Fremont. It’s not only an American car, it’s a Californian
> car!”
>
> The questioner wandered away, befuddled and assuming I was either pulling
> his leg or out of my mind.
>
> One argument the Texans have made against allowing sales by Tesla (which
> does not use conventional car dealerships) is that they should not
> encourage the sales of “foreign” cars. Of course, now that I think about
> it, California might as well be a foreign country to a Texan, so maybe it’s
> not as ignorant as it sounds.
>
> I look forward to a day that people do not have to ask questions like "Who
> made Tesla Model S?”.
>
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Re: [EVDL] Anti-EV dealer

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I asked our local Nissan dealership (Opelousus Louisiana) about looking at
a Leaf. He said that they had one a few years ago but it did not sell so
they shipped it to another dealership.
Several years ago we asked a salesman at the Ford dealership (Lafayette
Louisiana) about getting an Escape hybrid. He spent a lot of time trying to
explain why hybrid cars were a bad idea in the hot South. He pushed us to
buy an ICE Explorer so we left.
BobK

On Sep 27, 2017 5:35 AM, "Chris Tromley via EV"  wrote:

> Had an interesting encounter at the Mitsubishi dealer last night.  I had
> been in the night before to drop of my i-MiEV to reset an errant SRS
> (airbag) light.  I kindly older gent in a dealer logo shirt helped me take
> care of that.  Last night to pick it up the same guy came out as I was
> going in, and he stopped me to ask how I liked my car.  I told him I loved
> it, but didn't press the issue because I wan't to get back home.
>
> Turns out he owns the place.  He informed me (in the most friendly, car
> dealer kind of way), that he refuses to sell the i-MiEV there.  The short
> version of his reasoning is that whenever he gets an electric trade-in
> (even the Toyotas!), the batteries are toast and they're "running on the
> engine only."  He "just doesn't want to see the customers get hurt."  (And
> BTW, the only plug-ins we get here in PA are full electric.  And I'm pretty
> sure my i-MiEV is one of maybe 3 that he's ever seen.)
>
> I was being as polite as possible, but I must have given him a "that makes
> no sense at all' sort of expression.  He then proceeded to tell me that the
> Space Station has 7000 - 8000 lbs of batteries, which they need because
> they "just keep going through them" - they're just not reliable enough.  He
> saw he was getting no traction with me so he nicely but abruptly broke off
> the conversation.
>
> Just for a giggle I googled when I got home.  At
> https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/01/spacewalkers-
> upgrading-iss-batteries/
> I found that the ISS batteries are NiH2 and they're very reliable but
> they're reaching the end of their lives.  So they swapped some out for
> lithium this year, and those have vastly improved performance and energy
> density.
>
> Is this typical of the looney-toons crapola people have to deal with when
> buying an EV?  Seriously - that was some truly 'out-there' BS he was
> shoveling, and he did so as if it was as evident as the sky being blue.
>
> We humans have SO much evolving yet to do.
>
> Chris
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (rendered)> Tesla's classic, sleek pickup e-truck machismo-design (v)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

It looks like something that a person who has absolutely no desire or need
for a pickup would buy in a feeble attempt to look manly and outdoorsy. If
you don't need a pickup then don't buy a car with a little bitty pickup bed
looking thing attached to the back.

On Sep 15, 2017 11:02 AM, "ROBERT via EV"  wrote:

> If the Tesla pickup is anything like the artist rendering shown on this
> website then it ain't no pickup.  Remember what Frog Horn Leg Horn used to
> say "Boy do I look like a chicken".
>
>
> 
> From: EV  on behalf of brucedp5 via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 5:37 AM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: brucedp5
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: (rendered)> Tesla's classic, sleek pickup e-truck
> machismo-design (v)
>
>
>
> https://www.autoblog.com/2017/09/07/tesla-pickup-truck-rendered/
> [https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims3/GLOB/crop/800x450+0+0/
> resize/800x450!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.
> com/hss/storage/midas/7f74a5be42b7aa596b287650917c82
> 86/205641408/Tesla_Pickup.jpg] 2017/09/07/tesla-pickup-truck-rendered/>
>
> Tesla pickup truck rendered - Autoblog com/2017/09/07/tesla-pickup-truck-rendered/>
> www.autoblog.com
> A Tesla pickup truck is coming. Tesla CEO Elon Musk hasn't revealed a lot
> of details about it, but back in April, he said we could expect it in "18
> to 24 months ...
>
>
> Tesla pickup truck rendered
> Sep 7th 2017  John Beltz Snyder
>
> [images
> http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/7f74a5be42b7aa596b287650917c82
> 86/205641408/Tesla_Pickup.jpg
>
> [http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/7f74a5be42b7aa596b287650917c82
> 86/205641408/Tesla_Pickup.jpg]
>
>
> https://o.aolcdn.com/images/dims?crop=800%2C449%2C0%2C0&;
> quality=85&format=jpg&resize=716%2C402&image_uri=http%3A%
> 2F%2Fo.aolcdn.com%2Fhss%2Fstorage%2Fmidas%2Fdf02a63836cc815af5055523d006
> 84e0%2F205641412%2Fdims.jpg&client=a1acac3e1b3290917d92&signature=
> f2afd0bc2de9cc96e66ddd36f77a7fdca339242e
>
>
> video  flash
> ]
>
> It combines Tesla's sleek design language with classic pickup machismo
>
> A Tesla pickup truck is coming. Tesla CEO Elon Musk hasn't revealed a lot
> of
> details about it, but back in April, he said we could expect it in "18 to
> 24
> months," which would put the reveal somewhere around late 2018 or early
> 2019. In the meantime, other companies are taking initiative to unveil
> their
> own electric pickups. Workhorse is taking commercial orders for its W15
> range extended electric work truck, and Havelaar unveiled its Bison EV
> pickup in Canada this spring. Most recently, Bollinger Motors took the
> wraps
> off its battery-powered B1 sport utility truck, which combines off-road
> utility with the efficiency of an electric powertrain. Now Tesla, it seems,
> has to play catch-up.
>
> But what would a Tesla pickup look like? The electric automaker has made a
> name for itself by blending luxury with performance and cutting-edge
> technology, all things we'd expect in a truck offering, as well. These
> renderings from artist Andrei Avarvarii give us a glimpse of how Tesla
> pickup could look in the flesh.
>
> Tesla Pickup Truck
>
> Its front fascia blends a number of familiar Tesla features, and uses a
> similar grille design to that of the pre-facelift model S, though freshened
> up a bit with a livelier shape. The headlights are instantly recognizable
> and the hood is a macho take on the swoopier lids of the current Teslas. A
> rising beltline and big Turbine wheels give it a distinctively sporty look.
> The stamped tailgate and flared fenders give this otherwise mold-breaking
> truck a whiff of pickup traditionalism.
>
> Of course, we'd expect a truck from Tesla to offer different battery
> capacities. It would also make sense for it to serve as a mobile power
> device, and we'd love to see electrical outlets in the bed and up in the
> frunk, where one would naturally store their (Tesla branded?) power tools.
> [© autoblog.com]
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/evln/
> EVDL EV News Archive - Electric Vehicle Discussion List<
> http://evdl.org/evln/>
> evdl.org
> EVLN - EV News Archive Edited by Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter: EVLN: home |
> help | archive | news | privacy policy | terms of service
>
>
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> Electric Vehicle Discussion List | Mailing List Archive vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/>
> electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com
> Electric Vehicle Discussion List forum and mailing list archive. Welcome
> to the EVDL! This forum is a web "front end" and archive for an
> email discussion list. If you post here and...
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Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

A few years ago my wife and I bought two Catrikes brand recumbent tricycle.
After having three cirvical fusions in her neck my wife can no longer ride
a bicycle. The Catrikes a really fun to ride. Yes, I have rolled mine by
turning to quickly. About a year ago we added electric motors made by
Bionx. We can now ride further (we are in our mid-60s), but we do worry a
lot about not being seen by auto drivers.

On May 30, 2017 6:51 AM, "Chris Tromley via EV"  wrote:

> Other sources of insight are bentrideronline.com and recumbents.com.  Both
> have forums specifically for velomobiles, which is what you're building.
> Recumbents.com also has a lot of info on racing HPVs, which will get into
> efficiency, etc.  IHPVA.org might be a good source too.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  >
> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the
> > thing.  Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good
> > success with efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at
> 30mph
> > with a 20 inch wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc
> > but I'm willing to go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or
> > performance).  I will eventually have a shell with solar panels plus my
> 250
> > pound hunk O' fat.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] What is a compliance car? : ... Bolt named top car ...

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Brucepd5 wrote;

< If anyone has not posted their view on what they 'think' or 'feel' a
< 'compliance car' is, I ask that you do, for the record.

First of all, my wife and I are not yet EV drivers. We tried to be EV or at
least HEV drivers in late 2008, but NONE were available at that time in our
state of Louisiana. A salesman at the local Ford dealership spent his time
with us talking about how bad electric or hybrid cars were in the heat of
the South. Obviously he was much more interested in selling an ICE vehicle
than he was in selling what the customer wanted.
I still think about converting my 1951 Chevy pickup (an 'Advanced Design')
to electric but I do have range anxiety. A '51 Chevy is not very
aerodynamic and I would need lots of batteries. We have put down the $1,000
deposit for a place in line, waiting for a Tesla Model 3. I trust Tesla
more than any other car manufacturer to build a quality electric car.
I believe that typical ICE companies, like GM, are manufacturing EVs
because they are being forced to by ZEV mandates in places like California.
In other words it is my opinion that the Bolt is a 'compliance car.' If the
Bolt were not a compliance car they would be available in other states.
Bob Keeland
Louisiana

On Jan 11, 2017 6:41 PM, "paul dove via EV"  wrote:

Canadian versions of the Chevrolet Bolt EV will be initially available only
in three provinces, as General Motors seeks to stoke demand by taking
advantage of government rebates.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 11, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Roger Stockton via EV 
wrote:
>
> paul dove wrote:
>
>> Quebec becomes the first Canadian province and 11th North American
market,
>> after 10 US states, to adopt a ZEV mandate.
>
> Just as California does not constitute the entire American market, Quebec
is not the entire Canadian market.
>
> The Bolt is offered for sale in other Canadian provinces as well as in
Quebec.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
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Re: [EVDL] Ford Focus EV battery for conversion?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

John,

Do you have a wiring diagram?

BobK

On Dec 16, 2016 3:37 PM, "John Lussmyer via EV"  wrote:

> On Fri Dec 16 13:18:55 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >I really dislike the idea of high voltage BMS wires running all over the
> place.
> >My plan, if I use LEAF cells, is to make a PCB that attaches directly to
> the
> >battery terminals that has a microcontroller reading the cell voltages and
> >sending the data via an optically isolated serial bus that is daisy
> chained from
> >one cell to the next.
>
> Which is pretty much what I have done with my current Leaf BMS.  Though
> it's analog, no digital communications, and just has a "something is wrong"
> signal for the driver. (over or under voltage, broken sense wire, whatever)
> The problems I'm seeing with this system are:
> A) You have to be REALLY careful laying out the PC board. (I have one
> trace too close to the busbar, and if you rotate the board just a tad too
> far, it'll fry the reg.)
> B) PC boards compress, so keeping the mounting bolt tight is difficult.
> C) You MUST mount your modules in a way that always gives you easy access
> to that end of the module for easy maintenance.
> D) It gets difficult dealing with the power cable connectors mounted to
> the same bolt as the regs.
>
> I'm currently redesigning it to have probably 6 regs per board, and a
> short wire harness to the set of modules.  Makes it MUCH easier for
> maintenance.  Also makes it easier to mount the regs where you can see them
> easily.
>
>
> --
>
> Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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Re: [EVDL] Selling an EV on EBay

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I had a somewhat similar situation while trying to sell a Nissan Frontier
(ice) pickup. The buyer said that he was working off-shore in the gulf of
Mexico and could not get to a bank. The pickup was supposed to be for his
dad who lives in Minnesota. The buyer could pay by PayPal and the payment
would be placed in our PayPal account. Then we got an email that 'seemed'
to come from PayPal. It stated that the money plus the cost of shipping was
in my account and would be released to me just as soon as we sent a check
for the shipping cost ($940.00) to an address in Beijing, China. Plus, the
message said that We could not confirm this by calling PayPal because the
transaction was not yet in the information for the general PayPal employee.
We called PayPal and were told they they never do anything like that. Some
guy in China was hoping for a $940 present.

We are still trying to sell that pickup. We have, however, reserved a Tesla
Model 3, whenever it is available. I was not really interested in the
Chevrolet Bolt as I don't really trust GM, especially when they said that
the Bolt was only going to be available in California and Oregon.

I do like my 1951 Chevy pickup, even though it is not running. Still
thinking of converting it even though it is not very streamlined.

Bobby Keeland

On Nov 21, 2016 4:50 PM, "clarke2 via EV"  wrote:

> I got a banker to admit to me that even a certified check is in jeopardy
> of being reversed even months later.
>
> Dan
>
> On 11/21/2016 11:58 AM, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote:
>
>> Yup, sounds like a scam so if you want to proceed first make sure the
>> cheque clears before you ship.  The typical additional part is they send a
>> cheque for more than the amount saying the extra is for shipping or some
>> such and ask that you refund them the difference, by cheque or money
>> order.  Unfortunately often the cheque is drawn on a stolen account that
>> the owner may not realize has been compromised so it can clear and appear
>> good for sometimes a long time before the money is suddenly reversed and
>> you are left dangling.  I worked this scam with a friend who was selling a
>> wheel chair on craigslist and the guy sent a cheque for more than the
>> value, wanted the chair sent to a third party along with the difference
>> after shipping costs.  A couple of phone calls and it was obvious that it
>> was  a scam.  We reported it to the police gave them the cheque and led the
>> guy on for a bit before we stopped the communications.  Never did find out
>> what the resolution was.
>>
>> So be careful.
>>
>> Lawrence
>>
>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 07:02, Cor van de Water via EV 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mark,
>>> There are some red flags that you are often warned about, such as using
>>> a check or money order from abroad that appears legit on first sight,
>>> but two or 3 weeks later your bank calls that the piece of paper is
>>> worthless.
>>> The most often occurring form of that scam was that they sent you a too
>>> large payment, to cover the cost of shipment and honest sellers would
>>> send the buyers a personal check or cash for the overage. So, after all
>>> was said and done, they were out of their car, and shipping costs and
>>> whatever cash or check they sent to the buyer, only left with a
>>> worthless piece of paper.
>>> So, if the type of payment you receive is not a guaranteed type of
>>> payment (please ask your bank to confirm!) then you must wait a
>>> *loong* time before even shipping your vehicle!
>>>
>>> That said, it is possible that a (foreign?) buyer absolutely wants to
>>> have a nice looking Ghia and then 3 grand is a bargain, EV or not. So,
>>> it is possible that it simply is someone with more money than
>>> realization of what an EV is, he simply wants a nice looking car and
>>> someone will take care that it runs
>>> I hope you find out soon what the intent of the buyer is!
>>>
>>> Cor van de Water
>>> Chief Scientist
>>> Proxim Wireless
>>>
>>> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>>
>>> http://www.proxim.com
>>>
>>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>>> this message is prohibited.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hanson via
>>> EV
>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2016 5:22 AM
>>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>> Subject: [EVDL] Selling an EV on EBay
>>>
>>> Hi folks
>>> I'm curious if this is normal. I just sold my Ghia evalbum.com/4346 on
>>> EBay for $3335.  The guy doesn't ask anything about EV operation when
>>> I've sent a fair amount of info. I just get misspelled notifications
>>> like the transporters will 

Re: [EVDL] Best deal on Lead Acid for conversion?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I don't know about Sam's Club, but in several Wal-Marts I have only been
able to find starting batteries or the Marine/RV batteries. These batteries
are a poor starting battery and an even worse 'imitation' deep cycle
battery. I had one in an RV. It was pretty worthless.

On Jul 21, 2016 1:02 PM, "Cruisin via EV"  wrote:

You may want to consider NEW Volt Li-ion battery packs, not from a junkie
with unknown capacity, and all the accessories needed including a BMS with
wire harness.

--
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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

   I used an electric blanket under a water bed through an entire winter.
It worked fine while turned on the entire time.

   Under a bunch of batteries in a moving vehicle I would not trust.
Bob Keeland
On Jun 4, 2016 7:48 AM, "John Lindsay via EV"  wrote:

We use them under people in Australia. Not recommended to be left on when
you're in bed but folks do.

John Lindsay

> On 4 Jun 2016, at 9:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:
>
>> On 3 Jun 2016 at 22:39, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:
>>
>> I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a
battery
>> pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these
blankets will
>> work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's
little
>> control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an
automatic
>> shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave inverter.
>
> Not that I mean to answer for Lee, but - maybe.
>
> One issue that should be OK - assuming that the thermostat is a
traditional
> mechanical type - is its ability to handle your inverter's output wave.
>
> "Modified sine wave" inverters should really be called "modified square
> wave" because they're closer to that.  But the wave still crosses zero
volts
> 120 times a second.  That's what you need for the thermostat to manage
> opening without welding its contacts, which is what would probably happen
if
> you tried to use it on DC.
>
> If the blanket has some kind of electronic controller, instead of a
> mechanical thermostat, then I don't know.
>
> I have some other concerns.  One problem I see is that an electric blanket
> thermostat responds to room air temperature.  It cycles on and off every
few
> minutes or so (coarse PWM), with more on-time as the room temperature
falls.
> Seems to me that it'd be tough to make it hold a consistent battery
> temperature, since it wouldn't be able to sense the actual battery
> temperature.
>
> Also, the thermostat isn't designed for automotive use, where it might be
> exposed to the elements and lots of vibration.
>
> Finally, I'd be concerned that an electric blanket isn't designed to have
> weight on it, it's meant to be placed OVER a person.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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Re: [EVDL] Harbor Freight tools (was: J1772. Solder or crimp?)

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I bought my Central Hydraulics brand compression crimper from HF so that I
could get good crimps on 0 gauge wiring. Works great so far. This was for
solar panels. From what I've heard you should stay from HF solar panel
systems.
On Apr 27, 2016 4:13 PM, "Bill Dube via EV"  wrote:

> HF has mostly decent quality tools. Not Snap-On super-duper top-end
> quality, but decent utilitarian tools at low prices.
>
> When you are shopping at HF, you have to use common sense, however. The
> label may say "3/4 HP" but if the power cord is thin like a noodle and the
> price is only $15, it probably is only 100 watts and will likely not do the
> job like a brand name tool. (Chinese horses are often smaller, I've been
> told. ;-)  ) I've replaced a few power switches over the years as they are
> typically not well sealed.
>
> I use the 30 in shear/bender/roller constantly.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/30-inch-shear-press-brake-and-slip-roll-5907.html
>
> I bought a band saw from HF many years ago and I can't imagine life
> without it:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-4-speed-woodworking-band-saw-60564.html
> I put a new motor with a VFD in it almost as soon as I got it, however. (I
> never buy replacement blades from HF.)
>
> We actually have two of their $15  4 1/2 inch grinders. One for the race
> trailer and one for the shop.
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/grinders-buffers/4-12-in-43-amp-angle-grinder-69645.html
>
> Impact wrench (we got it on sale for $79, minus 20% of course)
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/impact-wrenches/12-in-professional-air-impact-wrench-68424.html
> (This impact wrench works marvelously, by the way.)
>
> We have bought 100's of their tools over the years. Only rarely have I
> been disappointed.
>
> Bill D.
>
> At 11:15 AM 4/27/2016, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
>
> Interesting.
>>
>> I was going to buy some stuff from them
>> awhile back, but decided against it after going online and reading
>> reviews. Lots of folks thought they were junk, so it's good to see a
>> contrary opinion.
>>
>>
>> Sent from AltaMail Go
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Dube via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> To: Cor van de Water <cwa...@proxim.com>,Electric
>>> Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>>> Subject: [EVDL] Harbor Freight tools (was: J1772. Solder or crimp?)
>>> Date: 4/27/16, 8:49 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Harbor freight _always_ has a 20% off one item coupon, somewhere.
>>> Occasionally, a 25% off coupon is sent in mailings, advertizements, etc.
>>> (AARP magazine often has a 25% off coupon.)
>>> You can always get a "free LED flashlight" coupon as well. Be sure to
>>> find one of those.
>>>
>>> They have nice tools, but you must be somewhat selective in what you buy
>>> from Harbor Freight.
>>> Buy the tool (like a band saw) from HF, but buy the replacement
>>> metal-cutting blades, end-mills, and the like, elsewhere. Blades, etc.
>>> for wood and plastic from HF are OK and work great. Drills are OK.
>>> They sell _awesome_ hydraulic tools at a bargain price. Their hand
>>> tools, pneumatic tools, and power tools, have worked well for us for
>>> many years and saved us a ton of money. If you look at photos of our
>>> shop, almost all the tools are HF brand.
>>>
>>> We buy Ryobi cordless tools because they all use the same style battery.
>>> Have for many years, even though they have changed chemistry, the new
>>> batteries fit the old tools. (Even though they cost substantially less,
>>> almost every HF cordless tool uses a different style battery and
>>> charger, so we buy Ryobi.)
>>>
>>> Bill D.
>>>
>>> On 4/26/2016 3:55 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>>> > Bill,
>>> > Thanks - I am planning to convert my Lead-Acid pack to Li later this
>>> > year
>>> > as it has been deteriorating after 16,500 miles and 4 years of almost
>>> > daily commute, so I probably will need to make new cables for that
>>> > conversion.
>>> > I printed your coupon and noticed that it is valid till end this week,
>>> > then I came home and found the weekly junk mail stash in the mailbox -
>>> > but the back page caught my eye: Harbor Freight ads and a 20% off
>>> > coupon,
>>> > only the paper coupon is valid till July!
>>> > Probably that the digital coupon will get renewed every week or so, but
>>> > it was a nice coincidence to get both at the same day!
>>> >
>>> > Cor van de Water
>>> > Chief Scientist
>>> > Proxim Wireless
>>> >
>>> > office +1 408 383 7626 Skype:
>>> cor_van_de_water
>>> > XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private:
>>> cvandewater.info
>>> >
>>> > http://www.proxim.com
>>> >
>>> > This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
>>> and
>>> > proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received
>>> > this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any
>>> > unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or

Re: [EVDL] Converting '51 Chevy (after going off rid?)...

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Interesting thoughts. For our current grid-tied PV system we 'sell' excess
electricity to the electric company and then buy it back at night or cloudy
days. A couple of months in the spring and again in the fall our electric
bill is $8.00. Nice
A year ago our January electricity bill was $171.00. That was the highest
bill than we had had for 10 years - a time before we added solar panels. A
quick check with the NOAA website showed that the weather was not any
colder a year ago than over the previous 10 years.
I'm sure that the electricity company is just gouging the guy who has a PV
system at his house. If I had not raised a fuss at the electricity company
office I'm sure that more than the January bill would have been
ridiculously high. There is constant effort to reduce or eliminate net
metering in Louisiana. Our 'do as little as possible to help the people'
government is of little help. They help the corporations, not the people.

BobK, Forest Dynamics
On Jan 18, 2016 9:28 AM, "Robert Bruninga via EV"  wrote:
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Re: [EVDL] Subject: Re: Leaf donor car? Re: Books on converting a car to ev?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

What is the link to the web page?

On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Steve Clunn via EV 
wrote:

> > Personally, I'd rather contract out the whole EV thing. My goal is not to
> become an EV expert. My goal is to have an EV ONLY because it is a
> marketing tool. I personally would be just as happy with an ICE because I
> can't justify the added cost of an EV..>
>
> Hi ALL Audrey here.!
> Steve Clunn, who has been on your list for many years, showed me your
> post... I had him do a VETTE  a few years ago... it can be seen on the
> HOME page of our WEB PAGE...  We did it with TWO 9" Warp's and a 2K
> Zilla...  kind of sounds like what you all are talking about here.
> Steve was very impressed with the low power consumption, I believe
> 300Watts per mile,  although this was at slow speeds...( Leas Acid
> Batteries that we loaned him were a little tired)   The customer could
> not afford the batteries at the time, so we we LOANED him some lead
> acid batteries.
>
> 8 years ago, when everyone told ME  .. NOT TO go into an EV Business.
> ... I forged ahead, against all odds, and a terrible economy, and gas
> at $4.29 a Gal. to what I have today.  A small EV company with 2
> employees...converting mostly MEMORY CARS  ( 1950...to about 1980's)
> Classics. That said,  Steve is doing a 1998 Porsche Carrera right
> now.
>
> I was a little surprised that Derrick Berger didn't give more
> information about the batteries he is selling.  ( you can see the
> specs on our web page under HIGH END BATTERIES)..   Steve was doing
> some work for the man that imported a UPS Truck load of these
> batteries, probably 5 years ago.  I think my prices on these are as
> cheap as any ones.  Steve made a pack of these for a College and put
> them in a  8x10.5  ( size of a Golf Cart ) box  and test drove the
> pack with his electric pick up.  He was VERY happy that day... driving
> the pick up around on ONE battery the size of a Golf Cart Battery !!!
> Unfortunately, we don't have the specs on this project .. or any
> pictures
>
> Probably our most successful business plan is our  "ASSISTED
> PROGRAM"..  ( under the COSTS Tab on our web page) was the bright Idea
> of Steve.   Basically, you buy the parts from me,... bring  YOU and
> YOUR VEHICLE to OUR shop...and you and steve go at it TOGETHER for not
> only a reduced hourly rate, but some FUN Hands ON Experience. !!...
> ANYTHING that you can do without Steve's help,  you can do at our shop
> in YOUR SPOT AT NO CHARGE.  When you need steve's help, he is back
> on the clock !   This may sound too good to be true, can you imagine
> going to a tire shop, and taking the tire off the car... putting it ON
> their tire machine, and then only paying for the tire guy to twist it
> OFF with a machine...and put on a new one. Then YOU putting it
> back on the car and paying for 5 minutes worth of work. Sounds too
> good to be true, but it is.This is one of the things that has kept
> my business going. !!
>
> Another point,  is we are at the lowest gas prices in many years. And
> there still seems to be quite a bit of interest.   Thing should only
> get better from here. Best to JUMP on the TRAIN NOW !!
>
> Audrey Clunn
> Green Shed Conversions
>
>
> --
> Steve Clunn
> Merging the best of the past with
> the best of the future.
> www.Greenshedconversions.com
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Re: [EVDL] Converting '51 Chevy [adding solar panels]

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I occasionally travel by RV and tow a car behind. If I tow my EV pickup
that has solar panels on a rack, it will be at least partially charged by
the time I get to wherever I am going. Sometimes it takes three or four
days to get from one place to another, like Louisiana to California. We do
not drive straight through like we did when younger. I could also connect
the solar panels on the RV (640 watts) to the pickup to help charge more
than four miles of driving power per hour of sun. I tend to park in the sun
so that my coach batteries on the RV can charge.  However, I'm still not
over the prospect of range!!!

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> >> Perhaps I can add solar panels on a rack over the pickup...
>
> > Adjust your expectations a bit there…  It won’t move the needle.
>
> True, ... while driving... I calculated for my Prius with 200W solar panels
> was picking up 1 MPG out of 60 MPG when driving down the highway at 55
> MPH.   Yes, practically nothing...
>
> BUT, a typical vehicle is only in use about 4% of the time and spends 96%
> of the time parked.  So calculating the value of the solar panel while
> parked 8 hours at work in the sun would pick up 8 miles range for the
> return home for free.
>
> And this was a necessity because the Govt still will not let me pay the 50
> cents a day to plug in.
>
> A pickup bed cover could pickup 4 times this power than my Prius Roof
> could.
>
> But again, I tell everyone that I wouild never do it again for 3 reasons.
> 1) small panels cost TEN times per watt compared to Big panels
> 2) I have a HUNDRED TIMES more area on my house than the car
> 3) The House is always in the sun (not parked in the shade)
>
> But then, despite my above recomendation, I do it for every EV I build.
> Simply because of the value of promoting EV's and Solar and the ability to
> pick up a little bit of range (about 1 mile per hour in the sun) when I am
> off somewhere and cannot plug in.
>
> AND putting them on the flat bed-cover of a pickup can be done at only 10%
> the cost of any other car...!
>
> Bob, Wb4APR
>
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [EVDL] Converting '51 Chevy (after going off rid?)...

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Interesting thoughts. For our current grid-tied PV system we 'sell' excess
electricity to the electric company and then buy it back at night or cloudy
days. A couple of months in the spring and again in the fall our electric
bill is $8.00. Nice
A year ago our January electricity bill was $171.00. That was the highest
bill than we had had for 10 years - a time before we added solar panels. A
quick check with the NOAA website showed that the weather was not any
colder a year ago than over the previous 10 years.
I'm sure that the electricity company is just gouging the guy who has a PV
system at his house. If I had not raised a fuss at the electricity company
office I'm sure that more than the January bill would have been
ridiculously high. There is constant effort to reduce or eliminate net
metering in Louisiana. Our 'do as little as possible to help the people'
government is of little help. They help the corporations, not the people.

BobK, Forest Dynamics
On Jan 18, 2016 9:28 AM, "Robert Bruninga via EV"  wrote:

> > I'm in no hurry to start the EV project [until after I]
> > ... add more PV panels and batteries so I can go off grid,
>
> And why on earth do that?
>
> Going off-grid will cause you to throw away $2 out of every $3 you invest
> for the rest of your life in battery maintenance and replacement.  It makes
> no sense when storage in the grid is basically free (in good Net-metered
> states).  Around here the trade off is like this for a 10 kW system.
>
> Compare paying $8 a month (minimum utility bill) compared to:
>
> Going off grid and doing y our own storage:
>
> 1) Having to invest $10k in two Tesla Power Walls to get 4 kW of average
> power
>
> 2) SPend another $10k every 5 years to replace it due to being worn out
>
> 3) And that assumes only 80% depth of discharge
>
> 4) So you are really only getting 3.2 kw and only storage for 5 hrs a day
>
> 5) Weather in Maryland can easily go 5 days of no sun.
>
> 6) That is 125 hours of practically no sun input for a $10k system that can
> only run for 5hrs is a really, really, drastic life style change.
>
> 7) If wife demands same lifestyle and zero inconvenience, you are going to
> need 25 more power walls and that's another $125,000 you need to invest
> every 10 years.
>
> 8) AND this is only in the summer when your solar input is TWICE what it is
> in the winter.  So you have to reduce your life style in HALF every winter
> when life is miserable enough as it is.  =OR=
>
> 9) You double the size of your solar array and battery system to maintain
> the same lifestyle in the winter, but now you have a $250,000 system that
> you only need fully half the year and the other half the year you have to
> THROW AWAY or WASTE half of your summer power because it would take another
> 4000 powerwalls  ($20 million)to store up SUMMER power for use in the
> winter.
>
> No, compared to $8 a month, Ill stick with Net Metered grid tie and get $3
> worth of electricity value from every $3 invested compared to only $1 worth
> of electricity for off-grid.
>
> See http://aprs.org/off-grid-NOT.html
>
> bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] Converting a Leaf EV into a pick-up truck ...

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I have the 1951 Chevy pickup. It was my father's.

BobK, Forest Dynamics
On Jan 13, 2016 3:36 PM, "brucedp5 via EV"  wrote:

>
>
> [ref
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Books-on-converting-a-car-to-ev-tp4679681p4679713.html
> ]
>
> Encase Bobby was only considering converting his 1951 classic truck because
> he had one, he could listen to what was posted and also consider converting
> a Leaf to a pickup truck (if a truck is what he wants/needs).
>
> Converting a Leaf EV to a pickup truck has been done:
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Sparky-converted-Leaf-EV-into-pick-up-truck-e-UTE-v-td4671661.html
> EVLN: Sparky converted Leaf EV into pick-up truck, e-UTE (v)
>
> They used a Nissan Frontier pick-up truck bed:
>
>
> http://www.off-road.com/images/content/Bed-Nissan-Frontier-PRO-4X-10-18-13.jpg
>
>
> http://www.nissanvillageparts.com/oe-nissan/999t7bx190?origin=pla&gclid=CND-gaXZp8oCFZODaQodsMcBUw
>
> was used once the rear (after the fronts seats) was cut away.
>
> He could snap up a low cost salvage Leaf as his donor:
>
> http://www.buycar247.us/auto/salvage/NISSAN/LEAF
>
> https://erepairables.com/salvage-cars-auction/nissan/leaf
>
> https://www.easyexport.us/vehicle-finder/salvage-cars-for-sale/NISSAN/LEAF
>
> http://www.carjunkyards.us/auto/wrecked/NISSAN/LEAF
>
> http://www.salvagebid.com/salvage-cars/nissan/leaf/
>
>  and convert it to his needs. If he chose the donor correctly, he could
> have
> an on-board L2 6kW charger, L3 capability, the better pack chemistry and
> design of the newer models, and an 80 mile range EV that would be useful
> for
> many years.
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Converting-a-Leaf-EV-into-a-pick-up-truck-tp4679731.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Converting '51 Chevy pickup: Books on converting a car to ev?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Thanks for the replies to my question regarding the 1951 Chevy pickup. In
answer to your questions:
I'm retired so don't have a daily commute, but it is 30 miles to my doctor,
dentist and whole foods for grocery shopping. I only drive when I need
something. Range is of course a concern. I used to have a 1988 S-10 but
sold it some time ago. I do prefer the look of the 1951.
I prefer li-ion batteries. With a heavy vehicle I'd rather not add even
more battery weight.
An e-meter would be a definite.
Yes. I can do a lot of work myself. I have the time and I've done quite a
bit of auto and electrical work. Getting dirty and busting some knuckles is
nothing new to me.  I spent 9 years in the army as infantry/combat engineer.
Perhaps I can add solar panels on a rack over the pickup so that it is
recharging whenever the sun is shining. That will not provide a complete
recharge while shopping, but it should help some.

I'm in no hurry to start the EV project as I have several other projects to
complete:
1) finish the solar panel, charge controller, etc. install on an RV. It is
installed. I just need to add more solar panels,
2) finish some solar hot water panels so I can have both hot water and
radiant floor heating,
3) add a gutter system and tanks so that I can collect rainwater,
4) add more PV panels and batteries so I can go off grid,
5) add a trike kit to my Harley Sportster.

Bob Keeland, Forest Dynamics
On Jan 13, 2016 9:48 AM, "John Lussmyer via EV"  wrote:

> On Wed Jan 13 07:05:47 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >Meaning you may decide initially to go with the lower cost lead-acid
> (PbSO4)
> >flooded batteries (i.e.: 24 T-105's in a box in the truck bed) but also
> >consider what-if later you went for the taller t-145, or upgraded to
> li-ion
>
> Nowadays, there is pretty much NO reason to start with lead-acid.  Li-ion
> don't cost that much more up front, are smaller, lighter, and last FAR
> longer.
>
> >Having an e-meter in the dash cluster than can tell you how much energy
> >capacity you have left or charge you still need, etc. is a very useful
> item.
> >Here is one, see
> >https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Xantrex+Link+10
>
> I've been using one of these:
>
> http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-blue-led-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P278.aspx
> The main difference I've found from a Link-10 is that it doesn't
> auto-reset after charging.  I have to press a button to do that.
>
> >Like my Blazer was, your older pickup is a heavy inefficient donor for
> >conversion. So, I suggest you have a drive system that has regen (has an
> AC
> >motor and controller). Regen can gain a few miles, but its other gain is
> in
> >using the friction brakes a whole lot less (they last longer).
>
> It also depends on your driving pattern.  95% of my trips involve 2 stops,
> driving 8-20 miles, 2 more stops.
> Not much useable regen at all.
> DC drive was a FAR less expensive option.
>
> >Your ice pickup has about a 90hp engine. For the same performance you
> ought
> >to have at least a 144VDC pack. There are several sources for EV
> components.
> >Shop around do not limit yourself to what I use as examples. Here is a
> >144VDC peak 88hp AC motor/controller kit, see
> >
> http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-parts/motor-drive-kits-2/ac-induction-motor-kits/ac-51-kit.html
>
> AC Drive, Max of 88 HP for $4600
> DC drive system (Warp 9, Z1K), Max HP 200+, for $4000
>   (also, can handle a WIDE voltage range, which allows a much broader
> range of battery pack configurations.)
>   I'm using a pair of Impulse 9" (should have used Warp 9") motors, and a
> Z2K.
>   Provides nice acceleration for my 6300 lb truck.
>
> --
>
> Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
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[EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
vehicle to EV?

Bob Keeland
Forest Dynamics
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