Re: [EVDL] Controller page updates

[Sean Korb via EV]

Though not challenged in that particular way, I also appreciate that most
blind people can read a well constructed HTML page.

sean


On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 8:30 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> I think with all the responses trying your html page from different
> browsers
> on various OS', I believe you have a good page.
>
> Not that it is needed, I also had good success bringing your page up on:
> Firefox, Opera, SeaMonkey (a Firefox version) when on Windows and when on
> Linux.
>
> I have found web pages using simple, straight-forward html 4.0 code have a
> good common denominator compatibility (the page will work on the majority
> of
> situations). It is when a web designer decides to get fancy and apply their
> College course training using flash, shockwave, & others, that web pages
> can
> have issues in different situations (the page may not be as 'pretty',
> wiz-bang, or 'cool', but the information and or message will get across to
> a
> majority of viewers).
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Controller-page-updates-tp4670371p4670379.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Controller page updates

[Sean Korb via EV]

Read out and a Braille TTY.


On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> Sean, with "read" do you mean "when it is computer-read out to them"?
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Sean Korb via
> EV
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:44 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Controller page updates
>
> Though not challenged in that particular way, I also appreciate that
> most
> blind people can read a well constructed HTML page.
>
> sean
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 8:30 AM, brucedp5 via EV 
> wrote:
>
> > I think with all the responses trying your html page from different
> > browsers
> > on various OS', I believe you have a good page.
> >
> > Not that it is needed, I also had good success bringing your page up
> on:
> > Firefox, Opera, SeaMonkey (a Firefox version) when on Windows and when
> on
> > Linux.
> >
> > I have found web pages using simple, straight-forward html 4.0 code
> have a
> > good common denominator compatibility (the page will work on the
> majority
> > of
> > situations). It is when a web designer decides to get fancy and apply
> their
> > College course training using flash, shockwave, & others, that web
> pages
> > can
> > have issues in different situations (the page may not be as 'pretty',
> > wiz-bang, or 'cool', but the information and or message will get
> across to
> > a
> > majority of viewers).
> >
> >
> > {brucedp.150m.com}
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Controller-
> page-updates-tp4670371p4670379.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
> '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
> #1382
> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
> "Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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>
>


-- 
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'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Lithium battery setpoints...

[Sean Korb via EV]

Is this (softball question here) because the aluminum terminals start to
oxidize in the atmosphere and the sandpaper takes that light (but very
tough and durable) corrosion off?  This corrosion would add significant
resistance to the battery terminals.

sean


On Tue, Jul 29, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Bill Dube via EV 
wrote:

> Almost forgot.
>
> If you didn't lightly sand the cell terminals and coat with thin film of
> NoAlOx, then you need to do that now. Yes, doing this is a pain in the
> butt, especally after it is all put together, but it must be done to get
> good, low-resistance, reliable, connections on the cell terminals. (They
> are aluminum.) Otherwise, you get symptoms exactly as you have described.
>
> Bill D.
>
>
>
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>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] co-operation

[Sean Korb via EV]

This is more of a philosophical discussion and may be off topic.  It's
worth mentioning that Elon Musk *does* want to make money and thinks this
is a good way to do it.  The industry will follow not out of the goodness
of their heart but for all the profits they could make.  Consumers will
follow to get the best deal.  Tesla does have some not so secret sauce on
battery packaging and management so they could be a supplier to the
hobbyist if they wanted to... but  won't as it dilutes their brand as a car
company.

The high cost of entry continues to be a barrier to most consumers.  If you
are investing that money you need something that you know will last 10
years doing what you want it to do.  I think we have cars now that indeed
do this.  It's just going to take some time for it to be cool enough for it
to take off.  I'll tell you one thing, if they do last 10 years that should
be long enough to see another gas crunch and then everyone will know a
person with an electric car that is less impacted.  That will be quite a
boost to the industry.  Consumers wallets are an overriding force in most
markets.

sean

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:43 PM, George Tyler via EV 
wrote:

> Elon Musk says that America is the easiest place to get any new thing
> going, and he is probably right. There are more EV conversions in USA than
> anywhere else, and there are people doing it commercially. Why has this
> market not taken off? In this forum we have all the skills necessary to set
> up a franchise that is in it's self not for profit but works to further the
> development of a market for converted cars which could be a fraction of the
> cost of the current manufacturer's cars. This would really get things going.
> Someone could speak to Elon Musk, get some help, financially and
> in other ways. With other big players they are only interested in the money
> they can make out of it, but Elon aims to create an electric car industry,
> does not really care about the money for it's own sake, only for what it
> can do to make a difference to the world. We should work with this as much
> as possible as the people on here and Elon have this in common, something
> unique, it is too good an opportunity to miss.
>
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>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: iMiev remains cheap EV champ> nil changes, 2016 model in March

[Sean Korb via EV]

Many people are most concerned about their longest drive where average trip
distance doesn't matter as much.  Commuters are especially vulnerable if
there is no charging station at their workplace.  I have a 25 mile commute
and with no charging station. I'm at 50 mile range round trip.  Because I
might want to go to the bank or take my friends to lunch occasionally, I am
*not* a candidate for most EVs.  Many are approaching and a few (less
expensive than a Tesla) are cresting my 100 mile needs.  I'll be in the
market for an electric commuter car when I'm satisfied they can perform
those tasks.

Honestly, if my company put a charging station or two up I would jump for
it.  My boss's boss has a Volt so this may happen in my lifetime.

Meanwhile a hobby car that can make it 15 miles to a car show and 15 miles
back is within reach.  I just need $7500 for a pack and another $2000 for a
charger.  I wish the government could reimburse me or a bank would secure a
loan against a pack.  I wonder why nobody has come up with "pack
insurance"?  A Pack loan would probably be less risky than a boat loan :)

sean

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:10 PM, JoeS. via EV  wrote:

> I'm surprised range is even discussed on this forum, as it's simply a
> matter
> of suitability for an individual's needs. Do the math. Considering that the
> average trip distance in the US is under ten miles, 95% of the trips are
> under 30 miles, and the daily average is under 40 miles, the i-MiEV's range
> is more than sufficient for most commuters and daily drivers in this
> country. Ref: http://www.solarjourneyusa.com/EVdistanceAnalysis.php
>
> Opportunity charging allows the i-MiEV to easily achieve daily drives of
> well over 150 miles, and that's not even using the now-standard CHAdeMO.
> Since most households have more than one vehicle, if the range of the
> i-MiEV
> is unsuitable for a particular trip, then simply arrange to take another
> car.
>
> Our family's first i-MiEV is now three years old with 37K completely
> trouble-free miles on it (yes, we often put on well over 100 miles/day
> despite only having the 3kW onboard charger). It quickly became the
> family's
> primary car, and late last year we bought a second i-MiEV (used, with
> CHAdeMO) because of the first one's popularity. For longer distances, the
> cover comes off the Gen1 Honda Insight, although the i-MiEVs account for
> over 99% of our trips. With the back seats down, the i-MiEV's flat-floor
> cargo volume exceeds that of most EVs (yes, more volume than a Leaf) and
> its
> tight turning radius and small exterior dimensions makes it a delight in
> congested areas. Having the key attributes of the modern car (Active
> Stability Control, six airbags, Vmax>80mph, etc.) as well as multiple
> levels
> of regen, I consider the i-MiEV a most under-appreciated modern EV which
> admirably fulfills this family's needs.
>
>
>
> -
> Joe Siudzinski
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-iMiev-remains-cheap-EV-champ-nil-changes-2016-model-in-March-tp4674046p4674058.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> ___
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>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BASF sez 1k+mi NiMH EV Pack> 700Wh/kg, lighter-weight

[Sean Korb via EV]

That alone is reason to celebrate :)

sean

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
>> https://transportevolved.com/2015/03/04/nimh-batteries-
>> could-yet-again-power-electric-cars-says-basf-
>> thanks-to-ten-fold-increase-in-energy-density/
>> NiMH Batteries Could Yet Again Power Electric Cars Says BASF, Thanks to
>> Ten-Fold Increase in Energy Density
>>
>
> None of this matters if no one can buy it. So what this tells me is that
> Chevron's nimh patent monopoly is broken, or at least cracked. BASF
> wouldn't invest in a technology that they couldn't sell.
>
> --
> Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the
> complicated simple. -- Charles Mingus
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net
>
> ___
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BASF sez 1k+mi NiMH EV Pack> 700Wh/kg, lighter-weight

[Sean Korb via EV]

Oh.

On February 14, 2012 BASF  announced
that it had acquired Ovonic Battery Company from Energy Conversion Devices
Inc.[27]


On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Sean Korb  wrote:

> That alone is reason to celebrate :)
>
> sean
>
> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>
>> brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>>
>>> https://transportevolved.com/2015/03/04/nimh-batteries-
>>> could-yet-again-power-electric-cars-says-basf-
>>> thanks-to-ten-fold-increase-in-energy-density/
>>> NiMH Batteries Could Yet Again Power Electric Cars Says BASF, Thanks to
>>> Ten-Fold Increase in Energy Density
>>>
>>
>> None of this matters if no one can buy it. So what this tells me is that
>> Chevron's nimh patent monopoly is broken, or at least cracked. BASF
>> wouldn't invest in a technology that they couldn't sell.
>>
>> --
>> Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the
>> complicated simple. -- Charles Mingus
>> --
>> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net
>>
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
>> group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
> '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
> "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
> "Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
>



-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Watch "Malfunctioning meter." on YouTube

[Sean Korb via EV]

I think it would be good to experiment to find the wavelengths involved.
There was a recent dustup about the Raspberry Pi II being "camera shy".  It
was rebooting when photographed with a Xenon flash equipped camera.  It
turned out that chip U11 was photosensitive and the fix was to put a little
blue-tac on it... or keep it in an opaque plastic box if you were taking
photos.

cheers,
sean

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Chris Meier via EV 
wrote:

> Is it a specific band of sunlight, such as IR, that causes the effect?
>
> On March 18, 2015 5:18:45 AM CDT, George Tyler via EV 
> wrote:
> >It is clearly the sun causing the problem. Some years ago I was
> >designing
> >RFID readers for cow tags, I found that the tags themselves were
> >sensitive
> >to sunlight! In fact, any chip that does not have sunlight positively
> >excluded is this meter will probably have a chip bonded to the
> >bottom of
> >the pcb directly with a blob of sealer on the top.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence
> >Rhodes via
> >EV
> >Sent: Wednesday, 18 March 2015 10:56 a.m.
> >To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> >Subject: [EVDL] Watch "Malfunctioning meter." on YouTube
> >
> >Malfunctioning meter.: https://youtu.be/xNy8IOlRkII
> >
> >This is the correct url.  Lawrence Rhodes
> >
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> >
> >
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> --
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-- 
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'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What if 2011 LEAFs were Retrofitted to 2016 Range?

[Sean Korb via EV]

I've seen bulky range extenders offered for Leafs by aftermarket vendors.
This is not a Leaf range extending kit from Nissan.  What would a Nissan
kit look like?  Just a battery replacement?  Is there a high cost for R&D
and manufacturing of this kit?

I'm not sure I see a solution in the article.  It's the beginning of an
idea... but I think it will ultimately be cheaper for Nissan to pay off the
customer and walk away.  Then the aftermarket can pick up where Nissan left
off and $5k is almost half of a 20kw additional trunk pack.  They don't
have the same guarantee and it doesn't add value to the car so it is
difficult to get a bank loan against the asset... but it is a solution that
Nissan does not have to add to their portfolio.


On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 10:24 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
>
> http://www.torquenews.com/3618/nissan-leaf-crisis-residual-value-avert-fix-problem
> Nissan Can Avert LEAF Pending Crisis If It Makes This Single Change
> By Douglas Stansfield  2015-05-28
>
> [image
>
> http://www.torquenews.com/sites/default/files/image-1/douglas_nissan_leaf_0.jpg
> Nissan LEAF
> ]
>
> Nissan’s recent offer to existing LEAF lease holders of $5000 to reduce
> their residual value has presented an interesting dilemma for the
> automaker.
>
> The secondary electric car market isn’t holding its value as originally
> anticipated, so Nissan’s answer was to help reduce the LEAF's residual
> value
> and move the cars from lease to own. This thereby shifts the steeper than
> normal depreciation rate from Nissan to the now LEAF owners. The question
> is
> will this solidify the secondary EV market?
>
> As an arm chair economist, I firmly believe that value is held in the
> prices
> one pays for the goods they purchase. At this point, the value of a Nissan
> LEAF is weighed by the current market availability and the anticipated
> future availability. As with the law of diffusion of innovation, EV sales
> are in the early adopter phase of the product life cycle. Consumers that
> are
> the early adopters most likely anticipated the battery improvements that
> have been evolving so opted to lease rather than buy their first Nissan
> Leafs. This leaves them open to the next generation EV which would be
> available in the future. As anticipated, that philosophy will be holding
> true and many Nissan LEAF leases will just give back their cars at the end
> of the lease and buy or lease a new EV. This is mostly because EVs with 200
> mile range are coming.
>
> So what is Nissan to do?
> Can it develop a strategy to uphold the value of the secondary market
> Nissan
> Leafs? I believe it can. The published rate for a replacement Nissan LEAF
> battery pack is $5499 as previously published.
>
> What if Nissan Retrofits 2011 LEAFs to 2016 Range?
> Well, what if Nissan developed a kit, that would be able to be installed at
> the local dealers to retrofit 2011 to 2016 Nissan LEAFs with an add on
> battery that would push the Nissan LEAF cars on the road today up to the
> 200
> miles range of the next version Leaf. Instead of a $5000 give back just on
> residual value, give back $5000 worth of batteries and keep the value of
> the
> overall used car higher?
>
> There are many benefits to this.
> It would help solidify the used EV car market.
> It would help keep existing leases in the Nissan Family.
> It would drive future brand growth by word of mouth.
> It would increase publicity for the brand.
> [© torquenews.com]
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN posts use:
> http://evdl.org/evln/
>
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3086531/Hate-parking-car-Nissan-vehicles-automatically-2020-says-CEO.html
> Nissan cars will be autonomous-drive ready by 2020
>
> http://gas2.org/2015/05/22/zero-motorcycles-announces-price-cut/
> $8.5k Zero e-Motorcycles Announces Price Cut
>
>
> http://www.mercurynews.com/los-gatos/ci_28158057/los-gatos-shorts-click-it-or-ticket-campaign
> Los Gatos shorts: 'Click It or Ticket' campaign is now underway
> +
> EVLN: Polaris Will Leave HarleyD's E-mcycle In The Dust> Snooze-U-Lose
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-What-if-2011-LEAFs-were-Retrofitted-to-2016-Range-tp4675979.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> ___
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> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Last call for LeSled

[Sean Korb via EV]

I have to concur.  When a suitable battery pack and BMS are a significant
percentage of a used Leaf, it's going to be hard to justify completing the
project.  But it certainly is much *cooler* than a Leaf.  That's what
hot-rodding is all about.  Expense is secondary, even for the thrifty.

sean

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Tom Keenan via EV 
wrote:

> I can understand the lack of potential conversion buyers.  My present EV,
> a 1989 Ford Escort converted by a company in Santa Rosa, was on sale at one
> point for $2,000 but it never sold. Ultimately, the owner put it up for
> grabs on the local EAA list.  I put a set of new lead acid batteries in,
> and it has been relatively trouble free for the past three years.  It has
> had its share of mechanical problems, but it is a 1989 Ford Escort at heart.
>
> The big quandary for my EV will come in a year or so when it needs another
> battery pack.  Does one spend over $8,000 to upgrade to a marginal lithium
> pack, charger, and BMS, or $2,500 on a lead acid pack that will work, but
> with the lackluster performance it has always had just to drive it a few
> thousand miles for the next few years?
>
> Putting $8,000 into a battery pack for an old, and otherwise unremarkable
> car would seem to be the height of folly, particularly when modern but
> used, factory made EVs (Leaf, iMiEV) can be had for just a bit more.
>
> Tom Keenan
>
> > On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:42 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > This is the state of used home built EVs.  No interest.  The parts in
> this vehicle are worth 10 k.  What a shame.  With the right pack this
> vehicle out range and perform any factory EV.  It will also be better when
> the factory EV is broken as it will be fixable by the owner or any ev
> converter.  The factory ev will cost big bucks to fix.  When people realize
> this conversations will rise in value.  Lawrence Rhodes
> > -- next part --
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> >
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
> ___
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> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Sean Korb via EV]

This sub-subject gets done to death pretty regularly but I like gathering
what I hear from both camps.  Definitely going to use a BMS but I really
like the non-BMS workaround of getting *two* expensive battery packs and
using a really simple gauge that shows their comparative voltage.  If one
is sagging more than the other, pull over and find out what is wrong.  If
you have a smart BMS... it takes care of it for you until you can get home
;)

sean

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> Paul,
> In your case, *you* were the BMS.
> But you were lucky that you noticed the lower end voltage and knew
> something was off.
> You were lucky that the charger finished charging without cooking the
> other cells to death
> You were lucky that the bad cell was a short and not a partial failure
> or you might not have detected it in time or faced a much more severe
> situation than a shorted cell.
> Anyone less knowledgeable than you about your EV (and that would be 99+
> percent of all drivers)
> would not have caught this failure and continued until disaster, so your
> vehicle can be used by you
> alone, because you are an essential part of that vehicle! (namely, the BMS)
> It looks like you just confirmed the thing that you tried to disprove...
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info
> www.proxim.com
>
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
> message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Paul Dove [mailto:dov...@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 11:13 AM
> To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery
>
> I had this issue early on in my vehicle and at the end of charge my pack
> voltage reflected this and I removed the bad cell. The cell was shorted but
> the rest of the pack was fine. I have no cell monitoring.
>
> Pretty sure it was caused by a loose connection. That said, apart from
> expense I have no problem with a BAttery Monitor that looks at every cell
> but prismatic cells have multiple cells in them in parallel so you can't
> monitor them individually.
>
> Still of the opinion it is an unnecessary expense.
>
> You haven't convinced me that cell discharge or drift between SOC is a
> real issue. I cat see it ever being an issue.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jun 18, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > Paul,
> > It is true that in series string the same *load* current goes through
> > all cells, but the principle of self-discharge is that it occurs
> > internal to the cell, so it is invisible to the outside world except
> > when you measure each cell (or blow them up due to overcharge or
> under-discharge).
> > I have actually measured cells and seen the self-discharge.
> > As you say, it is a small effect in good cells.
> > But still, there is about 1:2 difference in self-discharge between the
> > cells I monitor and the differences add up over time.
> > It might not be a problem in the first year or even in the second.
> > Then in the 3rd year you try to squeeze an 85 or 90% discharge from
> > the cells and boom - one reverses (or more) and it is destroyed and
> > you might only find out from the fireworks when you try to charge it the
> next cycle or when you drive it.
> > Oh BTW - one reason to monitor *all* and *every* cell is exactly the
> > issue with the infamous bottom-balancing without BMS approach:
> > Some of the cells that I have were abused and too deeply discharged.
> > Guess what happens? They become a resistor.
> > Some are "low" resistance which is OK when they resemble a wire,
> > others are still "in doubt" whether they want to become a piece of wire
> or rather a heating element.
> > This has at least 2 disastrous effects if you do not detect this
> immediately:
> >
> > 1. The pack voltage has dropped and each cell now gets a much higher
> > finish charging so you might have been charging conservatively with
> > all cells in the string, but with some cells "removed", all the rest
> > is dividing up the difference and may easily be charged to destruction
> now!
> >
> > 2. If charging does not harm the pack, what about discharging hundreds
> > of Amps through a resistor that is nicely embedded in the pack,
> > insulated from the outside by the cells around it? If it even drops
> > 10V across it at hundreds of Amps, you now have a multi-kiloWatt heater
> inside your pack without much cooling. What do you think will happen?
> >
> > Just some easy illustration of the *need* for a cell-level BMS, from
> > practice by measuring what happened to a used set of Li

Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Sean Korb via EV]

That is Brilliant!  I love living in the future :)  And I love that my pack
will cost somewhat less for the same KVA.

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> The Lee Hart alternative of this solution is to have only a single pack,
> add a (very low current) tap in the center of the pack, connected to two
> super-bright LEDs mounted in a very visible place (on the dash right in
> front of you). Connect the two LEDs in anti-parallel so whichever direction
> there is more than about 2V difference, one of these LEDs will light up.
> Connect the other side of the 2 LEDs to a voltage divider that goes from
> pack+ to pack- and which in rest outputs the same voltage as at the tap.
> If you have an even number of cells/modules then this voltage divider is
> simply two identical resistors in series across the pack so the center
> point
> is at exactly half pack voltage. If you have an odd number, one of the two
> resistors needs to be a little bigger than the other (or use 2 in series or
> use a potmeter in between the two resistors so you can fine-tune the
> divider
> to be equal to the tap.
> Alternative could be a simple cheap zero-centered meter as often used in
> the
> current meters (can measure positive and negative) and place that instead
> of
> the two LEDs. Any imbalance between the two pack halves is indicated by the
> LEDs or this meter.
> Size the resistors so they allow for a small current, enough to light the
> LEDs
> or move the meter - you can easily test this by deliberately tapping the
> pack
> one cell too high/low and watching the result.
> for example, if you have a 120V pack then you will tap this at the 60V
> point
> and to get a 1mA through one of two red LEDs at that voltage when you have
> an
> (arbitrarily) 6V deviation between tap and the average of the pack, then
> you
> need a resistance divider of 10k + 10k Ohm. Note that this put a constant
> drain of 6mA
> on the pack - not a whole lot since it needs almost a week before it
> drains 1Ah,
> so even a moderate 100Ah pack would last almost 2 years from full to dead.
> But it is something to be aware of and disconnect when you store an EV.
> The approach with the needle meter is more sensitive since those typically
> have
> 100uA full scale so you would use at least 10 times bigger resistance value
> and this leads to 1/10th of the drain.
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info
> www.proxim.com
>
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
> message is prohibited.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Sean Korb via EV
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:41 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery
>
> This sub-subject gets done to death pretty regularly but I like gathering
> what I hear from both camps.  Definitely going to use a BMS but I really
> like the non-BMS workaround of getting *two* expensive battery packs and
> using a really simple gauge that shows their comparative voltage.  If one
> is sagging more than the other, pull over and find out what is wrong.  If
> you have a smart BMS... it takes care of it for you until you can get home
> ;)
>
> sean
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> > In your case, *you* were the BMS.
> > But you were lucky that you noticed the lower end voltage and knew
> > something was off.
> > You were lucky that the charger finished charging without cooking the
> > other cells to death You were lucky that the bad cell was a short and
> > not a partial failure or you might not have detected it in time or
> > faced a much more severe situation than a shorted cell.
> > Anyone less knowledgeable than you about your EV (and that would be
> > 99+ percent of all drivers) would not have caught this failure and
> > continued until disaster, so your vehicle can be used by you alone,
> > because you are an essential part of that vehicle! (namely, the BMS)
> > It looks like you just confirmed the thing that you tried to disprove...
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Chief Scientist
> > Proxim Wireless
> >
> > office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_wat

Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery

[Sean Korb via EV]

That is Brilliant!  I love living in the future :)  And I love that my pack
will cost somewhat less for the same KVA.

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> The Lee Hart alternative of this solution is to have only a single pack,
> add a (very low current) tap in the center of the pack, connected to two
> super-bright LEDs mounted in a very visible place (on the dash right in
> front of you). Connect the two LEDs in anti-parallel so whichever direction
> there is more than about 2V difference, one of these LEDs will light up.
> Connect the other side of the 2 LEDs to a voltage divider that goes from
> pack+ to pack- and which in rest outputs the same voltage as at the tap.
> If you have an even number of cells/modules then this voltage divider is
> simply two identical resistors in series across the pack so the center
> point
> is at exactly half pack voltage. If you have an odd number, one of the two
> resistors needs to be a little bigger than the other (or use 2 in series or
> use a potmeter in between the two resistors so you can fine-tune the
> divider
> to be equal to the tap.
> Alternative could be a simple cheap zero-centered meter as often used in
> the
> current meters (can measure positive and negative) and place that instead
> of
> the two LEDs. Any imbalance between the two pack halves is indicated by the
> LEDs or this meter.
> Size the resistors so they allow for a small current, enough to light the
> LEDs
> or move the meter - you can easily test this by deliberately tapping the
> pack
> one cell too high/low and watching the result.
> for example, if you have a 120V pack then you will tap this at the 60V
> point
> and to get a 1mA through one of two red LEDs at that voltage when you have
> an
> (arbitrarily) 6V deviation between tap and the average of the pack, then
> you
> need a resistance divider of 10k + 10k Ohm. Note that this put a constant
> drain of 6mA
> on the pack - not a whole lot since it needs almost a week before it
> drains 1Ah,
> so even a moderate 100Ah pack would last almost 2 years from full to dead.
> But it is something to be aware of and disconnect when you store an EV.
> The approach with the needle meter is more sensitive since those typically
> have
> 100uA full scale so you would use at least 10 times bigger resistance value
> and this leads to 1/10th of the drain.
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info
> www.proxim.com
>
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
> message is prohibited.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Sean Korb via EV
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:41 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bicycle battery
>
> This sub-subject gets done to death pretty regularly but I like gathering
> what I hear from both camps.  Definitely going to use a BMS but I really
> like the non-BMS workaround of getting *two* expensive battery packs and
> using a really simple gauge that shows their comparative voltage.  If one
> is sagging more than the other, pull over and find out what is wrong.  If
> you have a smart BMS... it takes care of it for you until you can get home
> ;)
>
> sean
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> > In your case, *you* were the BMS.
> > But you were lucky that you noticed the lower end voltage and knew
> > something was off.
> > You were lucky that the charger finished charging without cooking the
> > other cells to death You were lucky that the bad cell was a short and
> > not a partial failure or you might not have detected it in time or
> > faced a much more severe situation than a shorted cell.
> > Anyone less knowledgeable than you about your EV (and that would be
> > 99+ percent of all drivers) would not have caught this failure and
> > continued until disaster, so your vehicle can be used by you alone,
> > because you are an essential part of that vehicle! (namely, the BMS)
> > It looks like you just confirmed the thing that you tried to disprove...
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Chief Scientist
> > Proxim Wireless
> >
> > office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_wat

Re: [EVDL] Aluminum-Air-Water Primary Battery Backup for LiIon Pack

[Sean Korb via EV]

That could make some sense if they are inexpensive.  It could be used like
a spare tire or like we use jumpers on an ICE if the battery goes dead.
It's enough to get to the charging station if we miscalculate and get
stranded between urban centers.   It probably would make sense to have them
on a tow truck if it was cheap enough... that is, cheaper than a tow.

sean

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 1:15 PM, len moskowitz via EV 
wrote:

> Ben wrote:
>
>
>  ...these batteries are not rechargeable.
>>
>
>
> I noted in the title that these are primary batteries.
>
>
> Wouldn't you like to have one of these as a backup when your LiIons go
> dead? For 60 pounds of weight, you'd get 1000 miles of range, with a few
> hundred miles of range between each plain water fill-up.
>
>
> If the price was right, this might be a smart way to go.
>
>
>
>  You'd have to re-refine the aluminum oxide into metallic aluminum...
>>
>
>
> Or exchange the anodes.
>
>
> If you used the pack only as a backup, you might never exhaust its
> capacity.
>
>
>
> Len Moskowitz
>
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>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum-Air-Water Primary Battery Backup for LiIon Pack

[Sean Korb via EV]

If it's cheaper than renting an ICE car for long trips or even the same
price, that could really work.

sean

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Bill Dennis via EV 
wrote:

> The recharge efficiency, I believe, is between only 15% - 20%.  But I don't
> see it as much of an issue, since most people would be using the aluminum
> battery only as a range extender, not in daily use.  The Phinergy test car
> relies mostly on lithium cells for its primary mobility, employing the
> Al-air battery  to recharge the lithium cells during extended trips.
>
> When using the Phinergy cells, you need to stop and replace the electrolyte
> every 200-to-300 miles.  The aluminum itself lasts longer.  Interesting, I
> think the battery actually gains weight as you use it, since the
> atmospheric
> oxygen that combines with the aluminum stays within the cell until you pump
> it out and exchange it for fresh electrolyte at the above-mentioned 200-300
> miles.
>
> Bill
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL
> Administrator
> via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2015 10:40 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum-Air-Water Primary Battery Backup for LiIon
> Pack
>
> Metal-air batteries seem to be pretty good for hearing aids.  For EVs, I'm
> not so sure.  The main problem is that they're primary batteries - not
> rechargeable.  When they're discharged, you have to rebuild them.  (Some
> people call them metal fuel cells.)
>
> Alcan and Unique Mobility worked with Aluminum-Air batteries in the late
> 1980s.  They had a prototype system running in an Electrek EV (UM's
> intriguing limited production purpose-built EV) but eventually concluded it
> wasn't practical.
>
> In the 1990s, an Israeli company, Electric Fuel Corporation, developed Zn-
> Air batteries with rebuildable zinc "cassettes."  They collaborated with
> the
> German Post on a trial program of EVs using these batteries.  After several
> years, the Post concluded that it wasn't a viable system. Electric Fuel
> seems to have pretty much abandoned Zn-Air battery research and now
> concentrates on conventional battery chemistries for industrial, medical,
> and military uses.
>
> http://www.efbpower.com/oem/
>
> This isn't to say it's hopeless, just that there seem to be some
> substantial
> hurdles for metal-air batteries in EVs.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information:
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>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Aluminum: EVLN: Miners pin hopes on Electric copper-cars

[Sean Korb via EV]

I think Aluminum is fine though it does need special handling to be safe
and reliable.  But if your motivation is economic... that may point to a
very unsafe plan of cutting corners at every aspect of the design and
construction.  When dealing with electricity, don't go cheap.  It never
works out.

sean

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 6:05 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> I have seen volume produced cheap motors and transformers wound with Alu
> wire, it resembled the usual copper "magnet wire" but once I scratched
> off the insulating Enamel layer, I could not solder it and it was white,
> not the copper-yellow color and stiffer than I expected, so then I
> realized it was Alu.
> At my home, the electric supply is coming into my service panel using
> Alu wires, but all house wiring is copper. I still need to re-do the
> attachment of the Alu wire into the service panel as the insulation on
> one wire is discolored right next to the attachment point, so apparently
> it does not make good contact and will fail when we draw high currents.
> Luckily I have disabled both Airco and electric dryer, the two top power
> users, so before that I re-dedicate one (or both) of them for Electrical
> Vehicle fast charging, I will redo the wire and make sure it is clean,
> gooped and tight.
>
> Seeing this wire in the service panel tells me that probably all of the
> underground wiring in our park is Alu (there are several concrete
> pad-mounted transformers spread around the park, each receiving power
> and feeding some 100 homes at a time via underground wiring)
>
> Also the high voltage overhead power lines in the distribution network
> between substations uses Alu for the wires, often wound around a steel
> core for strength. I hear the overhead wires wiggle and making sound in
> a nearby line, but PG&E confirms that this is of no concern - even
> though the movement is occasionally so strong that it vibrates the
> towers. Note that this is not wind-movement. I suspect that purely the
> magnetic field of the lines causes them to vibrate at a resonant
> frequency because I hear it on wind still days. That is also a reason
> that cables are stranded: to resist the flexing due to movement of the
> cable.
>
> Another place where I have seen solid alu wire with a thin copper
> coating is in Coax cables, where the high frequent energy is only
> penetrating the "skin" of the conductor anyways, so even if the core was
> made from plastic with a copper coating, it would be electrically
> equivalent. Though it also has mechanical properties, so that is why it
> is made from Alu instead.
> The shielding outside layer of a coax cable typically has an alu foil
> and thin copper wires woven cross-wise.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL
> Administrator via EV
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 1:58 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum: EVLN: Miners pin hopes on Electric
> copper-cars
>
> On 14 Apr 2016 at 13:15, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
> > So is aluminum that such a good idea for power line/wiring use of any
> kind?
>
> Aluminum wire has been used for larger (stranded) power cables for many
> decades, and it's given good service.  You do have to size it larger
> because
> of its higher resistance, and use Noalox or other goop on the
> connections to
> prevent oxidation from raising the resistance at the connection.
>
> For a while, IIRC something over 4 decades ago, solid AL building wire
> in
> #12 and #14 was used in place of #14 and #14 for residential branch
> circuits.  It proved to be unreliable and hazardous.  I think that was
> because the solid (vs stranded) wire deformed too much under receptacle
> and
> switch terminal screws.  With thermal cycling the connections loosened,
> developed oxidation, and heated up.  There were some home fires as a
> result.
>  But AL is fine in larger sizes and in stranded type.
>
> I don't think I'd use it for an EV where it had to withstand constant
> flexing.  It might be usable in motors, but I think (though I'm  not an
> engineer) that efficiency would suffer somewhat.
>
> One thing to consider about the long term use of AL over CU is that
> reducing
> bauxite to aluminum uses a lot of energy.  AL wire is currently cheaper
> than
> CU for a given power capacity, but if energy costs increase
> substantially, I
> wonder if that could change the equation.
>
>

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Prof. Clare Grey defending her LiO2 (fluffy carbon) battery paper

[Sean Korb via EV]

This is the sort of thing where I should study the paper, read the dissents
and then give my completely unscientific opinion as if it were fact.  I
don't even play a scientist on TV :)

It sounds s bit like an Aluminum/Air battery which *is* lightweight and
powerful... and very difficult to recharge short of sending it back to the
bauxite mine.  Lithium exposed to air is highly reactive... and exposed to
about anything else like water it is explosive!  (Well they H2 gas given
off in the reaction is explosive).  If she can control that in any way,
that's phenomenal even if all we get is a disposable battery.  Just sitting
on the sidelines, this kind of research is fascinating!

sean

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 6:23 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
>
> http://qz.com/678040/doubts-have-been-raised-about-a-cambridge-professors-acclaimed-battery-breakthrough/
> Doubts have been raised about a Cambridge professor’s acclaimed battery
> breakthrough
> May 07, 2016  Steve LeVine
>
> [image
>
> https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/battery-e1462568109627.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=768
> (Reuters/Regis Duvignau)
> ]
>
> Scientists have disputed a claimed breakthrough in one of the most
> promising
> fields of advanced battery research, casting fresh doubt on efforts to
> leapfrog current lithium-ion technology.
>
> The questions have been raised about an advance announced by Clare Grey, a
> prominent battery researcher at Cambridge University, who created a stir in
> October with a paper published [
> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/350/6260/530
> ] by the prestigious peer-reviewed journal Science. In the paper, Grey
> described a breakthrough with “lithium-air,” a theoretical technology that,
> if it could be made to work, could possess more than five times the energy
> density of current lithium-ion batteries, and roughly the same density as
> gasoline.
>
> Such a system would solve the shortcomings of current lithium-ion
> batteries,
> which are costly and weigh too much to allow electrics to compete with
> equivalently priced gasoline-propelled cars. Electric cars to be launched
> over the next few years from GM, Tesla, and others will cost $35,000 and go
> 200 miles, but if lithium-air were solved, such vehicles would go much
> farther, and cost much less.
> “New battery could power electric car from London to Edinburgh on a single
> charge,” a distance of 400 miles, read the headline at the UK’s Daily
> Telegraph [
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/11964217/New-battery-could-power-electric-car-from-London-to-Edinburgh-on-single-charge.html
> ], reporting on Grey’s Oct. 29 announcement.
>
> But in two dissents published at Science on May 6, researchers at seven
> universities and national laboratories in the US, China, and Australia
> contend that Grey’s paper contained errors, and that her claims could not
> be
> replicated. Grey replied in the same issue of the magazine, but did not
> appear to contest the substance of their objections.
>
> A battery’s energy is derived from the composition and action of its two
> electrodes. In this case, the theory is that air would be made to flow in
> and out of a battery, serving as one of the two electrodes, and essentially
> weightless. The second electrode would be highly energetic metallic
> lithium.
> Combined, such a system would produce a light, energetic battery that would
> challenge the gasoline-powered internal combustion engine head to head.
>
> A principal challenge faced by researchers, however, has been that
> lithium-air batteries have refused to recharge more than a few tens of
> times; the system has only grudgingly released the oxygen necessary for the
> air flow after it’s been absorbed. Leading US labs, discouraged by failed
> attempts to resolve such problems, have stopped trying [
>
> http://qz.com/214969/two-big-labs-most-promising-next-generation-battery-electric-car/
> ].
>
> But in her paper [
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151029152629.htm
> ], Grey and six researchers in her Cambridge group proposed resolving the
> recharge problem [
>
> http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/149ca550-7e30-11e5-a1fe-567b37f80b64.html#axzz47pIPq5jS
> ] (paywall) by involving two compounds as mediators— lithium iodide and
> water—along with fluffy carbon.
>
> No one appears to have previously combined all three compounds, at least
> for
> the purpose of a lithium-air battery. The result, Grey’s group reported,
> was
> a battery that charged and recharged 2,000 times—a remarkable achievement,
> if true. A decade more of work would be required to resolve other problems
> with lithium-air, but one big obstacle was lifted.
>
> Both dissents, however, say that the compound does not have the claimed
> impact. They say the special additive used by Grey’s group, lithium iodide,
> does not produce sufficient energy to force release of the air from the
> lithium hydroxide, and thus solve the recharging problem.
>
> “The breakthrough is not a bre

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big Battery Pack?

[Sean Korb via EV]

I'm trying to imagine the survivability rate of an F-350 Dually in a head
on collision with a semi.  A lot of selling a vehicle to customers is
perception, not what they might experience in the real world.

Most of what is needed is the perception of fun, and while other car buyers
have different priorities, this is the one that will win out, heavy, light,
armored or exposed.  If it seems not-fun; it won't sell.

Fortunately most EV sales are targeted well at this market :)

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 12:09 PM, Jukka Järvinen  wrote:

> I think there is an opening for this niche light vehicle market. It just
> has to be taken with extreme measures.
>
> If one could build that economic bullet-shaped
> Kevlar-Carbonfibre-Ceramic-nano-nano-nanotube car which would prevail on
> head-on collision with semi-truck... If it's light and beats the starts off
> from Model S crash test results. Then you get noticed and sales would be
> good.
>
> But as long as the tiny cars are associated to the furry-mobile on the Dumb
> and dumber movie  No sale.
>
> -Jukka
> p.s.- don't shoot the messenger...
>
> http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about
>
> 2015-09-29 14:56 GMT+03:00 Mark Abramowitz via EV :
>
> > I think that's part of the reason.
> >
> > EV or not, you don't see a lot of demand for tiny, light cars either.
> Part
> > of the reason is safety, or perceived safety, part may be visibility,
> part
> > of it is comfort, and frankly, a lot of people just can't get into very
> > small cars.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Sep 29, 2015, at 4:09 AM, paul dove via EV 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Easy,
> > > The only people buying EVs now are early adopters. It's new and most
> > people are afraid of them.
> > >
> > > People who already had a lead EV, people who only buy the latest tech,
> > and green people, those are the customer base.
> > > Elon Musk said that he would go to high society dinners and functions
> > and see a Prius parked next to Mazarattis, Mercedes, and all sorts of
> other
> > expensive car. He said it is a shame that a green person with moneys only
> > choice is a Prius.
> > > So, he decided to make an electric car for them. Only he wanted the
> best
> > EV and the best car ever. So naturally it sold. He had a target market
> and
> > filled a void. He also got the lastest tech people as well.
> > > The rest of the auto makers are making EVs because the government makes
> > them so naturally they inferior.
> > > As far a a light efficient car, there is no market. Small cars have
> > never sold well unless they were cool like the Mini.
> > > Paul
> > >  From: rayfellow via EV 
> > > To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> > > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2015 11:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The Big EV Debate> Go for Small or Big
> Battery
> > Pack?
> > >
> > > In 2012 I was helping Oliver Kuttner promote his VLC or Very Light Car.
> > It
> > > was very aerodynamic too (0.16 drag). His team won the X prize in 2008
> -
> > > getting 108 or so MPG with fuel. The car he had in California was
> > electric.
> > > It had a 10KWh battery and would go 100 miles between charges - It
> > weighed
> > > under 1,000 pounds. I rode in the car some 50 miles or so, and was
> > impressed
> > > with the ride, comfort etc. It carried 4 passengers.
> > >
> > > About this time Tesla came out with their car - Big battery and heavy.
> I
> > > thought that the VLC would be as popular as the Tesla.. Boy was I
> wrong!
> > No
> > > one seemed impressed that the VLC would go a mile on 100wh vs the 300wh
> > for
> > > the Tesla.
> > >
> > > I thought that both would be well recieved. Alas the VLC still sits
> > waiting
> > > for traction. No one seems interested in it. I wondered why? The only
> > answer
> > > I can come up with is the cost of electricity is relitively cheap
> > compared
> > > to liquid fuel. The difference in per mile costs for an efficient EV
> vs a
> > > heavy user is still not all that much.
> > >
> > > I have pondered this. Maybe there are other reasons too - but
> seriously,
> > > none of the current EV's comes close to Aptera or VLC in efficency..
> and
> > yet
> > > no one wants them.
> > >
> > > --
> > > View this message in context:
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-The-Big-EV-Debate-Go-for-Small-or-Big-Battery-Pack-tp4677803p4677812.html
> > > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -- next part --
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <
> >
> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150929/ba73cc88/attachment.htm
> 

Re: [EVDL] Watt-Hr Motorcycle Efficiency...

[Sean Korb via EV]

Aerodynamics come into play at higher speeds but at low speeds it's not as
important.

I had fun playing with this tool

http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculate%20HP%20For%20Speed.php

I plugged in some street speeds and frontal area makes a really big
difference over 40MPH.

sean


On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 3:23 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 12 Nov 2015 at 11:59, Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV wrote:
>
> > Considering the rule of EVs efficiency of 250Watt-hr per mile on a 2500
> lbs
> > compact car,  May it apply same in order to calculate the energy
> efficiency of
> > a prototype motorcycle?
>
> Maybe, but remember that a  bike's aerodynamic qualities are significantly
> worse than a car's.  This is because the bike's rider adds quite a bit of
> wind resistance.
>
> Another (possibly better) way to estimate the EV bike's energy efficiency
> might be to look at a similar ICE bike's fuel efficiency.
>
> Taking the efficiency difference into account, an 8kWh lithium battery,
> fully discharged, provides about the same range as a gallon of gasoline.
> So
> if your car got 35mpg as an ICEV, it should get around 230Wh/mi as an EV.
> If your motorcycle got 100mpg as an ICEV, it should use around 80 Wh/mi as
> an EV.
>
> Another way is to check the EV Album for similar vehicles.  For example:
>
> http://evalbum.com/5125
>
> This is a 450lb conversion bike with an 84v, 30ah (2520Wh) LiFePO4 battery.
> The range is listed as 40mi, so that's 63 Wh/mi.
>
> Or this one:
>
> http://evalbum.com/5128
>
> This has a 768Wh battery and a range of 15 miles for an energy usage of
> 51.2
> Wh/mi.  However, the top speed is only 35mph, so the bikes' relatively poor
> aerodynamics may not play a very large role here.
>
> This bike can do 60mph:
>
> http://evalbum.com/5114
>
> Even though it weighs only 176lb, it has a 3990 (!) Wh battery and a range
> of 50 miles, which works out to about 80 Wh/mi.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
>
> ___
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Melted fuse leg (not blown fuse!)

[Sean Korb via EV]

That exact thing happened to me on my ICE Pantera.  I wired the cooling
fans with an Auto Zone inline 30A fuse and the Auto Zone relay that I used
to trigger it blew in the closed position.  The constant load heated the
plastic and burnt the fuse holder without blowing the fuse.

Now I use a fuse in a Siemens block mounted on the bulkhead with a Bosh
relay.  I figured I got what I paid for.

sean

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Jay Summet via EV 
wrote:

>
>
> On 01/04/2016 09:59 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
>
>> Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>>
>>> Has anybody ever melted the plastic and holder of an Automotive ATC
>>> fuse, without blowing the fuse itself? Impressively melted photos here:
>>> http://www.summet.com/blog/2016/01/04/melted-fuse-leg/
>>>
>>
>> Two possibilities occur to me:
>>
>> 1. Fuseholder not rated for the current. 30 amps is pretty high for a
>> simple quick-connect type terminal. You normally don't use them above 15
>> amps unless they are specially made for more, or have good cooling.
>>
>> There's a good reason that high-current fuseholders are made of
>> bakelite, ceramic, or some other non-meltable non-combustible material.
>> Low-current ones get made out of cheaper meltable plastics.
>>
>>
> I believe the fuse holder and fuse came as a single package from Autozone,
> so they SHOULD both be rated at the 30 amp fuse rate.but I agree it
> doesn’t exactly look like an especially high quality/current fuse-holder.
>
> I've ordered a replacement that is slightly "beefer" looking but still out
> of plastic. 8 GA wire and 40 amp fuse in a package with the holder.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/391180385602
>
> (But I'll also be driving to AutoZone and/or Napa tomorrow to see what is
> available locally)
>
>
> 2. Fake fuse. Some outfits sell really cheap no-name fuses that are
>> basically just any old piece of scrap metal in a fuseholder. Who knows
>> at what current it will blow (or *if* it will blow at all).
>>
>>
> It was an Autozone part...
>
> Jay
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Has Tesla gone too far?

[Sean Korb via EV]

This will not be unique to Tesla.  Toyota is using Kubernetes and
cloud applications to maintain operation of their dashboards and
entertainment systems, it makes sense that as the cost for cloud
services goes down and micro controllers costs stabilize more
predictive analytics will be used for all features of driving even
with an ICE (Maybe especially for an ICE).  The business model pulls
the manufacturer in this direction as well. You no longer invest in an
object materially, you pay for the license to use an object.

That's why I see this list as the last hope for open source and DIY
car operation.  I'm hoping we can find the right balance in divorcing
a car company and its services while maintaining self-service for long
trouble-free operation.  Maybe even ripping the brand labels off might
be the way to take care of this so that a company doesn't chase down
its reputation.  But they will never design a car for DIY  repair and
operation.

Another angle to work on this is politics, but frankly I think
everyone is so overwhelmed the DIY movement will get little traction
for legislative and regulatory support.

sean


On 9/21/18, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
> Disabling a salvage Tesla in this way is criminal.  The car just had
> cosmetic damage. I could understand if the pack or motive parts were
> involved.  Not this.  I may not buy a Tesla because of this.  The Kona is
> looking good now. Lawrence Rhodes
> https://youtu.be/okLgtYgnd7A
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>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] 600 dollar answer to a 3000 dollar problem.

[Sean Korb via EV]

You could make one with some discards.  A couple of Honda radiators
would fit in a cooler of ice water and you could build the ducting
with PVC.  I think you would need 2 to get the CFM  but math says to
get the 2" radiator inlets to go to a 4 inch duct you would actually
need 4 radiators.  Still, you can pick these up by weight and glue any
holes shut since they won't be under more than 30psi of icewater and
ambient pressure for the air.



On 12/12/18, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
> I like the fact that the aircraft one doesn't add humidity to the air.
> (Blowing air directly over the ice as in the video definitely
> would...only useful in very dry climates.)
>
> Yes, they would both work with dry ice, but then you'd have to buy the
> dry ice, and be careful to not close your windows or you may suffocate,
> which may counteract the cooling effect.
>
> https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/01/health/dry-ice-death/index.html
>
> Jay
>
> On 12/12/18 7:13 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>> This is used on small aircraft.
>> https://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/arctic-air-portable-air-conditioner-52-qt-dual-fan-12-volt.html?utm_source=google_shopping&m=simple&mrkgcl=596&mrkgadid=3215423012&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Aircraft+Supplies&adpos=1o1&creative=295428069985&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgMPgBRDDARIsAOh3uyI_4GkdUBSezWq4iv8sCXKvs336DhdquD1-3qEoeDga7UTDz7OzTLsaAiXUEALw_wcB
>>
>> This is someone's hack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbr_AvfPGkA
>> Both would work in an EV. Might work with dry ice.  Lawrence Rhodes
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf CAN Bus Man in the Middle

[Sean Korb via EV]

Thanks Tom, this gives us a lot of room to build.  We could even have
real time R or RShiny output to a display to do trends and
predictions.

sean

On Sun, Mar 12, 2017 at 6:07 AM, Tom Parker via EV  wrote:
> I wrote a man in the middle for the leaf battery communication. It uses
> can4python and Kayak's kcd format to describe the signals. It probably only
> works on Linux. Source code is here
> https://carrott.org/git/leaf-can-utils.git
>
> It decodes all the messages received on one interface (from the battery)
> into signals, lets me change their values, and then re-encodes them back
> into the can bus format, recalculates the new checksum when necessary and
> sends them out the other interface (to the car).
>
> Yesterday I spent some time testing it on a Gen 1 leaf at
> https://bluecars.nz
>
> We cut the can bus wires inside the battery box, just after they go through
> the water proof connector to the outside and connected about 1 metre of thin
> figure 8 wire to each side of the cut. This let us access the bus on the car
> and the bus on the battery while the battery was plugged in under the car.
> It's possible to get enough slack in the internal battery loom to feed the
> connector all the way through the machined hole and make room for some extra
> wires to pass through.
>
> With the two pairs connected together, the car behaved normally, going into
> ready and spinning the wheels.
>
> The BMS module terminates the bus so we connected a termination resistor to
> the car side of the cut and used termination on the CAN interface talking to
> the battery. We plugged the other end of the man in the middle to the OBD2
> port and didn't use termination.
>
> The MitM just worked.
>
> The car is very tolerant of errors on the CAN bus. You can stop the battery
> messages and it goes into turtle mode and all the battery info disappears
> off the instrument cluster. When you re-start the battery messages it goes
> back to normal mode and the battery info reappears. Start-up is quite
> critical, if you don't let the battery send it's start up messages the car
> doesn't go into ready mode. The car never shut down or went into a permanent
> turtle mode while I was messing with data on the bus -- it always went back
> to normal mode if I restored the unmodified messages flow from the BMS. I
> modified the data in nearly every field to see what would happen.
>
> The car will go into ready and turn the wheels even when it cannot send
> messages to the battery. This means the startup sequence doesn't involve a
> car to battery handshake, even if the car is expecting some startup messages
> from the battery within a time window. The "check engine" light comes on and
> it does record some DTCs:
> * P3180 (EVC-249) VCM detects an error signal that is received from LBC via
> CAN communication for 0.02 seconds or more.
> * P3183 (EVC-250) After a lapse of 0.3 seconds from M/C RELAY ON, the
> following state remains for 2.8 seconds or more: LBC's calculation result to
> the VCM-set example question is incorrect.
>
> My MitM only works in one direction (from the battery to the car) and it
> turns out my CAN bus setup wouldn't let two programs play together, so when
> I started a CAN repeater (candump -b) to copy data from the car to the
> battery I got corrupted frames and no buffer space errors. I'm going to make
> the MitM work in both directions to resolve this.
>
> If you play a different car's battery messages into this car, it does not go
> into ready. I didn't spend much time on this and I didn't write code to
> start the BMS messages at the right time, I just started playing the
> recording of a running BMS and switched the car on. One experiment that I
> should have tried was to start the car with it's real battery and then
> switch to messages recorded from a different car. There are some new DTCs
> when you try to start a the car while playing messages recorded from another
> car including
>
> * P3102 Li-ion Battery ID Registration must be performed if the Li-ion
> battery controller or VCM is replaced.
>
> The next experiment is to swap in a BMS module from another car.
>
> I figured out some more of the BMS protocol by messing with the data and
> seeing how the car reacted.
>
> The Fuel Gauge display on the instrument cluster is powered by the GIDs
> signal (the first 10 bits of 0x5BC), not the state of charge signal (first
> 10 bits of 0x55B). I guess it knows how many GIDS is "full" because the
> battery will have fewer gids and still read full as it ages.
>
> 0x5BC bits 36-39 (ie the high nibble of the 5th byte) somehow effects the
> Fuel Gauge, lower numbers mean more bars, all other things being the same.
> Maybe this is used to calculate how many GIDs each bar is worth? I haven't
> explored this.
>
> The battery capacity gauge (the bars outside the fuel gauge) is controlled
> by a muxed field, when 0x5BC bits 32-35 (ie the low nibble of the 5th byte)
> is 0x3, 0x5BC bits 16-19 (ie the low nibble of the

Re: [EVDL] All composite 63 Vette EV body out of the mold.

[Sean Korb via EV]

Lotus did a similar chassis execution with their Europa back in the
day.  The transmission was even used as a frame member with chassis
links attached!  Composites have come a long way since then so best of
luck, this one could stick.  The older I get the less comfortable I am
in low slung cars from an era before crash testing (that I sincerely
adore) so please hurry :)

cheers,
sean

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 10:27 AM, jerry freedomev via EV
 wrote:
>Hi All,
>   Things are moving along in my 63 Vette looking 
> EV project.   The body, hood, doors were pulled out of the molds Friday so 
> now the fun begins!! ;^)
>   It still has some touchup, fitting the doors 
> but should have it home Friday.   The shop with the mold which normally make 
> drag racer bodies, USBody,  were amazed how strong it was with my layup 
> inside to make it structural as going to be a unibody/monocoque with a 
> composite chassis bonded into a single piece.
> It is the male mold for my actual production one 
> which I'll modify some to make more aero, easier, stronger to build  at less 
> weight and make the production simplified molds  from it.The mold it came 
> out of has 10 parts vs mine will be 3 parts.  ;^)
> Now in the process of taking a 90 C4  Vette apart 
> for suspension, steering, A/C, etc which I'm selling the other parts to pay 
> for it and take the motor out which being fairly handicapped now, I just 
> can't do anymore.  So I sold the transmission for $100 but to get it they 
> have to take the motor, A/C,
>  etc out.
>   Once that is done Saturday I hope, I can handle the 
> rest by working until I hurt too much, rest, repeat at my home shop.
>Once the suspension is off I can design, build the 
> composite chassis and mate it all together fairly quickly.
> Right now using 2  6.7"motors because I own them, 
> I'm on SSI so lowest cost is a big factor,  but hopefully I can get an A/C EV 
> motor/controller that is hacked I can use.   But must be a shaft output I can 
> put on a diff .  Might have to change rear suspension so I can adapt a Tesla 
> to it now they have been hacked.   And hard to beat in power, cost as more 
> crash.
>  It should end up weighing 1800lbs or so with 2 
> Volt packs worth 600kw if I can use it which should get me 150, maybe -200 
> mile range as I drive it.
>  As now legal to build 325 25 yr old or more 
> looking cars/yr/model and 5k/yr /company with minimal/Hot rod regulations, my 
> goal is producing production lines of multiple models including El Camino, a 
> Van, A Brubaker Box style gull wing tiny van, 68 Mustang fastback, etc.
>  All done the same tech in  EVs drives to get EVs 
> being produced locally since big auto certainly isn't going to fast enough as 
> they have shown.
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
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-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Solar vehicles..just do the math.

[Sean Korb via EV]

I think you can get 15W/sqft and my Volt is not very efficient I often
need 16KW if I take it easy but even at 8kw you would need  533sq feet
of solar panels 23ft by 23ft.  So... not a great deal but with a 32KWh
battery pack you could charge it with a 23x23 panel on your roof in 4
hours.  That sounds like a better deal and very manageable.

sean





On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 wrote:
> It seems people are underestimating the capacity of solar panels on vehicles. 
>  It is a simple math problem. Encapsulation is also a challenge. However I 
> don't have the math to calculate how fast a 3.3kw solar system would push a 
> 3000 pound vehicle.  It seems you would need 8kw to push a Leaf up to 45mph.  
> This is just a guess but it seems to me that a simple calculation of weight, 
> CD, array size would be all you would need to calculate the usefulness of any 
> solar vehicle.  Stella Lux is capable of 45mph with a 1.5kw solar panel, a 
> weight of 850 pounds(it can carry 4 people) and a CD of .16.  If you have a 
> 22 ft x 8' vehicle like an aluminum Ultravan at 3,000 pounds (which is less 
> than a Leaf)  you would have good range but calculating how much solar would 
> fit, the CD which I think is under .3 and the speed possible with the max 
> panels is beyond me.  I do know that if you had a 3.3kw array you would be 
> able to charge a 24kw pack in 10 hours making a useful vehicle. It might be 
> able 
 to do 20mph on solar.  I bet Dave Cloud could figure it out.  The Dolphin is a 
very cleaver vehicle.  I wish I had some land to work on an Ultravan.  Lawrence 
Rhodes
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-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Solar vehicles..just do the math.

[Sean Korb via EV]

I kind of like where the math takes you.  I was imagining a world
where every individual  had a 450lb vehicle 50 feet long and 5 feet
wide that went 50MPH, self driving of course, with only 1 car per
person it could all be scheduled out to arrive to pick you up and
deliver to your destination in perfect traffic in perfect timing with
perfect predictability.

I really liked it.  It was a very relaxing concept.  Unfortunately
I've never been good at engineering humans and their behavior and am
yet to meet someone who does :)

I think our current market where "safer" means an escalation in heavy
armor to protect occupants from ever more heavily armored vehicles may
end badly and is antithetical to solar powered vehicles.  An armored
suit and a helmet is lightweight probably adequate for most but it's
hard to get people to wear them under the best of conditions.

sean

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 PM, Alan Arrison via EV  wrote:
> If you do the math, you will find solar vehicles make no sense, period.
>
> Al
>
>
>
> On 9/27/2017 10:01 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>>
>> Maybe you can do it as a hobbyist project.  I don't see it as a viable
>> mass
>> produced commercial product for a long time yet, if ever.
>>
>> It would have to be competitive with current vehicles at initial
>> dealer-lot
>> price, because that's all most buyers see.
>>
>> Also, it can't be too odd-looking.  Anything based on the Stella Lux
>> flunks
>> that one right off.
>>
>> A scant few buyers will/can pay more up front for low running costs, and a
>> few of THEM might accept a weird looking vehicle.  By then you're getting
>> down to a microscopic potential customer base.
>>
>> You're not going to find venture capitalists interested in that kind of
>> risk, and unfortunately we're currently experiencing a severe shortage of
>> Elon Musks.
>>
>> So if you want one, better get to work.
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>>
>>
>
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-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Hot wire

[Sean Korb via EV]

I do something similar.  You *must* regularly inspect the connections in
operation.  Even on the server side we had people inspect the connections
in the server room (with a really cool thermal photography system).  L6-30
is a good solution with #8 or #10 wire but it is like anything else, a
*small* imperfection can lead to thermal expansion frequency and it gets
worse.  I shine a laser thermometer on mine and physically touch the
connections.  I've never had to retighten them or redo one, but... I'm
always vigilant.  It needs servicing if it is more than a few degrees
warmer than the wire..

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 9:18 PM, Seth Rothenberg via EV 
wrote:

> We had an over temperature event here recently.  In Jan 2016, I bought a
> 2013 Nissan Leaf.  Around May, I bought an OpenEVSE.   I had saved six
> L6-30 power cords from servers I retired.  I removed the proprietary
> connectors and put on L6-30Rs to make extension cables.
> I used the combination for 18 months - usually 3 extensions and a 10-30
> adaptor I made.  The EVSE is limited to 24Amps.
>
> Last week, one of the junctions got hot enough to melt the plastic of the
> plug.
> Fortunately I was home to detect it.
>
> I took it out of service until I could replace the damaged L6-30R and then
> I monitored the connections.  One L6-30 junction and the 10-30 junction
> both show 100 Farenheit while in use.  Is that normal?   Maybe I need to
> exchange the surplus L630Rs with new ones.
>
> I plan to work on getting an L6-30R outlet near the parking space.  But it
> would be nice to have confidence in these cables.
>
> Thanks
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>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] Solar trailer calculation

[Sean Korb via EV]

You can see this coming to fruition in 11 or 12 decades.  With adoption of
self driving cars, the need for safety features will wane.  Then we can
build cars with the driver laying supine or prone depending on preference
with every car being a fairly uniform 150 foot long 8 foot wide ground
craft.  Short haul trucks would rarely deposit themselves onto the personal
vehicles and frankly, few personal vehicles would even be used.  Most of
these would be short delivery robots providing predicted goods and services
directly to your door. To go see families and friends people would
generally use ground taxi craft for short trips to public transportation
since all arrivals and destinations would be preprogrammed and logistically
calculated. Ownership would be rare.

It sounds kind of amazing and beautiful.  And kind of grotesque if you
aren't much of a conformer or team player.  I might have been looking at
too many Syd Meade paintings.

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> paul dove via EV wrote:
>
>> The batteries are part of the car since it won't go without them.. so
>> 2300 lbs?
>> That's pretty light but not enough to go 217 miles on a charge.
>>
>> 26KWh / 217 = 120Wh/m  They had to have done something else.
>>
>>
> Lots of "something elses". Good aerodynamics. Low frontal area. Flush
> windows. An absolutely smooth flat bottom. No front grille. High pressure,
> low rolling resistance tires (small by modern standards). Brakes that don't
> drag. A motor and controller so efficient that they don't need a
> power-consuming liquid cooling system.
>
>
> --
> "Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
> trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN
> 
> 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
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>
>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Messerschmitt KR200 Electric is in the works

[Sean Korb via EV]

I love it love it love it and... the rear steer is an abominable
notion as the first test rider will strongly attest.  But if they
build it in numbers you could use the shell over a nicely engineered
front steer piece, maybe off of a Dwarf racecar.  Anything that goes
over 3MPH is doomed with rear steer.  Cheap though.

sean

On 5/17/19, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>
> https://newatlas.com/messerschmitt-kr25e-velomobile/59719/
> Quirky Messerschmitt velomobile rides again
> May 16, 2019  Ben Coxworth
>
> [images  / iDMOOVE, Messerschmitt-Werke
> https://img.newatlas.com/messerschmitt-kr25e-velomobile-1.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&ch=Width%2CDPR&fit=crop&h=347&q=60&rect=0%2C54%2C901%2C507&w=616&s=a26a49e5f90c1f91289fbf1b6d22d040
> The Messerschmitt KR 25-E was unveiled at last month's Spezi specialty bike
> show in Germany(Credit: iDMOOVE)
>
> https://img.newatlas.com/messerschmitt-kr25e-velomobile-11.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&ch=Width%2CDPR&fit=max&q=60&w=616&s=67a8da3cbd779cd3055662a80ae15450
> The Messerschmitt KR 25-E's 36-volt/250-watt electric motor augments the
> rider's pedalling power, taking them up to...
>
> https://img.newatlas.com/messerschmitt-kr25e-velomobile-6.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=max&q=60&w=1000&s=3813d77080a5e79e27bf77e2178186f4
>
> https://newatlas.com/messerschmitt-kr25e-velomobile/59719/#gallery
> View gallery - 10 images
> ]
>
> When it comes to weird little old cars, the Messerschmitt Kabinenroller was
> one of the delightfully weirdest. Five years ago, we heard about a new
> pedal-electric version of the vehicle, known as the Veloschmitt. Although
> that model is no longer available, its successor has now entered production.
>
>   - The Messerschmitt KR 25-E has hydraulic disc brakes
>   - Achim Adlfinger obtained the official license for the Messerschmitt name
>   - The Messerschmitt KR 25-E features joystick-controlled rear-wheel
> steering
>   - The Messerschmitt KR 25-E weighs a claimed 85 kg (187 lb)
>
> The Veloschmitt was a two-seater velomobile, the latter term referring (more
> or less) to a recumbent tricycle enclosed in an aerodynamic body.
>
> Created by German designers Achim Adlfinger and Fred Zimmermann, it was
> discontinued after their Slovenian production partner went bankrupt. Now,
> however, Adlfinger tells us that he has teamed up with French partner Didier
> Helmstetter and velomobile designer Marcus von der Wehl to resurrect the
> concept, this time as the Messerschmitt KR 25-E.
>
> More streamlined in appearance than the Veloschmitt, the KR 25-E is a
> single-seater that uses a 36-volt/250-watt electric motor to augment the
> rider's pedalling power, taking them up to a top speed of 25 km/h (16 mph).
> Unusually, it features front-wheel drive and joystick-controlled rear-wheel
> steering. Electrical power is provided by a 36-volt/17.2-Ah lithium battery
> pack – a second pack can be added to increase the vehicle's range, although
> there's no word on what that range is.
>
> Its body is made of a fiberglass composite, and includes a cockpit cover
> that opens via remote control. The plexiglass "bubble" on that cover can
> also be removed, turning the 25-E into a convertible. The whole vehicle
> weighs a claimed 85 kg (187 lb), and can handle a maximum rider/cargo
> payload of 120 kg (265 lb).
> The Messerschmitt KR 25-E has front and rear suspension
>
> Some of its other features include front and rear suspension, hydraulic disc
> brakes, an LED control screen, a full LED lighting system with turn
> indicators, a Shimano 8-speed transmission with reverse, carbon composite
> wheels, an electric horn, a cargo trunk, and a padded bucket seat.
>
>
> Adlfinger says that the KR 25-E is now being produced by French velomobile
> company iDMOOVE [
> http://idmoove.com/
> ], although we're still waiting to hear back regarding pricing and
> availability. A larger and faster KR 45-E model is in the works, along with
> the pure-electric KR 200.
> [© newatlas.com]
> ...
> https://www.epowerforum.de/forum/threads/messerschmitt-kr-25-flitzer.660/
>  messerschmitt-kr-25 forum
> ...
> https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/09/nobe-100-electric-car-is-a-three-wheeled-dollop-of-retro-cuteness/
> Nobe 100 Electric Car Is A Three-Wheeled Dollop Of Retro Cuteness
> June 9th, 2018 ...
> https://cleantechnica.com/files/2018/06/Nobe-100-1.jpg
> ...
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Messerschmitt+KR200+electric
> search on  Messerschmitt KR200 electric
>
>
> + (niro causing soul delays)
> https://www.wardsauto.com/alternative-propulsion/want-kia-soul-ev-be-prepared-wait-longer
> Want a Kia Soul EV? Be Prepared to Wait Longer
> May 08, 2019  “Soul EV will probably be (coming to the U.S.) next year,”
> Michael Cole, chief ... The battery-electric version of the Niro arriving
> this month at Kia U.S. dealers has ...
> https://www.wardsauto.com/sites/wardsauto.com/files/styles/article_featured_standard/public/14706_2020_Soul_EV.jpg?itok=ryV2ijFF
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>

Re: [EVDL] Solectria E-10 differential

[Sean Korb via EV]

It looks a little like a Hewland differential
http://www.wolftronix.com/E10/images/P3260159.jpg

The housing might be special but I bet the gears are front axle from
an AWD of that era.  Only a few manufacturers of hypoid gears are out
there, less than in the '90s.  I bet if you took them out you can get
the numbers off of them and it might even be gears from a 4WD S10
front axle.  That's what I would have used.  You need a custom housing
because the stock 4WD axles have offset differentials and this one
looks like it is on center so it probably wasn't available the way
they wanted it.  The gears and bearings almost certainly are off the
shelf but it's probably hard to find exact lash specs.  You'll have to
use the bluing contact patch method and make some educated guesses if
we can't find the service data.

sean

On 5/29/19, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
> Well, I heard back from the mechanic -- he drained the differential oil to
> get a look at
> it and it was "a metal milkshake".  So the E-10's differential is basically
> shot; he
> thinks that the debris in the lube probably destroyed the bearings as well.
>
> So I'm hoping that someone out there can help out...
>
> Do you have contact information for anyone who might have worked at
> Solectria?  I'd like
> to pick their brains and see if I can get information on the E-10's
> differential, if any
> of the parts (gears/bearings) are off-the-shelf parts or if they were
> custom; what the
> gear ratio is, etc.
>
> I'll take whatever information I can get at this point.  My main hope is
> that we can find
> a differential somewhere that has approximately the same gear ratio and will
> fit the
> truck; best thing would be if we could find some off-the-shelf differential
> gears and
> bearings that we could use to replace the bad ones in this case.
>
> I'm certain that we'll be able to get something together to fix the problem,
> but if you
> have any information I can use, I'll gladly take it.  We've had this truck
> since 2001 and
> just replaced the battery pack with lithium-ion modules so I'm definitely
> not going to
> give up on it.
>
> Thanks,
> -Tom
>
> On 5/29/2019 10:18 AM, Tom Hudson via EV wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have a 1995 Solectria E-10 pickup that has developed some issues in the
>> drive train.
>> The main issue seems to be the custom differential that Solectria put
>> together for it --
>> I always assumed that the differential in there was a stock Chevy S-10
>> unit that they
>> flipped around so the drive shaft comes in the back, but realized today
>> that it's
>> actually a custom Solectria unit (it has "SOLECTRIA" on the side of the
>> casting).
>>
>> Just wondering if anyone on the list knows where I could find one of these
>> -- maybe
>> someone up in Massachusetts knows of leftover parts from Solectria?
>>
>> If not that, maybe if I could get information on whether the gears and
>> bearings they
>> used in the differential are stock parts?
>>
>> Also wondering if anyone has ever replaced the differential in one of
>> these trucks with
>> something else...
>>
>> The mechanic is looking at the unit now to see exactly what is wrong with
>> it, but I'd
>> like to be prepared for any eventuality. Any help appreciated.
>>
>> -Tom
>>
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
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>


-- 
Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
'65 Suprang,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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