Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Monday, December 1, 2014 5:05:43 AM UTC, yanniru wrote: > > Zibby, > > They may be interested, but they cannot publish such an interest and put > their careers at risk. > It is only emeritus types like myself that can put such speculations in > print. > What they can publish is the math behind the limited conclusion. > David Deutsch is the exception. > > Zappy > which one of us does that make the butch kangaroo? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
Zibby, They may be interested, but they cannot publish such an interest and put their careers at risk. It is only emeritus types like myself that can put such speculations in print. What they can publish is the math behind the limited conclusion. David Deutsch is the exception. Zappy On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:56 PM, wrote: > > > On Monday, December 1, 2014 4:24:38 AM UTC, yanniru wrote: >> >> That is exactly the same kind of correlation that Motl, Gharibyon, Penna >> and I are talking about. >> It is a form of cosmic entanglement. >> > > how do we know when an idea like cosmic entanglement is a good scientific > idea or a catch-all explanation? > >> >> However, if you recall I extrapolated from G&P's paper that black holes >> must be intelligent to be monogamous >> > > I remember you saying that. And maybe I think there's something going > on there as well. But then, the same problem just comes back as mentioned > at the top. What is the explanation of that abstract landscape, now to > include 'intelligent' - presumably consciousblack holes? What are they > talking about? Why are they interested in that topic? How does that get > inferred from an abstract theory, and how much else does that theory > explain on that abstract landscape? How much is predicted by that theory > before it comes up empirically? > > >> And in a post to Bruno I speculated the particle wave collapse may work >> on the same basis. >> > > same response as above > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Monday, December 1, 2014 4:24:38 AM UTC, yanniru wrote: > > That is exactly the same kind of correlation that Motl, Gharibyon, Penna > and I are talking about. > It is a form of cosmic entanglement. > how do we know when an idea like cosmic entanglement is a good scientific idea or a catch-all explanation? > > However, if you recall I extrapolated from G&P's paper that black holes > must be intelligent to be monogamous > I remember you saying that. And maybe I think there's something going on there as well. But then, the same problem just comes back as mentioned at the top. What is the explanation of that abstract landscape, now to include 'intelligent' - presumably consciousblack holes? What are they talking about? Why are they interested in that topic? How does that get inferred from an abstract theory, and how much else does that theory explain on that abstract landscape? How much is predicted by that theory before it comes up empirically? > And in a post to Bruno I speculated the particle wave collapse may work on > the same basis. > same response as above -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
That is exactly the same kind of correlation that Motl, Gharibyon, Penna and I are talking about. It is a form of cosmic entanglement. However, if you recall I extrapolated from G&P's paper that black holes must be intelligent to be monogamus. And in a post to Bruno I speculated the particle wave collapse may work on the same basis. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:51 PM, wrote: > > > On Monday, December 1, 2014 2:30:05 AM UTC, yanniru wrote: >> >> I have read that reference. It is obvious that you have not. >> But then almost everything you post here is baloney. >> So it may not matter if you read the paper or not. >> Richard >> > > I read and we even exchanged about it. But there are other kinds of > correlation showing up on a regular basis now. Such as this: > http://motls.blogspot.com/2014/11/chile-telescope-finds-mysterious-25.html > > I don't think the data driving wormhole speculation correlates with the > data driving the above correlation, for example. So for that reason it > isn't a case of wormholes can explain all the correlations. > > obviously 'wormholes' are not settled science in of themselves, and for > that reason they can explain as much as you like. Your likes probably > exceed mine. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Monday, December 1, 2014 2:30:05 AM UTC, yanniru wrote: > > I have read that reference. It is obvious that you have not. > But then almost everything you post here is baloney. > So it may not matter if you read the paper or not. > Richard > I read and we even exchanged about it. But there are other kinds of correlation showing up on a regular basis now. Such as this: http://motls.blogspot.com/2014/11/chile-telescope-finds-mysterious-25.html I don't think the data driving wormhole speculation correlates with the data driving the above correlation, for example. So for that reason it isn't a case of wormholes can explain all the correlations. obviously 'wormholes' are not settled science in of themselves, and for that reason they can explain as much as you like. Your likes probably exceed mine. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
I have read that reference. It is obvious that you have not. But then almost everything you post here is baloney. So it may not matter if you read the paper or not. Richard On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 9:25 PM, wrote: > > > On Monday, December 1, 2014 2:14:33 AM UTC, yanniru wrote: >> >> I posted a reference here that suggested how distant black holes could >> become correlated. >> http://arxiv.org/pdf/1308.0289v1.pdf >> > > I saw / have seen the argument...always read things you reference if see > them. What I would say is that each one of these emergent observations > may well have one or more potentially viable explanation. Those that don't, > have one or more in the future yet to come, let's allow. > > Call each one a little observation in some abstract landscape that allows > each one to be in its own single place in the sky (abstract landscape > because some involve correlations of distant objects) > > So there's an observed cosmology on this abstract landscape of all these > different locally one off phenomena. The problem with the explanations of > each one, then becomes whether two adjacent objects can be explained > together in such a way that the general explanation of both, independently > derives the two local explanations. > > Then three together, then a cluster, then the whole sky. > > At some point objects like "the historic cosmological view" need to be > included. And "the big bang". And then more widely things like "stable > enduring structure" and "biological life". > > The question is, how much of that abstract sky is being explained all > together. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Monday, December 1, 2014 2:14:33 AM UTC, yanniru wrote: > > I posted a reference here that suggested how distant black holes could > become correlated. > http://arxiv.org/pdf/1308.0289v1.pdf > I saw / have seen the argument...always read things you reference if see them. What I would say is that each one of these emergent observations may well have one or more potentially viable explanation. Those that don't, have one or more in the future yet to come, let's allow. Call each one a little observation in some abstract landscape that allows each one to be in its own single place in the sky (abstract landscape because some involve correlations of distant objects) So there's an observed cosmology on this abstract landscape of all these different locally one off phenomena. The problem with the explanations of each one, then becomes whether two adjacent objects can be explained together in such a way that the general explanation of both, independently derives the two local explanations. Then three together, then a cluster, then the whole sky. At some point objects like "the historic cosmological view" need to be included. And "the big bang". And then more widely things like "stable enduring structure" and "biological life". The question is, how much of that abstract sky is being explained all together. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
I posted a reference here that suggested how distant black holes could become correlated. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1308.0289v1.pdf Richard On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 9:07 PM, wrote: > > > On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:48:35 AM UTC, Liz R wrote: >> >> OK, I'm just curious to knowI don't know what plausible answers were >> provided, I don't recall any that addressed this point. Maybe I missed >> them, I don't have a lot of time to spend on this forum (or any forum...) >> >> I suppose if the amount of DM being annihilated is very small relative to >> the mass of a galaxy we wouldn't see any noticeable effect. Is it supposed >> to be relatively negligible? >> > > Liz - I've got to admit I've only just now seen your point in > terms of your actual line of inference. You are absolutely right of > course. How can a piece of data involve a dark energy / dark matter > interplay, with a calculated implication for the expansion of the universe, > if the same data cannot at least say something about smaller scales. You > are 100% in the logic IMHO. > > I'm sorry I didn't see it because I was thinking from a different angle. > That being a person piece of effort (unpublished) that expects the result. > Because of that I was trying to read you through the prism of my own inner > madness. > > But you're right. It isn't clear that Bruno or Bruce or anyone else > provide a response from the context you set up, which looks correct to me. > > If you are interested, Lubos Motl does a piece on this. I just looked on > his site but can't see it. But I definitely saw it there. > > Motl isn't to everyone's taste...not even mine...I wouldn't be able to > tolerate his views about climate science I shouldn't think. But he's a > brilliant guy all the same and no one disputes that much is true. He's also > an independent voice in terms of science. He's obviously not independent of > his own personality or personal biases. > > his view was fairly sceptical. Not the original science, but the media > distortion as he saw it. It's worth reading. Don't worry if you can't > follow everything, hardly anyone can. I don't have Motl's skills and > training or intellect, and rarely understand his whole point. Still find it > worthwhile. > > look for it here if you are keen http://motls.blogspot.co.uk/ > > In terms of my bit on the side workfor me it's very much linked to a > lot of other findings that are now beginning to show up everywhere at the > frontiers of cosmology. A few of them also treated by Motl (he doesn't shy > away even when he obviously doesn't have a strong answer). > > GRB's destroying 90's of life. Blackhole's with 'wormholes' between them. > Blackhole's with 'spooky' alignments despite being at opposite ends of the > universe. Those are all part of the same thing as the topic here, for me. > Those three I mention because they are all blogs he's done, which you might > look at even if you can't find the one in question re here. > > > > But then again, who is. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Monday, December 1, 2014 2:07:17 AM UTC, zib...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:48:35 AM UTC, Liz R wrote: >> >> OK, I'm just curious to knowI don't know what plausible answers were >> provided, I don't recall any that addressed this point. Maybe I missed >> them, I don't have a lot of time to spend on this forum (or any forum...) >> >> I suppose if the amount of DM being annihilated is very small relative to >> the mass of a galaxy we wouldn't see any noticeable effect. Is it supposed >> to be relatively negligible? >> > > Liz - I've got to admit I've only just now seen your point in > terms of your actual line of inference. You are absolutely right of > course. How can a piece of data involve a dark energy / dark matter > interplay, with a calculated implication for the expansion of the universe, > if the same data cannot at least say something about smaller scales. You > are 100% in the logic IMHO. > > I'm sorry I didn't see it because I was thinking from a different angle. > That being a person piece of effort (unpublished) that expects the result. > Because of that I was trying to read you through the prism of my own inner > madness. > > But you're right. It isn't clear that Bruno or Bruce or anyone else > provide a response from the context you set up, which looks correct to me. > > If you are interested, Lubos Motl does a piece on this. I just looked on > his site but can't see it. But I definitely saw it there. > > Motl isn't to everyone's taste...not even mine...I wouldn't be able to > tolerate his views about climate science I shouldn't think. But he's a > brilliant guy all the same and no one disputes that much is true. He's also > an independent voice in terms of science. He's obviously not independent of > his own personality or personal biases. > > his view was fairly sceptical. Not the original science, but the media > distortion as he saw it. It's worth reading. Don't worry if you can't > follow everything, hardly anyone can. I don't have Motl's skills and > training or intellect, and rarely understand his whole point. Still find it > worthwhile. > > look for it here if you are keen http://motls.blogspot.co.uk/ > > In terms of my bit on the side workfor me it's very much linked to a > lot of other findings that are now beginning to show up everywhere at the > frontiers of cosmology. A few of them also treated by Motl (he doesn't shy > away even when he obviously doesn't have a strong answer). > > GRB's destroying 90's of life. Blackhole's with 'wormholes' between them. > Blackhole's with 'spooky' alignments despite being at opposite ends of the > universe. Those are all part of the same thing as the topic here, for me. > Those three I mention because they are all blogs he's done, which you might > look at even if you can't find the one in question re here. > > > > But then again, who is. > that 'but then again, who is' was supposed to go under the point Motl is not independent of his own temperament and biases. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Monday, December 1, 2014 1:48:35 AM UTC, Liz R wrote: > > OK, I'm just curious to knowI don't know what plausible answers were > provided, I don't recall any that addressed this point. Maybe I missed > them, I don't have a lot of time to spend on this forum (or any forum...) > > I suppose if the amount of DM being annihilated is very small relative to > the mass of a galaxy we wouldn't see any noticeable effect. Is it supposed > to be relatively negligible? > Liz - I've got to admit I've only just now seen your point in terms of your actual line of inference. You are absolutely right of course. How can a piece of data involve a dark energy / dark matter interplay, with a calculated implication for the expansion of the universe, if the same data cannot at least say something about smaller scales. You are 100% in the logic IMHO. I'm sorry I didn't see it because I was thinking from a different angle. That being a person piece of effort (unpublished) that expects the result. Because of that I was trying to read you through the prism of my own inner madness. But you're right. It isn't clear that Bruno or Bruce or anyone else provide a response from the context you set up, which looks correct to me. If you are interested, Lubos Motl does a piece on this. I just looked on his site but can't see it. But I definitely saw it there. Motl isn't to everyone's taste...not even mine...I wouldn't be able to tolerate his views about climate science I shouldn't think. But he's a brilliant guy all the same and no one disputes that much is true. He's also an independent voice in terms of science. He's obviously not independent of his own personality or personal biases. his view was fairly sceptical. Not the original science, but the media distortion as he saw it. It's worth reading. Don't worry if you can't follow everything, hardly anyone can. I don't have Motl's skills and training or intellect, and rarely understand his whole point. Still find it worthwhile. look for it here if you are keen http://motls.blogspot.co.uk/ In terms of my bit on the side workfor me it's very much linked to a lot of other findings that are now beginning to show up everywhere at the frontiers of cosmology. A few of them also treated by Motl (he doesn't shy away even when he obviously doesn't have a strong answer). GRB's destroying 90's of life. Blackhole's with 'wormholes' between them. Blackhole's with 'spooky' alignments despite being at opposite ends of the universe. Those are all part of the same thing as the topic here, for me. Those three I mention because they are all blogs he's done, which you might look at even if you can't find the one in question re here. But then again, who is. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
OK, I'm just curious to knowI don't know what plausible answers were provided, I don't recall any that addressed this point. Maybe I missed them, I don't have a lot of time to spend on this forum (or any forum...) I suppose if the amount of DM being annihilated is very small relative to the mass of a galaxy we wouldn't see any noticeable effect. Is it supposed to be relatively negligible? On 1 December 2014 at 14:38, wrote: > > > On Friday, November 28, 2014 8:49:33 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: >> >> The point is that galaxies should be expanding in relation to bound >> systems like stars and the solar system, in a similar manner to the >> universe though for a different reason (so almost certainly not at the same >> rate). And that should be visible as we look back in time. So it's an acid >> test for this whole theory ... unless I screwed up, of course, which is why >> I was hoping people would comment a bit more cogently than the earlier >> reply I got (not from you) >> >> OK I see what you were saying. I don't know the answer but I think Bruno > then Bruce provided a plausible explanation for this. > > Just going on the fact the data is from a single source and goes back to > June and has not seen a large amount of panic, would suggest the finding is > tenuous at present. > > Where I was coming from, in posting it, was to lay down a marker as it > were, that this is one to watch. > > You're point was fair...I was somewhere at the time :O) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Friday, November 28, 2014 8:49:33 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: > > The point is that galaxies should be expanding in relation to bound > systems like stars and the solar system, in a similar manner to the > universe though for a different reason (so almost certainly not at the same > rate). And that should be visible as we look back in time. So it's an acid > test for this whole theory ... unless I screwed up, of course, which is why > I was hoping people would comment a bit more cogently than the earlier > reply I got (not from you) > > OK I see what you were saying. I don't know the answer but I think Bruno then Bruce provided a plausible explanation for this. Just going on the fact the data is from a single source and goes back to June and has not seen a large amount of panic, would suggest the finding is tenuous at present. Where I was coming from, in posting it, was to lay down a marker as it were, that this is one to watch. You're point was fair...I was somewhere at the time :O) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On 29 November 2014 at 11:59, Richard Ruquist wrote: > I have wondered if space is expanding by adding on more space, keeping the > space of say our galaxy intact. > Or is the actual space within our galaxy getting bigger, along with each > of us. > And if the latter, how would we know.? > > The expansion of the universe doesn't include bound systems, like atoms or galaxies. If it was purely a scale expansion that applied to everything in existence we couldn't of course know about it (probably...depending on the exact details of how it worked...) GR posits that space-time is a continuum, which means that any part of it is able to expand indefinitely, so it isn't adding more space at any particular point. It's probably gives a more accurate picture to assume space is infinite (or at least finite but unbounded) and that the objects in it - above a certain scale - are moving apart at a uniform rate, i.e. that the separation velocity increases uniformly with distance apart. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
Richard Ruquist wrote: I have wondered if space is expanding by adding on more space, keeping the space of say our galaxy intact. Or is the actual space within our galaxy getting bigger, along with each of us. And if the latter, how would we know.? Richard Space is expanding uniformly. But the rate is slow when measured over small distances, so the force pulling two nearby points apart is very small -- easily overcome by the gravitational attraction between large nearby bodies, such as the stars that make galaxies and clusters of galaxies. These hold their size and do not expand with the geral expansion. It is only more distant, non-bound galaxies that move apart. Bruce On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: LizR wrote: The point is that galaxies should be expanding in relation to bound systems like stars and the solar system, in a similar manner to the universe though for a different reason (so almost certainly not at the same rate). And that should be visible as we look back in time. So it's an acid test for this whole theory ... unless I screwed up, of course, which is why I was hoping people would comment a bit more cogently than the earlier reply I got (not from you) It is not at all clear what you are talking about. When you delete all context your point becomes obscured. Why the distinction between galaxies and other bound states? Galaxies and clusters of galaxies are as much gravitationally bound states as stars and solar systems. I don't understand why you should expect them to expand, unless dark matter is decaying and radiating energy out of the system. This is not happening at any noticeable rate, so what's the theory in question? Bruce -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
I have wondered if space is expanding by adding on more space, keeping the space of say our galaxy intact. Or is the actual space within our galaxy getting bigger, along with each of us. And if the latter, how would we know.? Richard On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > LizR wrote: > >> The point is that galaxies should be expanding in relation to bound >> systems like stars and the solar system, in a similar manner to the >> universe though for a different reason (so almost certainly not at the same >> rate). And that should be visible as we look back in time. So it's an acid >> test for this whole theory ... unless I screwed up, of course, which is why >> I was hoping people would comment a bit more cogently than the earlier >> reply I got (not from you) >> > > It is not at all clear what you are talking about. When you delete all > context your point becomes obscured. > > Why the distinction between galaxies and other bound states? Galaxies and > clusters of galaxies are as much gravitationally bound states as stars and > solar systems. I don't understand why you should expect them to expand, > unless dark matter is decaying and radiating energy out of the system. This > is not happening at any noticeable rate, so what's the theory in question? > > Bruce > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
LizR wrote: The point is that galaxies should be expanding in relation to bound systems like stars and the solar system, in a similar manner to the universe though for a different reason (so almost certainly not at the same rate). And that should be visible as we look back in time. So it's an acid test for this whole theory ... unless I screwed up, of course, which is why I was hoping people would comment a bit more cogently than the earlier reply I got (not from you) It is not at all clear what you are talking about. When you delete all context your point becomes obscured. Why the distinction between galaxies and other bound states? Galaxies and clusters of galaxies are as much gravitationally bound states as stars and solar systems. I don't understand why you should expect them to expand, unless dark matter is decaying and radiating energy out of the system. This is not happening at any noticeable rate, so what's the theory in question? Bruce -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
The point is that galaxies should be expanding in relation to bound systems like stars and the solar system, in a similar manner to the universe though for a different reason (so almost certainly not at the same rate). And that should be visible as we look back in time. So it's an acid test for this whole theory ... unless I screwed up, of course, which is why I was hoping people would comment a bit more cogently than the earlier reply I got (not from you) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:49:02 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: > > Still no comment on the fact (if it is a fact) that if galaxies are losing > mass thru dark matter annihilation, they should be expanding. > It's a fact, Bruno's estimate levels are too low at present obviously reasonable & accepted I wasn't avoiding comment on this. It's just that I think it's a possibility you may have lost the thread of what has been said. Easy to happen over a day and night. The recap is: - data indicating the polar opposite of the expectation arising from incumbent knowledge - early on you saw this was the implication rappeared to understand what issues were brought into play by that. - There's not a lot more that's in the logic, and first time next to say. - You are right first time round, the incumbent theory says diminishing dark matter reflects expansion of the universe. Or a galaxy. - But that has already been said now, explicitly or very directly by the implication of saying the same thing from the other direction, that the new data is saying dark matter diminishing reflects a contraction of the universe. Or a Galaxy. It's the polar opposite so saying one is saying the other. And it is for that reason I hesitate to reply because I don't know what new thing you wish to say. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
LizR wrote: Still no comment on the fact (if it is a fact) that if galaxies are losing mass thru dark matter annihilation, they should be expanding. The reports I have seen about possible detection of dark matter annihilation events suggest a rate that is far too low to have any appreciable effect on galactic dimensions or rotation profiles. Bruce -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
Still no comment on the fact (if it is a fact) that if galaxies are losing mass thru dark matter annihilation, they should be expanding. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:52:48 AM UTC, Liz R wrote: > > > On 26 November 2014 at 22:05, > wrote: > >> >> On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:50:00 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: >>> >>> And I said that it seemed to me that if dark matter was being destroyed >>> galaxies should be expanding, and asked if there was any observational >>> evidence to support this. >>> >> >> Liz, you said it right at the start...but the point is only valid one >> time. What you reason above restates the same point in a different form. >> > > I repeated it because the other poster ignored what I'd said the first > time AND made snarky comments showing he'd missed the point I was making, > hence I felt it was worthwhile repeating it. > > Anyway, the point still holds. Dark matter is responsible for much of the > structure of the universe, and if it's being turned into energy and > radiated away then its gravitational attraction goes with it. Hence > galaxies, held together by dark matter (as I Zwicky discovered in 1933 by > studying their rotation curves) should be expanding IF dark matter is being > annihilated, because the visible structure is rotating at the same speed > around a centre containing a decreasing amount of mass. > > So, if I've understood this theory correctly, galaxies should be getting > bigger. Can someone either explain how I've missed the point of the > theory OR tell me if there is evidence of galaxies growing larger due to > this effect? If not then I can happily forget this theory because it > predicts some startling observational evidence that doesn't exist. > prediction: this won't be going awayit'll ramp up independent corroboration. The idea of denying the reality (if that's what it proves to be) based on observations about dark matter needing to evaporate with exploding galaxies, has comedic flair, but I fear may also be prophetic. It's easier than denying the collapse in the two slit :O) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On 26 November 2014 at 22:05, wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:50:00 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: >> >> And I said that it seemed to me that if dark matter was being destroyed >> galaxies should be expanding, and asked if there was any observational >> evidence to support this. >> > > Liz, you said it right at the start...but the point is only valid one > time. What you reason above restates the same point in a different form. > I repeated it because the other poster ignored what I'd said the first time AND made snarky comments showing he'd missed the point I was making, hence I felt it was worthwhile repeating it. Anyway, the point still holds. Dark matter is responsible for much of the structure of the universe, and if it's being turned into energy and radiated away then its gravitational attraction goes with it. Hence galaxies, held together by dark matter (as I Zwicky discovered in 1933 by studying their rotation curves) should be expanding IF dark matter is being annihilated, because the visible structure is rotating at the same speed around a centre containing a decreasing amount of mass. So, if I've understood this theory correctly, galaxies should be getting bigger. Can someone either explain how I've missed the point of the theory OR tell me if there is evidence of galaxies growing larger due to this effect? If not then I can happily forget this theory because it predicts some startling observational evidence that doesn't exist. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:50:00 PM UTC, Liz R wrote: > > And I said that it seemed to me that if dark matter was being destroyed > galaxies should be expanding, and asked if there was any observational > evidence to support this. > Liz, you said it right at the start...but the point is only valid one time. What you reason above restates the same point in a different form. Based on the current worldview, the idea of dark energy gobbling dark matter, causing expansion to slow down.is nonsensical. Can't be adjustedcan't be made into sense. Not without getting into significant levels of fussy details. Which cannot be done without large discoveries first that shed dramatic light on what dark matter and energy actually are. Not sensibly anyway (i.e. whatever fussy detailed explanation they create, there will be exponentially many other different and disagreeable explanations that are logically identical in terms of size and robustness of the necessary guesses, for each next level of detail necessary to go down, in order to fussy up the job. so it's a really huge issue. If it isn't correct, that'll show in the developments and no more will be said. But if this finding stubbornly sticks around, and then starts showing up in other independent ways. That then becomes the line too far.too far to patch the cosmological model up with more dark stuff. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
And I said that it seemed to me that if dark matter was being destroyed galaxies should be expanding, and asked if there was any observational evidence to support this. On 25 November 2014 at 23:44, Richard Ruquist wrote: > The article was about the bad fit. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
The article was about the bad fit. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 5:58 PM, LizR wrote: > On 25 November 2014 at 11:53, Richard Ruquist wrote: > >> The continuing tests have been done. The results are in. That is what the >> article is about. >> >> I only saw references to a bad fit with CMBR measurements, there was no > mention of expanding galaxies. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On 25 November 2014 at 11:53, Richard Ruquist wrote: > The continuing tests have been done. The results are in. That is what the > article is about. > > I only saw references to a bad fit with CMBR measurements, there was no mention of expanding galaxies. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
The continuing tests have been done. The results are in. That is what the article is about. On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 5:32 PM, LizR wrote: > Shouldn't this be testable? If DM is disappearing then galaxies should be > expanding as there is less mass holding them together, surely? (And large > scale structure may also be different now from what it was in the past.) Is > there evidence of this sort of change? > > On 25 November 2014 at 10:48, wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, November 24, 2014 9:17:09 PM UTC, yanniru wrote: >>> >>> Isn't this news a few months old? >>> >> >> dunno, I just saw it now on the Mind list on yahoo groups >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
Shouldn't this be testable? If DM is disappearing then galaxies should be expanding as there is less mass holding them together, surely? (And large scale structure may also be different now from what it was in the past.) Is there evidence of this sort of change? On 25 November 2014 at 10:48, wrote: > > > On Monday, November 24, 2014 9:17:09 PM UTC, yanniru wrote: >> >> Isn't this news a few months old? >> > > dunno, I just saw it now on the Mind list on yahoo groups > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
On Monday, November 24, 2014 9:17:09 PM UTC, yanniru wrote: > > Isn't this news a few months old? > dunno, I just saw it now on the Mind list on yahoo groups -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
Isn't this news a few months old? On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 2:05 PM, wrote: > http://www.space.com/27852-dark-energy-eating-dark-matter.html > > my comment is testimony. my worldview predicted this. honest. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Is Dark Energy Gobbling Dark Matter, and Slowing Universe's Expansion?
http://www.space.com/27852-dark-energy-eating-dark-matter.html my comment is testimony. my worldview predicted this. honest. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
