Re: [expert] aic7xxx module problems.. How can I turn it off?
Have you checked lilo.conf or grubs menu.lst (whichever yu are using) - sounds like the install program detected it and set it up to init the card before booting. BillK Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] aic7xxx module problems.. How can I turn it off?
I've played with a bunch of the settings in the SCSI card bios to no avail.. Nothing seems out of place or to be configured incorrectly.. And it's weird because, again, it always works fine in windows but only works intermittently in Mandrake. Could someone out there help me work around this problem? How can I tell Mandrake not to load the aic7xxx.o module on startup? It's doing it REALLY early.. like before all the "Starting... [ OK ] " messages it's trying to load the SCSI module. Where is it being told that I want it to load the module? And how can I tell it not to? Thanks, Tom At 14:12 21/10/00, you wrote: >there is a way to drop into the adaptec card's BIOS on startup. poke around >and see if any settings look funny (use your best judgement). there is a >tool in there which shows you what it can see on the scsi bus. check for >termination / device # problems. > >Sorry I can't be more specific. >on 10/20/00 4:40 PM, Tom Eastman wrote: > > I have an Adaptec 2940 SCSI card with a hard drive plugged into it. My > > problem is that, when booting linux, the SCSI card goes into an infinite > > reset loop about half the time and I can't boot. > > > > What is *weird* about this is if my computer has been turned off for a > > while and I turn it on, it always fails to boot, whereas if I've been > > running windows for about half an hour already, it will generally work > > perfectly. > > > > Last time I had Mandrake installed, it didn't try to load the aic7xxx.o > > module unless I told it to, that way it would always boot and I would only > > risk crashing the computer with "insmod aic7xxx" if I needed to get > > something off of that hard drive. But now it always tries to load the > > module at boot time.. How can I tell it not to? > > > > Or, even better, if someone could tell me what might be causing the card to > > not work unless it's been in windows for a while, I could fix the problem > > once and for all. It would be a major step towards reducing my dependence > > on windows... I can't think of a more noble cause!!! Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Gnu Privacy Guard 1.0.3
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 PGP sure is free. I'm running right now on my machine. Both PGPcmndln and PGP4Pine. Both operate quite well on this Mandrake machine. - -- Mark /* I never worry about the to-jams. * Once I've stuck my foot in my mouth * it's already too late...just make sure * you chew them thoroughly before swallowing! */ Registered Linux user #182496 * Pine 4.21 * On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:59am ,Alexander Skwar spake passionately in a message: > So sprach Michael Powell PhD am Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 09:24:25AM +: > > almost all countries. PGP 5.6.8 offeres many different algorithms that > > are much more > > But PGP is not free, and on a free OS a free crypto application makes much > more sence. > > PS: Please stop quoting all the text, and only repeat as much as needed, > moron. > > Alexander Skwar > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.2 Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.75 iQA/AwUBOfJ6iXul8fsyuUZCEQJEUgCfS2eq83dPx2rPAvqSsicuBvK6Tc4AniBH iJTJvStWo4uTnzTBSsF7sHk7 =jSp/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
RE: [expert] 7.1 on 486
mandrake 7.1 will install and run on a 486. I've got an IBM sitting in my dinning room with Mandrake 7.1 on it and it runs like a top. Not a care in the world. As soon as I put more memory in it I'll be able to run more than just IceWM as an X-windows desktop too! -- Mark /* I never worry about the to-jams. * Once I've stuck my foot in my mouth * it's already too late...just make sure * you chew them thoroughly before swallowing! */ Registered Linux user #182496 * Pine 4.21 * On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 2:48pm ,Bill Shirley spake passionately in a message: > I far as I know there is only a LM 7.02 iso version for i486. > Burned a CD with it a couple days ago. > > Bill > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > Jean-Philippe Gois > > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 1:57 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [expert] 7.1 on 486 > > > > > > George McConnell wrote: > > > > > > will 7.1 not install on a 486? > > > > > > > It will, but you have to download a dedicated iso file. > > You'll find one at www.linuxiso.org/download and at most ftp mandrake > > mirrors. > > > > HTH > > Flupke > > -- > > << There's no place like ~! >> > > > > > > > Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Making partition writeable to user
> > /dev/hdb6 /mnt/DOS_hdb6 vfat user,exec,umask=0,0,0 > > > > That should solve your problem. > > Reboot? Can you not simply unmount the volume and then mount > it again? I thought that when you remount in this way, the fstab > is read again and that would be that. Sure you can unmount the drive and then issue a mount -a. I never know how to answer questions in this conference as when people ask basic stuff like this I don't really know what they know or don't know and so often take the path of least resistance. Cheers --- Larry Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Making partition writeable to user
Submitted 21-Oct-00 by Praedor Tempus: > Reboot? Can you not simply unmount the volume and then mount > it again? I thought that when you remount in this way, the fstab > is read again and that would be that. Indeed you can :) -- Anton GrahamGPG ID: 0x18F78541 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> RSA key available upon request A copy of the universe is not what is required of art; one of the damned things is ample. -- Rebecca West Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Making partition writeable to user
Larry Marshall wrote: > > Praedor Tempus wrote: > > > > I have a drive/partition mapped to /mnt/DOS_hdb6, and it is vfat. > > It's purpose is to hold games (windoze games, some of which can > > be played with wine). > > > I log in as root or superuser and try to chmod portions of the > > chmod changes permissions for the files but these don't exist in vfat > so you get the error. Thank you. I hadn't realized it was all directly associated with the filesystem - that it was more of a "how linux handles this or that". > In your /etc/fstab file change the relevant line to be: > > /dev/hdb6 /mnt/DOS_hdb6 vfat user,exec,umask=0,0,0 > > That should solve your problem. Reboot? Can you not simply unmount the volume and then mount it again? I thought that when you remount in this way, the fstab is read again and that would be that. praedor Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Making partition writeable to user
Praedor Tempus wrote: > > I have a drive/partition mapped to /mnt/DOS_hdb6, and it is vfat. > It's purpose is to hold games (windoze games, some of which can > be played with wine). > I log in as root or superuser and try to chmod portions of the chmod changes permissions for the files but these don't exist in vfat so you get the error. > permitted" messages. Excuse me? As root I can do anything I > want. I can wipe any and all drives, partitions, mountpoints > off the face of the earth. I can delete the system by running In your /etc/fstab file change the relevant line to be: /dev/hdb6 /mnt/DOS_hdb6 vfat user,exec,umask=0,0,0 That should solve your problem. You'll need to reboot for it to take affect. Cheers --- Larry Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
[expert] losing mouse on exit
I am running mandrake 7.1 and a MS scroll mouse. It is configured properly and works fine. Every now and then, after I exit from kde or xfce, when I get to the graphic login screen, the mouse goes dead. No pointer. I have to use tab and space to exit. If I restart xwindows, the mouse comes back. It is interittent. What could it be? Thanks. Jeff Malka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Registered Linux user 183185 Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Making partition writeable to user
Submitted 21-Oct-00 by Praedor Tempus: > I log in as root or superuser and try to chmod portions of the > drive as writeable to all, but I keep getting "operation not > permitted" messages. Excuse me? As root I can do anything I > want. You can't change permissions on individual files/directories on a file system that doesn't support permissions. There's no place to store the information. > messages but I am not permitted to change one lousy mount, or > portions thereof, to be world-writeable? You need to mount it with appropriate permissions. Specifically a umask. What I did on a dual boot machine was added all users I wanted to have write access to the partition to a new group called "fatusers" (group number 527 here) then editted the /etc/fstab entry for the partition to include gid=527,umask=007. What this does is gives full read/write privileges to root and members of that group, and nobody else can even cd into the mount point. > What do I have to do AS ROOT to do this? I cannot do "chmod 777" > on it, let alone ANY other variation of chmod on /mnt/DOS_hdb6 > OR any subdirectory on it. Why not? See above. -- Anton GrahamGPG ID: 0x18F78541 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> RSA key available upon request "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro..." -- Hunter S. Thompson Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Making partition writeable to user
The /etc/fstab entry for this drive is probably set to ro (read-only) and may need to be set to rw (read-write). A RO mount would override any permissions issues, and would be expressly supposed to do so. Kevin At 04:07 PM 10/21/00, you wrote: >I have a drive/partition mapped to /mnt/DOS_hdb6, and it is vfat. >It's purpose is to hold games (windoze games, some of which can >be played with wine). > >I want to make it, or at least directories on it, writeable to >users but I cannot do it, which confuses me somewhat. > >I log in as root or superuser and try to chmod portions of the >drive as writeable to all, but I keep getting "operation not >permitted" messages. Excuse me? As root I can do anything I >want. I can wipe any and all drives, partitions, mountpoints >off the face of the earth. I can delete the system by running >"rm -rf /*" and I wont be stopped with "operation not permitted" >messages but I am not permitted to change one lousy mount, or >portions thereof, to be world-writeable? > >What do I have to do AS ROOT to do this? I cannot do "chmod 777" >on it, let alone ANY other variation of chmod on /mnt/DOS_hdb6 >OR any subdirectory on it. Why not? > >praedor > >Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: >Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list. Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
[expert] Making partition writeable to user
I have a drive/partition mapped to /mnt/DOS_hdb6, and it is vfat. It's purpose is to hold games (windoze games, some of which can be played with wine). I want to make it, or at least directories on it, writeable to users but I cannot do it, which confuses me somewhat. I log in as root or superuser and try to chmod portions of the drive as writeable to all, but I keep getting "operation not permitted" messages. Excuse me? As root I can do anything I want. I can wipe any and all drives, partitions, mountpoints off the face of the earth. I can delete the system by running "rm -rf /*" and I wont be stopped with "operation not permitted" messages but I am not permitted to change one lousy mount, or portions thereof, to be world-writeable? What do I have to do AS ROOT to do this? I cannot do "chmod 777" on it, let alone ANY other variation of chmod on /mnt/DOS_hdb6 OR any subdirectory on it. Why not? praedor Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
[expert] POP3 Server Outgoing mail
I am having a problem with my POP3 mail server. I am able to send and receive mail from my Linux box just fine. The problem is when I am at another location using a client such as Outlook express I am able to Recieve mail OK but when I try to send mail I get an error message saying "User 'mike' rejected by the server". I am sure Outlook is configured correctly. I also tried netscape and got a very similar error message. To me it seems like the problem is a configuration with the mail server. Here is some info: I have a domain name registered to my IP. I am running mandrake 7.1. I am using Postfix for SMTP and Qpopper for POP3. You people have been really great in the past. If anyone can help me or give me some advice I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance, Mike
Re: [expert] wireless networking
Lucent makes a product that our local school district has used for routers and I think that D-Link also has a compatable product Kevin On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Vincent Danen wrote: > Does anyone know anything about wireless networking under Linux? I'm > looking to find a brand that works with Linux and provides support for > my laptop (ie. pcmcia card). I don't know the first thing about > wireless, so I'd appreciate any horror stories you may have. =) It's > for an article I've been asked to write. Thanks. > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net > // Danen Consulting Serviceswww.danen.net, www.freezer-burn.org > // MandrakeSoft, Inc. www.linux-mandrake.com > 1024D/FE6F2AFD 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7 66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD > > Current Linux uptime: 3 days 11 hours 26 minutes. > > Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
[expert] POP3 Server Problem
[expert] Customizing Aurora
Is anyone using Aurora? Im trying to figure out how to configure it (i want to change the way it looks) there is a /etc/aurora/.gtkrc that seems to be the "theme" of aurora but there is a comment at the top that says its autowritten and not to edit... anyone have any info on this? BTW im running MD7.2 beta3 Shawn Hafen Take the training wheels off your PC --==USE LINUX==-- __ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] ./configure problem
On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, you wrote: > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, you wrote: > > > > Currently running Mandrake7.2rc1 with everything installed that I can > > > > think of. > > > > > > Some developpement libraries are on the second CD.. did you install > > > them as > > > well ? > > > > Yes, ALL kde rpms have been installed and I still get this error during > > ./configure. > > which version of KDE do you have installed? can you provide a list of the > kde packages you have installed (rpm -qa | grep kde > output ... or the > like :)? These packages are installed: kdesupport-1.99-1mdk kdelibs-1.99-5mdk kdelibs-sound-1.99-5mdk kde1-compat-1.1.2-7mdk kdebase-1.99-17mdk kdepim-1.99-2mdk kdegraphics-1.99-2mdk kdeaddutils-1.99-3mdk kdenetwork-1.99-2mdk kdeutils-1.99-3mdk kdemultimedia-1.99-3mdk kdetoys-1.99-1mdk kde-i18n-British-1.99-4mdk kdeadmin-1.99-5mdk kdegames-1.99-2mdk kde1-compat-devel-1.1.2-7mdk kdesupport-devel-1.99-1mdk kdelibs-devel-1.99-5mdk kdesdk-1.99-2mdk kdegraphics-devel-1.99-2mdk kdemultimedia-devel-1.99-3mdk kdebase-devel-1.99-17mdk kdelibs-sound-devel-1.99-5mdk kdenetwork-devel-1.99-2mdk kdeaddutils-devel-1.99-3mdk Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] rtl8139
Have you tried editing the file and removing one? guran remberg wrote: > Hi > > I know that this should be posted to Cooker, but I left that list, as I > felt that I don't have the knowledge to add anything. > > I have just started a new computer with "Linux-Mandrake Odyssey-rc1-i586 > 20001020 14:14" and had serious problems with my ethernet card. > > The card was a Planet 10/100 PCI with a rtl8139 chip. > > In modules.conf there was two cards automatically installed although I > only had one => eth0= 8139too and eth1=rtl8139. I can understand that > the system got confused. > > I tried debian potato, but it refused to go on as it could not resolve > or reach my LAN. > > The machine is a: > PentiumII, coppermine, 933 MHz. > ASUS p3v4x, VIA &c > 256 ECC 133 MHz Compaque > Creative 3D Blaster RIVA TNT2 VANTA 32 MB > now ISA NE2000 10MB > was sound Soundblaster 64 > IBM 30 GB 7200 > > regards > guran > > > Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: > Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list. Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
[expert] Re: 7.2 -rc
I downloaded the 2 iso's for LM7.2-rc and the install went well, until I got to the setting of the time zome. Everyttime I click to window, I get hd access and a errror finding zone info. and I can't get past this point HELP!expert Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
[expert] rtl8139
Hi I know that this should be posted to Cooker, but I left that list, as I felt that I don't have the knowledge to add anything. I have just started a new computer with "Linux-Mandrake Odyssey-rc1-i586 20001020 14:14" and had serious problems with my ethernet card. The card was a Planet 10/100 PCI with a rtl8139 chip. In modules.conf there was two cards automatically installed although I only had one => eth0= 8139too and eth1=rtl8139. I can understand that the system got confused. I tried debian potato, but it refused to go on as it could not resolve or reach my LAN. The machine is a: PentiumII, coppermine, 933 MHz. ASUS p3v4x, VIA &c 256 ECC 133 MHz Compaque Creative 3D Blaster RIVA TNT2 VANTA 32 MB now ISA NE2000 10MB was sound Soundblaster 64 IBM 30 GB 7200 regards guran Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)
> The different users would look like (and the most likely percentage of > current computer users): *** This is my Gut feeling. > .5% Guru - If the guru does not know the answer, normally, nobody > does. > 2% Advanced user - Can handle all day to day issues, plan, build > and develop systems. Rarely needs reference material anymore. > 5% Intermediate user - Can handle day to day issues, plan simple > builds, but not ready to develop systems. > 10% Beginning user - Can get into most "normal" applications and get > their own work done. Has almost no idea about how it all works. > 83.5% Newbie - Just installed Linux. Has no idea what to do next. > Clicks on things and gets lost. I have no ideas if your numbers are correct but I will make this comment. The notion that you're going to hand Linux of any kind to a true newcomer to a computer and expect that they're going to actually install and run it is beyond reason. The same is almost as true for Windows. This is what keeps Apple afloat and makes the iMac popular. I'm not saying this to be perjorative towards Apple or you Bill but I think it's reasonable to make distinctions between true computer users (who can do things independently) and the vast masses who use computers at work with tech support. > The Guru level would basically get the option on everything, and be able to > see all packages, whereas the Newbie would get only the most uncomplicated > stuff (read GUI or very simple shell.) The problem with tiered installations is that the Linux world is dependent upon the Internet for its support and for software access. I agree with you that lots of stuff needs to be eliminated and tied up for newbies but the minute they download a program from freshmeat they're in trouble with such a system. At this point, I think the best that a company like Mandrake can hope for is to provide products that will make gurus, gurus supporting application users, and your intermediate categories. My wife uses computers every day and yet couldn't get a modem or network card functioning if her life depended upon it even with Windows. My dad won't install W'95 or '98 on his system because it's "too complicated" to learn a new desktop from his 3.1 desktop. Linux is not designed for those people unless they have tech support. The popularity of Windows didn't come by it expanding outward from the home to business; it went the other way around. People with tech support learned enough about it (by using apps running on it) to want it at home. By the time it hit their desktop at home they already knew the basics of the operating system and probably still had access to someone who could answer questions for them. So it will be with Linux but we have to be patient. Cheers --- Larry Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Wordperfect Office 2000 on 7.2beta3?
> xfstt is afaik the 1st or one of the 1st free true type rasterisers > available, GPL. Sort of a 1 man project, and handles fonts a bit differently > than XFree. I've heard it helps Netscape, especially with larger sizes. What is it that makes you think WPO is looking for this on your system? I've seen no evidence of that at all on my installation. As I've said, WPO works fine on my 7.1 installation and yet xfstt doesn't exist anywhere on the disk. Cheers --- Larry Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing (fwd)
- Original Message - From: "Chang F.K.K." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing (fwd) > > Even on a fast system cd buring programs will use every cpu they can get > > their hands on. > > I should be able to tweak that shouldn't I? I find that cdrecord uses > quite little resources indeed (10% CPU on average). > > > My system set up is such that I share a DSL connection on 3 machines. To > > elininate the problem you are having I installed my cdrw on a machine other > > than the one I use to connect to the internet ( basicly I using it as an > > internet server) and do all mem and cpu intent activities on 1 of my other > > system so that they do not affect my connection speed. > > > >Charles > > > > Well, the problem is, all clients are laptops :( > > Felix > > Even though cdrecord is showing only 10% cpu usage it will still hijack all the cpus it can and hold them in reserve moreover it will take up most of your System Resourses which is a combination of cpu, memory, cashe, etc. This is why all other running processes slow down. The only "tweak" that might help you to maintain your internet speed is if you would run cdrecord from the command line rather than from X because kde and ,to a lessor extent, gnome are also both themselves resourse hogs. Charles. Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
[expert] modprobe error
In /var/log/messages: "Oct 21 19:12:22 Ralph modprobe: modprobe: insmod Inter-| failed " I have started getting this error every 60secs the last few days - does anyone know what program is calling modprobe for module "Inter-|", or how do I go about finding it other than killing processes one by one. BillK Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2)
kpackage and similar offer a graphic inetrface that is similar to add/remove programs - they just havent gone the step further and integrated extra module control, you have to do it. And as for tryng to add say, gxedit and having extra packages installed, thats called dependencies in linux - if you want it to work - you must install them! In short, linux does have the equivalent, working in a similar way, but it is quite primative in user facilities and operation compared to the microsoft product! I would dearly be able to look at a display and see what I need to install a package, before I download it, not after like linux does. Mandrake Update is also a form of auto-installation. And there are the debian folks who script apt-get so it runs in the background and keeps their system up to date - automatically. What Linux does give is more low level control, but paradoxicly what it needs is better high level control such as a better uninstall, be able to preview changes with little work and handhold those with little experiance, whilst keeping low level control. So whats the distinction - control (Linux), usability (MS). And food for thought, the more control you give someone, without the help or knowlege to control it, the more damage they can do. Dont confuse the design decisions made by MS with being unsophisticated, it is often VERY sohpisticated under the hood, particularly in gui design, where kde (which I use) and gnome (urk) are playing catchup. BillK > I think you're missing one very basic distinction between the Windoze > world and the Linux world (and thus the breadth of the problem of > auto-installation). > Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
Re: [expert] Troubles with ISDN and CD-Writing (fwd)
> Even on a fast system cd buring programs will use every cpu they can get > their hands on. I should be able to tweak that shouldn't I? I find that cdrecord uses quite little resources indeed (10% CPU on average). > My system set up is such that I share a DSL connection on 3 machines. To > elininate the problem you are having I installed my cdrw on a machine other > than the one I use to connect to the internet ( basicly I using it as an > internet server) and do all mem and cpu intent activities on 1 of my other > system so that they do not affect my connection speed. > >Charles > Well, the problem is, all clients are laptops :( Felix Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list.
