Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Monday 17 Mar 2003 5:10 am, Ron Stodden wrote: Anne Wilson wrote: Way back, and English duo sang I'm a g-nu, a g-nother g-nu --- nor am I in the least like that dreadful hartebeast, Oh g-no, g-no, g-no, I'm a g-nu! Anne (Michael) Flanders (in his wheelchair) (Donald) Swann (piano). Both now 'late' I believe? Spot on. MF died in 1975. Don't know about DS. If you were a fan, you might like to know that there is now a 3 cd set, the 2 'Hat' records, and the Bestiary. The numbers on the box are CDFSB 1 CDS 7974642. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sun Mar 16, 2003 at 09:49:01PM -0500, Ronald J. Hall wrote:
Heck, I even have a dual-boot Windows box just so I can play EverQuest
(although this may change since EQ for the Mac is coming out soon).
Just thought I'd point out that Winex v3.x has support for EverQuest (although
I don't know to what degree).
You might want to check out their website:
http://www.transgaming.com
Yeah, I've tried transgaming before, although not in a while. Ran Diablo2
like a champ.. =) Maybe I should check them out again. Not sure if I want
to run EQ on Linux tho... would put my productivity really down... =)
--
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sat 2003-03-15 at 18:28:39 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:43:12 +0100 Benjamin Pflugmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [a bit reordered] Well, I just installed it from current cooker (ohphone-1.3.5-1mdk) and could start it without problem. Did not include much testing, because I did not care to read the manual, but I can make it searching for something it calls gatekeeper. :-) OK... THANK YOU! You are welcome. *that's* what I want to hear... but I still believe the packagers should at least *start* whatever they are building -- there is no other way to ensure the build is even usable. I am quite positive that they did test it and it just broke due to some later updates to other packages - something which could only be noticed if you start almost every application every time you update another package. That was why I cited the changelog. A lot of time has passed since the previous update. Whatever. On Fri 2003-03-14 at 21:48:20 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 14 March 2003 08:35 pm, Pierre Fortin wrote: Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a release? I am not sure they should. There are a lot of testers out there. And if none of them bothered to try the app *and* report problems, I would consider it reasonable to remove that app, because apparently nobody cares enough about it. I am aware that this statement was a bit drastic. But I figured if I bother to actually test it for you, I may let go of some opinion... ;-) Or in other words: I was willing to test, but a bit nerved by your rant. So you got a opposing rant. Not a smart thing to do, I know. That's plain wrong thinking... if Mdk wants to limit their sales to just those who test/run Cooker, I might agree... BUT... they want to sell as much as they can, You are right. That was my point: They want to sell as much as they can. And if there is a package that *apparently* nobody cares about, why wasting time which could be spent better to satisfy the majority of buyers. I don't claim they do this. I only say it wouldn't be unreasonable, IMNSHO. And we are not talking about Cookers here. Nobody testing any of beta1, beta2, beta3, RC1 and RC2 cared to file a bug report. And that includes a lot of people. Or in other words: do you really want them to include any app out there, just because there could be some interest for it? Usually apps are either chosen because they make general sense (e.g. zeroconf), some volunteer contributes it, or enough people ask for it that somebody else cares to packages it. Note that I am not actually suggesting to drop ohphone for real. I am only presenting a different viewpoint, i.e. that it is not to be taken for granted that it will be supported forever if no one gives feedback. and they really have no way of telling how people will use the distro. Oh. They have. User feedback. Bug reports (*hint* :). If there are some applications that won't even *start*, what does that say for Mdk QA??? Well, it does start. I did not say anywhere that they don't do tests before final release. After all, the distro is named Mandrake Linux, not Linux By A Rag-tag Bunch of Cooker/Wannabe Testers Who Didn't Have the Time or Inclination to Test All the Applications: Good Luck!... I doubt that the Mandrake distro would still be the same without those people you like calling names. Read cooker for some week and you will realize how much is done and influenced by volunteers. (That does mean to imply that Mandrake people don't do a great job. They certainly do! It is about teamwork.) Another point is that of work sharing. Since everybody (well, almost ;) is able to do testing, but there are certain things only people at Mandrake can do reasonably, it only makes sense that developers concentrate on their tasks and volunteers do (most of) the testing. [...] I also searched the the bug database. Not a single entry for ohphone. Maybe there was a report directly on the cooker mailing list. For 9.0, I reported it, was even blamed for building it wrong, pointed out I just installed it, got the impression it would be fixed, not! If Mdk don't fix broken apps in a distro, they won't last IMO. That statement is so general, it is kind of rediculous. Of course they fix broken apps. It is just impossible to fix every bug in every application. Resource limit. (And some would say, it is impossible to make a app without bugs - it's only a question of how visible they are.) Anyhow, regarding the the late update, I would say: blame yourself. (I do not mean anyone particular with yourself here.) The first part sounds like flame-bait; but the 2nd... unable to grok. Take it as a misscarried try to encourage to participiate in Mandrake Linux by making sure the parts you care about are working: Of couse one can sit back and wait until the distro ships. But since Mandrake has an (quite) open development process
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 10:20:06PM -0500, Mark Weaver wrote: =) I don't use it in production, but I do run it on my primary workstation. It's been pretty stable (actually, I'm quite baffled by the number of bug reports just because it has been working so well here). Vincent, I really get the impression that whether it works well or seems to have bugs is totally hardware dependent. As for me, I've got it on my primary workstation here at home and at work, and RC2 is doing magnificantly in both places. I had a bit of a struggle with networking on a laptop I use at work, but through persistance and plain old, mule-headed stuborness I was able to work it out. Oh, absolutely... I agree with you 110% here. And part of our problem is a very small hardware budget (obviously, we need to pay developers first). So we don't have all the latest and greatest that people might be using; which is what makes the entire cooker process invaluable. We reach a broader range of hardware through cooker than we ever could otherwise. I've got cooker running on my workstation and my windows machine (dual-boot) and both work great. I've got cooker/PPC running on an imac G4 and aside from a few little oddities, it works great too. Getting it onto my Toshiba Satellite has been an excercise in futility, although I haven't had too much time to spend on it. The RC2 kernel broke something so even the kernel messages come up very dim, almost unreadable. And wireless with WEP doesn't work, even in the betas when I could install it. I am solidly commited to Mandrake for ever. I've seen the others and they don't hold a candle to even the beta releases of Mandrake, let alone the final releases. This is good to hear, and I agree with you myself. I'm not afraid to use non-Mandrake stuff when warranted, but let me tell you... No other distro holds a candle to Mandrake as far as I'm concerned, for a workstation or server. So I've got FreeBSD running on a P166 for testing (used for writing stuff on my linsec.ca site), and OpenBSD on a Sparc Station2. Then I use OS X on my ibook and dual-boot it on my G4 lamp. Otherwise, this is a 100% Mandrake shop (all Linux here is Mandrake). And I do try other distros... I think I've tried every distro at least once by now. I am ponderous though about the nav window buginess of KDE apps when running in KDE. they don't appear to work correctly. I posted this on cooker, but it hasn't even gotten a bite in three days. Can't help you with that one... I'm using fluxbox now and if not that, GNOME. anti-KDE sentiment aside, I don't really use it. =) Something interesting about the KDE thing I'd been having trouble with. When I turned on single-click for short cuts and folders in KDE the problem in the nav windows disappeared. This leads me to believe there's something odd going on between the DT interface and the system, although at this point I'm not sure where to begin to look for the root cause. In the grand scheme of things it's not a crucial issue. It was just something I'd never experienced in Mandrake; I'm not even sure it's a Mandrake issue. -- Mark If necessity is the mother of invention, then who's the father? --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 9.0 ICQ# 27816299 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sun Mar 16, 2003 at 08:54:33AM -0500, Mark Weaver wrote:
Problem is, I read mail on my ibook and use OS X... so I can use mutt in a
terminal just fine. With Mozilla, the Enigmail stuff is beta for OS X and
doesn't work too hot, so I can't use GPG with my mail if I go the Mozilla
route. Maybe one day... =)
I smell what you're steppin in. I had been at the same place for a while
before Mozilla had the Enigmail functionality. At that time I used
mostly Pine. Mutt and I never really got along that well. At times
Enigmail is still a bit buggy. at least in Mozilla 1.3b. Don't know what
it's like in 1.3 final...haven't tried it yet.
It would be quite nice if the OS X build of 1.3 comes with Enigmail, but I
haven't checked it out yet. It would be really cool to interchange mail
with my laptop and desktop machine as well as the bookmarks I currently do.
Lack of GPG support in the OS X build is the only thing stopping me from
moving to Mozilla for my mail. Ah well... mutt has worked pretty good till
now... =)
--
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sun, 2003-03-16 at 05:55, Mark Weaver wrote: Vox wrote: This time Vincent Danen [EMAIL PROTECTED] becomes daring and writes: On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 10:24:01PM -0500, Mark Weaver wrote: There likely is, but I don't know it. I'm probably using 20% of mutt's full potential. I can delete an entire thread, but it keeps coming back the next time I'm in the mail box. I don't think mutt remembers this kind of thing, although I could be wrong. Mozilla does a real nice job of this; keeping track I mean. Problem is, I read mail on my ibook and use OS X... so I can use mutt in a terminal just fine. With Mozilla, the Enigmail stuff is beta for OS X and doesn't work too hot, so I can't use GPG with my mail if I go the Mozilla route. Maybe one day... =) Told you once, told you a million times...use gnus! :P Vox grin g-nus can't even talk, how would they be able to read the mail? wait!... are they even a real animal? (g)Yes they are!... african in fact. However they are able to pronounce the word correctly (as in new not guh-new) *grin* Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sunday 16 Mar 2003 8:15 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Sun, 2003-03-16 at 05:55, Mark Weaver wrote: grin g-nus can't even talk, how would they be able to read the mail? wait!... are they even a real animal? (g)Yes they are!... african in fact. However they are able to pronounce the word correctly (as in new not guh-new) *grin* Way back, and English duo sang I'm a g-nu, a g-nother g-nu --- nor am I in the least like that dreadful hartebeast, Oh g-no, g-no, g-no, I'm a g-nu! Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
This time Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] becomes daring and writes: On Sunday 16 Mar 2003 8:15 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Sun, 2003-03-16 at 05:55, Mark Weaver wrote: grin g-nus can't even talk, how would they be able to read the mail? wait!... are they even a real animal? (g)Yes they are!... african in fact. However they are able to pronounce the word correctly (as in new not guh-new) *grin* Way back, and English duo sang I'm a g-nu, a g-nother g-nu --- nor am I in the least like that dreadful hartebeast, Oh g-no, g-no, g-no, I'm a g-nu! rotfl! Vox -- Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else. -- Donald B. Marti Jr. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sun, 2003-03-16 at 15:28, Anne Wilson wrote: On Sunday 16 Mar 2003 8:15 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Sun, 2003-03-16 at 05:55, Mark Weaver wrote: grin g-nus can't even talk, how would they be able to read the mail? wait!... are they even a real animal? (g)Yes they are!... african in fact. However they are able to pronounce the word correctly (as in new not guh-new) *grin* Way back, and English duo sang I'm a g-nu, a g-nother g-nu --- nor am I in the least like that dreadful hartebeast, Oh g-no, g-no, g-no, I'm a g-nu! Anne O...NOW you got me to thinking and laughing That little dirge reminded me of an American TV program for kids a while back. It was called, The Banana Splits. Believe it or not, these people dressed up in exaggerated animal costumes and would sing a combination of pop and rock songs during the show, bwteeen slap-stick comedy routines. It was like an animal version of the show The Monkeys use to have.. Gee...the things that a grown adult will remember when he strolls down memory lane... Ohg-no...g-no..g-no...I'm not a g-nu T :-D -- Technoslick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sun Mar 16, 2003 at 02:28:27PM -0500, Mark Weaver wrote:
It would be quite nice if the OS X build of 1.3 comes with Enigmail, but I
haven't checked it out yet. It would be really cool to interchange mail
with my laptop and desktop machine as well as the bookmarks I currently do.
Lack of GPG support in the OS X build is the only thing stopping me from
moving to Mozilla for my mail. Ah well... mutt has worked pretty good till
now... =)
I know what you mean. we recently got a copy of OS X at work for the
dual G4's we've got in the graphics department. to be honest it left me
very unimpressed. I was really expecting more of a Unix feel and
function then what it has. Unless I'm missing something it's very
un-Unix like.
Just on the desktop.. it's very Mac-ish. Underneath tho... very BSD. Go
poke around in the terminal if you get a chance. =) And you can run X on
it as well, although I doubt your graphics folk would be very interested in
that (of course, you could also fire up gimp under X). Then there's fink...
lots of OSS stuff that runs under X and on the commandline.. uses apt-get.
At the first glance, you're right, it's not very NIX-ish, but once you get
in with it... it hits you. =) I couldn't stand OS X either when I first
got a Mac to do the PPC updates. It's since grown on me... it's my second
favourite OS now. The only thing I really dislike about it is the lack of
themeability... Aqua is Aqua is Aqua. Gets pretty boring after a while.
Then again...the look and feel of Mandrake 9.1 is very MAC like and I'm
loving it's looks cause underneath still beats to true heart of the
Linux Penguin with all it's great strength. Now it's even prettier! :)
I don't think 9.1 looks very Macish... I guess it depends on what desktop
you're using... I'm using GNOME of fluxbox; neither of which is very Macish.
Maybe KDE looks more like it with all the bubbles and stuff... =)
I think 9.1 is fairly unique in it's own right, which is one of the drawing
aspects to me. I like OS X because it's really easy to do certain things
(ie. I do all my multimedia stuff on there like making movies), but I much
prefer doing my power work on Linux. I think if I had to do what I do on
my Mandrake box in OS X, I'd shoot myself. =) A case of the right tool (or
OS) for the right job.
Heck, I even have a dual-boot Windows box just so I can play EverQuest
(although this may change since EQ for the Mac is coming out soon).
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sunday 16 March 2003 06:31 pm, Vincent Danen wrote: Heck, I even have a dual-boot Windows box just so I can play EverQuest (although this may change since EQ for the Mac is coming out soon). Just thought I'd point out that Winex v3.x has support for EverQuest (although I don't know to what degree). You might want to check out their website: http://www.transgaming.com -- /\ Dark Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
Anne Wilson wrote: Way back, and English duo sang I'm a g-nu, a g-nother g-nu --- nor am I in the least like that dreadful hartebeast, Oh g-no, g-no, g-no, I'm a g-nu! Anne (Michael) Flanders (in his wheelchair) (Donald) Swann (piano). Both now 'late' I believe? Ron. [Melbourne, Australia] 20030119 Get Fastest Mandrake downloader, English-only, from: http://members.optusnet.com.au/ronst/ Empty warhead found in White House Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 10:24:01PM -0500, Mark Weaver wrote: There likely is, but I don't know it. I'm probably using 20% of mutt's full potential. I can delete an entire thread, but it keeps coming back the next time I'm in the mail box. I don't think mutt remembers this kind of thing, although I could be wrong. Mozilla does a real nice job of this; keeping track I mean. Problem is, I read mail on my ibook and use OS X... so I can use mutt in a terminal just fine. With Mozilla, the Enigmail stuff is beta for OS X and doesn't work too hot, so I can't use GPG with my mail if I go the Mozilla route. Maybe one day... =) I smell what you're steppin in. I had been at the same place for a while before Mozilla had the Enigmail functionality. At that time I used mostly Pine. Mutt and I never really got along that well. At times Enigmail is still a bit buggy. at least in Mozilla 1.3b. Don't know what it's like in 1.3 final...haven't tried it yet. -- Mark If necessity is the mother of invention, then who's the father? --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 9.0 ICQ# 27816299 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Friday 14 March 2003 08:47 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 16:49, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 06:14:27PM -0500, tarvid wrote: Vincent - Francisco - we love you both. At all times, but expecially times like this, the kindest thing we can do for our friends is cut them a little slack. I don't think there should be slack for consistent OT posters. I don't really care what times we're in. There are bugs, there will always be bugs, I've been using cooker in production for over a month now and it has been a source of joy. =) I don't use it in production, but I do run it on my primary workstation. It's been pretty stable (actually, I'm quite baffled by the number of bug reports just because it has been working so well here) Lucky you! but I've been noticing some very real trends. Specifically, ATI video cards (especially the mobility) Users that don't have a full network and the fight against zeroconf and dhcp-client (seems to have gotten pretty well solved) and anyone on a laptop especially Compaq's .. 2 out of 3 are byting me in the buns. Update comes I start to get my wireless working.. new update... it goes south... I'm almost of the opinion that a Mandrake for Laptops would be well received. And yes if you haven't guessed I've lost wireless again. Just which I could get the same error from boot to boot. or even more important find out why it does work on those occasions when it does. Havent' had it working since 8.0... *sigh*.. Oh well keep plugging... keep googling... Which wireless card are you having difficulty with? Which Mandrake versions have worked and which have not worked with it? I use/need wireless and would like to avoid recapitulating your problems and simply skip to using the versions (kernel) which work rather than go with the latest. praedor Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri 2003-03-14 at 21:48:20 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 14 March 2003 08:35 pm, Pierre Fortin wrote: Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a release? I am not sure they should. There are a lot of testers out there. And if none of them bothered to try the app *and* report problems, I would consider it reasonable to remove that app, because apparently nobody cares enough about it. I'm still quite miffed at 9.0 for a number of reasons; however, last night, I asked another list member if ohphone just *started* in 9.1rc2... NOPE! pwlib problem Did anybody test it on the current cooker? IIRC, rc2 was almost 3 weeks ago now. Well, I just installed it from current cooker (ohphone-1.3.5-1mdk) and could start it without problem. Did not include much testing, because I did not care to read the manual, but I can make it searching for something it calls gatekeeper. :-) Yes, there were some fixes only after RC2: $ rpm -q --changelog ohphone * Tue Mar 11 2003 Florin [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 1.3.5 - update requires - remove already intergrated c++fixes patch - update the lib64 patch * Sun Dec 01 2002 Gwenole Beauchesne [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1.2.11-2mdk - Patch2: Make it lib64 aware I also searched the the bug database. Not a single entry for ohphone. Maybe there was a report directly on the cooker mailing list. Anyhow, regarding the the late update, I would say: blame yourself. (I do not mean anyone particular with yourself here.) Anyone can easily get a working ohphone by testing *and* reporting problems early. This process works. Really. Bye, Benjamin. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sat, 2003-03-15 at 10:02, Praedor Atrebates wrote: On Friday 14 March 2003 08:47 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 16:49, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 06:14:27PM -0500, tarvid wrote: Vincent - Francisco - we love you both. At all times, but expecially times like this, the kindest thing we can do for our friends is cut them a little slack. I don't think there should be slack for consistent OT posters. I don't really care what times we're in. There are bugs, there will always be bugs, I've been using cooker in production for over a month now and it has been a source of joy. =) I don't use it in production, but I do run it on my primary workstation. It's been pretty stable (actually, I'm quite baffled by the number of bug reports just because it has been working so well here) Lucky you! but I've been noticing some very real trends. Specifically, ATI video cards (especially the mobility) Users that don't have a full network and the fight against zeroconf and dhcp-client (seems to have gotten pretty well solved) and anyone on a laptop especially Compaq's .. 2 out of 3 are byting me in the buns. Update comes I start to get my wireless working.. new update... it goes south... I'm almost of the opinion that a Mandrake for Laptops would be well received. And yes if you haven't guessed I've lost wireless again. Just which I could get the same error from boot to boot. or even more important find out why it does work on those occasions when it does. Havent' had it working since 8.0... *sigh*.. Oh well keep plugging... keep googling... Which wireless card are you having difficulty with? Which Mandrake versions have worked and which have not worked with it? I use/need wireless and would like to avoid recapitulating your problems and simply skip to using the versions (kernel) which work rather than go with the latest. praedor Paedor, Honestly.. the way to avoid my problems is to NOT buy a used Compaq Armada M700 to use wireless. I'd be willing to bet that 90% of my problems are hardware related Judging mostly by the fact that I don't get the same error in /var/log/messages Card wise I've only run into problems with cooker because of the constant changes of the beast. However ... I'm sending this wireless right now... Now I've just got to learn how to combine 1. Out of date man pages. 2. What is supposed to work (like cardctl scheme) 3. Mandrakes mods (like ifupwireless) Into a more correct stream. Basically my problem has been that there is a wealth of info on how to get this running on the 2.2 kernel and RH 6.2 which really doesn't get me very far *grin* James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:43:12 +0100 Benjamin Pflugmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri 2003-03-14 at 21:48:20 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 14 March 2003 08:35 pm, Pierre Fortin wrote: Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a release? I am not sure they should. There are a lot of testers out there. And if none of them bothered to try the app *and* report problems, I would consider it reasonable to remove that app, because apparently nobody cares enough about it. That's plain wrong thinking... if Mdk wants to limit their sales to just those who test/run Cooker, I might agree... BUT... they want to sell as much as they can, and they really have no way of telling how people will use the distro. If there are some applications that won't even *start*, what does that say for Mdk QA??? After all, the distro is named Mandrake Linux, not Linux By A Rag-tag Bunch of Cooker/Wannabe Testers Who Didn't Have the Time or Inclination to Test All the Applications: Good Luck!... Virtually all the applications are not developed at Mandrake, just built there... so I see no reason why the apps can't at least be started to make sure the builds are of _some_ use or maybe the term NOOP is no longer well known. I'm still quite miffed at 9.0 for a number of reasons; however, last night, I asked another list member if ohphone just *started* in 9.1rc2... NOPE! pwlib problem Did anybody test it on the current cooker? IIRC, rc2 was almost 3 weeks ago now. Well, I just installed it from current cooker (ohphone-1.3.5-1mdk) and could start it without problem. Did not include much testing, because I did not care to read the manual, but I can make it searching for something it calls gatekeeper. :-) OK... THANK YOU! *that's* what I want to hear... but I still believe the packagers should at least *start* whatever they are building -- there is no other way to ensure the build is even usable. I convinced several users to make the move from Windows to Mandrake during 8.x; but with 9.0, ZERO! Yes, there were some fixes only after RC2: $ rpm -q --changelog ohphone * Tue Mar 11 2003 Florin [EMAIL PROTECTED] - 1.3.5 - update requires - remove already intergrated c++fixes patch - update the lib64 patch * Sun Dec 01 2002 Gwenole Beauchesne [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1.2.11-2mdk - Patch2: Make it lib64 aware I also searched the the bug database. Not a single entry for ohphone. Maybe there was a report directly on the cooker mailing list. For 9.0, I reported it, was even blamed for building it wrong, pointed out I just installed it, got the impression it would be fixed, not! If Mdk don't fix broken apps in a distro, they won't last IMO. Anyhow, regarding the the late update, I would say: blame yourself. (I do not mean anyone particular with yourself here.) The first part sounds like flame-bait; but the 2nd... unable to grok. Anyone can easily get a working ohphone by testing *and* reporting problems early. This process works. Really. Yup... you're right; but then, WHAT is the point of including broken apps in a distro...? Maybe the cooker process would be a WHOLE LOT smoother if the apps weren't just make; throw over the fence and keep fingers crossed... I have several books on software quality I'd be glad to donate to Mdk, if I thought they'd read them... Bye, Benjamin. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sunday 16 March 2003 00:28, Pierre Fortin wrote: On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:43:12 +0100 Benjamin Pflugmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri 2003-03-14 at 21:48:20 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 14 March 2003 08:35 pm, Pierre Fortin wrote: Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a release? I am not sure they should. There are a lot of testers out there. And if none of them bothered to try the app *and* report problems, I would consider it reasonable to remove that app, because apparently nobody cares enough about it. That's plain wrong thinking... if Mdk wants to limit their sales to just those who test/run Cooker, I might agree... BUT... they want to sell as much as they can, and they really have no way of telling how people will use the distro. If there are some applications that won't even *start*, what does that say for Mdk QA??? After all, the distro is named Mandrake Linux, not Linux By A Rag-tag Bunch of Cooker/Wannabe Testers Who Didn't Have the Time or Inclination to Test All the Applications: Good Luck!... If you are long enoushould know that it can running flawless and do not even start on another machine. So testing on some given machines would not mean it does work for you. (for whatever reason) That is why you should test it if you want have running it. So the statement you are doing is not valid. Well, I just installed it from current cooker (ohphone-1.3.5-1mdk) and could start it without problem. Did not include much testing, because I did not care to read the manual, but I can make it searching for something it calls gatekeeper. :-) OK... THANK YOU! *that's* what I want to hear... but I still believe the packagers should at least *start* whatever they are building -- there is no other way to ensure the build is even usable. as stated above . What is needed is a good bugreport from you. I also searched the the bug database. Not a single entry for ohphone. Maybe there was a report directly on the cooker mailing list. For 9.0, I reported it, was even blamed for building it wrong, pointed out I just installed it, got the impression it would be fixed, not! You wouldn't be blamed for building it wrong if you are reporting it to cooker. Reporting it to cooker is what is needed. Anyhow, regarding the the late update, I would say: blame yourself. (I do not mean anyone particular with yourself here.) The first part sounds like flame-bait; but the 2nd... unable to grok. Anyone can easily get a working ohphone by testing *and* reporting problems early. This process works. Really. Yup... you're right; but then, WHAT is the point of including broken apps in a distro...? Maybe the cooker process would be a WHOLE LOT smoother if the apps weren't just make; throw over the fence and keep fingers crossed... Invalid statement. They don't put not working apps in mandrake, the only thing is they can't know if it is working for you. One thing that might be true is that apps that are not that popular might be forgotten and things that are popular and well tested by cookers are working. The best example are in my eyes modem and isdn. I thing modem and isdn related things are not so important so they will not be tested so much. Even if you reporting bugs on not so popular things you will not be heared. I was complaining about isdn stuff for a long time. Without massive ranting and complaining you will not be heared in cooker and bugs in that area will have a long life. This might be true for ohphone too, I don't know. That currently really get on my nerves and: I am not sure they should. There are a lot of testers out there. And if none of them bothered to try the app *and* report problems, I would consider it reasonable to remove that app, because apparently nobody cares enough about it. is not valid too or only if only cookers will buy mandrake. As example isdn is wide spread in germany and germany is i guess not such a small market as long as mandrake does not think to let SuSE do their money here. ( I hate SuSE and so I wont use it, but I thought several times to switch to SuSE (because of the better isdn support) for my router (I even have the cd's here for installing it ). I will look at it for 9.2 if there improves things, but then I will give up on that.) -- Regards Steffen counter.li.org : #296567. machine: 181800 vdr-box : 87 Please dont CC me, since if I have replied I'll watch the tread. Both mails will be filtered to the ML-folder. Thanks Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 08:35:18PM -0500, Pierre Fortin wrote:
Unless you have something you know
for sure won't be addressed in the final release to add?
I do...
I'm running 9.0 on only one system -- all the rest are still at 8.2
BUT... the question I have is very simple:
Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a
release?
This you'll have to ask the developers. I'm sure most use the applications
they're in charge of. Some likely don't (I, for myself, am the maintainer
of mailman and don't use it... one reason I've been trying to pawn it off on
someone who does actually use it because I know I'm the worst person to
package it).
I'm still quite miffed at 9.0 for a number of reasons; however, last
night, I asked another list member if ohphone just *started* in 9.1rc2...
NOPE! pwlib problem
I was one of the first to donate before the Club, and was Silver until
I let it expire recently; but I won't renew until I can use the tools
available in a release to help others *without* incurring expenses that
could be avoided by providing a working ohphone (requires pwlib and
openh323) *AND* can use that release in all my systems (currently at 8.2
cuz 9.0 has been totally untrustworthy IME).
This is *NOT* new... search the archives.
All I've been asking is that Mdk help** _us_ help Mdk grow _their_
business...
** or at least, not place/perpetuate roadblocks in our way... no, rebuild
per box is not a scalable answer...
Errr... can you rebuild on one box and copy the rebuilt packages to the
other? I'm not really sure what you're talking about here on a rebuild per
box.
Anyways, I don't personally know anything about ohphone. I also wasn't
asking for bug reports. If you have a fix for something, please provide it.
Errata, by what I'm referring to, is the stuff that goes on our errata
pages. Ie. this doesn't work out of the box, so configure it this way or
the like... see the current errata pages for an example of what I'm
referring to.
This kind of report obviously belongs on the cooker list or bugzilla, and
was not what I was asking for.
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 05:47:08PM -0800, James Sparenberg wrote:
=) I don't use it in production, but I do run it on my primary workstation.
It's been pretty stable (actually, I'm quite baffled by the number of bug
reports just because it has been working so well here)
Lucky you! but I've been noticing some very real trends.
Specifically, ATI video cards (especially the mobility) Users that don't
have a full network and the fight against zeroconf and dhcp-client
(seems to have gotten pretty well solved) and anyone on a laptop
especially Compaq's .. 2 out of 3 are byting me in the buns. Update
comes I start to get my wireless working.. new update... it goes
south... I'm almost of the opinion that a Mandrake for Laptops would be
well received. And yes if you haven't guessed I've lost wireless
again. Just which I could get the same error from boot to boot. or
even more important find out why it does work on those occasions when it
does. Havent' had it working since 8.0... *sigh*.. Oh well keep
plugging... keep googling...
Well, my primary workstation isn't anything crazy or fancy, nor is it any
real new stuff. It's just a workstation... =) I code on it, browse on it,
and do my day-to-day rigamarol on it. I don't do multimedia or anything
like that, so I'm not, perhaps, an average user. =) Don't know about
ATI as this machine has an ATI card (some 32MB AGP thing) and a Matrox 2MB
PCI card and it works fine as a dual-head machine. I have another machine
that I just put cooker on yesterday with a Radeon 8500 in it and it works
fine (although I don't play games in Linux, so I couldn't tell you if it was
running in 3D or 2D mode).
As far as wireless goes, I'm still trying to figure out how in the hell to
give it my WEP key so it will connect wirelessly on a Toshiba Satellite I
have. I'm convinced the wireless tools packages sucks as I've never been
able to get it to work (without WEP, yes, but never with WEP enabled). I'm
baffled how Linux can be so superior in some areas, but in this it just
stinks. =) Doing WEP in Win2k was pretty easy with the PCMCIA card
manufacturer's tools, and in OS X it was a breeze. But Linux, ever the
struggle (however, truth be told, I've not run any other distro but Mandrake
on it).
But, since I don't really use that machine, it's not that big of an issue
for me. Apparently some people have gotten WEP to work, and I'd love to
know the black magic of how they did it.
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 10:20:06PM -0500, Mark Weaver wrote:
=) I don't use it in production, but I do run it on my primary
workstation. It's been pretty stable (actually, I'm quite baffled by
the number of bug reports just because it has been working so well
here).
Vincent,
I really get the impression that whether it works well or seems to have
bugs is totally hardware dependent. As for me, I've got it on my primary
workstation here at home and at work, and RC2 is doing magnificantly in
both places. I had a bit of a struggle with networking on a laptop I use
at work, but through persistance and plain old, mule-headed stuborness I
was able to work it out.
Oh, absolutely... I agree with you 110% here. And part of our problem is a
very small hardware budget (obviously, we need to pay developers first). So
we don't have all the latest and greatest that people might be using; which
is what makes the entire cooker process invaluable. We reach a broader
range of hardware through cooker than we ever could otherwise.
I've got cooker running on my workstation and my windows machine (dual-boot)
and both work great. I've got cooker/PPC running on an imac G4 and aside
from a few little oddities, it works great too.
Getting it onto my Toshiba Satellite has been an excercise in futility,
although I haven't had too much time to spend on it. The RC2 kernel broke
something so even the kernel messages come up very dim, almost unreadable.
And wireless with WEP doesn't work, even in the betas when I could install
it.
I am solidly commited to Mandrake for ever. I've seen the others and
they don't hold a candle to even the beta releases of Mandrake, let
alone the final releases.
This is good to hear, and I agree with you myself. I'm not afraid to use
non-Mandrake stuff when warranted, but let me tell you... No other distro
holds a candle to Mandrake as far as I'm concerned, for a workstation or
server. So I've got FreeBSD running on a P166 for testing (used for writing
stuff on my linsec.ca site), and OpenBSD on a Sparc Station2. Then I use OS
X on my ibook and dual-boot it on my G4 lamp. Otherwise, this is a 100%
Mandrake shop (all Linux here is Mandrake).
And I do try other distros... I think I've tried every distro at least once
by now.
I am ponderous though about the nav window buginess of KDE apps when
running in KDE. they don't appear to work correctly. I posted this on
cooker, but it hasn't even gotten a bite in three days.
Can't help you with that one... I'm using fluxbox now and if not that,
GNOME. anti-KDE sentiment aside, I don't really use it. =)
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 10:24:01PM -0500, Mark Weaver wrote:
There likely is, but I don't know it. I'm probably using 20% of
mutt's full potential. I can delete an entire thread, but it keeps
coming back the next time I'm in the mail box. I don't think mutt
remembers this kind of thing, although I could be wrong.
Mozilla does a real nice job of this; keeping track I mean.
Problem is, I read mail on my ibook and use OS X... so I can use mutt in a
terminal just fine. With Mozilla, the Enigmail stuff is beta for OS X and
doesn't work too hot, so I can't use GPG with my mail if I go the Mozilla
route. Maybe one day... =)
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sun, 2003-03-16 at 01:23, Vincent Danen wrote: Oh, absolutely... I agree with you 110% here. And part of our problem is a very small hardware budget (obviously, we need to pay developers first). So we don't have all the latest and greatest that people might be using; which is what makes the entire cooker process invaluable. We reach a broader range of hardware through cooker than we ever could otherwise. Each and every manufacturer of hardware ought to send mandrake samples to use in testing. It's a new law I just made up, so tell them to send it all now, 'cause I say so!! But sheesh, I would have though some/many of them would do it purely in their own interests! -- Azrael (\''/).___..--'''-._ `0_ O ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' .' ((i).-'' ((i).' (((.-' Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat. ICQ#52944566 Registered Linux User: 269002 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
This time Vincent Danen [EMAIL PROTECTED] becomes daring and writes: On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 10:24:01PM -0500, Mark Weaver wrote: There likely is, but I don't know it. I'm probably using 20% of mutt's full potential. I can delete an entire thread, but it keeps coming back the next time I'm in the mail box. I don't think mutt remembers this kind of thing, although I could be wrong. Mozilla does a real nice job of this; keeping track I mean. Problem is, I read mail on my ibook and use OS X... so I can use mutt in a terminal just fine. With Mozilla, the Enigmail stuff is beta for OS X and doesn't work too hot, so I can't use GPG with my mail if I go the Mozilla route. Maybe one day... =) Told you once, told you a million times...use gnus! :P Vox -- Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs. Kind of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_ technology than everyone else. -- Donald B. Marti Jr. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:29:01 +0100 Steffen Barszus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [lots snipped] On Sunday 16 March 2003 00:28, Pierre Fortin wrote: That's plain wrong thinking... if Mdk wants to limit their sales to just those who test/run Cooker, I might agree... BUT... they want to sell as much as they can, and they really have no way of telling how people will use the distro. If there are some applications that won't even *start*, what does that say for Mdk QA??? After all, the distro is named Mandrake Linux, not Linux By A Rag-tag Bunch of Cooker/Wannabe Testers Who Didn't Have the Time or Inclination to Test All the Applications: Good Luck!... If you are long enoushould know that it can running flawless and do not even start on another machine. So testing on some given machines would not mean it does work for you. (for whatever reason) That is why you should test it if you want have running it. So the statement you are doing is not valid. Why do some people insist on replying, just to make some orthogonal, ephemeral points? I am talking about PROGRAMS THAT WILL *NOT* RUN ON ***ANY*** MACHINE BECAUSE THEY HAVE *NOT* BEEN COMPILED OR LINKED PROPERLY(PERIOD)! as stated above . What is needed is a good bugreport from you. And it got IGNORED! Not just once... All that was left to do was to rebuild the RPM *correctly* and release it as an UPDATE... For 9.0, I reported it, was even blamed for building it wrong, pointed out I just installed it, got the impression it would be fixed, not! You wouldn't be blamed for building it wrong if you are reporting it to cooker. Reporting it to cooker is what is needed. Right... on a RELEASED distro... oh, phooey... just go read the archives from shortly after 9.0 was released. Invalid statement. They don't put not working apps in mandrake, the only thing is they can't know if it is working for you. BUT THEY ***CAN*** KNOW IF IT WON'T WORK FOR *ANYONE*!!! NO? SIGH Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
So young So angry! Damn that rap music! Pierre Fortin wrote: On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 01:29:01 +0100 Steffen Barszus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [lots snipped] On Sunday 16 March 2003 00:28, Pierre Fortin wrote: That's plain wrong thinking... if Mdk wants to limit their sales to just those who test/run Cooker, I might agree... BUT... they want to sell as much as they can, and they really have no way of telling how people will use the distro. If there are some applications that won't even *start*, what does that say for Mdk QA??? After all, the distro is named Mandrake Linux, not Linux By A Rag-tag Bunch of Cooker/Wannabe Testers Who Didn't Have the Time or Inclination to Test All the Applications: Good Luck!... If you are long enoushould know that it can running flawless and do not even start on another machine. So testing on some given machines would not mean it does work for you. (for whatever reason) That is why you should test it if you want have running it. So the statement you are doing is not valid. Why do some people insist on replying, just to make some orthogonal, ephemeral points? I am talking about PROGRAMS THAT WILL *NOT* RUN ON ***ANY*** MACHINE BECAUSE THEY HAVE *NOT* BEEN COMPILED OR LINKED PROPERLY(PERIOD)! as stated above . What is needed is a good bugreport from you. And it got IGNORED! Not just once... All that was left to do was to rebuild the RPM *correctly* and release it as an UPDATE... For 9.0, I reported it, was even blamed for building it wrong, pointed out I just installed it, got the impression it would be fixed, not! You wouldn't be blamed for building it wrong if you are reporting it to cooker. Reporting it to cooker is what is needed. Right... on a RELEASED distro... oh, phooey... just go read the archives from shortly after 9.0 was released. Invalid statement. They don't put not working apps in mandrake, the only thing is they can't know if it is working for you. BUT THEY ***CAN*** KNOW IF IT WON'T WORK FOR *ANYONE*!!! NO? SIGH Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Mike McNeese Springdale, Arkansas USA == Dual booting 98lite;MDK 9.0 kernel 2.4.19-16 Kde 3.1 Registered Linux User #248955 acqua / Keramik Theme == If obstacles are what you see in your path... Then you have lost sight of your goal! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:06:52 -0700 Vincent Danen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This msg is intended to rock the boat, shake the tree, whatever... I'm in no mood tonight for posturing, be kind to Mdk, whatever... I'm making this point one last time because I *CARE*; use it or lose it. [Note to Todd: feel free to terminate this thread anytime :] On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 08:35:18PM -0500, Pierre Fortin wrote: Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a release? This you'll have to ask the developers. I'm sure most use the applications they're in charge of. Some likely don't (I, for myself, am the maintainer of mailman and don't use it... one reason I've been trying to pawn it off on someone who does actually use it because I know I'm the worst person to package it). Look... all I'm suggesting is that before a prog is released, if someone just tried to start it before packaging/releasing it, a lot of time wouldn't be wasted - downloading it - installing it - trying it - BOOM aka segfault, missing libs, whatever... - reporting it - discussing it - starting all over - etc multiplied by the number of testers involved. Then, even worse, N_testers==0 (not even a token start by the maintainer) and it's released in this untested, unworking mode... The Linux community (testers and/or users) as a whole does not need its collective time wasted in this way... if the maintainer had released an update to ohphone, without even going into all the other 9.0 issues I've had, I would have worked to get more customers... but NO, the next thing I hear is how Mdk needs money... I've made it clear since the release of 9.0 that IMO, it's the worst release ever from Mdk... if 9.1 continues to make it difficult for someone like me to help get more customers, then you've not only lost me, you've lost some future sales, and maybe some repeat sales. And NO, I can't be doing that and cooker testing too... All I expect is a reasonably working release and ***updates when required***. If those updates don't come, then I can't in good conscience migrate someone to Mdk... (one exception; see below). All I've been asking is that Mdk help** _us_ help Mdk grow _their_ business... ** or at least, not place/perpetuate roadblocks in our way... no, rebuild per box is not a scalable answer... Errr... can you rebuild on one box and copy the rebuilt packages to the other? I'm not really sure what you're talking about here on a rebuild per box. How do you propose I do that in this scenario... I convince someone to make the switch, send them some CDs and sufficient information to get started and online. Then I connect remotely and help with the setup, answer questions, etc... Did I mention that these people are hundreds of miles away...?? With only one phone line...?? Have you tried to talk someone through something, when they've barely got the system working in that situation? Until 8.2, I could drop icons onto their desktop and and have them click on ohphone and *talk* to them... sure beats IM, IRC, chat, e-mail... especially when you can have them tell you (verbally) what they're doing as-they're-doing-it instead of try it, hangup, call me, try to describe it, Phooey I must've written a full chapter of this book already on this OHPHONE issue since the release of 9.0 ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED IF THE IMPROPERLY BUILT PACKAGE HAD SIMPLY BEEN RE-COMPILED WITH THE ***CORRECT*** COMPILER AND PUT OUT AS AN UPDATE Anyways, I don't personally know anything about ohphone. I also wasn't ^^ ARGH! Why do people go through so much discussion, only to say this asking for bug reports. If you have a fix for something, please provide it. My *fix* as an END-USER is to report the problem and apply an update... I've MORE than done my part on the first step; but I'm STILL waiting for the update -- which surely won't come now that 9.1 is on the horizon. Errata, by what I'm referring to, is the stuff that goes on our errata pages. Ie. this doesn't work out of the box, so configure it this way or the like... see the current errata pages for an example of what I'm referring to. PLEASE.! Go to the maintainer of ohphone for 9.0 and follow exactly what happened, why it happened, how it got reported, what the answer was, why I replied **I** was not the one who compiled it wrong, what the response was, and then... what happened after... never mind the last step (answer==nothing). Then, watching over the maintainer, have the problem corrected, and document every step... then tell me how EACH AND EVERY [mostly new] **end-user** wanting/needing this product should be expected to do that... Sure _I_ could figure out how to do all that; but it's time away from trying to gain new converts... but that's Mdk's choice; just don't come whining to me any
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:05:22 -0600 mycal62 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So young So angry! Damn that rap music! Suffice it to say: I've been retired since 1999 and don't have the same amount of lifetime left to waste as younger folk do. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Sun Mar 16, 2003 at 01:27:50AM +, Azrael wrote:
Oh, absolutely... I agree with you 110% here. And part of our problem is a
very small hardware budget (obviously, we need to pay developers first). So
we don't have all the latest and greatest that people might be using; which
is what makes the entire cooker process invaluable. We reach a broader
range of hardware through cooker than we ever could otherwise.
Each and every manufacturer of hardware ought to send mandrake samples
to use in testing. It's a new law I just made up, so tell them to send
it all now, 'cause I say so!!
But sheesh, I would have though some/many of them would do it purely in
their own interests!
You'd think so. Unfortunately, hardware manufacturers can be more arrogant
than software vendors sometimes... =)
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
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[expert] 9.1 comming?
I have removed the last bug I had for 9.1 (^_^) I think 9.1 is ready to come. I will be a great distributions, the Mandrake team has worked very well, draktools look pretty well and now seems that all are runing (even my digital camera has been instaled throughout a line in the fstab about usb-storage media). I hope Mandrake could survive to its finnancial problems, there has been a great activity the last month (new releases, a book, .. Anyway, I have the cooker from last mondey with some updates packages, so it is practically the real 9.1, but I am still nervous waiting for it. (^_^) Happy for Mandrake 9.1, :-( sad because it seems that sooner millions of irakies will probably be fighted by the war. Bad times for the freedom are coming, aren't they? -- Francisco Alcaraz Ariza Departamento de Biología Vegetal Universidad de Murcia E-30100 Murcia España (Spain) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 08:32:05PM +0100, Francisco Alcaraz Ariza wrote:
[...]
(^_^) Happy for Mandrake 9.1, :-( sad because it seems that
sooner millions of irakies will probably be fighted by the
war.
Bad times for the freedom are coming, aren't they?
Good grief. Are you *trying* to provoke people? Why this was added at the
end I don't know, other than the fact that you want to be a sh*t disturber.
Please refrain from these comments. They really have no place here and I'm
disappointed to see that people who are supposed to be intelligent enough to
be deemed experts feel the need to continue with this.
Yes, it's not nice, yes people will die, yes we all have our opinions, no
you likely won't change someone else's opinion, bla bla bla.
Please, stop! Instead of promoting Mandrake and this particular community,
you're hurting it. People will leave the lists over continued nuances and
blatant badgering over this extremely off-topic thread. If you feel the
need to discuss it, please do so on an off-topic list or subscribe to some
political, anti-war, or tree-hugger's mailing list. I'm sure they exist.
I am, personally, about half an inch from unsubscribing from this list as
well, although it pains me to do so as some people have questions regarding
security and updates that I like to help with. But I simply can't stand the
amount of off-topic garbage coming through the Mandrake lists these days...
it's already caused me to unsubscribe from cooker. I'm sure I'm not the
only who feels their time is more valuable than wading through this crud
just to get to the good stuff... no, wait, not even the good stuff... the
*relevant* stuff.
Please be considerate of the others on this list. I understand you want to
get your point across. If you feel so strongly, put up a web page with
your thoughts and provide the URL in your sig. Please stop polluting the
list.
Unfortunately, I likely will not be permitted to start hacking through the
members list and removing everyone who posts OT... =( Which means that the
responsibility lies on every list member's shoulders to a) not start these
threads and b) not feed them.
My apologies to everyone for even responding to this in the first place.
I considered it for a full 5 minutes before doing so, and even somewhat
regret doing it anyways, but with the amount of off-topic stuff going to the
lists these days, I felt I had to say something to encourage folks to be a
little more respectful of the other subscribers.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:45:07 -0700 Vincent Danen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am, personally, about half an inch from unsubscribing from this list as well, although it pains me to do so as some people have questions regarding security and updates that I like to help with. But I simply can't stand the amount of off-topic garbage coming through the Mandrake lists these days... Vincent I do no know if mutt has any similar option but with sylpheed-claws I can set a thread as 'ignore' and set a processing rule that all 'ignore thread' messages be deleted. In this manner I do not have to worry with being accosted by some of the crap that gets posted to the list since I never see them. Charles -- Tempt me with a spoon! - Mandrake Linux 9.1 on PurpleDragon Kernel- 2.4.21-0.13mdk - pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
Vincent - Francisco - we love you both. At all times, but expecially times like this, the kindest thing we can do for our friends is cut them a little slack. There are bugs, there will always be bugs, I've been using cooker in production for over a month now and it has been a source of joy. A concise errata with a few workarounds would be welcome. Jim Tarvid Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 06:14:27PM -0500, tarvid wrote:
Vincent - Francisco - we love you both.
At all times, but expecially times like this, the kindest thing we can do for
our friends is cut them a little slack.
I don't think there should be slack for consistent OT posters. I don't
really care what times we're in.
There are bugs, there will always be bugs, I've been using cooker in
production for over a month now and it has been a source of joy.
=) I don't use it in production, but I do run it on my primary workstation.
It's been pretty stable (actually, I'm quite baffled by the number of bug
reports just because it has been working so well here).
A concise errata with a few workarounds would be welcome.
No errata till the product is released. Unless you have something you know
for sure won't be addressed in the final release to add?
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 04:27:38PM -0500, Charles A Edwards wrote:
I am, personally, about half an inch from unsubscribing from this list
as well, although it pains me to do so as some people have questions
regarding security and updates that I like to help with. But I simply
can't stand the amount of off-topic garbage coming through the
Mandrake lists these days...
Vincent
I do no know if mutt has any similar option but with sylpheed-claws
I can set a thread as 'ignore' and set a processing rule that all
'ignore thread' messages be deleted.
In this manner I do not have to worry with being accosted by some of the
crap that gets posted to the list since I never see them.
There likely is, but I don't know it. I'm probably using 20% of mutt's full
potential. I can delete an entire thread, but it keeps coming back the next
time I'm in the mail box. I don't think mutt remembers this kind of
thing, although I could be wrong.
--
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
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Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:49:53 -0700 Vincent Danen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unless you have something you know for sure won't be addressed in the final release to add? I do... I'm running 9.0 on only one system -- all the rest are still at 8.2 BUT... the question I have is very simple: Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a release? I'm still quite miffed at 9.0 for a number of reasons; however, last night, I asked another list member if ohphone just *started* in 9.1rc2... NOPE! pwlib problem I was one of the first to donate before the Club, and was Silver until I let it expire recently; but I won't renew until I can use the tools available in a release to help others *without* incurring expenses that could be avoided by providing a working ohphone (requires pwlib and openh323) *AND* can use that release in all my systems (currently at 8.2 cuz 9.0 has been totally untrustworthy IME). This is *NOT* new... search the archives. All I've been asking is that Mdk help** _us_ help Mdk grow _their_ business... ** or at least, not place/perpetuate roadblocks in our way... no, rebuild per box is not a scalable answer... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Fri, 2003-03-14 at 16:49, Vincent Danen wrote: On Fri Mar 14, 2003 at 06:14:27PM -0500, tarvid wrote: Vincent - Francisco - we love you both. At all times, but expecially times like this, the kindest thing we can do for our friends is cut them a little slack. I don't think there should be slack for consistent OT posters. I don't really care what times we're in. There are bugs, there will always be bugs, I've been using cooker in production for over a month now and it has been a source of joy. =) I don't use it in production, but I do run it on my primary workstation. It's been pretty stable (actually, I'm quite baffled by the number of bug reports just because it has been working so well here) Lucky you! but I've been noticing some very real trends. Specifically, ATI video cards (especially the mobility) Users that don't have a full network and the fight against zeroconf and dhcp-client (seems to have gotten pretty well solved) and anyone on a laptop especially Compaq's .. 2 out of 3 are byting me in the buns. Update comes I start to get my wireless working.. new update... it goes south... I'm almost of the opinion that a Mandrake for Laptops would be well received. And yes if you haven't guessed I've lost wireless again. Just which I could get the same error from boot to boot. or even more important find out why it does work on those occasions when it does. Havent' had it working since 8.0... *sigh*.. Oh well keep plugging... keep googling... James . A concise errata with a few workarounds would be welcome. No errata till the product is released. Unless you have something you know for sure won't be addressed in the final release to add? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] 9.1 comming?
On Friday 14 March 2003 08:35 pm, Pierre Fortin wrote: Does Mdk even try just *starting* the applications included in a release? I'm still quite miffed at 9.0 for a number of reasons; however, last night, I asked another list member if ohphone just *started* in 9.1rc2... NOPE! pwlib problem Did anybody test it on the current cooker? IIRC, rc2 was almost 3 weeks ago now. -- Greg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
