Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
It's something you used to have to do on Windows disks. De-Fragment. When you write a lot of small files, then delete some of them, the allocation bitmap for the disk gets to look like a swiss cheese -- lots of little holes. The little holes get used for the next file(s) you write, and those files become fragmented. The net effect is that reading and writing files from a fragmented disk takes longer than from an un-fragmented disk, where the files are mostly contiguous. Sometimes a _lot_ longer for a really badly fragged disk. People used to sell utilities for de-frag'ing windows disks, for lots of money. Nowadays, it's cheaper not to bother... when a disk becomes fragged, you just throw it away and get a newer, bigger, cheaper, one... (;-) Rick um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:19:23 -0400 Rick Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's something you used to have to do on Windows disks. De-Fragment. When you write a lot of small files, then delete some of them, the allocation bitmap for the disk gets to look like a swiss cheese -- lots of little holes. The little holes get used for the next file(s) you write, and those files become fragmented. The net effect is that reading and writing files from a fragmented disk takes longer than from an un-fragmented disk, where the files are mostly contiguous. Sometimes a _lot_ longer for a really badly fragged disk. People used to sell utilities for de-frag'ing windows disks, for lots of money. Nowadays, it's cheaper not to bother... when a disk becomes fragged, you just throw it away and get a newer, bigger, cheaper, one... (;-) Rick uhmm.. you forgot to explain external frag, that one is only the internal. ;o) Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
Rick Thomas wrote: It's something you used to have to do on Windows disks. De-Fragment. When you write a lot of small files, then delete some of them, the allocation bitmap for the disk gets to look like a swiss cheese -- lots of little holes. The little holes get used for the next file(s) you write, and those files become fragmented. The net effect is that reading and writing files from a fragmented disk takes longer than from an un-fragmented disk, where the files are mostly contiguous. Sometimes a _lot_ longer for a really badly fragged disk. People used to sell utilities for de-frag'ing windows disks, for lots of money. Nowadays, it's cheaper not to bother... when a disk becomes fragged, you just throw it away and get a newer, bigger, cheaper, one... (;-) Rick Um...yeah. we knew what it was. guess I should have prefaced that last remark with a special comment that let anyone else know that it was a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek question. Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:19:23 -0400 Rick Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority It's something you used to have to do on Windows disks. De-Fragment. When you write a lot of small files, then delete some of them, the allocation bitmap for the disk gets to look like a swiss cheese -- lots of little holes. The little holes get used for the next file(s) you write, and those files become fragmented. The net effect is that reading and writing files from a fragmented disk takes longer than from an un-fragmented disk, where the files are mostly contiguous. Sometimes a _lot_ longer for a really badly fragged disk. People used to sell utilities for de-frag'ing windows disks, for lots of money. Nowadays, it's cheaper not to bother... when a disk becomes fragged, you just throw it away and get a newer, bigger, cheaper, one... (;-) Rick correct me if I'm wrong... (it happens a lot that I am, trust me I'm married, I know ) but the difference between vfat and ext2 is the way they write back a file. With vfat, say with a 4 gig partition and 2 gigs of data, it attempts to write the file back to the same space that it came from. If the file won't fit it then points to the remaining part written in the first available free space that will hold it. As single file could have 4, 5 or more fragments as it grows larger and larger. (it will maintain the existing fragments and create new ones as needed.) ext2 as I understand it looks at the original spot, determines if it will fit, and if not writes the changed file to a new location that has enough continuous space to hold the entire file. This minimizes fragmentation but does tend to have data all over the place. Aesthetically unpleasing but once a file is found in the map yields a faster read, and less fragments that despite theories to the contrary, do get lost. Now if you have 1.8 gigs of data on a 2 gig drive the ability to find free space is severely reduced. Maybe this is the problem in Alaska. The drive is too full. I don't know, but it is interesting how it happened and worth looking into for sure. James um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
Damian G wrote: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:19:23 -0400 Rick Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's something you used to have to do on Windows disks. De-Fragment. When you write a lot of small files, then delete some of them, the allocation bitmap for the disk gets to look like a swiss cheese -- lots of little holes. The little holes get used for the next file(s) you write, and those files become fragmented. The net effect is that reading and writing files from a fragmented disk takes longer than from an un-fragmented disk, where the files are mostly contiguous. Sometimes a _lot_ longer for a really badly fragged disk. People used to sell utilities for de-frag'ing windows disks, for lots of money. Nowadays, it's cheaper not to bother... when a disk becomes fragged, you just throw it away and get a newer, bigger, cheaper, one... (;-) Rick uhmm.. you forgot to explain external frag, that one is only the internal. ;o) Damian O! do tell!! Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
O! do tell!! Mark uhm.. [Foo_] let's say this is a harddrive, where: _ : blank space. F, oo : files 1 and 2. that drive would be in perfect state, right? all files stored neatly one after the other and the free space is all together at the end of the disk. now, this: [FFFooFoFooo_] this is called internal fragmentation. after a lot of changes in file sizes, chunks of files get mixed up, making a file read a slower process... file 1 and 2 are fragmented, but the free space is still kept together. a third situation is: [_F___ooo___] this is external fragmentation. here, the files are not fragmented ( no internal fragmentation) however, as a consequence of writing the files at random places on the disk, the free space gets scattered all over. this leads, most of the times to internal fragmentation, too. ( the next time you have to make a file you only have scattered bits of space to write it... ) and at last.. this: [_FoF__ooFoo_F_o__Fo] .this is a typical windows partition that has not beed defragged in a long time. both internal and external fragmentation occurs, both files and free space are a mess. i've also seen defrag tools for the RAM in windows.. ( fragmentation is not limited to harddrives. any modern operating system uses memory paging or segmentation and can suffer internal and external fragmentation in memory pages.. the same little sketches i made would apply, but change the file 1 and file 2 with process 1 and process 2 ) Damian PD: i like making useless explainations ;oP . sorry for a long post. anyhow i think this stuff is useful when you want to learn about and choose filesystems.. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
Um...yeah. we knew what it was. guess I should have prefaced that last remark with a special comment that let anyone else know that it was a sarcastic tongue-in-cheek question. Mark too late! i already posted another one of my explainations! hehehe ;o) ...damn i can be irritating when i've got too much free time.. i'm goin for a cup of coffee and some fresh air before i make the honorable expert list hate me. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
fragmentation in memory pages.. the same little sketches i made would apply, but change the file 1 and file 2 with process 1 and process 2 ) I doubt that's a serious issue. It's kind of silly, really, since any portion of RAM is just as quickly issued as any other. But this is virtual memory (modern OSes) we're discussing. And virtual memory is viewed simplistically as having some memory on some other media (i.e., a swap partition). That is only one aspect of it. In reality, virtual memory means that a process residing at some address N need not really reside at address N on the RAM chips. Realisically, N is only an offset which is maintained by the processor, with the OSes help. One might be able to find out where a process resides physically in the RAM if it starts at address 1 and continues to address 2, but it would be kind of pointless. And, if the process is larger than a page of memory (4K) then one page might be located way away from the others. In fact, in a continually running system, it's practically guaranteed that this is the case. So you end up with something like: .12221 ..1..3...3 ..3.11 . . 3.332...1 .2.22. The 1,2,3 etc. represent processes, of course. As far as the process (is concerned, process 1 occupies continuous virtual addresses starting at 1 for instance. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
Damian G wrote: O! do tell!! Mark uhm.. [Foo_] let's say this is a harddrive, where: _ : blank space. F, oo : files 1 and 2. that drive would be in perfect state, right? all files stored neatly one after the other and the free space is all together at the end of the disk. now, this: [FFFooFoFooo_] this is called internal fragmentation. after a lot of changes in file sizes, chunks of files get mixed up, making a file read a slower process... file 1 and 2 are fragmented, but the free space is still kept together. a third situation is: [_F___ooo___] this is external fragmentation. here, the files are not fragmented ( no internal fragmentation) however, as a consequence of writing the files at random places on the disk, the free space gets scattered all over. this leads, most of the times to internal fragmentation, too. ( the next time you have to make a file you only have scattered bits of space to write it... ) and at last.. this: [_FoF__ooFoo_F_o__Fo] .this is a typical windows partition that has not beed defragged in a long time. both internal and external fragmentation occurs, both files and free space are a mess. i've also seen defrag tools for the RAM in windows.. ( fragmentation is not limited to harddrives. any modern operating system uses memory paging or segmentation and can suffer internal and external fragmentation in memory pages.. the same little sketches i made would apply, but change the file 1 and file 2 with process 1 and process 2 ) Damian PD: i like making useless explainations ;oP . sorry for a long post. anyhow i think this stuff is useful when you want to learn about and choose filesystems.. Damian, That was actually interesting. I hadn't known that before. tanks mang! Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
James wrote: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:19:23 -0400 Rick Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority It's something you used to have to do on Windows disks. De-Fragment. When you write a lot of small files, then delete some of them, the allocation bitmap for the disk gets to look like a swiss cheese -- lots of little holes. The little holes get used for the next file(s) you write, and those files become fragmented. The net effect is that reading and writing files from a fragmented disk takes longer than from an un-fragmented disk, where the files are mostly contiguous. Sometimes a _lot_ longer for a really badly fragged disk. People used to sell utilities for de-frag'ing windows disks, for lots of money. Nowadays, it's cheaper not to bother... when a disk becomes fragged, you just throw it away and get a newer, bigger, cheaper, one... (;-) Rick correct me if I'm wrong... (it happens a lot that I am, trust me I'm married, I know ) but the difference between vfat and ext2 is the way they write back a file. With vfat, say with a 4 gig partition and 2 gigs of data, it attempts to write the file back to the same space that it came from. If the file won't fit it then points to the remaining part written in the first available free space that will hold it. As single file could have 4, 5 or more fragments as it grows larger and larger. (it will maintain the existing fragments and create new ones as needed.) ext2 as I understand it looks at the original spot, determines if it will fit, and if not writes the changed file to a new location that has enough continuous space to hold the entire file. This minimizes fragmentation but does tend to have data all over the place. Aesthetically unpleasing but once a file is found in the map yields a faster read, and less fragments that despite theories to the contrary, do get lost. Now if you have 1.8 gigs of data on a 2 gig drive the ability to find free space is severely reduced. Maybe this is the problem in Alaska. The drive is too full. I don't know, but it is interesting how it happened and worth looking into for sure. James um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Turns out, this fellow never responded. I have reproduced the fragging by deliberately doing a no-no, removing the reserve and then using a modified version of my filesystem exerciser that creates files of random size between 2k and 800K (modified to fill the filesystem 90%) then expands them in place. Now ext2 will automatically fragment large files where a single block cannot contain the whole file, so an older ext2 version without support for sparse superblocks might show some fragmentation on big files first time With the reserved blocks at a healthy setting, the fragmentation doesn't happen in the same way. That's odd. It appears they are fair game for a scratch area. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 12:56:39 -0700 (PDT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (dfox) wrote: fragmentation in memory pages.. the same little sketches i made would apply, but change the file 1 and file 2 with process 1 and process 2 ) I doubt that's a serious issue. It's kind of silly, really, since any portion of RAM is just as quickly issued as any other. But this is virtual memory (modern OSes) we're discussing. And virtual memory is viewed simplistically as having some memory on some other media (i.e., a swap partition). That is only one aspect of it. In reality, virtual memory means that a process residing at some address N need not really reside at address N on the RAM chips. Realisically, N is only an offset which is maintained by the processor, with the OSes help. One might be able to find out where a process resides physically in the RAM if it starts at address 1 and continues to address 2, but it would be kind of pointless. And, if the process is larger than a page of memory (4K) then one page might be located way away from the others. In fact, in a continually running system, it's practically guaranteed that this is the case. actually, external fragmentation of the memory CAN be a problem. yes, running a fragmented process takes the same time, but it bring other problems as well, to the memory management system. it's been a long time since i've studied the issue, and i can't remember exactly what was the overhead involved, but it had something to do with the operating system's process tables' management. in fact, now that you metion swap, fragmenting the memory space will probably mean fragmentation of the swap space in very short time. both external and internal fragmentation in the swap space can degrade performance seriously, by forcing the HD to change the head's position more often, it can result in slow swapping in and out of memory pages. there are many aspects involved in swap performance, one of them being that swap is an extension of the phisical memory but only as a storage space. no process code can be run from the swap. only blocked or waiting process pages will be swapped out, and when they need to change state to ready, running, they must be loaded into the RAM. and this is when fragmentation begins to be a problem... Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:40:34 -0800 civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority James wrote: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:19:23 -0400 Rick Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority It's something you used to have to do on Windows disks. De-Fragment. When you write a lot of small files, then delete some of them, the allocation bitmap for the disk gets to look like a swiss cheese -- lots of little holes. The little holes get used for the next file(s) you write, and those files become fragmented. The net effect is that reading and writing files from a fragmented disk takes longer than from an un-fragmented disk, where the files are mostly contiguous. Sometimes a _lot_ longer for a really badly fragged disk. People used to sell utilities for de-frag'ing windows disks, for lots of money. Nowadays, it's cheaper not to bother... when a disk becomes fragged, you just throw it away and get a newer, bigger, cheaper, one... (;-) Rick correct me if I'm wrong... (it happens a lot that I am, trust me I'm married, I know ) but the difference between vfat and ext2 is the way they write back a file. With vfat, say with a 4 gig partition and 2 gigs of data, it attempts to write the file back to the same space that it came from. If the file won't fit it then points to the remaining part written in the first available free space that will hold it. As single file could have 4, 5 or more fragments as it grows larger and larger. (it will maintain the existing fragments and create new ones as needed.) ext2 as I understand it looks at the original spot, determines if it will fit, and if not writes the changed file to a new location that has enough continuous space to hold the entire file. This minimizes fragmentation but does tend to have data all over the place. Aesthetically unpleasing but once a file is found in the map yields a faster read, and less fragments that despite theories to the contrary, do get lost. Now if you have 1.8 gigs of data on a 2 gig drive the ability to find free space is severely reduced. Maybe this is the problem in Alaska. The drive is too full. I don't know, but it is interesting how it happened and worth looking into for sure. James um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Turns out, this fellow never responded. I have reproduced the fragging by deliberately doing a no-no, removing the reserve and then using a modified version of my filesystem exerciser that creates files of random size between 2k and 800K (modified to fill the filesystem 90%) then expands them in place. Now ext2 will automatically fragment large files where a single block cannot contain the whole file, so an older ext2 version without support for sparse superblocks might show some fragmentation on big files first time With the reserved blocks at a healthy setting, the fragmentation doesn't happen in the same way. That's odd. It appears they are fair game for a scratch area. Civileme Civilme... Since I'm just now starting to get into file systems and how they do/don't work. (AFS xFS Coda HFS etc) I'm curious if you can recommend any reading on this subject. This does interest me. Especially since you can recreate it, deliberately. They are doing some experiments with RLF (Really Large Files) as they call it, 1 terabyte or more. And the more I understand the more intelligently I can listen. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
James wrote: On Sun, 23 Jun 2002 14:40:34 -0800 civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority James wrote: On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 03:19:23 -0400 Rick Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority It's something you used to have to do on Windows disks. De-Fragment. When you write a lot of small files, then delete some of them, the allocation bitmap for the disk gets to look like a swiss cheese -- lots of little holes. The little holes get used for the next file(s) you write, and those files become fragmented. The net effect is that reading and writing files from a fragmented disk takes longer than from an un-fragmented disk, where the files are mostly contiguous. Sometimes a _lot_ longer for a really badly fragged disk. People used to sell utilities for de-frag'ing windows disks, for lots of money. Nowadays, it's cheaper not to bother... when a disk becomes fragged, you just throw it away and get a newer, bigger, cheaper, one... (;-) Rick correct me if I'm wrong... (it happens a lot that I am, trust me I'm married, I know ) but the difference between vfat and ext2 is the way they write back a file. With vfat, say with a 4 gig partition and 2 gigs of data, it attempts to write the file back to the same space that it came from. If the file won't fit it then points to the remaining part written in the first available free space that will hold it. As single file could have 4, 5 or more fragments as it grows larger and larger. (it will maintain the existing fragments and create new ones as needed.) ext2 as I understand it looks at the original spot, determines if it will fit, and if not writes the changed file to a new location that has enough continuous space to hold the entire file. This minimizes fragmentation but does tend to have data all over the place. Aesthetically unpleasing but once a file is found in the map yields a faster read, and less fragments that despite theories to the contrary, do get lost. Now if you have 1.8 gigs of data on a 2 gig drive the ability to find free space is severely reduced. Maybe this is the problem in Alaska. The drive is too full. I don't know, but it is interesting how it happened and worth looking into for sure. James um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Turns out, this fellow never responded. I have reproduced the fragging by deliberately doing a no-no, removing the reserve and then using a modified version of my filesystem exerciser that creates files of random size between 2k and 800K (modified to fill the filesystem 90%) then expands them in place. Now ext2 will automatically fragment large files where a single block cannot contain the whole file, so an older ext2 version without support for sparse superblocks might show some fragmentation on big files first time With the reserved blocks at a healthy setting, the fragmentation doesn't happen in the same way. That's odd. It appears they are fair game for a scratch area. Civileme Civilme... Since I'm just now starting to get into file systems and how they do/don't work. (AFS xFS Coda HFS etc) I'm curious if you can recommend any reading on this subject. This does interest me. Especially since you can recreate it, deliberately. They are doing some experiments with RLF (Really Large Files) as they call it, 1 terabyte or more. And the more I understand the more intelligently I can listen. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com I cannot beat the info that comes up on a Google search, except find an ancient copy of the series by Knuth for an excellent explanation of B-Trees and B+Trees before trying the Reiser information on the Reiser site. Civileme Yes, the published word in this case is less than the web word, for most of the journey. As always read with a jaundiced eye and test the logic with your own knowledge and experimentation. There's not nearly as much useless and misleading info about computers and filesystems out there as there is about, say, hypnosis, but there is still plenty more than enough. My policy is to IGNORE ALL BENCHMARKS except those I run myself, and take a bicycle ride before benchmarking anything, asking myself if I have covered all cases that are important to me (and giving myself the wrong answers half the time). Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
It seems clear to me that ext2 does not like cold HDDs... :^D Wooky James wrote: On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:41:02 -0800 civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority Quit joking around. Someone in Alaska has managed to achive MORE than 50% frag on ext2. I am investigating as are several UNIX old-timers Civileme Civilme, Did see a FreeBSD box get 20% fragmentation once. But only after a power jitter (power goes off and on about a dozen times bouncing it between UPS and line power) However at that point it was severely messed up in other ways as well.(turns out it was a lousy UPS and didn't properly react to the power problem.) Personally I'd really like to know HOW this was achieved. James -- -- shinjiteiru shinjirareru, korekara aruku kono michi wo! kimi ga iru yo, boku ga iru yo sore ijou nani mo iranai. umareta imi ,sagasu yori mo ima ikiteru koto kanjite, kotae yori mo, daiji na mono hitotsu hitotsu mitsuketeiku... Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
Damian G wrote: um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Quit joking around. Someone in Alaska has managed to achive MORE than 50% frag on ext2. I am investigating as are several UNIX old-timers Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Friday 21 June 2002 12:01 am, you wrote: um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian heck I wish I coulda figgured out how to take off the frag I was accused of durring Veit Nam, coulda saved a lotta time for me the first day of the Court Marshal opening statements; first you frag the a$$hole officer in his sleep, then run defrag durring the trial, everything is all right now... is that the correct order of events, Sargent? Oh yes sir, micksofts defrag makes everything all right, and run faster too. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
et wrote: heck I wish I coulda figgured out how to take off the frag I was accused of durring Veit Nam, coulda saved a lotta time for me the first day of the Court Marshal opening statements; first you frag the a$$hole officer in his sleep, then run defrag durring the trial, everything is all right now... is that the correct order of events, Sargent? Oh yes sir, micksofts defrag makes everything all right, and run faster too. You are one sick puppy, et. Hell, if you had to frag one green LT, only in country for a few short days or weeks, you can have my medals (which ain't too many). drjung -- J. Craig Woods UNIX/NT Network/System Administration http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
civileme wrote: Damian G wrote: um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Quit joking around. Someone in Alaska has managed to achive MORE than 50% frag on ext2. I am investigating as are several UNIX old-timers Civileme O yeah...now it's going to get Real interesting. I love it when the old-timers get involved cause thats when school is in session. Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
et wrote: On Friday 21 June 2002 12:01 am, you wrote: um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian heck I wish I coulda figgured out how to take off the frag I was accused of durring Veit Nam, coulda saved a lotta time for me the first day of the Court Marshal opening statements; first you frag the a$$hole officer in his sleep, then run defrag durring the trial, everything is all right now... is that the correct order of events, Sargent? Oh yes sir, micksofts defrag makes everything all right, and run faster too. et, So...you lit up his shorts did ya? ;) he prolly needed it. Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:41:02 -0800 civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority Damian G wrote: um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Quit joking around. Someone in Alaska has managed to achive MORE than 50% frag on ext2. I am investigating as are several UNIX old-timers Civileme Civilme, Did see a FreeBSD box get 20% fragmentation once. But only after a power jitter (power goes off and on about a dozen times bouncing it between UPS and line power) However at that point it was severely messed up in other ways as well.(turns out it was a lousy UPS and didn't properly react to the power problem.) Personally I'd really like to know HOW this was achieved. James Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Wednesday 19 June 2002 03:16 pm, daRcmaTTeR wrote: James wrote: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:17:37 -0400 daRcmaTTeR [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority James wrote: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:33:24 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Jes** Chr*** on a blue crutch !! -- tying jaw to head !!! -- On Mon, 2002-06-17 at 12:35, Peter Ruskin wrote: On Monday 17 Jun 2002 17:02, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 19:39, Peter Ruskin wrote: I believe that is true - I wouldn't try to have a separate /etc. My separate partitions are: snip I'm thinking with that kind of scheme such as you employ, you must have a buttload of disk space. ;) PDC20265: (U)DMA Burst Bit ENABLED Primary PCI Mode Secondary PCI Mode.ide2: BM-DMA at 0xec00-0xec07, BIOS settings: hde:DMA, hdf:DMAide3: BM-DMA at 0xec08-0xec0f, BIOS settings: hdg:DMA, hdh:DMA insert the rest of his mind-numbing parititons here I'm with LX. Jesus is not quite the statement I'd reach for tho, thats too much of an understatement! 3 points. 1. No answer on the 3com thing yet. 2. What's LX 3. I was at a lab the other day for a business meeting. The have just under one PETAbyte of data in their Database server alone. Holyu crap James! I bet it take a little while to do a few small queries on that monster! I can't even begin to imagine what a PETAbyte looks like. Mark Oh about an 80 x 100 foot room... and actually most queries he said take under 20 secs. It's wild I was drooling. They had one cluster of 2000 linux boxes. Right now they are all 1u's since blades still aren't up to snuff. This place rocked. Wow! James...I envy you. I've never seen that kind of computing power before. even though I know it exists it's still all myth and legend to me. Mark I guess it's all those years with Windows combined with not having any knowledge whatsoever about server farms, but my very first thought was, Damn, I'll bet it takes a long time to defrag that thing. -- cmg um...whats defrag? Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
James wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:51:38 -0400 Carroll Grigsby [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority On Wednesday 19 June 2002 03:16 pm, daRcmaTTeR wrote: James wrote: On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:17:37 -0400 daRcmaTTeR [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority James wrote: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:33:24 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Jes** Chr*** on a blue crutch !! -- tying jaw to head !!! -- On Mon, 2002-06-17 at 12:35, Peter Ruskin wrote: On Monday 17 Jun 2002 17:02, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 19:39, Peter Ruskin wrote: I believe that is true - I wouldn't try to have a separate /etc. My separate partitions are: snip I'm thinking with that kind of scheme such as you employ, you must have a buttload of disk space. ;) PDC20265: (U)DMA Burst Bit ENABLED Primary PCI Mode Secondary PCI Mode.ide2: BM-DMA at 0xec00-0xec07, BIOS settings: hde:DMA, hdf:DMAide3: BM-DMA at 0xec08-0xec0f, BIOS settings: hdg:DMA, hdh:DMA insert the rest of his mind-numbing parititons here I'm with LX. Jesus is not quite the statement I'd reach for tho, thats too much of an understatement! 3 points. 1. No answer on the 3com thing yet. 2. What's LX 3. I was at a lab the other day for a business meeting. The have just under one PETAbyte of data in their Database server alone. Holyu crap James! I bet it take a little while to do a few small queries on that monster! I can't even begin to imagine what a PETAbyte looks like. Mark Oh about an 80 x 100 foot room... and actually most queries he said take under 20 secs. It's wild I was drooling. They had one cluster of 2000 linux boxes. Right now they are all 1u's since blades still aren't up to snuff. This place rocked. Wow! James...I envy you. I've never seen that kind of computing power before. even though I know it exists it's still all myth and legend to me. Mark I guess it's all those years with Windows combined with not having any knowledge whatsoever about server farms, but my very first thought was, Damn, I'll bet it takes a long time to defrag that thing. -- cmg With tongue in cheek I asked him about fsck... He laughed and said It's faster to restore from backup and skip it. James now _that_ is truely scary. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
um...whats defrag? Mark .. ya know.. it's for taking off the frag. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
civileme grabbed a keyboard and wrote: David Guntner wrote: KevinO grabbed a keyboard and wrote: During bootup the kernel needs to read /etc/fstab to know what other filesystems (partitions) to mount where. If /etc/fstab is not in the root filesystem, the system will never be able to finish mounting the filesystems. That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. But it's still annoying. :-) It just makes more sense now. Thanks for the reality check. Actually, making separate filesystems of any of the following will stop the system in its tracks: /etc, /bin, /lib, /sbin Those really need to be in /. Agreed, now that I'm thinking straight. :-) Now as for alias rm rm -i I don't recall complaining about the rm alias :-) suppose you are typing rm -r /somepath/.somecorruptedconfigdir -f and at the point where you have typed rm -r / The cat jumps up to get your attention and lands a paw on Enter. Are you going to chuckle because you didn't type -f and the -i is already aliased in? Or are you going to determine if cat really tastes like chicken because you didn't have -i? I'd be determining if the cat really tastes like chicken, because when I want to get rid of a directory recursively, I type rm -rf /the/directory/to/delete Assuming that I'm not above the directory that I want to get rid of. 99.999% of the time (I'm sure it's actually 100%, but I'm allowing for the possibility that I might do it the other way), if I want to get rid of a directory, I will cd to the directory above the one that I want to get rid of, and then just rm -rf directoryname Which is much less dangerous than typing anything starting with / when using those options. :-) Finally, we are targeting windows desktop migrants and NT server migrations rather than trying to draw customers away from other linux distros, so you can expect an approach that does a little hand-holding as the audience has come to expect. (They say we don't do enough, especially when they blow up their systems using the update program on a kernel -- well look at our new kernel update numbering--it won't show as an update--have to DL and install) I'm glad to hear that. :-) When I was new to Mandrake, I was certainly one of the people who got caught by that when it still showed up. rpmdrake didn't give any warnings about using it on a kernel. I know better *now*, but it wasn't until it was too late that I learned that lesson --Dave -- David Guntner GEnie: Just say NO! http://www.akaMail.com/pgpkey/davidg or key server for PGP Public key Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
James wrote: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:33:24 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Jes** Chr*** on a blue crutch !! -- tying jaw to head !!! -- On Mon, 2002-06-17 at 12:35, Peter Ruskin wrote: On Monday 17 Jun 2002 17:02, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 19:39, Peter Ruskin wrote: I believe that is true - I wouldn't try to have a separate /etc. My separate partitions are: snip I'm thinking with that kind of scheme such as you employ, you must have a buttload of disk space. ;) PDC20265: (U)DMA Burst Bit ENABLED Primary PCI Mode Secondary PCI Mode.ide2: BM-DMA at 0xec00-0xec07, BIOS settings: hde:DMA, hdf:DMAide3: BM-DMA at 0xec08-0xec0f, BIOS settings: hdg:DMA, hdh:DMA insert the rest of his mind-numbing parititons here I'm with LX. Jesus is not quite the statement I'd reach for tho, thats too much of an understatement! 3 points. 1. No answer on the 3com thing yet. 2. What's LX 3. I was at a lab the other day for a business meeting. The have just under one PETAbyte of data in their Database server alone. Holyu crap James! I bet it take a little while to do a few small queries on that monster! I can't even begin to imagine what a PETAbyte looks like. Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
civileme wrote: David Guntner wrote: KevinO grabbed a keyboard and wrote: David Guntner wrote: I tried to create a separate /etc filesystem ... Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong ... During bootup the kernel needs to read /etc/fstab to know what other filesystems (partitions) to mount where. If /etc/fstab is not in the root filesystem, the system will never be able to finish mounting the filesystems. That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. But it's still annoying. :-) It just makes more sense now. Thanks for the reality check. --Dave Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Actually, making separate filesystems of any of the following will stop the system in its tracks: /etc, /bin, /lib, /sbin Those really need to be in /. Now as for alias rm rm -i suppose you are typing rm -r /somepath/.somecorruptedconfigdir -f and at the point where you have typed rm -r / The cat jumps up to get your attention and lands a paw on Enter. Are you going to chuckle because you didn't type -f and the -i is already aliased in? Or are you going to determine if cat really tastes like chicken because you didn't have -i? I don't know about you, but 98% of the time my computer has a problem, the problem has its hands on my keyboard, and I have too much data flying in a single day to risk it til the next backup for the sake of a little convenience. I would call it thoughtful rather than paternalistic. Some of the things that might appear paternalistic are not in fact so. They are forced to some decision. For example, if you have an internet connection and a local network connection, you can put in one nameserver for the LAN and two for the internet. Major redesign at linux standards level is involved for more than 3 nameservers, and it either had to be two for one and one for the other or one for each and another reserved for an additional purpose. That is for the GUI setup scripts. Of course you find all of them regardless in /etc/resolv.conf, just set up a bit differently in /etc/sysconfig/network, and you can certainly change this with an editor. Finally, we are targeting windows desktop migrants and NT server migrations rather than trying to draw customers away from other linux distros, so you can expect an approach that does a little hand-holding as the audience has come to expect. (They say we don't do enough, especially when they blow up their systems using the update program on a kernel -- well look at our new kernel update numbering--it won't show as an update--have to DL and install) Civileme Civileme, Truely, it's guys like you working for a distro like Mandrake that cause me to love and respect Mandrake so much. Well said! No matter how you slice it, pound for pound... ounce for ounce, Mandrake has them all beat. While with Linux, it's all good the cream always rises to the top. Mark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:17:37 -0400 daRcmaTTeR [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority James wrote: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 15:33:24 -0600 FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] said with temporary authority Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Jes** Chr*** on a blue crutch !! -- tying jaw to head !!! -- On Mon, 2002-06-17 at 12:35, Peter Ruskin wrote: On Monday 17 Jun 2002 17:02, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 19:39, Peter Ruskin wrote: I believe that is true - I wouldn't try to have a separate /etc. My separate partitions are: snip I'm thinking with that kind of scheme such as you employ, you must have a buttload of disk space. ;) PDC20265: (U)DMA Burst Bit ENABLED Primary PCI Mode Secondary PCI Mode.ide2: BM-DMA at 0xec00-0xec07, BIOS settings: hde:DMA, hdf:DMAide3: BM-DMA at 0xec08-0xec0f, BIOS settings: hdg:DMA, hdh:DMA insert the rest of his mind-numbing parititons here I'm with LX. Jesus is not quite the statement I'd reach for tho, thats too much of an understatement! 3 points. 1. No answer on the 3com thing yet. 2. What's LX 3. I was at a lab the other day for a business meeting. The have just under one PETAbyte of data in their Database server alone. Holyu crap James! I bet it take a little while to do a few small queries on that monster! I can't even begin to imagine what a PETAbyte looks like. Mark Oh about an 80 x 100 foot room... and actually most queries he said take under 20 secs. It's wild I was drooling. They had one cluster of 2000 linux boxes. Right now they are all 1u's since blades still aren't up to snuff. This place rocked. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
et wrote: the moving target that a (IMHO) good Linux Distro should be is one of the greatest problems with creating book documentation, I would guess. by the time the reasearch and writting and printing and distribution of the paper goes out, it would be time for the next distro, with a number of improvments that would render the old book about as good as a 1970 phone book for Miami. the stuff flat out changed. It has been my experiance that the best documentation I can find is either refered to on is in this mail list (and the newbie list for installation) and some of the least fricton of any help method. I'm hoping WikiLearn can help address this problem. It's not there yet, by any means, but take a look at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/AboutThesePages. You can help, in any of these ways: * If you have a question, try seeing if it's answered on WikiLearn -- try http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/search/Wikilearn, or just click on search from any WikiLearn page. (Or try a Google search with site:twiki.org or site:twiki.sourceforge.net in the search query.) * If it's not answered (or you don't think it's answered, after at least some attempt at a search), try creating a WikiLearn page with the question on it. Post to expert (newbie, or any other mail list), saying that you have a question about such and such and it's posted at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/name of WikiLearn page. Suggest that people answer the question on that page. * Register to edit WikiLearn at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiRegistration. * Subscribe to get a daily notification of page changes at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/WebNotify. * If you can answer a question, or help answer a question, edit the page with the question appropriately. * If you are experienced in Linux, Perl, cgi, html, and other good stuff, help me move WikiLearn to it's permanent location on SourceForge. Do a TWiki search on ToDo in page (topic) names, or help me set up utilities and procedures for things like backups and so forth. Notes: 1. Pages can be renamed, so if the initial name for a page is not intuitive / descriptive enough, the page name can be changed. Usually, it is a good idea to recreate the original page, delete all the boilerplate text, and put a note there saying Moved to name of new WikiLearn page. 2. WikiLearn is indexed on Google and similar web search engines. On Google, WikiLearn is indexed under two different domains, twiki.org and twiki.sourceforge.net. Last time I checked, the update cycle was 4 to 8 weeks, fortunately, sometimes the two domains are indexed at different times, thus (sort of) indexing the site twice as often. The content of this email has been moved to a WikiLearn page: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/HowYouCanHelp. Randy Kramer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:33:40 -0800 civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: suppose you are typing rm -r /somepath/.somecorruptedconfigdir -f and at the point where you have typed rm -r / The cat jumps up to get your attention and lands a paw on Enter. Here's one I did many years ago on a SunOS box (as root), thinking it would delete only the path/.whatever files/directories: cd somepath rm -rf .* Civileme or anyone else, the next time you have a system that's about to be re-installed anyway, umount everything but the / and /usr partitions and try: rm -rf /root/.* I'm hoping today's rm does not follow ..; but it would be nice to know for sure after all those years since I had to re-install that old Sparc... I've made a note to try this when 8.3/9.0 becomes available; but... :^) Pierre Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
I added a 3rd note to http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/HowYouCanHelp, as follows, to explicitly address the point of information becoming obsolete. The procedure is just one possibility, it is not cast in concrete. quote 3. As information goes out of date, and new information applies to new releases, I plan to preserve some old pages and implement a naming convention to identify old and new information. One possible scenario: A question answered about kde 3.0 might be answered on a page named ToastingRyeBreadWithKde. When kde 3.1 comes out, we might copy that entire page to a page named ToastingRyeBreadWithKde30, and add a note to the ToastingRyeBreadWithKde page saying that the information was developed for kde 3.0 and may need modification for 3.1. As time goes on, the page will (should) get modified appropriately. At the next release of kde, the process is repeated. /quote Randy Kramer Randy Kramer wrote: et wrote: the moving target that a (IMHO) good Linux Distro should be is one of the greatest problems with creating book documentation, I would guess. by the time the reasearch and writting and printing and distribution of the paper goes out, it would be time for the next distro, with a number of improvments that would render the old book about as good as a 1970 phone book for Miami. the stuff flat out changed. It has been my experiance that the best documentation I can find is either refered to on is in this mail list (and the newbie list for installation) and some of the least fricton of any help method. I'm hoping WikiLearn can help address this problem. It's not there yet, by any means, but take a look at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/AboutThesePages. You can help, in any of these ways: * If you have a question, try seeing if it's answered on WikiLearn -- try http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/search/Wikilearn, or just click on search from any WikiLearn page. (Or try a Google search with site:twiki.org or site:twiki.sourceforge.net in the search query.) * If it's not answered (or you don't think it's answered, after at least some attempt at a search), try creating a WikiLearn page with the question on it. Post to expert (newbie, or any other mail list), saying that you have a question about such and such and it's posted at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/name of WikiLearn page. Suggest that people answer the question on that page. * Register to edit WikiLearn at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiRegistration. * Subscribe to get a daily notification of page changes at http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/WebNotify. * If you can answer a question, or help answer a question, edit the page with the question appropriately. * If you are experienced in Linux, Perl, cgi, html, and other good stuff, help me move WikiLearn to it's permanent location on SourceForge. Do a TWiki search on ToDo in page (topic) names, or help me set up utilities and procedures for things like backups and so forth. Notes: 1. Pages can be renamed, so if the initial name for a page is not intuitive / descriptive enough, the page name can be changed. Usually, it is a good idea to recreate the original page, delete all the boilerplate text, and put a note there saying Moved to name of new WikiLearn page. 2. WikiLearn is indexed on Google and similar web search engines. On Google, WikiLearn is indexed under two different domains, twiki.org and twiki.sourceforge.net. Last time I checked, the update cycle was 4 to 8 weeks, fortunately, sometimes the two domains are indexed at different times, thus (sort of) indexing the site twice as often. The content of this email has been moved to a WikiLearn page: http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Wikilearn/HowYouCanHelp. Randy Kramer --- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 01:18, James wrote: insert the rest of his mind-numbing parititons here I'm with LX. Jesus is not quite the statement I'd reach for tho, thats too much of an understatement! 3 points. 1. No answer on the 3com thing yet. 2. What's LX That I can answer. ;) LX happens to be my initials. I put them out there so nobody has to learn how to spell my name. ;) Faster for everyone to type, too. 3. I was at a lab the other day for a business meeting. The have just under one PETAbyte of data in their Database server alone. -- Femme That's understandable for businesses, but was all that drive capacity the property of Peter Ruskin personally? Maybe I misunderstood and he was emailing from work or something. Just curious. Best Regards, LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 01:23, James wrote: In general I couldn't agree more. But when you are moving into the less than common world of File System changes, Serving Gigs of Data, Disconnected Users etc. Books do come in handy. The exact feature may change but the theory and general application don't. That is what I spend 50 a pop on. (And God and my wife both know that I wouldn't have gotten anywhere without Using Unix 1st edition I bought years ago.) James How about Tricks of the Unix Masters? Russell G. Sage, Circa 1987. That was my first one. ;) LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On Tuesday 18 Jun 2002 17:34, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 01:18, James wrote: insert the rest of his mind-numbing parititons here I'm with LX. Jesus is not quite the statement I'd reach for tho, thats too much of an understatement! 3 points. 1. No answer on the 3com thing yet. 2. What's LX That I can answer. ;) LX happens to be my initials. I put them out there so nobody has to learn how to spell my name. ;) Faster for everyone to type, too. 3. I was at a lab the other day for a business meeting. The have just under one PETAbyte of data in their Database server alone. -- Femme That's understandable for businesses, but was all that drive capacity the property of Peter Ruskin personally? Maybe I misunderstood and he was emailing from work or something. Just curious. Too old to work - I'm as good as retired now (bus pass from December). Best Regards, LX -- Mandrake Linux release 8.2 (Bluebird) for i586 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1600+ 512MB Kernel: 2.4.18-6mdk-pnr-win4lin KDE: 3.0.1 Qt: 3.0.4 up 17 hours 20 minutes. ~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
Bill Davidson wrote: On Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:10:16 +0300 Chavdar Videff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, There is something I would like to ask - when I configure my GUI I use the Mandrake Control Center - Hardware - Display. Everything is fine - my graphics adapter is recognized correctly, the colour depth is selected properly, however I did not see an option to change the refresh rate of the monitor - and it is annoying for it uses adapter default which is 60 Hz. I doubt in the functionality of the Xfree86config tool where there is an option for refresh rate properties. How can I set up my monitor refresh rate and is there a way as easy as the one windows provides (it was an issue a friend of mine pointed out when I tried to convince him that Mandrake linux is the best and he should forget all about M$). BTW I am using Mandrake 8.1 Thanks in advance. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It may not sound easy, but you could edit /etc/XF86Config-4 manually. The file is commented well and the relevent lines are easy to find. Other than that, I was going to suggest the 'xf86config' command, but since you don't seem to like it... Bill Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Sheesh Unless you have one of those that gets skipped, just test the configuration and let it fail by not answering in 10 seconds, then the monitor refresh opens up to you. If you have one of those that skips the test, then open a terminal window, su to root and # XFdrake --expert --noauto Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [expert] pros and cons of mandrake
On June 18, 2002 12:33 am, civileme wrote: I don't know about you, but 98% of the time my computer has a problem, the problem has its hands on my keyboard, That is a well known and ubiquitous phenomenon. Formally, it is called a PEBKAC (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair). g -- Cheers, Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
