date:20050724

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?

2005-07-24 Thread Ingegerd

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > snip
> > 
> > > 
> > > I actually visited the site and downloaded the book.
> > >  I then did a 
> > > word search on "levitate" and nine references to it
> > > came up.
> > > 
> > > After a cursory reading of several of the
> > > testimonials, I have 
> > > concluded that you were the victim of a cult, Unc,
> > > and that you were 
> > > both brainwashed and hypnotized.
> > > 
> > > You did NOT witness actual levitation.  You
> > > witnessed a delusion of 
> > > levitation.
> > 
> > Okay. You are of this opinion. I don't understand all
> > this anger towards Unc.
> 
> 
> Let him say: "I witnessed what appeared to me to be levitation", 
> not 'I witnessed REAL levitation'.
> 
> I don't like being bullshitted.

He experienced that the levitation was real - why not just accept 
that?
Ingegerd> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > You aren't interested in what really happened,
> > > only in
> > > > what you want to believe happened.  So believe
> > > that.
> > > > Believe what you want.  Whatever you believe, it
> > > doesn't
> > > > affect me in any way.
> > > > 
> > > > Look for proof on your own time.  I am content
> > > with my
> > > > personal experience.
> > > > 
> > > > Unc
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "shempmcgurk" 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > > "shempmcgurk" 
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Unc, I am going to snip out what I believe
> > > to be the 
> > > irrelevant 
> > > > > > > parts of your response and leave in the
> > > parts I want to 
> > > address.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Did you experience it only once?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Nope.  Many times.  As did most of the
> > > other students who 
> > > > > > > > studied with the guy.  I will also
> > > emphasise, for the 
> > > record, 
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > word "most."  Some people (10-15) never
> > > saw anything;
> > > > > > > > others (1000s over the years, sometimes
> > > 500 at once) saw
> > > > > > > > this stuff all the time.  Therefore, it
> > > would appear to be 
> > > a 
> > > > > > > > phenomenon that is not entirely physical,
> > > and takes place
> > > > > > > > at least to some extent on subtle physical
> > > levels.  If 
> > > you're
> > > > > > > > asking whether it was ever recorded on
> > > film, I don't think
> > > > > > > > so, and I don't know whether it could have
> > > been.  But it 
> > > was
> > > > > > > > neat to witness, both as a phenomenon and
> > > as a field of
> > > > > > > > energy to be part of.  The latter was the
> > > real benefit of 
> > > > > > > > being around someone who is doing this,
> > > IMO.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [snip]
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Because some people saw this phenomenon
> > > and others
> > > > > > > > in the same room did not, I have my doubts
> > > that it would
> > > > > > > > have been captured on videotape.
> > > > > > > >  
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [snip]
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I will also admit, for the same reasons,
> > > that there might 
> > > have
> > > > > > > > been some kind of psychic siddhi going on,
> > > in which 
> > > people's
> > > > > > > > perceptions were altered to allow them to
> > > see a phenomenon
> > > > > > > > that might not have been present on a
> > > physical level.  But 
> > > > > > > > there was never any suggestion of what was
> > > about to happen.
> > > > > > > > The most he'd ever say was, "Watch."  He
> > > never said *what*
> > > > > > > > to watch for, and levitation was only one
> > > of the siddhis 
> > > he was
> > > > > > > > good at, so there was no telling what, if
> > > anything, was 
> > > going
> > > > > > > > to happen.  And yet most of us saw stuff,
> > > and everyone who 
> > > > > > > > saw it agreed on what was seen.  
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > [snip]
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Now, Unc, let me contrast what you said
> > > above with what you 
> > > > > > > originally wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > "I've witnessed real, hanging-ten-in-mid-air
> > > levitation."
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I think you would agree with me when I
> > > conclude that you 
> > > have 
> > > > > NOT 
> > > > > > > witnessed "real, hinging-ten-in-mid-air
> > > levitation" as you 
> > > first 
> > > > > > > claimed.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > No, I have.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > No, you didn't.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If you HAD, you wouldn't leave open the
> > > possibility that it may 
> > > have

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?

2005-07-24 Thread TurquoiseB

> > > Okay. You are of this opinion. I don't understand all
> > > this ang> > 
> > 
> > Let him say: "I witnessed what appeared to me to be levitation", 
> > not 'I witnessed REAL levitation'.
> > 
> > I don't like being bullshitted.
> 
> He experienced that the levitation was real - why not just accept 
> that?

The levitation I and thousands of other people witnessed
*was* real.  We saw it.  We felt it.

Shemp's upset because our experience doesn't match 
his fantasy of what such an experience "should" be like,

For those with more open minds, here's the deal.  What
I experienced was obviously (because not everyone 
saw it) a phenomenon that has at least a partially subjec-
tive aspect to it.  However, *enough* people saw it -- many
of them people off the street with no expectations and no
prior suggestion having been made about what they might
or might not see -- to indicate that something was going on.

There *might* be levitation that extends to the physical 
plane, and which could be recorded by videocameras and
measured by instruments.  I don't know.  I do know what I
experienced, and it was pretty neat.  

I *also* understand the factors that lead some people to
dump on such experiences when they are reported.  Some
of it is rigidity (fear that the world might not actually work the
way they imagine it to).  Some of it is self importance or
group self importance ("If it didn't happen in a TM context
it can't be real").  Some of it in this case is past indoctrination
from a.m.t., where the game is and has been for years for a 
few people to demonize and attempt to discredit the people 
they don't like.

The thing is, this reaction or a similar one would've come
up on ANY forum in which I posted my honest experiences.

The larger question is what someone who HAS experienced
stuff like this should do.  Shemp's advice is that I should lie,
or lay low, and never mention anything about it.  Sorry, but
I don't feel the need to do that, just because someone gets
their rigidity buttons pushed by hearing something that doesn't
jibe with his preconceptions.

Thanks to those of you who could read what I actually wrote,
and react to it, with some semblance of openness.  I wasn't
looking for belief...I've been living with these experiences far
too long to expect that.  But it was pleasant to encounter a
reaction that was more along the lines of, "That's interesting.
I don't necessarily believe it or not believe it, but it's interesting."
That's real progress on Internet forums in my opinion.

Unc







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[FairfieldLife] some insights

2005-07-24 Thread sparaig

Missed a meeting with the new TM teacher here in Tucson, but learned an 
interesting aspect of this whole revival thing...

It may or may not have been the original intent, but the storefront 
centers are meant to be revenue generators, not so much by teaching TM, 
but by performing panchikarma, selling MAK and other ayurveda products, 
and, I assume, the new organic line of clothing.

This could actually work, IMHO. It would make the storefronts the local 
support system for the TM centers, regardless of how many or how few 
new TM initiations they might perform.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: FF Guru Purnima 2005

2005-07-24 Thread dhamiltony2k5

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This morning I chatted with a TM teacher who 
> > attended the Guru Purnima events in Antrim, 
> > New Hampshire, USA, which was to be the 
> > meeting place for New England 'rus.
> 
> snip
> 
> > I don't suppose anything like that happened in
> > Fairfield?
>

Well, yes similar things but different. 

There were several things going on for Guru Purnima related to
Fairfield.  One is that the airports were crammed with Fairfield
people on their way to Guru Purnimas elsewhere.  Ammachi people to the
East coast, Karunamayi people to West coast.  Art of living people,
ChalandaMa people and then some people from here to Holland hoping for
a last chance to see MMY.

The Town became pretty empty and the coffee shops quieter than usual.  

The TM.org in FF put on two Guru Purnima shows, one in the dome that
you needed valid badges for 

 "If you need to register for your Dome badge sticker for the
Guru Purnima celebration, please note that the Department for the
Development of Consciousness (DEVCO) will ONLY be open Monday (today)
and Wednesday from 1:30 - 3:30 pm, so please plan to get your badges
early in order to attend the celebration. 

You will NOT be able to get badges will on Thursday, July 21, Guru
Purnima. These reduced hours are due to the staffing shortage at DEVCO."

The other TM.org was up in Vedic City which was omewhat more open in tone.

The Ammachi & Karunamayi people had a nice evenings in FF too and
there were quiet private gatherings also.  Really nice moon rising
that eve. 

(I hear that the people who went to Holland for Guru Purnima got to
listen to Bevan and did not met with MMY?)

-Doug

>--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was quite a bit like that in Fairfield.
> 
> There was an outdoor program by the Ladies' Dome, and an outdoor
program in a field 
> just off Juniper Ave in Vedic City. I attended the one in VC; no one
challenged my right to 
> be there or gave me any crap whatsoever.
> 
> There was no shouting of the welcome, otherwise it was pretty much
as you described, 
> with cake afterwards.
> 
> There WAS quite a bit of laughing in program, however.
> 
> It was really quite sweet, out there in the country, and as you say,
fun.
> 
> My first group program with the official people since 1994.
> 
> L B S

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[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?

2005-07-24 Thread Jeff Fischer

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> For those with more open minds, here's the deal.  What
> I experienced was obviously (because not everyone 
> saw it) a phenomenon that has at least a partially subjec-
> tive aspect to it.  However, *enough* people saw it -- many
> of them people off the street with no expectations and no
> prior suggestion having been made about what they might
> or might not see -- to indicate that something was going on.

Reminds me of those imbedded pictures.  It's right there but drives 
somebody crazy when you "see it" and he can't.

> Thanks to those of you who could read what I actually wrote,
> and react to it, with some semblance of openness.  I wasn't
> looking for belief...I've been living with these experiences far
> too long to expect that.  But it was pleasant to encounter a
> reaction that was more along the lines of, "That's interesting.
> I don't necessarily believe it or not believe it, but it's 
interesting."
> That's real progress on Internet forums in my opinion.
> 
> Unc

Reality is what we agree on.  *New* realities meet with lots of 
resistance because they shatter boundaries and stable ideas.  People 
feel confused without stable ideas, so don't like to see them 
challenged or obliterated.  

I see where the current "reality agreement" has gotten us.  I say 
let's crack some of those "realities."  I'm glad you shared.

Jeff




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[FairfieldLife] Re: some insights

2005-07-24 Thread Patrick Gillam

Lawson wrote:
> the storefront centers are meant to be revenue generators

>From what I've seen of the world of business, 
"revenue generators" are high-margin or high-
volume items such as food service contracts in 
Iraq or convenience store staples such as soft 
drinks, beer, pornography and cigarettes. Spa 
services, which is what these centers are selling, 
are not among those things I'd call revenue generators.

I suspect that spas require exotic locations to work, 
so that the spa becomes a vacation. I was involved 
in the marketing of an alternative and complementary 
health care facility in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, 
that the manager envisioned to be a spa, but it was a 
huge disappointment. It was beautiful place with a host 
of great services offered under the imprimature of a 
respected hospital, yet sales fell far short of projections.

Anyway, my jadedness in matters of marketing 
should not stop Maharishi and the remaining 
believers to try this last fling. Counterintuitive 
actions work sometimes.

 - Patrick Gillam

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Missed a meeting with the new TM teacher here in Tucson, but learned an 
> interesting aspect of this whole revival thing...
> 
> It may or may not have been the original intent, but the storefront 
> centers are meant to be revenue generators, not so much by teaching TM, 
> but by performing panchikarma, selling MAK and other ayurveda products, 
> and, I assume, the new organic line of clothing.
> 
> This could actually work, IMHO. It would make the storefronts the local 
> support system for the TM centers, regardless of how many or how few 
> new TM initiations they might perform.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: a.m.t. spillover

2005-07-24 Thread Llundrub






 
- Original Message - 
From: Rory Goff 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 8:14 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: a.m.t. spillover
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]...> 
wrote:> I second that. I am leaving this group because there is 
so much > stupid threads going on and on and on about nothing.> 
Get a fvcking job guys. Go help old ladies, travel the world. Get a > 
life.Have a good one and a great one, Offworld -- thanks for hanging 
with us :-)Honestly, I don't know who he thinks he is?!





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: a.m.t. spillover

2005-07-24 Thread Llundrub





I dunno, I don't feel my behavior is 
somehowconstrained by people who know me, such thatI'd feel free to 
behave differently with folkswho don't.  Maybe when I was younger that 
wasmore the case.  The older I get, the more I'minclined to just 
speak my mind no matter who'slistening.The older you are, the more 
people you've metand dealt with, and the less influence any onegroup of 
people has over you, or so I find tobe the case.-And 
probably the more you realize people do whatever the fuck they want regardless 
of what you say, so speaking the mind is even more probable. I'm worried about 
myself when I get old. I think I'll go into silence. 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?

2005-07-24 Thread Llundrub





> for his big stage effects, but the man's real 
genius was with> his close-up magic.  I was two feet in front of 
him, able to> move around and look at his hands from any angle I 
chose,> and I still couldn't figure out how he did it.In Colo. I 
used to watch "Doc" do his bar majic in Snowmass.  After a while I 
would just look at his "other" hand. That's where the trick was.  It 
was right in front of you. Simple misdirection.  This is a lesson I 
have enjoyedly applied to life. Look for the background or the less 
obvious.  That's were the action is taking place.lurk 
So is that like reverse Occam's razor?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Welcome Sat Yuga

2005-07-24 Thread Patrick Gillam

Hey, I have a question about Sat Yuga for Bob 
Brigante or someone else who keeps up with 
Maharishi's thinking.

I thought the dawning of Sat Yuga depended 
on a critical mass of meditators or sidhas or 
pundits or something. As far as I know, we 
haven't maintained any of these metrics at 
threshold levels for any length of time. Yet 
here, Maharishi says, is Sat Yuga. How'd it 
happen? Does he ascribe this achievement to 
anything? Were those thresholds more for a 
smooth transition than for ensuring the 
transition happened in the first place?

Thanks in advance.

 - Patrick Gillam






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Levitation/has anyone heard of anyone reaching 2nd stage flying?

2005-07-24 Thread Llundrub

> I still say something good could come about from you examining
this aversion you have to Rama, other than "I know people that got side
tracked following this guy" lurkIn what way? It's sort of to late now to examine him isn't it?
Fact is, I just don't care for the pundits, especially when they act like
they're making it up. Those who do the best in this way are those pundits, like
Chopra, who then go to the most out of touch populous where they become big
fish. A person who has studied the true masters sees not a big fish but a
big fish-eating shark.
I have this personal thing about originality. I love
originality.
Especially when it comes to things Eastern. I resent
people who dummy the information, garble it, confuse it, repackage it, add
colored chips to the flames for the spectators, commerciallize it in the sense
of commercials instead of real programming, or who merely sell it. It's
too precious to me in its original form. Real eastern knowledge can be so
simple as to be like water, abundant, limpid, clear. Resellable only in
Los Angeles. When living by the very stream, only fools still drink Evian, and
only morons drink Sam's Distilled Water with Flavor Enhancing Minerals.

But please do tell what I would get from studying
Rama. You do know I have seen him a few times when I was a kid. As well as
Pat Collins.

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