[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > Am I the only one who, upon reading the brief, felt that > > much of what was written represented to a very great > > degree how I felt the movement is run? > > I feel the same as you. I have seen some ugly things in > the TMO which is very heartless. The only thing that surprises me is that people are acting shocked. Where's the surprise? It's been like this since Day One of the TM movement. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" wrote: > > > > > > You might not be interested in taking a writing class and > > > learning how to really say what you want to say in a very > > > precise way, maybe that wouldn't suit your style, but you > > > do seem very chameleonlike in your posts, always kinda sorta > > > changing your pt of view. > > > > Thank you. I take that as a sign that I'm doing > > something right. > > A follower of Allister C in this regard? Nope...don't think much of Crowley. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > You may have a point. I was objecting to the use of the > word "tactic," which > > makes it sound insincere and even sinister. > > > > I think the trick is knowing when the technique of "bringing in > the second > > element" is appropriate for the situation, and when something else > is > > required. It's easy to be wise after the event. Since I wasn't in > that classroom, I > > can't condemn Susie Dillbeck. > > > > Also, the item posted has been written by lawyers who smell big > $. A > > jury will hear both sides. > > > > > > Judy brought up a good point -- as you do -- that it will be good to > hear the other side as well. If that other side is a brief filed by > the movement's lawyers, I hope we can get that and post it here, too. > > In the meantime, the way I feel is that the lawyers who smell big > , as you put it, will deserve every cent they get. > > Am I the only one who, upon reading the brief, felt that much of > what was written represented to a very great degree how I felt the > movement is run? I feel the same as you. I have seen some ugly things in the TMO which is very heartless. Ingegerd > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, not using a "tactic" > to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." You always take the most > negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, detached > observer. It is easy to recognize her "tactic", because it is used all over the TMO. "Don't focus on negativity". "Don't handle problems from the relative field - but from the transcendental field" etc. I think Mike can use many of the points in his courtcase in Florida. Ingegerd > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > on 3/14/06 3:30 PM, jyouells2000 at jyouells@ wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > > >> FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > > >> CENTRAL DIVISION > > >> > > >> ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > > >> by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > > >> Plaintiff, > > >> v. > > >> MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > > >> MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > > >> Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 > > >> > > > > > This whole document is worth reading. Certain things jumped out at me, > such > > as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen attack - some > > still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus on a > > Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd element in > mind, > > which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from what they're > > actually experiencing. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'How Does the Intellect to Settle - During TM?'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel > wrote: > > > > I'm wondering what other experiences are.. during meditation and > the question of arriving at the state of 'settled intellect' as was > discussed by Maharishi in the state of Samadhi.. > > As the intellect is the function of the mind to discriminate > between 'this or that'. > > Does the intellect settle by discriminating between a thought > and coming back to the mantra? or > > Does the intellect settle by discriminating between subtler > experiences of the mantra, as it refines, or what? > > Does the intellect cease to discriminate at all, in Samadhi? > > How exactly does the the intellect become more settled, and > then completely settled during TM ? > > > Including this morning's meditation, my experience has regularly > been to think the mantra, which moves my mind towards subtler states > of thought. Thoughts arise, then the mantras is introduced again and > the mind moves towards yet subtler states of thought. Then it > reaches a state of no thought. And just rests in the fullness of > that; Being. No intellect there. > > Don't know if that is "Samadhi". Don't really care either; Samadhi > appears overrated. Hope that helps. Yeah, Thanks that helps; my interest in this idea of the 'settled intellect' Like another way to understand transcendence. And that it is ok for the intellect to just stop; take a break, so to speak... And how that maybe habituated into the system: Perhaps like less intellect and more Heart, more Being, carried into relative life... Perhaps the intellect takes on a different dimension also, in higher states of consciousness? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
> Are you sure > you weren't over in Livingston Manor? It would have > been easier to hide from > you that MMY was in S. Fallsburg. I was in South Fallsburg. The first time I was at Livingston Manor was not until April 1979, when I went there for the first CAC Phase III. Phase III sounded interesting to the citizens who went on it, but it turned out to be just rounding with what we already had. Do you recall if the course administrators instructed the governors to hide the fact that MMY was there from all the citizens? It looks like they pulled off an amazing hoodwink. --- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 3/13/06 11:30 PM, gullible fool at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > That's when I was there. I took the sidhis in 1977 > > from Aug 12 to Oct 7, with block 3 Sept 9-23, the > same > > time as the governors conference. I can't believe > that > > MMY was there, though, because no one on the > citizens > > side of things ever saw him. If he indeed was at > the > > conference, the staff pulled an amazing hoodwink > on > > the hundred-plus citizen sidhas that were there. > > I know it was 1977, because I was teaching prep > courses that year. I flew to > Newark Airport from Salt Lake City to attend the > conference. I know it was > S. Fallsburg and not Livingston Manor. I know MMY > was there because I was in > his room several times, up on the stage shooting my > mouth off, in the flying > hall with him watching us fly, etc. I visited my > sister in NJ after the > course and flew back to Boise from JFK, with a stop > in Denver. Are you sure > you weren't over in Livingston Manor? It would have > been easier to hide from > you that MMY was in S. Fallsburg. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 6:05 PM, sparaig wrote: > > > But even someportion of some concentrative technique is effortless so > > what is the difference then? MMY has set up a training procedure that > > helps bring people to a state of "letting" better than concentration, > > but if someone using some slight effort in their practice, that's how > > it is. You can't be dilligent about getting rid of effort! And to me, > > assigning a value-judgement to the effortlessness/non- effortlessness > > of their practice, assuming that they follow the instructions, is > > definitely a value-judgement. > > Here's some more evidence of subtle effort for positive support of > the practice of TM (from an old post here). It actually involved your > post. These are classic elements of mindfulness (Rick uses the word > "attentiveness") to prevent laxity, a common, helpful element in > numerous forms of meditation: > > [FairfieldLife] TM & Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantras > Rick Archer > Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:32:08 -0700 > > on 6/25/05 9:49 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >> It would be interesting to hear others experiences in the area of TM > >> and laxity. > > > > Well, aside from the advice given that people who find themselves > sleeping a > > lot during TM > > should sleep more BEFORE TM? > > > > BTW, I go through periods where I sleep a lot during program, and > periods > > where I don't > > seem to sleep much. What is your explanation for that other than > MMY's, that > > the > > condition of my nervous system is different from time to time? > > On the Santa Barbara ATR (winter 71-72) I told M that I fell asleep > in most > of my meditations. He said "Some physical weakness. Try to remove the > cause." > > On my 6 month course (Courcheval, Spring-Fall 1975) M said that he > was going > to try to turn us into yogis in 6 months. Two things he recommended were > cold baths and sitting up without back support in meditation. I think > both > of these, especially the latter, were prescriptions to combat laxity. > (He > also said we were in a race or a contest to see who could purify the > fastest, and to help us he had us fasting and trying all sorts of > healers > brought in from around Europe). > > I think the no effort thing is most relevant to grosser levels of > experience, i.e., new meditators. At subtle levels effort also isn't > appropriate, but attentiveness is. The advanced technique where you > focus on > the heart area is certainly a form of attentiveness. Not in my mind. I also find that > some > gentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes > a big > difference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending. BUt is that important? > > At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, "Be easy to us with gentle > effort." > That's the MAximum effort, WORST-CASE scenario. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I think there is a big confusion of what evolution actually means. > > > Here some biological definitions: > > > > > > Evolution: The long-term process through which a population of > > > organisms accumulates genetic changes that enable its members to > > > successfully adapt to environmental conditions and to better exploit > > > food resources. > > > www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEPC/WWC/1994/glossary.html > > > > > > The change in life over time by adaptation, variation, > > > over-reproduction, and differential survival/reproduction, a process > > > referred to by Charles Darwin and Alfred Wallace as natural selection. > > > http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookglossE.html > > > > > > In this sense evolution is not the development to a certain > > > pre-existent goal, but rather the successful adaptaion to a given > > > environment by a certain organism. Thhis is what trial and error and > > > natural selection is all about. This makes the idea of an evolving > > > Creator-God fairly upsurd: How could a Creator adapt to an > > > environment, he has created himself? It is even more absurd if you > > > assume an all-knowing God going through trial and error. Pretty much > > > trial and error can be done by machines, and doesn't require a creator > > > at all. That is why evolution, the theory of natural selection is so > > > much opposed by the creationists. > > > > > > Now one can of course try to transfer the idea of evolution to a sort > > > of teleological argument, and that is what many New Agers do. There is > > > a goal, a pre-existent ideal to which nature develops. But if God > > > himself develops, who established the ideal, was it already there or > > > did he create it? And if he created the ideal, why didn't s/he create > > > the ideal creation right away? > > > > > > I think one gets into a big muddle if one tries to combine > > > evolutionary theories which really don't need any God (like trial and > > > error) with creationist ideas. Why should a God evolve, unless he has > > > fallen, and is now involved in his own creation? Of course one could > > > argue, we are all God, and we are all evolving to finally realize this > > > potential of ours. > > > > > > Otherwise its a really absurd idea, with the sort of populistic > > > appeal, the same as that we are all co-creators. It just makes some > > > people feel more important. > > > +++ Haven't you observed that you do some creating yourself? N. > > For me rather anticipation in creation. > +++ Thru your choices, you have created yourself. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
On Mar 14, 2006, at 6:05 PM, sparaig wrote:But even someportion of some concentrative technique is effortless so what is the difference then? MMY has set up a training procedure that helps bring people to a state of "letting" better than concentration, but if someone using some slight effort in their practice, that's how it is. You can't be dilligent about getting rid of effort! And to me, assigning a value-judgement to the effortlessness/non-effortlessness of their practice, assuming that they follow the instructions, is definitely a value-judgement.Here's some more evidence of subtle effort for positive support of the practice of TM (from an old post here). It actually involved your post. These are classic elements of mindfulness (Rick uses the word "attentiveness") to prevent laxity, a common, helpful element in numerous forms of meditation:[FairfieldLife] TM & Laxity, was: For Vaj Re:Pitta-aggravating mantrasRick ArcherSat, 25 Jun 2005 09:32:08 -0700on 6/25/05 9:49 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>> >> It would be interesting to hear others experiences in the area of TM>> and laxity.> > Well, aside from the advice given that people who find themselves sleeping a> lot during TM > should sleep more BEFORE TM?> > BTW, I go through periods where I sleep a lot during program, and periods> where I don't > seem to sleep much. What is your explanation for that other than MMY's, that> the > condition of my nervous system is different from time to time?On the Santa Barbara ATR (winter 71-72) I told M that I fell asleep in mostof my meditations. He said "Some physical weakness. Try to remove thecause."On my 6 month course (Courcheval, Spring-Fall 1975) M said that he was goingto try to turn us into yogis in 6 months. Two things he recommended werecold baths and sitting up without back support in meditation. I think bothof these, especially the latter, were prescriptions to combat laxity. (Healso said we were in a race or a contest to see who could purify thefastest, and to help us he had us fasting and trying all sorts of healersbrought in from around Europe).I think the no effort thing is most relevant to grosser levels ofexperience, i.e., new meditators. At subtle levels effort also isn'tappropriate, but attentiveness is. The advanced technique where you focus onthe heart area is certainly a form of attentiveness. I also find that somegentle attentiveness vs. allowing the mind to just mess around makes a bigdifference in terms of clarity and frequency of transcending.At Estes Park, M quoted the Vedas as saying, "Be easy to us with gentleeffort." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
On Mar 14, 2006, at 4:30 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > > FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > > CENTRAL DIVISION > > > > ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > > by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > > Plaintiff, > > v. > > MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > > MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > > Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 > > > > Among the many disturbing, sad and negligent things presented here, > (if it's accurate) almost as an aside. I wonder if it may have > repercusions in Federal law and the real reason it's in the complaint. > > > "(i) That democracy is a "cruel" form of government. > The University's website boasts that it has received "more than $32 > million in federal and other grants." Defendants are exempt from > paying federal taxes" > > > I knew this would come back around... There's probably more things than we can imagine. Remember the guy from Saudi Arabia a while back who was trying to get into this country using the MUM computer program to get here? I wonder how many have got in that way who had mal-intent? "Lay in wait for the infidel" and all that...? Bizarre. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
on 3/14/06 5:39 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I can't imagine why they even thought it ok to put him on a plane > home the > next day!!! He probably wouldn't have been allowed on a plane in this post-9/11 world. Or even prior to 9/11, if he was that obviously crazy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just a couple of points: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on > > > > > > the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than > > > > > > TM according to some here. > > > > > > > > > > The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more > > > > > effortless than TM, in that there is no specific > > > > > intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on > > > > > anything in particular, nada. > > > > > > > > There is no specific intent during TM, either (much > > > > less instruction to focus on anything in particular). > > > > > > Well, there's almost a specific intent inherent in the > instructions > > > (else, why call them "instructions?") > > > > There's a case to be made that they *aren't* > > instructions, actually... > > > > In any case, I would contend that after a certain > > amount of practice, you aren't doing anything that > > could be called "following instructions." Vaj calls > > it "conditioning," and that may be an appropriate > > term. In which case, there's intent only to the > > point where you sit down and close the eyes, then > > the conditioning takes over. > > If its really conditioning, than its no longer innocent. While the > practice of TM brings about changes in the structure of the brain, > I don't think that it involves conditioning inthe usual sense. No, I don't either. I can't think of a better term offhand, though. At best, > one becomes confident enough that the practice IS easy to no longer > feel a need to try to make it happen. I could buy that. And once that's the case, it *does* happen--effortlessly. > At worse, you assign a value-judgement to one aspect of TM practice > to another and latch onto it as the "proper" practice. > > Of course, im my experience, both extremes happen all the time. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > > > What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 > > > > percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. > > > > So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only > > > > for a portion of that session. > > > > > > I would say, rather, that as long as you have the understanding > > > that no effort is *required*, that your practice of TM, no matter > > > if 100% effortless, or only 97.3% effortless (or whatever), is > > > still a valid TM session. > > > > This isn't "rather." I would agree: as long as *some* > > percentage of a session is effortless, it's a "valid" > > TM session. By which I mean, any session of which a > > portion is TM (i.e., effortless) is a TM session. > > But even someportion of some concentrative technique is effortless > so what is the difference then? *If* some portion is effortless, then it's de facto TM, whatever it may be called. For the differences, you'd have to determine relative percentages of the sessions that were effortless vs. with effort, plus compare the results over time. > MMY has set up a training procedure that > helps bring people to a state of "letting" better than > concentration, but if someone using some slight effort in their > practice, that's how it is. You can't be dilligent about getting > rid of effort! Right, "diligence" is not what's needed. I'm not criticizing people who are inadvertently using effort. I'm criticizing the view that TM *requires* effort. And to me, assigning a value-judgement to the > effortlessness/non-effortlessness of their practice, assuming that > they follow the instructions, is definitely a value-judgement. Well, yes, assigning a value judgment is definitely assigning a value judgment. I'm not assigning a value judgment, however. That's a different issue. All I'm saying is: *This* is TM (effortless) and *that* is not TM (some effort). > > > Assigning value judgements to your > > > practice isn't the best way to spend your time... > > > > Right. Were you thinking that this is what I do? > > Sure sounds like. Wrongo. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [...] > > > Good points, Bob, but how a reasonable person -- even someone not > trained in the security guard rts -- could "fear for his personal > safety", hear the person placed in his care who just stabbed > someone "rummage in drawers in his kitchen", leave him alone, let > him leave the residence and then mingle with other students is, > simply, beyond the pale. > > Sorry, but Wysong is at fault. Not as much as the administrators > who put Sem in his care and did not call the police but responsible > none-the-less. > > And it's a good thing Wysong is not listed as faculty anymore. He > doesn't deserve to be. > He then went into another room to meditate. Was this portrayal accurate in the first place, or was he so gung-ho Maharishi Effect that he thought he would be protected if he was meditating? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [...] > > They ignored the psychologist's recommendation. Fatal mistake. > > "Dr. Robert Boyer, a clinical psychologist and member of the > University faculty, was contacted. He advised that Shuvender Sem > was dangerous, should be kept off campus, and needed to be evaluated > by a psychiatrist immediately. > University officials decided not to arrange a psychiatric evaluation > of Shuvender Sem" > > JohnY > Since the insurance company is handling things, they many INSIST that bevan go... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm > sorry > > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he > shouldn't > > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > > > > * > > The responsibility was with the decision of MUM administrators not to > involve police or security guards. A lot of people simply do not have > the disposition to be security guards, and presumably Joel Wysong, who > admitted being afraid of Sem when Sem was acting crazy in his house, > was just not capable of handling the situation, so I can't fault him > in the way that I fault MUM mgmt for their indifference to student > welfare. You can't expect some faculty member with no experience in > dealing with the wild and crazy to be able to handle the situation -- > that's why the school had security guards, that's what Fairfield cops > are for -- it was a decision by top administrators at MUM not to > involve any security people that was the problem. > > I don't see Joel Wysong listed as faculty any more: > > http://www.mum.edu/admin/faculty > Good points, Bob, but how a reasonable person -- even someone not trained in the security guard rts -- could "fear for his personal safety", hear the person placed in his care who just stabbed someone "rummage in drawers in his kitchen", leave him alone, let him leave the residence and then mingle with other students is, simply, beyond the pale. Sorry, but Wysong is at fault. Not as much as the administrators who put Sem in his care and did not call the police but responsible none-the-less. And it's a good thing Wysong is not listed as faculty anymore. He doesn't deserve to be. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm > sorry > > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he > shouldn't > > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > > > > * > > The responsibility was with the decision of MUM administrators not to > involve police or security guards. A lot of people simply do not have > the disposition to be security guards, and presumably Joel Wysong, who > admitted being afraid of Sem when Sem was acting crazy in his house, > was just not capable of handling the situation, so I can't fault him > in the way that I fault MUM mgmt for their indifference to student > welfare. You can't expect some faculty member with no experience in > dealing with the wild and crazy to be able to handle the situation -- > that's why the school had security guards, that's what Fairfield cops > are for -- it was a decision by top administrators at MUM not to > involve any security people that was the problem. Yes, or to take Sem to the emergency room of a hospital so he could get proper care and treatment. I can't imagine why they even thought it ok to put him on a plane home the next day!!! Can you imagine how angry his parents must feel? Their son was so obviously sick, and no one took him to a hospital, or had the police evaluate him. SO he was left to act out his craziness and his life is ruined and some poor great kid is dead. I suspect Joel and his administrative peers thought they were being kind in not calling the police,but that is not kindness. What I wonder is who told Joel to watch Sem, alone? My guess is that it was time for everyone to meditate, so Joel was left alone and did not want to ask for help. And why in the world did Joel meditate when his job was to monitor an unstable student? There are times when you have to skip your TM, even if it is not convenient. (I will never forget one couple who locked thier new baby in a room for an hour and a half each mornbign and evening in the late 70's while they did their long "flying" program together. The child screamed and screamed and this went on for months, but they believed TM came first.) > I don't see Joel Wysong listed as faculty any more: Joel is no longer on the faculty. He left over a year ago to become either a raja or one of the recerts who runs an area on the east coast (maybe somewhere in New YOrk state, even perhaps the Livingston manor area) > http://www.mum.edu/admin/faculty > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > wrote: > > > > on 3/14/06 4:05 PM, feste37 at feste37@ wrote: > > > > > For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, > > > > Of course she was. Everyone does. > > > > >not using a > > > "tactic" > > > to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." > > > > That wasn't her intention, but that's often the net effect of the > TMO > > approach to dealing with negativity. > > > > > The road to hell is paved with good intentions. > > Someone was just stabbed and Dillbeck's response is to go on with > the lecture? Talk about sweeping a problem under the rug! > > > > > > > > >You always take the most > > > negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, > detached > > > observer. > > > > What I'm suggesting is that many of the ways we've been taught in > the TMO to > > deal with various situations are actually quite unhealthy and lead > to very > > unnatural, out-of-touch, and in this case, fatal ways of thinking, > feeling, > > and behaving. > > > > Yes, fatal. > > Sadly, the Butler affair was the culmination of and fruits of a > pathology that had become the norm in TMO culture: manipulate the > environment in order to further the goals of the Movement. In this > case, it was: ignore an actual crime because to not do so would be > to suggest that crime can actually occur in a TM environment. To > not do so would mean reporting the crime and unfavorably skewering > crime statistics that would disprove the "Maharishi Effect". > > Not at all the fault of the actual TM Technique but, yes, a fault of > those TMO institutions and those that run them -- from MMY on down -- > for perpetuating those pathologies. > > In addition to representing a valid complaint of the Levi Butler > Estate, I found the brief to be, on the whole, a fair and timely and > MUCH NEEDED critique of the TMO culture. > > It should be widely dissseminated and read by everyone in the > Movement! > They ignored the psychologist's recommendation. Fatal mistake. "Dr. Robert Boyer, a clinical psychologist and member of the University faculty, was contacted. He advised that Shuvender Sem was dangerous, should be kept off campus, and needed to be evaluated by a psychiatrist immediately. University officials decided not to arrange a psychiatric evaluation of Shuvender Sem" JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > > wrote: > > > > > > Which article are you referring to, Shemp? > > > > > > Sal > > > > > > Although they didn't copy and paste from the brief to my posting, > I > > am referring to articles 57-63 > > > > Articles 57-63 are reproduced here (sorry, without the numbering): > > > > Shuvender Sem was placed in the custody of Joel Wysong, the Dean > of > > Men. > > Joel Wysong took Shuvender Sem to Mr. Wysong's apartment on campus. > > At his residence, Joel Wysong observed Shuvender Sem standing in > the > > kitchen, turning in circles, waving his arms, clapping his hands, > > and muttering to himself as he looked toward the ceiling. > > Joel Wysong feared for his personal safety while Shuvender Sem was > > at his residence. > > Joel Wysong left Shuvender Sem in the kitchen while Wysong > retreated > > to another room to meditate. He could hear Sem rummaging in > drawers > > in the kitchen. > > When Joel Wysong finished meditating, he discovered Shuvender Sem > > was missing. Wysong did not speak to Campus Security or notify > > local law enforcement. Instead, he decided to try to find Sem > > himself. > > Joel Wysong checked several locations before finding Shuvender Sem > > at the student dining hall on campus. Rather than remove Sem from > > the dining hall or request assistance from Campus Security or > local > > law enforcement, Wysong decided to allow Sem to mingle with other > > students. Wysong did nothing to protect the students from Sem. > > Instead he sat some distance away from Sem. He did not keep Sem > > under observation. > > > "Wysong feared for his personal safety" and then he left him alone > to go and meditate!! > > Then he heard "Sem rummaging in drawers in the kitchen". > > And he allowed Sem "to mingle with other students". > > Sorry, if all this is true, then Wysong is incredibly negilgent and > responsible...not that this removes liablity from the university > because Wysong is its employee. But, sorry, if true, Wysong is a > total schmuck. A few things don't quite make sense: if Wysong felt he was in personal danger why did he go to another room and meditate (unless he thinks his Maharishi effect of one was sufficient protection or something)? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm > sorry > > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he > shouldn't > > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > > > > TYPO: I meant to write "He acted horribly". > It actually still makes sense: He added horribly [to the mess]. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > The truth usually lies between extremes. At the least, it may force radical changes inhow MUM operates, hopefully for the better. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/14/06 3:30 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > >> > >> IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > >> FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > >> CENTRAL DIVISION > >> > >> ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > >> by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > >> Plaintiff, > >> v. > >> MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > >> MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > >> Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 > >> > > > This whole document is worth reading. Certain things jumped out at me, such > as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen attack - some > still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus on a > Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd element in mind, > which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from what they're > actually experiencing. > Yep, saw that too, but I thought the democracy and grant comment was out of place and put there for possible future litigation. JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
on 3/14/06 5:12 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >You can't expect some faculty member with no experience in > dealing with the wild and crazy to be able to handle the situation -- > that's why the school had security guards, that's what Fairfield cops > are for -- it was a decision by top administrators at MUM not to > involve any security people that was the problem. I wonder how "high up" the decision was made. > > I don't see Joel Wysong listed as faculty any more: > > http://www.mum.edu/admin/faculty I think he's a caretaker at Livingston Manor or something these days. I may be wrong about that but I seeming to remember hearing something of that nature. I'll bet he's glad he got that Ph.D. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" wrote: > > > > You might not be interested in taking a writing class and > > learning how to really say what you want to say in a very > > precise way, maybe that wouldn't suit your style, but you > > do seem very chameleonlike in your posts, always kinda sorta > > changing your pt of view. > > Thank you. I take that as a sign that I'm doing > something right. > A follower of Allister C in this regard? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > It's the same way of thinking, though. The idea that "we" know more > than > > "they" do about what's good for them. If you talk to people on > campus about > > why they are there, you will get almost as many answers as there are > people. > > Everyone has their own reasons. Instead of talking about people > needing to > > be "liberated" and "shaken up," wouldn't it be more mature to simply > honor the > > decision that MUM folks have made about how they want to live and what > > they want to devote themselves to? > > The driving mission of MUM is get everyone else in the world to do the > tm program and no other meditation or guru related activities, tear > down their house and build only according to S-ved, go only to > Maharishi approved doctors, and generally liberate them from their > unenlightened existence. Nope,the driving mission of MUM is to keep everyone in the Domes "on the program" and entice other people to move there and participate as well. The driving mission of many of the *people* (including the administration) may be what you say, but that's not the official goal of MUM. Unfortunately, its hard to separate one goal from the other. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
> IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > CENTRAL DIVISION > > ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > Plaintiff, > v. > MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 *** This is the heart of the complaint against MUM, and the negligence and indifference to student welfare is shocking: *** During the approximately six weeks Shuvender Sem was on the Maharishi University of Management campus, his appearance and behavior became increasingly bizarre and his attitude toward other students became more aggressive, threatening, and belligerent. As one example, Sem threatened to kill a fellow student by bashing the student's head into a sink and then stomping on him while he was on the ground. The change in Shuvender Sem's appearance, behavior, and attitude was observed by his fellow students and either was, or should have been, observed by Defendants. E. The Attacks on March 1, 2004 On Monday, March 1, 2004, Shuvender Sem attended an afternoon class at Maharishi University of Management at which several University staff persons were present. These persons included Samuel Boothby, Chris Jones, and Susan Dillbeck. Susan Dillbeck is a member of the University's Board of Trustees. About a dozen other students were also in attendance. The class had just finished meditating and was watching a video of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, when Shuvender Sem became agitated, stood up, and began making strange gestures. Eventually, he left the room for a few minutes. When he returned, he stood behind a student named John Killian. Suddenly and without provocation, Sem began screaming obscenities and stabbed John Killian in the face and throat with a pen. The classroom attack on John Killian occurred at approximately 2:30 p.m. Fortunately, John Killian was able to deflect the pen slightly with his hand, possibly saving his own life. The pen punctured his hand, chin, and throat, and left a red ink scratch across his throat. A fellow student named Akbar Nazary grabbed Shuvender Sem and stopped the attack. John Killian was taken to a restroom by Maharishi University of Management staff, advised that he probably did not need stitches, given a bandage, and encouraged to return to class. His repeated requests to be taken to someone qualified to determine whether he needed stitches were turned down. John Killian was then asked by University staff to meet with Shuvender Sem so that Sem could apologize. Staff members, who included Chris Jones and Samuel Boothby, represented that the reason Sem had attacked Killian was that Sem had been meditating improperly. Shuvender Sem's "apology," which was prompted by Samuel Boothby, was delivered with a flat expression in a monotone voice, and with no indication of genuine remorse. Samuel Boothby then asked John Killian if he was ready to return to class. Killian could not believe Boothby was serious. John Killian returned to the classroom where he had been attacked to retrieve his books. When he re-entered the room, some of the students were still in shock and some were crying. Rather than attending to the needs of the students, Susan Dillbeck and other Maharishi University of Management staff continued to run the videotape and attempted to act as though nothing had happened. Susan Dillbeck insisted that the students focus their attention on the lecture. Ultimately, John Killian drove himself to a hospital, where he received multiple stitches. When he described how he had been injured and reported the excuse given by Maharishi University of Management staff that Shuvender Sem had simply been meditating improperly, the treating doctor responded, "In the real world, we call that assault and battery, and people go to jail for it." Immediately after the attack, student witnesses advised University Staff that Shuvender Sem had acted in a bizarre and aggressive manner on previous occasions and had demonstrated clear signs of schizophrenia, including a claim that he was being followed by a black cat. Meanwhile, Maharishi University of Management officials, including Executive Vice President Craig Pearson and Dean of Men Joel Wysong, were informed of Shuvender Sem's attack on John Killian. Dr. Robert Boyer, a clinical psychologist and member of the University faculty, was contacted. He advised that Shuvender Sem was dangerous, should be kept off campus, and needed to be evaluated by a psychiatrist immediately. University officials decided not to arrange a psychiatric evaluation of Shuvender Sem. Defendants knew or should have known that Shuvender Sem was a menace to the safety of others and that it was foreseeable he might attack someone else without warning or provocation. In direct violation of the University'
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > The question is, why are you so desperate to "prove" > > > TM isn't effortless? > > > > It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, > authfriend, > > find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he > > vice-versa. It seems to never end. > > It's far from "every single thing" on either of our parts. > > I'm kind of stumped, though, as to how to respond to a > question as to why I find *some* things wrong with what > he says. > > Perhaps this will help: If he stopped being such an > arrogant phony and acquired a measure of respect for > accuracy, I would probably find a lot fewer things > wrong with what he says. > Of course, his reaspons would be something along the lines of "if she stopped being an arrogant phony who *required* accuracy..." Face it: you two have an interesting relationship that likely goes back a long ways, if you accept reincarnation theories... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'How Does the Intellect to Settle - During TM?'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm wondering what other experiences are.. during meditation and the question of arriving at the state of 'settled intellect' as was discussed by Maharishi in the state of Samadhi.. > As the intellect is the function of the mind to discriminate between 'this or that'. > Does the intellect settle by discriminating between a thought and coming back to the mantra? or > Does the intellect settle by discriminating between subtler experiences of the mantra, as it refines, or what? > Does the intellect cease to discriminate at all, in Samadhi? > How exactly does the the intellect become more settled, and then completely settled during TM ? The intellect is a function of mental activity. One could say that it IS mental activity. If all mental activity ceases, then there is no intellect to make discriminations. The latest physiological theory out of MUM is something along the lines that samadhi is the attention-shifting mechanism of the brain. If that mechanism is left active without content, then you have pure awareness without things to discriminate about, so the existence/non- existence/quietness/non-quietness of intellect is moot. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > * The responsibility was with the decision of MUM administrators not to involve police or security guards. A lot of people simply do not have the disposition to be security guards, and presumably Joel Wysong, who admitted being afraid of Sem when Sem was acting crazy in his house, was just not capable of handling the situation, so I can't fault him in the way that I fault MUM mgmt for their indifference to student welfare. You can't expect some faculty member with no experience in dealing with the wild and crazy to be able to handle the situation -- that's why the school had security guards, that's what Fairfield cops are for -- it was a decision by top administrators at MUM not to involve any security people that was the problem. I don't see Joel Wysong listed as faculty any more: http://www.mum.edu/admin/faculty Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > Just a couple of points: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on > > > > > the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than > > > > > TM according to some here. > > > > > > > > The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more > > > > effortless than TM, in that there is no specific > > > > intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on > > > > anything in particular, nada. > > > > > > There is no specific intent during TM, either (much > > > less instruction to focus on anything in particular). > > > > Well, there's almost a specific intent inherent in the instructions > > (else, why call them "instructions?") > > There's a case to be made that they *aren't* > instructions, actually... > > In any case, I would contend that after a certain > amount of practice, you aren't doing anything that > could be called "following instructions." Vaj calls > it "conditioning," and that may be an appropriate > term. In which case, there's intent only to the > point where you sit down and close the eyes, then > the conditioning takes over. > If its really conditioning, than its no longer innocent. While the practice of TM brings about changes in the structure of the brain, I don't think that it involves conditioning inthe usual sense. At best, one becomes confident enough that the practice IS easy to no longer feel a need to try to make it happen. At worse, you assign a value-judgement to one aspect of TM practice to another and latch onto it as the "proper" practice. Of course, im my experience, both extremes happen all the time. > > , but its not something you can > > pin down with strict accuracy. Its a hiesenberg uncertainty > principle > > thang: the more you try to pin it down, the less accurately you > > capture the "intent." > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 > > > percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. > > > So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only > > > for a portion of that session. > > > > I would say, rather, that as long as you have the understanding > > that no effort is *required*, that your practice of TM, no matter > > if 100% effortless, or only 97.3% effortless (or whatever), is > > still a valid TM session. > > This isn't "rather." I would agree: as long as *some* > percentage of a session is effortless, it's a "valid" > TM session. By which I mean, any session of which a > portion is TM (i.e., effortless) is a TM session. But even someportion of some concentrative technique is effortless so what is the difference then? MMY has set up a training procedure that helps bring people to a state of "letting" better than concentration, but if someone using some slight effort in their practice, that's how it is. You can't be dilligent about getting rid of effort! And to me, assigning a value-judgement to the effortlessness/non-effortlessness of their practice, assuming that they follow the instructions, is definitely a value-judgement. > > > Assigning value judgements to your > > practice isn't the best way to spend your time... > > Right. Were you thinking that this is what I do? > Sure sounds like. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The campus itself went stapathya Vedic and now there are like 100 > students occupying a 200 acre campus, 2 acres per student. > > It's a ghost town, soon it will resemble a Hindu Ghost Town, nice > buildings run by skinny, pale people who will eventually simply fade > into the ether they so longingly desire (but what do I know?). > ** There are about 435 students on campus now: http://www.mum.edu/TheReview/05-06/2-8-06.html#2 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You may have a point. I was objecting to the use of the word "tactic," which > makes it sound insincere and even sinister. > > I think the trick is knowing when the technique of "bringing in the second > element" is appropriate for the situation, and when something else is > required. It's easy to be wise after the event. Since I wasn't in that classroom, I > can't condemn Susie Dillbeck. > > Also, the item posted has been written by lawyers who smell big $. A > jury will hear both sides. Judy brought up a good point -- as you do -- that it will be good to hear the other side as well. If that other side is a brief filed by the movement's lawyers, I hope we can get that and post it here, too. In the meantime, the way I feel is that the lawyers who smell big , as you put it, will deserve every cent they get. Am I the only one who, upon reading the brief, felt that much of what was written represented to a very great degree how I felt the movement is run? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > on 3/14/06 4:05 PM, feste37 at feste37@ wrote: > > > > > For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, > > > > Of course she was. Everyone does. > > > > >not using a > > > "tactic" > > > to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." > > > > That wasn't her intention, but that's often the net effect of the TMO > > approach to dealing with negativity. > > > > >You always take the most > > > negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, detached > > > observer. > > > > What I'm suggesting is that many of the ways we've been taught in the TMO > to > > deal with various situations are actually quite unhealthy and lead to very > > unnatural, out-of-touch, and in this case, fatal ways of thinking, feeling, > > and behaving. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] My life is that level where unmanifest prevails...
Where do you get your energy from when you e.g. sleep only 2 hours? MAHARISHI: Nobody knows if I am sleeping even those two hours. People make their stories. This is not significant in my case. Because I am not living in terms of how much I sleep and how much I eat and how much I wake up. This is not my life. My life is that level where unmanifest prevails through all differences in manifestations. So that is alright. It is like the life of everyone, like that, like that. How much one sleeps and how much one is awake and what one eats - what does it mean? It is a waste of time. Global Press Conference, 8.3.06 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
You may have a point. I was objecting to the use of the word "tactic," which makes it sound insincere and even sinister. I think the trick is knowing when the technique of "bringing in the second element" is appropriate for the situation, and when something else is required. It's easy to be wise after the event. Since I wasn't in that classroom, I can't condemn Susie Dillbeck. Also, the item posted has been written by lawyers who smell big $. A jury will hear both sides. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/14/06 4:05 PM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, > > Of course she was. Everyone does. > > >not using a > > "tactic" > > to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." > > That wasn't her intention, but that's often the net effect of the TMO > approach to dealing with negativity. > > >You always take the most > > negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, detached > > observer. > > What I'm suggesting is that many of the ways we've been taught in the TMO to > deal with various situations are actually quite unhealthy and lead to very > unnatural, out-of-touch, and in this case, fatal ways of thinking, feeling, > and behaving. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/14/06 4:05 PM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, > > Of course she was. Everyone does. > > >not using a > > "tactic" > > to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." > > That wasn't her intention, but that's often the net effect of the TMO > approach to dealing with negativity. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Someone was just stabbed and Dillbeck's response is to go on with the lecture? Talk about sweeping a problem under the rug! > > >You always take the most > > negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, detached > > observer. > > What I'm suggesting is that many of the ways we've been taught in the TMO to > deal with various situations are actually quite unhealthy and lead to very > unnatural, out-of-touch, and in this case, fatal ways of thinking, feeling, > and behaving. > Yes, fatal. Sadly, the Butler affair was the culmination of and fruits of a pathology that had become the norm in TMO culture: manipulate the environment in order to further the goals of the Movement. In this case, it was: ignore an actual crime because to not do so would be to suggest that crime can actually occur in a TM environment. To not do so would mean reporting the crime and unfavorably skewering crime statistics that would disprove the "Maharishi Effect". Not at all the fault of the actual TM Technique but, yes, a fault of those TMO institutions and those that run them -- from MMY on down -- for perpetuating those pathologies. In addition to representing a valid complaint of the Levi Butler Estate, I found the brief to be, on the whole, a fair and timely and MUCH NEEDED critique of the TMO culture. It should be widely dissseminated and read by everyone in the Movement! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
on 3/14/06 4:05 PM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, Of course she was. Everyone does. >not using a > "tactic" > to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." That wasn't her intention, but that's often the net effect of the TMO approach to dealing with negativity. >You always take the most > negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, detached > observer. What I'm suggesting is that many of the ways we've been taught in the TMO to deal with various situations are actually quite unhealthy and lead to very unnatural, out-of-touch, and in this case, fatal ways of thinking, feeling, and behaving. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, ...then "her best" really sucked... It's time that someone in a position of authority at MUM -- from MMY on down -- show some responsibility for this thing. > not using a "tactic" > to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." You always take the most > negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, detached > observer. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > on 3/14/06 3:30 PM, jyouells2000 at jyouells@ wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > > >> FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > > >> CENTRAL DIVISION > > >> > > >> ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > > >> by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > > >> Plaintiff, > > >> v. > > >> MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > > >> MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > > >> Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 > > >> > > > > > This whole document is worth reading. Certain things jumped out at me, > such > > as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen attack - some > > still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus on a > > Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd element in > mind, > > which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from what they're > > actually experiencing. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, not using a "tactic" to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." You always take the most negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, detached observer. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/14/06 3:30 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > >> > >> IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > >> FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > >> CENTRAL DIVISION > >> > >> ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > >> by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > >> Plaintiff, > >> v. > >> MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > >> MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > >> Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 > >> > > > This whole document is worth reading. Certain things jumped out at me, such > as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen attack - some > still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus on a > Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd element in mind, > which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from what they're > actually experiencing. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
On Mar 14, 2006, at 3:54 PM, Rick Archer wrote: This whole document is worth reading. Certain things jumped out at me, such as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen attack - some still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus on a Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd element in mind, which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from what they're actually experiencing. I agree. One wonders how much more sane some of the people running MUM were, compared to Sem. It's hard to imagine anything more insane happening at a university than the following: Fortunately, John Killian was able to deflect the pen slightly with his hand, possibly saving his own life. The pen punctured his hand, chin, and throat, and left a red ink scratch across his throat. A fellow student named Akbar Nazary grabbed Shuvender Sem and stopped the attack. John Killian was taken to a restroom by Maharishi University of Management staff, advised that he probably did not need stitches, given a bandage, and encouraged to return to class. His repeated requests to be taken to someone qualified to determine whether he needed stitches were turned down. John Killian was then asked by University staff to meet with Shuvender Sem so that Sem could apologize. Staff members, who included Chris Jones and Samuel Boothby, represented that the reason Sem had attacked Killian was that Sem had been meditating improperly. Shuvender Sem's "apology," which was prompted by Samuel Boothby, was delivered with a flat expression in a monotone voice, and with no indication of genuine remorse. Samuel Boothby then asked John Killian if he was ready to return to class. Killian could not believe Boothby was serious.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/14/06 3:30 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > >> > >> IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > >> FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > >> CENTRAL DIVISION > >> > >> ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > >> by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > >> Plaintiff, > >> v. > >> MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > >> MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > >> Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 > >> > > > This whole document is worth reading. I agree. It's compelling reading...and it certainly opened my eyes up to several things I wasn't aware of previously, such as the Dillbeck incident Rick reproduces below and, as someone else pointed out, the fact that Wysong feared for his own safety yet let Sem mingle with other students AFTER he heard him rummage through his kitchen drawers (gee, I wonder what he was looking for in a kitchen drawer...AFTER he had stabbed someone with a pen). > Certain things jumped out at me, such > as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen attack - some > still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus on a > Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd element in mind, > which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from what they're > actually experiencing. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > > FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > > CENTRAL DIVISION > > > > ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > > by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > > Plaintiff, > > v. > > MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > > MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > > Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 > > > > Among the many disturbing, sad and negligent things presented here, > (if it's accurate) almost as an aside. I wonder if it may have > repercusions in Federal law and the real reason it's in the complaint. > > > "(i) That democracy is a "cruel" form of government. I think the reason the plaintiff's attorney included this comment in the brief is that it just simply makes MMY and MUM look bad by showing that they say silly things. > The University's website boasts that it has received "more than $32 > million in federal and other grants." Defendants are exempt from > paying federal taxes" > > > I knew this would come back around... > > JohnY > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
on 3/14/06 3:30 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT >> FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA >> CENTRAL DIVISION >> >> ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, >> by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, >> Plaintiff, >> v. >> MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and >> MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, >> Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 >> > This whole document is worth reading. Certain things jumped out at me, such as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen attack - some still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus on a Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd element in mind, which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from what they're actually experiencing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT > FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA > CENTRAL DIVISION > > ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER, > by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER, > Plaintiff, > v. > MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and > MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, > Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072 > Among the many disturbing, sad and negligent things presented here, (if it's accurate) almost as an aside. I wonder if it may have repercusions in Federal law and the real reason it's in the complaint. "(i) That democracy is a "cruel" form of government. The University's website boasts that it has received "more than $32 million in federal and other grants." Defendants are exempt from paying federal taxes" I knew this would come back around... JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry > > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't > > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > > Have to agree--he and a quite a few others. > > We do want to hear the other side, though, such > as it may be. > I wonder: before the actual trial takes place (assuming that it does), won't the other side be filing their own brief, kinda an "answer" to this brief? If so, Judy, that may be the opportunity for us to hear "the other side" and I, too, will want to hear it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM > folded is . > > . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take > a look at the > > new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to > > disappoint you all. > > > > whoopdi-do, there is new construction going on. What was wrong with > the old campus? That place was a beehive of activity for years, vital, > fun, great place to meet and greet friends, no matter which way you > turned you had great friends. > > Everything was staphatya-Vedically, ayurvedically incorrect, and yet > the community was vital and thriving. > > Since the advent of Stapathya Veda the place reminds me of a Madame > Blavatsky convention, a bunch of aged dour looking people. > > Every single successful business I can think of went bankrupt AFTER > they built and occupied Stapatya Vedic buidlings. > > The campus itself went stapathya Vedic and now there are like 100 > students occupying a 200 acre campus, 2 acres per student. > > It's a ghost town, soon it will resemble a Hindu Ghost Town, nice > buildings run by skinny, pale people who will eventually simply fade > into the ether they so longingly desire (but what do I know?). When will TMers and, especially, the TBers realize that all this talk about Schtapatya Veda, Yagyas, Vedic Vibration, etc. is all a cosmic joke on the party of MMY. All these things are neither necessary for your evolution nor are they required to any degree (unless, of course, you're an Indian from India and a Hindu and it's part of your culture). In the first 5 minutes of the first step of the 7-step program you're told that TM is neither a religion or a philosophy and that it doesn't require a change in lifestyle. But yet TBers nagged MMY for years to get "the secret knowledge". Well, ya wore him down after 25 years of your nagging and now you have the so-called secret knowledge...all unnecessary claptrap that impedes your evolution, not adds to it. Go back to practising the TM Program and drop off the trappings of the cult you have imposed upon yourself. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" < > > markmeredith@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > > > Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to "liberate" > subject > > > > peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who > > > live at > > > > MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live > there! > > > > > > > > May heaven save us from self-appointed "liberators." > > > > > > Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people > > > at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not > > > only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening > > > actions to keep people in place. > > > > > > Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows > > > someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular > > > type of group think. > > > > > > PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance > > > coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be > > > seriously affected financially by the suit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, > don't you > > > > > >> agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. > > > > > > > > > > Might be good for it. Something more "interesting" may take > over the > > > > > university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual > > > community > > > > > independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might > > > liberate a > > > > > lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - > > > who need to > > > > > step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for > this to > > > > > happen. It would be fine with me if the university got > thousands of > > > > > students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the > > > end of > > > > > Fairfield if it did happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.y
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. Have to agree--he and a quite a few others. We do want to hear the other side, though, such as it may be. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister > wrote: > > > > 0> > I did say in that in the early stages there may be > > > > some very slight effort until the automatic cycle > > > > is established. > > > > > > What if that "automatic cycle" is NEVER established? Does this > mean > > > that someone is doing it "incorrectly?" > > > > > > > I guess many people who for instance see different colours when > they > > hear sounds of different pitches think that everybody has that > > gift. My TM-instructor said, as I recall it, that some people have > > "echo-mantra", and for them TM is especially easy to learn, because > > there certainly is absolutely no effort when they > > are meditating. > > Just for the record, it was some months after I learned > to meditate that it began to be completely effortless. > I'm not sure what "echo-mantra" is, or whether I "have" > it even now, but I seriously doubt I "had" it when I > started. > > Also, to clarify something: To this day, I don't > always have 100 percent effortless meditations all > the way through a meditation session by any means; > and as I've described elsewhere, I had a period of > some months awhile back in which meditation always > had some subtle effort. > > What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 > percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. > So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only > for a portion of that session. > > > That "automatic cycle" might be a slightly different > > thing, but I wouldn't say my meditation is like that. As I've told > > before, I sometimes even pay some attention to the final sound > > of my mantra, because my mother tongue doesn't have that sound > > *at the end of words*, excepting a couple of onomatopoetic words. > > Have you consulted a TM teacher about this? > No, I haven't, but I'm quite sure during my initiation my TM instructor emphasized the importance of the last sound of my mantra, despite the fact that my wild imagination every now and then tends to play games with me and distort my memories... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
I got a good laugh out of this, especially your comment, "Since the advent of Stapathya Veda the place reminds me of a Madame > Blavatsky convention, a bunch of aged dour looking people." Have you been to Annapurna dining hall recently, Anon? I think you might be surprised at what you find there -- that is, if you're not so stuck in your preconceptions that nothing real can register with you. And I can't really believe that you are regretful about the demise of the old Learning Center, which must rank as one of the worst buildings ever constructed. The new student center is going to be terrific. Stick around, you might even like it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM > folded is . > > . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take > a look at the > > new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to > > disappoint you all. > > > > whoopdi-do, there is new construction going on. What was wrong with > the old campus? That place was a beehive of activity for years, vital, > fun, great place to meet and greet friends, no matter which way you > turned you had great friends. > > Everything was staphatya-Vedically, ayurvedically incorrect, and yet > the community was vital and thriving. > > Since the advent of Stapathya Veda the place reminds me of a Madame > Blavatsky convention, a bunch of aged dour looking people. > > Every single successful business I can think of went bankrupt AFTER > they built and occupied Stapatya Vedic buidlings. > > The campus itself went stapathya Vedic and now there are like 100 > students occupying a 200 acre campus, 2 acres per student. > > It's a ghost town, soon it will resemble a Hindu Ghost Town, nice > buildings run by skinny, pale people who will eventually simply fade > into the ether they so longingly desire (but what do I know?). > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" < > > markmeredith@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > > > Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to "liberate" > subject > > > > peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who > > > live at > > > > MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live > there! > > > > > > > > May heaven save us from self-appointed "liberators." > > > > > > Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people > > > at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not > > > only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening > > > actions to keep people in place. > > > > > > Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows > > > someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular > > > type of group think. > > > > > > PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance > > > coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be > > > seriously affected financially by the suit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, > don't you > > > > > >> agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really. > > > > > > > > > > Might be good for it. Something more "interesting" may take > over the > > > > > university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual > > > community > > > > > independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might > > > liberate a > > > > > lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - > > > who need to > > > > > step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for > this to > > > > > happen. It would be fine with me if the university got > thousands of > > > > > students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the > > > end of > > > > > Fairfield if it did happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] New file uploaded to FairfieldLife
Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the FairfieldLife group. File: /TMO -- the Odd Side/Iowa Complaint -- Butler case.doc Uploaded by : rick_archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Description : Iowa complaint filed by Levi Butler's family's lawyer (it's in public domain as it is filed in court). You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/TMO%20--%20the%20Odd%20Side/Iowa%20Complaint%20--%20Butler%20case.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, rick_archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
Thanks. I knew about the rummaging, but not the clapping and waving of hands, or the part about JW fearing for his safety. Quite a revelation. And I agree with your conclusion. Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:20 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Which article are you referring to, Shemp? > > Sal Although they didn't copy and paste from the brief to my posting, I am referring to articles 57-63 Articles 57-63 are reproduced here (sorry, without the numbering): Shuvender Sem was placed in the custody of Joel Wysong, the Dean of Men. Joel Wysong took Shuvender Sem to Mr. Wysong's apartment on campus. At his residence, Joel Wysong observed Shuvender Sem standing in the kitchen, turning in circles, waving his arms, clapping his hands, and muttering to himself as he looked toward the ceiling. Joel Wysong feared for his personal safety while Shuvender Sem was at his residence. Joel Wysong left Shuvender Sem in the kitchen while Wysong retreated to another room to meditate. He could hear Sem rummaging in drawers in the kitchen. When Joel Wysong finished meditating, he discovered Shuvender Sem was missing. Wysong did not speak to Campus Security or notify local law enforcement. Instead, he decided to try to find Sem himself. Joel Wysong checked several locations before finding Shuvender Sem at the student dining hall on campus. Rather than remove Sem from the dining hall or request assistance from Campus Security or local law enforcement, Wysong decided to allow Sem to mingle with other students. Wysong did nothing to protect the students from Sem. Instead he sat some distance away from Sem. He did not keep Sem under observation. > > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry > > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't > > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine > wrote: > > > > Which article are you referring to, Shemp? > > > > Sal > > > Although they didn't copy and paste from the brief to my posting, I > am referring to articles 57-63 > > Articles 57-63 are reproduced here (sorry, without the numbering): > > Shuvender Sem was placed in the custody of Joel Wysong, the Dean of > Men. > Joel Wysong took Shuvender Sem to Mr. Wysong's apartment on campus. > At his residence, Joel Wysong observed Shuvender Sem standing in the > kitchen, turning in circles, waving his arms, clapping his hands, > and muttering to himself as he looked toward the ceiling. > Joel Wysong feared for his personal safety while Shuvender Sem was > at his residence. > Joel Wysong left Shuvender Sem in the kitchen while Wysong retreated > to another room to meditate. He could hear Sem rummaging in drawers > in the kitchen. > When Joel Wysong finished meditating, he discovered Shuvender Sem > was missing. Wysong did not speak to Campus Security or notify > local law enforcement. Instead, he decided to try to find Sem > himself. > Joel Wysong checked several locations before finding Shuvender Sem > at the student dining hall on campus. Rather than remove Sem from > the dining hall or request assistance from Campus Security or local > law enforcement, Wysong decided to allow Sem to mingle with other > students. Wysong did nothing to protect the students from Sem. > Instead he sat some distance away from Sem. He did not keep Sem > under observation. "Wysong feared for his personal safety" and then he left him alone to go and meditate!! Then he heard "Sem rummaging in drawers in the kitchen". And he allowed Sem "to mingle with other students". Sorry, if all this is true, then Wysong is incredibly negilgent and responsible...not that this removes liablity from the university because Wysong is its employee. But, sorry, if true, Wysong is a total schmuck. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm > sorry > > > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he > shouldn't > > > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > > > > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > > > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Which article are you referring to, Shemp? > > Sal Although they didn't copy and paste from the brief to my posting, I am referring to articles 57-63 Articles 57-63 are reproduced here (sorry, without the numbering): Shuvender Sem was placed in the custody of Joel Wysong, the Dean of Men. Joel Wysong took Shuvender Sem to Mr. Wysong's apartment on campus. At his residence, Joel Wysong observed Shuvender Sem standing in the kitchen, turning in circles, waving his arms, clapping his hands, and muttering to himself as he looked toward the ceiling. Joel Wysong feared for his personal safety while Shuvender Sem was at his residence. Joel Wysong left Shuvender Sem in the kitchen while Wysong retreated to another room to meditate. He could hear Sem rummaging in drawers in the kitchen. When Joel Wysong finished meditating, he discovered Shuvender Sem was missing. Wysong did not speak to Campus Security or notify local law enforcement. Instead, he decided to try to find Sem himself. Joel Wysong checked several locations before finding Shuvender Sem at the student dining hall on campus. Rather than remove Sem from the dining hall or request assistance from Campus Security or local law enforcement, Wysong decided to allow Sem to mingle with other students. Wysong did nothing to protect the students from Sem. Instead he sat some distance away from Sem. He did not keep Sem under observation. > > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry > > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't > > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Iowa complaint -- Butler case
And here I thought the original president of the university was George Wallace, which explained why everyone always wore long flowing white robes. Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:06 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: The original president of the University, Dr. Robert Wallace
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
Oops--never mind. On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:06 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA CENTRAL DIVISION On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:15 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote: Which article are you referring to, Shemp? Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly.
[FairfieldLife] What's the difference between Shuvender Sem and Dick Cheney?
Shuvender's facial assault required less stitches. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
Which article are you referring to, Shemp? Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:11 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. > > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY > responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. > TYPO: I meant to write "He acted horribly". Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm sorry but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he shouldn't feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi. If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY responsible and VERY guilty. He added horribly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case
Sorry, it appears the numbers of each article in the brief didn't paste properly, nor did the more readable format. I've emailed Rick the file separately and if he adds it to the files section it may appear in a more palatable version. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It isn't just sloppiness by any means, although that's > certainly a factor. The major problem is his deliberate > disregard for accuracy and penchant for intentional > misrepresentation. > Yah, that is what I meant/included (in my mind) when I used the term *sloppiness.* > Going back to your earlier question, how long would > *you* continue to correct repeated deliberate > misrepresentations of your behavior and beliefs? > Would you eventually just give up and allow the > person to lie about you freely? > Yup, that is exactly what I would do. Have you noticed that Michael Dean Goodman gets criticized for his posts and he, as near as I can recall, has never once reacted. I think (but what do I know!?) it would be a major departure into growth if you were able to stop reacting to Barry. I mean we all know/can predict how every interaction involving you two is going to go. It's tiresome. It's pointless, except to you two. > > You might not be interested in taking a writing class and learning > > how to really say what you want to say in a very precise way, maybe > > that wouldn't suit your style, but you do seem very chameleonlike > > in your posts, always kinda sorta changing your pt of view. > > This last is actually a tactic. The goal is to score > points by dumping on somebody else and/or exalting > himself. The context and content are irrelevant; > whatever position achieves this goal in any given > exchange is the one he'll take, regardless of whether > it conflicts with what he said the day before, or even > the post before (sometimes even the paragraph before, > in the very same post). > > And when called on this, he'll exalt himself as someone > who isn't bound by the petty strictures of consistency > (as the person who called him on it is, natch). > > It's a scam, one he's been running for the ten-plus > years I've known him. > > > > > > > > > > You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well > that > > if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond > > then you, etc. It's a very strange dynamic, one that should cause > us > > all to view the dynamics as if we were looking in a mirror-how would > > we compare to this. I know it's done that for me, caused me to look > at > > just how knee-jerk my reactions are in some of my relationships. > Like > > i will not allow people to be viewed any differently by me, I look > for > > reasons to attack them. > > > > That's how Judy appears to me in your regard and you appear to go > out > > of your way to provide a target. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/14/06 12:04 PM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well that > > if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond > > then you, etc. > > Kinda reminds me of how I used to pick on my little sister. I knew what her > reaction would be. That's what I was trying to provoke! That's what Barry *claims* to be doing. But that's just as fraudulent as practically everything else he says. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Barry > > I've read these groups, starting with amt, going back as near as I > can remember to the mid 90s, I know you two, and Lawson in his own > way, have been at it for a long time. > > What I don't really understand is why you both choose to remain at > it? > > It seems to me (but what do I know) that you would be able to, > perhaps mustering together some self-control hitherto unbeknownst to > yourself(ves) to simply ignore each other. > > I certainly cannot remember Judy ever agreeing with anything you've > said. Oh, we've agreed on a number of occasions. > One thing I have noticed, a real difference between you two, is you > tend to be a lot *sloppier* in how you say things which gives > someone with precision targeting capabilities the opportunity to > hone in and criticize. It isn't just sloppiness by any means, although that's certainly a factor. The major problem is his deliberate disregard for accuracy and penchant for intentional misrepresentation. Going back to your earlier question, how long would *you* continue to correct repeated deliberate misrepresentations of your behavior and beliefs? Would you eventually just give up and allow the person to lie about you freely? > You might not be interested in taking a writing class and learning > how to really say what you want to say in a very precise way, maybe > that wouldn't suit your style, but you do seem very chameleonlike > in your posts, always kinda sorta changing your pt of view. This last is actually a tactic. The goal is to score points by dumping on somebody else and/or exalting himself. The context and content are irrelevant; whatever position achieves this goal in any given exchange is the one he'll take, regardless of whether it conflicts with what he said the day before, or even the post before (sometimes even the paragraph before, in the very same post). And when called on this, he'll exalt himself as someone who isn't bound by the petty strictures of consistency (as the person who called him on it is, natch). It's a scam, one he's been running for the ten-plus years I've known him. > > You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well that > if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond > then you, etc. It's a very strange dynamic, one that should cause us > all to view the dynamics as if we were looking in a mirror-how would > we compare to this. I know it's done that for me, caused me to look at > just how knee-jerk my reactions are in some of my relationships. Like > i will not allow people to be viewed any differently by me, I look for > reasons to attack them. > > That's how Judy appears to me in your regard and you appear to go out > of your way to provide a target. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > The question is, why are you so desperate to "prove" > > > TM isn't effortless? > > > > It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, > > authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing > > Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. > > You should feel what it's like from my side. :-) > She's been cyberstalking me for ten years now, > *admittedly* with some provocation from my side. Need to point out from time to time that Barry's endlessly repeated "cyberstalking" charge is knowingly false. > But let's try a little experiment. I'll say absolutely > *nothing* about Judy for the rest of March, and not > respond to anything she says. alt.m.t regulars can sing along with this tune; it's at least the two-dozenth time Barry has proposed such an "experiment." I believe he's even done it here at least once. As some of you here on FFL may have noticed, Barry doesn't actually mention me all that often; instead he uses various circumlocutions such as "some people" and "There are those here who..." while making it crystal clear who he's referring to. He also often responds to my posts once removed, as it were, in his comments on someone else's response. So even if he *were* able to keep from mentioning me or replying to my posts until the end of March, he'd have no problem finding opportunities to dump on me. The "offer" is, like Barry himself, thoroughly fraudulent. > Let's see how well she can do during that same period. First let's see if she agrees to participate in Barry's bogus "experiment," shall we? Nope, she doesn't. > It's the willpower test of champions :-) > > Will the champion of effortless meditation actually > *have* any willpower, or has the effortlessness made > her mind so lazy she has no control over her own > behavior? Will the champion of concentration meditation > actually have the ability to focus on keeping his word? > Only time will tell, but my bet is that her Jones for > trashing me is so strong that she'll refuse to partici- > pate in the test. If she does, my bet is that she'll > last about as long as Kramer did in the Seinfeld "master > of my domain" contest, and for similar reasons. :-) :-) :-) Amusingly, Barry has *always* crapped out on his previous "experiments." > > Starting right now for moi. If Judy isn't afraid to go > for it, she has one last post in which to respond to > this and dump all her remaining vitriol... > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'How Does the Intellect to Settle - During TM?'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm wondering what other experiences are.. during meditation and the question of arriving at the state of 'settled intellect' as was discussed by Maharishi in the state of Samadhi.. > As the intellect is the function of the mind to discriminate between 'this or that'. > Does the intellect settle by discriminating between a thought and coming back to the mantra? or > Does the intellect settle by discriminating between subtler experiences of the mantra, as it refines, or what? > Does the intellect cease to discriminate at all, in Samadhi? > How exactly does the the intellect become more settled, and then completely settled during TM ? > Including this morning's meditation, my experience has regularly been to think the mantra, which moves my mind towards subtler states of thought. Thoughts arise, then the mantras is introduced again and the mind moves towards yet subtler states of thought. Then it reaches a state of no thought. And just rests in the fullness of that; Being. No intellect there. Don't know if that is "Samadhi". Don't really care either; Samadhi appears overrated. Hope that helps. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM folded is . > . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take a look at the > new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to > disappoint you all. > whoopdi-do, there is new construction going on. What was wrong with the old campus? That place was a beehive of activity for years, vital, fun, great place to meet and greet friends, no matter which way you turned you had great friends. Everything was staphatya-Vedically, ayurvedically incorrect, and yet the community was vital and thriving. Since the advent of Stapathya Veda the place reminds me of a Madame Blavatsky convention, a bunch of aged dour looking people. Every single successful business I can think of went bankrupt AFTER they built and occupied Stapatya Vedic buidlings. The campus itself went stapathya Vedic and now there are like 100 students occupying a 200 acre campus, 2 acres per student. It's a ghost town, soon it will resemble a Hindu Ghost Town, nice buildings run by skinny, pale people who will eventually simply fade into the ether they so longingly desire (but what do I know?). > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" < > markmeredith@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to "liberate" subject > > > peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who > > live at > > > MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! > > > > > > May heaven save us from self-appointed "liberators." > > > > Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people > > at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not > > only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening > > actions to keep people in place. > > > > Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows > > someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular > > type of group think. > > > > PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance > > coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be > > seriously affected financially by the suit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > wrote: > > > > > > > > on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you > > > > >> agree? > > > > > > > > > > Not really. > > > > > > > > Might be good for it. Something more "interesting" may take over the > > > > university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual > > community > > > > independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might > > liberate a > > > > lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - > > who need to > > > > step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to > > > > happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of > > > > students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the > > end of > > > > Fairfield if it did happen. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You might not be interested in taking a writing class and > learning how to really say what you want to say in a very > precise way, maybe that wouldn't suit your style, but you > do seem very chameleonlike in your posts, always kinda sorta > changing your pt of view. Thank you. I take that as a sign that I'm doing something right. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
on 3/14/06 12:04 PM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well that > if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond > then you, etc. Kinda reminds me of how I used to pick on my little sister. I knew what her reaction would be. That's what I was trying to provoke! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It's the same way of thinking, though. The idea that "we" know more than > "they" do about what's good for them. If you talk to people on campus about > why they are there, you will get almost as many answers as there are people. > Everyone has their own reasons. Instead of talking about people needing to > be "liberated" and "shaken up," wouldn't it be more mature to simply honor the > decision that MUM folks have made about how they want to live and what > they want to devote themselves to? The driving mission of MUM is get everyone else in the world to do the tm program and no other meditation or guru related activities, tear down their house and build only according to S-ved, go only to Maharishi approved doctors, and generally liberate them from their unenlightened existence. I was accosted several times in town after I stopped going to the dome by TBs. People like Rick and I don't accost anyone on campus about their lifestyles, and now we can't even express an opinion about a few people. You think you know what's best for everyone in the world. > And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM folded is . > . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take a look at the > new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to > disappoint you all. Orgy of delight?? Even someone's personal opinion that some people on campus might benefit from a change of pace, without any expressed desired to make it so, drives TBs nuts. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" < > markmeredith@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > > > Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to "liberate" subject > > > peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who > > live at > > > MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! > > > > > > May heaven save us from self-appointed "liberators." > > > > Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people > > at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not > > only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening > > actions to keep people in place. > > > > Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows > > someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular > > type of group think. > > > > PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance > > coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be > > seriously affected financially by the suit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > > wrote: > > > > > > > > on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you > > > > >> agree? > > > > > > > > > > Not really. > > > > > > > > Might be good for it. Something more "interesting" may take over the > > > > university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual > > community > > > > independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might > > liberate a > > > > lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - > > who need to > > > > step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to > > > > happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of > > > > students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the > > end of > > > > Fairfield if it did happen. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
on 3/14/06 11:46 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: >>> >>> The question is, why are you so desperate to "prove" >>> TM isn't effortless? >> >> It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, >> authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing >> Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. > > You should feel what it's like from my side. :-) > She's been cyberstalking me for ten years now, > *admittedly* with some provocation from my side. > > But let's try a little experiment. I'll say absolutely > *nothing* about Judy for the rest of March, and not > respond to anything she says. Let's see how well she > can do during that same period. > > It's the willpower test of champions :-) > > Will the champion of effortless meditation actually > *have* any willpower, or has the effortlessness made > her mind so lazy she has no control over her own > behavior? Whoops! You slipped in the next sentence. Or does this test begin with subsequent posts? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
Barry I've read these groups, starting with amt, going back as near as I can remember to the mid 90s, I know you two, and Lawson in his own way, have been at it for a long time. What I don't really understand is why you both choose to remain at it? It seems to me (but what do I know) that you would be able to, perhaps mustering together some self-control hitherto unbeknownst to yourself(ves) to simply ignore each other. I certainly cannot remember Judy ever agreeing with anything you've said. One thing I have noticed, a real difference between you two, is you tend to be a lot *sloppier* in how you say things which gives someone with precision targeting capabilities the opportunity to hone in and criticize. You might not be interested in taking a writing class and learning how to really say what you want to say in a very precise way, maybe that wouldn't suit your style, but you do seem very chameleonlike in your posts, always kinda sorta changing your pt of view. You seem to go out of your way to provoke Judy knowing full well that if you say things a certain way it's going to cause her to respond then you, etc. It's a very strange dynamic, one that should cause us all to view the dynamics as if we were looking in a mirror-how would we compare to this. I know it's done that for me, caused me to look at just how knee-jerk my reactions are in some of my relationships. Like i will not allow people to be viewed any differently by me, I look for reasons to attack them. That's how Judy appears to me in your regard and you appear to go out of your way to provide a target. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > The question is, why are you so desperate to "prove" > > > TM isn't effortless? > > > > It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, > > authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing > > Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. > > You should feel what it's like from my side. :-) > She's been cyberstalking me for ten years now, > *admittedly* with some provocation from my side. > > But let's try a little experiment. I'll say absolutely > *nothing* about Judy for the rest of March, and not > respond to anything she says. Let's see how well she > can do during that same period. > > It's the willpower test of champions :-) > > Will the champion of effortless meditation actually > *have* any willpower, or has the effortlessness made > her mind so lazy she has no control over her own > behavior? Will the champion of concentration meditation > actually have the ability to focus on keeping his word? > Only time will tell, but my bet is that her Jones for > trashing me is so strong that she'll refuse to partici- > pate in the test. If she does, my bet is that she'll > last about as long as Kramer did in the Seinfeld "master > of my domain" contest, and for similar reasons. :-) :-) :-) > > Starting right now for moi. If Judy isn't afraid to go > for it, she has one last post in which to respond to > this and dump all her remaining vitriol... > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Ides of March Attachment Test :-)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > The question is, why are you so desperate to "prove" > > TM isn't effortless? > > It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, > authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing > Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. You should feel what it's like from my side. :-) She's been cyberstalking me for ten years now, *admittedly* with some provocation from my side. But let's try a little experiment. I'll say absolutely *nothing* about Judy for the rest of March, and not respond to anything she says. Let's see how well she can do during that same period. It's the willpower test of champions :-) Will the champion of effortless meditation actually *have* any willpower, or has the effortlessness made her mind so lazy she has no control over her own behavior? Will the champion of concentration meditation actually have the ability to focus on keeping his word? Only time will tell, but my bet is that her Jones for trashing me is so strong that she'll refuse to partici- pate in the test. If she does, my bet is that she'll last about as long as Kramer did in the Seinfeld "master of my domain" contest, and for similar reasons. :-) :-) :-) Starting right now for moi. If Judy isn't afraid to go for it, she has one last post in which to respond to this and dump all her remaining vitriol... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
Sure, it's just great, Feste. When are you moving there? :) Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:23 AM, feste37 wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to "liberate" subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
on 3/14/06 11:31 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Perhaps this will help: If he stopped being such an > arrogant phony and acquired a measure of respect for > accuracy, I would probably find a lot fewer things > wrong with what he says. Byron Katie to the rescue: http://www.thework.com/index.asp Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] White Tantra
Happy Holi! For those of you interested in tantra my teacher sent me the URL to this Indian site which has a lot of good information on tantra including links to other sites and lists of books on the subject: www.whitetantra.net Jai Ma, Bhairitu Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > The question is, why are you so desperate to "prove" > > TM isn't effortless? > > It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, authfriend, > find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he > vice-versa. It seems to never end. It's far from "every single thing" on either of our parts. I'm kind of stumped, though, as to how to respond to a question as to why I find *some* things wrong with what he says. Perhaps this will help: If he stopped being such an arrogant phony and acquired a measure of respect for accuracy, I would probably find a lot fewer things wrong with what he says. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] 'How Does the Intellect to Settle - During TM?'
I'm wondering what other experiences are.. during meditation and the question of arriving at the state of 'settled intellect' as was discussed by Maharishi in the state of Samadhi.. As the intellect is the function of the mind to discriminate between 'this or that'. Does the intellect settle by discriminating between a thought and coming back to the mantra? or Does the intellect settle by discriminating between subtler experiences of the mantra, as it refines, or what? Does the intellect cease to discriminate at all, in Samadhi? How exactly does the the intellect become more settled, and then completely settled during TM ? Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The question is, why are you so desperate to "prove" > TM isn't effortless? It might be asked (in fact I think I'll do that) why you, authfriend, find something wrong with every single thing Turqoise says. And he vice-versa. It seems to never end. > > > She's going to have to find a way > > to characterize anyone who prefers something other > > than TM as a failure. > > Oh? > > > It's the corollary of sticking > > with the only thing you've ever learned as a way > > of convincing yourself you're a success. :-) > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/14/06 10:51 AM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > It's the same way of thinking, though. The idea that "we" know more than > "they" do about what's good for them. If you talk to people on campus about > why they are there, you will get almost as many answers as there are people. > Everyone has their own reasons. Instead of talking about people needing to > be "liberated" and "shaken up," wouldn't it be more mature to simply honor the > decision that MUM folks have made about how they want to live and what > they want to devote themselves to? I'm just speaking from my experience. I was full time in the TMO for 25 years, the last several of them on campus. We were afraid to leave. We didn't know how we would support ourselves. I think many on campus are in this boat. We felt liberated after we left. Maybe others would. Maybe some wouldn't. That's all I was saying. I'd rather see MUM flourish than fail, but I don't think that's going to happen unless some fundamental changes occur. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers > > > feeling panicky because they're realizing they > > > missed the whole point. > > > > Or perhaps, they DID get the point (effortlessness, more > > or less) but believe that some specific *experience* is > > more valid than the process, so they seek techniques and > > programs and lifestyles that promote the experience they > > desire, rather than simply practice TM and live life as > > it unfolds. > > Or, we were just open to learning something new, > which we then found that we liked better than TM. > Not that the new thing *was* or *is* better than > TM, just that we liked it better. > > I think you can accept that, but I somehow doubt > that Judy can. I can certainly accept that you liked something else better than TM. But that, of course, doesn't conflict with what Lawson suggested. Nor is it even germane to the present discussion. The question is, why are you so desperate to "prove" TM isn't effortless? > She's going to have to find a way > to characterize anyone who prefers something other > than TM as a failure. Oh? It's the corollary of sticking > with the only thing you've ever learned as a way > of convincing yourself you're a success. :-) > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
The bulk of the people who have chosen to remain in FF, after pretty much having severed their ties to the MIU/MUM way of life are anything but Plain Folks. Following Lady Saints (not that there's anything wrong with that), doing fire yagyas and the like, and the myriad host of other types of spiritual pursuits in the midst of cornfields and hog farms and soon to be hog factories, is not normal Plain Folks to the normal Plain Folks that have lived there for many generations. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but these alternate groups in FF would fit far better in Seattle or Santa Fe or Woodstock or Madison, WI, etc. I think that there would be no real reason to stay in FF once the university closed down (but what do I know) but many of the people now in FF have been there for 20+ years, have friendships, families, etc. and not enough money to start all over at age 50+. While many have left the control of TM/MIU-MUM, etc. they have continued to use this sense of us-them as a reason/cause celebre for many of the activities of their lives. How many would be able to handle it if, after all these years, this reason evaporated? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they > > > > > lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to > > > > > having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very > > > > > quickly going to have no official TM presence. > > > > > > > > 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of > > > > how the lawsuit goes; > > > > > > Yes, someone has already pointed this out. > > > > > > > 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, > > > > don't you agree? > > > > > > Not really. > > > > So you don't think that MUM has any positive impact on > > the town? > > I don't live there, so I can't say. I'm sure it had a > positive economic impact on the town, but I've also > read here about the university using its clout to ban > meetings of other spiritual groups, to ban people who > attend meetings of other groups from the university > and its meditation halls, and other such garbage. I > doubt that anyone in the town, even if they practice > TM, would miss that sort of intrusive control-freak > behavior if it went away. > > I'm sure there would be an impact. TMers there would > have to learn to live like Just Plain Folks instead > of Ru's. On the other hand, they would *get* to learn > to live like Just Plain Folks instead of Ru's, and I > think that in the long run that would be a good thing. > > But as someone pointed out, the insurance company will > probably take the hit on this one, and the university > will stick around, at least until Maharishi gets a whim > up his butt and decides it shouldn't. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Just a couple of points: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on > > > > the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than > > > > TM according to some here. > > > > > > The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more > > > effortless than TM, in that there is no specific > > > intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on > > > anything in particular, nada. > > > > There is no specific intent during TM, either (much > > less instruction to focus on anything in particular). > > Well, there's almost a specific intent inherent in the instructions > (else, why call them "instructions?") There's a case to be made that they *aren't* instructions, actually... In any case, I would contend that after a certain amount of practice, you aren't doing anything that could be called "following instructions." Vaj calls it "conditioning," and that may be an appropriate term. In which case, there's intent only to the point where you sit down and close the eyes, then the conditioning takes over. , but its not something you can > pin down with strict accuracy. Its a hiesenberg uncertainty principle > thang: the more you try to pin it down, the less accurately you > capture the "intent." > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
It's the same way of thinking, though. The idea that "we" know more than "they" do about what's good for them. If you talk to people on campus about why they are there, you will get almost as many answers as there are people. Everyone has their own reasons. Instead of talking about people needing to be "liberated" and "shaken up," wouldn't it be more mature to simply honor the decision that MUM folks have made about how they want to live and what they want to devote themselves to? And the news for those who would go into an orgy of delight if MUM folded is . . . it ain't gonna happen. For those who live in Fairfield, go take a look at the new construction going on there. MUM is in a growth phase. Sorry to disappoint you all. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" wrote: > > > > Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to "liberate" subject > > peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who > live at > > MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! > > > > May heaven save us from self-appointed "liberators." > > Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people > at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not > only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening > actions to keep people in place. > > Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows > someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular > type of group think. > > PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance > coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be > seriously affected financially by the suit. > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > wrote: > > > > > > on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > >> 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you > > > >> agree? > > > > > > > > Not really. > > > > > > Might be good for it. Something more "interesting" may take over the > > > university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual > community > > > independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might > liberate a > > > lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - > who need to > > > step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to > > > happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of > > > students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the > end of > > > Fairfield if it did happen. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 > > percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. > > So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only > > for a portion of that session. > > I would say, rather, that as long as you have the understanding > that no effort is *required*, that your practice of TM, no matter > if 100% effortless, or only 97.3% effortless (or whatever), is > still a valid TM session. This isn't "rather." I would agree: as long as *some* percentage of a session is effortless, it's a "valid" TM session. By which I mean, any session of which a portion is TM (i.e., effortless) is a TM session. > Assigning value judgements to your > practice isn't the best way to spend your time... Right. Were you thinking that this is what I do? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to "liberate" subject > peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at > MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! > > May heaven save us from self-appointed "liberators." Rick was expressing a thought about what might happen to some people at MUM, not taking any forcable actions to liberate them, which is not only contrary to the B-admin but to MUM which uses various threatening actions to keep people in place. Of course most people at mum enjoy it, though everyone here knows someone who did feel liberated after leaving campus and its particular type of group think. PS - I can't find my earlier post that I hear MUM has insurance coverage to cover lawsuit liabilities and will most likely not be seriously affected financially by the suit. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > >> 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you > > >> agree? > > > > > > Not really. > > > > Might be good for it. Something more "interesting" may take over the > > university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community > > independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a > > lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to > > step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to > > happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of > > students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of > > Fairfield if it did happen. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they > > > > lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to > > > > having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very > > > > quickly going to have no official TM presence. > > > > > > 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of > > > how the lawsuit goes; > > > > Yes, someone has already pointed this out. > > > > > 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, > > > don't you agree? > > > > Not really. > > So you don't think that MUM has any positive impact on > the town? I don't live there, so I can't say. I'm sure it had a positive economic impact on the town, but I've also read here about the university using its clout to ban meetings of other spiritual groups, to ban people who attend meetings of other groups from the university and its meditation halls, and other such garbage. I doubt that anyone in the town, even if they practice TM, would miss that sort of intrusive control-freak behavior if it went away. I'm sure there would be an impact. TMers there would have to learn to live like Just Plain Folks instead of Ru's. On the other hand, they would *get* to learn to live like Just Plain Folks instead of Ru's, and I think that in the long run that would be a good thing. But as someone pointed out, the insurance company will probably take the hit on this one, and the university will stick around, at least until Maharishi gets a whim up his butt and decides it shouldn't. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to "liberate" subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there! May heaven save us from self-appointed "liberators." --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you > >> agree? > > > > Not really. > > Might be good for it. Something more "interesting" may take over the > university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community > independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a > lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to > step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to > happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of > students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of > Fairfield if it did happen. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers > > feeling panicky because they're realizing they > > missed the whole point. > > Or perhaps, they DID get the point (effortlessness, more > or less) but believe that some specific *experience* is > more valid than the process, so they seek techniques and > programs and lifestyles that promote the experience they > desire, rather than simply practice TM and live life as > it unfolds. Or, we were just open to learning something new, which we then found that we liked better than TM. Not that the new thing *was* or *is* better than TM, just that we liked it better. I think you can accept that, but I somehow doubt that Judy can. She's going to have to find a way to characterize anyone who prefers something other than TM as a failure. It's the corollary of sticking with the only thing you've ever learned as a way of convincing yourself you're a success. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you >> agree? > > Not really. Might be good for it. Something more "interesting" may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they > > > lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to > > > having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very > > > quickly going to have no official TM presence. > > > > 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of how the > > lawsuit goes; > > Yes, someone has already pointed this out. > > > 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you > > agree? > > Not really. > So you don't think that MUM has any positive impact on the town? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Just a couple of points: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti > > wrote: > > > > > > I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on > > > the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than > > > TM according to some here. > > > > The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more > > effortless than TM, in that there is no specific > > intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on > > anything in particular, nada. > > There is no specific intent during TM, either (much > less instruction to focus on anything in particular). > > Well, there's almost a specific intent inherent in the instructions (else, why call them "instructions?"), but its not something you can pin down with strict accuracy. Its a hiesenberg uncertainty principle thang: the more you try to pin it down, the less accurately you capture the "intent." > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
[...]
> > People start jumping all over each other, normally-
> > mutually-supportive TBs start arguing with each other
> > over whose meditation is more effortless and thus more
> > superior,
>
> This is apparently Barry's take on my discussion with
> Lawson. Does anybody else think this is an accurate
> characterization?
I missed that. That IS bizarre.
>
> a normally non-TB poster becomes a private
> > dick with a mission from God to "prove" TM the only
> > effortless technique available, and it goes on and
> > on and on for hundreds if not thousands of lines.
> >
> > And all because two simplistic pieces of dogma ("TM is
> > effortless" and "TM is unique") have been repeated so
> > often that some people have come to believe that they're
> > up there with the Word Of God, sacrosanct, never to be
> > questioned or challenged.
>
> Or, they're describing their personal experience with TM,
> which happens to confirm that TM is effortless. (In my
> case, I hadn't the foggiest idea what the referent of
> the term "effortless" was until I'd had the experience.)
Of course, as a friend pointed out to me once, its entirely plausible
that you're going to open your eyes after your next TM session and
go "OMG" I had it wrong all these years and that you will continue to
have such "OMG" episodes for the rest of your life.
>
> Moreover, far from believing that I'm never to be
> questioned or challenged, I *invite* questioning and
> challenge (just as Shemp has invited challenge to the
> "TM is unique" assertion).
>
> It's all pretty funny, actually.
> > Unless, of course, you happen to be one of the ones for
> > whom the Word Of God has been questioned...then it's
> > obviously deadly serious.
> >
> > WHAT DOES IT MATTER whose technique is more effortless,
> > or whether the TM technique is "unique" or not?
>
> Different issue entirely. Maybe it matters that TM
> is effortless and unique, maybe it doesn't. But that
> isn't what we've been discussing.
>
> In this
> > whole brouhaha, it seems to me that sparaig and hyperbolic
> > have the right idea -- if the technique works for them,
> > WHERE'S THE PROBLEM? But others seem to be acting like
> > if they allow even one insignificant point of the TM
> > dogma to be challenged, then the whole teaching and
> > belief system is going to fall apart for them like
> > a house of cards.
>
> Speaking of "hyperbolic"... In fact, *nobody* is
> acting like that in this discussion.
>
> I personally feel this *particular* point is the
> bottom line with regard to TM, and it's just about
> the only one I absolutely insist on. And since it
> isn't a belief but a direct personal experience, it's
> hard to imagine how challenges to it could cause any
> of my belief system to fall apart.
>
> > Weird, if you ask me...
>
> Barry, it's your fantasies that are weird, not the
> reality.
>
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is "absolutely" > > > > > effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. > > > > > If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you > > > > > regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. > > > > > > > > Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few > > > > TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that > > > > the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't > > > > quite true. > > > > > > And it goes deeper than this one example. > > > > Except, of course, that it isn't the case even in > > this one example. > > > > I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers > > feeling panicky because they're realizing they > > missed the whole point. > > Ah, the humility of the TM True Believer. Doncha > just love it? :-) :-) :-) > As opposed to the non-TM TBer. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is "absolutely" > > > > effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. > > > > If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you > > > > regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. > > > > > > Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few > > > TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that > > > the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't > > > quite true. > > > > And it goes deeper than this one example. > > Except, of course, that it isn't the case even in > this one example. > > I'd suggest it's about a couple of former TMers > feeling panicky because they're realizing they > missed the whole point. > Or perhaps, they DID get the point (effortlessness, more or less) but believe that some specific *experience* is more valid than the process, so they seek techniques and programs and lifestyles that promote the experience they desire, rather than simply practice TM and live life as it unfolds. > > > > > > > > > They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' > > > and beating it deader than a dead horse so that > > > they can avoid thinking about what *other* things > > > that were told to them might not be true. > > > > > > In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... > > > > ...and aversion/denial. It's amazing what one little comment can do. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is "absolutely" > > > effortless > > > > btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure > > > > Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the > > > > amount of effort, excellent. > > > > Having exposed the primary goal > > > > > > That ain't the primary goal of TM, actually. > > > > Which is? Is it then a secondary goal? > > Nope. If TM can be said to have a goal--other than the > long-term goal of enlightenment--it's deep rest and the > concomitant release of stress. > That's a reason or some reasons to do it, but not a goal within the practice... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister > wrote: > > > > 0> > I did say in that in the early stages there may be > > > > some very slight effort until the automatic cycle > > > > is established. > > > > > > What if that "automatic cycle" is NEVER established? Does this > mean > > > that someone is doing it "incorrectly?" > > > > > > > I guess many people who for instance see different colours when > they > > hear sounds of different pitches think that everybody has that > > gift. My TM-instructor said, as I recall it, that some people have > > "echo-mantra", and for them TM is especially easy to learn, because > > there certainly is absolutely no effort when they > > are meditating. > > Just for the record, it was some months after I learned > to meditate that it began to be completely effortless. > I'm not sure what "echo-mantra" is, or whether I "have" > it even now, but I seriously doubt I "had" it when I > started. > > Also, to clarify something: To this day, I don't > always have 100 percent effortless meditations all > the way through a meditation session by any means; > and as I've described elsewhere, I had a period of > some months awhile back in which meditation always > had some subtle effort. > > What I'm contending is that only when TM is 100 > percent effortless is one actually practicing TM. > So in a given session, I may be practicing TM only > for a portion of that session. I would say, rather, that as long as you have the understanding that no effort is *required*, that your practice of TM, no matter if 100% effortless, or only 97.3% effortless (or whatever), is still a valid TM session. Assigning value judgements to your practice isn't the best way to spend your time... > > > That "automatic cycle" might be a slightly different > > thing, but I wouldn't say my meditation is like that. As I've told > > before, I sometimes even pay some attention to the final sound > > of my mantra, because my mother tongue doesn't have that sound > > *at the end of words*, excepting a couple of onomatopoetic words. > > Have you consulted a TM teacher about this? > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry" > > wrote: > > > > > > ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is "absolutely" > > > effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. > > > If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you > > > regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. > > > > Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few > > TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that > > the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't > > quite true. > > > > They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness' > > and beating it deader than a dead horse so that > > they can avoid thinking about what *other* things > > that were told to them might not be true. > > > > In other words, it's an exercise in attachment... > > Nope. In other words, Barry lives in a fantasy world. > Of course, as long as one isn't (at least) living 24/7 witnessing, everything one does, even TM, is an "exercise in attachment." TM just has a certain quality of loosening the attachments, at least sometimes (perhaps always, who knows?). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mar 13, 2006, at 11:25 PM, sparaig wrote: > > > > > > Yeah, but as I say, effortlessness in the TM sense > > > > > *can't* be an expectation. You can only expect > > > > > *something*, you can't expect *nothing*. Or to put > > > > > it another way, any expectation of effortlessness > > > > > that you might have wouldn't be effortlessness in the > > > > > TM experiential sense. An expectation is > > > > > intellectual; effortlessness isn't. Apples and > > > > > oranges. > > > > > > > > But you are the one who said that people who don't have YOUR > > > > experience haven't "gotten" TM. That's an expectation, by > > > > definition. > > > > > > An expectation of what? And how would it affect one's > > > practice? > > > > > > > Expectations effect everything we do. If you expect TM to include a > > certain kind of experience than you're practicing that experience. > > It is a form of mindfullnessAs is "remembering" to bring > awareness back to the mantra or even once subconsciously conditioned > "automatic reacquisition" of the mantra impulse--called "patched" > placement and "close' placement in previous examples. > Sure, but my OWN TM practice often varies quite a bit from the previous practice, and even from moment to moment within the same period of practice. Even mindfulness doesn't describe my practice at times where I can become aware that I'm not thinking the mantra and then realize that actually, I probably WAS thinking the mantra while other stuff was being thought as well. My realization that "I'm not thinking the mantra" often brings to mind something so subtle that its only by contrast that I feel even remotely comfortable with calling it "my mantra." At the other end of my experiences, Benson's relaxation response seems easy and spontaneous by comparison. And no doubt, I'll have/have had some other experiences as well. Etc.Etc.etc. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > I'd start saying bye-bye to MUM if I were you. If they > > lose a multi-million-dollar lawsuit in addition to > > having no students, I'd bet that Fairfield is very > > quickly going to have no official TM presence. > > 1) I doubt if they will lose the university regardless of how the > lawsuit goes; Yes, someone has already pointed this out. > 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you > agree? Not really. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just a couple of points: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti > wrote: > > > > I agree. Actually, I was just trying to poke some fun on > > the 'walking meditation' supposedly more effortless than > > TM according to some here. > > The meditation *component* of it is, IMO, more > effortless than TM, in that there is no specific > intent -- no mantra, no instruction to focus on > anything in particular, nada. > . . . What is the "intent" of TM? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
