[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellect/suggested reading
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Anna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yoga Vasistha is very good -- the book is Vasistha's Yoga by Swami Venkatesananda, State university of New York Press. Can order through 21st Century books, (at MUM), or Amazon.com. (don't bother with the abridged version -- just the full version). Read some daily. There is a complete 4 vol. translation into English of the Yoga Vasistha, but it's a very weak and confusing translation. Swami Venkatesananda has done a good translation in his Concise Yoga Vasistha and a longer version he called Yoga Vasistha (although it's still not a complete translation): http://tinyurl.com/6xndt To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellect (refined)
(snip) The intellect is the discriminator, which makes it possible for us to make decisions -- buddhi (intellect) throws light on the mind to make decisions possible (and thank God, it enables Prez Bush to say I am the decider). My experience is different: For me the 'mind' is everything we think- it is like a container of thoughts, feelings, perceptions, instincts, etc. The intellect is that part of the ego the chooses, between this or that- it is an aspect of the mind the runs around like a monkey, choosing and making judgements... The 'light' is to me the soul itself, or the pure energy field, or you and everything...flowing through the mind, and experienced as clearly as the soul has 'realized itself'... So, this whole notion of the intellect becoming exact or producing what Maharishi calls: 'Spontaneous right action', is just the finest aspect of the intellect- The finest aspect of the intellect happens when we can maintain pure awareness, or 'witnessing' to the extent, that: The intellect becomes 'still', at the 'finest level of thought(the bottom of the bubble diagram; And is no longer jumping around(at more superficial levels); Making judgements based on more superficial thoughts of the mind, and perceptions; Rather the intellect becomes attuned to the 'finest level of feeling'... So, in a way, the intellect 'transcends itself', becomes the 'intuitive lively intellect... By 'becoming attuned to pure-awareness', and the sense of 'oneness' or 'knowingness'... Like the right and left hemispheres of the brain align, to produce the linear and spacial aspects into one. The intellect then 'knows', because it is a uniting of the wholeness of the 'mind' So, in essence the perfectly still mind, has a perfectly functioning intellect, which is a more 'still' intellect; And not the one that runs around like the 'monkey intellect'... It's no longer 'trying to be right'. It just is right, aligned with Truth. Ritam is just being able to experience the essence of anything... The siddhi practice to me is the practicing of Ritam... And when one does 'float'... That would be the perfect experience of the Ritam, of that aspect of the siddhis... R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Orono Maine course
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My first week long residence course was in Orono, 74 or 75 or maybe both. Charlie D was very intense but I really enjoyed his lectures. Where is he now, Amherst Mass? Did you give any general lectures Rick? I can't remember if I saw you there. Doug Henning had hitched up to Maine with a hot chick from his first Tonight Show appearance . He performed at the talent show. My initiator was Joe Smith, do you remember Joe and Carol from the early days? Pat (first name?) Duffy from Philly was a good guy back then. Memories. Anyone remember Rob and Lucinda Wallace from those days?? I rememeber Lucinda giving the first intro I went to; Thought she was pretty impressive at the time; Seems like another life-time, in a way... R.G. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: on 9/16/06 9:14 PM, jyouells2000 at jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer groups@ wrote: Back in the early 70¹s, when Nixon was going through the Watergate ordeal, I heard that Maharishi supported him, and was generally in favor of conservative Republican policies. Charlie Donahue hopped on this bandwagon, so being the mindless little lemming that I was, I did so too, and caught plenty of flak for it at the Orono, ME SCI course. Hey - I remember you from Orno, but I don't remember either you or Charlie taken' heat for Nixon :-) I taught the SCI course to a group of about 50 who had taken it previously. They (deservedly) gave me the heat. I was out of my gourd on that course because I had done 5 weeks of really intense rounding in a cabin in N. Carolina with Charlie Donahue, Billy Lazarus, and George Helland and had come down too quickly because the owner of the cabin wanted us out. (Maharishi gave us permission to round on our own because we couldn¹t both attend the ATR and teach the Orono course.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi supports the Republicans (give peace a chance)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back in the early 70¹s, when Nixon was going through the Watergate ordeal, I heard that Maharishi supported him, and was generally in favor of conservative Republican policies. Charlie Donahue hopped on this bandwagon, so being the mindless little lemming that I was, I did so too, and caught plenty of flak for it at the Orono, ME SCI course. Well, Nixon was a pretty shrewd character, and a bit~ paranoid... A Capricorn, like Maharishi Besides, I don't think Maharishi wanted to get on that: 'dirty tricks list', That Nixon had, John Lennon on... Can you imagine, that Nixon really considered John Lennon, to be a political threat to him? Can't imagine Imagine, what Lennon would have thought of Bush, and all the stuff going down now-a-days(Strange days, indeed, Mama...) R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? Certainly not in Europe and by no means in Finland. Here I feel we are too understanding of everything people in the Muslim world do and we don't dare to criticize their values and moral thinking. They are seen as just the poor victims. I don't think they are in the first place victims. I think they are a culture and religion in deep crisis. Something developmental arrest there must be, when big parts of people live in deep poverty in spite of the huge oil riches, and their attitudes and values are on the level people in Europe had in medieval times. I think in 2001 the gross national product of the whole Arab world, when the oil incomes where reduced, was as big as that of Finland's. Finland has 5 million inhabitants. I find that very telltale. In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the core of the problem. Interesting is also his main theme of the speech that Chistianity has helped in the development of reasonable communication, and moral reasoning among the people in Europe. He also says that he appreciates highly science and its achievements. He is only critical about the narrow use of reason and intellect in scientific thinking. Which I think almost all spiritually inclined people can agree about. His courageous quotation was good also in that sense that it made me and many others read his speech, that I found to be fine. I have never before read a speech by a pope, and got very positively surprised. I'm not a Christian. Irmeli To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Am I like Einstein? ; )
I just learned that the composer/performer(?) of the Swedish megahit Boten Anna suffers from Tourette's. Trying to find information about that I found that I most probably suffer from Asperger's syndrome. That might be the reason why TM seems not to be very effective in my case, although it's sufficiently effective for me to continue TMing. For instance, I've rarely experienced any remarkable *physical* relaxation whilst meditating, like my hands becoming warmer, and stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger%27s To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Cool! (Oldies but goldies?)
http://www.cheniere.org/references/maxwell.htm This is just one dramatic example among many, of how the present terribly inadequate model of electrodynamics (used in electrical engineering) inhibits and has long inhibited our scientific progress. That model and the continual use of it is also directly responsible for the deaths of hundred of millions of persons who did not have to die, had a better EM model been available and used. This is just one example of many, of why Myron Evans' work is so important. For the first time, his work will allow the direct modeling (and fitting of the model to experiment) for a large number of scientific areas that are of enormous importance to not only science but to the entire human race. He has already rigorously shown that real EM energy can be extracted from the active vacuum. He has provided the first theoretical basis to allow explaining the source charge problem; where every charge pours out real observable energy continuously in all directions, establishing and maintaining its associated EM fields and potentials. Yet there is no OBSERVABLE energy input to the charge. Hence either one must discard the entire conservation of energy law, or one must explain how the virtual state energy of the vacuum is continuously absorbed, integrated coherently into observable size, and re-emitted in all directions as observable photons. That explanation has now been done, based on the important work of Dr. Evans which does model the input of the virtual state energy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Am I like Einstein? ; )
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just learned that the composer/performer(?) of the Swedish megahit Boten Anna suffers from Tourette's. Trying to find information about that I found that I most probably suffer from Asperger's syndrome. That might be the reason why TM seems not to be very effective in my case, although it's sufficiently effective for me to continue TMing. For instance, I've rarely experienced any remarkable *physical* relaxation whilst meditating, like my hands becoming warmer, and stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger%27s Since the deepest point of rest during TM i s a state where you don't notice *ANYTHING* at all, Iwouldn't worry about not noticing your hands getting warmer... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cool! (Oldies but goldies?)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.cheniere.org/references/maxwell.htm This is just one dramatic example among many, of how the present terribly inadequate model of electrodynamics (used in electrical engineering) inhibits and has long inhibited our scientific progress. That model and the continual use of it is also directly responsible for the deaths of hundred of millions of persons who did not have to die, had a better EM model been available and used. This is just one example of many, of why Myron Evans' work is so important. For the first time, his work will allow the direct modeling (and fitting of the model to experiment) for a large number of scientific areas that are of enormous importance to not only science but to the entire human race. He has already rigorously shown that real EM energy can be extracted from the active vacuum. He has provided the first theoretical basis to allow explaining the source charge problem; where every charge pours out real observable energy continuously in all directions, establishing and maintaining its associated EM fields and potentials. Yet there is no OBSERVABLE energy input to the charge. Hence either one must discard the entire conservation of energy law, or one must explain how the virtual state energy of the vacuum is continuously absorbed, integrated coherently into observable size, and re-emitted in all directions as observable photons. That explanation has now been done, based on the important work of Dr. Evans which does model the input of the virtual state energy. Written by Dr. Evans (he forgot to sign his name apparently)... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. Certainly not in Europe and by no means in Finland. Here I feel we are too understanding of everything people in the Muslim world do and we don't dare to criticize their values and moral thinking. They are seen as just the poor victims. Not a particularly healthy attitude. I don't think they are in the first place victims. I think they are a culture and religion in deep crisis. Something developmental arrest there must be, when big parts of people live in deep poverty in spite of the huge oil riches, and their attitudes and values are on the level people in Europe had in medieval times. Yes, it's pathetic and a huge waste of resources, both material and intellectual. I think in 2001 the gross national product of the whole Arab world, when the oil incomes where reduced, was as big as that of Finland's. Finland has 5 million inhabitants. I find that very telltale. In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the core of the problem. Interesting is also his main theme of the speech that Chistianity has helped in the development of reasonable communication, and moral reasoning among the people in Europe. He also says that he appreciates highly science and its achievements. He is only critical about the narrow use of reason and intellect in scientific thinking. Which I think almost all spiritually inclined people can agree about. His courageous quotation was good also in that sense that it made me and many others read his speech, that I found to be fine. I have never before read a speech by a pope, and got very positively surprised. I'm not a Christian. Now I'm interested in reading it too. Know where I can find it? Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Google Maps Vlodrop
http://tinyurl.com/fehwp To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. To present the deva's advocate position, one could safely say that because in theory America is a democracy, and because in a democracy those who get to run the country and set its policies can do so only because the majority of the population *allows* them to do so (via elections), America's policies towards the Third World *do*, in fact, represent the thinking of the American people. If they cared anything about these people in Third World countries, Americans wouldn't have allowed their leaders to have treated them the way they have, for decades now. But they clearly *didn't* care, and still don't, because they have done nothing to remove the leaders who treat the Arab world the way they do. That's the thing that Europeans see about American Whiners that the whiners themselves don't see. Americans are always whining about how their leaders don't really represent who and what Americans 'really' are. I'm with Maharishi on this one -- I think that today's American leaders very *accurately* represent how most of today's Americans think. And as long as the people allow the current leaders to *stay* leaders, that thinking on the part of the American population has not changed. Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. The emotional reactions (and overreactions) we're seeing in the Arab world are because they're realizing this, too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Mediating the TM community problem to peace, AFSC
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickmays@ wrote: Announcement in the Dome Maharishi desires to know the intention of ALL his Governors, Sidhas Doug writing: That is fine, except that the address is to the same people who have spent, the last 30 days defending his policies and guidelines. Many are the same people who have been there for decades doing that. The problem has gone on for years. Too many of the people left inside are too timid or too intimidated to speak to this problem. Dear Maharishi, towards a more productive resolution of this, look to a wider circle of people to advocate the problem and to listen to. Even ring in outside MEDIATORS to help you speak with people about the problem with: Meditators regarding Golden Dome participation, currently and in the future. With Kind Regard, Doug in FF Dear Maharishi, towards a more productive resolution of your problem with the meditating community, look to a wider circle of people to advocate the problem and to listen to. Even ring in outside MEDIATORS to help you speak with people about the problem with: Meditators regarding Golden Dome participation, currently and in the future. For instance, bring in the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC). They are credible and experienced at mending torn and broken communities. I listened to one of their international mediators lecture on peace processes. This person observed that in process you: -Act early, otherwise it is a lot more work - prepare to stay late -first, negotiate a ceasefire -begin reconstruction projects for civilians immediately -Undertake reconciliation processes of publicly hearing from all parties and seeking justice for all parties. -Dialogue, Process of Forgiveness through truth being spoken and justice found -Stable peace and civil order. -It takes time and happens in time. If you are really looking for an improved situation here then consider bringing in the AFSC to help facilitate the resolution of the problem. -Doug in FF To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Pope's comments
In a message dated 9/17/06 12:01:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry, I know I shouldn't feel this way but I am snickering with delight at all the hot water the Pope is getting into with the Islamists.I also find it hugely entertaining that his comments about Muslims and violence are being met with some protests that end up declaring violence against the West. Yes, it's amusing! It's like he seta trap for them and they were all too glad to walk right into it. LOL! __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. Certainly not in Europe and by no means in Finland. Here I feel we are too understanding of everything people in the Muslim world do and we don't dare to criticize their values and moral thinking. They are seen as just the poor victims. Not a particularly healthy attitude. I don't think they are in the first place victims. I think they are a culture and religion in deep crisis. Something developmental arrest there must be, when big parts of people live in deep poverty in spite of the huge oil riches, and their attitudes and values are on the level people in Europe had in medieval times. Yes, it's pathetic and a huge waste of resources, both material and intellectual. I think in 2001 the gross national product of the whole Arab world, when the oil incomes where reduced, was as big as that of Finland's. Finland has 5 million inhabitants. I find that very telltale. In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the core of the problem. Interesting is also his main theme of the speech that Chistianity has helped in the development of reasonable communication, and moral reasoning among the people in Europe. He also says that he appreciates highly science and its achievements. He is only critical about the narrow use of reason and intellect in scientific thinking. Which I think almost all spiritually inclined people can agree about. His courageous quotation was good also in that sense that it made me and many others read his speech, that I found to be fine. I have never before read a speech by a pope, and got very positively surprised. I'm not a Christian. Now I'm interested in reading it too. Know where I can find it? Here:http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 7:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. To present the deva's advocate position, one could safely say that because in theory America is a democracy, and because in a democracy those who get to run the country and set its policies can do so only because the majority of the population *allows* them to do so (via elections), America's policies towards the Third World *do*, in fact, represent the thinking of the American people. Unfortunately, Barry, I agree with you--whether it's because of outright participation (fairly rare) or just plain apathy (much more common, IMO) we here in the US have allowed our leaders to get away with unbelievable horrors in the 3rd world. And it's not really even that the information is or isn't out there (although much of it is) it's that people don't even ask questions--and haven't for decades. I can't explain it--maybe everyone is so overmedicated they can't think straight. (Not much of an excuse, I know, but the best I can come up with right now.) Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. Many don't even care whether people *here* live or die--look at the debacle of Katrina. And when GB's poll #s finally started to go down, was it over horror at what those people endured? No, it was for purely selfish reasons--gas prices. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. The emotional reactions (and overreactions) we're seeing in the Arab world are because they're realizing this, too. I think they've realized it a lot longer than most Americans, unfortunately. The Islamic world, for all it's poverty, does not seem to lack for people who perceive things fairly clearly and who are willing to fight. I might not agree with their methods, but at least it's not apathy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:06 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: Now I'm interested in reading it too. Know where I can find it? Here:http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/ september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university- regensburg_en.html Thanks! Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Pope's comments
--- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I know I shouldn't feel this way but I am snickering with delight at all the hot water the Pope is getting into with the Islamists. I also find it hugely entertaining that his comments about Muslims and violence are being met with some protests that end up declaring violence against the West. Playing with the monkeys at the zoo is fun, but these monkeys like to kill so you have to be careful. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
Irmeli, I'm with you on the Pope having done nothing really wrong in this scenario, and that in fact he was trying to spread peace, not conflict. I think that one of the things that many people are missing is how *medieval* this whole tempest in a pisspot is. That is, they're missing the 700-year historical context of the Pope's recent remarks. It's as fundamental a mistake as trying to figure out what's happening in Northern Ireland without going back 700 years to the origins of the Protestant/Catholic wars. There is a small subset of a subset of medieval historians in the world whose world view is very much centered on the period of the Crusades, and immediately afterwards. They are convinced that many if not most of the trends we see about us in the daily events of our world have their roots in events that took place in the years of the Crusades and the years that followed them. In short, these guys noticed that a *lot* of the memes we take for granted in Western culture -- demonization of homosexuality, Christians looking down on all other religions (especially Islam) as being lower than Christ- ianity or even demonic, Arabs as filthy, Arabs as ignorant, Arabs as backwards, Arabs as out of touch with modern society -- had their origin in this period just after the Crusades ended. These historians' view is pretty simple. Europe, in its hubris, launched a set of wars in the Middle East to recapture the Holy Land. They got their butts whipped. The consolidated might of Europe went to Africa sure of a quick and easy victory, and the survivors came home with their tails between their legs, whimpering like whipped dogs and happy just to still be alive. Shortly thereafter, within a couple of decades, *most* of the language of the nobility of Europe and the Church had changed radically, towards a demonization of the culture that had whipped its ass. Arabs suddenly (his- torically speaking, that is) went from being portrayed as intelligent and sympathetic in European literature, to being portrayed as ignorant, barbaric, and without moral values. Europe reacted to getting its ass whupped by badmouthing the guys who had whupped it, and they have kept reacting the same way for nearly seven centuries now. What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention this perspective. It surprises me sometimes that I don't see it more in mainstream analysis of the whole Middle East conflict. To me, reading the news every day is like what reading what the daily news would have been like in the 13th and 14th centuries. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? Certainly not in Europe and by no means in Finland. Here I feel we are too understanding of everything people in the Muslim world do and we don't dare to criticize their values and moral thinking. They are seen as just the poor victims. I don't think they are in the first place victims. I think they are a culture and religion in deep crisis. Something developmental arrest there must be, when big parts of people live in deep poverty in spite of the huge oil riches, and their attitudes and values are on the level people in Europe had in medieval times. I think in 2001 the gross national product of the whole Arab world, when the oil incomes where reduced, was as big as that of Finland's. Finland has 5 million inhabitants. I find that very telltale. In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the core of the problem. Interesting is also his main theme of the speech that Chistianity has helped in the development of reasonable communication, and moral reasoning among the people in Europe. He also says that he appreciates highly science and its achievements. He is only critical about the narrow use of reason and intellect in scientific thinking. Which I think almost all spiritually inclined people can agree about. His courageous quotation was good also in that sense that it made me and many others read his speech, that I found to be fine. I have never before read a speech by a pope, and got very positively surprised. I'm not a Christian. Irmeli To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Orono Maine course
Now I remember, Tom Duffy. Very entertaining lecturer. I knew his ex Suzy years later. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My first week long residence course was in Orono, 74 or 75 or maybe both. Charlie D was very intense but I really enjoyed his lectures. Where is he now, Amherst Mass? Did you give any general lectures Rick? I can't remember if I saw you there. Doug Henning had hitched up to Maine with a hot chick from his first Tonight Show appearance . He performed at the talent show. My initiator was Joe Smith, do you remember Joe and Carol from the early days? Pat (first name?) Duffy from Philly was a good guy back then. Memories. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: on 9/16/06 9:14 PM, jyouells2000 at jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer groups@ wrote: Back in the early 70¹s, when Nixon was going through the Watergate ordeal, I heard that Maharishi supported him, and was generally in favor of conservative Republican policies. Charlie Donahue hopped on this bandwagon, so being the mindless little lemming that I was, I did so too, and caught plenty of flak for it at the Orono, ME SCI course. Hey - I remember you from Orno, but I don't remember either you or Charlie taken' heat for Nixon :-) I taught the SCI course to a group of about 50 who had taken it previously. They (deservedly) gave me the heat. I was out of my gourd on that course because I had done 5 weeks of really intense rounding in a cabin in N. Carolina with Charlie Donahue, Billy Lazarus, and George Helland and had come down too quickly because the owner of the cabin wanted us out. (Maharishi gave us permission to round on our own because we couldn¹t both attend the ATR and teach the Orono course.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. They didn't care enough even to vote. Therefore in effect they voted. Bush is President because the American people caused him to be there, via comission or omission. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the core of the problem. Just so we know what we're talking about here, this is the quotation that has angered Muslims (from an AP report on Yahoo! News): In his speech on Tuesday, Benedict quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Christianity and Islam. 'The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war,' the pope said. 'He said, I quote, Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.' Whatever the truth of the last part of the sentence (and it's not quite the slam-dunk some seem to think), it's the first part that is so offensive to Muslims: the only new things Muhammad brought were evil and inhuman. It's not hard to grasp why that has aroused such fury. Imagine the wrath of Christians if a non- Christian were to say the only new things Jesus brought were evil and inhuman, citing, say, Jesus' instruction to hate one's father and mother! The big problem was that the pope *did not repudiate* the offensive part of the quote. He could have made his point about violent jihad just as well if he'd said to start with that he didn't condone the first part. It's too bad that slip (among others, but that was the worst) was so inflammatory that it was hard to hear the rest of what he said dispassionately. And he *still* hasn't apologized for it. All he's said is that he was sorry Muslims were offended by it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) to drain the huge oil wealth and resources for decades for palaces, harems, etc for those select few, when it should have gone towards making life better for everyone. It would be interesting to speculate whether or not these corrupt regimes would still be n power w/o US support--my guess is, many would. Apathy is not restricted to our shores. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? No, not in the slightest. The majority of people are probably absorbed in matters closer to home... JohnY Certainly not in Europe and by no means in Finland. Here I feel we are too understanding of everything people in the Muslim world do and we don't dare to criticize their values and moral thinking. They are seen as just the poor victims. snip To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 7:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. To present the deva's advocate position, one could safely say that because in theory America is a democracy, and because in a democracy those who get to run the country and set its policies can do so only because the majority of the population *allows* them to do so (via elections), America's policies towards the Third World *do*, in fact, represent the thinking of the American people. Unfortunately, Barry, I agree with you--whether it's because of outright participation (fairly rare) or just plain apathy (much more common, IMO) we here in the US have allowed our leaders to get away with unbelievable horrors in the 3rd world. And it's not really even that the information is or isn't out there (although much of it is) it's that people don't even ask questions--and haven't for decades. Not only do they not ask questions, they settle for the Easiest Possible Answer when others do. I can't explain it--maybe everyone is so overmedicated they can't think straight. I actually believe that's a major factor. America is currently one of the most self-medicated cultures on the planet. Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. Many don't even care whether people *here* live or die--look at the debacle of Katrina. True. And when GB's poll #s finally started to go down, was it over horror at what those people endured? No, it was for purely selfish reasons--gas prices. It's a real *issue* with America. Self Interest has been elevated to such Godlike status that it's scary. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. The emotional reactions (and overreactions) we're seeing in the Arab world are because they're realizing this, too. I think they've realized it a lot longer than most Americans, unfortunately. The Islamic world, for all it's poverty, does not seem to lack for people who perceive things fairly clearly and who are willing to fight. I might not agree with their methods, but at least it's not apathy. Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they are NOT is apathetic. If a president of France had tried to fuck with the French people basic rights one tenth as greviously as Bush has fucked with Americans' basic rights, the entire population of France would have been out on the streets in protest. The country would have shut down and would not have moved again until the government rescinded its actions. The French may *be* the drama queens of the planet, but in times like these, drama queens can be counted on to man the barricades, whereas your everyday American can't even be counted upon to make it to a polling place on election day. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. No, sorry, we do NOT know how they felt about Bush. But my point (which of course you do not address) was that your Americans as a whole was grossly incorrect. snip non sequiturs To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. The emotional reactions (and overreactions) we're seeing in the Arab world are because they're realizing this, too I don't agree with singling America out for callousness. I can't think of a single country that acts more virtuously when it has power. We are not fundamentally flawed in the world as Americans compared to people from other countries. As long as people in Africa die by the millions as we all watch, no county has the high ground on compassion. The history of man doesn't show any country acting better in any way. It's a primate thing. It is amazing that we ever transcend our past. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. To present the deva's advocate position, one could safely say that because in theory America is a democracy, and because in a democracy those who get to run the country and set its policies can do so only because the majority of the population *allows* them to do so (via elections), America's policies towards the Third World *do*, in fact, represent the thinking of the American people. If they cared anything about these people in Third World countries, Americans wouldn't have allowed their leaders to have treated them the way they have, for decades now. But they clearly *didn't* care, and still don't, because they have done nothing to remove the leaders who treat the Arab world the way they do. That's the thing that Europeans see about American Whiners that the whiners themselves don't see. Americans are always whining about how their leaders don't really represent who and what Americans 'really' are. I'm with Maharishi on this one -- I think that today's American leaders very *accurately* represent how most of today's Americans think. And as long as the people allow the current leaders to *stay* leaders, that thinking on the part of the American population has not changed. Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. The emotional reactions (and overreactions) we're seeing in the Arab world are because they're realizing this, too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 7:36:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: they cared anything about these people in Third Worldcountries, Americans wouldn't have allowed their leadersto have treated them the way they have, for decades now. But they clearly *didn't* care, and still don't, because they have done nothing to remove the leaders who treatthe Arab world the way they do. Ummm, we overthrew the Taliban and established a democracy for the people and continue to stay there to stabilize Afghanistan. The only thing Afghanistan has ever offered the world are drugs and terrorism yet we sacrifice or soldiers and our resources to help those people have a better way of life. We also overthrew Saddam, one of these leaders, who treats the Arab world the way they do and have established a democracy there as well in which over 12 million people have voted in. We also continue to pursue this goal of a democracy for these people with American resources and lives so that they can work out their own differences, reconcile with one another and join the rest of the civilized world and one day leave violence behind and enjoy their own prosperity. Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam or that we have no business helping these people get rid of their dictators that steel their wealth that pours into their nations by the hundreds of billions of dollars. The same also say it's too costly or lets just do what we can to get along so we can do business and keep the oil flowing as cheaply as we can. No, not everybody wants to keep the third world nations impoverished and under the thumbs of dictators, just some. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:40 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they are NOT is apathetic. Any culture which invented the croissant, cappucino, and Freedom Fries has my vote...even if they can't speak American or even French. :) If a president of France had tried to fuck with the French people basic rights one tenth as greviously as Bush has fucked with Americans' basic rights, the entire population of France would have been out on the streets in protest. The country would have shut down and would not have moved again until the government rescinded its actions. Presumably they never would have elected an illiterate moron to begin with...let alone a whole group of them. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) to drain the huge oil wealth and resources for decades for palaces, harems, etc for those select few, when it should have gone towards making life better for everyone. It would be interesting to speculate whether or not these corrupt regimes would still be n power w/o US support--my guess is, many would. Apathy is not restricted to our shores. I agree that the reason the Arab countries are the way that they are (corruption and all, imbalance of rich and poor and all) is because the people of those countries allow it to take place. However, it's a little different there than it is in America. In America I think you can safely use the word apathy because you're talk- ing about a people who grew up having been told that *they* could change things any time they wanted, through the voting process. This is not true in the Arab world. These people grew up in a culture in which the idea of unseating a reigning monarch or tranferring power to the people is unthink- able. There is no model for it; it has never happened. It's like trying to get a medieval serf to think of the idea of challening his feudal lord. It takes *reallY* extraordinary events (like starvation) before a people raised in a feudal mindset can even conceive of challeng- ing the feudal structure. So I don't think apathy is the right word to describe the acceptance of the status quo we see in many Arab countries. It's more that many of the people really don't know that there is an alternative quo. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:57 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) to drain the huge oil wealth and resources for decades for palaces, harems, etc for those select few, when it should have gone towards making life better for everyone. It would be interesting to speculate whether or not these corrupt regimes would still be n power w/o US support--my guess is, many would. Apathy is not restricted to our shores. I agree that the reason the Arab countries are the way that they are (corruption and all, imbalance of rich and poor and all) is because the people of those countries allow it to take place. However, it's a little different there than it is in America. In America I think you can safely use the word apathy because you're talk- ing about a people who grew up having been told that *they* could change things any time they wanted, through the voting process. This is not true in the Arab world. These people grew up in a culture in which the idea of unseating a reigning monarch or tranferring power to the people is unthink- able. Oh, come on. Many of these reigning monarchs, like in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states, have only been there for a few decades, put in place to keep the oil flowing. Most of the the people there are very aware of that, I would guess. There is no model for it; it has never happened. Maybe that's because most of these countries weren't countries at all until the early 20th century--they were part of various empires--the Holy Roman, Ottoman, etc. It's totally different now, and it's foolish to think they can't tell the difference. It's like trying to get a medieval serf to think of the idea of challening his feudal lord. It takes *reallY* extraordinary events (like starvation) before a people raised in a feudal mindset can even conceive of challeng- ing the feudal structure. They've been all but starving there for decades, and yet nothing's happened. The rulers toss them just enough scraps to keep them from mass starvation, but that's about it. So I don't think apathy is the right word to describe the acceptance of the status quo we see in many Arab countries. It's more that many of the people really don't know that there is an alternative quo. I'll give them a lot more credit for awareness than you do. My guess is most know the US would crush any overt attempt at removal, hence the suicide bombers and other methods the US *can't* crush. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Pope's comments
In a message dated 9/17/06 8:17:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I also find it hugely entertaining that his comments about Muslims and violence are being met with some protests that end up declaring violence against the West.Playing with the monkeys at the zoo is fun, but thesemonkeys like to kill so you have to be careful. ROFLMAO! It is so refreshing to read something so right andpolitically incorrect. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
In a message dated 9/17/06 7:59:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly.Well, no, not "Americans as a whole."More than 51 million Americans voted *against*George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million votedagainst him in 2004. Yet those same 51 million and 59 million would have been led by those that would never have committed to liberating Afghanistan because "no nation has ever conquered the Afghans and we would fall into the same trap that the Russians fell into". "It would be another Vietnam for America". And Saddam would still be in power with more oil revenues than ever before, most likely without sanctions because the ones he had were being undermined by all those powers that wanted Saddam's oil. He would be in a paranoid state with his neighbor developing nukes and feel justified in restarting his own WMD programs again and he would be doing exactly what all those Arab leaders do to their own people.He would have beenraping , killing and impoverishing them as he had been doing. Those same leaders, American,would have been happy to maintain the status quo for "peace" sake and maintain cheap oil supplies and take the risks of leaving leaders like Saddam in power. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:40 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they are NOT is apathetic. Any culture which invented the croissant, cappucino, and Freedom Fries has my vote...even if they can't speak American or even French. :) Here, for possible future reference, is the deep, dark secret that all tourist guides to France should tell you but few do: At least in the major cities, many if not most of the people you speak to *can* understand and speak English. It's just that unless their income is completely dependent on tips -- and sometimes even when it is -- they WON'T converse with you in English until you first prove your worthiness as a human being. You do this by attempting to speak French, and thus by embarrassing yourself thoroughly in public. Once you've done this and the other French people in the shop or bar or restaurant have had the opportunity to snicker silently at your terrible accent and grammar, the French are more than willing to suddenly rediscover their previously-lapsed language skills and speak English with you. It's a pecking order thang. :-) If a president of France had tried to fuck with the French people basic rights one tenth as greviously as Bush has fucked with Americans' basic rights, the entire population of France would have been out on the streets in protest. The country would have shut down and would not have moved again until the government rescinded its actions. Presumably they never would have elected an illiterate moron to begin with...let alone a whole group of them. I dunno. Look at Chirac. He's in place because (near as I can figure out) the French went into the last *primary* elections voting the way French people DO, for tiny little Green and Socialist and Liberal and even Commie party candidates. They do this thinking that the primary is where they get to protest, and then they'll cast their *real* vote in the final election. Well, the problem was that so many people voted for their for show tiny parties that the two candidates for the final election were a conservative blowhard with a history of corruption and zero charisma (Chirac) and a dangerous Right-wing (but charismatic) nutcase named Le Pen. It is to the French people's credit that they came out en masse to vote Le Pen down, but it is to their discredit that they allowed either him *or* Chirac to be nominated in the first place. Just my opinion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 9:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At least in the major cities, many if not most of the people you speak to *can* understand and speak English. It's just that unless their income is completely dependent on tips -- and sometimes even when it is -- they WON'T converse with you in English until you first prove your worthiness as a human being. You do this by attempting to speak French, and thus by embarrassing yourself thoroughly in public. Once you've done this and the other French people in the shop or bar or restaurant have had the opportunity to snicker silently at your terrible accent and grammar, the French are more than willing to suddenly rediscover their previously-lapsed language skills and speak English with you. It's a pecking order thang. :-) Actually, I've found that most people appreciate this. Nobody expects fluency from a tourist, but if you visit another country, and attempt to speak even a few phrases, even if you have to look them up in a phrase-book right as you're speaking them, people seem to treat you differently, as someone who is making an effort, even a small one, to understand a part of their culture. I've never interpreted the laughter to be derisive. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Feudal Mindset the TMorg.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that the reason the Arab countries are the way that they are (corruption and all, imbalance of rich and poor and all) is because the people of those countries allow it to take place. However, it's a little different there than it is in America. In America I think you can safely use the word apathy because you're talk- ing about a people who grew up having been told that *they* could change things any time they wanted, through the voting process. This is not true in the Arab world. These people grew up in a culture in which the idea of unseating a reigning monarch or tranferring power to the people is unthink- able. There is no model for it; it has never happened. It's like trying to get a medieval serf to think of the idea of challening his feudal lord. It takes *reallY* extraordinary events (like starvation) before a people raised in a feudal mindset can even conceive of challeng- ing the feudal structure. So I don't think apathy is the right word to describe the acceptance of the status quo we see in many Arab countries. It's more that many of the people really don't know that there is an alternative quo. Not so unlike it has been with people here in FF with the TMorg and Maharishi. There is simply no forum within the meditating community or culture of free dialogue, those are tactically controlled to keep it the way it is (corruption and all, imbalance of rich and poor and all). -Doug in FF To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam Who has said that? Can you give us *just one* name and quote? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:57 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: snip So I don't think apathy is the right word to describe the acceptance of the status quo we see in many Arab countries. It's more that many of the people really don't know that there is an alternative quo. I'll give them a lot more credit for awareness than you do. My guess is most know the US would crush any overt attempt at removal, hence the suicide bombers and other methods the US *can't* crush. On the nose, Sal. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 7:59:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Yet those same 51 million and 59 million would have been led by those that would never have committed to liberating Afghanistan because no nation has ever conquered the Afghans and we would fall into the same trap that the Russians fell into. Sorry, but imaginary scenarios about what Gore or Kerry would have done do not an argument make. As for our having liberated Afghanistan, you don't read the news much, I gather. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 9:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At least in the major cities, many if not most of the people you speak to *can* understand and speak English. It's just that unless their income is completely dependent on tips -- and sometimes even when it is -- they WON'T converse with you in English until you first prove your worthiness as a human being. You do this by attempting to speak French, and thus by embarrassing yourself thoroughly in public. Once you've done this and the other French people in the shop or bar or restaurant have had the opportunity to snicker silently at your terrible accent and grammar, the French are more than willing to suddenly rediscover their previously-lapsed language skills and speak English with you. It's a pecking order thang. :-) Actually, I've found that most people appreciate this. Nobody expects fluency from a tourist, but if you visit another country, and attempt to speak even a few phrases, even if you have to look them up in a phrase-book right as you're speaking them, people seem to treat you differently, as someone who is making an effort, even a small one, to understand a part of their culture. I've never interpreted the laughter to be derisive. Most of the time it isn't. I was just doing the Dave Barry version. :-) http://www.davebarry.com/president/dave2k/columns/french1.htm http://www.davebarry.com/president/dave2k/columns/french2.htm Woon. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
I just learned to say hi and thank you in the languages of the different Asian communities I live with. It totally transforms my relationships like a cultural open seseme. (sometimes I have needed the phrase does your brother carry a gun.) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 9:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At least in the major cities, many if not most of the people you speak to *can* understand and speak English. It's just that unless their income is completely dependent on tips -- and sometimes even when it is -- they WON'T converse with you in English until you first prove your worthiness as a human being. You do this by attempting to speak French, and thus by embarrassing yourself thoroughly in public. Once you've done this and the other French people in the shop or bar or restaurant have had the opportunity to snicker silently at your terrible accent and grammar, the French are more than willing to suddenly rediscover their previously-lapsed language skills and speak English with you. It's a pecking order thang. :-) Actually, I've found that most people appreciate this. Nobody expects fluency from a tourist, but if you visit another country, and attempt to speak even a few phrases, even if you have to look them up in a phrase-book right as you're speaking them, people seem to treat you differently, as someone who is making an effort, even a small one, to understand a part of their culture. I've never interpreted the laughter to be derisive. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. They didn't care enough even to vote. Therefore in effect they voted. Bush is President because the American people caused him to be there, via comission or omission. Your theory appears to presume the US is a pure democracy -- one person, one vote. While that is the standard throughout much of the civilized world, the US is a democratic back water. It remains a backwater of darkness and corruption due to i) the electoral college (Gore won in 2000 -- the was the true reflection of US will), ii) a bi-cameral system of legislature where one house is the antithesis of one persone, one vote, and the other is so rigged (jerrymandering) that only 10% or so of races are actually competitive -- that is -- democratic. The rest of the races are simple power-maintnenace by entrenched rulers. Further, out-of-state contribution to local races, corrupt lobbying rules and campaign finance, and no centralized national election rules -- allowing local corruption (Ohio, Florida, Kathleen Smith, paperless trail voting machines) all are choking the true will of the people by entrenched powers. With so many distortions in in ts so-called democracy, democracy in the US is a sick patient in intensive care. Hardly vibrant and reflective of the will of the people. The US currently is more than than not, a banana republic of entrenched powers sustaining their power. Its not a wonder corrupt low-vibe policies are developed and implemented. How to break the black-shroud of darkeness choking american democracy? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just learned to say hi and thank you in the languages of the different Asian communities I live with. I always had good luck with the phrase, We've come for your daughters, Chuck. When properly translated, most people in most countries take this as some kind of obscure film reference (which it is), and rarely look upon it as a sincere admission of intent. It totally transforms my relationships like a cultural open seseme... I'll have to look into this. That's the effect I was going for with my phrase... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://tinyurl.com/fehwp It looks like the Corleone Family compound on Long Island. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I just learned to say hi and thank you in the languages of the different Asian communities I live with. I always had good luck with the phrase, We've come for your daughters, Chuck. When properly translated, most people in most countries take this as some kind of obscure film reference (which it is), and rarely look upon it as a sincere admission of intent. It totally transforms my relationships like a cultural open seseme... I'll have to look into this. That's the effect I was going for with my phrase... :-) So it will now be: Hi. We have come for your daughters, chuck(lehead), Thanks!? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Pope's comments
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I know I shouldn't feel this way but I am snickering with delight at all the hot water the Pope is getting into with the Islamists. I also find it hugely entertaining that his comments about Muslims and violence are being met with some protests that end up declaring violence against the West. Playing with the monkeys at the zoo is fun, but these monkeys like to kill so you have to be careful. What will these monkeys do if they get their hands on a nuke? Do we take the President of Iran at his word? Will he wipe out Israel and use a nuke to do it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: http://tinyurl.com/fehwp It looks like the Corleone Family compound on Long Island. And whats with that huge Northwest facing set of buildings -- not on the N/S axis like the other buildings (allowing huge east entrances) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: http://tinyurl.com/fehwp It looks like the Corleone Family compound on Long Island. You do know that the Corleone compound on Lake Tahoe, the one that appears in the film, was once rented for a long period of time by Maharishi, right? Perhaps that was his inspiration for SV design, eh? I'm gonna make you a city plan you just can't refuse. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) just as corrupt US leaders? And who would those be, Sunshine? And why? to drain the huge oil wealth and resources for decades for palaces, harems, etc for those select few, when it should have gone towards making life better for everyone. It would be interesting to speculate whether or not these corrupt regimes would still be n power w/o US support--my guess is, many would. Apathy is not restricted to our shores. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they are NOT is apathetic. If a president of France had tried to fuck with the French people basic rights one tenth as greviously as Bush has fucked with Americans' basic rights, the entire population of France would have been out on the streets in protest. Having a 25 hour work week (or whatever the maximum hours the French unions have negotiated for themselves) is NOT a basic human right, Barry. Neither the judicial system nor the basic rights and freedoms of the French come close to what Americans enjoy. You simply don't know what you're talking about. The country would have shut down and would not have moved again until the government rescinded its actions. The French may *be* the drama queens of the planet, but in times like these, drama queens can be counted on to man the barricades, whereas your everyday American can't even be counted upon to make it to a polling place on election day. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 10:19 AM, shempmcgurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) just as corrupt US leaders? And who would those be, Sunshine? Pretty much all the ones you admire, Shemp. And why? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: snip Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam Who has said that? Can you give us *just one* name and quote? Strangely, I have a Kuwaiti friend who has said exactly this. Her family and friends went through hell when Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990 (she was here in America through it all), and the Americans saved them. Yet she was dead-set against invading and toppling Saddam in 2003. She is incredibly anti-Bush. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having a 25 hour work week (or whatever the maximum hours the French unions have negotiated for themselves) is NOT a basic human right, Barry. 35 hours, Shemp. But you have the origin of this shorter work week backwards. It didn't come from the side of the workers or from labor union efforts, but from the side of the guvmint itself. They figured that if they set the max work week at 35 hours per day, they could create more jobs and thus have more people working. Besides, you're just jealous. The French workers also get a minimum of four weeks' paid vacation per year, too. Nyaah nyaah. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
It totally transforms my relationships like a cultural open seseme... I'll have to look into this. That's the effect I was going for with my phrase... :-) Can I pour you another? can work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I just learned to say hi and thank you in the languages of the different Asian communities I live with. I always had good luck with the phrase, We've come for your daughters, Chuck. When properly translated, most people in most countries take this as some kind of obscure film reference (which it is), and rarely look upon it as a sincere admission of intent. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: http://tinyurl.com/fehwp It looks like the Corleone Family compound on Long Island. You do know that the Corleone compound on Lake Tahoe, the one that appears in the film, was once rented for a long period of time by Maharishi, right? Four months or less. And the gate was always open. TMers from the bay area would just wander in. Perhaps that was his inspiration for SV design, eh? I'm gonna make you a city plan you just can't refuse. The novel, The Godfather -- before the films, was the secret SIMS organizational manual. Keith Wallace, Joe Clarke, Jerry Jarvis and all all the shanks I think, plus a lot area coordinators, etc, loved it and quoted / joked about it. Back when make him an offer he can't refuse' was fresh and new in the human psych -- not the cliche of today -- using that bon mot to describe MMY's World Plan was funny. And pretty right on: Clearer mind, improved health, better social (love) life, world peace quite an offer! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] That Religion of 'Peace' again
Somalia: Italian nun's murder may be linked to Pope, official says Published: 09.17.06, 15:06 The killing of an Italian Catholic nun in Mogadishu on Sunday may well be linked to anger among Muslims about Pope Benedict's recent remarks on Islam, a senior source among Somalia's Islamists said. There is a very high possibility the people who killed her were angered by the Catholic Pope's recent comments against Islam, the source said. (Reuters) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. They didn't care enough even to vote. Therefore in effect they voted. Bush is President because the American people caused him to be there, via comission or omission. Your theory appears to presume the US is a pure democracy -- one person, one vote. While that is the standard throughout much of the civilized world Oh, really? Tell us where this is a standard, please. Often, the one-man-one-vote standard is purposely NOT built into a country's democratic system. For example, where you have minorities, the one-man-one-vote principal can wipe out their individual and minority rights and, often, a country's constitution will provide protections for them. In Canada where I'm from, the constitution provided certain minorities guaranteed minimum seats in pariament, despite their dwindling numbers or their percentage of the population. The most blatant example of that is the tiny Island of Prince Edward Island with a population of about 150,000. The Canadian constitution guarantees them 4 seats in the federal parliament whereas if it were done on the basis of one-man-one-vote they'd get less than one. And one of the big complaints by provinces such as Alberta is that the one-man-one-vote principle is grossly unfair to them in ther federal parliament. Alberta didn't exist when Canada and its constitution were created in 1867. Today, relative to Ontario and Quebec, Alberta and B.C. have little population and have no hope of being a majority in parliament. Capture the votes of just Ontario and some of Quebec and the other 8 provinces can be ignored. And that's why separation is not just a Quebec phenomenon but an Alberta one as well. Indeed, Alberta has been crying for decades for precisely the sort of thing that you rail against below: the distortion of and antithesis of one-man-one-vote...that is, a Senate with equal provincial representation in a bicameral legislature. the US is a democratic back water. It remains a backwater of darkness and corruption due to i) the electoral college (Gore won in 2000 -- the was the true reflection of US will), ii) a bi-cameral system of legislature where one house is the antithesis of one persone, one vote, and the other is so rigged (jerrymandering) that only 10% or so of races are actually competitive -- that is -- democratic. The rest of the races are simple power-maintnenace by entrenched rulers. Further, out-of-state contribution to local races, corrupt lobbying rules and campaign finance, and no centralized national election rules -- allowing local corruption (Ohio, Florida, Kathleen Smith, paperless trail voting machines) all are choking the true will of the people by entrenched powers. With so many distortions in in ts so-called democracy, democracy in the US is a sick patient in intensive care. Hardly vibrant and reflective of the will of the people. The US currently is more than than not, a banana republic of entrenched powers sustaining their power. Its not a wonder corrupt low-vibe policies are developed and implemented. How to break the black-shroud of darkeness choking american democracy? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: http://tinyurl.com/fehwp It looks like the Corleone Family compound on Long Island. You do know that the Corleone compound on Lake Tahoe, the one that appears in the film, was once rented for a long period of time by Maharishi, right? As Johnny Carson used to say: I did not know that. Perhaps that was his inspiration for SV design, eh? I'm gonna make you a city plan you just can't refuse. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 10:19 AM, shempmcgurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being treated like ignoramuses by the losers ever since. They're understandably a little pissed. OTOH, Barry, as intelligent and thoughtful as most Arabs undoubtedly are, they *have* allowed a small, corrupt cadre of uncaring individuals with little or no conscience (with, admittedly, the aid and support of just-as-corrupt US leaders) just as corrupt US leaders? And who would those be, Sunshine? Pretty much all the ones you admire, Shemp. Great answer, Sunshine-ski. I pretty much figured you didn't have an argument there to back up what you said. It just sounded cool to say, didn't it. And why? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. No huge insight there. The question is whether a democracy of one-person one vote is more reflective of the will of the people than systems where some peoples vote count 10x, sometimes 100x of others. Let Canadians do what they will. In the US, I advocate one-person one vote. And the abolishment of hugely distortianal systems like the electoral college which not only distorts the will of the popular vote (Gore 2000) but makes all but a handful states mere observers, not participants in national elections. I lived in California most of my life. In memory, few presidential candidates ever visited or spent energy in California. What kind of system is that where the most populous state, the largest state economy, and some would venture the most creative, innovation and research-focussed state, is basically excluded from presidential systems. Blame the election on Iowans! :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. They didn't care enough even to vote. Therefore in effect they voted. Bush is President because the American people caused him to be there, via comission or omission. Your theory appears to presume the US is a pure democracy -- one person, one vote. While that is the standard throughout much of the civilized world Oh, really? Tell us where this is a standard, please. Often, the one-man-one-vote standard is purposely NOT built into a country's democratic system. For example, where you have minorities, the one-man-one-vote principal can wipe out their individual and minority rights and, often, a country's constitution will provide protections for them. In Canada where I'm from, the constitution provided certain minorities guaranteed minimum seats in pariament, despite their dwindling numbers or their percentage of the population. The most blatant example of that is the tiny Island of Prince Edward Island with a population of about 150,000. The Canadian constitution guarantees them 4 seats in the federal parliament whereas if it were done on the basis of one-man-one-vote they'd get less than one. And one of the big complaints by provinces such as Alberta is that the one-man-one-vote principle is grossly unfair to them in ther federal parliament. Alberta didn't exist when Canada and its constitution were created in 1867. Today, relative to Ontario and Quebec, Alberta and B.C. have little population and have no hope of being a majority in parliament. Capture the votes of just Ontario and some of Quebec and the other 8 provinces can be ignored. And that's why separation is not just a Quebec phenomenon but an Alberta one as well. Indeed, Alberta has been crying for decades for precisely the sort of thing that you rail against below: the distortion of and antithesis of one-man-one-vote...that is, a Senate with equal provincial representation in a bicameral legislature. the US is a democratic back water. It remains a backwater of darkness and corruption due to i) the electoral college (Gore won in 2000 -- the was the true reflection of US will), ii) a bi-cameral system of legislature where one house is the antithesis of one persone, one vote, and the other is so rigged (jerrymandering) that only 10% or so of races are actually competitive -- that is -- democratic. The rest of the races are simple power-maintnenace by entrenched rulers. Further, out-of-state contribution to local races, corrupt lobbying rules and campaign finance, and no centralized national election rules -- allowing local corruption (Ohio, Florida, Kathleen Smith, paperless trail voting machines) all are choking the true will of the people by entrenched powers. With so many distortions in in ts so-called democracy,
[FairfieldLife] YF and COP 1.0?
http://tinyurl.com/m9uph 1.0 Introduction to the Problem: Considerable confusion appears to exist with respect to the definition of the efficiency (å) of an energy system or energy process versus the definition of its coefficient of performance (COP). Thus, the purpose of this paper is to show the distinction and the relationship between these two important concepts. 2.0 Assumptions: For the development of this problem the following definitions are needed to clarify the energy flow concepts necessary for a logical understanding of the thermodynamic energy processes involved: a) An energy process is an entity that accepts input energy, transforms or converts the energy to a different form (producing work), and outputs useful energy. b) An energy system is a set of two or more energy processes, operating in series and/or parallel, such that the final output is useful energy. c) An energy system or energy process may be in equilibrium with its environment (i.e. energy input from environment equals energy output to environment) or far from equilibrium with its environment (i.e. energy input from environment differs from energy output to environment). [Note: Hereafter, the word system shall be used for system or process.] To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Am I like Einstein? ; )
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since the deepest point of rest during TM i s a state where you don't notice *ANYTHING* at all, Iwouldn't worry about not noticing your hands getting warmer... Well, earlier my hands tended to be cold, nowadays they are lukewarm ans somewhat sweaty almost all the time. I guess that can be considered progress, but I still have a long way to go. Or is that perhaps a sign of pitta imbalance? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? Certainly not in Europe and by no means in Finland. Here I feel we are too understanding of everything people in the Muslim world do and we don't dare to criticize their values and moral thinking. They are seen as just the poor victims. There is that well known saying,Actions speak louder than words. The politicians are there to carry out the will of those in power and placate the people. Behind the scenes in the US and in Europe the imperial agenda is still very much in place. The palatable lies told to the populace to make them believe in 'kinder and gentler' leaders are calculated to prevent us from seeing the geopolitical reality. If you stop listening to the politicians and just observe for a little while, you may see an entirely different picture than those spouting empty words would have you believe. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. It's not so much a globbing on to power as it is a protection against the misuse of power by a majority. Tyranny of the majority is also globbing onto more power and is one that can run roughshod over minorities. You huffily proclaimed that because of it's absense of pure one-man- one-vote, the U.S. is a democratic back water. I pointed out to you that democracy is more than just one-man-one-vote and concessions to this don't necessarily mean an abandonment of democracy nor because democratic principles are ignored. Protection of the weak and minorities is hardly darkness and corruption. No huge insight there. The question is whether a democracy of one-person one vote is more reflective of the will of the people than systems where some peoples vote count 10x, sometimes 100x of others. Let Canadians do what they will. In the US, I advocate one-person one vote. And the abolishment of hugely distortianal systems like the electoral college which not only distorts the will of the popular vote (Gore 2000) but makes all but a handful states mere observers, not participants in national elections. I lived in California most of my life. In memory, few presidential candidates ever visited or spent energy in California. What kind of system is that where the most populous state, the largest state economy, and some would venture the most creative, innovation and research-focussed state, is basically excluded from presidential systems. Blame the election on Iowans! :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. They didn't care enough even to vote. Therefore in effect they voted. Bush is President because the American people caused him to be there, via comission or omission. Your theory appears to presume the US is a pure democracy -- one person, one vote. While that is the standard throughout much of the civilized world Oh, really? Tell us where this is a standard, please. Often, the one-man-one-vote standard is purposely NOT built into a country's democratic system. For example, where you have minorities, the one-man-one-vote principal can wipe out their individual and minority rights and, often, a country's constitution will provide protections for them. In Canada where I'm from, the constitution provided certain minorities guaranteed minimum seats in pariament, despite their dwindling numbers or their percentage of the population. The most blatant example of that is the tiny Island of Prince Edward Island with a population of about 150,000. The Canadian constitution guarantees them 4 seats in the federal parliament whereas if it were done on the basis of one-man-one-vote they'd get less than one. And one of the big complaints by provinces such as Alberta is that the one-man-one-vote principle is grossly unfair to them in ther federal parliament. Alberta didn't exist when Canada and its constitution were created in 1867. Today, relative to Ontario and Quebec, Alberta and B.C. have little population and have no hope of being a majority in parliament. Capture the votes of just Ontario and some of Quebec and the other 8 provinces can be ignored. And that's why separation is not just a Quebec phenomenon but an Alberta one as well. Indeed, Alberta has been crying for decades for precisely the sort of thing that you rail against below: the distortion of and antithesis of one-man-one-vote...that is, a Senate with equal provincial representation in a bicameral legislature. the US is a democratic back water. It remains a
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how the majority of people and the politicians in the USA think? OF course not. What do you think? A few lunatics on the right do, and unfortunately they've cheated and bullied their way into power. It won't last, it never does. Certainly not in Europe and by no means in Finland. Here I feel we are too understanding of everything people in the Muslim world do and we don't dare to criticize their values and moral thinking. They are seen as just the poor victims. Not a particularly healthy attitude. I don't think they are in the first place victims. I think they are a culture and religion in deep crisis. Something developmental arrest there must be, when big parts of people live in deep poverty in spite of the huge oil riches, and their attitudes and values are on the level people in Europe had in medieval times. Yes, it's pathetic and a huge waste of resources, both material and intellectual. It goes back to Western manipulation of non-Western civilizations (not that the non- Western civilization don't indulge as well). We (Brits, US, Europe, USSR) have supported very nasty regimes in the Middle East for generations in order to control the oil, the geography, etc. Those same regimes see the writing on the wall as far as their power goes because the world will quite soon (within the next century) go to a post-oil economy, and theyare fighting to stay in power. Staying in power doesn't mean creating an educated citizenry. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Flying on a trampoline?
When I suggested on a Finnish Usenet physics group that the original asymmetric Maxwellian EM equations -- of which I don't of course understand nuttin, mathematicswise -- might explain yogic flying, someone proposed that the YFfers try to fly on a loose trampoline or somesuch, to rule out the effect of muscles. I said I thought that was a good idea. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. No huge insight there. The question is whether a democracy of one-person one vote is more reflective of the will of the people than systems where some peoples vote count 10x, sometimes 100x of others. Let Canadians do what they will. In the US, I advocate one-person one vote. And the abolishment of hugely distortianal systems like the electoral college which not only distorts the will of the popular vote (Gore 2000) but makes all but a handful states mere observers, not participants in national elections. I lived in California most of my life. In memory, few presidential candidates ever visited or spent energy in California. What kind of system is that where the most populous state, the largest state economy, and some would venture the most creative, innovation and research-focussed state, is basically excluded from presidential systems. Blame the election on Iowans! :) I ask you again: Where is one-man-one-vote -- which you claim is the standard almost everywhere -- the standard? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. They didn't care enough even to vote. Therefore in effect they voted. Bush is President because the American people caused him to be there, via comission or omission. Your theory appears to presume the US is a pure democracy -- one person, one vote. While that is the standard throughout much of the civilized world Oh, really? Tell us where this is a standard, please. Often, the one-man-one-vote standard is purposely NOT built into a country's democratic system. For example, where you have minorities, the one-man-one-vote principal can wipe out their individual and minority rights and, often, a country's constitution will provide protections for them. In Canada where I'm from, the constitution provided certain minorities guaranteed minimum seats in pariament, despite their dwindling numbers or their percentage of the population. The most blatant example of that is the tiny Island of Prince Edward Island with a population of about 150,000. The Canadian constitution guarantees them 4 seats in the federal parliament whereas if it were done on the basis of one-man-one-vote they'd get less than one. And one of the big complaints by provinces such as Alberta is that the one-man-one-vote principle is grossly unfair to them in ther federal parliament. Alberta didn't exist when Canada and its constitution were created in 1867. Today, relative to Ontario and Quebec, Alberta and B.C. have little population and have no hope of being a majority in parliament. Capture the votes of just Ontario and some of Quebec and the other 8 provinces can be ignored. And that's why separation is not just a Quebec phenomenon but an Alberta one as well. Indeed, Alberta has been crying for decades for precisely the sort of thing that you rail against below: the distortion of and antithesis of one-man-one-vote...that is, a Senate with equal provincial representation in a bicameral legislature. the US is a democratic back water. It remains a backwater of darkness and corruption due to i) the electoral college (Gore won in 2000 -- the was the true reflection of US will), ii) a bi-cameral system of legislature where one house is the antithesis of one persone, one vote, and the other is so rigged (jerrymandering) that only 10% or so of races are actually competitive -- that is -- democratic. The rest of the races are simple power-maintnenace by entrenched rulers. Further, out-of-state
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. It's not so much a globbing on to power as it is a protection against the misuse of power by a majority. So says the minority globbing on to power. I think baisc protections for minorityes are needed in constitution, but that doesn't mean every minory should have unequal voting power. TMers are a minority, why should we have 100x the voting power of otehrs. Blues guitarists are a minority, why shouldn't they hav 100x the voting power of others. Smart people are a minority, why shouldn't they have 100x voting power? And ergo, why should smart, TMing blues guitarists have 1,000,000 (10^3) voting power? So give minority more voting power so it can misue power over the majority? Tyranny of the majority is also globbing onto more power and is one that can run roughshod over minorities. The power you talking about is funding and allocation power over tax dollars, IMO. Its raw power grabs. Thus, push gov't programs to lowest possible level of decentralization, IMO. But a big gov't central planning type like you might disagree. :) You huffily, No, you huffiliy heard, apparently proclaimed that because of it's absense of pure one-man- one-vote, the U.S. is a democratic back water. I pointed out to you that democracy is more than just one-man-one-vote and concessions to this don't necessarily mean an abandonment of democracy nor because democratic principles are ignored. So its less democratic. I didnt say US was totally dsevoid of democracy. But more than not, ruled by entrenched powers. So you support electoral college, jerryrigging house districts, out of state funding for local elections, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying rules, etc? Because these are among the major things for which I advocated reform Protection of the weak and minorities is hardly darkness and corruption. If you want to create strawmen, and make arguemnts totally black and white, have a great go at it, if that amuses you. I am interested in serious discussion, not polemics. No huge insight there. The question is whether a democracy of one-person one vote is more reflective of the will of the people than systems where some peoples vote count 10x, sometimes 100x of others. Let Canadians do what they will. In the US, I advocate one-person one vote. And the abolishment of hugely distortianal systems like the electoral college which not only distorts the will of the popular vote (Gore 2000) but makes all but a handful states mere observers, not participants in national elections. I lived in California most of my life. In memory, few presidential candidates ever visited or spent energy in California. What kind of system is that where the most populous state, the largest state economy, and some would venture the most creative, innovation and research-focussed state, is basically excluded from presidential systems. Blame the election on Iowans! :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the lever for Bush. We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. They didn't care enough even to vote. Therefore in effect they voted. Bush is President because the American people caused him to be there, via comission or omission. Your theory appears to presume the US is a pure democracy -- one person, one vote. While that is the standard throughout much of the civilized world Oh, really? Tell us where this is a standard, please. Often, the one-man-one-vote standard is purposely NOT built into a country's democratic system. For example, where you have
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:40 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they are NOT is apathetic. Any culture which invented the croissant, cappucino, and Freedom Fries has my vote...even if they can't speak American or even French. :) If a president of France had tried to fuck with the French people basic rights one tenth as greviously as Bush has fucked with Americans' basic rights, the entire population of France would have been out on the streets in protest. The country would have shut down and would not have moved again until the government rescinded its actions. Presumably they never would have elected an illiterate moron to begin with...let alone a whole group of them. Sal Bush isn't illiterate. Nor is he a moron. He literally likes to play one on TV, however. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Flying on a trampoline?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I suggested on a Finnish Usenet physics group that the original asymmetric Maxwellian EM equations -- of which I don't of course understand nuttin, mathematicswise -- might explain yogic flying, someone proposed that the YFfers try to fly on a loose trampoline or somesuch, to rule out the effect of muscles. I said I thought that was a good idea. Oh yeah! What an exciting demo of yogic flying that would be! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: snip Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam Who has said that? Can you give us *just one* name and quote? Strangely, I have a Kuwaiti friend who has said exactly this. Her family and friends went through hell when Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990 (she was here in America through it all), and the Americans saved them. Yet she was dead-set against invading and toppling Saddam in 2003. She is incredibly anti-Bush. Have you asked why? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Flying on a trampoline?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I suggested on a Finnish Usenet physics group that the original asymmetric Maxwellian EM equations -- of which I don't of course understand nuttin, mathematicswise -- might explain yogic flying, someone proposed that the YFfers try to fly on a loose trampoline or somesuch, to rule out the effect of muscles. I said I thought that was a good idea. The standard TM explanatin currently (as of 1984) is that the muscles are involved in hopping, and in fact, even in floating, the muscles will be involved. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. It's not so much a globbing on to power as it is a protection against the misuse of power by a majority. So says the minority globbing on to power. I think baisc protections for minorityes are needed in constitution, but that doesn't mean every minory should have unequal voting power. TMers are a minority, why should we have 100x the voting power of otehrs. Blues guitarists are a minority, why shouldn't they hav 100x the voting power of others. Smart people are a minority, why shouldn't they have 100x voting power? And ergo, why should smart, TMing blues guitarists have 1,000,000 (10^3) voting power? So give minority more voting power so it can misue power over the majority? Tyranny of the majority is also globbing onto more power and is one that can run roughshod over minorities. The power you talking about is funding and allocation power over tax dollars, IMO. Its raw power grabs. Thus, push gov't programs to lowest possible level of decentralization, IMO. But a big gov't central planning type like you might disagree. :) You huffily, No, you huffiliy heard, apparently proclaimed that because of it's absense of pure one-man- one-vote, the U.S. is a democratic back water. I pointed out to you that democracy is more than just one-man-one-vote and concessions to this don't necessarily mean an abandonment of democracy nor because democratic principles are ignored. So its less democratic. I didnt say US was totally dsevoid of democracy. Oh, I think the use of the words democratic backwater and backwater of darkness and corruption and black shroud of darkness choking American democracy comes pretty close. But more than not, ruled by entrenched powers. So you support electoral college, Yes. jerryrigging house districts, No. out of state funding for local elections, Doesn't bother me in the slightest corrupt campaign finance and lobbying rules, etc? Anything less than laissez-faire in the area of campaign finances bothers me. Because these are among the major things for which I advocated reform Protection of the weak and minorities is hardly darkness and corruption. If you want to create strawmen, and make arguemnts totally black and white, have a great go at it, if that amuses you. I am interested in serious discussion, not polemics. I see. And your darkness, backwater etc. comments are...what...examples of maturity? No huge insight there. The question is whether a democracy of one-person one vote is more reflective of the will of the people than systems where some peoples vote count 10x, sometimes 100x of others. Let Canadians do what they will. In the US, I advocate one- person one vote. And the abolishment of hugely distortianal systems like the electoral college which not only distorts the will of the popular vote (Gore 2000) but makes all but a handful states mere observers, not participants in national elections. I lived in California most of my life. In memory, few presidential candidates ever visited or spent energy in California. What kind of system is that where the most populous state, the largest state economy, and some would venture the most creative, innovation and research-focussed state, is basically excluded from presidential systems. Blame the election on Iowans! :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. Well, no, not Americans as a whole. More than 51 million Americans voted *against* George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted against him in 2004. Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know that less than a third of voters actually pulled the
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and sustained ways, I would give your arguments more credence and support. A proposal that would actually be in the direction of protecting minority rights (and one needs to first make a case that rights are being violated) would be to guarantee all native americans of 50% or greater NA heredity living on reservations 10-20 house seats. And perhaps 30 seats to all living below 15,000 / income. Then the structure would appear, at least on the surface to protect minority* or more importantly, underpriveledged rights. i might tend to support such a system, if we could reform the other non-democratic aspects of US political system. * I don't see reasons to absolutely focus on minority rights if such are not being abused. Asian indians or japanese imigrants are a minority but seem to do quite well in the US. Why give a particular minority class special priviledges if they are as a class already quite priviledged? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: It's not so much a globbing on to power as it is a protection against the misuse of power by a majority. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:05 PM, new.morning wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and sustained ways, I would give your arguments more credence and support. They don't, in fact institutions and practices like that do everything in their power to suppress minority rights and voices, something which Shemp supports wholeheartedly, since he is not directly affected. He uses those and other such arguments as diversionary tactics. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Flying on a trampoline?
...even in floating, the muscles will be involved. Thighs flapping like wings perhaps? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: When I suggested on a Finnish Usenet physics group that the original asymmetric Maxwellian EM equations -- of which I don't of course understand nuttin, mathematicswise -- might explain yogic flying, someone proposed that the YFfers try to fly on a loose trampoline or somesuch, to rule out the effect of muscles. I said I thought that was a good idea. The standard TM explanatin currently (as of 1984) is that the muscles are involved in hopping, and in fact, even in floating, the muscles will be involved. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:05 PM, new.morning wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and sustained ways, I would give your arguments more credence and support. They don't, in fact institutions and practices like that do everything in their power to suppress minority rights and voices, something which Shemp supports wholeheartedly, since he is not directly affected. He uses those and other such arguments as diversionary tactics. Sal Vermont and Rhode Island disagree with you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and sustained ways, I would give your arguments more credence and support. First all of, I'm still waiting for YOU to tell us where in the world the one-man-one-vote rule -- which you claim is the standard -- exists. As for jerrymandering, I specifically said I didn't support that...so why are you asking me for examples of it? As for the other things, I didn't mean to give you the impression that I thought they were for supporting minorities. I'm obviously NOT for corruption in campaign financing or any other area of life. But it's quite a subjective thing in the area of campaign financing to claim that this or that practise is corrupt. I'm for laissez-faire in this area. I don't give a rat's ass how much is spent or by whom in any campaign. In this day and age of the internet, if people are going to be fooled by a TV campaign ad, then they will get the government they deserve. Campaign finance laws do more damage than good. A proposal that would actually be in the direction of protecting minority rights (and one needs to first make a case that rights are being violated) would be to guarantee all native americans of 50% or greater NA heredity living on reservations 10-20 house seats. And perhaps 30 seats to all living below 15,000 / income. Then the structure would appear, at least on the surface to protect minority* or more importantly, underpriveledged rights. i might tend to support such a system, if we could reform the other non-democratic aspects of US political system. * I don't see reasons to absolutely focus on minority rights if such are not being abused. Asian indians or japanese imigrants are a minority but seem to do quite well in the US. Why give a particular minority class special priviledges if they are as a class already quite priviledged? I'm not necessarily for or against minority protections. I brought up that example to counter your sweeping claim that one-man-one-vote was the standard for democracy when it clearly isn't. By the way, I'm still waiting for some examples of this standard. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: It's not so much a globbing on to power as it is a protection against the misuse of power by a majority. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, Again, I'm not a supporter of jerrymandering, but one of the most prevalent uses of jerrymandering of the past 40 years in the USA has been to protect a minority and provide them with an opportunity for electoral representation. I'm talking of course about the African-American community in which many, many districts are jerrymandered according to census tracks in order for the opportunity for majority or plurality Black votes to elect Black members of Congress. corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and sustained ways, I would give your arguments more credence and support. A proposal that would actually be in the direction of protecting minority rights (and one needs to first make a case that rights are being violated) would be to guarantee all native americans of 50% or greater NA heredity living on reservations 10-20 house seats. And perhaps 30 seats to all living below 15,000 / income. Then the structure would appear, at least on the surface to protect minority* or more importantly, underpriveledged rights. i might tend to support such a system, if we could reform the other non-democratic aspects of US political system. * I don't see reasons to absolutely focus on minority rights if such are not being abused. Asian indians or japanese imigrants are a minority but seem to do quite well in the US. Why give a particular minority class special priviledges if they are as a class already quite priviledged? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: It's not so much a globbing on to power as it is a protection against the misuse of power by a majority. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Orono Maine course
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Orono Maine course on 9/17/06 8:24 AM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now I remember, Tom Duffy. Very entertaining lecturer. I knew his ex Suzy years later. I see Tom twice a year. Hes doing great. Hes a real estate agent in New Hampshire. I also see Bobby Lees wife and son (at Amma events). His son looks a lot like him. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My first week long residence course was in Orono, 74 or 75 or maybe both. Charlie D was very intense but I really enjoyed his lectures. Where is he now, Amherst Mass? Northampton. I was working for an organization that raises money for political organizations, but that moved its offices. Now he just teaches some courses at local colleges. Did you give any general lectures Rick? I can't remember if I saw you there. I did a morning meeting including a checking session. Doug Henning had hitched up to Maine with a hot chick from his first Tonight Show appearance . He performed at the talent show. Funny I dont remember that. Summer of 73? Andy Kauffman gave a great performance. Had everyone dying of laughter. Jerry Jarvis also came. My initiator was Joe Smith, do you remember Joe and Carol from the early days? No. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop on 9/17/06 10:17 AM, new.morning at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: http://tinyurl.com/fehwp It looks like the Corleone Family compound on Long Island. And whats with that huge Northwest facing set of buildings -- not on the N/S axis like the other buildings (allowing huge east entrances) Thats an old monastery that has been there since pre-WWII. The Nazis used to use it. So did the TMO, until SV came along. The TMO wants to destroy it, but the locals wont let them. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/17/06 10:17 AM, new.morning at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: http://tinyurl.com/fehwp It looks like the Corleone Family compound on Long Island. And whats with that huge Northwest facing set of buildings -- not on the N/S axis like the other buildings (allowing huge east entrances) That¹s an old monastery that has been there since pre-WWII. The Nazis used to use it. So did the TMO, until SV came along. The TMO wants to destroy it, but the locals won¹t let them. ...which leads to an interesting question: Remember when the Taliban were in power in Afghanistan and they was an outcry from the world community when they bombed away those wonderful Buddhist faces on the side of a mountain? I wonder: were those Buddhist sculptures facing East or West? And am out of line drawing a parallel between what the Taliban did and what the TMO desires to do with the monastery? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Question for Rick
why can't your involvement with Amma be considered a religion? If it was, wouldn't that be the same as, say, being a Catholic...which would mean that the TMO couldn't have any objection to it? Where is the dividing line between a TMer giving another saint their business and practising a religion? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Margarine = Global Warming Fearmongering
Used to be that margarine was touted by science as the solution to cholesteral-packing heart-attack-creating butter. That was about 40 years ago. Today, it's the complete opposite: scientists tell us that margarine is one of the most unhealthy things to put in our bodies and to go back to butter. The global warming fearmongering going on now is today's margarine. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:05 PM, new.morning wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and sustained ways, I would give your arguments more credence and support. They don't, in fact institutions and practices like that do everything in their power to suppress minority rights and voices, something which Shemp supports wholeheartedly, since he is not directly affected. He uses those and other such arguments as diversionary tactics. Sal Sal: You remind me of Judy...without the I.Q. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Pope's recent speech the Muslims feel so agitated about is really very good. It is about the old historical connection Christianity in its essence has to reason due to strong Hellenistic influences from the times of the inception of Christianity. He also mentions that this adherence to reason has not always been a lived reality in Christianity especially during the Middle Ages. He states that Europe has got moulded to what it is nowadays under a strong influence of a Christian religion that sees God revealing himself as logos. In the beginning was the logos, and the logos is God, declares Evangelist John. In Islam the understanding the idea of likeness between our reason and that of God's is missing. There God's transcendence and otherness are so exalted that our reason, our sense of true and good are not an authentic mirror of God. The link: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/ documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html Irmeli Yep, nothing in that talk could be cnosidered an attack on Isalm or Maohammed... I mean, just because this is the keynote quote for his speech shouldn't be taken as a sign that he agrees with it. In fact, it is obvious that he does, despite any prevarication he may make now...: Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the core of the problem. Just so we know what we're talking about here, this is the quotation that has angered Muslims (from an AP report on Yahoo! News): In his speech on Tuesday, Benedict quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Christianity and Islam. 'The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war,' the pope said. 'He said, I quote, Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.' Whatever the truth of the last part of the sentence (and it's not quite the slam-dunk some seem to think), it's the first part that is so offensive to Muslims: the only new things Muhammad brought were evil and inhuman. It's not hard to grasp why that has aroused such fury. Imagine the wrath of Christians if a non- Christian were to say the only new things Jesus brought were evil and inhuman, citing, say, Jesus' instruction to hate one's father and mother! The big problem was that the pope *did not repudiate* the offensive part of the quote. He could have made his point about violent jihad just as well if he'd said to start with that he didn't condone the first part. It's too bad that slip (among others, but that was the worst) was so inflammatory that it was hard to hear the rest of what he said dispassionately. And he *still* hasn't apologized for it. All he's said is that he was sorry Muslims were offended by it. I just cannot see the speech as offensive. The quotation becomes offensive only, when it is taken out of the context of the whole speech. The pope is quoting a Christian Byzantine Emperor, who is trying to challenge an educated Persian by his claims and questions. I have very difficult to imagine that the Christians would feel deeply hurt and offended had the claim been made by a muslim about Christianity. Instead the Christians would have tried to defend their own view by answering to questions of the emperor and trying to refute his claims. We have also to remember what kind of audience this speech was given to. The pope is a former professor of theology, and he was invited to speak at the University of Regensburg. It is a scholarly speach for other scholars. Why do the muslims feel the need to control even what can be expressed in the academia of a western country? Irmeli To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just cannot see the speech as offensive. The quotation becomes offensive only, when it is taken out of the context of the whole speech. The pope is quoting a Christian Byzantine Emperor, who is trying to challenge an educated Persian by his claims and questions. I have very difficult to imagine that the Christians would feel deeply hurt and offended had the claim been made by a muslim about Christianity. It really depends who holds global power. Muslims feel under attack nowadays by Christians, so there is a strong tendency by Muslims to feel every slight, real or imagined, because it is the Christians who are in power. Those who would view this situation logically or dispassionately miss this point. There is a popular talk show host on TV in the USA, Dr. Phil McGraw, (Dr. Phil) who speaks about 'psychological sunburn'- a phenomenon whereby a person or group feel so upset about the practices of another, that even expressions that are not offensive, but that remind the upset group of abuse, are only dealt with by outbursts of violence and anger. The situation isn't helped any by those in the West who then point to this logically misplaced anger and declare the angry group as extremists and madmen. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Margarine = Global Warming Fearmongering
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Used to be that margarine was touted by science as the solution to cholesteral-packing heart-attack-creating butter. That was about 40 years ago. Today, it's the complete opposite: scientists tell us that margarine is one of the most unhealthy things to put in our bodies and to go back to butter. The global warming fearmongering going on now is today's margarine. This has prolly been up here already, but the melting of the permafrost is said to be one of the most alarming things at the moment: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18725124.500 I believe CO2 is almost nothing compared to methane (CH4) as a greenhouse gas. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Imagine the wrath of Christians if a non- Christian were to say the only new things Jesus brought were evil and inhuman, citing, say, Jesus' instruction to hate one's father and mother! The big problem was that the pope *did not repudiate* the offensive part of the quote. He could have made his point about violent jihad just as well if he'd said to start with that he didn't condone the first part. It's too bad that slip (among others, but that was the worst) was so inflammatory that it was hard to hear the rest of what he said dispassionately. And he *still* hasn't apologized for it. All he's said is that he was sorry Muslims were offended by it. I just cannot see the speech as offensive. The quotation becomes offensive only, when it is taken out of the context of the whole speech. The pope is quoting a Christian Byzantine Emperor, who is trying to challenge an educated Persian by his claims and questions. I have very difficult to imagine that the Christians would feel deeply hurt and offended had the claim been made by a muslim about Christianity. Instead the Christians would have tried to defend their own view by answering to questions of the emperor and trying to refute his claims. Some might; others would be outraged. And bear in mind that there's no one in Islam equivalent to the pope, with his power and influence and international status as a religious leader. We have also to remember what kind of audience this speech was given to. The pope is a former professor of theology, and he was invited to speak at the University of Regensburg. It is a scholarly speach for other scholars. Why do the muslims feel the need to control even what can be expressed in the academia of a western country? With his prominence as a public figure, the pope can't just give a scholarly speech for other scholars and expect it to stay within that context. Whatever he says is going to be widely reported and taken to be the official view of the Roman Catholic Church. Whether the quote was taken out of context or not, he should have known better than to use it without explicitly saying it didn't reflect his own views. That he did not do so makes him, at the very least, insensitive. That's just Public Relations 101. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Rtam bhara pragya
Someone asked: What is the TM/MMY-approved sanskrit word for intellect? In response, choices were offered: buddhi and pragya. Buddhi = intellect Pragya = sprouting (pra) of knowledge (gya - as in 'gyan') Rtam bhara pragya = that most subtle level where knowledge sprouts (1st appears) in only its radiant state of truth, where name and form are not yet separate, where knowledge is immediate and pure (not yet separated from the source), where intellect has hardly become individuated, where there is no gap between desiring to know something and knowing it, where the knowledge is, as if, inherent in the question or desire itself. Dr. Pete asked about how that rtam is experienced: It can be experienced in at least two ways: 1. When a specific desire for knowledge arises and is instantly and com- pletely fulfilled - no gap, no waiting, no partial answer, no lack. Complete identity of question/desire and answer/fulfillment. 2. As a more general experience of omniscience, of being omniscient, of sitting in that place where all knowledge is available, as you need it (even if no specific question/desire is arising at that moment). Maharishi Patanjali lists this second one as one of the final siddhis in the Yoga Sutras - the siddhi of omniscience and omnipotence (III-50). But first a little preface, before Patanjali takes the stage: Maharishi once told us an interesting thing. He said (paraphrased): It's not difficult to be established in the Self, sitting in some cave in the Himalayas. It's all silence there, nothing challenges the Self. But the real test of how well-established the Self is - is if it is maintained while you're sitting in a dirty taxi, stuck in a traffic jam in Manhattan, behind a fume-belching bus. Self-realization, he said, has to be tested, tempered, in the world of activity. Only then will the fear of losing it be dissolved. We have to see that nothing in the relative - no negativity, no emotion, no thought, no activity, no 'impurity', no pleasure, no pain - can challenge it. That's one motive for the expansion that leads Self-realization to ma- ture in God-realization (C.C. to G.C.) - to test the stability of the silent Self, to see if there's anything, any experience, that can bring it down. And the ultimate test is to experience the biggest possible experience, the experience of God/Goddess. Can the gripping power of that ultimate experience - that vastness, that divinity, that bliss, that intensity of activity, that fullness of power (omnipotence), that fullness of knowledge (omniscience) - challenge the Self? For an example of an overshadowing knowledge experience: Picture in the Gita, when Arjuna asks Lord Krishna to show Arjuna His true nature, His real form. Krishna opens His mouth and reveals to Arjuna the vision of the whole creation - infinite universes, every relative value from the darkest to the lightest, life/death, creation/ destruction... Imagine having that experience and not being oversha- dowed. To Arjuna, at that stage of his journey to full realization at the hands of Lord Krishna, it WAS overwhelming, and Arjuna begged Krishna to revert to his pleasant human form. Now think of that verse in Patanjali's Yoga Sutras (III-50), toward the end of all the siddhis, where he lays out the siddhi for omniscience and omnipotence, the ultimate siddhi (because if you have all know- ledge and all power you could do any other imaginable siddhi!). The experience of sitting in that place of omniscience and omnipotence is the experience of being God. You can DO anything or KNOW anything - instantly, effortlessly, at the slightest impulse of thought/desire. It is very tempting, very difficult to let go of, to come out of! Yet the next verse (III-51) says: By renunciation of that (omniscience and omnipotence) even, comes kaivalya (unity, peace) Imagine vol- untarilly giving up all power and all knowledge, of not being gripped by those, of not yielding to temptation even when offered to be God/God- dess. The Self, even when tempted by the ultimate in the world of boun- daries, stands firm in its dedication to remaining Self-referral. So the Self has to come out, play in the relative, establish it's stabi- lity in the face of anything in the relative, in order to take the final steps. The tender Self eventually has to become the bold Self. And rtam bhara pragya is a test of that boldness. Namaste, PARA - THE CENTER FOR REALIZATION and THE RELATIONSHIP INSTITUTE Michael Dean Goodman, Ph.D., D.D., Director Boca Raton (Palm Beach County) Florida 561-350-3930 (messages received 24 hours a day) * [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spiritual guide (ashtanga yoga/meditation, tantra, vedanta, ayur veda...) Counselor * Author * Speaker/Educator Satsang * Workshops Retreats * Classes * Private Educational Sessions Clients and programs throughout the United States, Europe, and India Working in person or by phone Free initial consultation to discuss
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi supports the Republicans
--- MDixon wrote: In a message dated 9/16/06 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I heard on the radio yesterday that public support for George W. Bush and the Republican Party is trending up, thanks in part to falling gasoline prices. When I heard that, I thought of all those rosy Age of Enlightenment News reports from the Global Country of World Peace, crediting TM superradiance with rising positivity. If those cause-effect correlations are valid, Maharishi is contributing to the re-election of Republicans in November's elections. So J, are you suggesting that dome numbers decrease so that the country might go to hell in a hand basket and people will take it out on the Republicans in November? No, I don't want that to happen. I'd rather see the country prosper and be healthy and peaceful, no matter who's in power. This is exactly what Rush has said for years, that the Democrats have set them selves up so that bad news for America is great news for them and great news for America is bad for them. I believe that's a warping of the Democratic message. As I hear it, the Democrats are saying, Republican policies will cause more problems than they solve. Then, when conditions go south, the Dems say, Told you so. The Republican agenda isn't good for the country. Instead, elect us. The Democrats may feel some schadenfreude over Republican missteps, but certainly nobody's gloating over the parlous state of the nation. Back to my post: as has been discussed by others, Maharishi originally said it doesn't matter who's in power if collective consciousness is high enough to generate coherent policies and support of nature in their execution. But then he started ranting about G.W. Bush being a rakshasa. My post was pointing up the irony that MMY's superradiance might save the Bush tush. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Intellect
peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, where does mind stop and intellect start? Any hard criteria? The mechanics of perception and discrimination that our intellect would LIKE us to believe in goes like this: sensory input comes in from the objective world, is registered by the mind and turned into thoughts, and the intellect objectively evaluates that input, dis- criminates, and makes intelligent decisions. But the mechanics of perception and discrimination that Maharishi laid out goes like this: first, we have a belief on the level of the heart, the faint feeling level, deeper than the intellect. That means that the heart has a feeling - an attraction or repulsion - then the whole rest of the individuality (the intellect, and its servants, the mind and senses) go out and FIND evidence to support, to validate, that belief. They ig- nore evidence that doesn't support that belief - that evidence, that sen- sory experience, that knowledge, that interpretation does not register. So it turns out that we're not objective at all. The intellect has been lying, and puffing up its own importance, by pretending to be objective and in charge, when really it's just a lackey for the heart. And, if we think about it, this makes sense based on our own experiences. When we love someone (or some place or some thing), we see the details about them, and interpret them through our love. They can do only good - their flaws are not flaws. But when they disappoint us and break up with us, although we keep seeing the same details about them, we interpret those through our anger. Now we are astounded that we ever saw all that goodness in them; now they can do no good. Even what we originally saw as their strengths are now seen as flaws. It's the same exact person (or place or thing) - but vastly different interpretation by our intel- lect - based on changes in our underlying feeling. That underlying feel- ing boldly flavors the (apparently) objective discriminative work of the intellect. When we have a deep personal belief, then even the strongest intellect will ignore logic and even ingore direct experience that invalidates that belief, and will use all of its skill to argue for the validity of that belief, and to find evidence to support that belief. There has been fascinating perceptual research that demonstrates this. Show a bunch of people a photo of a large room filled with hundreds of different objects and a number of people - and flash it in front of their eyes for just a fraction of a second. Then ask them to write down what they saw. Based on their beliefs and desires, they will have seen very different things. Same photo, but very different experiences. If one person was very hungry, then their perceptual machinery uncon- sciously sorts through everything in that fraction of a second and gloms on to items related to eating in some way. Hunger colors the objecti- vity of their perception. If another person had no need for food, but was feeling lonely, then their perceptual machinery sees the people in the photo (but not the food ob- jects). They would swear that there was little if any food in that pic- ture. Again, their desire colors their perception. If a third person had a deep belief (instead of a physical or emotional need), say the belief that men are wonderful teachers, then they'll re- member seeing the man in the photo, standing over a seated woman, with his hand raised to emphasize some point of knowledge he was lovingly sharing. If a fourth person had a deep belief that men are abusive, then they'll remember seeing that man in the photo, standing over a seated woman, with his hand raised to hit her. The intellect (and its servants, the mind and the senses) supports the heart. - Another angle, that more directly responds to your question, Peter: Katha Upanishad 3.10-11 Beyond the organs objects of perception are the subjective senses. Beyond the subjective senses is the mind. Beyond the mind is intellect. Beyond intellect is the individual self/ego/jiva/soul. Beyond the self/ego/jiva is the transcendental unmanifest Self. Beyond the transcendental unmanifest Self is the The Great (Brahman, Brihat). There is nothing beyond The Great. That is the limit, the highest that may be reached, the end of all suffering. In the subjective field of life: 1. The senses perceive. 2. The mind is subtler and receives those perceptions as thoughts. 3. The intellect is subtler yet and analyzes those thoughts. The intellect discriminates, compares, makes judgements. 4. The ego is subtler yet, the sense of individuality, the owner of the intellect, mind, and senses. Maharishi explained it once from the opposite direction - the emergence of the 8-fold nature of Prakriti, that inner subjective world which acts as the link or gap between Knower and Known, between Atma and vishwa. 1. There is wholeness - one,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Margarine = Global Warming Fearmongering
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Used to be that margarine was touted by science as the solution to cholesteral-packing heart-attack-creating butter. That was about 40 years ago. Today, it's the complete opposite: scientists tell us that margarine is one of the most unhealthy things to put in our bodies and to go back to butter. The global warming fearmongering going on now is today's margarine. Bollocks. It says it all. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Margarine = Global Warming Fearmongering
shempmcgurk wrote: Used to be that margarine was touted by science as the solution to cholesteral-packing heart-attack-creating butter. That was about 40 years ago. Today, it's the complete opposite: scientists tell us that margarine is one of the most unhealthy things to put in our bodies and to go back to butter. The global warming fearmongering going on now is today's margarine. Wishful thinking on your part? Just what do you have against trying to live in harmony with nature? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Margarine = Global Warming Fearmongering
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, uns_tressor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Used to be that margarine was touted by science as the solution to cholesteral-packing heart-attack-creating butter. That was about 40 years ago. Today, it's the complete opposite: scientists tell us that margarine is one of the most unhealthy things to put in our bodies and to go back to butter. The global warming fearmongering going on now is today's margarine. Bollocks. It says it all. Ever tried McDonald's Chicken McBollocks? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Google Maps Vlodrop on 9/17/06 1:55 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And am out of line drawing a parallel between what the Taliban did and what the TMO desires to do with the monastery? Not too far. There was a huge outcry in FF when MUM tore down the beautiful, historic chapel on campus (which faced slightly to the south). __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Question for Rick
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Question for Rick on 9/17/06 1:53 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why can't your involvement with Amma be considered a religion? If it was, wouldn't that be the same as, say, being a Catholic...which would mean that the TMO couldn't have any objection to it? Where is the dividing line between a TMer giving another saint their business and practising a religion? I think the main sticking points are that religions Are mainstream and the TMO wouldnt dare mess with them. Arent represented by a living master. Dont give out mantras and techniques that might interfere with TM. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Margarine = Global Warming Fearmongering
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shempmcgurk wrote: Used to be that margarine was touted by science as the solution to cholesteral-packing heart-attack-creating butter. That was about 40 years ago. Today, it's the complete opposite: scientists tell us that margarine is one of the most unhealthy things to put in our bodies and to go back to butter. The global warming fearmongering going on now is today's margarine. Wishful thinking on your part? Just what do you have against trying to live in harmony with nature? Mother Earth loves you. Mother Earth celebrates when you take of her bounty in order to fulfill your desires. She loves to give you the carbon-based materials she has spent eons creating so that you can drive your SUV to the park or your Mack Truck from point A to point B. Mother Earth is Gaia. She is a living organism and, as such, if some imbalance results from your partaking of her bounty, she is a self-correcting mechanism. Thank you, Exxon. Thank you, Mother Earth. Thank you for supplying us so plentifully with your spoils. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
