[FairfieldLife] Re: Your Brain on Schizophrenia

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Jul 17, 2008, at 10:28 PM, yifuxero wrote:
> 
> > ---Vaj: "it would follow, it would followit would follow...it
> > would follow"
> >  Really!  not,...not,...not,...
> 
> 
> Well, Ayurveda and Patanjali could be wrong.
>

Well,

nirmaaNa-cittaany *asmitaa-maatraat*

so, in Patañjali's view, "they" don't seem to be any kind of
astral beings, IMO.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Curtis,
> 
> What you write is funny -- and as Sal conveyed, its a mocking of
> ourselves in a "past life".  

I agree with Sal's description, BTW. And with
statements made by others over the years. When
I talk about "cult thinking," I'm including my
own past behavior in the descriptions.

> That said, your post made me think about religious tolerance. I mean
> few of us would poke fun at hasidic jews, buddhists, muslims, etc in
> traditional garb, or practice. Its more as if we think, "not for me,
> or not something I am familiar with, but you seem to thrive on it so
> more power to you bro". 

I tend to internally define 'cult' by the dict-
ionary definition, not the modern one. That is,
the term has no negative connotation *in itself*,
and only begins to when the autonomous religious
or spiritual group (which is all that a 'cult' is)
begins to display certain "them vs. us" or other
behaviors.

For example, presenting themselves one way in 
public and acting completely differently in private.
That is the issue I pointed to in the Gurupurnima
Celebration invitation. We all KNOW how it works.
We all KNOW from past experience that the person
or persons who wrote this will next week be making
the rounds of schools and governments and prisons
and other potential benefactors and describing TM
as secular and scientific and having no behavioral
or belief-oriented rules associated with it. As I
said earlier, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with 
these folks dressing up like wannabee Indians and
worshiping Hindu deities and toeing the misogynist
party line, if that gets them off. Hassidic Jews
and Muslims often do similar things, and should be
allowed to do so if that floats their boat. The
difference is that Hassidic Jews and Muslims don't
tend to pretend to be one thing in public and then
act completely different in private. 

> So where is the line between such -- and "cults". I mean I have 
> made my share of fun of scientologists, TBs, and all. Probably 
> not my best moments. 

In my opinion -- and again, to make it clear, all
I'm saying IS opinion -- that same area is where
the Scientologists went afoul. They claimed in public
the opposite of what they were doing on a daily basis
with the "Fair Game" policy in private. They were
doing "Fair Game" "hits" against Scientology critics
that were *fully sanctioned and supported by the
church* while claiming they weren't. "Fair Game" was
even spelled out in their DOGMA, in print, ferchris-
sakes. It's the hypocrisy thing that helps to turn
a 'dictionary cult' (just a group of people who share
the same belief system) into a 'modern cult' (a group
that has tendencies that many perceive to be not good
for its members and/or society). *Duplicity* when 
dealing with "them" is one of the first signs that
"them" has gone off the rails.

> But I am not clear -- where  is the line in the arena of religious
> (and ethnic) tolerance and diversity between respecting "wierd"
> practices and garb of some traditions, and making fun of others. 
> 
> I don't know.  

I don't know, either. I just find this whole subject
fascinating, because I can remember how many years
I bought into such things hook, line, and sinker. 
When I bailed from the TMO it was MUCH less of a 
'modern cult' than it is now, but it was too much 
of one for me; I could no longer handle the duplicity
I was being asked to practice on a daily basis. (In my
case, being a minor honcho in the US movement and 
being expected to go around to schools and governments
and tell them that TM had no rules and regulations and
behavioral components to it during the day, and then
at night watching groups of TM teacher *blackball*
fellow TMers and throw them out of the center or keep
them from attending courses because they had the wrong
books on their bookshelves or were living with their
G/F outside of marriage. It was a level of hypocrisy
I couldn't stomach, so I split.

And that was BEFORE the TMO went stark raving bonkers,
and started inventing imaginary countries and imaginary
"Rajas" who "ruled" those countries and started the
"export a poor pundit kid for world peace" business
and the "Scorpion Nation" stuff.

I think that there is a certain freedom in ADMITTING
the cult-like aspects of the trip one is part of, 
and in not living in denial of them. The folks here
who seem most well-adjusted have NO PROBLEM saying
that at one point in their lives they were part of
a group that had some 'modern cult' aspects to it.
They don't go ballistic trying to deny those cult
aspects or demonize those who talk about them. And
on the whole they seem a great deal happier and
balanced than the ones who DO deny those aspects
or make excuses for them or demonize those who
bring them up. 


> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > Oh Dark Lord, I have served thee faithfully in mocking the pure and
> > good TM movement (Now Vedic Con

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > I'm all for self-mockery, but I don't think that's what's going on
> > here, for the most part. 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> 
> Feste, you're all for "self mockery"? Really? Can you give some 
> examples as it relates to the TMO? Humor and the ability to laugh 
> at oneself are all important aspects of personal growth IMO.

I agree. And there WERE such things, but they tended
to be in private. I seem to remember you and I having
some pretty funny discussions when we both lived at
National, towards the end of our respective TM "careers."
We laughed our asses off at some of the antics that we
and others were being asked to perform. Remember your
record-cleaning ritual done while singing the puja?
That STILL cracks me up, all these years later.  :-)

But we laughed like this in private, because we knew 
what would happen to us if we did it publicly.

I completely agree with the basic premise -- a religious
or spiritual movement's "mental health" can be judged
pretty accurately by its ability to laugh at itself,
and at the very things it considers holy. When a group
can do that, it's still sane. When it veers into the
aberration of taking itself completely seriously, and
starts to persecute those who laugh at it, then there
is something wrong IMO.

[FairfieldLife] Cheap EEG headset -- could we write our own brain imagining software?

[TurquoiseB]

This article, on an upcoming thought-controlled computer
game, put me into scifi "think ahead" mode. If it is aimed
at gamers, the headset may well be affordable. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/17/thought-controlled-comput_n_113476.html

or 

http://tinyurl.com/5zr2r3

The OZ-based company is cool enough to have thought ahead
and provided a user-configurable interface that allows 
you to create a set of "thought commands" that will work
with other video games or even everyday applications.

http://emotiv.com/

If they're *really* cool (yet to be determined), they'll 
publish an API (application programming interface, for 
you non-programmers) for the headset, so that we can 
write our own software programs to interface with it, and
use the headset as input to those programs. (Even if they
don't, hackers will reverse-engineer the API within weeks
anyway, and make it available on Open Source forums.) Thus 
Vaj could write software to measure the things that he 
suspects are related to enlightenment or samadhi or mind-
fulness or "evolved brain functioning," and so could 
sparaig to measure the things that he thinks are related.

I could write a program that reacts to over-the-top silli-
ness like the recent Gurupurnima Celebration invitation 
with an appropriate snide (but hopefully funny) remark.

Judy (were she a programmer) could write stuff that auto-
reacts to her overreaction to any post critical of TM or 
Hillary or herself with a canned flame or parroting of
the appropriate bit of dogma. :-)

A whole new world of software is about to begin...

[FairfieldLife] Re: I quit -- question for Rick or the other moderators (since he's away)

[TurquoiseB]

Hey, Rick, Alex, gullible_fool, et al,

The following claim by Judy has me curious. Has anyone
unsubscribed or stalked off of FFL in a snit citing me 
as a reason "recently?"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> And if you look back, you'll find that more than
> anyone else on FFL, it's been Barry who has
> attempted--and frequently succeeded--in driving
> people off the forum. We recently lost an
> extremely valuable long-time poster because of
> Barry's nastiness and dishonesty.

I'm trying to figure out what on EARTH Judy could be
talking about here. Marek seems to be taking a break,
but he and I were on the best of terms last time I 
checked. And Jim's still finishing up his latest two
weeks in the "penalty box," so it can't be him she's 
referring to. 

The last person that I remember who stalked off in a 
snit citing me as a reason was Lou Valentino. And yes,
in that case, I plead guilty, and express some remorse.
I took Lou to task over some incredibly sexist and
misogynist things he said here, suggesting that this
'tude might explain his recent divorce, and he went
ballistic and unsubscribed. For the record, Lou, I
apologize for the personal inferences, but stand firm
on calling you on your misogynist bullshit.

But Lou bailed back in August 2007, hardly "recently."
Edg Duveyoung last posted back in May, but left with-
out a goodbye or stating a reason for taking off, as 
I remember.

But other than that, I really can't remember anyone
bailing from FFL citing my "nastiness and dishonesty" 
as a reason for bailing, especially "recently." If 
my memory is faulty, please clue me in so that I can 
post the appropriate "Mea culpas" and apologies. I 
*do* tend to be abrasive at times. 

If my memory isn't faulty, t'would seem that Judy felt 
the need to...uh...stretch the truth a bit (if not...
dare I say it...actually LIE) in the fervor of one of
her "Gotta Trash Barry" moments. I'll be interested to 
see what she has to say about this claim when she 
returns. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[Richard J. Williams]

TurquoiseB wrote:
> Something about this statement kept nagging
> at me, and I couldn't figure out what it was
> until now. 
> 
> It's that it displays an absolute ignorance
> of the nature of cults. A cult wouldn't HAVE
> to require a follower to attend one of its
> functions. A cult's control over its followers
> is such that they would WANT to attend, and
> believe that wanting to was their own idea.
>
"Lenz has claimed to be one of only twelve truly 
enlightened people on Earth. The enlightened 
twelve also, he claimed, included his dog Vayu."

Source:

Frederick Lenz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lenz

Titles of interest:

'Take Me For a Ride'
Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult
by Mark E. Laxer
Outer Rim Press, 1993 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> TurquoiseB wrote:
> > Something about this statement kept nagging
> > at me, and I couldn't figure out what it was
> > until now. 
> > 
> > It's that it displays an absolute ignorance
> > of the nature of cults. A cult wouldn't HAVE
> > to require a follower to attend one of its
> > functions. A cult's control over its followers
> > is such that they would WANT to attend, and
> > believe that wanting to was their own idea.
> >
> "Lenz has claimed to be one of only twelve truly 
> enlightened people on Earth. The enlightened 
> twelve also, he claimed, included his dog Vayu."

An enlightened dog! Cool! 

But could could Vayu levitate?

My dog has mastered the sidhi of getting people to 
do her bidding merely by moving her eyebrows.
Luckily, her desires are fully in accord with Natural
Law and they rarely amount to more than a biscuit or
walk in the park.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > TurquoiseB wrote:
> > > Something about this statement kept nagging
> > > at me, and I couldn't figure out what it was
> > > until now. 
> > > 
> > > It's that it displays an absolute ignorance
> > > of the nature of cults. A cult wouldn't HAVE
> > > to require a follower to attend one of its
> > > functions. A cult's control over its followers
> > > is such that they would WANT to attend, and
> > > believe that wanting to was their own idea.
> > 
> > "Lenz has claimed to be one of only twelve truly 
> > enlightened people on Earth. The enlightened 
> > twelve also, he claimed, included his dog Vayu."
> 
> An enlightened dog! Cool! 
> 
> But could could Vayu levitate?

Not that I ever witnessed. :-)

But Vayu was a pretty cool dog. Lenz had a 
somewhat odd relationship with him (he sup-
posedly was very depressed when Vayu died,
and he himself died wearing Vayu's collar
as a kind of tribute to his good -- and some
would say only -- friend), but he was really
a neat dog. 

Black Scottie, with all of the wonderful and
not-so-wonderful traits of a Scottie. *Very*
independent, not in the least clingy or over-
dependent on his "human pet" (Lenz) for company 
or attention. 

I personally suspect that Lenz's rating of 
Vayu as enlightened was as questionable as 
his rating of himself in that category, but
he was a cool dog, and a very sensitive per-
ceiver. I remember one night in a lecture,
Vayu was running around the lecture hall while
Lenz talked, and a number of people were stand-
ing up in a line at the front of the room as
he talked to them about some things. One fellow,
who hadn't eaten all day, suddenly felt faint 
and keeled over without a sound. Vayu was in 
the back of the room, as a matter of fact hav-
ing his ears scritched by me, and was facing 
in the other direction.

*As the guy was still falling*, before he hit
the ground, Vayu whipped his head around and
started running for the front of the room. He
got to the fellow who had fainted and "stood
guard" over him until one of the doctors helped
him to revive. Neat thing to see.

> My dog has mastered the sidhi of getting people to 
> do her bidding merely by moving her eyebrows.

One of mine performs that siddhi by lifting his 
ears and training his big Grommit-like eyes on 
you. The other "noses" me until I give in. :-)

> Luckily, her desires are fully in accord with Natural
> Law and they rarely amount to more than a biscuit or
> walk in the park.

Yeah, they are really simple creatures to please,
aren't they? I have learned a great deal about 
life from my dogs. I suspect that Lenz did as
well.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[Peter]

--- On Thu, 7/17/08, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar:  Do nothing since 
> everything will happen anyway.
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 7:23 AM
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > From: yifuxero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Oh, crap. When push comes to shove, even the guy
> who spent 3 
> > > hours (and 30+ years) saying there's nothing
> to do that will 
> > > get you where you think you want to go, gives
> something to do 
> > > to get you there! 
> > > Hmmm
> > 
> > Such abstractly correct, but practical bullshit from
> Ramesh. 
> > This is Neo-Advaita at its absolute worst. It serves
> no purpose 
> > to create a conceptual model of realization for
> someone in waking 
> > state. All it leads to is a lack of yogic discipline
> and lack of 
> > realization. What he is talking about is very true for
> a realized 
> > person, but absolutely false for someone in waking
> state. He needs 
> > to be beaten with a stick!
> 
> A stick wielded by whores wearing pants and with
> their heads uncovered who are having their periods
> no less. That'd show him!!!
> 
> :-)
> 
> You make an excellent point about the NeoAdvaita
> crap, Peter. While what this asshole says may be
> accurate and useful information spoken *from* the 
> POV of realization *to* the POV of realization, it
> is inaccurate and detrimental when spoken to anyone 
> else.

I've always noted a very clear distinction between how Ramana Maharishi spoke 
and how other "lessor" advaita advocates speak. Ramana never tried to build a 
conceptual model for the minds entertainment, but these other guys do and it is 
not helpful at all. 




 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

  

[FairfieldLife] 'Progress Expected w/ New Iranian Talks'

[Robert]

ANKARA, Turkey - Iran's Foreign Minister said Friday that forthcoming nuclear 
talks in Geneva and the participation of a U.S. diplomat for the first time 
look positive and he expects progress. 
U.S. Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs William Burns was expected 
to attend the talks in Geneva on Saturday — the first time the U.S. has had 
such a presence — and join colleagues from other world powers to meet with 
Iran's chief nuclear negotiator.
"The new negotiation process (and) the participation of a U.S. diplomat look 
positive from the outset, but we hope that is reflected in the talks," Mottaki 
told a joint news conference with Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan.
He said the presence of U.S. representative "is a new positive approach."
Meanwhile, Burns met Friday for about 20 minutes with International Atomic 
Energy Agency head Mohamed Elbaradei to discuss Iran's contentious atompic 
program. He did not speak to reporters before leaving.
The U.S. has shifted from its confrontational policy of isolating Iran in favor 
of a diplomatic approach.
The U.S. administration is also floating a proposal to open a de facto U.S. 
Embassy in Tehran. U.S. diplomats would go to Iran for the first time in almost 
30 years, since the countries broke relations after the 1979 Islamic revolution
"I think there might be an agreement both on the issue of opening a U.S. 
interest protection bureau in Iran and on the issue of direct flights to Iran," 
Mottaki said.
The six-nation group — the group of five permanent members of the U.N. Security 
Council: Britain, China, France, Russia, the U.S. and Germany — has offered 
Iran incentives to halt activities that could lead to development of nuclear 
weapons.
U.S. officials say Burns will be listening, not negotiating, at the meeting 
that they insist is a "one-time event." But his mere presence signals a 
significant change in Bush's approach toward Iran, a charter member of what he 
termed the "axis of evil" in 2002.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Thursday that "the United States 
is firmly behind this diplomacy, firmly behind and unified with our allies and 
hopefully the Iranians will take that message."
Washington insists it will not negotiate with Iran as it has with North Korea 
until Tehran halts enriching and reprocessing uranium. But it is supporting an 
effort led by European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana that would 
allow early talks with others in the six-nation group before such a step.
Iran has rebuffed the attempt to persuade it to stop enrichment and 
reprocessing, which can produce the key ingredient for atomic weapons, and 
insists its nuclear program is designed only to produce electric power. Others, 
particularly the United States and Israel, maintain it is a cover for weapons 
development.
As part of its diplomatic efforts, the U.S. administration is also floating a 
proposal to open a de-facto U.S. Embassy in Tehran. U.S. diplomats would go to 
Iran for the first time in almost 30 years, since the countries broke relations 
after the 1979 Islamic revoluqtion.
Mottaki, however, insisted on specifically calling a U.S. mission "a U.S. 
interest-protection bureau," instead of a diplomatic mission.
Turkey, a close U.S. ally, supports Iran's right to develop nuclear energy for 
peaceful use but calls on Tehran to be transparent about its controversial 
nuclear program.


  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- On Thu, 7/17/08, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > You make an excellent point about the NeoAdvaita
> > crap, Peter. While what this asshole says may be
> > accurate and useful information spoken *from* the 
> > POV of realization *to* the POV of realization, it
> > is inaccurate and detrimental when spoken to anyone 
> > else.
> 
> I've always noted a very clear distinction between how 
> Ramana Maharishi spoke and how other "lessor" advaita 
> advocates speak. Ramana never tried to build a conceptual 
> model for the minds entertainment, but these other guys 
> do and it is not helpful at all. 

Ah, a worthy subject for my last post of the week. :-)

I agree with you completely that speaking all of 
the time from the POV of NeoAdvaita realization is
not a favor to the students, and can in fact be
detrimental because it can lead them to moodmake
their own realization instead of actually *having*
realizations. I also agree with you that using this
NeoAdvaita-speak to build conceptual models for the
mind's entertainment is a classically Bad Idea, and
just traps the minds of the students in Yet Another
Conceptual Model.

HOWEVER, having experienced it, I can see a point in
speaking this way -- realized soul to realized soul --
*every so often*, when the situation warrants it. If
the teacher is advanced enough to recognize when one
of his or her students is on the "cusp" of a realiz-
ation, speaking to them this way can "push them over
the edge" and "facilitate" that realization.

I've seen this happen in a Zen context (with koans)
and in a NeoAdvaita context (in a satsang session).
*For whatever reason*, the teacher noticed that the
student was in a particularly receptive state, having
one of these "cusp" moments. And so the teacher chose
to talk to the student as a complete *equal*, as some-
one who was just as realized as the teacher was. 

I liken it to the meaning of the "Namaste" greeting: 
"The infinity within me greets the infinite within you." 
When this happened and the teacher started talking to 
the student *as if he were already enlightened*, the 
student had a breakthrough, and realized that he was, 
and always had been.

It's an interesting thing to see, and an even more
interesting phenomenon to experience. So I remain open
to this kind of language having a value AT TIMES,
and in the right situation. 

The problem is that many of the NeoAdvaitan teachers
don't seem to know when those right situations present
themselves, and lazily get into talking this way at
all times, when it is NOT appropriate. Doing so creates
more confusion than enlightenment in my opinion.

And that's it for me...outa here until tomorrow...

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[Peter]

--- On Fri, 7/18/08, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar:  Do nothing since 
> everything will happen anyway.
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 9:13 AM
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/17/08, TurquoiseB
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > You make an excellent point about the NeoAdvaita
> > > crap, Peter. While what this asshole says may be
> > > accurate and useful information spoken *from* the
> 
> > > POV of realization *to* the POV of realization,
> it
> > > is inaccurate and detrimental when spoken to
> anyone 
> > > else.
> > 
> > I've always noted a very clear distinction between
> how 
> > Ramana Maharishi spoke and how other
> "lessor" advaita 
> > advocates speak. Ramana never tried to build a
> conceptual 
> > model for the minds entertainment, but these other
> guys 
> > do and it is not helpful at all. 
> 
> Ah, a worthy subject for my last post of the week. :-)
> 
> I agree with you completely that speaking all of 
> the time from the POV of NeoAdvaita realization is
> not a favor to the students, and can in fact be
> detrimental because it can lead them to moodmake
> their own realization instead of actually *having*
> realizations. I also agree with you that using this
> NeoAdvaita-speak to build conceptual models for the
> mind's entertainment is a classically Bad Idea, and
> just traps the minds of the students in Yet Another
> Conceptual Model.
> 
> HOWEVER, having experienced it, I can see a point in
> speaking this way -- realized soul to realized soul --
> *every so often*, when the situation warrants it. If
> the teacher is advanced enough to recognize when one
> of his or her students is on the "cusp" of a
> realiz-
> ation, speaking to them this way can "push them over
> the edge" and "facilitate" that realization.
> 
> I've seen this happen in a Zen context (with koans)
> and in a NeoAdvaita context (in a satsang session).
> *For whatever reason*, the teacher noticed that the
> student was in a particularly receptive state, having
> one of these "cusp" moments. And so the teacher
> chose
> to talk to the student as a complete *equal*, as some-
> one who was just as realized as the teacher was. 
> 
> I liken it to the meaning of the "Namaste"
> greeting: 
> "The infinity within me greets the infinite within
> you." 
> When this happened and the teacher started talking to 
> the student *as if he were already enlightened*, the 
> student had a breakthrough, and realized that he was, 
> and always had been.
> 
> It's an interesting thing to see, and an even more
> interesting phenomenon to experience. So I remain open
> to this kind of language having a value AT TIMES,
> and in the right situation. 
> 
> The problem is that many of the NeoAdvaitan teachers
> don't seem to know when those right situations present
> themselves, and lazily get into talking this way at
> all times, when it is NOT appropriate. Doing so creates
> more confusion than enlightenment in my opinion.
> 
> And that's it for me...outa here until tomorrow...

Agree with you completely. This "advaita-speak" can be very powerful when used 
as a tool for experiential openings in awareness, but I rarely see it used that 
way. 




> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> >
> > Curtis,
> > 
> > What you write is funny -- and as Sal conveyed, its a mocking of
> > ourselves in a "past life".  
> 
> I agree with Sal's description, BTW. And with
> statements made by others over the years. When
> I talk about "cult thinking," I'm including my
> own past behavior in the descriptions.
> 
> > That said, your post made me think about religious tolerance. I mean
> > few of us would poke fun at hasidic jews, buddhists, muslims, etc in
> > traditional garb, or practice. Its more as if we think, "not for me,
> > or not something I am familiar with, but you seem to thrive on it so
> > more power to you bro". 
> 
> I tend to internally define 'cult' by the dict-
> ionary definition, not the modern one. That is,
> the term has no negative connotation *in itself*,
> and only begins to when the autonomous religious
> or spiritual group (which is all that a 'cult' is)
> begins to display certain "them vs. us" or other
> behaviors.
> 
> For example, presenting themselves one way in 
> public and acting completely differently in private.
> That is the issue I pointed to in the Gurupurnima
> Celebration invitation. We all KNOW how it works.
> We all KNOW from past experience that the person
> or persons who wrote this will next week be making
> the rounds of schools and governments and prisons
> and other potential benefactors and describing TM
> as secular and scientific and having no behavioral
> or belief-oriented rules associated with it. As I
> said earlier, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with 
> these folks dressing up like wannabee Indians and
> worshiping Hindu deities and toeing the misogynist
> party line, if that gets them off. Hassidic Jews
> and Muslims often do similar things, and should be
> allowed to do so if that floats their boat. The
> difference is that Hassidic Jews and Muslims don't
> tend to pretend to be one thing in public and then
> act completely different in private. 
> 
> > So where is the line between such -- and "cults". I mean I have 
> > made my share of fun of scientologists, TBs, and all. Probably 
> > not my best moments. 
> 
> In my opinion -- and again, to make it clear, all
> I'm saying IS opinion -- that same area is where
> the Scientologists went afoul. They claimed in public
> the opposite of what they were doing on a daily basis
> with the "Fair Game" policy in private. They were
> doing "Fair Game" "hits" against Scientology critics
> that were *fully sanctioned and supported by the
> church* while claiming they weren't. "Fair Game" was
> even spelled out in their DOGMA, in print, ferchris-
> sakes. It's the hypocrisy thing that helps to turn
> a 'dictionary cult' (just a group of people who share
> the same belief system) into a 'modern cult' (a group
> that has tendencies that many perceive to be not good
> for its members and/or society). *Duplicity* when 
> dealing with "them" is one of the first signs that
> "them" has gone off the rails.
> 
> > But I am not clear -- where  is the line in the arena of religious
> > (and ethnic) tolerance and diversity between respecting "wierd"
> > practices and garb of some traditions, and making fun of others. 
> > 
> > I don't know.  
> 
> I don't know, either. I just find this whole subject
> fascinating, because I can remember how many years
> I bought into such things hook, line, and sinker. 
> When I bailed from the TMO it was MUCH less of a 
> 'modern cult' than it is now, but it was too much 
> of one for me; I could no longer handle the duplicity
> I was being asked to practice on a daily basis. (In my
> case, being a minor honcho in the US movement and 
> being expected to go around to schools and governments
> and tell them that TM had no rules and regulations and
> behavioral components to it during the day, and then
> at night watching groups of TM teacher *blackball*
> fellow TMers and throw them out of the center or keep
> them from attending courses because they had the wrong
> books on their bookshelves or were living with their
> G/F outside of marriage. It was a level of hypocrisy
> I couldn't stomach, so I split.
> 
> And that was BEFORE the TMO went stark raving bonkers,
> and started inventing imaginary countries and imaginary
> "Rajas" who "ruled" those countries and started the
> "export a poor pundit kid for world peace" business
> and the "Scorpion Nation" stuff.
> 
> I think that there is a certain freedom in ADMITTING
> the cult-like aspects of the trip one is part of, 
> and in not living in denial of them. The folks here
> who seem most well-adjusted have NO PROBLEM saying
> that at one point in their lives they were part of
> a group that had some 'modern cult' aspects to it.
> They don't go ballistic trying to deny those cult
> aspects or demonize those who talk about them. And
> on the whole they seem a great deal happier and
> balanced than the one

[FairfieldLife] Re: Your Brain on Schizophrenia

[feste37]

That's a bit like saying eating apples would most likely not cause
cancer. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> TM sidhis would most likely not cause schizophrenia, 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[feste37]

Delighted to oblige. I would love to go to the celebration today, but
unfortunately leather belts are not permitted and I need one to hold
my trousers up. I would hate to embarrass myself in front of the
ladies on such a dignified occasion. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > I'm all for self-mockery, but I don't think that's what's going on
> > here, for the most part. 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> 
> Feste, you're all for "self mockery"? Really? Can you give some
examples as it relates to the 
> TMO? Humor and the ability to laugh at oneself are all important
aspects of personal growth 
> IMO.
>

[FairfieldLife] 'Obama Backers- Have more Shakti...'

[Robert]

McCain's backers less fired up than Obama'sBy ALAN FRAM, Associated Press 
Writer 
WASHINGTON (AP) — John McCain is facing an excitement deficit.
While overall interest in the presidential campaign has swelled since last 
fall, backers of Barack Obama are more fired up and express more loyalty to 
their candidate than McCain's do, a poll by The Associated Press and Yahoo News 
showed Friday. In addition, individual groups backing Obama — 
African-Americans, Democrats and liberals — are more enthusiastic than whites, 
Republicans and conservatives, who are more aligned with McCain, the GOP 
senator from Arizona.
Obama faces hurdles of his own. The poll shows lagging fervor for the 
Democratic senator from Illinois by supporters of his vanquished rival, Hillary 
Rodham Clinton. And there are lots of dispirited and undecided independents, 
who are expected to be pivotal on an Election Day now less then four months off.
The passion and interest shown by blocs of voters are important because they 
affect who will be motivated to vote. For now, the numbers favor Obama: 38 
percent of his supporters say the election is exciting compared to 9 percent of 
McCain's. Sixty-five percent of Obama's backers say they are hopeful about the 
campaign, double McCain's, and the Democrat's supporters are three times 
likelier to express pride.
"Being African-American, you know, I do have some biases," said John Douglas, 
67, of Villa Rica, Ga., an Obama supporter. He said the pride and thrill he 
feels about the possibility of the first black president "has been building up 
for my lifetime, it's been building up since the inception of our country."
Half of McCain's supporters say the race makes them frustrated, more than 
double Obama's backers who say so. By 2-to-1 or more, McCain backers are 
likelier than Obama's to say the campaign makes them bored, angry and helpless. 
And while 16 percent of those preferring Obama say they may change their 
candidate, 24 percent of McCain's say they might do the same.
"I don't feel I have a choice I can really get behind," said Carol Hall, 63, a 
Republican from Yorktown, Va., who prefers McCain but said he isn't 
conservative enough, yet doesn't trust Obama. "I think they're pitiful choices."
The AP-Yahoo News poll, conducted by Knowledge Networks, has measured the 
political sentiments of the same 2,000 adults since November. While 45 percent 
expressed a great deal or quite a bit of interest in the campaign back then, 60 
percent say so now, but it's Obama supporters whose energy has grown more:
— More than twice as many Democrats than Republicans have gotten more excited 
about the campaign since the fall, 22 percent to 9 percent. Forty-seven percent 
of Republicans and 29 percent of Democrats express frustration.
— Blacks are three times likelier than whites to be more excited about the 
election than they were last fall, 33 percent to 11 percent. They are also six 
times likelier to be more proud, 43 percent to 7 percent, and twice as likely 
to be more interested and hopeful. Right now, 44 percent of whites and just 11 
percent of blacks say the election frustrates them, and whites are far likelier 
to say they feel angry and helpless.
— Liberals are three times likelier than conservatives to be more excited than 
they were and twice as likely to be more proud. Nineteen percent of 
conservatives feel more helpless, compared to 9 percent of liberals.
— Overall, 44 percent of Obama voters have grown more interested in the 
campaign since the fall, compared to 35 percent of McCain's. Currently, seven 
in 10 Obama backers say the campaign interests them, as do six in 10 of 
McCain's.
"It's exciting because it looks like we've got a winner," said Susan Gates, 55, 
a Democrat from Chelmsford, Mass.
All Democrats don't feel that way. Overall, 31 percent of those supporting 
Obama are Democrats who preferred Clinton during the party's prolonged primary 
battle this spring, and they are less enthused than those who have backed Obama 
longer.
Just 12 percent of former Clinton supporters say they are excited about the 
campaign, one-third the excitement level among Obama's longer-term backers. A 
fifth of them say the election makes them feel frustrated and helpless, and 
about as many say they may still change their minds, double the number of 
longtime Obama loyalists who say that.
"I was really hoping Hillary would pull it off," said Doreen Malinoski, 42, of 
Montclair, Calif., a Democrat who said she is uneasy with Obama's calls for 
change. "I mean, this is the best we can come up with?"
Independents, whom both McCain and Obama are avidly pursuing, remain 
underwhelmed. Only 21 percent find the election interesting — down from 31 
percent in November — and just 7 percent say it's exciting. Substantial numbers 
say they feel frustrated, helpless and even bored.
Independents are about evenly divided between the two candidates, with about a 
quarter behind each. Four in 10 remain undecid

[FairfieldLife] Re: Your Brain on Schizophrenia

[aztjbailey]

Treatment with light:





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1034936/Dementia-patient-makes\
-amazing-progress-using-infrared-helmet.html?ITO=1490



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is your brain on schizophrenia.
>
> Wouldn't it be interesting to follow a TM Sidha trance channeler's
> brain (or just a TM sidha) and see if the damage is similar?
>
> Pretty shocking video.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/health/healthguide/
> TE_SCHIZOPHRENIA_FEATURE.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
>
> Link
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> embodiment of all that is greatest.  

Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru and Maharishi is the
movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing greater than
Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you are!

He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.

> We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> shorter time.

He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some people
too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe that there
was nothing greater than him?  That people were achieving
"enlightenment" in a sorter time.  That all people in history were
searching for what he was offering?  That he alone in history was able
to offer it to the world rather than a small group?

Still working on those question.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Maharishi's 20th July 2005 Press Conference
> 
> Excerpt on the role of the Guru:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dr Hagelin:  Maharishi, there is a question on 
> the special role of the teacher, the Guru, in 
> gaining the full awakening of enlightenment. The 
> reporter asks, "In every news conference, 
> Maharishi pays tribute to his teacher and to the 
> tradition of Vedic teachers for giving the 
> knowledge and technique of Transcendental 
> Meditation to gain enlightenment. Is the 
> technique of Transcendental Meditation and other 
> advanced programmes sufficient to gain 
> enlightenment, or is there an indispensable role 
> that a teacher plays to guide an individual on 
> the path to enlightenment? And if so, what would 
> that role be?"
> 
> Maharishi: The role is that the teacher is 
> absolutely woven into this knowledge. And when 
> the knowledge is in our awareness, it is the 
> total teacher that is in our awareness. It says 
> in the Vedic Literature about the teacher, "Na 
> Guror Adhikam, Na Guror Adhikam, Na Guror 
> Adhikam." There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> embodiment of all that is greatest.   
> 
> Guru is Brahm. Gurur Brahma, Gurur Vishnur. These 
> are not the words of adoration; this is the 
> description of the reality of Guru. Guru is on 
> the level of Totality personified. When Guru 
> speaks, it is the Totality that speaks. Words of 
> the Guru are the words of the Veda. Veda is only 
> heard from the Guru. So Guru means the Totality. 
> If one is in the sense of Guru all the time, one 
> is in the sense of total Natural Law and its 
> total organizing power; there is nothing greater 
> than that.   
> 
> That is why Guru is completely natural in our 
> awareness. It is not a matter of anything that is 
> from outside or anything. It is completely 
> natural. It is simple. It is Totality. It is a 
> great thing. One knows it in being that level of 
> relationship. "Na Guror Adhikam"-there is nothing 
> greater than Guru, nothing greater than Guru.   
> 
> Guru Purnima is the Full Moon of the Guru-one day 
> of the year. In the Vedic Calendar, each day is 
> attributed to some Devata, to some special 
> creative intelligence-Sun, Moon, Shiva, Vishnu, 
> and all. There are an enormous number of Devatas, 
> embodiments of the Kriya Shakti. "Kriya Shakti" 
> is the power of action. There are two things, 
> basically: the silence and action, silence and 
> activity, infinite silence and infinite activity, 
> and both in perfect accord with each other. 
> Perfect silence, perfect dynamism: this is 
> Brahm-this is Totality.   
> 
> The Guru is Totality. He has, as it is said in 
> the Vedic Literature and with reference to what 
> Dr John Hagelin just said, "Pripad Asyamritam 
> Divi." That means three-fourths is Amrit. "Amrit" 
> means eternal. Three-fourths is eternal; 
> one-fourth is juggling around.   
> 
> Three-fourths is eternal. This is what makes us 
> stand on our own feet eternally. We are embedded 
> in the three-fourths of the unmanifest, as Dr 
> Hagelin said. This unmanifest, this Avyakta, is 
> three-fourths, and the manifest is one-fourth. 
> Three-fourths is unmanifest; one-fourth is 
> manifest. The changes take place in the 
> unmanifest. What continues in the field of flow 
> is three-fourths. So the dominant factor is 
> three-fourths of Totality. . . . Reality belongs 
> to the non-changing eternity, absolute eternity, 
> absolute.   This whole thing is very real. The 
> other day, I talked some about this-the Absolute 
> Number. Today, reference was made to the number. 
> The Absolute Number is that which guides the 
> equations of Brahman Consciousness-how life is 
> lived in relativity, even though saturated with 
> absolute value.   
> 
> The absolute value means the togetherness of 
> silence and dynamism together. Together dynamism 

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Obama Backers- Have more Shakti...'

[do.rflex]

McCain rally gets out of control. Photo: http://tinyurl.com/5aoutg  



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> McCain's backers less fired up than Obama'sBy ALAN FRAM, Associated
Press Writer 
> WASHINGTON (AP) — John McCain is facing an excitement deficit.
> While overall interest in the presidential campaign has swelled
since last fall, backers of Barack Obama are more fired up and express
more loyalty to their candidate than McCain's do, a poll by The
Associated Press and Yahoo News showed Friday. In addition, individual
groups backing Obama — African-Americans, Democrats and liberals — are
more enthusiastic than whites, Republicans and conservatives, who are
more aligned with McCain, the GOP senator from Arizona.
> Obama faces hurdles of his own. The poll shows lagging fervor for
the Democratic senator from Illinois by supporters of his vanquished
rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton. And there are lots of dispirited and
undecided independents, who are expected to be pivotal on an Election
Day now less then four months off.
> The passion and interest shown by blocs of voters are important
because they affect who will be motivated to vote. For now, the
numbers favor Obama: 38 percent of his supporters say the election is
exciting compared to 9 percent of McCain's. Sixty-five percent of
Obama's backers say they are hopeful about the campaign, double
McCain's, and the Democrat's supporters are three times likelier to
express pride.
> "Being African-American, you know, I do have some biases," said John
Douglas, 67, of Villa Rica, Ga., an Obama supporter. He said the pride
and thrill he feels about the possibility of the first black president
"has been building up for my lifetime, it's been building up since the
inception of our country."
> Half of McCain's supporters say the race makes them frustrated, more
than double Obama's backers who say so. By 2-to-1 or more, McCain
backers are likelier than Obama's to say the campaign makes them
bored, angry and helpless. And while 16 percent of those preferring
Obama say they may change their candidate, 24 percent of McCain's say
they might do the same.
> "I don't feel I have a choice I can really get behind," said Carol
Hall, 63, a Republican from Yorktown, Va., who prefers McCain but said
he isn't conservative enough, yet doesn't trust Obama. "I think
they're pitiful choices."
> The AP-Yahoo News poll, conducted by Knowledge Networks, has
measured the political sentiments of the same 2,000 adults since
November. While 45 percent expressed a great deal or quite a bit of
interest in the campaign back then, 60 percent say so now, but it's
Obama supporters whose energy has grown more:
> — More than twice as many Democrats than Republicans have gotten
more excited about the campaign since the fall, 22 percent to 9
percent. Forty-seven percent of Republicans and 29 percent of
Democrats express frustration.
> — Blacks are three times likelier than whites to be more excited
about the election than they were last fall, 33 percent to 11 percent.
They are also six times likelier to be more proud, 43 percent to 7
percent, and twice as likely to be more interested and hopeful. Right
now, 44 percent of whites and just 11 percent of blacks say the
election frustrates them, and whites are far likelier to say they feel
angry and helpless.
> — Liberals are three times likelier than conservatives to be more
excited than they were and twice as likely to be more proud. Nineteen
percent of conservatives feel more helpless, compared to 9 percent of
liberals.
> — Overall, 44 percent of Obama voters have grown more interested in
the campaign since the fall, compared to 35 percent of McCain's.
Currently, seven in 10 Obama backers say the campaign interests them,
as do six in 10 of McCain's.
> "It's exciting because it looks like we've got a winner," said Susan
Gates, 55, a Democrat from Chelmsford, Mass.
> All Democrats don't feel that way. Overall, 31 percent of those
supporting Obama are Democrats who preferred Clinton during the
party's prolonged primary battle this spring, and they are less
enthused than those who have backed Obama longer.
> Just 12 percent of former Clinton supporters say they are excited
about the campaign, one-third the excitement level among Obama's
longer-term backers. A fifth of them say the election makes them feel
frustrated and helpless, and about as many say they may still change
their minds, double the number of longtime Obama loyalists who say that.
> "I was really hoping Hillary would pull it off," said Doreen
Malinoski, 42, of Montclair, Calif., a Democrat who said she is uneasy
with Obama's calls for change. "I mean, this is the best we can come
up with?"
> Independents, whom both McCain and Obama are avidly pursuing, remain
underwhelmed. Only 21 percent find the election interesting — down
from 31 percent in November — and just 7 percent say it's exciting.
Substantial numbers say they feel frustrated, helpless and even 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm all for self-mockery, but I don't think that's what's going on
> > > here, for the most part. 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > 
> > Feste, you're all for "self mockery"? Really? Can you give some 
> > examples as it relates to the TMO? Humor and the ability to laugh 
> > at oneself are all important aspects of personal growth IMO.
> 
> I agree. And there WERE such things, but they tended
> to be in private. I seem to remember you and I having
> some pretty funny discussions when we both lived at
> National, towards the end of our respective TM "careers."
> We laughed our asses off at some of the antics that we
> and others were being asked to perform. Remember your
> record-cleaning ritual done while singing the puja?
> That STILL cracks me up, all these years later.  :-)
> 
> But we laughed like this in private, because we knew 
> what would happen to us if we did it publicly.
> 
> I completely agree with the basic premise -- a religious
> or spiritual movement's "mental health" can be judged
> pretty accurately by its ability to laugh at itself,
> and at the very things it considers holy. When a group
> can do that, it's still sane. When it veers into the
> aberration of taking itself completely seriously, and
> starts to persecute those who laugh at it, then there
> is something wrong IMO.
>

FWIW, my experience was that there was a deep sense of humor in the
60's and early 70's. Organizational paradoxes would inspire laughter
and sweet jokes from Jerry -- and MMY. And a whole host of other
leaders as I recall. 

Some of the regional coordinators were pretty funny and could really
rip into things -- but in an endearing way. For example, I enjoyed
being able to spend a little bit of time with Joe Clarke, and a few of
his posse, including time on some long drives and walks. It was sort
of petal to the metal humor. 

One theme was how only Tom Wolfe (present day one) -- in style of
"Elect4ric Kool-Aid Acid Test" would be able to adequately capture the
craziness, insanity and paradoxes of the organization.  With lots of
examples of such flying around -- with hoots of fall-down laughter. As
well as celebrating the weird-ass antics of some.  Not mocking them,
but it was inclusional humor -- like "this is one of our crazy family
members -- ain't it great! Ain't life full, rich and wonderful." (and
this was totally non- bliss ninny style).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[Richard J. Williams]

> Oh, crap. When push comes to shove, even the 
> guy who spent 3 hours (and 30+ years) saying 
> there's nothing to do that will get you where 
> you think you want to go, gives something to 
> do to get you there! 
> 
It's so simple, I can't understand why you don't
get it: 

You're not going to get any more enlightenment 
than you are going to get. It's that simple. 

All you have to do is dispel the illusion that 
you are an individual 'soul-monad'. Once you do
that, you'll be able to realize the non-duality
of reality - you will be free from the false
notion that you are an individual that acts and
causes change at will.

No technique is going to cause you to get
enlightened. All a technique can do is provide
the opportunity for the dispeling of the illusion.

There is no 'doer' of actions; all actions are
under the control of the three gunas, the forces
of nature. We do not act at all because there's
no individual soul-monad to do the acting. It's
just an illusion that the 'soul' acts or causes 
any action to take place.

There's no creation: something cannot come from
nothing. Things do not move about: change is 
impossible - one thing cannot change into 
another thing. There's no causation: the effect 
is non-different from the cause. There's no
Buddha, no Marshy, no path, no technique. No horns
on a hare.

"But he who knows the truth about the divisions 
of the gunas and their actions, O mighty armed, 
knowing that it is the gunas which act upon the
gunas, remains unattached." - BG V: 27

"The authorship of action does not in reality
belong to the "I". It is a mistake to understand 
that "I" do this, "I" experience this and "I" 
know this. All action is performed by the three 
gunas born of Nature." - MMY, CBG V: 14; p. 259.

Read more:

Subject: Gunas Born of Nature
From: Willytex
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Date: Fri, September 20 2002
http://tinyurl.com/5csppj

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> 
> Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru and Maharishi is the
> movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing greater than
> Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you are!

Such quotes are easy to mock. But I believe you are taking it out of
context, out of how it was meant. 

He was saying, IMO, "Guru is THAT". Something distinct from
personality, and all. Its saying, "there are walking living
embodiments of THAT. Their life is THAT. Don't get hung up on manifest
idiosyncrocies." And more , IMO, it says (from larger context) "don't
get hung up on me or him and all. The body and its actions are
limited. Limitations. Not total. But some lives are that Totality.
Pick up on that, understand that, and forget the limited personality,
body, mind, etc."

Looking to other embodiments of THAT, there are some strange waves 
manifested in limited minds and bodies. But I can appreciate THAT in
them. And in some cases, its like walking near a blast furnace. The
structure is not so fascinating, but the heat is real.

An that heat, that Totality is great.

YMMV
  
 



> 
> He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> 
> > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > shorter time.
> 
> He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some people
> too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe that there
> was nothing greater than him?  That people were achieving
> "enlightenment" in a sorter time.  That all people in history were
> searching for what he was offering?  That he alone in history was able
> to offer it to the world rather than a small group?
> 
> Still working on those question.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays  wrote:
> >
> > Maharishi's 20th July 2005 Press Conference
> > 
> > Excerpt on the role of the Guru:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dr Hagelin:  Maharishi, there is a question on 
> > the special role of the teacher, the Guru, in 
> > gaining the full awakening of enlightenment. The 
> > reporter asks, "In every news conference, 
> > Maharishi pays tribute to his teacher and to the 
> > tradition of Vedic teachers for giving the 
> > knowledge and technique of Transcendental 
> > Meditation to gain enlightenment. Is the 
> > technique of Transcendental Meditation and other 
> > advanced programmes sufficient to gain 
> > enlightenment, or is there an indispensable role 
> > that a teacher plays to guide an individual on 
> > the path to enlightenment? And if so, what would 
> > that role be?"
> > 
> > Maharishi: The role is that the teacher is 
> > absolutely woven into this knowledge. And when 
> > the knowledge is in our awareness, it is the 
> > total teacher that is in our awareness. It says 
> > in the Vedic Literature about the teacher, "Na 
> > Guror Adhikam, Na Guror Adhikam, Na Guror 
> > Adhikam." There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > embodiment of all that is greatest.   
> > 
> > Guru is Brahm. Gurur Brahma, Gurur Vishnur. These 
> > are not the words of adoration; this is the 
> > description of the reality of Guru. Guru is on 
> > the level of Totality personified. When Guru 
> > speaks, it is the Totality that speaks. Words of 
> > the Guru are the words of the Veda. Veda is only 
> > heard from the Guru. So Guru means the Totality. 
> > If one is in the sense of Guru all the time, one 
> > is in the sense of total Natural Law and its 
> > total organizing power; there is nothing greater 
> > than that.   
> > 
> > That is why Guru is completely natural in our 
> > awareness. It is not a matter of anything that is 
> > from outside or anything. It is completely 
> > natural. It is simple. It is Totality. It is a 
> > great thing. One knows it in being that level of 
> > relationship. "Na Guror Adhikam"-there is nothing 
> > greater than Guru, nothing greater than Guru.   
> > 
> > Guru Purnima is the Full Moon of the Guru-one day 
> > of the year. In the Vedic Calendar, each day is 
> > attributed to some Devata, to some special 
> > creative intelligence-Sun, Moon, Shiva, Vishnu, 
> > and all. There are an enormous number of Devatas, 
> > embodiments of the Kriya Shakti. "Kriya Shakti" 
> > is the power of action. There are two things, 
> > basically: the silence and action, silence and 
> > activity, infinite silence and infinite activity, 
> > and both in perfect accord with each other. 
> > Perfect silence, perfect dynamism: this is 
> > Brahm-this is Totality.   
> > 
> > The Guru is Totality. He has, as it is said in 
> > the Vedic Literature and with reference to wha

[FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[Richard J. Williams]

Peter wrote:
> He needs to be beaten with a stick!
>
Very impressive coming from a Doctor of Psychology!

TurquoiseB wrote: 
> A stick wielded by whores wearing pants and with
> their heads uncovered who are having their periods
> no less. 
>
Put the bottle down, Barry, and back away from the
bar. Go to your apartment and sober up. Then get back
to us in a year or two, when you can make comments 
like a scholar, if not a gentleman. In your present
state, you are neither, Sir.

> That'd show him!!!
> 
Yeah, like you showed your brother when you hit him 
in the stomach during a disassociation state! But, I 
wonder, was it the Turq or the brother who was in a
state of disassociation.
 
> You make an excellent point about the NeoAdvaita
> crap, Peter. 
>
Right, like Barry even knows what Adwaita is!!!
He once posted that there were 'two' reals and that
the Buddha taught the 'soul-monad' theory. 

> While what this asshole says may be accurate and 
> useful information spoken *from* the POV of 
> realization *to* the POV of realization, it is 
> inaccurate and detrimental when spoken to anyone 
> else.
>
By all means keep the truth a secret - keep the 
'mystery' for the Turq. Whatever you do, don't tell
the people the truth. Keep it all inside the cult.
My Gawd, what would happen if the people found out 
that the emperor was wearing no clothing!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[Peter]

--- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> 
> Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> and Maharishi is the
> movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> greater than
> Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> are!
> 
> He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> 
> > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > shorter time.
> 
> He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> people
> too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> that there
> was nothing greater than him?  That people were achieving
> "enlightenment" in a sorter time.  That all
> people in history were
> searching for what he was offering?  That he alone in
> history was able
> to offer it to the world rather than a small group?
> 
> Still working on those question.

All of us, in our own way, are working on those questions. Like a huge Zen Koan.





> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Maharishi's 20th July 2005 Press Conference
> > 
> > Excerpt on the role of the Guru:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dr Hagelin:  Maharishi, there is a question on 
> > the special role of the teacher, the Guru, in 
> > gaining the full awakening of enlightenment. The 
> > reporter asks, "In every news conference, 
> > Maharishi pays tribute to his teacher and to the 
> > tradition of Vedic teachers for giving the 
> > knowledge and technique of Transcendental 
> > Meditation to gain enlightenment. Is the 
> > technique of Transcendental Meditation and other 
> > advanced programmes sufficient to gain 
> > enlightenment, or is there an indispensable role 
> > that a teacher plays to guide an individual on 
> > the path to enlightenment? And if so, what would 
> > that role be?"
> > 
> > Maharishi: The role is that the teacher is 
> > absolutely woven into this knowledge. And when 
> > the knowledge is in our awareness, it is the 
> > total teacher that is in our awareness. It says 
> > in the Vedic Literature about the teacher, "Na 
> > Guror Adhikam, Na Guror Adhikam, Na Guror 
> > Adhikam." There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > embodiment of all that is greatest.   
> > 
> > Guru is Brahm. Gurur Brahma, Gurur Vishnur. These 
> > are not the words of adoration; this is the 
> > description of the reality of Guru. Guru is on 
> > the level of Totality personified. When Guru 
> > speaks, it is the Totality that speaks. Words of 
> > the Guru are the words of the Veda. Veda is only 
> > heard from the Guru. So Guru means the Totality. 
> > If one is in the sense of Guru all the time, one 
> > is in the sense of total Natural Law and its 
> > total organizing power; there is nothing greater 
> > than that.   
> > 
> > That is why Guru is completely natural in our 
> > awareness. It is not a matter of anything that is 
> > from outside or anything. It is completely 
> > natural. It is simple. It is Totality. It is a 
> > great thing. One knows it in being that level of 
> > relationship. "Na Guror Adhikam"-there is
> nothing 
> > greater than Guru, nothing greater than Guru.   
> > 
> > Guru Purnima is the Full Moon of the Guru-one day 
> > of the year. In the Vedic Calendar, each day is 
> > attributed to some Devata, to some special 
> > creative intelligence-Sun, Moon, Shiva, Vishnu, 
> > and all. There are an enormous number of Devatas, 
> > embodiments of the Kriya Shakti. "Kriya
> Shakti" 
> > is the power of action. There are two things, 
> > basically: the silence and action, silence and 
> > activity, infinite silence and infinite activity, 
> > and both in perfect accord with each other. 
> > Perfect silence, perfect dynamism: this is 
> > Brahm-this is Totality.   
> > 
> > The Guru is Totality. He has, as it is said in 
> > the Vedic Literature and with reference to what 
> > Dr John Hagelin just said, "Pripad Asyamritam 
> > Divi." That means three-fourths is Amrit.
> "Amrit" 
> > means eternal. Three-fourths is eternal; 
> > one-fourth is juggling around.   
> > 
> > Three-fourths is eternal. This is what makes us 
> > stand on our own feet eternally. We are embedded 
> > in the three-fourths of the unmanifest, as Dr 
> > Hagelin said. This unmanifest, this Avyakta, is 
> > three-fourths, and the manifest is one-fourth. 
> > Three-fourths is unmanifest; one-fourth is 
> > manifest. The changes take place in the 
> > unmanifest. What continues in the field of flow 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[Richard J. Williams]

> > You make an excellent point about the NeoAdvaita
> > crap, Peter. 
> 
Peter wrote:
> I've always noted a very clear distinction between 
> how Ramana Maharishi spoke and how other "lessor" 
> advaita advocates speak. 
>
How many times have you heard the Ramana speak? I 
thought he was dead - correct me if I'm wrong about 
this. Did the Ramana know any Miami-speak? I always
assumed Ramana spoke in Hindi. 

> Ramana never tried to build a conceptual model for 
> the minds entertainment, but these other guys do 
> and it is not helpful at all. 
> 
So, you do watch Oprah! What do your patients think 
when they see you on the couch watching TV instead 
of counseling them from behind your desk?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > From: curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > 
> > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > and Maharishi is the
> > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > greater than
> > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > are!
> > 
> > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > 
> > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > shorter time.
> > 
> > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > people
> > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > that there
> > was nothing greater than him?  

No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than the
 Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of all
others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".

Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
 

That people were achieving
> > "enlightenment" in a sorter time.  

> That all
> > people in history were
> > searching for what he was offering?  

I think everyone is, in their own way, on their own path, unraveling
things on a search for Totality.

> That he alone in
> > history was able
> > to offer it to the world rather than a small group?

Totality alone was able to offer Totality to the world, community or
bus station.

> > Still working on those question.
> 
> All of us, in our own way, are working on those questions. Like a
huge Zen Koan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Maharishi's 20th July 2005 Press Conference
> > > 
> > > Excerpt on the role of the Guru:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dr Hagelin:  Maharishi, there is a question on 
> > > the special role of the teacher, the Guru, in 
> > > gaining the full awakening of enlightenment. The 
> > > reporter asks, "In every news conference, 
> > > Maharishi pays tribute to his teacher and to the 
> > > tradition of Vedic teachers for giving the 
> > > knowledge and technique of Transcendental 
> > > Meditation to gain enlightenment. Is the 
> > > technique of Transcendental Meditation and other 
> > > advanced programmes sufficient to gain 
> > > enlightenment, or is there an indispensable role 
> > > that a teacher plays to guide an individual on 
> > > the path to enlightenment? And if so, what would 
> > > that role be?"
> > > 
> > > Maharishi: The role is that the teacher is 
> > > absolutely woven into this knowledge. And when 
> > > the knowledge is in our awareness, it is the 
> > > total teacher that is in our awareness. It says 
> > > in the Vedic Literature about the teacher, "Na 
> > > Guror Adhikam, Na Guror Adhikam, Na Guror 
> > > Adhikam." There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > embodiment of all that is greatest.   
> > > 
> > > Guru is Brahm. Gurur Brahma, Gurur Vishnur. These 
> > > are not the words of adoration; this is the 
> > > description of the reality of Guru. Guru is on 
> > > the level of Totality personified. When Guru 
> > > speaks, it is the Totality that speaks. Words of 
> > > the Guru are the words of the Veda. Veda is only 
> > > heard from the Guru. So Guru means the Totality. 
> > > If one is in the sense of Guru all the time, one 
> > > is in the sense of total Natural Law and its 
> > > total organizing power; there is nothing greater 
> > > than that.   
> > > 
> > > That is why Guru is completely natural in our 
> > > awareness. It is not a matter of anything that is 
> > > from outside or anything. It is completely 
> > > natural. It is simple. It is Totality. It is a 
> > > great thing. One knows it in being that level of 
> > > relationship. "Na Guror Adhikam"-there is
> > nothing 
> > > greater than Guru, nothing greater than Guru.   
> > > 
> > > Guru Purnima is the Full Moon of the Guru-one day 
> > > of the year. In the Vedic Calendar, each day is 
> > > attributed to some Devata, to some special 
> > > creative intelligence-Sun, Moon, Shiva, Vishnu, 
> > > and all. There are an enormous number of Devatas, 
> > > embodiments of the Kriya Shakti. "Kriya
> > Shakti" 
> > > is the power of action. There are two things, 
> > > basically: the silence and action, silence and 
> > > activity, infinite silence and infinite activity, 
> > > and both in perfect accord with each other. 
> > > P

[FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > You make an excellent point about the NeoAdvaita
> > > crap, Peter. 
> > 
> Peter wrote:
> > I've always noted a very clear distinction between 
> > how Ramana Maharishi spoke and how other "lessor" 
> > advaita advocates speak. 
> >
> How many times have you heard the Ramana speak? I 
> thought he was dead - correct me if I'm wrong about 
> this. Did the Ramana know any Miami-speak? I always
> assumed Ramana spoke in Hindi. 
> 
> > Ramana never tried to build a conceptual model for 
> > the minds entertainment, but these other guys do 
> > and it is not helpful at all. 
> > 
> So, you do watch Oprah! What do your patients think 
> when they see you on the couch watching TV instead 
> of counseling them from behind your desk?

But Oprah is that Totality too. :)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

> 
> Such quotes are easy to mock. But I believe you are taking it out of
> context, out of how it was meant. 
> 
> He was saying, IMO, "Guru is THAT". Something distinct from
> personality, and all. Its saying, "there are walking living
> embodiments of THAT. Their life is THAT. Don't get hung up on manifest
> idiosyncrocies." And more , IMO, it says (from larger context) "don't
> get hung up on me or him and all. The body and its actions are
> limited. Limitations. Not total. But some lives are that Totality.
> Pick up on that, understand that, and forget the limited
personality,> body, mind, etc."

I guess where we differ is that I don't give their state of mind in
realizing "that" much value.  And there are a lot of better ways IMO
to convey what you are saying then telling me that there is nothing
higher than the "guru."  You could just say that there is nothing
higher than "that."

FWIW, I'm not a fan of the guy who said he was the "way the truth and
the light, no one gets to the father except by me" either for some of
the same reasons.

People who tell me that they are "all that", including Little Richard
BTW, get the raspberry from me.  And I consider the insight about our
common human equality to rival their claims of utter fabulousness in
importance.  This is my understanding of life: you aren't "all that",
and neither am I. Not gunna get me a group of people doing puja to me
on Guru Purnima day I know.
> 
> Looking to other embodiments of THAT, there are some strange waves 
> manifested in limited minds and bodies. But I can appreciate THAT in
> them. And in some cases, its like walking near a blast furnace. The
> structure is not so fascinating, but the heat is real.
> 
> An that heat, that Totality is great.

It is obviously working for you New, so you'll get no mockery from me.
 Just stay out of the bedsheets and don't ask me to wave camphor in
front of your picture dude!
> 
> YMMV

It certainly does.

>   
>  
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > 
> > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > shorter time.
> > 
> > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some people
> > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe that there
> > was nothing greater than him?  That people were achieving
> > "enlightenment" in a sorter time.  That all people in history were
> > searching for what he was offering?  That he alone in history was able
> > to offer it to the world rather than a small group?
> > 
> > Still working on those question.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays  wrote:
> > >
> > > Maharishi's 20th July 2005 Press Conference
> > > 
> > > Excerpt on the role of the Guru:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dr Hagelin:  Maharishi, there is a question on 
> > > the special role of the teacher, the Guru, in 
> > > gaining the full awakening of enlightenment. The 
> > > reporter asks, "In every news conference, 
> > > Maharishi pays tribute to his teacher and to the 
> > > tradition of Vedic teachers for giving the 
> > > knowledge and technique of Transcendental 
> > > Meditation to gain enlightenment. Is the 
> > > technique of Transcendental Meditation and other 
> > > advanced programmes sufficient to gain 
> > > enlightenment, or is there an indispensable role 
> > > that a teacher plays to guide an individual on 
> > > the path to enlightenment? And if so, what would 
> > > that role be?"
> > > 
> > > Maharishi: The role is that the teacher is 
> > > absolutely woven into this knowledge. And when 
> > > the knowledge is in our awareness, it is the 
> > > total teacher that is in our awareness. It says 
> > > in the Vedic Literature about the teacher, "Na 
> > > Guror Adhikam, Na Guror Adhikam, Na Guror 
> > > Adhikam." There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > embodiment of all that is greatest.   
> > > 
> > > Guru is Brahm. Gurur Brahma, Gurur Vishnur. These 
> > > are not the words of adoration; this is the 
> > > description of the reality of Guru. Guru is on 
> > > the level of Totality personified. When Guru 
> > > speaks, it is the Totality that speaks. Words of 
> > > the Guru are the words of the Veda. Veda is only 
> > > heard from the Guru. So Guru means the Totality. 
> > > If one is in the sense of Guru all the time, one 
> > > is in the sense of total Natural Law and its 
> > > total organizing power; there is nothing greater 
> > > than that.   
> > > 
> > > That is why Guru is completely natural in our 
> > > awareness. It is not a matter of anything that is 
> > > from outside or anything. It is completely 
> > > natural. It is simple. It is Totality. It is a 
> > > great thing. One knows it in being that level of 
> > > relationship. "Na Guror Adhikam"-there is nothing 
> > > greater than Guru, nothi

[FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[Richard J. Williams]

TurquoiseB wrote:
> The problem is that many of the NeoAdvaitan teachers
> don't seem to know when those right situations present
> themselves, and lazily get into talking this way at
> all times, when it is NOT appropriate. Doing so creates
> more confusion than enlightenment in my opinion.
> 
NOW you tell us, after the Zen Master Rama is dead!

"Allegations that Lenz was a sexual predator are often 
the subject of Lenz news articles."

Read more:

Frederick Lenz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lenz

"Anyone who has teenagers, young adults in their family 
would be wise to read this book." - Diana Linden

'Take Me For A Ride; Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult'
By Mark Laxer
Outer Rim Press, 1993
http://tinyurl.com/4oaxm4

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jul 18, 2008, at 8:32 AM, feste37 wrote:


Delighted to oblige. I would love to go to the celebration today, but
unfortunately leather belts are not permitted and I need one to hold
my trousers up. I would hate to embarrass myself in front of the
ladies on such a dignified occasion.


You don't need to, feste, you now have the total freedom to embarrass
yourself in front of the men only.  :)  This just in:

1. Announcement for Ladies for Guru Purnima

 It is a delight to announce that the Bagambhrini Golden Dome will  
be open
and connected to the Maharishi Patanjali Golden Dome for the Guru  
Purnima

celebration.

 Any ladies who would like to enjoy the celebration in the Ladies’  
Dome are

warmly invited. The connection will be a video connection.

 We would ask that the points mentioned for the Men’s Dome apply to the
Ladies’ Dome as well (arrival time, dress, etc.).

 If you would like your fruit and flowers to be offered by the Vedic
Pandits, please stop by the Men’s Dome on your way to the Ladies’  
Dome to be

put them in the offerings receptacles in the lobby.

Whether or not this is doublespeak meaning that ladies are
*required* to go to the ladies' dome or not (I wonder, where
are the women supposed to go?) it's bound to mean that a few less
ladies will be in the mens' dome.  So, courage, feste...sally forth! :)

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[curtisdeltablues]

> Whether or not this is doublespeak meaning that ladies are
> *required* to go to the ladies' dome or not (I wonder, where
> are the women supposed to go?)

I think it is for the ladies for whom even the whiff of testosterone
would make their headlights go on, which as you know is highly
anti-Vedic. (although quite attractive through a silk sari I might add)

I swear the movement will be instituting Sharia law in my lifetime. 



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> On Jul 18, 2008, at 8:32 AM, feste37 wrote:
> 
> > Delighted to oblige. I would love to go to the celebration today, but
> > unfortunately leather belts are not permitted and I need one to hold
> > my trousers up. I would hate to embarrass myself in front of the
> > ladies on such a dignified occasion.
> 
> You don't need to, feste, you now have the total freedom to embarrass
> yourself in front of the men only.  :)  This just in:
> 
> 1. Announcement for Ladies for Guru Purnima
> 
>   It is a delight to announce that the Bagambhrini Golden Dome will  
> be open
> and connected to the Maharishi Patanjali Golden Dome for the Guru  
> Purnima
> celebration.
> 
>   Any ladies who would like to enjoy the celebration in the Ladies'  
> Dome are
> warmly invited. The connection will be a video connection.
> 
>   We would ask that the points mentioned for the Men's Dome apply to the
> Ladies' Dome as well (arrival time, dress, etc.).
> 
>   If you would like your fruit and flowers to be offered by the Vedic
> Pandits, please stop by the Men's Dome on your way to the Ladies'  
> Dome to be
> put them in the offerings receptacles in the lobby.
> 
> Whether or not this is doublespeak meaning that ladies are
> *required* to go to the ladies' dome or not (I wonder, where
> are the women supposed to go?) it's bound to mean that a few less
> ladies will be in the mens' dome.  So, courage, feste...sally forth! :)
> 
> Sal
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[new . morning]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> > 
> > Such quotes are easy to mock. But I believe you are taking it out of
> > context, out of how it was meant. 
> > 
> > He was saying, IMO, "Guru is THAT". Something distinct from
> > personality, and all. Its saying, "there are walking living
> > embodiments of THAT. Their life is THAT. Don't get hung up on manifest
> > idiosyncrocies." And more , IMO, it says (from larger context) "don't
> > get hung up on me or him and all. The body and its actions are
> > limited. Limitations. Not total. But some lives are that Totality.
> > Pick up on that, understand that, and forget the limited
> personality,> body, mind, etc."
> 
> I guess where we differ is that I don't give their state of mind in
> realizing "that" much value.  And there are a lot of better ways IMO
> to convey what you are saying then telling me that there is nothing
> higher than the "guru."  You could just say that there is nothing
> higher than "that."
> 
> FWIW, I'm not a fan of the guy who said he was the "way the truth and
> the light, no one gets to the father except by me" either for some of
> the same reasons.

Which I do think he said, but thats my opinion. I think the above is
the bastard child language of 2000 years of transmission over 5-6
languages -- and a big does of political manipulation.


> People who tell me that they are "all that", including Little Richard
> BTW, get the raspberry from me.  And I consider the insight about our
> common human equality to rival their claims of utter fabulousness in
> importance.  This is my understanding of life: you aren't "all that",
> and neither am I. Not gunna get me a group of people doing puja to me
> on Guru Purnima day I know.

Actually, we already do. 500 of us gathered las GP. This year, it
looks like 1000.

> > 
> > Looking to other embodiments of THAT, there are some strange waves 
> > manifested in limited minds and bodies. But I can appreciate THAT in
> > them. And in some cases, its like walking near a blast furnace. The
> > structure is not so fascinating, but the heat is real.
> > 
> > An that heat, that Totality is great.
> 
> It is obviously working for you New, so you'll get no mockery from me.
>  Just stay out of the bedsheets and don't ask me to wave camphor in
> front of your picture dude!
> > 
> > YMMV
> 
> It certainly does.

Well, you could at least wave your bong. :)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[Richard J. Williams]

Curtis wrote:
> He ran that one till his last breath.
>
Stop the lying, Curtis! Everyone knows that the 
Marshy was in silence thirty days before he passed 
away.

> Still worked on some people too.
>
Brilliant! That must be why they're celebrating
'Guru Purnima' in the Golden Dome. 

> My feelings on that are mixed.
>
So, you have mixed feelings about Marshy being the 
greatest?

> Did he really believe that there was nothing 
> greater than him?  
>
What happened to all the money? 

> That people were achieving "enlightenment" in 
> a sorter time.  That all people in history 
> were searching for what he was offering?  That 
> he alone in history was able to offer it to 
> the world rather than a small group?
> 
You promised them enlightenment in 5-7 years. You 
probably told them that TM and the Marshy was the 
greatest, the best, and that TM was the fastest 
enlightenment technique on the entire planet.

Otherwise, how would you have convinced all those
people to pay you for the training? That is, unless
you were telling them that TM was just a relaxation
method. 

Which was it - an enlightenment technique or a 
relaxation technique that you taught? If you told 
them that TM was an enlightenent technique, don't 
you think you should probably refund all the money 
you took for those 'mantras' you sold? 

You do have a list of their names, right?

> Still working on those question.
> 
So, you don't have all the answers, even after all 
these years. Maybe you should get some smarts and 
wake up to reality. You sold water down by the
river for years and years. Why can't you TMO types
just be honest and tell the truth?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jul 18, 2008, at 10:03 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:


Whether or not this is doublespeak meaning that ladies are
*required* to go to the ladies' dome or not (I wonder, where
are the women supposed to go?)


I think it is for the ladies for whom even the whiff of testosterone
would make their headlights go on,


Those would be the women, Curtis.


which as you know is highly
anti-Vedic. (although quite attractive through a silk sari I might  
add)


I swear the movement will be instituting Sharia law in my lifetime.


What do you call what they're doing now?

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[new . morning]

Um I meant "I DON'T think he said" -- re jesus quote

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > 
> > > Such quotes are easy to mock. But I believe you are taking it out of
> > > context, out of how it was meant. 
> > > 
> > > He was saying, IMO, "Guru is THAT". Something distinct from
> > > personality, and all. Its saying, "there are walking living
> > > embodiments of THAT. Their life is THAT. Don't get hung up on
manifest
> > > idiosyncrocies." And more , IMO, it says (from larger context)
"don't
> > > get hung up on me or him and all. The body and its actions are
> > > limited. Limitations. Not total. But some lives are that Totality.
> > > Pick up on that, understand that, and forget the limited
> > personality,> body, mind, etc."
> > 
> > I guess where we differ is that I don't give their state of mind in
> > realizing "that" much value.  And there are a lot of better ways IMO
> > to convey what you are saying then telling me that there is nothing
> > higher than the "guru."  You could just say that there is nothing
> > higher than "that."
> > 
> > FWIW, I'm not a fan of the guy who said he was the "way the truth and
> > the light, no one gets to the father except by me" either for some of
> > the same reasons.
> 
> Which I do think he said, but thats my opinion. I think the above is
> the bastard child language of 2000 years of transmission over 5-6
> languages -- and a big does of political manipulation.
> 
> 
> > People who tell me that they are "all that", including Little Richard
> > BTW, get the raspberry from me.  And I consider the insight about our
> > common human equality to rival their claims of utter fabulousness in
> > importance.  This is my understanding of life: you aren't "all that",
> > and neither am I. Not gunna get me a group of people doing puja to me
> > on Guru Purnima day I know.
> 
> Actually, we already do. 500 of us gathered las GP. This year, it
> looks like 1000.
> 
> > > 
> > > Looking to other embodiments of THAT, there are some strange waves 
> > > manifested in limited minds and bodies. But I can appreciate THAT in
> > > them. And in some cases, its like walking near a blast furnace. The
> > > structure is not so fascinating, but the heat is real.
> > > 
> > > An that heat, that Totality is great.
> > 
> > It is obviously working for you New, so you'll get no mockery from me.
> >  Just stay out of the bedsheets and don't ask me to wave camphor in
> > front of your picture dude!
> > > 
> > > YMMV
> > 
> > It certainly does.
> 
> Well, you could at least wave your bong. :)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm all for self-mockery, but I don't think that's what's going on
> > > here, for the most part. 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > 
> > Feste, you're all for "self mockery"? Really? Can you give some 
> > examples as it relates to the TMO? Humor and the ability to laugh 
> > at oneself are all important aspects of personal growth IMO.
> 
> I agree. And there WERE such things, but they tended
> to be in private. I seem to remember you and I having
> some pretty funny discussions when we both lived at
> National, towards the end of our respective TM "careers."
> We laughed our asses off at some of the antics that we
> and others were being asked to perform. Remember your
> record-cleaning ritual done while singing the puja?
> That STILL cracks me up, all these years later.  :-)
> 
> But we laughed like this in private, because we knew 
> what would happen to us if we did it publicly.
> 
> I completely agree with the basic premise -- a religious
> or spiritual movement's "mental health" can be judged
> pretty accurately by its ability to laugh at itself,
> and at the very things it considers holy. When a group
> can do that, it's still sane. When it veers into the
> aberration of taking itself completely seriously, and
> starts to persecute those who laugh at it, then there
> is something wrong IMO.

Oh yeahI had forgot about that one. (I might dust off the puja for 
tonight's cleaning of 
some stellar mono jazz LPs I just scored. Thanks for reminding me!)

You're right that all of our shenanigans had to be in private.especially 
when the team of 
3 women from Seelisberg (Rindy's Rindettes) showed up to run the joint. Talk 
about pent 
up! I taught one of them special techniques (eating no doubt), finished the 
puja and 
looked up to see her holding her white sari high above her head.

What to do, what to do!

I also recall having long conversations that were verbatim Firesign Theater 
bits with you. 
(You being a fellow aficionado of that brilliant group.)

Good times eh?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Delighted to oblige. I would love to go to the celebration today, but
> unfortunately leather belts are not permitted and I need one to hold
> my trousers up. I would hate to embarrass myself in front of the
> ladies on such a dignified occasion. 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm all for self-mockery, but I don't think that's what's going on
> > > here, for the most part. 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > 
> > Feste, you're all for "self mockery"? Really? Can you give some
> examples as it relates to the 
> > TMO? Humor and the ability to laugh at oneself are all important
> aspects of personal growth 
> > IMO.
> >
"Women and children.please stand back!"

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[Richard J. Williams]

TurquoiseB wrote:
> I don't know, either. I just find this whole subject
> fascinating, because I can remember how many years
> I bought into such things hook, line, and sinker. 
>
So, you've been in and out of cults for most of your
adult life. But for what purpose? You must have
spent thousands of dollars on cult activities! Why
would a sane person give the Marshy $5,000 like you
did to learn how to bounce on foam? You bought into
the cults, hook, line, and sinker. You probably gave
that Fred fellow at least $50,000! Man, if you had
any smarts you'd go see a psychiatrist or at least
an exit counselor. For Chrissakes, Barry, you could
be a home-owner by now with a savings account for
your retirement. Instead, you're still dabbling in
cultic activities and having to key in computer code
to pay your apartment rent. What's fascinating is not 
the cult, but how you got hooked for so many years.

"Finally, others stripped voluntarily and Trungpa, 
apparently satisfied, said 'Let's dance' (Marin, 
1995)." 

Read more:

'Stripping the Gurus'
http://tinyurl.com/6465xt

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> 
> Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru and Maharishi is the
> movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing greater than
> Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you are!
> 
A, you beat me to the punch on that one! Indeed. He had that rap down cold 
all the 
while knowing full well that his fawning hordes (including you and me) would 
(nod, nod, 
wink, wink) know that it was MMY who was the greatest, bestest and all around 
highest of 
them all!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Curtis wrote:
> > He ran that one till his last breath.
> >
> Stop the lying, Curtis! Everyone knows that the 
> Marshy was in silence thirty days before he passed 
> away.


Actually he was hitting the Rajas up for phallic monuments to his "all
thatitude" dude.

> 
> > Still worked on some people too.
> >
> Brilliant! That must be why they're celebrating
> 'Guru Purnima' in the Golden Dome. 
> 
> > My feelings on that are mixed.
> >
> So, you have mixed feelings about Marshy being the 
> greatest?

He was the greatest of all sorts of things Richard.  

> 
> > Did he really believe that there was nothing 
> > greater than him?  
> >
> What happened to all the money? 

I kept it all for a while, then one trip to Vegas and now I'm back on
the street with my guitar.

> 
> > That people were achieving "enlightenment" in 
> > a sorter time.  That all people in history 
> > were searching for what he was offering?  That 
> > he alone in history was able to offer it to 
> > the world rather than a small group?
> > 
> You promised them enlightenment in 5-7 years. You 
> probably told them that TM and the Marshy was the 
> greatest, the best, and that TM was the fastest 
> enlightenment technique on the entire planet.
> 
> Otherwise, how would you have convinced all those
> people to pay you for the training? That is, unless
> you were telling them that TM was just a relaxation
> method.

You don't sell TM as an enlightenment technique you sell the practical
benifits which I believe most people got enough of to justify teaching
it.  I am not anti meditation.
 
> 
> Which was it - an enlightenment technique or a 
> relaxation technique that you taught? 

You have been trying to mix it up all morning haven't you Richard?  It
meant different things to different people.

If you told 
> them that TM was an enlightenent technique, don't 
> you think you should probably refund all the money 
> you took for those 'mantras' you sold? 

In the terms I understand what the "enlightenment" experience is I
would say that TM delivered it.  I was satisfied with the experience,
it was the understanding I came to question.  I now question the value
of such states cultivated by meditation.

> 
> You do have a list of their names, right?

No that was all kept at the national organization. 
> 
> > Still working on those question.
> > 
> So, you don't have all the answers, even after all 
> these years.

Right, now you are catching on to my "We're all bozos on this bus"
perspective!

 Maybe you should get some smarts and 
> wake up to reality.

Oh, that sounds kinda unfriendly.

 You sold water down by the > river for years and years.

I don't agree with this.  I sold a decent relaxation technique and
people liked it.  I still do.  All the "enlightenment" crap was for
people who got really into it, not the beginner level.

 Why can't you TMO types > just be honest and tell the truth?

Yeah that's me Richard, a TMO type!  You want the truth?  I'll tell
you the truth: I am not all THAT, you are not all THAT, but all this
is all that there is so I hope you are having a ball.  I am.





>

[FairfieldLife] This is why the internet is changing the world

[shempmcgurk]

http://tinyurl.com/6k6q86

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

> Well, you could at least wave your bong. :)

Yeah, my custom made Maharishi Tower of Invincibility bong!

(about Jesus as all that quote):
> Which I do think he said, but thats my opinion. I think the above is
> the bastard child language of 2000 years of transmission over 5-6
> languages -- and a big does of political manipulation.

Wow, and here I thought he was the savior of all mankind and that
believing in him would grant me an immoral life!   What?  It was
"immortal" life he was pitching?  Damn, take my name off the list, I
completely misunderstood what was being offered!  Immortality is like
being 6th in a checkout line and the person at the cashier has a purse
full of unsorted coupons and they are paying by check, but their
address doesn't match, and every item requires a manager's price check.

Count me TF OUT! 






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > 
> > > Such quotes are easy to mock. But I believe you are taking it out of
> > > context, out of how it was meant. 
> > > 
> > > He was saying, IMO, "Guru is THAT". Something distinct from
> > > personality, and all. Its saying, "there are walking living
> > > embodiments of THAT. Their life is THAT. Don't get hung up on
manifest
> > > idiosyncrocies." And more , IMO, it says (from larger context)
"don't
> > > get hung up on me or him and all. The body and its actions are
> > > limited. Limitations. Not total. But some lives are that Totality.
> > > Pick up on that, understand that, and forget the limited
> > personality,> body, mind, etc."
> > 
> > I guess where we differ is that I don't give their state of mind in
> > realizing "that" much value.  And there are a lot of better ways IMO
> > to convey what you are saying then telling me that there is nothing
> > higher than the "guru."  You could just say that there is nothing
> > higher than "that."
> > 
> > FWIW, I'm not a fan of the guy who said he was the "way the truth and
> > the light, no one gets to the father except by me" either for some of
> > the same reasons.
> 
> Which I do think he said, but thats my opinion. I think the above is
> the bastard child language of 2000 years of transmission over 5-6
> languages -- and a big does of political manipulation.
> 
> 
> > People who tell me that they are "all that", including Little Richard
> > BTW, get the raspberry from me.  And I consider the insight about our
> > common human equality to rival their claims of utter fabulousness in
> > importance.  This is my understanding of life: you aren't "all that",
> > and neither am I. Not gunna get me a group of people doing puja to me
> > on Guru Purnima day I know.
> 
> Actually, we already do. 500 of us gathered las GP. This year, it
> looks like 1000.
> 
> > > 
> > > Looking to other embodiments of THAT, there are some strange waves 
> > > manifested in limited minds and bodies. But I can appreciate THAT in
> > > them. And in some cases, its like walking near a blast furnace. The
> > > structure is not so fascinating, but the heat is real.
> > > 
> > > An that heat, that Totality is great.
> > 
> > It is obviously working for you New, so you'll get no mockery from me.
> >  Just stay out of the bedsheets and don't ask me to wave camphor in
> > front of your picture dude!
> > > 
> > > YMMV
> > 
> > It certainly does.
> 
> Well, you could at least wave your bong. :)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[Richard J. Williams]

Curtis wrote:
> Not gunna get me a group of people 
> doing puja to me...
> 
But you don't seem to have any objection 
to a group of people seeing you open your 
pie-hole up on stage on any other day?

> Just stay out of the bedsheets and don't 
> ask me to wave camphor 
>  
Just pass the hat, Curtis!

> in front of your picture dude!
>
Is that a picture of you on your CD? 

http://tinyurl.com/6e8mfh

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Curtis wrote:
> > Not gunna get me a group of people 
> > doing puja to me...
> > 
> But you don't seem to have any objection 
> to a group of people seeing you open your 
> pie-hole up on stage on any other day?

Correctamundo!

> 
> > Just stay out of the bedsheets and don't 
> > ask me to wave camphor 
> >  
> Just pass the hat, Curtis!

I use a box with a lid and holes.  Bills blow out of hats.

> 
> > in front of your picture dude!
> >
> Is that a picture of you on your CD? 
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/6e8mfh

Yes that's me, it was taken right after reading one of your posts.



>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[Richard J. Williams]

> Why can't you TMO types just be honest 
> and tell the truth?
>
Curtis wrote: 
> Yeah that's me Richard, a TMO type!
>
So, the truth comes out - Curtis is a 
TMO type, but he doesn't want to go to
the Guru Purnima to see all the ladies
in their saris.

> You want the truth? I'll tell you the 
> truth: I am not all THAT, you are not 
> all THAT, but all this is all that there 
> is so I hope you are having a ball.  
>
> I am.
> 
But, you just said that you were NOT.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Why can't you TMO types just be honest 
> > and tell the truth?
> >
> Curtis wrote: 
> > Yeah that's me Richard, a TMO type!
> >
> So, the truth comes out - Curtis is a 
> TMO type, but he doesn't want to go to
> the Guru Purnima to see all the ladies
> in their saris.

You could interest me in some wet ones perhaps...

And yes Richard, that's where it all boils down for me.




> 
> > You want the truth? I'll tell you the 
> > truth: I am not all THAT, you are not 
> > all THAT, but all this is all that there 
> > is so I hope you are having a ball.  
> >
> > I am.
> > 
> But, you just said that you were NOT.
>

[FairfieldLife] 'Wear a Burka...'

[R.G.]

If women are not covered in traditional style, there will be a 'Saudi
guy, from the deserts of Saudi Arabia...
He has been hired by the TMO...
so, you ladies be very careful, you don't get 'wacked',
If you come to this 'celebration', dressed in 'improper gear'...

Now, there will be a 'black cube' symbolic of darkness, of absence of
light...
And we will be going into some kind of 'frenzy',
twisting and turning around in a negative, conterclockwise direction...
In praise of who knows what?

The bombers and gun slingers, wait for the call.
We hope it doesn't come.
We are hopeful that the call to arms doesn't come.

There are so many more important things in this world, then would appear.
No wonder Maharishi says, 'Guru is Everything'.
Just think when Bramhacharya Mahesh went to be with Guru Dev.
The one who radiated a type of silence.
that would make one's in his presence, kind of 'spacial'...

Now, during this same period, when Bramhacharya Mahesh was with Guru Dev.
On the other side of the world.
People were raping and murdering other's...
For no apparent reason at all.

Jewish people escaping the demonic currents in Europe,
Were denied access to the United States, for refuge.

Some people in the United States actually supported this:
'Attempted Demonic Take-Over of This World'...

My own father, who passed away few months ago,
Well, he fought in that war,
In Patton's army, mostly in the snows of Czech Republic.
It was hard, it was dirty work.
He came home feeling proud, he and they had 'Won the War'.
The voted Ike in.
A German General, a United States President.
Eisenhower, who demanded the people 'witnessed' what humanity had done
to itself.
The ugliness of it all.
His stomach was stronger than most.
Patton puked up, and could not be there, 
In the camps, the death camps.
Eisenhower- A great man.

Now, why make fun of Marshy?
That is a silly thing, if you ask me...
He was just this 'little guy', with a big heart.


The choices he made in his life...
Brought him great satisfaction(unlike Mick)...
Anyway...Praise Jesus... for the little guy

R.g.
Jai Guru Dev
His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi,
On the 1st Anniversary of Mahasamadhi, July, 2008.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[Richard J. Williams]

> > Just pass the hat, Curtis!
> >
> I use a box with a lid and holes. Bills blow 
> out of hats.
> 
You get dollar bills? And smoke instead of 
camphor? Very impressive. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > 
> > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > 
> > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > and Maharishi is the
> > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > greater than
> > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > are!
> > > 
> > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > 
> > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > shorter time.
> > > 
> > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > people
> > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > that there
> > > was nothing greater than him?  
> 
> No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than the
>  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of all
> others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> 
> Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
>  
> 
Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to his ultra 
highness in 
the months before he passed.

[FairfieldLife] Bert Jansch and John Renbourne, 1978 (FM)

[Vaj]

Someone mentioned Bert Jansch and John Renbourne on a previous note.  
The below was uploaded today to dimeadozen.net

On a separate note, I saw Renbourne solo about 6 years ago at a small  
nightclub on the coast of New England. He still had the chops, but  
looked gouty and swollen from years of pub playing (and beer  
drinking). He kept a good ale by his side and drank a few beers with  
the locals during breaks. The second set featured some of his old  
classics. With a lot of old back-to-the-earth hippies in the audience,  
he got lots of recognition for these old classics. A night to remember.

Any ways, enjoy the below:


A new torrent has been uploaded to DIME.

Torrent: 205844
Title: Bert Jansch, 1978-07-08, pre-fm, flac, *repost*
Size: 438.49 MB
Category: Acoustic
Uploaded by: DonTaco

Description
---
There was a request for this, even though it only dropped off the  
tracker last Jan.  It is a fine recording.  Enjoy!
-
Bert Jansch
July 8, 1978
Moraga Hall
Santa Cruz, California

solo acoustic

from KUSP pre-broadcast Soundboard reel master. Excellent sound  
quality though there is a bit of tape hiss. Please check the samples  
to get an idea of the sound for yourself.

Disc 1 - early show - 46:06
01 [2:33] Cat & Mouse
02 [1:03] talk
03 [2:53] Poor Mouth
04 [0:43] talk
05 [2:21] Day Break
06 [3:05] One Scotch One Bourbon One Beer
07 [1:10] talk
08 [8:25] Avocet [instrumental]
09 [0:46] talk
10 [4:42] Backwaterside
11 [3:45] Pretty Saro
12 [0:22] talk
13 [3:38] Down River
14 [4:26] Come Back Baby
encores:
15 [3:16] Tell Me Where'd My Life Go
16 [2:51] One For Jo
17 [0:07] thanks and crowd

Disc 2 - late show - 42:25
01 [4:10] Blues Run The Game
02 [4:05] Lost Love
03 [4:32] Time And Time Again
04 [3:21] Candyman
05 [3:52] Let Me Sing
06 [3:33] Running From Home
07 [4:14] Chrragh of Kildare
08 [1:52] Tell Me What Is True Love?
09 [0:34] talk
10 [3:24] Ask Your Daddy
11 [3:05] Anji [instrumental]
12 [2:41] I Am Lonely
13 [1:01] thanks, crowd and talk before encore
encore:
14 [2:01] In My Mind

KUSP-FM prebroadcast Revox B77 7.5 ips 1/2 track reel master [Revox  
A700 playback with azimuth adjustment] > Macintosh with DigiDesign  
AudioMedia III soundcard > Pro Tools [normalization and tracking - No  
Equalization or noise reduction] > Aiff > xACT (Flac level 8 files  
with sector boundaries verified). md5 file created with checkSUM+.

Note: Ralph McTell opened these shows and his sets are being posted  
separately.

ENJOY and SHARE!

[FairfieldLife] Re: I quit -- question for Rick or the other moderators (since he's away)

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey, Rick, Alex, gullible_fool, et al,
> 
> The following claim by Judy has me curious. Has anyone
> unsubscribed or stalked off of FFL in a snit citing me 
> as a reason "recently?"

The only info I receive are system-generated notices that someone has
unsubscribed. I have received no private emails containing reasons for
unsubscribing.
 
> And Jim's still finishing up his latest two
> weeks in the "penalty box," 

Jim unsubscribed a couple days ago.

> Edg Duveyoung last posted back in May, but left with-
> out a goodbye or stating a reason for taking off, as 
> I remember.

Edg is still subscribed and config'd with the "no email" option.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Message of Balsekar: Do nothing since everything will happen anyway.

[yifuxero]

--Ramana was a devotee of Arunachala Shiva. (Shiva with form - not 
just Shiva as the impersonal Absolute).  Modern Neo-Advaitins are 
devoted to "Nobody".


- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > You make an excellent point about the NeoAdvaita
> > > crap, Peter. 
> > 
> Peter wrote:
> > I've always noted a very clear distinction between 
> > how Ramana Maharishi spoke and how other "lessor" 
> > advaita advocates speak. 
> >
> How many times have you heard the Ramana speak? I 
> thought he was dead - correct me if I'm wrong about 
> this. Did the Ramana know any Miami-speak? I always
> assumed Ramana spoke in Hindi. 
> 
> > Ramana never tried to build a conceptual model for 
> > the minds entertainment, but these other guys do 
> > and it is not helpful at all. 
> > 
> So, you do watch Oprah! What do your patients think 
> when they see you on the couch watching TV instead 
> of counseling them from behind your desk?
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[yifuxero]

-on the idea of nothing greater than the Totality. True, but the 
statements below are from the Guru Gita and the basic message there 
is that the Guru is greater than "God" - the Totality; since among 
the Gurus subscribing to the message of the Guru Gita (such as 
Muktananda); you can't get to the Totality without the Guru; so the 
Guru is greater.
 Of course, this setup is rife with dangers for naive followers 
should the Guru want to take advantage of them. History speaks for 
itself.
 Transliterated verse 174 states "Gurubhava (absorption in the Guru) 
is the most sacred place; every other place of pilgrimage is 
meaningless.  O Goddes, the big toe of the Rugu's (right) foot is the 
abode of all places of pilgrimage".
 Since the Neo-Advaitins aren't into Gurubhava, they have a different 
agenda.
 Ramana Maharshi didn't have a physical Guru but he visited the local 
Kali Temple on a regular basis after bathing in the river; and poured 
water on the Murti of the Deity.
 


-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  
wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > 
> > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > greater than
> > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > are!
> > > > 
> > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > 
> > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > shorter time.
> > > > 
> > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > people
> > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > that there
> > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > 
> > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater 
than the
> >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of 
all
> > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > 
> > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> >  
> > 
> Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to 
his ultra highness in 
> the months before he passed.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[feste37]

Another reason I fear I may miss this great occasion is that I have a
leather watchband, which is not permitted. I am one of those people
who has to know what time it is. If I don't know the time, I go
semi-crazy. It's approaching 12:45 now, so I guess this is one Guru
Purnima that will have to go on without me. But I am pleased it is
happening and that others will be there. These rituals do have
effects. I remember about 20 years ago, when I was living in an
apartment no more than 1/2 a mile from the dome, I forgot that it was
Guru Purnima. Then at about 9 or so that evening, I started to feel
very good -- calm and centered, mind absolutely clear, content. I
didn't get tired at all that evening and didn't go to bed until very
late. I felt completely different from my normal agitated state. At
some point I remembered that it was Guru Purnima. Maybe the same will
happen today, although I'm a little farther away. I don't think it
will affect you though, Sal, since I think you are beyond redemption
of any kind and happy to be so. Good luck with that!  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> On Jul 18, 2008, at 8:32 AM, feste37 wrote:
> 
> > Delighted to oblige. I would love to go to the celebration today, but
> > unfortunately leather belts are not permitted and I need one to hold
> > my trousers up. I would hate to embarrass myself in front of the
> > ladies on such a dignified occasion.
> 
> You don't need to, feste, you now have the total freedom to embarrass
> yourself in front of the men only.  :)  This just in:
> 
> 1. Announcement for Ladies for Guru Purnima
> 
>   It is a delight to announce that the Bagambhrini Golden Dome will  
> be open
> and connected to the Maharishi Patanjali Golden Dome for the Guru  
> Purnima
> celebration.
> 
>   Any ladies who would like to enjoy the celebration in the Ladies'  
> Dome are
> warmly invited. The connection will be a video connection.
> 
>   We would ask that the points mentioned for the Men's Dome apply to the
> Ladies' Dome as well (arrival time, dress, etc.).
> 
>   If you would like your fruit and flowers to be offered by the Vedic
> Pandits, please stop by the Men's Dome on your way to the Ladies'  
> Dome to be
> put them in the offerings receptacles in the lobby.
> 
> Whether or not this is doublespeak meaning that ladies are
> *required* to go to the ladies' dome or not (I wonder, where
> are the women supposed to go?) it's bound to mean that a few less
> ladies will be in the mens' dome.  So, courage, feste...sally forth! :)
> 
> Sal
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jul 18, 2008, at 12:41 PM, feste37 wrote:


Another reason I fear I may miss this great occasion is that I have a
leather watchband, which is not permitted. I am one of those people
who has to know what time it is. If I don't know the time, I go
semi-crazy. It's approaching 12:45 now, so I guess this is one Guru
Purnima that will have to go on without me. But I am pleased it is
happening and that others will be there. These rituals do have
effects. I remember about 20 years ago, when I was living in an
apartment no more than 1/2 a mile from the dome, I forgot that it was
Guru Purnima. Then at about 9 or so that evening, I started to feel
very good -- calm and centered, mind absolutely clear, content. I
didn't get tired at all that evening and didn't go to bed until very
late. I felt completely different from my normal agitated state. At
some point I remembered that it was Guru Purnima. Maybe the same will
happen today, although I'm a little farther away. I don't think it
will affect you though, Sal, since I think you are beyond redemption
of any kind and happy to be so. Good luck with that!


Correctamundo, feste!  JOOC, how far do the vibes
go, though, IYO?  I'm about a mile and a half from the dooms--
if I close my eyes, face east, try to think pure thoughts and
maybe throw some salt over my shoulder, will that make a
diff?

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[boo_lives]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> 
> Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru and Maharishi is the
> movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing greater than
> Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you are!

During mmy's last year or two, Bevan and the gang routinely referred
to him as "the greatest sage ever to walk the earth", which means that
was and is the official belief of the tmo approved by mmy.

> He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> 
> > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > shorter time.
> 
> He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some people
> too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe that there
> was nothing greater than him?  That people were achieving
> "enlightenment" in a sorter time.  That all people in history were
> searching for what he was offering?  That he alone in history was able
> to offer it to the world rather than a small group?
> 
> Still working on those question.
> 
I think mmy lived in a pretty insulated world, both externally and
internally, for many years there at the end and he may have actually
believed everything he and the tmo said.  I've heard reports that he
was genuinely surprised when hagelin didn't get elected president and
at other times when his absurd plans did not materialize.  I don't
think mmy took in much objective feedback for a long time and probably
thought like the bush official who scoffed at the notion of being
restricted somehow by "the reality-based world".

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

> I think mmy lived in a pretty insulated world, both externally and
> internally, for many years there at the end and he may have actually
> believed everything he and the tmo said.  I've heard reports that he
> was genuinely surprised when hagelin didn't get elected president
and > at other times when his absurd plans did not materialize.  I
don't > think mmy took in much objective feedback for a long time and
probably > thought like the bush official who scoffed at the notion of
being> restricted somehow by "the reality-based world".

Excellent analysis and comparison.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > 
> > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru and Maharishi is the
> > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing greater than
> > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you are!
> 
> During mmy's last year or two, Bevan and the gang routinely referred
> to him as "the greatest sage ever to walk the earth", which means that
> was and is the official belief of the tmo approved by mmy.
> 
> > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > 
> > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > shorter time.
> > 
> > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some people
> > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe that there
> > was nothing greater than him?  That people were achieving
> > "enlightenment" in a sorter time.  That all people in history were
> > searching for what he was offering?  That he alone in history was able
> > to offer it to the world rather than a small group?
> > 
> > Still working on those question.
> > 
> I think mmy lived in a pretty insulated world, both externally and
> internally, for many years there at the end and he may have actually
> believed everything he and the tmo said.  I've heard reports that he
> was genuinely surprised when hagelin didn't get elected president and
> at other times when his absurd plans did not materialize.  I don't
> think mmy took in much objective feedback for a long time and probably
> thought like the bush official who scoffed at the notion of being
> restricted somehow by "the reality-based world".
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[feste37]

I think you might have too much difficulty with the thinking pure
thoughts part. Wouldn't want you to strain. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> On Jul 18, 2008, at 12:41 PM, feste37 wrote:
> 
> > Another reason I fear I may miss this great occasion is that I have a
> > leather watchband, which is not permitted. I am one of those people
> > who has to know what time it is. If I don't know the time, I go
> > semi-crazy. It's approaching 12:45 now, so I guess this is one Guru
> > Purnima that will have to go on without me. But I am pleased it is
> > happening and that others will be there. These rituals do have
> > effects. I remember about 20 years ago, when I was living in an
> > apartment no more than 1/2 a mile from the dome, I forgot that it was
> > Guru Purnima. Then at about 9 or so that evening, I started to feel
> > very good -- calm and centered, mind absolutely clear, content. I
> > didn't get tired at all that evening and didn't go to bed until very
> > late. I felt completely different from my normal agitated state. At
> > some point I remembered that it was Guru Purnima. Maybe the same will
> > happen today, although I'm a little farther away. I don't think it
> > will affect you though, Sal, since I think you are beyond redemption
> > of any kind and happy to be so. Good luck with that!
> 
> Correctamundo, feste!  JOOC, how far do the vibes
> go, though, IYO?  I'm about a mile and a half from the dooms--
> if I close my eyes, face east, try to think pure thoughts and
> maybe throw some salt over my shoulder, will that make a
> diff?
> 
> Sal
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[yifuxero]

--right.  Take a look at one of his ridiculous projects: a Peace 
Palace in N. Korea!:

http://www.tinyurl.com/6hof9b


- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I think mmy lived in a pretty insulated world, both externally and
> > internally, for many years there at the end and he may have 
actually
> > believed everything he and the tmo said.  I've heard reports that 
he
> > was genuinely surprised when hagelin didn't get elected president
> and > at other times when his absurd plans did not materialize.  I
> don't > think mmy took in much objective feedback for a long time 
and
> probably > thought like the bush official who scoffed at the notion 
of
> being> restricted somehow by "the reality-based world".
> 
> Excellent analysis and comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > 
> > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru and Maharishi 
is the
> > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing greater than
> > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you are!
> > 
> > During mmy's last year or two, Bevan and the gang routinely 
referred
> > to him as "the greatest sage ever to walk the earth", which means 
that
> > was and is the official belief of the tmo approved by mmy.
> > 
> > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > 
> > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > shorter time.
> > > 
> > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some 
people
> > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe 
that there
> > > was nothing greater than him?  That people were achieving
> > > "enlightenment" in a sorter time.  That all people in history 
were
> > > searching for what he was offering?  That he alone in history 
was able
> > > to offer it to the world rather than a small group?
> > > 
> > > Still working on those question.
> > > 
> > I think mmy lived in a pretty insulated world, both externally and
> > internally, for many years there at the end and he may have 
actually
> > believed everything he and the tmo said.  I've heard reports that 
he
> > was genuinely surprised when hagelin didn't get elected president 
and
> > at other times when his absurd plans did not materialize.  I don't
> > think mmy took in much objective feedback for a long time and 
probably
> > thought like the bush official who scoffed at the notion of being
> > restricted somehow by "the reality-based world".
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] MMY + Shankara: The Guru-Disciple Relationship

[ve-da]

.



The Guru-Disciple Relationship


"In this path of the Divine as it is the case in any other path of knowledge, 
the importance of the Master is the greatest. If you get a good Master, it 
takes you quickly, if not  -  keep on going slowly, slowly and there is no end 
to it.  

The finding of a proper Master is all that an aspirant on the path of truth has 
to do  -  just a proper Master, not only on the path of truth, even on the path 
of engineering or doctory (medicine) or psychology  -  any of that  -  the 
coming across a right Master, a right guide and almost the whole thing is done. 
Because, the finding of a Master means someone who tells you like that  -  for 
the Divine is omnipresent. 

Omnipresent Divine, its nature blissful, so the bliss being omnipresent. How 
long a mind should take to get to it? Should not take long, but if you do not 
strike against the right Master, you keep on going round and round and round 
and you do not find anything. In this field when we leave here and find a 
proper Master, we just surrender to him, all body and mind, one-pointed in 
consciousness remains the individuality of the Master. No looking here or 
there, just at his feet obedience and obeisance. 

I know what a surrender to a Master is, because I have been through that. Once 
the surrender is done the work of spiritual quest is done. It does not need 
anything more to be done. You see, to meditate and transcend and get to the 
being and come out and with this practice bringing the mind out to the field of 
outer gross life is one way of achieving cosmic consciousness. The path of 
surrender is another way.  

The path of surrender starts by tuning the mind with the mind of the Master. 
Tuning the mind with the mind of the Master means: Whatever he likes, I begin 
to like. I begin to forgo my liking if he wants me to go that way, I go that 
way. And having gone halfway if he wants me to turn, I turn. And again he wants 
me to go that way, I go that way. If he wants to return I return. Nothing of my 
will everything His will. 

This is how by foregoing our own likings and disliking, adjusting our mind to 
the mind of the Master, that is picked up by the disciple, and that is the most 
important thing. If he asks to do this, you do this. If gone halfway, he wants 
us to stop, we stop. You don't feel in the least that 'Oh, so much effort has 
been put and now he wants me to stop!'  -  nothing like that. 

The way he turns, we turn, the way He likes, we like, the thing that He 
dislikes, we begin to dislike. This is how one begins to forego his liking and 
disliking and begins to tune his mind to the mind of his Master. In this line 
it is not the work that is important, it is the flow of His mind that is to be 
kept, and that is important. As the Master wants, so he moves, His likes and 
dislikes begin to become the likes and dislikes of the disciple. Like that he 
attunes his mind.   When the mind of the disciple is completely tuned to the 
mind of the Master, then the thoughts of the Master become the thoughts of the 
disciple. The feelings of the Master become the feelings of the disciple and 
when that attunement is gained  -  because the mind of the Master is cosmic 
consciousness  -  the status of the mind of the disciple gets to that standard 
automatically. 

The relationship of the disciple and the Master is  -  two bodies and one 
existence, two minds and one mind. Thus is how, because the natural state of 
the Master's mind is cosmic consciousness, the mind of the disciple is cultured 
to that state in a spontaneous, automatic manner."

-  Maharishi Mahesh Yogi


***

"There are three things which are rare indeed, and which are attained through 
the grace of god, namely, a human birth, desire for liberation, and the 
protecting care of a perfected sage." 

-  Shri Adi Shankara











JAI   GURU   DEV








...
-- 
GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen!
Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY + Shankara: The Guru-Disciple Relationship

[yifuxero]

--Right, but basically, "this" - the Path presented by MMY - is not a 
Guru-Bhakti path, as opposed to Muktananda's Path or Sant Mat.  It's 
a technique oriented path.  This is not to say that some Marshybots 
are not "devoted" to MMY as a Guru; but this could be merely a form 
of mood-making.
 In Muktananda's Path (if one looks closely at the recorded 
statements of Nityananda); or the Sant Math tradition; there's a 
particular part of their programs which distinguishes those 
traditions from what MMY is presenting: namely, one should hold 
attention on the Guru's form at the 3-rd eye center and delibertaly 
prevent the mind from being occupied by other thoughts. Don't let the 
mind wander.
 This strategy is obviously opposed to what's allowed to occur in TM.
One might make the claim that attempting to hold one's attention on a 
particular form at the 3-rd eye tends to prohibit "transcending".
Possibly. Or maybe there's a variation of the goal.


- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> .
> 
> 
> 
> The Guru-Disciple Relationship
> 
> 
> "In this path of the Divine as it is the case in any other path of 
knowledge, the importance of the Master is the greatest. If you get a 
good Master, it takes you quickly, if not  -  keep on going slowly, 
slowly and there is no end to it.  
> 
> The finding of a proper Master is all that an aspirant on the path 
of truth has to do  -  just a proper Master, not only on the path of 
truth, even on the path of engineering or doctory (medicine) or 
psychology  -  any of that  -  the coming across a right Master, a 
right guide and almost the whole thing is done. Because, the finding 
of a Master means someone who tells you like that  -  for the Divine 
is omnipresent. 
> 
> Omnipresent Divine, its nature blissful, so the bliss being 
omnipresent. How long a mind should take to get to it? Should not 
take long, but if you do not strike against the right Master, you 
keep on going round and round and round and you do not find anything. 
In this field when we leave here and find a proper Master, we just 
surrender to him, all body and mind, one-pointed in consciousness 
remains the individuality of the Master. No looking here or there, 
just at his feet obedience and obeisance. 
> 
> I know what a surrender to a Master is, because I have been through 
that. Once the surrender is done the work of spiritual quest is done. 
It does not need anything more to be done. You see, to meditate and 
transcend and get to the being and come out and with this practice 
bringing the mind out to the field of outer gross life is one way of 
achieving cosmic consciousness. The path of surrender is another 
way.  
> 
> The path of surrender starts by tuning the mind with the mind of 
the Master. Tuning the mind with the mind of the Master means: 
Whatever he likes, I begin to like. I begin to forgo my liking if he 
wants me to go that way, I go that way. And having gone halfway if he 
wants me to turn, I turn. And again he wants me to go that way, I go 
that way. If he wants to return I return. Nothing of my will 
everything His will. 
> 
> This is how by foregoing our own likings and disliking, adjusting 
our mind to the mind of the Master, that is picked up by the 
disciple, and that is the most important thing. If he asks to do 
this, you do this. If gone halfway, he wants us to stop, we stop. You 
don't feel in the least that 'Oh, so much effort has been put and now 
he wants me to stop!'  -  nothing like that. 
> 
> The way he turns, we turn, the way He likes, we like, the thing 
that He dislikes, we begin to dislike. This is how one begins to 
forego his liking and disliking and begins to tune his mind to the 
mind of his Master. In this line it is not the work that is 
important, it is the flow of His mind that is to be kept, and that is 
important. As the Master wants, so he moves, His likes and dislikes 
begin to become the likes and dislikes of the disciple. Like that he 
attunes his mind.   When the mind of the disciple is completely tuned 
to the mind of the Master, then the thoughts of the Master become the 
thoughts of the disciple. The feelings of the Master become the 
feelings of the disciple and when that attunement is gained  -  
because the mind of the Master is cosmic consciousness  -  the status 
of the mind of the disciple gets to that standard automatically. 
> 
> The relationship of the disciple and the Master is  -  two bodies 
and one existence, two minds and one mind. Thus is how, because the 
natural state of the Master's mind is cosmic consciousness, the mind 
of the disciple is cultured to that state in a spontaneous, automatic 
manner."
> 
> -  Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> "There are three things which are rare indeed, and which are 
attained through the grace of god, namely, a human birth, desire for 
liberation, and the protecting care of a perfected sage." 
> 
> -  Shri Adi Shankara
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JAI  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > 
> > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > greater than
> > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > are!
> > > > 
> > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > 
> > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > shorter time.
> > > > 
> > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > people
> > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > that there
> > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > 
> > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than the
> >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of all
> > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > 
> > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> >  
> > 
> Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to his ultra 
> highness in 
> the months before he passed.
>

More like days, I thought, and... its a nice busywork project for grieving 
followers, as Judy points out.



Not to mention, they're not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi towers, they're Maharishi 
Towers.

Goes back to letting "Maharishi" be used in the name of MUM and everything 
else: Its not just MMY who is being honored, but EVERY maharishi.

L.

[FairfieldLife] Any thots?

[cardemaister]

What do youse think of this:

http://www.swamij.com/om.htm 

?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> > Well, you could at least wave your bong. :)
> 
> Yeah, my custom made Maharishi Tower of Invincibility bong!
> 
> (about Jesus as all that quote):
> > Which I do think he said, but thats my opinion. I think the above is
> > the bastard child language of 2000 years of transmission over 5-6
> > languages -- and a big does of political manipulation.
> 
> Wow, and here I thought he was the savior of all mankind and that
> believing in him would grant me an immoral life!   What?  It was
> "immortal" life he was pitching? 

He always talked about physical immortality in conditional terms,
that I recall. Even the god Brahma has a finite lifespan, you know,
or so the Hindu religious tradition claims. Did you expect to live
longer than the creator of the universe?

 Damn, take my name off the list, I
> completely misunderstood what was being offered!  Immortality is like
> being 6th in a checkout line and the person at the cashier has a purse
> full of unsorted coupons and they are paying by check, but their
> address doesn't match, and every item requires a manager's price check.
> 
> Count me TF OUT! 
> 

Yes, Curtis, you DID tell Andrew Skolnick that you would have done anything 
for MMY, and I can understand that you are still bitter because you felt you  
were deceived

But not all TM teachers felt that way, and I believe that not all the recerts 
or 
even the rajahs  feel that way. I'd go so far as to suggest that even King Tony 
doesn't feel quite as fanatical about MMY as you did at one time.



Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > 
> > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru and Maharishi is the
> > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing greater than
> > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you are!
> > 
> A, you beat me to the punch on that one! Indeed. He had that rap down 
> cold all 
the 
> while knowing full well that his fawning hordes (including you and me) would 
> (nod, nod, 
> wink, wink) know that it was MMY who was the greatest, bestest and all around 
> highest 
of 
> them all!
>

Funny, I read the same words as you and I don't get MMY talking about
a personality at all. "Guru" is the abstract, not a relative manifestation. At 
best,
the personality is  the 25 percent fluctuations. The Guru is talking from the
75% level, not the 25%. Insomuch as MMY ever spoke from that level, than sure,
but I suspect he was thinking of HIS teacher when he spoke those words, not
himself. 


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  
wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > > greater than
> > > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > > are!
> > > > > 
> > > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > > shorter time.
> > > > > 
> > > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > > people
> > > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > > that there
> > > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > > 
> > > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater 
than the
> > >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality 
of all
> > > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > > 
> > > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> > >  
> > > 
> > Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to 
his ultra highness in 
> > the months before he passed.
> >
> 
> More like days, I thought, and... its a nice busywork project for 
grieving 
> followers, as Judy points out.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention, they're not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi towers, they're 
Maharishi 
> Towers.
> 
> Goes back to letting "Maharishi" be used in the name of MUM and 
everything 
> else: Its not just MMY who is being honored, but EVERY maharishi.

Another joke?

I know people in the TMO who thought that this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2qtAfMs2Tc

*Wasn't* about MMY.

[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY + Shankara: The Guru-Disciple Relationship

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --Right, but basically, "this" - the Path presented by MMY - is not a 
> Guru-Bhakti path, as opposed to Muktananda's Path or Sant Mat.  It's 
> a technique oriented path.  This is not to say that some Marshybots 
> are not "devoted" to MMY as a Guru; but this could be merely a form 
> of mood-making.
>  In Muktananda's Path (if one looks closely at the recorded 
> statements of Nityananda); or the Sant Math tradition; there's a 
> particular part of their programs which distinguishes those 
> traditions from what MMY is presenting: namely, one should hold 
> attention on the Guru's form at the 3-rd eye center and delibertaly 
> prevent the mind from being occupied by other thoughts. Don't let the 
> mind wander.
>  This strategy is obviously opposed to what's allowed to occur in TM.
> One might make the claim that attempting to hold one's attention on a 
> particular form at the 3-rd eye tends to prohibit "transcending".
> Possibly. Or maybe there's a variation of the goal.

Of course, transcending is not the goal of TM.

Its held to be the eventual outcome, of course, but in any given meditation 
session until the very last one before full enlightenment (and none of the
people tested by Fred Travis are fully enlightened by this criteria), one might
have never had a clear episode of transcending.

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

> Yes, Curtis, you DID tell Andrew Skolnick that you would have done
anything > for MMY, and I can understand that you are still bitter
because you felt you > were deceived

You haven't understood a single think I've written since I joined here
have you Lawson?  I would never sum up my experiences and
relationships with Maharishi as me being deceived or my feelings about
him as bitter.  But if thinking of me as bitter helps you keep your
beliefs in tact go for it.

> 
> But not all TM teachers felt that way, and I believe that not all
the recerts or > even the rajahs  feel that way. I'd go so far as to
suggest that even King Tony > doesn't feel quite as fanatical about
MMY as you did at one time.

Oh reaally.  Let me put this down in the WTF area, and just say
that I never wore a Burger King crown as he does, in PUBLIC. Thinking
of fulltime people as too fanatical for being on one of Maharishi's
strictest programs is very typical of people who never lived it that
way.  I'm glad I lived it as I did full tilt.  I never understood
people who believe in what Maharishi was offering and didn't go after
it with everything they had.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
 wrote:
> >
> > > Well, you could at least wave your bong. :)
> > 
> > Yeah, my custom made Maharishi Tower of Invincibility bong!
> > 
> > (about Jesus as all that quote):
> > > Which I do think he said, but thats my opinion. I think the above is
> > > the bastard child language of 2000 years of transmission over 5-6
> > > languages -- and a big does of political manipulation.
> > 
> > Wow, and here I thought he was the savior of all mankind and that
> > believing in him would grant me an immoral life!   What?  It was
> > "immortal" life he was pitching? 
> 
> He always talked about physical immortality in conditional terms,
> that I recall. Even the god Brahma has a finite lifespan, you know,
> or so the Hindu religious tradition claims. Did you expect to live
> longer than the creator of the universe?
> 
>  Damn, take my name off the list, I
> > completely misunderstood what was being offered!  Immortality is like
> > being 6th in a checkout line and the person at the cashier has a purse
> > full of unsorted coupons and they are paying by check, but their
> > address doesn't match, and every item requires a manager's price
check.
> > 
> > Count me TF OUT! 
> > 
> 

> 
> 
> 
> Lawson
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Any thots?

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> What do youse think of this:
> 
> http://www.swamij.com/om.htm 
> 
> ?
>

The upanishad itself is of interest,

http://www.swamij.com/om.htm#mandukya

but I think the commentary is off.

And this just gets silly, IMHO:

http://www.swamij.com/witnessing.htm

L.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> > Yes, Curtis, you DID tell Andrew Skolnick that you would have done
> anything > for MMY, and I can understand that you are still bitter
> because you felt you > were deceived
> 
> You haven't understood a single think I've written since I joined here
> have you Lawson?  I would never sum up my experiences and
> relationships with Maharishi as me being deceived or my feelings about
> him as bitter.  But if thinking of me as bitter helps you keep your
> beliefs in tact go for it.

LOL I recall what Skolnick quoted you as saying.

> 
> > 
> > But not all TM teachers felt that way, and I believe that not all
> the recerts or > even the rajahs  feel that way. I'd go so far as to
> suggest that even King Tony > doesn't feel quite as fanatical about
> MMY as you did at one time.
> 
> Oh reaally.  Let me put this down in the WTF area, and just say
> that I never wore a Burger King crown as he does, in PUBLIC. Thinking
> of fulltime people as too fanatical for being on one of Maharishi's
> strictest programs is very typical of people who never lived it that
> way.  I'm glad I lived it as I did full tilt.  I never understood
> people who believe in what Maharishi was offering and didn't go after
> it with everything they had.
> 
> 

Well, I just recall what one quite fanatical TM teacher told me once in
the context of the possibility of  MMY being hit by a car and other such things:

Maharishi isn't immune to Life.

Sounds to me like you thought he was.


L

> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, you could at least wave your bong. :)
> > > 
> > > Yeah, my custom made Maharishi Tower of Invincibility bong!
> > > 
> > > (about Jesus as all that quote):
> > > > Which I do think he said, but thats my opinion. I think the above is
> > > > the bastard child language of 2000 years of transmission over 5-6
> > > > languages -- and a big does of political manipulation.
> > > 
> > > Wow, and here I thought he was the savior of all mankind and that
> > > believing in him would grant me an immoral life!   What?  It was
> > > "immortal" life he was pitching? 
> > 
> > He always talked about physical immortality in conditional terms,
> > that I recall. Even the god Brahma has a finite lifespan, you know,
> > or so the Hindu religious tradition claims. Did you expect to live
> > longer than the creator of the universe?
> > 
> >  Damn, take my name off the list, I
> > > completely misunderstood what was being offered!  Immortality is like
> > > being 6th in a checkout line and the person at the cashier has a purse
> > > full of unsorted coupons and they are paying by check, but their
> > > address doesn't match, and every item requires a manager's price
> check.
> > > 
> > > Count me TF OUT! 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Lawson
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY + Shankara: The Guru-Disciple Relationship

[yifuxero]

---
(transcending not the goal of TM)...unless one wants that to be the 
goal. It may not be "supposed to" but for many it is.

 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero"  wrote:
> >
> > --Right, but basically, "this" - the Path presented by MMY - is 
not a 
> > Guru-Bhakti path, as opposed to Muktananda's Path or Sant Mat.  
It's 
> > a technique oriented path.  This is not to say that some 
Marshybots 
> > are not "devoted" to MMY as a Guru; but this could be merely a 
form 
> > of mood-making.
> >  In Muktananda's Path (if one looks closely at the recorded 
> > statements of Nityananda); or the Sant Math tradition; there's a 
> > particular part of their programs which distinguishes those 
> > traditions from what MMY is presenting: namely, one should hold 
> > attention on the Guru's form at the 3-rd eye center and 
delibertaly 
> > prevent the mind from being occupied by other thoughts. Don't let 
the 
> > mind wander.
> >  This strategy is obviously opposed to what's allowed to occur in 
TM.
> > One might make the claim that attempting to hold one's attention 
on a 
> > particular form at the 3-rd eye tends to prohibit "transcending".
> > Possibly. Or maybe there's a variation of the goal.
> 
> Of course, transcending is not the goal of TM.
> 
> Its held to be the eventual outcome, of course, but in any given 
meditation 
> session until the very last one before full enlightenment (and none 
of the
> people tested by Fred Travis are fully enlightened by this 
criteria), one might
> have never had a clear episode of transcending.
> 
> Lawson
>

[FairfieldLife] Maharishi's poem to Swami Muktananda

[yifuxero]

from "Baba Muktananda, A biography" by Swami Parkashananda, Sarasvati 
Productions, ISBN 978-1-886140-13-4, p. 271-272.

"On 26th of March [1977], Baba moved to a private bungalow on Juju 
Beach to recuperate".

...
...
"The day after his arrival, Maharishi Maehsh Yogi came to visit him.  
He and the Maharishi sat together outside in the garden for about 
half an hour. The Maharishi then had a poem read which he had written 
specifically for Baba.  Following are a few stanzas of the poem":

"I bow to you, Oh Muktananda
An austere being who always does good to others
You are the bliss of the Self
Bestower of supreme happiness
One without a second
Attainable only through subtle feeling
You are the peaceful Self.
Possessor of pure fame,
How wonderful!
As the ocean spreads its waters,
You are spreading consciousness to all the peoples of the world.
In this country and other countries
You have awakened the pure light of consciousness
in the minds of multitudes, through a simple and easy path.
This yogi Mahesh bows to Muktananda
The Bestower of good to others,
embodiment of sat, chit, and ananda
Pervading everywhere: up, down and around.

The previous year's meeting between Muktananda and Maharishi is 
mentioned on p.267:

"Baba also traveled to Germany and Switzerland on his European tour. 
On September 16th, in Seelisberg, Switzerland, Baba was welcomed at 
the International Headquarters of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's TM 
organization.  Baba had been invited by Mahesh Yogi and was greeted 
by brahmin priests chanting Vedic mantras.  The Maharishi garlanded 
Baba nd then placd him on a seat higher than his own and introduced 
him tot he crowd of 1500 by saying, "I am always thirsty to have the 
darshan of saints.  It is really a blessing that one of the great 
saints of India is visiting us today.  We hope to get something at 
his feet...Swamiji's field is consciousness, which is transcendental 
and in which everything grows...The Vedas talk about consciousness 
which created this world.  The same consciousness flows int he 
presence of Swamiji.  Today, you are getting the blessings of his 
presence".

"There is a difference between a Brahmachari (novice monk) and a 
Swami," continued the Maharishi.  A Brahmachari is one who practices 
and goes on practicing TM.  I am one such Brahmachari.  But a Swami 
is one who does not practice but flows in his own nature.  To flow in 
his own nature is the religion of a Swami...Muktananda is one such 
Swami".

"Baba graciously responded to the Maharishi's loving words by 
saying, "The meaning of the word Maharishi is 'great'. Our scriptures 
say that this world was created by seven great sages (Maharishi). 
Today, one such Maharishi has created a new world here, too."

"During their meeting, the Maharishi also invited Baba to be the 
spiritual advisor to his organization,  Baba was so moved by the 
Maharishi's affection and reverence, that he stepped down from his 
own seat and went and sat beside the Maharishi.  Afterward, at 
Maharishi's request, Baba and his group chanted the Guru Gita".

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > > greater than
> > > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > > are!
> > > > > 
> > > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > > shorter time.
> > > > > 
> > > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > > people
> > > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > > that there
> > > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > > 
> > > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than the
> > >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of all
> > > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > > 
> > > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> > >  
> > > 
> > Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to his ultra 
> > highness 
in 
> > the months before he passed.
> >
> 
> More like days, I thought, and... its a nice busywork project for grieving 
> followers, as Judy points out.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention, they're not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi towers, they're Maharishi 
> Towers.
> 
> Goes back to letting "Maharishi" be used in the name of MUM and everything 
> else: Its not just MMY who is being honored, but EVERY maharishi.
> 
> L.

C'mon Lawson. You and I both know we're talking about the one and only guy. The 
guy 
who's image is on anything and everything in the TMO.

When anyone here says "Maharishi" are you thinking of "all Maharishis"? No. 
You're 
thinking of one very specific guy.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[mainstream20016]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > > greater than
> > > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > > are!
> > > > > 
> > > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > > shorter time.
> > > > > 
> > > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > > people
> > > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > > that there
> > > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > > 
> > > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than the
> > >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of all
> > > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > > 
> > > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> > >  
> > > 
> > Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to his ultra 
> > highness 
in 
> > the months before he passed.
> >
> 
> More like days, I thought, and... its a nice busywork project for grieving 
> followers, as Judy points out.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to mention, they're not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi towers, they're Maharishi 
> Towers.
> 
> Goes back to letting "Maharishi" be used in the name of MUM and everything 
> else: Its not just MMY who is being honored, but EVERY maharishi.
> 
> L.
>

MMY was way cool in that he seemed to know just how many days he had left.  He 
called 
the Rajas together last November and apparently went over in minute detail  how 
he 
wanted the TMO to function after the fact.  Although I disagree with many of 
his directives, 
he was very together and responsible by going through the process .  He 
likewise 
continued contact with the outside world as long as physically possible.  The 
guy never 
gave up.  At the end, the TMO was a shadow of its long-gone former self. The 
vast 
majority of the  physical MTOI  monuments are obscurely placed and will likely 
not survive 
two decades. His request for the MTOIs was rather benign and if he had been 
given the 
choice between a vibrant relevant TMO  as his legacy, as opposed to MTOIs, I'm 
confident 
he would have chose a vibrant TMO as his legacy instead of aggrandizing MTOIs.  
Make no 
befuddled mistake, the MTOIs specifically honor MMY - not generic Maharishis.  
I am 
profoundly unimpressed by Lawson assertions otherwise. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

 I'm about a mile and a half from the dooms--
> if I close my eyes, face east, try to think pure thoughts and
> maybe throw some salt over my shoulder, will that make a
> diff?
> 
> Sal

Without a positive bone in your body positive thoughts are for you just 
a dream. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

> Well, I just recall what one quite fanatical TM teacher told me once in
> the context of the possibility of  MMY being hit by a car and other
such things:
> 
> Maharishi isn't immune to Life.
> 
> Sounds to me like you thought he was.

I don't know what "immune to life" means.  Do you?

My beliefs were no different in nature or degree to anyone with my
movement educational background and commitment in his full time
organization. 

I think you would rather focus on Maharishi's detractors than follow
his teaching or do his programs.  Your rancor towards me has nothing
to do with preserving his teaching or positive memory.






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
 wrote:
> >
> > > Yes, Curtis, you DID tell Andrew Skolnick that you would have done
> > anything > for MMY, and I can understand that you are still bitter
> > because you felt you > were deceived
> > 
> > You haven't understood a single think I've written since I joined here
> > have you Lawson?  I would never sum up my experiences and
> > relationships with Maharishi as me being deceived or my feelings about
> > him as bitter.  But if thinking of me as bitter helps you keep your
> > beliefs in tact go for it.
> 
> LOL I recall what Skolnick quoted you as saying.
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > But not all TM teachers felt that way, and I believe that not all
> > the recerts or > even the rajahs  feel that way. I'd go so far as to
> > suggest that even King Tony > doesn't feel quite as fanatical about
> > MMY as you did at one time.
> > 
> > Oh reaally.  Let me put this down in the WTF area, and just say
> > that I never wore a Burger King crown as he does, in PUBLIC. Thinking
> > of fulltime people as too fanatical for being on one of Maharishi's
> > strictest programs is very typical of people who never lived it that
> > way.  I'm glad I lived it as I did full tilt.  I never understood
> > people who believe in what Maharishi was offering and didn't go after
> > it with everything they had.
> > 
> > 
> 
> Well, I just recall what one quite fanatical TM teacher told me once in
> the context of the possibility of  MMY being hit by a car and other
such things:
> 
> Maharishi isn't immune to Life.
> 
> Sounds to me like you thought he was.
> 
> 
> L
> 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Well, you could at least wave your bong. :)
> > > > 
> > > > Yeah, my custom made Maharishi Tower of Invincibility bong!
> > > > 
> > > > (about Jesus as all that quote):
> > > > > Which I do think he said, but thats my opinion. I think the
above is
> > > > > the bastard child language of 2000 years of transmission
over 5-6
> > > > > languages -- and a big does of political manipulation.
> > > > 
> > > > Wow, and here I thought he was the savior of all mankind and that
> > > > believing in him would grant me an immoral life!   What?  It was
> > > > "immortal" life he was pitching? 
> > > 
> > > He always talked about physical immortality in conditional terms,
> > > that I recall. Even the god Brahma has a finite lifespan, you know,
> > > or so the Hindu religious tradition claims. Did you expect to live
> > > longer than the creator of the universe?
> > > 
> > >  Damn, take my name off the list, I
> > > > completely misunderstood what was being offered!  Immortality
is like
> > > > being 6th in a checkout line and the person at the cashier has
a purse
> > > > full of unsorted coupons and they are paying by check, but their
> > > > address doesn't match, and every item requires a manager's price
> > check.
> > > > 
> > > > Count me TF OUT! 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Lawson
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[Richard J. Williams]

geezer wrote:
> You and I both know we're talking about 
> the one and only guy. The guy who's image 
> is on anything and everything in the TMO.
> 
> When anyone here says "Maharishi" are you 
> thinking of "all Maharishis"? No. You're 
> thinking of one very specific guy.
>
Well, I guess if he had wanted his name
all over the place, he would have called
all those products and projects by his
real name - Mahesh, or Varma, or Srivastava.

So, was his name 'Maharishi'? I don't think
so. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[R.G.]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  
> wrote:
> 
>  I'm about a mile and a half from the dooms--
> > if I close my eyes, face east, try to think pure thoughts and
> > maybe throw some salt over my shoulder, will that make a
> > diff?
> > 
> > Sal
> 
> Without a positive bone in your body positive thoughts are for you just 
> a dream.
>
Do you feel the 'Parting of the Sea?'

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[Richard J. Williams]

Sal wrote:
> I'm about a mile and a half from the dooms--
>
For what purpose are you about a mile and a
half from the domes? Are there any good paying
jobs up there? I mean, if you're up there,
there must be a reason why you've been about
a mile and a half from the domes all these
years. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY + Shankara: The Guru-Disciple Relationship

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ---
> (transcending not the goal of TM)...unless one wants that to be the 
> goal. It may not be "supposed to" but for many it is.
> 

So much for killing the buddha if you meet him on the road.

MMY goes into great detail in the SCI lectures about why it doesn't matter
if you're not trasncending, and of course, if you have a goal, its no longer
innocent and effortless...


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > > > greater than
> > > > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > > > are!
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > > > shorter time.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > > > people
> > > > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > > > that there
> > > > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > > > 
> > > > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than the
> > > >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of all
> > > > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > > > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > > > 
> > > > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to his 
> > > ultra 
highness 
> in 
> > > the months before he passed.
> > >
> > 
> > More like days, I thought, and... its a nice busywork project for grieving 
> > followers, as Judy points out.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Not to mention, they're not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi towers, they're Maharishi 
> > Towers.
> > 
> > Goes back to letting "Maharishi" be used in the name of MUM and everything 
> > else: Its not just MMY who is being honored, but EVERY maharishi.
> > 
> > L.
> 
> C'mon Lawson. You and I both know we're talking about the one and only guy. 
> The guy 
> who's image is on anything and everything in the TMO.
> 
> When anyone here says "Maharishi" are you thinking of "all Maharishis"? No. 
> You're 
> thinking of one very specific guy.
>

Sure, but in the long run, who wil remember the short guy? They'll just see 
"Maharishi" and 
think its a brand name for clothing.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mainstream20016" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > > > greater than
> > > > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > > > are!
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > > > shorter time.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > > > people
> > > > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > > > that there
> > > > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > > > 
> > > > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than the
> > > >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of all
> > > > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > > > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > > > 
> > > > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to his 
> > > ultra 
highness 
> in 
> > > the months before he passed.
> > >
> > 
> > More like days, I thought, and... its a nice busywork project for grieving 
> > followers, as Judy points out.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Not to mention, they're not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi towers, they're Maharishi 
> > Towers.
> > 
> > Goes back to letting "Maharishi" be used in the name of MUM and everything 
> > else: Its not just MMY who is being honored, but EVERY maharishi.
> > 
> > L.
> >
> 
> MMY was way cool in that he seemed to know just how many days he had left.  
> He called 
> the Rajas together last November and apparently went over in minute detail  
> how he 
> wanted the TMO to function after the fact.  Although I disagree with many of 
> his 
directives, 
> he was very together and responsible by going through the process .  He 
> likewise 
> continued contact with the outside world as long as physically possible.  The 
> guy never 
> gave up.  At the end, the TMO was a shadow of its long-gone former self. The 
> vast 
> majority of the  physical MTOI  monuments are obscurely placed and will 
> likely not 
survive 
> two decades. His request for the MTOIs was rather benign and if he had been 
> given the 
> choice between a vibrant relevant TMO  as his legacy, as opposed to MTOIs, 
> I'm 
confident 
> he would have chose a vibrant TMO as his legacy instead of aggrandizing 
> MTOIs.  Make 
no 
> befuddled mistake, the MTOIs specifically honor MMY - not generic Maharishis. 
>  I am 
> profoundly unimpressed by Lawson assertions otherwise.
>

I'm aware of what he asked, but again, it doesn't matter. Maharishi Pants 
Towers of 
Invincibility. Big whoop.

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> > Well, I just recall what one quite fanatical TM teacher told me once in
> > the context of the possibility of  MMY being hit by a car and other
> such things:
> > 
> > Maharishi isn't immune to Life.
> > 
> > Sounds to me like you thought he was.
> 
> I don't know what "immune to life" means.  Do you?
> 

Physical immortality, for one thing.

> My beliefs were no different in nature or degree to anyone with my
> movement educational background and commitment in his full time
> organization. 

Really? I met people with all sorts of background and levels of commitment
over the years. Many are still with the TMO and most don't do the rhetorical
thing to the extent you former True Believers claim to have.

> 
> I think you would rather focus on Maharishi's detractors than follow
> his teaching or do his programs.  Your rancor towards me has nothing
> to do with preserving his teaching or positive memory.
> 
> 

I'd say that you have more issues here than I.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
 wrote:
> >
> > > Well, I just recall what one quite fanatical TM teacher told me
once in
> > > the context of the possibility of  MMY being hit by a car and other
> > such things:
> > > 
> > > Maharishi isn't immune to Life.
> > > 
> > > Sounds to me like you thought he was.
> > 
> > I don't know what "immune to life" means.  Do you?
> > 
> 
> Physical immortality, for one thing.

King Tony believes he is guiding the movement from his grave in
heaven.  I do not.

> 
> > My beliefs were no different in nature or degree to anyone with my
> > movement educational background and commitment in his full time
> > organization. 
> 
> Really? I met people with all sorts of background and levels of
commitment
> over the years. Many are still with the TMO and most don't do the
rhetorical> thing to the extent you former True Believers claim to have.

You are speaking your own language here.  Your judgments about a
person's you never met from over two decades ago is an odd game IMO. 
Trying to make me "wrong" in the past is very very fey.

> 
> > 
> > I think you would rather focus on Maharishi's detractors than follow
> > his teaching or do his programs.  Your rancor towards me has nothing
> > to do with preserving his teaching or positive memory.
> > 
> > 
> 
> I'd say that you have more issues here than I.

Well there you go.  I guess that says it all now doesn't it.

Let's recap:

I was more fanatical in my devotion to Maharishi over two decades ago
than King Tony is now. (Plus my beliefs were "wronger", right?)

I have more "issues" here than Lawson does as computed by the Lawson
metric of pulling claims and accusations out of his non-flying butt.


Do I have that right?



> 
> 
> Lawson
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, I just recall what one quite fanatical TM teacher told me
> once in
> > > > the context of the possibility of  MMY being hit by a car and other
> > > such things:
> > > > 
> > > > Maharishi isn't immune to Life.
> > > > 
> > > > Sounds to me like you thought he was.
> > > 
> > > I don't know what "immune to life" means.  Do you?
> > > 
> > 
> > Physical immortality, for one thing.
> 
> King Tony believes he is guiding the movement from his grave in
> heaven.  I do not.
> 
> > 
> > > My beliefs were no different in nature or degree to anyone with my
> > > movement educational background and commitment in his full time
> > > organization. 
> > 
> > Really? I met people with all sorts of background and levels of
> commitment
> > over the years. Many are still with the TMO and most don't do the
> rhetorical> thing to the extent you former True Believers claim to have.
> 
> You are speaking your own language here.  Your judgments about a
> person's you never met from over two decades ago is an odd game IMO. 
> Trying to make me "wrong" in the past is very very fey.
> 

I'm going by your own rhetoric, dude. What you have said about your beliefs
while you were still an active participant in the TM organization.

> > 
> > > 
> > > I think you would rather focus on Maharishi's detractors than follow
> > > his teaching or do his programs.  Your rancor towards me has nothing
> > > to do with preserving his teaching or positive memory.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > I'd say that you have more issues here than I.
> 
> Well there you go.  I guess that says it all now doesn't it.
> 
> Let's recap:
> 
> I was more fanatical in my devotion to Maharishi over two decades ago
> than King Tony is now. (Plus my beliefs were "wronger", right?)
> 

I don't think King Tony expected MMY to live forever. Certainly not the last
few weeks of his life, I don't.


> I have more "issues" here than Lawson does as computed by the Lawson
> metric of pulling claims and accusations out of his non-flying butt.
> 

You're getting amazingly hostile at me for suggesting that maybe your were
above average in your obsession with TM and MMY's divinity  and projected it 
onto everyone else around you.

> 
> Do I have that right?

We will agree to disagree about what we're gathering from each other's
words.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY + Shankara: The Guru-Disciple Relationship

[yifuxero]

---TM: "innocent and effortless"  That's a fantasy, since one's 
Sadhana and personal evolution in the long run, as a whole package 
deal; requires a lot of effort.  


In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero"  wrote:
> >
> > ---
> > (transcending not the goal of TM)...unless one wants that to be 
the 
> > goal. It may not be "supposed to" but for many it is.
> > 
> 
> So much for killing the buddha if you meet him on the road.
> 
> MMY goes into great detail in the SCI lectures about why it doesn't 
matter
> if you're not trasncending, and of course, if you have a goal, its 
no longer
> innocent and effortless...
> 
> 
> Lawson
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY + Shankara: The Guru-Disciple Relationship

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ---TM: "innocent and effortless"  That's a fantasy, since one's 
> Sadhana and personal evolution in the long run, as a whole package 
> deal; requires a lot of effort.  
> 

Finding time to meditate can take effort. Meditation itself, on the other 
hand...

ANd MMY's point about CC is that it isn't a big deal. It requires no effort
to become normal, though you can certainly speed up the process by
engaing in healthy activities, and you can delay the process past this
[and many other lifetimes if you believe int hat kind of thing] by choosing 
sufficiently unhealthy practices to engage in. Hence, teh comment about 
practicing the religion you learned at your mother's knee. That is the whole 
of the religious teaching of TM.

L

> 
> In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero"  wrote:
> > >
> > > ---
> > > (transcending not the goal of TM)...unless one wants that to be 
> the 
> > > goal. It may not be "supposed to" but for many it is.
> > > 
> > 
> > So much for killing the buddha if you meet him on the road.
> > 
> > MMY goes into great detail in the SCI lectures about why it doesn't 
> matter
> > if you're not trasncending, and of course, if you have a goal, its 
> no longer
> > innocent and effortless...
> > 
> > 
> > Lawson
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> geezer wrote:
> > You and I both know we're talking about 
> > the one and only guy. The guy who's image 
> > is on anything and everything in the TMO.
> > 
> > When anyone here says "Maharishi" are you 
> > thinking of "all Maharishis"? No. You're 
> > thinking of one very specific guy.
> >
> Well, I guess if he had wanted his name
> all over the place, he would have called
> all those products and projects by his
> real name - Mahesh, or Varma, or Srivastava.
> 
> So, was his name 'Maharishi'? I don't think
> so.
>
Pure delusion. Maharishi is what EVERYBODY called him and what he called 
himself. Ever 
try calling him "Mahesh"? No I didn't think so.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[geezerfreak]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > > > > greater than
> > > > > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > > > > are!
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > > > > shorter time.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > > > > that there
> > > > > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > > > > 
> > > > > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than the
> > > > >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of all
> > > > > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > > > > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> > > > >  
> > > > > 
> > > > Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to his 
> > > > ultra 
> highness 
> > in 
> > > > the months before he passed.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > More like days, I thought, and... its a nice busywork project for 
> > > grieving 
> > > followers, as Judy points out.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Not to mention, they're not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi towers, they're 
> > > Maharishi 
> > > Towers.
> > > 
> > > Goes back to letting "Maharishi" be used in the name of MUM and 
> > > everything 
> > > else: Its not just MMY who is being honored, but EVERY maharishi.
> > > 
> > > L.
> > 
> > C'mon Lawson. You and I both know we're talking about the one and only guy. 
> > The 
guy 
> > who's image is on anything and everything in the TMO.
> > 
> > When anyone here says "Maharishi" are you thinking of "all Maharishis"? No. 
> > You're 
> > thinking of one very specific guy.
> >
> 
> Sure, but in the long run, who wil remember the short guy? They'll just see 
> "Maharishi" 
and 
> think its a brand name for clothing.
> 
> 
> Lawson
>
Again pure delusion. They'll think of the bearded guy who is pictured on 
practically 
everything that comes out of the TMO.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  wrote:
> >
> > geezer wrote:
> > > You and I both know we're talking about 
> > > the one and only guy. The guy who's image 
> > > is on anything and everything in the TMO.
> > > 
> > > When anyone here says "Maharishi" are you 
> > > thinking of "all Maharishis"? No. You're 
> > > thinking of one very specific guy.
> > >
> > Well, I guess if he had wanted his name
> > all over the place, he would have called
> > all those products and projects by his
> > real name - Mahesh, or Varma, or Srivastava.
> > 
> > So, was his name 'Maharishi'? I don't think
> > so.
> >
> Pure delusion. Maharishi is what EVERYBODY called him and what he called 
> himself. Ever 
> try calling him "Mahesh"? No I didn't think so.
>

Like I said, to the True Believers, it will matter. For the rest of the world, 
they'll think they 
have a local Pants factory.

And a few of us, just might remember what the old dude said and take him at his 
word

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/18/08, curtisdeltablues  wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues 
> > > > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru
> > > > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 10:05 AM
> > > > > > > > There is nothing greater than Guru; 
> > > > > > > > > there is nothing greater than Guru; there is 
> > > > > > > > > nothing greater than Guru, because Guru is the 
> > > > > > > > > embodiment of all that is greatest.  
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Let's see now...so Guru Dev was Maharishi's Guru
> > > > > > > > and Maharishi is the
> > > > > > > > movement's Guru...oh I get it!  There is nothing
> > > > > > > > greater than
> > > > > > > > Maharishi!  Nice one, teaching us how utterly fabulous you
> > > > > > > > are!
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > He taught me how to treat him.  And I did...for a while.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > We are announcing a very, very effective program 
> > > > > > > > > where the achievements will be a matter of much 
> > > > > > > > > shorter time.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > He ran that one till his last breath.  Still worked on some
> > > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > too.  My feelings on that are mixed.  Did he really believe
> > > > > > > > that there
> > > > > > > > was nothing greater than him?  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > No, of course not. He believed that there was nothing greater than 
> > > > > > the
> > > > > >  Totality that he lived. And nothing greater that the totality of 
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > others living Totality. Nothing greater than Amma, Mother Meera,
> > > > > > Ramana, SSRS, and many "others".
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sort of by definition, there is nothing greater than Totality. 
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > Right. And that's why he asked for giant monuments to be built to his 
> > > > > ultra 
> > highness 
> > > in 
> > > > > the months before he passed.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > More like days, I thought, and... its a nice busywork project for 
> > > > grieving 
> > > > followers, as Judy points out.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Not to mention, they're not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi towers, they're 
> > > > Maharishi 
> > > > Towers.
> > > > 
> > > > Goes back to letting "Maharishi" be used in the name of MUM and 
> > > > everything 
> > > > else: Its not just MMY who is being honored, but EVERY maharishi.
> > > > 
> > > > L.
> > > 
> > > C'mon Lawson. You and I both know we're talking about the one and only 
> > > guy. The 
> guy 
> > > who's image is on anything and everything in the TMO.
> > > 
> > > When anyone here says "Maharishi" are you thinking of "all Maharishis"? 
> > > No. You're 
> > > thinking of one very specific guy.
> > >
> > 
> > Sure, but in the long run, who wil remember the short guy? They'll just see 
> > "Maharishi" 
> and 
> > think its a brand name for clothing.
> > 
> > 
> > Lawson
> >
> Again pure delusion. They'll think of the bearded guy who is pictured on 
> practically 
> everything that comes out of the TMO.
>

Santa?

L.

[FairfieldLife] Raja Ram speaking now

[nablusoss1008]

http://maharishichannel.org/

[FairfieldLife] New Toy

[bhairitu]

Always one to get new toys to play with, I'm typing this from the
latest addition to my computer family: an ASUS Eee PC 2G Surf running
Linux.  The keyboard is going to take a little getting used to as this
unit is small with a 7" screen and small keyboard. It has built-in
wifi and will be handy around the house instead of one of my Windows
based laptop because this one boots up in about 30 seconds.  It will
also be great for traveling.
http://eeepc.asus.com/global/

[FairfieldLife] Guru Purhmina 2008, historical videos

[nablusoss1008]

While the Buddhist's of the "Dalai Lama" continue to kill each other, 
supported by the Turq and "Vaj", the Guru Purnimah celebrations with 
historical videos by Maharishi are shown now:

http://maharishichannel.org/
channel 3

[FairfieldLife] "Obama is my slave"

[bob_brigante]

http://www.heebmagazine.com/blog/view/868

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[Bhairitu]

No one went over for the second week in a row.
Yahoo Groups Post Counter
=
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-- Searching...

720 messages as of (UTC) Fri Jul 18 23:35:54 2008
Member   Posts

nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 50
TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>50
"authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  50
"shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 45
Bhairitu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>38
"R.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>37
Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 31
"Richard J. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   30
"curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  30
Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   27
"Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>27
"yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  22
Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 22
cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  21
off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  20
ruthsimplicity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>20
"sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>20
"Hugo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>16
"new.morning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 16
"geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>14
Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>11
"lurkernomore20002000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  11
"BillyG." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  9
bettyblue109 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  9
"feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>8
"John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>8
"Tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 8
bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  7
"wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>6
"Richard M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 6
satvadude108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  5
"do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  5
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 1
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's poem to Swami Muktananda

[pranamoocher]

...And then Baba went off the deep end...

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> from "Baba Muktananda, A biography" by Swami Parkashananda, Sarasvati
> Productions, ISBN 978-1-886140-13-4, p. 271-272.
>
> "On 26th of March [1977], Baba moved to a private bungalow on Juju
> Beach to recuperate".
>
> ...
> ...
> "The day after his arrival, Maharishi Maehsh Yogi came to visit him.
> He and the Maharishi sat together outside in the garden for about
> half an hour. The Maharishi then had a poem read which he had written
> specifically for Baba.  Following are a few stanzas of the poem":
>
> "I bow to you, Oh Muktananda
> An austere being who always does good to others
> You are the bliss of the Self
> Bestower of supreme happiness
> One without a second
> Attainable only through subtle feeling
> You are the peaceful Self.
> Possessor of pure fame,
> How wonderful!
> As the ocean spreads its waters,
> You are spreading consciousness to all the peoples of the world.
> In this country and other countries
> You have awakened the pure light of consciousness
> in the minds of multitudes, through a simple and easy path.
> This yogi Mahesh bows to Muktananda
> The Bestower of good to others,
> embodiment of sat, chit, and ananda
> Pervading everywhere: up, down and around.
>
> The previous year's meeting between Muktananda and Maharishi is
> mentioned on p.267:
>
> "Baba also traveled to Germany and Switzerland on his European tour.
> On September 16th, in Seelisberg, Switzerland, Baba was welcomed at
> the International Headquarters of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's TM
> organization.  Baba had been invited by Mahesh Yogi and was greeted
> by brahmin priests chanting Vedic mantras.  The Maharishi garlanded
> Baba nd then placd him on a seat higher than his own and introduced
> him tot he crowd of 1500 by saying, "I am always thirsty to have the
> darshan of saints.  It is really a blessing that one of the great
> saints of India is visiting us today.  We hope to get something at
> his feet...Swamiji's field is consciousness, which is transcendental
> and in which everything grows...The Vedas talk about consciousness
> which created this world.  The same consciousness flows int he
> presence of Swamiji.  Today, you are getting the blessings of his
> presence".
>
> "There is a difference between a Brahmachari (novice monk) and a
> Swami," continued the Maharishi.  A Brahmachari is one who practices
> and goes on practicing TM.  I am one such Brahmachari.  But a Swami
> is one who does not practice but flows in his own nature.  To flow in
> his own nature is the religion of a Swami...Muktananda is one such
> Swami".
>
> "Baba graciously responded to the Maharishi's loving words by
> saying, "The meaning of the word Maharishi is 'great'. Our scriptures
> say that this world was created by seven great sages (Maharishi).
> Today, one such Maharishi has created a new world here, too."
>
> "During their meeting, the Maharishi also invited Baba to be the
> spiritual advisor to his organization,  Baba was so moved by the
> Maharishi's affection and reverence, that he stepped down from his
> own seat and went and sat beside the Maharishi.  Afterward, at
> Maharishi's request, Baba and his group chanted the Guru Gita".
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi on role of the Guru

[pranamoocher]

Way Cool, Dude!
> MMY was way cool in that he seemed to know just how many days he had
left.  He called
> the Rajas together last November and apparently went over in minute
detail  how he
> wanted the TMO to function after the fact.  Although I disagree with
many of his directives,
> he was very together and responsible by going through the process . 
He likewise
> continued contact with the outside world as long as physically
possible.  The guy never
> gave up.  At the end, the TMO was a shadow of its long-gone former
self. The vast
> majority of the  physical MTOI  monuments are obscurely placed and
will likely not survive
> two decades. His request for the MTOIs was rather benign and if he had
been given the
> choice between a vibrant relevant TMO  as his legacy, as opposed to
MTOIs, I'm confident
> he would have chose a vibrant TMO as his legacy instead of
aggrandizing MTOIs.  Make no
> befuddled mistake, the MTOIs specifically honor MMY - not generic
Maharishis.  I am
> profoundly unimpressed by Lawson assertions otherwise.
>

[FairfieldLife] Maharish Patanjali Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge and Temple

[The Secret]

Today the pundits came to the Gold Dome for Guru Purnima.  It was very
joyous and the fliers who stayed to do program felt the upliftment,
the bliss, the sacredness of doing program where the pundits had been
an in an actual temple.

I apologize if this news has already been posted.  Using the Web based
interface to page through messages isn't that productive in finding
messages and frankly the search function sucks.  

I'm The Secret and I approve this message. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Guru Purnima Celebrations - Friday, 12:45pm & 8:15pm

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > I'm all for self-mockery, but I don't think
> > that's what's going on here, for the most part. 
> > 
> Feste, you're all for "self mockery"? Really? Can you 
> give some examples as it relates to the TMO? Humor and
> the ability to laugh at oneself are all important 
> aspects of personal growth IMO.

I've got one. I told it before here awhile
ago, but it's one of my favorite TM-related
stories and very germane in this context:

I was at the TM facility in Asbury Park some years back;
it was a pretty fancy hotel that the TMO had bought and
was running *as* a hotel for regular guests, as well as
housing various TM administrative folks and course
participants.

The TMers' food was prepared in the downstairs kitchen,
all vegetarian, but there was a bigger kitchen upstairs
that cooked for the guests.

One night I was sitting at a table of TM-lifers during
dinner. The hotel was hosting a big Bar Mitzvah bash.
One of the MA-V technicians, a big galoot of a guy
with a heart of gold who regarded the bliss-ninnies
with good-humored bepuzzlement, had gone up to the
guest kitchen to see if he could cadge some real
food from one of the cooking staff, a friend of his.

So we were sitting there eating our lentils and rice
and curried cauliflower, and he walked back into the
dining room bearing a big platter. He came up to the
table and set down the plate, on which rested a
gigantic hunk of very rare steak.

Well, you'd have thought there was a severed human
hand on the plate. The TM-lifers all gasped audibly,
and one of the more delicate of the ladies actually
gave out a little shriek. This was totally
spontaneous; these folks probably hadn't even laid
eyes on a piece of meat for years, and that bloody
slab must really have been kind of a shocking sight.

The poor MA-V tech was bewildered. Then everybody
started laughing, practically falling out of their
chairs. We laughed until we cried--including the MA-V
guy, once he realized folks weren't laughing at *him*
but at their own reaction to his dinner.

It was one of the best group laughs I've ever had
the pleasure to participate in.