[FairfieldLife] Origin of bija mantras

[William]

For what it is worth, the most trusted yoga scholar I know is Dr. Georg 
Feurstein and according to him bija mantras are first found in the brahmanas, 
where they are associated with specific deities (Georg Feurstein, "Tantra: Path 
of Ecstasy", 16.) 

[FairfieldLife] Re: "Trading a Diamond for a Lump of Spinach"

[William]

After getting a human body, if you don't reach God, then you have sold a 
diamond at the price of spinach.

See:http://www.sagevid.se/swami-brahmananda-saraswati.html

Bill

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> Anybody have the text of this Guru Dev quote?
> Thanks,
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Tale Of Four "Enlightened" People

[William]

I think that this "tale" points out the short comings of the TM teachings and 
path. The focus is so much on personal experience that those who have some 
experience or perception out of the ordinary, feel special. This specialness 
and achievement is a focus of the TM philosophy. What would you expect to 
happen? Most true spiritual teachings teach humility and compassion, if you 
have "experiences" you should keep them to yourself or maybe share them with 
your teacher. This focus on experience and achievement increases ego and 
narcissism. 

The experiences, perceptions and realizations can be true, how we relate to 
them and process them makes all the difference.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> The example of a possibly enlightened person being featured in a weekly
> TV series on national television in the US presents us with a remarkable
> opportunity. In "Enlightened," the character of Amy shows us a person
> who was obviously, certifiably crazy (she was, in fact, "certified" --
> legally forced to seek therapy) having a subjective experience that she
> associates with "enlightenment," and then afterwards expects people
> around her to react to how she feels "inside" rather than how she acts
> on the outside, in real life. She considers herself an "agent of
> change," and expects everyone around her TO change, just as a result of
> coming into contact with her.
> 
> I think this fictional situation really begs to be compared TO real
> life, and how three other people have "acted on the outside" in real
> life, both in Fairfield and here on FFL. Let's compare Amy to Robin,
> Jim, and Ravi.
> 
> Robin is pretty much yer classic "spiritual crazy." Back in the day, he
> had some subjective experiences that he interpreted as enlightenment,
> and felt (and acted) as if everyone around him should react to his
> pronouncement of his own enlightenment not only as if him saying it was
> true made it true, but as if now he was some kind of "special" person,
> one whose words had "weight," and should be listened to and paid
> attention to as if he were really, really, REALLY special -- one of the
> enlightened whose wordiness is next to Godliness.
> 
> We all know how that worked out. Most people laughed at him. Heck, even
> Maharishi -- who he was expecting to climb onto the "Robin is
> enlightened" bus and support him -- regarded him as a crazy person. So
> how did he react to that? He acted even crazier. We are talking, after
> all, about someone so crazy and so convinced that everyone should regard
> what he said as Truth that he rented a plane and dropped leaflets of his
> own tracts on MIU. Crazy. Bedbug crazy. And now, years later, having
> disavowed the "enlightened" thang but still as narcissistic as it gets
> and still as convinced of his own specialnessitude, he writes long,
> long, long solipcistic tracts here and *still* expects everyone to not
> only read them, but treat them as the Truth he is convinced they are. If
> anyone (such as myself, or Tom, or others) suggests that he's still more
> than a little bedbug crazy, he lashes out at them and tries to portray
> them negatively and demonize them. THIS is the model of "enlightened
> behavior" that Robin presents to the world, and to us.
> 
> Now think Jim Flanegin. When he first appeared on FFL, pronouncing *his*
> enlightenment, he was laughed at, too. Suffice it to say he
> reacted...uh...badly. He launched into long, abusive tirades against
> anyone who failed to believe in his enlightenmentnessitude, so much so
> that he embarrassed himself thoroughly and finally skulked off of the
> forum in disgrace. Then, not content with that, he came back two more
> times, "anonymously." He made up new screen names and pretended that
> they weren't really him, and started the same abusive routine again,
> consistently lashing out at those who failed to treat him the way
> someone enlightened "should" be treated. Busted on both of those
> attempts to conceal his identity, now he's back in a fourth incarnation
> on FFL, *still* being easily the person on this forum whose buttons are
> most easily pushed, still lashing out at anyone who challenges either
> his own supposed "enlightened" status or challenges the things he
> believes to be true. THIS is the model of "enlightened behavior" that
> Jim believes in, and presents to us.
> 
> Finally, think Ravi. His first appearance on FFL was actually more of a
> meltdown than the fictional Amy's. When people here failed to treat him
> as the "enlightened" being he presented himself as, he became so manic
> and so abusive that almost everyone on the forum was calling for some
> kind of "intervention," to help him seek professional help and hopefully
> prevent him from doing harm to either himself or (more likely) to his
> wife. Now he's calmed down a bit, but is still in the same mould as Jim;
> every time someone pushes his buttons he seemingly *has* to react by
> insulting the per

[FairfieldLife] Re: A Tale Of Four "Enlightened" People

[William]

True student teacher relationships are equal and respectful, though these are 
rare in the realms of spiritual groups or most any other organization. Maya 
rules.

Bill

 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "whynotnow7"  wrote:
>
> Yeah William, we wouldn't want to destroy the student/teacher unequal 
> relationship, would we? We wouldn't want to let others know that 
> self-realization can be achieved by anybody, would we?
> 
> Better to keep everything hidden and secretive, unless we charge them money, 
> sex, or power to share it. THAT'S the way social progress is achieved, huh? 
> 
> What a steaming pile of uncompassionate dung, William.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "William"  wrote:
> >
> > I think that this "tale" points out the short comings of the TM teachings 
> > and path. The focus is so much on personal experience that those who have 
> > some experience or perception out of the ordinary, feel special. This 
> > specialness and achievement is a focus of the TM philosophy. What would you 
> > expect to happen? Most true spiritual teachings teach humility and 
> > compassion, if you have "experiences" you should keep them to yourself or 
> > maybe share them with your teacher. This focus on experience and 
> > achievement increases ego and narcissism. 
> > 
> > The experiences, perceptions and realizations can be true, how we relate to 
> > them and process them makes all the difference.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > The example of a possibly enlightened person being featured in a weekly
> > > TV series on national television in the US presents us with a remarkable
> > > opportunity. In "Enlightened," the character of Amy shows us a person
> > > who was obviously, certifiably crazy (she was, in fact, "certified" --
> > > legally forced to seek therapy) having a subjective experience that she
> > > associates with "enlightenment," and then afterwards expects people
> > > around her to react to how she feels "inside" rather than how she acts
> > > on the outside, in real life. She considers herself an "agent of
> > > change," and expects everyone around her TO change, just as a result of
> > > coming into contact with her.
> > > 
> > > I think this fictional situation really begs to be compared TO real
> > > life, and how three other people have "acted on the outside" in real
> > > life, both in Fairfield and here on FFL. Let's compare Amy to Robin,
> > > Jim, and Ravi.
> > > 
> > > Robin is pretty much yer classic "spiritual crazy." Back in the day, he
> > > had some subjective experiences that he interpreted as enlightenment,
> > > and felt (and acted) as if everyone around him should react to his
> > > pronouncement of his own enlightenment not only as if him saying it was
> > > true made it true, but as if now he was some kind of "special" person,
> > > one whose words had "weight," and should be listened to and paid
> > > attention to as if he were really, really, REALLY special -- one of the
> > > enlightened whose wordiness is next to Godliness.
> > > 
> > > We all know how that worked out. Most people laughed at him. Heck, even
> > > Maharishi -- who he was expecting to climb onto the "Robin is
> > > enlightened" bus and support him -- regarded him as a crazy person. So
> > > how did he react to that? He acted even crazier. We are talking, after
> > > all, about someone so crazy and so convinced that everyone should regard
> > > what he said as Truth that he rented a plane and dropped leaflets of his
> > > own tracts on MIU. Crazy. Bedbug crazy. And now, years later, having
> > > disavowed the "enlightened" thang but still as narcissistic as it gets
> > > and still as convinced of his own specialnessitude, he writes long,
> > > long, long solipcistic tracts here and *still* expects everyone to not
> > > only read them, but treat them as the Truth he is convinced they are. If
> > > anyone (such as myself, or Tom, or others) suggests that he's still more
> > > than a little bedbug crazy, he lashes out at them and tries to portray
> > > them negatively and demonize them. THIS is the model of "enlightened
> > > behavior" that Robin presents to the world, and to us.
> > > 
> > > Now think Jim Flanegin. When he first appeared on FF

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Fairfield, Give Peace a chance/Rick is Enlightened!

[William]

--- On Tue, 7/27/10, curtisdeltablues  wrote:


From: curtisdeltablues 
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: In Fairfield, Give Peace a chance/Rick is 
Enlightened!
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 6:45 PM


  



> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
>  , "Rick Archer"  wrote:
> 
> > Jerry's answer was interesting, as he
> > chose to speak of MMY's humanness and fallibility... Jerry answered that> 
> > we're> > all human, including Maharishi. That he wasn't an avatar. That he 
> > was> prone> > to "lesh avidya" as are we all, and was capable of making 
> > mistakes.

Ever the enabler, good old Jerry. 

If anyone got the idea that Maharishi should be living a life that was 
mistake-free it would be because he lectured us for hours on the perfection of 
the state of enlightenment while going to great effort to stage his life so he 
appeared that way to us. (Yeah, I know the "its right by the laws of nature but 
might be illegal or immoral on the gross level of life" dodge.) 

By referring to lesh avidya Jerry tries to minimize how imperfect the guy was. 
Maharishi likened this remains of ignorance to the greasiness left on the hand 
when throwing off a butter ball (never explaining why one would have it in your 
hand in the first place or where it might land), the ignorance remaining with 
the enlightened man still in a body. He was referring to some remaining sense 
of duality in perceptions. He wasn't talking about banging nubile devotees in 
his 50's, a complete breakdown of trust in his position. 

So once again Jerry in his aw-shucks manor, much as he did when he told the 
governors at MIU that we lost the court case because of the impure lives of the 
initiators, offloads the blame to OUR mistaken impression of the guy.

It is a false comparative. We may or may not have believed he was perfect as 
per his own teaching about attaining perfection in enlightenment, but we 
expected him to rise above the bar of exploitative butthole. That is pretty far 
from the expectation that he was some kind of Avatar don't you think?

I'm an imperfect human too but that doesn't give me a pass on treating women 
with respect and as more than just the latest hot biker chick to join the gang. 
And speaking of biker chicks and how they get passed around like property...

We haven't discussed Maharishi and Judith's plans about what should happen if 
she got preggers. Acting with more than a trace of lesh avidya Maharishi steps 
right up to take responsibility...oh...sorry...that's not it at all. He 
immediately goes to her need to get married quickly. "To whom" she asks? To 
some suitable person in the movement is his sensitive reply. 

Let's take this step by step. If he knocks her up Maharishi will act as an 
Indian Mother the marriage broker and marry her off to raise HIS kid in secret. 
How very Reverend Moon of him. I love the terms "quick" and "suitable" 
together. Too bad that was before E-Harmony with is advanced compatibility 
tests to uncover chemistry between strangers. This one sounds more like "you'll 
see who you got after you lift the veil AFTER the marriage." Oh yeah and 
surprise, you got a toofer in this deal so you'll be raising the Master's kid 
in a few months. The only thing that has more likelihood of marriage survival 
than a shotgun marriage is one where the kid isn't yours! Can you imagine the 
mixed motivations in such an arrangement? Any movement social climber would 
have jumped on this grenade in a heartbeat.

Reminds me of one of my song lyrics:

"Her belly started growing like a melon in the Spring,
I told her we can't marry cuz I can't afford no ring.
Sometimes I think I love her, she treats me so fine.
I'd be her baby's daddy but I know that kid ain't mine!"

"Hard Luck Shoes"

Oh, and one last thing. Since he seemed to be a bareback kind of guy, what do 
you think the chances are that this plan actually had been put into place 
sometime? I can't wait to see that Maury episode! The hair Judith took from his 
brush will come in handy for the DNA reveal!

> 
> Jerry raised this theme of fallibility when he spoke 
> at the ayurveda facility in Lancaster, Massachusetts, 
> last year. He said that when the TM organization's 
> leaders were mistaken, as they sometimes were, 
> it was helpful when someone would say something.
> 
> He said that last night too. Sometimes MMY appreciated being told he was
> wrong. Other times it was a big no-no. I guess it depended on who was
> telling him. Vernon could always get away with it.
> 
> Ironically, later in his talk, I didn't say anything when 
> he dismissed the teachings of Eckart Tolle, even though I 
> considered that evalutation to be a mistake on Jerry's part.
> 
> Funny he would say that, because Jerry is a big Nisargadatta fan. Not
> totally dissimilar.
>









  

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Breaking news

[William]

--- On Thu, 8/5/10, Rick Archer  wrote:

From: Rick Archer 
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Breaking news
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 6:35 PM







 



  



  
  
  From: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FairfieldLi 
f...@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Peter
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 4:53 PM
To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Breaking news    Who's the Raja of 
North America? John, Kingsley? Because this is the kind of stuff we need to see 
more of. Screw Bevan and his evil minions!I’m the Raja of North America, but I 
work behind the scene.I am the god of HELL FIRE. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOErZuzZpS8


 


 





 



  






  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Boca Raton, Florida

[William]

contact this email to find out where TM -Sidhi folks do their program.
they have group program/ pot luck and MMY video every couple of weeks in 
someone's home

I go when I'm in Boca




bocara...@tm.org

--- On Wed, 2/22/12, Buck  wrote:

From: Buck 
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Boca Raton, Florida
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 4:52 AM
















 



  



  
  
  Any meditators get together?






 









  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Remote TM checking - would Skype be effective?

[William]

I've been checking initiates' TM via SKYPE for about a year now
As long as there's video on both sides it's perfect and works great.

Will



--- On Thu, 4/26/12, mainstream20016  wrote:

From: mainstream20016 
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Remote TM checking - would Skype be effective?
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 26, 2012, 8:51 PM
















 



  



  
  
  Might Skype be an effective bridge for a TM checking session when a 
meditator and a TM checker are separated by distance? 






 









  

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Brain: More Complex Than We Think.....

[William]

How can two people discuss "all the laws of nature" , its a One thing.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Nr 1 and 2 looks so real they could have been painted or photoshoped,
> but it's probably not. Didn't count them but in nr 3 there are probably
> several hundred.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda  wrote:
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" fintlewoodlewix@
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"
> >  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008
> >  wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> 
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros
> > Anartaxius"  wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regarding the phrase 'all the laws of nature'; while
> in
> > science we have various equations and hypotheses that we think
> > correspond to the way nature functions, I have never heard within the
> > movement any meaningful discussion of what the specific laws of nature
> > are, in the spiritual sense, that make up 'all the laws of nature'.
> What
> > are those laws?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think that MMY was generally talking about devas when
> he
> > said "laws of nature."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Of course, that raises the question: "what is a deva?"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They are ofcourse everywhere and especially easy to see in
> > the air around dramatic events. Take a closer look at the pictures
> from
> > the bombing of the Twin Towers for example. Here lower representatives
> > are gleefully present by the hundreds.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Go on then, post a link to a photograph showing these
> "devas"
> > gleefully enjoying the hideous death of thousands of people.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Why, are you to lazy to look up one of the thousands of images
> > of the event yourself ?
> > > >
> > > > Um, it's more a question of having seen one or two photos of the
> > > > event and not noticing any supernatural entities.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe you know of a particular image where they stand out so
> > > > we can scrutinise them?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > And BTW, you seem to be so dense that even if you shook hands
> with
> > one of them you wouldn't believe their exsistence :-)
> > > >
> > > > A photo will do for now, we'll save the introductions for later.
> > >
> > >
> > > Go ahead and look up any picture.
> > [http://stargods.org/DS_Movie.jpg]
> >
> >
> [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0sdxhoTkvek/TQSfmfSePvI/ABo/8HFDxVCiI\
> \
> > -A/s320/image-upload-14-733032.jpg]
> > [http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/4927/911truth0uj.jpg]
> > [http://911review.org/Wiki/im/WTC_Demolition.jpg]
> > and "as above so below" from Keyhole Nebula-ooh-1008 -nablusoss- at an
> > estimated distance between 6,500 and 10,000 light years from Earth
> > [http://www.galaxyphoto.com/high_res/hst_carina.JPG]
> > showing a middle finger and a face screaming?
> > > The post was intended for meditators who's awareness is open to the
> > infinite field, not quitters and tire-kickers.
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Gita - Chapter 7 MMY commentary

[William]

Does anyone know if the MMY commentary of chapter 7 of the Gita is available 
online where I can download it

Thanks

[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim Keersemaker

[William]

Does any one have a photo of Jim to post.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> -- Original Message -- 
> Received: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:59:19 PM CDT 
> From: "Purusha Communications"  
> To: "Purusha Communications"  
> Subject: Jim Keersemaker 
> 
> 
> Our dear Purusha brother Jim Keersemaker passed away yesterday from a fall
> he took while hiking at the Gajoli Ashram. We have no details to offer. His
> family in St. Louis was informed this morning, and they wish that his
> remains be cremated and the ashes spread in India. They sent the following
> message to Purusha: 
> "We deeply appreciate the life Jim had, and the unity of his group. And the
> light that he gave to all. And we know he was very happy. That he was in the
> place he loved the most, doing what he wanted to do." 
> Once we receive an address in St. Louis, flowers will be sent on behalf of
> Purusha to Jim's family. 
> Individual condolences can be sent to Jim's mother and brothers via Jim's
> brother Mark at: mkee...@... 
>   
> Jai Guru Dev 
> Purusha Administration
>

[FairfieldLife] Bevan?

[William]

The RajRajeshwari in question could very well be Jeffrey Abramson's wife, Rona.


  

[FairfieldLife] Queen search decree from 2003 - fulfilled!!

[William]

Rick,
I found this appropriate email from 2003 that we can all share throughout 
the "king's" kingdom.
  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer"  wrote:
>
> 
> Message From The Ministry of Information of His Majesty Raja Nader Ram,
> First Sovereign Ruler of the Global Country of World Peace 
> 
>  
> 
> Dearest Governors, Citizen Sidhas, Meditators, Loyal Subjects:
> 
>  
> 
> As we enter into this, the twenty-eighth year of the Age of Enlightenment,
> we see the dawn of this new age quickly becoming the Full Sunshine of the
> Age of Enlightenment, an age of peace and enlightenment for all mankind
> under the guidance of His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, whose Global
> Administration Through Natural Law will administer our Global Country of
> World Peace for perfect harmony with all the Laws of Nature in adherence
> with the Constitution of the Universe, we hereby proclaim and celebrate the
> Second Anniversary of the establishment of our Global Country of World Peace
> and decree that this Supreme Knowledge of the Totality of Natural Law, which
> governs the infinite diversity of the universe without a mistake, shall
> awaken in every human brain "I am the Totality", even for those brains
> warped almost beyond hope by weak minded thinking.
> 
>  
> 
> Royal Decree #12
> 
> Let our messengers, both human and electronic, travel to the ends of the
> earth to proclaim that the royal astrologers have determined that His
> Majesty King Nader Raja Ram is now ready to take a queen!! Qualified
> applicants will be selected for a royal audience. Qualifications for the
> future Queen include, but are not limited to:
> 
>  
> 
> 1.  Versed in Vedic Knowledge 
> 
> 2.   Experienced in Higher Consciousness
> 
> 3.   Brahman or Kshatriya caste
> 
> 4.   Of chaste personage
> 
> 5.   Pleasant submissive demeanor
> 
> 6.   Female gender
> 
> 7.   Highly placed family with over $100 million net worth
> 
> 8.   Ample breasts
> 
>  
> 
> Please send an 8 x 10 glossy photograph, original birth certificate,
> handwriting sample, and non-refundable application fee of $50,000 to:
> 
>  
> 
> Queen Search 
> 
> Maharishi Country of World Peace 
> 
> P.O. Box 108 
> 
> Maharishi Vedic City, IA 52556
> 
>  
> 
> Make check payable to First American Exchange Bank 
> 
>  
> 
> P.S. Do not send Raams
> 
>  
> 
> On behalf of his Majesty King Nader Raja Ram we wish you a fulfilling 2003
> "The Year of our Global Queen"
> 
>  
> 
> Ministry of Information, Global Country of World Peace 
> 
>  

[FairfieldLife] Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Hello to everyone on Fairfield life. My name is Dr. William Parkinson and I 
have been lurking here for over a month. I have only recently started 
meditating ( 5months) and I am trying to learn as much about TM as I can; both 
the  good and the bad. Recently, MZ\RobinC and Ravi Yogi have made some brief, 
but tantalizing allusions, to sleep (actually the lack thereof) and various 
states of consciousness. Years ago I read the paper in the journal Sleep 
documenting that people in established CC still maintain alpha wave paterns 
even during delta sleep. I was wondering if anyone could shed further light on 
this phenomenon. I understand that this is not the same as insomnia, but I'm 
wondering exactly what happens and whether or not it interferes with sleep. I 
am also wondering whether or not so-called cosmic consciousness would recede 
back into the background if someone were to discontinue TM. I ask this because 
in the eventuality that I, or someone else, may
 be disconcerted by having this state of consciousness during sleep it would be 
quite helpful to know that the discontinuation of TM would reverse this 
phenomenon. I would be deeply appreciative of any information that anyone might 
be willing to give me. Thank you in advance!
Cheers
Bill

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly! I deeply appreciate the  
warm welcome.  Honestly, however, you have truly baffled me, because your own 
experience goes far beyond so-called cosmic consciousness. Up until now I 
thought the only two people that had reached what TM jargon calls UC was Robin 
C. and Ravi. And now it seems you reached at too! An interesting question as a 
follow-up might be this: if a person simply follows the 20 minutes-twice a day 
formulation, will they ever go beyond simple cosmic consciousness?  I wonder if 
those of you who have reached GC and UC did so because of advanced meditation 
techniques, many hours of so-called 'rounding;' not to mention many more hours 
of meditation throughout the week. I think of Clint Eastwood who has been doing 
TM for four years. Seemingly he has done it in the simple 20 minute-twice a day 
fashion. Did you and Ravi (are you there?)  engage in this more dedicated 
practice of TM? I must
 also say that your post has caused me some degree of disquiet. Meditation, at 
least for the purposes of my goal, is something that is done because it is 
helpful; not because it develops long-term brain changes of questionable 
utility 
Cheers
Bill

From: RoryGoff 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:10 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Hello to everyone on Fairfield life. My name is Dr. William Parkinson and I 
> have been lurking here for over a month. I have only recently started 
> meditating ( 5months) and I am trying to learn as much about TM as I can; 
> both the  good and the bad. Recently, MZ\RobinC and Ravi Yogi have made some 
> brief, but tantalizing allusions, to sleep (actually the lack thereof) and 
> various states of consciousness. Years ago I read the paper in the journal 
> Sleep documenting that people in established CC still maintain alpha wave 
> paterns even during delta sleep. I was wondering if anyone could shed further 
> light on this phenomenon. I understand that this is not the same as insomnia, 
> but I'm wondering exactly what happens and whether or not it interferes with 
> sleep. I am also wondering whether or not so-called cosmic consciousness 
> would recede back into the background if someone were to discontinue TM. I 
> ask this because in the eventuality that I, or someone else,
 may
> be disconcerted by having this state of consciousness during sleep it would 
> be quite helpful to know that the discontinuation of TM would reverse this 
> phenomenon. I would be deeply appreciative of any information that anyone 
> might be willing to give me. Thank you in advance!
> Cheers
> Bill

* * Dear Bill, welcome to Fairfield Life! 

Great questions; I'll take a shot at them. In my recollection, anyhow, 
witnessing sleep before Awakening was somewhat transitory. Since then however, 
it has generally felt as if a part of me is always asleep (if I had to locate 
this part, it would be in the back of my brain) and a part of me is always 
awake (this would be more in the brow area), so there really appears to be only 
one state of consciousness, or more accurately, one consciousness always and 
ever Here and Now which predominates through all its various states, so that 
the brain as a whole sings, regardless of where "I" happen to be localized in 
the brain's choir. Conscious mantra-meditation ceased immediately upon 
Awakening, as it was self-evident that "I" was not, and That Alone IS, and 
there was no longer anywhere to go, and that was 29 years ago. 

I have no regrets and no desire to change, but then this is certainly not 
Cosmic Consciousness as classically described, or not C.C. alone; it is 
indescribable, more like everything and nothing, more like utter ignorance with 
utter contentment :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "PTSD and Complementary Alternative Medicine - Research Opportunities "

[William Parkinson]

From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:56 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: "PTSD and Complementary Alternative Medicine - 
Research Opportunities "


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba  wrote:
>
> http://www.research.va.gov/news/research_highlights/ptsd-cam-051711.cfm
>

I'm sure that Norman Rosenthal and the DLF are aware of this, but you might 
pass it on to them just in case.

L.

Re: [FairfieldLife] "The Soul is extracted and judged by weight"

[William Parkinson]

Thx Vaj. Yes, I am familiar with James Austin. I have all three of his major 
works going back to Zen and the Brain. And I know also about Swami Rama. I have 
been meditating on and off for 40 years now and have a large research 
collection. Perhaps at this juncture it would be useful to state my own 
philosophical presumptions. Although I have degrees in the sciences, my PhD is 
in religion, and yet I am a convinced scientific materialist. My own personal 
view is that the phenomenological approach to religion (i.e., where we allow 
what we experience to determine what we believe) is arguably the worst approach 
to take in discerning what is true and what is false (perhaps I will write 
short post using Mormons as examples of this).  Therefore, for me personally, 
I'm not interested in Enlightenment, because I don't believe it actually 
reflects reality (or perhaps it would be best to say, there is no external 
evidence which would corroborate what we feel in
 Enlightenment). Personally, I do not believe in what MMY called Being (which 
is a euphemism for Brahman, as is the so-called unified field). I have a wholly 
secular view that I think explains why this meditation works, without recourse 
to mystical or supernatural thinking. I practice meditation solely for health 
purposes, as well as to make me a better person (as it does seem to help 
develop greater patience, as well as helping me to be calm in the face of 
life's obstacles).  Maybe a better way to frame my question would be this: Can 
anyone shed light on what sleep is like in the various stages as they are 
outlined in TM? What happens in so-called CC, which I have been experiencing 
(on and off) during waking hours already (and have been for about two months 
now).  What happens when it becomes, as the new description goes, 'refined 
cosmic consciousness.'' And what happens when you cease the practice? Frankly, 
I'm not convinced that having this silent
 inner awareness is helpful during the sleeping hours; it might even prove to 
be a genuine problem!!
Cheers
Bill

From: Yifu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] "The Soul is extracted and judged by weight"


  
http://skeletonart.com/Detailed/714.html

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Thank you so much for sharing with me what happened to you Ravi. I did not know 
that you are using something other than TM. The only reason why I practice TM 
is because having tried other meditations, TM, for better or worse, seems to 
allow me to transcend in the quickest manner I have ever experienced. It 
happened in the first day or two, and that was something I can't say for any 
other form of meditation I tried, including classical concentration (which I 
started when I was perhaps 12 years old following the guidelines in a book by 
Richard Hittleman on Yoga), or vipanassana, or meditating on my breath while 
using a simple form of pranayama. For me TM is simply an expedient tool-- I 
have no desire to reach GC or UG and right now I'm just trying to figure out if 
I should even allowed to go so far as CC 24/7.  Frankly this entire notion of 
having so-called Cosmic Consciousness, this awareness of a silent inner level, 
during sleep is something that
 concerns me. I wonder if it will make sleep far more difficult. And I also 
worry about what I just read concerning what seems to be long-lasting, if not 
permanent changes to either neurophysiology or even neuroanatomy. Btw, what 
form of meditation were you practicing? And also, I love the comment by your 
Guru. That was a very perceptive comment!!  
Cheers
Bill


From: Ravi Yogi 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:55 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  
Dear Bill,

Not being familiar with TM, I can just share my experiences.

In my experience not being aware during deep sleep state doesn't seem to hinder 
bliss and perfect awareness during the wakeful state. Most of the times I sleep 
like a log, if I'm too high I might feel like I'm aware of my sleep state but 
this happens rarely.

However during a period of 3 months in 09 & 10, during this period that I refer 
to as the descension of divine I hardly slept and had full awareness even while 
asleep. But I believe this to be a side effect of the body trying to cope with 
energy than any natural state. My body treated this energy as an invasion and 
felt the need to be awake 24 hours a day to deal with this.

So based on my experience it was just an interim state, after having integrated 
the energy and rising up higher in consciousness, so to speak I just sleep.

TM is a path like many others, like my Guru would say once you reach the shore 
you leave the boat behind, you wouldn't carry it on your head.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Hello to everyone on Fairfield life. My name is Dr. William Parkinson and I 
> have been lurking here for over a month. I have only recently started 
> meditating ( 5months) and I am trying to learn as much about TM as I can; 
> both the  good and the bad. Recently, MZ\RobinC and Ravi Yogi have made some 
> brief, but tantalizing allusions, to sleep (actually the lack thereof) and 
> various states of consciousness. Years ago I read the paper in the journal 
> Sleep documenting that people in established CC still maintain alpha wave 
> paterns even during delta sleep. I was wondering if anyone could shed further 
> light on this phenomenon. I understand that this is not the same as insomnia, 
> but I'm wondering exactly what happens and whether or not it interferes with 
> sleep. I am also wondering whether or not so-called cosmic consciousness 
> would recede back into the background if someone were to discontinue TM. I 
> ask this because in the eventuality that I, or someone else,
 may
> be disconcerted by having this state of consciousness during sleep it would 
> be quite helpful to know that the discontinuation of TM would reverse this 
> phenomenon. I would be deeply appreciative of any information that anyone 
> might be willing to give me. Thank you in advance!
> Cheers
> Bill
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Thank you so much for telling me about this. Is this what MMY claimed about his 
own sense of mission? I have read the 'Beacon Light of the Himalayas' (from 
Paul Mason's site) and I thought that his sole purpose was simply because he 
had a meditation suitable for so-called 'householders.' So his real purpose was 
to raise the entire world consciousness, which in turn would allow others to 
become fully enlightened? Did I understand you correctly? If that is true that 
is a remarkable insight into his mission (or at least what he may have claimed 
for his mission). This is what I love about FFL. I get to learn so many 
interesting details and tidbits from all of you who have been in the movement 
years ago, and know far more than I do. Thank you for telling me about this!!!
Cheers
Bill


From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:11 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  
Yo, William, don't take them too seriously. According to MMY, if you can't 
perform any and all of the sidhis (e.g. Yogic Flying) then you're not truly in 
Unity Consciousness.

Now, for those who like to play semantic games with the above, I'll take it 
back a step: if, immediately prior to Full Liberation, you don't find yourself 
able to perform all the Sidhis to perfection during sutra practice during your 
participation in the TM/TM-SIdhis program, then you are probably not fully 
enlightened, no matter what your perceptions suggest.

MMY himself once hinted that that was one of the reasons why he realized the 
world wasn't quite how it should be when he was off on his own, meditating 
after his guru dev died: he wasn't doing/experiencing some of the stuff that 
was predicted for someone in his apparent state of consciousness and finally 
concluded that the current state of the world's consciousness wouldn't support 
full enlightenment, and eventually set out to remedy the situation.

L.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly! I deeply appreciate the 
>  warm welcome.  Honestly, however, you have truly baffled me, because your 
> own experience goes far beyond so-called cosmic consciousness. Up until now I 
> thought the only two people that had reached what TM jargon calls UC was 
> Robin C. and Ravi. And now it seems you reached at too! An interesting 
> question as a follow-up might be this: if a person simply follows the 20 
> minutes-twice a day formulation, will they ever go beyond simple cosmic 
> consciousness?  I wonder if those of you who have reached GC and UC did so 
> because of advanced meditation techniques, many hours of so-called 
> 'rounding;' not to mention many more hours of meditation throughout the week. 
> I think of Clint Eastwood who has been doing TM for four years. Seemingly he 
> has done it in the simple 20 minute-twice a day fashion. Did you and Ravi 
> (are you there?)  engage in this more dedicated practice of TM?
 I must
> also say that your post has caused me some degree of disquiet. Meditation, at 
> least for the purposes of my goal, is something that is done because it is 
> helpful; not because it develops long-term brain changes of questionable 
> utility 
> Cheers
> Bill
> 
> From: RoryGoff 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:10 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
> >
> > Hello to everyone on Fairfield life. My name is Dr. William Parkinson and I 
> > have been lurking here for over a month. I have only recently started 
> > meditating ( 5months) and I am trying to learn as much about TM as I can; 
> > both the  good and the bad. Recently, MZ\RobinC and Ravi Yogi have made 
> > some brief, but tantalizing allusions, to sleep (actually the lack thereof) 
> > and various states of consciousness. Years ago I read the paper in the 
> > journal Sleep documenting that people in established CC still maintain 
> > alpha wave paterns even during delta sleep. I was wondering if anyone 
> > could shed further light on this phenomenon. I understand that this is not 
> > the same as insomnia, but I'm wondering exactly what happens and whether or 
> > not it interferes with sleep. I am also wondering whether or not so-called 
> > cosmic consciousness would recede back into the background if someone were 
> > to discontinue TM. I ask this because in the eventuality that I, or someone
 else,
> may
> > be disconcerted by having this state of consciousness during sleep it would 
> > be quite helpful to know that the d

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

I must admit to being very pleased Rory-- you're the first person on this forum 
that I have encountered who seems to be happy that they've reached a certain 
level of 'higher consciousness.' To hear RC tell of his own experience, it did 
not seem like a very pleasant or helpful state of mind at all!  I read about 
the helicopter incident in the book 'The Maharishi Effect" and it seemed to me 
that this behavior might have been indicative of a highly unstable state of 
mind (no offense RC if you are still reading these posts; please do not take it 
as any indication of a judgment on you as you are now). You're the first one so 
far who seems to be contented with having reached a higher state of 
consciousness. Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to inform me 
of your own experiences. It has proven to be invaluable to me and very 
rewarding-- even if I'm not sure I fully grasp in its entirety what happened to 
you during these periods of intense
 illumination (perhaps that is a better wording than Enlightenment).
Cheers
Bill
 


From: RoryGoff 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:18 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly! I deeply appreciate the 
>  warm welcome.  Honestly, however, you have truly baffled me, because your 
> own experience goes far beyond so-called cosmic consciousness. Up until now I 
> thought the only two people that had reached what TM jargon calls UC was 
> Robin C. and Ravi. And now it seems you reached at too!

* * I wouldn't characterize this IS-ness as classic UC either, as when UC 
dawned for me, anyhow, there was still an essentially-separate "I" who was 
enjoying "Unity" or a tunnel-self with various objects of perception, but who 
still essentially regarded itself as separate and subject to spacetime and 
growth and experience coming from somewhere "outside" itself. Now, however, we 
contain a great many "I"s, all of whom are in different states of 
consciousness, depending on the quality of our relationship with them. 

> An interesting question as a follow-up might be this: if a person simply 
> follows the 20 minutes-twice a day formulation, will they ever go beyond 
> simple cosmic consciousness? 

* * Every one is different, but I don't see why not :-)

> I wonder if those of you who have reached GC and UC did so because of 
>advanced meditation techniques, many hours of so-called 'rounding;' not to 
>mention many more hours of meditation throughout the week. 

* * That certainly was the case for me, but the great joke is, the path is 
actually pathless, from Here to Here, as MMY puts it, which I would gloss as 
being from a relative non-appreciation of Here and Now to a total whole-hearted 
appreciation of Here and Now. So whatever it takes to erase the intellect's 
superimpositions of not-Here and not-Now we are placing upon THAT-Us Here and 
Now, well, that is what happens :-)

>I think of Clint Eastwood who has been doing TM for four years. Seemingly he 
>has done it in the simple 20 minute-twice a day fashion. Did you and Ravi (are 
>you there?)  engage in this more dedicated practice of TM? 

* * Yes.

>I must
> also say that your post has caused me some degree of disquiet. Meditation, at 
> least for the purposes of my goal, is something that is done because it is 
> helpful; not because it develops long-term brain changes of questionable 
> utility 
> Cheers
> Bill

* * For me, anyhow, this is IT, Home, my Beloved, what I had been searching for 
forever, and so I am supremely satisfied with its "questionable utility" :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Thx so much XA. What you describe is the one thing I fear the most. I have had 
insomnia for my entire adult life and when I went to a sleep lab way back in 
1982 (at U.C.Irvine in California) I was told I had "alpha intrusion.' 
Obviously I was having trouble getting out of the restful state of alpha and 
into the drowsy theta state and then into the sleeping delta. So, when the 
article in Sleep showed that these TM meditators where producing alpha waves, 
while concomitantly showing delta waves, that turned me off. I quit doing TM 
long ago because of it. That was 11 years ago. But around 5 months ago now I 
started TM again and it was not too long, perhaps 10 weeks later, I could tell 
that CC was starting to develop. That silent inner layer, which was there all 
the time when I was not too mentally active (so, watching TV I could 'feel' 
it), was growing and I worry about the effects on sleep.  Your story is, for 
me, a real cautionary tale to be sure. I am
 deeply grateful to you for sharing it with me.   I guess the only good thing 
to take way for all of this was that the "CC" experience did go away in time. 
If I may ask one question XA: How much were you meditating? Were you going far 
beyond the typical twice-per-day,  20 minute program? Were you using advanced 
techniques? Were you going to all those residence courses to undergo 
'rounding'? Clint Eastwood has been meditating for 40 years and I assume he is 
doing TM 'lite,' as I am.  He seems none the worse for wear, so to speak. 
Cheers
Bill 


From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 1:45 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  

With regards to William Parkinson, Ravi Yogi, and Lawson

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@
wrote:
> > Thank you so much for sharing with me what happened to you Ravi. I
did not know that you are using something other than TM. The only reason
why I practice TM is because having tried other meditations, TM, for
better or worse, seems to allow me to transcend in the quickest manner I
have ever experienced. It happened in the first day or two, and that was
something I can't say for any other form of meditation I tried,
including classical concentration (which I started when I was perhaps 12
years old following the guidelines in a book by Richard Hittleman on
Yoga), or vipanassana, or meditating on my breath while using a simple
form of pranayama. For me TM is simply an expedient tool-- I have no
desire to reach GC or UG and right now I'm just trying to figure out if
I should even allowed to go so far as CC 24/7. Frankly this entire
notion of having so-called Cosmic Consciousness, this awareness of a
silent inner level, during sleep is something that
> > concerns me. I wonder if it will make sleep far more difficult. And
I also worry about what I just read concerning what seems to be
long-lasting, if not permanent changes to either neurophysiology or even
neuroanatomy. Btw, what form of meditation were you practicing? And
also, I love the comment by your Guru. That was a very perceptive
comment!!
> > Cheers
> > Bill

> > From: Ravi Yogi raviyogi@
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:55 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

> > Dear Bill,
> >
> > Not being familiar with TM, I can just share my experiences.
> >
> > In my experience not being aware during deep sleep state doesn't
seem to hinder bliss and perfect awareness during the wakeful state.
Most of the times I sleep like a log, if I'm too high I might feel like
I'm aware of my sleep state but this happens rarely.
> >
> > However during a period of 3 months in 09 & 10, during this period
that I refer to as the descension of divine I hardly slept and had full
awareness even while asleep. But I believe this to be a side effect of
the body trying to cope with energy than any natural state. My body
treated this energy as an invasion and felt the need to be awake 24
hours a day to deal with this.
> >
> > So based on my experience it was just an interim state, after having
integrated the energy and rising up higher in consciousness, so to speak
I just sleep.
> >
> > TM is a path like many others, like my Guru would say once you reach
the shore you leave the boat behind, you wouldn't carry it on your head.
> >
>
> For me the further shore occasionally seems closer than at other
times, but invariably a cleansing flood washes the boat back down
stream, and the further shore seems at least as far away as ever, if
not more.
>
> IOW, I haven't found an opportunity to carry the boat around on my

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Vaj, as I understand it, the TM people don't make hay from the mere presence of 
alpha waves, but rather from alpha coherence, which is wide spread over the 
various lobes. Is that not correct? Am I missing something here? Someone 
correct me if I am wrong. 

Cheers
Bill

From: Vaj 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  


On Jul 13, 2011, at 3:56 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

On 07/13/2011 12:17 PM, sparaig wrote:
>>
>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
>> [...]
>>> You probably know that most brain wave research would say that deep
>>> sleep would be the delta state which is possible to produce through
>>> meditation too. Back in the 1970s I was part of a university study on
>>> meditation and had an EEG test. The researcher was looking for alpha
>>> waves but I produced theta. We now know that theta states (as well as
>>> delta) are signs of deeper states of mediation. I don't know why the
>>> movement keeps pushing alpha states.
>>>
>> The most consistent EEG changes during TM they have found are in the Alpha 
>> band in certain parts of the brain, especially during episodes of pure 
>> consciousness. There's no justifiable reason to "push" anything else.
>>
>>
>> L.
>
>Sure, because TM is only "yoga lite." :-D
>
>Just simple breathing exercises can produce alpha states.


The much-touted witnessing of advanced TMers is seen in normal humans all the 
time, but esp. in the elderly and people in pain. Big whoop.

As the Cambridge Handbook of Consciousness put it "Other relaxation techniques 
have led to the same EEG profile, and studies thatemployed counter-balanced 
control relaxation conditions consistently found a lack of alpha power 
increases or even decreases when comparing  
relaxation or hypnosis to TM meditation."

I hope those folks who are so wowed about TM remember to take an Ativan before 
they ever venture into Disneyworld or a Benihana steak house.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Thank you so much Ravi for allowing me a peek into your experiences. When I say 
'questionable utility' what I mean is this. In the Eastern tradition, as I 
understand it, the goal of Enlightenment is to  free one from karmic bondage; 
that is to say, to end the endless cycle of birth, death, and rebirth (the 
'transmigration of the soul'). Enlightenment is always viewed as something that 
dispels ignorance. And what is this ignorance? Far more often than not it is 
the idea that dualism is illusory. But what if there is no such thing as 
reincarnation (as I believe)? What good does the Enlightenment do then? And 
what if the phenomenological approach to religion is the worst possible way to 
proceed to truth? I should really take the time to write of a compelling 
example of this error in religion using the example if the Mormon faith. In the 
light of evidence from mitochondrial DNA we can now say that Joseph Smith, and 
everything he taught, was completely false
 (there were other lines of compelling evidence that converge on the same 
conclusion). And yet Mormons, because of a phenomenon called the 'burning 
bosom,' nevertheless, believe wholeheartedly that it is still true. When I get 
the time I think I will write a post on this. Hopefully it will be edifying to 
everyone on the forum.  In any event, I'm not sure I see how it is useful to 
become enlightened, unless it makes a person a better human being; viz. 
becoming a more loving person. Of course, this is only my personal belief.  I 
would be fascinated to hear anything you can tell me about what value this 
period in your life has had for you. I am always endlessly fascinated by the 
religious convictions and scruples of people no matter what the religious 
tradition. You are one of the few people I have ever encountered who can say 
that they entered into a state of consciousness that was at least close to, if 
not entirely synonymous with, the classical
 definition of enlightenment.  It would be a welcome exercise to me personally 
if you could tell me just a little bit about why you feel it was salutary for 
you. In any event, I thank you deeply Ravi for sharing your experiences with 
me. I hope to hear more from you soon!
Cheers
Bill


From: Ravi Yogi 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 4:00 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  
"Did you and Ravi (are you there?) engage in this more dedicated practice of 
TM?"
No like I said I didn't engage in any advanced practices. IME the result does 
not seem to be proportional to the effort and like ancient scriptures point out 
the other factors seems to be grace, the existing attachments and one's innate 
tendencies. 

"Meditation, at least for the purposes of my goal, is something that is done 
because it is helpful; not because it develops long-term brain changes of 
questionable utility "


I can vouch for long term brain changes, I would definitely disagree with the 
questionable utility part. 



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly! I deeply appreciate the 
>  warm welcome.  Honestly, however, you have truly baffled me, because your 
> own experience goes far beyond so-called cosmic consciousness. Up until now I 
> thought the only two people that had reached what TM jargon calls UC was 
> Robin C. and Ravi. And now it seems you reached at too! An interesting 
> question as a follow-up might be this: if a person simply follows the 20 
> minutes-twice a day formulation, will they ever go beyond simple cosmic 
> consciousness?  I wonder if those of you who have reached GC and UC did so 
> because of advanced meditation techniques, many hours of so-called 
> 'rounding;' not to mention many more hours of meditation throughout the week. 
> I think of Clint Eastwood who has been doing TM for four years. Seemingly he 
> has done it in the simple 20 minute-twice a day fashion. Did you and Ravi 
> (are you there?)  engage in this more dedicated practice of TM?
 I must
> also say that your post has caused me some degree of disquiet. Meditation, at 
> least for the purposes of my goal, is something that is done because it is 
> helpful; not because it develops long-term brain changes of questionable 
> utility 
> Cheers
> Bill
> 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Hello Bob and thank you for your kind words. I used to live in the Great White 
North. When I first started out to enter into a doctoral program I had two 
options open up to me. The first was at the University of Pennsylvania to study 
under Bob Kraft or to go to the University of Toronto to study under John 
Kloppenborg. Thankfully I was offered admission into both programs.  I visited 
with both men and decided upon the University of Toronto. Bob Kraft was 
wonderful to me and he is a brilliant scholar, but the research that he wanted 
me to work on simply put me off. After meeting with John, and thinking that I 
would accept admission to the University of Toronto, I talked to another 
brilliant scholar in Canada by the name of Larry Hurtado. At that time he was 
at one of the worst universities in Canada-- the University of Manitoba. 
However, being American, I had no idea how bad it was. Anyway I drove from 
Toronto to Winnipeg and he spent 6 1/2 hours with
 me in his backyard, along with his wife, having a barbecue for me. He went so 
far out of his way and he was such a brilliant scholar that he convinced me to 
go to the University of Manitoba. Fortunately luck was going to smile upon the 
both of us. One day, about six months after being with Larry, he came to me and 
asked me to teach his classes for a few days. He never told me why or where he 
was going. Long story short, he had been interviewed at the University of 
Edinburgh in the UK (traditionally the third-best university there after 
Cambridge and Oxford so it was quite a feather in his cap) to be the chairman 
of the department. He did get the job there. So under the circumstanes both U. 
Penn and U.Toronto told me they would take me in if I did not want to go with 
him there. I did want to go, but back then the UK forced pet owners to 
quarantine their animals for six months upon entry into the UK. So, if I was to 
finish up my program with Larry
 over there I had to quickly find someone to accept my dogs. I got lucky again 
and found someone who would watch them.  So I decided I would jump ship with 
him rather than to move over to the U. of Toronto or to U.Penn. Now I have to 
ask you: What made you think I had been in Canada or Africa? Now you had me 
curious!

 
Cheers
Bill

From: Bob Price 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

  
Dr. Parkinson,

Welcome to FFL. I've been enjoying your exchanges with our fellow posters 
immensely. Lately, I've been trying to communicate in moving images but I'm 
afraid I'll never match the lyrical magic or sattva of our talented Yifu. 

While reading one of your posts I found myself reaching for my Webster's and 
remembered the last time I reached out like that. I was wondering if you've 
recently been to Canada or Africa? 

From: William Parkinson 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 4:22:34 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  
Thank you so much Ravi for allowing me a peek into your experiences. When I say 
'questionable utility' what I mean is this. In the Eastern tradition, as I 
understand it, the goal of Enlightenment is to  free one from karmic bondage; 
that is to say, to end the endless cycle of birth, death, and rebirth (the 
'transmigration of the soul'). Enlightenment is always viewed as something that 
dispels ignorance. And what is this ignorance? Far more often than not it is 
the idea that dualism is illusory. But what if there is no such thing as 
reincarnation (as I believe)? What good does the Enlightenment do then? And 
what if the phenomenological approach to religion is the worst possible way to 
proceed to truth? I should really take the time to write of a compelling 
example of this error in religion using the example if the Mormon faith. In the 
light of evidence from mitochondrial DNA we can now say that Joseph Smith, and 
everything he taught, was completely false
 (there were other lines of compelling evidence that converge on the same 
conclusion). And yet Mormons, because of a phenomenon called the 'burning 
bosom,' nevertheless, believe wholeheartedly that it is still true. When I get 
the time I think I will write a post on this. Hopefully it will be edifying to 
everyone on the forum.  In any event, I'm not sure I see how it is useful to 
become enlightened, unless it makes a person a better human being; viz. 
becoming a more loving person. Of course, this is only my personal belief.  I 
would be fascinated to hear anything you can tell me about what value this 
period in your life has had for you. I am always endlessly fascinated by the 
religious convictions and scruples of people no matter what the religious 
tradition. You are one of the few people I have ever encountered who can say 
that th

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Thank you so much for the information Bhairitu . I tried to trace back my own 
mantra within the Advaita-shakti tradition and found that it was recorded in 
Shankara's 'Saundaryalahari.' Perhaps I am just slow witted, but I don't 
believe in Ishta-devatas or any of these deities. For me it is sort of like if 
an Italian person came to me and gave me an ancient religious tradition that 
was based on a belief in Hermes or Zeus or Neptune. These are just 
personifications of natural forces and experiences. Still, TM does work! I have 
my own secular explanation as to what I think makes it work, but of course 
maybe Kali, Lakshmi and the other goddesses of the Divine mother tradition are 
real! Nevertheless, I find it fascinating to trace the roots of this religious 
tradition. I hope you will add any further information you can on the 
tradition. There is so much I really do not understand about it or even about 
the growth of the tradition after Shankara. Perhaps
 others can shed further light upon the tradition that underlies TM. At this 
point, having heard too many testimonials concerning disrupted sleep patterns 
(even when they are seen as being helpful) I think I'm going to cut back my TM 
to 10 minutes each session and add 10 minutes of pranayama prior to doing the 
TM. Maybe in that fashion I can still get some of the benefits from the 
practice, but not develop full-blown CC, which would surface during my sleeping 
hours. Anyway thank you so much!!
Cheers
Bill


From: Bhairitu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  
On 07/13/2011 11:12 AM, William Parkinson wrote:
> Thank you so much for sharing with me what happened to you Ravi. I did not 
> know that you are using something other than TM. The only reason why I 
> practice TM is because having tried other meditations, TM, for better or 
> worse, seems to allow me to transcend in the quickest manner I have ever 
> experienced.

That's because it's a beej mantra which are generally used to enrich 
longer mantras. They're short and create a quick dip. Longer mantras 
create a more sustained effect. Maharishi wanted people to get the 
advanced technique as early as a year and a half after the first. It 
resembles a "guru mantra" for the tradition.

> It happened in the first day or two, and that was something I can't say for 
> any other form of meditation I tried, including classical concentration 
> (which I started when I was perhaps 12 years old following the guidelines in 
> a book by Richard Hittleman on Yoga), or vipanassana, or meditating on my 
> breath while using a simple form of pranayama. For me TM is simply an 
> expedient tool-- I have no desire to reach GC or UG and right now I'm just 
> trying to figure out if I should even allowed to go so far as CC 24/7. 
> Frankly this entire notion of having so-called Cosmic Consciousness, this 
> awareness of a silent inner level, during sleep is something that
> concerns me. I wonder if it will make sleep far more difficult.

You probably know that most brain wave research would say that deep 
sleep would be the delta state which is possible to produce through 
meditation too. Back in the 1970s I was part of a university study on 
meditation and had an EEG test. The researcher was looking for alpha 
waves but I produced theta. We now know that theta states (as well as 
delta) are signs of deeper states of mediation. I don't know why the 
movement keeps pushing alpha states.

Witnessing in sleep is not uncommon when one practices advanced 
meditations. But you'll also find plenty of yogis who will tell you 
they are "dead to the world" during sleep and happy for it.

I taught TM briefly in the late 70s. About 11 years ago I learned 
tantra from an authentic Indian tantric yogi who resides in the US. TM 
for me was a dead end because we were never taught things like mantra 
shastra or how to use different mantras. We were nothing more than 
parrots for the technique. With the tantric I learned things like 
mantra shastra.

> And I also worry about what I just read concerning what seems to be 
> long-lasting, if not permanent changes to either neurophysiology or even 
> neuroanatomy. Btw, what form of meditation were you practicing? And also, I 
> love the comment by your Guru. That was a very perceptive comment!! 
> Cheers
> Bill

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

I want to thank everyone for being so gracious with their time and helping me 
come to a greater understanding about the issue of sleep and its relationship 
to TM. Regrettably, it has engendered some posts in directions that I never 
intended. For that I'm truly sorry. Nevertheless, I have received enough very 
helpful feedback to come to what I think is a proper understanding. It seems to 
me that prolonged use of TM will, in fact, change in some way my sleep 
patterns. Some here seem to feel that is not necessarily a bad thing, but 
others have clearly suffered from it. Given that I already have insomnia I 
think I'm going to steer clear of allowing myself to go into that level of 
cosmic consciousness. Accordingly, I'm going to restrict my TM practice to just 
10 minutes, twice a day, preceded by 10 minutes of simple pranayama. Hopefully, 
I will still get some of the benefits that I feel from TM, but also not develop 
full-blown cosmic consciousness into my
 sleeping hours. Unlike Ravi, Jim, and perhaps Robin, I really find the whole 
notion of not sleeping very troubling.  In any event I want to make this my 
last post on the subject, given that it has developed into some side issues 
that I never meant to dig up. At least we can put an end to this chapter on FLL 
and other discussions can ensue. I will respond to each person who has written 
lately in this one post. I hope I have the names right with each e-mail I saw 
posted. If I have made an error please forgive me. 
 
Thx so much Barry. I took your admonishment seriously and I felt, and do still 
feel, it was heartfelt. And yes you are right. I have taken them at their word, 
even though I know this is such a subjective thing. Nevertheless, even if they 
only got close to so-called 'Enlightenment' it is very interesting to talk to 
them and see what state of mind they were in and what effect it had on their 
personal lives. I regret that Robin left when he did. It would be so 
interesting if Travis and other researchers would try to document what people 
in UC look like encephalographically, as well as on PET scans.  
 
Thx Vaj for pointing that out. Yes I was aware that Saundaryalahari is alleged 
to be from Shankara, but I found out only very recently. It was here on FLL, 
not more then maybe a month ago, that someone mentioned this work and that 
there were mantras in it. That was my first exposure to it.  So I looked up the 
work and saw my mantra there and the Ishta-devata that was associated with it. 
I had never been interested in the religious tradition which undergirds TM 
until now. I have been collecting files for roughly 15 years on the effects of 
meditation. Until this last month I had not really been interested in anything 
but the scientific aspects of meditation. So I thank that you have been willing 
to point these things out to me. I still have so much to learn when it comes to 
the background of these things. I do wish to mention one other thing. I don't 
think that what I had in the past, and still do to a certain point today, that 
is alpha intrusion, is the
 same as cosmic consciousness. The difference is one of thinking versus a deep 
inner silence that I am aware of now. Alpha intrusion is genuine insomnia (and 
it is still there, although not as bad as it used to be) where your mind turns 
over and over and it's hard to shut off your mind. As I understand it, and I 
admit I have never experienced it in sleep, it is the same phenomenon that I 
experience now in my wakeful state in quiet moments; viz., there is a second 
layer of complete silence that is very perceptible. I guess the best way to 
explain it is to use MMY's fondness for using the ocean as a way to comprehend 
meditation. Like everyone else I have the active, busy, mental aspect. That is 
the only thing I've ever been able to truly perceive outside of meditation. 
With others forms of meditation what I felt was a calming of this active, 
thinking layer.  What I mean is that in my normal awakened state that is all I 
can normally perceive; toned down
 or otherwise. But after four months of TM there is a quite discernible 
second-level that has developed. It is more than just a quieting of my active 
mind; it is a perceptible second layer that is there now that does not leave 
and it is growing. But this level is completely silent. So, following MMY's 
analogy, the only thing I use to sense was the waves on top of the ocean, but 
now I also feel the depth of the ocean; a still, silent, depth that is the 
second layer in my personality. Actually I rather like it. It is definitely a 
calming influence. Be that as it may, you're still producing alpha waves and 
alpha activity; that is to say, you're still consciously aware, continually, of 
this silent layer.  Granted that layer is not running thoughts over and over 
again in my mind; nevertheless that part of the mind is not going to shut off 
during sleep. And that is what I was really worried about. Apparentl

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Richard I love what you just wrote. This is all new to me. I am now rushing to 
Goggle!! I will say something soon. Thx!!
Cheers
Bill

From: richardjwilliamstexas 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:51 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  


William Parkinson:
> I tried to trace back my own mantra within the 
> Advaita-shakti tradition and found that it was 
> recorded in Shankara's 'Saundaryalahari.'
>
"According to the Shankaracharya of Sringeri, the 
Adi Shankara placed the Sri Chakra, symbol of 
Tripurasundari, with the TM mantras inscribed 
thereon, at each of the seats of learning - Dwarka, 
Puri, Sringeri, and at Jyotirmath. The mantras of 
TM are DIRECTLY related to Sri Vidya. 

It is also a fact that the cult of Sri Vidya was 
derived from the nath siddhas, tantric alchemists 
of medieval India, 99% of whom were Vajrayana 
Buddhists in the line of Nagarjuna!"

Read more:

Sri Vidya:
http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/srividya.htm

[FairfieldLife] How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

 problem to 
switch between the basic mantra and the different advanced mantra's during 
meditation. One of the advanced techniques also consistes of thinking the 
mantra in the Heart area (bottom of sternum) form time to time (second or 
minutes) with a soft focus on that area. You should follow your own need and 
feelings.  


 
Meaning of "Shree" and "Namah" :
 
"Shree" signifies "Shakti", "Light", "Abundance", "Energy", "Life", 
"Kundalini", "Nourishment" in the more abstract sense of the word.  In a more 
concrete sense it also means "Lakshmee" or The Godess of Wealth and Beauty.
It is a very powerful word. By adding this word as a prefix to the mantra 
results in more joy and enjoyment during meditation and the basic mantra 
becomes very powerful. "Shree" feels like Sweet Nectar.  "Shree" touches and 
caresses the Kundalini Energy in our energy-body (astral or pranic body) and 
that is why we experience is as "Sweet Nectar or Sweet Honey". "Shree" 
nourishes our body and mind.
 
"Namah" means "bowing down to", "surrender yourself to", "give space to", "let 
That Other Principle Be""
It is a very good word to conclude the prefix and the basic mantra, because it 
also delimits the Prefix and the Basic mantra. By this means we get an complete 
and very powerful advanced mantra.



From: richardjwilliamstexas 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:51 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  


William Parkinson:
> I tried to trace back my own mantra within the 
> Advaita-shakti tradition and found that it was 
> recorded in Shankara's 'Saundaryalahari.'
>
"According to the Shankaracharya of Sringeri, the 
Adi Shankara placed the Sri Chakra, symbol of 
Tripurasundari, with the TM mantras inscribed 
thereon, at each of the seats of learning - Dwarka, 
Puri, Sringeri, and at Jyotirmath. The mantras of 
TM are DIRECTLY related to Sri Vidya. 

It is also a fact that the cult of Sri Vidya was 
derived from the nath siddhas, tantric alchemists 
of medieval India, 99% of whom were Vajrayana 
Buddhists in the line of Nagarjuna!"

Read more:

Sri Vidya:
http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/srividya.htm

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Nab, I do know how to pronounce my mantra, at least as it was told to me. But 
what is here is different. Excuse my curiosity
Cheers
Bill 
PS- My training was, after all, 11 years ago!!

From: nablusoss1008 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:50 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
>  
> I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was 
> taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, 
> hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even 
> valid? Thx for any information anyone might have!
> Cheers
> Bill   

You've meditated what, 6 months and already mixed up ? That's what you get when 
you don't pay attention to what the TM-Teacher tells you. 
Good luck to you, but please have a checking as soon as possible !

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

I am so sorry L. As I mentioned at the beginning, I might get people confused. 
I think I still have what you wrote to me and I will look at those links today, 
when I get back home. Thanks again!!
Cheers
Bill

From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
[...]
> Thank you also Turq (Lawson) for your warm welcome too. There is much I still 
> have to learn about TM, but also about the members here.  Still it has been 
> heuristically useful for me to say the least!   

Um

I note that you not only confused me with someone else but you never bothered 
to respond to my links to research on stuff...

Gotta wonder.

L.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Yes I was taught and taught well (at least I thought so) by a thoughtful and 
helpful TM teacher in Vancouver B.C. I ask only as academic matter; this is 
different that what I was taught. 
Cheers
Bill

From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:08 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
>  
> I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was 
> taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, 
> hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even 
> valid? Thx for any information anyone might have!

Sigh, are you SURE you have learned TM?

Have you ever been checked?

Starting to think that WIlliam is a troll...

L.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Thank you for your concern Nab. Now does anyone have anything constructive to 
say? 
Cheers
Bill

From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:21 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
> >
> > Nab, I do know how to pronounce my mantra, at least as it was told to me. 
> > But what is here is different. Excuse my curiosity
> > Cheers
> > Bill 
> > PS- My training was, after all, 11 years ago!!
> 
> 
> Stop this nonsense. 
> Either you listen to what the teacher says, or you choose to do someting 
> else. Simple.
>

Many people believe that they MUST start thinking their mantra exactly the same 
way every time. I think MY decided that if they didn't intuit from what they 
were told that this was a bit anal, that it was counter-productive to make the 
hints any stronger than they already are.

But, I'll just say that after nearly 40 years of practicing TM, it takes quite 
a bit of effort sometimes to remember exactly how my mantra was pronounced when 
I was given it.

Oh wait, TM is effortless... Did MMY lie or is there something to be learned 
from the realization that attempting to remember a specific pronunciation from 
38 years ago is often extremely difficult?

L

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Bob, there are some colorful people involved with Eastern traditions, to be 
sure. In fact the person with that website thinks of himself as a 21rst Century 
maharishi.   It is fine with me if Nab wants to be testy. I will reply in a 
collegial fashion, which is what I am used to. I wish Nab only the best. And by 
the way, thank you for your continued kindness!! For me personally, that is the 
only metric of spiritual development that really means anything to me.
Cheers
Bill

From: Bob Price 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  
Bill,



Many thanks for your posts. Have you studied much about the early Christian 
church (probably a silly question), say the crucifixion to AD 337? We had an 
excellent series of exchanges started before Robin retired and I would enjoy a 
few more.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Nabster, he suffers from what is fondly 
referred to on FFL as PAS (post abduction syndrome).
He generously shares a lot of images of crop circles. The current thinking is 
that he may have been on the ship that made most of them.

From: nablusoss1008 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 12:50:31 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
>  
> I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was 
> taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, 
> hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even 
> valid? Thx for any information anyone might have!
> Cheers
> Bill   

You've meditated what, 6 months and already mixed up ? That's what you get when 
you don't pay attention to what the TM-Teacher tells you. 
Good luck to you, but please have a checking as soon as possible !

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

I was taught and still have my receipt. Goodness!! I ask as a curiosity. Is it 
not possible to discuss these issues rationally and in a collegial fashion?
Cheers
Bill 

From: Yifu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:34 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  
below..."vault of the mouth". Nope - as stated or implied by others; those 
people excessively concerned about authentic pronunciation apparently don't 
have a clue about TM and probably were not initiated into it.
http://skeletonart.com/Detailed/739.html

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Jul 14, 2011, at 3:28 PM, William Parkinson wrote:
> 
> > I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I 
> > was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For 
> > example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list 
> > even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have!
> 
> 
> Honestly, while this is interesting, the best way is to be instructed in the 
> Sanskrit alphabet's proper pronunciation and where those sounds occur in the 
> mouth. Then learn the mantras according to the proper Sanskrit pronunciation 
> and where they occur in the vault of the the mouth.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Hoffa plays Hardball w/G.O.P.'

[William G]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon  wrote:
>
> Well. So much for toning down the rhetoric as Obama suggested after the 
> Gabbie Gifford's assassination attempt. Maybe Hoffa needs a bulls-eye painted 
> on him or maybe he'll just disappear. Like father, like son. I wonder how 
> much he has embezzled from Teamster  Pension and Health and Well-fair fund. 
> It's a pretty commom practice. Two administrations(that I know of) of my 
> local have been busted for doing that.


And what a disgusting pig he is; these greedy Unions are ruining everything, 
the latest victim is the US Post Office, before that GM.

"Please Obama, don't print anymore money to feed these porkers."

[FairfieldLife] Hoffa, the Godfather of the 'Workers', (nyuk, nyuk).

[William G]

"Get those bastards", "We gotta a war here", "We're you 'foot soldiers Mr. 
Obama"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWqKPWO5T4o

Re: [FairfieldLife] Origin of bija mantras

[William Parkinson]

Not too muchm sadly. I am still learning everything I can about MMY and TM. The 
only other interesting thing I found out that most do not know is that 
according to Donovan, the singer who was there with the Beatles in India (as I 
know you know already), MMY divided up longer mantras to reduce it is basic 
easy bija mantras for Western people, who were not inclined to the religion of 
Hinduism. This makes sense, since every time I see TM mantras they are indeed 
part of larger whole mantras, e.g., Om klim hrim...Sawastri...etc. (as claimed 
in the book, Here Comes the Sun: The Spiritual & Musical Journey of George 
Harrison, pg. 127.)  And also, Frawley claims that the long I in shakti mantras 
designates shakti, but the short I vowel sound is supposed to designate Siva or 
static consciouness. So that makes me wonder why we all use the short I vowel 
sound in MMY versions of the bija mantras (i.e., hrim, instead of the normative 
hreem pronunciation, to cite
 but one example). Might it be because MMY thought the so-called shakti mantras 
were too powerful for Western minds? In any event, Feurstein is a very 
respected scholar and I trust his research and acumen.  

From: Bhairitu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Origin of bija mantras


  
On 09/07/2011 05:09 PM, William wrote:
> For what it is worth, the most trusted yoga scholar I know is Dr. Georg 
> Feurstein and according to him bija mantras are first found in the brahmanas, 
> where they are associated with specific deities (Georg Feurstein, "Tantra: 
> Path of Ecstasy", 16.)

What else have you studied on tantra?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Origin of bija mantras

[William Parkinson]

I wish I could say I understood enough about Tantric doctrines to fully 
appreciate what you have said, but truthfully I'm not that conversant with it 
yet. I will say one thing about Feurerstein. By his own account, he is a 
long-term practitioner of yoga and in recent years he has turned to Tantric 
Buddhist practices. I think he would describe himself as someone who was not 
just a dry scholar, but an avid and long-term practitioner. In any event, I'm 
still digging into M's thinking and theological perspective. My next read is 
_Consciousness in Advaita Vedanta_ by William Indich.  Hopefully it can cast 
some light on further thinking about consciousness in M's belief system.
Cheers
Bill

From: Bhairitu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Origin of bija mantras


  
I read Feurstein's book but I find him more a "spectator" and not a 
practitioner. FYI, I've study with a Tantric Samrat which is a level 
above Tantric Acharya and I've achieved Sidh Tantric (mastery of tantric 
siddhis). I don't know if I'll ever get much farther than that as it's 
more a young person's thing. My teacher started when he was 16.

You'll find a lot of different opinions about the beej (Indians 
pronounce it this way) mantras in the subtleties of their use. They are 
also used as sampat for longer mantras. I also think that MMY actually 
used the beej mantras because they had a quick effect and could be 
taught without shaktipat (other than that produced by performing the 
puja). The advanced technique is of course a longer mantra (and 
recommended to learn after 1 1/2 years). Other paths will just teach a 
longer mantra along with giving shaktipat. There is a controversy 
though about giving the public "agni" mantras and most feel only Shiva 
and Shanti mantras should be given for basic techniques.

The sad thing is that much of this kind of information though given out 
by teachers of other traditions wasn't given to at least the TM 
teachers. Hence funny guesses about beej mantras here. ;-)

On 09/07/2011 06:04 PM, William Parkinson wrote:
> Not too muchm sadly. I am still learning everything I can about MMY and TM. 
> The only other interesting thing I found out that most do not know is that 
> according to Donovan, the singer who was there with the Beatles in India (as 
> I know you know already), MMY divided up longer mantras to reduce it is basic 
> easy bija mantras for Western people, who were not inclined to the religion 
> of Hinduism. This makes sense, since every time I see TM mantras they are 
> indeed part of larger whole mantras, e.g., Om klim hrim...Sawastri...etc. (as 
> claimed in the book, Here Comes the Sun: The Spiritual& Musical Journey of 
> George Harrison, pg. 127.) And also, Frawley claims that the long I in shakti 
> mantras designates shakti, but the short I vowel sound is supposed to 
> designate Siva or static consciouness. So that makes me wonder why we all use 
> the short I vowel sound in MMY versions of the bija mantras (i.e., hrim, 
> instead of the normative hreem pronunciation, to cite
> but one example). Might it be because MMY thought the so-called shakti 
> mantras were too powerful for Western minds? In any event, Feurstein is a 
> very respected scholar and I trust his research and acumen. 
>
> From: Bhairitu
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 5:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Origin of bija mantras
>
>
> 
> On 09/07/2011 05:09 PM, William wrote:
>> For what it is worth, the most trusted yoga scholar I know is Dr. Georg 
>> Feurstein and according to him bija mantras are first found in the 
>> brahmanas, where they are associated with specific deities (Georg Feurstein, 
>> "Tantra: Path of Ecstasy", 16.)
> What else have you studied on tantra?
>
>
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras

[William Parkinson]

Emptybill, I find what you say fascinating. I was taught my mantra with the 
short vowel pronunciation. My own teacher said that he was taught the mantras 
by an Indian, so perhaps there was some degree of misunderstanding about the 
nature of how it should be said. Having said that, the pronunciation I use 
delivers all the same results, as I already firmly believed it would, since I 
do not believe in the numinous qualities of mantras. In my case, I am a 
thoroughgoing secularist and I don't believe in any supernatural qualities; 
either to the mantras or 'pure consciousness' being equitable, or in some sense 
a verification of, Brahmen. In my estimation, TM works because of the technique 
itself. I have changed my mantra (i.e., made one up) on purpose several times 
and it seems to work every bit as good as the one I was given in my training. M 
himself has said many times it is purely mechanical and the technique is what 
brings you to pure consciousness.
 Having said that, I do know that M also believed that the mantras were special 
and I fel certain that he believed they were numinous. Still, he placed great 
emphasis that the technique itself was what made the meditation work so 
effectively.  Of course I am still researching all of this as diligently as I 
can and I might be completely wrong as to what M thought. But I do know using 
made-up mantras has worked every bit as well as the one I was given. If nothing 
else, I think that is suggestive, and it comports well with my own thinking 
that what makes TM so special is the technique. 
Cheers
Bill

From: emptybill 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 7:58 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras


  
When I received the mantras from MMY in 1972 at the Fiuggi course, he gave them 
all with long vowels (Hreem rather than Hrim or Hrem). Since I had already read 
some of Sir John Woodroofe's books, I listened intensely to make sure I heard 
them correctly. 
 
One of the problems with not knowing how to pronounce basic Sanskrit is that 
ordinary Westerners often get it wrong, including the spelling. 
 
Some of the lists of supposed TM mantras on the net are so absurd that they 
become a real hoot. 
…….

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Not too muchm sadly. I am still learning everything I can about MMY and TM. 
> The only other interesting thing I found out that most do not know is that 
> according to Donovan, the singer who was there with the Beatles in India (as 
> I know you know already), MMY divided up longer mantras to reduce it is basic 
> easy bija mantras for Western people, who were not inclined to the religion 
> of Hinduism. This makes sense, since every time I see TM mantras they are 
> indeed part of larger whole mantras, e.g., Om klim hrim...Sawastri...etc. (as 
> claimed in the book, Here Comes the Sun: The Spiritual & Musical Journey of 
> George Harrison, pg. 127.)  And also, Frawley claims that the long I in 
> shakti mantras designates shakti, but the short I vowel sound is supposed to 
> designate Siva or static consciouness. So that makes me wonder why we all use 
> the short I vowel sound in MMY versions of the bija mantras (i.e., hrim, 
> instead of the normative hreem pronunciation,
 to cite
> but one example). Might it be because MMY thought the so-called shakti 
> mantras were too powerful for Western minds? In any event, Feurstein is a 
> very respected scholar and I trust his research and acumen.  
> 
> From: Bhairitu noozguru@...
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2011 5:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Origin of bija mantras
> 
> 
>   
> On 09/07/2011 05:09 PM, William wrote:
> > For what it is worth, the most trusted yoga scholar I know is Dr. Georg 
> > Feurstein and according to him bija mantras are first found in the 
> > brahmanas, where they are associated with specific deities (Georg 
> > Feurstein, "Tantra: Path of Ecstasy", 16.)
> 
> What else have you studied on tantra?
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras

[William Parkinson]

I would love to share it with everyone here. I saw that price too, so I ordered 
it via ILL. Hopefully, I will get it soon. Once read, I will report what the 
author's research suggests is the case on consciousness in Advaita Vedanta.
Cheers
Bill

From: authfriend 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 10:58 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras


  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> I wish I could say I understood enough about Tantric doctrines to fully 
> appreciate what you have said, but truthfully I'm not that conversant with it 
> yet. I will say one thing about Feurerstein. By his own account, he is a 
> long-term practitioner of yoga and in recent years he has turned to Tantric 
> Buddhist practices. I think he would describe himself as someone who was not 
> just a dry scholar, but an avid and long-term practitioner. In any event, 
> I'm still digging into M's thinking and theological perspective. My next read 
> is _Consciousness in Advaita Vedanta_ by William Indich.  Hopefully it can 
> cast some light on further thinking about consciousness in M's belief system.

If it does, would you share some of it with us? At $50, the
book isn't within my budget, I'm afraid!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras

[William Parkinson]

Dear Bhairitu, one religious tradition at a time! I am still learning about M 
and Advaitic thought. But one day I will take the time to explore it.
Cheers
Bill

From: Bhairitu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras


  
Nonsense. I said "hang out" not "become a disciple." I've talked with 
many an Indian (I had Indian employees where I worked) about these 
things. It was insightful to hear how a typical Indian grew up in the 
Brahmin catechism (or sometimes didn't). I also attended many a vedic 
astrology conference where many of us hung out with Indian astrologers, 
some who were tantrics. And of course I've also been to India.

Reading books is more likely to lead to confusion unless you hold them 
at arm's length in opinion. Another series I meant to mention would be 
Dr. Robert Svoboda's trilogy on tantra. I use to like to pin him and 
Hart DeFouw down on their tantric learning and especially about mantra 
shastra. Both were initiates and not spectators.

The problem for TMers has been this "purity of the teaching" thing which 
could just as well be "keep TM in it's package." At those astrology 
conferences I knew folks who were still strongly involved in the TMO but 
stil interested in learning from people from other paths. They could 
keep things sorted in their minds. And I doubt that they were ever 
banned from "the Domes."

On 09/08/2011 12:35 PM, emptybill wrote:
> A suggestion that could be lead to much confusion.
> No self-respecting Indian has less than 20-30 mantras
> on hand at any time.
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
>> I don't know where you live but I would suggest if you have an Indian
>> community there to become familiar with local yogis and tantrics.
> Many
>> will advertise in the local Indian publications as astrologers.
> You'll
>> have to sniff out the charlatans but there are some very knowledge
>> people out there. And even the an Indian immigrant will laugh at the
>> naiveté of the typical American "white guy." You don't have to
> become a
>> disciple but you'll may learn more than you will find in any book just
>> hanging out with them.
>>
>> Some Indian authored books worth reading:
>>
>> "Practicals of Mantras and Tantra" by L.R. Chawdhri
>> Not a well written book and there are miss transliterations of the
>> Devanagari mantras (hence, why you might want to learn the script
>> first). Chawdhri was also a Tantric Samrat and reveals some
> information
>> on the subject. Just note, many of these kinds of books will list
>> commonly known mantras and not ones they actually use.
>>
>> "Yantra-Mantra Tantra and Occult Sciences" by Dr. Bhojraj Dwivedi
>> This a more recently published but and better written book with much
>> information on the subject.
>>
>> "Mind -- It's Mysteries and Control" by Swami Sivananda which was
> first
>> published before Maharishi even dreamed of becoming a monk:
>> http://www.sivananda.com/MindMysteriesControl.htm
>>
>> I have long discarded TM as being "yoga lite."
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras

[William Parkinson]

That is a good price. I will wait until I read it though to see if I want 
purchase it. Tell us what you think about it, for I think you will get your 
copy long before I get mine on loan. 
Cheers
Bill
 

From: emptybill 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 12:45 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras


  
I ordered it thru Amazon (1995 edition)
for $18.95 ($22.94 w/shipping).


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson ameradian2@ wrote:
> >
> > I wish I could say I understood enough about Tantric doctrines to fully 
> > appreciate what you have said, but truthfully I'm not that conversant with 
> > it yet. I will say one thing about Feurerstein. By his own account, he is a 
> > long-term practitioner of yoga and in recent years he has turned to Tantric 
> > Buddhist practices. I think he would describe himself as someone who was 
> > not just a dry scholar, but an avid and long-term practitioner. In any 
> > event, I'm still digging into M's thinking and theological perspective. My 
> > next read is _Consciousness in Advaita Vedanta_ by William Indich. 
> >  Hopefully it can cast some light on further thinking about consciousness 
> > in M's belief system.
> 
> If it does, would you share some of it with us? At $50, the
> book isn't within my budget, I'm afraid!
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras

[William Parkinson]

For those who are interested, Abebooks.com has two copies of _Consciousness in 
Advaita Vedanta_  at the total cost, including shipping, of $15. And that is 
really an excellent buy, although I will wait to read it first before I commit 
to buying it. 
Cheers
Bill
From: emptybill 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 2:18 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Origin of bija mantras


  
This is not in any way a "definitive study".
It is a large book giving a general view of
the advaita perspective.

It could be good, perhaps, for people not familiar
with the source material or for those who need
quick reminders about certain topics.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "richardwillytexwilliams"
 wrote:
>
>
>
> William Parkinson:
> > My next read is _Consciousness in Advaita Vedanta...
> >
> "In the book Back to the Truth: 5000 years of Advaita,
> Dennis Waite's magnum opus, the definitive study of
> Advaita Vedanta (from "A" to "V") has been penned..."
> - Floyd Henderson
>
> 'Back to the Truth'
> 5000 years of Advaita
> By Dennis Waite
> O Books, 2007
> Amazon Review:
> http://tinyurl.com/3qwup6h
>
> Interview with non-duality magazine:
>
http://www.nondualitymagazine.org/nonduality_magazine.denniswaite.interv\
iew.htm
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Thank you Nab. I am in contact with the local teacher here and did get checked 
when I started again. (Annie Skipper in Kirkland WA.) Bear in mind Nab that I 
meditate only to improve myself. I am not as serious as some have been. So for 
me, if I am not saying it correct, that is ok. It is working and much faster 
than I thought. I assumed it might take three or four years to even have to 
worry about the issue of cosmic consciousness and yet here I am going into the 
fifth month and it's already quite palpable, which is exactly why I 
consulted this forum. I thought I better find out right here and now about its 
impact on sleep. But thank you for your concern, I appreciate it.
Cheers
Bill
From: nablusoss1008 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:04 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Thank you for your concern Nab. Now does anyone have anything constructive to 
> say? 
> Cheers
> Bill

Only glad to help :-) But if you disregard my constructive advice I can say 
with certaincy that you will travel further into the dead-end-road you have 
started leading nowhere. 

I can assure you that you will not receive a more constructive advise on this 
forum than having a checking the sooner the better.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Emptybill, you have hit on it exactly! This was another point of interest. The 
author of the article claims that Maharishi changed the mantras, but didn't 
really state why, other than to make them easier. You have framed this change 
within the context of making it more palatable to a Western audience.  This is 
a very rational and reasonable proposition. People on FFL need to understand 
something. Since I have returned to TM, people consistently ask me about  it. 
And I want to be as accurate as I can in everything I tell them. I deeply 
appreciate you pointing this out to me. It certainly has the ring of truth!
Cheers
Bill

From: emptybill 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:18 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  
Bill

Yours is a natural question for anyone trying to understand what a meditation 
mantra actually is.
 
However you have cited only one attempt to explain how to produce the sounds of 
these bija mantra-s. Even if you cited many different people, without knowing 
how to pronounce Sanskrit this topic will remain somewhat confusing to you. In 
the end you will still be left positioned exactly where you are now – dependent 
upon someone else to tell you how they pronounce it themselves or else the old 
reduction to "my guru sez". 
 
Be aware that Maharishi worked out a way to impart bija mantras to Westerners 
who are not used to pronouncing semi-vowels when conjoined with consonants. 
Also be aware that much of these Web attempts you are seeing are nothing but 
the guesses of the posters and that some of them are actually quite wrong. This 
is another illustration of why classically trained pandits require so many 
years of specialized training before becoming proficient. 
 
Additionally, be aware that the anusvara endings (-n, -ng, -m) of Sanskrit 
words are pronounced according to their placement in the standard five oral 
articulations of human speech sounds in Sanskrit. Not all of these exist in 
English.
 
And to make it even more confusing, understand that the pandits in differing 
parts of India pronounce some of these sounds in variant ways. 
 
As an ending note, I'll repeat a previous post of mine:
 
All modern Western scholars of Shankara or Advaita firmly reject the claim that 
Adi-Shankara was the author of either Ananda-Larari or Saundarya-Lahari.
 
Although some devotional Advaitin-s may praise these texts/songs, they are 
still Shakta (goddess) literature, which is non-dualist in orientation. 
However, Adaivtin-s can perform any legitimate practice as long as he/she 
maintains the non-dual view. 
 
That includes the Tantric practices of Shri Vidya and Shri Chakra, nowfound by 
amalgamation among many advaitins.………



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> I was taught and still have my receipt. Goodness!! I ask as a curiosity. Is 
> it not possible to discuss these issues rationally and in a collegial fashion?
> Cheers
> Bill 
> 
> From: Yifu yifuxero@...
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:34 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
> 
> 
>   
> below..."vault of the mouth". Nope - as stated or implied by others; those 
> people excessively concerned about authentic pronunciation apparently don't 
> have a clue about TM and probably were not initiated into it.
> http://skeletonart.com/Detailed/739.html
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Jul 14, 2011, at 3:28 PM, William Parkinson wrote:
> > 
> > > I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I 
> > > was taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For 
> > > example, hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this 
> > > list even valid? Thx for any information anyone might have!
> > 
> > 
> > Honestly, while this is interesting, the best way is to be instructed in 
> > the Sanskrit alphabet's proper pronunciation and where those sounds occur 
> > in the mouth. Then learn the mantras according to the proper Sanskrit 
> > pronunciation and where they occur in the vault of the the mouth.
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

LOL thank you JP. When I first saw the list I noticed he added European 
versions. I thought maybe he was European and that this was simply his way of 
pronouncing it. But on his website he claims to be an American doctor, who in 
his own estimation is a 21st-century Maharishi. I find it all very fascinating, 
even if it is sometimes confusing to me! 
Cheers
Bill 

From: jpgillam 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:22 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  
Bill, the information you cite differs from what 
I learned on my TM teacher training course. 

I suggest you have this conversation with your 
TM teacher. You've seen what a runaround you 
get here.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
>  
> I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was 
> taught. Those of you who were teachers, is this way correct? For example, 
> hearim (as in 'hear') instead of herim (as in 'her'). Is this list even 
> valid? Thx for any information anyone might have!
> Cheers
> Bill

Re: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul

[William Parkinson]

I agree wholeheartedly! What good is Enlightenment, if you do not have an 
increase in love and compassion for your fellow man? And in my own personal 
view, compassion for the animals also. I have a distinctly Jaina streak in me. 
I am nearly a vegan, and like a Jain, I look where I walk so as I don't step on 
anything. This world has enough suffering in it and I have no desire to add to 
it. Thank you again Bob! A very poignant post.
Cheers
Bill

From: Bob Price 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:17 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul


  
1 Corinthians 13
American Standard Version (ASV)
 
 1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am 
become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
 2And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; 
and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am 
nothing.
 3And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be 
burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.
 4Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, 
is not puffed up,
 5doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh 
not account of evil;
 6rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;
 7beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all 
things.
 8Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; 
whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it 
shall be done away.
 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
 10but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done 
away.
 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a 
child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
 12For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in 
part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known.
 13But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is 
love.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul

[William Parkinson]

Bob did you mean 37C.E.? I have never heard of a 337C.E. date. Is that what you 
meant?
Cheers
Bill

From: Bob Price 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:17 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul


  
1 Corinthians 13
American Standard Version (ASV)
 
 1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am 
become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
 2And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; 
and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am 
nothing.
 3And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be 
burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.
 4Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, 
is not puffed up,
 5doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh 
not account of evil;
 6rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;
 7beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all 
things.
 8Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; 
whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it 
shall be done away.
 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
 10but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done 
away.
 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a 
child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
 12For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in 
part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known.
 13But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is 
love.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Richard and Emptybill: Given my rudimentary knowledge at this point I am 
wondering if the both of you can clarify something. I went and looked up on 
Wikipedia about Sri Vidya. I thought that the basic shakti doctrine was as 
follows: Shiva is the static consciousness that pervades all things, while 
shakti represents (envisioned in feminine form) the dynamic form of 
consciousness. In essence, they have divided up the notion of Brahman. One is 
pure consciousness, static in existence, while the other is pure consciousness 
in its changeable phenomenal form? I thought all these divine goddesses were 
simply a manifestation of shakti. Is that not correct?
Cheers
Bill  

From: richardjwilliamstexas 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:04 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


emptybill: 
> All modern Western scholars of Shankara or Advaita 
> firmly reject the claim that Adi-Shankara was the 
> author of either Ananda-Larari or Saundarya-Lahari.
> 
Maybe so, but as TMers we are not concerned with what 
most Western scholars think about Shankara.

It is a fact that all the Dasanami Sannyasins worship 
the Sri Vidya and accept the Adi Shankara as the 
author of the Saundarylahri. That's why at all the 
Ammnya Mathas founded by Shankara you will find the 
Sri Chakra ensconced on the mandir. 

Our Guru Dev was a Sri Vidya adherent and his master,
Swami Krishnaanada was a Sri Vidya practitioner. So,
we TMers have a direct connection to the Sringeri
Matha, through Brahmananda Saraswati.

Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic 
meaning - that's why they're called 'mantras' 
instead of being called 'words'. If the bijas were 
Sanskrit words, there would be no need for a 
definition of them, since their meaning would be 
obvious to anyone who could read a Sanskrit 
lexicon.

So, let's review: 

In basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) 
and later the fertilizer; and you get the simple 
set of instructions for the correct angle to dive. 

So, it has now been established that at least two 
of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the fifteen, 
contained in the Saundaryalahari, are in fact, TM 
bija-mantras.

Read more:

Subject: Guru Dev and Mantrayana
Author: Willytex
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Date: December 17, 2003
http://tinyurl.com/ykp6rhs

On the origin of the TM bija mantras:

"Bija mantras issued by TM are ''Sri Vidya'' bija 
mantras. To be fair, I won't go into what they are, 
but if one listens to all TM mantras, except for 
2, they are 2 or 3 syllable, and this is a very 
important component of the technique..."

Subject: Re: Guru Dev and "Sri Vidya"
Author: Billy Smith
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Date: April 22, 2003
http://tinyurl.com/ye8my2

"You are getting "warmer" when it comes to 
understanding TM's origins with your posts regarding 
the Shankaracharya tradition and its practice of 
Srividya..."

Subject: Re: TM: Siva Sutra
Author: James Duffy
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental,
alt.yoga, alt.meditation
Date: September 21, 2003
http://tinyurl.com/yjwa2yr

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

L., forgive me, but I went though my old posts, which had several from you and 
none had any links for further research. Did I miss one of them? 
Cheers
Bill

From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:06 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
[...]
> Thank you also Turq (Lawson) for your warm welcome too. There is much I still 
> have to learn about TM, but also about the members here.  Still it has been 
> heuristically useful for me to say the least!   

Um

I note that you not only confused me with someone else but you never bothered 
to respond to my links to research on stuff...

Gotta wonder.

L.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

L., I looked again and there was the 'Yo William' one and another about the 
mission of Maharishi. I must have missed one. Maybe I deleted it by accident. 
Ther are none with any links!!
Cheers
Bill  

From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 1:21 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
> >
> > Nab, I do know how to pronounce my mantra, at least as it was told to me. 
> > But what is here is different. Excuse my curiosity
> > Cheers
> > Bill 
> > PS- My training was, after all, 11 years ago!!
> 
> 
> Stop this nonsense. 
> Either you listen to what the teacher says, or you choose to do someting 
> else. Simple.
>

Many people believe that they MUST start thinking their mantra exactly the same 
way every time. I think MY decided that if they didn't intuit from what they 
were told that this was a bit anal, that it was counter-productive to make the 
hints any stronger than they already are.

But, I'll just say that after nearly 40 years of practicing TM, it takes quite 
a bit of effort sometimes to remember exactly how my mantra was pronounced when 
I was given it.

Oh wait, TM is effortless... Did MMY lie or is there something to be learned 
from the realization that attempting to remember a specific pronunciation from 
38 years ago is often extremely difficult?

L

Re: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul

[William Parkinson]

Now I understand!! Well, my own expertise runs from 200 B.C.E. to 200 C.E.. My 
concentration and my doctoral program was in Early Christianity, Second Temple 
Judaism, and to a lesser degree Greco-Roman mystery cults (in particular, 
Mithras and Hekete). Once we get beyond 200 C.E., I fear I will be a precious 
little use. But certainly anything anyone wants to discuss I would be open to 
chiming in if I felt like anything worthwhile to add.  What did you have in 
mind?
Cheers
Bill

From: Bob Price 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul


  
Bill,
 
I was using AD (Anno Domini) interchangeably with CE (common or Christian era). 
The period I'm hoping to start a new discussion on is 31/32 C.E. (death of 
Jesus) to May 22, 337 C.E. (death of Constantine). 
 
When Robin returned some excellent serves from a number of FFL posters the 
focus was the 13th centuryand 1943 (I believe the 1943 reference concerned the 
bombing by the Allies of the Benedictine Monastery at Mount Cassino).
 
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,796392,00.html

From: William Parkinson 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:36:08 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul


  
Bob did you mean 37C.E.? I have never heard of a 337C.E. date. Is that what you 
meant?
Cheers
Bill

From: Bob Price 
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" 
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:17 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul


  
1 Corinthians 13
American Standard Version (ASV)
 
 1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am 
become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
 2And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; 
and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am 
nothing.
 3And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be 
burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.
 4Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, 
is not puffed up,
 5doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh 
not account of evil;
 6rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;
 7beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all 
things.
 8Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; 
whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it 
shall be done away.
 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
 10but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done 
away.
 11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a 
child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
 12For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in 
part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known.
 13But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is 
love.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

L., no wonder I never saw it. I did not read any posts in this thread. Normally 
I don't read other threads here unless they pertain directly to meditation. I 
don't read the political ones, nor a variety of other threads. The e-mail you 
sent, and its relevancy, I think falls upon how you want to define TM. In your 
e-mail you are pressing the points based only on the meditative technique and 
the state of consciousness that it produces. Nevertheless, when viewed through 
the prism of religious scholarship, I think any scholar would see the TM 
organization is being profoundly steeped in Hinduism. There are so many points 
of contact between the TM organization and normative Hindu beliefs that I don't 
think anyone can really question that. Personally, I have always viewed 
Maharishi as being a perfectly orthodox Hindu, at least within his own Advaita 
tradition. By the way, my old TM teacher has told me that he thought that one 
day there would be a bifurcation of
 the organization. There would be a Western branch and an Indian branch. The 
Western branch would emphasize exactly the points that you have brought up here 
and no doubt divest itself of some of the more overt mystical and Hindu 
elements. The Indian branch, would of course, cloak itself in the garb of 
Hinduism, which is entirely appropriate. Anyway, I am sorry I missed this, but 
I didn't read any posts in this particular thread. Was this the particular link 
you were pointing out in your other post to me?
Cheers
Bill

From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 6:59 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> L., forgive me, but I went though my old posts, which had several from you 
> and none had any links for further research. Did I miss one of them? 
> Cheers
> Bill

Re: "The Soul is extracted and judged by weight"

An email I fired off recently might be of interest to you:

Dear Professor Brown,

I just finished reading your article, Doubt as Methodology and Object in the
Phenomenology of Religion, found in M/C Journal
http://www.journal.media-culture.org.au/index.php/mcjournal/article/viewArticle/\
334 ...

I'd like to present the TM theoretical "take" of the Vedic philosophy and ask
that you reconsider calling TM a religion, per se:

Rather than theories or beliefs about God, the Universe and Everything that are
strictly the product of the specific culture that they are found in, TM theory
asserts that these are cultural interpretations of states of consciousness that
are natural to humans, regardless of culture. TM theory further asserts that TM
is a "technique" (in the same sense that "the Way that cannot be spoken" is a
technique) that increases the probability that practitioners will enter into the
state of consciousness called "turya" -"pure consciousness"- in the Upanishads.
The theory further asserts that long-term practice of TM, alternated with normal
activity, leads to the situation called "turyatita" (quality of turya) where
turya is omni-present, in some sense, in the individual.

This theory is nothing new. You can find it, with minor variations, in various
places. E.G. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya

What IS unique to TM theory, however, are the assertions that:

1) turya is a physiological state of the brain in the Western scientific sense,
that can be measured using the tools of Western science;
2) that turyatita is likewise a measurable state;
3) that turya is the state of least stress in a resting nervous system;
4) the process of TM is merely a resting state of the nervous system that
repairs stress (note that obvious episodes of turya are NOT required for this
resting state to be effective --one can become fully "enlightened" according to
TM theory, without ever having a clear experience of turya during meditation, at
least prior to full enlightenment);
4) turyatita is merely a state in mature adults whose nervous systems are
sufficiently strong and mature due to lack of physiological stress that turya is
evident, even during waking, dreaming and sleeping.

this leads to the logical conclusion that turyatita is NOT some esoteric state,
and that the physiological signature of turya during meditation should more
likely appear, not only in long-term practitioners of TM contrasted with
non-meditating or short-term meditating controls, but also in non-meditators
whose success in life suggests that their nervous systems are very efficient,
e.g.: world champion athletes (as compared to non-champion professionals in the
same sport), professional classical musicians (as compared to amateur classical
musicians) and high-functioning business managers as compared to their less
successful counterparts.

Research on the physiological correlates of turya found during 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Thank you so much Emptybill. I wonder if you or Richard might be able to answer 
the following two questions. 1) Do Hindus who adhere to the Advaita tradition 
consider Shankara a shakta? 2) Do we know whether GuruDev  and MMY thought of 
their particular strand of Advaita as being fully within the shakti tradition? 
In short, would both men consider themselves, and Shankara, as shaktas?
Cheers
Bill

From: emptybill 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:53 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  
This could be a duplicate Yahoo post or maybe not.
Sorry but no troth with Yahoo.


Bill,
 
Contrary to what you might read, "Shakti" does not mean "energy", as in 
electricity, but rather "power". 
Shakti(power) carries none of our modern connotations of a strictly mechanistic 
force but rather points to what Shakta-s (shakti initiates) see as the 
intelligence(s) that actualize the cosmos and enact its unmanifest design. 
You seem to recognize that Shaktivada (shakti-ism) is a doctrine (-vada) that 
is quite separate from Advaita. It is a doctrine asserting that there is a 
universal power that manifests the cosmos and that it's actualizations are 
various all-constituting intelligences. Since these are intelligences, rather 
than insentient material forces, the further insight is that they are 
accessible to other intelligences (like us) and that there is a methodology for 
doing just this. That methodology is called Tantra and includes not only 
formulae for contacting these intelligences but also specific etiquettes for 
creating, maintaining and enhancing this contact. These intelligences are 
deva-s/devi-s … the numinous presences that constitute and animate our body, 
along with our sense powers, mental operations and the functions of 
consciousness (chitta).
All of these internal deva-s/devi-s are considered micro-processes of 
macro-intelligences that are massively awake and actively cognizant. They are 
the internal-external values that order, organize and interconnect the various 
subjective/objective strata of the universe. This, however, does not include 
Awareness (chit) which is a reality eulogized as Shiva, the auspicious One, the 
Presence-Awareness-Felicity that is the essence of all true identity.
Sounds abstract but that's the cliff notes version for dummies like me. You may 
find it a mere iteration of what you already know but it never hurts of hear it 
again.
 
Now I think I'll go have a beer.……


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Richard and Emptybill: Given my rudimentary knowledge at this point I am 
> wondering if the both of you can clarify something. I went and looked up on 
> Wikipedia about Sri Vidya. I thought that the basic shakti doctrine was as 
> follows: Shiva is the static consciousness that pervades all things, while 
> shakti represents (envisioned in feminine form) the dynamic form of 
> consciousness. In essence, they have divided up the notion of Brahman. One is 
> pure consciousness, static in existence, while the other is pure 
> consciousness in its changeable phenomenal form? I thought all these divine 
> goddesses were simply a manifestation of shakti. Is that not correct?
> Cheers
> Bill  
> 
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Thank you so much Richard. I am learning a great deal from you and a number of 
other people on the forum. I asked both you, and Emptybill, two questions over 
on the e-mail I sent from Emptybill's reply. If you have the time please read 
it and see if you can cast some light on those two questions. Thank you again!
Cheers
Bill

From: richardjwilliamstexas 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:27 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


William Parkinson:
> Shiva is the static consciousness that pervades all 
> things, while shakti represents (envisioned in 
> feminine form) the dynamic form of consciousness...
>
The answer lies in the relationship of the Sri Vidya 
tradition and Kashmere Saivism. In the Shankaracharya 
tradition, Shankara was born at Kaladi, where he was 
a sort of child prodigy linguist, at an early age. 

Shankara went to study with Gaudapada, and then 
subsequently travelled to Kashi, and then to the Upper 
Kashi, where he founded the Jyotir Math and composed 
his commentary on 'Vedanta Sutra' and 'Bhagavad Gita'.

Shankara then traveled to Kashmere where he got the 
Sri Yantra and took it to Karnataka where he placed it 
on the altar and called the place Sringeri, after the 
Shakti. It was at Sringeri that Shankara composed the 
'Ode to the South Facing Form' and the 'Saundarylahari'.

According to Theos Bernard, Kashmere Saivism teaches 
that conciousness alternates between two phases, rest 
and action. You can easily see the relation to TM 
practice when you consider that this is almost exactly 
what MMY said at Squaw Valley!

The phase of transcendental rest is called 'Pralaya' 
in Sanskrit, which has no first beginning, therefore 
no primal cause. The world of matter is only another 
form of conciousness.

The Vedanta doctrine contends that there is only one 
ultimate reality which never changes; therefore the 
manifest world is an 'appearance' only, Maya.

Kashmere Saivism contends that there is only one 
reality, but it has *two aspects*. The manifestation, 
Maya, is real. This is based on the argument that the 
effect cannot be different from its cause.

However, according to the Siva Sutra, human logic can 
never construct an unassailable monism; the final 
proof can be had only by the experience of yogic 
samadhi, attained through mantric meditation.

Centering - An excerpt from the 'Bhairava Tantra', 
translated by Swami by Laksmanjoo:

7. Devi, imagine the Sanskrit letters in these 
honey-filled foci of awareness, first as letters, then 
more subtly as sounds, then as most subtle feeling. 
Then, leaving them aside, be free.

14. Bathe in the center of sound, as in the continuous 
sound of a waterfall. Or, by putting fingers in ears, 
hear the sound of sounds.

19. Intone a sound audibly, then less and less audible 
as feeling deepens into this silent harmony.

Read more:
http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/centering.htm

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Hi Rob. What I found interesting in the pronunciation was simply this: books on 
mantra meditation that I have state very emphatically that the mantra must be 
pronounced absolutely clearly and correctly. I assume because they believe that 
the mantra is some sort of sonic representation, if not sonic manifestation, of 
the deity. Yet in TM we are told the mantra might will change as we use it. And 
the mantra should ideally be a faint thought--not something clear and strong in 
our minds.This was part of my interest in this varient ways of saying the 
mantras.  
Cheers
Bill

From: Robert 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 9:29 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
> > >
> > > Nab, I do know how to pronounce my mantra, at least as it was told to me. 
> > > But what is here is different. Excuse my curiosity
> > > Cheers
> > > Bill 
> > > PS- My training was, after all, 11 years ago!!
> > 
> > 
> > Stop this nonsense. 
> > Either you listen to what the teacher says, or you choose to do someting 
> > else. Simple.
> >
> 
> Many people believe that they MUST start thinking their mantra exactly the 
> same way every time. I think MY decided that if they didn't intuit from what 
> they were told that this was a bit anal, that it was counter-productive to 
> make the hints any stronger than they already are.
> 
> But, I'll just say that after nearly 40 years of practicing TM, it takes 
> quite a bit of effort sometimes to remember exactly how my mantra was 
> pronounced when I was given it.
> 
> Oh wait, TM is effortless... Did MMY lie or is there something to be learned 
> from the realization that attempting to remember a specific pronunciation 
> from 38 years ago is often extremely difficult?
> 
> L
>
There is no need to remember the mantra with a specific pronunciation...that's 
not it at all...allow it to unfold naturally, and if you can't remember 
specific prounciation, don't worry about it...
A mantra is just a vehicle for transcending thought...
We pick up the mantra to transcend the mantra...
The objective of TM is to become familiar with the process of transcending 
thought, and the experience of pure consciousness when thought is transcended...
That's all there is to it; it's not necessary to complicate the procedure in 
any way...
Keep it as simple as possible...
TM teaches how to be 'effortless'...so when you find that you are sliding into 
effort, just let go, and be effortless...

R.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

Thank you so much Ravi!! You have a very interesting story. And I can now see 
your inability to sleep for those periods is something quite different than 
what might happen in TM. If I understand you correctly, it seems as if you had 
too much energy. And later you crashed. It has some associative points of 
contact with manic-depressive states. I am just knowledgeable enough to know 
that kundalini-style yoga seems to emphasize moving energy around the various 
chakras. The problem in TM seems to be that the recognition within oneself of 
this silent innerlayer never leaves even during sleep. Your state was high 
energy, the TM state during sleep might be compared to a dimly lit candle-- but 
one nevertheless never goes out even during sleep. I am go thankful that you 
nshard this with me. I have a great awareness now of what happened to you and 
maybe it is also a cautionary tale against using this type of yoga in some 
cases. 
Cheers
Bill  

From: Ravi Yogi 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 10:27 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Unlike Ravi, Jim, and perhaps Robin, I really find the whole notion of not 
> sleeping very troubling. 

Bill, I have to clarify that I mostly sleep like a log now, I did mention that 
I didn't sleep much for a few months during my Kundalini descension and 
explained that I believe now that it was an unnatural state since my body had 
decided it was under threat and probably never triggered the right chemicals 
that would let me fall asleep.

> In any event I want to make this my last post on the subject, given that it 
> has developed into some side issues that I never meant to dig   > up. 

No worries - welcome to FFL, threads veer off in all different directions and 
several are hijacked for personal battles. Pretty soon you will be familiar 
with the opposing players and if need be either indulge or learn techniques to 
steer clear.

> Thx so much Barry. I took your admonishment seriously and I felt, and do 
> still feel, it was heartfelt. And yes you are right. I have taken them at 
> their word, even though I know this is such a subjective thing. Nevertheless, 
> even if they only got close to so-called 'Enlightenment' it is very 
> interesting to talk to them and see what state of mind they were in and what 
> effect it had on their personal lives. 

I have to clarify that I have never used the "E" word, I only share my 
experiencesin the hope it might help or inspire someone.In fact I frequently 
sometimes I think there's something wrong with me, my personal situation is 
messed up, there's lot of strife,struggle in the world, the problems require 
someone mature and responsible but yet here I am I feel blissed out for no 
reason and act in a silly playful manner like a child.

> Ravi, I would still be very interested in hearing what you have to say 
> concerning how, and in what way, these types of intense periods of 
> illumination has helped you.

I would have to first briefly describe these intense periods of illumination. 
Over a period of 7 years I went through a several stages which I would refer to 
as Kundalini ascension, each experience lasted a week or 2 where as the energy 
ascended to my head I noticed heightened sensitivity, intense emotions and 
toward the end, intense derealization & depersonalization ending in a powerful 
surge of energy that would leave me in an absolute dread and then boom it would 
be gone and I would sleep exhausted. The end phase almost happened in the night 
time with heightened senses as if on guard against an attack. I would return to 
normal consciousness the next day. 

I have to add a quick disclaimer here that I have never tried any psychedelic 
drugs or never been on any prescription medication ever. However the period 
above was followed by intense personal problems with my marriage, wanting to 
feel love and be loved, being in a emotionally abusive relationship.

I had a final intense one in 2009, however unlike the previous ones when I got 
up the next morning I was in intense bliss, as if intense blissful energy had 
entered in to me. This episode lasted 3 weeks and was one of the 2 episodes of 
Kundalini descension, the other one in April-May last year which everyone here 
is aware of because of my erratic behavior.The first in 2009 for 3 weeks and 
second for 6 weeks. Unlike the previous experiences which were very 
uncomfortable, this was pure bliss which increased in intensity, I felt as if 
energy was descending in droves, as each day progressed and at the end I went 
through a stage of psychosis which helped my body, mind, ego to make the 
transition. The state of psychosis was only a few hours during the first 
whereas in the second it was much intense and over a period of 5 days. After I 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A word from St. Paul

[William Parkinson]

Hi Emptybill. Adamantius, or as we refer to him Origen of Alexandria. All the 
Anti-Nicene fathers are sources in the study of Early Christianity.
Cheers
Bill 

 
AFrom: emptybill 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 10:31 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A word from St. Paul


  
Which Origen do you mean? 

1. Origen Adamantius (ÅŒrigénÄ"s) the Christian Theologian
2. Origen the Pagan, student of Ammonius Saccus
and a contemporary of Plotinus?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Yifu"  wrote:
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Origen2.jpg 
> Origen, missed. Cut him off at the pass 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ wrote:
> >
> > 
> > To bad for you.
> > You missed Plotinus and the other Platonists that
> > followed him until Justinian closed the academy.
> > No wonder you don't believe in this stuff.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Exactly Rick. Which is not what some mantra works suggest. That is what I think 
is interesting. If these mantras are the 'sonic representations' of the deity, 
one would think they should be spoken, or thought inside, clearly and 
correctly. If that is so, then what are we to make of our TM way of not 
thinking it but faintly? What did MMY think of these mantras? Are they 
symbolic, or merely tools to allow us to go inside?  
Cheers
Bill

From: Rick Archer 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  
From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of William Parkinson
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:48 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
 
  
Hi Rob. What I found interesting in the pronunciation was simply this: books on 
mantra meditation that I have state very emphatically that the mantra must be 
pronounced absolutely clearly and correctly. I assume because they believe that 
the mantra is some sort of sonic representation, if not sonic manifestation, of 
the deity. Yet in TM we are told the mantra might will change as we use it. And 
the mantra should ideally be a faint thought--not something clear and strong in 
our minds.This was part of my interest in this varient ways of saying the 
mantras.
 
The TM instructions explicit advise NOT trying to think or pronounce the mantra 
clearly: “Mental repetition is not a clear pronunciation; just a faint idea.”
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)

[William Parkinson]

I do remember it, but not the full gist now. You will have to forgive me. Can 
you 'enlighten' me about it (pun intended). 
Cheers
Bill 

From: whynotnow7 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 5:51 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)


  
Hi Bill, Your user name reminds me of the word amerindian. I am curious if you 
saw my comment earlier pertaining to coddling your bliss and what your thoughts 
are about that please? 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> L., no wonder I never saw it. I did not read any posts in this thread. 
> Normally I don't read other threads here unless they pertain directly to 
> meditation. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A word from St. Paul

[William Parkinson]

Actually scholars in this area know all of these names. However, in practical 
terms, the only name we really interact with from time to time is Origen. So, 
for example, if one wanted to look at the nascent Alexandrian  Christianity one 
would look at these names: Apollo, the authorr of Hebrews (which many 
speculate was Apollo), Philo (who was Jewish), Clement, and to a lesser degree 
Tertullian, and Origen, to name but a few. Depending on the question in hand 
they might also have to interact with the Gnostic finds at Nag Hammadi or at 
Oxyrhyncus. We must do so to trace certain traditions which are recorded in 
these works. 
Cheers
Bill

From: emptybill 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 8:15 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A word from St. Paul


  
To bad for you. 
You missed Plotinus and the other Platonists that
followed him until Justinian closed the academy. 
No wonder you don't believe in this stuff.……
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, William Parkinson  wrote:
>
> Now I understand!! Well, my own expertise runs from 200 B.C.E. to 200 C.E.. 
> My concentration and my doctoral program was in Early Christianity, Second 
> Temple Judaism, and to a lesser degree Greco-Roman mystery cults (in 
> particular, Mithras and Hekete). Once we get beyond 200 C.E., I fear I will 
> be a precious little use. But certainly anything anyone wants to discuss I 
> would be open to chiming in if I felt like anything worthwhile to add.  What 
> did you have in mind?
> Cheers
> Bill
> 
> From: Bob Price bobpriced@...
> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 4:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul
> 
> 
>   
> Bill,
>  
> I was using AD (Anno Domini) interchangeably with CE (common or Christian 
> era). The period I'm hoping to start a new discussion on is 31/32 
> C.E. (death of Jesus) to May 22, 337 C.E. (death of Constantine). 
>  
> When Robin returned some excellent serves from a number of FFL posters the 
> focus was the 13th centuryand 1943 (I believe the 1943 reference concerned 
> the bombing by the Allies of the Benedictine Monastery at Mount Cassino).
>  
> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,796392,00.html
> 
> From: William Parkinson ameradian2@...
> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:36:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul
> 
> 
>   
> Bob did you mean 37C.E.? I have never heard of a 337C.E. date. Is that what 
> you meant?
> Cheers
> Bill
> 
> From: Bob Price bobpriced@...
> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 2:17 PM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] A word from St. Paul
> 
> 
>   
> 1 Corinthians 13
> American Standard Version (ASV)
>  
>  1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am 
> become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal.
>  2And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all 
> knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not 
> love, I am nothing.
>  3And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be 
> burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.
>  4Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not 
> itself, is not puffed up,
>  5doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, 
> taketh not account of evil;
>  6rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;
>  7beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all 
> things.
>  8Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done 
> away; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, 
> it shall be done away.
>  9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;
>  10but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be 
> done away.
>  11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a 
> child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.
>  12For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in 
> part; but then shall I know fully even as also I was fully known.
>  13But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these 
> is love.
>  
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras

[William Parkinson]

Hi Bhairitu. What is the JyotishList all about?
Cheers
Bill

From: Bhairitu 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras


  
On 07/14/2011 10:43 PM, Ravi Yogi wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
>> You have opened a whole can of worms here. I've watched for years
>> different tantra school argue over whether the beej mantras should
> have
>> use the "ng" ending or the "m" ending. They have slightly different
>> effects as far as "resonance patterns" go. And Indians given their
>> nature will argue passionately over this, making the arguments on FFL
>> look very wimpy (I'm sure Ravi will agree).
>>
> Bhairitu - I have to plead ignorance in spite of being born a Brahmin,
> you and others seem to be more well versed and yeah lot of Indians for
> sure. However give me some Sanskrit slokas and I will chant it
> perfectly, comes naturally to me.

I wasn't talking about the knowledge but how Indians love to argue. 
They really went at it on one forum over the ng and m endings. And just 
wander over to the JyotishList on Yahoo. There is often a brawl going 
on there. ;-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Quiet time meditation for Parents tooBuck is a badge required?here?

[William Leed]

If 1 were to go htere is a badge required to enter? 
What is the address of said Flying hall? exactly?



-Original Message-
From: dhamiltony2k5 
To: FairfieldLife 
Sent: Sat, Nov 16, 2013 5:39 pm
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Quiet time meditation for Parents too




Downtown Flying Hall will open for early group meditation program at 2:30pm, 
Mon-Fri. We have created this special time so that parents can do their 
meditation program together and finish in time to be with their children coming 
home from school. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Right Place, Right Time< WE CHOOSE OUR INCARNATION TIME SO ITS ALWAYS BEST4 US!

[William Leed]

-Original Message-
From: Michael Jackson 
To: FairfieldLife 
Sent: Sun, Nov 24, 2013 5:15 am
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Right Place, Right Time


That's my way too, the other way, Marshy's way you keep the spectre of the 
unpleasant task looming in your awareness while you do the easy stuff - creates 
stress and screws up the enjoyment of the stuff one loves to do. Amazing that 
an 
"enlightened" feller got it wrong.

On Sun, 11/24/13, s3raph...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Right Place, Right Time
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, November 24, 2013, 2:40 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Re "I also thought it
 interesting that Maharishi said that when you have a bunch
 of tasks to do, do the easy ones first to build up momentum.
 Then do the difficult ones.":
 The exact opposite
 of my approach. When I have a series of tasks to get out the
 way I always do the ones I dislike most first so that
 I'm always advancing towards the tasks I find easiest -
 even enjoyable. That's better psychology  - at
 least it suits my temperament.  
 
 ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote:
 
 John, I also thought it interesting
 that Maharishi said that when you're taking a test or
 have a bunch of tasks to do, do the easy ones first to build
 up momentum. Then do the difficult ones.
 
  
  
  On Saturday, November 23, 2013 5:29
 PM, "jr_esq@..."  wrote:
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
Richard,
 MMY
 stated to take the path of least resistance.  That is
 the more likely the correct alternative.  Jyotish can
 help in that regard.
 But
 some people have a problem with that.  IMO, they end up
 fighting for a lost cause.  FWIW. 
 
 ---In
  FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 wrote:
 
 This
 got me to thinking too, about being in the right place at
 the right 
 
 time. I wonder how much being in the right place at the
 right time is a 
 
 matter of personal choice or just plain old karma.
 
 
 
 As I get older I've begun to think back about the
 choices I made in the 
 
 past, and why I made those choices. Only a few times can I
 remember 
 
 actually deciding what to do - there's always some force
 involved that 
 
 is often unseen or accounted for.
 
 
 
 Most of the time being where I was was not something I had
 much control 
 
 over - it was mostly a matter of necessity and/or survival.
 Most of us 
 
 don't get to make real choices - we think we do, but
 mainly we make 
 
 choices because of finances that seem to dictate where we
 go, how we 
 
 live, and what we do.
 
 
 
 But, if you look back and examine things and events real
 closely, you 
 
 may find that  things and events happen for a reason,
 sometimes for 
 
 reasons we don't understand at the time. Everything is
 connected and 
 
 every action we take comes from a cause - there's not
 much free will 
 
 when you really think about it.
 
 
 
 If we've all lived lives in the past, you'll realize
 that there's 
 
 nothing much we can do now to change what came before - all
 we can do 
 
 now is try to make things better for ourselves in the
 future. For some, 
 
 being in the right place at the right times is just a matter
 of fate, 
 
 but I think most of what happens to us is the result of what
 we did in 
 
 the past, which we often don't even understand. If we
 could go back and 
 
 make another different decision, who knows what would
 happen?
 
 
 
 Karma is a bitch! Remember the future.
 
 
 
  
 On 11/23/2013 8:39 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
 
 > Bein' in the right place at the right time...
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




To subscribe, send a message to:
fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com

Or go to: 
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and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo Groups Links




 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: RE: Going out of my mind? DO U HAVE FAR @ TRAVEL?

[William Leed]

LIE the JFK  thing drop forget it.


-Original Message-
From: authfriend 
To: FairfieldLife 
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2013 12:24 pm
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: RE: Going out of my mind?






I just watched it. It's stunning, raunchy. I've seen an awful lot of JFK 
tribute videos in the past 50 years, and I think this is the best. Simple and 
understated, but incredibly powerful.
 

Emily wrote:


> Raunchy, this video was really good; brought tears to my eyes

Re: [FairfieldLife] PLEASE BAR the nasty ones here RE: The Vivid and Present Threat of Hooliganism on Fairfield Life.

[William Leed]

-Original Message-
From: dhamiltony2k5 
To: FairfieldLife 
Sent: Tue, Nov 26, 2013 2:10 pm
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Vivid 
and Present Threat of Hooliganism on Fairfield Life.






Meanness,the tiger at the door of FFL.
Eternalvigilance is the price of our freedoms on FFL.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25027090 
 


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:


DearFFL Management, It is time for our own FFL management to 
administrateswiftly and clean this membership bad blood from our FFL 
communitylist.  It is certainly time for summary judgment by our own 
communitymanagement to protect the very life and existence anymore ofFairfield 
Life on Yahoo-groups.  Management should justly act on allour behalf to protect 
things here.  At this point of long enduranceit is obvious.   Your Management 
does not even need to be nice aboutit.  There is no need for explanation or 
engagement of the perpsanymore.  It is time to save FFL.  Before it is too 
late.  It is timefor summary judgment and execution,
-Buck 
 




Please help us keep YahooGroups an enjoyable and positive experience. If you 
see a Group orcontent that violates our rules, please let us know by 
contactingus. 
 




Yahoo! in guideline says: “Don't be unkind. Exploitativeor degrading comments 
are not welcome in Groups. Also not welcome arebelligerence, insults, slurs, 
profanity or ranting.” 


Be courteous. Everyone wants to be treated with respect, and showing respect to 
others makes the community better for all members.


Yahoo Groups, in its sole discretion, may terminate or remove any content, 
Group or your Yahoo ID immediately and without notice if (a) Yahoo believes 
that you have acted inconsistently with the spirit or the letter of the Yahoo 
Terms of Service or the Yahoo Groups Guidelines,
 




DearFriends;  Asa group we must put an end to unkind posts here.  
Certainlywe had been hooligan-ed again and again.  In the very open nature 
ofour forum community here hooliganism can transit through, now though as a 
groupwe certainly need to have much more consciousness against it andswift 
moderation in reaction.  Against hooliganismhere and any such hooliganists we 
clearly must better straighten andtighten things up with FFL alongside the 
Yahoo groups guidelines andbe square with our own guidelines against unkindness 
as hooliganism to protect thevery existence of our FFL group here.  Or, without 
congruence ofguideline we run the very real risk of running up against the 
YahooGroups guidelines themselves.  



Actually Turq's is a fair summary of a longer history.
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/364184



I feel Rick as owner here in conjunction with Yahoo Groups unkindnessguidelines

has good grounds to act swiftly and summarily on this.
Rick would not even need to explain himself doing it.
Most all understand that FFL was derailed and taken over byunkindness.
Rick, get this over with and save the FFL group
before Yahoo groups management closes it.
The grounds are certainly clear for this,  
-Buck 




 


 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:


“Theycould take us all down in unkindness.” 
 



RWwrites:  Itlooks like the group needs a purging, again. 
 


Yes, 


Inmoderating the unkindness here on FFL, frankly I would urge Rick asthe owner 
and supreme leader here to be much quicker to suspend thead hominem as abuse 
and the unkindness it is when it occurs here. For instance, I should urge Rick 
as moral compass here to start withthe instigators of the mean-girl-ing that 
has been going on here.  Itis unbearably unkind as it has gone on in form and 
could certainlyterminate our whole group as it runs up against the 
Yahoo-groupsguidelines.  As its own form of hooliganism this is now the time 
tosave FFL and put an end to the culture of the bad-girl-ing ad hominemthat has 
charged in on FFL.  Rick, as your friend and support in thisI urge you to use a 
strong hand on those unkind trying to post on FFL. Be firm with this 
hooliganism on FFL,  -Buck 

 
 


As a Group wemust put an end to unkind postings and posters on FFL. 
 



DearFairfield Life and guest Yahoo-Groups Moderators;



Yahoo! guideline says: “Don't be unkind. Exploitativeor degrading comments are 
not welcome in Groups. Also not welcome arebelligerence, insults, slurs, 
profanity or ranting.” 
 



 
In Faifield Life wrote:


Rick,Keep a close watch out on the mean-girls club too.  They could take usall 
down in unkindness.
-Buck 


wrote:Idon’t have time to keep a close watch out on anything on FFL, 
butif someone gets too outrageous and someone brings it to my attention,I 
usually say to wait and see if they simmer down, and if they don’t,I do 
something about it. 


-In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote: 




From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] ;On 
Behalf OfBuck@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 20,

Re: [FairfieldLife] The Rent is Too Damn HIGH ...no ITS JUST RIGHT & NOT 2 HIGH ITS THE MARKET PRICE EXACTLY

[William Leed]

BUILD A HOME & RENT IT OR BUY OIL STOCKS, SAVE SOME $$ & THEN BECOME AN OWNER! 
wITH PROFITS IF U CHOOSE TO MAKE THEM BE HAPPY IN THE DOME!
ENJOY THE RIDE & BE MORE HAPPY & POSITIVE LOOK 4 THE SUN & THE PROFITS


-Original Message-
From: Richard J. Williams 
To: FairfieldLife 
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2013 7:38 pm
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Rent is Too Damn High!


  



Today we went to the grocery store to  get a few things and return about a 
hundred plastic bags. In the  parking lot I turned left to find a parking 
slot and there was  this yahoo in a big truck heading toward me, GOING THE 
WRONG WAY,  driving a Ford F-350 with dual wheels on back.
  
  At first I said "You **fukin **#@*&^^!!!#@&*%$#%@ SOB! 
  
  Then, I realized the poor guy was not only real dumb and half  blind 
and confused, but he was probably driving the only vehicle  he owned and 
paying $600 a month in payments, just to go get a  six-pack of beer and a 
carton of cigarettes at the store. Go  figure.
  
  So then, in the Christmas spirit, I said:  you **fukin  
**#@*&^^!!!#@&*%$#%@ poor bastard!" and backed up, causing  a traffic jam 
in front of the store.
  
  Then, on the way home at a stop light, a guy dressed in overalls  
with a styrofoam cup in his hand  tried to hit us up for some  spare 
change. So, still in the Christmas spirit, I rolled down the  window and 
said real nice: "We don't have any cash - we're living  on credit cards. 
Sorry we can't donate anything - I know it looks  like I'm rich because I'm 
driving a shiny new car, but this where  all our money is going, just so we 
can get to the store to buy  some beer and a few canned goods!" LoL!
  
  When we got home, the Salvation Army called on the telephone to  ask 
if we could donate anything and to leave it on the front porch  FRIDAY THE 
13th. You can't make this stuff up!
  
  The rent is too damn high! 
  
  On 12/6/2013 3:10 PM, Bhairitu wrote:


  

 

I used to change the oil myself  on my '77 Subaru wagon.  But it is 
a messy job and  required a custom oil filter.  Current oil changes 
at the  local shop up the street who now do my Subaru maintenance   
   is $40.  How much time depends on how busy they are but  
the longest wait would be about an hour.  I watch the oil  to see 
how dirty it is.  However I have yet to reach the  miles they put 
on the sticker a year ago.  Everything I  need is a short trip 
around here so I don't rack up miles  and they always kid me about 
all the driving I do.
  
  I heard a report the other day on why car prices have 
 exceeded inflation over the years and the bottom line  was.. 
you got it... profit.  Adding air bags do not  add much to the 
price though companies use safety features  as a reason.  In 1973 I 
bought a new Datsun wagon for a  mere $1800.  I put the figure for 
my '77 Subaru wagon in  an inflation calculator and my $2800 '77 
should only cost  around $11K these days adjusted for inflation.
  
  OTOH, the other day I ordered a new keyless remote for the
  '98 Subaru since the second of the original pair was  
beginning to fall apart.  A few years back I looked online  and 
found that the price for a remote was around $70.   This time I 
found one online for my year and model for  only $15 including 
shipping.  It was easy to setup and  works great.
  
  On 12/06/2013 11:40 AM, Richard Williams wrote:




  
Our car dealer says we should be changing the oilin our new 
car every 3,000 miles, in order to insurethe warranty. We 
can do this by driving out to thedealership, waiting in 
line, and either leaving thecar, or wait in the waiting 
room, and then pay $55.It usually takes more than an hour, 
if you get therereal early during the week.
  

  
  
The last time I had the oil changed at 10,000miles, I took 
the car to Jiffy Lube - it took onlyabout twenty minutes 
and I paid them $65. Theytalked me into getting synthetic 
oil - Royal Purple.They tried to sell me an air filter for 
$18 - but Ideclined.
  

  
  
According to Click & Clack, The TappitBrothers, you can

Re: [FairfieldLife] Congress Fears Out of Control Obama Could Suspend Election Laws SPOT ON! from Col LEED

[William Leed]

We so fear 7 must act some how. 1 way  is to meditate in groups & another is to 
bear arms if needed!



-Original Message-
From: emptybill 
To: FairfieldLife 
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2013 8:32 pm
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Congress Fears Out of Control Obama Could Suspend 
Election Laws






>From DHS enacting ‘Constitution-freezones‘, to executive orderstaking over all 
>forms of communication authority within the United States —the Obama 
>Administration has already gone far beyond corruption and deceptionand into an 
>entirely new level of dictatorial control. And now, even leadingcongressional 
>officials are openly questioning how truly tyrannical Obama’snext move may be.


Always operating with a straightface while trampling all over the Constitution, 
it seems Obama has no remorsewhen it comes to going against the people of the 
United States and its legalsystem as a whole. We all remember when Obama began 
issuing calls to attackSyria following a very sketchy chemical attack scenario, 
only to be met with fierceopposition. Ultimately, we did force Obama to back 
off amid complete and utterdisapproval, but now even high level congressional 
officials are concerned asto what Obama’s next move will be.


Specifically, Rep. TreyGowdy from South Carolina has now publicly raised fears 
that Obama could goahead and suspend election laws in order to maintain control 
of the presidency.Gowdy says that since Obama has already decided to overturn 
the standing law onillegal immigrants, effectively declaring that the law no 
longer applies tothem without any congressional backing, then what is to stop 
him from failingto enforce election laws? 



During  a recorded a House JudiciaryCommittee hearing, Gowdyasked:
“If the president can fail toenforce immigration laws, can the president 
likewise fail to enforce electionlaws?”


And he is asking a validquestion, though it’s essential to understand that 
Obama and his administrationhave already gone above and beyond the already 
unprecedented levels of tyrannyset by the Bush administration with legislation 
like the Patriot Act. Now, wemust understand that Obama is getting away with 
completely stepping over theConstitution and the overall foundation of the 
United States — and it’s time weraise that message loud and clear.


http://www.storyleak.com/video-congress-fears-control-obama-suspend-election-laws/

[FairfieldLife] Hello Fairfield

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Hi folks, I have just joined and looking to learn more about the whole 
Maharishi thing from the folks who actually live in Fairfield.
I just broke up with a woman who has been a hard core meditator for 25 
yrs. I think she's been  totally brain washed by this movement and the 
Maharishi. 

I calmly said to her the other day I thought he (Maharishi) was a liar 
a cheat and a fruad. I thought she was going to kill me. I have never 
witnessed such anger rage or hatred in my life.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Thank you Sal.

There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing.  She told me 
many times things like.

I wouldn't be alive without it.

I can't get through the day without it.

It is the most important thing in my life.

I don't want to work I just want to meditate.

Meditation is the answer to everything.

She admits to being addicted to it and I have witnessed the 
increased stress levels and nervousness if she doesn't have 
her "daily fix". Irratibility, nervousness, short tempered. Almost 
like a drug addict going through withdrawls.

Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once, at Maharishi 
site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car ride home it 
seemed like she was spaced out and everything was ,,,Maharishi 
says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if totally brain washed 
and programmed.

I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former TM teachers, 
governors etc and a couple sites including one posting the results 
of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of long term hard 
core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like the "simple 
relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.

I'm reminded of the drug pusher who offers a kid his 
first "Toke',,,Hey its good for you, it'll chill you out,,,and then 
slowly he sucks you into harder core drugs like the "yogic flying" 
er levitating,,,er hopping.

When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced 
she "levitated" meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor 
upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. One 
things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Funny you should say that,,,(that it might be her supressed thoughts 
too. Because there is this part of me that thinks the very same.

I thought if I through as much unconditional love her way as humanly 
possible I could reach her and I thought I was. She would say things 
like ,,,This is the first time in my life that I have been truly 
happy" when we had done something together. Or we would have a perfect 
weekend together,,,then BAM out of the blue it would be Maharishi this 
and Maharishi that.

It was as if a inner conflict was playing tug of war with her.

I know she had a horrible childhood and turmoil in her early adult 
life led to searching for acceptence and I think she thought she found 
it in this group. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

[Bill (William)Simmons]

 That's ok,,,I am certainly accustomed to defensiveness both passive 
and agressive when speaking about TM with TM'rs



> How can you tell the difference between someone
> who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
> somebody who is so excited by something they've
> just learned they can't stop talking about it?

Personally, when I am excited about something I have experienced I 
speak in terms of "I" and "we" but in the case in point it was 
all "Maharishi,,,Maharishi,,,Maharishi. Indicating an almost absence 
of self awareness and identity. Only Maharishi existed,,,only his 
word, his thoughts, his ideals,,,truely frightening that one person, 
a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest of 
us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us could be looked 
upon as different. 

But then I have walked through the halls of his Center of 
Enlightenment in Huntsville. Dingy, old, smells of mould, paint 
pealing off the walls. Kitchen appliances that look like fire 
hazards. It seemed totally void of life joy or happiness. I felt 
like I was walking through a morgue. No plants, no flowers only 
picture after endless picture of Maharishi himself on the walls.
> 
> Just for the record, the "German study" is a
> complete crock.  If you're interested to know
> more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
> alt.meditation.transcendental for "German study."

Ah yes an impartial government study is a crock. Well I don't think 
the German courts share you view. Can you tell me who set up and who 
sponsored the site you have recommended?
> 
> For that matter, practically everything you'll
> find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
> other.  Not a reliable source of information on
> TM.

I have been to far more sites then Trancenet but thank you for your 
advice.
> 
> Most people just learn TM and go away and
> practice it on their own without going any
> further or becoming involved in the TM
> organization.
> 
> It's also entirely possible to learn the 
> TM-Sidhis and/or become involved with the TM
> organization without getting into a cultlike
> relationship with it.
> 
> Some people seem to need to establish a
> cultlike relationship with the TMO, and
> unfortunately the TMO doesn't do anything
> to discourage that.

Absolutely and I couldn't agree more with these statements. In fact 
I meditate myself,,,regularly. But its not just the cult like 
mentality referring to the TMO it is also the "worshipping" of a 
man, that man being Maharishi. He's just a man who has made billions 
selling a customised version of Hinduism. And there's nothing wrong 
with that. Just be honest and call it what it is. 
 
> > When I first started dating me
> 
> Freudian slip?? 

More like a reality check,,,in the final analysis I was dating 
myself. Her mind was no where to be found, then again neither was 
her heart.

 
> I kind of doubt she believed she was actually
> levitating beyond the "first stage" (hopping)
> of Yogic Flying.

Wanna bet!!!
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Just over two years Peter.

A great woman, I adored her and still do. When she was peaceful she 
was like an angel. But then out of nowhere. Actually it was usually a 
day or two after we had done something really nice together,,,that 
this demon side appearred and all hell would break loose. It was as if 
a part of her couldn't handle being happy she needed to return to 
chaos.

She would reffer to her meditation experiencing as achieving comsic 
orgasms,,,I thought to myself oh great what is this a form of mental 
masterbation.

I actually observed her once while she was meditating. At age 50th in 
my eyes she's the most beautiful woman in the world. But on that 
afternoon while in her trance her face look distorted hagard and old. 
It was almost frightening and it left me wondering just how much joy 
and bliss could she have possibly be feeling.

I've been in emergency services for 30 years Peter and have a great 
deal of patience with people and so I really tried to be patient with 
her but finally and again out of the blue she announced "Maharishi 
says we need to be celibate in order to channel all our energies to 
our higher spiritual intellect." 

That's when I finally had even enough and said something like,,,Oh 
sure Maharishi says everyone should be celibate but himreffering 
to a years ago comment by the beatles calling him a lecherous 
womaniser. I know it was the wrong thing to say and the conversation 
went down hill from there to include He's a liar a cheat and a fraud."
Thought I was going to have to call 911 myself for backup.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Sal,,,I'm quite certain of it. 

I think the meditation is her own personal crutch or a happy pill.

Just pop and hop and she feels better temporarily. But it doesn't 
address the underlying root causes/demons etc. 

But because Maharishi says "just meditate more" and all your 
problems will go away. She appears totally convinced that more money 
on more time and more meditation will bring her the peace she wants.


Ironically I think the path to enlightment is the path in which we 
do away with all our needs. Afterall it is our percieved NEEDS that 
tie us down. And if a person NEEDS a Guru's guidance or meditation 
or anything then it is still a need and still an obstacle to 
enlightment.

So I guess what I'm saying is until one can give up meditation and 
give up Maharishi or anyone else for that matter, How can one reach 
true enlightment.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

[Bill (William)Simmons]

I like your reasoning Sal!!!


ItsasimplerelaxationtechniqueWAS


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> But that's just it--you weren't supposed to have to "believe in" 
> anything when you started TM (as it wasn't a religion--remember?). 
You 
> didn't even need to believe TM worked--all you had to do was 
practice 
> it, 2X/day, believing whatever you wanted about that or anything 
else.
> 
> Sal
> 
> 
> On Aug 12, 2006, at 9:49 AM, authfriend wrote:
> 
> > Do you ever defend things you believe in when others
> > criticize them?  Are you being "defensive" when you do
> > that?
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

[Bill (William)Simmons]

 
> 
> Boy, she must have been very beautiful or had a very charming 
> personality for you to stand her for so long.

Ah she surely was. In my eyes the most beautiful woman in the world. I 
would get occassional glimpses of the free spirit within her. Just 
long nough to keep me coming back for more. 
> 
> How could you put up with all of that?

Love for her spirit and hope she would frre herself from the addiction.
> 
> For the record, very few TMers that I know were like that.

I know,,,I've met several of her TM friends, with few exceptions (like 
any group in life) most were sweet and kind.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Authfriend

[Bill (William)Simmons]

You make some valid points.






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[FairfieldLife] Thank you All

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Thanks everyone who has responded to my posts.

Keep well

in peace
Bill






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

[Bill (William)Simmons]

To clarify, no I am not a TM'r, though God knows I was pressured to 
become one, to the point where she broke it off once simply because 
I wasn't willingly to join.

No I prefer a park setting, sitting at the base of a tree leaning 
against it with my spine.(Crosslegged). Sometimes I'll repeat the 
words "One with All",,,other times I'll just focus on my breath and 
take it all in. 

No secret mantra, no set rituals, I am a free forming kind of person 
who just likes to go with the flow.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > ...and you are, IMHO, an actual practioner of the TM Program 
> > 
> > He never said he practiced TM, Shemp.
> 
> 
> 
> He said he meditated regularly.
> 
> And within the context of the discussion that was going on when he 
> said it, I assumed he meant the TM Program.
> 
> If it isn't TM that he practises, I hope he'll let us know and 
then 
> I'll stand corrected.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Why the need???

[Bill (William)Simmons]

I can't seem to come up with a rational reason to spend a great 
portion of my life in meditation. What gets accomplished? What gets 
created?

I'm not trying to be argumentative here or confrontational, I am 
just trying to understand . My X GF spends two hours a day in 
meditation and has for 25 years. Has no will to work and has made 
this one thing the center point in her life. She is what she calls a 
Sidhi.

She says she transcends and connects to the universal consciousness. 
Cool but why the need to do this  twice a day for your life. 
What's the point. Clearly given the recognition of a higher 
existance (through the acceptance of a higher universal consciounes) 
is it not reasonable to assume that one day we will all leave the 
physical plane a transcend to this higher place as part of the souls 
natural evolution?

So why spend the time we have been given here in a physical form and 
on a physical plane trying to get back to the other side each and 
everydayWhen its time to go home we'll all get to go home.

It seems to me like a person who goes away on a vacation to a far 
off exotic land only to spend every day, twice a day calling home to 
see how things are back there.

Me I am here now in the present and on this plane of existance to 
experience what is here in all its positive and negative aspects. 
Why else would I be here if it wasn't to experience what is here on 
this level of existance.

I am wrong






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Why the need???

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Thank you Rick I appreciate the insights.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/12/06 12:24 PM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I can't seem to come up with a rational reason to spend a great
> > portion of my life in meditation. What gets accomplished? What 
gets
> > created?
> > 
> Self-realization (ideally).
> > 
> > I'm not trying to be argumentative here or confrontational, I am
> > just trying to understand . My X GF spends two hours a day in
> > meditation and has for 25 years.
> > 
> So have I, for 38 years.
> > 
> > Has no will to work
> > 
> Me neither, but that¹s not due to meditation. But I work anyway. 
And
> actually have fun with it most of the time.
> > 
> > She says she transcends and connects to the universal 
consciousness.
> > Cool but why the need to do this  twice a day for your life.
> > What's the point. Clearly given the recognition of a higher
> > existance (through the acceptance of a higher universal 
consciounes)
> > is it not reasonable to assume that one day we will all leave the
> > physical plane a transcend to this higher place as part of the 
souls
> > natural evolution?
> > 
> > So why spend the time we have been given here in a physical form 
and
> > on a physical plane trying to get back to the other side each and
> > everydayWhen its time to go home we'll all get to go home.
> > 
> > It seems to me like a person who goes away on a vacation to a far
> > off exotic land only to spend every day, twice a day calling 
home to
> > see how things are back there.
> > 
> > Me I am here now in the present and on this plane of existance to
> > experience what is here in all its positive and negative aspects.
> > Why else would I be here if it wasn't to experience what is here 
on
> > this level of existance.
> > 
> It¹s natural to want to know and be more. One can explore and 
become
> permanently aware of ³higher² planes of existence without 
forfeiting this
> one. It¹s not ³the other side.² All ³levels² of reality exist 
here, now.
> What you experience in meditation is not necessarily what you 
experience
> after you die.
> > 
> > I am wrong
> 
> The point of meditation is to realize that ³higher consciousness² 
not merely
> in meditation, but all the time. This is tremendously enriching to 
life in
> many ways. This realization has dawned in many who have been 
meditating a
> long time, and in some who haven¹t been doing it that long.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Why the need???

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Thank you gerbal88

She often said to me,,,"Why are you with me, I have nothing to offer.

I always found that to be a very said reflection of ones self worth. 
And yet she claims to be on such a high spiritual path. She feels 
she is superior spiritually because she is a TM'er.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > I can't seem to come up with a rational reason to spend a great 
> > portion of my life in meditation. What gets accomplished? What 
gets 
> > created?
> > 
> > I'm not trying to be argumentative here or confrontational, I am 
> > just trying to understand . My X GF spends two hours a day in 
> > meditation and has for 25 years. Has no will to work and has 
made 
> > this one thing the center point in her life. She is what she 
calls 
> a 
> > Sidhi.
> > 
> > She says she transcends and connects to the universal 
> consciousness. 
> > Cool but why the need to do this  twice a day for your life. 
> > What's the point. Clearly given the recognition of a higher 
> > existance (through the acceptance of a higher universal 
> consciounes) 
> > is it not reasonable to assume that one day we will all leave 
the 
> > physical plane a transcend to this higher place as part of the 
> souls 
> > natural evolution?
> > 
> > So why spend the time we have been given here in a physical form 
> and 
> > on a physical plane trying to get back to the other side each 
and 
> > everydayWhen its time to go home we'll all get to go home.
> > 
> > It seems to me like a person who goes away on a vacation to a 
far 
> > off exotic land only to spend every day, twice a day calling 
home 
> to 
> > see how things are back there.
> > 
> > Me I am here now in the present and on this plane of existance 
to 
> > experience what is here in all its positive and negative 
aspects. 
> > Why else would I be here if it wasn't to experience what is here 
on 
> > this level of existance.
> > 
> > I am wrong
> 
> Hi, Bill -- I don't think you are wrong. Even Mahesh, in the early 
> days, said the whole purpose of his meditation was so that we 
could 
> enjoy life. He went so far as to say that we judge the benefit of 
our 
> meditation by how well things go in daily activity [a bit of a 
> paraphrase, but accurate nonetheless].
> 
> So I wonder what form of meditation your X GF is doing.
> 
> When Mahesh realized that he was basically a nobody whom the 
Beatles 
> ditched, he got rather more aggressive and began to churn out more 
> and more to do (i.e., more and more for the punters to buy to 
enrich 
> himself). He got rich and more and more people noticed that the 
more 
> and more they had bought was making them more and more exhausted.
> 
> The mind, proclaimed Mahesh cunningly, goes in the direction of 
more 
> and more. Greed sells. Any salesman knows this. Something for 
nothing 
> is a hot item, no matter what it costs.
> 
> The purpose of meditation? Well, like Mahesh said: to enrich your 
> daily activity. If it isn't enriching life, why are you doing it?
> 
> Monks, nuns, recluse types do spend great portions of their life 
in 
> deep meditation. But they also don't engage in daily activity as 
> ordinary folk do. -- Mahesh used to make a big deal of recluse 
> mantras and householder mantras. But that's just a diversion from 
the 
> real effects of his meditation-method. His meditation-
> method/householder mantras turned a lot of folks into recluses and 
> I'm not sure this is good. Maybe it kept them hooked on his every 
new 
> greatest sure thing, I don't know. 
> 
> But you raise all the right questions. There are good meditation 
> practises that really do enrich daily life. From my experience, 
> however, I doubt very seriously that Mahesh's TM is one of them.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Not yet but time will tell!!!


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> --snip--
>  BTW, TM can *appear* to be 
> > addicting, but the dynamics don't quite fit in my experience. 
> 
> Most non-recovering addicts of any thing will say the same thing you 
> have said above. On a lighter (?), note do you experience your 
> participation in FFL as being an addiction?
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

[Bill (William)Simmons]

saraig

actually she has just started a bible reading group and sins and 
sinners was becoming the flavour of the day just prior to breaking 
up.

But I cannot see this woman ever giving up on TM. 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  
wrote:
> >
> > Bill, I'd say you're lucky the relationship is over--chalk it up 
to a 
> > learning experience.
> > 
> > Many of us felt that way at some point (not the extreme anger 
part, but 
> > definitely the "protective of all things having to do with MMY" 
part.  
> > She'll move on too, I predict, when she realizes the TMO no 
longer fits 
> > her fantasies. Doesn't mean she'll give up all things TM, just 
that the 
> > illusion stage will be over.
> > 
> 
> So it's all the TMO's fault? She's not living at Fairfield, so 
obviously she isn't as hardcore as 
> she likes to think. This is an internal problem she's projecting 
onto TM and the TMO. She may 
> outgrow it and continue TM or move on, OR she may suddenly 
discover that TM is horrible 
> and bad and find something new to obsess about and declare that 
all her time with TM was a 
> complete waste while her NEW guru/organization is the best thing 
in the world, etc.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: "The Maharishi Effect'- How it works...'

[Bill (William)Simmons]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Maharishi Maheshi Yogi's life work;
>   Has culminated in this theory,
>   It's called 'The Maharishi Effect'.
>   It says;
>   That TM meditators, have an effect;
>   When in transendental deep meditation-
>That effects the rest of the population;
>   (Yes, I know this sounds absurd)


Robert, interesting theories and given that these theories are the 
culmination of MMY's life work.  Is it safe to say Fairfield itself 
being the home of the TM movement, the univeristy and so many Tm 
meditators is a community in a state of bliss. Does Fairfield enjoy a 
0% crime rate. 0 % domestic disputes and a 0% incidence of the 
various other types of social problems that plague other communities 
with a fraction of the population of meditators.

Yes Robert to use your own words this does sound absurd.

If MMY can bring peace to a community with (I think I saw a claim of 
1% of the population meditating). Then given Fairfields pop. of a 
mere 10,000 people there must be zero reportable incidences in your 
community with such a large population of TM meditators,,,how could 
it possibly be anything but,,,it is afterall a culmination of MMY's 
life work. 

Does Fairfield have a zero percent crime rate,,,oh hell lets just say 
a zero percent VIOLENT crime rate??? 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: "The Maharishi Effect'- How it works...'

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Thank you Curtisdeltablues your response it mirrors my thoughts on 
what I am certain is a nice community (Fairfield). One that is no 
better but no worse then other communities with far less 
folks "flying' for a better world.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Like many aspects of the TM movement beliefs, the 1% claims are
> carefully worded so they are un-falsifiable.  This is a common trick
> with groups making absurd claims.  Because they are choosing what to
> pay attention to in huge amounts of sociological data, they can make
> it seem like either "something good is happening" or "something is
> purifying in the environment".  On a smaller scale this is played 
out
> with the claim that TM makes you feel better in every way, unless it
> doesn't, which is termed unstressing.  They are only fooling
> themselves with this transparent tactic.
> 
> Fairfield people are nice, ordinary folks with all the same social
> problems common to their age demographic.  Nothing special after
> decades of devotion to this practice.  The same mix of idiots and
> geniuses you find everywhere else.  They aren't better in any way, 
but
> I don't think they are worse either.  Just an odd belief system in a
> group of mostly optimistic people.  I think you would have to look
> long and hard to find another one as whacked as your ex seemed to 
be. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons"
>  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Maharishi Maheshi Yogi's life work;
> > >   Has culminated in this theory,
> > >   It's called 'The Maharishi Effect'.
> > >   It says;
> > >   That TM meditators, have an effect;
> > >   When in transendental deep meditation-
> > >That effects the rest of the population;
> > >   (Yes, I know this sounds absurd)
> > 
> > 
> > Robert, interesting theories and given that these theories are 
the 
> > culmination of MMY's life work.  Is it safe to say Fairfield 
itself 
> > being the home of the TM movement, the univeristy and so many Tm 
> > meditators is a community in a state of bliss. Does Fairfield 
enjoy a 
> > 0% crime rate. 0 % domestic disputes and a 0% incidence of the 
> > various other types of social problems that plague other 
communities 
> > with a fraction of the population of meditators.
> > 
> > Yes Robert to use your own words this does sound absurd.
> > 
> > If MMY can bring peace to a community with (I think I saw a claim 
of 
> > 1% of the population meditating). Then given Fairfields pop. of a 
> > mere 10,000 people there must be zero reportable incidences in 
your 
> > community with such a large population of TM meditators,,,how 
could 
> > it possibly be anything but,,,it is afterall a culmination of 
MMY's 
> > life work. 
> > 
> > Does Fairfield have a zero percent crime rate,,,oh hell lets just 
say 
> > a zero percent VIOLENT crime rate???
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] From a MUM web page

[Bill (William)Simmons]

I cut and pasted this claim from a MUM web page claiming that  Where 
as little as 1% of population is practising TM "the trend of rising 
crime rates is REVERSED. 



This is the actual cut and paste.

We can split hairs all we won't on actual wording but given this 
claim by the University the "spirit" of the message would suggest 
that the town of Fairfield should be enjoying a crime rate far below 
the national average...

In 1975, Maharishi inaugurated the dawn of a new era, proclaiming 
that 'through the window of science we see the dawn of the Age of 
Enlightenment'. 

Scientific research found that in cities and towns all over the world 
where as little as one per cent of the population practises the 
Transcendental Meditation Technique, the trend of rising crime rate 
is reversed, indicating increasing order and harmony. Research 
scientists named this phenomenon of rising coherence in the 
collective consciousness of the whole society the Maharishi Effect, 
because this was the realization of Maharishi's promise to society 
made in the very early days of Maharishi's Movement (started in 
Madras, India in 1957).

The Maharishi Effect establishes the principle that individual 
consciousness affects collective consciousness. Nearly 50 scientific 
research studies conducted over the past 25 years verify the unique 
effect and wide-ranging benefits to the nation produced by the 
Maharishi Effect. These studies have used the most rigorous research 
methods and evaluation procedures available in the social sciences, 
including time series analysis, which controls for weekly and 
seasonal cycles or trends in social data. (Refer to: Scientific 
Research on Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation Programme—Collected 
Papers 98, 166, 317-320, 331, and 402.)

Research shows that the influence of coherence created by the 
Maharishi Effect can be measured on both national and international 
levels. Increased coherence within the nation expresses itself in 
improved national harmony and well-being. In addition, this internal 
coherence and harmony generates an influence that extends beyond the 
nation's borders, expressing itself in improved international 
relations and reduced international conflicts.
 

 

In 1976, with the introduction of the more advanced TM-Sidhi 
Programme including Yogic Flying, a more powerful effect of coherence 
in collective consciousness was expected. The first major test of 
this prediction took place in 1978 during Maharishi's Global Ideal 
Society Campaign in 108 countries: crime rate was reduced everywhere. 
(Refer to: Scientific Research on Maharishi's Transcendental 
Meditation Programme—Collected Papers 321-323, 325-330, 332-335, and 
401-410.)

This global research demonstrated a new formula: the square root of 
one per cent of a population practising Transcendental Meditation and 
the TM-Sidhi Programme, morning and evening together in one place, is 
sufficient to neutralize negative tendencies and promote positive 
trends throughout the whole population.
 

 

Research has shown that groups of individuals practising Yogic Flying—
all enjoying very high brainwave coherence—create coherence in 
collective consciousness, and generate a unifying and integrating 
effect in the life of society. This results in a decrease of negative 
trends throughout society—such as crime, accidents, and sickness —and 
an increase in positive social, economic, and political trends. 
Scientific studies on this phenomenon have demonstrated that a group 
of at least 7,000 individuals practising Yogic Flying can produce 
this coherence-creating effect on a global scale, reducing violent 
and negative trends worldwide.

Research studies have repeatedly confirmed the Maharishi Effect on a 
global scale. For example, during assemblies of ten days to three 
weeks in which the number of individuals practising the TM-Sidhi 
Programme of Yogic Flying approached or exceeded the square root of 
one per cent of the world's population—about 7,000 people—global 
social trends improved immediately, including improved international 
relations as measured by reduced international conflict and reduced 
incidence of terrorism. (Refer to: Scientific Research on Maharishi's 
Transcendental Meditation Programme—Collected Papers 335-337, 410, 
and 411.) 

The secret of the Global Maharishi Effect is the phenomenon known to 
Physics as the 'Field Effect', the effect of coherence and positivity 
produced from the field of infinite correlation—the self-referral 
field of least excitation of consciousness—the field of 
Transcendental Consciousness, which is basic to creation and 
permeates all life everywhere.

Through the Maharishi Effect, Extended Maharishi Effect, and Global 
Maharishi Effect, with positive trends and harmony rising in 
individual and national life, the problems of the nation will 
disappear, as darkness disappears with the onset of light.
 

 

EEG Research Locates the Seat of the Maharishi Effect in the

[FairfieldLife] Coherence/Synergy/Team Spirit

[Bill (William)Simmons]

I've heard this term thrown around alot. Coherence is something I think 
is naturally attainable without TM and certainly not something that was 
discovered or created by Maharishi. Another word for it is simple team 
spirit. Look what happens at many major league sporting events. 

The crowd begins to cheer the home team,,,perhaps a "wave" starts in 
the stands. The enthusiams generate a sense of or perhaps a real 
positive energy and the home team scores.  Maharishi Effect,,, hardly, 
just a lot of excited sports fans cheering on the home team.











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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Of course the larger the number the better in studies worth any 
serious consideration.

However,

Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the length 
of time factor of the study group.

1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's introduction into 
the community and should be verifable through past 
public/police/court records.

2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the community.

3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be 
tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators.

To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a steadily 
increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% cl;aimed 
necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a reduction 
in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is disproved.

Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If 
not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in 
Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how many 
reported offenses occured say last year?  The trends should point to 
a declining crime rate given the significant number of meditators in 
the community.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
 wrote:
> >
> > I cut and pasted this claim from a MUM web page claiming that  
Where 
> > as little as 1% of population is practising TM "the trend of 
rising 
> > crime rates is REVERSED. 
> >
> 
> Think it through carefully. It is entirely possible that the ME 
doesn't work. On the other 
> hand, statistical analysis  require LARGE groups of test subjects. 
For something like the 
> ME, the group required to notice the effect reliably might 
conceivably be much larger than 
> Fairfield itself. Consider the Taste of Untopia course. The effect 
on Fairfield would be large 
> just because everyone is there, but the effect of several people 
running stop signs in a 
> hurry to get to the Domes for group practice would be many times 
larger than, say, a 10% 
> reduction in traffic violations by the local non-meditating 
population.
> 
> Likewise, the Maharishi Effect WITHIN a group of sidhas might also 
be large, but the 
> redution in crime rate affecting the group itself would be 
overwhelmed by the presence of 
> a single sidha who happened to be a pickpocket (this happened 
during a course in DC--
> don't know if the person was a sidha or just wandered in off the 
street but the police were 
> called because of an incident--either way, a single individual's  
behavior in a group of 
> 10,000 can skew the ressults in ways that don't happen when you 
look at the changes in 
> behavior in a group of one million or 10 million or a billion, even 
if the effect is far, far 
> smaller than in the group of sidhas allegedly having the effect).
> 
> If you want a truely silly example, that really happened, consider 
the ME and its affect on 
> sewage problem. Nothing in the theory says much about such a 
measure, but in fact, the 
> immeditate effect of the ME in Fairfield was todestroy the town's 
sewage system. 8000 
> people in a town of 8000 getting up at the same time, using the 
bathroom at the same 
> time, and flushing at the same time, explodes sewers. It's all the 
faultof the ME.
> Statisticians call it the "Law of Large Numbers" --things behave 
differently when you look 
> at small populations and large populations.
> 
> Again, this doesn't say anything about whether or not the ME 
exists, but it DOES explain 
> why you can't disprove the ME by looking at the local effects in 
Fairfield.
> 
> It also explains why much of the research on the local effects in 
fairfield is just pure 
> marketing. Fairfield is a lousy place to conduct ME studies, and 
deep down inside, the TM 
> researchers know this. You can't prove the ME or even offer 
reliable support for the ME, by 
> looking at local statistics, but it DOES make for nice woo-woo feel 
good reports when 
> things get better in Fairfield during a big course.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig

[Bill (William)Simmons]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> For whatever it is worth:
> 
> 
http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/SocietalEffects/FairfieldCrime/index.
cfm
>

Heyit was certainly worth a laugh.

astillchucklinwas






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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig

[Bill (William)Simmons]

I can't help but wonder,,,When does aggressive marketing and 
cavalier scientific study practises cross the line and become an 
active attempt to de-fraud and thus become a crimminal activitiy on 
an "organised level'.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "They don't do
> this because the purpose of the the ME is political,
> not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit
> of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all
> MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's
> stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific
> reasons."
> 
> 
> Nicely stated.  Other spiritual groups just state their beliefs 
and if
> you want to join you know what you are getting into.  Religions
> operate this way also and it has a certain integrity.  TM's
> presentation has always had a slippery element.
> Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his
> downfall.  I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy of
> consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be 
anything
> else.  I don't always share the perspective, but I know where you
> stand and I can learn a different view.  It has integrity.  TM's
> presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up 
being a
> pseudo materialistic spirituality.  I think low movement numbers
> reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is.  The pompous 
and
> ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of identity
> integrity.  Rich guys in gold party hats.  Visual poetic justice!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  
wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- "Bill (William)Simmons" 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Of course the larger the number the better in
> > > studies worth any 
> > > serious consideration.
> > > 
> > > However,
> > > 
> > > Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study.
> > > Because of the length 
> > > of time factor of the study group.
> > > 
> > > 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's
> > > introduction into 
> > > the community and should be verifable through past 
> > > public/police/court records.
> > > 
> > > 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization
> > > to the community.
> > > 
> > > 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime
> > > rate could be 
> > > tracted along with the steady growth of practising
> > > meditators.
> > > 
> > > To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations
> > > by a steadily 
> > > increasing population of meditators (far exceeding
> > > the 1% cl;aimed 
> > > necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result
> > > in a reduction 
> > > in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory
> > > is disproved.
> > > 
> > > Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a
> > > study. If 
> > > not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were
> > > reported in 
> > > Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in
> > > Fairfield and how many 
> > > reported offenses occured say last year?  The trends
> > > should point to 
> > > a declining crime rate given the significant number
> > > of meditators in 
> > > the community.
> > 
> > Based on the theory of the ME you are absolutely
> > correct. If the TMO/MUM was serious about
> > understanding the field effects of consciousness they
> > would have to understand why the ME does not appear to
> > work in Fairfield and expand the ME theory to
> > integrate this apparent contradiction. They don't do
> > this because the purpose of the the ME is political,
> > not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit
> > of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all
> > MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's
> > stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific
> > reasons.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: DOJ's Flawed Analysis of Sustained ME Effect on Crime Trends in FF

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Excellent post "new morning"very thought provoking.

Bill

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study. Because of the 
length 
> > > of time factor of the study group.
> > > 
> > > 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's 
introduction into 
> > > the community and should be verifable through past 
> > > public/police/court records.
> > > 
> > > 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization to the 
community.
> > > 
> > > 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime rate could be 
> > > tracted along with the steady growth of practising meditators.
> > > 
> > > To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations by a 
steadily 
> > > increasing population of meditators (far exceeding the 1% 
cl;aimed 
> > > necessary to reverse rising crime rates) must result in a 
reduction 
> > > in Fairfield's crime rates or the whole ME therory is 
disproved.
> > > 
> > > Has Fairfield itself ever been the subject of such a study. If 
> > > not,,,why not!!! How many crimminal offenses were reported in 
> > > Fairfield in the year TM meditators began in Fairfield and how 
many 
> > > reported offenses occured say last year?  The trends should 
point to 
> > > a declining crime rate given the significant number of 
meditators in 
> > > the community.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > For whatever it is worth:
> > 
> >
> 
http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/SocietalEffects/FairfieldCrime/inde
x.cfm
> >
> 
> I read DOJ's analysis. Its distrurbing that it is so shallow and 
has
> so many unaddressed (or only partially addressed) questionable
> metheodological issues.
> 
> Following is a quick list of five major obvious flaws -- there are
> probably more:
> 
> 
> 1) Base Year.
> DOJ notes 74 as the year of the great migration (my term) to FF. 
And
> uses 1973, and prior, as the base year(s) to compare the efffect 
of TM
> etc on crime. 
> 
> The move occurred in middish Sept 1974. I was there. There was a 
lot
> of chaos the first several weeks as things were unpacked, people 
moved
> in, the place was cleaned, etc.,what I term  "chaos effects" At a
> minimum, starting in October -- probably later to give  chaos 
effects
> a chance to settle down, gives 1/4 of a year for TM effects. The 
other
> 3/4s of the year were Pre-TM, same old unmitigated crime rate. 
> 
> So in 1975, we would expect to see 4x the effect of 1974 due to 
any ME
> effect.  The effect in 1975(and 76-77): no noticable change in 
violent
> crimes, and only a small decrease in property crimes. But property
> crimes was in a strong downward trend since 1970 through 1976. In
> 77-79, in the period when YF began, and the number of meditators 
and
> sidhas increased dramatically (as i recall -- anyone have data?),
> DOJ's property crime index 
> actually increases, about 30% (visually).
> 
> Is it reasonable to attribute this to 1/4 year of 600 or so 20 min 
2x
> TMers (no YF, no long rounding in that period)? And during a period
> that was quite more relaxed than today with regards to many, what I
> will term "satva factors" -- factors which the TMO apparently 
links to
> purity/satva/being on the program: staying up late, unmarried
> cohabitation on campus, lots of guys leaving womens dorms very 
late at
> night or early in the morning, inorganic food, non SV buildings, 
old
> Parsons vibes yet to be purified, some meat eating, etc.
> 
> 
> Parsons Effects
> Could other factors explain the very sharp decrease (around 80%+
> decrease) in violent crime in 1974? Lets look at Parsons College 
which
> used the facilities until it formally closed in June 1973. See end 
of
> post for details on Parsons.
> 
> Given that there were probably 3-5000+ Parsons students at its 
peak,
> plus faculty, administration and staff, probabably  didn't all 
leave
> town immediately. Its reasonable to assume that some lingered on
> through the end of 1973, figuring out what to do next, since no 
other
> colleges would apparently take them. However that essentially most
> were gone by early 1974 is also a resonable assumption. And lets
> assume the "flocking" -- "students from other communities would 
flock
> to Fairfield to sample the atmosphere" stopped completely in 1973. 
> 
> These two factors cou

[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, Sal

[Bill (William)Simmons]

h, someone just emailed me personal and asked if I was 
barry,,,who's Barry,,,I'm Bill.

noBarryhereBill

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Is Barry now writing under Curtis's account?  Man, that guy is 
crafty, 
> what will he think of next.
> 
> Sal
> 
> 
> On Aug 14, 2006, at 11:39 AM, authfriend wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Sigh. The ME is used to explain why MMY isn't trying to get 
massive
> >> numbers of people to learn TM, and the Raja thing certainly 
turns
> >> people off and MMY knows this.
> >>
> >> I find it amazing how people will twist reality to fit their 
need to
> >> find flaws.
> >>
> >> He isn't even accomplishing the ME numbers is he?
> >
> > Non sequitur.
> >
> > It's Barry's trick again, conflating "Maharishi sez"
> > with "What Maharishi sez is true."
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig

[Bill (William)Simmons]

no worries gerbal,,,I liked the post.

Iffen my Hindu readings recall.

The guru shall not ask for anything.
The student shall offer everything.

>From the various articles I've read MMY is constantly asking for 
money,,,from governements, organisations and individuals. Hell the 
fact that there is a set cost for the meditations techniques proves 
that.

I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of money 
for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,"damnable hell" comes to mind.


Perhaps MMY played "hooky" from class the day this philosophy was 
taught.



The s--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > I can't help but wonder,,,When does aggressive marketing and 
> > cavalier scientific study practises cross the line and become an 
> > active attempt to de-fraud and thus become a crimminal activitiy 
on 
> > an "organised level'.
> 
> Oh, Bill, it never crosses the line! Like Mahesh quipped one day 
in 
> Seelisberg when he was wanting to do something iffy and was told 
so: 
> The Lawyers will make it legal!
> 
> You can't defraud the faithful if they are willingly giving you 
> everything they've got. You can't help it if they are so dazed 
from 
> all the meditation and other crap you've sold them that they can't 
> think straight.
> 
> I hope you see the point of my sarcasm,it certainly isn't aimed at 
> you.
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > "They don't do
> > > this because the purpose of the the ME is political,
> > > not scientific. It is bandied about not in the spirit
> > > of understanding, but solely to promote TM. That's all
> > > MMY wanted to use it for, which is fine, but let's
> > > stop pretending we're interested in it for scientific
> > > reasons."
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Nicely stated.  Other spiritual groups just state their 
beliefs 
> > and if
> > > you want to join you know what you are getting into.  Religions
> > > operate this way also and it has a certain integrity.  TM's
> > > presentation has always had a slippery element.
> > > Maybe MMY's desire to have a huge mainstream movement was his
> > > downfall.  I notice in your posts, Peter, a spiritual primacy 
of
> > > consciousness over matter perspective that doesn't try to be 
> > anything
> > > else.  I don't always share the perspective, but I know where 
you
> > > stand and I can learn a different view.  It has integrity.  
TM's
> > > presentation tried to be everything to everybody and ended up 
> > being a
> > > pseudo materialistic spirituality.  I think low movement 
numbers
> > > reflect this lack of the movement knowing what it is.  The 
> pompous 
> > and
> > > ridiculous Rajas are the perfect symbol of this lack of 
identity
> > > integrity.  Rich guys in gold party hats.  Visual poetic 
justice!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- "Bill (William)Simmons" 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Of course the larger the number the better in
> > > > > studies worth any 
> > > > > serious consideration.
> > > > > 
> > > > > However,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Fairfield itself offers an amazing case study.
> > > > > Because of the length 
> > > > > of time factor of the study group.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. There would have been a crime rate prior to TM's
> > > > > introduction into 
> > > > > the community and should be verifable through past 
> > > > > public/police/court records.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2. Then the introduction of TM and its organization
> > > > > to the community.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3. And a 30 year study period in which the crime
> > > > > rate could be 
> > > > > tracted along with the steady growth of practising
> > > > > meditators.
> > > > > 
> > > > > To my way of thinking. Thirty years of meditations
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, Sal

[Bill (William)Simmons]

Thanks RickI don't imagine I'll be here long. Jist visitin fer a 
spell.

Billybobwas

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/14/06 1:19 PM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > h, someone just emailed me personal and asked if I was
> > barry,,,who's Barry,,,I'm Bill.
> > 
> Barry is someone who posted here frequently but recently decided to 
take a
> breather.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig

[Bill (William)Simmons]

He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from what I can 
see. 

But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the Universal 
consciousness needs with earthly real estate.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > no worries gerbal,,,I liked the post.
> > 
> > Iffen my Hindu readings recall.
> > 
> > The guru shall not ask for anything.
> > The student shall offer everything.
> > 
> > From the various articles I've read MMY is constantly asking for 
> > money,,,from governements, organisations and individuals. Hell 
the 
> > fact that there is a set cost for the meditations techniques 
proves 
> > that.
> 
> Just for the record, MMY isn't a really a guru in
> the traditional sense.
> 
> > I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of 
money 
> > for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,"damnable hell" comes to 
mind.
> 
> And how many centuries ago was this "law" handed down,
> do you know?  Was it addressing the situation of
> teachers who headed a mass movement to instruct many
> millions of people around the world?
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend

[Bill (William)Simmons]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from what I 
> > can see. 
> > 
> > But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the 
Universal 
> > consciousness needs with earthly real estate.
> 
> Neither can I.  Do you think that's a relevant
> issue?



What "I" think really doesn't matter on the universal scale of 
things. Afterall who am I? 

Nor do the "unassailable fininacial foundations" found on  a limited 
physical plane in an infinite universe.



> 
> Or might it have more to do with wanting the TMO
> to have an unassailable financial foundation so
> it's not dependent on economic conditions?
> 
> Oh, you didn't answer my question:


As for the linear time issue of when these rules were written. Who 
knows,,,who should care, the issue is truth and truth is timeless. 

IamwhoIam
 
>  
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
> > >  wrote:
> 
> > > > I am pretty certain Hindu law itself forbids the charging of 
> > > > money for spiritual teachings. Words like,,,"damnable hell" 
> > > > comes to mind.
> > > 
> > > And how many centuries ago was this "law" handed down,
> > > do you know?  Was it addressing the situation of
> > > teachers who headed a mass movement to instruct many
> > > millions of people around the world?
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig

[Bill (William)Simmons]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
>  wrote:
> >
> 
> > Perhaps MMY played "hooky" from class the day this philosophy 
was 
> > taught.
> 
> Heavens, no. He wanted to know everything there was to know. Like 
the 
> TM Nazi, you can't bend the rules in your favour unless you know 
what 
> they are. Then you can bend them to glorify yourself and show 
others 
> what fools they are.

Gerbal I stand corrected, thank you I think you are right.

> 
> "The Lawyers will make it Legal." 
> "We'll use Science to prove it."
> "Just give them some nice candies and they'll be fine."
> "The Actor can play god better than god."

Well said,,,very well said.
Bill
> 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend

[Bill (William)Simmons]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
>  wrote:
> 
>> For some reason, Bill, you reminded me of another wonderful 
Maheshism. 
> Someone asked him about prayer. He quipped "you don't apply to the 
> World Bank for $2.00"
> 
> Well, here's the little guy, giggling at his own jokes, convincing 
> others that they are going to reach cosmic consciousness and he 
makes 
> a crack like that. 
> 
> Tells me there's something stinky in Vlodrop.

He does strike me as a bit of a "stinker".  Ah more power to him i 
suppose,,,I should have his money.


>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: From a MUM web page,,sparaig, authfriend

[Bill (William)Simmons]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bill (William)Simmons" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > He is a brillant business man and real estate magnet from 
what 
> > > > I can see. 
> > > > 
> > > > But then I can't for the life of me figure out what the 
> > > > Universal consciousness needs with earthly real estate.
> > > 
> > > Neither can I.  Do you think that's a relevant
> > > issue?
> > 
> > What "I" think really doesn't matter on the universal scale of 
> > things. Afterall who am I? 
> 
> Sidestep.  You raised the question.
> 
> > Nor do the "unassailable fininacial foundations" found on  a 
> > limited physical plane in an infinite universe.
> 
> Do they matter on the limited physical plane, you
> know, the one we happen to be living in?
> 
> > > Or might it have more to do with wanting the TMO
> > > to have an unassailable financial foundation so
> > > it's not dependent on economic conditions?
> > > 
> > > Oh, you didn't answer my question:
> > 
> > As for the linear time issue of when these rules were written. 
Who 
> > knows,,,who should care, the issue is truth and truth is 
timeless. 
> 
> Sidestep.  How do you know these rules represent
> Timeless Truth in an infinite universe, as opposed
> to time-bound rules for a limited physical plane?
> 
> How come an unassailable financial foundation doesn't
> matter, but written-down rules are crucially important?
> 
> With all this sidestepping, I have to assume you
> took my points but are reluctant to say so.
>

Assume what you will,,,you will anyway,,, I'll assume.





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