[FairfieldLife] Re: Another woman comes forward
To the writer of this letter. I was really touched in reading your and feel how difficult this must be for you. It must have been hard to write this and I hope it brought some relief. Hopefully it will lead to healing around this experience. I wanted to share a quote that I've always found so useful. I first heard it at a seminar on grief (from the Good Grief program). "If it's unmentionable, it's unmanageable." I wish you well.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the Clintons
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander > wrote: Doesn't matter where it comes from. The only question is whether it's factual. > > You're aware this stuff all emanates from the right > wing, are you not, Angela? >
[FairfieldLife] Stephen Whittle etchings online
For those of you who knew Stephen Whittle or might be interested in a beautiful selection of etchings, a new website has been launched by his widow, Philippa. http://www.whittleetchings.com/
[FairfieldLife] This sums it up for me on Hillary.
I keep wondering how some intelligent people I know can still be supporting Hillary. I'd been coming to the conclusion that people see what they want to see, believe what they want to believe... I decided that probably those who still strongly support her simply can't see what I see. Now I know that all of us perceive things according to our conditioning and that includes me. I know I have my tendencies to see and believe what I want to, although with some maturing those tendencies are being eroded. Nevertheless, Hillary's behavior has been so over the top that it's hard to miss the many red flags about her ethics, character, and psychological makeup. This thoughtful analysis from the Wall Street Journal sums it up for me -- and I'm quoting a paragraph here which is near the end and is hysterically funny. http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html (sorry, don't know how to make this a link...) "What struck me as the best commentary on the Bosnia story came from a poster called GI Joe who wrote in to a news blog: "Actually Mrs. Clinton was too modest. I was there and saw it all. When Mrs. Clinton got off the plane the tarmac came under mortar and machine gun fire. I was blown off my tank and exposed to enemy fire. Mrs. Clinton without regard to her own safety dragged me to safety, jumped on the tank and opened fire, killing 50 of the enemy." Soon a suicide bomber appeared, but Mrs. Clinton stopped the guards from opening fire. "She talked to the man in his own language and got him [to] surrender. She found that he had suffered terribly as a result of policies of George Bush. She defused the bomb vest herself." Then she turned to his wounds. "She stopped my bleeding and saved my life. Chelsea donated the blood." Made me laugh. It was like the voice of the people answering back. This guy knows that what Mrs. Clinton said is sort of crazy. He seems to know her reputation for untruths. He seemed to be saying, "I get it." "
[FairfieldLife] Re: Zbigniew Brzezinski predictions on Iraq & views on 2008 Candidates
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > [video starts after brief ad]: > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23726367#23726367 > Great video -- right on the mark! Do you know when the interview occurred or when this was first aired? Thanks.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Will the Spirit of MMY Descend on the Rajahs of TMO?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My guess is there will be a resurgence for some teachers and some will drift away. Chances are there will be some divisions as no one will be recognized as the sole, supreme keeper of truth. I imagine the movement won't end, certainly not completely until all the TBs are gone, and then chances are there will be some vestige of the movement carrying on much as there is with Yogananda and others. Some small movement going on. As for MMY's spirit descending on the Rajahs, sounds like the Holy Spirit and the disciples. I imagine some will feel that some such phenomenon has taken place, or already has. What do you think, John? > To All: > > This time period after the death of MMY leaves the TMO in a situation > of mourning and doubt. As in the other religions or movements, there > appears to be time of resurgence of their teachers objectives after a > some time (after 40 days perhaps of MMY's death). Will there be a > resurgence of TMO? Division among the disciples of MMY? Or, at worst, > signs of the end of the movement? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Unity Consciousness?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I didn't say it was of no value. I said I don't see > why the state is "higher." If I experience two > radically different states of consciousness at will, > then why would I call one higher than the other? They > are different. They each have their points. The fact > that there are different states and that I can > experience them tells me that there must be a deeper > reality than any of them. It's interesting that you say "The fact that there are different states and that I can experience them tells me that there must be a deeper reality than any of them." At a certain point, I became disillusioned with "states of consciousness" because a state comes and goes. For the longest time, I lived for states of consciousness that I not only enjoyed but that I thought (thanks to MMY) were "higher" and therefore an indication that I was making progress or maybe was even a "better" person because of them. There's the idea in MMY's description, as least how I understand it, that a state can become permanent -- such as permanent unity consciousness. But that just doesn't make any sense to me. All of his descriptions seem to be about an experiencer experiencing things in a certain way. What about the disappearance of a separate experiencer? Although you can define unity consciousness as the disappearance of the separate experiencer, MMY's description always seemed worded in such a way as to indicate that there was someone (some one) there having the experience. An experience always comes and goes. I would thing the "deeper reality than any of them" is independent of the sense of a separate me having the experience. I know what I'm saying will be subject to all sorts of interpretations. I think the event in consciousness that I'm interested in can't be described neatly. One thing with MMY's "knowledge" is that it has neat, clear descriptions. I've had experiences which fit all these descriptions, but again they were only experiences. An experience can be described. Those I consider wise are clear that Reality can only be alluded to. When I was a TBer, I felt I was in the know because I could repeat descriptions. I'd mastered certain words and concepts. Interestingly now, none of those seems to have any value for me anymore. I also thought that I was in the know because I'd experienced the states MMY described, at least I had experiences that seemed to fit his descriptions. (This gets muddy because we have know way of knowing if someone else's experience, or even our own, is correlated with MMY's descriptions.) In any case, while I will sometimes find myself curious about an experience, for the most part I've lost interest in experiences and "states of consciousness". Maybe it's a question of what I value. Maybe it's the loss of an addiction to experience. It's just interesting to find myself in such a different place than I was when I was so caught up in what MMY had to say and in the TMO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "abutilon108" > wrote: > > > I did want to say, however, that the term "group delusion" has > > come up in my mind about the TMO. I don't think it's any > > different, though, than the shared delusions or illusions people > > may have as part of a religion or even a culture. I do think our > > experiences can be colored, or even created, out of a set of > > expectations and desires which are reinforced in a group. > > I think it's interesting that MMY died, and we started > talking about the powerful effect he had on people, > at the same time that a very similar phenomenon seems > to be occurring in the general population with Barack > Obama. > Seems like anytime someone becomes a vortex of influence, they are the focal point of a web created in group consciousness, as it were.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing awake and asleep
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Vaj, I have a question about an experience I have at times during sleep (or is it during waking?). I'm curious how you would interpret it. Usually it happens after I've awakened during the night and don't fall back to sleep. At first, I'm usually wishing I'd go back to sleep (my nice unconscious sleep - as wonderful as all these other alternatives may be, I love that unconsciousness). I may even been mulling over something or feel somewhat agitated, but then I'll drop into a different state. It's very pleasant. It's like a deep meditative state, but different. It's smooth and creamy. On the dark screen of awareness, I'll see shifting patterns of light and form. It's very enjoyable and may continue for some time. With these discussions about sleep experiences, I am now curious about it... Oh yes, I'm never sure if I'm asleep or awake. It feels totally awake, although without engagement in the kind of thinking and focus of attention that occurs during normal waking state. Thoughts don't form all the way, but there's something very clearly aware that all this is going on and I may be asleep or awake. It's a question in a sense, but doesn't form as a waking state question. > The witnessing of waking, sleeping and dreaming parallel the > meditative states of the calm state (no thought, dreamless > witnessing), movement of thought (dream state fabricating itself from > thought forms) and collapse of dream/dreamless back to waking (or the > death of waking into sleep). There are "sandhis" or "gaps" in the > transitions between these and very similar or the same as "dying". The > witnessing in deep sleep is like awareness witnessing a void, although > that dualistic witnessing can be further relaxed and it unifies into a > kind of 'luminous vacuity' where you simply rest, awake, aware. If you > can relax even further, you can see thoughts begin to shatter the > surface of the calm and dreams emerge into existence. If you relax > enough the state of luminous vacuity or clear light, the state of > unification pervades all the states and you watch thoughts emerge, > come and then go. Dreams become very under control--if you want to > meditate for hours, you can--and only a couple of minutes will pass in > "waking time". Some people will use it to gain tomes of knowledge or > simply to get answers to pressing questions or situations. If you are > able to relax enough to actually go through the "death" of falling > asleep and embrace the spheres of dreaming and deep sleep by expanding > beyond them, you remain aware, seamlessly enjoying the whole cycle. > The added advantage is resting in the bliss sheath of deep sleep is > somehow miraculously healing and rejuvenating. You awake as if cleaned > from the inside out, clean and clear. > > And the interesting thing? You know that grogginess of emerging from a > nights sleep? Not only is it totally gone, there's no gap or seam at > all between sleeping and arising. > > Some styles of witness, those associated with the head chakras can be > too "bright" for some people. If they fall into this type of witness, > it can develop into a sleep disturbance as it doesn't keep you wide > awake, but it doesn't let you fall into real deep sleep either. In a > case like that, I just place awareness in the hridayam and gently fall > asleep as I was taught. Not nearly as "bright" and supports deep sleep > easier. Once I get some rejuvenation, then I can raise it to the head > centers again and you can integrate the motion aspect (of thought > energy). The heart center tends to habituate for the calm state and > deep sleep, the head centers for "movement" of thought. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've noticed the same thing whenever I've worked with > the dying. > I've also noticed that sometimes there is amazing > grace and the dying person drops being the person and > becomes radiant loving and light. Have you seen that? > > > My mother was the queen bitch from hell, and caring > for her during her last eight years of life (she was > utterly paralyzed) was maha tapas for me but well > worth it in the end as she dropped her "personhood" > and became pure love. I've seen people die in all kinds of ways, and in some cases there is "amazing grace". As the body is dropping away, sometimes there is a dropping away of the "ego" as well (for want of a better word). So often, there was an atmosphere charged with celestial energy and light, and when I'd be near a dying person it would feel as if I'd entered the most holy place. But not always... The most inspiring thing was that often deeply moving reconciliations would happen among family members, and painful things could finally be resolved. How wonderful to hear about your mother. I nursed my mother through her dying process (she chose to stop eating) and it was one of the most difficult and yet rewarding things I've ever done. There was a lot of surrender happening for her and she was able, after a lifetime of tight self-controls and an inability to depend on others, to give in and be totally cared for.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Witnessing, was: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'm just finding myself more like Curtis these days, > open to *many* different interpretations of experiences > that I once saw only one interpretation of -- the one > I had been taught to consider the only interpretation. > I've also been finding myself open to many possible interpretations of things, and it somehow seems possible to entertain more than one possibility, with each possibility contributing something of value to my understanding.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Yes, I've had two different experiences -- one which I now call "witnessing" and the other which I call "dissociation". I'm trying to come up with how to describe them, partly to answer your question but also to clarify them in my own mind. I don't have time now and have to go offline, but will mull it over and get back on this when I can. > > I've heard that description of witnessing in > the TM context; seems to me it's the same thing > as separation of Self and activity--the small-s > self, the doer in ordinary waking state, being > identified with activity, while the Self just > "witnesses" the doing without identifying with > it. > > That's very different from > > what I am now calling dissociation. > > I assume you've had them both, then, right? Can > you describe the difference between the two? > (Only if you feel like it; I'm just curious.) >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I just don't think that it has all > been figured out hundreds of years ago in traditional religious cultures. I'm wondering how much benefit can actually be derived from tradition? How accurate is anything that is passed down for generations? And besides, why aren't our own discoveries in consciousness just a valid as those made thousands of years ago? I feel ultimately we are our own authority. If we name someone else as our authority, we are still making a judgment that they are "right". We ultimately have only our own perceptions and experiences to rely on. Or so it seems to me, at this moment...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > authfriend wrote, "Could it have been what MMY calls "witnessing," a sense of the separation of the Self and activity? That's *supposed* to be a sign of the beginning of the first stage of enlightenment in MMY's formulation, cosmic consciousness (which is defined as 24-hour- a-day permanent witnessing during waking, dreaming, and deep sleep). He also notes (in his Gita commentary) that it can be a disconcerting, disorienting experience at first if you don't have an intellectual framework for it." Interesting that you ask that. For many years I would have been content to call it "witnessing" and interpreted it as a good thing according to MMY's framework. There is another experience, however, quite different than what I am describing that I would now use the term "witnessing" for. And I have heard others (not TMers) use witnessing for that experience -- it's the experience of the absence of a doer, when for a period only the Witness remains. That's very different from what I am now calling dissociation. For all I know MMY may have used the term witnessing for what I am calling dissociation, and at present I don't find that state to be one that I wish to have grow in my life. I no longer feel that MMY's descriptions of states of consciousness have any value for me. I don't hold MMY up to be an authority on spiritual development -- at least for me. My whole conceptual framework for my spiritual development is so completely different, it's like being in another universe from MMY. I'm not interested in feeling separate from activity in that way. When I stopped meditating regularly, I felt much more fully present to everything I experienced -- the separation disappeared as it were. I felt more integrated with everyone and everything around me, as if a veil had been removed. It could be some shift in me that was simply a coincidence with stopping TM, who knows, but now that I think about it what I had always interpreted as witnessing is not something that I now see as a desirable state.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Curtis said, "At first I sort of resisted using a mantra since I do experience a similar state without one once I close my eyes and let silence dominate my attention." When I close my eyes to meditate, I am never aware of the mantra. I just fall into a "deep" state (interesting to try to describe without using a word like "transcend".) Right now to describe it freshly, I'd say it's as if my attention detaches from thoughts, feelings and so on. I've been trying to investigate what is actually happening, without applying the concepts we got from MMY about what is happening. In any case, I find it very restful and that's the main reason I do it when I do. It has nothing to do with spiritual development for me anymore. As I've explored, sometimes I've consciously introduced the mantra to see what the experience is. It seems like an artificial overlay to inject it. I can easily go to MMY's words, the checking notes,etc. for a movement explanation of that, and explain that the mantra as become very subtle or that I am transcending and the mantra is no longer present. If "transcending" is, in fact, a useful description of what happens, then it could be said that the vehicle of the mantra has been left behind. If that's so, would it even matter which mantra I started out with (last time it was an advanced technique mantra)? I even explored injecting "om" following Rick's posts that he uses om as a mantra. That's been interesting. Seems to produce a quality of light and blissfulness. Sorry if I'm rambling. This has been on my mind of late for some reason. What really is the TM practice?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Curtis, you said "That said, I do feel an increase of slight dissociation (not meant as a pejorative) and I am still evaluating the pros and cons of this alteration. I am not assuming that it is either positive or negative so far, and I suspect that it is a matter of degree." I do hope you'll follow up later on with what you experience. I was feeling some "dissociation" when I was still meditating regularly, and the disappearance of this when I stopped was very welcome. There was a sense of separation that disappeared, and the experience of my interface with life felt more seamless, if that makes sense. I have a friend who also mentioned dissociation, and I've wondered about that a lot. As I said in another post, I still meditate sometimes when I'm tired, and doing it occasionally doesn't bring that effect -- perhaps as you say it's a matter of degree. I find it difficult to even pinpoint what I mean by dissociation, but in that you and my friend mentioned it, I'm curious to investigate it more.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "It goes to the heart of what does meditation improve or add to one's life?" Wow -- this is such a complex question for me when I start to think about it. First of all, cause and effect seems less and less like a reality to me. Everything seems more and more like a simultaneous happening which only has a cause and effect story line when viewed through various mental and psychological functions. That's getting pretty abstract, but my mind goes there, so I'll now try to be more concrete. I can say that after I started TM, I felt better. Was that because of the effect of the meditation, or was it because I thought I had something in my life that I thought was going to improve my life ad infinitum? So first problem for me is what caused me to feel better, TM or something else? In fact, there are so many things influencing us all of the time, how can we say what particular influence causes something? Along other lines, some "good" things happened after starting TM, but so did some "bad" things. So are only the good things from TM? And then in more recent years, my life seemed to improve a lot when I stopped doing TM regularly. Maybe TM is good at certain times and not others. Maybe I could have done any number of other practices and had the same results. Maybe it would have happened anyway because of the planets. I can't ever really know. All I seem to be able to do these days is see what I do. Lately I've been meditating in the afternoon sometimes when I'm tired because it is deeply restful for. If I feel really good afterwards and even if some special experience happens, I don't draw any conclusions about it. Tomorrow's another day.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
> People's self awareness and capacity for genuine introspection is a > completely separate development from any "spiritual" practice. Some > people develop it and some do not. (New improved by FFL version) Doesn't seem to me that the development of these has anything to do with "spiritual" practice. I like that "spiritual" is in quotes, because that term can mean so many different things. Most of my life I thought I was so "spiritual". I'd go so far as to say I was a "spiritual snob". The longer I live, and the less relevant to a full life and living most spiritual concepts and practices seem to me, the more I discover people whose lives and characters really inspire me who have never done any so-called spiritual practice. I remember once when I was working in a hospice program. I worked with a "patient" (dying man) who had been involved in spiritual pursuits for most of his life. He had put a lot of attention on "spirituality". Yet, of all the people I'd worked with, he had the most fear of losing control and dying. His brother would come to visit and in the course of conversation would refer to the patient as the spiritual one, stating that he himself wasn't particularly spiritual. What struck me, however, was that this brother (the "non-spiritual" one) showed a tremendous capacity for compassion and did a great deal of giving in his life. He was a successful man materially and had a good family life. In every way, he seemed to represent what most people think would be some of the fruits of spiritual practice. Enjoyed the line of thinking in the rest of you post, BTW.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Steve Martin of Wilmington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ruthsimplicity" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It does seem impossible to evaluate anyone else's experience. Certainly our experiences, spiritual or otherwise, are colored by innumerable factors having to do with our unique conditioning. I did want to say, however, that the term "group delusion" has come up in my mind about the TMO. I don't think it's any different, though, than the shared delusions or illusions people may have as part of a religion or even a culture. I do think our experiences can be colored, or even created, out of a set of expectations and desires which are reinforced in a group. It's that you were able to own your experience and perception despite the influence of the group, and to not second guess yourself that maybe you were mistaken. > People often describe "ah ha" experiences they have, where in an > instant something is made clear. I had the clear experience of > suddenly looking outside myself to what was happening on the course > and knowing deep inside that it was delusion. Now I cannot know if > I am right or if anyone else is right about their spiritual > experiences, but that was my experience. I hate to use the word > because it might get people's back up, but I felt like I was > witnessing something akin to group psychosis.
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Becoming a Demigod
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If some things happen that aren't an expression of Divine Will, what will would be causing them? > > Does anything ever happen that *isn't* an expression of Divine Will? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Becoming a Demigod
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The modern interpretation of a demigod is a human being who has > attained the status of a saint among the eyes of the people. In other > words, a saint becomes a unique force of Nature for carrying out the > Divine Will. Would MMY qualify this august status? or Guru Dev? > How do we know what the Divine Will is?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Life as safe haven
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think Rick should be commended for this, and for > having had the foresight to have created a forum > that will become a resource for many AS they work > out their conflicting feelings. Yes! Thank you, thank you, Rick. FFL has been a tremendous resource for many of us!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Chopra Letter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, boyboy_8 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >You are correct though, perhaps I just > have to live with the puzzles and accept them for what they are, > rather than try to sift and winnow. I could do that for the rest of > my life and not really know for sure. Seeking clarity is what I > desire but there are limits to what I can know. I think we can do both, have increasing acceptance that life is full of puzzles we can't solve, and continue to sift and winnow. Perhaps the sifting and winnowing reveals things to us along the way. No harm in it that I can see. FWIW -- About what did or didn't happen with Chopra and Maharishi -- I don't think it's possible to establish exactly what happened in any event in the past. The perception we had at the time was selective or partial to begin with, filtered through our conditioning, and memory can do funny tricks. I could tell a story every day about something that happened and it would likely be a bit different every time, that is unless I've created and memorized a certain version of things for some reason which I continue to repeat. I've often heard people do that, but if you are open and growing, new angles will come into your awareness as you go along. > > All the best > > Fred > > [snip] >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Pundits Fleeced
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Once upon a time, I thought the TMO in the US was a registered non-profit and as such accountable with the necessity of record-keeping and reporting and so on. How is it that so much money can get syphoned off to "International"? Who keeps the books in the US? Anyone know how all this happens? > For decades the Indian TMO has treated MUM as a cash cow, nearly bleeding it > to death on numerous occasions. The university is up to its eyeballs in debt > due to the constant financial drain from "International." This incident with > the pundits is the second blatant "inside job" I'm aware of. The first was > when Eberhard Doberstein drove late one night from New Delhi to Noida > carrying a large amount of cash to pay the salaries of the employees of the > movement printing press he was managing there. En route, he was pulled over > by armed, masked thugs who took the cash and let him go. Obviously someone > on the inside knew that his particular car was carrying cash, and organized > the heist. > > In this more recent pundit incident, the MUM/Vedic City authorities must > have notified the folks in India that the pundits would be given some > spending money. Someone in the chain of command, either the guy at the > airport or the folks he was representing, decided that $5000 would be a nice > little chunk of pocket change and decided to take it, thumbing their nose at > the folks in FF who had contributed it. > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.7/1283 - Release Date: 2/16/2008 > 2:16 PM >
[FairfieldLife] Everything is the action of the three gunas?
I seem to remember MMY once writing that everything is the action of the three gunas, but that it was better either not to entertain this knowledge or not to share it with those who are not ready for this understanding and might misinterpret it and (I presume) use it as a basis to be irresponsible. I've tried in vain to find where I read that. Anyone else remember that and does anyone know where it was?
[FairfieldLife] Re: I Think We Need To Know
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sticheau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I read John Hagelin's note and my eye got caught on the words "very > enlightened" as he was describing Tony Nader. As I understand it, > pregnancy, virginity, and enlightenment are pretty exclusive > conditions, as in: you is or you ain't. So, "very enlightened" > snagged my eyes as I read it. My question is simple: is or is not > Tony Nader enlightened? I don't know if this is a serious question, but if it is, I am curious to know who you think can answer this accurately? >As in: is in the is-or-ain't binary > exclusion. Depends on who you talk to. So many definitions of enlightenment around. I know for some of the people you mention below would say that , you are or you aren't and there's no in-between or partial enlightenment. As in Jed McKenna, Ramana Maharshi, Wayne Liquorman, > Nisargadatta, Guru Dev and MMY enlightenment. As in the "abiding > non-dual state." 'Cause, to use Jed's idea, "if it isn't abiding, it > isn't sh*t." Do you mean that you feel all these people were/are enlightened and that they all fit the same criteria of enlightenment? So, to those deep in the nether regions and in the know, Who is deep in the nether regions and in the know, and how do you know they are?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Deepak Chopra: The Maharishi Years - The Untold Story: Recollections of a Fo
I'm thankful to Deepak for sharing his personal experiences with Maharishi and the circumstances of his leaving the movement. Of course, it's a beautifully written piece, and seems quite straightforward and honest. Clearly Chopra is reflecting on the contradictory impressions he is left with of Maharishi, as are many of us. Although my journey in resolving those contradictory impressions does not lead me to the same conclusions that Deepak currently entertains, I appreciate that he is willing to openly share his experiences and thoughts given his fame. There has always been speculation that Chopra (as well as Jerry Jarvis and others) left the movement because Maharishi didn't want anyone to become too much of a leader or upstage him in any way. This piece seems to confirm those dynamics. It's not surprising that his "successor" doesn't speak -- a perfect way for Maharishi to remain the centerpiece. That I now see Maharishi as a human being, as full of contradictions as the rest of us, doesn't diminish my affection for him and my gratitude for all I learned from him. He can both be the man who needed to be (or filled his followers needs for him to be) the ultimate authority on all things Vedic, and the man who gave me wonderful tools and useful concepts on my path. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > HYPERLINK > "http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/the-maharishi-years-the_b_86412 > .html"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/the-maharishi-years-the_b_ > 86412.html >
[FairfieldLife] Re: A short list of my grievances with the movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for your comments about what I wrote, very insightful. I > especially dug when you talked about people projecting special power > on to you. And you knew it! Good for you. > I'm still working it all out. I don't have a model of "enlightenment" I do currently have a model of enlightenment and what's interesting is that it's a far cry from what Maharishi presented to us. It has more to do with the dropping away of the illusion of separation/doership. Of course one can find concepts in Maharishi's talks/books that would seem to be about that, but his focus on relative perfection makes me feel he wasn't really getting at what interests me. It's fascinating to find myself having lost my interest in his descriptions of the states of consciousness when once I was so enamored with that. It feels as if my path has taken me into a whole different universe. > these days really so I am back to the physiological stuff when > thinking about Maharishi. I believe he was functioning in a different > way than I am but so is Donald Trump. I don't have to ascribe a > pathology to recognize that he and I are cut from radically different > cloth psychologically. Actually, I don't like ascribing pathology to anyone, so not sure how that came up except that idea -- of being able to act exactly as someone would want you to be -- had been mentioned in regard to Scott Peterson. And, much as I don't like to admit it, I'm not so sure I'm cut from a radically different cloth psychologically from Maharishi... I don't buy the simple con theory. I think he > believed most of his rap. Yes The gap is where the weirdness of all of us > got reflected back to him due to his role with us all. Just as you > described in your teaching experience. > > > >But he also didn't end up a billionaire with an > > > uncompleted Gita commentary by accident... > > > > Didn't follow this -- please explain! > > > > I just mean that he was money motivated at a Trumplike level. You > don't get that rich by accident, it takes tremendous focus. Likewise, > despite his claim to loving knowledge more than anything, he never > finished most of his long term mental projects. If you spend day > after day with him it is like chasing an ADD child, but leaving actual > human lives in his wake. Interesting... > > Nice rap man, I'll keep an eye out for your posts. This is the first group I've participated in. Still getting the hang of it and am overwhelmed by the volume of posts (was even before MMY's death increased the activity). Wanted to reply here, though, because this line of conversation really interests me, and it's been helpful to think/feel some things out here. Thanks! And by the way, I'm not a man...
[FairfieldLife] Re: A short list of my grievances with the movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You know, I am trying to find an understanding of what went on with > Maharishi. Me too! It's an interesting process. First he became a "fallible" human being and then the question of what was actually going on with him. How did it all evolve? In the process, there's been a disentangling from notions I held as true for so long, as well as deliberations, much like yours, about MMY -- his personality, psyche, motivations, etc. >If you start with a guy who is sincere A big question is -- was he basically sincere? Clearly there are people who are consciously deceptive and manipulative, and he could have been one of them. I remember seeing a show about Scott Peterson where it was stated that a psychopath can be a genius at being exactly what people wanted him to be in order to achieve his ends. MMY could be incredibly charming and was really good at reading people, I gather. At the same time, I still feel a lot of affection for MMY and find it difficult to entertain that idea about him. At this point, I'm just rolling various things around in my mind and heart and haven't really landed anywhere definitive. I'm not an expert on psychology, for sure, and don't really know if the diagnostic categories we've developed here in the West apply in other cultures, nevertheless the idea of someone who is expert in developing a personality that "works" could certainly fit Maharishi. >and has a pretty > good head for hype and business, honed through his PR experience for > Guru Dev... He was a genius at marketing for sure. > Add in that he is blocked from advancing in his teacher's system by > caste... That's really an interesting angle! > > Oh yeah and subtract the type of conscience that keeps the rest of us > more restrained... Yeah, again that's what I'm wondering -- was there that lack of conscience? > And as the people start giving him rock star status, he starts to dig > it first, then believe it a bit more... > This, I feel, is definitely a large part of what went on. Teachers get inflated by how their followers are viewing them. IMO much of the power of a spiritual leader is projected onto them, so that they are in a sense a channel for the energy of the group. I've seen this effect on a very small scale in my own life. I've done some teaching related to healing and spirituality. When teaching there was a phenomenon where I was infused with energy and often serendipitous events would happen within the group that made me seem somehow special to people -- to be the source of something. It's too much to try to describe this whole phase here, but suffice it to say it was easy for me to fall into believing that. I actually had a reputation in my local area among certain people which was really their projection. > "Hey maybe it IS my mission to spiritually regenerate the whole world" Yes, this thinking wouldn't have gotten very far without those who wanted to believe and wanted someone playing that role. > > And the West can't get enough of it, adoring crowds, blond women... > > And he gets enough money to create a little insulated kingdom in > Switzerland and he keeps weeding out the people who raise their > eyebrows at anything he says... Yes, and all the people around him are then surrounded only by those who entertain the same view... > > I could keep this up all night, feel free to add more pieces of this > enigma named Maharishi. But I am feeling kindlier. Personally I > think it was a bit of snake oil but I'm willing to believe that he > believed his own rap, he wasn't just a two bit shyster cynic like a > Benny Hinn. Yeah, I'm leaning on the side of a something more innocent having happened. I don't think he started out to con people, but I still entertain that possibility at times. I had developed a theory with some similar elements at one point. In that theory it all started out with MMY losing Guru Dev and being unable to bear the loss. Maybe his "attunement" to Guru Dev (and his reputed enlightenment through that) was more a psychological dependency? Maybe he was so identified with Guru Dev and being his disciple that he had to continue to keep him alive in himself and thus it all began. But I'm not so fond of this theory anymore... >But he also didn't end up a billionaire with an > uncompleted Gita commentary by accident... Didn't follow this -- please explain!
[FairfieldLife] Re: A short list of my grievances with the movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think the special sounds > business was only important for branding. I thought in the beginning > of teaching in India Maharishi only used the mantra Raam? Later the > articulated system came out which would have helped if people were > comparing mantras. It isn't as special if everyone has the same one. It's interesting to speculate why some TTCs were given different sets of mantras from other TTCs (and presumably only one mantra in the beginning). If it was all based on what Guru Dev and the tradition passed on to MMY, why wouldn't it have been clear from the get go which mantras to use and why wouldn't they have remained consistent? I know when I was a TB I could find a way to justify anything that MMY did. I had, or needed to have, blind faith in him. I could come up with all kinds of reasons now as well that would preserve MMYs image as a perfect, infallible teacher whose every action was calculated to bring about the best possible result for the individual and the world, but that's no longer something I need or want to do. The possibility that it was for branding purposes does seem very real.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A short list of my grievances with the movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ruthsimplicity" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As far as objectivity, I would say I am as objective as anyone here. We > all view the world through our own experiences. Yes, how could anyone ever be completely objective? IMO objectivity doesn't really exist!
[FairfieldLife] Re: A short list of my grievances with the movement
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Again, though, the circuit is within one's own consciousness, not a circuit between one's consciousness and something external (at least in the esoteric TM context). About this reply -- Most religions, or at least people's understanding of them, are based on something external to oneself which one is in relationship with. How could anyone who follows a religion embrace the above idea? It seems this argument won't work to convince many people who are invested in a religion that the mantras do not have any implication for their religious convictions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
Re: this quote from Domash's essay: "The Shankaracharya tradition has preserved not only > these sounds, but also a system of rules or formulae by which > they are to be assigned to individuals, the idea being that a > particular sound has a quality that resonates best with the > structure of a particular nervous system. " If a set of rules or formulas was being followed that indicate which sound resonates best with the structure of a particular nervous system, then why would the mantras given have changed over time?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
I've pretty much read through this thread, wvansant111, and have really appreciated your open, straightforward posts in which you share your own unique story and questions. As background, I was a "governor" and heavily involved in the TMO at one time, then gradually drifted away with involvement with a whole string of other teachers, practices and so on. I swallowed everything MMY said hook, line and sinker. Only very gradually over time did I begin to see MMY as simply another human being, certainly very charistmatic and creative, but also IMO quite imbalanced in ways I have yet to understand. For a long time I had seen him as some sort of perfected being who knew everything and whose every word was "truth". As I look back on it, it's no different than any other kind of religious fanaticism -- with the need to feel there is some all-powerful, "right" authority from whom one could derive benefit through devotion and service. Doesn't seem any different that Christians who believe they've been "saved". Anyone who fell off the path was seen (by me) to be headed for danger and to have lost the way. It was really that bad! Fortunately, over time, I matured and no longer need that kind of authority in my life. It now seems that although involvement in the TMO may have been just the "group delusion" I needed at one time, it may also have kept me from doing some other things that might have been helpful (because I believed that all you needed to do was transcend). I don't feel, however, that my life could have been anything other than it was at any point along the way, so it's all speculation. Interestingly, there was much I learned from MMY that has been invaluable, and I do feel the practice of TM was of benefit. I also feel that any number of practices could have conferred the same kind of benefit, so I no longer think TM is special and unique. I do TM occasionally now, just when I'm tired at the end of the day. That practice did teach me how to drop into a deeply restful state, and that's certainly useful. In saying that there was much I learned from MMY that was invaluable, I want to add that I feel what we learn from a teacher is something we take away. It may or may not be what the teacher themselves felt they were teaching. Some insight occurs in us, irrespective of what is being taught. Perhaps I would have learned exactly the same things in a completely different way had it not been for MMY. That's all speculation but interesting to think about. I did find when I was teaching some classes (not TM) that often someone would say -- "One great thing you said..." or "One great thing I learned from you..." and I would be amazed at what they thought I had said! In the end, what difference does it make? When I heard of MMY's death, I realized I still feel a lot of warmth toward him. Perhaps I always will. But what is it that I feel that affection about? Is it the "real" MMY, or is it the person I experienced him to be? Have mostly lurked here from time to time, rarely posted, but am finding now as I write this that it's an interesting learning experience! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wvansant111" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've just finished reading a lot of the information on tm-free blog. my > head it sort of reeling of course. I've had mixed feelings about TMO > and Maharishi in general, but I have believed in the benefits of TM. If > I put everything else aside - just the fact that I quit smoking, > drinking and drugs afterwards was a pretty dramatic change. I had a > highly addictive personality and was very set in my ways. No adults > could get through to me. I had flunked out of school pre-TM. After I > started doing TM, I went back to school and graduated cum laude. > However, I would agree that meditating in large doses made me spaced > out and dysfunctional. > > I'm just wondering in any of you believe that MMY was fraud but still > value his practice. Paul Mason said he is still pro-TM which is hard to > believe considering the information on his website. > > Any thoughts welcome. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
Our conclusions are so similar to mine (and least thus far on my journey). You've written them so concisely and clearly. Although I only visit FFL occasionally, I've been reading a lot since MMY's death. I too find it a valuable place for sorting out my thoughts and feelings about this technique and man who occupied such an important place in my life for so long. Although I haven't been involved with the TMO for a long time and do TM only occasionally, it's clearly not a closed chapter in my life or I wouldn't be here on FFL. Thanks so much for this lucid post, ruthsimplicity! > I am coming to the very personal conclusions that: > > (1) MMY probably believed strongly in himself and his cause, but was > manipulative, lacked empathy, was prone to exaggeration and I don't > believe he was enlightened. He as the founder is ultimately > responsible for the organizations that have evolved under his tenure. > > (2) Meditation 20 minutes twice a day probably does no harm and > likely does a fair amount of people some good. A chance to step back, > relax, let go. Maybe it has some physical benefits but they are not > pronounced. The psychological benefits are harder to quantify. > Spiritual benefits? The jury is out for me. I wouldn't pay the > current price. The price is elitist. > > (3) I question whether the advanced techniques and the siddhis have > any benefit whatsoever. The promised benefits have not been shown. > The claims are exaggerated. The teachers say you need no faith to > practice the techniques, but why would you practice the techniques > unless you had faith that they worked? Super highway to enlightenment? > I don't see it. If it is a superhighway, I know plenty of people who > have been on that highway for more than 30 years, still going around > in circles. I think that any benefits people perceive are in large > part due to justification. You invested a lot of time and money; > dissonance theory makes it likely that you will exaggerate the > benefits and minimize the detriments and never know you did so. > > (4) Excessive meditation, like rounding, may be dangerous to some and > is good for almost no one. > > (5) The TMO is a collection of various corporations and entities that > are not financially transparent which leads to considerable > speculation as to where the money goes. It is paternalistic and not > democratic, inconsistent with many western values. Its leadership > structure and asset ownership structure is obscure. It has blinders on > as to the TM techniques and its affiliated scientists often refuses to > cooperate with outside scientists and they ignore potential problems > in some meditators. Its inside scientists do not behave as scientists, > they behave like religious fanatics. Yet, as a religion it fails. The > various religious type pronouncements are inconsistent (think Nader > and heaven vs. the more mystical hindu view) and it has no real > ethical or moral teachings. Trying to make it a religion without an > underlying morality is dangerous. Yet many TBs seem to make it a > religion. And, after all, the TMO says it is NOT a religion. > > (6) Given the exaggerated claims, the unproven benefits, why would > anyone then buy into the siddhis, the food supplements, the natural > law party, the vastu architecture, the pulse diagnosis, the yagyas, > the consciousness based education, all the things that the movement > wants to sell? A rational person would want damn good evidence. Or > they would have to be religious about it, taking these things on faith > because they trust what their religion says about these things. Well, > I already have concluded that as a religion the movement fails. And it > professes not to be a religion anyway. I already have concluded that > I do not trust MMY enough to take his pronouncements on faith alone. > > > Thanks the the forum for helping me think through what I believe. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same.
[FairfieldLife] "Discharge" vs. "Expression" in Dialogue
A beautiful post from another online community -- "I am finding this to be a very intriguing thread as several of those who have replied have brought up the issues of freedom of expression and sensitivity. I have been doing some research on various types of expression lately and thought that maybe I could add something to this post on the concepts of freedom of expression, and sensitivity. I recently read about the distinction between discharge and expression. With the former there lies an attitude that one must expel from themselves something they have taken in that feels foreign to one's being. With discharge there often comes a catharsis or release. While the release might temporarily leave one feeling empowered it is often a short lived experience. With expression, writers such as Darwin, Hospers, and Dewey state that true expression involves a conservation of energy, and a rhythmic internal process of allowing a building of resistance and tension balanced by periodic and measured releases. The result is that with verbal and written interchanges a feeling of true connection can be achieved as the differences between those in dialogue are actually being digested, absorbed, considered more deeply. In this sense, expressions contains an aesthetic quality. The conversation then becomes a thing of beauty as those involved both feel heard. True expression then is a mature, thoughtful, and considered process, a process where we allow experience to move through us with awareness, noting how the experience changes us, how difference informs us of who we are, and then responding to the differences creatively. With reaction and discharge we are asking others to do our work for us, externalizing our own internal processes. As friends to one another we commonly do this. Our friends witness our reactions and discharges and we are gracefully held in their care. In this way we help each other develop more maturity, and we can all use more of that. One more point in regards to the distinctions between true expression and discharge and reaction; There is often a call by posters (on this site and others) to be truthful, direct, not beat around the bush, a hold nothing back attitude. Be wary when you see this as it is often an invitation to say something that will unleash the others own internal critics, again externalizing the process into a discharge. In regards to sensitivity, I believe a few have spoken of the need to develop a thicker skin while using this board. I think that is a wise statement. However, I wish the opposite were true. I think we would all be much better off if there was enough safety and trust where we could all wear our thinner skins." Tony
[FairfieldLife] Re: Checklist of "Enlightenment Games"
I love this checklist! Is this your creation, Vaj? It reminded me of when I was very involved with Gangaji some years back. I fell into some of these funny traps. If I've experienced anything that could be called "progress" on my spiritual journey, I feel it's finally being able to speak and behave like a "regular" human being if that makes any sense. Whether or not it's progress, it's a big relief!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks for your impressions. The language form she uses is clearly > meant to shift states of awareness. It would work better in a room > where you didn't have other entertainment options pulling at you, I > suspect. It is deadly on TV with a remote in my hand. But is does > seem to utilize some good hypnotic therapy techniques, so it doesn't > surprise me that people find it has value. Some of her sessions seem > like watching someone in therapy going through a process. Thank you so much for this observation, Curtis. I was very involved with Gangaji for several years, and still find myself processing the experience from time to time, just as I do my many years of involvement with the TMO. This is very insightful. I had been quite captivated by her for some time, but finally came to feel that she had a way of producing experiences in people which they took for "awakening". Of course, everyone has a different idea of what awakening is, and I do also wonder what Rick meant when he said people had awakened with her (and also what evidence there is for that awakening.) In any case, it seemed what Gangaji had experienced was transitory - like any experience that comes and goes. It seems to me that awakening, to be a truly meaningful shift, would entail a transition that is permanent. Gangaji always emphasized the need for "vigilance" -- that a person would have an "awakening" that they would then need to sustain through a process of vigilance. In other words, this awakening could occur and then be lost without effort to maintain it. The description of Gangaji's interactions as being hypnotic really seems to zero in on something. She speaks in a rather hynotic way and can be very charming (to some) and poetic. I think a lot of people become infatuated with her image. Well -- there's lots more percolating thanks to your remarks. Thanks! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Has anyone tried the BodyVed program?
Wondering if anyone has tried the BodyVed program and if so, what the experience with it has been. Any results? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Electronic mantra chanting machine
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I use a mantra with OM in it. Have been for several years. Material and > spiritual well-being have improved significantly during this period. What type of meditation do you do with the mantra? Japa? Out loud? Is it the mantra or how you use it? (Or maybe the improvement is from stopping using the other mantra! So hard to tease out cause and effect. There are always so many factors which change.) In any case I'm curious about the method of meditation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/jDk17A/gOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Electronic mantra chanting machine
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I use a mantra with OM in it. Have been for several years. Material and > spiritual well-being have improved significantly during this period. > I tried to post this and it doesn't seem to have appeared so I'm trying again -- sorry if a repeat post comes through. My question to Rick is how he uses the mantra. Wondering if the difference is in how it is used rather than the mantra itself? (Or maybe just stoppping using the former mantra was beneficial!) I always find it so hard to tease out cause and effect with various practices, workshops, etc. There are always so many influences constantly changing in life. Sometimes things may be an energetic shift, such as a change in astrology, and the new practice is part and parcel of that, or a reflection of that... In any case, wondering what kind of meditation practice it is -- japa? Repeated out loud? Chanted? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/mDk17A/lOaOAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: So what do you all think of THESE experiences.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > All from just somebody who has gone to a 3 week course putting his > hands on their heads. Is this moodmaking or what? > This guy has gone to the 3 week diksha course in India and then a 10 > day 'deepening' as he calls it. > He sends out these emails every week. > > 2/8 I have received deeksha on a number of occasions and have also used the "chakra dhyana" meditation CD which was produced within the "Oneness Movement". Both of these have definitely had a profound effect on me. Like any practice that expands awareness or enlivens the nervous system (or however you want to describe spiritual expansion), I have had both very positive experiences, such as an increase in love, and experiences which I would call "purification". Overall, however, since becoming involved with this, there has been a very positive trend. For many years I experienced an inner silence, but it seemed separate from activity and the mind was still very dominant with its old conditioning (habitual patterns of thinking such as worry, over-analyzing, etc.) Since deeksha, this has changed quite a bit. The silence has become "thicker" and is more infused into my activity and day to day experience, with the sense of separation being less. The mind is less dominant and there is more detachment from the old patterns which just don't seem so over-shadowing. I was extremely skeptical about deeksha and the whole Oneness Movement before trying it. What got my attention is that when my husband became involved and went to a one day intensive, there was a dramatic shift in my experience throughout the day (as I am very affected by his state of consciousness). It was undeniable. I've continued to maintain a "wait and see" attitude and some skepticism, but what I am experiencing is definitely different and in a positive direction. Unlike the TM program where teachers teach in a very standard way and have a uniform way of presenting the program, the Oneness Movement does not have a teaching per se. The common element is the experience of deeksha. The "deeksha givers" talk about it from their own perspective, so I don't pay a lot of attention to their descriptions and interpretations. I rely on my own experience. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
