[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 13, 2006, at 7:15 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: > > > Vaj writes;snipped > > Yuganaddha, two-in-one, is a paradox that's difficult to describe in > > linear words. There will automatically be a disconnect between written > > descriptions and the experience itself. It cannot be adequately > > described by words in written or spoken speech. > > > > Tom T: > > Is this the same as the paradox of Brahman? Just checking since you > > are the scholar and know all this detail stuff. Thanks Tom T > > I'm not a scholar, I haven't a clue. > Truer words were never spoken. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 7:15 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote:Vaj writes;snipped Yuganaddha, two-in-one, is a paradox that's difficult to describe in linear words. There will automatically be a disconnect between written descriptions and the experience itself. It cannot be adequately described by words in written or spoken speech. Tom T: Is this the same as the paradox of Brahman? Just checking since you are the scholar and know all this detail stuff. Thanks Tom T I'm not a scholar, I haven't a clue. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Patrick Gillam wrote:--- Vaj wrote:Vaj wrote:I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as purevision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to beenlightenment.Without breaking any vows I think it's safe to say that since you need to perfect the generation stage before perfecting a completion stage practice, like consort practice. Oh, I think I understand. I had missed the notion that this fellow had taken a consort as part of his spiritual path -- that the sex was for awakening, as opposed to being for all the other joys of sex. I can see how such a path may entail some prerequisites.So, is the controversy centered on the monk's claims to a certain level of spiritual development? I had taken it as more of an old-fashioned teacher-consorting-with-student controversy.That's definitely part of it because typically you would not make such a public announcement. He also announced that those receiving transmission from him should receive transmission from his four "ladies" (dakinis or shaktis).Here's a recent account from a student at Diamond Mountain, please remember this is just one opinion (from another POV his actions could be historically significant and incredibly important), the whole thread is quite interesting and can be found at:http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?s=e8ff8de44938123438680c315a60e937&showtopic=9832Barry might find the oblique comments on Zen Master Rama interesting.:Geshe Michael Roach doesn't seem to be content with only one consort. He has now surrounded himself with four... Lady Ora, Lady Christie, Lady Pelma and Lady Trisangma. The title "Lady" was granted by Geshe Michael himself, and in his world means "Dakini". One might be forgiven for finding it suspicious that if Geshe Michael is to surround himself with four close students who share in teaching Tantra at Diamond Mountain, that all four are women. In fact, we find it a little too much to take seriously... we mean.. what are the odds!It is also rumoured that at least some of these ladies have fallen prey to Geshe Michael's personal body parts when he has given them actual "Consort Initiation" as part of the Tantric aspect which he now roleplays.Not only this, but during the current Tantra course, in a very untraditional move, Geshe Michael insisted that any student who takes initiation from him must in fact take initiation from all four ladies as well.. even if those ladies were not his students.So, it's raining Dakinis in Geshe Michaels world, one has to question the ethicacy of the entire situation. In a closed room, during the De Lam course at Diamond Mountain in the winter of 2004, Geshe Michael again performed theatrics when he asked for all recording devices to be turned off, and the lights turned out. Then, to the 80 students present, Geshe Michael proceded to tell of his own qualifications to teach Tantra.You see, at an early age, around his 23rd year, Geshe Michael believes he realised emptiness, one of the highest spiritual attainments according to Buddhism. Geshe Michael also claims that he has met directly with, and takes teachings and initiations from Vajra Yogini, a female Buddhist deity, in person. It is Vajra Yogini who directly gives him his guidance. He claims to have first met the Goddess in his late teans or early twenties.These claims are almost never made in public by the Lamas of our lineage, for very good reasons, and the fact that they are made by Geshe Michael must make anyone slightly suspicious. During this talk, he also claimed that some of the young students present, whom he had been in retreat with, are also his Lamas. The danger of Geshe Michael's behaviour has since become apparent, as it is believed that Geshe Micheal has taken to giving actual consort initiation (involving placing his penis inside their bodies) to some of his young female students.One explanation is a serious case of spirit harm, as it is said that spirits can appear to human beings in different forms and mislead them, or perhaps the Geshe has simply lost it, and is suffering from severe mental delusion. The fact is that his teachings and outward behaviour do not coincide with that of other respected Buddhist teachers and do not fit with the Gelugpa tradition which he claims to uphold. This can only be harmful to Buddhism in general and his students in particular.It is the opinion of every Buddhist scholar to whom I have spoken, that Geshe Michael is not only inconsistent in his teachings, but the manner in which he presents one of the two major Mahayana Budddhist pholosophies, known as "emptiness", is not correct according to the generally held Prasangika Madhyamika viewpoint.The other point of contention, is that Geshe Micheal almost never teaches the other of the two major Mahayana Buddhist pholosophies, known as "Bodhicitta". This is an issue that he brushes upon occassionally, however never dwells on and does not teach in detail. It is said that emptiness and bodhici
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- Vaj wrote: > > >> Vaj wrote: > >> I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as pure > >> vision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to be > >> enlightenment. > >> > > Without breaking any vows I think it's safe to say that since you > need to perfect the generation stage before perfecting a completion > stage practice, like consort practice. Oh, I think I understand. I had missed the notion that this fellow had taken a consort as part of his spiritual path -- that the sex was for awakening, as opposed to being for all the other joys of sex. I can see how such a path may entail some prerequisites. So, is the controversy centered on the monk's claims to a certain level of spiritual development? I had taken it as more of an old-fashioned teacher-consorting-with-student controversy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
Vaj writes;snipped Yuganaddha, two-in-one, is a paradox that's difficult to describe in linear words. There will automatically be a disconnect between written descriptions and the experience itself. It cannot be adequately described by words in written or spoken speech. Tom T: Is this the same as the paradox of Brahman? Just checking since you are the scholar and know all this detail stuff. Thanks Tom T Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "oxymoronic" eight morons? I have just counted five so far. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 13, 2006, at 1:29 PM, authfriend wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On Jan 13, 2006, at 12:03 PM, authfriend wrote: > >> > >> > >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> > > > On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:35 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > > > I don't believe you addressed my question. > > > > > > I have. > > > > > > > Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be > > "transcendental," by definition--unless you're > > using a very different definition of the > > transcendent than any I've ever seen. > > > > > > Jnana is transcendental. > > > >>> > >>> Let me say it another way: > >>> > >>> Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be > >>> "transcendental," by definition--unless you're > >>> using a very different definition of the > >>> transcendent than any I've ever seen. > >> > >> What is the status of thought in Unity Consciousness? > > > > We were talking about the Transcendent, not > > Unity consciousness. > > No you were talking about the transcendent. I was talking about > transcendental morality. > > Where do you think transcendental morality comes from? Well, that's what I was asking about, actually. > It comes from a different state than waking. No doubt. But if it involves distinctions, to call it "transcendental" is oxymoronic. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 1:29 PM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jan 13, 2006, at 12:03 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:35 AM, authfriend wrote: I don't believe you addressed my question. I have. Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be"transcendental," by definition--unless you'reusing a very different definition of thetranscendent than any I've ever seen. Jnana is transcendental. Let me say it another way:Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be"transcendental," by definition--unless you'reusing a very different definition of thetranscendent than any I've ever seen. What is the status of thought in Unity Consciousness? We were talking about the Transcendent, notUnity consciousness. No you were talking about the transcendent. I was talking about transcendental morality.Where do you think transcendental morality comes from? It comes from a different state than waking. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 13, 2006, at 12:03 PM, authfriend wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:35 AM, authfriend wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I don't believe you addressed my question. > >>> > >> > >> I have. > >> > >> > >>> > >>> Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be > >>> "transcendental," by definition--unless you're > >>> using a very different definition of the > >>> transcendent than any I've ever seen. > >>> > >> > >> Jnana is transcendental. > >> > > > > Let me say it another way: > > > > Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be > > "transcendental," by definition--unless you're > > using a very different definition of the > > transcendent than any I've ever seen. > > What is the status of thought in Unity Consciousness? We were talking about the Transcendent, not Unity consciousness. You may want to > review the four levels of speech in Maharishi Vedic Science to help > you. Or read the Nasadiya sukta of Rig Veda, preferably with a friend > who understands Sanskrit. Yuganaddha, two-in-one, is a paradox that's > difficult to describe in linear words. There will automatically be a > disconnect between written descriptions and the experience itself. It > cannot be adequately described by words in written or spoken speech. > > The only "distinction" is that linear speech requires a distinction > made up of a string of words to describe jnana. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 12:03 PM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:35 AM, authfriend wrote: I don't believe you addressed my question. I have. Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be "transcendental," by definition--unless you're using a very different definition of the transcendent than any I've ever seen. Jnana is transcendental. Let me say it another way: Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be "transcendental," by definition--unless you're using a very different definition of the transcendent than any I've ever seen. What is the status of thought in Unity Consciousness? You may want to review the four levels of speech in Maharishi Vedic Science to help you. Or read the Nasadiya sukta of Rig Veda, preferably with a friend who understands Sanskrit. Yuganaddha, two-in-one, is a paradox that's difficult to describe in linear words. There will automatically be a disconnect between written descriptions and the experience itself. It cannot be adequately described by words in written or spoken speech.The only "distinction" is that linear speech requires a distinction made up of a string of words to describe jnana. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:35 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > I don't believe you addressed my question. > > I have. > > > > > Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be > > "transcendental," by definition--unless you're > > using a very different definition of the > > transcendent than any I've ever seen. > > Jnana is transcendental. Let me say it another way: Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be "transcendental," by definition--unless you're using a very different definition of the transcendent than any I've ever seen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:35 AM, authfriend wrote:I don't believe you addressed my question.I have. Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be "transcendental," by definition--unless you're using a very different definition of the transcendent than any I've ever seen. Jnana is transcendental. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:14 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > IME the vows represent a transcendental morality, > >>> > >>> What's a "transcendental morality"? Seems like a > >>> contradiction in terms, the transcendent being > >>> beyond all distinctions, at least by any definition > >>> I've ever encountered. > >> > >> A set of insights into cause-effect, often defined as rules, that > >> emerge from transcendental or enlightened insight of reality as > >> to causes that attenuate progress towards enlightenment or > >> curtail establishment thereof. > > > > But the insights and the morality themselves are not > > transcendental, right? Once anything has "emerged" > > from the transcendent, it's no longer transcendental, > > in other words. > > The insights are. The change in behavior (the activity implied by > the "rules") supports attainment of higher states of consciousness. > > The higher you go, the finer the behavior--as the yogis say 'as > fine as barley flour'. > > All religions have these. They are all based on the law of karma: > actions produce results--from a Buddhist perspective until you > become a "stream enterer" you are still effected by behavior. I don't believe you addressed my question. Distinctions, no matter how fine, cannot be "transcendental," by definition--unless you're using a very different definition of the transcendent than any I've ever seen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:14 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:03 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: IME the vows represent a transcendental morality, What's a "transcendental morality"? Seems like a contradiction in terms, the transcendent being beyond all distinctions, at least by any definition I've ever encountered. A set of insights into cause-effect, often defined as rules, that emerge from transcendental or enlightened insight of reality as to causes that attenuate progress towards enlightenment or curtail establishment thereof. But the insights and the morality themselves are not transcendental, right? Once anything has "emerged" from the transcendent, it's no longer transcendental, in other words. The insights are. The change in behavior (the activity implied by the "rules") supports attainment of higher states of consciousness.The higher you go, the finer the behavior--as the yogis say 'as fine as barley flour'.All religions have these. They are all based on the law of karma: actions produce results--from a Buddhist perspective until you become a "stream enterer" you are still effected by behavior. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:03 AM, authfriend wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> IME the vows represent a transcendental morality, > >> > > > > What's a "transcendental morality"? Seems like a > > contradiction in terms, the transcendent being > > beyond all distinctions, at least by any definition > > I've ever encountered. > > A set of insights into cause-effect, often defined as rules, that > emerge from transcendental or enlightened insight of reality as to > causes that attenuate progress towards enlightenment or curtail > establishment thereof. But the insights and the morality themselves are not transcendental, right? Once anything has "emerged" from the transcendent, it's no longer transcendental, in other words. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 10:03 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: IME the vows represent a transcendental morality, What's a "transcendental morality"? Seems like a contradiction in terms, the transcendent being beyond all distinctions, at least by any definition I've ever encountered. A set of insights into cause-effect, often defined as rules, that emerge from transcendental or enlightened insight of reality as to causes that attenuate progress towards enlightenment or curtail establishment thereof. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > IME the vows represent a transcendental morality, What's a "transcendental morality"? Seems like a contradiction in terms, the transcendent being beyond all distinctions, at least by any definition I've ever encountered. that is they > reflect important elements that can help or hinder realization which > are not obvious "on the surface". That's the only reason they are of > any value. They really are specific to the practice we're talking > about and if one has questions, one should ask their teacher. They'd > be glad to explain why this is so and give examples. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Patrick Gillam wrote:--- Vaj wrote: Vaj wrote: I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as pure vision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to be enlightenment. Without breaking any vows I think it's safe to say that since you need to perfect the generation stage before perfecting a completion stage practice, like consort practice. Oh, I think I understand. I had missed the notion that this fellow had taken a consort as part of his spiritual path -- that the sex was for awakening, as opposed to being for all the other joys of sex. I can see how such a path may entail some prerequisites. So, is the controversy centered on the monk's claims to a certain level of spiritual development? I had taken it as more of an old-fashioned teacher-consorting-with-student controversy. That's definitely part of it because typically you would not make such a public announcement. He also announced that those receiving transmission from him should receive transmission from his four "ladies" (dakinis or shaktis).Here's a recent account from a student at Diamond Mountain, please remember this is just one opinion (from another POV his actions could be historically significant and incredibly important), the whole thread is quite interesting and can be found at:http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?s=e8ff8de44938123438680c315a60e937&showtopic=9832Barry might find the oblique comments on Zen Master Rama interesting.:Geshe Michael Roach doesn't seem to be content with only one consort. He has now surrounded himself with four... Lady Ora, Lady Christie, Lady Pelma and Lady Trisangma. The title "Lady" was granted by Geshe Michael himself, and in his world means "Dakini". One might be forgiven for finding it suspicious that if Geshe Michael is to surround himself with four close students who share in teaching Tantra at Diamond Mountain, that all four are women. In fact, we find it a little too much to take seriously... we mean.. what are the odds!It is also rumoured that at least some of these ladies have fallen prey to Geshe Michael's personal body parts when he has given them actual "Consort Initiation" as part of the Tantric aspect which he now roleplays.Not only this, but during the current Tantra course, in a very untraditional move, Geshe Michael insisted that any student who takes initiation from him must in fact take initiation from all four ladies as well.. even if those ladies were not his students.So, it's raining Dakinis in Geshe Michaels world, one has to question the ethicacy of the entire situation. In a closed room, during the De Lam course at Diamond Mountain in the winter of 2004, Geshe Michael again performed theatrics when he asked for all recording devices to be turned off, and the lights turned out. Then, to the 80 students present, Geshe Michael proceded to tell of his own qualifications to teach Tantra.You see, at an early age, around his 23rd year, Geshe Michael believes he realised emptiness, one of the highest spiritual attainments according to Buddhism. Geshe Michael also claims that he has met directly with, and takes teachings and initiations from Vajra Yogini, a female Buddhist deity, in person. It is Vajra Yogini who directly gives him his guidance. He claims to have first met the Goddess in his late teans or early twenties.These claims are almost never made in public by the Lamas of our lineage, for very good reasons, and the fact that they are made by Geshe Michael must make anyone slightly suspicious. During this talk, he also claimed that some of the young students present, whom he had been in retreat with, are also his Lamas. The danger of Geshe Michael's behaviour has since become apparent, as it is believed that Geshe Micheal has taken to giving actual consort initiation (involving placing his penis inside their bodies) to some of his young female students.One explanation is a serious case of spirit harm, as it is said that spirits can appear to human beings in different forms and mislead them, or perhaps the Geshe has simply lost it, and is suffering from severe mental delusion. The fact is that his teachings and outward behaviour do not coincide with that of other respected Buddhist teachers and do not fit with the Gelugpa tradition which he claims to uphold. This can only be harmful to Buddhism in general and his students in particular.It is the opinion of every Buddhist scholar to whom I have spoken, that Geshe Michael is not only inconsistent in his teachings, but the manner in which he presents one of the two major Mahayana Budddhist pholosophies, known as "emptiness", is not correct according to the generally held Prasangika Madhyamika viewpoint.The other point of contention, is that Geshe Micheal almost never teaches the other of the two major Mahayana Buddhist pholosophies, known as "Bodhicitta". This is an issue that he brushes upon occassionally, however never dwells on and does not teach in detail. It is said that
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- Vaj wrote: > > >> Vaj wrote: > >> I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as pure > >> vision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to be > >> enlightenment. > >> > > Without breaking any vows I think it's safe to say that since you > need to perfect the generation stage before perfecting a completion > stage practice, like consort practice. Oh, I think I understand. I had missed the notion that this fellow had taken a consort as part of his spiritual path -- that the sex was for awakening, as opposed to being for all the other joys of sex. I can see how such a path may entail some prerequisites. So, is the controversy centered on the monk's claims to a certain level of spiritual development? I had taken it as more of an old-fashioned teacher-consorting-with-student controversy. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 8:02 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Welcome to high voltage cause-&-effect. :-) And welcome to being limited by what you choose to believe. :-) IME the vows represent a transcendental morality, that is they reflect important elements that can help or hinder realization which are not obvious "on the surface". That's the only reason they are of any value. They really are specific to the practice we're talking about and if one has questions, one should ask their teacher. They'd be glad to explain why this is so and give examples. In other words, they'd be happy to reinforce the beliefs that they implanted in the students in the first place. :-) At a certain point, the reasons they're there become obvious. Thus the tantric saying " to ascend with the Conduct while descending with the View". To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Welcome to high voltage cause-&-effect. :-) > > > > And welcome to being limited by what you choose to believe. :-) > > IME the vows represent a transcendental morality, that is they > reflect important elements that can help or hinder realization > which are not obvious "on the surface". That's the only reason > they are of any value. They really are specific to the practice > we're talking about and if one has questions, one should ask > their teacher. They'd be glad to explain why this is so and > give examples. In other words, they'd be happy to reinforce the beliefs that they implanted in the students in the first place. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 13, 2006, at 3:15 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It has nothing to do with rules per se but those activities that will support enlightened activity and realization. The vows are there for a reason, they are not just arbitrary. We might not like the gaudy sign that says "don't touch, high voltage", but it is there for a reason. I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as pure vision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to be enlightenment. If you are a monk and cause others to fall from their path, that can have negative consequences as well. Welcome to high voltage cause-&-effect. :-) And welcome to being limited by what you choose to believe. :-) IME the vows represent a transcendental morality, that is they reflect important elements that can help or hinder realization which are not obvious "on the surface". That's the only reason they are of any value. They really are specific to the practice we're talking about and if one has questions, one should ask their teacher. They'd be glad to explain why this is so and give examples. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 12, 2006, at 9:50 PM, Patrick Gillam wrote: I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as pure vision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to be enlightenment. Vaj, I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate on this a bit. I can see how seeing one's lover as the Deity would indicate a lofty level of awareness, but I don't see how having sex without that vision would affect one's awakening either way. Without breaking any vows I think it's safe to say that since you need to perfect the generation stage before perfecting a completion stage practice, like consort practice. One should have perfected their generation stage practice which means the seed, the bija, has become the tree and one can see the world as emptiness-as-form: pure appearance. If you cannot or do not, both of you, what are you discriminating in the practice? The idea is to discriminate the finest Clear Light: Wisdom discriminating Emptiness in a way virutally impossible to discriminate in any other manner. That will bring you to full Buddhahood very quickly. So what if, as you suggest, it is done from the POV of non-Wisdom trying to look at emptiness? You would have a different result which would not be Buddhahood.Some people are suggesting that in order for a monk to do this practice, s/he should be a Stream Enterer, that is s/he should be established in the first permanent realization stage--that way there can be no "fall". It does appear one of the lamas who responded to GMR's rather public announcement mentioned the criteria for the practice and it was mentioned that such a student would be asked by his guru to perform certain specific siddhis, e.g. a magical display, to demonstrate that the stage is actually present. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It has nothing to do with rules per se but those activities that will > support enlightened activity and realization. The vows are there for > a reason, they are not just arbitrary. We might not like the gaudy > sign that says "don't touch, high voltage", but it is there for a > reason. I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as pure > vision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to be > enlightenment. If you are a monk and cause others to fall from their > path, that can have negative consequences as well. > > Welcome to high voltage cause-&-effect. :-) And welcome to being limited by what you choose to believe. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- Vaj wrote: > > I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as pure > vision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to be > enlightenment. Vaj, I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate on this a bit. I can see how seeing one's lover as the Deity would indicate a lofty level of awareness, but I don't see how having sex without that vision would affect one's awakening either way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 12, 2006, at 1:18 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact he is a monk and has not disrobed. However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the creation stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what happens there. I don't doubt that it is considered controversial. I just find it amusing that so much spiritual thought is tied up in aversion, whether aversion to the qualities of our finite humanity or aversion to unorthodoxy. I'm with Alex here. I just find it tremendously amusing, both that people have this entire set of orthodox "rules and regs" that they care about, and that the same people who create such "rules and regs" manage to come up with "exceptions" to them for whenever they're needed. :-) It has nothing to do with rules per se but those activities that will support enlightened activity and realization. The vows are there for a reason, they are not just arbitrary. We might not like the gaudy sign that says "don't touch, high voltage", but it is there for a reason. I mean ultimately if you cannot perceive your consort as pure vision, i.e. as the Deity, the result is NOT going to be enlightenment. If you are a monk and cause others to fall from their path, that can have negative consequences as well.Welcome to high voltage cause-&-effect. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 12, 2006, at 1:04 PM, Alex Stanley wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Alex Stanley wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:One of the primary teachers, Geshe Michael Roach, has declared that he has taken a (sexual) consort. He has also claimed a certain degree of realization. Quelle horreur! Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact he is a monk and has not disrobed. However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the creation stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what happens there. I don't doubt that it is considered controversial. I just find it amusing that so much spiritual thought is tied up in aversion, whether aversion to the qualities of our finite humanity or aversion to unorthodoxy. In this case the real controversy, if there really is one, is that someone who could have to potential to deliver thousands of people from suffering could potentially also have the opposite effect or much, much worse. Most anuttara-tantric practitioners are going to be well aware of the qualifications to actually undergo sex practice, so that's less the issue here. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact > > > he is a monk and has not disrobed. > > > > > > However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the > > > creation > > > stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure > > > vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what > > > happens there. > > > > I don't doubt that it is considered controversial. I just find it > > amusing that so much spiritual thought is tied up in aversion, > > whether aversion to the qualities of our finite humanity or > > aversion to unorthodoxy. > > I'm with Alex here. I just find it tremendously amusing, > both that people have this entire set of orthodox "rules > and regs" that they care about, and that the same people > who create such "rules and regs" manage to come up with > "exceptions" to them for whenever they're needed. :-) > Yeah, that sh*t really gets in the way, or it did for me anyway. One of the things I recall when I learned TM was that I was told it was compatible with any lifestyle, which I have then proceeded to exploit completely. I remember many instances where I have done stuff purely because I wanted to, even though it went against some guideline about gaining enlightenment. What I found was that overcoming the aversion actually increased my freedom, inner and outer, rather than constraining it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact > > > he is a monk and has not disrobed. > > > > > > However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the > > > creation > > > stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure > > > vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what > > > happens there. > > > > I don't doubt that it is considered controversial. I just find it > > amusing that so much spiritual thought is tied up in aversion, > > whether aversion to the qualities of our finite humanity or > > aversion to unorthodoxy. > > I'm with Alex here. I just find it tremendously amusing, > both that people have this entire set of orthodox "rules > and regs" that they care about, and that the same people > who create such "rules and regs" manage to come up with > "exceptions" to them for whenever they're needed. :-) Ah, and that sounds so even more profound coming from one who is beyond rules, making them, imposting them, living them. (Oh, btw, could you review the "laughing at, laughing with" rules again? I get confused by all of them.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
> > Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact > > he is a monk and has not disrobed. > > > > However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the > > creation > > stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure > > vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what > > happens there. > > I don't doubt that it is considered controversial. I just find it > amusing that so much spiritual thought is tied up in aversion, > whether aversion to the qualities of our finite humanity or > aversion to unorthodoxy. I'm with Alex here. I just find it tremendously amusing, both that people have this entire set of orthodox "rules and regs" that they care about, and that the same people who create such "rules and regs" manage to come up with "exceptions" to them for whenever they're needed. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Alex Stanley wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> One of the primary teachers, Geshe Michael Roach, has declared > >> that he has taken a (sexual) consort. He has also claimed a > >> certain degree of realization. > >> > > > > Quelle horreur! > > Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact he is > a monk and has not disrobed. > > However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the creation > stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure > vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what > happens there. > I don't doubt that it is considered controversial. I just find it amusing that so much spiritual thought is tied up in aversion, whether aversion to the qualities of our finite humanity or aversion to unorthodoxy. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jan 12, 2006, at 12:07 PM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > on 1/12/06 10:57 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> > >> On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Alex Stanley wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > > One of the primary teachers, Geshe Michael Roach, has declared > > > that he has taken a (sexual) consort. He has also claimed a > > > certain degree of realization. > > >>> > >>> Quelle horreur! > >>> > >> > >> Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact he > >> is a monk and has not disrobed. > >> > >> However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the creation > >> stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure > >> vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what > >> happens there. > >> > > Maybe this excuses Maharishi's behavior? > > I don't believe M. was performing anuttara-tantra completion stage > practices. The consort would have to be doing the same, possess > similar realization, not just be a victim. Plus the buddhist guy is public about it, nothing secretive. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 12, 2006, at 12:07 PM, Rick Archer wrote:on 1/12/06 10:57 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: One of the primary teachers, Geshe Michael Roach, has declaredthat he has taken a (sexual) consort. He has also claimed acertain degree of realization.Quelle horreur!Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact he is a monk and has not disrobed.However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the creation stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what happens there.Maybe this excuses Maharishi’s behavior? I don't believe M. was performing anuttara-tantra completion stage practices. The consort would have to be doing the same, possess similar realization, not just be a victim. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University on 1/12/06 10:57 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Alex Stanley wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: One of the primary teachers, Geshe Michael Roach, has declared that he has taken a (sexual) consort. He has also claimed a certain degree of realization. Quelle horreur! Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact he is a monk and has not disrobed. However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the creation stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what happens there. Maybe this excuses Maharishi’s behavior? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:39 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: One of the primary teachers, Geshe Michael Roach, has declared that he has taken a (sexual) consort. He has also claimed a certain degree of realization. Quelle horreur! Well the reason there is a controversy has to do with the fact he is a monk and has not disrobed.However...for a yogin in this path if he has mastered the creation stage of meditation to the point where he no longer has impure vision, it's not a problem. It will be interesting to see what happens there. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > One of the primary teachers, Geshe Michael Roach, has declared > that he has taken a (sexual) consort. He has also claimed a > certain degree of realization. Quelle horreur! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
Would they need to seek anything else?If it is what it claims, there would not need to be anymore seeking, as it would contain the entire path. After obtaining stable experiences, they'd be able to teach on their own.On Jan 12, 2006, at 11:01 AM, uvulonicus wrote:perfect for the seeker addicted to seeking --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "The mission of Diamond Mountain is to provide all of the conditions, inside and outside of us, that we need to actually reach enlightenment, ourselves, before the day we die." Our mission at Diamond Mountain is to provide you with everything you need to lead a wise and good life, and to become nothing less than a being who can go to all worlds and serve all living creatures, all at once. To get you there, we take you through all the traditional training that a monk or yogi would get in a demanding, major monastery in Tibet or ancient India. http://diamondmtn.org/ http://diamondmtn.org/dmu/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightenment University
perfect for the seeker addicted to seeking --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "The mission of Diamond Mountain is to provide all of the conditions, > inside and outside of us, that we need to actually reach > enlightenment, ourselves, before the day we die." > > Our mission at Diamond Mountain is to provide you with everything you > need to lead a wise and good life, and to become nothing less than a > being who can go to all worlds and serve all living creatures, all at > once. To get you there, we take you through all the traditional > training that a monk or yogi would get in a demanding, major > monastery in Tibet or ancient India. > > > http://diamondmtn.org/ > > http://diamondmtn.org/dmu/ > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
