[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , TurquoiseB no_re...@...
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , It's just a ride
bill.hicks.all.a.ride@ wrote:
  
   I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
   every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
   they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA
   and are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my
   heresy to them. It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the
   Matrix. Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls. You
   no longer feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.
 
  And the further away you get the stranger it seems, until one
  day you run into an old friend and they'll say something like
  I got some nature support today and a shiver runs down the
  back of your neck. Was I ever really like this, you'll wonder.

 Get 32 years away from it, and there are no more
 shivers, 

Why do you post on FFL Turq? You are not interested in the stated topics
of this chat group.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@...
wrote:

 On Jan 28, 2010, at 6:07 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
  TM does not require a lifestyle change. It never did. I know many
people who got into CC or more just with TM (not even vegetarian, or
learning asanas, etc.)
  I personally, did not learn TM for TM, I wanted the sidhis from the
get-go. And it is fantastic !

 Hey off, if you want another set of em,

 you can have mine. :)

Haven't done them in years.

That's obvious.

:-)

OffWorld


 Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote:

 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Sal Sunshine salsunshine@
 wrote:
 
  On Jan 28, 2010, at 6:07 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
   TM does not require a lifestyle change. It never did. I know many
 people who got into CC or more just with TM (not even vegetarian, or
 learning asanas, etc.)
   I personally, did not learn TM for TM, I wanted the sidhis from the
 get-go. And it is fantastic !
 
  Hey off, if you want another set of em,
 
  you can have mine. :)
 
 Haven't done them in years.
 
 That's obvious.
 
 :-)
 
 OffWorld

HaHa ;-)
 
  Sal
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jan 30, 2010, at 6:51 AM, off_world_beings wrote:
  On Jan 28, 2010, at 6:07 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
   TM does not require a lifestyle change. It never did. I know many people 
   who got into CC or more just with TM (not even vegetarian, or learning 
   asanas, etc.) 
   I personally, did not learn TM for TM, I wanted the sidhis from the 
   get-go. And it is fantastic !
  
  Hey off, if you want another set of em, 
  
  you can have mine. :) 
 
 Haven't done them in years.
 
 That's obvious.
 
Good! :)  I'll take that as a compliment.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:

 Hugo:
  Feel free to write in and correct me with amazing 
  stories but I think it's kidology pure and simple, 
  I don't believe anyone ever got anything other than 
  a feeling of satisfaction via a placebo effect from 
  having yagyas done for them. And I know plenty who 
  have coughed up untold thousands for the pleasure. 
  Criminal.
  
 So, you want to bring criminal charges against the 
 Dalai Lama and every spiritual group on the planet.

Only the ones who makes profits out of it.

 Seems to me like they would have the right to whatever 
 they want to do with their time and money. 

I'm sure everyone is free to spend how they choose but
is it ethical to keep plugging iron-age delusions under
the guise of science?

But, it
 seems to really bother you. What's up with that?

Why doen't it bother everybody?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:04 PM, ruthsimplicity
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
  You may not answer me because you don't give a shit, but what is nice about 
  your program and what nice things do you think happen as a result?
 
 
 I have rounded for so long, meditated for so long, sponsor almost
 continuous yagnas, sponsor many CPs, have many advanced techniques.
 And unstressed out of my skull.  The result?  I have very clear
 experiences of the thousands of levels on the way down to TC.  Very
 clear TC (obviously a little bit of ego and waking state still there
 or I'd have no experience I could talk about.  I get very good hits on
 most all of my sutras.  Great depth during sutra practice.  I see that
 The Absolute actually is full of unmanifested things and events,
 seeds.  There's a fabric to the Absolute.  It's not just flat.  It's
 very full emptiness.
 
 Outside of activity?  Support of Nature, increasingly knowing who I
 am, joy inner and outer.  The ability to strike up a conversation with
 anybody on any subject.  Things are just nice.


Very nice :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[WillyTex]

  So, you want to bring criminal charges against the 
  Dalai Lama and every spiritual group on the planet.
 
Hugo:
 Only the ones who makes profits out of it.
 
The last time I checked, the Dalai Lama was the head of
a rather large non-profit institution. I'd say it would
look pretty radical to arrest him - isn't he a recipient
of the Nobel Peace Award?

  Seems to me like they would have the right to whatever 
  they want to do with their time and money. 
 
 I'm sure everyone is free to spend how they choose but
 is it ethical to keep plugging iron-age delusions under
 the guise of science?
 
So, now it's not a criminal case, but a religious ethical 
case that you object to. Are you saying you're opposed to 
freedom of religion? If so, I hope you're never in charge
of anything!

 But, it seems to really bother you. What's up with that?
 
  Why doen't it bother everybody?
 
So, you want to repeal the First Amendment and send all
the spiritual teachers to prison? Good grief, Hugo - look
at what you're saying! Maybe you should stop and think 
before charging others with criminal acts. Is this what
scientists think? God help us if Barack Obama is replaced
with a scientist!

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is 
part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the 
Congress from making laws respecting an establishment of 
religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, 
infringing on the freedom of speech and infringing on the 
freedom of the press...

First Amendment:
http://tinyurl.com/6as4v

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:

 
 
   So, you want to bring criminal charges against the 
   Dalai Lama and every spiritual group on the planet.
  
 Hugo:
  Only the ones who makes profits out of it.
  
 The last time I checked, the Dalai Lama was the head of
 a rather large non-profit institution. I'd say it would
 look pretty radical to arrest him - isn't he a recipient
 of the Nobel Peace Award?

   Seems to me like they would have the right to whatever 
   they want to do with their time and money. 
  
  I'm sure everyone is free to spend how they choose but
  is it ethical to keep plugging iron-age delusions under
  the guise of science?
  
 So, now it's not a criminal case, but a religious ethical 
 case that you object to. Are you saying you're opposed to 
 freedom of religion? If so, I hope you're never in charge
 of anything!
 
  But, it seems to really bother you. What's up with that?
  
   Why doen't it bother everybody?
  
 So, you want to repeal the First Amendment and send all
 the spiritual teachers to prison? Good grief, Hugo - look
 at what you're saying! Maybe you should stop and think 
 before charging others with criminal acts. Is this what
 scientists think? God help us if Barack Obama is replaced
 with a scientist!
 
 The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is 
 part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the 
 Congress from making laws respecting an establishment of 
 religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, 
 infringing on the freedom of speech and infringing on the 
 freedom of the press...
 
 First Amendment:
 http://tinyurl.com/6as4v


I love this place!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:
 
 
  I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
  every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
  they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
  are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
  them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
  Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
  feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.
 
  And the further away you get the stranger it seems, until one
  day you run into an old friend and they'll say something like
  I got some nature support today and a shiver runs down the
  back of your neck. Was I ever really like this, you'll wonder.
 
  TM teachers get can shocked when you reject the knowledge but
  real friends don't care if you don't share their beliefs anymore, would you?
 
 
 Right now it's not strange.  It was ever strange.  The year of this,
 Hail President Despot, Maharishi This, That and The Other (Trademark
 symbol here), phony academic degrees, phony exalted titles.  Rush to
 build this forest academy but we won't fund it and we'll let it rot
 into the ground.   Governors (of which states?), Ministers (of who's
 cabinet?), phony countries, it's the numbers that count.  Except that
 one sidha counts for 100 unless there are N then it's N^2, but if it's
 a pandit, then you have to solve a polynomial.  Now it's neutral.  As
 in things may come, things may go but I go on forever.
 
 Except for one guy who comes to IA from Europe but only goes to the
 Dome twice, max and does a quick 20 minute meditation in his suite
 otherwise, my friends are trying to save me from my heresy.  It's
 obviously unstressing.  Perhaps if I spoke with a sidhi administrator.
  My doshas aren't balanced.   If only I'd go back to reading my pulse
 and eat what my pulse tells me to eat.  It's a phase.  It's a reaction
 to too much, too fast.  It's a reaction to my reporting that so much
 of the world has fallen away, leaving just me.  That's obviously just
 a sign of unstressing.

Unstressing? Interesting concept that became too much of a 
catch-all excuse used by people in the TMO to dismiss anyone
with an opinion that doesn't fit.  

I would discuss many valid problems I had with the knowledge-
mostly MMYs contradictions and inconsistencies- the basic 
answer I got is that MMY is living life at the home of the 
laws of nature and can see when they change so the movement 
changes it's focus appropriately if that means dropping a 
project they started two minutes ago so be it. Needless to say
I thought it a horseshit answer. And coupled with the (ahem) 
shaky foundations of the physics, the surreal nonsense of king Tony's 
discoveries and all the other unproven beliefs, therapies etc. I thought I'd 
be better off out of it. I don't think any 
of it stands any real scrutiny. It's all too flimsy to be The 
Truth and surely the Truth should be able to withstand a bit of 
stick but that isn't how the TMO works. I know, I did the Total Knowledge 
course on MOU when it started. Total Unproven Quackery 
more like. You need space from the TMO to get perspective and see
how strange it all is.


 The strangest was an email from my yagna group in India that a
 friend had donated money for a yagna with a sankalpa of pulling me
 back into the fold.
 
 These not be friends, methinks.

Don't get me started. I think yagyas are a criminal rip-off. I know
so many people who have spent so much on thses prayers to the gods.
I wouldn't mind if they'd admit that's what they were but no, it's a 
technology of natural law. Bullshit.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[It's just a ride]

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 4:06 AM, Hugo richardhughes...@hotmail.com wrote:


 You need space from the TMO to get perspective and see
 how strange it all is.



That's what kept me so loyal of a TB for so many years.  I would go
to a course, have bullshit up to here.  I'd go home, jump into life.
I'd build up dissonance, complain to a few choice friends about the
craziness of it all, then in a year or two go back to a course.  I
thought I was unfortunate to be in an area where there's not been an
active TM Center/Capital of the Age of Enlightment/Raja Headquarters
year after year.  The fact is, it's the lack of a TM Center and the
previous lack of the TMO all over the Internet that kept me loyal to
the TMO.  I could do my program, distance myself from the craziness.
I recently joined remotely the activities of the Hindu Temple of
Fairfield.  When I get the newsletters of upcoming pujas, archanas and
homas, there's ever a mention of Maharishi.  I just blow those
mentions of Maharishi off.  To me the only thing that matters with
Maharishi is the connections I made with him on residence courses and
later early preparatory courses when the knowledge portion of the
program was playing and discussing the Humbuldt tapes.

The yagna group I belong to in India is populated by former Maharishi
pundits, some of the many Maharishi cast offs.  It's OK to gush about
Maharishi, but you don't get an answer back from them mentioning
Maharishi.  They are doing their own thing.  And yes, they admit and
fully publicize that they are offering prayers to the gods.  Are they
a rip off, considering what the rupee buys in India versus the dollars
I send?  Not really.  There are North American and European liaisons
who have to offer the Internet access, do the bookkeeping, the
publicity around the world, be the frontmen.  That costs money.
Tain't nobody making a killing in my yagna group even though the
nearly monthly personal planetary yagnas cost $650.   What matters to
me is that I receive continuing benefit from the yagnas.  I am the
sole judge and jury here.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[mainstream20016]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:

 Don't get me started. I think yagyas are a criminal rip-off. I know
 so many people who have spent so much on thses prayers to the gods.
 I wouldn't mind if they'd admit that's what they were but no, it's a 
 technology of natural law. Bullshit.


The TMO Yagya program,  highest profit margin product of the TMO ( the number 
and scale of yagyas recommended determined much more by the financial resources 
of the applicant than his birth chart ) is the antithesis of the idea of 
personal evolution through personal experience.  It seems that the long-term 
plan of the TMO at the time of MMY's passing was to maximize the yagya program 
as opposed to maximizing the teaching of the TM technique to individuals. 
The TMO's continued commitment to the development of the Brahmasthan of India's 
vast landscape of thousands of partially completed buildings necessarily limits 
the TMO's meager effort to teach the TM technique. The Brahmasthan of India's 
present and future drain of resources will send the TMO into obscurity.
  
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[It's just a ride]

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 6:37 AM, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com
wrote:


 The TMO Yagya program,  highest profit margin product of the TMO ( the
number and scale of yagyas recommended determined much more by the financial
resources of the applicant than his birth chart ) is the antithesis of the
idea of personal evolution through personal experience.  It seems that the
long-term plan of the TMO at the time of MMY's passing was to maximize the
yagya program as opposed to maximizing the teaching of the TM technique to
individuals.
 The TMO's continued commitment to the development of the Brahmasthan of
India's vast landscape of thousands of partially completed buildings
necessarily limits the TMO's meager effort to teach the TM technique. The
Brahmasthan of India's present and future drain of resources will send the
TMO into obscurity.

Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

I have never sponsored a Maharishi yagna.  I started off with temple pujas
and homas in India around 2000 then went to Ben's group, then found my home
in a group in Rourkela, Orissa, India.  I tried other groups of former
Maharishi pundits, tried their yagyas, felt nothing.  The group I sponsor
performs yagnas which put me into another universe.  I so very strongly feel
the presence of the deities, it's much more powerful than being on a big
rounding course.  My TM/TM Sidhi program during these yagnas is amazing.

Sometimes I can sleep forever, sometimes I have wretched insomnia, as the
yagnas take place during normal business hours, only offset by 12 hours, so
they happen in my evening/night.  I've been with this group for years.

During the past 6 months, I've felt the presence of the deities during the
gratis group yagnas offered to regular sponsors.  Very, very powereful.

I am paying the princely sum of around USD 0.90 per pundit hour for these
yagnas.  Some of that money goes for administration/money transfer (I mail
checks to India from my Bank of America checking account), Internet
communication, shipping prasadam, some goes to the pundits, some goes to
feed and educate the poor, considered to be by the pundit group a necessary
and integral part of the yagna, and some money goes towards the group
yagnas.

-- 
Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 4:06 AM, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:
 
 
  You need space from the TMO to get perspective and see
  how strange it all is.
 
 
 
 That's what kept me so loyal of a TB for so many years.  I would go
 to a course, have bullshit up to here.  I'd go home, jump into life.
 I'd build up dissonance, complain to a few choice friends about the
 craziness of it all, then in a year or two go back to a course.  I
 thought I was unfortunate to be in an area where there's not been an
 active TM Center/Capital of the Age of Enlightment/Raja Headquarters
 year after year.  The fact is, it's the lack of a TM Center and the
 previous lack of the TMO all over the Internet that kept me loyal to
 the TMO.  I could do my program, distance myself from the craziness.
 I recently joined remotely the activities of the Hindu Temple of
 Fairfield.  When I get the newsletters of upcoming pujas, archanas and
 homas, there's ever a mention of Maharishi.  I just blow those
 mentions of Maharishi off.  To me the only thing that matters with
 Maharishi is the connections I made with him on residence courses and
 later early preparatory courses when the knowledge portion of the
 program was playing and discussing the Humbuldt tapes.
 
 The yagna group I belong to in India is populated by former Maharishi
 pundits, some of the many Maharishi cast offs.  It's OK to gush about
 Maharishi, but you don't get an answer back from them mentioning
 Maharishi.  They are doing their own thing.  And yes, they admit and
 fully publicize that they are offering prayers to the gods.  Are they
 a rip off, considering what the rupee buys in India versus the dollars
 I send?  Not really.  There are North American and European liaisons
 who have to offer the Internet access, do the bookkeeping, the
 publicity around the world, be the frontmen.  That costs money.
 Tain't nobody making a killing in my yagna group even though the
 nearly monthly personal planetary yagnas cost $650.   What matters to
 me is that I receive continuing benefit from the yagnas.  I am the
 sole judge and jury here.

Good for you, I've never found it convincing. Maybe you could do
one for me and I'll tell if I notice a difference ;-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[WillyTex]

  Don't get me started. I think yagyas are a 
  criminal rip-off...
 
Main:
 The TMO Yagya program...is the antithesis of 
 the idea of personal evolution through personal
 experience...

You might as well have Tibetan Buddhism banned
and have the Dalai Lama arrested for fraud! 

Get a grip - every spiritual tradition has a 
similar process for praying for the benefit of 
the individual. 

Millions of people world-wide pray every day in 
order to help people. It's not at all unusual 
to find large groups in group prayer. Yagyas 
are probably man's oldest form of ritual worship.

In fact, every act we perform is a 'yagya' - 
it's just that when ritual acts are performed 
from the transcendental level, the actions are 
more in tune with Natural Law. 

Actions, in all cases, are not really performed 
by individuals - actions are the result the 
constituents of nature - the gunas. It just 
*appears* to be a yagya based on the level of 
perception of the recipient.

The saturation point for teaching individuals 
how to do 'TM' was probably reached back in the 
1970s. In this age, according to the Vedas, it
is not possible for many people to practice 
Yoga with much success - yoga is too esoteric.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:

 
 
   Don't get me started. I think yagyas are a 
   criminal rip-off...
  
 Main:
  The TMO Yagya program...is the antithesis of 
  the idea of personal evolution through personal
  experience...
 
 You might as well have Tibetan Buddhism banned
 and have the Dalai Lama arrested for fraud! 
 
 Get a grip - every spiritual tradition has a 
 similar process for praying for the benefit of 
 the individual. 

How many others charge a fortune for the process?

How many others claim it's based on scientific 
principles?

Why don't MUM ever try to test whether it actually
works or not? Should be easy, simply find someone with
a chronic health problem and do a Marshy health yagya,
only $5,000. At that price they should be stunningly 
effective.

Feel free to write in and correct me with amazing 
stories but I think it's kidology pure and simple, 
I don't believe anyone ever got anything other than 
a feeling of satisfaction via a placebo effect from 
having yagyas done for them. And I know plenty who 
have coughed up untold thousands for the pleasure. 
Criminal.

 
 In fact, every act we perform is a 'yagya' - 
 it's just that when ritual acts are performed 
 from the transcendental level, the actions are 
 more in tune with Natural Law. 

We've all read the brochure, how about some evidence.
 
 Actions, in all cases, are not really performed 
 by individuals - actions are the result the 
 constituents of nature - the gunas. It just 
 *appears* to be a yagya based on the level of 
 perception of the recipient.
 
 The saturation point for teaching individuals 
 how to do 'TM' was probably reached back in the 
 1970s. In this age, according to the Vedas, it
 is not possible for many people to practice 
 Yoga with much success - yoga is too esoteric.

Is this an excuse for something?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[WillyTex]

Hugo:
 Feel free to write in and correct me with amazing 
 stories but I think it's kidology pure and simple, 
 I don't believe anyone ever got anything other than 
 a feeling of satisfaction via a placebo effect from 
 having yagyas done for them. And I know plenty who 
 have coughed up untold thousands for the pleasure. 
 Criminal.
 
So, you want to bring criminal charges against the 
Dalai Lama and every spiritual group on the planet.
Seems to me like they would have the right to whatever 
they want to do with their time and money. But, it
seems to really bother you. What's up with that?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , It's just a ride
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 6:37 AM, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@...
 wrote:
 

  The TMO Yagya program,  highest profit margin product of the TMO (
the
 number and scale of yagyas recommended determined much more by the
financial
 resources of the applicant than his birth chart ) is the antithesis of
the
 idea of personal evolution through personal experience.  It seems that
the
 long-term plan of the TMO at the time of MMY's passing was to maximize
the
 yagya program as opposed to maximizing the teaching of the TM
technique to
 individuals.
  The TMO's continued commitment to the development of the Brahmasthan
of
 India's vast landscape of thousands of partially completed buildings
 necessarily limits the TMO's meager effort to teach the TM technique.
The
 Brahmasthan of India's present and future drain of resources will send
the
 TMO into obscurity.

 Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

 I have never sponsored a Maharishi yagna.  I started off with temple
pujas
 and homas in India around 2000 then went to Ben's group, then found my
home
 in a group in Rourkela, Orissa, India.  I tried other groups of former
 Maharishi pundits, tried their yagyas, felt nothing.  The group I
sponsor
 performs yagnas which put me into another universe.  I so very
strongly feel
 the presence of the deities, it's much more powerful than being on a
big
 rounding course.  My TM/TM Sidhi program during these yagnas is
amazing.

 Sometimes I can sleep forever, sometimes I have wretched insomnia, as
the
 yagnas take place during normal business hours, only offset by 12
hours, so
 they happen in my evening/night.  I've been with this group for years.

 During the past 6 months, I've felt the presence of the deities during
the
 gratis group yagnas offered to regular sponsors.  Very, very
powereful.

 I am paying the princely sum of around USD 0.90 per pundit hour for
these
 yagnas.

So you are not only using slave labor you insult them by making sure
they are always poor.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , mainstream20016
mainstream20...@... wrote:



 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
wrote:

  Don't get me started. I think yagyas are a criminal rip-off. I know
  so many people who have spent so much on thses prayers to the gods.
  I wouldn't mind if they'd admit that's what they were but no, it's a
technology of natural law. Bullshit.
 

 The TMO Yagya program,  highest profit margin product of the TMO ( the
number and scale of yagyas recommended determined much more by the
financial resources of the applicant than his birth chart ) is the
antithesis of the idea of personal evolution through personal
experience.  It seems that the long-term plan of the TMO at the time of
MMY's passing was to maximize the yagya program as opposed to maximizing
the teaching of the TM technique to individuals.

As far as I recall, Maharishi told them to do that a long time ago. He
said time and time again that the priority was a large group of pundits
in India and then more large groups of sidhas around the world. Teaching
TM at centers will only increase now when consciousness is increased by
these groups. It is Maharishi that told them to do it. Stop blaming it
on The They

I believe that that was his philosophy of at LEAST the last 10 years of
his life.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , ruthsimplicity no_re...@...
wrote:



 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , ruthsimplicity no_reply@
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , nablusoss1008 no_reply@
wrote:
   
  snip
Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands
of people, it's due to lack of good experiences during
meditation usually because of an undisciplined lifestyle.
That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately
the most common.
  
   I appreciate your perspective on this.  But TM or even the
   Siddhis were never promoted as something that required a
   disciplined lifestyle. Or do you just mean the discipline
   to meditate twice a day?
 
  Get enough rest and exercise, eat right, etc. Standard
  recommendations for healthy living (in addition to regular
  practice, of course). You must have had a very different
  TM course than I did if you never encountered them.

 All I said was that TM and the siddhis were not promoted as requiring
a disciplined lifestyle.   Of course, the TMO on www.tm.org
http://www.tm.org  still promotes basic TM  as not requiring any
lifestyle changes at all.  Specifically, The Transcendental Meditation
technique is not a religion or philosophy and involves no change in
lifestyle.

TM does not require a lifestyle change. It never did. I know many people
who got into CC or more just with TM (not even vegetarian, or learning
asanas, etc.)
I personally, did not learn TM for TM, I wanted the sidhis from the
get-go. And it is fantastic !

OffWorld

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jan 28, 2010, at 6:07 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
 TM does not require a lifestyle change. It never did. I know many people who 
 got into CC or more just with TM (not even vegetarian, or learning asanas, 
 etc.) 
 I personally, did not learn TM for TM, I wanted the sidhis from the get-go. 
 And it is fantastic !

Hey off, if you want another set of em, 

you can have mine. :)  Haven't done
them in years.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickm...@... wrote:

 I'm circulating this because it's a way of solving the fundamental 
 problem of society - ignorance of natural law - through 
 consciousness-education for enlightenment.-Dick

The fundamental problem of society is not believing the TMO's
world view? You've really no idea how scary this is.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[seekliberation]

I think for the sake of the psychological health of many in the TMO, it would 
be better for it to fail and someone else with a similar education (Ravi 
Shankar  Eckart Tolle come to my mind) to gain the favor of the government.  

I have family and friends who have waited until they're 40-50 yrs old to make 
anything happen in their lives.  It's always because they feel that something 
magic is coming right around the corner, and therefore there is no need to 
engage in the lowly behavior of getting a job and working for a living.  All it 
takes for some people i've met is just a small signal of success, no matter how 
insignificant, and it is used as an excuse to avoid reality for just 2 or 3 
more years.  Before you know it they're a senior citizen, no skills or 
experience, no chance of retirement.

I can see a lot of individuals in the TMO using any government attention as an 
excuse to do the same thing.  Although it would be very inspiring to me if the 
US govt did start implementing TM into certain areas like military, prisons, 
and education,  I would still fear so much for the manic state of mind that 
could result in the TMO if these goals were actually met.  

I do have to admit, I haven't interacted much with other organizations similar 
to TMO.  For all I know, they have the same problem too.  

seekliberation  




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickmays@ wrote:
 
  I'm circulating this because it's a way of solving the fundamental 
  problem of society - ignorance of natural law - through 
  consciousness-education for enlightenment.-Dick
 
 The fundamental problem of society is not believing the TMO's
 world view? You've really no idea how scary this is.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Doug]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberat...@... 
wrote:

 I think for the sake of the psychological health of many in the TMO, it would 
 be better for it to fail and someone else with a similar education (Ravi 
 Shankar  Eckart Tolle come to my mind) to gain the favor of the government.  


Yup, I'd vote for the secular guy at UCLA.
Daniel Siegel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr4Od7kqDT8


 
 I have family and friends who have waited until they're 40-50 yrs old to make 
 anything happen in their lives.  It's always because they feel that something 
 magic is coming right around the corner, and therefore there is no need to 
 engage in the lowly behavior of getting a job and working for a living.  All 
 it takes for some people i've met is just a small signal of success, no 
 matter how insignificant, and it is used as an excuse to avoid reality for 
 just 2 or 3 more years.  Before you know it they're a senior citizen, no 
 skills or experience, no chance of retirement.
 
 I can see a lot of individuals in the TMO using any government attention as 
 an excuse to do the same thing.  Although it would be very inspiring to me if 
 the US govt did start implementing TM into certain areas like military, 
 prisons, and education,  I would still fear so much for the manic state of 
 mind that could result in the TMO if these goals were actually met.  
 
 I do have to admit, I haven't interacted much with other organizations 
 similar to TMO.  For all I know, they have the same problem too.  
 
 seekliberation  
 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickmays@ wrote:
  
   I'm circulating this because it's a way of solving the fundamental 
   problem of society - ignorance of natural law - through 
   consciousness-education for enlightenment.-Dick
  
  The fundamental problem of society is not believing the TMO's
  world view? You've really no idea how scary this is.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[seekliberation]

I just started watching that u-tube video.  It's taking a while to download, 
but it's got me hooked...the whole dillema of why modern psychology fails 
to define what the 'mind' is, and what a 'healthy' mind is too.  I'll let it 
upload for a while and finish it later.

thanks for sending the link

seekliberation.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Doug dhamiltony...@... wrote:

 
 Yup, I'd vote for the secular guy at UCLA.
 Daniel Siegel.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr4Od7kqDT8
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[It's just a ride]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Hugo richardhughes...@hotmail.com wrote:


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickm...@... wrote:

 I'm circulating this because it's a way of solving the fundamental
 problem of society - ignorance of natural law - through
 consciousness-education for enlightenment.-Dick

 The fundamental problem of society is not believing the TMO's
 world view? You've really no idea how scary this is.


OMG!  A year ago, despite my man heresies, I saw nothing wrong with
this.  Of course Maharishi's every message, the TMO's every message
made perfect sense, even if I couldn't find the sense in it.  I was a
pod person.

I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 OMG!  A year ago, despite my man heresies, I saw nothing wrong with
 this.  Of course Maharishi's every message, the TMO's every message
 made perfect sense, even if I couldn't find the sense in it.  I was a
 pod person.
 
 I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
 every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
 they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
 are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
 them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
 Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
 feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.



May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?  

I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give it up 
and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more sudden 
aha moment.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote:
 May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?  
 
 I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give it 
 up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more sudden 
 aha moment.

Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands of people, it's due to 
lack of good experiences during meditation usually because of an undisciplined 
lifestyle. 
That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately the most common.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
  May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?  
  
  I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give 
  it up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more 
  sudden aha moment.
 
 Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands of people, it's due 
 to lack of good experiences during meditation usually because of an 
 undisciplined lifestyle. 
 That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately the most common.



Can you define undisciplined for us?

The promise of TM is rapid progress to enlightenment 
*without* changing your lifestyle or adopting special 
diets etc. 

Simple effortless - 20 mins twice a day.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[It's just a ride]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:01 AM, ruthsimplicity
no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
 bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 OMG!  A year ago, despite my man heresies, I saw nothing wrong with
 this.  Of course Maharishi's every message, the TMO's every message
 made perfect sense, even if I couldn't find the sense in it.  I was a
 pod person.

 I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
 every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
 they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
 are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
 them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
 Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
 feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.



 May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?

 I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give it 
 up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more sudden 
 aha moment.


Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

Self-sufficiency.  I used to be very sold out to this group.  It's
like every post had to be responded to.  I had to set people straight.
 Then I set up spam filters so that most of the major contributors
who rubbed me the wrong way I didn't see.  At first, massive
withdrawal symptoms.  Now, every once in a while I go into my spam
folder and read things from those who are filtered out.  Interesting
reading, but no emotional impact.   Curtis has returned.  We have
nothing in common, and I don't care about the things he cares about.
He's going to get a filter.

Now I didn't like Rick tearing into me about my statements on
Wednesday night Satsung so I fired a salvo back at him.  He dropped
it.  What I wanted.  I don't think this was a sign of having to set
people right.  I stated how bored I was at Satsung, how boring the
people were, Rick fired back untrue and not nice things that if true,
were best kept private.   He used my post as a way to plug Satsung.
Fine.  I slammed him back and that stopped the thread, El H-Um du
Allah.

I felt myself getting distanced from the TMO and from my NLP and IA
friends.  I figured they were just too sold out to a dream.  Last few
go arounds on IA, I played let's pretend.  I pretended to be
interested in it all.  Once again, withdrawal.  Painful withdrawal.
But I found answers within myself.  I felt that doing my program was
nice, but didn't do it anymore because of some perceived deficiency.
That perceived deficiency was a reaction to cognitive dissonance, I'd
reckon.

I am happy within myself.  Maharishi told my group that we were about
to get the sidhis and that would make us self-sufficient.  Well, it
appears that happened.  I no longer feel pain if I see a picture of
the rajas with their Burger Boy gold foil hats.  I no longer feel
anything except well, that's strange.

I joined the Buddha at the Gas Pump Yahoo! group.  There were all
those shit eating, 15 page, I'm wonderful, you're wonderful,
everything is wonderful, I just did a release upon my computer and it
arose from the ashes and is suddenly working again posts.  My reaction
was not this again.  I quickly delete those posts and I'm
identifying the email addresses and handles of those who gush (which
might be every poster).  Those email addresses and handles go into my
spam filters daily.  Perhaps eventually I'll get no mail from Buddha
at the Gas Pump because I've created a filter from each of the
posters.

As I compose this, Gmail tells me that a new message in this thread
has arrived from Nabby.  Most likely a response to the post you
responded to, RD.  His post is going into my spam folder.  And I don't
feel the loss, I don't feel the pinch, I haven't got time for the
pain.

Two songs come to mind.  One is I haven't got time for the pain.
The other is Meatloaf's Two Out of Three Ain't Bad.  'Cept in this
case it's zero out of three.  I don't want you, I don't need you and
there ain't no way I'm ever going to love you.  Wait, make that three
songs.  The third is Respect.  Except I'm not demanding respect, I'm
granting it to myself.



-- 
Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
  May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?  
  
  I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give 
  it up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more 
  sudden aha moment.
 
 Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands of people, it's due 
 to lack of good experiences during meditation usually because of an 
 undisciplined lifestyle. 
 That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately the most common.


I appreciate your perspective on this.  But TM or even the Siddhis were never 
promoted as something that required a disciplined lifestyle. Or do you just 
mean the discipline to meditate twice a day? 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:01 AM, ruthsimplicity
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
  bill.hicks.all.a.ride@ wrote:
 
  OMG!  A year ago, despite my man heresies, I saw nothing wrong with
  this.  Of course Maharishi's every message, the TMO's every message
  made perfect sense, even if I couldn't find the sense in it.  I was a
  pod person.
 
  I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
  every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
  they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
  are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
  them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
  Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
  feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.
 
 
 
  May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?
 
  I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give 
  it up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more 
  sudden aha moment.
 
 
 Peace be upon those who follow guidance.
 
 Self-sufficiency.  I used to be very sold out to this group.  It's
 like every post had to be responded to.  I had to set people straight.
  Then I set up spam filters so that most of the major contributors
 who rubbed me the wrong way I didn't see.  At first, massive
 withdrawal symptoms.  Now, every once in a while I go into my spam
 folder and read things from those who are filtered out.  Interesting
 reading, but no emotional impact.   Curtis has returned.  We have
 nothing in common, and I don't care about the things he cares about.
 He's going to get a filter.
 
 Now I didn't like Rick tearing into me about my statements on
 Wednesday night Satsung so I fired a salvo back at him.  He dropped
 it.  What I wanted.  I don't think this was a sign of having to set
 people right.  I stated how bored I was at Satsung, how boring the
 people were, Rick fired back untrue and not nice things that if true,
 were best kept private.   He used my post as a way to plug Satsung.
 Fine.  I slammed him back and that stopped the thread, El H-Um du
 Allah.
 
 I felt myself getting distanced from the TMO and from my NLP and IA
 friends.  I figured they were just too sold out to a dream.  Last few
 go arounds on IA, I played let's pretend.  I pretended to be
 interested in it all.  Once again, withdrawal.  Painful withdrawal.
 But I found answers within myself.  I felt that doing my program was
 nice, but didn't do it anymore because of some perceived deficiency.
 That perceived deficiency was a reaction to cognitive dissonance, I'd
 reckon.
 
 I am happy within myself.  Maharishi told my group that we were about
 to get the sidhis and that would make us self-sufficient.  Well, it
 appears that happened.  I no longer feel pain if I see a picture of
 the rajas with their Burger Boy gold foil hats.  I no longer feel
 anything except well, that's strange.
 
 I joined the Buddha at the Gas Pump Yahoo! group.  There were all
 those shit eating, 15 page, I'm wonderful, you're wonderful,
 everything is wonderful, I just did a release upon my computer and it
 arose from the ashes and is suddenly working again posts.  My reaction
 was not this again.  I quickly delete those posts and I'm
 identifying the email addresses and handles of those who gush (which
 might be every poster).  Those email addresses and handles go into my
 spam filters daily.  Perhaps eventually I'll get no mail from Buddha
 at the Gas Pump because I've created a filter from each of the
 posters.
 
 As I compose this, Gmail tells me that a new message in this thread
 has arrived from Nabby.  Most likely a response to the post you
 responded to, RD.  His post is going into my spam folder.  And I don't
 feel the loss, I don't feel the pinch, I haven't got time for the
 pain.
 
 Two songs come to mind.  One is I haven't got time for the pain.
 The other is Meatloaf's Two Out of Three Ain't Bad.  'Cept in this
 case it's zero out of three.  I don't want you, I don't need you and
 there ain't no way I'm ever going to love you.  Wait, make that three
 songs.  The third is Respect.  Except I'm not demanding respect, I'm
 granting it to myself.
 
 
 
 -- 
 Peace be upon those who follow guidance.



Thank you for your thoughtful answer.  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  
snip
  Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands
  of people, it's due to lack of good experiences during
  meditation usually because of an undisciplined lifestyle. 
  That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately
  the most common.
 
 I appreciate your perspective on this.  But TM or even the
 Siddhis were never promoted as something that required a
 disciplined lifestyle. Or do you just mean the discipline
 to meditate twice a day?

Get enough rest and exercise, eat right, etc. Standard
recommendations for healthy living (in addition to regular
practice, of course). You must have had a very different
TM course than I did if you never encountered them.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
   May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?  
   
   I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give 
   it up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more 
   sudden aha moment.
  
  Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands of people, it's 
  due to lack of good experiences during meditation usually because of an 
  undisciplined lifestyle. 
  That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately the most common.
 
 
 I appreciate your perspective on this.  But TM or even the Siddhis were never 
 promoted as something that required a disciplined lifestyle. Or do you just 
 mean the discipline to meditate twice a day?

Or eating a huge meal minutes before you meditate. The outer pressures from for 
example spouses and children can take a huge toll unless one is disciplined. 
That's why being single usually, but not always, makes things easier.
If not disciplined small thing like overeating or not getting enough sleep will 
make experiences dull to the point when someone might think it's a waste of 
time to meditate or follow a time-consuming TM-Sidhi programme. The wast 
majority who drop out do so for these mundane reasons.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?  

I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to 
give it up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or 
a more sudden aha moment.
   
   Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands of people, it's 
   due to lack of good experiences during meditation usually because of an 
   undisciplined lifestyle. 
   That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately the most common.
  
  
  I appreciate your perspective on this.  But TM or even the Siddhis were 
  never promoted as something that required a disciplined lifestyle. Or do 
  you just mean the discipline to meditate twice a day?
 
 Or eating a huge meal minutes before you meditate. The outer pressures from 
 for example spouses and children can take a huge toll unless one is 
 disciplined. That's why being single usually, but not always, makes things 
 easier.
 If not disciplined small thing like overeating or not getting enough sleep 
 will make experiences dull to the point when someone might think it's a waste 
 of time to meditate or follow a time-consuming TM-Sidhi programme. The wast 
 majority who drop out do so for these mundane reasons.


I wonder what is the percentage of married vs. unmarried Invincible American 
course participants.  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[It's just a ride]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:11 AM, ruthsimplicity
no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
 bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

SNIP

 Two songs come to mind.  One is I haven't got time for the pain.
 The other is Meatloaf's Two Out of Three Ain't Bad.  'Cept in this
 case it's zero out of three.  I don't want you, I don't need you and
 there ain't no way I'm ever going to love you.  Wait, make that three
 songs.  The third is Respect.  Except I'm not demanding respect, I'm
 granting it to myself.



RD, re-reading my words I see ambiguity.  I have not stopped doing my
full TM-Sidhi program, including asanas, pranayama, meditating,
research into consciousnes, flying, Jaimini, listening to chanting I
can't mention, Sama and Rig Veda.  I just now do it for me, for my own
edification.  I'm trying to race towards a goal.  My goal, announced
many years ago at a preparatory course, was to meditate until I no
longer gave a shit.  I got flunked on that prep course for saying
that.  Machts nichts.  What matters to me is that I reached my goal
after all these years.  I no longer give a shit.  I do my program
because it's nice and nice things happen perhaps as a result of doing
my program.

I feel so free having thrown off the yoke of having to accept as my
kin those fools with phony degrees and exhaulted titles and all the
technology whose name starts off with the trademark Maharishi.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickmays@ wrote:
 
  I'm circulating this because it's a way of solving the fundamental
  problem of society - ignorance of natural law - through
  consciousness-education for enlightenment.-Dick
 
  The fundamental problem of society is not believing the TMO's
  world view? You've really no idea how scary this is.
 
 
 OMG!  A year ago, despite my man heresies, I saw nothing wrong with
 this.  Of course Maharishi's every message, the TMO's every message
 made perfect sense, even if I couldn't find the sense in it.  I was a
 pod person.
 
 I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
 every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
 they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
 are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
 them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
 Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
 feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.

And the further away you get the stranger it seems, until one 
day you run into an old friend and they'll say something like 
I got some nature support today and a shiver runs down the 
back of your neck. Was I ever really like this, you'll wonder.

TM teachers get can shocked when you reject the knowledge but
real friends don't care if you don't share their beliefs anymore, would you? 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[It's just a ride]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Hugo richardhughes...@hotmail.com wrote:


 I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
 every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
 they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
 are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
 them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
 Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
 feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.

 And the further away you get the stranger it seems, until one
 day you run into an old friend and they'll say something like
 I got some nature support today and a shiver runs down the
 back of your neck. Was I ever really like this, you'll wonder.

 TM teachers get can shocked when you reject the knowledge but
 real friends don't care if you don't share their beliefs anymore, would you?


Right now it's not strange.  It was ever strange.  The year of this,
Hail President Despot, Maharishi This, That and The Other (Trademark
symbol here), phony academic degrees, phony exalted titles.  Rush to
build this forest academy but we won't fund it and we'll let it rot
into the ground.   Governors (of which states?), Ministers (of who's
cabinet?), phony countries, it's the numbers that count.  Except that
one sidha counts for 100 unless there are N then it's N^2, but if it's
a pandit, then you have to solve a polynomial.  Now it's neutral.  As
in things may come, things may go but I go on forever.

Except for one guy who comes to IA from Europe but only goes to the
Dome twice, max and does a quick 20 minute meditation in his suite
otherwise, my friends are trying to save me from my heresy.  It's
obviously unstressing.  Perhaps if I spoke with a sidhi administrator.
 My doshas aren't balanced.   If only I'd go back to reading my pulse
and eat what my pulse tells me to eat.  It's a phase.  It's a reaction
to too much, too fast.  It's a reaction to my reporting that so much
of the world has fallen away, leaving just me.  That's obviously just
a sign of unstressing.

The strangest was an email from my yagna group in India that a
friend had donated money for a yagna with a sankalpa of pulling me
back into the fold.

These not be friends, methinks.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
 bill.hicks.all.a.ride@ wrote:
 
  I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
  every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
  they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA 
  and are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my 
  heresy to them. It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the 
  Matrix. Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls. You 
  no longer feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.
 
 And the further away you get the stranger it seems, until one 
 day you run into an old friend and they'll say something like 
 I got some nature support today and a shiver runs down the 
 back of your neck. Was I ever really like this, you'll wonder.

Get 32 years away from it, and there are no more
shivers, and also no more questions such as Was
I really like this? By then you've realized not
only, Yes, I was, you've learned to laugh at
yourself for having been that way.

As a result, when you encounter those who still
buy into this stuff, it inspires humor, not 
hatred. Anyone who can even *conceive* of using
the word heretic has clearly never been one,
and thus learned that heresy really is pretty 
fun. :-)

 TM teachers get can shocked when you reject the knowledge but
 real friends don't care if you don't share their beliefs anymore, 
 would you?

Clearly, as evidenced by stories told on this very 
forum, some do.

Again, the laughter/hatred proportion reveals it
all. If you're a TB and encounter a former TB who
says he/she isn't one any more, the proper response
is to laugh and wish them well, and realize that if
they were your friend before, they still are. 

A somewhat...uh...less proper response is to write
them off as a friend, or pity them, or actually hate
them, as some clearly do. 

It's all in the ability to laugh at it all, *including*
the beliefs themselves. If you can do that, you're not
likely to descend into a hate-sink and stay there. If
you can't...well...that's where you live.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
   
 snip
   Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands
   of people, it's due to lack of good experiences during
   meditation usually because of an undisciplined lifestyle. 
   That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately
   the most common.
  
  I appreciate your perspective on this.  But TM or even the
  Siddhis were never promoted as something that required a
  disciplined lifestyle. Or do you just mean the discipline
  to meditate twice a day?
 
 Get enough rest and exercise, eat right, etc. Standard
 recommendations for healthy living (in addition to regular
 practice, of course). You must have had a very different
 TM course than I did if you never encountered them.

All I said was that TM and the siddhis were not promoted as requiring a 
disciplined lifestyle.   Of course, the TMO on www.tm.org still promotes basic 
TM  as not requiring any lifestyle changes at all.  Specifically, The 
Transcendental Meditation technique is not a religion or philosophy and 
involves no change in lifestyle.

There certainly has been lifestyle creep in the true believer community, 
probably as a result of all the side products the TMO has been promoting in 
recent years.  I know those who believe they will live forever if they eat in a 
certain way and do program. But that has never been an official position of the 
TMO.   And lifestyle changes were not promoted as a requirement for the sidhis 
to work back in the mid 70s.   Even today when the TMO researches people doing 
the sidhis I have not seen them isolate whether the sidha is eating a certain 
way, getting a certain amount of exercise and getting a certain amount of 
sleep.  So from that standpoint, a certain lifestyle beyond regular mediation 
has not been a requirement or concern.  Rest in rather vague terms has been 
consistently promoted, usually to say you should rest a few minutes after your 
program.  Meditation and rest afterwords is he general prescription for 
unstressing.  But vague admonitions to rest isn't really what most think of 
when thinking of lifestyle requirements. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote:

 May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?  
 
 I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give it 
 up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more sudden 
 aha moment.

Ruth,

If I could interject on an interesting topic for me...
According to professionals in the field of leaving such groups the vast 
majority drift away and dilute the belief system with other beliefs.  It takes 
a lot of milieu control (Lifton's term) to keep the teaching pure as Maharishi 
used to say. Most people just walk away from deep involvement and allow the 
belief system to drift between conscious and unconscious assumptions.  The 
beliefs that don't interfere with their lives stay, and the ones do interfere 
fall off.  Just like most religious people do with their God ideas.  You have 
to really work to even make the most unconscious presuppositions conscious for 
evaluation and not too many people are motivated to go there.  Few have the 
resources to get the professional assistance in this process although there are 
some good resources for self study.  

For me it was an intellectual tipping point that happened pretty rapidly 
accelerated by my conscious decision to explore optional points of view on my 
experiences in TM.  I may have been assisted in my interest and training in 
philosophy because at least I recognized that I was shifting my whole 
epistemological basis for my life and knew I had to do a lot of work to rebuild 
the system I had left in tatters.

Just like with other religious people few dedicated TMers are really that into 
the theology and philosophy in detail.  Internally it is not so much a coherent 
system of thought as a jumble of phrases, Lifton's loading of the language 
that represent their core identity beliefs.  It is more of a feeling space than 
an intellectual one.  So without a clear cut awareness of the actual premises 
the system is based on, there is little motivation to root out all the mental 
registry fragments of their previous identity.

My two cents. 



 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
 bill.hicks.all.a.ride@ wrote:
 
  OMG!  A year ago, despite my man heresies, I saw nothing wrong with
  this.  Of course Maharishi's every message, the TMO's every message
  made perfect sense, even if I couldn't find the sense in it.  I was a
  pod person.
  
  I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
  every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
  they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
  are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
  them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
  Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
  feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.
 
 
 
 May I ask, how did you happen to disengage?  
 
 I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give it 
 up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more sudden 
 aha moment.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:

  snip
Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands
of people, it's due to lack of good experiences during
meditation usually because of an undisciplined lifestyle. 
That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately
the most common.
   
   I appreciate your perspective on this.  But TM or even the
   Siddhis were never promoted as something that required a
   disciplined lifestyle. Or do you just mean the discipline
   to meditate twice a day?
  
  Get enough rest and exercise, eat right, etc. Standard
  recommendations for healthy living (in addition to regular
  practice, of course). You must have had a very different
  TM course than I did if you never encountered them.
 
 All I said was that TM and the siddhis were not promoted
 as requiring a disciplined lifestyle.

Nor did Nabby or I say they were. There's no but here.

Both TM and the TM-Sidhis teach that following standard 
recommendations for a healthy lifestyle will enable you
to get the most out of your practice.

 Of course, the TMO on www.tm.org still promotes basic TM
 as not requiring any lifestyle changes at all.
 Specifically, The Transcendental Meditation technique is
 not a religion or philosophy and involves no change in
 lifestyle.

Of course, you are overinterpreting change in lifestyle
in an attempt to dredge up a contradiction. Obviously in 
your interpretation, incorporating two meditation periods
a day in one's routine would involve a change in
lifestyle.

You're also interpreting disciplined (as opposed to
undisciplined) to mean something considerably more
strenuous than simply healthy living.

But again, not even *that* much discipline is required to
learn and practice TM. As noted, healthy living is simply
recommended as the way to make the most of your practice
(it's likely the way to make the most of *any* self-
improvement practice).

Nabby's saying that in his experience, those who ignore
such recommendations tend to be more likely to quit TM
because they aren't getting as much from their practice.

(This was in response to your remark, I sometimes wonder
how likely it is for a long term true believer to give it
up and lose faith. And whether it simply is a drifting
away or a more sudden 'aha' moment.)

 There certainly has been lifestyle creep in the true
 believer community, probably as a result of all the side
 products the TMO has been promoting in recent years.

Unquestionably, but that's irrelevant to what Nabby
and I are telling you.

snip
 Rest in rather vague terms has been consistently promoted,
 usually to say you should rest a few minutes after your
 program.  Meditation and rest afterwords is he general
 prescription for unstressing.  But vague admonitions to
 rest isn't really what most think of when thinking of
 lifestyle requirements.

Not sure what your point is here. There are, as I said, no
lifestyle requirements to practice TM.

In any case, getting enough rest at night, not just after
meditation, is an extremely common recommendation in the
TM context, in my experience. TM isn't a substitute for
sleep.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[Doug]

  I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give 
  it up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more 
  sudden aha moment.
 
 Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands of people, it's due 
 to lack of good experiences during meditation usually because of an 
 undisciplined lifestyle. 
 That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately the most common.


Yeah, writing as an old and conservative meditator, I'm with Nablusoss on this 
one.
My experience too.  Simply are a lot of folks who just didn't sit up and do the 
work of spiritual  practice.  Lot of people outright laid down and actively 
went to sleep.  Spiritual practice is something that folks do have to do, as in 
have the discipline to do and work at.  Not sleep at.  
  
Some grace may bring it along to folks as a work come to be done.  Even so, 
some lot of people even if given everything never learn how to work in life; 
just get by and some are just quitters in being ill-prepared as they are 
ill-disciplined.   Either badly nurtured or cultured, just bad material that 
might have been made more better beforehand, next time. 

So says the knowledge, people's experience, and the science together now.  
 
The extraordinary time now is that the spiritual bandwidth is so wide and open 
to so many in these modern times.   A message so widely around now in so many 
ways, Repent your ways and come to meditation.  The opportunity of a life 
time.  It's even on Oprah.  Hope springs eternal eternally in natural law.  
Know they Self.

Jai Adi Shankara,
-D in FF  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 You're also interpreting disciplined (as opposed to
 undisciplined) to mean something considerably more
 strenuous than simply healthy living.

You must be bored, making hay out of nothing. You are interpreting what Nabby 
meant by his comment about an undisciplined lifestyle. You don't know if he 
meant failure to engage in simple healthy living.  (Though I do dispute that 
the TMO actually promotes simple healthy living).Either way, the TMO 
doesn't talk about leading disciplined lifestyle at all, it is not a phrase the 
TMO uses, so I was interested in what else Nabby had to say about it.  
 
 But again, not even *that* much discipline is required to
 learn and practice TM. 

Well, it depends.  If you find the practice unsatisfying it could take 
considerable self discipline to continue with the practice.  If you believed 
the underlying theory, you might exercise that discipline, but if not odds are 
you would quit.  It would take a huge amount of self dis 

As noted, healthy living is simply
 recommended as the way to make the most of your practice
 (it's likely the way to make the most of *any* self-
 improvement practice).

 
 Nabby's saying that in his experience, those who ignore
 such recommendations tend to be more likely to quit TM
 because they aren't getting as much from their practice.

He didn't say that.  He said what he said and I asked for more clarification.  
I don't need you to be a Nabby interpreter. Now after your post putting words 
in his mouth who knows what he will say.  No thanks for butting in. 
 
 (This was in response to your remark, I sometimes wonder
 how likely it is for a long term true believer to give it
 up and lose faith. And whether it simply is a drifting
 away or a more sudden 'aha' moment.)
 
  There certainly has been lifestyle creep in the true
  believer community, probably as a result of all the side
  products the TMO has been promoting in recent years.
 
 Unquestionably, but that's irrelevant to what Nabby
 and I are telling you.

I let Nabby speak for himself. I think it is very relevant as it can color the 
point of view of believers. 
 
 snip
  Rest in rather vague terms has been consistently promoted,
  usually to say you should rest a few minutes after your
  program.  Meditation and rest afterwords is he general
  prescription for unstressing.  But vague admonitions to
  rest isn't really what most think of when thinking of
  lifestyle requirements.
 
 Not sure what your point is here. There are, as I said, no
 lifestyle requirements to practice TM. 

As I have said several times I am interested in  
Nabby's comment about undisciplined lifestyles leading to lack of good 
mediation experiences contributing to people quitting.  



 
 In any case, getting enough rest at night, not just after
 meditation, is an extremely common recommendation in the
 TM context, in my experience. TM isn't a substitute for
 sleep.

Extremely common?  I don't recall my initiator mentioning it.  I don't recall 
anything in the checking notes about it.  I was checked last year, the teacher 
didn't mention it and no prior checker ever mentioned it.  On courses getting 
enough sleep during the course was emphasized.  But it did seem a bit like an 
excuse to make people go to bed early and get out of people's hair. Here, have 
a starchy meal and go to sleep.  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Doug dhamiltony...@... wrote:

 
 
   I sometimes wonder how likely it is for a long term true believer to give 
   it up and lose faith.  And whether it simply is a drifting away or a more 
   sudden aha moment.
  
  Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands of people, it's 
  due to lack of good experiences during meditation usually because of an 
  undisciplined lifestyle. 
  That ofcourse is just one of many reasons but definately the most common.
 
 
 Yeah, writing as an old and conservative meditator, I'm with Nablusoss on 
 this one.
 My experience too.  Simply are a lot of folks who just didn't sit up and do 
 the work of spiritual  practice.  Lot of people outright laid down and 
 actively went to sleep.  Spiritual practice is something that folks do have 
 to do, as in have the discipline to do and work at.  Not sleep at.  
   
 Some grace may bring it along to folks as a work come to be done.  Even so, 
 some lot of people even if given everything never learn how to work in life; 
 just get by and some are just quitters in being ill-prepared as they are 
 ill-disciplined.   Either badly nurtured or cultured, just bad material that 
 might have been made more better beforehand, next time. 
 
 So says the knowledge, people's experience, and the science together now.  
  
 The extraordinary time now is that the spiritual bandwidth is so wide and 
 open to so many in these modern times.   A message so widely around now in so 
 many ways, Repent your ways and come to meditation.  The opportunity of a 
 life time.  It's even on Oprah.  Hope springs eternal eternally in natural 
 law.  Know they Self.
 
 Jai Adi Shankara,
 -D in FF


Please, be specific.  What work of spiritual practice?  Do you simply mean 
being regular in mediation/sidhi practice?  Or more? 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:11 AM, ruthsimplicity
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
  bill.hicks.all.a.ride@ wrote:
 
 SNIP
 
  Two songs come to mind.  One is I haven't got time for the pain.
  The other is Meatloaf's Two Out of Three Ain't Bad.  'Cept in this
  case it's zero out of three.  I don't want you, I don't need you and
  there ain't no way I'm ever going to love you.  Wait, make that three
  songs.  The third is Respect.  Except I'm not demanding respect, I'm
  granting it to myself.
 
 
 
 RD, re-reading my words I see ambiguity.  I have not stopped doing my
 full TM-Sidhi program, including asanas, pranayama, meditating,
 research into consciousnes, flying, Jaimini, listening to chanting I
 can't mention, Sama and Rig Veda.  I just now do it for me, for my own
 edification.  I'm trying to race towards a goal.  My goal, announced
 many years ago at a preparatory course, was to meditate until I no
 longer gave a shit.  I got flunked on that prep course for saying
 that.  Machts nichts.  What matters to me is that I reached my goal
 after all these years.  I no longer give a shit.  I do my program
 because it's nice and nice things happen perhaps as a result of doing
 my program.
 
 I feel so free having thrown off the yoke of having to accept as my
 kin those fools with phony degrees and exhaulted titles and all the
 technology whose name starts off with the trademark Maharishi.


You may not answer me because you don't give a shit, but what is nice about 
your program and what nice things do you think happen as a result?   

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:

[restoring part of what Ruth snipped, without indicating
it, just for the record:]

   Of course, the TMO on www.tm.org still promotes basic TM
   as not requiring any lifestyle changes at all.
   Specifically, The Transcendental Meditation technique is
   not a religion or philosophy and involves no change in
   lifestyle.
 
  Of course, you are overinterpreting change in lifestyle
  in an attempt to dredge up a contradiction. Obviously in
  your interpretation, incorporating two meditation periods
  a day in one's routine would involve a change in
  lifestyle.


  You're also interpreting disciplined (as opposed to
  undisciplined) to mean something considerably more
  strenuous than simply healthy living.
 
 You must be bored, making hay out of nothing.

As I pointed out, you're trying to fabricate a
contradiction that doesn't exist. That isn't nothing.

 You are
 interpreting what Nabby meant by his comment about an
 undisciplined lifestyle. You don't know if he meant
 failure to engage in simple healthy living.

(I didn't say simple healthy living, I said simply
[i.e., merely] healthy living. A lifestyle doesn't
have to be simple to be healthy.)

Well, yes, I do know what Nabby meant, and so do you,
because he went on to explain it (and you responded
to that post, so I know you read it):

Or eating a huge meal minutes before you meditate. The
outer pressures from for example spouses and children can
take a huge toll unless one is disciplined. That's why
being single usually, but not always, makes things easier.
If not disciplined small thing like overeating or not
getting enough sleep will make experiences dull to the
point when someone might think it's a waste of time to
meditate or follow a time-consuming TM-Sidhi programme.
The wast majority who drop out do so for these mundane
reasons.

I had expanded a little on that by mentioning getting 
enough exercise, but I doubt he'd disagree.

He and I are essentially saying the same thing. (He
also makes the point that it can be tougher to stick
to a healthy routine, including regular program, with
a spouse and children, which seems commonsensical.)

Notice that he doesn't say anything about any of what
you called lifestyle creep, as I suspect you were
hoping he would so you could pounce on it and quote
the TM promo literature again.

 (Though I do dispute that the TMO actually promotes simple
 healthy living).Either way, the TMO doesn't talk about
 leading disciplined lifestyle at all, it is not a phrase
 the TMO uses

Nabby didn't use it either. He talked about an 
undisciplined lifestyle, i.e., a lifestyle with no
discipline. As I said, you're interpreting disciplined
lifestyle to mean something more strenuous than merely
healthy living so you can claim there's a contradiction.

, so I was interested in what else Nabby had to say about it.

And he told you, and it was the same as what I said.

  But again, not even *that* much discipline is required to
  learn and practice TM. 
 
 Well, it depends.  If you find the practice unsatisfying
 it could take considerable self discipline to continue with
 the practice.

Of course, regular practice (as I said earlier in this
exchange) is a given, so this is irrelevant.

snip
 As noted, healthy living is simply
  recommended as the way to make the most of your practice
  (it's likely the way to make the most of *any* self-
  improvement practice).
  
  Nabby's saying that in his experience, those who ignore
  such recommendations tend to be more likely to quit TM
  because they aren't getting as much from their practice.
 
 He didn't say that.

Yes, he did:

Usually, from my experiences meeting virtually thousands
of people, it's due to lack of good experiences during
meditation usually because of an undisciplined lifestyle.

 He said what he said and I asked for more clarification.
 I don't need you to be a Nabby interpreter.

We disagree.

 Now after your post putting words in his mouth who knows
 what he will say.

He already said it before he saw either of my posts,
and we both know what he said. In any case, he's never
been shy about disagreeing, even with other TMers. I'm
sure he'll correct me if I've misinterpreted him.

  No thanks for butting in. 
  
  (This was in response to your remark, I sometimes wonder
  how likely it is for a long term true believer to give it
  up and lose faith. And whether it simply is a drifting
  away or a more sudden 'aha' moment.)
  
   There certainly has been lifestyle creep in the true
   believer community, probably as a result of all the side
   products the TMO has been promoting in recent years.
  
  Unquestionably, but that's irrelevant to what Nabby
  and I are telling you.
 
 I let Nabby speak for himself. I think it is very relevant
 as it can color the point of view of believers.

No question it can color their point 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... 
wrote:


 Ruth,
 
 If I could interject on an interesting topic for me...
 According to professionals in the field of leaving such groups the vast 
 majority drift away and dilute the belief system with other beliefs.  It 
 takes a lot of milieu control (Lifton's term) to keep the teaching pure as 
 Maharishi used to say. Most people just walk away from deep involvement and 
 allow the belief system to drift between conscious and unconscious 
 assumptions.  The beliefs that don't interfere with their lives stay, and the 
 ones do interfere fall off.  Just like most religious people do with their 
 God ideas.  You have to really work to even make the most unconscious 
 presuppositions conscious for evaluation and not too many people are 
 motivated to go there.  Few have the resources to get the professional 
 assistance in this process although there are some good resources for self 
 study.  
 
 For me it was an intellectual tipping point that happened pretty rapidly 
 accelerated by my conscious decision to explore optional points of view on my 
 experiences in TM.  I may have been assisted in my interest and training in 
 philosophy because at least I recognized that I was shifting my whole 
 epistemological basis for my life and knew I had to do a lot of work to 
 rebuild the system I had left in tatters.
 
 Just like with other religious people few dedicated TMers are really that 
 into the theology and philosophy in detail.  Internally it is not so much a 
 coherent system of thought as a jumble of phrases, Lifton's loading of the 
 language that represent their core identity beliefs.  It is more of a 
 feeling space than an intellectual one.  So without a clear cut awareness of 
 the actual premises the system is based on, there is little motivation to 
 root out all the mental registry fragments of their previous identity.
 
 My two cents. 

Thank you.   Fits with my thoughts. I agree that theology and philosophy is 
generally not that relevant to most believers.  Certainty in  core beliefs is 
what is relevant and certainty is all about emotion, not evidence, logic, or 
even theology.  
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:
 
 
  I have many friends who ran for the Natural Law Party, who follow
  every bit of Maharishi Joytish, Maharishi Ayurveda, MVVT, whatever
  they can afford, who are expecting me to come in the Spring to IA and
  are used to my supporting them on IA.  I dare not speak my heresy to
  them.  It is lonely when you disengage yourself from the Matrix.
  Suddenly it's just you and billions of other souls.  You no longer
  feel a kinship with a few thousand hypnotized people.
 
  And the further away you get the stranger it seems, until one
  day you run into an old friend and they'll say something like
  I got some nature support today and a shiver runs down the
  back of your neck. Was I ever really like this, you'll wonder.
 
  TM teachers get can shocked when you reject the knowledge but
  real friends don't care if you don't share their beliefs anymore, would you?
 
 
 Right now it's not strange.  It was ever strange.  The year of this,
 Hail President Despot, Maharishi This, That and The Other (Trademark
 symbol here), phony academic degrees, phony exalted titles.  Rush to
 build this forest academy but we won't fund it and we'll let it rot
 into the ground.   Governors (of which states?), Ministers (of who's
 cabinet?), phony countries, it's the numbers that count.  Except that
 one sidha counts for 100 unless there are N then it's N^2, but if it's
 a pandit, then you have to solve a polynomial.  Now it's neutral.  As
 in things may come, things may go but I go on forever.
 
 Except for one guy who comes to IA from Europe but only goes to the
 Dome twice, max and does a quick 20 minute meditation in his suite
 otherwise, my friends are trying to save me from my heresy.  It's
 obviously unstressing.  Perhaps if I spoke with a sidhi administrator.
  My doshas aren't balanced.   If only I'd go back to reading my pulse
 and eat what my pulse tells me to eat.  It's a phase.  It's a reaction
 to too much, too fast.  It's a reaction to my reporting that so much
 of the world has fallen away, leaving just me.  That's obviously just
 a sign of unstressing.
 
 The strangest was an email from my yagna group in India that a
 friend had donated money for a yagna with a sankalpa of pulling me
 back into the fold.
 
 These not be friends, methinks.


Be careful out there.  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 
 Well, yes, I do know what Nabby meant, and so do you,
 because he went on to explain it (and you responded
 to that post, so I know you read it):
 
 Or eating a huge meal minutes before you meditate. The
 outer pressures from for example spouses and children can
 take a huge toll unless one is disciplined. That's why
 being single usually, but not always, makes things easier.
 If not disciplined small thing like overeating or not
 getting enough sleep will make experiences dull to the
 point when someone might think it's a waste of time to
 meditate or follow a time-consuming TM-Sidhi programme.
 The wast majority who drop out do so for these mundane
 reasons.

You are right, I forgot that post as it wasn't in what you quoted.   My bad and 
I apologize, especially for my comment that you were poisoning the Nabby well.  
I shouldn't try to do 10 things at once!Now I remember that I did respond 
to his marriage comment.  Now that is a lifestyle issue.  Try to be married, 
work full time, have kids, and do your sidhi program.  Something will suffer. 
You acknowledged the difficulty when you said: (He also makes the point that 
it can be tougher to stick to a healthy routine, including regular program, 
with a spouse and children, which seems commonsensical.) 

Arguably, the siddhi program is unnatural for people who have to work for a 
living and have a family.  But I digress. 





snip
 
 Notice that he doesn't say anything about any of what
 you called lifestyle creep, as I suspect you were
 hoping he would so you could pounce on it and quote
 the TM promo literature again.

Don't make assumptions about me and my intentions.  You are always way off 
base.  I have no desire to pounce on Nabby, I wasn't doing that in the thread,  
and had no expectations about what he was going to say.  You sure present a 
negative view of others' motives are here and I find it insulting and tiresome. 
 


snip
   But again, not even *that* much discipline is required to
   learn and practice TM. 
  
  Well, it depends.  If you find the practice unsatisfying
  it could take considerable self discipline to continue with
  the practice.
 
 Of course, regular practice (as I said earlier in this
 exchange) is a given, so this is irrelevant.

Well, you are the one who said not much discipline is required to learn and 
practice TM.  I just disputed what you said. 
 

snip, no time to respond to all points
 
 
  On courses getting enough sleep during the course was
  emphasized.  But it did seem a bit like an excuse to
  make people go to bed early and get out of people's
  hair. Here, have a starchy meal and go to sleep.
 
 Just can't contain the malice, can you?

I would put it in the category of snark rather than malice.  


Well, off I go for a while.  Not enough time to joust properly.  I might check 
in to see if others responded to my questions.  Despite what Judy implies, I am 
not trying to set anyone up to be pounced on.  That is Judy's job.  (More 
snark, oops!)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[It's just a ride]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:04 PM, ruthsimplicity
no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 You may not answer me because you don't give a shit, but what is nice about 
 your program and what nice things do you think happen as a result?


I have rounded for so long, meditated for so long, sponsor almost
continuous yagnas, sponsor many CPs, have many advanced techniques.
And unstressed out of my skull.  The result?  I have very clear
experiences of the thousands of levels on the way down to TC.  Very
clear TC (obviously a little bit of ego and waking state still there
or I'd have no experience I could talk about.  I get very good hits on
most all of my sutras.  Great depth during sutra practice.  I see that
The Absolute actually is full of unmanifested things and events,
seeds.  There's a fabric to the Absolute.  It's not just flat.  It's
very full emptiness.

Outside of activity?  Support of Nature, increasingly knowing who I
am, joy inner and outer.  The ability to strike up a conversation with
anybody on any subject.  Things are just nice.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Vote for Consciousness-Based Education at Change.org

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 3:04 PM, ruthsimplicity
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
  You may not answer me because you don't give a shit, but what is nice about 
  your program and what nice things do you think happen as a result?
 
 
 I have rounded for so long, meditated for so long, sponsor almost
 continuous yagnas, sponsor many CPs, have many advanced techniques.
 And unstressed out of my skull.  The result?  I have very clear
 experiences of the thousands of levels on the way down to TC.  Very
 clear TC (obviously a little bit of ego and waking state still there
 or I'd have no experience I could talk about.  I get very good hits on
 most all of my sutras.  Great depth during sutra practice.  I see that
 The Absolute actually is full of unmanifested things and events,
 seeds.  There's a fabric to the Absolute.  It's not just flat.  It's
 very full emptiness.
 
 Outside of activity?  Support of Nature, increasingly knowing who I
 am, joy inner and outer.  The ability to strike up a conversation with
 anybody on any subject.  Things are just nice.


Thanks.