Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 10:13 PM, grate. swan no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: Yes but if you really really feel it in your gut, its true. That's how I roll. And if God talks to you, its slam dunk true. I'm sorry. I was looking over another planet. Did you summon me? Incidently, quite a number of the FFL members and I need to have a serious talk. How about let's all meet at my house before the game on Sunday? Bring the kids. Oh. And none of this puja stuff. Remember my first commandment? Oh one more thing. Keep using my name in vain and I'll make rush hour longer.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyapu...@... wrote: No, it is not religious. As far as I can tell, the bottom line of this Is TM a religion argument is that people are just continuing to think WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO THINK. If Maharishi had followed some of his early followers' advice and set up the teaching of TM as a religion, THESE SAME PEOPLE would be appearing as witnesses in the Scientology-like court cases that would have been brought to prove that the teaching of TM was *not* a religion. And THESE SAME PEOPLE would be swearing under oath that it WAS a religion. Why don't we stop these silly debates and just call *both* Scientology and the TMO what they are -- businesses?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
Hari Om Barry. You just can't club TM and scientiology to gether. TM is a scientific technique. Scientiology is just mumbo jumbo cult. Click below the see Barry's religion. http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XFMCgeI7c --- TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 12:36 AM As far as I can tell, the bottom line of this Is TM a religion argument is that people are just continuing to think WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO THINK. If Maharishi had followed some of his early followers' advice and set up the teaching of TM as a religion, THESE SAME PEOPLE would be appearing as witnesses in the Scientology- like court cases that would have been brought to prove that the teaching of TM was *not* a religion. And THESE SAME PEOPLE would be swearing under oath that it WAS a religion. Why don't we stop these silly debates and just call *both* Scientology and the TMO what they are -- businesses? - amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ ... wrote: No, it is not religious.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_sp...@... wrote: Hari Om Barry. You just can't club TM and scientiology to gether. TM is a scientific technique. Scientiology is just mumbo jumbo cult. Click below the see Barry's religion. http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XFMCgeI7c Click below to see Jason's: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/206110 I rest my case. --- TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 12:36 AM As far as I can tell, the bottom line of this Is TM a religion argument is that people are just continuing to think WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO THINK. If Maharishi had followed some of his early followers' advice and set up the teaching of TM as a religion, THESE SAME PEOPLE would be appearing as witnesses in the Scientology- like court cases that would have been brought to prove that the teaching of TM was *not* a religion. And THESE SAME PEOPLE would be swearing under oath that it WAS a religion. Why don't we stop these silly debates and just call *both* Scientology and the TMO what they are -- businesses? - amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ ... wrote: No, it is not religious.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. OffWorld Sorry Off, but I think that's a bit like claiming, for instance, that 'purpose' is equivalent to 'poor pose' You need to check your sanskrit. 'Pu' is 'purifying'; cleansing. 'Ja' is 'born' or 'beginning'. OffWorld ROTFLMFFLOFFOLLOWMAOi! ;D
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
On Jan 27, 2009, at 8:22 AM, cardemaister wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. OffWorld Sorry Off, but I think that's a bit like claiming, for instance, that 'purpose' is equivalent to 'poor pose' You need to check your sanskrit. 'Pu' is 'purifying'; cleansing. 'Ja' is 'born' or 'beginning'. OffWorld ROTFLMFFLOFFOLLOWMAOi! ;D That's it! I'm not going to bathe anymore, I'm going to Pu Ju! It's a scientific procedure, so I'm not worried.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. OffWorld Sorry Off, but I think that's a bit like claiming, for instance, that 'purpose' is equivalent to 'poor pose' You need to check your sanskrit. 'Pu' is 'purifying'; cleansing. 'Ja' is 'born' or 'beginning'. OffWorld ROTFLMFFLOFFOLLOWMAOi! ;D Just occurred to me, 'purohitam' in 'agnim iile pu-ro-hit-am' prolly means something like '(I) am hit by a purifying (pu) raw (ro)'
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyapu...@... wrote: You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. So the so-called Theory of Everything in Physics is a religious theory, hmm? This is the heart of the disconnect in our different POVs I think. If you want to do what Judy seems to be doing and calling the Vedic teaching a working hypothesis which is exactly what the TOE is all about, then you might be closer to it not being a religious assertion. But this is the phrase Ruth was commenting on: Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternalway of life. NO religion. Remember that Sanatana Dharma includes detailed instructions of the most repressive social organization in history, the caste system. It is being presented in a religious context as being an absolute, handed down from antiquity through India's scriptures without being modified by present experiences which is the opposite of physic's attempt to develop a TOE. So for example if I were to say that the caste system that requires that some people how are born in the clean up other people's doodie caste can NEVER rise above that by taking a computer class and getting a job at the Bangalore AOL call center is wrong...then the answer would be that I just don't understand that this organization of society is the best thing for the person's evolution assuming that there is reincarnation and that they will come back next life in a higher caste if they do their doodie cleaning really well in this life. These are religious beliefs. They are not subject to revision with modern sense of ethic concerning human rights. It is not the attempt to explain how everything works that defines some body of knowledge as religious. It is the appeal to an authority as the reason for the belief. A claim that this body of knowledge is the eternal way of life for example. Mistaking the intensity of belief for its epistemological justification is one of the most important traps to avoid in sorting out the natural human bias for believing that our POV doesn't need any more supporting evidence than its enthusiastic assertion. It does if we care about the truth in a scientific sense. But religion pull this move all the time. Well, continue to worry your pretty little head... You and your fiends here seem to see religion everywhere! Actually, also nice. With best wishes Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ wrote: Thanks, that's what I am saying too: TM just by itself is obviously not a religion THerefore, we can close that boring discussion. Just practise it and don't bother about all those theories. Well, I worry my pretty little head about these theories. And Veda, too, is not a religion. Maybe Hinduism is but Veda is not. Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternal way of life. NO religion. It is a knowledge pertaining to the whole so certainly including religion as any other knowledge. Our root is in Veda, not Hinduism Shaas I guess you told us! The eternal way of life is a religious concept. Religion deals with ultimate questions. I get the feeling that to call TM or the Vedas religion minimizes both in the TB's mind. You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. Everything else must fit or be bent to fit the concepts of the Vedas. Meditation is a technique of this religion. Much like taking communion or going to confession is a technique of the Catholic. So Shaas, do you believe in hovering? In Jyotish? In doing the puja? In pulse diagnosis of illness? That east facing homes are better than west facing homes? How religious are you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
Mistaking the intensity of belief for its epistemological justification is one of the most important traps to avoid in sorting out the natural human bias for believing that our POV doesn't need any more supporting evidence than its enthusiastic assertion. ** Curtis, this quote (above), not to mention the rest of the post, nail the issue directly. You'd make a hell of a trial lawyer. I'm continually impressed by your posts. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ wrote: You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. So the so-called Theory of Everything in Physics is a religious theory, hmm? This is the heart of the disconnect in our different POVs I think. If you want to do what Judy seems to be doing and calling the Vedic teaching a working hypothesis which is exactly what the TOE is all about, then you might be closer to it not being a religious assertion. But this is the phrase Ruth was commenting on: Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternalway of life. NO religion. Remember that Sanatana Dharma includes detailed instructions of the most repressive social organization in history, the caste system. It is being presented in a religious context as being an absolute, handed down from antiquity through India's scriptures without being modified by present experiences which is the opposite of physic's attempt to develop a TOE. So for example if I were to say that the caste system that requires that some people how are born in the clean up other people's doodie caste can NEVER rise above that by taking a computer class and getting a job at the Bangalore AOL call center is wrong...then the answer would be that I just don't understand that this organization of society is the best thing for the person's evolution assuming that there is reincarnation and that they will come back next life in a higher caste if they do their doodie cleaning really well in this life. These are religious beliefs. They are not subject to revision with modern sense of ethic concerning human rights. It is not the attempt to explain how everything works that defines some body of knowledge as religious. It is the appeal to an authority as the reason for the belief. A claim that this body of knowledge is the eternal way of life for example. Mistaking the intensity of belief for its epistemological justification is one of the most important traps to avoid in sorting out the natural human bias for believing that our POV doesn't need any more supporting evidence than its enthusiastic assertion. It does if we care about the truth in a scientific sense. But religion pull this move all the time. Well, continue to worry your pretty little head... You and your fiends here seem to see religion everywhere! Actually, also nice. With best wishes Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ wrote: Thanks, that's what I am saying too: TM just by itself is obviously not a religion THerefore, we can close that boring discussion. Just practise it and don't bother about all those theories. Well, I worry my pretty little head about these theories. And Veda, too, is not a religion. Maybe Hinduism is but Veda is not. Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternal way of life. NO religion. It is a knowledge pertaining to the whole so certainly including religion as any other knowledge. Our root is in Veda, not Hinduism Shaas I guess you told us! The eternal way of life is a religious concept. Religion deals with ultimate questions. I get the feeling that to call TM or the Vedas religion minimizes both in the TB's mind. You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. Everything else must fit or be bent to fit the concepts of the Vedas. Meditation is a technique of this religion. Much like taking communion or going to confession is a technique of the Catholic. So Shaas, do you believe in hovering? In Jyotish? In doing the puja? In pulse diagnosis of illness? That east facing homes are better than west facing homes? How religious are you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavisma...@... wrote: Mistaking the intensity of belief for its epistemological justification is one of the most important traps to avoid in sorting out the natural human bias for believing that our POV doesn't need any more supporting evidence than its enthusiastic assertion. ** Curtis, this quote (above), not to mention the rest of the post, nail the issue directly. You'd make a hell of a trial lawyer. I'm continually impressed by your posts. Thanks for the good vibes brother! You'd make a hell of a trial lawyer too...why wait a second... you ARE one! I rest my case. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ wrote: You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. So the so-called Theory of Everything in Physics is a religious theory, hmm? This is the heart of the disconnect in our different POVs I think. If you want to do what Judy seems to be doing and calling the Vedic teaching a working hypothesis which is exactly what the TOE is all about, then you might be closer to it not being a religious assertion. But this is the phrase Ruth was commenting on: Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternalway of life. NO religion. Remember that Sanatana Dharma includes detailed instructions of the most repressive social organization in history, the caste system. It is being presented in a religious context as being an absolute, handed down from antiquity through India's scriptures without being modified by present experiences which is the opposite of physic's attempt to develop a TOE. So for example if I were to say that the caste system that requires that some people how are born in the clean up other people's doodie caste can NEVER rise above that by taking a computer class and getting a job at the Bangalore AOL call center is wrong...then the answer would be that I just don't understand that this organization of society is the best thing for the person's evolution assuming that there is reincarnation and that they will come back next life in a higher caste if they do their doodie cleaning really well in this life. These are religious beliefs. They are not subject to revision with modern sense of ethic concerning human rights. It is not the attempt to explain how everything works that defines some body of knowledge as religious. It is the appeal to an authority as the reason for the belief. A claim that this body of knowledge is the eternal way of life for example. Mistaking the intensity of belief for its epistemological justification is one of the most important traps to avoid in sorting out the natural human bias for believing that our POV doesn't need any more supporting evidence than its enthusiastic assertion. It does if we care about the truth in a scientific sense. But religion pull this move all the time. Well, continue to worry your pretty little head... You and your fiends here seem to see religion everywhere! Actually, also nice. With best wishes Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ wrote: Thanks, that's what I am saying too: TM just by itself is obviously not a religion THerefore, we can close that boring discussion. Just practise it and don't bother about all those theories. Well, I worry my pretty little head about these theories. And Veda, too, is not a religion. Maybe Hinduism is but Veda is not. Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternal way of life. NO religion. It is a knowledge pertaining to the whole so certainly including religion as any other knowledge. Our root is in Veda, not Hinduism Shaas I guess you told us! The eternal way of life is a religious concept. Religion deals with ultimate questions. I get the feeling that to call TM or the Vedas religion minimizes both in the TB's mind. You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. Everything else must fit or be bent to fit the concepts of the Vedas. Meditation is a technique of this religion. Much like taking communion or going to confession is a technique of the Catholic. So Shaas, do you believe in hovering? In Jyotish? In doing the puja? In pulse diagnosis of illness? That east facing homes are better than west facing homes? How religious are you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavisma...@... wrote (quoting Curtis): Mistaking the intensity of belief for its epistemological justification is one of the most important traps to avoid in sorting out the natural human bias for believing that our POV doesn't need any more supporting evidence than its enthusiastic assertion. Certainty is an emotion, not a fact. - Father Flynn, Doubt
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavisma...@... wrote: Mistaking the intensity of belief for its epistemological justification is one of the most important traps to avoid in sorting out the natural human bias for believing that our POV doesn't need any more supporting evidence than its enthusiastic assertion. Yes but if you really really feel it in your gut, its true. That's how I roll. And if God talks to you, its slam dunk true. (paraphrasing GWB)
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 7:36 PM, geezerfreak wrote: Very enlightened thinking here...demonize and minimize those whose opinions differ from yours. Not to mention another huge non sequitur. Nothing to contribute to the religious vs. puja-as-scientific- procedure debate. Honestly it's difficult for me to imagine anyone but the most ardent of TB's still holding onto such a belief. I can imagine something stranger. Imagine that the person spouting all this TB stuff *never learned TM*, and is merely *pretending* to be a TM TB out of loneliness and a desperate need for attention, just as she did on any number of Personals forums, by pretending to be whatever got her the most attention there. She can't discuss the puja because she's never seen one. This *is* the person, after all, who can't tell us when and where she was taught TM and the TM-siddhis she claims to practice, and who, after all the 30 years of her claimed personal experience with TM and the TMO continues to call Maharishi the Maharishi. How many people does it take to prove that a blonde is too dumb to change a light bulb? Only one, if she's a blonde and keeps trying to change the light bulb herself, and in public.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:40 PM, off_world_beings wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. You might want to at least look at a Sanskrit dictionary next time OffWorld. Just because the movement you're involved with disseminates misinformation to it's adherents and many of them actually believe what they're told, it doesn't typically work that way in the real world: 1 pUjA f. honour , worship , respect , reverence , veneration , homage to superiors or adoration of the gods Gr2S. Mn. MBh. c. BTW, that's the complete Monier-Wiliams citation. Wow, that does sound scientific! :-)))
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
On Jan 25, 2009, at 11:49 PM, geezerfreak wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: monkeys aren't demons-- they're cute, lovable, furry monkeys, chattering away to their heart's content. chatter, chatter, chatter go the monkeys, about anything and everything, whether they know what they are chattering about or not. here, have a banana! Fuck you enlightened. Not! It's bad to make fun of people in Blonde Consciousness. You may never have fun again, after all Blo-Con's have more fun!
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
another monkey king! what are you -sure- of about me, mr. B? anything? you have guessed at many elements of my life, and persist in making up stories which run contrary to my stated experience. chatter, chatter, chatter goes the monkey king, hoping to find a tree to remain in. cute restless monkey. free bananas for life for you! maybe i start calling you my little chiquita... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 7:36 PM, geezerfreak wrote: Very enlightened thinking here...demonize and minimize those whose opinions differ from yours. Not to mention another huge non sequitur. Nothing to contribute to the religious vs. puja-as-scientific- procedure debate. Honestly it's difficult for me to imagine anyone but the most ardent of TB's still holding onto such a belief. I can imagine something stranger. Imagine that the person spouting all this TB stuff *never learned TM*, and is merely *pretending* to be a TM TB out of loneliness and a desperate need for attention, just as she did on any number of Personals forums, by pretending to be whatever got her the most attention there. She can't discuss the puja because she's never seen one. This *is* the person, after all, who can't tell us when and where she was taught TM and the TM-siddhis she claims to practice, and who, after all the 30 years of her claimed personal experience with TM and the TMO continues to call Maharishi the Maharishi. How many people does it take to prove that a blonde is too dumb to change a light bulb? Only one, if she's a blonde and keeps trying to change the light bulb herself, and in public.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
Indonesian Muslims banned from practicing yoga http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/26/indonesian-muslims-banned_n_16\ 0789.html [RSS] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/syndication/ stumble http://www.stumbleupon.com/submit.php?url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com\ /2009/01/26/indonesian-muslims-banned_n_160789.htmltitle=Indonesian%20M\ uslims%20banned%20from%20practicing%20yoga digg http://digg.com/submit?phase=2url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0\ 1/26/indonesian-muslims-banned_n_160789.htmltitle=Indonesian%20Muslims%\ 20banned%20from%20practicing%20yoga reddit http://reddit.com/submit?url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/26/i\ ndonesian-muslims-banned_n_160789.htmltitle=Indonesian%20Muslims%20bann\ ed%20from%20practicing%20yoga del.ico.us http://del.icio.us/post?v=4nouijump=closeurl=http://www.huffingtonpo\ st.com/2009/01/26/indonesian-muslims-banned_n_160789.htmltitle=Indonesi\ an%20Muslims%20banned%20from%20practicing%20yoga http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/huffington_post/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.hu\ ffingtonpost.com%252F2009%252F01%252F26%252Findonesian-muslims-banned_n_\ 160789.html mixx.com[Share this on Facebook] http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009\ /01/26/indonesian-muslims-banned_n_160789.htmltitle=Indonesian%20Muslim\ s%20banned%20from%20practicing%20yoga ShareThis NINIEK KARMINI http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/26/indonesian-muslims-banned_n_16\ 0789.html# | January 26, 2009 JAKARTA, Indonesia Indonesia's top Islamic body banned Muslims from practicing yoga that contains Hindu rituals like chanting, the chairman of the group said Monday, citing concerns it would corrupt their faith. Cleric Ma'ruf Amin said the Ulema Council issued the ruling following weekend talks attended by hundreds of theological experts in Padang Panjang, a village in West Sumatra province. Though not legally binding, most devout Muslims will likely adhere to it because they consider ignoring a religious decree sinful. The ban, which follows a similar edict in neighboring Malaysia, was passed after investigators visited gyms and private yoga classes across the country to see what effect rituals like chanting mantras might have on Muslims. Clerics determined that it could weaken their faith, but yoga practitioners and some scholars sharply disagreed Monday. They shouldn't be worrying about this, Jamilah Konny Fransiska, a yoga teacher on the northern island of Batam, said of the Islamic body. She said she knew very few people who incorporated Hindu elements with yoga. They should be focusing strictly on religious matters, she said. Amin said those who perform the ancient Indian exercise without Hindu rituals will not be affected by the ban. Indonesia is a secular country of 235 million people, 90 percent of whom are Muslim. Though most practice a moderate form of the faith, a vocal extremist fringe has gained strength, at times even influencing government policy. In recent years, yoga _ a blend of physical and mental exercises aimed at integrating mind, body and spirit _ has been increasingly practiced in gyms and dedicated centers around the world. In the United States, where it has become so popular that many public schools began offering it in gym classes, yoga has also come under fire. Some Christian fundamentalists and even secular parents have argued that yoga's Hindu roots conflict with Christian teachings and that using it in school might violate the separation of church and state. Egypt's highest theological body also banned yoga for Muslims in 2004. Indonesia's Ulema Council _ which wrapped up its annual meeting for the issuing of fatwas late Sunday _ decided to investigate the need for a yoga ban after Malaysia's top Islamic body issued its fatwa late last year.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. OffWorld Sorry Off, but I think that's a bit like claiming, for instance, that 'purpose' is equivalent to 'poor pose', or -- Lawd have Mercy! -- 'pure pose'... ; ) But I admit I might be all wronk (as Simon Cowell might comment?).
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:40 PM, off_world_beings wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. You might want to at least look at a Sanskrit dictionary next time OffWorld. I did. And my translation is accurate. Yours is superficial and incomplete, which is typical for you. OffWorld Just because the movement you're involved with disseminates misinformation to it's adherents and many of them actually believe what they're told, it doesn't typically work that way in the real world: 1 pUjA f. honour , worship , respect , reverence , veneration , homage to superiors or adoration of the gods Gr2S. Mn. MBh. c. BTW, that's the complete Monier-Wiliams citation. Wow, that does sound scientific! :-)))
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. OffWorld Sorry Off, but I think that's a bit like claiming, for instance, that 'purpose' is equivalent to 'poor pose' You need to check your sanskrit. 'Pu' is 'purifying'; cleansing. 'Ja' is 'born' or 'beginning'. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfr...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: monkeys aren't demons-- they're cute, lovable, furry monkeys, chattering away to their heart's content. chatter, chatter, chatter go the monkeys, about anything and everything, whether they know what they are chattering about or not. here, have a banana! Fuck you enlightened. Not!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
On Jan 26, 2009, at 5:00 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:40 PM, off_world_beings wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. You might want to at least look at a Sanskrit dictionary next time OffWorld. I did. And my translation is accurate. Yours is superficial and incomplete, which is typical for you. Well, by all means, please post your translation and list it's source Dear OffWorld! Here, let me share first: Capeller's Sanskrit dictionary is much more brief: 2 (cap) pUjAf. honour, worship, respect.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
A useful online Sanskrit dictionary resource is at:- http://spokensanskrit.de/ For the word 'puja' or 'puujaa' the following link is preset:- http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php? script=HKtinput=puujaacountry_ID=trans=Translatedirection=AU --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:40 PM, off_world_beings wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. You might want to at least look at a Sanskrit dictionary next time OffWorld. Just because the movement you're involved with disseminates misinformation to it's adherents and many of them actually believe what they're told, it doesn't typically work that way in the real world: 1 pUjA f. honour , worship , respect , reverence , veneration , homage to superiors or adoration of the gods Gr2S. Mn. MBh. c. BTW, that's the complete Monier-Wiliams citation. Wow, that does sound scientific! :-)))
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
No, it is not religious. Veneration of a person or a Master is not a religious activity. Unless, of course, you consider veneration of Hollywood stars as religious. Moreover, TM cannot be a religion if Christianity is considered to be one!!! Although there might be some similarities, their practice and ideology is completely different. They just cannot be in one compartment. Puja room is not a temple, it is a puja room. Samnyasa is not religion, it es LEAVING of all activity. and all your other points are clearly serving your purpose - no clear logic. With best wishes Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: The late great Sanskrit translator and yogi Sir John Woodroffe probably had access to more insight to traditional Hindu religious practices AND the Christian religious practices of his British homeland than almost anyone since. He noted there really wasn't a huge difference between Hindu religious practices like the TM puja and TM and Roman Catholicism. One is the Cult of Shakti and Shakta, the other is a cult of the Virgin Mary and Jesus/the Father. In fact he details their religious (not scientific or non-sectarian) sameness: amongst Christians, the Catholic Church, like Hinduism, has a full and potent Sadhana in its sacraments (Samskara), temple (Church), private worship (Puja, Upasana) with Upacara bell, light and incense (Ghanta, Dipa, Dhupa), Images or Pratima (hence it has been called idolatrous), devotional rites such as Novenas and the like (Vrata), the threefold Angelus at morn, noon and evening (Samdhya), rosary (Japa), the wearing of Kavacas (Scapulars, Medals, Agnus Dei), pilgrimage (Tirtha), fasting, abstinence and mortification (Tapas), monastic renunciation (Samnyasa), meditation (Dhyana), ending in the union of mystical theology (Samadhi) and so forth. There are other smaller details such for instance as Shanti-abhisheka (Asperges) into which I need not enter here. I may, however, mention the Spiritual Director who occupies the place of the Guru; the worship (Hyperdulia) of the Virgin-Mother which made Svami Vivekananda call the Italian Catholics, Shaktas; and the use of wine (Madya) and bread (corresponding to Mudra) in the Eucharist or Communion Service. Whilst, however, the Blessed Virgin evokes devotion as warm as that which is here paid to Devi, she is not Devi for she is not God but a creature selected as the vehicle of His incarnation (Avatara). In the Eucharist the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ appearing under the form or accidents of those material substances; so also Tara is Dravamayi, that is, the Saviour in liquid form. (Mahanirvana Tantra xi. 105-107.) In the Catholic Church (though the early practice was otherwise) the laity no longer take wine but bread only, the officiating priest consuming both. Whilst however the outward forms in this case are similar, the inner meaning is different. Those however who contend that eating and drinking are inconsistent with the dignity of worship may be reminded of Tertullian's saying that Christ instituted His great sacrament at a meal. These notions are those of the dualist with all his distinctions. For the Advaitin every function and act may be made a Yajña. Agape or Love Feasts, a kind of Cakra, were held in early times, and discontinued as orthodox practice, on account of abuses to which they led; though they are said still to exist in some of the smaller Christian sects of the day. There are other points of ritual which are peculiar to the Tantra Shastra and of which there is no counterpart in the Catholic ritual such as Nyasa and Yantra. Mantra exists in the form of prayer and as formulae of consecration, but otherwise the subject is conceived of differently here. There are certain gestures (Mudra) made in the ritual, as when consecrating, blessing, and so forth, but they are not so numerous or prominent as they are here. I may some day more fully develop these interesting analogies, but what I have said is for the present sufficient to establish the numerous similarities which exist between the Catholic and Indian Tantrik ritual. Because of these facts the reformed Christian sects have charged the Catholic Church with Paganism. It is in fact the inheritor of very ancient practices but is not necessarily the worse for that. The Hindu finds his Sadhana in the Tantras of the Agama in forms which his race has evolved. In the abstract there is no reason why his race should not modify these forms of Sadhana or evolve new ones. But the point is that it must have some form of Sadhana. Any system to be fruitful must experiment to gain experience. It is because of its powerful sacraments and disciplines that in the West the Catholic Church has survived to this day, holding firm upon its
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2009, at 5:00 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:40 PM, off_world_beings wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. You might want to at least look at a Sanskrit dictionary next time OffWorld. I did. And my translation is accurate. Yours is superficial and incomplete, which is typical for you. Well, by all means, please post your translation and list it's source Too easy: Pu cleaning , purifying. http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/ http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/ Ja born or descended from , produced or caused by , born or produced. http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche My translation is accurate. The others are old mistranslations. To say that the word `puja' means `worship' is like saying: Church means Christianity Avatar means a person's cartoon version on the internet. or Yogi means old bearded guy with beads around his neck. It is childish, absurd, lacking in accuracy, and misinformed. (and to you lot that say I got my version from the TMO, I did not, and that is not their translation as far as I know. You are the ones who are being like sheep, not me. You are brainwashed.) OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_re...@... wrote: [...] To say that the word `puja' means `worship' is like saying: Avatar means a person's cartoon version on the internet. On behalf of my avatar, I'd like to express my feelings of dismay. Saijanai Kuhn
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig lengli...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: [...] To say that the word `puja' means `worship' is like saying: Avatar means a person's cartoon version on the internet. On behalf of my avatar, I'd like to express my feelings of dismay. Oh just go back to your SecondLife world will ya ! :-) OffWorld(no pun intended in my name) Saijanai Kuhn
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
---Category errors - below. TM is obviously not to be compared to Hollywood starts (apples and bananas). By TM clarify - such as TM in context of the puja and body of knowledge that goes along with it since TM just by itself is obviously not a religion. Not many people are saying it is. (since - obviously per MMY's intention, one can extract TM from the religious matrix and practice it as an athiest or as a technique independent of one's religion. Yes, veneration of a god is religion; and in the braodest sense, one's Guru. The TM puja venerates Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Can't get any more religious than that! TM + puja + knowledge can be considered a Dharmic package within Hinduism. Much of Christianity is dualist dogma based on acceptance and belief; thus both are religious in nature but vastly different, like comparing rodents and elephants. (but both may have a common ancestor). You say practice and ideology are vastly different. Very true. There's plenty of room under the umbrella topic of religion to incorporate vastly different ideologies and practices. We haven't even scratched the surface of the Pleidian religions! You say TM is leaving activity. Fine we can setup a flow chart as follows: A. Religions: a. Dharmic religions, or non-dualist approaches that have Enlightenment as the goal (Cf. the teachings of the Buddha). b. Those dualist religions which bind one to form, ideas, dogmas and practices in and of themselves; e.g. accepting Jesus as one's Savior for example (in the orthodox sense), is all about remission of sins, not Enlightenment. So regardless of the direction or intention of religion, the properties common to both are adequate to fit into the wide umbrella as defined in wiki and various dictionaries. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyapu...@... wrote: No, it is not religious. Veneration of a person or a Master is not a religious activity. Unless, of course, you consider veneration of Hollywood stars as religious. Moreover, TM cannot be a religion if Christianity is considered to be one!!! Although there might be some similarities, their practice and ideology is completely different. They just cannot be in one compartment. Puja room is not a temple, it is a puja room. Samnyasa is not religion, it es LEAVING of all activity. and all your other points are clearly serving your purpose - no clear logic. With best wishes Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: The late great Sanskrit translator and yogi Sir John Woodroffe probably had access to more insight to traditional Hindu religious practices AND the Christian religious practices of his British homeland than almost anyone since. He noted there really wasn't a huge difference between Hindu religious practices like the TM puja and TM and Roman Catholicism. One is the Cult of Shakti and Shakta, the other is a cult of the Virgin Mary and Jesus/the Father. In fact he details their religious (not scientific or non-sectarian) sameness: amongst Christians, the Catholic Church, like Hinduism, has a full and potent Sadhana in its sacraments (Samskara), temple (Church), private worship (Puja, Upasana) with Upacara bell, light and incense (Ghanta, Dipa, Dhupa), Images or Pratima (hence it has been called idolatrous), devotional rites such as Novenas and the like (Vrata), the threefold Angelus at morn, noon and evening (Samdhya), rosary (Japa), the wearing of Kavacas (Scapulars, Medals, Agnus Dei), pilgrimage (Tirtha), fasting, abstinence and mortification (Tapas), monastic renunciation (Samnyasa), meditation (Dhyana), ending in the union of mystical theology (Samadhi) and so forth. There are other smaller details such for instance as Shanti-abhisheka (Asperges) into which I need not enter here. I may, however, mention the Spiritual Director who occupies the place of the Guru; the worship (Hyperdulia) of the Virgin-Mother which made Svami Vivekananda call the Italian Catholics, Shaktas; and the use of wine (Madya) and bread (corresponding to Mudra) in the Eucharist or Communion Service. Whilst, however, the Blessed Virgin evokes devotion as warm as that which is here paid to Devi, she is not Devi for she is not God but a creature selected as the vehicle of His incarnation (Avatara). In the Eucharist the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ appearing under the form or accidents of those material substances; so also Tara is Dravamayi, that is, the Saviour in liquid form. (Mahanirvana Tantra xi. 105-107.) In the Catholic Church (though the early practice was otherwise) the laity no longer take wine but bread only, the officiating priest consuming both. Whilst however the outward forms in this case are similar, the inner meaning is different.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
On Jan 26, 2009, at 8:41 PM, amritasyaputra wrote: No, it is not religious. Veneration of a person or a Master is not a religious activity. religion |riˈlijən| noun the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or god Unless, of course, you consider veneration of Hollywood stars as religious. It certainly has a religious aspect, but so does all hero worship. I'd call star worship, hero worship. Hero worship is an aspect of religious worship. Moreover, TM cannot be a religion if Christianity is considered to be one!!! And your evidence for this claim is...??? Although there might be some similarities, their practice and ideology is completely different. They just cannot be in one compartment. Oh, ok. Since you said so! Not very convincing. You're sharing more about your attachment to ideas and beliefs than you are presenting actual facts. Puja room is not a temple, it is a puja room. A mere matter of definition. When all you have is a simple room, that can be a temple of initiation. This could be dissected further. There are such things as temporary or even moveable temples. Samnyasa is not religion, it es LEAVING of all activity. and all your other points are clearly serving your purpose - no clear logic. And the leaving of all (mundane) activity is a religious or cultic one. Other wise you'd not have any restriction.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
On Jan 26, 2009, at 8:50 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2009, at 5:00 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:40 PM, off_world_beings wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. You might want to at least look at a Sanskrit dictionary next time OffWorld. I did. And my translation is accurate. Yours is superficial and incomplete, which is typical for you. Well, by all means, please post your translation and list it's source Too easy: Pu cleaning , purifying. http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/ Ja born or descended from , produced or caused by , born or produced. http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche Wow. That sounds VERY religious to me. Thanks for making my point Off! Good job! BTW, you might want to learn a bit more about Sanskrit roots before making such wild jumps!
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig lengli...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: [...] To say that the word `puja' means `worship' is like saying: Avatar means a person's cartoon version on the internet. On behalf of my avatar, I'd like to express my feelings of dismay. Saijanai Kuhn Too funny Lawson! :)
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
Thanks, that's what I am saying too: TM just by itself is obviously not a religion THerefore, we can close that boring discussion. Just practise it and don't bother about all those theories. And Veda, too, is not a religion. Maybe Hinduism is but Veda is not. Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternal way of life. NO religion. It is a knowledge pertaining to the whole so certainly including religion as any other knowledge. Our root is in Veda, not Hinduism Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: ---Category errors - below. TM is obviously not to be compared to Hollywood starts (apples and bananas). By TM clarify - such as TM in context of the puja and body of knowledge that goes along with it since TM just by itself is obviously not a religion. Not many people are saying it is. (since - obviously per MMY's intention, one can extract TM from the religious matrix and practice it as an athiest or as a technique independent of one's religion. Yes, veneration of a god is religion; and in the braodest sense, one's Guru. The TM puja venerates Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Can't get any more religious than that! TM + puja + knowledge can be considered a Dharmic package within Hinduism. Much of Christianity is dualist dogma based on acceptance and belief; thus both are religious in nature but vastly different, like comparing rodents and elephants. (but both may have a common ancestor). You say practice and ideology are vastly different. Very true. There's plenty of room under the umbrella topic of religion to incorporate vastly different ideologies and practices. We haven't even scratched the surface of the Pleidian religions! You say TM is leaving activity. Fine we can setup a flow chart as follows: A. Religions: a. Dharmic religions, or non-dualist approaches that have Enlightenment as the goal (Cf. the teachings of the Buddha). b. Those dualist religions which bind one to form, ideas, dogmas and practices in and of themselves; e.g. accepting Jesus as one's Savior for example (in the orthodox sense), is all about remission of sins, not Enlightenment. So regardless of the direction or intention of religion, the properties common to both are adequate to fit into the wide umbrella as defined in wiki and various dictionaries. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ wrote: No, it is not religious. Veneration of a person or a Master is not a religious activity. Unless, of course, you consider veneration of Hollywood stars as religious. Moreover, TM cannot be a religion if Christianity is considered to be one!!! Although there might be some similarities, their practice and ideology is completely different. They just cannot be in one compartment. Puja room is not a temple, it is a puja room. Samnyasa is not religion, it es LEAVING of all activity. and all your other points are clearly serving your purpose - no clear logic. With best wishes Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: The late great Sanskrit translator and yogi Sir John Woodroffe probably had access to more insight to traditional Hindu religious practices AND the Christian religious practices of his British homeland than almost anyone since. He noted there really wasn't a huge difference between Hindu religious practices like the TM puja and TM and Roman Catholicism. One is the Cult of Shakti and Shakta, the other is a cult of the Virgin Mary and Jesus/the Father. In fact he details their religious (not scientific or non-sectarian) sameness: amongst Christians, the Catholic Church, like Hinduism, has a full and potent Sadhana in its sacraments (Samskara), temple (Church), private worship (Puja, Upasana) with Upacara bell, light and incense (Ghanta, Dipa, Dhupa), Images or Pratima (hence it has been called idolatrous), devotional rites such as Novenas and the like (Vrata), the threefold Angelus at morn, noon and evening (Samdhya), rosary (Japa), the wearing of Kavacas (Scapulars, Medals, Agnus Dei), pilgrimage (Tirtha), fasting, abstinence and mortification (Tapas), monastic renunciation (Samnyasa), meditation (Dhyana), ending in the union of mystical theology (Samadhi) and so forth. There are other smaller details such for instance as Shanti-abhisheka (Asperges) into which I need not enter here. I may, however, mention the Spiritual Director who occupies the place of the Guru; the worship (Hyperdulia) of the Virgin-Mother which made Svami Vivekananda call the Italian Catholics, Shaktas; and the use of wine (Madya) and bread (corresponding to Mudra) in the Eucharist or Communion Service. Whilst, however, the Blessed Virgin evokes devotion as warm as that
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
2009-01-26
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
I agree, speaking in modernese was surely his intent, as once the vijanamaya kosa is more developed than or excelled to dominate the lower kosas, only escalated levels of universality, love and scientific processes remain prominent though every thought, word and deed. This and the fact that he was taking the TM mission to a large part of the world which is infused with Abahamic religiosity -- a spectrum of religion that has been responsible for a huge volume of the world's bigoted sectarian predation for thousands of years -- a more mature, more adult disposition, such as scientific, became imperative to capture the frame of mind of new prospects to reach inside their inner adult to deal with this sublime process in the manner appropriate for the homo sapien species instead of the baboonery associated with Abrahamic religious history. Oooga Moooga! Who was Abraham? *Find Out Here*: http://Abraham-WhoWasHe.resolve.at/http://abraham-whowashe.resolve.at/ On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 2:34 PM, BillyG. wg...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: The late great Sanskrit translator and yogi Sir John Woodroffe probably had access to more insight to traditional Hindu religious practices AND the Christian religious practices of his British homeland than almost anyone since. He noted there really wasn't a huge difference between Hindu religious practices like the TM puja and TM and Roman Catholicism. One is the Cult of Shakti and Shakta, the other is a cult of the Virgin Mary and Jesus/the Father. In fact he details their religious (not scientific or non-sectarian) sameness: amongst Christians, the Catholic Church, like Hinduism, has a full and potent Sadhana in its sacraments (Samskara), temple (Church), private worship (Puja, Upasana) with Upacara bell, light and incense (Ghanta, Dipa, Dhupa), Images or Pratima (hence it has been called idolatrous), devotional rites such as Novenas and the like (Vrata), the threefold Angelus at morn, noon and evening (Samdhya), rosary (Japa), the wearing of Kavacas (Scapulars, Medals, Agnus Dei), pilgrimage (Tirtha), fasting, abstinence and mortification (Tapas), monastic renunciation (Samnyasa), meditation (Dhyana), ending in the union of mystical theology (Samadhi) and so forth. There are other smaller details such for instance as Shanti-abhisheka (Asperges) into which I need not enter here. I may, however, mention the Spiritual Director who occupies the place of the Guru; the worship (Hyperdulia) of the Virgin-Mother which made Svami Vivekananda call the Italian Catholics, Shaktas; and the use of wine (Madya) and bread (corresponding to Mudra) in the Eucharist or Communion Service. Whilst, however, the Blessed Virgin evokes devotion as warm as that which is here paid to Devi, she is not Devi for she is not God but a creature selected as the vehicle of His incarnation (Avatara). In the Eucharist the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ appearing under the form or accidents of those material substances; so also Tara is Dravamayi, that is, the Saviour in liquid form. (Mahanirvana Tantra xi. 105-107.) In the Catholic Church (though the early practice was otherwise) the laity no longer take wine but bread only, the officiating priest consuming both. Whilst however the outward forms in this case are similar, the inner meaning is different. Those however who contend that eating and drinking are inconsistent with the dignity of worship may be reminded of Tertullian's saying that Christ instituted His great sacrament at a meal. These notions are those of the dualist with all his distinctions. For the Advaitin every function and act may be made a Yajña. Agape or Love Feasts, a kind of Cakra, were held in early times, and discontinued as orthodox practice, on account of abuses to which they led; though they are said still to exist in some of the smaller Christian sects of the day. There are other points of ritual which are peculiar to the Tantra Shastra and of which there is no counterpart in the Catholic ritual such as Nyasa and Yantra. Mantra exists in the form of prayer and as formulae of consecration, but otherwise the subject is conceived of differently here. There are certain gestures (Mudra) made in the ritual, as when consecrating, blessing, and so forth, but they are not so numerous or prominent as they are here. I may some day more fully develop these interesting analogies, but what I have said is for the present sufficient to establish the numerous similarities which exist between the Catholic and Indian Tantrik ritual. Because of these facts the reformed Christian sects have charged the Catholic Church with Paganism. It is in fact the inheritor of very ancient practices but is not necessarily the worse for that. The Hindu finds his Sadhana in the Tantras of the Agama in forms
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyapu...@... wrote: Thanks, that's what I am saying too: TM just by itself is obviously not a religion THerefore, we can close that boring discussion. Just practise it and don't bother about all those theories. Well, I worry my pretty little head about these theories. And Veda, too, is not a religion. Maybe Hinduism is but Veda is not. Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternal way of life. NO religion. It is a knowledge pertaining to the whole so certainly including religion as any other knowledge. Our root is in Veda, not Hinduism Shaas I guess you told us! The eternal way of life is a religious concept. Religion deals with ultimate questions. I get the feeling that to call TM or the Vedas religion minimizes both in the TB's mind. You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. Everything else must fit or be bent to fit the concepts of the Vedas. Meditation is a technique of this religion. Much like taking communion or going to confession is a technique of the Catholic. So Shaas, do you believe in hovering? In Jyotish? In doing the puja? In pulse diagnosis of illness? That east facing homes are better than west facing homes? How religious are you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 26, 2009, at 8:50 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 26, 2009, at 5:00 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:40 PM, off_world_beings wrote: The word 'puja' either means 'preparing for purifying', or 'the birth (begining) of the purifying life' . That is its ACTUAL meaning. You might want to at least look at a Sanskrit dictionary next time OffWorld. I did. And my translation is accurate. Yours is superficial and incomplete, which is typical for you. Well, by all means, please post your translation and list it's source Too easy: Pu cleaning , purifying. http://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/monier/ Ja born or descended from , produced or caused by , born or produced. http://webapps.uni-koeln.de/cgi-bin/tamil/recherche Wow. That sounds VERY religious to me That's because your are religiously brainwashed and you see religion in something that has no religion in it whatsoever. My defnition is correct, and you are working with translations from 19th century out of date dictionaries. What a joke . OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
thank you for your contribution, shaas. always a pleasure to hear from someone with a sound mind. :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyapu...@... wrote: Thanks, that's what I am saying too: TM just by itself is obviously not a religion THerefore, we can close that boring discussion. Just practise it and don't bother about all those theories. And Veda, too, is not a religion. Maybe Hinduism is but Veda is not. Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternal way of life. NO religion. It is a knowledge pertaining to the whole so certainly including religion as any other knowledge. Our root is in Veda, not Hinduism Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: ---Category errors - below. TM is obviously not to be compared to Hollywood starts (apples and bananas). By TM clarify - such as TM in context of the puja and body of knowledge that goes along with it since TM just by itself is obviously not a religion. Not many people are saying it is. (since - obviously per MMY's intention, one can extract TM from the religious matrix and practice it as an athiest or as a technique independent of one's religion. Yes, veneration of a god is religion; and in the braodest sense, one's Guru. The TM puja venerates Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Can't get any more religious than that! TM + puja + knowledge can be considered a Dharmic package within Hinduism. Much of Christianity is dualist dogma based on acceptance and belief; thus both are religious in nature but vastly different, like comparing rodents and elephants. (but both may have a common ancestor). You say practice and ideology are vastly different. Very true. There's plenty of room under the umbrella topic of religion to incorporate vastly different ideologies and practices. We haven't even scratched the surface of the Pleidian religions! You say TM is leaving activity. Fine we can setup a flow chart as follows: A. Religions: a. Dharmic religions, or non-dualist approaches that have Enlightenment as the goal (Cf. the teachings of the Buddha). b. Those dualist religions which bind one to form, ideas, dogmas and practices in and of themselves; e.g. accepting Jesus as one's Savior for example (in the orthodox sense), is all about remission of sins, not Enlightenment. So regardless of the direction or intention of religion, the properties common to both are adequate to fit into the wide umbrella as defined in wiki and various dictionaries. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ wrote: No, it is not religious. Veneration of a person or a Master is not a religious activity. Unless, of course, you consider veneration of Hollywood stars as religious. Moreover, TM cannot be a religion if Christianity is considered to be one!!! Although there might be some similarities, their practice and ideology is completely different. They just cannot be in one compartment. Puja room is not a temple, it is a puja room. Samnyasa is not religion, it es LEAVING of all activity. and all your other points are clearly serving your purpose - no clear logic. With best wishes Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: The late great Sanskrit translator and yogi Sir John Woodroffe probably had access to more insight to traditional Hindu religious practices AND the Christian religious practices of his British homeland than almost anyone since. He noted there really wasn't a huge difference between Hindu religious practices like the TM puja and TM and Roman Catholicism. One is the Cult of Shakti and Shakta, the other is a cult of the Virgin Mary and Jesus/the Father. In fact he details their religious (not scientific or non-sectarian) sameness: amongst Christians, the Catholic Church, like Hinduism, has a full and potent Sadhana in its sacraments (Samskara), temple (Church), private worship (Puja, Upasana) with Upacara bell, light and incense (Ghanta, Dipa, Dhupa), Images or Pratima (hence it has been called idolatrous), devotional rites such as Novenas and the like (Vrata), the threefold Angelus at morn, noon and evening (Samdhya), rosary (Japa), the wearing of Kavacas (Scapulars, Medals, Agnus Dei), pilgrimage (Tirtha), fasting, abstinence and mortification (Tapas), monastic renunciation (Samnyasa), meditation (Dhyana), ending in the union of mystical theology (Samadhi) and so forth. There are other smaller details such for instance as Shanti-abhisheka (Asperges) into which I need not enter here. I may, however, mention the Spiritual Director who
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: [...] To say that the word `puja' means `worship' is like saying: Avatar means a person's cartoon version on the internet. On behalf of my avatar, I'd like to express my feelings of dismay. Saijanai Kuhn Too funny Lawson! :) Actually, people are starting to make a professional rep via their Second LIfe avatars. Zero LInden, for instance, is better known as Zero Linden, than his real life name, even though he's been a programmer longer than I have, and done some significant projects under that persona. Glitteratica Cookie got mention on the Daily Show because of her avatar's name, not her job description, even though it was serious enough that she was invited to testify in a Congressional hearing about virtual worlds. Etc. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. So the so-called Theory of Everything in Physics is a religious theory, hmm? Well, continue to worry your pretty little head... You and your fiends here seem to see religion everywhere! Actually, also nice. With best wishes Shaas --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amritasyaputra amritasyaputra@ wrote: Thanks, that's what I am saying too: TM just by itself is obviously not a religion THerefore, we can close that boring discussion. Just practise it and don't bother about all those theories. Well, I worry my pretty little head about these theories. And Veda, too, is not a religion. Maybe Hinduism is but Veda is not. Veda is Sanatan Dharm, the eternal way of life. NO religion. It is a knowledge pertaining to the whole so certainly including religion as any other knowledge. Our root is in Veda, not Hinduism Shaas I guess you told us! The eternal way of life is a religious concept. Religion deals with ultimate questions. I get the feeling that to call TM or the Vedas religion minimizes both in the TB's mind. You say Veda is more than religion, it is everything. Well, to me, that is a religious concept. Everything else must fit or be bent to fit the concepts of the Vedas. Meditation is a technique of this religion. Much like taking communion or going to confession is a technique of the Catholic. So Shaas, do you believe in hovering? In Jyotish? In doing the puja? In pulse diagnosis of illness? That east facing homes are better than west facing homes? How religious are you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: monkeys aren't demons-- they're cute, lovable, furry monkeys, chattering away to their heart's content. chatter, chatter, chatter go the monkeys, about anything and everything, whether they know what they are chattering about or not. here, have a banana! Fuck you enlightened. Not!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice
First, we have to feed all you fucking monkeys some bananas, let you finish fucking, and then we'll get down to which of you is enlightened or not. Vaj will read each of you a Zen koan. You must immediately write the answer with your shit. Off world we see if the results appear in a peer-reviewed journal and Nabs will check your meditation. Then David Oreo Johnson will crunch the numbers to prove which one of you is enlightened with the noble indifference of King Tony. --- On Sun, 1/25/09, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM puja is religious, as are other elements of TM practice To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:30 PM if we are discussing a subject, i cannot take seriously those who express opinions when they have no experience, or very limited experience regarding the subject being discussed. is that too much to ask? you definitely get a banana-- if you can remember to hold it with your feet. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: .Right! saying a particular body of ideas is monkey-mind is a subjective judgement based on content. Self-Realization is based on transcending content, not evaluating certain ideas and labeling them as monkey-mind. The notion that one must give up certain modes of thought, or contents of thought, or a set of ideas (dogma); is a common Neo- Advaitin fallacy and such ridiculous ideas are certainly not part of MMY's agenda. Using a similar strategy, one might evaluate the recorded statements of Ramana, MMY, the Dalai Lama, Sri Aurobindo, SSRS, SBS, or any other Enlightened persons, saying such talk is monkey-mind. For example, Sri Aurobindo wrote many thousands of verses on the Divine Mother. Is such poetry that of a monkey-mind? I think not. Another Neo-Advaitin non-sequitur. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: since sir john (wtf is that all about?) and you have all of 4 years of TM between you, total -- him, none, and you a few decades ago, your many thousand words fall into the category of monkey chatter. your words are worthy, maybe, of a banana or two, and nothing more... for those who practice TM regularly, TM is the daily experience of transcending 2x a day, alternating with daily activity -- nothing more or less. the Maharishi said that TM is not about thinking, imagination, hallucination, or mood making. trying to explain that to the non TM practicing monkeys here is futile. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: The late great Sanskrit translator and yogi Sir John Woodroffe Very enlightened thinking here...demonize and minimize those whose opinions differ from yours. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
