Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Yep. Ann, this was a marvelous statement on your part. From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits Awesome dear Ann, I have to say I enjoyed Judy's analysis too - it was really beautiful, like you say clear intellectual poetry - how she picked King Baby Barry apart. On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 9:35 PM, awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Logic and analysis can be beautiful, crystalline and pure. When it is thus, there is a kind of gorgeousness manifest, a cleansing akin to what happens to the air after a thunderstorm accompanied by a downpour. It is what is often missing when communication is muddied with circuitous argument, shoot-from-the-hip assertion and downright ill-intentioned accusation. When I read this just now it struck me that Judy was cleaning something up, setting things to rights. That is what clear thinking can do. It is not motivated by self-serving subjectivity but by the need, the desire to get it right, to make it clean. Don't mind me, maybe it is just the chocolate sunday (that I am eating at this moment) talking. But it sure feels true right now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Taking you at your word in this rant Robin's post to raunchy was in no way a rant. and in others, about your willingness to see yourself from points of view other than your own, I'm curious as to how you'll react to a few unrequested observations: The problem with these unrequested observations is that they don't appear to have much of anything to do with the post Barry claims generated them, or with Robin's FFL posts generally (which Barry doesn't read). Robin has dealt with the conceptual errors in Barry's post; let's do a little fisking of Barry's illogic and factual errors for the record: 1. As many have pointed out, how does this letter to Raunchy *not* fit into the category of trolling for TMers in hopes of still attracting adoration, if not actual followers? Who else would CARE about what you felt and continue to feel for Maharishi? This is just a silly failure of logic, given the membership of this forum. It would mean the only people Robin could write to about his feelings for Maharishi without its fitting the category of trolling for TMers would be Emily and Ravi. Plus which, of course, everybody can read all the posts anyway. How about Marek and raunchy, who both expressed very positive feelings for Maharishi--were they trolling for TMers? Lots of people have done that here. Chop-logic. 2. Also as many have pointed out, for all your claims of challenging past assumptions, there seems to be one that you have never challenged, and continue to assert (again, only to TMers, Wrong. He's asserted it to Emily, to Ravi, and to many of the former TMers here. But then Barry doesn't read Robin's posts, so how would he know this? the only group for which this claim would have any caveat or meaning) -- that you were once in Unity Consciousness as defined by MMY. Have you *ever* entertained the notion that you were just experiencing a bout of psychosis that you *interpreted* as a state that would be pleasing to the guy you had a man-crush on (Maharishi)? For ten years? And has Barry ever read Robin's account of the dawning of his Unity Consciousness at Arosa? 3. Also, have you ever considered the possibility that all of the flashy experiences you attribute to having in Maharishi's presence are simply the result *OF* having a rather severe man-crush on him? This is a question that anyone reading that you have spent the last 25 years of your life living with a guy who seems to have a similar man-crush on you might ask. Just sayin'... It would be very difficult to find anything in what Robin wrote to indicate that his friend has a man-crush on him. And even if that were the case, what would that have to do with the speculation that Robin's flashy experiences in MMY's presence were generated by a man-crush? That's not even bad logic; it's a complete non sequitur. 4. Have you ever pondered the *extraordinary* ramifications of stating that my perception of a matter concerning myself was incorrect happened for the *first* time in your life at a rather advanced age? Ooopsie, that isn't quite what Robin wrote: The real turning point, however, raunchy, came when my best friend (although he was not at this time) demonstrated to me that my perception of a matter concerning myself was incorrect, and that his perception of me was the objective one. I had never experienced anything like this in my life: someone proving they knew me better than I knew myself
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
I was around Bevan enough to know that if that son of a bitch is a Master, I'd rather go live on Mars. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 5:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: He attained a First Class at Cambridge [that means a lot more than you know]. He lived in Maharishi's ashram in Rishikesh. He knew Maharishi probably as well as anyone. He is a very smart and thoughtful person--he was once a child, he had a loving mother. He knows from inside what Maharishi is all about. He has made an irrevocable decision to bear it out to the end, as a true apostle of Maharishi and all his Teachings. Maharishi have made, and is continuing to make, a remarkable number of people eligible for Masterhood. Bevan being one of better known of these blessed souls. It is said the the Lord Buddha made 500 people enlightened. I think we will do better. Maharishi, River Rhine, Germany 1982
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
lamb to the slaughter Jason, time to round up all those fierce warriors of yours... From: Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 5:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits But that does not mean that you are wrong. You may very well have diagnosed me perfectly--but I doubt it. Robin, it's these kind of statements that worry me. You sometimes imply that you 'were' enlightened and sometimes you imply that you were passing yourself as enlightened. Sometimes the contradictions come in the same sentence or paragraph. I seriously doubt if it's possible for anyone to get enlightened by this love for another man, even if it happens to be Maharishi. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: Dear Barry, I think, contrary to what I would have expected, you have raised some significant points here. I am not sure how I would go about answering you. I have had, up until reading your post today, a certain way of seeing myself and the world. Perhaps in some sense, that has been altered by reading--three times now--your post. I don't think, though, it is fair to expect me to respond in full--I mean immediately. There is a lot to digest here--not to mention allow myself to even think might be true. I just don't believe you have a right to criticize me like this. Why should I accept the judgment of someone who has never met me? You have never been friendly towards me; why should I believe you have anything to tell me, Barry? If any of what you have said here is actually true, it is only unconsciously so; I did not set out--as far as I know--to get a following. But that does not mean that you are wrong. You may very well have diagnosed me perfectly--but I doubt it. Thanks anyway, Barry; but I really don't see how I can do anything more than just say: I will think hard about all that you have said to me, but it will be very hard to accept that it is true. Please give my best to Curtis. Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Dear Robin, For some reason, possibly the result of reading about compassion and deciding to subject myself to one of your rants *out* of compassion, I actually read the post below. Taking you at your word in this rant and in others, about your willingness to see yourself from points of view other than your own, I'm curious as to how you'll react to a few unrequested observations: 1. As many have pointed out, how does this letter to Raunchy *not* fit into the category of trolling for TMers in hopes of still attracting adoration, if not actual followers? Who else would CARE about what you felt and continue to feel for Maharishi? 2. Also as many have pointed out, for all your claims of challenging past assumptions, there seems to be one that you have never challenged, and continue to assert (again, only to TMers, the only group for which this claim would have any caveat or meaning) -- that you were once in Unity Consciousness as defined by MMY. Have you *ever* entertained the notion that you were just experiencing a bout of psychosis that you *interpreted* as a state that would be pleasing to the guy you had a man-crush on (Maharishi)? 3. Also, have you ever considered the possibility that all of the flashy experiences you attribute to having in Maharishi's presence are simply the result *OF* having a rather severe man-crush on him? This is a question that anyone reading that you have spent the last 25 years of your life living with a guy who seems to have a similar man-crush on you might ask. Just sayin'... 4. Have you ever pondered the *extraordinary* ramifications of stating that my perception of a matter concerning myself was incorrect happened for the *first* time in your life at a rather advanced age? That statement is pretty much a self-diagnosis of a person whose entire life to that point had been spent under the influence of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I would assert that no one *not* suffering from NPD could have possibly reached such an age without encountering a few things about himself or herself that they'd been incorrect about. 5. Have you ever considered the possibility that one of the reasons you still claim to hold Maharishi to be so important and so powerful is that you're still trying to butter up the only possible audience for your narcissistic ramblings about yourself and your borrowed philosophy -- TMers or former TMers? 6. Have you ever considered the possibility that you *projected* onto him all of the experiences you claim came *from* Maharishi, and that one of the reasons you did this is just to avoid dealing with the possibility that you had an enormous man-crush on him? You admit that the love you felt for him was the highest love you'd ever experienced
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Ha ha ha. That's pretty funny actually. From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: But that does not mean that you are wrong. You may very well have diagnosed me perfectly--but I doubt it. Robin, it's these kind of statements that worry me. You sometimes imply that you 'were' enlightened and sometimes you imply that you were passing yourself as enlightened. Sometimes the contradictions come in the same sentence or paragraph. Hey, Jason--and anyone else who finds themselves occasionally befuddled by Robin's irony--here's a surefire way to tell whether he's using irony: If he says or implies that he might not have been enlightened, was never enlightened, or was only pretending to be enlightened, he's being ironic. Oh, and if he says or implies that he's *still* enlightened, he's also being ironic.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:57 PM, authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Ha ha ha. That's pretty funny actually. So simple when you know the secret code. ;-) Glad to see you back, Emily, missed you a whole lot. I long suffered being with a person who had no understanding of irony, sarcasm, playfulness. IMHO - It just shows a lack of intelligence and emotional maturity, living in a highly fantasized world - Barry, Jason, Steve, Xeno, et al - too many idiots on this list. From: authfriend authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: But that does not mean that you are wrong. You may very well have diagnosed me perfectly--but I doubt it. Robin, it's these kind of statements that worry me. You sometimes imply that you 'were' enlightened and sometimes you imply that you were passing yourself as enlightened. Sometimes the contradictions come in the same sentence or paragraph. Hey, Jason--and anyone else who finds themselves occasionally befuddled by Robin's irony--here's a surefire way to tell whether he's using irony: If he says or implies that he might not have been enlightened, was never enlightened, or was only pretending to be enlightened, he's being ironic. Oh, and if he says or implies that he's *still* enlightened, he's also being ironic.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
My sense of humor has actually returned and expanded since spending time on FFL. In part, I think because of the fact that the internet provides a buffer and allows for more objective review or subjective perception without the other person in the room to influence the space. It allows for all kinds of creative interpretation. And, because there is actually an amazing amount of funny and perceptive stuff here for the reverent and the irreverent alike. I've thought a lot about what Curtis said to me re: it seeming like FFL is here to amuse me (paraphrased). I hate to be brutally honest, but in fact, I did start laughing again after a good several years of being *very serious* and I must say, life is nicer this way. I laugh mostly in the context of life or predicaments or the human condition though and not in a mean, shaming or school-yard way. Sometimes it takes me awhile, but I don't sweat the small stuff nearly as much as I used to. Miss you Curtis. In your absence, I will be posting a list of your motivations for departure shortly. Alright, bad joke. We're cool. I'm going to try that recipe for eggplant; the fact that it has pecorino in it is intriguing. From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 1:57 PM, authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Ha ha ha. That's pretty funny actually. So simple when you know the secret code. ;-) Glad to see you back, Emily, missed you a whole lot. I long suffered being with a person who had no understanding of irony, sarcasm, playfulness. IMHO - It just shows a lack of intelligence and emotional maturity, living in a highly fantasized world - Barry, Jason, Steve, Xeno, et al - too many idiots on this list. From: authfriend authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2012 7:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: But that does not mean that you are wrong. You may very well have diagnosed me perfectly--but I doubt it. Robin, it's these kind of statements that worry me. You sometimes imply that you 'were' enlightened and sometimes you imply that you were passing yourself as enlightened. Sometimes the contradictions come in the same sentence or paragraph. Hey, Jason--and anyone else who finds themselves occasionally befuddled by Robin's irony--here's a surefire way to tell whether he's using irony: If he says or implies that he might not have been enlightened, was never enlightened, or was only pretending to be enlightened, he's being ironic. Oh, and if he says or implies that he's *still* enlightened, he's also being ironic.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Awesome dear Ann, I have to say I enjoyed Judy's analysis too - it was really beautiful, like you say clear intellectual poetry - how she picked King Baby Barry apart. On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 9:35 PM, awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: ** Logic and analysis can be beautiful, crystalline and pure. When it is thus, there is a kind of gorgeousness manifest, a cleansing akin to what happens to the air after a thunderstorm accompanied by a downpour. It is what is often missing when communication is muddied with circuitous argument, shoot-from-the-hip assertion and downright ill-intentioned accusation. When I read this just now it struck me that Judy was cleaning something up, setting things to rights. That is what clear thinking can do. It is not motivated by self-serving subjectivity but by the need, the desire to get it right, to make it clean. Don't mind me, maybe it is just the chocolate sunday (that I am eating at this moment) talking. But it sure feels true right now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Taking you at your word in this rant Robin's post to raunchy was in no way a rant. and in others, about your willingness to see yourself from points of view other than your own, I'm curious as to how you'll react to a few unrequested observations: The problem with these unrequested observations is that they don't appear to have much of anything to do with the post Barry claims generated them, or with Robin's FFL posts generally (which Barry doesn't read). Robin has dealt with the conceptual errors in Barry's post; let's do a little fisking of Barry's illogic and factual errors for the record: 1. As many have pointed out, how does this letter to Raunchy *not* fit into the category of trolling for TMers in hopes of still attracting adoration, if not actual followers? Who else would CARE about what you felt and continue to feel for Maharishi? This is just a silly failure of logic, given the membership of this forum. It would mean the only people Robin could write to about his feelings for Maharishi without its fitting the category of trolling for TMers would be Emily and Ravi. Plus which, of course, everybody can read all the posts anyway. How about Marek and raunchy, who both expressed very positive feelings for Maharishi--were they trolling for TMers? Lots of people have done that here. Chop-logic. 2. Also as many have pointed out, for all your claims of challenging past assumptions, there seems to be one that you have never challenged, and continue to assert (again, only to TMers, Wrong. He's asserted it to Emily, to Ravi, and to many of the former TMers here. But then Barry doesn't read Robin's posts, so how would he know this? the only group for which this claim would have any caveat or meaning) -- that you were once in Unity Consciousness as defined by MMY. Have you *ever* entertained the notion that you were just experiencing a bout of psychosis that you *interpreted* as a state that would be pleasing to the guy you had a man-crush on (Maharishi)? For ten years? And has Barry ever read Robin's account of the dawning of his Unity Consciousness at Arosa? 3. Also, have you ever considered the possibility that all of the flashy experiences you attribute to having in Maharishi's presence are simply the result *OF* having a rather severe man-crush on him? This is a question that anyone reading that you have spent the last 25 years of your life living with a guy who seems to have a similar man-crush on you might ask. Just sayin'... It would be very difficult to find anything in what Robin wrote to indicate that his friend has a man-crush on him. And even if that were the case, what would that have to do with the speculation that Robin's flashy experiences in MMY's presence were generated by a man-crush? That's not even bad logic; it's a complete non sequitur. 4. Have you ever pondered the *extraordinary* ramifications of stating that my perception of a matter concerning myself was incorrect happened for the *first* time in your life at a rather advanced age? Ooopsie, that isn't quite what Robin wrote: The real turning point, however, raunchy, came when my best friend (although he was not at this time) demonstrated to me that my perception of a matter concerning myself was incorrect, and that his perception of me was the objective one. I had never experienced anything like this in my life: someone proving they knew me better than I knew myself. That statement is pretty much a self-diagnosis of a person whose entire life to that point had been spent under the influence of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I would assert that no one *not* suffering from NPD could
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
FWIW, I sense that a lot of souls chose to incarnate during this extraordinary time when it would be RELATIVELY easy to become realized, whatever the heck that means! These souls chose to incarnate and get on a spiritual path even though they knew that they would have huge karmic debts to repay in the process. For myself it is a huge karmic debt I have to repay concerning abandonment. Others have other debts and compassion, or what the Buddhists call lovingkindness, seems to be the perfect universal solvent for this extraordinary time and these brave souls. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 3:51 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits Running my own text through the Synopsizer I and others have often wished you would employ :-), I think I can come up with a much more concise view of my thesis: It seems to me that another way of viewing the Robin Carlsen Story is as the multi-decade reaction of one man to having been rejected by the guy he had a man-crush on. IMO that description characterizes your adventures and misadventures as well as any other. I'm not saying that it's the *only* way to view your story, or the correct way. I'm just stating that it's a valid way of viewing it, and far more Occam's Razor-like than your own. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Dear Robin, For some reason, possibly the result of reading about compassion and deciding to subject myself to one of your rants *out* of compassion, I actually read the post below. Taking you at your word in this rant and in others, about your willingness to see yourself from points of view other than your own, I'm curious as to how you'll react to a few unrequested observations: 1. As many have pointed out, how does this letter to Raunchy *not* fit into the category of trolling for TMers in hopes of still attracting adoration, if not actual followers? Who else would CARE about what you felt and continue to feel for Maharishi? 2. Also as many have pointed out, for all your claims of challenging past assumptions, there seems to be one that you have never challenged, and continue to assert (again, only to TMers, the only group for which this claim would have any caveat or meaning) -- that you were once in Unity Consciousness as defined by MMY. Have you *ever* entertained the notion that you were just experiencing a bout of psychosis that you *interpreted* as a state that would be pleasing to the guy you had a man-crush on (Maharishi)? 3. Also, have you ever considered the possibility that all of the flashy experiences you attribute to having in Maharishi's presence are simply the result *OF* having a rather severe man-crush on him? This is a question that anyone reading that you have spent the last 25 years of your life living with a guy who seems to have a similar man-crush on you might ask. Just sayin'... 4. Have you ever pondered the *extraordinary* ramifications of stating that my perception of a matter concerning myself was incorrect happened for the *first* time in your life at a rather advanced age? That statement is pretty much a self-diagnosis of a person whose entire life to that point had been spent under the influence of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I would assert that no one *not* suffering from NPD could have possibly reached such an age without encountering a few things about himself or herself that they'd been incorrect about. 5. Have you ever considered the possibility that one of the reasons you still claim to hold Maharishi to be so important and so powerful is that you're still trying to butter up the only possible audience for your narcissistic ramblings about yourself and your borrowed philosophy -- TMers or former TMers? 6. Have you ever considered the possibility that you *projected* onto him all of the experiences you claim came *from* Maharishi, and that one of the reasons you did this is just to avoid dealing with the possibility that you had an enormous man-crush on him? You admit that the love you felt for him was the highest love you'd ever experienced, but don't seem to deal with the ramifications of that. What's up with that? Are you saying that your love for him was higher than your love for your wife? Adoring a holy man to that degree is OK, but adoring just another man isn't? I'm penning these questions NOT because I'm seeking to discuss or argue them with you. Don't embarrass yourself by pretending that I've entered into one of your confrontations and must do battle with you. That isn't going to happen, so don't get your hopes up. :-) I'm just passing them along to see if you are capable of realizing that there are other ways of seeing you and your story than the ways you see it...and, dare I say it...want to see it. My original impression of you remains
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
The ego is what it is, it functions the way it functions. Among other things, as a created being, the ego has a vested interest in its own survival, in not looking at itself for the temporary energy pattern it is, but rather as a very pleasing Being unto itself. The ego functions by its own logic, and nothing else. Its logic allows it to do what it pleases to remain as it is, to perpetuate the basic energy patterns that make up the form of that particular ego. The ego will use any means to continue its existence and perpetuate its own energy pattern. It will use even legitimate spiritual energy and knowledge, swooping into the energy and knowledge and using it for its own egoic ends. Thus Maharishi who had a firm grounding in Vedic knowledge began at a certain point to use the dissemination of the knowledge to fuel his own egoic agenda, which I and others have described in other posts. I think you are asking me if I am willing to concede that he had a Good Ego that did Good for the world and the answer is no I do not. He did among other gurus from the east serve to introduce more awareness of meditation into the West. Most of the people who did or do TM believe he was the major influence in introducing meditation to the West, but that is because their opinions are biased by having followed him to some degree themselves. Followers of Yogananda would give him the credit, Muktananda devotees give Muktananda the credit and so on. So Maharishi had an influence in society, and many did consciously experience some degree of Pure Awareness as a result of TM practice. So did those who did and do other techniques. The TM Movement often touts the number of people who have been initiated into TM. But many have stopped doing TM for many reasons. The TM landscape is littered with basket cases, people whose lives and ability to function and do well in the world were short circuited by practice of TM and by associating with the Movement itself. That in my opinion is one of the things that has to be addressed in any honest discussion of the Movement and its effect on the world. As to the assertion that the Maharishi Effect and Yogic Flying is going to do all this great stuff, look its been 60 years, with about 36 of those years having groups of people practicing the flying sutra together. How long do you wait? If the Movement were gonna create world peace it would have done so by now. Relationship of body and akasha – lightness of cotton fibre is not gonna create world peace no matter how much we might want to believe so. To sum up, some people did get good things from their private practice of TM and continue to do so. Few people ever get any good out of messing with the Movement. But I do realize that no one is gonna change their mind about their concept of Maharishi and his effect. The deal is that all of us identify ourselves to some extent with what we do, what we wear, social status, bank account etc. Folks on the spiritual path like to disparage doctors, lawyers and socialites for doing so while we are busily identifying ourselves with our spiritual practice or guru. There is no difference between someone who identifies themselves as the object of perception as a doctor who makes a ton of money and a spiritual meditator who is saving the world by doing TM or whatever their chosen method of spiritual practice may be. It is still being object referral rather than self-referral, identifying ourselves with the Self. So some good and some not so good has come out of M being on the planet and doing his thing. Lots of people have not been able to believe that he could have the energy he had and still manipulate and mis-use people for his own egoic ends. I do. One can have tremendous power and energy and still be in ego and mis-use the power. Maharishi did. If you don’t believe it, just look at the Movement. It is his Movement, his creation. Look at the way the Movement and its leaders have always behaved. That is his creation. Many have for years created in their minds a separation between M and the Movement. It isn’t logical to do so. When people create something the energy of the creator goes into it and perpetuates it. If you believe that he was this pristine icon of do-gooder-ness and the Movement people just screwed everything up on their own, then he would have to have been completely oblivious to what was going on around him and would have to have been an incompetent manager and he most certainly was neither. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 11:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: In response to what is quoted here from Robin, in my opinion the problem was always that with someone with the tremendous energy of Maharishi (and by energy I mean the palpable energy
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
I'm just saying that anyone can look at any behavior and talk about it with different language. A religious person might use the language of religion and talk about sin. A psychologist might use the language of psychology and talk about neuroses, etc. A neuroscientist might talk about behavior in terms of brain chemistry. Like that, I'm talking about behavior from the perspective of karma. Or what goes around comes around. In reference to the behavior of a lot of people I know, including several I only know via FFL, it seems that a lot of people on spiritual paths have some heavy duty karmic debts to deal with in this lifetime. I'd put myself and Robin and Barry in this category, in their case simply by the life events they've reported here. Lots of people I know, even some who have been told that they're in UC, have discovered that being realized is not what they thought it would be. I think even famous teachers like Adyashanti talk about this. I'm taking them all at their word. I started TM because Maharishi said we would fulfill all our desires. Not so spiritual. Now I'd say I'm more focused on emotional healing. Again, not so spiritual as a lot of people I know. And like most, I have my moments of pride and my moments of humbleness. From: oxcart49 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 8:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: FWIW, I sense that a lot of souls chose to incarnate during this extraordinary time when it would be RELATIVELY easy to become realized, whatever the heck that means! These souls chose to incarnate and get on a spiritual path even though they knew that they would have huge karmic debts to repay in the process. For myself it is a huge karmic debt I have to repay concerning abandonment. Others have other debts and compassion, or what the Buddhists call lovingkindness, seems to be the perfect universal solvent for this extraordinary time and these brave souls. I am lost here. What are you actually referring to Share? Pardon me, but this does not appear to address anything that was written below. Please clarify. And you used the word realized followed by whatever the heck that means. Excuse me again but how could you pretend you don't have some inkling of what to be realized means after so many years of study, practice and continued pursuing of spiritual goals? Or are you just being modest? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 3:51 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits  Running my own text through the Synopsizer I and others have often wished you would employ :-), I think I can come up with a much more concise view of my thesis: It seems to me that another way of viewing the Robin Carlsen Story is as the multi-decade reaction of one man to having been rejected by the guy he had a man-crush on. IMO that description characterizes your adventures and misadventures as well as any other. I'm not saying that it's the *only* way to view your story, or the correct way. I'm just stating that it's a valid way of viewing it, and far more Occam's Razor-like than your own. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Dear Robin, For some reason, possibly the result of reading about compassion and deciding to subject myself to one of your rants *out* of compassion, I actually read the post below. Taking you at your word in this rant and in others, about your willingness to see yourself from points of view other than your own, I'm curious as to how you'll react to a few unrequested observations: 1. As many have pointed out, how does this letter to Raunchy *not* fit into the category of trolling for TMers in hopes of still attracting adoration, if not actual followers? Who else would CARE about what you felt and continue to feel for Maharishi? 2. Also as many have pointed out, for all your claims of challenging past assumptions, there seems to be one that you have never challenged, and continue to assert (again, only to TMers, the only group for which this claim would have any caveat or meaning) -- that you were once in Unity Consciousness as defined by MMY. Have you *ever* entertained the notion that you were just experiencing a bout of psychosis that you *interpreted* as a state that would be pleasing to the guy you had a man-crush on (Maharishi)? 3. Also, have you ever considered the possibility that all of the flashy experiences you attribute to having in Maharishi's presence are simply the result *OF* having a rather severe man-crush on him? This is a question that anyone reading that you
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Excellent point. Except that Bhairitu asked me about non TM people. I don't fall into that category. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 1:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Yourself maybe? Excellent point, and exactly the same one I was hoping to make in the passage of mine that Alex quoted from a while back, which was originally about the phenomenon of darshan or transmission: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/55423 There are some traditions that explain this phenomenon in terms of recognition. You sit in the presence of someone who is firing on more cylinders than you are. They are higher, or in a more advanced state of con- sciousness. More aspects of their being have woken up. And in that person's presence, you find that similar aspects of YOUR being wake up. Many have been taught that such waking ups pretty much have to come from outside of ourselves, and that they are transmitted or given to us by teachers or holy people or whatever. Seems to me that this belief ignores the evidence of history (most of the enlight- ened beings we've been told about came to their realizations while *on their own*, not as the result of anyone doing anything to them) and the basic idea of who is responsible for us realizing our own enlightenment (us). While I understand this idea and its prevalence (what *other* belief is going to spring up in a tradition in which one had to pay for every step of the process, and receive it from someone who gives it?), I think it's not the healthiest way to look at the process of spiritual development. Feeling that one needs a teacher or a darshan-giver or someone to transmit realization to them is IMO one of the most common ways that people put off the process of realization. From: Share Long sharelong60@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits I really love what Alex says about WD gazing. AND for me it felt too top down when it was teachers and mentors being the gazers and everyone else being the gazees. It felt more right to me when everyone gazed with everyone else. Probably my authority issues involved. Lots of people liked the gazing a lot. I also know of shaktipat given by touch and have experienced it here in FF. Besides TM, long list and the word impressed is not at all the right word: I am forever grateful to the lineage of Kundalini Care in Knoxville, especially the 2 living exponents Shivarpita and Swamiji; I'm grateful to Ammachi and Mother Meera and Kurnamayi; I love Kwan Yin and Krishna Das' guru but have only seen pictures of them; I have huge respect for David Deida and John Douglas and John Newton and his teacher Howard Wills; I go deep with the writing of Adyashanti and Francis Lucille; and with the inquiry of Lester Levenson and Byron Katie; I love gazing with Braco and doing Spring Forest Qigong with Master Chunyi Lin. I've probably forgotten somebody (-: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits  In my tradition shaktipat is given by touch. A lot of other traditions do it this way. Did you know that Maharishi also gave shaktipat when he first taught meditation? What non-TM people have you been impressed by? On 10/16/2012 02:06 PM, Share Long wrote: Silently making eye contact and I do remember the word shakitpat being used a few times. In the beginning only teachers and mentors gazed with others. Now everyone gazes with everyone. Since I didn't like it, I'm probably not the best to describe its benefits. How is shaktipat given in your tradition? guy at the gas station=Buddha At the Gas Pump? Impressed? Most recently I have been impressed by Dr. Nader because he seems brilliant AND compassionate AND down to earth. He is leading a very human life with a wife and children and a medical practice. From: Bhairitu noozguru@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits What is the gazing? I've been taught to give shaktipat by my tantra guru but it doesn't involve any gazing. Sometimes I wonder if these people had any authentic teacher or just some charlatan from India. There are probably more than a few Indians in the US who have learned tantra and some are astrologers and others are quiet maybe helping
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
I've also been in the presence of people who have what I call voice. That is their voice transmits shaktipat. Kate Winslet and Harvey Keitel: perfect casting for Holy Smoke IMO. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits Yes there is more than one way of giving shaktipat. My teacher knows a remote technique too but hasn't taught me it. If you can find the movie Holy Smoke by Jane Campion (it's up on YouTube in parts and available streaming on Amazon) the opening has a scene with Kate Winslet getting shaktipat. Campion seems to have some knowledge of TM because she has a group checking session in the movie Sweetie which is available on Hulu, VUDU and iTunes. On 10/17/2012 04:35 AM, Share Long wrote: Setting the record straight: the comment about shaktipat by touch was made by Bhairitu. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 3:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits Bhairitu wrote: In my tradition shaktipat is given by touch. A lot of other traditions do it this way. Did you know that Maharishi also gave shaktipat when he first taught meditation? Maharishi did that to the end, mainly by sight.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
In response to what is quoted here from Robin, in my opinion the problem was always that with someone with the tremendous energy of Maharishi (and by energy I mean the palpable energy field around him that some people could feel) coupled with his oratory abilities and his drive and knowledge, but PRIMARILY because of the energy around him, no one ever stopped to consider that a person can have that kind of energy and charisma and STILL have ego. Think of your own ego, and imagine the energy you felt around M funneled through your ego and guided and co-opted by that ego - that is what we had with Maharishi - tremendous Divine Energy funneled through a big ego. I still say if you believe he was enlightened in the way enlightenment is described in the Vedas, then much of what he did personally and nothing of what the Movement did makes any sense. If you realize he was using his power and energy to have a hell of an ego trip, replete with lots of babes, oodles of money and the oft repeated experience of manipulating people AND getting to set himself up as the Big Cheese then everything he did and everything the Movement did and continues to do makes total sense. From: khazana108 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 6:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: I have decided that Maharishi was more seductive and entrancing and enthralling than the most beautiful woman in the world--the spiritual substituting here for the erotic. And yet for all that, I believe Maharishi was a lie. But I would be maybe 40% of the person I am now had I not known and devoted myself to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and his Teachings. And he allowed us to have the opportunity to initiate someone into TM: no one but an initiator in the early seventies can know what that was like. No one since Saint Peter has known what the experience was like to be around Maharishi. Christ took Peter away from his fishing; Maharishi took us away from psychedelics. It is a story that has hardly begun to be told. Oh well... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RhZDGLEXM
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Setting the record straight: the comment about shaktipat by touch was made by Bhairitu. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 3:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits Bhairitu wrote: In my tradition shaktipat is given by touch. A lot of other traditions do it this way. Did you know that Maharishi also gave shaktipat when he first taught meditation? Maharishi did that to the end, mainly by sight.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Thanks, makes me chuckle even with second viewing (-: From: oxcart49 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:54 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Silently making eye contact and I do remember the word shakitpat being used a few times. In the beginning only teachers and mentors gazed with others. Now everyone gazes with everyone.  Since I didn't like it, I'm probably not the best to describe its benefits. How is shaktipat given in your tradition? guy at the gas station=Buddha At the Gas Pump? Impressed? Most recently I have been impressed by Dr. Nader because he seems brilliant AND compassionate AND down to earth. He is leading a very human life with a wife and children and a medical practice. From: Bhairitu noozguru@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits  What is the gazing? I've been taught to give shaktipat by my tantra guru but it doesn't involve any gazing. Sometimes I wonder if these people had any authentic teacher or just some charlatan from India. There are probably more than a few Indians in the US who have learned tantra and some are astrologers and others are quiet maybe helping someone if they ask. And then there is the guy at the gas station who decided to call himself a Swami for some extra money. It's a good thing to spend a few months testing a teacher and boning up on the field through books such as Dr. Robert Svoboda's excellent trilogy (on what it is like to be a westerner learning from an authentic tantric). I would also be interested in what kind of things impress people? On 10/16/2012 10:55 AM, Share Long wrote: laughing because different strokes, etc. I rarely liked the gazing. OTOH, I wasn't comfortable attending and NOT participating in gazing. And they don't like people coming late to avoid the gazing... WDM gave me a steady spiritual family when I first left campus. I'll always be grateful for that. Even so, I was never looking for another theory of consciounsess, etc. so I didn't mind their lack of that. And I do think the whole mutuality angle is an important one that very few others discuss. Didn't go last night but am busting with curiosity about it (-: From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: And it cost $20 too. I see Bonder as a guy with a few ideas, which may or may not be helpful to some people. Waking Down is a small, niche path that is certainly not for everyone. I have heard him twice, and can't say I have been overwhelmingly impressed. I wasn't at all impressed the first time I went to see him and Linda at the FF library, about 10 years ago. But, on his next trip to FF, he was here with Pascal Salesses, a WD teacher who had just moved to FF, and I felt a connection with her. I'm grateful that Saniel started WD, but I've always connected better with some of the other teachers. And, I can't even begin to get through his books. For me, the WD experience had nothing to do with ideas; it was all about the gazing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Yes there is more than one way of giving shaktipat. My teacher knows a remote technique too but hasn't taught me it. If you can find the movie Holy Smoke by Jane Campion (it's up on YouTube in parts and available streaming on Amazon) the opening has a scene with Kate Winslet getting shaktipat. Campion seems to have some knowledge of TM because she has a group checking session in the movie Sweetie which is available on Hulu, VUDU and iTunes. On 10/17/2012 04:35 AM, Share Long wrote: Setting the record straight: the comment about shaktipat by touch was made by Bhairitu. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 3:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits Bhairitu wrote: In my tradition shaktipat is given by touch. A lot of other traditions do it this way. Did you know that Maharishi also gave shaktipat when he first taught meditation? Maharishi did that to the end, mainly by sight.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
laughing because different strokes, etc. I rarely liked the gazing. OTOH, I wasn't comfortable attending and NOT participating in gazing. And they don't like people coming late to avoid the gazing... WDM gave me a steady spiritual family when I first left campus. I'll always be grateful for that. Even so, I was never looking for another theory of consciounsess, etc. so I didn't mind their lack of that. And I do think the whole mutuality angle is an important one that very few others discuss. Didn't go last night but am busting with curiosity about it (-: From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: And it cost $20 too. I see Bonder as a guy with a few ideas, which may or may not be helpful to some people. Waking Down is a small, niche path that is certainly not for everyone. I have heard him twice, and can't say I have been overwhelmingly impressed. I wasn't at all impressed the first time I went to see him and Linda at the FF library, about 10 years ago. But, on his next trip to FF, he was here with Pascal Salesses, a WD teacher who had just moved to FF, and I felt a connection with her. I'm grateful that Saniel started WD, but I've always connected better with some of the other teachers. And, I can't even begin to get through his books. For me, the WD experience had nothing to do with ideas; it was all about the gazing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
What is the gazing? I've been taught to give shaktipat by my tantra guru but it doesn't involve any gazing. Sometimes I wonder if these people had any authentic teacher or just some charlatan from India. There are probably more than a few Indians in the US who have learned tantra and some are astrologers and others are quiet maybe helping someone if they ask. And then there is the guy at the gas station who decided to call himself a Swami for some extra money. It's a good thing to spend a few months testing a teacher and boning up on the field through books such as Dr. Robert Svoboda's excellent trilogy (on what it is like to be a westerner learning from an authentic tantric). I would also be interested in what kind of things impress people? On 10/16/2012 10:55 AM, Share Long wrote: laughing because different strokes, etc. I rarely liked the gazing. OTOH, I wasn't comfortable attending and NOT participating in gazing. And they don't like people coming late to avoid the gazing... WDM gave me a steady spiritual family when I first left campus. I'll always be grateful for that. Even so, I was never looking for another theory of consciounsess, etc. so I didn't mind their lack of that. And I do think the whole mutuality angle is an important one that very few others discuss. Didn't go last night but am busting with curiosity about it (-: From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: And it cost $20 too. I see Bonder as a guy with a few ideas, which may or may not be helpful to some people. Waking Down is a small, niche path that is certainly not for everyone. I have heard him twice, and can't say I have been overwhelmingly impressed. I wasn't at all impressed the first time I went to see him and Linda at the FF library, about 10 years ago. But, on his next trip to FF, he was here with Pascal Salesses, a WD teacher who had just moved to FF, and I felt a connection with her. I'm grateful that Saniel started WD, but I've always connected better with some of the other teachers. And, I can't even begin to get through his books. For me, the WD experience had nothing to do with ideas; it was all about the gazing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Silently making eye contact and I do remember the word shakitpat being used a few times. In the beginning only teachers and mentors gazed with others. Now everyone gazes with everyone. Since I didn't like it, I'm probably not the best to describe its benefits. How is shaktipat given in your tradition? guy at the gas station=Buddha At the Gas Pump? Impressed? Most recently I have been impressed by Dr. Nader because he seems brilliant AND compassionate AND down to earth. He is leading a very human life with a wife and children and a medical practice. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits What is the gazing? I've been taught to give shaktipat by my tantra guru but it doesn't involve any gazing. Sometimes I wonder if these people had any authentic teacher or just some charlatan from India. There are probably more than a few Indians in the US who have learned tantra and some are astrologers and others are quiet maybe helping someone if they ask. And then there is the guy at the gas station who decided to call himself a Swami for some extra money. It's a good thing to spend a few months testing a teacher and boning up on the field through books such as Dr. Robert Svoboda's excellent trilogy (on what it is like to be a westerner learning from an authentic tantric). I would also be interested in what kind of things impress people? On 10/16/2012 10:55 AM, Share Long wrote: laughing because different strokes, etc. I rarely liked the gazing. OTOH, I wasn't comfortable attending and NOT participating in gazing. And they don't like people coming late to avoid the gazing... WDM gave me a steady spiritual family when I first left campus. I'll always be grateful for that. Even so, I was never looking for another theory of consciounsess, etc. so I didn't mind their lack of that. And I do think the whole mutuality angle is an important one that very few others discuss. Didn't go last night but am busting with curiosity about it (-: From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: And it cost $20 too. I see Bonder as a guy with a few ideas, which may or may not be helpful to some people. Waking Down is a small, niche path that is certainly not for everyone. I have heard him twice, and can't say I have been overwhelmingly impressed. I wasn't at all impressed the first time I went to see him and Linda at the FF library, about 10 years ago. But, on his next trip to FF, he was here with Pascal Salesses, a WD teacher who had just moved to FF, and I felt a connection with her. I'm grateful that Saniel started WD, but I've always connected better with some of the other teachers. And, I can't even begin to get through his books. For me, the WD experience had nothing to do with ideas; it was all about the gazing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
In my tradition shaktipat is given by touch. A lot of other traditions do it this way. Did you know that Maharishi also gave shaktipat when he first taught meditation? What non-TM people have you been impressed by? On 10/16/2012 02:06 PM, Share Long wrote: Silently making eye contact and I do remember the word shakitpat being used a few times. In the beginning only teachers and mentors gazed with others. Now everyone gazes with everyone. Since I didn't like it, I'm probably not the best to describe its benefits. How is shaktipat given in your tradition? guy at the gas station=Buddha At the Gas Pump? Impressed? Most recently I have been impressed by Dr. Nader because he seems brilliant AND compassionate AND down to earth. He is leading a very human life with a wife and children and a medical practice. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits What is the gazing? I've been taught to give shaktipat by my tantra guru but it doesn't involve any gazing. Sometimes I wonder if these people had any authentic teacher or just some charlatan from India. There are probably more than a few Indians in the US who have learned tantra and some are astrologers and others are quiet maybe helping someone if they ask. And then there is the guy at the gas station who decided to call himself a Swami for some extra money. It's a good thing to spend a few months testing a teacher and boning up on the field through books such as Dr. Robert Svoboda's excellent trilogy (on what it is like to be a westerner learning from an authentic tantric). I would also be interested in what kind of things impress people? On 10/16/2012 10:55 AM, Share Long wrote: laughing because different strokes, etc. I rarely liked the gazing. OTOH, I wasn't comfortable attending and NOT participating in gazing. And they don't like people coming late to avoid the gazing... WDM gave me a steady spiritual family when I first left campus. I'll always be grateful for that. Even so, I was never looking for another theory of consciounsess, etc. so I didn't mind their lack of that. And I do think the whole mutuality angle is an important one that very few others discuss. Didn't go last night but am busting with curiosity about it (-: From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: And it cost $20 too. I see Bonder as a guy with a few ideas, which may or may not be helpful to some people. Waking Down is a small, niche path that is certainly not for everyone. I have heard him twice, and can't say I have been overwhelmingly impressed. I wasn't at all impressed the first time I went to see him and Linda at the FF library, about 10 years ago. But, on his next trip to FF, he was here with Pascal Salesses, a WD teacher who had just moved to FF, and I felt a connection with her. I'm grateful that Saniel started WD, but I've always connected better with some of the other teachers. And, I can't even begin to get through his books. For me, the WD experience had nothing to do with ideas; it was all about the gazing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
I really love what Alex says about WD gazing. AND for me it felt too top down when it was teachers and mentors being the gazers and everyone else being the gazees. It felt more right to me when everyone gazed with everyone else. Probably my authority issues involved. Lots of people liked the gazing a lot. I also know of shaktipat given by touch and have experienced it here in FF. Besides TM, long list and the word impressed is not at all the right word: I am forever grateful to the lineage of Kundalini Care in Knoxville, especially the 2 living exponents Shivarpita and Swamiji; I'm grateful to Ammachi and Mother Meera and Kurnamayi; I love Kwan Yin and Krishna Das' guru but have only seen pictures of them; I have huge respect for David Deida and John Douglas and John Newton and his teacher Howard Wills; I go deep with the writing of Adyashanti and Francis Lucille; and with the inquiry of Lester Levenson and Byron Katie; I love gazing with Braco and doing Spring Forest Qigong with Master Chunyi Lin. I've probably forgotten somebody (-: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits In my tradition shaktipat is given by touch. A lot of other traditions do it this way. Did you know that Maharishi also gave shaktipat when he first taught meditation? What non-TM people have you been impressed by? On 10/16/2012 02:06 PM, Share Long wrote: Silently making eye contact and I do remember the word shakitpat being used a few times. In the beginning only teachers and mentors gazed with others. Now everyone gazes with everyone. Since I didn't like it, I'm probably not the best to describe its benefits. How is shaktipat given in your tradition? guy at the gas station=Buddha At the Gas Pump? Impressed? Most recently I have been impressed by Dr. Nader because he seems brilliant AND compassionate AND down to earth. He is leading a very human life with a wife and children and a medical practice. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits What is the gazing? I've been taught to give shaktipat by my tantra guru but it doesn't involve any gazing. Sometimes I wonder if these people had any authentic teacher or just some charlatan from India. There are probably more than a few Indians in the US who have learned tantra and some are astrologers and others are quiet maybe helping someone if they ask. And then there is the guy at the gas station who decided to call himself a Swami for some extra money. It's a good thing to spend a few months testing a teacher and boning up on the field through books such as Dr. Robert Svoboda's excellent trilogy (on what it is like to be a westerner learning from an authentic tantric). I would also be interested in what kind of things impress people? On 10/16/2012 10:55 AM, Share Long wrote: laughing because different strokes, etc. I rarely liked the gazing. OTOH, I wasn't comfortable attending and NOT participating in gazing. And they don't like people coming late to avoid the gazing... WDM gave me a steady spiritual family when I first left campus. I'll always be grateful for that. Even so, I was never looking for another theory of consciounsess, etc. so I didn't mind their lack of that. And I do think the whole mutuality angle is an important one that very few others discuss. Didn't go last night but am busting with curiosity about it (-: From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: And it cost $20 too. I see Bonder as a guy with a few ideas, which may or may not be helpful to some people. Waking Down is a small, niche path that is certainly not for everyone. I have heard him twice, and can't say I have been overwhelmingly impressed. I wasn't at all impressed the first time I went to see him and Linda at the FF library, about 10 years ago. But, on his next trip to FF, he was here with Pascal Salesses, a WD teacher who had just moved to FF, and I felt a connection with her. I'm grateful that Saniel started WD, but I've always connected better with some of the other teachers. And, I can't even begin to get through his books. For me, the WD experience had nothing to do with ideas; it was all about the gazing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Yourself maybe? From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits I really love what Alex says about WD gazing. AND for me it felt too top down when it was teachers and mentors being the gazers and everyone else being the gazees. It felt more right to me when everyone gazed with everyone else. Probably my authority issues involved. Lots of people liked the gazing a lot. I also know of shaktipat given by touch and have experienced it here in FF. Besides TM, long list and the word impressed is not at all the right word: I am forever grateful to the lineage of Kundalini Care in Knoxville, especially the 2 living exponents Shivarpita and Swamiji; I'm grateful to Ammachi and Mother Meera and Kurnamayi; I love Kwan Yin and Krishna Das' guru but have only seen pictures of them; I have huge respect for David Deida and John Douglas and John Newton and his teacher Howard Wills; I go deep with the writing of Adyashanti and Francis Lucille; and with the inquiry of Lester Levenson and Byron Katie; I love gazing with Braco and doing Spring Forest Qigong with Master Chunyi Lin. I've probably forgotten somebody (-: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits In my tradition shaktipat is given by touch. A lot of other traditions do it this way. Did you know that Maharishi also gave shaktipat when he first taught meditation? What non-TM people have you been impressed by? On 10/16/2012 02:06 PM, Share Long wrote: Silently making eye contact and I do remember the word shakitpat being used a few times. In the beginning only teachers and mentors gazed with others. Now everyone gazes with everyone. Since I didn't like it, I'm probably not the best to describe its benefits. How is shaktipat given in your tradition? guy at the gas station=Buddha At the Gas Pump? Impressed? Most recently I have been impressed by Dr. Nader because he seems brilliant AND compassionate AND down to earth. He is leading a very human life with a wife and children and a medical practice. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits What is the gazing? I've been taught to give shaktipat by my tantra guru but it doesn't involve any gazing. Sometimes I wonder if these people had any authentic teacher or just some charlatan from India. There are probably more than a few Indians in the US who have learned tantra and some are astrologers and others are quiet maybe helping someone if they ask. And then there is the guy at the gas station who decided to call himself a Swami for some extra money. It's a good thing to spend a few months testing a teacher and boning up on the field through books such as Dr. Robert Svoboda's excellent trilogy (on what it is like to be a westerner learning from an authentic tantric). I would also be interested in what kind of things impress people? On 10/16/2012 10:55 AM, Share Long wrote: laughing because different strokes, etc. I rarely liked the gazing. OTOH, I wasn't comfortable attending and NOT participating in gazing. And they don't like people coming late to avoid the gazing... WDM gave me a steady spiritual family when I first left campus. I'll always be grateful for that. Even so, I was never looking for another theory of consciounsess, etc. so I didn't mind their lack of that. And I do think the whole mutuality angle is an important one that very few others discuss. Didn't go last night but am busting with curiosity about it (-: From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: And it cost $20 too. I see Bonder as a guy with a few ideas, which may or may not be helpful to some people. Waking Down is a small, niche path that is certainly not for everyone. I have heard him twice, and can't say I have been overwhelmingly impressed. I wasn't at all impressed the first time I went to see him and Linda at the FF library, about 10 years ago. But, on his next trip to FF, he was here with Pascal Salesses, a WD teacher who had just moved to FF, and I felt a connection with her. I'm grateful that Saniel started WD, but I've always connected better with some of the other teachers. And, I can't even begin to get through his
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits
Whoa! Thank you. That was definitely a mini mahavakhya (-: From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits Yourself maybe? From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits I really love what Alex says about WD gazing. AND for me it felt too top down when it was teachers and mentors being the gazers and everyone else being the gazees. It felt more right to me when everyone gazed with everyone else. Probably my authority issues involved. Lots of people liked the gazing a lot. I also know of shaktipat given by touch and have experienced it here in FF. Besides TM, long list and the word impressed is not at all the right word: I am forever grateful to the lineage of Kundalini Care in Knoxville, especially the 2 living exponents Shivarpita and Swamiji; I'm grateful to Ammachi and Mother Meera and Kurnamayi; I love Kwan Yin and Krishna Das' guru but have only seen pictures of them; I have huge respect for David Deida and John Douglas and John Newton and his teacher Howard Wills; I go deep with the writing of Adyashanti and Francis Lucille; and with the inquiry of Lester Levenson and Byron Katie; I love gazing with Braco and doing Spring Forest Qigong with Master Chunyi Lin. I've probably forgotten somebody (-: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits In my tradition shaktipat is given by touch. A lot of other traditions do it this way. Did you know that Maharishi also gave shaktipat when he first taught meditation? What non-TM people have you been impressed by? On 10/16/2012 02:06 PM, Share Long wrote: Silently making eye contact and I do remember the word shakitpat being used a few times. In the beginning only teachers and mentors gazed with others. Now everyone gazes with everyone. Since I didn't like it, I'm probably not the best to describe its benefits. How is shaktipat given in your tradition? guy at the gas station=Buddha At the Gas Pump? Impressed? Most recently I have been impressed by Dr. Nader because he seems brilliant AND compassionate AND down to earth. He is leading a very human life with a wife and children and a medical practice. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits What is the gazing? I've been taught to give shaktipat by my tantra guru but it doesn't involve any gazing. Sometimes I wonder if these people had any authentic teacher or just some charlatan from India. There are probably more than a few Indians in the US who have learned tantra and some are astrologers and others are quiet maybe helping someone if they ask. And then there is the guy at the gas station who decided to call himself a Swami for some extra money. It's a good thing to spend a few months testing a teacher and boning up on the field through books such as Dr. Robert Svoboda's excellent trilogy (on what it is like to be a westerner learning from an authentic tantric). I would also be interested in what kind of things impress people? On 10/16/2012 10:55 AM, Share Long wrote: laughing because different strokes, etc. I rarely liked the gazing. OTOH, I wasn't comfortable attending and NOT participating in gazing. And they don't like people coming late to avoid the gazing... WDM gave me a steady spiritual family when I first left campus. I'll always be grateful for that. Even so, I was never looking for another theory of consciounsess, etc. so I didn't mind their lack of that. And I do think the whole mutuality angle is an important one that very few others discuss. Didn't go last night but am busting with curiosity about it (-: From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:49 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Saniel Bonder in Fairfield visits --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: And it cost $20 too. I see Bonder as a guy with a few ideas, which may or may not be helpful to some people. Waking Down is a small, niche path that is certainly not for everyone. I have heard him twice, and can't say I have been overwhelmingly impressed. I wasn't at all impressed the first time I went to see him and Linda at the FF
