Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

reactions..
 $4 million for a lot?  How about 1 million to MSAE,  The University. The kids. 
 A paid professional faculty, boarding school. credentialed staff.  There is 
something cynical about this and duplicitous.  It’s his, he can do whatever he 
wants with his money, why should anyone care.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Maybe they are buying the parcel just to Florida-flip it for a tidy gross 
profit to then donate the proceeds to support the science-based spiritual good 
works of global peace creating by the TM movement. 
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Maybe people are jumping to conclusions. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We’ll know more about this shortly from the top down.  Maharaja will be in 
Fairfield speaking to the meditating community on Monday.  

 

So the lot evidently is about achieving proper vastu and no movement money was 
used.  That does not mean that some Movement community courtier might not have 
furnish some money being helpful buying a little access, influence or favor of 
the Maharaja.  We are not in Kansas?  Someone else who seems to know the Naders 
says that they do not have that kind of money, that they are being helped.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 I also posted a link to some wikilinks financial statements from 2004-05 but 
they haven't shown up yet. Here is more: 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

On 05/11/2016 03:57 PM, sri...@ymail.com wrote:


Doing a Yagya as a beef eater is like a fish using a hairdryer.


*@_@

*

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[srijau]

Doing a Yagya as a beef eater is like a fish using a hairdryer.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

You need not be present.  The one I signed up for was on a following day 
and they just perform the yagya with your name inserted among a list of 
others.


Let's remember that much of science is a belief system too. There's much 
we don't understand yet.  What makes yagyas work are probably based on a 
long lost science that someday may be rediscovered.


On 05/10/2016 07:38 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
I'm thinking of having a yagya done  for myself due to the transit of 
Rahu in Leo.  Do you have to be present at the temple?  Or can you 
stay at home at the time the yagya is being performed?


A few years ago I attended a yagya done for a  friend in a temple in 
Sunnyvale, CA.  It was an elaborate ritual which included offering 
seeds dipped in ghee onto the fire and dancing around the fire as the 
priest invoked the mantras.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

I had a yagya performed once for me. It was not a TM yagya but 
performed by the Hindu temple in Livermore in the SF Bay Area.  I 
happened to be there with a friend before Indian new year and they 
offered put visitors on the yagya list for the new year.  It only cost 
$55.  I wasn't expecting anything but was an effect for awhile.


On 05/09/2016 09:26 AM, feste37 wrote:

I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark 
that (and this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although 
the ones done for me were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me 
about Salyavin's tirades is his claim that the TMO actually does not 
even perform the yagyas people pay them to do. I have not heard this 
before and wonder how anyone would know that it is true. It is one 
thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite another to claim that 
they are never even performed.




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at 
their experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth 
about TM and the org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a 
nickel's worth of space between that expression and the Christian 
fundamentalists - same psychological mistake; transference. They 
cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn on those who are 
experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is with 
themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.


This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. 
But there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is 
empty complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody 
appreciates a bunch of blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, 
that they know the real truth about TM and the TMO and are here to 
enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :


Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they 
need to save someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant 
information to peruse ! with regard to the TM movement such that 
Salyavin feels the impassioned need to take on the role.


What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this 
attitude and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the 
fundamentalist) knows what's best for another, and therefore makes it 
a mission to convert "the other". And then, you must ask, where does 
it end.


The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :





---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :





---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote :





---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
,  
 wrote ! :


I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya 
donations are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their 
money on chanting or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible.



But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really 
start to believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. 
Obviously it's up to people to become scientifically aware and think 
their way out of the stupidity before it bankrupts them or they end 
up moving to a town where this sort of excuse for thinking is taken 
so much for granted that it becomes a given rather than the utterly 
astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it actually is.



Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

The first point as 1. in the text below as to Dr. Nader's initial reluctance to 
the job feels quite poignant and tells a narrative that seems is there in this.
 

 As a communal leader Dr. Nader has not had nearly the public experience
 and acquired the acumen for the job that the Drs. Morris and Hagelin and 
others have
 earned as lecturers, teachers and administrators of TM.
 

 It seems pretty clear Dr. Nader was brought out of the basement and
 put on stage center.
 

 What the text is not showing is an insight in to the working relationship
 which the three Drs. have with each other at the top as they
 have come in to the inheritance of the heritage of all that is TM.
 That part of relationship working out in by-law actually is
 really interesting to watch play out in process.
 

 None of the three can necessarily rule by decree, they have
 to bring the others along and these are substantial personages.
 Technically they are only trustees of a corporation. That was
 well set up by Maharishi well before Maharishi passed away.
 

 Each of the three bring things by talent and personality that the others need
 or they have to work around. That is the TMO now.
 
 The other night at the Dome meeting
 of Vedic City (..the Global Country people), the University, and the in-town 
meditator communities
 where Dr. Nader skype-ed in from somewhere
 was a good example of some of the dynamic
 with the three. There is a lot going on.
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Someone provided the text pasted further below on the side.
 
 It seems to have a fair capture of some current TM ethnography in it's 
narrative
 as to what we see and hear here in Fairfield, Iowa also.
 

 

 
 [ Paste of text..
 
  FW: "..I suggested to a friend who hears quite a bit of the thinking of 
higher-level TMO persons to read the discussion and tell me what she thought. 
She had some interesting perspectives on what she read here. 

 

 Here are a few points from a long dinner conversation earlier tonight, they 
are abbreviated – and so keep in mind they lack much of the nuance of what she 
said. Keeping that in mind, I found them quite interesting (i.e. some very 
different perspectives than would have occurred to me) and so I thought I would 
offer them as information here.
 

 1. Re: King Tony. The ‘ruling from silence’ spiel that was played around the 
time of MMY’s death was a way of dealing with a combination of factors: 1) Tony 
was not comfortable with public speaking of the kind expected of MMY’s 
appointed successor; 2) He went through a long period of being overwhelmed and 
was pressured to stay on. 

 

 2. TMO’s thinking is not as fixed regarding King Tony’s role as she picked up 
people on FFL-2 seem to think based on her reading on this topic in FFF-2. It’s 
constantly evolving. TMO higher-ups are sticking to what they consider to be 
MMY’s core principles, but how that plays out is certainly not fixed.
 

 3. Something she said that really struck me (but made sense when she said it). 
How King Tony is perceived by those who work for the TMO (the ‘beige suits and 
saris’ brigade as she called them) is NOT a concern or focus for TMO bigwigs.  
She brought this up because it seemed to be such a significant train of thought 
here on FFL-2.  Logic: By the time somebody becomes a ‘beige suit/sari person’ 
they have already accepted the whole TMO culture, and if they change their 
mind, they can leave – there will be others to take their place. 

 

 [Think of the millions who follow royalty, particularly in Britain – more 
below.]
 

 4. TMO believes it is only a matter of time before the world begins to take 
notice of the TMO as a major force in the world (as she and I remember MMY 
saying in the 70’s). The focus among TMO bigwigs is how King Tony is perceived 
by the public when this happens – and the preparation for this is ongoing in a 
very focused manner. 

 

 5. She’s aware of the Florida digs, expensive schools (she did not know about 
the flying lessons). Also indicated that the rumor is that he has similar digs 
in Paris, and there are plans for major (think Buckingham Palace luxury digs – 
but vastu) in every continent. She has no idea where the money comes from, but 
she assumes it is TMO money.  

 

 One point she made was about the vast divide between the Florida digs 
discussion she read here in FFL-2 and ‘TMO-think’: These ‘Florida digs’ are 
only a pittance – what is being attempted is the creation of the equivalent of 
a British royal family type setup (all the palaces, pageantry, jewels, private 
planes, embassies in every country in the world, etc.), but not just in one 
country – in every continent. Also, this is not King Tony only – it is intended 
as the beginning of dynasty that will last for thousands of years. The money 
spend on the Florida digs doesn’t even reach the level of peanuts. 

 

 6. The current plan that is playing out is portraying King Tony 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Right. The Religious TMers are hoping for a payoff after waiting endlessly, and 
the ant-TMers argue that no payoff is immanent. Doing this through Yahoo forums 
has nothing to do with presenting any version of truth. It is simply empty 
complaints from those who are angry at having not benefited from the TMO, as 
they feel they so richly deserved. No attempt at taking responsibility, or 
adhering to the rigors of science. They are clearly not living in the real 
world, just working hard at enabling their prejudices, and making no spiritual 
progress whatsoever.  

 Everyone makes their choices, and lives with the consequences. Though 
fundamentalists as those on both sides of this issue, also insist that theirs 
is the only right way, there is a middle way between the two of them, free of 
rancor or dogma, that provides all the knowledge and freedom anyone could ask 
for. 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 It seems a religious war between the two, that is not very spiritual.   

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 The Religious Cohort of Anti-TM, and the Religious TM'ers. 

 Evidently a community of what one may see as ‘religious’ that seems to remain 
inside of TM is quite small as so too is its opposition of anti-TM’ers outside 
in cohort are relatively small.  
 But both are quite active and sophisticated in doggedly using a machinery of 
PR media in vying with their counter across and over a middle ground, each side 
with a hoping to dispute and win ground of public opinion against the other 
extreme and maybe even plow the other under. 
 

 

 To countervail:  to exert force against an opposing and often bad or harmful 
force or influence
 

 valence,
 

 the amount of power of an atom which is determined by the number of electrons 
the atom will lose, gain, or share when it forms compounds
 
 
 Cohort,
 In statistics, a cohort is a group of subjects who have shared a particular 
event together during a particular time span.  Originally used to describe a 
military unit in ancient Rome. 
 

 To vail:  take off or lower (one's hat or crown) as a token of respect or 
submission. 
 
 Take off one's hat or otherwise show respect or submission to someone.
 

 Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own 
opinions and prejudices; especially :  one who regards or treats the members of 
a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We know one thing, they spend one helluva of a lot of time ranting and raving 
about it here and on the other site, pretty much all hours of the day.  That 
tells ya something!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Well, if we consider religion to be a pointer to 
something it no longer contains, then the answer is "yes". Just as those who go 
to church regularly because it strengthens their beliefs, so do these naysayers 
regularly repeat themselves, feeling "safer" inside the boundaries of their 
"important discoveries". Taking on something like the obvious corruption within 
the TMO by posturing on forums is another way of saying, "I don't have a life", 
writ large. So, depending on the degree of obsession, I would say that 
"Anti-TM" has become a de-facto religion for some.  

 I tend to be wary of those who are either always extolling spiritual and 
religious experience, or always knocking it. Both are somewhat unbalanced, as I 
am sure their daily lives indicate.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, 
 

 the interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort 
as what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious 
Cohort of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Ann,
 

 These planetary transits do have an effect on people here on earth either in 
their unknowing actions, such as the killings performed by ISIS members or 
taking an overdose of drugs like Prince, or the effects in their health 
ostensibly attributed to physical reasons only, without considering the 
planetary aspects and transits.
 

 IMO, this is the reason why Deepak Chopra recommended the use of the TM mantra 
to cure medical complaints by placing one's awareness on the health complaint 
while invoking the mantra during meditation.  This is a form of performing a 
direct personal yagya on the problem at hand.  For safe measure, it would be 
better to use the traditional yagya performed by the Hindu priest.
 

 Of course, each person can try the various alternatives, including the western 
allopathic medicine, when the time comes.  It's his or her personal choice.

 

 My point exactly.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I'm thinking of having a yagya done  for myself due to the transit of Rahu in 
Leo.  Do you have to be present at the temple?  Or can you stay at home at the 
time the yagya is being performed?
 

 A few years ago I attended a yagya done for a  friend in a temple in 
Sunnyvale, CA.  It was an elaborate ritual which included offering seeds dipped 
in ghee onto the fire and dancing around the fire as the priest invoked the 
mantras.

 

 Good for you. You show those naysayers. Pay your money, sit back and enjoy the 
ride. That's what I say. While some are watching the newest installment of some 
TV series and another is baking a batch of croissants and while still someone 
else is filling their test tubes and dabbing microscopic specimens on petri 
dishes you go right ahead and do your thing. Each to his own.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I had a yagya performed once for me.  It was not a TM yagya but performed by 
the Hindu temple in Livermore in the SF Bay Area.  I happened to be there with 
a friend before Indian new year and they offered put visitors on the yagya list 
for the new year.  It only cost $55.  I wasn't expecting anything but was an 
effect for awhile.
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? 
 

 Sorry, I wanted to get back to this but was busy for the last few days 
enjoying the Island I live on - walking suspension bridges, biking, eating 
delicious local food, celebrating my 28th wedding anniversary and generally 
falling in love with British Columbia all over again.  But I am back now.
 

 So, you ask me if your friends can decide. Sure they can, they did and they 
have and they will continue to do so. You decide to meditate twice a day. You 
decide to take a bike ride, eat a pastrami sandwich, watch the telly. Do you 
need someone to tell you not to? Do you want your friends to suggest the 
pastrami is bad for your heart or that the bike ride might result in your 
demise? You're a big boy, you have the right to decide these things for 
yourself just as they can decide if they want to lay out their money to have 
someone sing to the universe on their behalf. Who are you to decide what is 
best for them, what will make them happy? What does it really matter if it 
works or not? Seriously. You just seem to resent the fact that someone is 
making money off of your friends' choices to have a prayer sung for them. Is it 
really any different from paying for that prescription that may or may not cure 
your psoriasis? For some the pills might clear it up but for others it might do 
nothing. Does this mean the drug is useless, some sort of placebo? Not 
necessarily. You just have a hard on for the Movement and that is fine but my 
advice (which is the last thing you're asking for) is to realize no matter how 
much you rail against them and try and convince others they are throwing their 
money away your voice will be unheard and unheeded by those who believe/think 
differently.
 

 When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to believe what they tell 
you as I'm sure you're aware. 
 

 Sure, but I also know there is still a choice. It's not like any cult can 
actually lobotomize you. You are still a free agent. It just took me a while to 
recognize what was going on around Robin through months of looking and seeing 
and hearing what was happening during the end of things, when it all got 
crazier than ever. Then it took me rebelling, openly, at the group and getting 
kicked around again which opened my eyes wider and when that happened I went 
hell-bent to try and open everyone else's eyes including going to the local rag 
and exposing everything. None of them listened to me at the time but the 5 part 
newspaper series seriously disrupted the thing and they all scattered, some 
losing their jobs, Robin leaving town. So, in the end I created enough shit to 
break it up but it wasn't really me. It was many things coming together all at 
once. 
 

 Obviously it's up to people to become scientifically aware and think their way 
out of the stupidity before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town 
where this sort of excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it 
becomes a given rather than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific 
nonsense that it actually is.
 

 These people you know will not ever become "scientifically aware". They don't 
care about any science. They simply want a result from what it is they believe 
in.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 You don't know for a fact that our Raja friend is being financed by your 
friends' yagyas. That is pure conjecture. If I was a yagya enabler I would 
insist you provide me with concrete proof before I were to consider changing my 
mind. Jamesalan's dinner date didn't strike me as someone who was believable - 
her assertions were preposterous. I'm not that gullible to believe the Movement 
is going to make our dear Doctor as rich or as "royal" as King Charles. C'mon, 
you have to laugh. Talk about unscientific "evidence". 
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? 
 

 Absolutely, and I have. Many times. There are some very unsavory and 
unscrupulous horse trainers in this town and I do more than my part to make 
sure anyone who will listen, and many won't, know the deal.
 As much as I'd like to drive these asshats 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Ann,
 

 These planetary transits do have an effect on people here on earth either in 
their unknowing actions, such as the killings performed by ISIS members or 
taking an overdose of drugs like Prince, or the effects in their health 
ostensibly attributed to physical reasons only, without considering the 
planetary aspects and transits.
 

 IMO, this is the reason why Deepak Chopra recommended the use of the TM mantra 
to cure medical complaints by placing one's awareness on the health complaint 
while invoking the mantra during meditation.  This is a form of performing a 
direct personal yagya on the problem at hand.  For safe measure, it would be 
better to use the traditional yagya performed by the Hindu priest.
 

 Of course, each person can try the various alternatives, including the western 
allopathic medicine, when the time comes.  It's his or her personal choice.

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I'm thinking of having a yagya done  for myself due to the transit of Rahu in 
Leo.  Do you have to be present at the temple?  Or can you stay at home at the 
time the yagya is being performed?
 

 A few years ago I attended a yagya done for a  friend in a temple in 
Sunnyvale, CA.  It was an elaborate ritual which included offering seeds dipped 
in ghee onto the fire and dancing around the fire as the priest invoked the 
mantras.

 

 Good for you. You show those naysayers. Pay your money, sit back and enjoy the 
ride. That's what I say. While some are watching the newest installment of some 
TV series and another is baking a batch of croissants and while still someone 
else is filling their test tubes and dabbing microscopic specimens on petri 
dishes you go right ahead and do your thing. Each to his own.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I had a yagya performed once for me.  It was not a TM yagya but performed by 
the Hindu temple in Livermore in the SF Bay Area.  I happened to be there with 
a friend before Indian new year and they offered put visitors on the yagya list 
for the new year.  It only cost $55.  I wasn't expecting anything but was an 
effect for awhile.
 
 On 05/09/2016 09:26 AM, feste37 wrote:
 
   I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark that 
(and this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although the ones done 
for me were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me about Salyavin's 
tirades is his claim that the TMO actually does not even perform the yagyas 
people pay them to do. I have not heard this before and wonder how anyone would 
know that it is true. It is one thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite 
another to claim that they are never even performed. 

 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:olliesedwuz@... wrote :
 
 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote :
 
 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse ! 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 
 
 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 
 
 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote :
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I'm thinking of having a yagya done  for myself due to the transit of Rahu in 
Leo.  Do you have to be present at the temple?  Or can you stay at home at the 
time the yagya is being performed?
 

 A few years ago I attended a yagya done for a  friend in a temple in 
Sunnyvale, CA.  It was an elaborate ritual which included offering seeds dipped 
in ghee onto the fire and dancing around the fire as the priest invoked the 
mantras.

 

 Good for you. You show those naysayers. Pay your money, sit back and enjoy the 
ride. That's what I say. While some are watching the newest installment of some 
TV series and another is baking a batch of croissants and while still someone 
else is filling their test tubes and dabbing microscopic specimens on petri 
dishes you go right ahead and do your thing. Each to his own.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I had a yagya performed once for me.  It was not a TM yagya but performed by 
the Hindu temple in Livermore in the SF Bay Area.  I happened to be there with 
a friend before Indian new year and they offered put visitors on the yagya list 
for the new year.  It only cost $55.  I wasn't expecting anything but was an 
effect for awhile.
 
 On 05/09/2016 09:26 AM, feste37 wrote:
 
   I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark that 
(and this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although the ones done 
for me were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me about Salyavin's 
tirades is his claim that the TMO actually does not even perform the yagyas 
people pay them to do. I have not heard this before and wonder how anyone would 
know that it is true. It is one thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite 
another to claim that they are never even performed. 

 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:olliesedwuz@... wrote :
 
 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote :
 
 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse ! 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 
 
 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 
 
 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote :
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote ! :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 
 
 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 
 
 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I'm thinking of having a yagya done  for myself due to the transit of Rahu in 
Leo.  Do you have to be present at the temple?  Or can you stay at home at the 
time the yagya is being performed? 
 

 A few years ago I attended a yagya done for a  friend in a temple in 
Sunnyvale, CA.  It was an elaborate ritual which included offering seeds dipped 
in ghee onto the fire and dancing around the fire as the priest invoked the 
mantras.

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I had a yagya performed once for me.  It was not a TM yagya but performed by 
the Hindu temple in Livermore in the SF Bay Area.  I happened to be there with 
a friend before Indian new year and they offered put visitors on the yagya list 
for the new year.  It only cost $55.  I wasn't expecting anything but was an 
effect for awhile.
 
 On 05/09/2016 09:26 AM, feste37 wrote:
 
   I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark that 
(and this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although the ones done 
for me were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me about Salyavin's 
tirades is his claim that the TMO actually does not even perform the yagyas 
people pay them to do. I have not heard this before and wonder how anyone would 
know that it is true. It is one thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite 
another to claim that they are never even performed. 

 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:olliesedwuz@... wrote :
 
 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote :
 
 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse ! 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 
 
 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 
 
 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote :
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote ! :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 
 
 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 
 
 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 
 
 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers 
and all the while setting up a 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

It seems a religious war between the two, that is not very spiritual.   

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 The Religious Cohort of Anti-TM, and the Religious TM'ers. 

 Evidently a community of what one may see as ‘religious’ that seems to remain 
inside of TM is quite small as so too is its opposition of anti-TM’ers outside 
in cohort are relatively small.  
 But both are quite active and sophisticated in doggedly using a machinery of 
PR media in vying with their counter across and over a middle ground, each side 
with a hoping to dispute and win ground of public opinion against the other 
extreme and maybe even plow the other under. 
 

 

 To countervail:  to exert force against an opposing and often bad or harmful 
force or influence
 

 valence,
 

 the amount of power of an atom which is determined by the number of electrons 
the atom will lose, gain, or share when it forms compounds
 
 
 Cohort,
 In statistics, a cohort is a group of subjects who have shared a particular 
event together during a particular time span.  Originally used to describe a 
military unit in ancient Rome. 
 

 To vail:  take off or lower (one's hat or crown) as a token of respect or 
submission. 
 
 Take off one's hat or otherwise show respect or submission to someone.
 

 Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own 
opinions and prejudices; especially :  one who regards or treats the members of 
a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We know one thing, they spend one helluva of a lot of time ranting and raving 
about it here and on the other site, pretty much all hours of the day.  That 
tells ya something!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Well, if we consider religion to be a pointer to 
something it no longer contains, then the answer is "yes". Just as those who go 
to church regularly because it strengthens their beliefs, so do these naysayers 
regularly repeat themselves, feeling "safer" inside the boundaries of their 
"important discoveries". Taking on something like the obvious corruption within 
the TMO by posturing on forums is another way of saying, "I don't have a life", 
writ large. So, depending on the degree of obsession, I would say that 
"Anti-TM" has become a de-facto religion for some.  

 I tend to be wary of those who are either always extolling spiritual and 
religious experience, or always knocking it. Both are somewhat unbalanced, as I 
am sure their daily lives indicate.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, 
 

 the interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort 
as what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious 
Cohort of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 The Religious Cohort of Anti-TM, and the Religious TM'ers. 

 Evidently a community of what one may see as ‘religious’ that seems to remain 
inside of TM is quite small as so too is its opposition of anti-TM’ers outside 
in cohort are relatively small.  
 But both are quite active and sophisticated in doggedly using a machinery of 
PR media in vying with their counter across and over a middle ground, each side 
with a hoping to dispute and win ground of public opinion against the other 
extreme and maybe even plow the other under. 
 

 

 To countervail:  to exert force against an opposing and often bad or harmful 
force or influence
 

 valence,
 

 the amount of power of an atom which is determined by the number of electrons 
the atom will lose, gain, or share when it forms compounds
 
 
 Cohort,
 In statistics, a cohort is a group of subjects who have shared a particular 
event together during a particular time span.  Originally used to describe a 
military unit in ancient Rome. 
 

 To vail:  take off or lower (one's hat or crown) as a token of respect or 
submission. 
 
 Take off one's hat or otherwise show respect or submission to someone.
 

 Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own 
opinions and prejudices; especially :  one who regards or treats the members of 
a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We know one thing, they spend one helluva of a lot of time ranting and raving 
about it here and on the other site, pretty much all hours of the day.  That 
tells ya something!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Well, if we consider religion to be a pointer to 
something it no longer contains, then the answer is "yes". Just as those who go 
to church regularly because it strengthens their beliefs, so do these naysayers 
regularly repeat themselves, feeling "safer" inside the boundaries of their 
"important discoveries". Taking on something like the obvious corruption within 
the TMO by posturing on forums is another way of saying, "I don't have a life", 
writ large. So, depending on the degree of obsession, I would say that 
"Anti-TM" has become a de-facto religion for some.  

 I tend to be wary of those who are either always extolling spiritual and 
religious experience, or always knocking it. Both are somewhat unbalanced, as I 
am sure their daily lives indicate.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, 
 

 the interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort 
as what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious 
Cohort of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

"immortal cats" - good one - Yes, as human beings we always take things to 
extremes. 

 Googling, I found an interesting study done on the effect of yagyas on air 
pollution in India. There are detailed explanations of why the yagyas work, and 
quite a few measurements taken under what appear to be well controlled 
conditions. The science appears sound, and it is worth a read through:
 

 http://ijirse.in/docs/Apr14/IJIRSE140407.pdf 
http://ijirse.in/docs/Apr14/IJIRSE140407.pdf  
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Going back into this, your original assertions were that yagyas don't work and 
people should not spend their money on them, and possibly that the TMO takes 
the money without having yagyas performed.  

 Given that there is no meaningful data whatsoever to back up either of these 
statements, why should they be seen as scientific? 
 

 It's good to see people trying to get to grips with what's scientific and what 
isn't but I never made any claims that either statement was scientific. But we 
can make it so:  It's pretty obvious that yagyas don't work because we don't 
have world peace or a vastu village in the north of England (a lot of money was 
raised for yagyas for both). My friend with the migraines still has them 
despite spending $25,000 on these prayers. These are a few examples and you 
might say we can't draw big conclusions from small samples but if they did work 
we would have world peace, a lot of people I know would still be alive, have 
better jobs, immortal cats, etc etc.
 

 So much for taking them at face value, now let's get scientific about how they 
are claimed to work. The theory is that a group of people chanting the names of 
Hindu gods and your jyotish chart, and a simple request for said gods to grant 
you great boons, somehow radiates through a mysterious field of consciousness 
and either enhances your life in the hoped for way or cancels out negative 
influences from things you have done in the past. This puts it into the realm 
of physics, as John Hagelin is always pleased to explain, the thing about 
physics is that it works on high probabilities, if I have an electron say, and 
send it in one direction it will behave in a highly predictable way. Same with 
all other known forces and laws (otherwise they wouldn't be laws). 
 

 Yagyas seem to break this mould of physical predictability. Perhaps because 
jyotish has no evidence backing it up, and the Hindu gods aren't really aspects 
of quantum functioning and this "unified field of consciousness" doesn't exist 
either. As far as current knowledge of physics goes, the whole shebang seems to 
draw a complete blank. Not only does it fail it's own predicted tests but it 
contradicts everything else we know. If it was a failsafe process and always 
worked (rather than, apparently, never) then we'd have to rewrite physics to 
incorporate it. But as it is I don't think Einstein and Dirac have much to 
worry about.
 

 But here's the really interesting thing, you are so convinced that it's a real 
phenomenon that you perhaps think that it's up to me to prove that it doesn't 
work, but really I'm on the side of convincing explanations of the physical 
world and that doesn't include the power of prayer. So it becomes up to you to 
provide evidence that said powers do work. Extraordinary claims require 
extraordinary evidence. Currently I see no evidence that yagya work. QED.
 

 It is awfully hard to discuss statements with no basis to them. You may have 
some anecdotal evidence, but that hardly meets a scientific threshold. 
 

 Thank you. This is exactly what I would ask you to provide. Let's see some 
actual evidence instead of anecdotal evidence.
 

 The status quo within the TMO is that yagyas are performed for money. Setting 
yourself against that is a tall order, and to do so definitively requires more 
than simple assertions. The TMO is far from perfect and I haven't seen any 
arguments to the contrary here on FFL. That is a good baseline. 
 

 You now seem confused I have never set myself against the idea that yagya are 
performed for money. And why do you use the term "baseline"? It's rather out of 
context here. A baseline for yagya would be the expected  result of random 
human interaction. Proof that yagya work would be a significant change in those 
interactions, we'd notice sudden changes, things like world peace (we've been 
paying for yagyas for that for decades now) or sick people getting better 
(remember the claim of the very expensive health yagya is that they improve 
your health). Basically, if we had a way of influencing run-of-the-mill events 
we'd notioce it every time we did a yagya.
 

 But challenging the validity of individual programs takes more than strong 
statements that they don't work. Those that do so repeatedly begin to sound an 
awful lot like fundamentalists of any stripe, and 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Going back into this, your original assertions were that yagyas don't work and 
people should not spend their money on them, and possibly that the TMO takes 
the money without having yagyas performed.  

 Given that there is no meaningful data whatsoever to back up either of these 
statements, why should they be seen as scientific? 
 

 It's good to see people trying to get to grips with what's scientific and what 
isn't but I never made any claims that either statement was scientific. But we 
can make it so:  It's pretty obvious that yagyas don't work because we don't 
have world peace or a vastu village in the north of England (a lot of money was 
raised for yagyas for both). My friend with the migraines still has them 
despite spending $25,000 on these prayers. These are a few examples and you 
might say we can't draw big conclusions from small samples but if they did work 
we would have world peace, a lot of people I know would still be alive, have 
better jobs, immortal cats, etc etc.
 

 So much for taking them at face value, now let's get scientific about how they 
are claimed to work. The theory is that a group of people chanting the names of 
Hindu gods and your jyotish chart, and a simple request for said gods to grant 
you great boons, somehow radiates through a mysterious field of consciousness 
and either enhances your life in the hoped for way or cancels out negative 
influences from things you have done in the past. This puts it into the realm 
of physics, as John Hagelin is always pleased to explain, the thing about 
physics is that it works on high probabilities, if I have an electron say, and 
send it in one direction it will behave in a highly predictable way. Same with 
all other known forces and laws (otherwise they wouldn't be laws). 
 

 Yagyas seem to break this mould of physical predictability. Perhaps because 
jyotish has no evidence backing it up, and the Hindu gods aren't really aspects 
of quantum functioning and this "unified field of consciousness" doesn't exist 
either. As far as current knowledge of physics goes, the whole shebang seems to 
draw a complete blank. Not only does it fail it's own predicted tests but it 
contradicts everything else we know. If it was a failsafe process and always 
worked (rather than, apparently, never) then we'd have to rewrite physics to 
incorporate it. But as it is I don't think Einstein and Dirac have much to 
worry about.
 

 But here's the really interesting thing, you are so convinced that it's a real 
phenomenon that you perhaps think that it's up to me to prove that it doesn't 
work, but really I'm on the side of convincing explanations of the physical 
world and that doesn't include the power of prayer. So it becomes up to you to 
provide evidence that said powers do work. Extraordinary claims require 
extraordinary evidence. Currently I see no evidence that yagya work. QED.
 

 It is awfully hard to discuss statements with no basis to them. You may have 
some anecdotal evidence, but that hardly meets a scientific threshold. 
 

 Thank you. This is exactly what I would ask you to provide. Let's see some 
actual evidence instead of anecdotal evidence.
 

 The status quo within the TMO is that yagyas are performed for money. Setting 
yourself against that is a tall order, and to do so definitively requires more 
than simple assertions. The TMO is far from perfect and I haven't seen any 
arguments to the contrary here on FFL. That is a good baseline. 
 

 You now seem confused I have never set myself against the idea that yagya are 
performed for money. And why do you use the term "baseline"? It's rather out of 
context here. A baseline for yagya would be the expected  result of random 
human interaction. Proof that yagya work would be a significant change in those 
interactions, we'd notice sudden changes, things like world peace (we've been 
paying for yagyas for that for decades now) or sick people getting better 
(remember the claim of the very expensive health yagya is that they improve 
your health). Basically, if we had a way of influencing run-of-the-mill events 
we'd notioce it every time we did a yagya.
 

 But challenging the validity of individual programs takes more than strong 
statements that they don't work. Those that do so repeatedly begin to sound an 
awful lot like fundamentalists of any stripe, and I ask myself, why? Why are 
these baseless statements made again and again? 
 

 Simply because nobody has tried to prove the claims that are made and that 
people spend a lot of money on. And this is odd because the TMO claims to be a 
scientific organisation! You'd think they'd want hard evidence as so much 
depends on people keeping up the donations.
 

 There is much to be said for advancing ideas through discourse, but there must 
be something there. Fundamentalism doesn't fit that definition. The anti-TM 
crowd is all about fundamentalism, a bunch 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Going back into this, your original assertions were that yagyas don't work and 
people should not spend their money on them, and possibly that the TMO takes 
the money without having yagyas performed.  

 Given that there is no meaningful data whatsoever to back up either of these 
statements, why should they be seen as scientific? It is awfully hard to 
discuss statements with no basis to them. You may have some anecdotal evidence, 
but that hardly meets a scientific threshold. 
 

 The status quo within the TMO is that yagyas are performed for money. Setting 
yourself against that is a tall order, and to do so definitively requires more 
than simple assertions. The TMO is far from perfect and I haven't seen any 
arguments to the contrary here on FFL. That is a good baseline. 
 

 But challenging the validity of individual programs takes more than strong 
statements that they don't work. Those that do so repeatedly begin to sound an 
awful lot like fundamentalists of any stripe, and I ask myself, why? Why are 
these baseless statements made again and again? 
 

 There is much to be said for advancing ideas through discourse, but there must 
be something there. Fundamentalism doesn't fit that definition. The anti-TM 
crowd is all about fundamentalism, a bunch of know-it-alls, far more similar to 
their counterparts in the TMO than they would ever like to think.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Well, if we consider religion to be a pointer to 
something it no longer contains, 
 

 Isn't that a bit self-confirming? Who - apart from you - ever used that as a 
description of religion?
 

 then the answer is "yes". Just as those who go to church regularly because it 
strengthens their beliefs, so do these naysayers regularly repeat themselves, 
feeling "safer" inside the boundaries of their "important discoveries". Taking 
on something like the obvious corruption within the TMO by posturing on forums 
is another way of saying, "I don't have a life", writ large. So, depending on 
the degree of obsession, I would say that "Anti-TM" has become a de-facto 
religion for some. 
 

 If I was interested in being "safe" I wouldn't come here and raise the issues 
would I? I'm actually interested in debate and trying to work out how things 
work (or not) and why people continue to believe them when it's obvious they 
don't.
 

 Your "shoot the messenger" posts are an interesting example of defensive 
tactics, You disagree with me so obviously you don't have a life. Step outside 
yourself and see how reasonable a statement that is.
 

 I tend to be wary of those who are either always extolling spiritual and 
religious experience, or always knocking it. Both are somewhat unbalanced, as I 
am sure their daily lives indicate.
 

 Why are you sure? I think you're projecting how you'd like people to be but 
you seem rather religious to me btu I know I'll hear that old lecture about how 
TM is superior, I was never convinced but give it a go and I'll try a counter 
argument.
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, the 
interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort as 
what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious Cohort 
of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Well, if we consider religion to be a pointer to 
something it no longer contains, 
 

 Isn't that a bit self-confirming? Who - apart from you - ever used that as a 
description of religion?
 

 then the answer is "yes". Just as those who go to church regularly because it 
strengthens their beliefs, so do these naysayers regularly repeat themselves, 
feeling "safer" inside the boundaries of their "important discoveries". Taking 
on something like the obvious corruption within the TMO by posturing on forums 
is another way of saying, "I don't have a life", writ large. So, depending on 
the degree of obsession, I would say that "Anti-TM" has become a de-facto 
religion for some. 
 

 If I was interested in being "safe" I wouldn't come here and raise the issues 
would I? I'm actually interested in debate and trying to work out how things 
work (or not) and why people continue to believe them when it's obvious they 
don't.
 

 Your "shoot the messenger" posts are an interesting example of defensive 
tactics, You disagree with me so obviously you don't have a life. Step outside 
yourself and see how reasonable a statement that is.
 

 I tend to be wary of those who are either always extolling spiritual and 
religious experience, or always knocking it. Both are somewhat unbalanced, as I 
am sure their daily lives indicate.
 

 Why are you sure? I think you're projecting how you'd like people to be but 
you seem rather religious to me btu I know I'll hear that old lecture about how 
TM is superior, I was never convinced but give it a go and I'll try a counter 
argument.
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, the 
interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort as 
what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious Cohort 
of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 No reason yagyas shouldn't work. After all, yagyas have been working for 
several thousand years, so there is no reason they should suddenly stop 
working, just because we have several hundred years of Newtonian science under 
our belt. 
 

 I have no doubt that yagya's work as well now as they did thousands of years 
ago.
 

 Apples and oranges. 
 

 ?
 

 Pretty obvious that Salyavin considers himself "a scientist", like many of the 
other anti-TMers. But scientists gain success by understanding how the world 
works, not by closing themselves off to phenomena they don't understand. 
 

 Actually what happens is we look at the phenomena we don't understand to see 
if it is actually something rather than nothing. If I had "closed myself off" 
to anything I wouldn't have learned TM, read the books, went to the lectures, 
spent years on courses and gained a good working knowledge of the principles 
involved in Marshy's vedic "science".
 

 I never met a scientist who wasn't curious but ideas can be put into 
categories, those that seem to accurately reflect the way the world works, and 
those that don't. Science works by finding the tricky question to ask to see 
into which of those categories to put things. If you say that prayers to Hindu 
gods will create world peace and then you go ahead and it doesn't happen you've 
learned something about the power of prayer. That's an easy one to do though, 
no need of special measuring equipment.
 

 The anti-TMers act more like a lost and superstitious jungle tribe than a 
group trying to make sense of anything, and I will leave it at that.
 

 Good for you.
 

 As I said I'm not an anti-TMer, as I enjoy it. What I don't enjoy is the 
dubious supporting philosophy, it could be seen as a bit of harmless fun but 
every expensive add-on is based on you first accepting the principle that 
consciousness is some sort of unified field. This is where I say that you have 
to come up with some evidence and that can simply be a way that it might 
physically work without overthrowing everything else we know - this wouldn't be 
a bad thing as the first principle of science is that it must keep moving 
forward, as soon as you think you know the truth it stops, but extraordinary 
claims require extraordinary evidence and I haven't seen any evidence at all.
 

 This is the main difference between science and religion, science doesn't move 
on unless it thinks it's got a handle on what's happening whereas religions 
assume they already know and that any contrarians that come along must be a 
lost and superstitious tribe.
 

 This is all funny when you consider the emphasis that the TMO puts on science, 
yet they are strangely reluctant to use the power of scientific method to 
support what they sell. Apart from TM of course which has a lot of interesting 
thing about it that withstand study. I know people who would disagree with that 
as they really do think it doesn't work. Best we can say is that the results 
can be a mixed bag it seems.
 

 
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark that (and 
this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although the ones done for me 
were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me about Salyavin's tirades is 
his claim that the TMO actually does not even perform the yagyas people pay 
them to do. I have not heard this before and wonder how anyone would know that 
it is true. It is one thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite another to 
claim that they are never even performed. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

We know one thing, they spend one helluva of a lot of time ranting and raving 
about it here and on the other site, pretty much all hours of the day.  That 
tells ya something!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Well, if we consider religion to be a pointer to 
something it no longer contains, then the answer is "yes". Just as those who go 
to church regularly because it strengthens their beliefs, so do these naysayers 
regularly repeat themselves, feeling "safer" inside the boundaries of their 
"important discoveries". Taking on something like the obvious corruption within 
the TMO by posturing on forums is another way of saying, "I don't have a life", 
writ large. So, depending on the degree of obsession, I would say that 
"Anti-TM" has become a de-facto religion for some.  

 I tend to be wary of those who are either always extolling spiritual and 
religious experience, or always knocking it. Both are somewhat unbalanced, as I 
am sure their daily lives indicate.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, the 
interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort as 
what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious Cohort 
of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Is Anti-TM a New Religion? Well, if we consider religion to be a pointer to 
something it no longer contains, then the answer is "yes". Just as those who go 
to church regularly because it strengthens their beliefs, so do these naysayers 
regularly repeat themselves, feeling "safer" inside the boundaries of their 
"important discoveries". Taking on something like the obvious corruption within 
the TMO by posturing on forums is another way of saying, "I don't have a life", 
writ large. So, depending on the degree of obsession, I would say that 
"Anti-TM" has become a de-facto religion for some.  

 I tend to be wary of those who are either always extolling spiritual and 
religious experience, or always knocking it. Both are somewhat unbalanced, as I 
am sure their daily lives indicate.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, the 
interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort as 
what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious Cohort 
of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

No reason yagyas shouldn't work. After all, yagyas have been working for 
several thousand years, so there is no reason they should suddenly stop 
working, just because we have several hundred years of Newtonian science under 
our belt. Apples and oranges. Pretty obvious that Salyavin considers himself "a 
scientist", like many of the other anti-TMers. But scientists gain success by 
understanding how the world works, not by closing themselves off to phenomena 
they don't understand. The anti-TMers act more like a lost and superstitious 
jungle tribe than a group trying to make sense of anything, and I will leave it 
at that. 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark that (and 
this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although the ones done for me 
were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me about Salyavin's tirades is 
his claim that the TMO actually does not even perform the yagyas people pay 
them to do. I have not heard this before and wonder how anyone would know that 
it is true. It is one thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite another to 
claim that they are never even performed. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers 
and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific justification in the shape of 
Marshy's crap lectures about the unified field and continuing with John 
Hagelin's equally crap videos about string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to 
mis-sell something. The funny thing is they claim to be interested in science 
and yet they never put any of the more dubious products on the TM price list 
under any sort of serious scrutiny.
 

 Now, this discussion about Nader and how he could possibly have so much money 
(how much does he have? ) seems like many are jumping to conclusions about his 
guilt with regard to the 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

[Update: Maharaja won't be able to be here in person.]
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We’ll know more about this shortly from the top down.  Maharaja will be in 
Fairfield speaking to the meditating community on Monday.  

 

So the lot evidently is about achieving proper vastu and no movement money was 
used.  That does not mean that some Movement community courtier might not have 
furnish some money being helpful buying a little access, influence or favor of 
the Maharaja.  We are not in Kansas?  Someone else who seems to know the Naders 
says that they do not have that kind of money, that they are being helped.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 I also posted a link to some wikilinks financial statements from 2004-05 but 
they haven't shown up yet. Here is more: 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I do not have any problem with your content here. It is interesting and I 
appreciate it though to assert this is not also about something religious 
between some cohort of anti-TMO’ers and some TB’er pro-TMO’ers I feel would 
miss an aspect of what is going on underneath the wrangling on both sides. I 
find Ollie raised a valid and substantial point further below here about this.
 

  The Religious Cohort of Anti-TM,, 
 

 
 Theirs is not about religion? The anti-TM'ers?  Not?  That is what the TM’ers 
thought too when they were dragged in to Federal Court by ultra religious 
fanaticism on the other side tracking it down.  TM responding..“We’re not a 
religion.” and SCI was found in criteria studied to be a (non-theistic) 
religion.  Some small cohort of anti-TM’ers out on the internet seems about as 
religious by criteria in their pursuit of denial of TMO meditationism.   Or as 
7Ray says further below, how they ‘each became  tyrants’. 
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 

 So you'd rather make up neat ways to not answer the points I raise? Anyone 
would think I didn't always give examples and explanations!
 

 You can read it all again to check if you like...
 

 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers. 
 

 This is not a "religion" for me, whatever that might mean. I was responding to 
a post by the former owner of this site, which is kind of how discussion forums 
work doncha know. I'm trying explain to you that I think they lost their way a 
while ago, they have resorted to deception to raise funds and still do, even if 
the yagya fund is a case of folie a deux rather than a deliberate scam like 
"vedaland" they still haven't made any attempt to test it - or many other 
"products" - and all the while claiming to be a scientifically active 
university! 
 

 Surely you're interested in ultimate reality rather than just taking the gurus 
word for it? I think you're slipping into accusing me of what you fear in 
yourself. Namely that what you think is some sort of scientifically validated 
reality is in fact a load of Hindoo hocus-pocus. It's much easier to pigeon 
hole me as an enraged fanatic if there are things you don't want to talk about. 
 

 I always ask for evidence as I believe the only way we can find out whether 
our cherished beliefs are real or not is by setting up tests for them, that's 
the difference between science and religion. I think there is too much money 
involved in yagyas etc to risk losing and so many religious people who are 
still devoted to the teaching to risk alienating them and besides, it's a cosy 
little daydream so why spoil it? Because if it's wrong and costing people money 
it should go, surely you agree with that?
 

 Anyway, I'm not an "anti-TMer" I meditate twice a day still. I have explained 
why I don't trust the TMO about money, including examples and about the yagya 
con involving obvious scientific misrepresentation at the very least. Remember 
what it says on the FFL homepage: "A healthy mind challenges its own 
assumptions"

 

 Trust me, you need criticism round here, otherwise you'll all just disappear 
down the rabbit hole
 

 

  Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated 
within the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, 
the interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort 
as what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious 
Cohort of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

I had a yagya performed once for me. It was not a TM yagya but performed 
by the Hindu temple in Livermore in the SF Bay Area.  I happened to be 
there with a friend before Indian new year and they offered put visitors 
on the yagya list for the new year.  It only cost $55.  I wasn't 
expecting anything but was an effect for awhile.


On 05/09/2016 09:26 AM, feste37 wrote:


I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark 
that (and this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although 
the ones done for me were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me 
about Salyavin's tirades is his claim that the TMO actually does not 
even perform the yagyas people pay them to do. I have not heard this 
before and wonder how anyone would know that it is true. It is one 
thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite another to claim that 
they are never even performed.




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at 
their experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth 
about TM and the org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a 
nickel's worth of space between that expression and the Christian 
fundamentalists - same psychological mistake; transference. They 
cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn on those who are 
experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is with 
themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.


This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. 
But there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is 
empty complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody 
appreciates a bunch of blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, 
that they know the real truth about TM and the TMO and are here to 
enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need 
to save someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant 
information to peruse ! with regard to the TM movement such that 
Salyavin feels the impassioned need to take on the role.


What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this 
attitude and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the 
fundamentalist) knows what's best for another, and therefore makes it 
a mission to convert "the other". And then, you must ask, where does 
it end.


The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote ! :

I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya 
donations are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their 
money on chanting or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible.



But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really 
start to believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. 
Obviously it's up to people to become scientifically aware and think 
their way out of the stupidity before it bankrupts them or they end up 
moving to a town where this sort of excuse for thinking is taken so 
much for granted that it becomes a given rather than the utterly 
astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it actually is.



Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this 
case real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some 
sort of peace creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them 
to darw it to their attention or we aren't very good friends.



If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan 
wouldn't you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions 
from selling prayers and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific 
justification in the shape of Marshy's crap lectures about the unified 
field and continuing with John Hagelin's equally crap videos about 
string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to mis-sell something. The 
funny thing is they claim to be interested in science and yet they 
never put any of the more dubious products on the TM price list under 
any sort of serious scrutiny.



Now, this discussion about Nader and how he could possibly have so 
much money (how much does he have? ! ) seems like many are jumping to 
conclusions about his guilt with regard to the Movement handing over 
millions of dollars to him for some reason. Why would they do this? Is 
he worth that much to them? I don't know Nader from a hole in the 
ground other than, I believe, he possesses a gold outfit complete with 
crown in his closet. I suggest people get some hard facts before 
proclaiming his guilt from the rooftops. BTW, 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I've got the links working now, I think.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 

 (snip)
 

 I always ask for evidence as I believe the only way we can find out whether 
our cherished beliefs are real or not is by setting up tests for them, that's 
the difference between science and religion.
 

 So did you ask JamesAlan for evidence of what he claims his friend told him 
during their dinner conversation?
 

 

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9948 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9948

 

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9970 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9970
 

 

 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark that (and 
this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although the ones done for me 
were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me about Salyavin's tirades is 
his claim that the TMO actually does not even perform the yagyas people pay 
them to do. I have not heard this before and wonder how anyone would know that 
it is true. It is one thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite another to 
claim that they are never even performed. 
 

 There's a lot of ways of answering this. Perhaps the reason yours work is 
because they weren't done by the TMO, somebody actually did them 
 

 But that's a joke of course. I'm sure that a lot people think someone saying a 
prayer for them actually affects things but I don't believe it. Your experience 
could be the one double-six among the many thousands that didn't do anything 
because something happening because someone prays for you is a coincidence and 
bound to happen sooner or later, nothing else.
 

 My experience is that an awful lot of people spend an awful lot of money on 
something they don't even witness. Birthdays, looking for a new job, dying 
cats, dying friends, building a new house, the list is probably endless. But 
I've never seen a remotely convincing effect, the people of Skelmersdale spent 
many many thousands on yagya's to help them find land for a new vastu site but 
didn't get one they liked. Why didn't the laws of nature support them? Isolated 
example? Hardly! I could go on. And on. And on. And on. Basically they are crap 
because they don't work, and the theory behind the idea doesn't even hold 
water. 
 

 I was told that my jyotish chart revealed I had some bad karma returning and 
needed yagya's to prevent it's arrival. Obviously I declined and settled back 
to see what the bad karma might be, but whadya know? You guessed it, nothing 
happened. What I did there was science. Science is how we learn not to kid 
ourselves.
 

 But they are such a major part of living the vedic life that people hand over 
the cash at the drop of a hat. Sick friend? Yagya. Still sick? Yagya. Dead 
friend? Yagya to help him in his next life. I'd be fascinated to know just how 
much this rakes in for the TMO and all on a glaring lack of evidence. I don't 
care if people believe it, I jsut want to know why they are so expensive?
 

 And look at how they are sold in the TMO? Some newbie asked the teacher at the 
local centre what they were and he described them as a "sophisticated vedic 
recipe to influence future events from the highest level of nature's 
functioning" Sounds pretty good yes? What they do is sit around a model of 
vishnu's cock and flick ghee at it while asking the gods to intervene on your 
behalf. That's it. Really.
 

 And I'd like to know where the few hundred pundits in India find the time to 
do them all? Either they don't take very long or they do them en masse. But I'm 
not accusing them of not doing them, I'm just curious as to how they find the 
time.
 

 I know someone who had five health yagyas for migraine, I asked why they 
needed five if they are so good? All they said was "It probably works on a 
level I'm not aware of". Brilliant bit of brainwashing by the Reesh, sell 
something that doesn't work and tell them it does work! That was $25,000 for 
someone, for nothing. And nobody apart from me ever questions it. Go figure
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 

 (snip)
 

 I always ask for evidence as I believe the only way we can find out whether 
our cherished beliefs are real or not is by setting up tests for them, that's 
the difference between science and religion.
 

 So did you ask JamesAlan for evidence of what he claims his friend told him 
during their dinner conversation?
 

 

 

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9948
 

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9970
 

 

 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 

 So you'd rather make up neat ways to not answer the points I raise? Anyone 
would think I didn't always give examples and explanations!
 

 You can read it all again to check if you like...
 

 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers. 
 

 This is not a "religion" for me, whatever that might mean. I was responding to 
a post by the former owner of this site, which is kind of how discussion forums 
work doncha know. I'm trying explain to you that I think they lost their way a 
while ago, they have resorted to deception to raise funds and still do, even if 
the yagya fund is a case of folie a deux rather than a deliberate scam like 
"vedaland" they still haven't made any attempt to test it - or many other 
"products" - and all the while claiming to be a scientifically active 
university! 
 

 Surely you're interested in ultimate reality rather than just taking the gurus 
word for it? I think you're slipping into accusing me of what you fear in 
yourself. Namely that what you think is some sort of scientifically validated 
reality is in fact a load of Hindoo hocus-pocus. It's much easier to pigeon 
hole me as an enraged fanatic if there are things you don't want to talk about. 
 

 I always ask for evidence as I believe the only way we can find out whether 
our cherished beliefs are real or not is by setting up tests for them, that's 
the difference between science and religion. I think there is too much money 
involved in yagyas etc to risk losing and so many religious people who are 
still devoted to the teaching to risk alienating them and besides, it's a cosy 
little daydream so why spoil it? Because if it's wrong and costing people money 
it should go, surely you agree with that?
 

 Anyway, I'm not an "anti-TMer" I meditate twice a day still. I have explained 
why I don't trust the TMO about money, including examples and about the yagya 
con involving obvious scientific misrepresentation at the very least. Remember 
what it says on the FFL homepage: "A healthy mind challenges its own 
assumptions"

 

 Trust me, you need criticism round here, otherwise you'll all just disappear 
down the rabbit hole
 

 

  Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated 
within the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, 
the interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort 
as what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious 
Cohort of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[feste37]

I am probably one of the few people here who would venture to remark that (and 
this is based on my own experience), yagyas work, although the ones done for me 
were not done through the TMO. What intrigues me about Salyavin's tirades is 
his claim that the TMO actually does not even perform the yagyas people pay 
them to do. I have not heard this before and wonder how anyone would know that 
it is true. It is one thing to say the yagyas do not work, but quite another to 
claim that they are never even performed. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers 
and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific justification in the shape of 
Marshy's crap lectures about the unified field and continuing with John 
Hagelin's equally crap videos about string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to 
mis-sell something. The funny thing is they claim to be interested in science 
and yet they never put any of the more dubious products on the TM price list 
under any sort of serious scrutiny.
 

 Now, this discussion about Nader and how he could possibly have so much money 
(how much does he have? ) seems like many are jumping to conclusions about his 
guilt with regard to the Movement handing over millions of dollars to him for 
some reason. Why would they do this? Is he worth that much to them? I don't 
know Nader from a hole in the ground other than, I believe, he possesses a gold 
outfit complete with crown in his closet. I suggest people get some hard facts 
before proclaiming his guilt from the rooftops. BTW, where did you get your 
information? Judy seems to think that is important and you didn't answer that 
question in your response here.
 

 Judy has consistently demonstrated that she is an idiot to the extent that I 
never read her posts. She knows as well as I do where all this information 
about King Tony comes from. Is there another explanation for the wealth of 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, the 
interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort as 
what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious Cohort 
of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 Oh geez, how to get the anti TM'ers having a hissy fit - tell them they are 
preaching a sort of religion. The thing is, everyone has their own opinion 
about a thing but to continually harp away on this and that, things we have all 
heard a thousand times from them (and which many I agree with) is brutally 
repetitive, unimaginative and just plain boring. I get the message, "You think 
MMY is a putz and those who believe in, work for or give money to are also 
putzes." Got it. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers 
and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific justification in the shape of 
Marshy's crap lectures about the unified field and continuing with John 
Hagelin's equally crap videos about string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to 
mis-sell something. The funny thing is they claim to be interested in 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

  Is Anti-TM a New Religion?  
 Ollie, Interesting observation you are making here about the Anti-TM’ers.  
Salyavin’s consistent content as criticism here is honed and well stated within 
the Yahoo-groups guidelines except for the default to the ad hominem, the 
interesting thing in general is how the anti-TM’ers have come in to cohort as 
what seems like the a non-theistic religion of anti-TM,  The Religious Cohort 
of Anti-TM,, 
 

 Federal Court opinion on what makes a religion.. 
 

 ..“Indica” of religion: 'Ultimate ideas', 'Comprehensive', 'Structure'.
 

 
 [Federal Court opinion: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/419588
 


 

 Re: Is TM a New Religion? The Federal District Court
 

 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/426884
  

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers 
and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific justification in the shape of 
Marshy's crap lectures about the unified field and continuing with John 
Hagelin's equally crap videos about string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to 
mis-sell something. The funny thing is they claim to be interested in science 
and yet they never put any of the more dubious products on the TM price list 
under any sort of serious scrutiny.
 

 Now, this discussion about Nader and how he could possibly have so much money 
(how much does he have? ) seems like many are jumping to conclusions about his 
guilt with regard to the Movement handing over millions of dollars to him for 
some reason. Why would they do this? Is he worth that much to them? I don't 
know Nader from a hole in the ground other than, I believe, he possesses a gold 
outfit complete with 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

yeah, very strange. These people have become bitterly disappointed at their 
experiences regarding TM, and so, "attempt to spread the truth about TM and the 
org behind it" and "save" others. There is not a nickel's worth of space 
between that expression and the Christian fundamentalists - same psychological 
mistake; transference. They cannot accept that they didn't get it, and so turn 
on those who are experiencing a benefit, blind to the fact that any issue is 
with themselves, and not the TM or TMO, or practitioners of TM.  

 This is in no way a defense of the TM Org, which has a lot of issues. But 
there are ways of tackling a problem productively, and there is empty 
complaining. As you say, we are all adults, and nobody appreciates a bunch of 
blowhards trumpeting the same hollow message, that they know the real truth 
about TM and the TMO and are here to enlighten the rest of us. What rubbish.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers 
and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific justification in the shape of 
Marshy's crap lectures about the unified field and continuing with John 
Hagelin's equally crap videos about string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to 
mis-sell something. The funny thing is they claim to be interested in science 
and yet they never put any of the more dubious products on the TM price list 
under any sort of serious scrutiny.
 

 Now, this discussion about Nader and how he could possibly have so much money 
(how much does he have? ) seems like many are jumping to conclusions about his 
guilt with regard to the Movement handing over millions of dollars to him for 
some reason. Why would they do this? Is he worth that much to them? I don't 
know Nader from a hole in the ground other than, I believe, he possesses a gold 
outfit complete with crown in his closet. I suggest people get some hard facts 
before proclaiming his guilt from the rooftops. BTW, where did you get your 
information? Judy seems to think that is important and you didn't answer that 
question in your response here.
 

 Judy has consistently demonstrated that she is an idiot to the extent that I 
never read her posts. She knows as well as I do where all this information 
about King Tony comes from. Is there another explanation for the wealth of the 
Nader family other than the TMO setting him up as some sort of world leader in 
waiting? If there is I haven't seen it, as he's a public figure appointed by 
Marshy to be the hereditary ruler of his domain I think we are owed an 
explanation. But I don't trust the TMO about money for the reasons I have 
stated.
 

 

 

 

 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html

 
 
 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 
Reformatted to (hopefully) make the two links clickable...
 

 

 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 

 (snip)
 

 Judy has consistently demonstrated that she is an idiot to the extent that I 
never read her posts. She knows as well as I do where all this information 
about King Tony comes from.
 

 If Salyavin read my posts, he'd know I've said I'd tell folks where it came 
from if he refused.
 

 Salyavin's "information" about King Tony is, at best, third-hand. It came from 
two posts to FFL2 by JamesAlan735 (who used to post to FFL) recounting a dinner 
conversation he claims to have had with a friend, someone said to be in the 
know about the inner doings of the TMO:
 

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9948
 

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9970
 

 JamesAlan, however, like Barry, happens to be one of those people who delight 
in making stuff up and presenting it as if it were established fact. He made 
two different posts to FFL2, for example, in which he asserted that my extended 
absence from FFL not long ago was due to my having had "a series of strokes."
 

 I have never had even one stroke. He made this up out of whole cloth.
 

 Now, that doesn't *necessarily* mean JamesAlan also made up the story about 
the dinner conversation with his friend. But it's a red flag, IMHO, that should 
lead one to insist on confirmation of the dinner-conversation story from 
someone known to be well informed and honest.
 
 

 That Salyavin has declined to say where he got his "information," given the 
nature of its source, tells me he is aware that it's iffy but doesn't want 
FFLers to know that.
 

 But you can all make up your own minds about the reliability of this TMO/Tony 
tale.
 

 


 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 

 (snip)
 

 Judy has consistently demonstrated that she is an idiot to the extent that I 
never read her posts. She knows as well as I do where all this information 
about King Tony comes from.
 

 If Salyavin read my posts, he'd know I've said I'd tell folks where it came 
from if he refused.
 

 Salyavin's "information" about King Tony is, at best, third-hand. It came from 
two posts to FFL2 by JamesAlan735 (who used to post to FFL) recounting a dinner 
conversation he claims to have had with a friend, someone said to be in the 
know about the inner doings of the TMO:
 

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9948
 

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FFL-2/conversations/messages/9970
 

 JamesAlan, however, like Barry, happens to be one of those people who delight 
in making stuff up and presenting it as if it were established fact. He made 
two different posts to FFL2, for example, in which he asserted that my extended 
absence from FFL not long ago was due to my having had "a series of strokes."
 

 I have never had even one stroke. He made this up out of whole cloth.
 

 Now, that doesn't *necessarily* mean JamesAlan also made up the story about 
the dinner conversation with his friend. But it's a red flag, IMHO, that should 
lead one to insist on confirmation of the dinner-conversation story from 
someone known to be well informed and honest.
 
 

 That Salyavin has declined to say where he got his "information," given the 
nature of its source, tells me he is aware that it's iffy but doesn't want 
FFLers to know that.
 

 But you can all make up your own minds about the reliability of this TMO/Tony 
tale.
 

 


 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Strange, ain't it.  Someone, in this case, Salyavin, feeling they need to save 
someone from themselves.  As if there is not abundant information to peruse 
with regard to the TM movement such that Salyavin feels the impassioned need to 
take on the role. 

 What becomes a little weird is that there is no difference from this attitude 
and the fundamentalist attitude that "they" (the fundamentalist) knows what's 
best for another, and therefore makes it a mission to convert "the other". And 
then, you must ask, where does it end.  
 

 The title of this autobiography is, "How I Became a Tyrant"
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers 
and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific justification in the shape of 
Marshy's crap lectures about the unified field and continuing with John 
Hagelin's equally crap videos about string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to 
mis-sell something. The funny thing is they claim to be interested in science 
and yet they never put any of the more dubious products on the TM price list 
under any sort of serious scrutiny.
 

 Now, this discussion about Nader and how he could possibly have so much money 
(how much does he have? ) seems like many are jumping to conclusions about his 
guilt with regard to the Movement handing over millions of dollars to him for 
some reason. Why would they do this? Is he worth that much to them? I don't 
know Nader from a hole in the ground other than, I believe, he possesses a gold 
outfit complete with crown in his closet. I suggest people get some hard facts 
before proclaiming his guilt from the rooftops. BTW, where did you get your 
information? Judy seems to think that is important and you didn't answer that 
question in your response here.
 

 Judy has consistently demonstrated that she is an idiot to the extent that I 
never read her posts. She knows as well as I do where all this information 
about King Tony comes from. Is there another explanation for the wealth of the 
Nader family other than the TMO setting him up as some sort of world leader in 
waiting? If there is I haven't seen it, as he's a public figure appointed by 
Marshy to be the hereditary ruler of his domain I think we are owed an 
explanation. But I don't trust the TMO about money for the reasons I have 
stated.
 

 

 

 

 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html

 
 
 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 
 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 Question: Do 501(c)(3) non-profit corporations have to make their financial 
statements available to the public? Answer: Yes. Non-profit corporations ...


 
 View on smallbusiness.findlaw... 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

 

 

 

 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 I figure most of those investing in or tooting the horn for yagya donations 
are grown adults who can decide if they want to spend their money on chanting 
or on a fitbit or the latest VW convertible. 
 

 But can they decide? When you're embroiled in a cult you can really start to 
believe what they tell you as I'm sure you're aware. Obviously it's up to 
people to become scientifically aware and think their way out of the stupidity 
before it bankrupts them or they end up moving to a town where this sort of 
excuse for thinking is taken so much for granted that it becomes a given rather 
than the utterly astonishing load of pseudo-scientific nonsense that it 
actually is.
 

 Grown ups can believe anything they like, but if people you know are 
habitually throwing their money into a hole in the ground - or in this case 
real estate in Florida - when they think they are creating some sort of peace 
creating group of Indian chanters the we owe it to them to darw it to their 
attention or we aren't very good friends.
 

 If you knew someone who was being scammed by a devious pension plan wouldn't 
you tell them if you knew? Yet the TMO gets many millions from selling prayers 
and all the while setting up a pseudo-scientific justification in the shape of 
Marshy's crap lectures about the unified field and continuing with John 
Hagelin's equally crap videos about string theory. It's a deliberate attempt to 
mis-sell something. The funny thing is they claim to be interested in science 
and yet they never put any of the more dubious products on the TM price list 
under any sort of serious scrutiny.
 

 Now, this discussion about Nader and how he could possibly have so much money 
(how much does he have? ) seems like many are jumping to conclusions about his 
guilt with regard to the Movement handing over millions of dollars to him for 
some reason. Why would they do this? Is he worth that much to them? I don't 
know Nader from a hole in the ground other than, I believe, he possesses a gold 
outfit complete with crown in his closet. I suggest people get some hard facts 
before proclaiming his guilt from the rooftops. BTW, where did you get your 
information? Judy seems to think that is important and you didn't answer that 
question in your response here.
 

 Judy has consistently demonstrated that she is an idiot to the extent that I 
never read her posts. She knows as well as I do where all this information 
about King Tony comes from. Is there another explanation for the wealth of the 
Nader family other than the TMO setting him up as some sort of world leader in 
waiting? If there is I haven't seen it, as he's a public figure appointed by 
Marshy to be the hereditary ruler of his domain I think we are owed an 
explanation. But I don't trust the TMO about money for the reasons I have 
stated.
 

 

 

 

 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html

 
 
 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 
 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 Question: Do 501(c)(3) non-profit corporations have to make their financial 
statements available to the public? Answer: Yes. Non-profit corporations ...


 
 View on smallbusiness.findlaw... 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

 

 

 

 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 

 They have to do it if they want to retain any credibility here.
 

 How much do they make from yagya's worldwide? We know it's $5 million per 
annum from the monthly national one in the US but how much for all the extra 
private ones. If it's anything like the UK people will be getting them for 
illness, birthdays, dying pets, change the weather etc etc.
 

 To rake in this much cash for something that doesn't work AND not spend it on 
what you've been claiming to spend in on is indefensible.
 

 Non-profit organisations should have open books so we can see how much profit 
it is they don't have.
 

 

 If the TM Movement is a non profit then according to this they need to make 
their financials public, according to this. Have you tried to get this kind of 
information, Sal? I couldn't care less how much they have or what they do with 
it but maybe you should do some digging and report back for all those that do 
care.
 

 I have indeed tried, but I don't have all day to search for this stuff. The 
names of trusts have to be known and it isn't as simple as just doing a search 
on "Marshy etc". Besides, an organisation that would deliberately con money out 
of it's faithful followers might deliberately make it difficult to track down 
perhaps? And a lot of it's in India, do they publish the figures anywhere? I 
wouldn't know where to start.
 

 Other than "Vedaland" - where a slick PR campaign of dubious phone polls and 
financial predictions was put together to impress high earning people for a 
minimum $50,000 investment. The guy designing it (Doug Henning) was on his 
death bed, which didn't get a mention. There was of course no apology - I've 
seen plenty of scam videos featuring John Hagelin, including a fake interview 
with a supposed TV journalist about how fantastic all his research is. Things 
like this are carefully calculated to make a dopey observer on a rounding 
course think it's more widely accepted than it really is. And that isn't even 
getting going on his abuse of physics in using string theory to explain yagyas 
or jyotish etc!
 

 So no, I don't trust them, it's obvious they'll step over legal and moral 
boundaries to make money - it's illegal to raise funds for projects that aren't 
going to happen or to keep the money without offering a refund if a project 
falls apart - in Europe anyway, maybe America has different values for 
charities? I doubt it though.
 

 The lone protesting voice in all of this was mine, of course. I was told to 
"Shut up, stop rocking the boat, Marshy knows what he's doing, the money goes 
to the best place, sometimes we raise money and Marshy senses that natural law 
has changed and it's suddenly needed elsewhere" etc. Typical cult apologetics, 
people in the TMO don't last long if they ask tricky questions - I sure didn't 
-  but it surprises me that you don't care, people round here are your friends 
aren't they? 
 

 Here is the thing, Sal. I left the TM movement when I decided Robin Carlsen 
was an interesting guy back in 1983. One of the things that made him so 
interesting was his utter contempt for the TM Movement - not MMY - but the 
Movement. I have always been a scofflaw and while at MIU and afterwards this 
was no exception. I had no interest in investing in anything (other than a 
necklace of crystals from the Crest Jewel in FF) and I certainly would have 
never gotten involved in building palaces or giving money for such a thing to 
be undertaken. I would never pay for a yagya or give $1m to become a Raja 
(although I could have). I got my education at MIU and moved to New Jersey and 
other than 3.5 years skipping around the US with Robin I haven't thought of the 
TM Movement since 1986. 
 

 Out of the blue I find myself engaging on FFL a few years ago and suddenly I 
see a lot of disgruntled people still talking about Maharishi or the lousy time 
they had baking bread in the MIU kitchen. I don't like the stuffed shirts in 
the Movement any more than you do and while reading FFL I have learned a lot 
about all sorts of zany plans to build this Peace Palace or that giant lingam 
dedicated to Maharishi's manhood or whatever they are 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 

 They have to do it if they want to retain any credibility here.
 

 How much do they make from yagya's worldwide? We know it's $5 million per 
annum from the monthly national one in the US but how much for all the extra 
private ones. If it's anything like the UK people will be getting them for 
illness, birthdays, dying pets, change the weather etc etc.
 

 To rake in this much cash for something that doesn't work AND not spend it on 
what you've been claiming to spend in on is indefensible.
 

 Non-profit organisations should have open books so we can see how much profit 
it is they don't have.
 

 

 If the TM Movement is a non profit then according to this they need to make 
their financials public, according to this. Have you tried to get this kind of 
information, Sal? I couldn't care less how much they have or what they do with 
it but maybe you should do some digging and report back for all those that do 
care.
 

 I have indeed tried, but I don't have all day to search for this stuff. The 
names of trusts have to be known and it isn't as simple as just doing a search 
on "Marshy etc". Besides, an organisation that would deliberately con money out 
of it's faithful followers might deliberately make it difficult to track down 
perhaps? And a lot of it's in India, do they publish the figures anywhere? I 
wouldn't know where to start.
 

 Other than "Vedaland" - where a slick PR campaign of dubious phone polls and 
financial predictions was put together to impress high earning people for a 
minimum $50,000 investment. The guy designing it (Doug Henning) was on his 
death bed, which didn't get a mention. There was of course no apology - I've 
seen plenty of scam videos featuring John Hagelin, including a fake interview 
with a supposed TV journalist about how fantastic all his research is. Things 
like this are carefully calculated to make a dopey observer on a rounding 
course think it's more widely accepted than it really is. And that isn't even 
getting going on his abuse of physics in using string theory to explain yagyas 
or jyotish etc!
 

 So no, I don't trust them, it's obvious they'll step over legal and moral 
boundaries to make money - it's illegal to raise funds for projects that aren't 
going to happen or to keep the money without offering a refund if a project 
falls apart - in Europe anyway, maybe America has different values for 
charities? I doubt it though.
 

 The lone protesting voice in all of this was mine, of course. I was told to 
"Shut up, stop rocking the boat, Marshy knows what he's doing, the money goes 
to the best place, sometimes we raise money and Marshy senses that natural law 
has changed and it's suddenly needed elsewhere" etc. Typical cult apologetics, 
people in the TMO don't last long if they ask tricky questions - I sure didn't 
-  but it surprises me that you don't care, people round here are your friends 
aren't they? 
 

 

 

 

 

 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html

 
 
 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 
 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 Question: Do 501(c)(3) non-profit corporations have to make their financial 
statements available to the public? Answer: Yes. Non-profit corporations ...


 
 View on smallbusiness.findlaw... 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

 

 

 

 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Here in town all kinds of people tell me all kinds of information hoping to 
have perspectives shared more widely on FFL.  This comes along as E-mail from 
lurkers too using the FFL home page. 
 

 I also forward links direct to relevant posts on FFL to people who would be 
interested.  I did that with this thread on 'the new lot'. The e-mail excerpted 
below here came from a credible person inside the TMO who I know. 
 

 As things come in that are written as good journalism relevant to Farifield 
life I just won’t use people’s names in protecting people's privacy.  As there 
is good substantial content then names don’t necessarily matter.   People, both 
members and non-members of FFL, send all kinds of insight about Fairfield life 
hoping to have them shared with the community, anonymously. That is fine. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Maybe they are buying the parcel just to Florida-flip it for a tidy gross 
profit to then donate the proceeds to support the science-based spiritual good 
works of global peace creating by the TM movement. 
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Maybe people are jumping to conclusions. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We’ll know more about this shortly from the top down.  Maharaja will be in 
Fairfield speaking to the meditating community on Monday.  

 

So the lot evidently is about achieving proper vastu and no movement money was 
used.  That does not mean that some Movement community courtier might not have 
furnish some money being helpful buying a little access, influence or favor of 
the Maharaja.  We are not in Kansas?  Someone else who seems to know the Naders 
says that they do not have that kind of money, that they are being helped.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 I also posted a link to some wikilinks financial statements from 2004-05 but 
they haven't shown up yet. Here is more: 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Maybe people are jumping to conclusions. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We’ll know more about this shortly from the top down.  Maharaja will be in 
Fairfield speaking to the meditating community on Monday.  

 

So the lot evidently is about achieving proper vastu and no movement money was 
used.  That does not mean that some Movement community courtier might not have 
furnish some money being helpful buying a little access, influence or favor of 
the Maharaja.  We are not in Kansas?  Someone else who seems to know the Naders 
says that they do not have that kind of money, that they are being helped.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 I also posted a link to some wikilinks financial statements from 2004-05 but 
they haven't shown up yet. Here is more: 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

We’ll know more about this shortly from the top down.  Maharaja will be in 
Fairfield speaking to the meditating community on Monday.  

 

So the lot evidently is about achieving proper vastu and no movement money was 
used.  That does not mean that some Movement community courtier might not have 
furnish some money being helpful buying a little access, influence or favor of 
the Maharaja.  We are not in Kansas?  Someone else who seems to know the Naders 
says that they do not have that kind of money, that they are being helped.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 I also posted a link to some wikilinks financial statements from 2004-05 but 
they haven't shown up yet. Here is more: 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 I also posted a link to some wikilinks financial statements from 2004-05 but 
they haven't shown up yet. Here is more: 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 
https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Transcendental_Meditation_Maharishi_developer_confidentialy_agreements,_legal_and_Sthapatya_Veda_documents,_2005
 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

So the lot evidently is about achieving proper vastu and no movement money was 
used.  That does not mean that some Movement community courtier might not have 
furnish some money being helpful buying a little access, influence or favor of 
the Maharaja.  We are not in Kansas?  Someone else who seems to know the Naders 
says that they do not have that kind of money, that they are being helped.  
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 Salyavin wrote:
 

Full details provided if you like but it's all in the archives here. 

 Ask him to provide the "full details." Again, if he doesn't, I will.
 

 I think Doug should also tell us the source of the email he quotes (without 
mentioning names).
 

 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 

 They have to do it if they want to retain any credibility here.
 

 How much do they make from yagya's worldwide? We know it's $5 million per 
annum from the monthly national one in the US but how much for all the extra 
private ones. If it's anything like the UK people will be getting them for 
illness, birthdays, dying pets, change the weather etc etc.
 

 To rake in this much cash for something that doesn't work AND not spend it on 
what you've been claiming to spend in on is indefensible.
 

 Non-profit organisations should have open books so we can see how much profit 
it is they don't have.
 

 

 If the TM Movement is a non profit then according to this they need to make 
their financials public, according to this. Have you tried to get this kind of 
information, Sal? I couldn't care less how much they have or what they do with 
it but maybe you should do some digging and report back for all those that do 
care.
 

 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html

 
 
 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 
 
 Nonprofit Financial Statements - FindLaw 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 Question: Do 501(c)(3) non-profit corporations have to make their financial 
statements available to the public? Answer: Yes. Non-profit corporations ...
 
 
 
 View on smallbusiness.findlaw... 
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/incorporation-and-legal-structures/nonprofit-financial-statements.html
 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
 

 

 

 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John Hagelin to make it all sound scientific with a video about 
string theory, and everyone will think it's valid in some sort of demonstrable 
way, Before you know it the millions are rolling in from the hopeful flock who 
have been brainwashed for decades with crap about vedas and  physics and now 
vedas and physiology.
 

 I do remember them saying that they'd give refunds in future if the "peace 
creating" pundit groups didn't happen. Well they didn't happen, not even 
slightly. This recent layout of funds on big houses for the bigwigs gives the 
lie to that. It should be obvious that not even they believe all that 
"coherence creating" bullshit, the question is: What are TMers going to do 
about it? 
 

 I'm sure you all received the letter I did recently, about doubling your 
monthly donation for the yagya programme? Bet you didn't think it was going on 
flying lessons for the King, expensive jeweller for his wife, or expensive - 
and non TM - schools for their kids.
 

 Keep the money rolling in, Heaven on Earth awaits. Just not for you
 



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Tonight's Phone Call with Maharaja Rajaraam
 

 Enjoy an Evening with
Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam
 Extra seating will be available in Festival Hall

 

 We are looking 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

 Oh dear, well instead of lamenting your friends' gullibility and pulling your 
hair out, why not make it your mission to do some detective work and find out 
for sure where Dr Nader is getting his money from? I'm sure you could hire some 
investigative tax detective if you can't figure out how to do it yourself. 
Maybe you should write him a letter and ask him personally how he has managed 
to become a millionaire? For me, I hardly think having a few million dollars as 
a highly-trained professional is unusual but every man to his own belief. 
Perhaps if you ask nicely, Tony will even perform a yagya or two just to show 
his good faith. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

 Does that placate you? It doesn't me, full financial disclosure is the order 
of the day I'm afraid, I'm sick of watching my mates get ripped off for stupid 
prayers when it's highly unlikely they even do them. You might say that as they 
don't work it doesn't matter that they don't do them but it's hardly the point. 
I've spent decades watching the slick blackmailing of donations from the 
faithful just to see the promised buildings/courses whatever not happen. If 
people knew what was going on there would have to be some accountability.
 

 Just the other day I got a plea to double my monthly donations to the world 
peace programme (I don't actually make one but I know a lot who do) and all the 
while the King is larging it in Florida with his kids not even in a TM school! 
Doesn't he believe this stuff either?
 

 I smell major scam. And I smell it because I've been on the receiving end of 
it via the "vedaland" debacle, I know how good they are at this. Full details 
provided if you like but it's all in the archives here.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 

 They have to do it if they want to retain any credibility here.
 

 How much do they make from yagya's worldwide? We know it's $5 million per 
annum from the monthly national one in the US but how much for all the extra 
private ones. If it's anything like the UK people will be getting them for 
illness, birthdays, dying pets, change the weather etc etc.
 

 To rake in this much cash for something that doesn't work AND not spend it on 
what you've been claiming to spend in on is indefensible.
 

 Non-profit organisations should have open books so we can see how much profit 
it is they don't have.
 

 

 

 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John Hagelin to make it all sound scientific with a video about 
string theory, and everyone will think it's valid in some sort of demonstrable 
way, Before you know it the millions are rolling in from the hopeful flock who 
have been brainwashed for decades with crap about vedas and  physics and now 
vedas and physiology.
 

 I do remember them saying that they'd give refunds in future if the "peace 
creating" pundit groups didn't happen. Well they didn't happen, not even 
slightly. This recent layout of funds on big houses for the bigwigs gives the 
lie to that. It should be obvious that not even they believe all that 
"coherence creating" bullshit, the question is: What are TMers going to do 
about it? 
 

 I'm sure you all received the letter I did recently, about doubling your 
monthly donation for the yagya programme? Bet you didn't think it was going on 
flying lessons for the King, expensive jeweller for his wife, or expensive - 
and non TM - schools for their kids.
 

 Keep the money rolling in, Heaven on Earth awaits. Just not for you
 



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Tonight's Phone Call with Maharaja Rajaraam
 

 Enjoy an Evening with
Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam
 Extra seating will be available in Festival Hall

 

 We are looking forward to the phone call from Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam during 
Lesson Two of the Ramayan in Human Physiology Course this evening. Everyone is 
invited. This event is free, and you can come even if you missed Lesson One. It 
starts at 7:45in Dalby Hall. We expect lots of people, so please come early. 
Extra room is provided in Festival Hall.

 

 The first two lessons of the Ramayan in Human Physiology are free and open to 
the community. Everyone is invited. 
 

 The prerequisite for the course is instruction in the TM Technique and 
completion of STC108 or equivalent; or completion of the TM-Sidhis Course and a 
valid dome badge.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Brilliant. Yes, two sides of the same coin, yet not letting go of the coin, 
which rusted through a long time ago. A dodge and distraction from life's 
procession. Both the followers and anti-followers create meaning around an 
object which cannot be perfected nor destroyed, perpetually. A spinning mirror 
to look into, transfixed, instead of simply dealing with the nature of life and 
our intimate relationship with it. The mind as the 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

FW, e-mail:  "..officially, assured that no Movement funds, of any kind, from 
any source, were involved in this purchase. Rajaraam has had a family home 
there for years, and he’s relocating that home in order to be in proper vastu."

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John Hagelin to make it all sound scientific with a video about 
string theory, and everyone will think it's valid in some sort of demonstrable 
way, Before you know it the millions are rolling in from the hopeful flock who 
have been brainwashed for decades with crap about vedas and  physics and now 
vedas and physiology.
 

 I do remember them saying that they'd give refunds in future if the "peace 
creating" pundit groups didn't happen. Well they didn't happen, not even 
slightly. This recent layout of funds on big houses for the bigwigs gives the 
lie to that. It should be obvious that not 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 fw, e-mail:
 

 "As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - how 
can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM family" 
struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, news like 
this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions?"
 

 -) Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?
 

 

 awoelflebater@yahoo,com> wrote:

 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John Hagelin to make it all sound scientific with a video about 
string theory, and everyone will think it's valid in some sort of demonstrable 
way, Before you know it the millions are rolling in from the hopeful flock who 
have been brainwashed for decades with crap about vedas and  physics and now 
vedas and physiology.
 

 I do remember them saying that they'd give refunds in future if the "peace 
creating" pundit groups didn't happen. Well they didn't happen, not even 
slightly. This recent layout of funds on big houses for the bigwigs gives the 
lie to that. It should be obvious that not even they believe all that 
"coherence creating" bullshit, the question is: What are TMers going to do 
about it? 
 

 I'm sure you all received the letter I did recently, about doubling your 
monthly donation for the yagya programme? Bet you didn't think it was going on 
flying lessons for the King, expensive 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

FW: “ ..While World Peace lives on food stamps up on campus.  ..they are so out 
of touch with reality it seems like a mental illness.” 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 Comments or clarifications composed
 within the bounds of the Yahoo-groups guidelines might be added
 to this thread by sending e-mail to:
 List Owner : fairfieldlife-ow...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:fairfieldlife-ow...@yahoogroups.com
 

 That is a possible way for non-members to be able to add comments or 
clarifications in to threads on FairfieldLife.
 


 FW:   As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - 
how can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM 
family" struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, 
news like this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions? 

 Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?

 ?

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?
 

 Somebody should ask Salyavin about his sources. (If he won't tell you, I will.)
 

 
 I'd be happy to: Hey Salyavin, tell me about the sources for your assertions 
here or, like many of those silly participants on FB, are we simply to believe 
what you wrote without some sort of real facts behind your assertions? 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 
 Comments or clarifications composed
 within the bounds of the Yahoo-groups guidelines might be added
 to this thread by sending e-mail to:
 List Owner : fairfieldlife-ow...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:fairfieldlife-ow...@yahoogroups.com
 
 
 You can easily find this email address link too at the bottom of the 
FairfieldLife home page within Yahoo-Groups.
 

 #
 That is a possible way for non-members to be able to add comments or 
clarifications in to threads on FairfieldLife.
 #
 

 ..A link to the Yahoo-groups Guidelines for material being posted to 
FairfieldLife a Yahoo-Group can be found
 on the FairfieldLife home page. 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/info 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/info
 
 
 Some extended discussion threads on composition and posting to FairfieldLife 
as a Yahoo-group are at:
 Re: The Yahoo-Groups Guidelines 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/425575 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/425575
 
 
 Reaffirming The Yahoo-Groups Guidelines 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/417856 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/417856
 

 
 -JaiGuruYou
 
 
 
 
 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 FW:   As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - 
how can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM 
family" struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, 
news like this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions? 

 Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?

 ?

 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?
 

 Somebody should ask Salyavin about his sources. (If he won't tell you, I will.)
 

 
 I'd be happy to: Hey Salyavin, tell me about the sources for your assertions 
here or, like many of those silly participants on FB, are we simply to believe 
what you wrote without some sort of real facts behind your assertions? 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

FW:   As MUM struggles and as the movement struggles, the question will be - 
how can Maharaj continue to pour money in his personal home, while his "MUM 
family" struggles on in poverty? He is certainly likeable enough but surely, 
news like this will shake people up enough to ask the real questions? 

 Did you hear the news that Maharaj just invested in a half-acre lot in Palm 
Beach right down the road from his current estate 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=1=0ahUKEwj_j8uf9L3MAhWjkIMKHQteDecQFggdMAA=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachdailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fbusiness%2Freal-estate%2Fpalm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom%2FnqDbj%2F=AFQjCNEhCAgVJdHxhLOlCy1uzNNTr6C6tw=u19zPT0QCJSPvWlrt_rIHA?

 ?

 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?
 

 Somebody should ask Salyavin about his sources. (If he won't tell you, I will.)
 

 
 I'd be happy to: Hey Salyavin, tell me about the sources for your assertions 
here or, like many of those silly participants on FB, are we simply to believe 
what you wrote without some sort of real facts behind your assertions? 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John Hagelin to make it all sound scientific with a video about 
string theory, and everyone will think it's valid in some sort of demonstrable 
way, Before you know it the millions are rolling in from the hopeful flock who 
have been brainwashed for decades with crap about vedas and  physics and now 
vedas and physiology.
 

 I do remember them saying that they'd give refunds in future if the "peace 
creating" pundit groups didn't happen. Well they didn't happen, not even 
slightly. This recent layout of funds on big houses for the bigwigs gives the 
lie to that. It 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou  
 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know? 
  

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John Hagelin to make it all sound scientific with a video about 
string theory, and everyone will think it's valid in some sort of demonstrable 
way, Before you know it the millions are rolling in from the hopeful flock who 
have been brainwashed for decades with crap about vedas and  physics and now 
vedas and physiology.
 

 I do remember them saying that they'd give refunds in future if the "peace 
creating" pundit groups didn't happen. Well they didn't happen, not even 
slightly. This recent layout of funds on big houses for the bigwigs gives the 
lie to that. It should be obvious that not even they believe all that 
"coherence creating" bullshit, the question is: What are TMers going to do 
about it? 
 

 I'm sure you all received the letter I did recently, about doubling your 
monthly donation for the yagya programme? Bet you didn't think it was going on 
flying lessons for the King, expensive jeweller for his wife, or expensive - 
and non TM - schools for their kids.
 

 Keep the money rolling in, Heaven on Earth awaits. Just not for you
 



 

 














  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   
 

 Actually, that was my post below. I don't think that sounds like Rick, do you?
 

 But, for sure financial reports on all kinds of ways in which people within 
the Movement make their money and how donated money is spent should be 
mandatory and perhaps it is. Transparency is a good thing - and not just within 
the context of the invisibility sutra. 
 

 I don't have the time or the interest to start to look into financial reports 
the Movement may or may not publish but there seem to be some who are very 
interested in it and so I will leave it up to them to dig away. All I ever did 
was pay for my education at MIU and a mantra back in 1970 (all of my allowance 
at the time which was one pound sterling at the time which, I recall, was the 
equivalent of $1.40 US). Other than that I have neither donated time nor money 
to any other aspect of Maharishi's/the Movement's real estate plans, palaces, 
honey or yagyas. Consequently, I am not compelled to worry about whether Tony 
Nader's lavish lifestyle has been financed by those who thought they were 
paying for a healing effect brought on by those yodeling a yagya or two or 
whether he has inherited, earned or won the money via lottery. But, by all 
means, dig up those financials - if they don't exist surely laws in the US with 
regard to corporations like the TM Movement require such a thing. Anyone know?
 


 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John Hagelin to make it all sound scientific with a video about 
string theory, and everyone will think it's valid in some sort of demonstrable 
way, Before you know it the millions are rolling in from the hopeful flock who 
have been brainwashed for decades with crap about vedas and  physics and now 
vedas and physiology.
 

 I do remember them saying that they'd give refunds in future if the "peace 
creating" pundit groups didn't happen. Well they didn't happen, not even 
slightly. This recent layout of funds on big houses for the bigwigs gives the 
lie to that. It should be obvious that not even they believe all that 
"coherence creating" bullshit, the question is: What are TMers going to do 
about it? 
 

 I'm sure you all received the letter I did recently, about doubling your 
monthly donation for the yagya programme? Bet you didn't think it was going on 
flying lessons for the King, expensive jeweller for his wife, or expensive - 
and non TM - schools for their kids.
 

 Keep the money rolling in, Heaven on Earth awaits. Just not for you
 



 

 













  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Rick makes a good point about this below.  Different than Tony Nader’s larger 
French Lebanese family portfolio or some of the other altruistic TM big-wigs 
this comes as another good reason for the TM movement to post its financials on 
operations in detail on its webpages.  Not just pie-charts but standard 
financial statements in detail readily available to read.  If TM and all its 
shells is non-profit and charitable prove that it is well run by its trustees 
right now.  Once again TM's integrity is an open question.
 -JaiGuruYou   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 
 

 salyavin808 writes:

 

 This is the TMO doing what it does best. Soliciting donations for it's "world 
plan for world peace, bringing enlightenment and prosperity to all nations" and 
then spending it all on real estate.
 

 They have big plans you see, the idea has always a world wide network of 
palaces and embassies for the "rajas", but no one would pay for that directly 
so they get you with the old "pundit program" scam, it still seems to work, get 
a maniac like John Hagelin to make it all sound scientific with a video about 
string theory, and everyone will think it's valid in some sort of demonstrable 
way, Before you know it the millions are rolling in from the hopeful flock who 
have been brainwashed for decades with crap about vedas and  physics and now 
vedas and physiology.
 

 I do remember them saying that they'd give refunds in future if the "peace 
creating" pundit groups didn't happen. Well they didn't happen, not even 
slightly. This recent layout of funds on big houses for the bigwigs gives the 
lie to that. It should be obvious that not even they believe all that 
"coherence creating" bullshit, the question is: What are TMers going to do 
about it? 
 

 I'm sure you all received the letter I did recently, about doubling your 
monthly donation for the yagya programme? Bet you didn't think it was going on 
flying lessons for the King, expensive jeweller for his wife, or expensive - 
and non TM - schools for their kids.
 

 Keep the money rolling in, Heaven on Earth awaits. Just not for you
 



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Tonight's Phone Call with Maharaja Rajaraam
 

 Enjoy an Evening with
Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam
 Extra seating will be available in Festival Hall

 

 We are looking forward to the phone call from Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam during 
Lesson Two of the Ramayan in Human Physiology Course this evening. Everyone is 
invited. This event is free, and you can come even if you missed Lesson One. It 
starts at 7:45in Dalby Hall. We expect lots of people, so please come early. 
Extra room is provided in Festival Hall.

 

 The first two lessons of the Ramayan in Human Physiology are free and open to 
the community. Everyone is invited. 
 

 The prerequisite for the course is instruction in the TM Technique and 
completion of STC108 or equivalent; or completion of the TM-Sidhis Course and a 
valid dome badge.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Brilliant. Yes, two sides of the same coin, yet not letting go of the coin, 
which rusted through a long time ago. A dodge and distraction from life's 
procession. Both the followers and anti-followers create meaning around an 
object which cannot be perfected nor destroyed, perpetually. A spinning mirror 
to look into, transfixed, instead of simply dealing with the nature of life and 
our intimate relationship with it. The mind as the naked emperor, parading in 
front of its fantasies.  
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, he be the MAHARAJA! I would guess his family has money, especially if 
he's a doctor and hung out with Maharishi a lot. I doubt he has had to spend 
much time in an emergency room or maintain a practice  fixing up people to pay 
off student loans.
 

 It is very apparent that the guy has money, and it makes sense to me. Why 
wouldn't a highly educated medical man have made a decent amount of money and 
has anyone (imagine!) considered that perhaps his wife has a good job? Or 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Tonight's Phone Call with Maharaja Rajaraam
 

 Enjoy an Evening with
Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam
 Extra seating will be available in Festival Hall

 

 We are looking forward to the phone call from Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam during 
Lesson Two of the Ramayan in Human Physiology Course this evening. Everyone is 
invited. This event is free, and you can come even if you missed Lesson One. It 
starts at 7:45in Dalby Hall. We expect lots of people, so please come early. 
Extra room is provided in Festival Hall.

 

 The first two lessons of the Ramayan in Human Physiology are free and open to 
the community. Everyone is invited. 
 

 The prerequisite for the course is instruction in the TM Technique and 
completion of STC108 or equivalent; or completion of the TM-Sidhis Course and a 
valid dome badge.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Brilliant. Yes, two sides of the same coin, yet not letting go of the coin, 
which rusted through a long time ago. A dodge and distraction from life's 
procession. Both the followers and anti-followers create meaning around an 
object which cannot be perfected nor destroyed, perpetually. A spinning mirror 
to look into, transfixed, instead of simply dealing with the nature of life and 
our intimate relationship with it. The mind as the naked emperor, parading in 
front of its fantasies.  
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, he be the MAHARAJA! I would guess his family has money, especially if 
he's a doctor and hung out with Maharishi a lot. I doubt he has had to spend 
much time in an emergency room or maintain a practice  fixing up people to pay 
off student loans.
 

 It is very apparent that the guy has money, and it makes sense to me. Why 
wouldn't a highly educated medical man have made a decent amount of money and 
has anyone (imagine!) considered that perhaps his wife has a good job? Or maybe 
there is family money as well. 
 
 As for some of these other people who became rajas and ranis, I've heard at 
least one and maybe more had to virtually beg for assistance to pay the million 
dollar fee. The TM movement is and always been full of idiots. I have my doubts 
as to whether many could have made it in the real world.
 

 I know for a fact they couldn't and didn't. There are so many airy fairy 
neurotics who crowd into the lineup to see their current favorite guru or who 
run, feverishly, to jump on some bandwagon that sounds like the next greatest 
thing. There are many "misfits" and just plain strange human beings on this 
Earth and we have a small proportion right here on FFL (not to mention over at 
number 2) who fell into that category and who still appear (as of my last 
viewing of them before the Great Divide) just as obsessed as ever with the 
Movement and what it's up to or how they can work out their unresolved feelings 
about having been screwed by MMY and those who were his "henchmen". You really 
have to wonder what it would take for many of them to simply move on and make 
an effort to unencumber themselves from it all. Personally, I sense a kind of 
addiction - as twisted as it actually is. The irony of it all is many of these 
obsessors think of themselves as unattached just because they have a negative 
opinion. It doesn't matter whether one's opinion is negative or positive; as 
long as you keep obsessing and showing interest you're still very much involved.
 

 

 From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 10:38 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot
 
 
   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/

 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 




 


 
















  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Brilliant. Yes, two sides of the same coin, yet not letting go of the coin, 
which rusted through a long time ago. A dodge and distraction from life's 
procession. Both the followers and anti-followers create meaning around an 
object which cannot be perfected nor destroyed, perpetually. A spinning mirror 
to look into, transfixed, instead of simply dealing with the nature of life and 
our intimate relationship with it. The mind as the naked emperor, parading in 
front of its fantasies.  
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, he be the MAHARAJA! I would guess his family has money, especially if 
he's a doctor and hung out with Maharishi a lot. I doubt he has had to spend 
much time in an emergency room or maintain a practice  fixing up people to pay 
off student loans.
 

 It is very apparent that the guy has money, and it makes sense to me. Why 
wouldn't a highly educated medical man have made a decent amount of money and 
has anyone (imagine!) considered that perhaps his wife has a good job? Or maybe 
there is family money as well. 
 
 As for some of these other people who became rajas and ranis, I've heard at 
least one and maybe more had to virtually beg for assistance to pay the million 
dollar fee. The TM movement is and always been full of idiots. I have my doubts 
as to whether many could have made it in the real world.
 

 I know for a fact they couldn't and didn't. There are so many airy fairy 
neurotics who crowd into the lineup to see their current favorite guru or who 
run, feverishly, to jump on some bandwagon that sounds like the next greatest 
thing. There are many "misfits" and just plain strange human beings on this 
Earth and we have a small proportion right here on FFL (not to mention over at 
number 2) who fell into that category and who still appear (as of my last 
viewing of them before the Great Divide) just as obsessed as ever with the 
Movement and what it's up to or how they can work out their unresolved feelings 
about having been screwed by MMY and those who were his "henchmen". You really 
have to wonder what it would take for many of them to simply move on and make 
an effort to unencumber themselves from it all. Personally, I sense a kind of 
addiction - as twisted as it actually is. The irony of it all is many of these 
obsessors think of themselves as unattached just because they have a negative 
opinion. It doesn't matter whether one's opinion is negative or positive; as 
long as you keep obsessing and showing interest you're still very much involved.
 

 

 From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 10:38 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot
 
 
   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/

 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 




 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Yeah, he be the MAHARAJA! I would guess his family has money, especially if 
he's a doctor and hung out with Maharishi a lot. I doubt he has had to spend 
much time in an emergency room or maintain a practice  fixing up people to pay 
off student loans.
 

 It is very apparent that the guy has money, and it makes sense to me. Why 
wouldn't a highly educated medical man have made a decent amount of money and 
has anyone (imagine!) considered that perhaps his wife has a good job? Or maybe 
there is family money as well. 
 
 As for some of these other people who became rajas and ranis, I've heard at 
least one and maybe more had to virtually beg for assistance to pay the million 
dollar fee. The TM movement is and always been full of idiots. I have my doubts 
as to whether many could have made it in the real world.
 

 I know for a fact they couldn't and didn't. There are so many airy fairy 
neurotics who crowd into the lineup to see their current favorite guru or who 
run, feverishly, to jump on some bandwagon that sounds like the next greatest 
thing. There are many "misfits" and just plain strange human beings on this 
Earth and we have a small proportion right here on FFL (not to mention over at 
number 2) who fell into that category and who still appear (as of my last 
viewing of them before the Great Divide) just as obsessed as ever with the 
Movement and what it's up to or how they can work out their unresolved feelings 
about having been screwed by MMY and those who were his "henchmen". You really 
have to wonder what it would take for many of them to simply move on and make 
an effort to unencumber themselves from it all. Personally, I sense a kind of 
addiction - as twisted as it actually is. The irony of it all is many of these 
obsessors think of themselves as unattached just because they have a negative 
opinion. It doesn't matter whether one's opinion is negative or positive; as 
long as you keep obsessing and showing interest you're still very much involved.
 


 From: "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 10:38 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot
 
 
   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
 
http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/

 

 I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum. 




 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

even a harem.


  From: "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 12:22 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot
   
    


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

He is sort of like the TM Pope. yeah, Maharishi paid him his weight in gold in 
1998 and it was "only" worth $288/oz. then. He has some money if he held onto 
it. ...I wonder if he bulked up before the weigh in? "Yeah, three large combo 
pizzas, double cheese...ok, bread-sticks too...do you guys still sell those 
cinnamon buns??...". If it was me I'd have walked in still munching a sub, 
heavy flack vest under my shirt, fishing weights in my crotch, pockets full of 
marbles, a sandbag down the back of my pants, barely able to mount the scale...
You're frickin' hilarious. I wasn't sure if he was supposed to, as a Raja, 
declare lifelong celibacy, give away all earthly goods, swear off anything to 
eat except stale bread and water and wander the world washing the feet of 
beggars. On the other hand, with a title like "Raja" I would expect some sort 
of palatial digs in Palm Beach and a host of attentive slaves at his beck and 
call.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum.   
#yiv0246892266 #yiv0246892266 -- #yiv0246892266ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I'd bet a dime to a doughnut hole that Tony returned the gold to Maharishi the 
moment the weighing was over.

  From: "olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 11:07 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot
   
    He is sort of like the TM Pope. yeah, Maharishi paid him his weight in gold 
in 1998 and it was "only" worth $288/oz. then. He has some money if he held 
onto it. ...I wonder if he bulked up before the weigh in? "Yeah, three large 
combo pizzas, double cheese...ok, bread-sticks too...do you guys still sell 
those cinnamon buns??...". If it was me I'd have walked in still munching a 
sub, heavy flack vest under my shirt, fishing weights in my crotch, pockets 
full of marbles, a sandbag down the back of my pants, barely able to mount the 
scale... 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum.   
#yiv6688728675 #yiv6688728675 -- #yiv6688728675ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid 
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv6688728675 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot

[Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Yeah, he be the MAHARAJA! I would guess his family has money, especially if 
he's a doctor and hung out with Maharishi a lot. I doubt he has had to spend 
much time in an emergency room or maintain a practice  fixing up people to pay 
off student loans.
As for some of these other people who became rajas and ranis, I've heard at 
least one and maybe more had to virtually beg for assistance to pay the million 
dollar fee. The TM movement is and always been full of idiots. I have my doubts 
as to whether many could have made it in the real world.

  From: "awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 10:38 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Tony Nader's new lot
   
    


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

http://m.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/business/real-estate/palm-beacher-pays-43m-for-lot-a-half-mile-from-hom/nqDbj/
I just read this. Isn't Tony Nader one of the Rajas? Or is he just a 
scientist/doctor? Not having been a follower of what goes on in the TM Movement 
since 1985 I presume this is news - the fact that he has some bucks? If you're 
a Raja don't you have had to have donated a wheelbarrow full of money or 
something? If that is the case, the amount is $1m (?) then it comes as no 
surprise that someone has a lot more than that in their bank account. Only an 
idiot would donate $1m and not have at least $10m in the bank, minimum.   
#yiv5222569949 #yiv5222569949 -- #yiv5222569949ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid 
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