Re: Here is the link
Glenda, many of us here mix our vaccinated negatives with our positives. It is a calculated risk that takes into account quality of life, as is your decision to allow your cats outside. In my situation, with my neighborhood and my street-senseless cats, an outdoor kitty is a risk that I won't take. Your situation may be very different. I guess I am just trying to suggest that we ALL care deeply for our cats, and that we be gentler with each other when voicing our different opinions. It does the cats no good if all of us crazy cat ladies start attacking each other. Sherry has worked so hard, and takes each loss so personally, and for that I thank her. Best wishes, Beth, Blue, Moxie, Dash, Scooter. and Will Feral On 9/24/07, glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sherry, ...Sherry I am trying to control my emotions ,but I have to tell you I am scared to death for these two groups of cats. I am believing/hoping your girl Mystique is vaccinated...that could help, but she is at terrible risk. Her immune system is already compromised by the FIV. I cannot implore you strongly enough to please get her out of Crash'slanding ASAP! You have been lucky with your FIV kitties and especially with your kitty who threw the FIV. When I read about the beautiful Mystique, I felt relieved that she was only FIV+. I felt you would have good luck with her and she might live a pretty normal life. The fact she is in a situation where she can contract the FeLV virus any day now, is making me a little crazy...I worry about her and everyone else in that environment...and what about the kitties that might possibly be able one day, to throw one of the viruses or the other? What chance do any of them really have...They are at huge risk of getting THE OTHER virus. There has to be a way to seperate the two groups. FIV+ kitties have such a better chance , but here they are almost certainly, over time going to become FeLV+ too. You need to get Mystique out of there. You should have her tested for both FIV and FeLV, just so you know, what you will be dealing with. Then have her tested again in 4-6 months. If she is FeLV- you are both blessed. If I were you, I'd want to know, for myself, if she is really FIV+. Crash'slanding comes across beautifully on it's intro page and it is set up well to navigate through. The kitties are beautiful. Their stories are well written and touching. This is a nokill shelter, right? The way it appears to me, is a showplace type of place, that collects cats, donations ,but seriously needs to become a bit more cat- friendly...Besides taking in these cats, are they really doing what is best for each cat? If they cannot seperate the FIV+ cats from the FeLV+ cats they should only be dealing with cats with one disease or the other disease and let another shelter deal with the other... Do they get a lot of volunteers as sweet as you? Well, they are lucky if they do. Nobody is driving a cadillac are they...bad joke, sorry. I have one FeLV+ cat in my household of 7-cats. All my cats are vaccinated. Yet I am very, very careful my negatives do not come into contact with my one positive, little girl. If I found out I had a FIV+ cat in my household I would possibly allow him to continue as always with his brothers, but if anyone were to turn up FeLV+ it is quarantine time. FIV is a far easier disease to deal with. I'm in the process of having all my guys tested again, because my guys do get outside at times, supervised, as they are and as confident as I am they have not run into any positive, strange kitties out there, I still believe in knowing their health status every year or so...This, because I do not believe in putting any of my kitties in harm's way. If I were perfect, they would never get outside, at ever, but I love for them to have fun in the yard...I get weak when they beg...I am a bad mommy for that, but I take that risk for the, quality of life, argument... Well, I have done enough damage for one day...Sherry, thank you. And please do not hate me, because ...I do not trust people... Love and best wishes from Nebraska, Glenda --- Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Glenda,isn't she georgeous!!! :) We do not separate the felv and the fiv.I wish we had the space to do so.Until I become one of those crazy cat ladies that win the lottery it will have to do!! :) I myself have 3 fiv+ boys and one boy that tested felv+ when he first arrived to Sids and then 1 1/2 years later tested negative for anything.Then I brought Genevieve home back in April,she was felv+.I risked it because my heart told me to bring that baby girl home to love her as much as possible.AND I DID!! I am getting choked up just writing about her.It will be 4 weeks tomorrow since she left us. :( You did not offend me in anyway,I just get a bit uneasy when it comes to that subject. Thank you for checking out the fur kids.
Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
I never said that you were evil. But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely uninformed..@ best. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... Please dont try to save mty feelings.Just don't read anymore of my posts and I will do the same!! We are not evil people Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .
Re: Here is the link
Allowing mixed pet cats to stay together that have already been exposed is one thing altogether. Deliberately exposing already immune compromised fiv+ cats to felv+ is giving them a death sentence. While she (Not Sherry, the owner) collects donations for this and tells everyone, We do the best that we can. Question, as far as declawing, are the adopters even asked or is it just a given? Sounds like the dark ages. And besides, a cat that is fiv+ is stillvery adoptable, w/an education programset in place. A cat that is felv+ is much harder. A cat that is fiv+ and exposed to felv is just about impossible. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Beth Noren To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:16 AM Subject: Re: Here is the link Glenda, many of us here mix our vaccinated negatives with our positives. It is a calculated risk that takes into account quality of life, as is your decision to allow your cats outside. In my situation, with my neighborhood and my street-senseless cats, an outdoor kitty is a risk that I won't take. Your situation may be very different. I guess I am just trying to suggest that we ALL care deeply for our cats, and that we be gentler with each other when voicing our different opinions. It does the cats no good if all of us crazy cat ladies start attacking each other. Sherry has worked so hard, and takes each loss so personally, and for that I thank her. Best wishes, Beth, Blue, Moxie, Dash, Scooter. and Will Feral
Re: Here is the link
But the FIV cats have not been given a death sentence, they have been vaccinated for a much reduced risk of a catching FeLV. They are weighing that risk against the risk of death on the streets or in a kill shelter. If anyone believes that that risk is not justified they can say so in a much nicer way than calling the place a hell hole and attacking poor Sherry. From my experience, I do believe that some rescues are too set on the idea that declaws are neccesary to attract adopters. Our local rescue declaws every kitten it can before offering it for adoption. When I told one of their volunteers that I was looking for a clawed companion for my clawed one-year old, she looked horrified and actually said What about the furniture? A politely worded letter to the director telling them that they lost out on an adoption can have more impact than jumping into impassioned rhetoric and telling them they're in the dark ages. Beth On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Allowing mixed pet cats to stay together that have already been exposed is one thing altogether. Deliberately exposing already immune compromised fiv+ cats to felv+ is giving them a death sentence. While she (Not Sherry, the owner) collects donations for this and tells everyone, We do the best that we can. Question, as far as declawing, are the adopters even asked or is it just a given? Sounds like the dark ages. And besides, a cat that is fiv+ is stillvery adoptable, w/an education programset in place. A cat that is felv+ is much harder. A cat that is fiv+ and exposed to felv is just about impossible. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com http://www.petgirlspetsitting.com/ www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org http://www.tx.siameserescue.org/ www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - *From:* Beth Noren [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:16 AM *Subject:* Re: Here is the link Glenda, many of us here mix our vaccinated negatives with our positives. It is a calculated risk that takes into account quality of life, as is your decision to allow your cats outside. In my situation, with my neighborhood and my street-senseless cats, an outdoor kitty is a risk that I won't take. Your situation may be very different. I guess I am just trying to suggest that we ALL care deeply for our cats, and that we be gentler with each other when voicing our different opinions. It does the cats no good if all of us crazy cat ladies start attacking each other. Sherry has worked so hard, and takes each loss so personally, and for that I thank her. Best wishes, Beth, Blue, Moxie, Dash, Scooter. and Will Feral
Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...Crash Landing
On 9/24/07, janine paton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, but only a cat would have to choose between amputaion or death. I see no difference with this logic and killing cats who test positive. Catsinternational.org (also based in the midwest) has thankfully updated their page on declawing. They are calling for people to name declawing what it is - amputation. They guarantee 100% they can help you teach your cat not to scratch inappropriately. It's called education. I have to say when I went to that petfinder link, I felt like I was on another planet. Only a cat would have to choose between amputation and death. Only in America. Janine Hi Janine, I don't think you understood what I was trying to say, so perhaps I didn't say it well. For every rescue group that denies an adoption - due to plans to declaw, or for any other reason - a cat in a shelter somewhere will end up dying. At some point, this is ok. It just depends for each rescue group where that point is. For some rescue groups it is because the person plans to feed non premium food to the cat, for some it is because they only want one kitten and not two, for some it is because they plan to leave the cat alone during the day, for some it is because they plan to declaw the cat, and many reasons in between. Everyone has to draw the line in the sand and say this is the reason/reasons I will not adopt to a person (and the unspoken part of that is that this reason is important enough to me that I will allow other cats to die because of it.) It isn't that someone is going to kill cats if they aren't declawed. It is that if people want declawed cats, and rescue groups refuse to adopt them cats due to this, cats will die, and the person will go to a breeder/free kitten ad/what have you and the cycle continues. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
The person who is running the shelter is a veterinarian who is very well regarded in the rescue world. I guess that a veterinarian *could* be uninformed, but I find it hard to believe that someone who spent a great deal of her own time and money working to place homeless animals *would* be uninformed. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never said that you were evil. But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely uninformed..@ best. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... Please dont try to save mty feelings.Just don't read anymore of my posts and I will do the same!! We are not evil people Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: arrrggghhh.....! Part II.!
Hey Sherry, I think that she does say no (a lot) and that's a good thing...I know when I was trying to find a place for a FELV+ kitty from TX MaryChristine told me that Dr. Jen only takes FELV+ cats in from her own state and that there is a waiting list of 35 or 40 cats. On 9/24/07, Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We are not hoarders and I guess I made it sound like it when I said she can't say no. She does have to say enough is enough from time to time.Like right now,we can't take in anymore until we have more adoptions.Periodically we have to.We have a list to get cats into our program and it is a LONG one.So we are not hoarders at all.Just the space we have for the felv and fiv is what it is.We do not declaw the felv fiv cats.Wish we didn't the others,but that is not my decision.So I don't want anybody to be horrified at the wonderful shelters that I am proud to volunteer at.We are far from being hoarders,sorry if I made it sound like that.We have well over 100 volunteers to help out and we do a damn good job. If anyone of you visited anyone of our shelters you would see how HAPPY the beautiful creatures are.I am done defending!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The phrase comes to mind, The road to hell is paved with good intentions. :( I have no doubt whoever is running this shelter has the best of intentions. One of my girls, the one I think was the first positive, came from just such a shelter (Angel Wings in Kingston, TN). I know this lady had only the best of intentions in her heart, and I know she loved the kitties she tried to provide care for. But I also know she didn't know how to say No. And a lot of innocent kitties suffered as a result. It was a heartbreaking situation altogether :( Look, I have to know every day when to say No. My heart aches for some poor kitties I see at local shelters and adoption agencies, but I know I am not capable of caring for more than the three I have, and I know that to bring healthy, negative cats into a situation where they're at high risk of contracting FeLV is irresponsible. I've replaced my sofa twice now due to kitty claws (FINALLY got them all trained. It IS possible.) but I'd never dream of declawing, and I think most people are horrified here at the thought of a shelter using declawing as a standard policy. Its unimaginable. Even the lady I mentioned above gave me a very long lecture about declawing and made me sign contracts that I wouldn't do it. Siamese Rescue done the same thing when I adopted my other two. I think everyone here is horrified that, as you pointed out, she can't say no. We all must recognize our limits. I am not saying you, or the woman who runs this shelter, are bad people, but even the best of intentions can be devastating (as I know personally.) Hoarders love the cats they have, they just don't know when to say no. Same goes for this situation, I think. Our hearts just ache that as horrible as FIV and FeLV is, we have to live with the knowledge that this shelter is mixing them, and mutilating their little paws in the process. Its just painful. Its not personal attacks on you, or to say that you don't have the best of intentions in your heart. Reminds me of a story I heard on NPR on my way home, talking about zero gravity effects on bacteria. They were talking about infecting mice with salmonella to see how long it would take them to die. It was just painful to listen to. :( Michael See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
RE: Here is the link
Wow! A lot happened since I left work last night! I think Beth said it correctly, that we are all a bunch of crazy cat ladies (and a few men). I think that because our passions run so high for these kitties, that we are all the more passionate about these issues. I'm glad to see that people are sticking to the issues at hand and not attacking in personal ways, but I think this argument has come to the point that no one is going to budge, so it's kind of a stalemate, at an impasse. I feel very strongly about this issue as well (declawing), and I think that there is a middle ground here for all of us to agree on without compromising our views in any way. As Susan said, change is made by little steps. Those of the never declaw camp and those of the do what we can camp can both agree that change is necessary because neither way is a solution. So, instead of wasting all our energy on arguing (and it is exhausting), focus that energy toward education and awareness. Take the information from those websites (pawproject and the other one that someone posted), and use it to make literature to distribute. Talk to people off this list about how to train cats. I think many people are so devastatingly uninformed when it comes to the furniture issue. Although mine is scratched, it is not ugly or destroyed. It just takes education. The next time someone is shocked that your kitties are not declawed and says, What about the furniture?! tell him/her about the ways to prevent it. Even if that person doesn't have a cat, perhaps he/she knows someone with cats or who's thinking about getting a kitty. Maybe your information will influence someone down the road to request a kitty with claws or to pass on the info. We really need to put the information out there and let it work through people. We can all agree on that. Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Beth Noren Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:17 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Here is the link Glenda, many of us here mix our vaccinated negatives with our positives. It is a calculated risk that takes into account quality of life, as is your decision to allow your cats outside. In my situation, with my neighborhood and my street-senseless cats, an outdoor kitty is a risk that I won't take. Your situation may be very different. I guess I am just trying to suggest that we ALL care deeply for our cats, and that we be gentler with each other when voicing our different opinions. It does the cats no good if all of us crazy cat ladies start attacking each other. Sherry has worked so hard, and takes each loss so personally, and for that I thank her. Best wishes, Beth, Blue, Moxie, Dash, Scooter. and Will Feral On 9/24/07, glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sherry, ...Sherry I am trying to control my emotions ,but I have to tell you I am scared to death for these two groups of cats. I am believing/hoping your girl Mystique is vaccinated...that could help, but she is at terrible risk. Her immune system is already compromised by the FIV. I cannot implore you strongly enough to please get her out of Crash'slanding ASAP! You have been lucky with your FIV kitties and especially with your kitty who threw the FIV. When I read about the beautiful Mystique, I felt relieved that she was only FIV+. I felt you would have good luck with her and she might live a pretty normal life. The fact she is in a situation where she can contract the FeLV virus any day now, is making me a little crazy...I worry about her and everyone else in that environment...and what about the kitties that might possibly be able one day, to throw one of the viruses or the other? What chance do any of them really have...They are at huge risk of getting THE OTHER virus. There has to be a way to seperate the two groups. FIV+ kitties have such a better chance , but here they are almost certainly, over time going to become FeLV+ too. You need to get Mystique out of there. You should have her tested for both FIV and FeLV, just so you know, what you will be dealing with. Then have her tested again in 4-6 months. If she is FeLV- you are both blessed. If I were you, I'd want to know, for myself, if she is really FIV+. Crash'slanding comes across beautifully on it's intro page and it is set up well to navigate through. The kitties are beautiful. Their stories are well written and touching. This is a nokill shelter, right? The way it appears to me, is a showplace type of place, that collects cats, donations ,but seriously needs to become a bit more cat- friendly...Besides taking in these cats, are they really doing what is best for each cat? If they cannot seperate the FIV+ cats from the FeLV+ cats they should only be dealing with cats with one disease or the other disease and let another shelter deal with the other... Do they get a lot of volunteers as sweet as you? Well, they are lucky if they do. Nobody is
Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
Well, I know several people /groups that are well regarded in the rescue world, and they have LOTS of dirty laundry,to say the least, @ best. And the only thing that keeps me from getting involved in their mess is the fact that cats would confiscated die. I am working on about 3 separate incidences right now, as I speak. I don't support hack rescue work nor hack vets. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... The person who is running the shelter is a veterinarian who is very well regarded in the rescue world. I guess that a veterinarian *could* be uninformed, but I find it hard to believe that someone who spent a great deal of her own time and money working to place homeless animals *would* be uninformed. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never said that you were evil. But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely uninformed..@ best. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... Please dont try to save mty feelings.Just don't read anymore of my posts and I will do the same!! We are not evil people Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: Here is the link
Sorry, the hellholecomment was not meant to go to the list. My mistake (yes,even I make them). However, I standby my opinion. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Beth Noren To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:16 AM Subject: Re: Here is the link But the FIV cats have not been given a death sentence, they have been vaccinated for a much reduced risk of a catching FeLV. They are weighing that risk against the risk of death on the streets or in a kill shelter. If anyone believes that that risk is not justified they can say so in a much nicer way than calling the place a hell hole and attacking poor Sherry. From my experience, I do believe that some rescues are too set on the idea that declaws are neccesary to attract adopters. Our local rescue declaws every kitten it can before offering it for adoption. When I told one of their volunteers that I was looking for a clawed companion for my clawed one-year old, she looked horrified and actually said What about the furniture? A politely worded letter to the director telling them that they lost out on an adoption can have more impact than jumping into impassioned rhetoric and telling them they're in the dark ages. Beth
Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
I absolutely think it is important we all decide who to support, according to our values:) On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I know several people /groups that are well regarded in the rescue world, and they have LOTS of dirty laundry,to say the least, @ best. And the only thing that keeps me from getting involved in their mess is the fact that cats would confiscated die. I am working on about 3 separate incidences right now, as I speak. I don't support hack rescue work nor hack vets. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... The person who is running the shelter is a veterinarian who is very well regarded in the rescue world. I guess that a veterinarian *could* be uninformed, but I find it hard to believe that someone who spent a great deal of her own time and money working to place homeless animals *would* be uninformed. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never said that you were evil. But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely uninformed..@ best. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... Please dont try to save mty feelings.Just don't read anymore of my posts and I will do the same!! We are not evil people Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
From the website: http://www.crashslanding.org/ Welcome to CRASH'S LANDING! We are a NON-PROFIT, no-kill Cat Rescue Placement Center located in Grand Rapids, Michigan. As we are owned and operated by a veterinarian, Dr. Jennifer Petrovich, DVM, all cats in our custody are tested for FIV, vaccinated for Rabies, Feline Distemper, Calicivirus, Rhinotracheitis and Feline Leukemia. All will be spayed or neutered. Each one is dewormed and flea- treated as well. We are staffed by diligent, hard-working, cat-loving, non-paid volunteers who do this simply because they love our feline friends. Without their tireless efforts and donations from our supporters, CRASH'S LANDING would not exist! On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If that's true, I want the vet's name. I will find EXACTLY how well regarded they are. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... The person who is running the shelter is a veterinarian who is very well regarded in the rescue world. I guess that a veterinarian *could* be uninformed, but I find it hard to believe that someone who spent a great deal of her own time and money working to place homeless animals *would* be uninformed. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never said that you were evil. But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely uninformed..@ best. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: Here is the link
I'm really jealous of her facility: http://www.crashslanding.org/Pages/crash_cheese.html On 9/25/07, Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't want to get into the all or nothing conversation but I do want to mention that throws, especially loosely knit ones, put in strategic places saves lots of upholstered corners. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Beth Noren To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:16 AM Subject: Re: Here is the link But the FIV cats have not been given a death sentence, they have been vaccinated for a much reduced risk of a catching FeLV. They are weighing that risk against the risk of death on the streets or in a kill shelter. If anyone believes that that risk is not justified they can say so in a much nicer way than calling the place a hell hole and attacking poor Sherry. From my experience, I do believe that some rescues are too set on the idea that declaws are neccesary to attract adopters. Our local rescue declaws every kitten it can before offering it for adoption. When I told one of their volunteers that I was looking for a clawed companion for my clawed one-year old, she looked horrified and actually said What about the furniture? A politely worded letter to the director telling them that they lost out on an adoption can have more impact than jumping into impassioned rhetoric and telling them they're in the dark ages. Beth On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Allowing mixed pet cats to stay together that have already been exposed is one thing altogether. Deliberately exposing already immune compromised fiv+ cats to felv+ is giving them a death sentence. While she (Not Sherry, the owner) collects donations for this and tells everyone, We do the best that we can. Question, as far as declawing, are the adopters even asked or is it just a given? Sounds like the dark ages. And besides, a cat that is fiv+ is stillvery adoptable, w/an education programset in place. A cat that is felv+ is much harder. A cat that is fiv+ and exposed to felv is just about impossible. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Beth Noren To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:16 AM Subject: Re: Here is the link Glenda, many of us here mix our vaccinated negatives with our positives. It is a calculated risk that takes into account quality of life, as is your decision to allow your cats outside. In my situation, with my neighborhood and my street-senseless cats, an outdoor kitty is a risk that I won't take. Your situation may be very different. I guess I am just trying to suggest that we ALL care deeply for our cats, and that we be gentler with each other when voicing our different opinions. It does the cats no good if all of us crazy cat ladies start attacking each other. Sherry has worked so hard, and takes each loss so personally, and for that I thank her. Best wishes, Beth, Blue, Moxie, Dash, Scooter. and Will Feral -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough...
EXACTLY, KEL, WHICH IS WHY SO MANY OF US WHO REALLY KNOW ABOUT FELV AND FIV HAVE LEFT THIS LIST AND RECONVENED ELSEWHERE--WHERE VALUES AND GOOD INFORMATION AND LOVING SUPPORT ARE THE VALUES. On 9/25/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I absolutely think it is important we all decide who to support, according to our values:) On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I know several people /groups that are well regarded in the rescue world, and they have LOTS of dirty laundry,to say the least, @ best. And the only thing that keeps me from getting involved in their mess is the fact that cats would confiscated die. I am working on about 3 separate incidences right now, as I speak. I don't support hack rescue work nor hack vets. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... The person who is running the shelter is a veterinarian who is very well regarded in the rescue world. I guess that a veterinarian *could* be uninformed, but I find it hard to believe that someone who spent a great deal of her own time and money working to place homeless animals *would* be uninformed. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never said that you were evil. But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely uninformed..@ best. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... Please dont try to save mty feelings.Just don't read anymore of my posts and I will do the same!! We are not evil people Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: arrrggghhh.....! Part II.!
you haven't a CLUE what you're talking about, AS USUAL. you're down in texas, and sherry and i are up here in michigan. i lived for two years at an FIV/FeLV sanctuary about an hour and a half from crash's landing, and neither place has ANYTHING in common with the HOARDER situations you are quoting. for anyone, on a LIST, to make such assumptions is absurd. where were you, susan, when it came time to rehome the felvs and fivs from angel wings? i know the people who did it. if you read the crash's pages, you'll know where the name came from, and if you ask reputable rescues AND ANIMAL CONTROL AGENCIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, you'll know that doc jen and crash's has a great reputation, in a field where people love to trash one another. just like you are doing right now--telling sherry that she's clearly too stupid to realize she shouldn't be working there. this is why GOOD people leave rescue, because of all the crap from people who just want to make trouble. MC On 9/24/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do the words FLOCK, AngelWings, Wild Cat Ranch or ARC (in Dallas) ring ANY bells w/anyone? You cannot run a shelter and mix diseases. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - *From:* Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2007 7:21 PM *Subject:* Re: arrrggghhh.! Part II.! Well Susan that is just RUDE of you!!! So you think just because everyone does NOT agree with you that it is the wrong way!! The HELLHOLE here is your closed mind!! Now I see why some very good people have left this felv talk.It is because of rudeness like yours!!! *Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: This sheltermixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to separate..! Read below. What kind of hellhole is this? It's called crash landing PLease do not forward.. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com http://www.petgirlspetsitting.com/ www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org http://www.tx.siameserescue.org/ www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - *From:* Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2007 6:22 PM *Subject:* Re: Here is the link Sorry, but it is irresponsible to deliberately expose cats w/already compromised immune systems from one deadly disease to another deadly disease.. That is just bad news. And no, you cannot save them all. And if you try, well, that's another can of worms. I am entitled to my opinion, and so are you. However, I have had to play cleanup on too many well intented sanctuaries and /or rescue people, so, I've just about seen it all. Not to mention that this is just how I got my felv+/fiv+ cats in the first place. From rescue people that were in over their heads, mixing various dieases due to an imperfect world. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com http://www.petgirlspetsitting.com/ www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org http://www.tx.siameserescue.org/ www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - *From:* Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Monday, September 24, 2007 5:18 PM *Subject:* Re: Here is the link Well I guess it is either that or just them die without a chance to live at all.You can only do so much with what you can. So I guess now you think this is a horrible place?? This place gives them ALL a second chance to have any kind of life at all !! Believe me I'm sure in a PERFECT world this would be different. If you knew everything the lady that runs both sanctuaries does for these wonderful beings,how many times she fought for thier lives(including the fiv felv)she brought them home to her house to nurse them back to health.We do the best we can. *Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: WHAT? This shelter does not
Re: arrrggghhh.....! Part II.!
I guess the fact that I helped people intake and house (myself too) cats from ARC, FLOCK Wild Cat Ranch counts for nothing in this conversation. And yes, my group took cats from AngelWings also. Not many, but what we could @ the time. And no one said that Sherry was stupid for wanting to help the cats, I personally said that the vet in charge must be uninformed (at best). Sounds like the same vet worship that I was accused of when I first signed onto this list. hey, at least MY vet doesn't mix two extremely different contagious potentially deadly diseases nor does he declaw cats. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: MaryChristine To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:05 PM Subject: Re: arrrggghhh.! Part II.! you haven't a CLUE what you're talking about, AS USUAL. you're down in texas, and sherry and i are up here in michigan. i lived for two years at an FIV/FeLV sanctuary about an hour and a half from crash's landing, and neither place has ANYTHING in common with the HOARDER situations you are quoting. for anyone, on a LIST, to make such assumptions is absurd. where were you, susan, when it came time to rehome the felvs and fivs from angel wings? i know the people who did it. if you read the crash's pages, you'll know where the name came from, and if you ask reputable rescues AND ANIMAL CONTROL AGENCIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, you'll know that doc jen and crash's has a great reputation, in a field where people love to trash one another. just like you are doing right now--telling sherry that she's clearly too stupid to realize she shouldn't be working there. this is why GOOD people leave rescue, because of all the crap from people who just want to make trouble. MC On 9/24/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do the words FLOCK, AngelWings, Wild Cat Ranch or ARC (in Dallas) ring ANY bells w/anyone? You cannot run a shelter and mix diseases. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent
OT: Kitten Question
I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She mingles with the kittens now during play-time and she is not having any diarrhea. Does anyone have any thoughts about a possible cause of diarrhea and what I can do about it? I'd appreciate some help! I haven't had kittens since I was 10, so I just don't know much about them... -Caroline _ Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. It’s our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_WLHMTxt_2
Re: OT: Kitten Question
It could be coccidia or giardia. Both are very common in kittens. Coccidia is treated with albon, giardia with flagyl. It could be worms, but I'm thinking you wormed them already. On 9/25/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She mingles with the kittens now during play-time and she is not having any diarrhea. Does anyone have any thoughts about a possible cause of diarrhea and what I can do about it? I'd appreciate some help! I haven't had kittens since I was 10, so I just don't know much about them... -Caroline Gear up for Halo(r) 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It's our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. Get it now! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: OT: Kitten Question
Hi Caroline, They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi. It tends to wipe out the good gut bacteria with the baddies. Try adding some probiotics to their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help rebuild the good gut bacteria. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote: Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400 From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Kitten Question I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She mingles with the kittens now during play-time and she is not having any diarrhea. Does anyone have any thoughts about a possible cause of diarrhea and what I can do about it? I'd appreciate some help! I haven't had kittens since I was 10, so I just don't know much about them... -Caroline _ Gear up for Halo? 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. It?s our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live?. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_WLHMTxt_2
RE: Kitten Question
Hi Caroline, I was thinking about you and the kitties. I'm glad to have a new topic to discuss-thanks! Anyway, I gather from your post that they didn't have diarrhea before or soft stools right? I know my vet told me the antibiotics can cause diarrhea. We had Ashley on Clavomox because of her cow-pie stools, but even after she was finished with the Clavomox, it took 2 weeks for the stools to harden. She still has a touch of the soft stools and some stinky gas now and then, but the smell isn't unbearable as it was before. Our house no longer smells like a giant litter box. This may sound gross, but how's the smell? With Ashley it was nauseating-it could seriously bring you to your knees. It turned out to be persistent parasites or bacteria or something like that which hadn't gotten cleared up from the first trips to the vet's. She was a kitty eating out of a dumpster, and I think the vet figured that because of the damage done, it was taking longer to rehabilitate her. However, she came to me with diarrhea; she didn't develop it. And it took several months to get better (after much distress on my part). But, like I said, the vet said the antibiotics can cause diarrhea. Maybe it just takes a while to get out of your kitties' systems. I think it's great that you load up on the vitamins and supplements, but you make me feel like a negligent mommy! Oh, we also switched Ashley to some blander food for a while. I think it was Science Diet ID or something like that. But, I think you're light years ahead of me on the nutritional side of things anyway. I hope you find homes for your babies really soon. You should post some pictures of them for us! We could all use a little cheering up and a reminder that the kitties, not our egos, are the most important things here. Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:55 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Kitten Question I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She
RE: OT: Kitten Question
I am not sure about their worming schedule at this point- I took them in from another volunteer/rescuer b/c she was overloaded and they weren't getting proper care, so she has their records. All were given Advantage before they came to me. I'm pretty sure they got a deworming tho, b/c I know they give dewormer to kittens even smaller than these and I doubt the other volunteer would have had them in her house with her other cats w/o first deworming. Plus, I look for worms all the time and have never seen any. Do I need to take them to a vet? Thanks, Caroline Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:05:35 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question It could be coccidia or giardia. Both are very common in kittens. Coccidia is treated with albon, giardia with flagyl. It could be worms, but I'm thinking you wormed them already. On 9/25/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She mingles with the kittens now during play-time and she is not having any diarrhea. Does anyone have any thoughts about a possible cause of diarrhea and what I can do about it? I'd appreciate some help! I haven't had kittens since I was 10, so I just don't know much about them... -Caroline Gear up for Halo(r) 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It's our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live™. Get it now! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! _ Gear up for Halo® 3 with
RE: OT: Kitten Question
Caroline, In my previous post, I mentioned how it took Ashley two weeks to get better after the antibiotics had made it through. We had an appointment at the vet scheduled for 2 weeks after finishing the medicine (to take stool samples), but it turned out that she didn't need to go in since she was better. If it were me with the high vet bills that I usually have, I'd wait another week since they just finished their antibiotics. But, I'm not a vet or an expert. As long as they are eating and drinking, I think that they'd be okay. But, please don't chastise me anyone if this is bad advice-just set me straight! Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:15 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT: Kitten Question I am not sure about their worming schedule at this point- I took them in from another volunteer/rescuer b/c she was overloaded and they weren't getting proper care, so she has their records. All were given Advantage before they came to me. I'm pretty sure they got a deworming tho, b/c I know they give dewormer to kittens even smaller than these and I doubt the other volunteer would have had them in her house with her other cats w/o first deworming. Plus, I look for worms all the time and have never seen any. Do I need to take them to a vet? Thanks, Caroline Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:05:35 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question It could be coccidia or giardia. Both are very common in kittens. Coccidia is treated with albon, giardia with flagyl. It could be worms, but I'm thinking you wormed them already. On 9/25/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She mingles with the kittens now during play-time and she is not having any diarrhea. Does anyone have any thoughts about a possible cause of diarrhea and what I can do
RE: Kitten Question
Thanks Melissa. I don't have a digital camera- other than a webcam. Have to borrow my mom's and she has come over to take a few pictures of them, so once she gets them loaded, I will post those. These kittens are hilarious...I think it's the group dynamic. One one one with me, away from the others, they are darlings. When out for playtime, they are Satan's Minions! Yoda is seriously the cutest thing I've seen in a long time (second only to the Monkee!) and he has this strut! He struts when he first gets let out of his cage...hilarious! They did not have diarrhea when I first got them, and I think Yoda was the only one who had some initial diarrhea when I started his amoxy. But then it tapered off and I was treating them with Amoxy twice a day and stools were normal...stinky kitten poo, but otherwise normal. Now, Yoda's diarrhea and the cow pies (that's a good description for the stools somewhat in between the two extremes)-- those smell pretty bad. I have noted the smell has gotten worse with the softer stools. About the supplements, this past Sat. was the first Sat. I took them to cat adoption day and put them on display and my mom came to check them out. Bragging a little, she said my fosters look better than the other fosters and there's no comparison! She said they look like they are getting vitamins and they behaved so well...they loved their outing! Their skin and coats look crazy-good! But I told my mom, well, they better look good, I'm feeding them cans of food that costs like $80 cents for a teeny can! They are so much better off than they were in their previous home, so everytime I get worn down and worn out, I remember this. I wish to god that once again, I took before pix, so you all could see the after pix and be as shocked and amazed as me. But my mom is always so hesitant to condone the taking of before pix b/c she always thinks that when they come to me in such bad shape, that they will die. She thought Yoda would die over Labor Day weekend. I guess she views that taking of the before pic as macabre or something. Then, when they survive and come out looking awesome, we kick ourselves for not taking a before pic. Urgh. -Caroline From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: Kitten QuestionDate: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:10:09 -0500 Hi Caroline, I was thinking about you and the kitties. I’m glad to have a new topic to discuss—thanks! Anyway, I gather from your post that they didn’t have diarrhea before or soft stools right? I know my vet told me the antibiotics can cause diarrhea. We had Ashley on Clavomox because of her cow-pie stools, but even after she was finished with the Clavomox, it took 2 weeks for the stools to harden. She still has a touch of the soft stools and some stinky gas now and then, but the smell isn’t unbearable as it was before. Our house no longer smells like a giant litter box. This may sound gross, but how’s the smell? With Ashley it was nauseating—it could seriously bring you to your knees. It turned out to be persistent parasites or bacteria or something like that which hadn’t gotten cleared up from the first trips to the vet’s. She was a kitty eating out of a dumpster, and I think the vet figured that because of the damage done, it was taking longer to rehabilitate her. However, she came to me with diarrhea; she didn’t develop it. And it took several months to get better (after much distress on my part). But, like I said, the vet said the antibiotics can cause diarrhea. Maybe it just takes a while to get out of your kitties’ systems. I think it’s great that you load up on the vitamins and supplements, but you make me feel like a negligent mommy! Oh, we also switched Ashley to some blander food for a while. I think it was Science Diet ID or something like that. But, I think you’re light years ahead of me on the nutritional side of things anyway. I hope you find homes for your babies really soon. You should post some pictures of them for us! We could all use a little cheering up and a reminder that the kitties, not our egos, are the most important things here. Melissa From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline KaufmannSent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:55 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OT: Kitten Question I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the
RE: Kitten Question
Oh the smell of kitten poo! What a good idea about the before pictures. We just got Penelope 2 weeks ago, and already she's changed and grown so much! I can't believe the progress! She was so bony and her hips and spine were sticking out so badly that I thought it would take longer to get healthy. She was also so scared of me and my husband. Now she's my shadow and the loudest purrer and the best snuggler. She's even starting to try to wrestle with our Smokey. So cute! Wish I would have the before photos. Okay, enough of my little baby. As for your poo issues, maybe you could take samples of the cow pie-type and Yoda's to the vet's for testing. At least you wouldn't have to pay for a visit. I think Ashley's scheduled poo test was going to be around $100, but that was because they were going to send it to a lab. If you took it to the office, they could just look under a scope for parasites, etc. That's what I'd do, and since you've got them fairly isolated, you'll be able to see whose poo is whose. :-) Talk about Satan's Minions! I just have to tell about our Smokey (1 year) who gets so excited during piano lessons. I teach them 3 nights a week, and every time she has to prove her gymnastic skills by vaulting from the couch to the table to the very top of the screen door, hang there until I scold her or reach for the Febreeze (don't worry, I don't get the Febreeze on her), then she sprints around the room, munches on our house plant/tree, and eventually runs downstairs since she knows by now she's in big trouble. Oh those naughty kitties! I'm so happy that we've got a few young ones to keep us on our toes! Keep us informed on how it goes with you and the babies. Melissa _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:31 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Kitten Question Thanks Melissa. I don't have a digital camera- other than a webcam. Have to borrow my mom's and she has come over to take a few pictures of them, so once she gets them loaded, I will post those. These kittens are hilarious...I think it's the group dynamic. One one one with me, away from the others, they are darlings. When out for playtime, they are Satan's Minions! Yoda is seriously the cutest thing I've seen in a long time (second only to the Monkee!) and he has this strut! He struts when he first gets let out of his cage...hilarious! They did not have diarrhea when I first got them, and I think Yoda was the only one who had some initial diarrhea when I started his amoxy. But then it tapered off and I was treating them with Amoxy twice a day and stools were normal...stinky kitten poo, but otherwise normal. Now, Yoda's diarrhea and the cow pies (that's a good description for the stools somewhat in between the two extremes)-- those smell pretty bad. I have noted the smell has gotten worse with the softer stools. About the supplements, this past Sat. was the first Sat. I took them to cat adoption day and put them on display and my mom came to check them out. Bragging a little, she said my fosters look better than the other fosters and there's no comparison! She said they look like they are getting vitamins and they behaved so well...they loved their outing! Their skin and coats look crazy-good! But I told my mom, well, they better look good, I'm feeding them cans of food that costs like $80 cents for a teeny can! They are so much better off than they were in their previous home, so everytime I get worn down and worn out, I remember this. I wish to god that once again, I took before pix, so you all could see the after pix and be as shocked and amazed as me. But my mom is always so hesitant to condone the taking of before pix b/c she always thinks that when they come to me in such bad shape, that they will die. She thought Yoda would die over Labor Day weekend. I guess she views that taking of the before pic as macabre or something. Then, when they survive and come out looking awesome, we kick ourselves for not taking a before pic. Urgh. -Caroline _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Kitten Question Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:10:09 -0500 Hi Caroline, I was thinking about you and the kitties. I'm glad to have a new topic to discuss-thanks! Anyway, I gather from your post that they didn't have diarrhea before or soft stools right? I know my vet told me the antibiotics can cause diarrhea. We had Ashley on Clavomox because of her cow-pie stools, but even after she was finished with the Clavomox, it took 2 weeks for the stools to harden. She still has a touch of the soft stools and some stinky gas now and then, but the smell isn't unbearable as it was before. Our house no longer smells like a giant litter box. This may sound gross, but how's the smell? With Ashley it was nauseating-it could seriously bring you to your knees. It turned out
Re: OT: Kitten Question
Hi Caroline, Have the little kittens had a fecal yet? If not, I recommend getting one performed. Coccidia, Giardia spirokettes(?) are all possibilities. Sometimes when you first get kittens, they can have normal poops,even w/one of the above problems or all of them,however, the diarrhea can start days even weeks later. Coccidia would need Albon,make sure that the doasge is correct for their weight due to it being a sulfur based drug and it can cause liver problems. However, the first dosage will need to be *double* ,if that makes sense. Ask your vet for some Hills' moist w/d to help w/ the diarrhea, which will help form stools plus they still will get *some* the necessary moisture that they need. You also might want togive them a bit of Pedialyte,this will give them the necessary electrolytes that they are losing. Kittens can crash very easily due to dehydration. Let me knowif you have any questions, goodl luck! signed, Susan in Texas that doesn't know what she is talking about,as usual... :) Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question Hi Caroline, They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi. It tends to wipe out the good gut bacteria with the baddies. Try adding some probiotics to their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help rebuild the good gut bacteria. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote: Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400 From: Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Kitten Question I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a
Re: OT: Kitten Question
They will need @ least 2 dewormings, 2 weeks apart. The only worm that you *normally* see is tapes,so,they could still have worms if the eggs have hatched since the last deworming. I would take them in for fecal, just to be safe. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:14 PM Subject: RE: OT: Kitten Question I am not sure about their worming schedule at this point- I took them in from another volunteer/rescuer b/c she was overloaded and they weren't getting proper care, so she has their records. All were given Advantage before they came to me. I'm pretty sure they got a deworming tho, b/c I know they give dewormer to kittens even smaller than these and I doubt the other volunteer would have had them in her house with her other cats w/o first deworming. Plus, I look for worms all the time and have never seen any. Do I need to take them to a vet? Thanks, Caroline Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:05:35 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question It could be coccidia or giardia. Both are very common in kittens. Coccidia is treated with albon, giardia with flagyl. It could be worms, but I'm thinking you wormed them already. On 9/25/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She mingles with the kittens now during
Re: Kitten Question
Bad diarrhea smellis usually a sign of coccidia. P.U.! Satan's Minions,how funny! I have a cat named Minion. She's mommy's Little Minion AKAS Bay-Bay. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Caroline Kaufmann To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: RE: Kitten Question Thanks Melissa. I don't have a digital camera- other than a webcam. Have to borrow my mom's and she has come over to take a few pictures of them, so once she gets them loaded, I will post those. These kittens are hilarious...I think it's the group dynamic. One one one with me, away from the others, they are darlings. When out for playtime, they are Satan's Minions! Yoda is seriously the cutest thing I've seen in a long time (second only to the Monkee!) and he has this strut! He struts when he first gets let out of his cage...hilarious!
Re: Lovey is gone
Janine, I'm very sorry to hear that Lovey and Perry had to leave you. Bless you for caring for them. :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: Brenda Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 11:51:52 AM Subject: Lovey is gone Hello All, Thank you for your help the other day. Lovey was in liver and kidney failure. His liver was 10 times smaller than normal and my vet and I both feel it was genetic. He was suffering so I didn't hesitate in letting him go. He was a beautiful, wonderful, friend with a personality like no other cat I have ever met. I will miss him for a long time. It was a tough week, I lost my mom's cat Perry last thursday. He started failing and he went really fast. We don't know what was wrong with him, but the vet was 100% sure there were multiple problems. Perry was a very loving sweet boy, he is also missed. So, that was two friends gone in one week. They were both feline leukemia positive. Belinda, could you add them to the list. Thank you, Janine Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Re: Another one gone
Tracy, I'm so sorry to hear about Sylvester and CW. Prayers going out for your comfort. :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: Tracy Weese [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 12:19:49 PM Subject: Another one gone I lost two of my FeLV+ cats in the last month, the most recent was today when I put CW down. She was beginning to have difficulty breathing due to severe anemia. I tried a transfusion (only raised the RBC from 6% to 10%) and Epogen, but today my vet and I could see that she was becoming more and more uncomfortable and she was extremely pale, I swore that I would not wait until it was too late, I'd rather be a day or so too early. We had a nice three weeks, but today, I could tell the light had gone out in her eyes. Just last month Sylvester died at home and a few months before that, another FeLV+ cat, Herbie, had to be PTS. Funny, I have a negative cat (that is 12) with stomach cancer and have been treating him for more than 18 months (he probably had it at least a year before). He has not gone into remission, and we have done EVERY chemo protocol out there, but it has stopped growing and he is like the energizer bunny ... he keeps going and going and going. I really expected him to go long before the other three regardless, I miss them all. Tracy Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html
new list
I think those of you who have reconvened on another list are needed here to educate those who don't know as much as you do. tonya MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: EXACTLY, KEL, WHICH IS WHY SO MANY OF US WHO REALLY KNOW ABOUT FELV AND FIV HAVE LEFT THIS LIST AND RECONVENED ELSEWHERE--WHERE VALUES AND GOOD INFORMATION AND LOVING SUPPORT ARE THE VALUES. On 9/25/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I absolutely think it is important we all decide who to support, according to our values:) On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I know several people /groups that are well regarded in the rescue world, and they have LOTS of dirty laundry,to say the least, @ best. And the only thing that keeps me from getting involved in their mess is the fact that cats would confiscated die. I am working on about 3 separate incidences right now, as I speak. I don't support hack rescue work nor hack vets. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:42 AM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... The person who is running the shelter is a veterinarian who is very well regarded in the rescue world. I guess that a veterinarian *could* be uninformed, but I find it hard to believe that someone who spent a great deal of her own time and money working to place homeless animals *would* be uninformed. On 9/25/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never said that you were evil. But I think who ever is running this shelter is severely uninformed..@ best. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: ...emotionally charged issues...are rough... Please dont try to save mty feelings.Just don't read anymore of my posts and I will do the same!! We are not evil people Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...
Thank you Kelley. All issues are not black and white. t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/23/07, glenda Goodman wrote: Oh well, we are just talking about cats here, so whatever we need to do to them, so they can please us humans, is all that really matters, right? Glenda No, but there are a lot of issues associated with declawing that don't typically get discussed. I think this type of law is, like spay/neuter laws, well-intentioned, but ill-advised. Currently 25% of cat owners declaw their cats in the U.S. We also have millions of cats dying in shelters. If you make declawing illegal, the majority of those people are likely going to stop owning cats. So that's fully 1/4 less homes that would be available. Now, whether or not this is bad depends upon whether or not you believe that cats are better off dead or declawed. Nathan Winograd says that given the choice, a cat would beg you to declaw him rather than kill him. There are people who think that cats are better off dead than declawed, and though I disagree I think we are all entitled to our own opinions. I would not support a law that led to 25% fewer cat homes with the population as it is today. Now, if the day ever came when people were lined up begging to be allowed to adopt a cat because there were so few of them and so many homes that wanted them, I would probably be in favor of such a law. My vet will declaw a cat because he believes it is better to have the cat declawed than to have it set loose outside. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help George! http://rescuties.chipin.com/george I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: arrrggghhh.....! Part II.!
Maybe it could be said in a nicer way... but it needs to be said. If you go to another list who will clarify these things? t MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you haven't a CLUE what you're talking about, AS USUAL. you're down in texas, and sherry and i are up here in michigan. i lived for two years at an FIV/FeLV sanctuary about an hour and a half from crash's landing, and neither place has ANYTHING in common with the HOARDER situations you are quoting. for anyone, on a LIST, to make such assumptions is absurd. where were you, susan, when it came time to rehome the felvs and fivs from angel wings? i know the people who did it. if you read the crash's pages, you'll know where the name came from, and if you ask reputable rescues AND ANIMAL CONTROL AGENCIES IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, you'll know that doc jen and crash's has a great reputation, in a field where people love to trash one another. just like you are doing right now--telling sherry that she's clearly too stupid to realize she shouldn't be working there. this is why GOOD people leave rescue, because of all the crap from people who just want to make trouble. MC On 9/24/07, Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do the words FLOCK, AngelWings, Wild Cat Ranch or ARC (in Dallas) ring ANY bells w/anyone? You cannot run a shelter and mix diseases. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: arrrggghhh.! Part II.! Well Susan that is just RUDE of you!!! So you think just because everyone does NOT agree with you that it is the wrong way!! The HELLHOLE here is your closed mind!! Now I see why some very good people have left this felv talk.It is because of rudeness like yours!!! Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sheltermixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to separate..! Read below. What kind of hellhole is this? It's called crash landing PLease do not forward.. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Susan Dubose To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: Here is the link Sorry, but it is irresponsible to deliberately expose cats w/already compromised immune systems from one deadly disease to another deadly disease.. That is just bad news. And no, you cannot save them all. And if you try, well, that's another can of worms. I am entitled to my opinion, and so are you. However, I have had to play cleanup on too many well intented sanctuaries and /or rescue people, so, I've just about seen it all. Not to mention that this is just how I got my felv+/fiv+ cats in the first place. From rescue people that were in over their heads, mixing various dieases due to an imperfect world. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Here is the link Well I guess it is either that or just them die without a chance to live at all.You can only do so much with what you can. So I guess now you think this is a horrible place?? This place gives them ALL a second chance to have any kind of life at all !! Believe me I'm sure in a PERFECT world this would be different. If you knew everything the lady that runs both sanctuaries does for these wonderful beings,how many times she fought for thier lives(including the fiv felv)she brought them home to her house to nurse them back to health.We
Re: OT: Kitten Question
I think the antibiotics could still be causing some problems in the system
causing diarrhea. I have a cat who's still having problems and has been off
the antibiotics for 2 weeks. Also, you might try mixing some canned pumpkin
(not pumpkin pie) to the wet food. Pumpkin seems to help with diarrhea as well
as constipation. Don't ask me why!
t
Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }I am down to three foster kittens
now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply
store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too
much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other
ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures!
Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I
don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them.
They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten.
Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same
in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food,
they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I
am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking
water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they
go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen
every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that
problem).
On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's
yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but
add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an
order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I
get it.
I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if
they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The
smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't
been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little
eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that
I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for
adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him
since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster.
So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting
noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy!
My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I
let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well
now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally
did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that
causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not
actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with
him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first
foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a
kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of
supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am
and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She mingles with the
kittens now during play-time and she is not having any diarrhea.
Does anyone have any thoughts about a possible cause of diarrhea and what I can
do about it?
I'd appreciate some help! I haven't had kittens since I was 10, so I just
don't know much about them...
-Caroline
-
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Re: Autumn - Rough Time
You might call around and look for an internist or homeopathic vet that is willing to treat leukemia positives, and be positive about the outcome. How old is Autumn? It sounds like she might need to be getting fluids. I'm sure others can offer more suggestions. Best of luck for little Autumn. tonya Susan Ang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow it's been a rough time for little Autumn. We just came back from our second vet visit in two and a half weeks. The first time Autumn was slightly lethargic with fever and swollen glands so they put her on Amoxicillan. She responded quickly and perked right up. However, this week she lapsed into sleeping all the time and retreating into dark places away from people. Friday she wasn't playing but she was still eating - though not as much. Saturday we bought her some Innova Evo soft food which she gobbled down. Yesterday scared me though. She quit eating except for treats and her eyes looked glassy. She was also vomiting yellow bile. I worried about her hydration so I used her antibiotic syringe to make her take water. That seemed to help. Today she wouldn't even eat her treats. We took her in this morning and the vet gave her Nutri-Cal - she ate it. He also recommended Pedialyte (unflavored). He was very concerned for her having these kind of symptoms so young. I asked him about Interferon-A. This is the second vet we've talked to that doesn't treat with it. I dosed her with the antibiotic as soon as I got her home and I also gave her more Nutri-cal. She slept again for about an hour and a half then she got up to come see me and threw up again. This time I gave her the Pedialyte and more Nutri-cal. She looks better and she did a little exploring. She didn't retreat to the other room or her carrier but stayed on the couch. They gave us some prescription food for sick kitties and I wonder if I should start her on it right away or let her tummy settle a bit first? Emotionally this has been hard. I kept crying every time I thought about life without her. She brought so much joy to our lives and we love her dearly. Today I'm doing better because I can actually be Pro-active with the Pedialyte, NutriCal and antibiotics. I would give anything to have her playing with her toys again. How do you find a vet who treats with Interferon? ~ Susan A.
Re: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...
I agree, but Sherry's vet does so much good for the cats. You have to pick
your battles. I'm sure Sherry has discussed declawing with Dr. Jen. I'm sure
the doctor knows about the downside/problems associated with declawing. She
has made a decision to declaw. It's her sanctuary. It's her decision. And
they've done a lot of good.
I'm of the opinion 'better off dead than declawed'. But most people are not.
And many people think declawing saves lives.
I hope that changes and declawing becomes illegal in the U.S. as it is in
other countries, but for now it is not illegal.
t
Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
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Excellent, Melissa!
They take them until they figure out that the cat now bites when it feels the
least bit threatened or it pees poops everywhere EXCEPT the litterbox due to
the pain in it's paws from being multilated.
Those were ALWAYS the reasons people would try dump them@ the shelter that
I worked @.
Susan J. DuBose ^..^
www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com
www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org
www.shadowcats.net
As Cleopatra lay in state,
Faithful Bast at her side did wait,
Purring welcomes of soft applause,
Ever guarding with sharpened claws.
Trajan Tennent
- Original Message -
From: Melissa Lind
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: OT:declawing your cat is illegal...
I think that this website has some very interesting statistics. Check it
out: http://www.pawproject.com
Go to the FAQ section. Here is an answer I found interesting; I think it (and
other answers on the site) partially negates the theory that cats are better
off declawed if someone will take them. They may take them in, but for how
long? If an owner cant handle a cat with claws, he/she certainly cant handle
a cat with the resulting physical and psychological damage that often occurs.
Furthermore, if a person is educated on the atrocities of declawing, and still
insists upon it, in my opinion, he/she should not be allowed to have pets. I
think the problem is education. I think people would not wish their pets
declawed if they truly knew and understood the alternatives and the
consequences. Read on
Actually, declawed cats may be at a disadvantage. There is evidence that
declawed cats are disproportionately abandoned at shelters, and that declawed
cats may be euthanized more often because of the behavioral and physical
problems that result from declawing. Pet owners typically cite protection of
their furnishings as being foremost among their reasons for having a cat
declawed; however, such owners may not realize that the pain and other
complications from the surgery can cause behavioral problems that are even
worse than the problems for which the cat's toes were amputated. A cat can
still bite a child and may become more prone to do so if it has no claws. A cat
whose paws hurt when scratching in a litter box may avoid the litter box
altogether, a behavior that may not be tolerated by the owner.
Alternatives to declawing exist. Nail caps can be glued painlessly to a cat's
claws to prevent damage due to scratching. A cat can be trained to use
scratching posts to sharpen its claws without damaging furniture. Also, regular
nail trimming, repellent sprays, and double-sided tape applied to furniture
help deter a cat from unwanted scratching.
In a 1996 JAVMA article, Gary Patronek, VMD, PhD, using multivariate
Re: OT: Kitten Question
Probiotics! That's what I couldn't think of. It's late! t Kat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Caroline, They may still be reacting to the antibiotics/amoxi. It tends to wipe out the good gut bacteria with the baddies. Try adding some probiotics to their food, or maybe try some plain yogurt with live cultures to help rebuild the good gut bacteria. Kat (Mew Jersey) On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Caroline Kaufmann wrote: Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:54:31 -0400 From: Caroline Kaufmann Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: OT: Kitten Question I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it figures! Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them. They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that problem). On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I get it. I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster. So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week ago, so it can't be that causing the diarrhea? But now they seem to be having soft stools, if not actual diarrhea. Yoda seems to be having the diarrhea more (I can tell with him because he has a crate to himself and the other two share one). My first foster cat- which I guess I am keeping (!), she's 1 now and no longer a kitten but a big, healthy mature cat-- she gets the same protocol of supplements, except she gets fed 1/4 can of regular adult Wellness in the am and pm and free choice Wellness Dry Core. She mingles with the kittens now during play-time and she is not having any diarrhea. Does anyone have any thoughts about a possible cause of diarrhea and what I can do about it? I'd appreciate some help! I haven't had kittens since I was 10, so I just don't know much about them... -Caroline _ Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. Its our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_WLHMTxt_2
Re: Here is the link
Many people on this list mix fiv and felv positive cats. With no transmission I might add. Could you ask your questions in a less confrontational manner? t Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHAT? This shelter does not separate fiv+ and felv+.? What kind of place is this? Why would you expose a fiv+ cat to felv? And vice versa? Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 2:10 PM Subject: Re: Here is the link Hi Glenda,isn't she georgeous!!! :) We do not separate the felv and the fiv.I wish we had the space to do so.Until I become one of those crazy cat ladies that win the lottery it will have to do!! :) I myself have 3 fiv+ boys and one boy that tested felv+ when he first arrived to Sids and then 1 1/2 years later tested negative for anything.Then I brought Genevieve home back in April,she was felv+.I risked it because my heart told me to bring that baby girl home to love her as much as possible.AND I DID!! I am getting choked up just writing about her.It will be 4 weeks tomorrow since she left us. :( You did not offend me in anyway,I just get a bit uneasy when it comes to that subject. Thank you for checking out the fur kids. Sherry and her fur baby boys Rafferty,CousCous,Xander and Tristan glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
RE: Kitten Question
If it smells really, distinctively bad, it could be coccidia... I still
agree with the others that it's the antibiotics, and it needs some time.
t
Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }Hi Caroline,
I was thinking about you and the kitties. Im glad to have a new topic to
discussthanks!
Anyway, I gather from your post that they didnt have diarrhea before or soft
stools right? I know my vet told me the antibiotics can cause diarrhea. We had
Ashley on Clavomox because of her cow-pie stools, but even after she was
finished with the Clavomox, it took 2 weeks for the stools to harden. She still
has a touch of the soft stools and some stinky gas now and then, but the smell
isnt unbearable as it was before. Our house no longer smells like a giant
litter box. This may sound gross, but hows the smell? With Ashley it was
nauseatingit could seriously bring you to your knees. It turned out to be
persistent parasites or bacteria or something like that which hadnt gotten
cleared up from the first trips to the vets. She was a kitty eating out of a
dumpster, and I think the vet figured that because of the damage done, it was
taking longer to rehabilitate her. However, she came to me with diarrhea; she
didnt develop it. And it took several months to get better
(after much distress on my part). But, like I said, the vet said the
antibiotics can cause diarrhea. Maybe it just takes a while to get out of your
kitties systems.
I think its great that you load up on the vitamins and supplements, but you
make me feel like a negligent mommy!
Oh, we also switched Ashley to some blander food for a while. I think it was
Science Diet ID or something like that. But, I think youre light years ahead
of me on the nutritional side of things anyway.
I hope you find homes for your babies really soon. You should post some
pictures of them for us! We could all use a little cheering up and a reminder
that the kitties, not our egos, are the most important things here.
Melissa
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline
Kaufmann
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:55 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: OT: Kitten Question
I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site
adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and
totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the instigator
and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little Kittler, so it
figures!
Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I
don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them.
They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry kitten.
Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m., and the same
in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten the Wet food,
they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay in crates when I
am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They are all drinking
water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but I don't think they
go too long before I am able to get home and refill them and it doesn't happen
every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so these should solve that
problem).
On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and Brewer's
yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do the same, but
add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each. I just placed an
order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching them to that when I
get it.
I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if
they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The
smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that hasn't
been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a little
eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I took in that
I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the floor for
adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and I've had him
since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster.
So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and getting
noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so MUCH energy!
My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and supplements!) when I
let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time. They are all well
now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out of them, but I finally
did it. I stopped the Amoxicillin well over a week
RE: OT: Kitten Question
I agree. And not to gross everyone out there's a difference between constant,
runny diarrhea (that could cause dehydration and warrant a vet visit) and loose
stools when they normally would go anyway. Does that make sense? If they are
going all the time and it's watery, check for hydration. If it just happens
that when they do go their stool is not firm, I would give it some time. Try
the probiotics and pumpkin.
t
Melissa Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }Caroline,
In my previous post, I mentioned how it took Ashley two weeks to get better
after the antibiotics had made it through. We had an appointment at the vet
scheduled for 2 weeks after finishing the medicine (to take stool samples), but
it turned out that she didnt need to go in since she was better. If it were me
with the high vet bills that I usually have, Id wait another week since they
just finished their antibiotics. But, Im not a vet or an expert. As long as
they are eating and drinking, I think that theyd be okay. But, please dont
chastise me anyone if this is bad advicejust set me straight!
Melissa
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline
Kaufmann
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:15 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: RE: OT: Kitten Question
I am not sure about their worming schedule at this point- I took them in from
another volunteer/rescuer b/c she was overloaded and they weren't getting
proper care, so she has their records. All were given Advantage before they
came to me. I'm pretty sure they got a deworming tho, b/c I know they give
dewormer to kittens even smaller than these and I doubt the other volunteer
would have had them in her house with her other cats w/o first deworming.
Plus, I look for worms all the time and have never seen any.
Do I need to take them to a vet?
Thanks,
Caroline
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:05:35 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: OT: Kitten Question
It could be coccidia or giardia. Both are very common in kittens.
Coccidia is treated with albon, giardia with flagyl.
It could be worms, but I'm thinking you wormed them already.
On 9/25/07, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am down to three foster kittens now as one was integrated to the on-site
adoption facility (the pet supply store) on Saturday. He was bigger and
totally healthy and getting to be too much for me because he was the
instigator and a bad influence on the other ones. He was a B/W little
Kittler, so it figures!
Of the three I have now, they seem to be having a touch of diarrhea? And I
don't know what the cause is? I'm not doing anything different with them.
They all get fed Wellness Wet Kitten food and Eagle Pack Holistic dry
kitten. Each gets about a half of the small can of Wellness in the a.m.,
and the same in the evening. When I leave for work, after they have eaten
the Wet food, they get the Eagle Dry- kind of free choice because they stay
in crates when I am not home, so I like to leave them with some food. They
are all drinking water fine, except for when they tip their waters over, but
I don't think they go too long before I am able to get home and refill them
and it doesn't happen every day (I just ordered coop cups from Revival, so
these should solve that problem).
On their wet food in the am I sprinkle L-Lysine free form powder and
Brewer's yeast (and have been doing this for weeks now). In the pm, I do
the same, but add a sprinkled on gel cap of Colostrum- about 290 mgs each.
I just placed an order for Just Born with Colostrum and will be switching
them to that when I get it.
I think, but am not for sure, that they are June babies and I don't know if
they are from the same litter- 2 might be, but I don't know for sure. The
smallest now weighs 2.8 (and I should not that this is the only one that
hasn't been fixed yet because it weighed too little, but now with me, it's a
little eating and growing machine!). The biggest- Yoda- the first one I
took in that I thought might die (weighed 2.4 lbs and they had him on the
floor for adoption!?! with a raging URI!), anyway, he now weighs 3.6 lbs and
I've had him since Labor Day Weekend He's a growing monster.
So they all have healthy appetites and they are all gaining weight and
getting noticeably bigger. They run and play like maniacs (they have so
MUCH energy! My mom tells me to stop pumping them full of vitamins and
supplements!) when I let them out of their crates twice a day for play-time.
They are all well now-- it took 2 weeks to 14 days to bust those URI's out
of them, but I finally did it. I
Re: Here is the link
Glenda, In my approximately 10 years on this list I have never heard of a cat with fiv 'catching' felv from a mixed situation. Now cats do test initially sometimes for both. But I have had fiv cats mixed with felv with no problem. It's not a perfect world, and Sherry and Crash's Landing do so much good that I think you should calm down on the heavy judgements. Those who have been on this list for a long time, and many who have left, have already had this discussion with Sherry. People agree and disagree. But I don't think anyone feels that Dr. Jen is doing a wonderful thing trying to save as many of these cats as she can. And Sherry, who also deals with each loss, doesn't need such negative feedback. tonya glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sherry, She is absolutely beautiful. I have to tell you, when I realized the thinking behind how your shelter, where you volunteer, with the declawing policy and reading about the section for the special needs kitties I thought I would ask if the FIV+ kitties were mixed with the FeLV+ kitties. I do not think I am surprised... Sherry I am trying to control my emotions ,but I have to tell you I am scared to death for these two groups of cats. I am believing/hoping your girl Mystique is vaccinated...that could help, but she is at terrible risk. Her immune system is already compromised by the FIV. I cannot implore you strongly enough to please get her out of Crash'slanding ASAP! You have been lucky with your FIV kitties and especially with your kitty who threw the FIV. When I read about the beautiful Mystique, I felt relieved that she was only FIV+. I felt you would have good luck with her and she might live a pretty normal life. The fact she is in a situation where she can contract the FeLV virus any day now, is making me a little crazy...I worry about her and everyone else in that environment...and what about the kitties that might possibly be able one day, to throw one of the viruses or the other? What chance do any of them really have...They are at huge risk of getting THE OTHER virus. There has to be a way to seperate the two groups. FIV+ kitties have such a better chance , but here they are almost certainly, over time going to become FeLV+ too. You need to get Mystique out of there. You should have her tested for both FIV and FeLV, just so you know, what you will be dealing with. Then have her tested again in 4-6 months. If she is FeLV- you are both blessed. If I were you, I'd want to know, for myself, if she is really FIV+. Crash'slanding comes across beautifully on it's intro page and it is set up well to navigate through. The kitties are beautiful. Their stories are well written and touching. This is a nokill shelter, right? The way it appears to me, is a showplace type of place, that collects cats, donations ,but seriously needs to become a bit more cat- friendly...Besides taking in these cats, are they really doing what is best for each cat? If they cannot seperate the FIV+ cats from the FeLV+ cats they should only be dealing with cats with one disease or the other disease and let another shelter deal with the other... Do they get a lot of volunteers as sweet as you? Well, they are lucky if they do. Nobody is driving a cadillac are they...bad joke, sorry. I have one FeLV+ cat in my household of 7-cats. All my cats are vaccinated. Yet I am very, very careful my negatives do not come into contact with my one positive, little girl. If I found out I had a FIV+ cat in my household I would possibly allow him to continue as always with his brothers, but if anyone were to turn up FeLV+ it is quarantine time. FIV is a far easier disease to deal with. I'm in the process of having all my guys tested again, because my guys do get outside at times, supervised, as they are and as confident as I am they have not run into any positive, strange kitties out there, I still believe in knowing their health status every year or so...This, because I do not believe in putting any of my kitties in harm's way. If I were perfect, they would never get outside, at ever, but I love for them to have fun in the yard...I get weak when they beg...I am a bad mommy for that, but I take that risk for the, quality of life, argument... Well, I have done enough damage for one day...Sherry, thank you. And please do not hate me, because ...I do not trust people... Love and best wishes from Nebraska, Glenda --- Sherry DeHaan wrote: Hi Glenda,isn't she georgeous!!! :) We do not separate the felv and the fiv.I wish we had the space to do so.Until I become one of those crazy cat ladies that win the lottery it will have to do!! :) I myself have 3 fiv+ boys and one boy that tested felv+ when he first arrived to Sids and then 1 1/2 years later tested negative for anything.Then I brought Genevieve home back in April,she was felv+.I risked it because my heart told me to bring that baby girl home to love her as much as possible.AND I DID!! I am
Re: Here is the link
It is not irresponsible, and the way you word your comments certainly doesn't bring people around to your point of view. t Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but it is irresponsible to deliberately expose cats w/already compromised immune systems from one deadly disease to another deadly disease.. That is just bad news. And no, you cannot save them all. And if you try, well, that's another can of worms. I am entitled to my opinion, and so are you. However, I have had to play cleanup on too many well intented sanctuaries and /or rescue people, so, I've just about seen it all. Not to mention that this is just how I got my felv+/fiv+ cats in the first place. From rescue people that were in over their heads, mixing various dieases due to an imperfect world. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Sherry DeHaan To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 5:18 PM Subject: Re: Here is the link Well I guess it is either that or just them die without a chance to live at all.You can only do so much with what you can. So I guess now you think this is a horrible place?? This place gives them ALL a second chance to have any kind of life at all !! Believe me I'm sure in a PERFECT world this would be different. If you knew everything the lady that runs both sanctuaries does for these wonderful beings,how many times she fought for thier lives(including the fiv felv)she brought them home to her house to nurse them back to health.We do the best we can. Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHAT? This shelter does not separate fiv+ and felv+.? What kind of place is this? Why would you expose a fiv+ cat to felv? And vice versa? Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent
Re: Here is the link
Sherry, You have nothing to defend. t Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Glenda I DO NOT hate anybody,but I do get tired of defending the way Crash's landing is run.It is run by a licensed vet and she is a wonderful human with a big heart.The fiv cats are vaccinated for felv and yes we know it is not 100% safe.But it is either this or death.We love each and every one of those cats with all our hearts and yes ALL the volunteers are very kind people.It is a no kill shelter and I am very proud of being a part of it.Not everyone is EVER going to agree on EVERYTHING that people do.So we just should respect each other for the loving we have for these animals in our lives. glenda Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sherry, She is absolutely beautiful. I have to tell you, when I realized the thinking behind how your shelter, where you volunteer, with the declawing policy and reading about the section for the special needs kitties I thought I would ask if the FIV+ kitties were mixed with the FeLV+ kitties. I do not think I am surprised... Sherry I am trying to control my emotions ,but I have to tell you I am scared to death for these two groups of cats. I am believing/hoping your girl Mystique is vaccinated...that could help, but she is at terrible risk. Her immune system is already compromised by the FIV. I cannot implore you strongly enough to please get her out of Crash'slanding ASAP! You have been lucky with your FIV kitties and especially with your kitty who threw the FIV. When I read about the beautiful Mystique, I felt relieved that she was only FIV+. I felt you would have good luck with her and she might live a pretty normal life. The fact she is in a situation where she can contract the FeLV virus any day now, is making me a little crazy...I worry about her and everyone else in that environment...and what about the kitties that might possibly be able one day, to throw one of the viruses or the other? What chance do any of them really have...They are at huge risk of getting THE OTHER virus. There has to be a way to seperate the two groups. FIV+ kitties have such a better chance , but here they are almost certainly, over time going to become FeLV+ too. You need to get Mystique out of there. You should have her tested for both FIV and FeLV, just so you know, what you will be dealing with. Then have her tested again in 4-6 months. If she is FeLV- you are both blessed. If I were you, I'd want to know, for myself, if she is really FIV+. Crash'slanding comes across beautifully on it's intro page and it is set up well to navigate through. The kitties are beautiful. Their stories are well written and touching. This is a nokill shelter, right? The way it appears to me, is a showplace type of place, that collects cats, donations ,but seriously needs to become a bit more cat- friendly...Besides taking in these cats, are they really doing what is best for each cat? If they cannot seperate the FIV+ cats from the FeLV+ cats they should only be dealing with cats with one disease or the other disease and let another shelter deal with the other... Do they get a lot of volunteers as sweet as you? Well, they are lucky if they do. Nobody is driving a cadillac are they...bad joke, sorry. I have one FeLV+ cat in my household of 7-cats. All my cats are vaccinated. Yet I am very, very careful my negatives do not come into contact with my one positive, little girl. If I found out I had a FIV+ cat in my household I would possibly allow him to continue as always with his brothers, but if anyone were to turn up FeLV+ it is quarantine time. FIV is a far easier disease to deal with. I'm in the process of having all my guys tested again, because my guys do get outside at times, supervised, as they are and as confident as I am they have not run into any positive, strange kitties out there, I still believe in knowing their health status every year or so...This, because I do not believe in putting any of my kitties in harm's way. If I were perfect, they would never get outside, at ever, but I love for them to have fun in the yard...I get weak when they beg...I am a bad mommy for that, but I take that risk for the, quality of life, argument... Well, I have done enough damage for one day...Sherry, thank you. And please do not hate me, because ...I do not trust people... Love and best wishes from Nebraska, Glenda --- Sherry DeHaan wrote: Hi Glenda,isn't she georgeous!!! :) We do not separate the felv and the fiv.I wish we had the space to do so.Until I become one of those crazy cat ladies that win the lottery it will have to do!! :) I myself have 3 fiv+ boys and one boy that tested felv+ when he first arrived to Sids and then 1 1/2 years later tested negative for anything.Then I brought Genevieve home back in April,she was felv+.I risked it because my heart told me to bring that baby girl home to love her as much as possible.AND I DID!! I am getting choked up just writing about her.It will be 4 weeks
list matters
I think it's pretty out in the open now. Susan and Glenda tend to judge others on the list. This is OUR list. We can ignore and correct misinformation when it comes from anyone. This has always been THE most supportive and informative list I have ever been on. Let's not lose the list due to a few people. tonya Sherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WHATEVER!!! I am sorry that this has come to what it is.do you think everything you do is perfect!!?? Susan Dubose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, THAT rant was intended for one person on this list. However, let me just tell you this, if a REPUTABLE, ETHICAL vet in the area finds out what this woman is doing, they will most likely have AC on her. When you start running out of room to separate your diseases, you stop intake. period. You do not begin to mix them. That is basic shelter 101. And no, it never feels good to know that you cannot help them all. However, she could take some of that money that she is using to declaw cats and build another room, hence, separating her diseases. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Susan Dubose To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:36 PM Subject: arrrggghhh.! Part II.! This sheltermixes felv+ cats w/ fiv+ cats,due to lack of space to separate..! Read below. What kind of hellhole is this? It's called crash landing PLease do not forward.. - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
