Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
great information, jenny. thanks for sharing it with us, as it can make such a difference when we know the right things to discuss with our vets! On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 4:13 PM, jbero tds.net -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
Thanks for your input, Belinda. You have all been so much help and thankfully I don't feel alone in this journey. It's such a comfort knowing others have been through this and can share insight that would otherwise be unavailable to me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Lukey just came home from the vet today. He has a feeding tube through his nose which he hates but he's obviously glad to be back home and I'm obviously glad to have a way to feed him that doesn't involve kicking and scratching! The good news is that his reticulocyte count is climbing and the bad news is that his hematocrit is lower at around 14%. I have been talking with Jenny off and on today about what his profile means and how likely it is that his number will continue to fall while we wait on his red blood cells to regenerate sufficiently to raise it. She told me that Autumn went from 14 to 4 in a week but that she only had one shot of LTCI on board at the time and was not yet showing regeneration. Lukey still has his catheter in for another day or two just in case. So for now I'm going to watch him very closely and have a vet lined up in case a transfusion is necessary. If you believe in prayer, we could sure use some extra in the coming days while we wait on the LTCI to continue to help him. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart Disease Since 1996 http://www.HeartTech.com E-mail: sa...@towerlaboratories.com Toll Free: 1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) Voice: 502.368.2720; 502.368.2721 Fax: 502.368.0019 Pauling Therapy Information Web site: http://www.HeartTech.com Pauling Therapy Order Link: http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com The information provided herein is educational and is not intended as either diagnosis or treatment. The content of this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is directly addressed or copied. It may contain material of confidential and/or private nature. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is not allowed. If you received this message and the information contained therein by error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your/any storage medium. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey My Vet will wait as low as 12 but it really depends on the cat and the shape they are in. Fred's HCT is at 20 right now the lowest it's been since he started down this road of kidney insufficiency 4 years ago. I think if he goes too much lower he will have to start epogen. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felinele ukemia.o rg ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
Thanks for your input, Belinda. You have all been so much help and thankfully I don't feel alone in this journey. It's such a comfort knowing others have been through this and can share insight that would otherwise be unavailable to me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Lukey just came home from the vet today. He has a feeding tube through his nose which he hates but he's obviously glad to be back home and I'm obviously glad to have a way to feed him that doesn't involve kicking and scratching! The good news is that his reticulocyte count is climbing and the bad news is that his hematocrit is lower at around 14%. I have been talking with Jenny off and on today about what his profile means and how likely it is that his number will continue to fall while we wait on his red blood cells to regenerate sufficiently to raise it. She told me that Autumn went from 14 to 4 in a week but that she only had one shot of LTCI on board at the time and was not yet showing regeneration. Lukey still has his catheter in for another day or two just in case. So for now I'm going to watch him very closely and have a vet lined up in case a transfusion is necessary. If you believe in prayer, we could sure use some extra in the coming days while we wait on the LTCI to continue to help him. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart Disease Since 1996 http://www.HeartTech.com E-mail: sa...@towerlaboratories.com Toll Free: 1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) Voice: 502.368.2720; 502.368.2721 Fax: 502.368.0019 Pauling Therapy Information Web site: http://www.HeartTech.com Pauling Therapy Order Link: http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com The information provided herein is educational and is not intended as either diagnosis or treatment. The content of this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is directly addressed or copied. It may contain material of confidential and/or private nature. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is not allowed. If you received this message and the information contained therein by error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your/any storage medium. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:01 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey My Vet will wait as low as 12 but it really depends on the cat and the shape they are in. Fred's HCT is at 20 right now the lowest it's been since he started down this road of kidney insufficiency 4 years ago. I think if he goes too much lower he will have to start epogen. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felinele ukemia.o rg ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
Sally, If Lukey needs to be fed for more than a day or tow the nasel tube is VERY uncomfortable, you'd really be better served getting an e tube, I've had 3 kitties with this and it was a life saver, none of them had any problems with it and all of them gained back the lost weight and then some. Bailey my FeLV+ was one of them. It really was a very bonding time time all of us because you get very close, Buddie my cancer kitty loved her feedings and would run to the couch in anticipation when she saw me go in the kitchen and get her syringes ready for feeding, she would lay with all fours under her and purr while I fed her and promptly lay on her side for a nap when we were done. We got very close. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
Belinda, We were just concerned about sedating him to put the e-tube in, since he's weak and his RBCs so low. Have any of you ever had an e-tube placed in a cat that was this anemic? Again, any information or advice I can glean from all of you is most appreciated and heeded, since this is my first FeLV kitty to crash. Thanks! Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart Disease Since 1996 http://www.HeartTech.com E-mail: sa...@towerlaboratories.com Toll Free: 1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) Voice: 502.368.2720; 502.368.2721 Fax: 502.368.0019 Pauling Therapy Information Web site: http://www.HeartTech.com Pauling Therapy Order Link: http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com The information provided herein is educational and is not intended as either diagnosis or treatment. The content of this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is directly addressed or copied. It may contain material of confidential and/or private nature. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is not allowed. If you received this message and the information contained therein by error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your/any storage medium. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 5:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey Sally, If Lukey needs to be fed for more than a day or tow the nasel tube is VERY uncomfortable, you'd really be better served getting an e tube, I've had 3 kitties with this and it was a life saver, none of them had any problems with it and all of them gained back the lost weight and then some. Bailey my FeLV+ was one of them. It really was a very bonding time time all of us because you get very close, Buddie my cancer kitty loved her feedings and would run to the couch in anticipation when she saw me go in the kitchen and get her syringes ready for feeding, she would lay with all fours under her and purr while I fed her and promptly lay on her side for a nap when we were done. We got very close. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felinele ukemia.o rg ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
Belinda, We were just concerned about sedating him to put the e-tube in, since he's weak and his RBCs so low. Have any of you ever had an e-tube placed in a cat that was this anemic? Again, any information or advice I can glean from all of you is most appreciated and heeded, since this is my first FeLV kitty to crash. Thanks! Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart Disease Since 1996 http://www.HeartTech.com E-mail: sa...@towerlaboratories.com Toll Free: 1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) Voice: 502.368.2720; 502.368.2721 Fax: 502.368.0019 Pauling Therapy Information Web site: http://www.HeartTech.com Pauling Therapy Order Link: http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com The information provided herein is educational and is not intended as either diagnosis or treatment. The content of this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is directly addressed or copied. It may contain material of confidential and/or private nature. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is not allowed. If you received this message and the information contained therein by error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your/any storage medium. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 5:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey Sally, If Lukey needs to be fed for more than a day or tow the nasel tube is VERY uncomfortable, you'd really be better served getting an e tube, I've had 3 kitties with this and it was a life saver, none of them had any problems with it and all of them gained back the lost weight and then some. Bailey my FeLV+ was one of them. It really was a very bonding time time all of us because you get very close, Buddie my cancer kitty loved her feedings and would run to the couch in anticipation when she saw me go in the kitchen and get her syringes ready for feeding, she would lay with all fours under her and purr while I fed her and promptly lay on her side for a nap when we were done. We got very close. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felinele ukemia.o rg ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
Typically a nasal tube is used at the hospital for cats too weak for an e-tube. Some have used a nasal tube at home. You have to use a liquid food like Clinicare with the nasal tube. Have you joined the Yahoo Assist Feeding group? http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-Assisted-Feeding/ There is info in their files on members who have used a nasal tube at home. I would follow your vets advise as to whether Lukey is strong enough for the procedure for an e-tube. Check out the FAF files on e-tubes if you go that route. E-tube placement should be a simple procedure but there is always a risk with a sick kitty. Sharyl --- On Sat, 9/26/09, Tower Laboratories Corporation sa...@towerlaboratories.com wrote: From: Tower Laboratories Corporation sa...@towerlaboratories.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 5:52 PM Belinda, We were just concerned about sedating him to put the e-tube in, since he's weak and his RBCs so low. Have any of you ever had an e-tube placed in a cat that was this anemic? Again, any information or advice I can glean from all of you is most appreciated and heeded, since this is my first FeLV kitty to crash. Thanks! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
Bailey's HCT was around 18 or 20 when he had his etube put in. The main thing they were worried about was clotting and he was clotting OK. I don't remember were you looking at doing a transfusion? Lukey's HCT was 14 is that right? That is about the point where a transfusion would be considered. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
When Bailey had his done it was done with I think a local and isoflouren (sp) gas, the procedure takes about 15 to 20 minutes. I'm not positive of that because it has been almost 4 years ago. I do know my vet had only done about 2 of them and actually had the manual on the procedure with her and even so it only took 15 or 20 minutes. I guess if you are considering a transfusion you may want to wait until after that. Sending lots of prayers for Lukey, if he is OK with the nasel tube I would just stay with that and get food into him, also vitamin b, folic acid and Nutrived these all will help build new blood -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
Sally, Not a good report, but not entirely without hope either. Do you happen to know the specific numbers on the CBCs? Get a copy of the reports. Read them carefully - vets miss things sometimes and don't always remember to convey all the information they have when they meet with you. It happens, not intentionally or maliciously. Here is specifically what I would like to know: 1. Reticulocyte count for each CBC you had done- if this number is increasing (I would like to see by way of thousands or tens of thousands) than you are certainly on the right path and need only wait until those cells become mature enough to replenish the RBCs in the peripheral blood. A regenerating anemia is defined as a reticulocyte count greater than 15,000 (for most labs). An exact number and change in numbers over time would give me a better idea of what is going on in his bone marrow. Understand that it takes time for these cells to mature before they become fully functional for his needs - in the meantime a blood transfusion could be necessary. 2.Hematocrit - most vets will transfuse around 18 or 19. If this is his first transfusion and he has a hematocrit around 14-15, I would not hesitate to transfuse. In general the first transfusion is kind of a freebee. They generally do not have a reaction until subsequent transfusions. Your vet, however, should make sure that the transfused blood is a match for Lukey. You can do a type and cross or a full panel (~$100.00). If she is uncomfortable about this I would go to an emergency vet or someone who feels comfortable doing them. It should be a slow transfusion and he should be monitored for any signs of a reaction. If there is, you simply stop the transfusion. It is a risk/benefit analysis. In my opinion, a hematocrit of 15 is certainly worth transfusing. I would not hesitate - not even one day. Again, I would like to see the numbers. 3. Lymphocytes - this number should be increasing as a sign of stimulated immune response (a sign the LTCI is working)- I would like to know all results from the first to the last blood draws. 4. Platlets - an increase in these also suggests a stimulated bone marrow indicating the LTCI is working. Autumn had a hematocrit of 10, I believe, when I brought her in for the first visit. She had a hematocrit of 4 when I transfused her. I would not recommend waiting this long. She was dying, a matter of hours and she would have died. Do not wait until this point. Here's the concept. Mature RBCs live about 2 1/2 to 3 months in most cats, at the end of that time, the spleen destroys the old cells in anticipation of new ones. It is likely that Lukey has had a suppressed production of RBCs for quite some time and now the old RBCs are being destroyed. If his bone marrow sort of woke up after the LTCI injection, it takes weeks for the bone marrow to generate the cells and then more time for them to mature. So in the cycle of normal bone marrow production of RBCs and destruction by the spleen, Lukey's cycle was interrupted and now weeks later when the old RBCs are dying there aren't any new mature ones to take their place. If there is evidence that the bone marrow is waking up (increased reticulocyte count, lymphocyte count and platelet count) what you need to do is provide supportive care until those cells can mature and do their job. This may very well include a transfusion. I would not fear the transfusion because of a reaction if he is that severely anemic. Everyday his old cells are dying. It is a race between new maturing RBCs and destruction of the old ones. The statement that Lukey has a regenerative anemia is very promising. Right now is a very difficult time for you and for him as he is in the lull between the suppressing effects of Felv+ and the hopefully productive effects of LTCI. You are seeing a clinically diminishing status but his lab work suggests improvement. I would rely on the labs and take heart in the promising numbers. If you give me the numbers I can tell you how happy or not happy I would be with the presence of and rate of improvement. Take heart knowing that the clnical improvement will be slow and delayed from the lab tests. What you see improving in lab values you should see reflected in clinical improvement with time. Be patient but don't hesitate to transfuse if necessary. This is my opinion and how I would evaluate and proceed with an animal of my own. There is never a guarantee, but I will pray for you and for him. If there is anything more I can do, please don't hesitate to ask. Jenny ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Sally and Lukey
My Vet will wait as low as 12 but it really depends on the cat and the shape they are in. Fred's HCT is at 20 right now the lowest it's been since he started down this road of kidney insufficiency 4 years ago. I think if he goes too much lower he will have to start epogen. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
