Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
Just look at people accused of torturing, killing people. They don't get very severe punishments either. As far as I am concerned, if you kill someone, you should die also. Our jails/prisons are full of life termers who have killed or maimed someone. Look at Charles Manson. How many did he kill and he is still alive. Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: There are so many DNA lists, which I get almost daily, of people who take puppies and kittens, torture them, kill them, use for dog fightingand if they're not caught in the act, nothing is done and they continueposting free animals on Craigslist is the worst! And look at all those who have gone to court for torturing, killing animals - what do they get? A slap on the wrist, a little fine and/or a suspended sentence.Once in a while, it's slightly more severe. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 7:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 You are so right Natalie And as for those people saying Free kittens to a good home, they mean anyone who will take a kitten off their hands! Lorrue On 06-30, Natalie wrote: Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
Unfortunately, technically, the Manson creep didn't do the killing himself...no excuse. They should stop putting people in prison for silly little things like possession of grass - they become criminals while in there. And then there are murderers, rapists, who serve less time than they do if they had a good lawyer. The private prison systems is making millions! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlg...@windstream.net Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 4:39 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Just look at people accused of torturing, killing people. They don't get very severe punishments either. As far as I am concerned, if you kill someone, you should die also. Our jails/prisons are full of life termers who have killed or maimed someone. Look at Charles Manson. How many did he kill and he is still alive. Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: There are so many DNA lists, which I get almost daily, of people who take puppies and kittens, torture them, kill them, use for dog fightingand if they're not caught in the act, nothing is done and they continueposting free animals on Craigslist is the worst! And look at all those who have gone to court for torturing, killing animals - what do they get? A slap on the wrist, a little fine and/or a suspended sentence.Once in a while, it's slightly more severe. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 7:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 You are so right Natalie And as for those people saying Free kittens to a good home, they mean anyone who will take a kitten off their hands! Lorrue On 06-30, Natalie wrote: Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
They may be only animals, but God created them for a purpose. They are part of His creation and we are only stewards, caring for the world, not destroying it. That said, I call my cats my furbabies and care for them as such. They get the same shelter, food and medical care I would give to my child. If I had children and cats, had to make a choice between caring for one or the other, I would of course care for my child first, but I would find a home just as caring as mine if that time came. I would not just dump the cats. I only have as many as I can care for - 7. They call me the crazy cat lady around here because of my love for them. They give me love in return and give me a purpose in my life. Ever try to sleep when a cat wants out or food or God forbid, My box is soiled, it needs to be cleaned!! I cannot just sit around and feel sorry for myself because I am alone because they won't allow it. They make me smile and give joy to my soul. Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: After years in rescue, I'm so cynical that I truly believe if you did all the killing of cats and dogs on a large stage in a see-through dome, some people would view it as entertainment while the majority would hurry by, averting their eyes and telling themselves that it's just a movie, it doesn't really exist, it's not so bad, it's only animals and they don't have a soul anyway, according to most religions, or some other myth. They would acclimate to the situation and soon it would be like everything else in our lovely Society. People passing by the homeless and maybe throwing a couple of coins in a hat, people ignoring automobile alarms, people closing their windows when their neighbors are fighting to the point of violence, people voting against clean air, clean water, natural food because they are so afraid of Big Industry raising the prices of candy bars, LuLuPop cereal, iPads and iPhones. People sticking their heads in the sand and mumbling Just Say No when the idea of birth control for teenagers comes up and people wanting that cute designer kitten to match the living room sofa or that pure bred dog they think they can breed to make a fortune off the puppies by selling them at the side of the highway. This is so depressing I would advise you take a Prozac after reading it. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie On 06-29, Natalie wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
If people give kittens and puppies away, they do not know to whom they are going and what will be done to them. Even if they go to a home with children, often the children are not taught how to care for, treat them. Children can be cruel unless they are taught by their parents NOT to be cruel. The deer, rabbits, groundhog, turtle,squirels and raccoons are eating everything in my yard, but I cannot kill them. I know they are hungry and thirsty. We are going thru a long, very hot time (8 days of 100 - 108) and plants are dying from lack of water so, are the wild animals. So to save what I can of my plants, I have brought them on the deck and spray them with garlic and rotten egg. It saves my plants (especially vegies) and does not hurt the animals. I also put out water for all. I get my cats spayed/neutered. People say it is too expensive! Then, sorry, you should not have them if you cannot care for them. Same could be said about children. Seems a lot of people don't think about that until after the children are born. Lorrie felineres...@frontier.com wrote: You are so right Natalie And as for those people saying Free kittens to a good home, they mean anyone who will take a kitten off their hands! Lorrue On 06-30, Natalie wrote: Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
People find entertainment in so many awful things. You might find it interesting to Google whether animals have souls or not. There is quite a bit of information that indicates a lot of religions believe that they do...people have just found it convenient to ignore those teachings. On Jun 30, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Lee Evans wrote: After years in rescue, I'm so cynical that I truly believe if you did all the killing of cats and dogs on a large stage in a see- through dome, some people would view it as entertainment while the majority would hurry by, averting their eyes and telling themselves that it's just a movie, it doesn't really exist, it's not so bad, it's only animals and they don't have a soul anyway, according to most religions, or some other myth. They would acclimate to the situation and soon it would be like everything else in our lovely Society. People passing by the homeless and maybe throwing a couple of coins in a hat, people ignoring automobile alarms, people closing their windows when their neighbors are fighting to the point of violence, people voting against clean air, clean water, natural food because they are so afraid of Big Industry raising the prices of candy bars, LuLuPop cereal, iPads and iPhones. People sticking their heads in the sand and mumbling Just Say No when the idea of birth control for teenagers comes up and people wanting that cute designer kitten to match the living room sofa or that pure bred dog they think they can breed to make a fortune off the puppies by selling them at the side of the highway. This is so depressing I would advise you take a Prozac after reading it. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie On 06-29, Natalie wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
You are so right Natalie And as for those people saying Free kittens to a good home, they mean anyone who will take a kitten off their hands! Lorrue On 06-30, Natalie wrote: Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Killing (Lee)
LEE, I LOVE YOU... I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF. What a sick, miserable society we live in, and yes, I take Zoloft. It's the only thing that keeps me going. Lorrie On 06-30, Lee Evans wrote: After years in rescue, I'm so cynical that I truly believe if you did all the killing of cats and dogs on a large stage in a see-through dome, some people would view it as entertainment while the majority would hurry by, averting their eyes and telling themselves that it's just a movie, it doesn't really exist, it's not so bad, it's only animals and they don't have a soul anyway, according to most religions, or some other myth. They would acclimate to the situation and soon it would be like everything else in our lovely Society. People passing by the homeless and maybe throwing a couple of coins in a hat, people ignoring automobile alarms, people closing their windows when their neighbors are fighting to the point of violence, people voting against clean air, clean water, natural food because they are so afraid of Big Industry raising the prices of candy bars, LuLuPop cereal, iPads and iPhones. People sticking their heads in the sand and mumbling Just Say No when the idea of birth control for teenagers comes up and people wanting that cute designer kitten to match the living room sofa or that pure bred dog they think they can breed to make a fortune off the puppies by selling them at the side of the highway. This is so depressing I would advise you take a Prozac after reading it. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
There are so many DNA lists, which I get almost daily, of people who take puppies and kittens, torture them, kill them, use for dog fightingand if they're not caught in the act, nothing is done and they continueposting free animals on Craigslist is the worst! And look at all those who have gone to court for torturing, killing animals - what do they get? A slap on the wrist, a little fine and/or a suspended sentence.Once in a while, it's slightly more severe. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 7:36 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 You are so right Natalie And as for those people saying Free kittens to a good home, they mean anyone who will take a kitten off their hands! Lorrue On 06-30, Natalie wrote: Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 and a bit OT
I believe that everything on Earth has a Life Force. Perhaps that's a soul but we are all from the same place, from the same Architect, whatever or whoever one calls that. Therefore, I try not to eat anyone, kill anyone, displace anyone, pollute or dismantle anything unnecessarily unless my survival or the survival of my cat family, human friends depends on some destructive action. However, cats are carnivores by nature and I don't feel I have a right to make any decisions about their natural diet. Therefore they get meat and chicken. It's an unfortunate way the world was planned but at least I can take myself out of the killing field since I have a choice of getting protein from plant sources. Killing fleas would be one example of killing for the survival of my cats. Mowing a lawn would be an example of dismantling something for the survival of myself and the cats, or building a driveway, needing to destroy some plants and even a tree to do so comes under the category of dismantling in order ensure my longevity, since parking a car in the middle of an overgrown weedy lawn would eventually lead to a nasty fall getting to my house. I feel that if people would just think things through to a logical conclusion, most of the awful things that happen could be avoided. A person who is going to blow up a building has obviously not thought it through to the logical conclusion. He is not going to convert others to his way of thinking because they will be grieving, angry, shut down due to the deaths and destruction. But standing on a street corner, dressed nicely and talking through a PA system about his point of view, whatever it is may get him a few converts. Sermon over. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie On 06-29, Natalie wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kat Parker Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 2:07 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Hiya Kathryn and everyone. The federal statute you were referring to, Kathryn, is Section 1983, and my step-brother, Sheldon Eisenberg, is the one who wrote the Section 1983 to the rescue, on Nathan's site you found, and Sheldon used it in court representing Cathy Nguyen and Nathan against Los Angeles County Dept of Animal Care and Control, which he won a stipulated order from the judge in that lawsuit. (Not that it does any good at all, now, but ... whatever. lol) I did not intend to correct any person in particular, just wanted to mention the name of the law, which is really easy to forget, actually, but really wonderful to be able to use for all being a FEDERAL STATUTE, and there are a lot of rescuers in here. ~Kat~ -- Forwarded message -- The problem here is that I'm in Texas. Killing is the State Sport. Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a way to control outside cats. I think killing is a favorite sport in every state! Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie On 06-29, Natalie wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
After years in rescue, I'm so cynical that I truly believe if you did all the killing of cats and dogs on a large stage in a see-through dome, some people would view it as entertainment while the majority would hurry by, averting their eyes and telling themselves that it's just a movie, it doesn't really exist, it's not so bad, it's only animals and they don't have a soul anyway, according to most religions, or some other myth. They would acclimate to the situation and soon it would be like everything else in our lovely Society. People passing by the homeless and maybe throwing a couple of coins in a hat, people ignoring automobile alarms, people closing their windows when their neighbors are fighting to the point of violence, people voting against clean air, clean water, natural food because they are so afraid of Big Industry raising the prices of candy bars, LuLuPop cereal, iPads and iPhones. People sticking their heads in the sand and mumbling Just Say No when the idea of birth control for teenagers comes up and people wanting that cute designer kitten to match the living room sofa or that pure bred dog they think they can breed to make a fortune off the puppies by selling them at the side of the highway. This is so depressing I would advise you take a Prozac after reading it. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie On 06-29, Natalie wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
I wish mandatory s/n worked, but apparently it doesn't correlate with lower pound intakes. They went up when my town passed mandatory s/n. (Whereas they went down when we implemented low-cost s/n.) From Ryan Clinton (and please send flames his way, not mine): Research has demonstrated that mandatory spay/neuter laws have never worked in any community to either increase spay/neuter rates or to decrease shelter intake: http://www.aspca.org/about-us/policy-positions/mandatory-spay-neuter-laws.aspx . Not only that, but such laws have actually increased shelter intake and killing as pets are either surrendered or seized for failure to pay regressive fees: http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2011/01/los-angeles-msn-year-3-when-can-we-expect-it-to-start-working.html . It is also believed that such laws may reduce veterinary-care rates and vaccination rates, including rabies vaccinations: http://www.theriogenology.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1subarticlenbr=59 Thus, anyone and everyone who cares about animals should be against mandatory spay/neuter laws. In fact, nearly every single national animal-welfare organization IS against mandatory spay/neuter laws, including Alley Cat Allies, Best Friends Animal Society, the American Veterinary Medical Association, American Humane, the Anti-Cruelty League, the No Kill Advocacy Center, and both the American College of Theriogenologists and the Society of Theriogenology (both specialist organizations of veterinarians who are experts in spay/neuter), among many others. On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it – if it’s out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it – breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it’s the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= ** ** P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline….let’s put our heads together! It can be done! *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kat Parker *Sent:* Tuesday, June 05, 2012 2:07 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Section 1983 ** ** Hiya Kathryn and everyone. The federal statute you were referring to, Kathryn, is Section 1983, and my step-brother, Sheldon Eisenberg, is the one who wrote the Section 1983 to the rescue, on Nathan's site you found, and Sheldon used it in court representing Cathy Nguyen and Nathan against Los Angeles County Dept of Animal Care and Control, which he won a stipulated order from the judge in that lawsuit. (Not that it does any good at all, now, but ... whatever. lol) I did not intend to correct any person in particular, just wanted to mention the name of the law, which is really easy to forget, actually, but really wonderful to be able to use for all being a FEDERAL STATUTE, and there are a lot of rescuers in here. ~Kat~ -- Forwarded message -- From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:21:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters What do you mean by ``rules''? Laws? If they are not in compliance with laws, then turn them in. (Of course, if you're a rescuer pulling from these pounds, then you have to protect yourself using the federal law Section 1982: http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=728 As for the citizens, put ads in the papers, and maybe even send out informative flyers (ask for the money to do so via a Chipin). You can also try to get social media attention via the various animal blogs that push shelter reform, e.g., YesBiscuit!. Who holds the contract with the pound? Don't give up. It may take years, and we're seeing progress even in TX. Probably the moderator would like us to take this offline by now. . . On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote:* *** The problem here is that I'm in Texas. Killing is the State Sport. Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a way to control outside cats. They are still terrorizing people who have a small batch of backyard cats who are spayed/neutered and have their rabies shots. They are counting these cats in the 8 cat limit when the new code states specifically that they are NOT included in the cat limit rule. They recently reduced the number of
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
I've been at it for 20 years in August, on a large scale, but have rescued cats all my life, starting with being influenced by my parents who encouraged us to never look the other way. I absolutely agree - some people shouldn't breed! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee Evans Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 6:28 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 After years in rescue, I'm so cynical that I truly believe if you did all the killing of cats and dogs on a large stage in a see-through dome, some people would view it as entertainment while the majority would hurry by, averting their eyes and telling themselves that it's just a movie, it doesn't really exist, it's not so bad, it's only animals and they don't have a soul anyway, according to most religions, or some other myth. They would acclimate to the situation and soon it would be like everything else in our lovely Society. People passing by the homeless and maybe throwing a couple of coins in a hat, people ignoring automobile alarms, people closing their windows when their neighbors are fighting to the point of violence, people voting against clean air, clean water, natural food because they are so afraid of Big Industry raising the prices of candy bars, LuLuPop cereal, iPads and iPhones. People sticking their heads in the sand and mumbling Just Say No when the idea of birth control for teenagers comes up and people wanting that cute designer kitten to match the living room sofa or that pure bred dog they think they can breed to make a fortune off the puppies by selling them at the side of the highway. This is so depressing I would advise you take a Prozac after reading it. Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors too! _ From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Whenever people say that, I tell them what it really is: The miracle of death! First of all, the cat will most likely have the kittens at night, when they're away, in schooland when they say that they get good homes for the kittens, how can they honestly reinforce the absolute need for spaying/neutering to the adopters when the example they set was the exact opposite? And for every kitten that is allowed to be born and a home found, a rescue kitten will die because homes are so scarce. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 5:35 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Oh how very true. I wish the people who don't neuter and spay could all see this!!! I get so sick of people who let their cats have kittens so they can witness the miracle of life! How I wish their kids could watch all those precious cats and kittens being killed!! Lorrie On 06-29, Natalie wrote: Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
Exposing the killing horrors to the public is the best way to call attention to it; as the saying goes, if shelters had to kill animals in glass houses in town squares, they would stop doing it - if it's out of sight, out of mind, and easily swept under the rug., it will continue! People must become aware of it, mandatory spay/neuter laws must be passed, and legislators must stop taking money and be continually influenced by lobbyists who want nothing more than to stop it - breeders, many veterinarians, and hunting groups (YES, would you believe?) and many more you would never suspect, are against any spay/neuter legislation! But it's the ONLY answer! Natalie =^..^= P.S. Maybe all of the rescuers in this group who have ideas, should take this offline..let's put our heads together! It can be done! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kat Parker Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 2:07 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Section 1983 Hiya Kathryn and everyone. The federal statute you were referring to, Kathryn, is Section 1983, and my step-brother, Sheldon Eisenberg, is the one who wrote the Section 1983 to the rescue, on Nathan's site you found, and Sheldon used it in court representing Cathy Nguyen and Nathan against Los Angeles County Dept of Animal Care and Control, which he won a stipulated order from the judge in that lawsuit. (Not that it does any good at all, now, but ... whatever. lol) I did not intend to correct any person in particular, just wanted to mention the name of the law, which is really easy to forget, actually, but really wonderful to be able to use for all being a FEDERAL STATUTE, and there are a lot of rescuers in here. ~Kat~ -- Forwarded message -- From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:21:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters What do you mean by ``rules''? Laws? If they are not in compliance with laws, then turn them in. (Of course, if you're a rescuer pulling from these pounds, then you have to protect yourself using the federal law Section 1982: http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=728 As for the citizens, put ads in the papers, and maybe even send out informative flyers (ask for the money to do so via a Chipin). You can also try to get social media attention via the various animal blogs that push shelter reform, e.g., YesBiscuit!. Who holds the contract with the pound? Don't give up. It may take years, and we're seeing progress even in TX. Probably the moderator would like us to take this offline by now. . . On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: The problem here is that I'm in Texas. Killing is the State Sport. Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a way to control outside cats. They are still terrorizing people who have a small batch of backyard cats who are spayed/neutered and have their rabies shots. They are counting these cats in the 8 cat limit when the new code states specifically that they are NOT included in the cat limit rule. They recently reduced the number of cats/dogs allowed to 8 from 10. This makes no sense except when you realize that they will now charge for an excess animal permit. Then it makes sense to reduce the legal limit so that a number of people are now over the limit and have to purchase the permit. Nasty little tricks. People who have received a citation in the past for having over the permissible limit of cats/dogs are prohibited from purchasing the permit. More nonsense. It would help if all the ACO's were required to read the new codes and then be tested on whether or not they understand them. The citizens of this city don't know the rules either. Cat haters are terrorizing cat caring neighbors, threatening them with reporting them when there's nothing to report because the cat caregivers are actually in compliance. I think that ignorance is our worst enemy. Even when we get good ordinances, they don't work because no one knows about them. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Section 1983
Oops, sorry for the typo. And I'm a proofreader! On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:07 PM, Kat Parker korruptaki...@gmail.com wrote: Hiya Kathryn and everyone. The federal statute you were referring to, Kathryn, is Section 1983, and my step-brother, Sheldon Eisenberg, is the one who wrote the Section 1983 to the rescue, on Nathan's site you found, and Sheldon used it in court representing Cathy Nguyen and Nathan against Los Angeles County Dept of Animal Care and Control, which he won a stipulated order from the judge in that lawsuit. (Not that it does any good at all, now, but ... whatever. lol) I did not intend to correct any person in particular, just wanted to mention the name of the law, which is really easy to forget, actually, but really wonderful to be able to use for all being a FEDERAL STATUTE, and there are a lot of rescuers in here. ~Kat~ -- Forwarded message -- From: Kathryn Hargreaves khargrea...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 18:21:00 -0800 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Fwd: Cat shelters What do you mean by ``rules''? Laws? If they are not in compliance with laws, then turn them in. (Of course, if you're a rescuer pulling from these pounds, then you have to protect yourself using the federal law Section 1982: http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=728 As for the citizens, put ads in the papers, and maybe even send out informative flyers (ask for the money to do so via a Chipin). You can also try to get social media attention via the various animal blogs that push shelter reform, e.g., YesBiscuit!. Who holds the contract with the pound? Don't give up. It may take years, and we're seeing progress even in TX. Probably the moderator would like us to take this offline by now. . . On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com wrote: The problem here is that I'm in Texas. Killing is the State Sport. Unfortunately, most of the Animal Control Officers don't even know the new rules, which include acceptance of TNR as a way to control outside cats. They are still terrorizing people who have a small batch of backyard cats who are spayed/neutered and have their rabies shots. They are counting these cats in the 8 cat limit when the new code states specifically that they are NOT included in the cat limit rule. They recently reduced the number of cats/dogs allowed to 8 from 10. This makes no sense except when you realize that they will now charge for an excess animal permit. Then it makes sense to reduce the legal limit so that a number of people are now over the limit and have to purchase the permit. Nasty little tricks. People who have received a citation in the past for having over the permissible limit of cats/dogs are prohibited from purchasing the permit. More nonsense. It would help if all the ACO's were required to read the new codes and then be tested on whether or not they understand them. The citizens of this city don't know the rules either. Cat haters are terrorizing cat caring neighbors, threatening them with reporting them when there's nothing to report because the cat caregivers are actually in compliance. I think that ignorance is our worst enemy. Even when we get good ordinances, they don't work because no one knows about them. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! If you can't adopt, then foster bottle baby shelter animal, to save their life: http://www.laanimalservices.com/volunteer_fostercare.htm If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to free up cage space. Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
