Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
"heart talk" -- I've never heard a better description. Thank you for giving me new language to describe something I know only intuitively. Marylyn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Find an animal communicator and ask Midnight his opinion. After all, wouldn't you want to be consulted? I'm not being flip and I truly understand your confusion and pain. I've been there too many times as has most people on this list. If you can't/don't find an ac find a very quiet room and sit there with Midnight with no distractions just heart talk. You can talk to him yourself. It is just that you are going to be very unsure of your answers given the newness of Midnight in your life and the seriousness of the issues. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Susan Hoffman To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down? Did your vet do bloodwork? What were the results? And do you truly trust this vet? Is Midnight eating, responding to petting? How much water is he drinking? Jennifer Madon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't responding to the antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not sprays everywhere) is because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for helping animals but says this is a one way street and there is pain and suffering at the end of the street. He suggests we say our goodbyes and put him down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to respond to this. We have only had him since the week after Christmas when he found us. Any suggestions? Jennifer
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
Find an animal communicator and ask Midnight his opinion. After all, wouldn't you want to be consulted? I'm not being flip and I truly understand your confusion and pain. I've been there too many times as has most people on this list. If you can't/don't find an ac find a very quiet room and sit there with Midnight with no distractions just heart talk. You can talk to him yourself. It is just that you are going to be very unsure of your answers given the newness of Midnight in your life and the seriousness of the issues. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Susan Hoffman To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down? Did your vet do bloodwork? What were the results? And do you truly trust this vet? Is Midnight eating, responding to petting? How much water is he drinking? Jennifer Madon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't responding to the antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not sprays everywhere) is because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for helping animals but says this is a one way street and there is pain and suffering at the end of the street. He suggests we say our goodbyes and put him down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to respond to this. We have only had him since the week after Christmas when he found us. Any suggestions? Jennifer
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
At 10:45 PM 3/26/2007, you wrote: I always added potassium to the fluid and used phosphorus binders,,,He had a great 3 more years and he was over 20 Kelly There is plenty you can do for kitties with CRF, diet, fluids and supplements for low potassium (most CRF kitties will eventually get low because they lose so much through their urine), aluminum phosphorus binders, because they will eventually have their phosphorus build up. Some kitties get pepcid for vomiting, some CRF kitties get tummy acid, epogen when their kidneys can no longer produce erythropoietin on their own. Theres more but these are just the thing we are dealing with or will be dealing with in the near future. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - Release Date: 3/24/2007
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
There is plenty you can do for kitties with CRF, diet, fluids and supplements for low potassium (most CRF kitties will eventually get low because they lose so much through their urine), aluminum phosphorus binders, because they will eventually have their phosphorus build up. Some kitties get pepcid for vomiting, some CRF kitties get tummy acid, epogen when their kidneys can no longer produce erythropoietin on their own. Theres more but these are just the thing we are dealing with or will be dealing with in the near future. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
PS. He probably isn't getting the right antibiotic, what is he getting and why is he getting them? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
Jennifer, What are Midnight's numbers, in particular these: Creatinine, BUN, Potassium, Phosphorus, HCT or PVC. My Fred is a kidney failure cat and there are different stages, with daily fluids, phosphorus binders and potassium supplements Fred's gotten better. Now if we can just get rid of this infection we'd be AOK!! I really take offense at what your vet suggested, is Midnight not eating, vomiting, does he have no interest in life? Why would your vet make such a suggestion? Many CRF (Chronic Renal Failure) kitties do very well with treatment. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
No. I don't think you have anything to worry about, (well at least no more than the rest of us that feel justified in being paranoid). Purina Cat Chow is not on the list. As far as I've been able to find out, dry food is not produced at Menu Foods and if there is another manufacturer using tainted ingredients, it hasn't come to light. I don't know that much about kidney problems, but I do know that they need lots of fluid to flush natural toxins. Haven't you been told to feed Midnight wet food rather than dry? Have you found yourself another vet yet? It doesn't sound like the one you have is doing all he/she can for Midnight. Unfortunately, there are many vets out there that will write off a felv pos cat or kitten, even when they have no symptoms of illness at all. Did you join the CRF list yet? I wish I could be of more help for Midnight's specific problems, but I'm just not that familiar with them. One thing I can tell you is to not listen to the opinions of someone that jumps to the conclusion that nothing can be done because he has felv and therefore won't recover. Nina Jennifer Madon wrote: Well, the latest food has been Purina Cat Chow. I didn't check on it because he eats dry food. I haven't even followed the recall since I heard it is in wet food. Should I worry? Nina wrote: I feel almost foolish asking such an obvious question right now, but what has Midnight been eating?? You must have considered the possibility that he's been eating tainted Menu Foods products by now, right? Nina Jennifer Madon wrote: Midnight is a stray that found us about 3 months ago. Best guess by Dr is that he is about 11 or 12 months old. So he is not elderly at all. I will try to change the litter type but the pee isn't the big issue. That is what took us to the Dr. but the renal failure is what brought me to this group. I just don't want this boy to suffer.
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
At 04:19 PM 3/26/2007, you wrote: do not think so Well, the latest food has been Purina Cat Chow. I didn't check on it because he eats dry food. I haven't even followed the recall since I heard it is in wet food. Should I worry? Nina wrote: I feel almost foolish asking such an obvious question right now, but what has Midnight been eating?? You must have considered the possibility that he's been eating tainted Menu Foods products by now, right? Nina Jennifer Madon wrote: Midnight is a stray that found us about 3 months ago. Best guess by Dr is that he is about 11 or 12 months old. So he is not elderly at all. I will try to change the litter type but the pee isn't the big issue. That is what took us to the Dr. but the renal failure is what brought me to this group. I just don't want this boy to suffer. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - Release Date: 3/24/2007
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
Well, the latest food has been Purina Cat Chow. I didn't check on it because he eats dry food. I haven't even followed the recall since I heard it is in wet food. Should I worry? Nina wrote: I feel almost foolish asking such an obvious question right now, but what has Midnight been eating?? You must have considered the possibility that he's been eating tainted Menu Foods products by now, right? Nina Jennifer Madon wrote: Midnight is a stray that found us about 3 months ago. Best guess by Dr is that he is about 11 or 12 months old. So he is not elderly at all. I will try to change the litter type but the pee isn't the big issue. That is what took us to the Dr. but the renal failure is what brought me to this group. I just don't want this boy to suffer.
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
I feel almost foolish asking such an obvious question right now, but what has Midnight been eating?? You must have considered the possibility that he's been eating tainted Menu Foods products by now, right? Nina Jennifer Madon wrote: Midnight is a stray that found us about 3 months ago. Best guess by Dr is that he is about 11 or 12 months old. So he is not elderly at all. I will try to change the litter type but the pee isn't the big issue. That is what took us to the Dr. but the renal failure is what brought me to this group. I just don't want this boy to suffer.
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
CRF (chronic renal failure) in cats is very treatable, unless it's extremely advanced. I would get a second opinion, and maybe a third one too. Check out my CRF webpage for lots of info on treatment and management: http://ucat.us/CRFPKDCats.html Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
If you have his bloodwork values, post them. If you don't, ask the vet if they'll fax them over or if you can come pick up a copy. We absolutely want to help you, but need to know those kidney values first. That will tell you if he's in renal failure. If you trust this doc, then he's probably going off those numbers for this diagnosis and he's probably right. But post them just in case. Does the vet say what is causing the renal failure, or is it just straight CRF (Chronic renal failure). Has he given your kitty any subQ fluids? If he's that bad, I would think he needs them. If he's CRF, I would strongly recommend you join the yahoo CRF group for guidance. They will know all the symptoms and be able to help you better. Also, here's a link to the just diagnosed page of the feline crf website, a great source of info.: http://www.felinecrf.org/just_diagnosed.htm Please keep us posted on Midnight. Good luck! :) Wendy --- Jennifer Madon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Midnight is a stray that found us about 3 months > ago. Best guess by Dr > is that he is about 11 or 12 months old. So he is > not elderly at all. > I will try to change the litter type but the pee > isn't the big issue. > That is what took us to the Dr. but the renal > failure is what brought me > to this group. I just don't want this boy to > suffer. > > wendy wrote: > > Jennifer, > > > > I have a CRF kitty who will be 18 in June. She > pees A > > LOT. Is Midnight peeing a lot? Is he drinking a > lot? > > Do you have his kidney values? What are they? I > > would ask a lot of questions before you pts. > Julie > > has been CRF for over a year, and she really isn't > > being treated for it because we're treating her > for > > hyperT, and besides, I don't think there's a lot > you > > can do for CRF other than diet. Someone please > > correct me here if I'm wrong. Julie is happy and > > purring and enjoying life even though she goes to > the > > bathroom a lot and we go through litter like > water. I > > have to keep her box really clean or she will go > > elsewhere, and sometimes still does, but not > often. > > How old is this boy? Renal failure usually > happens to > > CRF kitties who are elderly, or to cats who are > sick > > from something else that's shutting down their > organs. > > Which does Midnight fall under? > > > > :) > > Wendy > > > > --- Kelly L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> At 10:56 AM 3/26/2007, you wrote: > >> > >> > >> No No No Please rethink, my kitty in CRF did pee > all > >> over, he was > >> getting so much fluids, and he was an old > tomif > >> he is eating and > >> comfortable and happy...He made need to have is > >> roaming area > >> curtailed, but there are s many options, If > the > >> PTS is for > >> convenience so there is no pee on the floor that > is > >> a different > >> issue, but it sounds like a convenient thing > rather > >> than health thing, > >> my CRF cat was happy for 3 years after > >> diagnosis, > >> How can we help?? > >> Kelly > >> > >> > >> > >>> My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't > >>> > >> responding to the > >> > >>> antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not > >>> > >> sprays everywhere) is > >> > >>> because he is in renal failure. My vet is all > for > >>> > >> helping animals > >> > >>> but says this is a one way street and there is > pain > >>> > >> and suffering at > >> > >>> the end of the street. He suggests we say our > >>> > >> goodbyes and put him > >> > >>> down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to > >>> > >> respond to > >> > >>> this. We have only had him since the week after > >>> > >> Christmas when he > >> > >>> found us. Any suggestions? > >>> Jennifer > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 > - > >>> > >> Release Date: 3/24/2007 > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful > committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it > is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade > ~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > It's here! Your new message! > > Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. > > > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ > > > > > > > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
Midnight is a stray that found us about 3 months ago. Best guess by Dr is that he is about 11 or 12 months old. So he is not elderly at all. I will try to change the litter type but the pee isn't the big issue. That is what took us to the Dr. but the renal failure is what brought me to this group. I just don't want this boy to suffer. wendy wrote: Jennifer, I have a CRF kitty who will be 18 in June. She pees A LOT. Is Midnight peeing a lot? Is he drinking a lot? Do you have his kidney values? What are they? I would ask a lot of questions before you pts. Julie has been CRF for over a year, and she really isn't being treated for it because we're treating her for hyperT, and besides, I don't think there's a lot you can do for CRF other than diet. Someone please correct me here if I'm wrong. Julie is happy and purring and enjoying life even though she goes to the bathroom a lot and we go through litter like water. I have to keep her box really clean or she will go elsewhere, and sometimes still does, but not often. How old is this boy? Renal failure usually happens to CRF kitties who are elderly, or to cats who are sick from something else that's shutting down their organs. Which does Midnight fall under? :) Wendy --- Kelly L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 10:56 AM 3/26/2007, you wrote: No No No Please rethink, my kitty in CRF did pee all over, he was getting so much fluids, and he was an old tomif he is eating and comfortable and happy...He made need to have is roaming area curtailed, but there are s many options, If the PTS is for convenience so there is no pee on the floor that is a different issue, but it sounds like a convenient thing rather than health thing, my CRF cat was happy for 3 years after diagnosis, How can we help?? Kelly My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't responding to the antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not sprays everywhere) is because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for helping animals but says this is a one way street and there is pain and suffering at the end of the street. He suggests we say our goodbyes and put him down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to respond to this. We have only had him since the week after Christmas when he found us. Any suggestions? Jennifer -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - Release Date: 3/24/2007 "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
Well the pee is inconvenient but I would not pts for that reason. Heck, my 3 years old has peed on the floor many times but I still have him LOL! I just don't know much about this stuff and I don't want him to suffer. I have noticed that if he pees on something non-absorbent (like my suitcase) and I don't catch it, it dries with salt looking crystals. I know I need help but I don't know what help I need. I did try the comfort zone feliway stuff that this group recommended, I don't see much of a change but the dr said that was because of the renal failure. Kelly L wrote: At 10:56 AM 3/26/2007, you wrote: No No No Please rethink, my kitty in CRF did pee all over, he was getting so much fluids, and he was an old tomif he is eating and comfortable and happy...He made need to have is roaming area curtailed, but there are s many options, If the PTS is for convenience so there is no pee on the floor that is a different issue, but it sounds like a convenient thing rather than health thing, my CRF cat was happy for 3 years after diagnosis, How can we help?? Kelly My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't responding to the antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not sprays everywhere) is because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for helping animals but says this is a one way street and there is pain and suffering at the end of the street. He suggests we say our goodbyes and put him down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to respond to this. We have only had him since the week after Christmas when he found us. Any suggestions? Jennifer -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - Release Date: 3/24/2007
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
The vet did do some blood work. I do not know the exact numbers, but I do know that after 3 rounds of antibiotics, the wbc in his urine are extremely high (those are the drs words). I do trust Dr Proctor. He is a great doc and a cot lover too :) Midnight is eating, less but eating. He always wants to be held. I have not been measuring his water but he does drink. I guess I should measure it. I do know that over the last 3 to 4 days, I have not filled the bowl as often. Susan Hoffman wrote: Did your vet do bloodwork? What were the results? And do you truly trust this vet? Is Midnight eating, responding to petting? How much water is he drinking? */Jennifer Madon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't responding to the antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not sprays everywhere) is because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for helping animals but says this is a one way street and there is pain and suffering at the end of the street. He suggests we say our goodbyes and put him down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to respond to this. We have only had him since the week after Christmas when he found us. Any suggestions? Jennifer
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
Jennifer, I have a CRF kitty who will be 18 in June. She pees A LOT. Is Midnight peeing a lot? Is he drinking a lot? Do you have his kidney values? What are they? I would ask a lot of questions before you pts. Julie has been CRF for over a year, and she really isn't being treated for it because we're treating her for hyperT, and besides, I don't think there's a lot you can do for CRF other than diet. Someone please correct me here if I'm wrong. Julie is happy and purring and enjoying life even though she goes to the bathroom a lot and we go through litter like water. I have to keep her box really clean or she will go elsewhere, and sometimes still does, but not often. How old is this boy? Renal failure usually happens to CRF kitties who are elderly, or to cats who are sick from something else that's shutting down their organs. Which does Midnight fall under? :) Wendy --- Kelly L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 10:56 AM 3/26/2007, you wrote: > > > No No No Please rethink, my kitty in CRF did pee all > over, he was > getting so much fluids, and he was an old tomif > he is eating and > comfortable and happy...He made need to have is > roaming area > curtailed, but there are s many options, If the > PTS is for > convenience so there is no pee on the floor that is > a different > issue, but it sounds like a convenient thing rather > than health thing, > my CRF cat was happy for 3 years after > diagnosis, > How can we help?? > Kelly > > > >My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't > responding to the > >antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not > sprays everywhere) is > >because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for > helping animals > >but says this is a one way street and there is pain > and suffering at > >the end of the street. He suggests we say our > goodbyes and put him > >down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to > respond to > >this. We have only had him since the week after > Christmas when he > >found us. Any suggestions? > >Jennifer > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - > Release Date: 3/24/2007 > > > "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
At 10:56 AM 3/26/2007, you wrote: No No No Please rethink, my kitty in CRF did pee all over, he was getting so much fluids, and he was an old tomif he is eating and comfortable and happy...He made need to have is roaming area curtailed, but there are s many options, If the PTS is for convenience so there is no pee on the floor that is a different issue, but it sounds like a convenient thing rather than health thing, my CRF cat was happy for 3 years after diagnosis, How can we help?? Kelly My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't responding to the antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not sprays everywhere) is because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for helping animals but says this is a one way street and there is pain and suffering at the end of the street. He suggests we say our goodbyes and put him down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to respond to this. We have only had him since the week after Christmas when he found us. Any suggestions? Jennifer -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - Release Date: 3/24/2007
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
I would be wary of this diagnosis unless he has done a LOT of tests. I have two that are peeing everywhere and it is strictly behavioral. They are on Elavil, which helps a lot with the spraying. On 3/26/07, Susan Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Did your vet do bloodwork? What were the results? And do you truly trust this vet? Is Midnight eating, responding to petting? How much water is he drinking? *Jennifer Madon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't responding to the antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not sprays everywhere) is because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for helping animals but says this is a one way street and there is pain and suffering at the end of the street. He suggests we say our goodbyes and put him down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to respond to this. We have only had him since the week after Christmas when he found us. Any suggestions? Jennifer -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Joey! http://rescuties.chipin.com/joey-autoimmune-hemolytic-anemia
Re: Vet wants to put Midnight down?
Did your vet do bloodwork? What were the results? And do you truly trust this vet? Is Midnight eating, responding to petting? How much water is he drinking? Jennifer Madon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My vet says that the reason Midnight isn't responding to the antibiotics or the Feliway (he still pees not sprays everywhere) is because he is in renal failure. My vet is all for helping animals but says this is a one way street and there is pain and suffering at the end of the street. He suggests we say our goodbyes and put him down. I do not have a clue what to do or how to respond to this. We have only had him since the week after Christmas when he found us. Any suggestions? Jennifer
