Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats
Hi Carrie, I am so sorry to hear about your kitties. And I am praying they get better very soon. I had put a post up asking the group about raw food for FeLV cats but no one responded or commented about using that for their cats. I have read that for FeLV cats it might be a hazard because their systems cannot withstand any challenges from parasites. Also I have read that seafood is not recommended for FeLV cats so I do not feed any seafood to mine. I am trying to find a holistic vet to start my FeLV cat on a special diet but it's always best to be in contact with a vet when starting the home cook diet or a raw diet. If the cats are sick l would take them to vet so they can be treated right away, with FeLV early prevention is the best policy. Hope this helps, please send an update soon. Sent from my iPad On Mar 15, 2013, at 23:45, Carrie Rosenblatt oecb11...@yahoo.com wrote: hi. I saw this online - and wondered what you found out about raw food for FeLV cats. I had one at my apt for a night, and gave him homemade food, which was made with raw meat, but no pieces of meat was in what I gave him, just the grains and tuna and supplements, but I was wondering if the juice or residue from the raw meat could have hurt him, as he is very sick and getting worse. cr ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats
Hi, For several years I have primarily fed home made raw to my horde of cats (FELV + separated) and dogs, and have never had any food related problem whatsoever. They are in wonderful condition. I do mix in some fish as a treat every week or so, but it is canned tuna, mackerel, or sardines (all in water, not oil). I carefully follow a balanced recipe with no grains, starches, veggies. I make a point of being very well read on the publicized risks but I think they are very overstated - after all, raw is what cats evolved to eat over millions of years. Their digestive systems are short and acidic. Most vets are poorly trained on nutrition and much of that training comes via the pet food industry, which makes a bundle selling biologically inappropriate grain laden, carb heavy, overproccessed, overpriced crap. Of course they fear-monger about raw food, even for cats with perfectly healthy immune systems. As if dry food hasn't been proven to have frequent contamination with salmonella etc. No human has ever been shown to catch disease from raw food, but there are loads of cases of people getting it from commercial pet food. And that doesn't even begin to address the factors of salivary enzymes as the cat gnaws chunks of meat/bone, or the enzymes and nutrients destroyed by the disgusting rendering process, or the plastic and filth cooked in with the often rancid ingredients. Or the risk of tainted ingredients. Or the fact that cats are far less healthy overall than they were 50 years ago... just research the huge jump in diabetes, obesity, kidney disease, cancer, etc. Why do most cats now routinely die in their early teens at best, when they used to live so much longer? Why? If one believes that fresh, natural food is better for people than processed food, then why treat animals any different? I believe sick or immunocompromised animals need more nutrition, not less. They need the best quality food possible, and I think that is the food they evolved to eat. I wish I could feed whole prey, but it's unaffordable. On the other hand, homemade raw is made with far better ingredients yet costs so much less than commercial food - about 35 cents a day. Which do you trust more? Millions of years of mother nature's success, or the money-motivated pet food industry? Ok, getting off soapbox now. :) Kg On Saturday, March 16, 2013, Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carrie, I am so sorry to hear about your kitties. And I am praying they get better very soon. I had put a post up asking the group about raw food for FeLV cats but no one responded or commented about using that for their cats. I have read that for FeLV cats it might be a hazard because their systems cannot withstand any challenges from parasites. Also I have read that seafood is not recommended for FeLV cats so I do not feed any seafood to mine. I am trying to find a holistic vet to start my FeLV cat on a special diet but it's always best to be in contact with a vet when starting the home cook diet or a raw diet. If the cats are sick l would take them to vet so they can be treated right away, with FeLV early prevention is the best policy. Hope this helps, please send an update soon. Sent from my iPad On Mar 15, 2013, at 23:45, Carrie Rosenblatt oecb11...@yahoo.com wrote: hi. I saw this online - and wondered what you found out about raw food for FeLV cats. I had one at my apt for a night, and gave him homemade food, which was made with raw meat, but no pieces of meat was in what I gave him, just the grains and tuna and supplements, but I was wondering if the juice or residue from the raw meat could have hurt him, as he is very sick and getting worse. cr ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats
Hello Maryam and Carrie, I don't post much, but I feel I have to respond to your raw food comments. Without question, I believe a complete and balanced raw food diet is the most important thing you can give your cat. Some people just cannot be convinced of it, unfortunately. I have a 5 yr old felv+, Abbey. When I got her at 9 mos old, she was a complete mess, dying and starving, with severe diarrhea. Over the course of a month or 2, she got healthier, but still had diarrhea pretty bad. I had already started my other 3 cats on a raw diet and was also worried that the raw food may have consequences for her compromised immune system. At my wits end, I contacted Anne at catnutrition.org and she said she wouldn't hesitate to feed it to her. My regular vet also advised me to try it. I know there is a LOT of misinformation out there about raw diets. Anyway, I started her on the raw food, and ALL her problems disappeared...no more diarrhea whatsoever...amazing! I really don't think she'd be alive today without being on the raw diet. I could go on and on about the benefits of raw, but do yourself and your cat a favor and check out these websites: catnutrition.org and catinfo.org...they are awesome! They have recipes that I followed for years. I even started my own company selling this type of food. Good nutrition is the foundation of health...a good nutritionally complete raw diet is the absolute best thing you could possibly give your cat, next to love, of course! Also, no fish or grains of any kind are recommended for cats as will be explained on those 2 websites. Wishing your cats good health! Tracey On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carrie, I am so sorry to hear about your kitties. And I am praying they get better very soon. I had put a post up asking the group about raw food for FeLV cats but no one responded or commented about using that for their cats. I have read that for FeLV cats it might be a hazard because their systems cannot withstand any challenges from parasites. Also I have read that seafood is not recommended for FeLV cats so I do not feed any seafood to mine. I am trying to find a holistic vet to start my FeLV cat on a special diet but it's always best to be in contact with a vet when starting the home cook diet or a raw diet. If the cats are sick l would take them to vet so they can be treated right away, with FeLV early prevention is the best policy. Hope this helps, please send an update soon. Sent from my iPad On Mar 15, 2013, at 23:45, Carrie Rosenblatt oecb11...@yahoo.com wrote: hi. I saw this online - and wondered what you found out about raw food for FeLV cats. I had one at my apt for a night, and gave him homemade food, which was made with raw meat, but no pieces of meat was in what I gave him, just the grains and tuna and supplements, but I was wondering if the juice or residue from the raw meat could have hurt him, as he is very sick and getting worse. cr ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats
KG, very well said...I wholeheartedly agree! On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 11:51 AM, KG BarnCats kgbarnc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, For several years I have primarily fed home made raw to my horde of cats (FELV + separated) and dogs, and have never had any food related problem whatsoever. They are in wonderful condition. I do mix in some fish as a treat every week or so, but it is canned tuna, mackerel, or sardines (all in water, not oil). I carefully follow a balanced recipe with no grains, starches, veggies. I make a point of being very well read on the publicized risks but I think they are very overstated - after all, raw is what cats evolved to eat over millions of years. Their digestive systems are short and acidic. Most vets are poorly trained on nutrition and much of that training comes via the pet food industry, which makes a bundle selling biologically inappropriate grain laden, carb heavy, overproccessed, overpriced crap. Of course they fear-monger about raw food, even for cats with perfectly healthy immune systems. As if dry food hasn't been proven to have frequent contamination with salmonella etc. No human has ever been shown to catch disease from raw food, but there are loads of cases of people getting it from commercial pet food. And that doesn't even begin to address the factors of salivary enzymes as the cat gnaws chunks of meat/bone, or the enzymes and nutrients destroyed by the disgusting rendering process, or the plastic and filth cooked in with the often rancid ingredients. Or the risk of tainted ingredients. Or the fact that cats are far less healthy overall than they were 50 years ago... just research the huge jump in diabetes, obesity, kidney disease, cancer, etc. Why do most cats now routinely die in their early teens at best, when they used to live so much longer? Why? If one believes that fresh, natural food is better for people than processed food, then why treat animals any different? I believe sick or immunocompromised animals need more nutrition, not less. They need the best quality food possible, and I think that is the food they evolved to eat. I wish I could feed whole prey, but it's unaffordable. On the other hand, homemade raw is made with far better ingredients yet costs so much less than commercial food - about 35 cents a day. Which do you trust more? Millions of years of mother nature's success, or the money-motivated pet food industry? Ok, getting off soapbox now. :) Kg On Saturday, March 16, 2013, Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carrie, I am so sorry to hear about your kitties. And I am praying they get better very soon. I had put a post up asking the group about raw food for FeLV cats but no one responded or commented about using that for their cats. I have read that for FeLV cats it might be a hazard because their systems cannot withstand any challenges from parasites. Also I have read that seafood is not recommended for FeLV cats so I do not feed any seafood to mine. I am trying to find a holistic vet to start my FeLV cat on a special diet but it's always best to be in contact with a vet when starting the home cook diet or a raw diet. If the cats are sick l would take them to vet so they can be treated right away, with FeLV early prevention is the best policy. Hope this helps, please send an update soon. Sent from my iPad On Mar 15, 2013, at 23:45, Carrie Rosenblatt oecb11...@yahoo.com wrote: hi. I saw this online - and wondered what you found out about raw food for FeLV cats. I had one at my apt for a night, and gave him homemade food, which was made with raw meat, but no pieces of meat was in what I gave him, just the grains and tuna and supplements, but I was wondering if the juice or residue from the raw meat could have hurt him, as he is very sick and getting worse. cr ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats
Amen to that and great point about all the salmonella from commercial food! My house has been a great experiment in raw vs commercial. While feeding a raw food diet (same one as on catnutrition.org) my cats rarely had a hairball, never had crystals or any type of cystitis, had sleek coats and great muscle tone. And they were members of the clean plate club every single meal. While NOT feeding a raw diet, it's been hairballs the size of small mice, excessive shedding, dental disease, IBD, one poor guy with crystals, fussier eaters and too many cats with intestinal lymphoma. And more than one cat eating paper... Janine From: Tracey Shrout dtshr...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Sat, March 16, 2013 11:59:30 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats KG, very well said...I wholeheartedly agree! On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 11:51 AM, KG BarnCats kgbarnc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, For several years I have primarily fed home made raw to my horde of cats (FELV + separated) and dogs, and have never had any food related problem whatsoever. They are in wonderful condition. I do mix in some fish as a treat every week or so, but it is canned tuna, mackerel, or sardines (all in water, not oil). I carefully follow a balanced recipe with no grains, starches, veggies. I make a point of being very well read on the publicized risks but I think they are very overstated - after all, raw is what cats evolved to eat over millions of years. Their digestive systems are short and acidic. Most vets are poorly trained on nutrition and much of that training comes via the pet food industry, which makes a bundle selling biologically inappropriate grain laden, carb heavy, overproccessed, overpriced crap. Of course they fear-monger about raw food, even for cats with perfectly healthy immune systems. As if dry food hasn't been proven to have frequent contamination with salmonella etc. No human has ever been shown to catch disease from raw food, but there are loads of cases of people getting it from commercial pet food. And that doesn't even begin to address the factors of salivary enzymes as the cat gnaws chunks of meat/bone, or the enzymes and nutrients destroyed by the disgusting rendering process, or the plastic and filth cooked in with the often rancid ingredients. Or the risk of tainted ingredients. Or the fact that cats are far less healthy overall than they were 50 years ago... just research the huge jump in diabetes, obesity, kidney disease, cancer, etc. Why do most cats now routinely die in their early teens at best, when they used to live so much longer? Why? If one believes that fresh, natural food is better for people than processed food, then why treat animals any different? I believe sick or immunocompromised animals need more nutrition, not less. They need the best quality food possible, and I think that is the food they evolved to eat. I wish I could feed whole prey, but it's unaffordable. On the other hand, homemade raw is made with far better ingredients yet costs so much less than commercial food - about 35 cents a day. Which do you trust more? Millions of years of mother nature's success, or the money-motivated pet food industry? Ok, getting off soapbox now. :) Kg On Saturday, March 16, 2013, Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carrie, I am so sorry to hear about your kitties. And I am praying they get better very soon. I had put a post up asking the group about raw food for FeLV cats but no one responded or commented about using that for their cats. I have read that for FeLV cats it might be a hazard because their systems cannot withstand any challenges from parasites. Also I have read that seafood is not recommended for FeLV cats so I do not feed any seafood to mine. I am trying to find a holistic vet to start my FeLV cat on a special diet but it's always best to be in contact with a vet when starting the home cook diet or a raw diet. If the cats are sick l would take them to vet so they can be treated right away, with FeLV early prevention is the best policy. Hope this helps, please send an update soon. Sent from my iPad On Mar 15, 2013, at 23:45, Carrie Rosenblatt oecb11...@yahoo.com wrote: hi. I saw this online - and wondered what you found out about raw food for FeLV cats. I had one at my apt for a night, and gave him homemade food, which was made with raw meat, but no pieces of meat was in what I gave him, just the grains and tuna and supplements, but I was wondering if the juice or residue from the raw meat could have hurt him, as he is very sick and getting worse. cr ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats
I'd sure LOVE to know how to prepare and feed a home made diet to my cats. The one time I purchased raw food (frozen, at the farm center) they turned up their noses at it. They are mega-fussy. I feel fortunate to have hit on a dry food they will (mostly) eat. Lucky Cat - who has crystals in his bladder sometimes - won't eat the CD canned food from the vet (which I mix with the canned food he loves). It's a worrisome chore, feeding these five cats. Sigh. Thanks for any advice. Bonnie From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of KG BarnCats Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:52 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Carrie Rosenblatt Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] raw food FeLV pos cats Hi, For several years I have primarily fed home made raw to my horde of cats (FELV + separated) and dogs, and have never had any food related problem whatsoever. They are in wonderful condition. I do mix in some fish as a treat every week or so, but it is canned tuna, mackerel, or sardines (all in water, not oil). I carefully follow a balanced recipe with no grains, starches, veggies. I make a point of being very well read on the publicized risks but I think they are very overstated - after all, raw is what cats evolved to eat over millions of years. Their digestive systems are short and acidic. Most vets are poorly trained on nutrition and much of that training comes via the pet food industry, which makes a bundle selling biologically inappropriate grain laden, carb heavy, overproccessed, overpriced crap. Of course they fear-monger about raw food, even for cats with perfectly healthy immune systems. As if dry food hasn't been proven to have frequent contamination with salmonella etc. No human has ever been shown to catch disease from raw food, but there are loads of cases of people getting it from commercial pet food. And that doesn't even begin to address the factors of salivary enzymes as the cat gnaws chunks of meat/bone, or the enzymes and nutrients destroyed by the disgusting rendering process, or the plastic and filth cooked in with the often rancid ingredients. Or the risk of tainted ingredients. Or the fact that cats are far less healthy overall than they were 50 years ago... just research the huge jump in diabetes, obesity, kidney disease, cancer, etc. Why do most cats now routinely die in their early teens at best, when they used to live so much longer? Why? If one believes that fresh, natural food is better for people than processed food, then why treat animals any different? I believe sick or immunocompromised animals need more nutrition, not less. They need the best quality food possible, and I think that is the food they evolved to eat. I wish I could feed whole prey, but it's unaffordable. On the other hand, homemade raw is made with far better ingredients yet costs so much less than commercial food - about 35 cents a day. Which do you trust more? Millions of years of mother nature's success, or the money-motivated pet food industry? Ok, getting off soapbox now. :) Kg On Saturday, March 16, 2013, Maryam Ulomi ava...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carrie, I am so sorry to hear about your kitties. And I am praying they get better very soon. I had put a post up asking the group about raw food for FeLV cats but no one responded or commented about using that for their cats. I have read that for FeLV cats it might be a hazard because their systems cannot withstand any challenges from parasites. Also I have read that seafood is not recommended for FeLV cats so I do not feed any seafood to mine. I am trying to find a holistic vet to start my FeLV cat on a special diet but it's always best to be in contact with a vet when starting the home cook diet or a raw diet. If the cats are sick l would take them to vet so they can be treated right away, with FeLV early prevention is the best policy. Hope this helps, please send an update soon. Sent from my iPad On Mar 15, 2013, at 23:45, Carrie Rosenblatt oecb11...@yahoo.com wrote: hi. I saw this online - and wondered what you found out about raw food for FeLV cats. I had one at my apt for a night, and gave him homemade food, which was made with raw meat, but no pieces of meat was in what I gave him, just the grains and tuna and supplements, but I was wondering if the juice or residue from the raw meat could have hurt him, as he is very sick and getting worse. cr ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food
Thanks for the info. Tracey... Fortunately I already have a heavy duty grinder. Lorrie On 11-19, Tracey Shrout wrote: Lorrie, Yes, I think raw is the best also. If you go to those websites, they give you step-by-step instructions on how to make it. You have to be careful to follow the recommended proportions. It does take a little time to convince the cats that this is what they should be eating. One of mine, a 12 year old dry food 'addict' took almost 2 months to completely change to this diet. The others were much easier to convince. I just mixed it with a good canned food, progressively adding more raw. They will eventually eat it by itself and love it, you just have to be determined. Occasionally, I do give some canned food for variety, or when I run out of the raw. On those websites, they also explain how to grind it -- you will have to buy a grinder, and yes, you should use real bones. Its daunting at first, but gets easier everytime you make it. Tracey ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food
LOL, 'lemon fresh' isn't always a great thing, eh Debbie (COL) Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle Philo To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org From: patricia.a.elk...@gsk.com Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:55:19 -0500 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food A funny story- my husband suddenly decided that he would feed a raw diet to the cats and invested a lot of money in meat and supplements according to a good recipe he found. Not one cat out of about 12 would touch it. Turns out he had purchased (a big!) bottle of lemon-flavored fish oil to put in it I don't think they liked the lemony freshness! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-in-action/social-network-basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_2:092009 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food
Lorrie, Yes, I think raw is the best also. If you go to those websites, they give you step-by-step instructions on how to make it. You have to be careful to follow the recommended proportions. It does take a little time to convince the cats that this is what they should be eating. One of mine, a 12 year old dry food 'addict' took almost 2 months to completely change to this diet. The others were much easier to convince. I just mixed it with a good canned food, progressively adding more raw. They will eventually eat it by itself and love it, you just have to be determined. Occasionally, I do give some canned food for variety, or when I run out of the raw. On those websites, they also explain how to grind it -- you will have to buy a grinder, and yes, you should use real bones. Its daunting at first, but gets easier everytime you make it. Tracey On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Lorrie felineres...@kvinet.com wrote: I think a raw food diet is best for cats, as it's certainly more natural, with none of the by-products and other awful stuff they add to cat food. However only one of my cats will eat it. The others just sniff it and walk away. I'd be interested in hearing what your diet consists of. Are there any particular proportions you use of the chicken, bones, organ meat, egg, vitamins etc, and can bone meal be used instead of bones? I don't know how I'd grind bones. Lorrie On 11-15, Tracey Shrout wrote: Anna, I will give you my personal opinion dealing with severe diahrrea in 2 of my kitties, one of which is +. After many trips to the vet and having many tests for parasites and doses of parasitic medicines, antibiotics, trying fortiflora (which does help some), nothing completely resolved their issues until I started feeding my cats what I feel is the best food possible -- a raw homemade diet of chicken and bones (and organ meat, egg, and vitamins, etc). Lots of people are totally against feeding raw, but I have 5 very healthy kitties who've been eating it for almost 2 years now with remarkable changes in all of them. No more diahrrea for my kitties, and most of the time is doesn't even have an odor (no kidding!) I will never go back to dry, and I use only a good quality grain-free can food if necessary. Cats with diahrrea are naturally going to be dehydrated, so you really need to be giving them water WITH their food -- a canned food. If the homemade diet is not an option for you though, just try a grain free diet. Wellness has a good canned one, and there are a few grain-free dry foods as well. Most cats merely 'tolerate' grains, and other cats cannot. It is not natural for them to eat grains. Oh, and LOTS of cats throw up. No, it is not good, but it is very common. My cats don't throw up anymore (other than hairballs) EVER! I spent tons of time researching making my own food because of so many health issiues w/my kitties -- now I don't have any issues at all. If you want to learn more, check out catnutrition.com and catinfo.com. If you follow the recipes to a T'', you will be amazed! Good luck, and I hope they get better! Tracey ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food
A funny story- my husband suddenly decided that he would feed a raw diet to the cats and invested a lot of money in meat and supplements according to a good recipe he found. Not one cat out of about 12 would touch it. Turns out he had purchased (a big!) bottle of lemon-flavored fish oil to put in it I don't think they liked the lemony freshness! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food
Hi Lorrie It took me a long time to switch my cat (Felv+) to raw. She refused any raw that I first offered her and rejected cat food that had any raw in it. I have two dogs that I have fed raw to since they were puppies. I discovered that when I was preparing their food my cat would jump up and begin eating whatever I was serving them, including organic buffalo, beef, lamb ...not just chicken and turkey. By letting her eat from their bowls she developed a taste for it and will now eat it from her own bowl. It is not always fool proof. For whatever reason she will sometimes reject raw so I use Petguard (Whole Foods) or Wellness (both wet) as back up. I am convinced that a species appropriate diet is really the way to go. It is not easy but when you realize what the by products used in commercial pet food are, it is very motivating. Jane On Nov 19, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Tracey Shrout wrote: Lorrie, Yes, I think raw is the best also. If you go to those websites, they give you step-by-step instructions on how to make it. You have to be careful to follow the recommended proportions. It does take a little time to convince the cats that this is what they should be eating. One of mine, a 12 year old dry food 'addict' took almost 2 months to completely change to this diet. The others were much easier to convince. I just mixed it with a good canned food, progressively adding more raw. They will eventually eat it by itself and love it, you just have to be determined. Occasionally, I do give some canned food for variety, or when I run out of the raw. On those websites, they also explain how to grind it -- you will have to buy a grinder, and yes, you should use real bones. Its daunting at first, but gets easier everytime you make it. Tracey On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Lorrie felineres...@kvinet.com wrote: I think a raw food diet is best for cats, as it's certainly more natural, with none of the by-products and other awful stuff they add to cat food. However only one of my cats will eat it. The others just sniff it and walk away. I'd be interested in hearing what your diet consists of. Are there any particular proportions you use of the chicken, bones, organ meat, egg, vitamins etc, and can bone meal be used instead of bones? I don't know how I'd grind bones. Lorrie On 11-15, Tracey Shrout wrote: Anna, I will give you my personal opinion dealing with severe diahrrea in 2 of my kitties, one of which is +. After many trips to the vet and having many tests for parasites and doses of parasitic medicines, antibiotics, trying fortiflora (which does help some), nothing completely resolved their issues until I started feeding my cats what I feel is the best food possible -- a raw homemade diet of chicken and bones (and organ meat, egg, and vitamins, etc). Lots of people are totally against feeding raw, but I have 5 very healthy kitties who've been eating it for almost 2 years now with remarkable changes in all of them. No more diahrrea for my kitties, and most of the time is doesn't even have an odor (no kidding!) I will never go back to dry, and I use only a good quality grain-free can food if necessary. Cats with diahrrea are naturally going to be dehydrated, so you really need to be giving them water WITH their food -- a canned food. If the homemade diet is not an option for you though, just try a grain free diet. Wellness has a good canned one, and there are a few grain-free dry foods as well. Most cats merely 'tolerate' grains, and other cats cannot. It is not natural for them to eat grains. Oh, and LOTS of cats throw up. No, it is not good, but it is very common. My cats don't throw up anymore (other than hairballs) EVER! I spent tons of time researching making my own food because of so many health issiues w/my kitties -- now I don't have any issues at all. If you want to learn more, check out catnutrition.com and catinfo.com. If you follow the recipes to a T'', you will be amazed! Good luck, and I hope they get better! Tracey ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food
We have been feeding our kittens raw since bringing them to our household five months ago. We live in Southern California and are blessed to have a pet store very close that sells several different varieties of frozen raw diets. We have settled (for the time being!) on RadCat, which is available in chicken, turkey and lamb...all offered in various sizes so you don't have to invest a real bundle on something they might not like. It's very convenient and they love it. We can't help but feel that their lack of G/I problems and healthy appetites is in some portion due to the raw diet. It's also very high in moisture, which is helpful as well. Sara -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jane Lyons Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:23 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food Hi Lorrie It took me a long time to switch my cat (Felv+) to raw. She refused any raw that I first offered her and rejected cat food that had any raw in it. I have two dogs that I have fed raw to since they were puppies. I discovered that when I was preparing their food my cat would jump up and begin eating whatever I was serving them, including organic buffalo, beef, lamb ...not just chicken and turkey. By letting her eat from their bowls she developed a taste for it and will now eat it from her own bowl. It is not always fool proof. For whatever reason she will sometimes reject raw so I use Petguard (Whole Foods) or Wellness (both wet) as back up. I am convinced that a species appropriate diet is really the way to go. It is not easy but when you realize what the by products used in commercial pet food are, it is very motivating. Jane On Nov 19, 2009, at 4:45 PM, Tracey Shrout wrote: Lorrie, Yes, I think raw is the best also. If you go to those websites, they give you step-by-step instructions on how to make it. You have to be careful to follow the recommended proportions. It does take a little time to convince the cats that this is what they should be eating. One of mine, a 12 year old dry food 'addict' took almost 2 months to completely change to this diet. The others were much easier to convince. I just mixed it with a good canned food, progressively adding more raw. They will eventually eat it by itself and love it, you just have to be determined. Occasionally, I do give some canned food for variety, or when I run out of the raw. On those websites, they also explain how to grind it -- you will have to buy a grinder, and yes, you should use real bones. Its daunting at first, but gets easier everytime you make it. Tracey On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Lorrie felineres...@kvinet.com wrote: I think a raw food diet is best for cats, as it's certainly more natural, with none of the by-products and other awful stuff they add to cat food. However only one of my cats will eat it. The others just sniff it and walk away. I'd be interested in hearing what your diet consists of. Are there any particular proportions you use of the chicken, bones, organ meat, egg, vitamins etc, and can bone meal be used instead of bones? I don't know how I'd grind bones. Lorrie On 11-15, Tracey Shrout wrote: Anna, I will give you my personal opinion dealing with severe diahrrea in 2 of my kitties, one of which is +. After many trips to the vet and having many tests for parasites and doses of parasitic medicines, antibiotics, trying fortiflora (which does help some), nothing completely resolved their issues until I started feeding my cats what I feel is the best food possible -- a raw homemade diet of chicken and bones (and organ meat, egg, and vitamins, etc). Lots of people are totally against feeding raw, but I have 5 very healthy kitties who've been eating it for almost 2 years now with remarkable changes in all of them. No more diahrrea for my kitties, and most of the time is doesn't even have an odor (no kidding!) I will never go back to dry, and I use only a good quality grain-free can food if necessary. Cats with diahrrea are naturally going to be dehydrated, so you really need to be giving them water WITH their food -- a canned food. If the homemade diet is not an option for you though, just try a grain free diet. Wellness has a good canned one, and there are a few grain-free dry foods as well. Most cats merely 'tolerate' grains, and other cats cannot. It is not natural for them to eat grains. Oh, and LOTS of cats throw up. No, it is not good, but it is very common. My cats don't throw up anymore (other than hairballs) EVER! I spent tons of time researching making my own food because of so many health issiues w/my kitties -- now I don't have any issues at all. If you want to learn more, check out catnutrition.com and catinfo.com. If you follow the recipes to a T'', you will be amazed! Good luck, and I hope
Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food
I have to chime in on the raw food. I started cooking for Dixie after the cat/dog food scare a few years ago and no longer feed my kept cats any thing with grain. The ferals get Purina dry and canned (I don't know of any recalls involving their products). I discovered Primal Raw and served it to Dixie a lot and to Copper and Thomas several times a week. They get cooked chicken frequently, especially for snacks. Dixie did wonderfully on it and so are the the boys. It comes in one oz cubes that can be thawed and served with or without veggies added (Dixie liked spinach and/or broccoli chopped and added). I'm vegetarian and find this easier than grinding. There are other frozen brands available too. The Primal Raw is species specific. It is more expensive and, with two large male cats, I am rethinking the home-made issue. Dixie was Felv+. The boys aren't. On Nov 19, 2009, at 3:45 PM, Tracey Shrout wrote: Lorrie, Yes, I think raw is the best also. If you go to those websites, they give you step-by-step instructions on how to make it. You have to be careful to follow the recommended proportions. It does take a little time to convince the cats that this is what they should be eating. One of mine, a 12 year old dry food 'addict' took almost 2 months to completely change to this diet. The others were much easier to convince. I just mixed it with a good canned food, progressively adding more raw. They will eventually eat it by itself and love it, you just have to be determined. Occasionally, I do give some canned food for variety, or when I run out of the raw. On those websites, they also explain how to grind it -- you will have to buy a grinder, and yes, you should use real bones. Its daunting at first, but gets easier everytime you make it. Tracey On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Lorrie felineres...@kvinet.com wrote: I think a raw food diet is best for cats, as it's certainly more natural, with none of the by-products and other awful stuff they add to cat food. However only one of my cats will eat it. The others just sniff it and walk away. I'd be interested in hearing what your diet consists of. Are there any particular proportions you use of the chicken, bones, organ meat, egg, vitamins etc, and can bone meal be used instead of bones? I don't know how I'd grind bones. Lorrie On 11-15, Tracey Shrout wrote: Anna, I will give you my personal opinion dealing with severe diahrrea in 2 of my kitties, one of which is +. After many trips to the vet and having many tests for parasites and doses of parasitic medicines, antibiotics, trying fortiflora (which does help some), nothing completely resolved their issues until I started feeding my cats what I feel is the best food possible -- a raw homemade diet of chicken and bones (and organ meat, egg, and vitamins, etc). Lots of people are totally against feeding raw, but I have 5 very healthy kitties who've been eating it for almost 2 years now with remarkable changes in all of them. No more diahrrea for my kitties, and most of the time is doesn't even have an odor (no kidding!) I will never go back to dry, and I use only a good quality grain-free can food if necessary. Cats with diahrrea are naturally going to be dehydrated, so you really need to be giving them water WITH their food -- a canned food. If the homemade diet is not an option for you though, just try a grain free diet. Wellness has a good canned one, and there are a few grain-free dry foods as well. Most cats merely 'tolerate' grains, and other cats cannot. It is not natural for them to eat grains. Oh, and LOTS of cats throw up. No, it is not good, but it is very common. My cats don't throw up anymore (other than hairballs) EVER! I spent tons of time researching making my own food because of so many health issiues w/my kitties -- now I don't have any issues at all. If you want to learn more, check out catnutrition.com and catinfo.com. If you follow the recipes to a T'', you will be amazed! Good luck, and I hope they get better! Tracey ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Raw Food
I think a raw food diet is best for cats, as it's certainly more natural, with none of the by-products and other awful stuff they add to cat food. However only one of my cats will eat it. The others just sniff it and walk away. I'd be interested in hearing what your diet consists of. Are there any particular proportions you use of the chicken, bones, organ meat, egg, vitamins etc, and can bone meal be used instead of bones? I don't know how I'd grind bones. Lorrie On 11-15, Tracey Shrout wrote: Anna, I will give you my personal opinion dealing with severe diahrrea in 2 of my kitties, one of which is +. After many trips to the vet and having many tests for parasites and doses of parasitic medicines, antibiotics, trying fortiflora (which does help some), nothing completely resolved their issues until I started feeding my cats what I feel is the best food possible -- a raw homemade diet of chicken and bones (and organ meat, egg, and vitamins, etc). Lots of people are totally against feeding raw, but I have 5 very healthy kitties who've been eating it for almost 2 years now with remarkable changes in all of them. No more diahrrea for my kitties, and most of the time is doesn't even have an odor (no kidding!) I will never go back to dry, and I use only a good quality grain-free can food if necessary. Cats with diahrrea are naturally going to be dehydrated, so you really need to be giving them water WITH their food -- a canned food. If the homemade diet is not an option for you though, just try a grain free diet. Wellness has a good canned one, and there are a few grain-free dry foods as well. Most cats merely 'tolerate' grains, and other cats cannot. It is not natural for them to eat grains. Oh, and LOTS of cats throw up. No, it is not good, but it is very common. My cats don't throw up anymore (other than hairballs) EVER! I spent tons of time researching making my own food because of so many health issiues w/my kitties -- now I don't have any issues at all. If you want to learn more, check out catnutrition.com and catinfo.com. If you follow the recipes to a T'', you will be amazed! Good luck, and I hope they get better! Tracey ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] raw food diet
just found out my Annie has it in her bone marrow. asked vet if should switch food and he said that might cause more problems because it could cause stress if she does not like it. said just feed good, high quality food. dorlis Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm new to the forum and here to help my father with his felv positive kitten. She is on EVO, but was wondering if a raw food diet would be better for her immunity? Any experience with an optimal diet or feedback would be great. Thanks, Saehwa Sent from my iPhone ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: raw food
Thanks to Nina and Michelle, I changed Inky's diet to raw turkey as often as every 4 to 5 hours...He is 19 and has IBD...with all sorts of problems such as loose stool and vomiting...since the new diet...all of this has stopped...He gets a GI supplement daily and 1/4 to 1/2 pred every day or so.. Sometimes I mix some I/D or fancy feast in it cause since he is 19, I thought he deserved something tasty.. He also has hyperthyroidism, but when he got the ringworm, I stopped all the tapazole as it seemed to be causing him some problems...I am going to start him back on a lower dose of it. His hair was coming out in big handfuls so he might have been getting too much...After a few weeks of it, I will have the thyroid test run again...I hate to take him to the Dr. since he has never been but only a few times in his 19 yrs...He seems to enjoy the ride though as it seems like an adventure for him.. Sorry to get off the main subject, but I think raw food is good for them as long as you use the proper supps to go with it... Kerry, Bandy and Inky Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
Re: raw food
Also, just a thought - I am not sure if people generally keep their freezers down to 0F, anyway. I have never checked my own. Another reason I am wondering is because I think I was once told that being in the freezer doesn't even necessarily inactivate the microbes, but merely slows them down. I assume, based on the information below, that maybe that is because the freezers aren't as low as 0. Krishttp://www.spazstory.zoomshare.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:02 PM Subject: Re: raw food Just for the record though - freezing does not kill parasites. This according to the USDA Safe Food Handling Fact Sheet: Does Freezing Destroy Bacteria Parasites?Freezing to 0 °F inactivates any microbes -- bacteria, yeasts and molds - - present in food. Once thawed, however, these microbes can again become active, multiplying under the right conditions to levels that can lead to foodborne illness. Since they will then grow at about the same rate as microorganisms on fresh food, you must handle thawed items as you would any perishable food.Trichina and other parasites can be destroyed by sub-zero freezing temperatures. However, very strict government-supervised conditions must be met. It is not recommended to rely on home freezing to destroy trichina. Thorough cooking will destroy all parasites. Freezing and Food Safety Even if it's parasite free - if kitty doesn't scarf it down and it sits there - it's going to get nasty. I'm not at all against Raw - nor am I debating it's nutritional value. Cats have eaten raw in the wild for years. They've also gotten a lot of parasites from it in the wild and have a considerably shorter life span. It's just something to think about and I'm sure all of us want all the info we can get. In a message dated 6/20/2006 1:02:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Most meat that you buy in the grocery is totally frozen when it get to the market so I don't think that is a real issue. Even the locker I buy my meat at, the poultry is frozen solid. I think you need to be smart when feeding your animalany diet. you canalso get just as much if not more bacteria from kibble or canned as from raw. Before anyone just goes out and starts feeding any diet they need to read all they can on both sides of the issue and decide for themselves. if any of you would like websites for raw diets or book titles, please e-mail me on the private side and I'll be happy to help you out. I just don't like to see false information out there. Kiley Dozier-Bosanko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The argument I've heard agaisnt raw food, is not about the nutritional value of a raw meat diet, it's the fact that poultry produced in the US is not intended for raw consumption, it's not kept cold enough or thoroughly screened for parasytes, because producers assume it will be cooked. I just wonder if maybe it's worth that risk in order to feed my kitties a great diet that they love, or not because they are already compromised. Also as much as I hear about parasytes being a major issue, I've never heard of an actual pet getting them from raw food.From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: raw foodDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:27:35 -0700I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated.So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites.--Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.comRoxane,Horton, Iowa Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come.
Re: raw food
All I can tell you is my own experience with raw food and my positive Bailey. I switched all my guys to raw and Bailey my positive loved it, he really thrived and put on about 2 pounds which we all know is good for a positive since the first symptom of any problem is generally loss of appetite. I did just lose him last month to pancreatic cancer which my vet feels had nothing to do with his positive status. He was a very chubby and healthy 11 pounds after I started feeding him raw, this weight gain was within the space of about 8 months. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: raw food
I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated. So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: raw food
PS. On my last post, then again when cats were first domesticated they were still eating rats and mice for the most part so it hasn't been that long that they have been getting the canned and dry food we feed them now. I have heard good arguments for both sides. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: raw food
Can I ask, why not Pork? Are you in the UK?Roxane[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I wouldn't fee any raw PORK... other than that, I doubt the vet's have muchreal scientific basis behind their reluctance to advocate raw diets.PhaewrynPLEASE Adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!!http://ucat.us/adopt.htmlDONATE: We could really use a power saw (for construction), a digital camera (forpictures) and HOMES for CATS!-- No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
Re: raw food
The argument I've heard agaisnt raw food, is not about the nutritional value of a raw meat diet, it's the fact that poultry produced in the US is not intended for raw consumption, it's not kept cold enough or thoroughly screened for parasytes, because producers assume it will be cooked. I just wonder if maybe it's worth that risk in order to feed my kitties a great diet that they love, or not because they are already compromised. Also as much as I hear about parasytes being a major issue, I've never heard of an actual pet getting them from raw food. From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: raw food Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:27:35 -0700 I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated. So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: raw food
Most meat that you buy in the grocery is totally frozen when it get to the market so I don't think that is a real issue. Even the locker I buy my meat at, the poultry is frozen solid. I think you need to be smart when feeding your animalany diet. you canalso get just as much if not more bacteria from kibble or canned as from raw. Before anyone just goes out and starts feeding any diet they need to read all they can on both sides of the issue and decide for themselves. if any of you would like websites for raw diets or book titles, please e-mail me on the private side and I'll be happy to help you out. I just don't like to see false information out there.RoxaneKiley Dozier-Bosanko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The argument I've heard agaisnt raw food, is not about the nutritional value of a raw meat diet, it's the fact that poultry produced in the US is not intended for raw consumption, it's not kept cold enough or thoroughly screened for parasytes, because producers assume it will be cooked. I just wonder if maybe it's worth that risk in order to feed my kitties a great diet that they love, or not because they are already compromised. Also as much as I hear about parasytes being a major issue, I've never heard of an actual pet getting them from raw food.From: Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: raw foodDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:27:35 -0700I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated.So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites.--Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.comRoxane,Horton, Iowa Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
Re: raw food
Most meat that you buy in the grocery is totally frozen when it get to the market so I don't think that is a real issue. Even the locker I buy my meat at, the poultry is frozen solid. I think you need to be smart when feeding your animalany diet. you canalso get just as much if not more bacteria from kibble or canned as from raw. Before anyone just goes out and starts feeding any diet they need to read all they can on both sides of the issue and decide for themselves. if any of you would like websites for raw diets or book titles, please e-mail me on the private side and I'll be happy to help you out. I just don't like to see false information out there.Kiley Dozier-Bosanko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The argument I've heard agaisnt raw food, is not about the nutritional value of a raw meat diet, it's the fact that poultry produced in the US is not intended for raw consumption, it's not kept cold enough or thoroughly screened for parasytes, because producers assume it will be cooked. I just wonder if maybe it's worth that risk in order to feed my kitties a great diet that they love, or not because they are already compromised. Also as much as I hear about parasytes being a major issue, I've never heard of an actual pet getting them from raw food.From: Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: raw foodDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:27:35 -0700I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated.So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites.--Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.comRoxane,Horton, Iowa Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Re: raw food
Most meat that you buy in the grocery is totally frozen when it get to the market so I don't think that is a real issue. Even the locker I buy my meat at, the poultry is frozen solid. I think you need to be smart when feeding your animalany diet. you canalso get just as much if not more bacteria from kibble or canned as from raw. Before anyone just goes out and starts feeding any diet they need to read all they can on both sides of the issue and decide for themselves. if any of you would like websites for raw diets or book titles, please e-mail me on the private side and I'll be happy to help you out. I just don't like to see false information out there.Kiley Dozier-Bosanko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The argument I've heard agaisnt raw food, is not about the nutritional value of a raw meat diet, it's the fact that poultry produced in the US is not intended for raw consumption, it's not kept cold enough or thoroughly screened for parasytes, because producers assume it will be cooked. I just wonder if maybe it's worth that risk in order to feed my kitties a great diet that they love, or not because they are already compromised. Also as much as I hear about parasytes being a major issue, I've never heard of an actual pet getting them from raw food.From: Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: raw foodDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:27:35 -0700I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated.So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites.--Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.comRoxane,Horton, Iowa Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus theres much more to come.
Re: raw food
Just for the record though - freezing does not kill parasites. This according to the USDA Safe Food Handling Fact Sheet: Does Freezing Destroy Bacteria Parasites?Freezing to 0 °F inactivates any microbes -- bacteria, yeasts and molds - - present in food. Once thawed, however, these microbes can again become active, multiplying under the right conditions to levels that can lead to foodborne illness. Since they will then grow at about the same rate as microorganisms on fresh food, you must handle thawed items as you would any perishable food.Trichina and other parasites can be destroyed by sub-zero freezing temperatures. However, very strict government-supervised conditions must be met. It is not recommended to rely on home freezing to destroy trichina. Thorough cooking will destroy all parasites. Freezing and Food Safety Even if it's parasite free - if kitty doesn't scarf it down and it sits there - it's going to get nasty. I'm not at all against Raw - nor am I debating it's nutritional value. Cats have eaten raw in the wild for years. They've also gotten a lot of parasites from it in the wild and have a considerably shorter life span. It's just something to think about and I'm sure all of us want all the info we can get. In a message dated 6/20/2006 1:02:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Most meat that you buy in the grocery is totally frozen when it get to the market so I don't think that is a real issue. Even the locker I buy my meat at, the poultry is frozen solid. I think you need to be smart when feeding your animalany diet. you canalso get just as much if not more bacteria from kibble or canned as from raw. Before anyone just goes out and starts feeding any diet they need to read all they can on both sides of the issue and decide for themselves. if any of you would like websites for raw diets or book titles, please e-mail me on the private side and I'll be happy to help you out. I just don't like to see false information out there. Kiley Dozier-Bosanko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The argument I've heard agaisnt raw food, is not about the nutritional value of a raw meat diet, it's the fact that poultry produced in the US is not intended for raw consumption, it's not kept cold enough or thoroughly screened for parasytes, because producers assume it will be cooked. I just wonder if maybe it's worth that risk in order to feed my kitties a great diet that they love, or not because they are already compromised. Also as much as I hear about parasytes being a major issue, I've never heard of an actual pet getting them from raw food.From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: raw foodDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:27:35 -0700I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated.So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites.--Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.comRoxane,Horton, Iowa Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come.
Re: raw food
I would hope none of us would let raw meat lay around, that is not the correct way to feed raw. You can have your thought but I have the proof at home it works.Roxane[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Just for the record though - freezing does not kill parasites. This according to the USDA Safe Food Handling Fact Sheet:Does Freezing Destroy Bacteria Parasites?Freezing to 0 °F inactivates any microbes -- bacteria, yeasts and molds - - present in food. Once thawed, however, these microbes can again become active, multiplying under the right conditions to levels that can lead to foodborne illness. Since they will then grow at about the same rate as microorganisms on fresh food, you must handle thawed items as you would any perishable food.Trichina and other parasites can be destroyed by sub-zero freezing temperatures. However, very strict government-supervised conditions must be met. It is not recommended to rely on home freezing to destroy trichina. Thorough cooking will destroy all parasites.Freezing and Food Safety Even if it's parasite free - if kitty doesn't scarf it down and it sits there - it's going to get nasty.I'm not at all against Raw - nor am I debating it's nutritional value. Cats have eaten raw in the wild for years. They've also gotten a lot of parasites from it in the wild and have a considerably shorter life span. It's just something to think about and I'm sure all of us want all the info we can get. In a message dated 6/20/2006 1:02:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Most meat that you buy in the grocery is totally frozen when it get to the market so I don't think that is a real issue. Even the locker I buy my meat at, the poultry is frozen solid. I think you need to be smart when feeding your animalany diet. you canalso get just as much if not more bacteria from kibble or canned as from raw. Before anyone just goes out and starts feeding any diet they need to read all they can on both sides of the issue and decide for themselves. if any of you would like websites for raw diets or book titles, please e-mail me on the private side and I'll be happy to help you out. I just don't like to see false information out there.Kiley Dozier-Bosanko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The argument I've heard agaisnt raw food, is not about the nutritional value of a raw meat diet, it's the fact that poultry produced in the US is not intended for raw consumption, it's not kept cold enough or thoroughly screened for parasytes, because producers assume it will be cooked. I just wonder if maybe it's worth that risk in order to feed my kitties a great diet that they love, or not because they are already compromised. Also as much as I hear about parasytes being a major issue, I've never heard of an actual pet getting them from raw food.From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: raw foodDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:27:35 -0700I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated.So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites.--Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.comRoxane,Horton, Iowa Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus thereâs much more to come. Roxane,Horton, Iowa Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Re: raw food
why thank you - and i'm very glad you've had good results. In a message dated 6/20/2006 4:12:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would hope none of us would let raw meat lay around, that is not the correct way to feed raw. You can have your thought but I have the proof at home it works. Roxane[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just for the record though - freezing does not kill parasites. This according to the USDA Safe Food Handling Fact Sheet: Does Freezing Destroy Bacteria Parasites?Freezing to 0 °F inactivates any microbes -- bacteria, yeasts and molds - - present in food. Once thawed, however, these microbes can again become active, multiplying under the right conditions to levels that can lead to foodborne illness. Since they will then grow at about the same rate as microorganisms on fresh food, you must handle thawed items as you would any perishable food.Trichina and other parasites can be destroyed by sub-zero freezing temperatures. However, very strict government-supervised conditions must be met. It is not recommended to rely on home freezing to destroy trichina. Thorough cooking will destroy all parasites. Freezing and Food Safety Even if it's parasite free - if kitty doesn't scarf it down and it sits there - it's going to get nasty. I'm not at all against Raw - nor am I debating it's nutritional value. Cats have eaten raw in the wild for years. They've also gotten a lot of parasites from it in the wild and have a considerably shorter life span. It's just something to think about and I'm sure all of us want all the info we can get. In a message dated 6/20/2006 1:02:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Most meat that you buy in the grocery is totally frozen when it get to the market so I don't think that is a real issue. Even the locker I buy my meat at, the poultry is frozen solid. I think you need to be smart when feeding your animalany diet. you canalso get just as much if not more bacteria from kibble or canned as from raw. Before anyone just goes out and starts feeding any diet they need to read all they can on both sides of the issue and decide for themselves. if any of you would like websites for raw diets or book titles, please e-mail me on the private side and I'll be happy to help you out. I just don't like to see false information out there. Kiley Dozier-Bosanko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The argument I've heard agaisnt raw food, is not about the nutritional value of a raw meat diet, it's the fact that poultry produced in the US is not intended for raw consumption, it's not kept cold enough or thoroughly screened for parasytes, because producers assume it will be cooked. I just wonder if maybe it's worth that risk in order to feed my kitties a great diet that they love, or not because they are already compromised. Also as much as I hear about parasytes being a major issue, I've never heard of an actual pet getting them from raw food.From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: raw foodDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:27:35 -0700I personally am still not 100% sure about raw food. You get the argument that this is what cats eat in the wild, well like it or not, they aren't wild anymore and have under gone changes due to years of being domesticated.So, I can only go by my own experience and ours was good, no problems with parasites.--Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.comRoxane,Horton, Iowa Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there’s much more to come. Roxane,Horton, Iowa Do you Yahoo!?Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Re: raw food
Okay, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. I've posted it enough for everyone to know that feeding Gypsy raw food saved her life. I was also as careful as I could be in selecting meat from a source, (I bought it at Whole Foods and paid a premium price for it), that told me it was as free from hormones and additives and that it had been handled in the safest manner possible before it got to my door. Even with all my precautions, there is a chance that it could have contained parasites, or contaminants that would have made Gypsy sick. I didn't have a lot of options and when I made the decision to try it with Gypsy I did it with a prayer that it would be safe and help her recover. Well, it did. We all have to make difficult decisions and we all have to live with the consequences of those decisions. We do the best we can and support each other through it all. I wasn't aware that freezing simply "inactivates" microbes, bacteria, yeasts and molds, (hardly little pests!), and I'm glad that Elisabeth took the time to research it and share this info with us. It may be the medium of email communication, but the last exchange seemed to be getting a tad testy. This is the nicest list I've ever been on and I think one of the reasons it is, is because we all face the emotional turmoil that serious illness can stir up. We come here to learn, share, comfort and support each other in an atmosphere of acceptance. I for one would like to maintain the feeling of this list as a safe refuge from the pettiness of the outside world and continue to allow conflicting opinions without the fear of it leading to hurt feelings or hostility. Perhaps that's more than 2 cents worth, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why thank you - and i'm very glad you've had good results. In a message dated 6/20/2006 4:12:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would hope none of us would let raw meat lay around, that is not the correct way to feed raw. You can have your thought but I have the proof at home it works. Roxane
Re: raw food
Pork is very commonly known to carry trichinosis: http://www.austincc.edu/microbio/2704k/trich.htm I'm in north america, in Vermont. Phaewryn PLEASE Adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!!http://ucat.us/adopt.html DONATE: We could really use a power saw (for construction), a digital camera (for pictures) and HOMES for CATS! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006
Re: raw food
I've also fed raw in the past...Nature's Variety frozen raw chicken and turkey patties...just thaw and serve! I never had a problem with anyone getting sick, etc., but I probably only fed it consistently for 3 or 4 months. One of my boys really dug the stuff and would eat it whenever it was available (he was FeLV+), but the others, like with any food I give them, got bored with it and I had to switch to something else. You'd actually be surprised at the number of bacteria that's been found on regular ol' dry food! ;) But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. --Chief Dan George The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long... --Blade Runner - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:55 pm Subject: Re: raw food To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Okay, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. I've posted it enough for everyone to know that feeding Gypsy raw food saved her life. I was also as careful as I could be in selecting meat from a source, (I bought it at Whole Foods and paid a premium price for it), that told me it was as free from hormones and additives and that it had been handled in the safest manner possible before it got to my door. Even with all my precautions, there is a chance that it could have contained parasites, or contaminants that would have made Gypsy sick. I didn't have a lot of options and when I made the decision to try it with Gypsy I did it with a prayer that it would be safe and help her recover. Well, it did. We all have to make difficult decisions and we all have to live with the consequences of those decisions. We do the best we can and support each other through it all. I wasn't aware that freezing simply inactivates microbes, bacteria, yeasts and molds, (hardly little pests!), and I'm glad that Elisabeth took the time to research it and share this info with us. It may be the medium of email communication, but the last exchange seemed to be getting a tad testy. This is the nicest list I've ever been on and I think one of the reasons it is, is because we all face the emotional turmoil that serious illness can stir up. We come here to learn, share, comfort and support each other in an atmosphere of acceptance. I for one would like to maintain the feeling of this list as a safe refuge from the pettiness of the outside world and continue to allow conflicting opinions without the fear of it leading to hurt feelings or hostility. Perhaps that's more than 2 cents worth, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why thank you - and i'm very glad you've had good results. In a message dated 6/20/2006 4:12:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would hope none of us would let raw meat lay around, that is not the correct way to feed raw. You can have your thought but I have the proof at home it works. Roxane
Re: raw food
Thank you all for sharing your experiences and information on raw food, I know it is a controversal subject and I am grateful for any additional information. It seems like everyone who has given it to their kitties had a good experience. I find it difficult to go against the recommendations of my vet and so many other educated people, and I really needed to hear the other side. Mio has lost so much weight in the last two weeks, I can't help but be worried sick. She eats the canned food it just isn't with the same gusto as raw food, and I'm feeling desperate to put weight back on her, I just don't know how long I have before she gets sick again. When I first went to the vet a week and a half ago, they told me she would die that night. She's actually doing really good right now, but I'm having trouble letting go of what the vets said. I am grateful to have found you all. It has given me so much hope to read your stories, and to know I have somewhere else to go for information. There is so much conflicting information, it's nice to have a place to discuss it and share anecdotal evidence. Thanks again Kiley From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: raw food Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:56:11 -0700 Okay, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. I've posted it enough for everyone to know that feeding Gypsy raw food saved her life. I was also as careful as I could be in selecting meat from a source, (I bought it at Whole Foods and paid a premium price for it), that told me it was as free from hormones and additives and that it had been handled in the safest manner possible before it got to my door. Even with all my precautions, there is a chance that it could have contained parasites, or contaminants that would have made Gypsy sick. I didn't have a lot of options and when I made the decision to try it with Gypsy I did it with a prayer that it would be safe and help her recover. Well, it did. We all have to make difficult decisions and we all have to live with the consequences of those decisions. We do the best we can and support each other through it all. I wasn't aware that freezing simply inactivates microbes, bacteria, yeasts and molds, (hardly little pests!), and I'm glad that Elisabeth took the time to research it and share this info with us. It may be the medium of email communication, but the last exchange seemed to be getting a tad testy. This is the nicest list I've ever been on and I think one of the reasons it is, is because we all face the emotional turmoil that serious illness can stir up. We come here to learn, share, comfort and support each other in an atmosphere of acceptance. I for one would like to maintain the feeling of this list as a safe refuge from the pettiness of the outside world and continue to allow conflicting opinions without the fear of it leading to hurt feelings or hostility. Perhaps that's more than 2 cents worth, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why thank you - and i'm very glad you've had good results. In a message dated 6/20/2006 4:12:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would hope none of us would let raw meat lay around, that is not the correct way to feed raw. You can have your thought but I have the proof at home it works. Roxane
Re: raw food
Thank you Nina - no testiness intended. I am not against feeding raw -and very much foranything that saves lives! I do, however, want to make informed decisions and this list is a great place to exchange information and ideas. We weigh the risks and benefitsof anycourse of treatment we choose. I just hope that it isn't a problem here to contribute toexamining all sides of an issue. Has nothing to do with anyone personally. I am here to learn and to keep from loosing my girl. The last thing I want to do is to make someone elsefeel bad who is going through thisterrible disease. It's not about us - it's about the cats. In a message dated 6/20/2006 6:55:50 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. I've posted it enough for everyone to know that feeding Gypsy raw food saved her life. I was also as careful as I could be in selecting meat from a source, (I bought it at Whole Foods and paid a premium price for it), that told me it was as free from hormones and additives and that it had been handled in the safest manner possible before it got to my door. Even with all my precautions, there is a chance that it could have contained parasites, or contaminants that would have made Gypsy sick. I didn't have a lot of options and when I made the decision to try it with Gypsy I did it with a prayer that it would be safe and help her recover. Well, it did. We all have to make difficult decisions and we all have to live with the consequences of those decisions. We do the best we can and support each other through it all. I wasn't aware that freezing simply "inactivates" microbes, bacteria, yeasts and molds, (hardly little pests!), and I'm glad that Elisabeth took the time to research it and share this info with us. It may be the medium of email communication, but the last exchange seemed to be getting a tad testy. This is the nicest list I've ever been on and I think one of the reasons it is, is because we all face the emotional turmoil that serious illness can stir up. We come here to learn, share, comfort and support each other in an atmosphere of acceptance. I for one would like to maintain the feeling of this list as a safe refuge from the pettiness of the outside world and continue to allow conflicting opinions without the fear of it leading to hurt feelings or hostility. Perhaps that's more than 2 cents worth, Nina[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why thank you - and i'm very glad you've had good results. In a message dated 6/20/2006 4:12:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would hope none of us would let raw meat lay around, that is not the correct way to feed raw. You can have your thought but I have the proof at home it works. Roxane
Re: raw food
My vet explained that carnivores have a stronger stomach acid.. That's why they can digest food without chewing it... Also that will kill the bacteria in raw food... I guess the risk could be that a sick cat might not have the strong acid that a healthy cat has... Tad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've also fed raw in the past...Nature's Variety frozen raw chicken and turkey patties...just thaw and serve! I never had a problem with anyone getting sick, etc., but I probably only fed it consistently for 3 or 4 months. One of my boys really dug the stuff and would eat it whenever it was available (he was FeLV+), but the others, like with any food I give them, got bored with it and I had to switch to something else. You'd actually be surprised at the number of bacteria that's been found on regular ol' dry food! ;) "But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine de Saint-Exupry "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --Chief Dan George "The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long..." --Blade Runner - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:55 pm Subject: Re: raw food To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Okay, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. I've posted it enough for everyone to know that feeding Gypsy raw food saved her life. I was also as careful as I could be in selecting meat from a source, (I bought it at Whole Foods and paid a premium price for it), that told me it was as free from hormones and additives and that it had been handled in the safest manner possible before it got to my door. Even with all my precautions, there is a chance that it could have contained parasites, or contaminants that would have made Gypsy sick. I didn't have a lot of options and when I made the decision to try it with Gypsy I did it with a prayer that it would be safe and help her recover. Well, it did. We all have to make difficult decisions and we all have to live with the consequences of those decisions. We do the best we can and support each other through it all. I wasn't aware that freezing simply "inactivates" microbes, bacteria, yeasts and molds, (hardly little pests!), and I'm glad that Elisabeth took the time to research it and share this info with us. It may be the medium of email communication, but the last exchange seemed to be getting a tad testy. This is the nicest list I've ever been on and I think one of the reasons it is, is because we all face the emotional turmoil that serious illness can stir up. We come here to learn, share, comfort and support each other in an atmosphere of acceptance. I for one would like to maintain the feeling of this list as a safe refuge from the pettiness of the outside world and continue to allow conflicting opinions without the fear of it leading to hurt feelings or hostility. Perhaps that's more than 2 cents worth, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: why thank you - and i'm very glad you've had good results. In a message dated 6/20/2006 4:12:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would hope none of us would let raw meat lay around, that is not the correct way to feed raw. You can have your thought but I have the proof at home it works. Roxane
RE: raw food
I personally you should continue to keep her on raw food diet - there is a way to you can prepare your raw meat so that it will eliminate any potential risks of feeding raw meat to your kitty.. one thing you can use it to soak the meat with grapefruit seed oil - But I give raw meat to some of my cats and have had any problems.. but traditional vets are going to be against raw meat --- but they are not nutritionist.. so they don't necessary know what's the best things to feed them.. sometime we give too much and too many credit to vets.. and expect them to know everything.. they don't.. we have to educate ourselves to find out what's the best thing to feed them.. I personally think that if a cat would eat it.. there is nothing better than giving them raw meat..as long as you add other supplement that your kitty need along with it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kiley Dozier-Bosanko Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 4:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: raw food My kitty Mio was diagnosed with FeLV a week and a half ago. She had been on a raw food diet prior to this, but I took her off because I was told that there is a high risk of parasytes. We have been to 3 different vets in the last week and I've spoken to countless specialists on the phone and they ALL said that raw food was a risky diet for a cat with a compromised immune system. Has anyone actually had a problem with this (parasytes from raw food)? Thank you, Kiley
Re: raw food
I feed raw to my two positives. I was worried about it too, but my hand was forced when one of my positives, Lucy, got IBD and stopped being able to tolerate even the best canned food. I read about raw and decided to try it, and she is so much better on it. I still gave canned to my other positive, Patches, until recently she started insisting on eating the raw. Michelle
Re: raw food
I'm sorry to hear about Milo but IMO there is nothing better than a raw diet. Why fill your cat with junk food when raw is the most natural thing you can do. You have won a battle that I fight with most of my cats, you won to get Milo it eat raw, please don't take that a way from him or yourself. Roxane,Horton, Iowa Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
Re: raw food
Well, I wouldn't fee any raw PORK... other than that, I doubt the vet's have much real scientific basis behind their reluctance to advocate raw diets. Phaewryn PLEASE Adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html DONATE: We could really use a power saw (for construction), a digital camera (for pictures) and HOMES for CATS! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006
Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Hi Michelle, When my was anemic and wouldn't eat I tried raw she really didnt like it most of my cats do not some do. My homepathic vet told me that I should not feed raw to a fiv/felv cat. That it's better to blanch it and feed semi raw. Now I know some vets say yes and some say no. Depending on the vet. You may try and blanch 1st and see if that helps and work up to less and less cooked, you know try fully cooked then semi and then raw and mix it together also I did that when I wanted to get a cat to eat raw if they don't raw then little by little less and less cooked. Carla
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Michelle, As Tonya said, I think the amount of food you describe, while not hardy, is enough that I wouldn't be too terribly concerned. She is eating and that's good. The behavior you describe, going through different flavors until you hit just the right one, was so reminiscent of what I've gone through with Gypsy, that it made me cringe. I worked so hard on my AC skills so I wouldn't waste so much food! Luckily my dogs happily ate all of her left-overs. I can get turkey breast, just like chicken breast, fresh from my regular grocery store. The kind with the bone and skin, is juicier and Gypsy prefers it. I have also bought turkey breast only frozen from the grocery store. These are just the two breasts still attached, no legs, no wings. I'm sorry, I know this is probably really grossing you out. The turkey breasts are smaller than a whole turkey and are sort of shaped like a deformed ball. The ones my store sells are salted, and while I was concerned about the salt, Gypsy thought they were delicious. Marilyn suggested boiling the turkey and using the broth. This is a good idea, but it makes the meat tougher and you lose nutrients in the broth, (of course if she'll lap the broth, that's just fine). I cook the turkey by placing the breast on a small rack in a shallow Pyrex baking dish. Put a glass of filtered water in the bottom of the dish, (replenish the water if it simmers out) and cover the breast with aluminum wrap. Bake it in the oven at 350 for approx 15 minutes per pound. Undercooked is better than overcooked, (more tender). Remove the skin and extra fat before serving it to Her Highness. The water catches all the juices and is a very nutritious broth that you can use as well. Pour it into a wide mouth glass container, and put it in the fridge. When it cools, the fat will rise to the top and you can scrape it off and discard it, or add tiny amounts to your dog's food a bit at a time. The deli counter meats are usually seasoned too much and can have additives, and/or preservatives she doesn't need. It's also much more expensive, if this is going to be an ongoing thing. Cats are such a sensitive judge of freezer burn, and meat gone off, that they notice before we do. If meat looks off to you, it probably is. I'd go back and smack that butcher that told you meat that has been frozen that long is probably fine. I wouldn't give her the non-meat prescription diet. My cats love those horrible, junk filled Whiskas Temptation treats, that doesn't mean they should eat them on a regular basis. Stick to foods that are as close to their natural state, foods that aren't processed. I understand completely why thoughts of cancer keep surfacing. Get them out of your brain if you can. There are so many times when I begin to freak out and then I realize that this same behavior in a healthy cat would not get a second glance. You are hyper vigilant for good reason, but do your best to imagine a strong healthy result instead of the reverse. We've all learned how effective our good thoughts and prayers are for our babies on the list. I truly believe the combined energy of this group brings about miracles. Keep that in mind when you are focusing on the worst case outcome and imagine the opposite instead! Our thoughts are very powerful. Much love to you and yours, Nina
Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it). My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome. I started her on nux vomica last night also. Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it). My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome. I started her on nux vomica last night also. Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Lucy actually does really well with turkey, which is why I picked turkey for her raw diet. She does not do as well with other meats. She is not doing badly from the turkey diet either, just decided she is through with it and won't touch it now. I am glad your cat does so well on EVO. It looks like that may be all that Lucy will eat that I am willing to feed her right now. Do you think if it were going to cause diarrhea it would have done so by now? She had the EVO at about 6 pm, I think-- so 15 hours ago. I just gave her another small handful of it but am afraid to give her more than that right now, but it is is all she will eat besides baby food at the moment. Thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I really believe it would have caused any problems it was going to cause by now. It is a wonderful food. Kitty eats it instead of various wet foods most of the time, especially when she thinks I have added supplements to them. Kitty was diagnosed with cancer almost a year ago and will not takeanything the alternative vet or her vet wants her to take. Forcing her is too traumatic so I am letting her have her was. By the way, sherefused to eat turkey and the wet foods that contained it when it started giving her problems. I guess she knows what is best for her. Watch Lucy's fluid intake if she is not used to dry food just to make sure she is getting enough. Good luck. PS My alternative vet recommends Apple Pectin fordiarrhea and my regular vet recommends a pinch of Metamucil (unflavored) or phylum. It adds bulk and really has helped with other animals, both dogs and cats. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Lucy actually does really well with turkey, which is why I picked turkey for her raw diet. She does not do as well with other meats. She is not doing badly from the turkey diet either, just decided she is through with it and won't touch it now. I am glad your cat does so well on EVO. It looks like that may be all that Lucy will eat that I am willing to feed her right now. Do you think if it were going to cause diarrhea it would have done so by now? She had the EVO at about 6 pm, I think-- so 15 hours ago. I just gave her another small handful of it but am afraid to give her more than that right now, but it is is all she will eat besides baby food at the moment. Thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Can she eat cooked turkey? Try the turkey and cooked rice (a subset of Dr. Pitcairn's diet for diarrhea). Gloria On Jan 23, 2006, at 8:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucy actually does really well with turkey, which is why I picked turkey for her raw diet. She does not do as well with other meats. She is not doing badly from the turkey diet either, just decided she is through with it and won't touch it now. I am glad your cat does so well on EVO. It looks like that may be all that Lucy will eat that I am willing to feed her right now. Do you think if it were going to cause diarrhea it would have done so by now? She had the EVO at about 6 pm, I think-- so 15 hours ago. I just gave her another small handful of it but am afraid to give her more than that right now, but it is is all she will eat besides baby food at the moment. Thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age.
RE: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I say, watch her closely, but continue to give her what she likes to eat for now and see what happens. Michelle, I really think that Lucy will go back to eat raw turkey food again in a while Most of the cats I have always have stopped eating their favorite food, whatever they were, if I gave them every day for a long time.. but when I stop giving them for a while and give them again in a month or two later,, they love to eat again.. I think that especially with cats, variation is the key so that they dont get sick of eating the food which are really good for them please keep us posted with the progress. Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it). My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome. I started her on nux vomica last night also. Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Hi Michelle, As with Lucy, the only thing that helped Gypsy regain formed stools was a raw diet. When Lucy was having elimination problems, I was going to suggest switching from TC Instincts to adding your own sups, that way you have more control monitoring whatever may be causing the constipation/vomiting problem. One of the ladies on the IBD list also encountered vomiting problems when she added bone meal to her cat's diet. You just don't know what's going to cause problems, until the problems start. As far as her refusing raw... I was close to panic stricken when Gypsy had a relapse and then refused her raw food. Since it was the only thing that seemed to help her in the past, I worried that she would once again wither away. I don't think there is a cat that is picker, or has more issues with food than Gypsy, (she now refuses to eat unless someone is petting her). When I started her on raw, the only thing she would eat was raw salmon, then raw duck. Finally I was able to mix duck and salmon together. She lasted a couple of months on that diet and then one day refused to eat either of them. What I have found with her is that if she has even a slight GI problem, whatever she has been eating is crossed off her list, she just won't touch it again, sometimes for months. She will also refuse ground cooked/raw turkey, but will hungrily eat oven roasted turkey breast. White meat is okay, but dark meat is too rich. There have been times that she would only eat grocery store bbq chicken. There was one frightening week where all I could get her to consume was warmed goats milk. Salmon used to be her very favorite food on earth, (I tamed her with the help of salmon fillet!), after one of her relapses, she wouldn't even eat anything with minute amounts of salmon oil mixed in. It took her months to enjoy salmon fillet again. EVO made her violently ill the first time she ate a couple of morsels, she can now eat it without a problem as long as it doesn't constitute more than 5, or 10% of her intake. I've sent you the cooked turkey diet that Gypsy is currently having success on. If she has any problems, or the food is more than a couple days in the fridge, she'll refuse to eat it. When that happens, I'll give her plain cooked turkey, (I'm talking oven roasted, not ground and sauteed). The fresher the better. Straight out of the oven, still warm, is her favorite. I'll also supplement her with gm and turkey baby food. After a day, or two, she'll go back to her fully supplemented turkey diet. She'd probably eat raw again at this point, but as long as I have a diet that's working, (and that she'll eat!), I'm not going to mess with success. While I understand why you've chosen to fast Lucy, however, I would never attempt it with Gypsy. Food and eating is not a priority with her and if she stops eating for a day, it's so much harder to get her started again. Offer Lucy her favorite non processed food, warmed is best. Don't worry about "balancing" the diet until she has begun eating, then slowly reintroduce supplements, beginning with those sups that have the least amount of taste/texture and those that you have deemed most important to her health. Because it is a priority that Gypsy eat anything, rather than nothing, I have also had the opportunity to see that her stools will firm once her she has eaten a consistent diet, (the same protein), for more than a few days. I've learned not to panic, as long as she continues to eat. I do think that if Lucy were going to have a reaction to the EVO/canned food, it would have been almost immediate. I have found that keeping the diet simple and consistent is the most important factor in controlling Gypsy's IBD. If Lucy's eating the canned, and it's a good quality canned, I'd keep her on that and avoid the EVO. Of course, if she seems to be doing okay on both the EVO and the canned, then I don't see any reason to restrict her intake by denying it. I would follow her lead. If she wants to eat one thing over another, (as long as it's not toxic to her system), I'd let her have what she wants. So far, and my opinion keeps changing, the most important thing is to get Gypsy eating the same diet long enough for her system to adjust to it. Believe me, I know what a heart wrenching trial it can be to dote on a finicky cat with GI problems. Hang in there, trust her instincts, as well as your own and give whatever diet she's on a long enough chance for her system to stabilize. With support and sympathy, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wante
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it).My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome.I started her on nux vomica last night also.Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Michelle,If I were you I would offer what she'll take, but try mixing in little bits of what you want her to eat that she's not eating. I don't think there's been enough time for it to make her sick yet if it's going to. For that reason I'd keep giving her small amounts at a time. I wouldn't give her a full meal until you're sure the evo, canned, raw, whatever is not going to make her sick. That's my 2 cents.I'd give her what she wants to keep her eating. Just mix in some of what she wants and some of what you want her to have, and don't give her too much at a time. Have you ever heard of doing the 'allergy' diet where you only give one thing for like 3 weeks and then add another item to the diet, and then another, etc I read about it when dealing with my ibd cats. I would try to get her to take as little a variety as possible since you're dealing with ibd. At least until you figure out what ingredient besides chicken is causing the problem.t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it).My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome.I started her on nux vomica last night also.Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
It depends on how much she ate. If she's had enough to eat there would have been time for her to get sick. If you're feeding her sparingly it might take a little longer. An overful stomach can lead to diarrhea and/or vomiting just by itself.. That's why I would err on the side of caution rather than risking her getting sick again and 'undoing' your progress.. Again, I'm no expert. t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Lucy actually does really well with turkey, which is why I picked turkey for her raw diet. She does not do as well with other meats. She is not doing badly from the turkey diet either, just decided she is through with it and won't touch it now. I am glad your cat does so well on EVO. It looks like that may be all that Lucy will eat that I am willing to feed her right now. Do you think if it were going to cause diarrhea it would have done so by now? She had the EVO at about 6 pm, I think-- so 15 hours ago. I just gave her another small handful of it but am afraid to give her more than that right now, but it is is all she will eat besides baby food at the moment.Thanks, MichelleIn a message dated 1/23/2006 8:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs. You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold. Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one of my positives has gone through a period of hardly eating. Patches, due to her teeth it turned out, and Ginger because I had run out of her current food obsession (Pro Plan chicken and rice)-- when I bought more of that she started eating normally again! So now it is Lucy. I am hoping this passes as well. I swear it is just the constant fear of lymphoma that makes me anxious whenever they act finicky. It was the first sign for each of my three who died of lymphoma. But I know it can be a sign of lots of other things, including obstinacy! Thanks again, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 1:35:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do think that if Lucy were going to have a reaction to the EVO/canned food, it would have been almost immediate. I have found that keeping the diet simple and consistent is the most important factor in controlling Gypsy's IBD. If Lucy's eating the canned, and it's a good quality canned, I'd keep her on that and avoid the EVO. Of course, if she seems to be doing okay on both the EVO and the canned, then I don't see any reason to restrict her intake by denying it. I would follow her lead. If she wants to eat one thing over another, (as long as it's not toxic to her system), I'd let her have what she wants. So far, and my opinion keeps changing, the most important thing is to get Gypsy eating the same diet long enough for her system to adjust to it.
RE: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Michelle, I can so emphasize what you go through --since most of my cats are corona virus positive (and some are very high titer), everytime, they ran a high fever over 105, I was so convinced that they had FIP and they are goin to die as you know FIP is so fatal - and after I went through the same experience with about a dozen times with eacht time, different cat, I started not to pay attention to FIP anymore- Michelle, I know that you consntantly think of lymphma, but I really have a good feeling that this will pass soon with Lucy, too -- again, Ginger goes through this not eating once every few months,, but it has passed each time. Michelle, keep a good thought for Lucy, and stay positive for Lucy,, a positive thought WILL bring a positive energy --- I will be sending a positive thought to Lucy and Pacthes and to you! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:36 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs. You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold. Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one of my positives has gone through a period of hardly eating. Patches, due to her teeth it turned out, and Ginger because I had run out of her current food obsession (Pro Plan chicken and rice)-- when I bought more of that she started eating normally again! So now it is Lucy. I am hoping this passes as well. I swear it is just the constant fear of lymphoma that makes me anxious whenever they act finicky. It was the first sign for each of my three who died of lymphoma. But I know it can be a sign of lots of other things, including obstinacy! Thanks again, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 1:35:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do think that if Lucy were going to have a reaction to the EVO
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Re cooking turkey: Try boiling it. I'm vegetarian and I hate cooking for the cats but they aren't so...Try to keep it a little rare. I don't feed mine turkey for reasons previously mentioned but if it is working for you have at it. This should also give you a broth that may help. The last time Kitty went on a hunger strike I got some highly salted ham and boiled a little for her (they sell little bits for biscuits or seasoning here). I think the odor but, more likely, the salt broke the fast. Saltines or other salty things help me when I have an upset stomach so I tried that reasoning on her. Once she had a little bit she felt like eating again and didn't want the really salty ham. She does like deli ham sometimes. Again, it seems to settle her stomach. Her liver is enlarged and pushing on the stomach which isn't helping things at all. These are just thoughts. I hope they help. I also suggest you try Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect which might help. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs. You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold. Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one of my positives has gone through a period of hardly eating. Patches, due to her teeth it turned out, and Ginger because I had run out of her current food obsession (Pro Plan chicken and rice)-- when I bought more of that she started eating normally again! So now it is Lucy. I am hoping
RE: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Michelle, have you also tried V-B complex injection, which has helped increased appetite for some of my babies. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MarylynSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:11 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Re cooking turkey: Try boiling it. I'm vegetarian and I hate cooking for the cats but they aren't so...Try to keep it a little rare. I don't feed mine turkey for reasons previously mentioned but if it is working for you have at it. This should also give you a broth that may help. The last time Kitty went on a hunger strike I got some highly salted ham and boiled a little for her (they sell little bits for biscuits or seasoning here). I think the odor but, more likely, the salt broke the fast. Saltines or other salty things help me when I have an upset stomach so I tried that reasoning on her. Once she had a little bit she felt like eating again and didn't want the really salty ham. She does like deli ham sometimes. Again, it seems to settle her stomach. Her liver is enlarged and pushing on the stomach which isn't helping things at all. These are just thoughts. I hope they help. I also suggest you try Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect which might help. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs. You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold. Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I don't know Michelle. Most of my cats are on the rather 'plump' side, and they don't eat that much. Are you sure she normally eats lots more than this, or are you just maybe paying more attention to what she's eating since she's been sick? A jar of baby food, a spoon of wet food, and even two small handfuls of EVO should be enough that she's not particularly hungry in my opinion.I put out 5 small, ceramic bowls of kibble for 7 cats every day. And they don't even eat all of that before the next day. And most of them are 'obese' like their mom, lol, but it doesn't really seem like they eat that much. It has to work out to maybe a measuring cup per cat, if it's even that much. And 2 of mine are over 15 pounds! When I give wet food (on rare occasions. I know I should do it more.) I typically split one can of royal canin between all 7 cats. If I open a second there are 2 or 3 who will eat till they puke, but the rest have had enough after their spoonful.And the litterboxes are full every day like everyone is eating and drinking way more than it seems like a cat would.You know Lucy best, but it sounds like she's doing ok right now as long as she's not getting sick, and she's eating something.Inhale, exhale! Even if something's wrong you're not going to 'sense' it as easily if you get too stressed yourself. And Lucy will sense your stress over her eating/not eating. You don't want that. Got any tequila???t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs.You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold.Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one of my positives has gone through a period of hardly eating. Patches, due to her teeth it turned out, and Ginger because I had run out of her current food obsession (Pro Plan chicken and rice)-- when I bought more of that she started eating normally again! So now it is Lucy. I am hoping this passes as well. I swear
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I actually did try sauteeing it in some water and giving her the broth. She has liked that the past few weeks but would not touch it today. But I think there may be something wrong with this batch of turkey as it was less red than the last batches. I had not thought to add salt. That is a good idea. As soon as I get some more meat I will do that. Thanks, Michelle P.S. Thanks for the RR suggestion. She is quite calm, though. Or did you mean I should take it? :) In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:12:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Re cooking turkey: Try boiling it. I'm vegetarian and I hate cooking for the cats but they aren't so...Try to keep it a little rare. I don't feed mine turkey for reasons previously mentioned but if it is working for you have at it. This should also give you a broth that may help. The last time Kitty went on a hunger strike I got some highly salted ham and boiled a little for her (they sell little bits for biscuits or seasoning here). I think the odor but, more likely, the salt broke the fast. Saltines or other salty things help me when I have an upset stomach so I tried that reasoning on her. Once she had a little bit she felt like eating again and didn't want the really salty ham. She does like deli ham sometimes. Again, it seems to settle her stomach. Her liver is enlarged and pushing on the stomach which isn't helping things at all. These are just thoughts. I hope they help. I also suggest you try Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect which might help.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
No. I have thought of it, but would have to take her to vet to get it. I am in-between vets with her right now-- the one I was using basically did not want to treat her anymore until I get her an endoscapy (scope of her intestines) which I did not want to do at this point. I switched Quincy and Patches to another vet already, but have not had to take Lucy in yet. I am not sure I want to take her just for a B12 injection, as she gets super stressed by carriers and car rides. Do you think it would be a good idea to crush a b-complex tablet and syringe it to her with some baby food or something? She is very easy to syringe. I did give her a little periactin a couple of hours ago. She is sitting on Gray's lap right now purring so loudly that it sounds like there is a motor running in the room. She is not nearly as disturbed by all this as me-- in fact, it is probably all just part of an elaborate plan she has to get her dry food back! (I hope that is all, anyway) Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:16:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, have you also tried V-B complex injection, which has helped increased appetite for some of my babies.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Ah, I wish I could drink taquila, but I have gastritis (raw stomach lining) and so can not drink any alcohol. Would be nice though! (though i think taquila tastes horrible, actually!) Lucy never eats as much as the other cats. But when she was eating the raw food she ate about 4 bowls full per day. Maybe it is just a lot more water, though, and she is getting the same amount of food today, approximately, I don't know. A measuring cup per cat is actually a lot of dry food-- way more than two small handfuls. I would guess she ate less than 1/4 cup of the EVO today plus the baby food and spoonful or wet. You are right that it is enough not to be worried about a lot of weight loss or HL or anything like that. I just worry that it is a trend, and I worry about what to give her in the morning since she seems to be crossing everything off her list after one meal. But I guess I will just see what she wants in the morning and worry about it then. I seriously was convinced that there was something wrong with Ginger about two weeks ago because she was eating way less than usual and covered up (or pantomimed it, anyway) everything I offered her, including lots of favorites. I finally realized that I had run out of a recent favorite canned food and went and bought more of it, and she started eating a lot again! But only wants that one food! She and Patches both did this to me at the same time about two months ago-- first they both got obessed with Wellness chicken and herring canned food and stopped eating anything else. So I bought a case of it and they went through the whole case. So I bought another whole case of it. And wouldn't you know they changed their minds as soon as I brought it home and would not eat even a bite of it! To this day they don't want it. Now all Ginger wants is chunky chicken and rice by Pro Plan. But to see her disgust with all my other offerings, you would have thought she was generally repulsed by food. And Lucy is generally way way pickier than the other two, so I realize this may just be a protest of the menu on her part. Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:18:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't know Michelle. Most of my cats are on the rather 'plump' side, and they don't eat that much. Are you sure she normally eats lots more than this, or are you just maybe paying more attention to what she's eating since she's been sick? A jar of baby food, a spoon of wet food, and even two small handfuls of EVO should be enough that she's not particularly hungry in my opinion. I put out 5 small, ceramic bowls of kibble for 7 cats every day. And they don't even eat all of that before the next day. And most of them are 'obese' like their mom, lol, but it doesn't really seem like they eat that much. It has to work out to maybe a measuring cup per cat, if it's even that much. And 2 of mine are over 15 pounds! When I give wet food (on rare occasions. I know I should do it more.) I typically split one can of royal canin between all 7 cats. If I open a second there are 2 or 3 who will eat till they puke, but the rest have had enough after their spoonful. And the litterboxes are full every day like everyone is eating and drinking way more than it seems like a cat would. You know Lucy best, but it sounds like she's doing ok right now as long as she's not getting sick, and she's eating something. Inhale, exhale! Even if something's wrong you're not going to 'sense' it as easily if you get too stressed yourself. And Lucy will sense your stress over her eating/not eating. You don't want that. Got any tequila??? t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I'd suggest it for both of you. Cats are good at hiding their feelings. People need it when they are dealing with cats, particularly sick cats. I need it by the gallon. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now I actually did try sauteeing it in some water and giving her the broth. She has liked that the past few weeks but would not touch it today. But I think there may be something wrong with this batch of turkey as it was less red than the last batches. I had not thought to add salt. That is a good idea. As soon as I get some more meat I will do that. Thanks, Michelle P.S. Thanks for the RR suggestion. She is quite calm, though. Or did you mean I should take it? :) In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:12:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Re cooking turkey: Try boiling it. I'm vegetarian and I hate cooking for the cats but they aren't so...Try to keep it a little rare. I don't feed mine turkey for reasons previously mentioned but if it is working for you have at it. This should also give you a broth that may help. The last time Kitty went on a hunger strike I got some highly salted ham and boiled a little for her (they sell little bits for biscuits or seasoning here). I think the odor but, more likely, the salt broke the fast. Saltines or other salty things help me when I have an upset stomach so I tried that reasoning on her. Once she had a little bit she felt like eating again and didn't want the really salty ham. She does like deli ham sometimes. Again, it seems to settle her stomach. Her liver is enlarged and pushing on the stomach which isn't helping things at all. These are just thoughts. I hope they help. I also suggest you try Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect which might help.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
EVO is a lot more concentrated and filling (according to Kitty) than a lot of other foods. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Ah, I wish I could drink taquila, but I have gastritis (raw stomach lining) and so can not drink any alcohol. Would be nice though! (though i think taquila tastes horrible, actually!) Lucy never eats as much as the other cats. But when she was eating the raw food she ate about 4 bowls full per day. Maybe it is just a lot more water, though, and she is getting the same amount of food today, approximately, I don't know. A measuring cup per cat is actually a lot of dry food-- way more than two small handfuls. I would guess she ate less than 1/4 cup of the EVO today plus the baby food and spoonful or wet. You are right that it is enough not to be worried about a lot of weight loss or HL or anything like that. I just worry that it is a trend, and I worry about what to give her in the morning since she seems to be crossing everything off her list after one meal. But I guess I will just see what she wants in the morning and worry about it then. I seriously was convinced that there was something wrong with Ginger about two weeks ago because she was eating way less than usual and covered up (or pantomimed it, anyway) everything I offered her, including lots of favorites. I finally realized that I had run out of a recent favorite canned food and went and bought more of it, and she started eating a lot again! But only wants that one food! She and Patches both did this to me at the same time about two months ago-- first they both got obessed with Wellness chicken and herring canned food and stopped eating anything else. So I bought a case of it and they went through the whole case. So I bought another whole case of it. And wouldn't you know they changed their minds as soon as I brought it home and would not eat even a bite of it! To this day they don't want it. Now all Ginger wants is chunky chicken and rice by Pro Plan. But to see her disgust with all my other offerings, you would have thought she was generally repulsed by food. And Lucy is generally way way pickier than the other two, so I realize this may just be a protest of the menu on her part. Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:18:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't know Michelle. Most of my cats are on the rather 'plump' side, and they don't eat that much. Are you sure she normally eats lots more than this, or are you just maybe paying more attention to what she's eating since she's been sick? A jar of baby food, a spoon of wet food, and even two small handfuls of EVO should be enough that she's not particularly hungry in my opinion. I put out 5 small, ceramic bowls of kibble for 7 cats every day. And they don't even eat all of that before the next day. And most of them are 'obese' like their mom, lol, but it doesn't really seem like they eat that much. It has to work out to maybe a measuring cup per cat, if it's even that much. And 2 of mine are over 15 pounds! When I give wet food (on rare occasions. I know I should do it more.) I typically split one can of royal canin between all 7 cats. If I open a second there are 2 or 3 who will eat till they puke, but the rest have had enough after their spoonful. And the litterboxes are full every day like everyone is eating and drinking way more than it seems like a cat would. You know Lucy best, but it sounds like she's doing ok right now as long as she's not getting sick, and she's eating something. Inhale, exhale! Even if something's wrong you're not going to 'sense' it as easily if you get too stressed yourself. And Lucy will sense your stress over her eating/not eating. You don't want that. Got any tequila??? t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
That's good to know! Thanks! In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:53:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EVO is a lot more concentrated and filling (according to Kitty) than a lot of other foods.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I'm sure it is. lol. And I'm sure my cats' portions don't come out to a cup each. I'm just saying that I think Lucy is eating enough for right now, and I hope Michelle is just being overly worried for no reasonwhile Lucy is snickering behind her back waiting to get the food she wants.tMarylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: EVO is a lot more concentrated and filling (according to Kitty) than a lot of other foods. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Ah, I wish I could drink taquila, but I have gastritis (raw stomach lining) and so can not drink any alcohol. Would be nice though! (though i think taquila tastes horrible, actually!)Lucy never eats as much as the other cats. But when she was eating the raw food she ate about 4 bowls full per day. Maybe it is just a lot more water, though, and she is getting the same amount of food today, approximately, I don't know. A measuring cup per cat is actually a lot of dry food-- way more than two small handfuls. I would guess she ate less than 1/4 cup of the EVO today plus the baby food and spoonful or wet. You are right that it is enough not to be worried about a lot of weight loss or HL or anything like that. I just worry that it is a trend, and I worry about what to give her in the morning since she seems to be crossing everything off her list after one meal. But I guess I will just see what she wants in the morning and worry about it then.I seriously was convinced that there was something wrong with Ginger about two weeks ago because she was eating way less than usual and covered up (or pantomimed it, anyway) everything I offered her, including lots of favorites. I finally realized that I had run out of a recent favorite canned food and went and bought more of it, and she started eating a lot again! But only wants that one food! She and Patches both did this to me at the same time about two months ago-- first they both got obessed with Wellness chicken and herring canned food and stopped eating anything else. So I bought a case of it and they went through the whole case. So I bought another whole case of it. And wouldn't you know they changed their minds as soon as I brought it home and would not eat even a bite of it! To this day they don't want it. Now all Ginger wants is chunky chicken and rice by Pro Plan. But to see her disgust with all my other offerings, you would have thought she was generally repulsed by food. And Lucy is generally way way pickier than the other two, so I realize this may just be a protest of the menu on her part.MichelleIn a message dated 1/23/2006 7:18:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I don't know Michelle. Most of my cats are on the rather 'plump' side, and they don't eat that much. Are you sure she normally eats lots more than this, or are you just maybe paying more attention to what she's eating since she's been sick? A jar of baby food, a spoon of wet food, and even two small handfuls of EVO should be enough that she's not particularly hungry in my opinion.I put out 5 small, ceramic bowls of kibble for 7 cats every day. And they don't even eat all of that before the next day. And most of them are 'obese' like their mom, lol, but it doesn't really seem like they eat that much. It has to work out to maybe a measuring cup per cat, if it's even that much. And 2 of mine are over 15 pounds! When I give wet food (on rare occasions. I know I should do it more.) I typically split one can of royal canin between all 7 cats. If I open a second there are 2 or 3 who will eat till they puke, but the rest have had enough after their spoonful.And the litterboxes are full every day like everyone is eating and drinking way more than it seems like a cat would.You know Lucy best, but it sounds like she's doing ok right now as long as she's not getting sick, and she's eating something.Inhale, exhale! Even if something's wrong you're not going to 'sense' it as easily if you get too stressed yourself. And Lucy will sense your stress over her eating/not eating. You don't want that. Got any tequila???t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
You should see the way that Ginger scratches and paws next to any food she does not feel like eating, as if to say it is so repulsive she can not bear seeing it and would I PLEASE dispose of it and give her something edible. Ginger stayed at my mom's for a month when we were moving (I had brought her down to NJ from MA with me when my horse in NJ was dying because Ginger was too sick to leave at home, and then she got better at my mom's and stayed there for a month while we moved down to NJ). My mom fed her in a bathroom with a rug (to keep her separate from my mom's negative cat). My mom eventually took up the rug because every time Ginger did not like what my mom offered she pulled up pieces of the rug and covered the food with it! My mom said she finally stopped offering something new every time Ginger did that and just left the food, and would sneak back a few hours later and see most of it was eaten. Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:07:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm sure it is. lol. And I'm sure my cats' portions don't come out to a cup each. I'm just saying that I think Lucy is eating enough for right now, and I hope Michelle is just being overly worried for no reasonwhile Lucy is snickering behind her back waiting to get the food she wants. t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Another take on this: I deal with a lot of ferals/throw aways/ cats who have had to live on their own. Most of them, even small kittens, try to hide the food they don't want to eat then, when they want it, they can come back and get it. I have a feral in the garage that does this, even with food she loves. My indoor cat, Dixie Louise, a throwaway, does this. All of them are very intent when they are covering the food, using anything they can or nothing to protect the food. I have seen them use their toys and beddingcovers. It may be a repressed instinct. Like dogs burying bones. Remember howmuch effort they put into covering in their litter boxes. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now You should see the way that Ginger scratches and paws next to any food she does not feel like eating, as if to say it is so repulsive she can not bear seeing it and would I PLEASE dispose of it and give her something edible. Ginger stayed at my mom's for a month when we were moving (I had brought her down to NJ from MA with me when my horse in NJ was dying because Ginger was too sick to leave at home, and then she got better at my mom's and stayed there for a month while we moved down to NJ). My mom fed her in a bathroom with a rug (to keep her separate from my mom's negative cat). My mom eventually took up the rug because every time Ginger did not like what my mom offered she pulled up pieces of the rug and covered the food with it! My mom said she finally stopped offering something new every time Ginger did that and just left the food, and would sneak back a few hours later and see most of it was eaten. Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:07:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm sure it is. lol. And I'm sure my cats' portions don't come out to a cup each. I'm just saying that I think Lucy is eating enough for right now, and I hope Michelle is just being overly worried for no reasonwhile Lucy is snickering behind her back waiting to get the food she wants. t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now-covering food
Yes, I have some that do it for something 'good' they want to hide, and sometimes for something 'bad' like a hairball or peeing on the rug... You just never know! My latest cat, Mama Kitty, the one who had lived with the ferals, had 2 or 3 litters, and had her stomach 'skinned' while living outside with a feral colony at my sister's (for those of you who remember). She covers things the most. So I do think it has to do with saving/hiding food lots of times.She has taken over for DD (my positive, and next to last kitty brought in). Each of them (and mamma kitty still) will run to EVERY dish of food as I put it out, and slap away any other cat who tries to eat out of it. Then they will settle on oneto eat fromand leave the others alone. DD stopped doing this when Mamma kitty took over for her. Go figure. Mamma kitty will run from dish to dish even if no other cats are hungry enough to come into the room. I'm sure our cats find it humorous if they know how much time we spend trying to figure out what they're thinking!t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You should see the way that Ginger scratches and paws next to any food she does not feel like eating, as if to say it is so repulsive she can not bear seeing it and would I PLEASE dispose of it and give her something edible. Ginger stayed at my mom's for a month when we were moving (I had brought her down to NJ from MA with me when my horse in NJ was dying because Ginger was too sick to leave at home, and then she got better at my mom's and stayed there for a month while we moved down to NJ). My mom fed her in a bathroom with a rug (to keep her separate from my mom's negative cat). My mom eventually took up the rug because every time Ginger did not like what my mom offered she pulled up pieces of the rug and covered the food with it! My mom said she finally stopped offering something new every time Ginger did that and just left the food, and would sneak back a few hours later and see most of it was eaten. MichelleIn a message dated 1/23/2006 8:07:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I'm sure it is. lol. And I'm sure my cats' portions don't come out to a cup each. I'm just saying that I think Lucy is eating enough for right now, and I hope Michelle is just being overly worried for no reasonwhile Lucy is snickering behind her back waiting to get the food she wants.t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I know, I have thought of that. But if I give her something that she actually wants to eat, she eats it and does not cover it. If I cater to her and keep opening things until I hit what she wants, she covers everything up until I hit the right thing and then digs into that one. The fact that I did do this for her more than a few times is probably why she so vigorously does this now-- she has me trained! As long as I know this is what she is doing, I try not to keep opening things these days and just offer her the same thing until she is hungry enough to eat it. I was throwing away a lot of food fora while, thinking she would not eat if I did not give her what she wanted! Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:30:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another take on this: I deal with a lot of ferals/throw aways/ cats who have had to live on their own. Most of them, even small kittens, try to hide the food they don't want to eat then, when they want it, they can come back and get it. I have a feral in the garage that does this, even with food she loves. My indoor cat, Dixie Louise, a throwaway, does this. All of them are very intent when they are covering the food, using anything they can or nothing to protect the food. I have seen them use their toys and beddingcovers. It may be a repressed instinct. Like dogs burying bones. Remember howmuch effort they put into covering in their litter boxes.
OT - Raw food and IBD
Belinda, Congratulations on getting your grinder! It took me a while to order mine, but I'm so glad I finally did. It didn't take 6 weeks to see results with Gypsy, she was having formed stools for the first time in a year after only 4 days! Write me off list if you want to exchange details. Nina Belinda Sauro wrote: Cats cannot process grains properly and they don't need them. An all meat diet is fine as long as the correct supplements are added, I've been researching this for a while and cooresponding with a vet that feeds her cats raw. This is what made me finally decide to try it. My poor Joey has IBD and nothing I try seems to completely resolve it although I will tell you he threw up 10 minutes after eating dry food which he hasn't eaten for a long time. Cats with IBD should not eat dry food. I guess the proof will be how my guys feel and look once I have been feeding raw for a while. I get my grinder tomorrow if it's on time so we'll see in about 4 to 6 weeks after they have been completely switched :)
