Re: [Finale] Fin2005b
Are you talking about the problem when TAB to TAB copies aren't copied to the identical strings with mass copy? If that's the case, I don't see your point. I am talking about tab to tab mass copy. What do you mean by don't see my point Jari? Am I missing something? -- Simon Troup Digital Music Art - Finale IRC channel server: irc.chatspike.net port: 6667 channel: #Finale - ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2005b
Jari Williamsson wrote: Hello! Fin2005b is available. Main fix is probably the occasional problem when pasting to older files. (Btw, it contains more HP fixes than what's listed in the readme file.) I do believe that PS fonts have more (or better) descriptions of curves, but that doesn't answer the question as to why Finale would recommend PS fonts to be used on laser printers without specifying that the printers have PS capabilities. Do PS fonts print on printers that don't have PS built into them? I didn't think so, that was what TrueType was all about as I recall (that, plus the fact that truetype was cheaper for microsoft than licensing PS from Adobe). -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] For the Birds
Thanks David! Most wonderfully argued. And you too Andrew... Music can have function but doesn't require function. Bird song does require function otherwise it wouldn't exist. A better example is sex -- by Andrew's thinking everything on this good earth enjoys sex --- and I like that thought. But in every example, except man, sex is solely a function. For man there is function in sex but it is also an activity for pleasure -- myself for example --I have had a very full life of nothing but dis-functional sex! Chomsky -- I'm not so sure Darcy -- but it has been a while since I read anything on the subject -- I'm pretty sure the last thing was a dis. --- :) No takers on the coral reef? Jerry On 6-Feb-05, at 6:33 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 6 Feb 2005 at 16:11, Andrew Stiller wrote: Jerry: Birds don't make music -- they use sound for function. Music has no function? Logical misdirection. Sounds can have function without being music. Animals don't make music, though they do make sounds. Bird song is not produced for joy but for vigilance. You are making the common error of confusing the function of a behavior with the subjective experience of the one behaving. . . . Birds don't make or appreciate music. . . . If you accept that birdsong is a conscious act, then birds do it because they enjoy doing so. . . . Ah, so you have the brain of a bird, and that's how you know this? Remarkable what you've accomplished in life with such a small amount of gray matter, then. . . . This has the *effect* of attracting a mate or warning off rivals or alarming the flock or alerting them to a food supply (far more than mere vigilance, NB), but the bird does not consciously sing *for those purposes.* . . . Nor does the bird sing for esthetic purposes (i.e., music). It's like the difference between prose and poetry. . . . I don't think that any thoughtful person can deny any longer that huge chunks of human behavior (conventional wisdom says ~50%) are biologically determined. The question of whether, and to what extent, musical response is to be considered part of our biological heritage clearly has a number of folks on this list quite exercised--to the point of constructing straw men and intuition pumps. Biology may dictate possibilities. It does not control anything important in the level of musical expression. It may explain certain basic underlying uncomplicated aspects of reaction to psycho-acoustic phenomena, but it doesn't explain the history of Western music, where there has been a constant march *away* from using merely the pure aspects of the acoustics. If the pentatonic scale were important in the way that the biological determinists seem to want it to be, then why would any culture create music that is nothing but pentatonic? To those who assert that music is a purely cultural phenomenon, I would point out that this idea has been put to the test, quite rigorously, by John Cage, who insisted that any sounds or combination of sounds could be construed as music if one merely had the will to do so, and spent 40 years of his life composing music on precisely that principle. Was this music as successful (moving, exciting, attractive) as other musics? Could other music, composed on the same principle, be more successful? No, and no. You have scientific proof that Cage was wrong? I actually don't think much of Cage's work as music per se, but he had a lot of good ideas. Music in all its *significant* aspects is a culturally constructed phenomena. All the psycho-acoustic underpinnings are of no importance whatsoever to actual musical expression. Claiming otherwise is a debasement of both genetics and of music. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Gerald Berg ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
But of course this very thing produced Cage himself. Cage didn't posit an alternate but an inverse. His way was never free but rather, full enslavement. Without the legacy of culture we would be as every other living thing -- in perpetual present. His early stuff was great! Less intellect-- more intuition. Maybe sometime in the future we will need the opposite formula-- but not today. Jerry On 6-Feb-05, at 6:41 PM, Owain Sutton wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: To those who assert that music is a purely cultural phenomenon, I would point out that this idea has been put to the test, quite rigorously, by John Cage, who insisted that any sounds or combination of sounds could be construed as music if one merely had the will to do so, and spent 40 years of his life composing music on precisely that principle. Was this music as successful (moving, exciting, attractive) as other musics? Could other music, composed on the same principle, be more successful? No, and no. You have scientific proof that Cage was wrong? I think there's been a thorough misunderstanding of Cage, here (and not on David's part) - we are indoctrinated into tonality virtually from birth. We are surrounded by one type of music, to the almost complete exclusion of others. What we go through from our earliest experiences parallels what Cage describes. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Refreshing week
After re-reading the posts and commentaries over the past week, I realized again how rich the folks on this group are in knowledge and thought and passion and open-mindedness -- from notation and programming through history and background to musicality and creativity, coursing through languages and psychology and biology and all manner of computerdom. Thanks to everyone for a refreshing challenging week, Dennis PS: If you've got Discovery Channel, you might check out Deadly Women tomorrow (Tuesday) night at 9pm ET. I haven't seen it yet, but there might be clips of me and my chamber opera. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
ere is nothing important in music that comes from science. -- David W. Fenton You've really got to stop blurting out things like that w.o thinking. Valved brasses? Boehm-system woodwinds? Electric and electronic instruments? MIDI? Nylon strings? Computer composition? Computer sound synthesis? Sound recording? Are these things not important? not musical? not from science? Beyond that, there is the less measurable by very important influence of acoustic and music-psychological theories upon compositional styles, going back at least to Berlioz. -- Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] lyrics problem
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am engraving a piece for choir and strings. I entered the lyrics directly into the score. At the end the piece Finale seems to have inserted word extension dashes through the next syllables. It only does this on one movement of the piece and only in the last 8 bars. Check the edit lyrics dialog box; I'm guessing that you have a case where a hyphen has become prepended to a syllable. In the Edit lyrics dialog box, remove just the hyphen, and I'm guessing the problem will resolve itself. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Music fonts
When did Finale music fonts get this uglier? I had to rearrange one of my old composition for a show this Friday. Instead of editing Finale3.2 file, I created a new one from the scratch with 2005b. The printout just shocked me. Comparing the two, old one had much sharper and sophisticated look, while the new one is much bulkier. Do we have any way of going back except running legacy Finale versions? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] system height issue
Whittall, Geoff wrote: It seems that at time, Finale 2004 will not let me reduce the height of a system, even if there is lots of head space. If I try to drag the system margin box in the top left corner, down, Finale just pops it back up again. Is there a way around this? First question, in the Page-layout menu, have you remembered to uncheck avoid margin collision? ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] For the Birds
Gerald Berg: Thanks David! Most wonderfully argued. And you too Andrew... Thenk yew. Music can have function but doesn't require function. Bird song does require function otherwise it wouldn't exist. This I think goes to the very core of the argument. I believe (on suggestive but admittedly incomplete evidence) that human musical response--the pleasure we get from hearing music--is an evolved capacity of the human brain, and therefore does indeed have a function that enhanced the survivability and/or reproductive success of our ancestors. As to what that function is/might be, chapter 11 of Bruno Nettl's _The Study of Ethnomusicology_ is entirely devoted to the question, and I recommend the whole book most heartily to everyone who has had the patience to endure this thread thus far. Another way of thinking about it: Imagine a distant planet inhabited by an intelligent species, air-breathing and land-dwelling, with hands or tentacles or something, and an auditory apparatus very close to our own in its specifications. Question: do these beings have music? I would say maybe, but quite possibly not. But if you think musical response is simply the application of a generalized esthetic sensibility (itself a direct consequence of intelligence) to the realm of sound, then you would answer yes, definitely. A further question: If they do have music, would it appeal to us, and ours to them? I would say only in the most feeble and tentative way, but my opponent would suggest that their music would differ from ours no more than the musics of any two human cultures differ. A better example is sex -- by Andrew's thinking everything on this good earth enjoys sex --- and I like that thought. 'Fraid not. I'd say definitely yes only for amniote tetrapods, and many cephalopods, but whether and to what extent consciousness inheres in the rest of the animal kingdom, I'm very dubious. I don't think any arthropod is at all conscious, e.g., and I have my doubts about fish. But in every example, except man, sex is solely a function. For man there is function in sex but it is also an activity for pleasure -- Nature is full of examples of non-human sexual behavior that could not possibly lead to reproduction. Chomsky -- I'm not so sure Darcy -- but it has been a while since I read anything on the subject -- I'm pretty sure the last thing was a dis. --- :) Chomsky was right in thinking of language as a biologically based capacity of the human brain, but incredibly he did not accept that this capacity was an evolved one. The other main problem with his theories is that he thinks every detail of grammar, syntax, etc. is a consequence of rules learned by the brain during language acquisition. Steven Pinker's recent book about irregular word forms demonstrates pretty conclusively that irregular forms are stored in the brain as if they were separate words, not as grammatical inflections. . -- Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music fonts
At 06:44 PM 2/7/05 +0100, d. collins wrote: I've looked at many, and I'm still waiting for the one I'd really like. I think Revere is gorgeous, the one that Alan Talbot designed. But it's not Finale-compatible, and you have to own a copy of Graphire Music Press to use it legally. If they'd sell it separately with a Finale-compatible encoding, I'd switch in a minute. Unfortunately, no one knows what's happened to Graphire now; the site is back up, but without updating for at least a year. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music fonts
d. collins wrote: There are also other music fonts you could try. I've looked at many, and I'm still waiting for the one I'd really like. Or use a combination of fonts? Such as one font for flags, one for noteheads, and so on. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music fonts
Jari Williamsson / 05.2.7 / 00:35 PM wrote: Which fonts are you comparing? There's nothing stopping you from using the fonts you used in the old Finale versions (probably Petrucci, if you used a built-in font in Finale 3.2). Sorry I didn't mention I already tried Petrucci, and I get the same bulkier output compared to my old printouts. The printer has never been changed. I am using HP5MP for years that I lost count of :-) I should had said 'printout' instead of 'music font'. Apology. P.S. And I am sure I am using Petrucci by looking at accent mark, which is very distinctive, but I don't see much differences on notes, while jazz font does give distinctive look, which I am not too crazy about. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] For the Birds
On 07 Feb 2005, at 12:56 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: Chomsky was right in thinking of language as a biologically based capacity of the human brain, but incredibly he did not accept that this capacity was an evolved one. The other main problem with his theories is that he thinks every detail of grammar, syntax, etc. is a consequence of rules learned by the brain during language acquisition. Steven Pinker's recent book about irregular word forms demonstrates pretty conclusively that irregular forms are stored in the brain as if they were separate words, not as grammatical inflections. Right, but Pinker is essentially a Chomskian -- he'd be the first to tell you so -- and the theories he lays out in _Words and Rules_ are refinements and elaborations of Chomskian linguistics, not refutations. It's true that Chomsky believes in rules all the way down, which is almost certainly over-reaching, but many of his critics (unlike Pinker) don't believe in any innate grammatical rules at all! It was in this context that Jerry mentioned that he believes that Chomsky is incorrect about innate universal grammar and that human infants have no language instinct and need to be taught language -- which is clearly false. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
At 12:34 PM 2/7/05 -0500, Phil Daley wrote: The first question: Was this (Cage's) music as successful (moving, exciting, attractive) as other musics? I don't see how anyone can argue a yes answer to this question. The scientific proof would be that pretty much no one has ever heard of him (outside of academic music people). I'll argue yes, and easily. I'm not an academic, and never have been. But I have lived through the era when Cage's works fit in beautifully with the temper of the times. His performances were filled with energetic people who loved the sounds and intimately understood this music. HPSCHD on recording was an inspiration to me with its lustrous mix. And even up here, the Yellow Barn Festival was sold out to hear one of Cage's brand new pieces for two dozen strings. Captivating, beautiful, spectacular recordings that may change your definition of success include the choral pieces by Ars Nova, Christina Fong's violin renderings, the Stephen Drury keyboard interpretations (the fantastic In a Landscape CD), and the untouchable Singing Through recording in which Joan LaBarbara just plain knocks 'em dead. If by 'other musics' you mean the bulk of music people listen to and buy, then Mozart can't hold a candle in this argument either. But there are many measures of success that include both Mozart and Cage as 'moving, exciting, attractive' -- and I'll take the latter any day of the week. If the second question had been: Has other music, composed on the same principle, been more successful? The answer would be NO. There's a world of them out there. But I can only sputter at such a statement. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] For the Birds
On 07 Feb 2005, at 9:38 AM, Gerald Berg wrote: Chomsky -- I'm not so sure Darcy -- but it has been a while since I read anything on the subject -- I'm pretty sure the last thing was a dis. --- :) There's certainly no shortage of people trying to dis Chomsky. There's no shortage of people trying to dis Darwin, either. Your specific allegation -- that children need to be taught language or they won't develop it -- is simply not true. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaraguan_Sign_Language - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
At 2/7/2005 01:31 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: I'll argue yes, and easily. I'm not an academic, and never have been. But I If by 'other musics' you mean the bulk of music people listen to and buy, then Mozart can't hold a candle in this argument either. But there are many measures of success that include both Mozart and Cage as 'moving, exciting, attractive' -- and I'll take the latter any day of the week. Exactly, if Mozart is not successful, then Cage is certainly far behind him. If the second question had been: Has other music, composed on the same principle, been more successful? The answer would be NO. There's a world of them out there. But I can only sputter at such a statement. Perhaps you could enlighten us. I have never heard of anyone following in Cage's footsteps. And he/they certainly never even reached the successfulness of Mozart. I would doubt that they reached the successfulness of Cage, but then, I don't know who they are. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
Phil Daley / 05.2.7 / 00:34 PM wrote: The first question: Was this (Cage's) music as successful (moving, exciting, attractive) as other musics? Woa. Never expected this to come. I was very, very lucky to play his music under his direction one year before he past away. His percussion pieces are of course exciting, and other texture pieces are moving if directed properly. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] system height issue
Whittall, Geoff wrote: It seems that at time, Finale 2004 will not let me reduce the height of a system, even if there is lots of head space. If I try to drag the system margin box in the top left corner, down, Finale just pops it back up again. Is there a way around this? Is the only way to fool the system to go into scroll view, and drag the staff box upwards on the screen, to be able to change the apparent overhead height of the system? Another thought: did you perchance delete the top staff at some point, without adjusting the spacing of the lower ones? You can adjust this in the menu associated with the staff tool, under the option staff usage or respace staves. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music fonts
At 08:11 PM 2/7/05 +0100, d. collins wrote: Any samples to be seen anywhere? I'd love to have a look at it, even if there's little hope. http://www.graphire.com/ Click on the music samples. (oh-yeah-the-other) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On Monday, February 7, 2005, at 12:34 PM, Phil Daley wrote: The first question: Was this (Cage's) music as successful (moving, exciting, attractive) as other musics? I don't see how anyone can argue a yes answer to this question. The scientific proof would be that pretty much no one has ever heard of him (outside of academic music people). Well, that's neither here nor there. What modern composer IS known outside of academic circles? Cage is at least as well-known as say, Takemitsu. Furthermore, have you heard his percussion music? Granted, it was his earlier work, before his conceptual stuff that put him on the map, but I maintain that it contains the seeds of that conceptual music, and it is very successful. The second question: Could other music, composed on the same principle, be more successful? I suppose no is a little hypothetical. If the second question had been: Has other music, composed on the same principle, been more successful? The answer would be NO. Again, I point you to other percussion music, including African drumming, which embraces many of these principles. Also techno dance music, which although it has a function (if a piece of art can be used to clean the oven, is it still art? Woody Allen) is still WILDLY successful, AND popular. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music fonts
d. collins wrote: Jari Williamsson écrit: Or use a combination of fonts? Such as one font for flags, one for noteheads, and so on. Yes, that's a good idea, though I don't know how legal it is. Many font licences stipulate that you can't make changes to the fonts. I started, but never got much further than the clefs. I have a collection of at least a dozen or so G clefs, borrowed here and there, and ended up with my own design. But that's not enough for most music... You can assign a separate font for each of those items in Options/DocumentSettings/Fonts. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Smart Explosion and Finale 2005b?
Title: RE: [Finale] Smart Explosion and Finale 2005b? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Tobias Giesen Sent: Monday, February 7, 2005 1:10 PM since the Finale 2005b update doesn't fix the duplicate score _expression_ problem with Smart Explosion, I will now develop a fix in TGTools today. Thank you Tobias! A much needed fix. Steve Fiskum ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music fonts
A-NO-NE Music wrote: Come to think of it, in my 17 years Finale life, I have wanted the list of settings printed out. Every time I don't like settings by new version, I had to go find what setting has changed since readme is not going to tell you. You can install the Windows version of Finale on one of your Windows machines, install Forza! Lite and use Settings Transfer on the file you want to document. Press on Report Current Settings... to create a report (that you can print) with the settings you need. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] sustained chords
Hey, I would like your advise how to write broken chords, as often used in the romantic piano litteratur. an example: If the composer wants the pianist to play a C major triad with the C on beat 1, the E on beat 2 and the G on beat 3. All 3 notes should be sustained to form a C major triad on the 4'th beat. This involves (in Finale) the use of ties or slurs, and works very well( well not that smart with the special tool and extending the lenght of each tie), but when it comes to ties/slurs over a staff break it all becomes a little difficult. I would very much appreciate your opinion and suggestions!! regards Stig ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On 7 Feb 2005 at 11:32, Andrew Stiller wrote: ere is nothing important in music that comes from science. -- David W. Fenton You've really got to stop blurting out things like that w.o thinking. Valved brasses? Boehm-system woodwinds? Electric and electronic instruments? MIDI? Nylon strings? Computer composition? Computer sound synthesis? Sound recording? None of those things is MUSIC. Are these things not important? not musical? not from science? The carpenter's tools are not the point of his work. Beyond that, there is the less measurable by very important influence of acoustic and music-psychological theories upon compositional styles, going back at least to Berlioz. I would be interested to see specific examples in pieces of music where these things produced events in the musical foreground that are traceable back to these theories. Musical meaning has *nothing* to do with acoustics, any more than meaning in language has anything to do with phonemes. Yes, patterns of phonemes produce patterns that convey meaning, but the phonemes themselves MEAN NOTHING. A perfect fifth is one of the phonemens of music. And it's just as meaningless. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On 7 Feb 2005 at 11:34, Andrew Stiller wrote: You prove *your* assertion that, in effect, consonance can exist in music in which dissonance is never resolved. Dumbarton Oaks Concerto. Last chord. QED A schoolmarmish definition of unresolved you have here, as lots of dissonances *before* the last chord (probably most of them) are, in fact, resolved. I've no interest in playing your childish debating games. Oh dear. Your example was *very* childish, as it has nothing to do with internal structure, any more than final chords always tell you what key a piece is in. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On 7 Feb 2005 at 12:06, Andrew Stiller wrote: whether other critters can be said to make music depends a lot on how music is defined. Ah, finally a statement that shows that you *do* actually understand the topic of discussion. Speech uses sound to convey meaning (the prose of sound). Music uses sound to convey meaning (the poetry of sound). But no one would confuse everyday speech with music (though some might find a certain kind of metaphorical music in speech). Prose vs. poetry -- non-human animals may very well be using the prose of sound, but they aren't producing poetry in sound. Well, I'll qualify that somewhat: whales and porpoises may very well have enough intelligence to manipulate sounds for esthetic purposes (i.e., composing music). That is, they are intelligent enough to have an esthetic sense. But I know of no other non-human animals whose intelligence level is high enough to suggest the possibility of that level of abstraction. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
Phil Daley: I don't see how anyone can argue a yes answer to this question. The scientific proof would be that pretty much no one has ever heard of [Cage] (outside of academic music people). Now, *that's* not true. There's a major Hollywood actor who's taken Cage's name as his own, and I imagine a great many of Nicholas Cage's fans know that. -- Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
David-- You went to Oberlin? I went to school right down the road in Ashland. When were you there? On 2/7/05 3:31 PM, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] saith: When he visited Oberlin while I was a student, his visit was actually sponsored by the dance department. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] system height issue
Geoffrey Whittall wrote: Would leaving avoid margin collision checked alter the behaviour of just the first system? It might in an optimized score, but I can't say as I've ever tried it. Test would be to remove system optimization for the document, and see what the result is; if it has no impace, you can undo the removal. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
Beyond that, there is the less measurable by very important influence of acoustic and music-psychological theories upon compositional styles, going back at least to Berlioz. I would be interested to see specific examples in pieces of music where these things produced events in the musical foreground that are traceable back to these theories. Here's one, then I'll quit: Janacek drew deliberately upon the notion (discussed by acousticians of his day) that sounds continue to echo briefly after they have ceased being produced, writing both fleeting polychords in imitation of the supposed overlap of adjacent chords, and quasi-arpeggiations where two successive chords were meant to be heard as if played simultaneously. It is very thoroughly and unambiguously documented both that he got the idea from acoustic theory, and that he consciously applied it in his own work. -- Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On 07 Feb 2005, at 4:17 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 6 Feb 2005 at 23:39, Darcy James Argue wrote: That's like saying There is nothing important in basketball that comes from physics. On the one hand, Lebron Lames doesn't actually need to know the first thing about Isaac Newton or his theories in order to reliably put the ball in the hoop. On the other hand... The laws of physics apply equally to all basketball players. Some are brilliant, some less so. Clearly, fine playing has nothing to do with physics, and everything to do with individual talent and skill. You don't think Lebron James has a better intuitive understanding of the physics of basketball than the average person? You don't think Tiger Woods has a better intuitive understanding of the physics of golf than his competitors? You don't think world-class pool players have a better intuitive understanding of the physics of pool than the two-bit shark at the dive down the street? And how often is Newton discussed by the broadcasters calling a basketball game? I would say probably NEVER. You don't think basketball commentators (and coaches, and players) talk about angle, rebounds, arcs, etc? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] TGTools v2.32
Hi everybody, a new TGTools version is now available that avoids creating duplicate measure-attached expressions during Smart Explosion/Distribution. A few other problems have also been fixed as noted in my previous email. Cheers, Tobias http://www.tgtools.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT File Downloading
Hey Darcy ... I went to the site you gave me, and got the Flash Player Install icon on my desk top. However, every time I attempt to install it, when it opens Internet Explorer 5.1 automatically, that application always unexpectedly quits. More confusing is, that normally I run Explorer 5.2. Any thoughts Dean On Feb 4, 2005, at 6:45 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Dean, Sounds like you need to reinstall the Macromedia Flash Player: http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi? P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 04 Feb 2005, at 9:11 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Hey, Darcy: It opend previsously via Explorer (5.2) I believe. The whole message I get when I now try to open it is: Internet Explorer doesn't know how to handle the type of file you have selected. You can save this file to your disk, or you can configure a helper application to open it. MIME Type : application/x-shcokwave-flash File Name: UntilThen.swf On Feb 4, 2005, at 6:03 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Dean, What kind of file is this? What application did it open with before? Do you have a link? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 04 Feb 2005, at 8:53 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Ok ... the other day someone suggested I download OS X.3.7 to improve my life. So, I did. Now, a file I had just downloaded a few minutes prior to my new OS download, and which had played beautifully (it's a great slide show of Iraq pics with the BYU Choir singing in the background), will no longer open as it did with the prior OS. It just gives me a message that I can configure a helper application to open it, or do something else, I can't remember what. Help! Dean I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the journey it has provided my daughter and hundreds of other students I have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage from our childrens curricula. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the journey it has provided my daughter and hundreds of other students I have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage from our childrens curricula. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the journey it has provided my daughter and hundreds of other students I have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage from our childrens curricula. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT File Downloading
Dean M. Estabrook / 05.2.7 / 05:34 PM wrote: I went to the site you gave me, and got the Flash Player Install icon on my desk top. However, every time I attempt to install it, when it opens Internet Explorer 5.1 automatically, that application always unexpectedly quits. More confusing is, that normally I run Explorer 5.2. Any thoughtsÇ Did you try repairing permission and repairing disk as I suggested before? I think your system is unstable. DiskWarrior might be in order as well. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
Sorry All-- Didn't mean for this to go to the list... On 2/7/05 3:56 PM, Allen Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] saith: David-- You went to Oberlin? I went to school right down the road in Ashland. When were you there? On 2/7/05 3:31 PM, David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] saith: When he visited Oberlin while I was a student, his visit was actually sponsored by the dance department. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT File Downloading
Sorry .. I didn't catch your post. How does one go about repairing the disk? Dean On Feb 7, 2005, at 2:47 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Dean M. Estabrook / 05.2.7 / 05:34 PM wrote: I went to the site you gave me, and got the Flash Player Install icon on my desk top. However, every time I attempt to install it, when it opens Internet Explorer 5.1 automatically, that application always unexpectedly quits. More confusing is, that normally I run Explorer 5.2. Any thoughts Did you try repairing permission and repairing disk as I suggested before? I think your system is unstable. DiskWarrior might be in order as well. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the journey it has provided my daughter and hundreds of other students I have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage from our childrens curricula. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2005b
Simon, I certainly agree with you on this! As a music educator, I use Finale daily for guitar, piano, and many other notation needs. I don't have time for workarounds! I used to like guitar tab before newer versions, now I am considering not only not bothering to upgrade to 2005, but looking into alternative notation programs. Does anyone know if the chord transposition bug has been fixed in 2005? (2004 chords do not transpose with the notation when using mass edit chromatic transpose function) I'd really prefer not to have to use a workaround for this. Thanks, Bonnie On Monday, February 7, 2005, at 04:40 AM, Simon Troup wrote: Finale has AFAIK know always only copied the musical context, not a graphically identical version of the region. The clefs that start a region is one other example of what's not copied. Hi Jari I'm comparing this to 2001d mac, the last version we used prior to 2005. We couldn't progress beyond 2001 until 2005 because of EPS export issues and OSx compatibility. Anyway, in 2001 and before copied tablature pasted in place correctly. In the case of tablature there is no argument for wanting it to be done any other way. Anyway, it's pretty easy to correct the mistakes made by the tab-to-tab Mass Copy, either by using MassEdit/Utilities/Change Lowest Fret for a region, or use arrow keys in Simple Entry to move the wrong fret numbers to the correct string. It really isn't easy, it's horribly time consuming. You can only assume that If you're thinking that all guitar parts stay in one hand position what if the player is flying up and down the fretboard. We do a lot of advanced rock and jazz and the situation as it stands is awful. I emailed and telephoned MusicMaker about this and they confirmed it's in their bug database. I half hoped someone would tell me there was a deeply buried paste all tab into open position option somewhere that I hadn't discovered! I'm not saying the current behaviour is the ideal behaviour. Agreed! Obviously we're all looking out for the problems that affect us as individuals, and all bugs are relative to your own needs and personal circumstances. As such, this is without a doubt public enemy number 1 as far as we are concerned. -- Simon Troup Digital Music Art - Finale IRC channel server: irc.chatspike.net port: 6667 channel: #Finale - ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] G*d-awful score expressions bug
List, Odd. I went home on Friday, planning to mail Tobias my errant files. I thought to try things out one more time at before sending and guess what? No problems! I can't really account for it. I try to keep my two computers as similar as possible. Perhaps I had an old version of TGTools at school, or who knows what! In any case, I was able to do my work at home and all is fine (I think; I haven't tried using TGTools Explode tool yet, though I may not need to with Tobias' changes). Sorry for the wolf! Andrew Levin ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Scales and overtones
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don B. Robertson writes: The Western musical scale, be it tempered, pathagorian, mean or whatever, closely follows a VERY natural phenomena, and similarities in musical scales can be found in all major musical cultures. What similarities have you found in gamelan scales? -- Ken Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web site: http://www.mooremusic.org.uk/ I reject emails 100k automatically: warn me beforehand if you want to send one ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Smart Explosion and Finale 2005b?
Title: Re: [Finale] Smart Explosion and Finale 2005b? Hello Tobias. I'm now using Finale 2005b. Before moving your plugin collection, I'd like to update to the newest version and also move up to the professional set. It's been so long, I don't know what I've actually paid for. Can you let me know so that I can update and upgrade properly? Thanks. My last registration was QBBW0QNWQ581. Hal Owen Hi everybody, since the Finale 2005b update doesn't fix the duplicate score _expression_ problem with Smart Explosion, I will now develop a fix in TGTools today. I also released TGTools 2.31 yesterday, which includes the following things: - fixes Trill Notes for use in conjunction with Finale 2004's new Cross-Layer Accidental Spacing - fixes Smart Explosion/Distribution: the option Secondary Layers inherit ... did not always work - fixes Align/Move which sometimes processed the vertical positions of items attached to rests wrong Cheers, Tobias http://www.tgtools.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- Harold Owen 2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit my web site at: http://uoregon.edu/~hjowen FAX: (509) 461-3608 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] lyrics problem
On Feb 6, 2005, at 1:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am engraving a piece for choir and strings. I entered the lyrics directly into the score. At the end the piece Finale seems to have inserted word extension dashes through the next syllables. It only does this on one movement of the piece and only in the last 8 bars. If you enter lyrics with Type In Score, it's prudent to avoid the Edit Lyrics window if you don't know what you're doing. Before trying anything else, I would recommend you stay in Type In Score, select the last lyric syllable before the errant hyphens, and type the space bar. That will solve the problem if it's a simple extraneous hyphen. Sounds like it's something different, though, but hard to diagnose without seeing the file. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On 7 Feb 2005 at 17:08, Andrew Stiller wrote: Beyond that, there is the less measurable by very important influence of acoustic and music-psychological theories upon compositional styles, going back at least to Berlioz. I would be interested to see specific examples in pieces of music where these things produced events in the musical foreground that are traceable back to these theories. Here's one, then I'll quit: Janacek drew deliberately upon the notion (discussed by acousticians of his day) that sounds continue to echo briefly after they have ceased being produced, writing both fleeting polychords in imitation of the supposed overlap of adjacent chords, and quasi-arpeggiations where two successive chords were meant to be heard as if played simultaneously. It is very thoroughly and unambiguously documented both that he got the idea from acoustic theory, and that he consciously applied it in his own work. And to get the point of the music, do you need to know this about the origins of the idea? If not, then it's not very important musically, in my opinion. If so, then it's probably not very good music to begin with. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Music fonts
You mean you actually prefer the look of the good old Petrucci font? Hard to believe, but you should have no problem to make up your own default file with Petrucci. Johannes A-NO-NE Music wrote: When did Finale music fonts get this uglier? I had to rearrange one of my old composition for a show this Friday. Instead of editing Finale3.2 file, I created a new one from the scratch with 2005b. The printout just shocked me. Comparing the two, old one had much sharper and sophisticated look, while the new one is much bulkier. Do we have any way of going back except running legacy Finale versions? -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Expressions : Vert align in Gtr tab?
Anyone know how to precisely set vertical positioning of expressions against tab numbers? What works for one string doesn't for another! I've been working around this for ages, occurred to me maybe there's a way to do it, the list comes up with some great workarounds quite often :) -- Simon Troup Digital Music Art - Finale IRC channel server: irc.chatspike.net port: 6667 channel: #Finale - ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On 07 Feb 2005, at 8:40 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: You don't think basketball commentators (and coaches, and players) talk about angle, rebounds, arcs, etc? That's not physics, except using a rather debased definition of it that includes just about anything involving motion. David, that's just about the most ridiculous excuse for an argument I've ever heard. Debased physics? Because it includes just about anything involving motion? David, what do you think Newtonian physics *is*?? And basketball/golf/pool players never think about physics Fercrisskaes, pool is nothing *but* applied physics. Please explain how you would build a pool-playing robot without including some sort of physics module in the AI. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT File Downloading
Dean, In your Applications/Utilities folder, there is something called Disk Utility. If you launch that, then select your hard drive, you can click on the Repair Disk Permissions button. Alternately, I highly recommend the OS X disk utility Cocktail, available here: http://www.macosxcocktail.com/ I would suggest downloading, installing and launching Cocktail, then going to the Pilot pane in Cocktail, make sure all of the boxes are checked, and set it to automatically Restart when it's done. Then let Cocktail do its thing. This will not only repair disk permissions, it will do a bunch of other useful disk maintenance stuff as well. After you run Cocktail and restart, you should try reinstalling the Flash player before you launch any other applications. Finally, I'm not sure why you're still using Internet Explorer on a Mac. Safari is far better. Unless you have some sort of online banking service (or something) that doesn't work with Safari, I would recommend at least giving Safari a try. Microsoft are no longer developing Internet Explorer for Mac OS, so the browser is effectively dead in the water. If you don't like Safari, there's always Firefox, Camino, OmniWeb, or Opera. They are all far superior to Internet Explorer. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 07 Feb 2005, at 5:54 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Sorry .. I didn't catch your post. How does one go about repairing the disk? Dean On Feb 7, 2005, at 2:47 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Dean M. Estabrook / 05.2.7 / 05:34 PM wrote: I went to the site you gave me, and got the Flash Player Install icon on my desk top. However, every time I attempt to install it, when it opens Internet Explorer 5.1 automatically, that application always unexpectedly quits. More confusing is, that normally I run Explorer 5.2. Any thoughts Did you try repairing permission and repairing disk as I suggested before? I think your system is unstable. DiskWarrior might be in order as well. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale I know what public school music has done for me. I have witnessed the journey it has provided my daughter and hundreds of other students I have been fortunate enough to teach. I am both amazed and outraged that there are those who would knowingly disenfranchise generations of humans by excising the practice and inculcation of an entire heritage from our childrens curricula. Dean M. Estabrook Retired Church Musician Composer, Arranger Adjudicator Amateur Golfer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
