Re: [Finale] Scanning printed music into Finale
Hmm, funny, I remember reading this on the Finalemusic.com site. http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/features/enteringnotes/scanning.aspx Stephen Ellis wrote: Is there a third-party software that will actually allow you to scan music and use it in Finale? Sees like I heard about one some time ago for Windows (but not for Macs). Any thoughts? Steve ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is actually that the trumpet has become the all-purpose instrument, needed for orchestral work, jazz band work, and marching band work. The cornet, especially one played with the proper mouthpiece and technique, is a vanishing voice out of choice, and not because instruments are not available. It's not just the wind band that needs it. Lots of French music of the 19th C., from Berlioz to Dukas (some demanding passages in Sorcerer's Apprentice), has both cornet and trumpet parts, and differentiates them markedly; it is specified in some Tchaikovsky ballets and Prokofiev's Lieutenat Kijé also. I would expect historically informed conductors like Norrington (who did the Brahms symphonies with a near approximation to the original instruments about 10 years ago) and Rattle to insist on having the right instrument. -- Ken Moore ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Sure -- I'm always open to new possibilities and even if it won't be right for my community band, I speak with others for whom it might be a perfect fit. Thanks! David Aaron Rabushka wrote: I don't know yet--it's only been out a few weeks. The wind ensemble marking was MMB's idea rather than mine. Would you like me ot send you a promo-blurb, David? Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk - Original Message - From: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And, as one who can be excessively finicky about which instrument plays what, I swore a long time ago that the word band would never appear on any of my title pages precisely because of its imprecise meaning. It's interesting that MMB Music wrote Wind Ensemble on my recently published Haydn overture transcription (which, btw, includes a specially transposed oboe part for an obbligato clarinet to be used if no oboe is available). Interesting -- how many copies have been sold? As the director of a community band I don't even bother looking at scores marked Wind Ensemble because of the more finicky instrumentation requirements. Which really doesn't matter much except to me and my band, but I am curious about the sales figures (not specifics, of course, but have you sold a few some a lot enough to retire on) since all the other community band directors I know feel the same way. - David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT permission to set poems
Noel Stoutenburg wrote: dhbailey wrote: MB wrote: [snip] In 1992, Congress enacted a law that made renewal automatic for works published between 1964 and 1978. However, if a work was published [snip] This baffles me, since the 1978 rewrite of the U.S. Copyright law automatically extended the term for works which were then in their first or second copyright term to be a total of 75 years. so anything copyrighted after 1964 was still in its first copyright term and was thus automatically extended. Based upon my experience, I interpret the 1992 as a misprint or typo. My recollection is that the automatic renewal was actually made part of US copyright law in 1962, taking effect for music which renewed in 1964. 1962 makes much more sense. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Removing alternate clefs indications
Lora Crighton wrote: --- John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is a perfectly ordinary Incipit, showing the original clefs, key signature and mensuration sign. That information is important, and I'm not sure why you want to delete it. I would always include that in any edition of mine, if I knew how to insert it. There are probably better ways, but I did a lot of music with the incipit as system one, and the music starting in system two, which I dragged up to be beside the incipit. I get this very strange first chord if I play the file back - if I ever want to save a midi file, I will have to figure out how to make it not start on the first measure. I do such things by creating the clefs/notes in one file and then exporting exactly what I want as a graphic, then importing that graphic into the new score. That way it has no effect on measure numbers nor on playback. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Ken Moore wrote: John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is actually that the trumpet has become the all-purpose instrument, needed for orchestral work, jazz band work, and marching band work. The cornet, especially one played with the proper mouthpiece and technique, is a vanishing voice out of choice, and not because instruments are not available. It's not just the wind band that needs it. Lots of French music of the 19th C., from Berlioz to Dukas (some demanding passages in Sorcerer's Apprentice), has both cornet and trumpet parts, and differentiates them markedly; it is specified in some Tchaikovsky ballets and Prokofiev's Lieutenat Kijé also. I would expect historically informed conductors like Norrington (who did the Brahms symphonies with a near approximation to the original instruments about 10 years ago) and Rattle to insist on having the right instrument. I would expect that with cornets fairly common these days that more than just specialty conductors would request the accurate instrumentation, just as they do for all the other instruments. Smaller college, high school and community orchestras would be where I would expect to find all the parts played on trumpets. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scanning printed music into Finale
Stephen Ellis wrote: Is there a third-party software that will actually allow you to scan music and use it in Finale? Sees like I heard about one some time ago for Windows (but not for Macs). Any thoughts? Sharpeye, available from www.recordare.com will produce MusicXML output which can then be imported into Finale. In my opinion this is the most accurate music scanning software on the market (at least it was when I last tested it, which I haven't done in the past year or so) but still leaves problems which need to be corrected by hand. It translates the most information, but with so much still to be done by hand, it is still (in my opinion) easier for most music to simply enter it from scratch into Finale. For modern editions which are cleanly printed on paper with no extraneous marks, scanning works very well with Sharpeye. For older music on less clear printing, it's less accurate, and don't even think about it for handwritten music. You are aware of the lite scanning software that comes with Finale, aren't you? There is a more full-blown version available at a discount for Finale users. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
dhbailey wrote: Ken Moore wrote: John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is actually that the trumpet has become the all-purpose instrument, needed for orchestral work, jazz band work, and marching band work. The cornet, especially one played with the proper mouthpiece and technique, is a vanishing voice out of choice, and not because instruments are not available. It's not just the wind band that needs it. Lots of French music of the 19th C., from Berlioz to Dukas (some demanding passages in Sorcerer's Apprentice), has both cornet and trumpet parts, and differentiates them markedly; it is specified in some Tchaikovsky ballets and Prokofiev's Lieutenat Kijé also. I would expect historically informed conductors like Norrington (who did the Brahms symphonies with a near approximation to the original instruments about 10 years ago) and Rattle to insist on having the right instrument. I would expect that with cornets fairly common these days that more than just specialty conductors would request the accurate instrumentation, just as they do for all the other instruments. Smaller college, high school and community orchestras would be where I would expect to find all the parts played on trumpets. With pro orchestras cornet use varies a lot according to preferences of players and conductors. It is common to see all the parts played on trumpets. Raymond Horton ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
dhbailey wrote: Ken Moore wrote: John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is actually that the trumpet has become the all-purpose instrument, needed for orchestral work, jazz band work, and marching band work. The cornet, especially one played with the proper mouthpiece and technique, is a vanishing voice out of choice, and not because instruments are not available. It's not just the wind band that needs it. Lots of French music of the 19th C., from Berlioz to Dukas (some demanding passages in Sorcerer's Apprentice), has both cornet and trumpet parts, and differentiates them markedly; it is specified in some Tchaikovsky ballets and Prokofiev's Lieutenat Kijé also. I would expect historically informed conductors like Norrington (who did the Brahms symphonies with a near approximation to the original instruments about 10 years ago) and Rattle to insist on having the right instrument. I would expect that with cornets fairly common these days that more than just specialty conductors would request the accurate instrumentation, just as they do for all the other instruments. Smaller college, high school and community orchestras would be where I would expect to find all the parts played on trumpets. One more thing - in Berlioz, and a few lessers of the time, the difference was more than sound. The trumpets were natural, the cornets valved.That distinction was gone by Tchaikovsky. RBH ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scanning printed music into Finale
I have read that as well. Have you any experience with it? I am interested in actual use, not company hype! On Aug 26, 2007, at 2:57 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Hmm, funny, I remember reading this on the Finalemusic.com site. http://www.finalemusic.com/finale/features/enteringnotes/scanning.aspx Stephen Ellis wrote: Is there a third-party software that will actually allow you to scan music and use it in Finale? Sees like I heard about one some time ago for Windows (but not for Macs). Any thoughts? Steve ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scanning printed music into Finale
Stephen Ellis / 2007/08/26 / 01:12 AM wrote: Is there a third-party software that will actually allow you to scan music and use it in Finale? Sees like I heard about one some time ago for Windows (but not for Macs). Any thoughts? A few years ago, I scanned my own music as TIF then brought it to FinMac natively without 3rd party app. Has this been changed? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT permission to set poems
At 11:06 PM 8/23/2007 -0600, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Section (h) (8) (A) explicitly defines source country for the purposes of of Title 17 Section 104, as A nation other than the United States. Accordingly, (h) (6) (B) specifically applies to items in the public domain in the United States, but subject to copyright in some other place. Furthermore, even if the United States were a source country for purposes of these sections, (h) (6) (B) limits applicability of the section to works which are not in the public domain in [their] source country through expiration of term of protection. But until 1963, in order for the term of protection to be extended, the copyright had to be renewed, and if it was not renewed, the copyright expired and the work entered the public domain through expiration of term of copyright, and therefore are ineligible because they fail to meet the test of (h) (6) (B). What a difference a conjunction makes. Most of the tests of that law are joined by or. The next to last item on the (h)(6)(C) list ends with and. You're absolutely right, and I've been wrong about that for years. Yikes. At least I was wrong in a more strict direction, and didn't get my own work into hot water because of it. Back in my cute-but-dumb days, I set several forbidden texts, and the compositions are now not publishable or even performable (technically, anyway). Good pieces, too. Now I search only for older texts with a contemporary feel because it's too much hassle to use new ones ... discouraging to have the creative process underway, and then navigate the permissions cycle only to receive a no -- or worse, to receive no answer. The same goes for thematic source material. (Anyone who has followed the James Joyce saga knows how insane the whole copyright protection business can become in the hands of a psychotic heir.) What a sad state of affairs that artists and composers and writers can't grow the culture with cross-references from recent experiences -- at least unless that have a handsome bank account to pay exploitive copyright owners or defend against the lawsuits. Remixes and mashups and plunderphonics have made incredible contributions to the musical art. From Tenney's Blue Suede onward through 2 Live Crew to Danger Mouse, the crazy legal situation has been constantly tested. Maybe being on the legal fringes contributes to the excitement of the creativity. My own sampling pieces from the early 1970s are probably illegal now, but were thrilling to write then. Argh. Thanks much, Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Sibelius demo in the MD public schools
The boys from Sibelius ran a marketing demo for the General Music teachers in the public schools. I teach Instrumental Music at 4 elementary schools and did not see the demo, but EVERY general music teacher I run into can't stop talking bout how cool Sibelius is. During my 30+ years of public school teaching, I have seen this kind of thing before. Commodore used to dominate the educational profession in my schools. They lost out to Apple, who in turn, lost out to Dell. In each case, the newcomer was better at marketing and more interested in cornering the market. Now I am seeing Sibelius stick it to Finale. I have not used Sibelius, nor do I intend to, but I am concerned to see MakeMusic take a back seat to any other notation software. On this list, I hear mostly complaints about Finale. Why is MakeMusic willing to take this kind of beating? For my purposes, (small ensembles), Finale is just fine and I have no complaints. It used to be that I could endorse Finale without reservation. Now, I am not so sure. Is Sibelius as good as it appears to be? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius demo in the MD public schools
What I don't get is why some schools are using Sibelius, like pushing it hard in arranging classes, yet at the same time using SmartMusic in class..it is like they forget totally about Finale..I'm surprised that MakeMusic doesn't offer some sort of incentive program for schools to buy SmartMusic and Finale at the same time for a discount Lawrence David Eden wrote: The boys from Sibelius ran a marketing demo for the General Music teachers in the public schools. I teach Instrumental Music at 4 elementary schools and did not see the demo, but EVERY general music teacher I run into can't stop talking bout how cool Sibelius is. During my 30+ years of public school teaching, I have seen this kind of thing before. Commodore used to dominate the educational profession in my schools. They lost out to Apple, who in turn, lost out to Dell. In each case, the newcomer was better at marketing and more interested in cornering the market. Now I am seeing Sibelius stick it to Finale. I have not used Sibelius, nor do I intend to, but I am concerned to see MakeMusic take a back seat to any other notation software. On this list, I hear mostly complaints about Finale. Why is MakeMusic willing to take this kind of beating? For my purposes, (small ensembles), Finale is just fine and I have no complaints. It used to be that I could endorse Finale without reservation. Now, I am not so sure. Is Sibelius as good as it appears to be? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
I have found that trumpeters who do not play cornet will insist that there is no difference between the two instruments. OTH, cornetists will insist that a marked difference exists. As both a band and orchestra conductor I do recognize a difference in the sound. Mind you, I grew up (mid-50s) playing in bands with large contingents of both instruments. The comment about Tschaikovsky's use reminds me that Capriccio Italien calls for both cornets and trumpets. For a guest conducting gig a while back I asked for both instruments in Berlioz' orchestration of von Weber's Invitation to the Dance. None of the regular trumpeters owned cornets so auxiliary players were engaged for the parts, causing bit of grumping by the trumpeters! I have heard that Clarke commented that he could not understand why anyone would want to play cornet parts on the trumpet. Maybe he knew something about the different sound from the two? Guy Hayden -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Raymond Horton Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 10:28 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music dhbailey wrote: Ken Moore wrote: John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is actually that the trumpet has become the all-purpose instrument, needed for orchestral work, jazz band work, and marching band work. The cornet, especially one played with the proper mouthpiece and technique, is a vanishing voice out of choice, and not because instruments are not available. It's not just the wind band that needs it. Lots of French music of the 19th C., from Berlioz to Dukas (some demanding passages in Sorcerer's Apprentice), has both cornet and trumpet parts, and differentiates them markedly; it is specified in some Tchaikovsky ballets and Prokofiev's Lieutenat Kijé also. I would expect historically informed conductors like Norrington (who did the Brahms symphonies with a near approximation to the original instruments about 10 years ago) and Rattle to insist on having the right instrument. I would expect that with cornets fairly common these days that more than just specialty conductors would request the accurate instrumentation, just as they do for all the other instruments. Smaller college, high school and community orchestras would be where I would expect to find all the parts played on trumpets. With pro orchestras cornet use varies a lot according to preferences of players and conductors. It is common to see all the parts played on trumpets. Raymond Horton ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Guy Hayden wrote: I have found that trumpeters who do not play cornet will insist that there is no difference between the two instruments. OTH, cornetists will insist that a marked difference exists. As both a band and orchestra conductor I do recognize a difference in the sound. Mind you, I grew up (mid-50s) playing in bands with large contingents of both instruments. The comment about Tschaikovsky's use reminds me that Capriccio Italien calls for both cornets and trumpets. For a guest conducting gig a while back I asked for both instruments in Berlioz' orchestration of von Weber's Invitation to the Dance. None of the regular trumpeters owned cornets so auxiliary players were engaged for the parts, causing bit of grumping by the trumpeters! I have heard that Clarke commented that he could not understand why anyone would want to play cornet parts on the trumpet. Maybe he knew something about the different sound from the two? Guy Hayden As a trumpet player, I find the difference between the trumpet and cornet to be very pronounced, though some players do what they can to minimize the differences. A lot can be done with mouthpiece selection to make the difference more or less pronounced, but ideally a cornet should have a warm, round sound, while a trumpet should have a bright, clear sound. Also, as has been said before, trumpets project much better than cornets. When I get a call for a gig that calls for cornet, I bring one, and when I play jazz in small intimate settings I prefer to play cornet, but the vast majority of calls are for trumpet. And flugelhorn is a whole other can of worms. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
And while we're on the subject, my current project calls for three players to alternate quite often between fluegelhorns and trumpets. Can any of the trumpeters here enlighten me as to whether orchestral trumpters would have preferences for the trumpet parts to be written in B-flat or C in these circumstances? Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Hey Aaron, It will definitely be easier on the player to write for Bb trumpet doubling fluegelhorn, so that the entire part is in Bb. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Aug 2007, at 1:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And while we're on the subject, my current project calls for three players to alternate quite often between fluegelhorns and trumpets. Can any of the trumpeters here enlighten me as to whether orchestral trumpters would have preferences for the trumpet parts to be written in B-flat or C in these circumstances? Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius demo in the MD public schools
At 12:06 PM -0400 8/26/07, Lawrence David Eden wrote: Now I am seeing Sibelius stick it to Finale. I have not used Sibelius, nor do I intend to, but I am concerned to see MakeMusic take a back seat to any other notation software. On this list, I hear mostly complaints about Finale. Why is MakeMusic willing to take this kind of beating? For my purposes, (small ensembles), Finale is just fine and I have no complaints. It used to be that I could endorse Finale without reservation. Now, I am not so sure. Is Sibelius as good as it appears to be? I've never taken a marketing course, but some things seem clear. Given equally good products, aggressive marketing will take over market share. Just look at the automobile companies, or the soft drink companies! Yes, we really are dumb enough and predictable enough to develop brand loyalty, just as males really are responsive to good makeup worn by females, and have been since Cleopatra and Marc Antony!! Given a good product with low key marketing, and a poor product with aggressive marketing, it seems to get a lot more complicated. The aggressive marketing is going to gain market share at first, but the customers it gains will become disillusioned by the poor product and will not only switch, but will never come back to a company that has burned them. I think. The concern expressed on this list has been that Finale is well on its way to becoming a poor product, riddled with unfixed bugs and with an unrealistic marketing plan, and that truly does seem to be the case. At the moment Sibelius is not only marketing more aggressively, but they are clearly ahead in the matters of development time between releases, customer service and attention to customer wishes, and functionality right out of the box without needing a degree in computer programming. That may, of course, change in the future, if Finale lasts long enough to recognize and fix their problems, and if Sibelius gets overconfident. But neither is happening right now. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
On 26-Aug-07, at 1:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And while we're on the subject, my current project calls for three players to alternate quite often between fluegelhorns and trumpets. Can any of the trumpeters here enlighten me as to whether orchestral trumpters would have preferences for the trumpet parts to be written in B-flat or C in these circumstances? The players I write for prefer modern parts notated in Bb (though of course they can read anything!) Most of the repertoire is written for Bb, and the ones that prefer to play C as their main instrument (most of them) are so used to reading Bb parts that anything else risks confusion, especially switching back and forth to Bb flugel. There IS kind of a Bb splat that I miss sometimes when I hear certain music played on C trumpet, but that is so nit-picky that I shouldn't really say anything, and leave it up to the players. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Guy Hayden wrote: I have found that trumpeters who do not play cornet will insist that there is no difference between the two instruments. I suspect that you would also find that those players use mouthpieces with the same cup, throat, and rim as their trumpet mouthpieces, the only difference being the smaller shank. And the single most important difference in tone quality and flexibility is the difference between a true cornet mouthpiece and a true trumpet mouthpiece. Trumpet mouthpieces have also tended to adopt smaller inside dimensions over the years. I understand that Vincent Bach's own mouthpieces was the equivalent of the Bach 1C. I played a 3C for many years, which was quite large enough for me, while my companions usually went for the 10 1/2 C. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
At 3:17 PM -0400 8/26/07, John Howell wrote: Guy Hayden wrote: I have found that trumpeters who do not play cornet will insist that there is no difference between the two instruments. I suspect that you would also find that those players use mouthpieces with the same cup, throat, and rim as their trumpet mouthpieces, the only difference being the smaller shank. And the single most important difference in tone quality and flexibility is the difference between a true cornet mouthpiece and a true trumpet mouthpiece. Trumpet mouthpieces have also tended to adopt smaller inside dimensions over the years. I understand that Vincent Bach's own mouthpieces was the equivalent of the Bach 1C. I played a 3C for many years, which was quite large enough for me, while my companions usually went for the 10 1/2 C. Oops! I just realized that I misread your sentence, but I think my comment is still valid John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Sounds logical to me, but I wanted to double-check. Thanks! Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk - Original Message - From: Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music Hey Aaron, It will definitely be easier on the player to write for Bb trumpet doubling fluegelhorn, so that the entire part is in Bb. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 26 Aug 2007, at 1:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And while we're on the subject, my current project calls for three players to alternate quite often between fluegelhorns and trumpets. Can any of the trumpeters here enlighten me as to whether orchestral trumpters would have preferences for the trumpet parts to be written in B-flat or C in these circumstances? Aaron J. Rabushka [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://users.waymark.net/arabushk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT permission to set poems
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Back in my cute-but-dumb days, I set several forbidden texts, and the compositions are now not publishable or even performable (technically, anyway). Good pieces, too. It seems to me that there is a creative way around this, though finding a publisher might be a challenge. I conceived of this scheme in reference to strophic texts, inspired by 19th century U.S. hymnals, where it was quite common to include words with no music, the accompanist being obliged to supply the music from a tune book, which contained mostly lyrics, but few words. I note that hymns are almost all strophic, and that the scheme I describe may not work as well for texts in other forms. Now, since copyright prevents is your making a copy of the covered material without permission, don't include most of the words of the text of the copyright material in your setting. Rather, you music everything else that would be in the printed score: notes, performance directions, tempi, dynamics, c. Where the lyric would customarily be printed, include only the punctuation, and perhaps the occasional word or short phrase from the intended text, as these are explicitly not copyrightable. You could apparently link your music to the text by giving it the same title as the text which inspired it, as titles are not copyrightable in the U.S. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scanning printed music into Finale
A-NO-NE Music wrote: Stephen Ellis / 2007/08/26 / 01:12 AM wrote: Is there a third-party software that will actually allow you to scan music and use it in Finale? Sees like I heard about one some time ago for Windows (but not for Macs). Any thoughts? A few years ago, I scanned my own music as TIF then brought it to FinMac natively without 3rd party app. Has this been changed? Well, the module of FinMac which imported it was what many people think of as music scanning software -- it's a separate module which interprets the TIF data and converts it into Finale notation data. It's SmartScore Lite which does the interpreting of the TIF data and can control the scanner to get the music scanned to a TIF. The full version of SmartScore supposedly does a better job than the Lite version which comes as part of Finale. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius demo in the MD public schools
Lawrence David Eden wrote: The boys from Sibelius ran a marketing demo for the General Music teachers in the public schools. I teach Instrumental Music at 4 elementary schools and did not see the demo, but EVERY general music teacher I run into can't stop talking bout how cool Sibelius is. During my 30+ years of public school teaching, I have seen this kind of thing before. Commodore used to dominate the educational profession in my schools. They lost out to Apple, who in turn, lost out to Dell. In each case, the newcomer was better at marketing and more interested in cornering the market. Now I am seeing Sibelius stick it to Finale. I have not used Sibelius, nor do I intend to, but I am concerned to see MakeMusic take a back seat to any other notation software. On this list, I hear mostly complaints about Finale. Why is MakeMusic willing to take this kind of beating? For my purposes, (small ensembles), Finale is just fine and I have no complaints. It used to be that I could endorse Finale without reservation. Now, I am not so sure. Is Sibelius as good as it appears to be? You'll never find 100% agreement with any such statement, but I have been working very intensively with Sibelius on a project which is just about complete, and I can say that it sure is easier to work with than recent versions of Finale. But I would balance that statement with for my purposes and for the projects on which I have used it. My recent discovery that ctrl-3 no longer initiates a triplet in speedy entry sure added another nail to the Finale coffin for me. But I also would not encourage anybody to make a switch to Sibelius on my say-so -- it's not for everybody. But the tenor of the threads on the two lists (this Finale list and the yahoogroups Sibelius list) are very different. On the Sibelius list these days it's like my early days on the Finale list -- everybody helping everybody else with very few complaints about the program itself. And interestingly enough, when I first joined the Sibelius list, it was like the Finale list is these days, many people complaining about what the program couldn't do or how it was hard to get it to do what it could do. But all that is reversed these days, so that this Finale list is mostly complaints and the Sibelius list is mostly encouragement and assistance. I really like working with Sibelius and was able to adapt to using midi keyboard for pitch and the numpad keys to specify duration much more quickly than I had imagined I would be able to. If Finale works for you, there's no need (yet) to consider changing. But with the Finale reports of removing the Speedy Entry tool while moving it's various elements to other tools, I see a dim and fading future for Finale. New users may have a great time with Simple Entry, but I find that it takes just a bit longer to get the same results in Simple Entry than in Sibelius' entry mode. MakeMusic is willing to take this beating because they have set their sights on SmartMusic Accompaniment Software as their saving product which is where the bulk of their development money seems to be going (lack of promised levels of new smartmusic accompaniment files notwithstanding) and they are viewing Finale as a necessary evil to generate yearly upgrade fees to keep the company afloat. They can't even keep their two main products (Finale and Smartmusic) at the same level, according to complaints on this list, so that Finale2008-generated SmartMusic accompaniment files can't work with the existing Smartmusic software. Someone didn't think that through very carefully. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius demo in the MD public schools
John Howell wrote: Given a good product with low key marketing, and a poor product with aggressive marketing, it seems to get a lot more complicated. The aggressive marketing is going to gain market share at first, but the customers it gains will become disillusioned by the poor product and will not only switch, but will never come back to a company that has burned them. I think. There are a couple of considerations not mentioned here, though. eMedia Music resells Finale Allegro and Finale PrintMusic and Finale Songwriter, but includes no titles whatsoever from Sibelius, and there is a major price advantage between these titles, for which Sibelius has no direct analogue, and the full Sibelius package. And while I suspect most of us on this list have given only cursory glances at Finale Notepad, Sibelius doesn't offer anything like this, either, and nif you are willing to acquire it through download, Notepad is free! If your competitor has product you don't which might divert part of your future customer base, you have to have a more aggressive marketing program. Further, I noted that Sibelius is marketing to General Music teachers in public schools. I don't know how titles work in MD (or in most places, actually) but when I read the title General Music Teacher, I think of a grades 1-3 or 1-4, where music education is mostly singing, with the occasional percussion or perhaps a few weeks of instruction on recorder. SmartMusic is mostly an instrumental product, and therefore mostly marketed to teachers later, I suspect Sibelius is marketing to general Music teachers because they are at a substantial disadvantage with music teachers of the later years who teach instruments. I also wonder how many general music teachers are really going to use Sibelius? I know several, and based upon what I know of Sibelius, while the ones I know would rave about how cool it is, it is not a product that they would ever buy or use, as it is far more horsepower than they can use The concern expressed on this list has been that Finale is well on its way to becoming a poor product, riddled with unfixed bugs and with an unrealistic marketing plan, and that truly does seem to be the case. At the moment Sibelius is not only marketing more aggressively, but they are clearly ahead I'm not sure Sibelius IS ahead. While there has been comment on this list about how it is perceived to be ahead, I'm not sure how widely this perception is in the larger set of users of music notation products. For example, you may remember that several years ago, when Finale was owned by Net4Music, Hal Leonard chose Sibelius' scorch to use for Sheetmusic direct, and still uses the product there. I don't know whether there was any impact on HL's decision to adopt Scorch by the fact that Net4Music had a capability like the Finale Showcase, which allowed composers to post their own music, but which had the added capability of allowing the owner to charge money for the download. At this time, there was a Finale Music Viewer browser plug-in. Well, around the time that Hal Leonard adopted Scorch, the Finale Music Viewer was dropped in favor of opening files with Notepad, and the capabilities of Net4Music were divided; the Net4Music website redirects to MakeMusic, and the download was sold to another entity, but I don't remember now exactly which one. Interestingly enough, I was reviewing the Finale website earlier this year, and found that the Finale Music Viewer was back, and that there was at testimonial about the product from none other than the President of Hal Leonard. A little later, I learned that S~ now has an on-line music store wherein composers can offer for sale their own work. More recently, I learned another interesting fact which may or may not be related: if one goes to purchase music through the Hal Leonard related site, www.sheetmusicdirect.us, one still uses Sibelius' scorch viewer to download scores. If one visits the _other_ Hal Leonard related sites, BandMusic direct, Orchestra music direct, and Choral Music direct, one finds they do not use Scorch technology; instead they use the new Finale Music Viewer (cf: http://www.bandmusicdirect.com/en/US/help/helpGettingStarted.jsp)! One wonders how much Hal Leonard had to do with the development of Linked parts. I would note, too, that in the several music lists in which I participate in, that since the first of the year I've noticed about twice as many users commenting that they are switching away Sibelius to Finale than mentioned they were switching from Finale to Sibelius. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT permission to set poems
At 3:09 PM -0600 8/26/07, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Back in my cute-but-dumb days, I set several forbidden texts, and the compositions are now not publishable or even performable (technically, anyway). Good pieces, too. It seems to me that there is a creative way around this, though finding a publisher might be a challenge. I conceived of this scheme in reference to strophic texts, inspired by 19th century U.S. hymnals, where it was quite common to include words with no music, the accompanist being obliged to supply the music from a tune book, which contained mostly lyrics, but few words. I note that hymns are almost all strophic, and that the scheme I describe may not work as well for texts in other forms. Now, since copyright prevents is your making a copy of the covered material without permission, don't include most of the words of the text of the copyright material in your setting. Rather, you music everything else that would be in the printed score: notes, performance directions, tempi, dynamics, c. Where the lyric would customarily be printed, include only the punctuation, and perhaps the occasional word or short phrase from the intended text, as these are explicitly not copyrightable. You could apparently link your music to the text by giving it the same title as the text which inspired it, as titles are not copyrightable in the U.S. But you still wouldn't have, and couldn't have, without permission, the text, so the logic of what your suggest escapes me. What would be the point? John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius demo in the MD public schools
At 4:32 PM -0600 8/26/07, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Further, I noted that Sibelius is marketing to General Music teachers in public schools. I don't know how titles work in MD (or in most places, actually) but when I read the title General Music Teacher, I think of a grades 1-3 or 1-4, where music education is mostly singing, with the occasional percussion or perhaps a few weeks of instruction on recorder. SmartMusic is mostly an instrumental product, and therefore mostly marketed to teachers later, I suspect Sibelius is marketing to general Music teachers because they are at a substantial disadvantage with music teachers of the later years who teach instruments. I also wonder how many general music teachers are really going to use Sibelius? I know several, and based upon what I know of Sibelius, while the ones I know would rave about how cool it is, it is not a product that they would ever buy or use, as it is far more horsepower than they can use Noel, with respect, I think you're comparing apples and hamburgers. You're thinking only about the notation programs, but a very brief visit to the Sibelius.com website will show you that they have been VERY busy developing educational suites specifically aimed at general music classes in the elementary and middle schools, and these materials are specifically designed to help general music teachers teach what they SHOULD be teaching and probably WANT to be teaching, but in fact are NOT teaching. I'm not promoting the products because I'm not familiar with them, but they go far beyond simple notation or whatever it is that SmartMusic is supposed to do. They are doing, in fact, what Apple was canny enough to do back in the '80s, when they deliberately targeted the educational market with the original Apple II and its successors while IBM concentrated on their business customers. They are creating product specifically for the educational market, and putting a lot of resources into selling that product. I didn't search the website thoroughly enough to say whether there are Sibelius lite products like the Finale products, but I seem to recall that there are. The feeling I get, though, is that MakeMusic is concentrating on marketing limited versions of the full program, while Sibelius are expanding into new areas where they see great future potential, WITHOUT disturbing development of the notation program itself. And all general music teachers are not as incompetent as you seem to believe, especially those with advanced Kodály and Orff training and certification. There are some bad ones, of course, but there are a lot of very good ones as well, and I hope that our own graduates are among them. I would note, too, that in the several music lists in which I participate in, that since the first of the year I've noticed about twice as many users commenting that they are switching away Sibelius to Finale than mentioned they were switching from Finale to Sibelius. On the several lists I'm active on, I find that rather than people making either statement, they are more likely to be asking for advice on which notation product to get, and the honest answers usually say something like, it depends on what your needs are, but Sibelius is much easier to work with. If there's any consensus at the moment, that seems to be it. What does anyone know about the European program called something like Harmony Assistant? Someone on another list has been singing its praises and saying it's much more widely used than either Finale or Sibelius. Makes me wonder whether it only runs on a specific OS, like Sibelius in the beginning with the Acorn. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scanning printed music into Finale
I just checked, and it still works with FinMac2k8: File Scanning Import and Existing TIFF File... Note that Finale can't read compressed TIFF file. I also don't know why FinMac doesn't recognize my HP scanner's kernel extension. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius demo in the MD public schools
From: Lawrence David Eden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Finale] Sibelius demo in the MD public schools To: FinaleList Finale@shsu.edu Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ; format=flowed The boys from Sibelius ran a marketing demo for the General Music teachers in the public schools. I teach Instrumental Music at 4 elementary schools and did not see the demo, but EVERY general music teacher I run into can't stop talking bout how cool Sibelius is. During my 30+ years of public school teaching, I have seen this kind of thing before. Commodore used to dominate the educational profession in my schools. They lost out to Apple, who in turn, lost out to Dell. In each case, the newcomer was better at marketing and more interested in cornering the market. Now I am seeing Sibelius stick it to Finale. I have not used Sibelius, nor do I intend to, but I am concerned to see MakeMusic take a back seat to any other notation software. On this list, I hear mostly complaints about Finale. Why is MakeMusic willing to take this kind of beating? For my purposes, (small ensembles), Finale is just fine and I have no complaints. It used to be that I could endorse Finale without reservation. Now, I am not so sure. Is Sibelius as good as it appears to be? The marketing to education here in Australia has been extensive and fabulous, to the extent that Sibelius basically runs in every school and just about every University. It may prove to be a model of what is to come in the US if it hasn't already. Students use Sibelius in schools, then go home and buy it or use cracked copies. The cracked copies have basically negated any advantage offered by Finale Notepad. Through observation and anecdote, very few people in the education sector seem use Finale any more (though the ex-distributor tells me that the Finale sales in the last year were higher than ever, so maybe I'm wrong). The education sector is the beachhead to the wider community. Personally I find Sibelius difficult to use and am full of admiration for those who manage to scores with it. I still consider Finale to be a superior product than Sibelius in many ways, however the thousands of musicians/students/educators/composers who use Sibelius in this country prove me wrong every day. Matthew ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT permission to set poems
John Howell wrote: At 3:09 PM -0600 8/26/07, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Back in my cute-but-dumb days, I set several forbidden texts, and the compositions are now not publishable or even performable (technically, anyway). Good pieces, too. It seems to me that there is a creative way around this, though finding a publisher might be a challenge. I conceived of this scheme in reference to strophic texts, inspired by 19th century U.S. hymnals, where it was quite common to include words with no music, the accompanist being obliged to supply the music from a tune book, which contained mostly lyrics, but few words. I note that hymns are almost all strophic, and that the scheme I describe may not work as well for texts in other forms. Now, since copyright prevents is your making a copy of the covered material without permission, don't include most of the words of the text of the copyright material in your setting. Rather, you music everything else that would be in the printed score: notes, performance directions, tempi, dynamics, c. Where the lyric would customarily be printed, include only the punctuation, and perhaps the occasional word or short phrase from the intended text, as these are explicitly not copyrightable. You could apparently link your music to the text by giving it the same title as the text which inspired it, as titles are not copyrightable in the U.S. But you still wouldn't have, and couldn't have, without permission, the text, so the logic of what your suggest escapes me. What would be the point? John People would buy your music, people would buy a book with the poems in it, and would combine the words and music on their own for performance. I wonder what sort of hot water that would land them in, though, public performance of copyrighted poetry for which no public performance permission was sought and no public performance royalty was paid. The music might be covered by ASCAP or BMI but the poetry probably wouldn't be. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT permission to set poems
On Aug 26, 2007, at 8:07 PM, John Howell wrote: But you still wouldn't have, and couldn't have, without permission, the text, so the logic of what your suggest escapes me. What would be the point? If I write a purely musical piece, with the instruction to be sung to the words of [poem] by [poet] I am not in violation of copyright because I have not actually used the text. If someone, following my instructions, performs the piece with the prescribed text, then they are no more (and no less) in violation of copyright than if they had read the poem aloud without music. Since people read copyrighted poems aloud all the time, I assume the copyright regulations regarding such things are relatively relaxed. I wrote a piece in 1980 that used a poem by Vachel Lindsay, which the Lindsay estate (wh. of course was a corporation) demanded an exhorbitant fee to use. In response to this, I reset the music using only the vowels from the poem, together with an instruction that, upon expiry of the copyright, the full text was to be used instead. I also instructed that *prior* to the expiry of copyright, any performance using the vowels must have a program note explaining the copyright issue involved, and/or present a printed copy of the text. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
I agree with you, David. When I orchestrate or arrange, and want a specific sound from an instrument family, I'll have no qualms about using an alto clarinet (non-doubled) or a couple flugelhorns, or whatever. I mandate that the ensemble find the instrument or don't play the piece; I'm that adamant about it. Glad some people out there feel the same way. - Original Message - From: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music David W. Fenton wrote: [snip] Am I misinterpreting the discussion here? Is my position basically what all y'all were advocating? Or do even university-level and professional bands seldom/never adapt their instrumentation to the music they are playing? I think you would find that the upper level university bands and professional bands will perform as close to the original instrumentation as possible, even to the use of Db piccolos. But the lower level university bands (at those colleges and universities which have more than one band) and all community bands are a lot like high school bands -- if you're a member you expect to play some in every piece. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music
Agree with you, John! Every part is independent! - Original Message - From: John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] Turn-of-the-century Band Music At 2:40 PM -0400 8/25/07, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Aug 24, 2007, at 10:29 PM, John Howell wrote: It's considered prestigious to be the person selected to play the Eb soprano. Same thing is true for the alto, bass, and lower clarinets. When I was in bands (admittedly a long time ago now) it was definitely *not* prestigious to play the alto clarinet, Sorry, out of context. The second sentence was intended to refer to an earlier sentence. But you're quite right about the alto. Directors assign less competent players to the instrument, and then complain that nobody plays alto well. Self-fulfilling prophesy! In my own case, for reasons known only to the gods of statistics, we always have one, often two, and occasionally three alto clarinets in our Community Band, and the ladies who play them are quite competent, so I do write real parts for them and don't just double 3rd clarinet or alto sax. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
