Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Giovanni Andreani]

I also agree, specially if the structure of the phrase is varied by the 
extension of a motive or other smaller part within the musical phrase. 

Giovanni Andreani

> On 10 Dec 2016, at 00:49, Steve Parker  wrote:
> 
> I actually 100% agree. If the stresses are not important then i would go 4/4 
> to 6/4 and I would conduct it as a bar of six.
> If the music is complex then even a minim pulse can be hemiola.
> If I wanted to conduct the crotchets here, I would conduct a 6/4 pattern with 
> minim icthus points.
> 
> The converse is useful as well. If the music is chucking along in cut-common, 
> I would tend to write a 3/2 bar even the music was two dotted minims.
> 
> The original question was (I thought) about the case where the stresses were 
> important?
> Sometimes I write time sigs to just organise the music as best I can, but 
> sometimes I absolutely care about stuff like 3/2 and 6/4 because I can get 
> meaning from it.
> 
> I caught your music once a couple of years ago on BBC radio 3 (I think). It 
> was beyond great!
> 
> Steve P.
> 
> 
>> On 9 Dec 2016, at 22:14, iCloud  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Steve,
>> 
>> The distinction is useful until it’s not.
>> 
>> If I have a fast piece in 2/2, conducted in 2, and then I need a bar that’s 
>> elongated by a beat, I’m going to write a bar of 3/2, and conduct that bar 
>> in 3.
>> 
>> If I have a piece in 5/4, conducted in 5, and then I need a bar that’s 
>> elongated by a beat, I’m going to write a bar of 6/4, and conduct that bar 
>> in 6.
>> 
>> If I have a piece in 4/4, conducted in 4, and then I need a bar that’s 
>> elongated by two beats, I’m also going to write a bar of 6/4, and conduct 
>> that bar in 6.
>> 
>> Traditional worries about which parts of the bar are stressed don’t really 
>> apply to my music, and that’s true of much modern music.
>> 
>> That bar of 6 might contain people playing all kinds of syncopations and 
>> over-the-barline rhythms and cross-rhythms. There might not even *be* an 
>> attack on beat 4 to emphasize. Insisting that 3/2 can only be 2+2+2 and 6/4 
>> can *only* be 2+2+2 is a convention that is not useful my music, or in the 
>> music of many (if not most) contemporary composers.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> — DJA
>> -
>> http://secretsocietymusic.org
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2016, 4:23 PM -0500, David H. Bailey 
>>> , wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2016 8:10 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>>> [snip]> Though I've seen it done, alternating notations of 4/4 and 3/2
>>> while keeping
 the quarter-note pulse the same never made sense to me. I would be 
 expecting
 the conductor to switch to /2 pulses.
 
>>> [snip]
>>> 
>>> That's how I conduct that sort of passage -- 4 quarter-note beats
>>> indicated for the 4/4, then 3 half-note beats indicated in the 3/2
>>> measures, each of which is twice as slow as the quarter note beats of
>>> the 4/4 passage. Thus the speed of the quarter note is maintained and
>>> the emphasis as implied by the meter is indicated, putting the stress on
>>> 1, 3, 5 in the 3/2 sections as the original poster intends.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> David H. Bailey
>>> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>>> ___
>>> Finale mailing list
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>>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>> 
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Re: [Finale] Reliable way to combine multiple files

[John Roberts]

I do this sort of thing a lot, and have always used PageMaker or InDesign for 
the final document, exporting from the individual Finale files via eps (in the 
old days) or pdf (much better). If you don’t own this sort of page layout 
program, do follow Christopher’s advice and find a pdf editor to do the job. 
I’ve never needed one, so I can’t recommend any.

JR



> On Dec 9, 2016, at 9:30 PM, Christopher Smith 
>  wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> What I would certainly do in your case is print them to PDF without page 
> numbers, then compile the individual pages into one PDF with a PDF editor 
> that can add page numbers (there are many free or cheap ones).
> 
> If you were to use the Score Merger you would have terrible problems with 
> titles, etc. from the merge process, not to mention baselines and the like 
> would be messed up, unless they were scrupulously preserved from one document 
> to another, which I am reasonably certain is not the case.
> 
> Where the Score Merger is useful is when you have to combine two, three or 
> four movements of a longer work, where you WANT everything to be consistently 
> preserved from one movement to another, and you can mess with the movement 
> titles individually. You DON’T want to redo those 200 times.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 8:29 PM, John Witmer  wrote:
>> 
>> Robert,
>> I need your advice. I'm in the process of completing a 200 song compendium 
>> using Finale 2014.5  When it is finished, (I promised it would be ready 
>> "early" in 2017), I'll need to merge the individual charts for a single 
>> document. This is for the sole use of a retirement community, but they'll 
>> need about 100 copies. I believe I have volunteers who will fund the 
>> printing, but I need to get good copy. 
>> 
>> Now, is Finale 25 good enough to undertake this task, or should I finish it 
>> with Finale 2014.5? Either way, I'm afraid it will be a real chore. If all 
>> else fails, I'll have to print 200 separate charts and collate them. This 
>> will be hard because I need to print most pages "back-to-back" to keep the 
>> total size less than an unabridged dictionary.
>> 
>> Your advice would be gratefully appreciated.
>> Chordially,
>> John Witmer
>> Clemson Downs Retirement Community.
>> 
>> On 12/9/2016 5:35:12 PM, Robert Patterson  
>> wrote:
>> I've been messing with the Score Merger function in Finale 25. It does a
>> halfway decent job, but
>> 
>> 1. It fails to copy lyric baseline adjustments (and I would guess probably
>> expression baseline adjustments as well).
>> 2. It idiotically goes nuts if a bar has too many beats (like a hard whole
>> rest in a 2/4 bar, which is frequently required for L1/L2 parts).
>> 3. It makes a mess of lyric text.
>> 4. It doesn't know how to create percussion staves that match the source
>> file, so percussion is a mess.
>> 
>> Does anyone know a better way?
>> ___
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>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
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Re: [Finale] Reliable way to combine multiple files

[Christopher Smith]

John,

What I would certainly do in your case is print them to PDF without page 
numbers, then compile the individual pages into one PDF with a PDF editor that 
can add page numbers (there are many free or cheap ones).

If you were to use the Score Merger you would have terrible problems with 
titles, etc. from the merge process, not to mention baselines and the like 
would be messed up, unless they were scrupulously preserved from one document 
to another, which I am reasonably certain is not the case.

Where the Score Merger is useful is when you have to combine two, three or four 
movements of a longer work, where you WANT everything to be consistently 
preserved from one movement to another, and you can mess with the movement 
titles individually. You DON’T want to redo those 200 times.

Christopher


> On Dec 9, 2016, at 8:29 PM, John Witmer  wrote:
> 
> Robert,
> I need your advice. I'm in the process of completing a 200 song compendium 
> using Finale 2014.5  When it is finished, (I promised it would be ready 
> "early" in 2017), I'll need to merge the individual charts for a single 
> document. This is for the sole use of a retirement community, but they'll 
> need about 100 copies. I believe I have volunteers who will fund the 
> printing, but I need to get good copy. 
> 
> Now, is Finale 25 good enough to undertake this task, or should I finish it 
> with Finale 2014.5? Either way, I'm afraid it will be a real chore. If all 
> else fails, I'll have to print 200 separate charts and collate them. This 
> will be hard because I need to print most pages "back-to-back" to keep the 
> total size less than an unabridged dictionary.
> 
> Your advice would be gratefully appreciated.
> Chordially,
> John Witmer
> Clemson Downs Retirement Community.
> 
> On 12/9/2016 5:35:12 PM, Robert Patterson  wrote:
> I've been messing with the Score Merger function in Finale 25. It does a
> halfway decent job, but
> 
> 1. It fails to copy lyric baseline adjustments (and I would guess probably
> expression baseline adjustments as well).
> 2. It idiotically goes nuts if a bar has too many beats (like a hard whole
> rest in a 2/4 bar, which is frequently required for L1/L2 parts).
> 3. It makes a mess of lyric text.
> 4. It doesn't know how to create percussion staves that match the source
> file, so percussion is a mess.
> 
> Does anyone know a better way?
> ___
> Finale mailing list
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> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
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> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
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> 
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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[John Witmer]

To all you professional musicians, a very large number of Finale users are NOT 
professional musicians. I do quite a bit of notation for non-professional 
singers. They really appreciate the courtesy accidentals (by the way, I have a 
good friend who sincerely believes they should be called "intentionals" rather 
than "accidentals".) Many of you regard the time you spent learning to be a 
"professional musician" entitles you to be more than a little proud. Does it 
really entitle you to look down your nose at an amateur who may have worked 
just as hard to learn the rudiments of music without ever getting a single 
dollar to show for it?
Please don't take this note as an insult; I really appreciate all the comments 
from this group.
John Witmer
Clemson Downs Retirement Community

On 12/9/2016 12:25:00 PM, Raymond Horton  wrote:
some of you folks need to buy a sense of humor!

Raymond Horton
Composer, Arranger
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra, 1971-2016


On Dec 9, 2016 9:38 AM, "Christopher Smith"
wrote:

> I don’t use parenthesized courtesy accidentals any more, either, because
> of lack of legibility. Yet, even a non-parenthesized one is kind of a
> confirmation of “yes this note is meant” since it would otherwise be
> superfluous.
>
> I guess all I’m saying is we’re writing for humans, not a rigorous,
> all-seeing machine. I see no problem with notating that way. I learned that
> partly from you!
>
> C
>
>
> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 9:24 AM, SN jef chippewa
> shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On issues of notation, I always take everything jef says as if it was
> gospel.
> >
> > are you sure that is a good idea? ;-)
> >
>
> Yes. No winky-face.
>
>
> > for new music i never use parentheses for accis.
> > if there is a need, i put the full-size acci; i
> > don't work with key sigs so very very rarely ever
> > encounter a case where it could be useful. my
> > fonts include them (accis + parentheses) but only
> > because i know this is standard in classical and
> > jazz notation.
> >
> > sure, there is no system that is failproof but i aim towards it...
> >
> >
> >> However, a parenthesized courtesy accidental is
> >> a prime example of a notation saying ³this is
> >> not a typo² and a non-parenthesized one is
> >> similar. I sometimes put the eyeglasses glyph
> >> over a passage that is likely to make musicians
> >> look twice, in order to make them look twice and
> >> improve the chances that they will perform it
> >> correctly (this is jazz notation). I think there
> >> are notations that are more authoritarian and
> >> less authoritarian. jef, you must deal with
> >> degrees of aleatoric-ness all the time, no?
> >>
> >> Christopher
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 7:17 AM, SN jef chippewa
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> this issue of apologetic notation is one i come
> >>> across often, more commonly in north america but
> >>> also in europe. i can't speak for jazz
> >>> charts/musicians, but if you are working with
> >>> professional musicians, you MUST take it for
> >>> granted they know what the hell a bartók pizz is,
> >>> or a quarter tone.
> >>>
> >>> no musician working professionally today and
> >>> playing new music can justify ignorance of these
> >>> (and a host of other) basic things.
> >>>
> >>> what happens when the composer notates everything
> >>> is that the musician has to read a novel to
> >>> discover the one thing that is unique or special
> >>> to the composer/notation and given some don't
> >>> read the legend anyways (!) you are making it
> >>> even more likely your notation explanations won't
> >>> get read. at least until after the rehearsals
> >>> without the composer present.
> >>>
> >>> when you overannotate you can also come across as
> >>> condescending to musicians who know what the hell
> >>> a bartók pizz is. again, if they know it and see
> >>> it in your legend, they can easily assume they
> >>> don't need to read any further because you have
> >>> written a score for newbies or high school bands,
> >>> which you should NEVER do.
> >>>
> >>> if the musicians you are working with are
> >>> inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them
> >>> with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but
> >>> prepare a professional score, with only the
> >>> ESSENTIAL information in it. a win-win
> >>> situation: whoever needs the supplement can read
> >>> it, whoever doesn't can make a paper plane out of
> >>> it to throw at the composer during the dress
> >>> rehearsal (i know someone this happened to...).
> >>>
> >>> side note: scans of fingerings from published
> >>> texts should NEVER be included in your score,
> >>> that is a copyright infringement. this is the
> >>> kind of thing that can be sent as a separate
> >>> sheet (along with your glossary, for example).
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> >>> 

Re: [Finale] Reliable way to combine multiple files

[John Witmer]

Robert,
I need your advice. I'm in the process of completing a 200 song compendium 
using Finale 2014.5  When it is finished, (I promised it would be ready "early" 
in 2017), I'll need to merge the individual charts for a single document. This 
is for the sole use of a retirement community, but they'll need about 100 
copies. I believe I have volunteers who will fund the printing, but I need to 
get good copy. 

Now, is Finale 25 good enough to undertake this task, or should I finish it 
with Finale 2014.5? Either way, I'm afraid it will be a real chore. If all else 
fails, I'll have to print 200 separate charts and collate them. This will be 
hard because I need to print most pages "back-to-back" to keep the total size 
less than an unabridged dictionary.

Your advice would be gratefully appreciated.
Chordially,
John Witmer
Clemson Downs Retirement Community.

On 12/9/2016 5:35:12 PM, Robert Patterson  wrote:
I've been messing with the Score Merger function in Finale 25. It does a
halfway decent job, but

1. It fails to copy lyric baseline adjustments (and I would guess probably
expression baseline adjustments as well).
2. It idiotically goes nuts if a bar has too many beats (like a hard whole
rest in a 2/4 bar, which is frequently required for L1/L2 parts).
3. It makes a mess of lyric text.
4. It doesn't know how to create percussion staves that match the source
file, so percussion is a mess.

Does anyone know a better way?
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Re: [Finale] Instruments.txt?

[SN jef chippewa]

check that your finale Preferences/Folders/Configuration Files (on F2014.5, 
names are different on F2010) are set to look up the file in the right place.

> Seems to be working ok, but when I try to create a new file with the Setup
> Wizard, I get the following error message:
> 
> Finale could not start the Wizard because a necessary data file
> (instruments.txt) could not be found in the Component Files folder.
> 
> I've searched for this file in Finder, and it doesn't seem to be there. Is
> there any way to get this file without re-installing 2010? And if I do,
> wouldn't I experience the same problem?
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[Finale] Instruments.txt?

[Michael Dutka]

Hi folks. My 2011 Macbook Pro running Fin 2010 died. I got a new hard drive
and new logic board and reinstalled 2010.

Seems to be working ok, but when I try to create a new file with the Setup
Wizard, I get the following error message:

Finale could not start the Wizard because a necessary data file
(instruments.txt) could not be found in the Component Files folder.

I've searched for this file in Finder, and it doesn't seem to be there. Is
there any way to get this file without re-installing 2010? And if I do,
wouldn't I experience the same problem?

Any suggestions deeply appreciated,

Mike
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Steve Parker]

I actually 100% agree. If the stresses are not important then i would go 4/4 to 
6/4 and I would conduct it as a bar of six.
If the music is complex then even a minim pulse can be hemiola.
If I wanted to conduct the crotchets here, I would conduct a 6/4 pattern with 
minim icthus points.

The converse is useful as well. If the music is chucking along in cut-common, I 
would tend to write a 3/2 bar even the music was two dotted minims.

The original question was (I thought) about the case where the stresses were 
important?
Sometimes I write time sigs to just organise the music as best I can, but 
sometimes I absolutely care about stuff like 3/2 and 6/4 because I can get 
meaning from it.

I caught your music once a couple of years ago on BBC radio 3 (I think). It was 
beyond great!

Steve P.


> On 9 Dec 2016, at 22:14, iCloud  wrote:
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> The distinction is useful until it’s not.
> 
> If I have a fast piece in 2/2, conducted in 2, and then I need a bar that’s 
> elongated by a beat, I’m going to write a bar of 3/2, and conduct that bar in 
> 3.
> 
> If I have a piece in 5/4, conducted in 5, and then I need a bar that’s 
> elongated by a beat, I’m going to write a bar of 6/4, and conduct that bar in 
> 6.
> 
> If I have a piece in 4/4, conducted in 4, and then I need a bar that’s 
> elongated by two beats, I’m also going to write a bar of 6/4, and conduct 
> that bar in 6.
> 
> Traditional worries about which parts of the bar are stressed don’t really 
> apply to my music, and that’s true of much modern music.
> 
> That bar of 6 might contain people playing all kinds of syncopations and 
> over-the-barline rhythms and cross-rhythms. There might not even *be* an 
> attack on beat 4 to emphasize. Insisting that 3/2 can only be 2+2+2 and 6/4 
> can *only* be 2+2+2 is a convention that is not useful my music, or in the 
> music of many (if not most) contemporary composers.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> — DJA
> -
> http://secretsocietymusic.org
> 
> On Dec 8, 2016, 4:23 PM -0500, David H. Bailey 
> , wrote:
>> On 12/8/2016 8:10 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
>> [snip]> Though I've seen it done, alternating notations of 4/4 and 3/2
>> while keeping
>>> the quarter-note pulse the same never made sense to me. I would be expecting
>>> the conductor to switch to /2 pulses.
>>> 
>> [snip]
>> 
>> That's how I conduct that sort of passage -- 4 quarter-note beats
>> indicated for the 4/4, then 3 half-note beats indicated in the 3/2
>> measures, each of which is twice as slow as the quarter note beats of
>> the 4/4 passage. Thus the speed of the quarter note is maintained and
>> the emphasis as implied by the meter is indicated, putting the stress on
>> 1, 3, 5 in the 3/2 sections as the original poster intends.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> David H. Bailey
>> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
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[Finale] Reliable way to combine multiple files

[Robert Patterson]

I've been messing with the Score Merger function in Finale 25. It does a
halfway decent job, but

1. It fails to copy lyric baseline adjustments (and I would guess probably
expression baseline adjustments as well).
2. It idiotically goes nuts if a bar has too many beats (like a hard whole
rest in a 2/4 bar, which is frequently required for L1/L2 parts).
3. It makes a mess of lyric text.
4. It doesn't know how to create percussion staves that match the source
file, so percussion is a mess.

Does anyone know a better way?
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[iCloud]

Hi Steve,

The distinction is useful until it’s not.

If I have a fast piece in 2/2, conducted in 2, and then I need a bar that’s 
elongated by a beat, I’m going to write a bar of 3/2, and conduct that bar in 3.

If I have a piece in 5/4, conducted in 5, and then I need a bar that’s 
elongated by a beat, I’m going to write a bar of 6/4, and conduct that bar in 6.

If I have a piece in 4/4, conducted in 4, and then I need a bar that’s 
elongated by two beats, I’m also going to write a bar of 6/4, and conduct that 
bar in 6.

Traditional worries about which parts of the bar are stressed don’t really 
apply to my music, and that’s true of much modern music.

That bar of 6 might contain people playing all kinds of syncopations and 
over-the-barline rhythms and cross-rhythms. There might not even *be* an attack 
on beat 4 to emphasize. Insisting that 3/2 can only be 2+2+2 and 6/4 can *only* 
be 2+2+2 is a convention that is not useful my music, or in the music of many 
(if not most) contemporary composers.

Cheers,

— DJA
-
http://secretsocietymusic.org

On Dec 8, 2016, 4:23 PM -0500, David H. Bailey 
, wrote:
> On 12/8/2016 8:10 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:
> [snip]> Though I've seen it done, alternating notations of 4/4 and 3/2
> while keeping
> > the quarter-note pulse the same never made sense to me. I would be expecting
> > the conductor to switch to /2 pulses.
> >
> [snip]
>
> That's how I conduct that sort of passage -- 4 quarter-note beats
> indicated for the 4/4, then 3 half-note beats indicated in the 3/2
> measures, each of which is twice as slow as the quarter note beats of
> the 4/4 passage. Thus the speed of the quarter note is maintained and
> the emphasis as implied by the meter is indicated, putting the stress on
> 1, 3, 5 in the 3/2 sections as the original poster intends.
>
>
> --
> David H. Bailey
> dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
> ___
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[Finale] A Mystery

[Neal Gittleman]

Perhaps the collective wisdom can help me solve a playback mystery…

Shortly after it released, I upgraded to FinMac25.  Ever since then I haven’t 
been able to get any playback of Garritan instruments…not in 25, nor in 2014.5, 
where, prior to that 25 installation, Garritan playback had been perfectly 
fine.  The only way I get any kind of playback is if I choose SmartMusic 
SoftSynth instruments in ScoreManager.

It’s not THAT important, since I only use playback for proofreading purposes, 
but still, now that I’m back to hearing the SmartMusic sounds, it reminds me 
how much better the Garritan sounds are.

I assume I did something (or didn’t do something) in the upgrade process to 
cause this.  Any ideas what I did (or didn’t) do and how to get the Garritan 
sounds to work now?

Thanks…

Neal Gittleman
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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Raymond Horton]

some of you folks need to buy a sense of humor!

Raymond Horton
Composer, Arranger
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra, 1971-2016


On Dec 9, 2016 9:38 AM, "Christopher Smith" 
wrote:

> I don’t use parenthesized courtesy accidentals any more, either, because
> of lack of legibility. Yet, even a non-parenthesized one is kind of a
> confirmation of “yes this note is meant” since it would otherwise be
> superfluous.
>
> I guess all I’m saying is we’re writing for humans, not a rigorous,
> all-seeing machine. I see no problem with notating that way. I learned that
> partly from you!
>
> C
>
>
> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 9:24 AM, SN jef chippewa <
> shirl...@newmusicnotation.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On issues of notation, I always take everything jef says as if it was
> gospel.
> >
> > are you sure that is a good idea? ;-)
> >
>
> Yes. No winky-face.
>
>
> > for new music i never use parentheses for accis.
> > if there is a need, i put the full-size acci; i
> > don't work with key sigs so very very rarely ever
> > encounter a case where it could be useful.  my
> > fonts include them (accis + parentheses) but only
> > because i know this is standard in classical and
> > jazz notation.
> >
> > sure, there is no system that is failproof but i aim towards it...
> >
> >
> >> However, a parenthesized courtesy accidental is
> >> a prime example of a notation saying ³this is
> >> not a typo² and a non-parenthesized one is
> >> similar. I sometimes put the eyeglasses glyph
> >> over a passage that is likely to make musicians
> >> look twice, in order to make them look twice and
> >> improve the chances that they will perform it
> >> correctly (this is jazz notation). I think there
> >> are notations that are more authoritarian and
> >> less authoritarian. jef, you must deal with
> >> degrees of aleatoric-ness all the time, no?
> >>
> >> Christopher
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 7:17 AM, SN jef chippewa
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> this issue of apologetic notation is one i come
> >>> across often, more commonly in north america but
> >>> also in europe.  i can't speak for jazz
> >>> charts/musicians, but if you are working with
> >>> professional musicians, you MUST take it for
> >>> granted they know what the hell a bartók pizz is,
> >>> or a quarter tone.
> >>>
> >>> no musician working professionally today and
> >>> playing new music can justify ignorance of these
> >>> (and a host of other) basic things.
> >>>
> >>> what happens when the composer notates everything
> >>> is that the musician has to read a novel to
> >>> discover the one thing that is unique or special
> >>> to the composer/notation and given some don't
> >>> read the legend anyways (!) you are making it
> >>> even more likely your notation explanations won't
> >>> get read.  at least until after the rehearsals
> >>> without the composer present.
> >>>
> >>> when you overannotate you can also come across as
> >>> condescending to musicians who know what the hell
> >>> a bartók pizz is.  again, if they know it and see
> >>> it in your legend, they can easily assume they
> >>> don't need to read any further because you have
> >>> written a score for newbies or high school bands,
> >>> which you should NEVER do.
> >>>
> >>> if the musicians you are working with are
> >>> inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them
> >>> with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but
> >>> prepare a professional score, with only the
> >>> ESSENTIAL information in it.  a win-win
> >>> situation: whoever needs the supplement can read
> >>> it, whoever doesn't can make a paper plane out of
> >>> it to throw at the composer during the dress
> >>> rehearsal (i know someone this happened to...).
> >>>
> >>> side note: scans of fingerings from published
> >>> texts should NEVER be included in your score,
> >>> that is a copyright infringement.  this is the
> >>> kind of thing that can be sent as a separate
> >>> sheet (along with your glossary, for example).
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> >>> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
> >>>
> >>> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> >>> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> >>> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW]
> http://twitter.com/neueweise
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Finale mailing list
> >>> Finale@shsu.edu
> >>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> >>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Finale mailing list
> >> Finale@shsu.edu 
> >> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale  mailman/listinfo/finale>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> 

Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Christopher Smith]

I don’t use parenthesized courtesy accidentals any more, either, because of 
lack of legibility. Yet, even a non-parenthesized one is kind of a confirmation 
of “yes this note is meant” since it would otherwise be superfluous.

I guess all I’m saying is we’re writing for humans, not a rigorous, all-seeing 
machine. I see no problem with notating that way. I learned that partly from 
you!

C


> On Dec 9, 2016, at 9:24 AM, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On issues of notation, I always take everything jef says as if it was gospel.
> 
> are you sure that is a good idea? ;-)
> 

Yes. No winky-face.


> for new music i never use parentheses for accis. 
> if there is a need, i put the full-size acci; i 
> don't work with key sigs so very very rarely ever 
> encounter a case where it could be useful.  my 
> fonts include them (accis + parentheses) but only 
> because i know this is standard in classical and 
> jazz notation.
> 
> sure, there is no system that is failproof but i aim towards it...
> 
> 
>> However, a parenthesized courtesy accidental is 
>> a prime example of a notation saying ³this is 
>> not a typo² and a non-parenthesized one is 
>> similar. I sometimes put the eyeglasses glyph 
>> over a passage that is likely to make musicians 
>> look twice, in order to make them look twice and 
>> improve the chances that they will perform it 
>> correctly (this is jazz notation). I think there 
>> are notations that are more authoritarian and 
>> less authoritarian. jef, you must deal with 
>> degrees of aleatoric-ness all the time, no?
>> 
>> Christopher
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 7:17 AM, SN jef chippewa 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> this issue of apologetic notation is one i come
>>> across often, more commonly in north america but
>>> also in europe.  i can't speak for jazz
>>> charts/musicians, but if you are working with
>>> professional musicians, you MUST take it for
>>> granted they know what the hell a bartók pizz is,
>>> or a quarter tone.
>>> 
>>> no musician working professionally today and
>>> playing new music can justify ignorance of these
>>> (and a host of other) basic things.
>>> 
>>> what happens when the composer notates everything
>>> is that the musician has to read a novel to
>>> discover the one thing that is unique or special
>>> to the composer/notation and given some don't
>>> read the legend anyways (!) you are making it
>>> even more likely your notation explanations won't
>>> get read.  at least until after the rehearsals
>>> without the composer present.
>>> 
>>> when you overannotate you can also come across as
>>> condescending to musicians who know what the hell
>>> a bartók pizz is.  again, if they know it and see
>>> it in your legend, they can easily assume they
>>> don't need to read any further because you have
>>> written a score for newbies or high school bands,
>>> which you should NEVER do.
>>> 
>>> if the musicians you are working with are
>>> inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them
>>> with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but
>>> prepare a professional score, with only the
>>> ESSENTIAL information in it.  a win-win
>>> situation: whoever needs the supplement can read
>>> it, whoever doesn't can make a paper plane out of
>>> it to throw at the composer during the dress
>>> rehearsal (i know someone this happened to...).
>>> 
>>> side note: scans of fingerings from published
>>> texts should NEVER be included in your score,
>>> that is a copyright infringement.  this is the
>>> kind of thing that can be sent as a separate
>>> sheet (along with your glossary, for example).
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
>>> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
>>> 
>>> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
>>> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
>>> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Finale mailing list
>>> Finale@shsu.edu
>>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>> 
>>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu 
>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale 
>> 
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html 
> 
> 
> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com 
> 
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise   |  [TW] 
> 

Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[SN jef chippewa]

>On issues of notation, I always take everything jef says as if it was gospel.

are you sure that is a good idea? ;-)

for new music i never use parentheses for accis. 
if there is a need, i put the full-size acci; i 
don't work with key sigs so very very rarely ever 
encounter a case where it could be useful.  my 
fonts include them (accis + parentheses) but only 
because i know this is standard in classical and 
jazz notation.

sure, there is no system that is failproof but i aim towards it...


>However, a parenthesized courtesy accidental is 
>a prime example of a notation saying ³this is 
>not a typo² and a non-parenthesized one is 
>similar. I sometimes put the eyeglasses glyph 
>over a passage that is likely to make musicians 
>look twice, in order to make them look twice and 
>improve the chances that they will perform it 
>correctly (this is jazz notation). I think there 
>are notations that are more authoritarian and 
>less authoritarian. jef, you must deal with 
>degrees of aleatoric-ness all the time, no?
>
>Christopher
>
>
>>  On Dec 9, 2016, at 7:17 AM, SN jef chippewa 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>  this issue of apologetic notation is one i come
>>  across often, more commonly in north america but
>>  also in europe.  i can't speak for jazz
>>  charts/musicians, but if you are working with
>>  professional musicians, you MUST take it for
>>  granted they know what the hell a bartók pizz is,
>>  or a quarter tone.
>>
>>  no musician working professionally today and
>>  playing new music can justify ignorance of these
>>  (and a host of other) basic things.
>>
>>  what happens when the composer notates everything
>>  is that the musician has to read a novel to
>>  discover the one thing that is unique or special
>>  to the composer/notation and given some don't
>>  read the legend anyways (!) you are making it
>>  even more likely your notation explanations won't
>>  get read.  at least until after the rehearsals
>>  without the composer present.
>>
>>  when you overannotate you can also come across as
>>  condescending to musicians who know what the hell
>>  a bartók pizz is.  again, if they know it and see
>>  it in your legend, they can easily assume they
>>  don't need to read any further because you have
>>  written a score for newbies or high school bands,
>>  which you should NEVER do.
>>
>>  if the musicians you are working with are
>>  inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them
>>  with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but
>>  prepare a professional score, with only the
>>  ESSENTIAL information in it.  a win-win
>>  situation: whoever needs the supplement can read
>>  it, whoever doesn't can make a paper plane out of
>>  it to throw at the composer during the dress
>>  rehearsal (i know someone this happened to...).
>>
>>  side note: scans of fingerings from published
>>  texts should NEVER be included in your score,
>>  that is a copyright infringement.  this is the
>>  kind of thing that can be sent as a separate
>>  sheet (along with your glossary, for example).
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
>>  http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
>>
>>  shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
>>  new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
>>  [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
>>
>>
>>  ___
>>  Finale mailing list
>>  Finale@shsu.edu
>>  https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>
>>  To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>>  finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
>
>___
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>
>To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu


-- 

neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html

shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
[FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise


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Re: [Finale] Finale 25 System Requirements

[Steve Parker]

Runs fine on my 2010 white MacBook with Sierra.

Steve P.

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 13:38, Jazz-sax  wrote:
> 
> It will run fine. The biggest thing is that you need to have 10.10 as a 
> starting point.
> 
> Sent from my iSomething
> --
> Eric Dannewitz
> Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius
> http://www.ericdannewitz.com
> 
>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:52 AM, Giovanni Andreani  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I've checked the specifications which set the minimum standards required for 
>> Finale 25 on the Mac platform.
>> I'm working on a MacBook Pro (the 15-inch late 2011 model) and, while its 
>> 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7 processor differs from the Intel Core 2 Duo processor 
>> set as the minimum requirement, I would like to know if, according to 
>> anyone's experience, Finale would run just the same.
>> 
>> Giovanni
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Giovanni Andreani
>> 
>> www.giovanniandreani.com
>> www.ga-music.com
>> 
>> www.facebook.com/MrAvenarius
>> www.twitter.com/MrAvenarius
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> 
> ___
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> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[Robert Patterson]

Making statements like "always" seems pretty risky when it comes to music,
including common practice rep. I'm virtually certain common practice rep
has examples of 6/4 in the context of 4/4 as a way of extending a
particular bar. I just can't find one at the moment. :-(

Also, I don't imagine anyone will have much trouble with either. It isn't a
pro-am thing. (Unless you are talking about beginners, which is a whole
'nother kettle of fish and outside my expertise.)

For me, OP's choice has everything to do with context. Without knowing the
full context, it is difficult to offer a suggestion. But in the end that's
all it would be: a suggestion. Either way is perfectly readable.



On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 7:21 AM, David Froom  wrote:

>
> > On 9 Dec 2016, at 7:22 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
> >
> > I think a composer should be able to do whatever they like. But it's not
> a convention that is outliving its usefulness, it is rather a useful
> distinction that is being contracted.
> > I can happily conduct 6 beats in 3/2 to keep the pulse the same and I've
> never met anyone who would suddenly double the tempo of the crotchets just
> because they've seen 3/2.
> > In terms of stress, subtleties matter.
> > S.w.w. 3/2
> > S.w.S. 4/4+2/4
> > S.S.w. 2/4+4/4
> > Stress is, after all, a major reason for time signatures existing..
>
> This is really interesting, as it seems to come down to a jazz vs
> classical thing — and I fully respect each, but acknowledge each has its
> own notational psychology. I think notational psychology is important, even
> crucial to know — things like when/where a cellist would see tenor or
> treble clef, or who prefers ledger lines (flutes and tubas) over 8va/8vb
> (pianists), and so on.
>
> The other break down in 3/2 vs 6/4 (in the purely classical world) might
> be amateur vs professional? Though even here, I’d follow the “rules” if
> there is time for this to be a teaching moment.
>
> It all comes down to who you are writing for and what will take the least
> explaining. If you don’t know the rules of a particular situation, you need
> to ask. I always try to avoid being the inventor, especially if there is a
> perfectly good “standard, expected” solution.
>
> In the professional classical world, top numbers 6, 9, 12 are ALWAYS
> compound meter, whether with lower number 2, 4, 8 or 16. Top numbers 2, 3,
> 4 are ALWAYS simple meter. Shifting back and forth between compound and
> simple usually has a (q=q) or (q=q.), sometimes with a confirming
> parenthetical metronome mark. If one or the other is consistent, you do
> this once and add “sempre.” The occasional 3/4 with a duple subdivision is
> always better shown as dotted quarter followed by eighth-tied-to-quarter
> (instead of two dotted quarters or a two-quarters duplet).
>
> Other top numbers (5 or 7) will show subdivisions with beaming — or will
> have (2+3) or some such thing if there is a conductor and if there is any
> lack of clarity. I hate wasting orchestral rehearsal time with the
> conductor going through the score saying where it is 2+3 and where it is
> 3+2 (been there…).
>
> If I give a part to a pro classical player with a simple meter when it
> should have been a compound meter (or vice versa), I will get a comment,
> will not be taken seriously, and ultimately, won’t get as good a
> performance. That’s how I learned this…
>
> Specifically for the situation that triggered this discussion: It sounds
> as if it is for non-pros. I’d recommend 4/4 and 2/4 or vice versa depending
> on the music. Could also be 3 bars of 2/4. Or if it is to 6/4 but sounding
> as three half-notes, it might be half, quarter-tied-to-quarter, half —
> though that would look fussy.
>
> Thanks all for a great discussion. I learned something, especially if I
> ever find myself writing for jazz players.
>
> David Froom
> ___
> Finale mailing list
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> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale 25 System Requirements

[Jazz-sax]

It will run fine. The biggest thing is that you need to have 10.10 as a 
starting point.

Sent from my iSomething
--
Eric Dannewitz
Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius
http://www.ericdannewitz.com

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:52 AM, Giovanni Andreani  
> wrote:
> 
> I've checked the specifications which set the minimum standards required for 
> Finale 25 on the Mac platform.
> I'm working on a MacBook Pro (the 15-inch late 2011 model) and, while its 2.2 
> GHz Intel Core i7 processor differs from the Intel Core 2 Duo processor set 
> as the minimum requirement, I would like to know if, according to anyone's 
> experience, Finale would run just the same.
> 
> Giovanni
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Giovanni Andreani
> 
> www.giovanniandreani.com
> www.ga-music.com
> 
> www.facebook.com/MrAvenarius
> www.twitter.com/MrAvenarius
> 
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu

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Re: [Finale] 3/2 vs. 6/4

[David Froom]

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 7:22 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
> 
> I think a composer should be able to do whatever they like. But it's not a 
> convention that is outliving its usefulness, it is rather a useful 
> distinction that is being contracted. 
> I can happily conduct 6 beats in 3/2 to keep the pulse the same and I've 
> never met anyone who would suddenly double the tempo of the crotchets just 
> because they've seen 3/2. 
> In terms of stress, subtleties matter. 
> S.w.w. 3/2
> S.w.S. 4/4+2/4
> S.S.w. 2/4+4/4
> Stress is, after all, a major reason for time signatures existing..

This is really interesting, as it seems to come down to a jazz vs classical 
thing — and I fully respect each, but acknowledge each has its own notational 
psychology. I think notational psychology is important, even crucial to know — 
things like when/where a cellist would see tenor or treble clef, or who prefers 
ledger lines (flutes and tubas) over 8va/8vb (pianists), and so on.

The other break down in 3/2 vs 6/4 (in the purely classical world) might be 
amateur vs professional? Though even here, I’d follow the “rules” if there is 
time for this to be a teaching moment. 

It all comes down to who you are writing for and what will take the least 
explaining. If you don’t know the rules of a particular situation, you need to 
ask. I always try to avoid being the inventor, especially if there is a 
perfectly good “standard, expected” solution.

In the professional classical world, top numbers 6, 9, 12 are ALWAYS compound 
meter, whether with lower number 2, 4, 8 or 16. Top numbers 2, 3, 4 are ALWAYS 
simple meter. Shifting back and forth between compound and simple usually has a 
(q=q) or (q=q.), sometimes with a confirming parenthetical metronome mark. If 
one or the other is consistent, you do this once and add “sempre.” The 
occasional 3/4 with a duple subdivision is always better shown as dotted 
quarter followed by eighth-tied-to-quarter (instead of two dotted quarters or a 
two-quarters duplet).

Other top numbers (5 or 7) will show subdivisions with beaming — or will have 
(2+3) or some such thing if there is a conductor and if there is any lack of 
clarity. I hate wasting orchestral rehearsal time with the conductor going 
through the score saying where it is 2+3 and where it is 3+2 (been there…).

If I give a part to a pro classical player with a simple meter when it should 
have been a compound meter (or vice versa), I will get a comment, will not be 
taken seriously, and ultimately, won’t get as good a performance. That’s how I 
learned this…

Specifically for the situation that triggered this discussion: It sounds as if 
it is for non-pros. I’d recommend 4/4 and 2/4 or vice versa depending on the 
music. Could also be 3 bars of 2/4. Or if it is to 6/4 but sounding as three 
half-notes, it might be half, quarter-tied-to-quarter, half — though that would 
look fussy.

Thanks all for a great discussion. I learned something, especially if I ever 
find myself writing for jazz players.

David Froom
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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Christopher Smith]

On issues of notation, I always take everything jef says as if it was gospel. 

However, a parenthesized courtesy accidental is a prime example of a notation 
saying “this is not a typo” and a non-parenthesized one is similar. I sometimes 
put the eyeglasses glyph over a passage that is likely to make musicians look 
twice, in order to make them look twice and improve the chances that they will 
perform it correctly (this is jazz notation). I think there are notations that 
are more authoritarian and less authoritarian. jef, you must deal with degrees 
of aleatoric-ness all the time, no?

Christopher


> On Dec 9, 2016, at 7:17 AM, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> this issue of apologetic notation is one i come 
> across often, more commonly in north america but 
> also in europe.  i can't speak for jazz 
> charts/musicians, but if you are working with 
> professional musicians, you MUST take it for 
> granted they know what the hell a bartók pizz is, 
> or a quarter tone.
> 
> no musician working professionally today and 
> playing new music can justify ignorance of these 
> (and a host of other) basic things.
> 
> what happens when the composer notates everything 
> is that the musician has to read a novel to 
> discover the one thing that is unique or special 
> to the composer/notation and given some don't 
> read the legend anyways (!) you are making it 
> even more likely your notation explanations won't 
> get read.  at least until after the rehearsals 
> without the composer present.
> 
> when you overannotate you can also come across as 
> condescending to musicians who know what the hell 
> a bartók pizz is.  again, if they know it and see 
> it in your legend, they can easily assume they 
> don't need to read any further because you have 
> written a score for newbies or high school bands, 
> which you should NEVER do.
> 
> if the musicians you are working with are 
> inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them 
> with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but 
> prepare a professional score, with only the 
> ESSENTIAL information in it.  a win-win 
> situation: whoever needs the supplement can read 
> it, whoever doesn't can make a paper plane out of 
> it to throw at the composer during the dress 
> rehearsal (i know someone this happened to...).
> 
> side note: scans of fingerings from published 
> texts should NEVER be included in your score, 
> that is a copyright infringement.  this is the 
> kind of thing that can be sent as a separate 
> sheet (along with your glossary, for example).
> 
> -- 
> 
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
> 
> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
> 
> 
> ___
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> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu


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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Keeping this!

On Fri, December 9, 2016 6:08 am, David H. Bailey wrote:
> I can foresee the following dialog:
> Sideman (as the rehearsal grinds to a halt when he stops playing):
> What's this f-ing heart doing over the first note in measure 30?
> Leader: It means you're supposed to love that note.
> S: Huh?  But I hate the whole song, how the hell could I "love" a single
> note in it?
> L: Play it as if it's your favorite note.
> S: Like I'm supposed to like one note out of the whole stupid song?
> L: No, not "like" -- it's telling you to "love" the note.
> S:  Oh, like I can't stand being around my mother for more than 20
> minutes and don't really like her, but I still love her anyway because
> she's my mother?  That won't sound very good.
> L: No.  More like you've just met this gorgeous woman who doesn't mind
> hanging around musicians and she wants to go home with you after the gig.
> S: Oh I get it, play it as if I'm going to have sex with it.
> L: Well not really, more like you've just found your soul mate.
> S: So I'm supposed to marry the f-ing A-flat?
> L: Forget it, just ignore it.  Let's start over?
> Other Sideman:  What does this thing mean over my C in measure 15?
> L: That means it might be a typo.
> O.S.: You mean they actually printed the music knowing there was a note
> that might be a typo but they're not sure?  What should I do?  Play it
> or not?
> L (throwing score on the floor): Let's just scrap this whole piece
> altogether and take out "Mood Indigo."


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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Steve Parker]

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 12:17, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> if the musicians you are working with are 
> inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them 
> with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but 
> prepare a professional score, with only the 
> ESSENTIAL information in it.

I saw the BBC Singers read pages of obscure score directions, then sight read 
the score. Damn perfect as far as I could tell!

Steve P.

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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[SN jef chippewa]

steve, no nothing personal, just a generic rant, a spontaneous 
offshoot of david's comments 8-)

>If this is to me I'm militant about not overnotating.
>But, I also try to head off questions if possible. :-)
>Steve P.

-- 

neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html

shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
[FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise

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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[Steve Parker]

If this is to me I'm militant about not overnotating. 
But, I also try to head off questions if possible. :-)

Steve P. 

> On 9 Dec 2016, at 12:17, SN jef chippewa  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> this issue of apologetic notation is one i come 
> across often, more commonly in north america but 
> also in europe.  i can't speak for jazz 
> charts/musicians, but if you are working with 
> professional musicians, you MUST take it for 
> granted they know what the hell a bartók pizz is, 
> or a quarter tone.
> 
> no musician working professionally today and 
> playing new music can justify ignorance of these 
> (and a host of other) basic things.
> 
> what happens when the composer notates everything 
> is that the musician has to read a novel to 
> discover the one thing that is unique or special 
> to the composer/notation and given some don't 
> read the legend anyways (!) you are making it 
> even more likely your notation explanations won't 
> get read.  at least until after the rehearsals 
> without the composer present.
> 
> when you overannotate you can also come across as 
> condescending to musicians who know what the hell 
> a bartók pizz is.  again, if they know it and see 
> it in your legend, they can easily assume they 
> don't need to read any further because you have 
> written a score for newbies or high school bands, 
> which you should NEVER do.
> 
> if the musicians you are working with are 
> inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them 
> with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but 
> prepare a professional score, with only the 
> ESSENTIAL information in it.  a win-win 
> situation: whoever needs the supplement can read 
> it, whoever doesn't can make a paper plane out of 
> it to throw at the composer during the dress 
> rehearsal (i know someone this happened to...).
> 
> side note: scans of fingerings from published 
> texts should NEVER be included in your score, 
> that is a copyright infringement.  this is the 
> kind of thing that can be sent as a separate 
> sheet (along with your glossary, for example).
> 
> -- 
> 
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
> 
> shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
> 
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu


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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[SN jef chippewa]

awesome.

>I can foresee the following dialog:
>Sideman (as the rehearsal grinds to a halt when he stops playing):
>What's this f-ing heart doing over the first note in measure 30?
>Leader: It means you're supposed to love that note.
>
>
>I'm so glad that MM (or whatever the company's called these days) 
>spent time including this new articulation library. It's ever so 
>much more important than actually fixing problems with the software.

amen.
-- 

neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html

shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
[FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise

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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[SN jef chippewa]

this issue of apologetic notation is one i come 
across often, more commonly in north america but 
also in europe.  i can't speak for jazz 
charts/musicians, but if you are working with 
professional musicians, you MUST take it for 
granted they know what the hell a bartók pizz is, 
or a quarter tone.

no musician working professionally today and 
playing new music can justify ignorance of these 
(and a host of other) basic things.

what happens when the composer notates everything 
is that the musician has to read a novel to 
discover the one thing that is unique or special 
to the composer/notation and given some don't 
read the legend anyways (!) you are making it 
even more likely your notation explanations won't 
get read.  at least until after the rehearsals 
without the composer present.

when you overannotate you can also come across as 
condescending to musicians who know what the hell 
a bartók pizz is.  again, if they know it and see 
it in your legend, they can easily assume they 
don't need to read any further because you have 
written a score for newbies or high school bands, 
which you should NEVER do.

if the musicians you are working with are 
inexperienced (for whatever reason) provide them 
with a glossary of terms as a separate sheet, but 
prepare a professional score, with only the 
ESSENTIAL information in it.  a win-win 
situation: whoever needs the supplement can read 
it, whoever doesn't can make a paper plane out of 
it to throw at the composer during the dress 
rehearsal (i know someone this happened to...).

side note: scans of fingerings from published 
texts should NEVER be included in your score, 
that is a copyright infringement.  this is the 
kind of thing that can be sent as a separate 
sheet (along with your glossary, for example).

-- 

neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html

shirling & neueweise | http://newmusicnotation.com
new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
[FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise


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Re: [Finale] finale development team - time spent...

[David H. Bailey]

On 12/8/2016 8:01 PM, Steve Parker wrote:
> I’ve actually written ‘this is not a typo’ on parts…
>

I can understand using some sort of symbol to indicate that a note is 
definitely what you want and is not a typo.

I can't understand why a person would ever put a symbol to indicate that 
a note "maybe a typo."  Makes no sense to me -- if you put the note in 
the music, it's obviously not a typo, and if you didn't actually mean to 
put a particular note into the music you wouldn't know it and thus 
wouldn't be able to indicate that it might be a typo.

And tying this thread to the recent one regarding differentiating 
between 6/4 and 3/2 time and the potential for one or the other to lead 
to rehearsal disruption and lengthy explanations, how in the world would 
most musicians have any clue what these cutesie but meaningless 
articulations would mean?

I can foresee the following dialog:
Sideman (as the rehearsal grinds to a halt when he stops playing): 
What's this f-ing heart doing over the first note in measure 30?
Leader: It means you're supposed to love that note.
S: Huh?  But I hate the whole song, how the hell could I "love" a single 
note in it?
L: Play it as if it's your favorite note.
S: Like I'm supposed to like one note out of the whole stupid song?
L: No, not "like" -- it's telling you to "love" the note.
S:  Oh, like I can't stand being around my mother for more than 20 
minutes and don't really like her, but I still love her anyway because 
she's my mother?  That won't sound very good.
L: No.  More like you've just met this gorgeous woman who doesn't mind 
hanging around musicians and she wants to go home with you after the gig.
S: Oh I get it, play it as if I'm going to have sex with it.
L: Well not really, more like you've just found your soul mate.
S: So I'm supposed to marry the f-ing A-flat?
L: Forget it, just ignore it.  Let's start over?
Other Sideman:  What does this thing mean over my C in measure 15?
L: That means it might be a typo.
O.S.: You mean they actually printed the music knowing there was a note 
that might be a typo but they're not sure?  What should I do?  Play it 
or not?
L (throwing score on the floor): Let's just scrap this whole piece 
altogether and take out "Mood Indigo."

And people think that discussions about 6/4 or 3/2 would cause problems?

I'm so glad that MM (or whatever the company's called these days) spent 
time including this new articulation library.  It's ever so much more 
important than actually fixing problems with the software.


-- 
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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[Finale] Finale 25 System Requirements

[Giovanni Andreani]

I've checked the specifications which set the minimum standards required for 
Finale 25 on the Mac platform.
I'm working on a MacBook Pro (the 15-inch late 2011 model) and, while its 2.2 
GHz Intel Core i7 processor differs from the Intel Core 2 Duo processor set as 
the minimum requirement, I would like to know if, according to anyone's 
experience, Finale would run just the same.

Giovanni




Giovanni Andreani

www.giovanniandreani.com
www.ga-music.com

www.facebook.com/MrAvenarius
www.twitter.com/MrAvenarius


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