Re: [Finale] chord question
The intent here is to raise the 5th a half step. If you were a piano player
reading a chord chart, would you rather see B-9#5, or G(add2)(#11)/B? They
both spell the exact same notes, but the first example is far easier to
recognize. Or how about this - Dmaj7(sus4)/B.
> On Jul 30, 2016, at 9:58 AM, GERALD BERG wrote:
>
> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
> #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white
> !important; } LOL Close enuff for jazz I guess!
> From an improv vamping POV it proves convenient, and that may well be all
> that is required. But I can't see calling the 6th degree of a minor scale -
> Bb here - a #5 in any theory book.
> Playing the chords in context it sounds like what it is: a minor 6th.
> Alone it sounds like Bb/D b5.
> Thanks for the example! Well found.
> GJB
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
>
> On Saturday, July 30, 2016, 12:20 PM, Lon Price wrote:
>
> Check out the Real Book, Vol. 1 (Hal Leonard Edition), page 102 - Dear Old
> Stockholm. The second chord is D-9#5, so that’s at least one example of the
> chord being used in a publication.
>
>> On Jul 30, 2016, at 8:52 AM, GERALD BERG wrote:
>>
>> Problem there is a #5 needs a major third (D# in this case) to sound
>> augmented otherwise it just sounds like a perfect 4th. GJB
>>
>> From: Lon Price
>> To: finale@shsu.edu
>> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 11:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Finale] chord question
>>
>> B-9#5
>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:39 PM, GERALD BERG wrote:
>>>
>>> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
>>> #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important;
>>> background-color:white !important; } I think to call something a flat 6th
>>> you need a fifth. You have a G/D thing happening.
>>>
>>> GJB
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 29, 2016, 7:12 PM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:
>>>
>>> It sounds like a G Major chord with added 9th and #11 - no 7th
>>>
>>> Harold
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29/07/2016, at 19:56, martin nickless wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi regarding B-9 [b6]
>>>>
>>>> the notes are from bottom up
>>>>
>>>> B A D G Db
>>>>
>>>> thanks
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>>
>> Lon Price
>> lonpr...@att.net
>>
>>
>>
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>
> Lon Price
> lonpr...@att.net
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] chord question
Check out the Real Book, Vol. 1 (Hal Leonard Edition), page 102 - Dear Old
Stockholm. The second chord is D-9#5, so that’s at least one example of the
chord being used in a publication.
> On Jul 30, 2016, at 8:52 AM, GERALD BERG wrote:
>
> Problem there is a #5 needs a major third (D# in this case) to sound
> augmented otherwise it just sounds like a perfect 4th. GJB
>
> From: Lon Price
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 11:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Finale] chord question
>
> B-9#5
>
>> On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:39 PM, GERALD BERG wrote:
>>
>> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
>> #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important;
>> background-color:white !important; } I think to call something a flat 6th
>> you need a fifth. You have a G/D thing happening.
>>
>> GJB
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>>
>>
>> On Friday, July 29, 2016, 7:12 PM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:
>>
>> It sounds like a G Major chord with added 9th and #11 - no 7th
>>
>> Harold
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29/07/2016, at 19:56, martin nickless wrote:
>>
>>> hi regarding B-9 [b6]
>>>
>>> the notes are from bottom up
>>>
>>> B A D G Db
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>>
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>> ___
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>>
>>
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>
> Lon Price
> lonpr...@att.net
>
>
>
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Re: [Finale] chord question
B-9#5
> On Jul 29, 2016, at 4:39 PM, GERALD BERG wrote:
>
> blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px
> #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white
> !important; } I think to call something a flat 6th you need a fifth. You
> have a G/D thing happening.
>
> GJB
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
>
>
> On Friday, July 29, 2016, 7:12 PM, Haroldo Mauro wrote:
>
> It sounds like a G Major chord with added 9th and #11 - no 7th
>
> Harold
>
>
>
> On 29/07/2016, at 19:56, martin nickless wrote:
>
>> hi regarding B-9 [b6]
>>
>> the notes are from bottom up
>>
>> B A D G Db
>>
>> thanks
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>
>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Finale] OT Music theory question
This is sometimes referred to as the "Carol King chord," as she used it quite often in her music. It is most often written as Bb/C, and is used as a sus chord, in this case C7sus4 in the key of F. > On Mar 24, 2016, at 12:11 PM, timothy price wrote: > > This seems the most simple and correct, imo. > The Bb major chord is only altered by the tonic being raised a C. > I think that this resulting chord, as a passing tone, > could unimaginatively resolve to an F maj. second inversion. > > tim > > > On Mar 24, 2016, at 2:56 PM, Steven Larsen wrote: > >> In a word, no. In a tonal context it could be analyzed in a couple of >> different ways, but I'd have to see what else was happening around it. As a >> chord symbol it would be: >> BbMaj/C >> >> Steve Larsen >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Marcello Noia [mailto:marcellon...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 2:41 AM >> To: finale@shsu.edu >> Subject: [Finale] OT Music theory question >> >> Hi, due to my huge lackness in harmonical theory, I ask this: >> is there a technical term to define a chord formed by (starting from low >> note) perfect fourth-perfect fourth-major third (for example C-F-Bb-D). >> I see it often used in vocal arrangements (Jonathan Rathbone for Swingle >> Singers for example), sometimes also in progression for ascending or >> descending whole tones or half-tones. It creates a beautiful "suspended" and >> "misterioso" atmosphere. >> Thanks >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: >> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ** Lon Price lonpr...@att.net http://www.txstnr.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Java 6
I think I discovered the problem. It’s when I boot up Finale while I have Digital Performer open. At first I don’t see any of the menus, but if I click on Finale in the Dock the menus show up. I thought Java was the culprit, but I think I was wrong. I still don’t understand why Java 6 is necessary to run Finale in Yosemite. So I agree, MM seems to be behind the times on this issue. LP > On Jul 16, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Christopher Smith > wrote: > > You shouldn't have to install it more than once. Are you doing complete > system re-installs or updates? Once it is installed, it is supposed to > co-exist peacefully with the latest Java and you shouldn't have to touch it > again. > > Or maybe when you update the NEW Java, it disables Java 6? That would > surprise me too, but MakeMusic is a little behind the times (okay, a lot!) > > Christopher > > > On Thu Jul 16, at ThursdayJul 16 1:44 PM, Lon Price wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me why Finale 2014 still requires Java 6? I’m in Yosemite >> and I have to re-install Java 6 periodically in order to get all of the >> menus to show up in Finale. This is extremely annoying. What gives? >> >> Lon >> >> ** >> Lon Price >> lonpr...@att.net >> http://www.txstnr.com/ >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: >> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ** Lon Price lonpr...@att.net http://www.txstnr.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Java 6
Can anyone tell me why Finale 2014 still requires Java 6? I’m in Yosemite and I have to re-install Java 6 periodically in order to get all of the menus to show up in Finale. This is extremely annoying. What gives? Lon ** Lon Price lonpr...@att.net http://www.txstnr.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Backward tie in Coda
How do I enter a backward tie to a note in the first bar of the coda? Shift-t doesn’t work. ** Lon Price lonpr...@att.net http://www.txstnr.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] OT: Key sig for Lydian mode
I don't like the use of modal key signatures. I feel that most of us are conditioned to think in a particular key, in other words, A Major being three sharps. So if you're hearing the key as A Major, but the key signature is four sharps, you might miss the D#. I'd rather have it written in, even if every D in the piece is D#. On Dec 9, 2013, at 2:50 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: > So I am curious what this list thinks. You are writing a piece in A lydian > mode. Do you use four sharps in the key sig or do you use three sharps and > show the raised fourth as a chromatic alteration throughout the piece? > > I recently encountered this situation in some contemporary church music. I > am a horn player, so key sigs are not my strong suit, but showing 4 sharps > for a piece in A lydian drove me crazy (and this piece was lydian > throughout, so the problem manifested over and over in other keys as well.) > There was one solo where I played g-natural until the after the final > run-through before I noticed the wrong note and corrected it for the > performance. (The conductor was gonna let it go!) > > Maybe four sharps makes sense in some contexts (jazz? early music?) but it > felt really wrong in contemporary church music, esp. consider the minimal > rehearsal time such music gets. > > Yikes I just looked at Elaine Gould, and she allows any arbitrary key > signature. I hope I never have to face that, and in any case would end up > penciling every one of them in. > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ** Lon Price lonpr...@att.net http://www.txstnr.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 9X12 PDFs?
I don't know what computer you're using, but on a Mac you can create a custom page size when you select the "manage custom sizes" option under "Paper Size." In Preview, go to "Print" - "Paper Size" - "Manage Custom Sizes." Under that heading you have a window listing existing custom sizes, which might be blank if you don't have any. At the bottom of that window is "+" "-" and "Duplicate." Select the "+" and enter all of the settings - Width, Height and Non-Printable Area. Hit "OK" and you're done. Lon On Sep 27, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Katherine Hoover wrote: > Dear finalelist - > > I'm trying to send 9x12 pdf's to the printing company. The pdf won't accept > my size 9 x 12... and the "custom" tag does nothing. I believe I've sent 9 x > 12 before, but I'll need to figure out how. There must be a way... the pdf > is simply converting the pages to legal, so notes are missing. Any > suggestions would be greatly appreciated! > > Katherine > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] What will be the state of notation products by 2016?
ment would never be forced to use the advanced capabilities, just as nobody is forced to use a spell checker. I'd like to see a program that does audio recording, MIDI sequencing and notation equally well. But none of the current DAWs out there come close when it comes to notation, and it doesn't seem likely that any of them ever will. When I need really good mockups of my work, I do those in DP, and then I have to start all over again from scratch in Finale, in order to get my music ready for printing. I used to be a beta tester for DP, and I tried to influence them to add better notation features. They added a few things, like the ability to choose a clef for each separate part (only treble, alto, bass and grand staff, though), and dynamics (although they don't play back - you have to do that through other means), and lyrics. A few other things were added - double bars and repeats, for example. But it's all very cumbersome - Finale does an infinitely better job - after all, it's a notation program. _________ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Lon Price lonpr...@txstnr.com http://www.txstnr.com/ Lon Price, Los Angeles <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Copying staff styles
No matter what I do, I can't get staff styles to copy into parts. I can copy them in the score, and they copy correctly, but they don't show up in the parts. I make sure that I have selected "Use Selected Staff Style in Score and Parts," but the copied staff styles still don't show up in parts. Solution? ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Copying staff styles
For this project I'm only using slashes and rhythmic notation, both of which are "copyable" in their definition, but John Blane had the solution. Quoting "Fiskum, Steve" : > Have you check "copy" in the staff style definition? > > Steve > > On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:39 PM, "Lon Price" wrote: > >> No matter what I do, I can't get staff styles to copy into parts. I >> can copy them in the score, and they copy correctly, but they don't >> show up in the parts. I make sure that I have selected "Use Selected >> Staff Style in Score and Parts," but the copied staff styles still >> don't show up in parts. Solution? >> >> >> >> Lon Price, Los Angeles >> >> <http://www.txstnr.com> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > Lon Price, Los Angeles <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Copying staff styles
Wow! That worked! Thanks for the quick reply. I thought I'd tried that before, but I guess not. Thanks again. Quoting John Blane : > It sounds like a procedural problem. You can't have "Use Selected > Staff Style in Score and Parts" *selected* exactly. > > Try this; in the score view, highlight each staff that has staff > styles present (or all staves, shouldn't matter). Now in the Staff > Tool Menu or control-click on a highlighted staff and now choose, > "Use Selected Staff Style in Score and Parts" and they should then > appear properly in the parts. > > John Blane > Blane Music Preparation > 1649 Huntington Ln. > Highland Park, IL 60035 > 847 579-9900 > 847 579-9903 fax > www.BlaneMusic.com > j...@blanemusic.com > > > > On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:40 PM, Lon Price wrote: > >> No matter what I do, I can't get staff styles to copy into parts. I >> can copy them in the score, and they copy correctly, but they don't >> show up in the parts. I make sure that I have selected "Use Selected >> Staff Style in Score and Parts," but the copied staff styles still >> don't show up in parts. Solution? >> >> >> >> Lon Price, Los Angeles >> >> <http://www.txstnr.com> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > Lon Price, Los Angeles <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] How to move rehearsal letter on top staff in score only? (Fin2012)
I've run into similar problems trying to get parts and score to look right. I found that the simplest solution is to have two separate files - one as "parts" and one as "score." Problem solved. Quoting Robert Patterson : > Let's hope they don't "fix" it in a future release! > > > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Darcy James Argue > wrote: > >> Hi Robert, >> >> That method actually clears the positioning on the top staff as well! >> Hence my frustration. >> >> However, while messing around with it just now, however, I discovered that >> if I invoke the Expression Assignment dialog box on the rehearsal letter >> attached to the Violin I staff, I can enter an offset of zero in both boxes >> and it will return to the default position without touching the top staff. >> So that would seem to be the best method to use going forward. >> >> Cheers, >> >> - DJA >> - >> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org >> >> On Sep 10, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Robert Patterson >> wrote: >> >> > I have wrestled with this, too. I can't remember exactly, but I would >> start >> > with: >> > >> > 1 Everything at default. >> > 2 Unlink in score >> > 3 Move top staff where you want it >> > 4 Select handle violin staff and hit "clear". This should restore it to >> > default position. >> > >> > But every time you move the top mark you will have to go back and clear >> it >> > in the violin staff. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Darcy James Argue < >> djar...@earthlink.net>wrote: >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Let's say you have boxed rehearsal letters set up to show up above the >> top >> >> score staff and the Violin I staff in an orchestral score. And let's say >> >> you want to move ONLY the rehearsal letter above the top score staff, >> ONLY >> >> in the score. >> >> >> >> I have yet to find an effective method for doing this. Has anyone sorted >> >> out a good workflow? >> >> >> >> If you move the rehearsal letter in the score, it moves it everywhere >> >> (including the violin staff in the score, and all parts). This is as >> >> expected. >> >> >> >> However, if you unlink the rehearsal letter in the score (or hold the >> >> override key and drag) and move the top rehearsal letter in the score, >> the >> >> rehearsal letter showing on the violin staff also moves. You can move >> the >> >> rehearsal letter showing on the violin staff independently, but whenever >> >> you adjust the rehearsal letter attached to the top score staff, the >> >> rehearsal letters showing on other staves move with it. >> >> >> >> It is possible to go to the top part (let's say it's the Flute 1 part), >> >> hold down the override key, and drag the top rehearsal letter. That >> moves >> >> the rehearsal letter in the top score staff as well without affecting >> the >> >> rehearsal letter attached to the Violin I staff. But possibly you don't >> >> *want* to move it in the part, meaning you'd have to unlink it in the >> part >> >> after dragging with the override key and remove manual adjustments. But >> >> that is a lot of work just to make a simple adjustment in the score, and >> >> also involves a certain amount of guesswork since you are trying to >> adjust >> >> the positioning of a score element by moving it in the part! >> >> >> >> Has anyone figured out a better way to do this? >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> - DJA >> >> - >> >> WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Finale mailing list >> >> Finale@shsu.edu >> >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> >> >> >> > ___ >> > Finale mailing list >> > Finale@shsu.edu >> > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > >> >> >> >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> >> > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > Lon Price, Los Angeles <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Fin 2008 issues
I've been work in Fin Mac 2008 for a few days and I've run into some problems. 1. When using the full version of GPO I can't get pizz. and arco to trigger correctly in a double bass part after entering those expressions in my score. I've tried putting notes F-2 and C-2 in layer 4 and that doesn't seem to work consistently either. I've also tried doing the "dump" setting in the playback options as described in the manual for the pizz. and arco expressions, and that doesn't work either. 2. Since I couldn't get the previously mentioned triggering to work in full GPO, I reverted to Fin GPO, in which case I can't seem to get percussion to play back loud enough, especially the snare drum in the Orchestral Percussion sample. I can't hear it at all unless I solo it. I've tried adjusting the volume levels everywhere I could find them--in Studio View and in the Kontakt Player, but to no avail. I've also tried marking the snare FF, which I wouldn't really want in my score. I just can't get it loud enough to hear. 3. After copying and pasting music I get some strange volume levels-- certain instruments suddenly loud, the 2nd violins drowning out the first, etc. I don't know if the copying and pasting is creating the problem, or if volume level is just erratic in general. 4. I tried Score Merger today on a collection of alto sax duets that I wrote last year. Everything went fine, except that I want the part names to show up on the first line of each duet, and I can't find any other way of doing that short of entering the names in new text boxes. It seems that this would be standard practice, so I should have the option to do this. I mean, the part names are already there, they're just hidden. 5. I'm also getting crashing during playback, when using AU for playback. I just got a crash while trying to record beats from an imported audio file. This is on a dual 2 GB G5 with 4.5 GB RAM. I don't think I'm overloading my computer--this last crash occurred while playing two instruments in player Kontakt 2 along with an audio file about 3 and a half minutes in length. I'm not exactly new to Finale--I've been using it since version 2000, so I don't think my problems are due to "pilot error." But I don't know if these are just bugs, or if I can do something to fix these problems. Any input from the list would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2008 must be on the way
The "Import Audio" feature will be a big help to me. As stated in the preview: "import a stereo mix of your rock band to add a horn arrangement." This is exactly the type of thing that I do all the time. In the past I've had to do my horn arrangement in Digital Performer when the client sends me an MP3 of the basic track to work with. Then I'd have to start over from scratch in Finale in order to create the parts for printing. I just hope that Finale does a better job than DP of determining the tempo of the audio file. I found that in DP I usually had to manually tap in the tempo from start to finish. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] New Question
On Jun 21, 2007, at 8:56 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: I think that Beethoven and Mozart would have used Finale if it were available back in their day. This is definitely a generational issue. When I started using Finale in 1991 there was still a whole generation of composers out there who never used a computer for anything, and saw no point in adopting the new technology. Most of them are dead now. My generation, the boomers, mostly use Finale as an engraving tool--that is, we compose on paper (using piano to test chords, counterpoint etc.), then when everything is done, use Finale to make the fair copy and extract the parts. I realize that the vast majority of younger composers work directly in Finale, but I confess I cannot even conceive how that could be done smoothly, since I, at least, would find myself constantly distracted by engraving issues (supressing cautionary this'n'that between movements, frinstance) that have no bearing on the act of composition itself. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ I agree that this is a generational issue, although I'm one of the older crowd (age 61) who has almost completely replaced the pencil and paper with Finale. I find that I can use Finale just like pencil and paper most of the time. I have templates set up ahead of time for various ensembles, so I don't get bogged down at the very start of a piece by those issues. I've worked in Finale long enough now that other notational issues don't really bog me down, although I wouldn't even attempt to do rhythm section parts for playback in Finale. Instead I use MOTU's Digital Performer (DP), my sequencer of choice, for those parts. I find that for some projects I can work completely in Finale, start to finish, and in others I work in DP for playback and then go to Finale for the score and parts. When I do start a project in DP, because of Finale's poor rendering of imported MIDI files, I have to start over from scratch and redo the entire piece in Finale. (I guess I'm one of those who should "open a case" with MM for better MIDI importation.) In an attempt to get better notation features in DP, I've complained about this to MOTU, explaining that I feel that I have to do my work twice. They tell me that I should think of it as doing half my work in DP and half in Finale, but if I'm entering exactly the same music twice in two different programs, that can only mean that I'm doing my work twice. But I've accepted the fact that this is the way I have to work, and have done so for a number of years. I think the biggest problem with working the way I do is the tendency to write only what can be rendered satisfactorily in Finale or Digital Performer. In other words, I sometimes feel that my writing tends to be too "safe." When I listen to other composers that I admire, such as Maria Newman, or my former composition teacher, Erica Muhl, (both are quite a bit younger than me, BTW) their writing is much more adventurous, because they're writing for the real instruments, rather than a MIDI imitation of those instruments. I'm afraid that young aspiring composers are often falling into this trap without any realization that they're doing it. Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale teacher needed in Portland, OR
A music store in Portland, Oregon is looking for someone local to teach a class in Finale. Anyone who is interested please contact Eric Warlaumont at Portland Music Company, 532 SE MLK Blvd., Portland, OR. The phone number is (503) 226- 3719 or (800) 452-2991. Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Double time swing playback
On Feb 6, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: On 6-Feb-07, at 2:35 PM, Lon Price wrote: I'm working on a slow blues that has a double time swing figure, and I can't seem to get Finale to interpret it correctly on playback. Does anyone know if this is possible in Finale? Well, that depends on your definition of "possible" and "correctly." 8-) Assuming you need to play it back for some client who does not want to know about any problems you are having with the technology, or for demo purposes for someone lacking imagination, and you don't care if you create a separate playback file, you could try this: In a copy of the file, change the rhythmic values of the double- time figures only to twice their length with the Mass Edit tool. Adjust lengths of measures with the Time Sig tool. Put in tempo expression to double the tempo at the exact place you need the double time feel to start, and cancel them with original tempo expressions at the exact places they end. Use that as a playback file. Swear at the client expressively and loudly, in an isolated room alone to get it all out of your system before you see him next. Christopher That's pretty funny! No, it's really just for my own amusement that I wanted to do this. In Digital Performer I can set playback to swing 16ths if I want, and I could dump the Finale MIDI file into that program if I ever really needed to do this for a client. But thanks for the suggestions. Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Double time swing playback
I'm working on a slow blues that has a double time swing figure, and I can't seem to get Finale to interpret it correctly on playback. Does anyone know if this is possible in Finale? ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing music in linked part?
I can confirm that I've encountered this same problem. I was working on a lead sheet, got the C part done and created a part before copying and pasting it into the Bb and Eb staves. After pasting into those staves, staff styles were out of whack, and all of the music was crammed into the first line of the parts with pasted material. I had to manually move the music down the page, line by line, until I got the layout I wanted. Also, I noticed that some chord symbols pasted with alterations omitted. It seems to me that it's best to wait until "everything" is entered into the score before generating the parts. I personally don't really need to see any parts until then anyway. BTW, this was working in a template that I created in FinMac 2000, if that makes any difference. I don't really want to abandon this template--I've done a lot of tweaking to get everything the way I want it. It would be quite a chore to recreate it from scratch.On Sep 19, 2006, at 10:06 AM, Chuck Israels wrote:I acknowledge that my experience may not be universal. I certainly hope no one else encounters it, but I assure you, I have paid attention to what's going on with this situation. If my experience helps someone else avoid the frustration that this caused me, that will give me some satisfaction. ********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: OT
I use a set of Edirol powered speakers that come in a canvas case. They come in a variety of sizes and prices, so you have a choice. I got fairly small ones, since I use them in a teaching studio. For a classroom I might want bigger ones. I also carry a dock for my iPod that allows me to keep it plugged in while I'm using it.********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com>On Aug 27, 2006, at 2:05 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:Hey, Chuck thanks. In this case (my wife's class room), no decent sound system does exist ... so an all in one unit may be the best bet.Thanks again,DeanOn Aug 27, 2006, at 1:58 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: There are many of them, and none of them, to my knowledge, will result in a sound quality as good as you might get from simply buying a mini plug to RCA plug adapter cord at Radio Shack and plugging it in to a decent Stereo system.Single unit ones abound - made by Apple, Bose, Altec Lansing and a number of others. If you have decent music playback already, I'd go with a wire.ChuckOn Aug 27, 2006, at 1:49 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: My mind is tired of spinning around the linked parts issues, so another question. There is a gizmo, I think, into which one can place an iPod and have it play for all to hear (like a boom box, essentially). If it exists, what is said gizmo called, about what does it cost, and what sort of playback quality might one expect from it?Dean___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels230 North Garden TerraceBellingham, WA 98225-5836phone (360) 671-3402fax (360) 676-6055www.chuckisraels.com___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 review
I installed FinMac 2007 Monday night, and I must say that this upgrade is the most important to me since '04, which brought Finale into Mac OSX. The linked parts feature is going to save me a tremendous amount of time, as well as disk space. I was able to open an existing file, set up linked parts, make adjustments as needed, and print out the parts. I corrected a misplaced "to coda" sign, which was fixed on score and all parts, and was able to move text expressions around in individual parts without affecting the score. I've wanted to be able to do this for years!It was sort of creepy, though, when I first opened the file and got the ivory colored virtual "paper," exactly the look of Sibelius 4 (the much-touted textured paper feature). I quickly went to Program Options and changed it to white, and now all is well.You guys can gripe and argue about this and that till the cows come home, but for me, this upgrade is the bomb, as my kids used to say. Now "sweet" seems to be in vogue, so to me this upgrade is "sweet." ;-) ****Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] semi-OT: DP vs. Logic question
It seems to me that you should go with the same program your client uses--DP. I'm also a former Mosaic user, but I don't think that you have to worry about DP being orphaned as Mosaic was. MOTU just made the decision to put their R and D energies into creating a really good DAW, along with their excellent audio and MIDI interfaces and the recent sample libraries. I work exactly the same way your client works--I print out the music from Quickscribe and then use that to create the Finale file. It's been my experience that no matter how much time I spend trying to quantize the DP file, I cannot get anything near acceptable results opening the resulting file in FInale. It's faster for me to just start from scratch, using the Quickscribe printout as my reference.On Aug 15, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Brian Williams wrote:Would it be better in the long term for me to go with Logic rather than DP? I know that there are legions of dedicated DP users, but seeing what happened to Mosaic, I would rather go with the sure bet. Would Logic be able to import DP files and allow me to do everything DP does, including QuickScribe notation? ********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fwd: Announcement: Sibelius becomes a part of Digidesign
For years I begged MOTU to first fix all of the bugs in their notation program, Mosaic (which had "dynamic part linking," BTW), and then roll it into Digital Performer, creating an all-in-one notation-sequencer-audio recording program. Why did I want this? Because I had to do all of my work involving MIDI twice, if I started a project in DP, that is. That remains the case to this day, only I gave up on Mosaic about 6 years ago, and bought Finale. If I start a project in DP, I have to start from scratch in Finale to create my printed material. I'm currently working on a book and play-along CD of alto sax duets with rhythm section accompaniment. I need only to print out the sax parts. I do the sax parts in DP as MIDI (replacing them later with real saxes), print the parts from Quickscribe (DP's notation editor) and work from that to enter the music into Finale. This means I'm doing the work twice. Why do I have to enter all those notes twice? Because when I use Finale to open a SMF created in DP, the result is such a mess that it's just easier, and much faster, to start over from scratch. This is really a nuisance--why should I have to do this? I've asked the guys at MOTU about it, and all I get is, "DP handles MIDI differently than a notation program. Rather than feeling that you're doing your work twice, you should think of it as doing half your work in DP and half in Finale." But when I'm entering exactly the same notes in two different programs, that's doing my work twice, no matter how anyone looks at it.If I start a project in FInale and open the SMF in DP, that works, so I go that way when I can. But for a project like this one, I need to create the rhythm track first, which would be next to impossible in Finale, because it is not a sequencer. I use all manner of sequencing "tricks" to create my rhythm track. So, yeah, I'd like to see some company create an all-in-one program. I own Sibelius, although I don't use it, unless a client wants it, of course. (So far that hasn't happened.) As far as Digidesign making an all-in-one program, they have to also address MIDI sequencing, which I hear is pretty clunky in Protools. But I'm curious to see where this all goes.Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com>On Aug 2, 2006, at 10:06 AM, dhbailey wrote:Here's hoping that Sibelius is allowed to focus on notation -- something I'm not optimistic about. I see it more as a front-end/back-end thing. Eventually things will be rolled into one application, and simply marketed with two different front-ends for different markets but in reality the same piece of software. One will be a notation program with all the bells and whistles of a DAW, and the other will be a full-fledged DAW with one of the best notation capabilities available today. One will be marketed towards educators and "serious" (I hate that term, maybe I should use "non-pop") composers who will increasingly incorporate audio with their notation (like the 20th century works for acoustic instruments and electronic tape) and the other will be marketed to the pop/rock/movie world which works with audio first and finally gets around to notation for those acoustic instruments they wish to include. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIdi Export Files
Yeah, I forgot that you could do that too.On Jul 26, 2006, at 11:24 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:Lon Price / 2006/07/26 / 02:01 PM wrote: You don't import MIDI files into DP, you just open them from within the program. I do import SMF off Finale to DP all the time by, as I posted before,dropping the file onto Chunk window :-)-- - HiroHiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA<http://a-no-ne.com> <http://anonemusic.com>___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIdi Export Files
Since he's using Digital Performer, he's on a Mac. What he needs to do is boot up DP first, and then open the MIDI file from the "open" dialog within DP, rather than double-clicking the file itself. You don't import MIDI files into DP, you just open them from within the program.********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com>On Jul 26, 2006, at 4:33 AM, Cecil Rigby wrote:Neal, the files aren't "coming through as QuickTime files." It's that hiscomputer is set to open all files of .mid extension with QuickTime. Tell himto change the extension or, if he's on Windows, simply right-click the fileand use the Open command line to select which program will open the files.-Cecil Rigby[EMAIL PROTECTED]- Original Message - From: "Neal Gittleman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <finale@shsu.edu>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:35 PMSubject: [Finale] MIdi Export Files Greetings...I'm trying to help a friend with a project...I've saved a two Finale files (FinMac2k6c) as a Standard Midi File(with each line as a separate track) and sent him the files, whichhave .mid extensions.His reply:Thanks for sending the files, however, if you saved them as StandardMidiFiles (.smf) they are coming through as Quicktime files which I can playback on the computer but can't import into Digital Performer.Any ideas what I say back to him?Thanks...ng___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Redundant accidentals
On Jul 5, 2006, at 12:34 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:Actually, come to think of it, I find the whole idea of a "courtesy accidental" more than a little weird. When I write an accidental, parenthesized or not, there is no courtesy involved! It's just me, as a composer, doing my damnedest to get the players to play what I want them to play instead of something else. Maybe they'll have the courtesy to do that, but experience has taught me not to hold my breath. I hear you! Likewise for me. However, some of my better students (those actually capable of thinking and playing in a particular key) do sometimes get confused by "courtesy" accidentals, since I've drilled into their heads that the barline cancels out any "real" accidental. But when I'm writing for a recording session I almost always put in courtesy accidentals, but I never use a parenthesis. I find parenthesized accidentals too hard to read. Maybe I need better glasses. ;-) ****Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Redundant accidentals
I recently played through a set of clarinet etudes with a student, and ran across an oddity. In the key of Bb, a couple E#s and B#s occurred. The manuscript had a natural sign and then a sharp next to the note in each instance, which seemed redundant to me, and confusing to my student. I guess I've seen this before, but is it really necessary to first cancel out the flat before entering the sharp? ********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tuplet notation
On Jun 28, 2006, at 11:15 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote:As to the question of what is correct *now*, things are not quite as simple as you suggest. In particular, the proper number of beams for a septuplet has been a vexed question for a very long time. Many composers follow the rule you cite, that a tuplet should always be beamed according to the next slower "plain" note value (note that the duplet is an exception to this). Other composers, including me, follow a different rule: that the beaming of a tuplet should follow the *closest* plain note value, with the triplet being the dividing point (anything faster than a triplet gets more beams). When I prepare music for printing I try to keep the player in mind, because I was a player before I was a copyist/engraver, composer or arranger. And I am still active as a player, so I can still think that way. What's gonna make it easier to play? It seems to me that 7 16ths are a lot of notes to fit into one beat (one less than twice as many), whereas 7 32nds seem more natural (one less than the normal number). I would never go so far as to put 8 or 9 16ths beamed together--they'd have to be 32nds. But I don't get to decide in this case, since I'm working for someone else. I discussed this with him, and he opted to keep it like the original. This is a case where an arpeggio is being extended by one interval at a time (6 notes, then 7, 8 and 9), and it's pretty clear to the eye, just looking at it. But as a player, when it gets to 7 and above, I want to see 32nds. ********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] playback tempo problem
In Fin 2K6 go to Studio View. In Tempo Tap, hit Edit. You'll see a line showing where the tempo is. Use Command-A to select all. In the main menu go to Midi Tool. Select "Set To:" and type in the tempo you want. It will be set from beginning to end. If you only need to change the affected areas, go to those measures and highlight the offending tempos, then change them to the tempo you want as above. On May 13, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: I am working on a piece in which I have imported some entries from another arrangement, and there is a strange playback anomaly. Even though I've defined a measure expression to control the playback tempo, (and set it similarly in the playback control window, just to be doubly sure), the piece only plays back in the (faster) tempo of the version from which entries have been imported. I have deleted all expressions from the opening measure of the new piece to no avail. Nothing changes this. Ideas? Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Classical Music Archives
After reading about the Classical Music Archives site, I subscribed and downloaded some MIDI files. I'm currently studying Benjamin's "The Craft of Modal Counterpoint," so I downloaded works by Palestrina--"Missa Papae Marcelli" for 6 voices and "Mass for 3 Voices" by William Byrd. I have recordings of these works, and when comparing the MIDI versions to the recordings, I found numerous discrepancies, like completely different cadences (V-i in minor instead of major V-I), accidentals in the MIDI file that don't occur in the recording, or vise-versa. I expect that the recordings are accurate-- the Palestrina is performed by the Oxford Camerata, and the Byrd is performed by the Tallis Scholars. Being unfamiliar with music of this period, my question is: Are there different editions of pieces from this period that are inconsistent, or are these MIDI files just inaccurate? Does the archive have someone checking submitted files for accuracy, or do they only care about whether or not copyrights are being violated? It would seem to me that accuracy is very important for a website like this one. Otherwise, what's the point? Best to all, Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] music literacy
On Mar 31, 2006, at 1:19 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:It turns out that 12-year-olds (at least this 12-year-old) don't listen to Nora Jones. I'm sorry Lon, I don't want to pick on you, but I'm amused that this comes as a surprise to you, considering how aggressively Norah Jones is marketed to the middle-aged, Starbucks-frequenting, NPR-listening demographic. What you said is the precise equivalent of someone 50 years ago expressing surprise that the kids aren't listening to Bing Crosby.I think that statement is a little extreme. 50 years ago--1956--there was a TV show called "Your Hit Parade," with a cast of regulars who sang each of the top 10 songs of the week. At that time, the top 10 might consist of songs performed by Elvis, Pat Boone, Patti Page, Doris Day, Ray Anthony, Percy Faith, etc. Rock music had not yet taken over top-40 radio. I definitely remember Bing Crosby making the hit parade that year, with a little tune called "White Christmas." But I get your point. It just shows how out of touch I am with that age group's musical tastes. I was a little more in touch when my youngest daughter was still living with me, but she left the nest 5 years ago. But now I am trying to find out what my students listen to. Like I said, I've offered to do a play-along book and CD of songs that my students pick out, provided that I like them too. I've ruled out rap, because, well, how would one perform a rap song on clarinet or sax? We'll see what comes of that project. Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] music literacy
On Mar 31, 2006, at 5:11 AM, John Bell wrote:Was your father impressed with your taste in popular music in the 60s? John It's funny, I was discussing this with my dad last week. I've been working on a book and play-along CD of Beatles songs for my private students. (Don't worry--I've applied for permission to publish at Hal Leonard, who handles copyrights for all Lennon/McCartney songs.) I was telling my dad that I wasn't a Beatles fan until "Rubber Soul," and we were discussing the tremendous influence that they had on popular music. When the Beatles first came out my parents didn't like their music, but now they do, and I'm sure that they find the Beatles far more accessible than most of the pop music today. I doubt that my parents will ever feel that way about the Rolling Stones, though, and I agree. I was pretty disgusted with the Stones' performance at the last Super Bowl. They've always sounded to me like a bad garage band. I do like some of the Stones' older records--just not their live performances. But that's just my personal taste.One of my 12-year-old students wants me to do a play-along project of songs that he and his contemporaries listen to. I told him that if he could find ten current songs that I like, I'd do it (I refuse to work on music that I don't like personally). It remains to be seen whether or not he can come up with the songs--I doubt that he can. For instance, I asked him if he'd heard of Nora Jones (The daughter of Ravi Shankar, who taught George Harrison the sitar, which he played on "Norwegian Wood," one of the songs in my book). Well, my student never heard of her. It turns out that 12-year-olds (at least this 12-year-old) don't listen to Nora Jones. Not that I particularly like her music, but at least I don't find it offensive. Again, personal taste. My former composition instructor at USC likes the Black Crows, which I can't stand. But I'm 20 years older than her, so I guess that explains it.All of this said, I do believe that in general the popular music of the 60s was far superior musically than today's music, but is that a true statement, or just my own personal taste? I dunno. Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Oboe Joke
A tenor sax player dies and finds himself in Hell. He meets Satan, who tells him to report to the equipment room to pick out a horn. The tenor player spends a few hundred years (he's got eternity, right?) picking out the perfect Selmer Mark VI tenor, the perfect mouthpiece and reed. Finally, he's ready for the first rehearsal. It's a big band with the biggest legends in jazz in attendance--Miles is in the trumpet section, Bird is on alto, etc. The charts are swingin', in easy keys, and the band is cookin'! The tenor player leans over to the guy sitting next to him and says, "I thought this was Hell. Sure seems like Heaven to me so far." The guy says, "No, it's Hell, alright. You don't get no solos!" Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Bug report - Slurs between layers between systems - 2006PC
On Oct 28, 2005, at 12:41 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:And I'm not convinced that I can think of a context where you should be using different layers for two notes that are slurred. How about in a piano part, where in one measure a note needs to be in layer 2, but there's no need to do layers in the next measure--all notes are layer 1. This happens to me all the time when writing piano music, and so far this bug hasn't bitten me, but I'll on the lookout for it in the future.Lon ********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] changing clefs in bass clarinet
As a woodwind player, the only practical reason that I can see for writing the bass clef for bass clar. is the avoidance of a lot of ledger lines. As a clarinet player, I'm used to seeing 3 ledger lines below the staff, and 4 above. With the modern bass clar.'s ability to play as low as written C 4 ledger lines and a space below the treble staff, I can understand why one might want to write passages this low in bass clef. I would think that an even more practical approach would be to write the passage an octave higher and mark it 8ba., but still in treble clef. Although I'm capable of doing it, I don't like to read anything in bass clef, because I have to consciously tell my fingers where to go. When I read treble clef parts, my fingers go to the right keys automatically. I guess that comes from playing sax, clar. and flute for 50 years, all of which are written in treble clef. I can certainly see the practicality of training oneself to read bass clef, for the reasons stated by others, though. As a copyist-engraver, I might question the client on writing bass clef for bass clar., but ultimately, if that's what he wants, that's what I'll give him. Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Working with lyrics
On Oct 6, 2005, at 8:13 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: Greg Hamilton, an excellent Finale copyist/engraver from Vancouver, called yesterday to tell me (among other things) that he had just had to do a project in Sibelius (he was working in Sibelius 3), so he effectively got paid to learn the program. He liked it a lot (and learned it quickly) and says there's much to recommend in it, and among those things was an ease of handling staff spacing. So I suspect that this is something that is handled differently that you just have yet to figure out. Greg, who does really good work, and is both informed and smart, certainly convinced me that there are things that make Sibelius worth considering, but I don't want to have to learn a new program. I want Finale to get better, so there is no important reason to consider switching. Well, I'm with you on wanting to see Finale get better, but that won't help me for current projects. I bought Sibelius because I have clients who prefer it, plus I was attracted to the idea of having score and parts all in one file. I don't feel any particular loyalty to Finale, or any software program, although I guess I'm firmly planted in the Mac world, having used Macs for about 15 years. My first notation program was MOTU's Composer's Mosaic. I bought it at the NAMM show here in L.A. when it was first introduced in '92. Then in '98, when MOTU seemed to be dragging their feet about upgrading Mosaic, I spearheaded a drive to try get them to fix it. I wrote a 40 page report on existing bugs, things that Mosaic did wrong, and features that we wanted added to the program. I had 40 people from all over the world helping me, sending in bug reports and making suggestions for improvements. MOTU sent me a letter, basically thanking me for sharing, and the upgrade never came. The word I got was that MOTU's notation guru moved on, and the company was focusing on Digital Performer and their audio interfaces, so he was never replaced. I was forced to move to another program and chose Finale. This was in 2000, and The Mac version of Sibelius wasn't out yet. After the experience with Mosaic, I decided that being loyal to a particular company was foolish. THEY should be loyal to ME, if they want me to continue using their product and buying their upgrades. So if I ever get the time to learn Sibelius, and if it meets my needs, I'll start using it, and I won't look back. If a company is more concerned with adding bells and whistles that will attract new customers than with keeping the customers they have, why should the existing customers feel any loyalty to that company? This is just a tool, after all, not a religion or a political party. Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Working with lyrics
So I finished this project, 24 tunes, most of them at least 4 pages in length. I had to go with "avoid lyric collisions," because the alternative would have created too many collisions for me to deal with. But using "avoid collisions" created some ugly results. Here's an example: the word "straight" under an 8th note at the end of a measure, tied to a note in the next measure. The left side of the 8th note is 5/8 of an inch to the left of the right barline. That looks really bad. One thing that I noticed: all syllables with word extensions are aligned left (instead of center) by default. When I change the alignment to center, it seems to help. But is that acceptable? Are syllables with word extensions SUPPOSED to be aligned left? Centering looks better to me, but what do I know? I like Cleveland. ;-) (I just looked in a Hal Leonard Beatles songbook, and most syllables with word extensions are aligned left, but some are centered. And I didn't find any of this unsightly extra spacing with tied notes, so whoever did this book either used a program that handles this issue, or else they got rid of the extra space manually.)I also tried doing one of the (shorter) tunes in Sibelius 4, and you're right, Sibelius does seem to handle this tied-note-lyric issue better than Finale. I wonder why. I couldn't use Sibelius for this project, though, because I just don't know that program well enough to get the output to look the way I want it. I find it MUCH easier to change things like staff spacing in Finale. Plus, in Sibelius, I can't figure out how to create measure expressions that are different sizes and different fonts. It appears to me that all measure expressions have to be the same size and font.Anyway, I hope that this tied-note-lyric issue can be addressed by MM in the future, because as it is today, this behavior is unacceptable, and fixing it is a lot of extra work.LonOn Oct 1, 2005, at 11:10 AM, greghamilton wrote:It's funny you should bring this up, I recently noticed this problem with lyrics in Finale ( most of my jobs are instrumental music). I agree, it's annoying and an incorrect engraving practice for lyric protractions. So I called Finale tech. support and spoke to Carla. Her conclusion was there isn't any global setting to correct this and that manual tweaking would be the only solution. Also said she would put it in as a feature request. FYI, Sibelius does a much better job of handling lyric protractions. Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Working with lyrics
I'm working on a batch of lead sheets, and I'm running into some major annoyances about lyric spacing, word extensions, etc.1. Why does Finale not recognize tied notes when avoiding lyric collisions? When I have an 8th note tied to another note, I get a big space between the 8th and the tied note. I don't want that. If I deselect avoid collisions of lyrics, then I get collisions everywhere else. There doesn't seem to be an option to ignore the first note of a group of tied notes. In fact, only the LAST note of a tied group should be recognized in regard to collisions. This is also a problem with chords. Try entering Bbm7(b5) over an 8th tied to another note. You get a BIG space between the two notes.Does ANYONE want this behavior? I seriously doubt it.2. With smart extensions selected I'm having trouble with getting rid of extensions that I don't want, like when an instrumental section immediately follows a lyric, and there's no rest between the two. When I try to delete the unwanted extension, it just gets redrawn. Is this a bug in FinMac 2006, or am I doing something wrong?Lon ********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]><[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/><http://www.txstnr.com> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] FinMac '06 more problems
This seems to be by far the buggiest version that I've seen since I starting using it in 2000.1. Drawing hairpins in a measure with an independent time signature is next to impossible. It's either too short or too long. This is in score only. I was able to make the correct adjustments in the extracted part.2. Here's a really weird one:When I click on "Click and Countoff" in Playback Controls I get this message: Mach 5 UVI Engine "The UVI Engine encountered an error..."Uh... Mach 5 is MOTU's sample player, and has nothing at all to do with Finale. This must be one of those AU-related bugs.Also, I continue to get bitten by the "unable to undo" bug. This is very annoying, because I might want to try something, like applying the Human Playback plugin, expecting to undo it if I don't like the result, and all of a sudden I find that I've lost the ability to undo. When I'm in the middle of intense work, I can't be bothered with checking to see if undo is still active. A few days ago I said that moving to FinMac '06 did not disrupt my workflow. This is no longer the case. I may have to go back to '05 until these bugs get dealt with. Oh, BTW, I did experience the lag when using Mass Mover in page view. Another annoyance.Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] FinMac '06 word extensions
I'm having a problem deleting word extensions in FinMac '06. I'm getting word extensions all the way to the end of a line, where verses 2 and 3 end, and the chorus continues on the same lyric line as the first verse. I select Edit Word Extensions, highlight the offending extensions, hit delete, and they disappear for a split second and then come right back. I'm sure my client won't like two lines running underneath the chorus. How do I get rid of them, or is this yet another FinMac '06 bug? Thanks, Lon ** Lon Price, Los Angeles <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Key change at end of piece
On Aug 3, 2005, at 8:34 PM, John Howell wrote:I had to smile at this, since the saxophone was not invented until about 25 years or so after Haydn's death and was based on the keyed bugle and keyed trumpet, which Haydn DID write for. What did he actually write the sonatina for? I knew someone would catch that. It's based on Trio V.Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] FinMac '06 Problems
Here's another one: I suddenly cannot select a different layer in the menu at the bottom left of Scroll View. This has happened in previous versions, seemed to be fixed in FinMac '05, but now it's back. Saving, closing, and reopening gets it back. Annoying, when you're trying to get work done. Lon ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is upgrading worth it?
On Aug 3, 2005, at 12:04 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:On 03 Aug 2005, at 2:51 PM, Lon Price wrote:How are you getting these RAM reports? I'm using a freeware applet called MemoryCell from Rogue Amoeba:http://www.rogueamoeba.com/freebies/I'm using MenuMeters. It puts RAM (used-unused) and CPU (percent for each processor) numbers in the menu bar.I think MenuMeters may be giving you a misleading picture of the RAM usage on your machine. MemoryCell puts the Private Memory in the memory bar, which is only number you need to worry about here. It sounds like MenuMeters is displaying some other number -- possibly real memory or virtual memory.I tried MemoryCell and got much smaller numbers. When I get a chance, I'll try loading an orchestra. I much appreciate all your help, Darcy. And now, back to work.Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Key change at end of piece
I'm working on a Haydn sonatina for alto sax and piano, and there's a DC al Coda at the end, with an outgoing key change that reflects the key at the start of the piece. The only way I could get this to work is to add one measure at the end, and put in the key change. Then, in Page View, I moved that measure to a separate line and forced a page break, creating a "non-printing" page at the end of the piece. Of course I now have to remember not to print it. Is there a better way to do this?Thanks,Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] FinMac '06 problems
Having done a couple of projects in FinMac '06, I've experienced some problems:1. Multimeasure rests don't show up correctly in a document created with the Setup Wizard with Jazz as the default font. I had no luck trying to fix this. Every time I try to find something like this in the manual I end up throwing up my hands. I got it to work by copying and pasting the entire song into one of my Jazz font templates.2. After copying and pasting an entire song into one of my templates, I completely lost the ability to undo. The undo portion of the Edit menu is completely grayed-out, with "cannot undo" message at the top. I have to save, close, and reopen in order to get undo back.Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is upgrading worth it?
On Aug 2, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:On 02 Aug 2005, at 7:56 AM, Lon Price wrote: I just installed FinMac '06 tonight, and everything went without a hitch. I ran the preinstall app that MM provided, and ran the GPO update after installing Finale. Everything works. Since I have the full version of GPO, I really can see no need for FinGPO, but it's all really a moot point anyway, since my dual 800 G4 with 1 Gig of RAM practicallly chokes on only two GPO instruments, flute and piano, for example. I know that the Steinway sample is a big hog, but I tried the lite version and still my computer was pushed to its very limits--both in RAM and processing power. Try dialing back the polyphony on the piano. The default is 64-note polyphony, but try setting it to 32- or 24-note polyphony. (In Kontakt player, the polyphony is the box with the pair of flagged eighth notes, just to the left of the MIDI box -- for piano, it will say 0/64. Click and hold on the "64" and drag down to adjust this number.)I tried this using AU for playback, and didn't see any perceivable difference, but RAM usage was down to around 400 MB. This is with GPO solo flute and Steinway lite. CPU was at a reasonable range (60-70 %).This afternoon I recorded a piece for flute and piano (Pavane by Fauré) using the GPO Studio in FinMac '05, using Quicktime Pro to make the recording. If you have the most recent version of GPO Studio, you don't need any additional application to make the recording. There is a "record" menu with a "Record to file" option.Well, I guess that might be a good reason for using GPO studio over AU, since AU recording isn't supported yet.Tonight I recorded the same piece, using the same method Using GPO Studio? No, no, no. The whole point of Finale 2006 is the AU playback. Use that instead. It's *much* better than GPO Studio. in FinMac '06 and my RAM usage went to 830 MB, and my processors were again very near 100% the entire way. It seems to me that this method (using GPO Studio, rather than AU) is the only way I can use my own sound modules in combination with GPO That's true, but if you are trying to evaluate the improvements in Finale 2006, you have to actually evaluate the improvements! Your piece for flute and piano is not using any of your external sound modules, only GPO instruments -- so use AU! It's a huge improvement over GPO Studio.Yeah, but I'm anticipating my future need for GPO in combination with my own sound modules. I'm evaluating this stuff for my own use, after all. I tried using the full GPO and AU playback (RAM was again creeping toward 800 MB and CPU was in the 70s to 80s, not as bad as GPO Studio). See, much better!Fine, if GPO is all I use for playback. So far, I don't see that happening here, because I have other sounds that I like better.On the Garriton website it says that a computer with a gig of RAM should be able to load an entire orchestra, but I can't even come close to that on my machine. How are you getting these RAM reports? I'm using a freeware applet called MemoryCell from Rogue Amoeba:http://www.rogueamoeba.com/freebies/I'm using MenuMeters. It puts RAM (used-unused) and CPU (percent for each processor) numbers in the menu bar.I'm not seeing anything like the memory usage you're getting.Finale 2006 by itself, with no documents open, uses 20.1 MB.Using the SetupWizard and GPO Finale edition, creating a new empty document for flute and piano, after loading the AU instruments, Finale is using 214 MB -- about a fourth of what you reported.But what I reported was using GPO Studio. I have FinMac '06 open now, with my flute piece and the GPO samples loaded. Activity Monitor says that Fin is using 258 MB, a little more than you're getting. So I get it. Using AU for playback is a lot more efficient, except that you're then locked into using only GPO for playback, and that doesn't sit well with me. Hey, I just got an offer from NI to get the KONTAKT 2 upgrade for half price ($289.50). They say that I can import my own samples into it, including my Giga versions of Dan Dean solo brass and woodwinds. I also have the Giga version of Garritan Strings (lite). But I wouldn't need to spend the money for this if Finale supported other AU plugins, because I also have MOTU's Mach-5, which will play all of these libraries. I think it's a big mistake on MM's part to have this exclusive relationship with NI.I can definitely load an entire orchestra (winds 4331, percussion, harp, strings), *plus* piano and solo violin, on my Mac, and I only have 1 GB RAM. Of course, I have to use the same channel for instruments that share a single staff (like Flutes 1 & 2) to save memory, and I certainly can't be running any other apps at the same time, but the orchestra *does* load.I ha
Re: [Finale] Is upgrading worth it?
On Aug 2, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:Have you tried messing around with the Mass Mover tool and selecting measures with it? I and a couple of other people running the Mac version have seen lags with the tool. I have a 1.42 Gigahertz Mac Mini and a 933 G4. I did a transcription project last night. I ended up copying and pasting the entire 5 minute song into one of my templates (for reasons I'll address in a later post), and it seemed a lot faster to me than FinMac '05. In fact, I had been experiencing lags in FinMac '05 when copying and pasting. I noticed that you had been experiencing these lags in page view. I have not tried that. I don't ever use Mass Mover in page view, other than to rearrange measures per system.Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is upgrading worth it?
On Aug 2, 2005, at 2:39 AM, dhbailey wrote:My knee-jerk reaction in the past would have been, "Yes, the upgrade is worth it, even if only for the below-the-surface improvements" but with this one I'm not sure. I just installed FinMac '06 tonight, and everything went without a hitch. I ran the preinstall app that MM provided, and ran the GPO update after installing Finale. Everything works. Since I have the full version of GPO, I really can see no need for FinGPO, but it's all really a moot point anyway, since my dual 800 G4 with 1 Gig of RAM practicallly chokes on only two GPO instruments, flute and piano, for example. I know that the Steinway sample is a big hog, but I tried the lite version and still my computer was pushed to its very limits--both in RAM and processing power.This afternoon I recorded a piece for flute and piano (Pavane by Fauré) using the GPO Studio in FinMac '05, using Quicktime Pro to make the recording. With these two instruments loaded my RAM usage went to 600 MB, and my two processors were near 100% for the entire length of the recording.Tonight I recorded the same piece, using the same method in FinMac '06 and my RAM usage went to 830 MB, and my processors were again very near 100% the entire way. It seems to me that this method (using GPO Studio, rather than AU) is the only way I can use my own sound modules in combination with GPO, but man, it hits the computer hard!I also tried recording the same piece using FinGPO (RAM went to around 500 MB and processors were in the 60s to 70s), but the sound quality suffered quite a bit. I tried using the full GPO and AU playback (RAM was again creeping toward 800 MB and CPU was in the 70s to 80s, not as bad as GPO Studio).On the Garriton website it says that a computer with a gig of RAM should be able to load an entire orchestra, but I can't even come close to that on my machine. So I don't see that I'll be using GPO too much until I can upgrade my computer, but I knew that would be the case.Also, none of the flute sounds were really very convincing to my ears, but I a flute player, so you can take that opinion with a grain of salt. I like Dan Dean's solo winds better than GPO, but I can't use them in Finale, because of MM's marriage to GPO and NI.On the other hand:1. I'm very happy to have 8 X 16 MIDI slots, which now means I can use all of my sound modules (dated as they are, I still have a fondness for them). And, like I said, the GPO Studio can be used to load GPO samples along with my sound modules.2. Slurs and hairpins really look 100% better! They're absolutely elegant! (at least compared to the way they used to look on a Mac)3. I completed a Mozart Minuet and Trio, arranged for alto sax and piano, in about an hour, and things seemed to me to be a little snappier than FinMac '05. But keep in mind that I was using my own sounds, since we all know GPO contains no saxes, anyway. (BTW, the demo saxes on Gary's website are pretty impressive to my ears, and I'm a sax player. I'm looking forward to getting that collection as soon as it comes out.) But the important thing to me was that after playing with GPO for a while, I was able to get right back to work. In other words, the upgrade didn't disrupt my workflow the way some previous upgrades did, especially the one where they changed all the Simple Entry keystrokes. Rather than relearn Simple I switched to Speedy and never looked back.4. Human Playback is improved--it almost plays the flute trills and grace notes convincingly.5. The Studio View comes in handy for adjusting volume between the two instruments. I've often seen dynamic markings one degree lower for the piano (sax-f, pno-mf, etc.) in pieces like this, but in this piece dynamics were identical in both parts, so the pno. tended to overpower the sax. No problem, just back off the pno. volume in the mixer. The solo-accompaniment balance can also be adjusted in the HP prefs, BTW. The Tap Tempo has me baffled so far, though. I guess I'll have to read up on that.So, yeah, I think the upgrade is worth the price, even though I probably won't be using GPO much for now, and that's what all the ballyhoo has been about.I'll still be using Digital Performer for recording mockups, though. When it comes to recording, I just don't see Finale giving me the flexibility I have in DP.I'm also waiting for my copy of Sibelius 4 with its much-discussed "dynamic part linking." I'm with Hiro--I'm having fun with all of this stuff. ;-)Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] full GPO not showing up in Wizard
On Jul 31, 2005, at 10:26 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote:I'm not usually one to defend Makemusic, but I think I will here, a little. The question was why the *setup wizard* in particular doesn't recognize libraries other than Finale GPO. As I said, I think the answer is that even though the wizard is certainly theoretically capable of *detecting* other libraries, I don't think it could, on its own, do the other things that the setup wizard does -- namely, give full names to all the instruments and assign them to instrument groups for easy access. On July 9 I asked this list about how I could get my custom instrument list to load when using Setup Wizard. Here's one response:Me:Now, how do I get my instrument library to load in a file created with Setup Wizard? Johannes: I have no idea, actually, playback has never been one of my main concerns...Another response that I got was that MakeMusic never intended for serious users to use the Setup Wizard. Now all of a sudden everyone's concerned about this very same issue. So now we serious users be using Setup Wizard to create a new file? I know that all of my templates will have to be edited to accommodate GPO, provided that I decide to even use it. I still don't see the point in getting GPO playback if you can't save the file as audio. I'd rather use my own sound modules (now that I can access all 8 of them), which don't put a drain on either RAM or processing power, and save the MIDI file (incorporating Human Playback), and then open it in Digital Performer. In that program I can use the full version of GPO, GigaSampler (lite) versions of Dan Dean solo brass and woodwinds (far superior to GPO, accessed through MOTU's Mach-5), VSamp, SoundFonts, and any combination of my 8 sound modules, etc., etc., etc...Also, in response to this post by David Fenton: David: Well, I for one HATE sequencers. Thy don't work in any way that corresponds to how I think about music. I cannot get results out of them that make any musical sense, precisely because they are completely divorced from notation, and I do all my thinking about music in notation.Me:I also prefer to work in the notation "environment." That's why I started doing my work in Finale, and then saving the file as a SMF (Standard MIDI File), because all of the work of actually producing the SMF is done in the Finale notation environment. So when I open the file in Digital Performer, I don't have to deal with the MIDI numbers--they're already there! But I then have the ability to reassign instruments to whatever I want to use (listed above). I can now record my music with a great deal of flexibility--one track at a time, If I want. So I'm not having to mess with the sequencing part of DP, only the recording part. DP also has the QuickScribe window, which allows me to view my SMF in actual musical notes! I can view transposing instruments correctly, I can use treble, bass, alto and tenor clefs, and so on. I can also record "real" instruments. For example:I'm currently putting together of series of books and play-along CDs for my woodwind students--solo instrument with piano accompaniment. I create the contents of the book in Finale (both parts--solo inst. and piano). I then save it as a SMF and open it in DP. There I record only the piano, which is then included on the CD. But if I want to also record myself playing the solo part on the "real" instrument (as an example for my students), I can do that too.Your statement might apply to MIDI sequencing as it was maybe 15-20 years ago, but today's sequencing software has come a long way since then. And as I've said before, if I could convince MOTU to give me full-featured notation in Digital Performer, I wouldn't have any use for Finale at all. It seems to me that MakeMusic sees the writing on the wall: If a full-featured sequencing-audio recording program ever get it together to include full-featured notation, they (MM) would be in serious trouble. So they're trying to get there from the other direction, and they've got a long way to go, especially since they seem to be getting in bed with Native Instruments. If MM is really serious about giving us professional quality playback, they'd better rethink that marriage.Just my somewhat-less-than-humble opinion,Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
On Jul 30, 2005, at 2:44 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:If you're going to use a different file for playback, why not just save your printable score as MIDI then use a sequencer to tweak playback? Why use Finale at all for creating a playback file if you're going to fork your playback from the printed score? I agree. That's exactly what I do for playback. And when I open my Finale-generated MIDI file in Digital Performer, all of my repeats are played correctly (provided I configured them correctly), and HP creates a tempo map that follows rit. and accel. markings, as well as fermatas. I can then fine tune the MIDI file, and have it played by combination of sounds, only limited by my computer's ability to handle it. Finale will be able to give the user all of the features that a dedicated sequencer/audio recording program offers. In my opinion, anyone who thinks they can do it all in Finale is just dreaming. And why should you? It's a program.Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Click Tracks with GPO
On Jul 30, 2005, at 2:44 PM, dhbailey wrote:n the past, even when there hasn't been much of great import touted in the upgrades, I have found each one I have purchased (every one since I started using version 3.5) to have had significant numbers of small improvements all through the program. I have never been disappointed until now. For me, a Mac user, that fact the I can now use all 8 of my sound modules for playback is worth the price of the upgrade. I am disappointed that I can't use my modules in combination with the included GPO library, but I was among the many list members involved in the GPO group buy last month, and so I can use version of GPO in combination with my sound modules. I'll bet Gary Garritan is smiling like the Cheshire Cat over that bit of marketing. He gets a bunch of us to buy GPO for a cut rate, and we're all thinking we're getting this great bargain. Then, a month later, MakeMusic announces that GPO is rolled into the next upgrade of Finale. Well, as it turns out, I the full version of GPO in order to combine it with my sound modules, so I'm not really complaining. Now, if only I could afford a computer powerful enough to actually all this stuff. ;-)Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2006/GPO
On Jul 15, 2005, at 3:18 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:Lon, GPO Jazz/Big Band will have the full range of saxophones, from sopranino through sub-contrabass, and including C-melody and mezzo-soprano saxes. (Personally, I think that's overkill, but this sounds like something you'd want to pick up.) - Darcy Yeah, I'm planning to get that. I wasn't aware that Gary was taking preorders. I wonder if he'll do a group buy... That GPO group buy was sweet, wasn't it?LP ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2006/GPO -- MakeMusic's reply to my request for saxophones
On Jul 15, 2005, at 2:07 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:You have to suspend disbelief in order to accept any of these sounds. They only remotely resemble the sound of the instruments they represent. I'd like saxophones too, but when they come, they won't sound real anyway. For me, it's not that much of a stretch to substitute a different inadequate imitation for what I hope will be a somewhat better inadequate imitation. I'm not trying to start a war here. I hope for improved samples and improved (and simple) control, as I assume many others do. But I don't think it's going to ruin the "sketch" of my musical architecture for some of the colors to be off. It's only a sketch.It seems to me that trying to use playback from Finale Sibelius as a mockup of a large work is just asking for problems. First of all, to get a large orchestra played by GPO is gonna take a huge amount of RAM, and you're gonna need a mighty powerful computer to do it besides. If you try to record a section at a time using Human Playback, the result will be out of sync, because of fluctuations in tempo, unless there's a way to use exactly the same tempo map for each pass. If there's a way to do that in Finale I don't know about it. If you use Human Playback you'll get a mechanical performance. And how are you gonna put the pieces together anyway? Do you have a program that'll do that for you? Here's where the discussion gets to the big argument about what these programs should really be used for. All of these playback features being added to Finale are kinda nice to have, but I don't expect to be able to use Finale for creating a satisfactory mockup. I find Human Playback useful, but I use it to create a MIDI file, which I then open in my favorite MIDI sequencing/audio recording software, which happens to be MOTU's Digital Performer. In DP I can record one instrument at a time if I need to, and the exact same tempo map is used for each pass. I can use a combination of sounds from my sound modules (I have 8, including two of the old Proteus/2 Orchestral modules), MOTU's Mach-5 sample player-editor, GPO, V-Samp, loops taken out of Garage Band, and on and on. After I record everything, I can mix it all down into one stereo file, and then export it in any audio format, including WAV, AIFF, SDII, or even MP3. I'm sorry, but I don't think Finale will give me the ability to do all of that, nor would I expect it to. After all, I've got DP for that. And if I could get MOTU to give me full-featured notation in DP, then I wouldn't need Finale Sibelius at all. But MOTU reps have assured me that full-featured notation will never happen in DP either, so there you go.Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2006/GPO
Being a sax player myself, I find this thread well, amusing. But seriously, there's not much out there in sample library that comes even close to covering saxophones. The Vienna Library saxes ($265 at Sweetwater) have only tenor and soprano--no alto or bari even. Forget C-melody, bass, contrabass, etc.--you gotta be dreaming. ;-) No orchestral sample library that I know of has saxes, and believe me, I've looked. I need 'em for mockups of my "horn" arrangements. No, so far, saxes haven't been dealt with realistically in the sample library world.********Lon Price, Los Angeles<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]><http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/>On Jul 15, 2005, at 10:37 AM, John Howell wrote:Umm, am I the only one to whom it has occurred that at the very least, alto and tenor sax are ORCHESTRAL INSTRUMENTS, and are played with a sound the is quite different from a jazz sound? As are the saxes in wind ensembles. Thinking that a single set of sax samples will serve all possible uses just isn't realistic. There's no question but that they belonged in the orchestral set of samples. Somebody dropped the ball, or wasn't thinking in real world terms.___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale in the Education Market (Was Dynamic Parts)
On Jul 10, 2005, at 2:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:But once you're in simple entry, I just don't seen enough differences to make a difference, except for the kindergarten large size of the page layout in Finale (something that has always made no sense to me at all). I just tried setting up a piano quartet, and the Sibelius 4 demo got it exactly right, with 3 staves per page, whereas Finale came up with such huge staves that it can mange only 2 per page. So, yes, to get printout that looks decent in Finale, you've got to know how to adjust page layout, whereas Sibelius is smart enough to get things right on the first try. But in terms of getting music in, I don't see much difference between the two. Here's one very simplistic example: Say you have a piano part that's basically "two-beat"--that is, LH on 1 and 3, and RH on 2 and 4. You enter the LH notes first: note-rest-note-rest. Now the RH: In Finale, if you want notes on beats two and four, you have to enter rest-note-rest-note. In Sibelius you can just point the cursor to beat 2 and enter a note, then do the same for beat 4--no need to enter rests on beats 1 and 3--they are added automatically. In other words, Sibelius allows mid-measure note entry (in an empty measure), while Finale doesn't. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another thing Sibelius has
On Jul 9, 2005, at 2:55 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:Which version of Finale, pre or post Engraver slurs. If you are using a recent version it sounds to me like your font annotation has gone crazy, or your Engraver slur settings are wrong. There are problems with Engraver slurs, but it sounds you are having addtional problems.I'm using FinMac 2005b. If my Engraver slur settings are wrong, what should they be, and how do I change them? Would that be Smart Slur Options? What should the numbers be? I haven't changed anything in there, so what I'm saying is I'm getting what I'm getting by default. The setup wizard uses the pagesizes.txt file for margins, so the ones in the default file get overlooked. Change the pagesizes.txt file, look it up in the appendix of the manual.The appendix was no help. I found the file in the Components folder. This is the kind of thing that drives me crazy about Finale. Sure, it's a powerful program, but trying to figure things out, especially when you're under the gun, can be very frustrating.Now, how do I get my instrument library to load in a file created with Setup Wizard?Thanks for your help,Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another thing Sibelius has
On Jul 8, 2005, at 11:07 AM, John Howell wrote:Ummm, save you the time and knowledge base needed to create your template? I, for one, don't speak EPVU or whatever the heck it is! It's my son who investigated Sibelius, not me, but my understanding from him is that the House Styles give you instantly available setups, but that the program also gives you the ability to change the default settings in those setups. I may be wrong, but that's a BIG time saver, especially since when Sibelius first became available for U.S. platforms the default settings in Finale were absolutely dreadful. (And yes, I've been on the list long enough to have seen the discussion of "nobody's presets are going to give me exactly what I want, so I'm going to have to tweak everything anyway." That's a valid argument for a professional engraver. It is NOT a valid argument for the average Finale user, who just wants to get his music printed and IS going to use the default settings.Time and knowledge base indeed. I'm one of those people who are sick of tweaking, and would like for the default settings to be at least to usable. I'm working on a book of pieces for flute and piano for my students, and I find that I'm having to do a lot of tweaking to get things to look right:1. Virtually slur has to be tweaked. If I change the music spacing I can pretty much count on slurs going haywire, being drawn at an ungodly height, for instance, and colliding with all manner of notational elements--ties, accidentals, expressions, etc. But even when I let Finale do the spacing, slurs still get drawn at ungodly heights. Transposing the music makes slurs go nuts too.2. Same with tuplets. I thought these had been improved, but when I do a simple group of quarter triplets, using Speedy note entry, the bracket is almost never the right height, requiring more tweaking. Then if I transpose the part, I have to tweak tuplets all over again.3. Where is the freaking Maestro Default file, and how do I tweak so that I don't get a one-inch left margin on a file created from the Setup Wizard? I thought I'd located it in the Components folder, so I tweaked the page layout settings for both score and parts to get rid of the one-inch left margin. Then, lo and behold, the next time I used the Setup Wizard I still got one-inch left margins. I have templates made for a lot of situations, but not situation, so I need to use the Setup Wizard occasionally, as I suspect most users do. Why is it such a mystery where this default file is located, and why is it so hard to preset things the way I want in Finale? Wouldn't House Styles eliminate this problem?4. I spent a lot of time creating an extensive instrument list, called Lon's Orchestra, that covers just about every instrument I'll ever need to use in Finale. I got tired of having to load my instrument library into every file created with the Setup Wizard, so while I was tweaking page layout settings, I also loaded my instrument list into this supposed Maestro Default file. That didn't work either. The next time I used the Setup Wizard my instrument list was not there.These are the types of complains I've heard from people who have tried Finale in the past, but moved on to some other notation program, usually Sibelius. I tried looking in the manual for answers to the above stated problems, but gave up in frustration, because I guess I just don't know where to look--and that's after looking in the Table of Contents and the Index. If I don't know exactly how something is worded, I can't find it in the manual. I remember having to ask you guys when I first bought Finale how to beam across staves, because I couldn't find it in the manual. I didn't know that it was called "cross-staff beaming." (I just tried looking in Finale QuickHelp for "beaming across staves," and was directed to the Mass Mover tool.)BTW, I ordered the $199 "cross-grade" of Sibelius last night, and, yes, I've already preordered Finale 2006, so I'm not necessarily jumping ship, but I'm close. These issues have been bugging me for the entire five + years that I've been using Finale.Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sibelius - Dynamic Parts
On Jul 7, 2005, at 5:55 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:Thinking about this theory even more, why on earth any of these composers who want playback more than output chose Finale in the first place, is am complete mystery to me. And I doubt that even with the latest improvements Finale is going to be the right choice. What they want is a sequencer with notation capability. Not an engraving tool with limited output capability. If Finale is now going to compete with Sequencers I may very well leave the ship quite soon. In fact I may do that anyway, unless we get linked parts and score. I just spent several days revising score, parts and my intermediate score file. It was a nightmare. If Digital Performer had decent notation I would never have bought Finale. I've always wanted one program to do it all, but have always been told that that'll never happen. This requires me to do my work twice--in Finale for printout, and in Digital Performer for a decent sounding mockup. I used to start in DP, and since opening a MIDI file in Finale required too much tweaking, I had to start from scratch to recreate the same file in Finale. Then I discovered that if I start in Finale, and then open the MIDI file in DP, there's a lot less tweaking to do to get decent playback. And Human Playback helps to get a less mechanical-sounding mockup. Now with GPO, it's almost possible for me to get what I need in Finale alone, although I'm a little disappointed in GPO (at $139 I can't really complain--you get what you pay for). I can see that the addition of a mixer in Finale will be helpful in getting my mockup made. But Finale has a long way to go before it can even begin to compete with DP or Logic. And judging from what I've read here, that's not the path most listers want to see MM take.I'm surprised that this dynamic part linking issue is suddenly such a big deal to everybody. Like I said in an earlier post, MOTU's Mosaic had that feature, and if MOTU hadn't completely abandoned that program, I would never have bought Finale. I've always missed this feature since coming to Finale. But until this announcement from Sibelius, I don't remember anybody making much of a fuss about dynamic parts on this list. Now all of a sudden almost everybody wants this feature, and claim to have wanted it all along. I'll tell you this. Since getting on the Finale bandwagon, I've tried to be a loyal user, resisting the urge to jump ship and go with Sibelius, even though I have clients who would like me to do so. But this dynamic parts feature is awfully appealing to me--enough so that I may just have to bite the bullet and make that jump to Sibelius.Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Dynamic Parts in Finale
On Jul 6, 2005, at 10:02 AM, David W. Fenton wrote:It seems to me self-evident that linked parts are the way Finale should have been designed from the beginning. The spawing of individual independent files, while perhaps dictated by the realities of computer processing power at the time Finale was designed, make no sense at all when Finale is viewed as a database program. The data file is a database, and there are various report views for showing that data and subsets of that data. That is a perfectly natural way to think of the program and the presentation of its data. You know, MOTU's Composer's Mosaic was designed this way, and was the reason I went with it instead of Finale in 1990. Mosaic gave the user the ability to create as many "views" of his/her music as wanted--either scroll views or page views--and all were contained within a single file. One could open any or all views, and then toggle between them. You could put together a scroll view of just the woodwinds, for example. You could have a concert score and a transposed score in the same file, and of course all of the parts, either transposed or concert. Where MOTU dropped the ball was the fact that any change made anywhere affected everywhere else. Tweaking the score to make it look right screwed up the parts, and vice versa. We users had to end up creating two files--one for parts and the other for the score. Besides that, the program was really buggy and needed a lot of work. Unfortunately (for us Mosaic users), MOTU introduced Digital Performer at about the same time, and eventually virtually all of their R&D went into that program, and, even though we users tried to get them not to, MOTU abandoned Mosaic altogether (although they still sell it). My report on Mosaic is still on my website: <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/index11.html> in case anyone is interested in reading it.Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO - a little disappointing
On Jul 4, 2005, at 5:56 PM, John Bell wrote:You say that the keyswitches don't work for you. Sorry if this is obvious, but are you sure you've loaded the KS Instruments? eg, for Violins I: Vlns 1 KS Combo; and for Flute: Flute Solo KS.That's what I get for not reading the manual. (I assume this is documented there.) Anyway, KS expressions are now working for me. Thanks so much for your kind help. This was pretty tricky, though. The KS.lib file showed up as a page of binary code, which always kinda freaks me out, but I saved it to my desktop and tried loading it in Finale, and it worked (after selecting "All Files"). And thanks for the help with Finale MIDI Setup. This also works with sound modules, but you'll only be able to use the first 8 MIDI channels in each module that is sharing a slot--still kinda lame in my opinion.You don't need to create new switches for every project. If you import the library into your default Finale file, they are always there. You can edit them to your liking even if you don't understand the computer jargon. In GPO you can save various ensembles as .gpo files. What you do need to do for every project is to assign channels to instruments in Finale. That shouldn't take very long.Now that I understand the KS thing, the only thing that's holding me back is my ancient dual 800 G4 with "only" 1 GB of RAM. I tried loading four GPO players to create a "virtual orchestra," but I maxed out my RAM halfway through loading the string section. If I need a mockup of a full orchestra, I'd need to do it in Digital Performer, recording each section one at a time.Thanks again for your help,Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO - a little disappointing
On Jul 4, 2005, at 2:18 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:Ths library file in question does indeed load on a Mac, if "All files" is activeAs I said in an earlier post, I got it to load, but the key switches didn't work. I also updated GPO and Kontakt Player per your suggestion, but still got no results. How are these switches supposed to work? The flute N.V. switch is set to in playback to "dump," with "Number of Units: 3" and "Data: $90, $32 and $40." I have no clue what any of this means. Is it setting itself to actually load a sound, which would never work in real time? It seems to me that these switches need to instantly switch to a pre-loaded sound, and that is far easier to accomplish by simply setting playback to the channel that contains the desired sound (mentioned in an earlier post). The problem with this method is that you'd have create new switches for every new project, or else create every new project from an existing template with exactly the same sounds loaded in exactly the same places. I'm beginning to think this is getting to be more trouble than it's worth, as Johannes said: "Perhaps I would have to spend more time on the Finale files, but that's precisely what I hoped to avoid with GPO."Also, I downloaded the GPO Template document, but that won't work for me either, since FinMac has only four outputs, each with 16 channels. I take this to mean that GPO2-1 would be output 17 on a Mac, instead of 9. Which brings up the question: why do we only get four outputs on a Mac, when PC users get 8? The more I get into this stuff the more I begin to realize that Finale MIDI implementation is still behind the times. What I really want Finale for is to print out my music. I use Digital Performer for everything else. Getting decent playback in Finale is a nice luxury, if it can be accomplished without much fuss, but when all is said and done, I don't really need it, other than to check for errors.Sorry for the rant,Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO - a little disappointing
On Jul 4, 2005, at 1:34 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote:You will have to unstuff this file with the latest Stuffit Expander, error -12 seems to happen when a file is unstuffed with something else, at least here.JohannesI finally got the file to load, but the expressions don't seem to do anything. I loaded the flute-piano multi and tried to get the flute to alternate between vib. and N.V. Application of the GPO Key Switches didn't get any results. I got it to work by creating two different flutes (vib. and N.V.) in the Instrument List. Then I created my own expressions, assigning them to playback on different channels, as explained in the tutorial: Fl. vib. on channel 2 and Fl. N.V. on channel 3, and that worked.Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO - a little disappointing
On Jul 3, 2005, at 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I provided the Keyswitch _expression_ files on the GPO website. For future reference, the one library file that you said was not useable for you, is not true. It's a Finale text _expression_ library in a text file format. You can download to your HD. When you want to load that library to a document, choose show "all files". It should load correctly. If it doesn't download correctly it might be a browser problem. Just exactly where would I find this file? The only one I found showed up as a Finale document, and would not load (error -12).Thanks,Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Buying sheet music
On Jan 31, 2005, at 1:47 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: I just bought Emmanuel Pahud's Fauré Flute Fantaisie CD, and was very inspired. The printed music I studied with when I was in College was printed in Japan, and it doesn't look that authentic, and would like to purchase a real stuff once for all. Kinda embarrassing question but I'd appreciate any recommendation what I should be looking for and if possible to find a good place to purchase online. Sheet Music Plus has Fantasie Flute Solos w/pno. acc. for $7.95 (Belwin), Fantasy for Flute and Piano, Op. 79 (Kalmus) for $9.95, Fantasy, Op. 79 (International Music Co.) for $8.50, and Fantasie Op79 (Shawnee Press.) for $13.95. That's from searching in about 120 of over 700 Fauré titles available through them. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] (Moving OT) The good, the bad, and the difference?
On Feb 1, 2005, at 6:06 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: Next component, then: Who will begin the educational change? Ouch, ouch, this is very tough. We've lost one generation of educators, now unfamiliar with nonpop (whether new or old, classical or electroacoustic or performance-art based or any other kind, or even jazz, which has collapsed toward history and commerce, save for artists like David Ware). Even those who were and are conversant with it have not enabled students with the bundle of tools for writing, for making their own mark on musical history, and for inventing their own ideas. One of my private alto saxophone students (age 13) was given the assignment (by his school band director) of pairing up with another student to do a duet, and was told that he could write his own composition for this project. He paired up with another alto sax player, wrote them a piece, and when a trombone player couldn't find a partner, my student offered to write him a part. The result sounds pretty good for a 13-year-old. And he did it in Finale! Another alto sax student of mine (5th grade) signed up for jazz band, and was asked by his band director to play an improvised solo on "C Jam Blues." This kid's been playing since Sept. of last year, so he doesn't even know all of his sharps and flats yet. I usually wait until a student has a good general knowledge of his instrument before even thinking about teaching him improvisation. But now this kid is really excited about playing the sax, especially since I showed him what could be done with five notes (the minor pentatonic scale). On the negative side, my brother teaches music at the grade school level in a low-income section of Portland, Oregon. His students will have no music at all after they leave him--no music at the middle school or high school level. He says that school officials, when given the choice of cutting the arts or raising classroom sizes, opt for cutting the arts more often than not. Here in L.A., the infamous Prop. 13 property tax cut that occurred in the early '80s devastated the school arts programs across the board (and some sports programs as well, heaven forbid! No football?). The state lottery was supposed to help our schools, but so far I don't see that it's helped the arts programs at all, but who's fault is that? The parents have to be the ones who put the pressure on school officials, and if they have no interest in the arts themselves--but look at what happened in our last presidential election. I assume everyone has seen that red-and-blue map, showing by geographical area how our country voted. If that kind of thing continues in this country, what chance do arts programs have? Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On Jan 31, 2005, at 5:03 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Nonetheless, there was a time in the mid-century when many composers, in my opinion, went wildly off track and abandoned even their willing potential audiences. That has not been the case for an extremely long time (at least 30 years now), but the audience for serious music in the US (at least) has not returned. Around that same time, jazz began to lose it's audience as well, with the advent of bebop. The reason for this was that tempos got too fast to dance to, and no one besides the musicians themselves could really understand or appreciate what was going on melodically or harmonically. With the advent of the avant-garde, jazz audiences began staying away in droves. So now we have the smooth jazz artists pandering to the public in an attempt to get them back. Haven't the minimalist composers done something similar, declaring that it is now okay to write a major triad, or to play music that the audience can tap its feet to? I imagine that the blue-haired matrons in serious music audiences can handle minimalism much better than they could atonalism. Other audiences may be coming to the music, but the natural audience for serious music retains (especially including conservatory-trained performers) a certain degree of hostility to new music. I was fortunate enough to hear the world premier performance of Ligeti's Violin Concerto in Paris in 1994. The hall was packed, and they wouldn't let Ligeti off the stage when he was brought on for bows. The applause must have gone on for fifteen minutes. Also on the program were Schoenberg's "Ode to Napolean," and "Dreamtime," a piece for tuba, harp and small orchestra by Philippe Boesmans. I never saw such an enthusiastic audience--made me want to move there. Each summer I work coaching young musicians and it seems to me that very few of them are getting much in the way of real training in making music. Indeed, I despair over the fact that most of them seem to not even be all that excited about what they are doing in the first place. I have about 40 woodwind students, and it seems that very few of them have much enthusiasm for what they're doing. I'm constantly trying to think up ways to get them interested enough to practice once in a while. And if one of them shows real promise, what then? I don't want to tell them, "You're gonna get replaced by a virtual orchestra machine someday." But neither do I want to give them false hope. You said, "Maybe we are in the twilight of our art form." Maybe Art itself is in its twilight, because I don't see that any other art form is in any better shape these days. Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On Jan 31, 2005, at 7:27 AM, John Howell wrote: At 1:08 PM -0800 1/30/05, Lon Price wrote: The problem starts at the college level. Performance majors are so busy learning the established literature that they have no time to devote to a new student work, or at least that was my experience when I studied composition at USC. If the composition was technically difficult, requiring a lot of rehearsal time, which a lot of new music tends to be, no one seemed interested in investing the time and effort it would take to learn it. It seemed to me that composition students tended to "dumb down" their music in order to get it played. I refused to do that, so the only piece of mine that got a performance was the aforementioned orchestral piece. So writing music that is accessible and playable is dumbing down? I've also heard that called pandering to one's audience. Which means that complexity and difficulty equals quality? No, but neither does it mean complex and difficult equals bad, just because it's hard to play and hard for the general public to accept. Forgive me, but that does not compute. I don't know your work, Lon, and it may be terrific, but aren't you describing everything that went wrong during the 20th century in the shrinking world of "art" music, where most composers have to have day jobs? When I was in college the first time, at North Texas State, Gunther Schuller spent a week there as composer in residence. He gave a lecture in which he stated, "All tonal music is dead. It is impossible to write original music in the tonal realm. All tonal music has already been written. Serial composition is the only answer." This was in 1965, and the jazz composers in the audience nearly rioted, since most jazz has always been tonal. Even the Avant-Garde jazz of Coltrane, Shepp, Ayler, et al, usually at least had a tonal center. We put on a concert that week, and it was the only time that jazz players and what we "jazzers" called "legit" players shared the stage. I played an alto sax solo on a twelve-tone big band piece title "Volume Twelve." My solo was completely free-form--no key, no tone center, no strict tempo. Some of Schuller's Third Stream music was performed as well, all of it twelve-tone. It was pretty funny hearing the "legit" players trying to swing. When I enrolled at USC in 1993, my background was as a jazz and rhythm & blues tenor sax player. (My screen name is "Texas Tenor" without the vowels.) I had no experience composing "legit," or what most of you guys like to call "Art Music." (I don't like that term, because it implies that other music genres are not art. But that's another can of worms.) As a listener, I was drawn to the Twentieth Century composers: Stravinsky, Bartok, Messiaen, Schoenberg, Berg, etc. None of these composers wrote music that was particularly easy to play, and their music is not featured in concert programs nearly as often as the DWEM club. But that is where I'm coming from as a LISTENER, so it was fairly logical to go there as a composer. Of course the composers that I listed wrote in a pretty wide variety of styles, but I think it's safe to say that all of them wrote music that I would find hard to just sightread flawlessly on the first reading (or second, or third). So my "serious" compositions tend to be atonal, and not always easy to play. Find a market. Compose for that market. Or don't; it's your choice Well, I live in Hollywood, so I know all about that. I could have gone the smooth jazz route. I could write and play that music in my sleep. But that's not what I'm into, as a player or a composer. I've written some jazz tunes that I think are fairly accessable. But I was under the impression that the college experience was all about experimentation, pushing the envelope, trying new things. It certainly was that way back in the '60s at North Texas. My belief is that one should write what he or she feels, not influenced by any particular market, and then hope that there's a market for it. Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
On Jan 30, 2005, at 4:45 AM, dhbailey wrote: For many people, notation is how we learned to represent music on paper, so it is second nature for us to create compositions and then have a program like Finale perform them for us, either to use as a demo or simply so that we can hear it. Many people write music knowing it won't ever get a live performance -- who can afford to hire their own orchestra to perform their latest symphony or concerto or overture? And it is next to impossible to get new works performed by existing orchestras, not when they feel safe and require little rehearsal time when they play the DEWM literature from the 1700s and 1800s. So the likelihood of a new symphony ever being performed by live musicians ranges from slim to none. The problem starts at the college level. Performance majors are so busy learning the established literature that they have no time to devote to a new student work, or at least that was my experience when I studied composition at USC. If the composition was technically difficult, requiring a lot of rehearsal time, which a lot of new music tends to be, no one seemed interested in investing the time and effort it would take to learn it. It seemed to me that composition students tended to "dumb down" their music in order to get it played. I refused to do that, so the only piece of mine that got a performance was the aforementioned orchestral piece. I got that piece performed because of a departmental "call for scores." My piece was one of five selected out of fourteen submitted. The orchestra had three rehearsals to learn five pieces that were completely new. They could have spent the entire rehearsal time on any one of the pieces, and probably would have fallen short of really nailing it. So the result was far from satisfactory from the composers' point of view. But we were all happy to at least get a performance. That doesn't remove the need some have for composing such grand works, though, so a program like Finale is perfect for them. Sequencers don't cut it for many of us because they require perfect keyboard skills to enter all the various parts, and I find them very hard to work with while I find notation very easy to work with. Actually, the whole concept of sequencing is geared toward the player who does NOT have perfect keyboard skills. The notes can be played in slowly and then sped up, or you can enter them one at a time (called "step recording"). As I stated before, I used to begin a composition in Performer, and then redo it from scratch in a notation program for score and parts. Now I've found that I can work directly in Finale, and because of the new playback capabilities, I can get a decent audio demo, without having to port it over to DP. I too am more comfortable working with notation. DP has notation, but it's very limited. So while for many, the use of Finale is to create printed music that humans will perform from, for many others, the use is purely personal, and that is why things like GPO or other high-quality playback engines are such a god-send, allowing for much better playback than the old FM synthesizers in the early soundcards. I wonder how much great music is out there, existing only on paper, that no one has ever heard. Most of the music of Charles Ives comes to mind. What if those scores had never been found? (I know, some would say, "no great loss! I never cared for his stuff anyway.") Now at least we have the ability to record what we've written, so that others can hear it, without the need of rounding up the players for a performance. But I still prefer to get a performance when I can. In other words, in my case, I don't ever want a virtual orchestra to replace live players, except out of necessity. Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
d never even have to come in physical contact with another person. When the work is done he can email or messenger his work to the production office. A so-called "serious" composer can create a body of work which is not tainted by the influence of another human being. He can then package it himself and sell it online, if he even cares about such mundane matters. Smooth jazz artists have being doing this very thing for a number of years. Get a nice drum loop going, add keys and bass, playing a nice vamp, preferably in the dorian mode, blow some tasty horn or guitar over the top. Multiply by ten, and you've got product, man! Package it up and list it on Amazon and iTunes, and sit back and wait for the money to roll in. But that's not me. I need to interact with other players. I value and respect what others bring to the performance. But again, that's just me, and I'm feeling more and more among the minority every day. Best to all, Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan and other stuff
I'd like to put my 2 cents in on this playback issue. I've been using MOTU's Performer (now Digital Performer) for sequencing and recording since 1990. I bought MOTU's Mosaic at the NAMM show the weekend that it was released. I hoped that I could use Performer as a writing tool, which would also give me a decent demo of my work, and then open the SMF in Mosaic, and quickly print my music to be played by live players. I quickly discovered that the SMF looked terrible in Mosaic, even after quantizing everything perfectly. It required so much fixing that it was actually faster to start over in Mosaic, entering the entire arrangement from scratch. This was a big disappointment for me, because it meant doing all of my work twice. After MOTU failed to support Mosaic through upgrades, I moved to Finale. This was in 2000. I continued to work the same as before, sequencing my music in Digital Performer, then starting over from scratch in Finale in order to print my music out. Only now I had to learn a completely new (to me) notation program, with a pretty high learning curve. And I was still doing my work twice. MOTU began to add some notation features to DP's Quickscribe editor, I assume in order to appease those of us who wanted better notation--alto and tenor clefs, transposed parts, dynamics, repeats, etc. But the last couple of upgrades of DP had no new notation features, and I think that MOTU just decided that they'd leave notation to Finale and Sibelius. And let's face it--DP's Quickscribe will never give us all the notation features that a dedicated notation program like Finale offers. So I was still stuck doing all of my work twice. Now Finale begins to add playback features that seem to have quite a few people excited. Human Playback, plus the ability to use a sample player, such as GPO, may mean that someone like me can just do all of his/her work in Finale, and create a decent demo without having to go into another program to do it. As long as it's a demo you're going for, I mean, how good does it really have to be? If you make it TOO good, the client might just use IT, instead of hiring all those players. And at least I wouldn't have to do my work twice! BTW, I've tried saving a Finale file, with Human Playback applied, as an SMF and opening it in DP, where I have access to MOTU's Mach-5 sample player. It only takes a few minutes to record the music and save it as a burnable audio file. And it sounds pretty organic. I tried selecting Romantic as my Human Playback style, and the tempo fluctuated all the way through the piece, which showed up in DP, making playback even more organic. But if I can access a sample player in Finale, why even go to DP at all? Now, we're still talking demos here. As to Hiro's story about losing his gig because the company got sued by the union for replacing players with sequenced parts--all I can say is that they deserved to get sued, and I hope the union won. I'm sorry you lost work, Hiro, but however great your sequences were, they couldn't have been as good as having real players, and what about putting those players out of work? Our union here in LA is currently picketing the Pantages Theatre for using a "virtual orchestra." I mean no offense to you, Hiro. I just hate to see musicians losing work to samplers. Perhaps in the (hopefully very far!) future people will forget what real instruments sound like. I hope I'm dead and gone by then, because that will be a very sad day. All the best to all, Lon Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Who are you?
Lon Price: I'm a sax player (doubling on clar. & flute) and composer/arranger born in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area in 1946, currently living in Hollywood, CA (since 1977). I participated in the jazz program at North Texas State U. (now U. of North Texas) between 1964 and 1969, playing the jazz tenor chair in the One O'clock Band in '69. I toured with Wayne Cochran and the C.C. Riders in '72, when I met and actually roomed with electric bass legend Jaco Pastorius. After a Tom Jones tour in '73 I moved to New Orleans and lived there until the move to L.A. While in N.O. I did a lot of studio work with Allen Toussaint, including "Lady Marmalade," the mega-hit by Labelle (I still get new use checks for that one). Here in L.A. I still do studio work, both as a player and as an arranger/orchestrator/copyist--mostly doing horn charts for record dates. I played the alto sax solo on Al Jarreau's "We're In This Love Forever." I also have played with local band Billy Vera and the Beaters since '79. The band had a no. 1 hit, "At This Moment," in '87. I continued my education from '93 to '96, studying "legit" composition at U. of Southern Cal. I studied with Erica Muhl, Steven Hartke, Donald Crockett and Frank Tichelli, and had a piece performed by the USC Symphony (a huge thrill for an old R&B and jazz sax player). About five years ago began teaching private lessons in two local music stores, and I've found that to be very rewarding work (I think I'm learning more than most of my students). I started working with MIDI in 1988, using a Roland D-50 and a Yamaha 2-track sequencer. From there I graduated to an Atari computer and Steinberg's Pro 24 sequencing software. I bought my first Mac in 1990 and began using MOTU's Performer and Composer's Mosaic (My orchestra piece for USC was done in Mosaic). When MOTU stopped upgrading Mosaic, I bought Finale 2000 as a cross-grade from Mosaic for $199 (a great deal, in my opinion). I've used Finale for all notation work ever since, always upgrading it as soon as a new version comes available. I now use MOTU's Digital Performer for MIDI sequencing and audio recording, mainly to create demos and play-along CDs for my students. Most of what I do on my computer is preparing music to be played by real live musicians. I don't use pencil and paper much any more. When writing a new piece, I've found that I can work directly in Finale, then save as a MIDI file, and open it in DP in order to create a demo. Last year I wrote three pieces for flute and piano without ever touching pencil to paper. I do use pencil and paper for transcription work, however, as I've found that the computer just gets in the way for that particular job. I'm very happy with Finale as a music notation tool, and I'm also grateful for this list and the many kind people who have helped me over the past 5 years. Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] File Overwrite Bug Bites Again! (FinMac2005a)
On Nov 24, 2004, at 6:11 PM, Brad Beyenhof wrote: On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:10:32 -0500, Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hmm, this would mean that if we opened all the parts MANUALLY, then the bug might not bite? This is very interesting. Darcy, we might have our bacon saved after all. DON'T automatically open the parts, but open them all manually at once after extraction, and we would be safe. Hmm. The File Overwrite bug has never bitten me, but I never have the program automatically open parts upon extraction. If I ever have two files open, they are parts only... I never have the score open at the same time as one of its parts. This working method may be partly responsible for my never being bitten by the bug... even when I've attempted to reproduce it using files Darcy has sent me. I've never experienced this bug, and I routinely do automatically open parts on extraction, which means that the score is open at the same time. I also routinely change transposition and the instrument name in an extracted part, and save it as the new instrument. When I open the original part, it's always fine. This is in FinMac 2005a. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] PASTING PROBLEM
On Oct 26, 2004, at 11:06 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: There is a keyboard shortcut for this: Shift, command,C. Chuck This "Copy and Filter" command will not work in FinMac 2005--it's a bug, acknowledged by tech support. I try to wait and enter all measure expressions after I've finished copying and pasting within my file--otherwise I get a real mess. And it's not just measure expressions that get pasted, but repeat text as well. On Oct 26, 2004, at 5:22 AM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: Shift click the Edit menu (on Mac) and instead of "Copy" you will see "Copy and Filter...". The following dialog should be self-explanatory. This is one of the features of Fin2k5 which easily gets overlooked. Johannes Kim Richmond wrote: Here's a problem that has cropped up on this latest version of Finale (MACFin05). I'm adding a guitar part to an existing score. Measure 60 has a guitar passage I want to copy and paste into measure 70. Measure 60 has a French horn part that has the expression "with mute" entered as a Measure-attached expression, assigned to only the French horn staff. When I paste the guitar passage from measure 60 to 70, suddenly "with mute" appears in measure 70 on EVERY staff. Any solution? And don't tell me I should never use Measure-attached expressions, only Note-attached expressions. I know that would have avoided the problem, but I've got hundreds of Measure-attached expressions in this piece. Or does someone know a simply way to change all the Measure-attached-assigned-only-to-a-single-staff expressions into Note-attached expressions? Probably not. All the best, KIM Richmond Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] new 2005 copying behavior
On Sep 7, 2004, at 1:40 PM, Peter Taylor wrote: Lon - I have no idea if this might be relevant, but several versions ago I found that converting my old template file to use in a newer version of Finale caused several weird and unexpected problems, notably one very peculiar bug concerning Percussion Maps :o). Like you, I couldn't figure out the logic of it. In the end, creating a new template from scratch using the updated version of the program was the only way to cure it. As a long shot - have you tried the same copying procedure with brand new files created from scratch with 2005? Peter I tried your suggestion, and it's been my experience through all of this that measure expressions get copied and pasted, no matter what. I've tried to filter them out, but they're still being copied, whether from files created from my old template, or from a brand-new file created from a brand-new template created from the Setup Wizard. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] new 2005 copying behavior
On Sep 7, 2004, at 8:17 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: There's a piece of information left out of Ryan's description of the new method (see below). Ryan wrote: This is correct. Finale 2005 now copies Measure-Attached Expressions when copying to the clipboard and choosing "Replace Entries". This gives you the ability to copy and paste parts to other documents and maintain the Staff List assignments. If you wish to copy music without copying Measure-Attached Expressions, hold down the Shift key, go to the Edit menu, and choose "Copy and Filter...". Uncheck "Expressions and SmartShapes" and click Ok. This will still copy Note-Attached Expressions and other items attached to the entries. Me Again: The "Copy and Filter" dialog combines entries and measure attached Smart Shapes, so hairpins need to be left behind in the document you are using as a template. That means you cannot simply highlight the part with the Mass Mover and hit "clear". You must select "Clear Entries - All," leaving behind your hairpins and hoping that their placement will match the position of the notes when the new "Filtered" entries are inserted. If someone can explain the advantages of transportable staff lists (which this new behavior is designed to allow), perhaps I'll feel better about the difficulties of using this, to me, overly fussy method. I think it will slow down personal working habits that I had developed into a pretty slick method for dealing with certain repetitive layout issues. Anyone else think this is was something "not broke" that didn't need fixing? Chuck Yeah, there's something broke alright. Let me explain: I'm currently working on some small group charts, working from my template that contains all the staves I could possibly need, but don't always use--trumpet, alto, tenor, trombone, master rhythm, bass and drums. Most charts only require tenor and master rhythm parts, which is the case for the one I'm currently working on. In the score, I created a master rhythm part that was actually the right-hand piano part (for playback purposes), which I turned into chords and slashes using Staff Styles. When I extracted the part, the slashes were unevenly spaced, because of the note spacing in each measure. I don't really understand why that should be, but that's another issue. So I redid the part, replacing the right-hand piano part with quarter rests, so the slashes would space evenly. As an experiment, I copied and pasted the new MR part back into my score, using the method described by Ryan. When I re-extracted the part, I got two each of: "Fast Swing." "quarter=180," letter B, letter E, "To Coda," and the Coda sign. I had filtered out measure expressions and repeats, but they still got duplicated, although some of the measure expressions weren't duplicated (letters A, C and D). I'm not sure why that happened, as all measure expressions were set the same way in the score: a staff list that has the expression showing up in the top staff only in the score, and in every extracted part. So it seems that there's also some inconsistency in how this new "feature" "works." I personally don't find this helpful in the least, but a real nuisance instead. Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: AW: [Finale] new copy behavior
On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:05 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Well, what exactly is the work around then?? In a copy of the score used only for part extraction, convert *all* measure expressions to note expressions before extracting parts. (Turning on "Show expressions for extracted parts" helps here.) (I didn't say it was a *good* workaround... but does anyone else have a better idea?) - Darcy In my situation, in which I'm copying and pasting music within the same file, it seems to me that the easiest workaround is to wait until all music is entered, and all copying and pasting is done, before entering any measure expressions. Of course, if a subsequent copy-paste edit is required, then I'm stuck having to delete unwanted measure expressions. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] new behavior
On Sep 5, 2004, at 11:22 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Lon, Have you tried selecting all the User Manual PDF files in the Finder, selecting "Get Info," and changing the "Open With" to Adobe Reader (/Acrobat Reader)? If your default PDF reader for these files is Preview (instead of Adobe Reader or Acrobat Reader), the help files will not open from within Finale. - Darcy Thanks, Darcy. That fixed it. Now, why didn't I think of that? You learn something new every day. Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] new behavior
and oh, by the way: I can't get the User Manual to open in FinMac 2005. And before everyone starts spamming me with "select the correct folder in the Program Options," I've already done that. This is the fifth version that I've bought (since FinMac 2000), so I've been around long enough to pretty much know how this thing is supposed to work. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] new copy behavior
On Sep 5, 2004, at 6:48 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 05 Sep 2004, at 09:42 PM, Lon Price wrote:
What about rehearsal letters that you only want on the top staff of
your score, but you want to appear in each part? In FinMac 2005,
those get pasted into every part as well. In other words, say I have
rehearsal letter "A" set up to appear on the top staff at measure 9,
and I have a two-bar phrase at letter A that I want to copy and paste
into measures 11-12, 13-14 and 15-16 in an inner staff (not the top
staff).
Choose "Copy Entry Items" instead of "Copy Everything."
And how come nobody's mentioned this before now?
Because this is the way it's supposed to work.
This is NOT working the way it's supposed to. Let me describe my
actions:
Create a measure expression ("Moderately") that is set for a staff
list, appearing only in the top staff in the score, and in each of the
extracted parts. Enter notes, articulations, chords and a note
expression (dynamic mark) in the same measure, but in a staff that
appears lower in the score.
In Mass Edit, choose "Copy Entry Items", and check chords,
articulations and note expressions in the Entry Items menu. Copy and
paste that measure into another measure anywhere in the score, and when
you extract the part, you get everything, including the measure
expression. I say that is NOT the way it's supposed to work, and it
never "worked" that way before FinMac 2005. And where in the User
Manual does it say that this is the way it's supposed to work? As far
as I can tell, there is never any mention of measure expressions being
copied, unless you choose "Copy Measure Items" and then check "Measure
Expressions" in the Measure Items menu. I think Chuck is right about
this being a bug in FinMac 2005.
Lon Price, Los Angeles
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Re: [Finale] new copy behavior
On Sep 5, 2004, at 3:50 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Chuck, Probably the best workaround is to stop using measure-attached expressions entirely, except for expressions you want to appear in *every* part. Post-2004, there's really no good reason anymore to use Staff Lists instead of note-attached expressions for staff-specific things like dynamics or instrument changes. They will go in faster with metatoools anyway (vs. Staff Lists, which were always cumbersome), and in most cases, positioning will be better. What about rehearsal letters that you only want on the top staff of your score, but you want to appear in each part? In FinMac 2005, those get pasted into every part as well. In other words, say I have rehearsal letter "A" set up to appear on the top staff at measure 9, and I have a two-bar phrase at letter A that I want to copy and paste into measures 11-12, 13-14 and 15-16 in an inner staff (not the top staff). The result gets letter A at measures 11, 13 and 15, in EVERY staff, not just the staff I pasted into. Now that's annoying. And how come nobody's mentioned this before now? I have reported this to MakeMusic, BTW. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] new copy behavior
When I perform a Mass Edit copy and paste function in FinMac 2005 I find that expressions and repeat text entries get copied and pasted along with everything else. This is new and extremely annoying behavior. An expression that is meant for only a single staff gets copied to all staves, requiring me to delete the unwanted expressions. And why should repeat text get copied at all? A repeat effects every staff, whether it shows up on every staff or not. I can't find any reference to this behavior in the "What's New" section of the User Manual. I how do I keep these annoyances from happening? ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] MIDI and 2004kMac question
On Jul 25, 2004, at 4:29 PM, Martin Banner wrote: I opened up FinMac 2k3 in classic, and had no problem inputting and playback through my synth. Then I opened up 2k4 and couldn't input or playback with my synth. Then I shut down classic, and opened up 2k4 again, this time everything worked ok. Is that just a fluke, or does classic need to be shut off before my MIDI will work properly in OS X? Martin I've also lost my MIDI connections with classic running in the background, so I quit running classic altogether. If I need to run OS9, I boot it up from another drive. I do have some old files I did in MOTU's Mosaic, and it won't run in classic anyway, so I'm forced to boot in OS9 in order to access those files. ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: No more OS9!
On Jul 25, 2004, at 10:43 AM, shirling & neueweise wrote: From: Johannes Gebauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Just out of interest: What is keeping you in OS9? time, mostly, for dealing with the switchover, learning where things have been moved, how the OS structure has changed, etc. also, i won't upgrade the system without doing massive backups, which involves transferring important files and prefs etc. to several zip discs (i don't have a burner or an external HD). jef It's a fact of life that if one is going to use a computer in his/her work, he/she is going to have to occasionally shell out the bucks to upgrade both the hardware and the software. I fought this notion for a number of years, resenting the fact that we users seem to be caught in a spending loop that never seems to end. But I finally saw the writing on the wall. There's no fighting it. When I read an excuse for not upgrading, such as the above post, it just doesn't hold water. Who in this day and age doesn't have a disk burner? Or a firewire drive? These things are cheap these days. And what's the big deal about switching to OSX? Like you, I was reluctant to make the big switch, but after MOTU released Digital Performer for OSX, and Coda released Finale 2004, I finally took the plunge, and I'm never goin' back. Please don't be scared off by all the posts about bugs in Finale 2004. I use it every day, and it has never crashed once, and I've experienced none of the bugs people are complaining about. I don't use auto-save, BTW, so maybe that's why. I do get occasional crashes in OSX, but never in Finale, or Digital Performer, for that matter. If you're new music notation specialists, why are you trying to use antiquated computer hardware and an antiquated operating system to do your work? I say get with the program and get back to work. That's what I did, albeit kicking and screaming at first. No offense, just my 2 cents Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] notating bass "two-beat" feel
I recently had a player question my notation of "two-beat" feel on a bass part for a local swing band. I had written it as quarter note-quarter rest, etc. He said that quarters would be too short and would sound corny. I guess he would have preferred half notes, but it's my understanding that there should be at least some space between the notes in a two-beat bass line, which is what I wrote. Maybe if I'd put tenuto marks over the quarter notes, since most jazz players seem to always want to play quarter notes short unless otherwise noted. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'd especially like to hear from bass players. Thanks in advance, Lon ******** Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Apple Core MIDI/Patch Names
On Apr 28, 2004, at 7:38 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello, So now that I'm switching to OSX and Finale 2004, I wonder if theres a way to get patch name documents like those that used to come with OMS? I'm guessing that the answer is no, and obviously it's no big deal when doing notation but I also do a lot of MIDI sequencing. So, if anyone has any information, I'd be grateful. My patchlists show up in FinMac 2004b, but they look like my patchlists from MOTU. I suspect that if you don't have MOTU's Digital Performer, your patchlists may not show up. I've customized one of my patchlists for use in DP, and it shows up in Finale. If it had been installed by Finale, it would not have been customized, just the factory defaults. My MOTU patchlists did not show up in FinMac 2004, BTW, so that's a good reason to upgrade to 2004b. I just looked in my library folder, under Audio> MIDI devices. There are two folders: Generic and MOTU. It's the MOTU folder that contains my patchlists. There's also a MIDI Patch Names folder under Audio, but it's empty. I'm pretty sure that no patchlists were installed by Finale. MOTU includes a utility called FreeMIDI Converter with the DP install. This utility converts your FreeMIDI configuration from OS 9 for use in OSX. I know of no utility that does the same for OMS MIDI configurations, probably because OMS has been pretty much dead in the water since Opcode went out of business. There's also a third party utility called Cherry Picker that you can use to customize your patchlists. MOTU also includes patchlists for virtually every MIDI instrument currently on the market with the install of DP. Lon Price, Los Angeles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://hometown.aol.com/txstnr/> ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
