[Finale] Unequal notes tied together
Well, an example: If you tie A# to Bb, then the notes will be on separate lines or spaces. But that would require a key change, for example B major to B flat major. Unless you use accidentals, of course. The key signature would have to be between them. So how would the tie mark be accomplished? It would have to go THROUGH the key signature change. If the A sharp is at the end of a line, then the B flat would be at the beginning of the next line. That's the only way around it, as far as I can determine. That would be very confusing to read anyway. I doubt that someone using standard music notation would do that. So if you see any examples in REAL music, please point one out. Now obviously, if you have two adjacent pitches like G and G flat, then they are unequal pitches, and therefore a tie mark would be wrong. It would be a SLUR instead. I have found instances where it WILL put a tie mark between a G and G flat. And like I said earlier, it does NOT put the accidental in front of the second pitch, even when the G flat is not in the key signature. I can try to generate some specific examples. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Tying unequal notes togetther
OK - - I've never seen unequal pitches tied together in any music of the last 50 years. If there is a key change, then the tie mark would have go THROUGH the key signature. I have never seen that in any of the last 5 decades I've been in the music biz. Finale does not provide any way to do that. A tie mark only can go across a measure line. That is when the two pitches are in adjacent measures. Likewise for Sibelius or any other notation package on the market. If there is a key change, it normally would be done after the tied notes, like the next measure. I will send you $$$ for a steak dinner to the first one that provides provides a counterexample (in REAL music) Whoever answered this apparently didn't take any music notation courses either - - - They still need to address why the playback is not consistent with the notation on the staff. Yours; Bill S. -Original Message- From: finale-requ...@shsu.edu To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Thu, Sep 30, 2010 10:00 am Subject: Finale Digest, Vol 86, Issue 28 Send Finale mailing list submissions to finale@shsu.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to finale-requ...@shsu.edu You can reach the person managing the list at finale-ow...@shsu.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Finale digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Ties unequal pitches together? (billsi...@aol.com) 2. Re: Ties unequal pitches together? (SN jef chippewa) 3. Re(2): [Finale] bart?k pizz. : line up vs. down (Leigh Daniels) 4. names in the parts (Lawrence David Eden) 5. Re: names in the parts (Eric Dannewitz) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:08:36 -0400 From: Subject: [Finale] Ties unequal pitches together? To: , Message-ID: <8cd2e1878622382-700-...@webmail-m020.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well first of all, if the two pitches are not the same, it's a SLUR, not a tie. But I've noticed that when you change the pitch of a note that IS tied, it breaks the tie - and then does not put the correct accidental on the other note. When it plays the music back it gives you two pitches, but does NOT show the correct pitches on the staff. In other words, the played pitches are not consistent with what is on the staff. When you change the pitch of a tied note, it should change the pitches of ALL notes tied to it, automatically. I'm kind of surprised that their programmers won't FIX something that's so obvious. But maybe it's because they never took any music courses? -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:24:08 +0200 From: SN jef chippewa Subject: Re: [Finale] Ties unequal pitches together? To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >Well first of all, if the two pitches are not the same, it's a SLUR, >not a tie. it would be a tie if the pitch change was to account for a key change and the sounding note was the "same" but notated differently for the context. >When you change the pitch of a tied note, it should change the >pitches of ALL notes tied to it, automatically. > >I'm kind of surprised that their programmers won't FIX something >that's so obvious. >But maybe it's because they never took any music courses? maybe it's because it ain't broken. you can use the selection tool to change the pitch of a range of notes (tied or not) in several ways. plugin change pitch to x, use numpad 6/7/8/9 to transpose diatonically second / octave or use the transposition context menu item for many more options. your proposal is an interesting one, i just don't think the tool is broken like you suggest. you would rather see it function differently. fair enough... but it ain't broked, dude. -- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:36:58 -0400 From: Leigh Daniels Subject: Re(2): [Finale] bart?k pizz. : line up vs. down To: Finale List Message-ID: <20100929193658.957709...@smtp.comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Gardner Read, Music Notation, p. 272: "Another symbol is x invented by Stockhausen, inveterate fabricator of notational devices. This sign is a slight modification of (circle-line up) or (circle-line down) created by Béla Bartók for the "snap" pizzicato in string instruments . . . " **Leigh On Wed, Sep 29, 2010, SN jef chippewa wrote: >thanks, actually it is, it indicates there was no >special symbol for it back then. since bartók >seems to have been the first to have used the >technique widely and the thing is named after him >it would seem logical to use the symbol he used >for it. i have yet to find out who in fact >invented the symbol and if there were other >versions / symbols used b
[Finale] Ties unequal pitches together?
Well first of all, if the two pitches are not the same, it's a SLUR, not a tie. But I've noticed that when you change the pitch of a note that IS tied, it breaks the tie - and then does not put the correct accidental on the other note. When it plays the music back it gives you two pitches, but does NOT show the correct pitches on the staff. In other words, the played pitches are not consistent with what is on the staff. When you change the pitch of a tied note, it should change the pitches of ALL notes tied to it, automatically. I'm kind of surprised that their programmers won't FIX something that's so obvious. But maybe it's because they never took any music courses? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] How to make chord suffix permanent?
Is there a way to set up the chord library so that ALL the chords I put in are remembered for the next song? Every time I have to start a new song, the suffixes are started over again. Also, the size of the chord characters doesn't get remembered either. Those are set in the documents menu. How do I make those set by default? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Playback engine has bugs
I've noticed when I tie across a bar line, the playback engine ignores the tie as if they are two separate notes. Was this ever fixed? Why does it allow you to tie a note to a rest? I never see this in real music performed. Also, when you change the pitch of a tied note, it does not try to change the pitch of the other notes. It leaves the tie in place in between two (or more) unlike pitches, and sounds them separately. In other software packages, you can change the pitch on ANY of the tied notes, and it automatically chages all the others. A SLUR would normally be used in place of a tie between unequal pitches. As far as I know, unequal pitches are NEVER tied together. Yours; Bill Sinclair ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] How to get rid of Garritan plug-in?
I would like to uncouple the Garritan plug-in from a particular song, but not from the other songs I've arranged. Trying to select the instrument list does not work. Any ideas? Thanks; Bill Sinclair ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] More about Hyperscribe latency problem
Hello again; I looked at the Finale 2006 documentation, particularly at Chapter 17. Latency is never addressed. I think they're refusing to admit that there is a problem. CPU processing time should not be relevant here, since I have a 3.2 GHZ Pentium. If I had a slower CPU, the latency would become even longer. One would think they should provide a way to correct for that. For instance they could play the click a certain number of milliseconds early, or they could store the MIDI events with an earlier time stamp. I didn't see a way to offset the notes in the quantization menu. Quantizing it does NOT provide a solution, since that will distort the intended result in many cases. One could have a calibration step to determine what the latency is before recording actual note events, and compensate accordingly. I'm wondering why they don't TEST their software more thoroughly before exposing us to these problems. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Hyperscribe - - annoying latency
Dear Finale; I was wondering how I can keep Hyperscribe from putting an annoying latency into the recording off a keyboard. Even when I record quarter notes, it puts a sixteenth note before each one. In other words, all the note events are moved over exactly 1/4 of a beat too late. So far, I can't figure out how to prevent this latency. Is there a way to easily correct the mistakes it put in after it's been recorded? Or do I have to hand edit every single measure? In other words, how do I move the notes over 1/4 beat to the left in one mass edit operation? Thanks; WSS ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: What are the quarter notes at the top for?
Yes, I have looked at the documentation. I have Finale 2006. Those weren't in previous versions that I had. But I don't understand what those quarter notes at the top of the form are supposed to do for me. They correspond to the beats in the measure, obviously. Or you can refer me to the proper place where I can look it up. So far, I haven't found it. Pardon my ignorance - Thanks; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Problems with Garritan plug-in
Hello Finale (2006 B); I have a project where I would like to use Garritan instruments. However, they don't give you ALL the instruments you need for a typical big band setup. For example, electric guitar, or drum kit. When I select a non-Garritan instrument for a staff, it won't sound it when I play it back. I would like to hear the ENTIRE orchestra, not just the Garritan instruments. Is there a way to MIX the two in one score, and hear them ALL played? Thanks; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] slurs and ties
The confusion comes here when two adjacent notes are connected together by something that looks like a tie mark. Notationally, how would you tell the difference? The problem in Finale is that on the "simple entry" you can turn on the "tie" option for a notehead and it will cheerfully connect them even when it makes no sense, i.e. two different pitches. I would not use "smart shapes" on two adjacent notes. A slur makes sense for violin parts or trombone parrts, but not on piano parts. I have trouble with smart shapes when the parts are extracted. They have to be "fixed" on the extracted parts. what makes it even worse is: it will hide the accidentals on the second pitch, making the playback inconsistent with the notation. So when you accidentally change the pitch of the second note, you won't even get any visual feedback. At least it should WARN you when you tying together two different pitches. If they are the SAME pitch, then repitching one should change the other automatically. That would save time, at least, and prevent these errors. Incidentally, I also found that the "repitcher" collapses the entire chord when you use it on a chord, inconsistent behavior with other options in the "simple" entry. I have Finale 2004, so maybe they fixed that later. Yours; Bill Sinclair Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale support staff won't recognize obvious bug.
I had a situation where I had two tied notes on the same line or space, but they had different pitches, due to different accidentals. For example, F natural tied to F#, or E flat tied to E natural, which would be slurs, not tied notes. Finale sometimes HIDES the second accidental in that case. Obviously this leads to a notation error. When I pointed this out, I was told, "this is normal behavior." Maybe they should distinguish between a slur and a tie. Right now the software treats them as the same. But you certainly DON'T want it to hide the second accidental if they are different pitches. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Weird behavior with extracted parts (?)
If I have some horn parts on separate staffs, and I have painstakingly placed CODAS, Dal Segnos, and expressions on the staffs exactly where I want them, why does it put them in completely wrong places in the extracted parts? After I have extracted the parts, I have to do a lengthy re-edit of them to put the repeat items and expressions BACK to where they should go. It usually puts those in the MIDDLE of the staff, which would never occur in a practical score. It also does weird stuff with articulation marks and smart shapes, such that those also have to be re-edited. Sometimes the articulations are so far away from the original note, I can't figure out where it went to start with. Is there a way to avoid that? You would think everything is RELATIVE to the staff. Obviously, you could have situations where the transposed NOTES might clash. But there are many cases where that does not occur, and it still does weird stuff. Thanks; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Won't put CODA in middle staff - bug(?)
Hello; I am working on a big band arrangement, with three staffs in the concert sketch. I was trying to put CODAs and Dal Segnos into a couple of measures. However, it puts them on the top and bottom staffs, but ignores the middle staff. It puts the pos'n handle there, but no CODA sign. When I extract the parts, the CODA is not present there either. Obviously, I would have to insert it manually in the extracted part. One of those stupid annoying little things that gives Coda Music a bad rep. Is there a way around this problem? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Making a text line transmit to all parts (?)
Dear Finale; I have a line of text that I want to appear on all the parts when I extract them. For example "Take CODA after 2nd ending." or "Guitar solo - 16 bars" How do I do that? Is the _expression_ tool the only way? Thanks; Bill Sinclair ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] How to force positiong of articulations?
Hello Finale; I have found that when using the "explode music" feature, even though the articulations are in the right place BEFORE the music is exploded, they come out funny in the parts AFTER the chords are exploded. I was wondering if there is a way for ALL articulations of a certain type to be forced either ABOVE the staff or below the staff, rather than hand editiong them, which can be really tedious. The way it comes out now, they are mixed above and below. Maybe it has to do with positioning of the note heads relative to the staff, i.e. stem up or sten down. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but the documentation has not yielded any tricks to me as yet.. Thanks; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] How do I combine music pieces?
Hello Finale - I am having trouble combining three pieces of music (MUS files) into one continuous piece of music. I guess it's a "cut and paste," or "copy and append." operation. But I can't seeem to make it work for 3 separate files. How do I put them together into one score? No problem using MASS EDIT within one score. Assuming there is a way to do this with three separate MUS files, do the staffs all have to match up re type and ordering? Thanks; Bill S ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Bad accidentals - how to batch fix?
Hello Finale; I tried forcing accidentals with the 'courtesy accidentals' plugin. It not only changed the pitch when it shouldn;t have, it used the wrong kind (i.e. F# rather than Gb). Is there a way to fix those over a certain range of measures without painstakingly having to edit the *&^%#$%& things one at a time? Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Need HELP with assignment
Hello finale; MY instructor at CSU says he does not want to see meter markings or measure lines on the assignment. How do I suppress those? Also, I would like it to force all accidentals even when they've appeared before on the staff.Is there a way to do that? Thanks Mucho; Bill ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Preventing clash of accidentals?
Hi Finale; I have found that when I have a key signature involving many sharps or flats (e.g. G flat), those can clash with accidentals on the first note or chord of the measure, making it very hard to read. Is the a way to FORCE a little more space so that the clash could be avoided? Say, an extra 1/8 of an inch before it writes the first note head after the KS? I would like this to default for ALL measures with a key signature, so I don't need to do extensive hand edits all thru the piece. Thanks; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Need help with split stems on one staff
Hello Finale; I have been asked to do a choral piece, where the voices are grouped two in the treble staff, and two in the bass staff. The two upper voices must have stems pointing in the opposite directions, regardless of their position on the staff. They also don't have the same rhythmic pattern. Example: The soprano voice is all eighth notes, while the alto voice is all quarter notes. Soprano is all stems up, while alto is always stems down. The same conditions hold for the two voices in the bass staff. The tenor voice must be all stems up, the bass all stems down.. Anyone know any magic tricks that will help me? Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Confusion re staff "systems"
Hi Finale gurus; I'm trying to understand better how to manipulate staff systems, or line grouping of measures. Suppose I encounter a situation where 4 measures (let's say 33-36) are on a line that is too crowded. I see that I can reduce crowding by forcing measure 36 to be on a line with the ones following it (Let's say it has a whole bunch of 16th notes), and force 33-35 to be on a line by themselves. How do I accomplish that? Of course I realize that "fit music" will undo what I've done. Ideally, I should be able to tell Finale how to group the measures "intelligently" such that the real busy ones occur fewer on a line, and the sparse ones occur more to a line. Is a system the same as a line? How do I unlock a system? When I click on the little padlock, nothing happens. Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Need invisible chord anchors
When generating a lead sheet, it is often desirable to have chords that sequence under a fixed melody note. For example, you might have an 8 beat whole note where a sequence of chords are changing under it. This is not in keeping with the way finale anchors chords, since it the chord anchor must be on a tied note, note or rest. I have not seen any way to anchor a chord to a note that's not in the staff. One can generate an artificial chord anchor by breaking a long note into tied notes, but that makes it awkward to read the music, and it's not good notation practice. I tried hanging chords onto alternate layers, but that means sticking notes into the score that don't belong, and I have not figured out how to suppress the printing out of the alternate layers. That really confuses things. Has anyone figured out a way around this? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Need INVISIBLE chord anchors
When generating a lead sheet, it is often desirable to have chords that sequence under a fixed melody note. For example, you might have an 8 beat whole note where a sequence of chords are changing under it. This is not in keeping with the way finale anchors chords, since it the chord anchor must be on a tied note, note or rest. I have not seen any way to anchor a chord to a note that's not in the staff. One can generate an artificial chord anchor by breaking a long note into tied notes, but that makes it awkward to read the music, and it's not good notation practice. I tried hanging chords onto alternate layers, but that means sticking notes into the score that don't belong, and I have not figured out how to suppress the printing out of the alternate layers. That really confuses things. Has anyone figured out a way around this? Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Need compatible xfer MAC ==> PC
I paid someone to do some work for me. He has a MAC with Finale 2001, and I have Finale 2004 on my PC with AOL as my ISP and E-mail provider. I was hoping he could send me the finished project, but so far the only thing I can get on-line from him is the MIDI file he posted on his Web site. If he sends it to me via E-mail as an attached file, it gets scrambled, and likewise for the MUS file he created. Is there some way I can get the work intact? Or is it pretty hopeless? Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: 13th chords
A number of people have stated that the 13th, for example a C 13th should have an F# in, it, i.e. the sharp 11th. You could of course use that, but I sometimes prefer to use the "F" (natural 11th) and omit the 3rd to avoid the minor ninth clash. The notation though is awkward. I guess you could say "C 11th" for example if the melody were on "F" Obviously you can't use a sharp 11th in that situation. Whether or not you use a "sus" really is mostly dictated by the melody. The "sus" chords merely avoid a clash when the melody falls on the 11th. It still wants to resolve, just like a regular dom. 7th chord would. Sometimes it's better to use a compound chord, like Gm9/C, which is more explicit. Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Chord voicing rant
I've noticed that when you enable playback of chords that are input on the score, some of the voicings being used are very weak, and others are just plain wrong, i.e.have wrong notes. I would like to replace the bad voicings wherever needed. There should be a way to input those in a simple manner. Ideally, one would just like to play the chord from a MIDI keyboard for a given extension, and it would remember that particular voicing from then onward. But we also need a more musician friendly way to input the chord on a staff. The method used now is extremely awkward - it looks like it's designed for programmers, not musicians. The closed voicing positions that are now mostly used in the library are hardly ever used in practice. Actually, the choice of voicing that is sounded should depend a certain extent upon where the upper note is placed, since some voicings sound muddy in the lower register. Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Finale Digest, Vol 21, Issue 30
Actually, a C13 chord is not at all related to a C6 chord. A C13 implies it's from the Dominant 7th family, but has extensions. The notes would be C-E-G-Bb-D-F and finally A. Of course there are numerous ways to voice these chords, and that depends upon what instrument, i.e is it guitar or piano? Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] How to apply text to various staffs?
Dear finale; If I have some kind of text descriptor that needs to go on ALL the extracted parts, how do I tell the text tool to do that? Or should I not use that tool? What if I want the text to only appear on SOME parts, but not all instruments? Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Consistecy with chord symbol fonts
Hello Finale; I am familiar with how one changes the fonts of chord symbols to be larger and more readable. But I don't understand why some chord suffixes revert back to the eensy-teensy font sizes that existed before I used the fonts option. I would like to see ALL the chord symbols come out at the same readable size (say 16 pico) when I type them in using the "type into score," and have it remember that for all future projects. How does one accomplish that? BTW, how does one prevent the chord symbols from running together when there are several in a measure, i.e. one per quarter note. The note spacing algorithm does not take chord spacing into account as far as I can determine, for the chords attached to the notes. Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Chord symbols clash with song title
I have found in many cases that the song title at the top of pages 2,3,etc. clashes with chord symbols connected to the top staff "system." Sometimes I can move the chord symbols over, but sometimes this is not practical. It still looks too crowded anyway. How can I force the top system to be down far enough so that there is no clash between it and the song title at the top of the page? Manually moving it down using the "handles" has no effect. Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Chord symbols with jazz font
Using the maestro font, I use the lower case "B" for the root if it has a flat, for example AbMaj7. However, this does not work with a jazz font. The lower case "B" does not look like a flat symbol. How do I get around this? Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Enharmonic chord roots
When I am in the key of "A", I sometimes want to say Db major 7, Eb7, or Ab9. The software sometimes stupidly forces the chord roots to be the sharp notes instead of the flat notes, like it will force it C# instead of D flat, or G# instead of A flat. I do not want to transpose that portion of the song - I want to leave everything in the key of "A". How can I force it to spell the chord roots the way I want? Yours; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
