[Finale] End of Make Music?
One of the posters at the MM Forum said he was told by a Tech at MM that 2110a is due out by Tuesday ( the 20th). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] End of Make Music?
Phone's out and web site down? Must be out of business. Oh, 2010a out today. The Rumor Mill at the MM Forum is a little ahead of this one! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Am 16.10.2009 um 19:08 schrieb Jim Dukey: 2110a is due out by Tuesday ( the 20th). Isn't that a bit early? ;-) Gerhard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Torges Gerhard wrote: Am 16.10.2009 um 19:08 schrieb Jim Dukey: 2110a is due out by Tuesday ( the 20th). Isn't that a bit early? ;-) Gerhard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale he didn't say *which* Tuesday the 20th. ;-) -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Am 17.10.2009 um 00:07 schrieb dhbailey: he didn't say *which* Tuesday the 20th. ;-) Here's our choice: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 Tuesday, April 20, 2010 Tuesday, July 20, 2010 Tuesday, September 20, 2011 Tuesday, December 20, 2011 Tuesday, March 20, 2012 Tuesday, November 20, 2012 Tuesday, August 20, 2013 Tuesday, May 20, 2014 Tuesday, January 20, 2015 Tuesday, October 20, 2015 Tuesday, September 20, 2016 Tuesday, December 20, 2016 Tuesday, June 20, 2017 Tuesday, February 20, 2018 Tuesday, March 20, 2018 Tuesday, November 20, 2018 Tuesday, August 20, 2019 Tuesday, October 20, 2020 Tuesday, April 20, 2021 Tuesday, July 20, 2021 Tuesday, September 20, 2022 Tuesday, December 20, 2022 Tuesday, June 20, 2023 Tuesday, February 20, 2024 Tuesday, August 20, 2024 Tuesday, May 20, 2025 Tuesday, January 20, 2026 Tuesday, October 20, 2026 Tuesday, April 20, 2027 Tuesday, July 20, 2027 Tuesday, June 20, 2028 Tuesday, February 20, 2029 Tuesday, March 20, 2029 Tuesday, November 20, 2029 Tuesday, August 20, 2030 Tuesday, May 20, 2031 Tuesday, January 20, 2032 Tuesday, April 20, 2032 Tuesday, July 20, 2032 Tuesday, September 20, 2033 Tuesday, December 20, 2033 Tuesday, June 20, 2034 Tuesday, February 20, 2035 Tuesday, March 20, 2035 Tuesday, November 20, 2035 Tuesday, May 20, 2036 Tuesday, January 20, 2037 Tuesday, October 20, 2037 Tuesday, April 20, 2038 Tuesday, July 20, 2038 Tuesday, September 20, 2039 Tuesday, December 20, 2039 Tuesday, March 20, 2040 Tuesday, November 20, 2040 Tuesday, August 20, 2041 Tuesday, May 20, 2042 Tuesday, January 20, 2043 Tuesday, October 20, 2043 Tuesday, September 20, 2044 Tuesday, December 20, 2044 Tuesday, June 20, 2045 Tuesday, February 20, 2046 Tuesday, March 20, 2046 Tuesday, November 20, 2046 Tuesday, August 20, 2047 Tuesday, October 20, 2048 Tuesday, April 20, 2049 Tuesday, July 20, 2049 Tuesday, September 20, 2050 Tuesday, December 20, 2050 Tuesday, June 20, 2051 Tuesday, February 20, 2052 Tuesday, August 20, 2052 Tuesday, May 20, 2053 Tuesday, January 20, 2054 Tuesday, October 20, 2054 Tuesday, April 20, 2055 Tuesday, July 20, 2055 Tuesday, June 20, 2056 Tuesday, February 20, 2057 Tuesday, March 20, 2057 Tuesday, November 20, 2057 Tuesday, August 20, 2058 Tuesday, May 20, 2059 Tuesday, January 20, 2060 Tuesday, April 20, 2060 Tuesday, July 20, 2060 Tuesday, September 20, 2061 Tuesday, December 20, 2061 Tuesday, June 20, 2062 Tuesday, February 20, 2063 Tuesday, March 20, 2063 Tuesday, November 20, 2063 Tuesday, May 20, 2064 Tuesday, January 20, 2065 Tuesday, October 20, 2065 Tuesday, April 20, 2066 Tuesday, July 20, 2066 Tuesday, September 20, 2067 Tuesday, December 20, 2067 Tuesday, March 20, 2068 Tuesday, November 20, 2068 Tuesday, August 20, 2069 Tuesday, May 20, 2070 Tuesday, January 20, 2071 Tuesday, October 20, 2071 Tuesday, September 20, 2072 Tuesday, December 20, 2072 Tuesday, June 20, 2073 Tuesday, February 20, 2074 Tuesday, March 20, 2074 Tuesday, November 20, 2074 Tuesday, August 20, 2075 Tuesday, October 20, 2076 Tuesday, April 20, 2077 Tuesday, July 20, 2077 Tuesday, September 20, 2078 Tuesday, December 20, 2078 Tuesday, June 20, 2079 Tuesday, February 20, 2080 Tuesday, August 20, 2080 Tuesday, May 20, 2081 Tuesday, January 20, 2082 Tuesday, October 20, 2082 Tuesday, April 20, 2083 Tuesday, July 20, 2083 Tuesday, June 20, 2084 Tuesday, February 20, 2085 Tuesday, March 20, 2085 Tuesday, November 20, 2085 Tuesday, August 20, 2086 Tuesday, May 20, 2087 Tuesday, January 20, 2088 Tuesday, April 20, 2088 Tuesday, July 20, 2088 Tuesday, September 20, 2089 Tuesday, December 20, 2089 Tuesday, June 20, 2090 Tuesday, February 20, 2091 Tuesday, March 20, 2091 Tuesday, November 20, 2091 Tuesday, May 20, 2092 Tuesday, January 20, 2093 Tuesday, October 20, 2093 Tuesday, April 20, 2094 Tuesday, July 20, 2094 Tuesday, September 20, 2095 Tuesday, December 20, 2095 Tuesday, March 20, 2096 Tuesday, November 20, 2096 Tuesday, August 20, 2097 Tuesday, May 20, 2098 Tuesday, January 20, 2099 Tuesday, October 20, 2099 Tuesday, April 20, 2100 Tuesday, July 20, 2100 Tuesday, September 20, 2101 Tuesday, December 20, 2101 Tuesday, June 20, 2102 Tuesday, February 20, 2103 Tuesday, March 20, 2103 Tuesday, November 20, 2103 Tuesday, May 20, 2104 Tuesday, January 20, 2105 Tuesday, October 20, 2105 Tuesday, April 20, 2106 Tuesday, July 20, 2106 Tuesday, September 20, 2107 Tuesday, December 20, 2107 Tuesday, March 20, 2108 Tuesday, November 20, 2108 Tuesday, August 20, 2109 Tuesday, May 20, 2110 ;-) Gerhard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Perhaps I am too new on this list. Only two years now. So excuse me if this is your view. But I think I can see a lot of criticism towards Finale and MakeMusic and since I am not a shareholder of MakeMusic (just a simple customer paying a lot of money!) I don't react too badly on this. Citicism might be good and even developing if it is not just simple grumble. Sibelius is probably also fine and Finale and MakeMusic might be as bad as many of you say. But...isn't this forum ment to exchange great "technical" knowledge regarding FINALE when having problems or trying to do things that are not obviously documented or a bit...eh...uncommon? Or is it a general forum that also should give room to express frustration and anger with Finale, MakeMusic and the world and it's people as an entity...in more general terms? Just a simple question, /D > Torges Gerhard wrote: >> Am 16.10.2009 um 19:08 schrieb Jim Dukey: >> >>> 2110a is due out by Tuesday ( the 20th). >> >> Isn't that a bit early? ;-) >> >> >> Gerhard >> ___ >> Finale mailing list >> Finale@shsu.edu >> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >> > > > he didn't say *which* Tuesday the 20th. ;-) > > -- > David H. Bailey > dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Ask a technical question and there will be no shortage of people rushing to help you. During quiet periods when no-one is asking questions, people chat (and in doing so, share information that may not arise from a question). Cheers, Lawrence 2009/10/16 Dan Tillberg > > But...isn't this forum ment to exchange great "technical" knowledge > regarding FINALE when having problems or trying to do things that are not > obviously documented or a bit...eh...uncommon? > > Or is it a general forum that also should give room to express frustration > and anger with Finale, MakeMusic and the world and it's people as an > entity...in more general terms? > -- > Lawrenceyates.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Dan, It was just a joke. Jim Dukey mistyped that Tuesday the version 2110a is due. That's a hundred versions from now, so yes, this Tuesday would be a bit early... Christopher (kinda ruins it when you have to explain it...) On Fri Oct 16, at FridayOct 16 5:13 PM, Dan Tillberg wrote: Perhaps I am too new on this list. Only two years now. So excuse me if this is your view. But I think I can see a lot of criticism towards Finale and MakeMusic and since I am not a shareholder of MakeMusic (just a simple customer paying a lot of money!) I don't react too badly on this. Citicism might be good and even developing if it is not just simple grumble. Sibelius is probably also fine and Finale and MakeMusic might be as bad as many of you say. But...isn't this forum ment to exchange great "technical" knowledge regarding FINALE when having problems or trying to do things that are not obviously documented or a bit...eh...uncommon? Or is it a general forum that also should give room to express frustration and anger with Finale, MakeMusic and the world and it's people as an entity...in more general terms? Just a simple question, /D Torges Gerhard wrote: Am 16.10.2009 um 19:08 schrieb Jim Dukey: 2110a is due out by Tuesday ( the 20th). Isn't that a bit early? ;-) Gerhard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale he didn't say *which* Tuesday the 20th. ;-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Well, in my experience, the list has fulfilled all of those needs. While the dialectic is sometimes uncivil, and sometimes just amusing, I have received patient, kind, responses to my requests for info for years. I consider it most valuable, and enjoy belonging to a rather "freewheeling" atmosphere ... too many lists are so rigidly governed that they are a turnoff to me. Viva le list ... Dean On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:13 PM, Dan Tillberg wrote: Perhaps I am too new on this list. Only two years now. So excuse me if this is your view. But I think I can see a lot of criticism towards Finale and MakeMusic and since I am not a shareholder of MakeMusic (just a simple customer paying a lot of money!) I don't react too badly on this. Citicism might be good and even developing if it is not just simple grumble. Sibelius is probably also fine and Finale and MakeMusic might be as bad as many of you say. But...isn't this forum ment to exchange great "technical" knowledge regarding FINALE when having problems or trying to do things that are not obviously documented or a bit...eh...uncommon? Or is it a general forum that also should give room to express frustration and anger with Finale, MakeMusic and the world and it's people as an entity...in more general terms? Just a simple question, /D Torges Gerhard wrote: Am 16.10.2009 um 19:08 schrieb Jim Dukey: 2110a is due out by Tuesday ( the 20th). Isn't that a bit early? ;-) Gerhard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale he didn't say *which* Tuesday the 20th. ;-) -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Canto ergo sum And, I'd rather be composing than decomposing Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
On Oct 16, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Dan, It was just a joke. Jim Dukey mistyped that Tuesday the version 2110a is due. That's a hundred versions from now, so yes, this Tuesday would be a bit early... Christopher (kinda ruins it when you have to explain it...) I wish someone would tell that to Jay Leno. Chuck On Fri Oct 16, at FridayOct 16 5:13 PM, Dan Tillberg wrote: Perhaps I am too new on this list. Only two years now. So excuse me if this is your view. But I think I can see a lot of criticism towards Finale and MakeMusic and since I am not a shareholder of MakeMusic (just a simple customer paying a lot of money!) I don't react too badly on this. Citicism might be good and even developing if it is not just simple grumble. Sibelius is probably also fine and Finale and MakeMusic might be as bad as many of you say. But...isn't this forum ment to exchange great "technical" knowledge regarding FINALE when having problems or trying to do things that are not obviously documented or a bit...eh...uncommon? Or is it a general forum that also should give room to express frustration and anger with Finale, MakeMusic and the world and it's people as an entity...in more general terms? Just a simple question, /D Torges Gerhard wrote: Am 16.10.2009 um 19:08 schrieb Jim Dukey: 2110a is due out by Tuesday ( the 20th). Isn't that a bit early? ;-) Gerhard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale he didn't say *which* Tuesday the 20th. ;-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Dan Tillberg wrote: Perhaps I am too new on this list. Only two years now. So excuse me if this is your view. But I think I can see a lot of criticism towards Finale and MakeMusic and since I am not a shareholder of MakeMusic (just a simple customer paying a lot of money!) I don't react too badly on this. Citicism might be good and even developing if it is not just simple grumble. Sibelius is probably also fine and Finale and MakeMusic might be as bad as many of you say. But...isn't this forum ment to exchange great "technical" knowledge regarding FINALE when having problems or trying to do things that are not obviously documented or a bit...eh...uncommon? Or is it a general forum that also should give room to express frustration and anger with Finale, MakeMusic and the world and it's people as an entity...in more general terms? It's a discussion group for matters relating to Finale and thus to MakeMusic. If you want to gain technical knowledge about Finale, ask a question about some aspect of the program about which you wish to learn more. If nobody asks a finale-specific question or raises a finale-specific issue then as most groups of humans will do, the conversation will stray onto other topics. Regarding the postings about the supposedly upcoming update to Fin2010, the long-term users of this program have grown very frustrated with the fact that MakeMusic releases known buggy versions of the program with the "promise" to repair the most egregious bugs in an interim patch, which comes out anywhere from 2 to 8 months after the release. In effect, we end-users have become the final beta-testers, for which privilege we pay full retail upgrade prices. MakeMusic waits a bit to see which of the known bugs raise the largest outrage and complaints and then it fixes those and chooses to let the rest of the known bugs lie until it can get around to them. Some bugs have remained for many versions since not many people complain. That still doesn't lessen the major impact of those bugs on the people who encounter them, it just is a gambling game which MakeMusic plays in an attempt to reduce development costs while retaining the largest customer base it can. And we've become bitter over the years as MakeMusic has become entrenched in this "annual upgrade to a new buggy version which will be slightly repaired in the interim update patch" business model, all the while Sibelius is on more of a 2-year "let's get it as correct as we possibly can before releasing the new version" business model. The tone of the two main on-line discussion groups for these two program is vastly different in regards to complaints about new versions and which bugs have been chosen to be fixed or not. But the members of this group remain dedicated to Finale and I think I speak for all the members when I say that we will be very happy to discuss technical issues related to Finale when anybody raises them. So if you have a question, ask away! :-) -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Yep I can understand this frustration and I am not too irritated with all the criticism I see from time to time. Perhaps a little surprised how many people on this list who seem to prefer Sibelius instead... But I agree that a list like this should give room for other issues than strict technical questions. I admit that I enjoy some of the more amusing and sometimes sarcastic messages... > > So if you have a question, ask away! :-) > Come to think of it, and in the area of bugs, actually I do. I have seen a problem both in Fin 2007 and now in Fin 2010 that I haven't seen mentioned on this list and I haven't asked the question myself. In fact, I have talked with some people and noone has acknowledged to have seen the problem. Perhaps there is something I don't understand... It is simply regarding disappearing accidentals. It happens (rarely) that a specific note is not shown with any accidental although it is there: it plays correctly, and when changing the note with +/- to lower or raise the note it really happens soundwise and again plays correctly but no accidental is shown at all. There is no difference between the score and the part - if the accidental disappears in the score is also gone in the part. The problem is minor (provided that you discover it before distributing the result!), it does not happen often and is simply solved by erasing a note and putting it back again. So therefore I haven't taken the time to ask about it. But now since you provoce me... ;-) Anyone having seen this? Cheers /D ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Actually, I've had this happen a couple of times. I have no clue why. My work around has been to use the accidental plugin to fix it. Though I can't remember the last time it happened --- send out and aboot on my iPhone --- On Oct 17, 2009, at 2:38 AM, Dan Tillberg wrote: Yep I can understand this frustration and I am not too irritated with all the criticism I see from time to time. Perhaps a little surprised how many people on this list who seem to prefer Sibelius instead... But I agree that a list like this should give room for other issues than strict technical questions. I admit that I enjoy some of the more amusing and sometimes sarcastic messages... So if you have a question, ask away! :-) Come to think of it, and in the area of bugs, actually I do. I have seen a problem both in Fin 2007 and now in Fin 2010 that I haven't seen mentioned on this list and I haven't asked the question myself. In fact, I have talked with some people and noone has acknowledged to have seen the problem. Perhaps there is something I don't understand... It is simply regarding disappearing accidentals. It happens (rarely) that a specific note is not shown with any accidental although it is there: it plays correctly, and when changing the note with +/- to lower or raise the note it really happens soundwise and again plays correctly but no accidental is shown at all. There is no difference between the score and the part - if the accidental disappears in the score is also gone in the part. The problem is minor (provided that you discover it before distributing the result!), it does not happen often and is simply solved by erasing a note and putting it back again. So therefore I haven't taken the time to ask about it. But now since you provoce me... ;-) Anyone having seen this? Cheers /D ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
Dan Tillberg wrote It is simply regarding disappearing accidentals. It happens (rarely) that a specific note is not shown with any accidental although it is there: it plays correctly, and when changing the note with +/- to lower or raise the note it really happens soundwise and again plays correctly but no accidental is shown at all. There is no difference between the score and the part - if the accidental disappears in the score is also gone in the part. The problem is minor (provided that you discover it before distributing the result!), it does not happen often and is simply solved by erasing a note and putting it back again. So therefore I haven't taken the time to ask about it. If I recall correctly, I had a similar experience with an earlier version than 2007, perhaps 2002 or 2003, and finally determined that it was an unintended consequence of using the "9" key in speedy entry to hide an accidental. The forced display (or hiding) of an accidental might persist, even though the note were moved to another pitch, although the forced display was canceled if the note was deleted and re-entered. I never experienced the phenomenon in a later version, and since I'm at the moment away from my engraving computer, I don't have the means to check to see if my memory is accurate. And it probably bears noting that while in many instance Finale makes it possible to achieve the same result in different ways, it might also be possible to have the same apparent "bug" from different ways, too. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
On Oct 17, 2009, at 5:38 AM, Dan Tillberg wrote: It happens (rarely) that a specific note is not shown with any accidental although it is there: it plays correctly, and when changing the note with +/- to lower or raise the note it really happens soundwise and again plays correctly but no accidental is shown at all. This is a longstanding bug when using option-equals to create a tie to a previous note. It properly hides any notated accidental that the tied note may have, but it also hides all other accidentals that may appear in the chord containing the tied note. The solution is either to use the regular tie command (from the starting note rather than the ending one), or to go back and hit the asterisk key (not the 9 as someone else suggested) to force the improperly hidden accidental to reappear. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
On 17 Oct 2009 at 6:44, dhbailey wrote: > In effect, > we end-users have become the final beta-testers, for which > privilege we pay full retail upgrade prices. Only those who choose to buy the initial release end up as de facto beta testers. Others wait to buy a new version until after the patch is released. > MakeMusic > waits a bit to see which of the known bugs raise the largest > outrage and complaints and then it fixes those and chooses > to let the rest of the known bugs lie until it can get > around to them. You do not know this to be the case. Stating it as fact is really a dishonest thing to do. And you probably don't even believe that this is the case. Software is complicated and fixing bugs is difficult and fraught with all sorts of risks and trade-offs. I've tried to explain this any time the issue comes up. Unless you the people at MM are crooks (which I don't think you believe), they are just doing the best they can with limited resources. The only software that lacks bugs is software that hasn't been released. Shipping is more important than stamping out 100% of known bugs. And no software company ships bug-free code. The only difference between various companies is what level and what quantity of bugs they tolerate in their shipping product. Because Finale's developers are yoked to the treadmill of yearly releases, they have to tolerate more bugs than if they had a more leisurely schedule, since otherwise they'd run out of revenues to pay the employees. I wish they could figure out a way to get off that treadmill, but I just don't see how it's possible for them to do it. Apple can afford to use an entire development cycle for bug fixes and performance improvements in their flagship OS because they have plenty of other revenue streams as larger or larger than what they get from sales of OS X -- they can afford to lose the revenue on the reduced-price Snow Leopard because they have plenty of other cash coming in. MM doesn't have but the one other major revenue stream, and I don't think it's as large as the Finale revenue stream. Sibelius may have shown the way on this when they were acquired by Avid -- it puts the Sibelius development within a larger company with other significant revenue streams that can subsidize major investments in Sibelius should a maintenance release (like Snow Leopard) become necessary (though Sibelius has already done a better job on this with releases ever 2 or 3 years -- they never got on the yearly-release treadmill, so they don't have to get off it). To me, the only solution for MM is to be acquired by a larger company that is willing to invest in Finale's long-term development. But I haven't a clue what companies might want to take on that investment given the big picture with Sibelius. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
On 17 Oct 2009 at 8:21, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: > Dan Tillberg wrote > > > It is simply regarding disappearing accidentals. It happens (rarely) that > > a specific note is not shown with any accidental although it is there: it > > plays correctly, and when changing the note with +/- to lower or raise the > > note it really happens soundwise and again plays correctly but no > > accidental is shown at all. There is no difference between the score and > > the part - if the accidental disappears in the score is also gone in the > > part. > > > > The problem is minor (provided that you discover it before distributing > > the result!), it does not happen often and is simply solved by erasing a > > note and putting it back again. So therefore I haven't taken the time to > > ask about it. > > If I recall correctly, I had a similar experience with an earlier > version than 2007, perhaps 2002 or 2003, and finally determined that it > was an unintended consequence of using the "9" key in speedy entry to > hide an accidental. Don't you mean "*" to show/hide the accidental? The 9 key flips the enharmonics, which is not going to hide an accidental (it will probably make it worse!). > The forced display (or hiding) of an accidental > might persist, even though the note were moved to another pitch, > although the forced display was canceled if the note was deleted and > re-entered. I never experienced the phenomenon in a later version, and > since I'm at the moment away from my engraving computer, I don't have > the means to check to see if my memory is accurate. I've occasionally had it happen, but * always corrects it -- but, of course, I have to notice it to fix it. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
David W. Fenton quoted my comment,: If I recall correctly, I had a similar experience with an earlier version than 2007, perhaps 2002 or 2003, and finally determined that it was an unintended consequence of using the "9" key in speedy entry to hide an accidental. and replied Don't you mean "*" to show/hide the accidental? The 9 key flips the enharmonics, which is not going to hide an accidental (it will probably make it worse!). to which I must confess a temporary parity error in the biological memory. Of course, I meant "*". And I should also note, that I neglected to consider that the OP might be using the MAC version. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
David W. Fenton wrote: On 17 Oct 2009 at 6:44, dhbailey wrote: In effect, we end-users have become the final beta-testers, for which privilege we pay full retail upgrade prices. Only those who choose to buy the initial release end up as de facto beta testers. Others wait to buy a new version until after the patch is released. And then they become beta-testers for the remaining bugs which might get fixed in the next release. And they still pay for the privilege. All software users fall into that category. It's just that many software manufacturers will continue to release bug fixes for older versions while MakeMusic chooses not to. MakeMusic waits a bit to see which of the known bugs raise the largest outrage and complaints and then it fixes those and chooses to let the rest of the known bugs lie until it can get around to them. You do not know this to be the case. Stating it as fact is really a dishonest thing to do. And you probably don't even believe that this is the case. Yes, I do believe it to be the case. Tech support personnel have told me it is the case, although in a general "this is how we triage bug reports" manner and not specifically related to how they decide which bugs from the initial release of a new version will be fixed in the update patch. Can you prove that what I said isn't true? MakeMusic itself has said through its tech support replies that it compiles lists of reported bugs and then decides on which ones to fix based on several factors, among them being the number of complaints. That's a fact. Other factors which enter into the decision, as reported by tech support people, are the difficulty or ease of making the fix, along with what other new bugs such a fix might create. But that has been reported both to me by tech support people when I have asked when a fix might be expected for a bug I was complaining about. Software is complicated and fixing bugs is difficult and fraught with all sorts of risks and trade-offs. I've tried to explain this any time the issue comes up. Unless you the people at MM are crooks (which I don't think you believe), they are just doing the best they can with limited resources. The only software that lacks bugs is software that hasn't been released. Shipping is more important than stamping out 100% of known bugs. I know that about software and the included bugs. No, I don't believe the people at MakeMusic are thieves, I just believe they have a misguided business model which states "ship the new version every year with whatever bugs can't be fixed and get to them later." Your later point about Sibelius and being bought by Avid is a valid one, except that Sibelius never had an annual "release it no matter what" philosophy even before being acquired by Avid. Somehow they were able to pay their developers with that model. That may have been one really good reason why Avid looked to purchase Sibelius instead of Finale, if it were looking to pick up a notation program. But I haven't a clue what companies might want to take on that investment given the big picture with Sibelius. AKAI might be a potential purchaser since they do have a foot in the software market. Sonar would be another great possibility. Sony is another one -- despite what some divisions of that corporation do software wise, they have done a good job after buying Sound Forge about releasing new versions which work well. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
David is absolutely correct on how software companies decide on which bugs to fix. There are 3 criteria most often used: 1. How severe is the bug, will users lose data? 2. How frequently does it happen? 3. How difficult is it to fix? On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:26 AM, dhbailey < dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com> wrote: > Yes, I do believe it to be the case. Tech support personnel have told me >> it is the case, although in a general "this is how we triage bug reports" >> manner and not specifically related to how they decide which bugs from the >> initial release of a new version will be fixed in the update patch. >> >> Can you prove that what I said isn't true? >> >> MakeMusic itself has said through its tech support replies that it >> compiles lists of reported bugs and then decides on which ones to fix based >> on several factors, among them being the number of complaints. That's a >> fact. Other factors which enter into the decision, as reported by tech >> support people, are the difficulty or ease of making the fix, along with >> what other new bugs such a fix might create. But that has been reported >> both to me by tech support people when I have asked when a fix might be >> expected for a bug I was complaining about. >> >> >> ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
On 19 Oct 2009 at 9:45, p_daley tds.net wrote: > David [Bailey] is absolutely correct on how software companies decide on > which bugs > to fix. > > There are 3 criteria most often used: > 1. How severe is the bug, will users lose data? > 2. How frequently does it happen? > 3. How difficult is it to fix? That may be one interpretation of what David said, but it's a very, very charitable one, especially in that he basically completely ignores #3 in his formulation, which went like this in its original wording: >> MakeMusic >> waits a bit to see which of the known bugs raise the largest >> outrage and complaints and then it fixes those and chooses >> to let the rest of the known bugs lie until it can get >> around to them. I really don't think that statement by David is close to being equivalent to the three principles that you outline. David's original statement implies dishonesty and bad faith, and I just think that's completely wrong. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] End of Make Music?
I tried the download ... when it told me it would take 4.5 hrs., I cancelled it. Dean On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Jim Dukey wrote: Phone's out and web site down? Must be out of business. Oh, 2010a out today. The Rumor Mill at the MM Forum is a little ahead of this one! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Canto ergo sum And, I'd rather be composing than decomposing Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
