Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[A-NO-NE Music]

Johannes Gebauer / 2005/12/28 / 09:20 AM wrote:

>I think Apple is to blame here, not Finale.

Or may be M$ Word?
I use EPS export to InDesign (now CS2) a lot for my teaching materials,
and it works just fine.  In fact, I am working on one right now.

Now there is one possibility for common EPS export problem, that is font
corruption in your system.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 28.12.2005 Kurt Gnos wrote:
This is interesting. Here on Windows I print PDFs using the normal 
Adobe printer driver, and the EPSs definitely are included as vector 
and not as pixel graphics.


That would be exactly the same on the Mac if Adobe Acrobat was used to 
create the PDF. However, Macs have the built-in capability to produce 
PDFs, but there are several ways of doing it. The simplest is not always 
the best.


Interesting also that Coda/Makemusic blamed Windows for a long time 
for EPS not working, and now it seems that Macs have there own 
troubles...


Actually, several problems with EPS files were solved in 2k6x on the Mac 
platform.


For all who worry about the font embedding problem: This is solved in 
2k6 if, and only if, you are using OS X 10.4 and up. For me this was the 
main reason to upgrade.


(And if any MacOS X geeks read this, how on earth do you turn off the 
Spotlight icon in the menu bar, preferably while retaining some search 
ability? This thing is wasting my menu space!)


Johannes

--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Kurt Gnos]

This is interesting. Here on Windows I print PDFs using the normal 
Adobe printer driver, and the EPSs definitely are included as vector 
and not as pixel graphics.
Interesting also that Coda/Makemusic blamed Windows for a long time 
for EPS not working, and now it seems that Macs have there own troubles...


Kurt


At 15:20 28.12.2005, you wrote:
Instead of selecting "Save PDF" or the like in the print dialogue, 
select a postscript driver and save as PS file. Now open this PS 
file with Preview, and save it as PDF. The PDF might be larger, but 
I can get EPS graphics to render correctly (otherwise they only get 
embedded as pisel graphics).



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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 27.12.2005 Chuck Israels wrote:
I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps  
graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the  
pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but  
they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,  
or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing  
lines, etc.).


Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way  
things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit  
things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies  
and mail them, and that seems so last century!




If you are on a Mac, try this (works for me in some applications, but I 
don't own Word):


Instead of selecting "Save PDF" or the like in the print dialogue, 
select a postscript driver and save as PS file. Now open this PS file 
with Preview, and save it as PDF. The PDF might be larger, but I can get 
EPS graphics to render correctly (otherwise they only get embedded as 
pisel graphics).


If this is the answer, I suspect there is a problem embedding EPS in 
PDFs when doing this directly from the print dialogue. One application 
where this definitely is the solution is Finale itself, if you placed 
EPS graphics with the graphics tool (which I do for footnotes and the like).


I think Apple is to blame here, not Finale.

Johannes

--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Simon Troup]

>> Although it is an extra step, I found
>> 100% results if I opened the EPS files in Illustrator before dragging
>> into Word.

I always open EPS files in Illustrator CS and re-save. We've found the
files produced are much more "compatible". 

One thing Illustrator does have that Finale doesn't is a really good
scriptable export suite. I run my EPS files through Illustrator using an
AppleScript adapted from one found in "Adobe Illustrator Scripting" by
Ethan Wilde. You can do a similar thing in Windows using VBScript IIRC.

-- 
Simon Troup
Digital Music Art

Real-time Finale discussion - http://www.finaleirc.com

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Carolyn Bremer]

I have done a lot of work with Finale as EPS in Word. I find that I
can repeat the same steps exactly and sometimes it works, sometimes it
doesn't (in the same Word doc). Although it is an extra step, I found
100% results if I opened the EPS files in Illustrator before dragging
into Word.

-Carolyn


On 12/27/05, David W. Fenton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 27 Dec 2005 at 10:01, Chuck Israels wrote:
>
> > On Dec 27, 2005, at 6:46 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
> >
> > > Chuck,
> > >
> > > Are you on Mac?
> >
> > Yes, but I doubt that it's only an embedded fonts problem.  Staff
> > lines don't show up (for example).
> >
> > Can't let this stop me from working.
>
> The makes me think that perhaps you need to examine some of Word's
> settings for embedded graphics. I'm on Windows and so I can't give
> you any advice as to what to look for, but I have found that it's
> sometimes necessary to make adjustments to the embedded graphic
> properties. And I'm not using EPS.
>
> I use embedded TIFFs in Word, and Word is very good with the staff
> lines, however, it helps if you start out with post-Finale 2K staff
> line widths (I think that's the version where Finale's defaults
> changed; it was the version that introduced the Engraver font), so
> that there are more pixels to work with in the first place. It's also
> the case that the grayscale settings and some other embedded graphics
> settings make a difference as to how things are rendered.
>
> Of course, that all my be different with EPS, since EPS is s a
> different animal than a bitmapped graphic.
>
> But I would try searching for any options you have for controlling
> embedded EPS in Word, and see if there's anything you can tweak.
>
> --
> David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
> David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[David W. Fenton]

On 27 Dec 2005 at 10:01, Chuck Israels wrote:

> On Dec 27, 2005, at 6:46 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:
> 
> > Chuck,
> >
> > Are you on Mac?
> 
> Yes, but I doubt that it's only an embedded fonts problem.  Staff 
> lines don't show up (for example).
> 
> Can't let this stop me from working.

The makes me think that perhaps you need to examine some of Word's 
settings for embedded graphics. I'm on Windows and so I can't give 
you any advice as to what to look for, but I have found that it's 
sometimes necessary to make adjustments to the embedded graphic 
properties. And I'm not using EPS. 

I use embedded TIFFs in Word, and Word is very good with the staff 
lines, however, it helps if you start out with post-Finale 2K staff 
line widths (I think that's the version where Finale's defaults 
changed; it was the version that introduced the Engraver font), so 
that there are more pixels to work with in the first place. It's also 
the case that the grayscale settings and some other embedded graphics 
settings make a difference as to how things are rendered.

Of course, that all my be different with EPS, since EPS is s a 
different animal than a bitmapped graphic.

But I would try searching for any options you have for controlling 
embedded EPS in Word, and see if there's anything you can tweak.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Kurt Gnos]

Hi,

as a happy Finalle 2006b user on Windows, having waited for EPS 10 
years to work again, and they seem to do...


I'm doing fine printing PDFs from Word or Quark Xpress. If you need 
to, you can always tweak Adobe's PDF settings to get better quality 
(albeit bigger files, too).
Are you sure you are losing lines in PDFs. Try and zoom in, and I 
guess everything should be there, and you may get up to quite the 
same quality as when printing directly.


Since PDFs are kind of PS anyway, Finale EPS files will continue as 
vector information in PDFs, I guess, and should be scalable without 
losing quality.


I have "normal" PDF settings, however, and the result is perfect. I 
just checked, and I can send you my PDF, if you like.


cheers

Kurt

At 05:01 27.12.2005, you wrote:

Hello all,

I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps
graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the
pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but
they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,
or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing
lines, etc.).

Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way
things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit
things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies
and mail them, and that seems so last century!

TIA,

Chuck


Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Javier Ruiz]

Hi, Chuck.

I can confirm this strange behaviour, it happens also with other programs
like Appleworks. Maybe it is a bug...

The only solution I can offer is to use TIFF files instead of EPS. 300 dpi
will be enough. 

For preview purposes works perfectly although you will have to prepare EPS
files for the final layout of the book (that probably will be made in
QuarkXPress or InDesign).

[If you already have a lot of EPS files you can convert with the Preview
program.]

¡Salud para el 2006!

Javier Ruiz, composer in "quarantaine".

> Hello all,
> 
> I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps
> graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the
> pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but
> they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,
> or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing
> lines, etc.).
> 
> Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way
> things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit
> things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies
> and mail them, and that seems so last century!
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> Chuck Israels
> 230 North Garden Terrace
> Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
> phone (360) 671-3402
> fax (360) 676-6055
> www.chuckisraels.com
> 
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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Chuck Israels]

On Dec 27, 2005, at 6:46 AM, Christopher Smith wrote:


Chuck,

Are you on Mac?


Yes, but I doubt that it's only an embedded fonts problem.  Staff  
lines don't show up (for example).


Can't let this stop me from working.

Chuck


I have noticed for the last few versions that EPS inserts created  
on the Mac DON'T embed fonts, even though I check the box to embed  
them. This means that they print and display (if you call that  
display in recent versions) fine on the computer that created them,  
and on any computer that has installed those exact fonts, but they  
DON'T print or display correctly on a computer that doesn't have  
those exact fonts. Font substitution is the most common flaw I see.


I have been using at home jef chippewa's JazzCord font that Darcy  
had him edit, and when I bring those EPS's to my school computer I  
have the original JazzCord. This means that the Finale files  
created at home still are fine at school, but the EPS's all have  
the chord symbols in Courier. Drag.


Christopher


On Dec 27, 2005, at 12:23 AM, Chuck Israels wrote:

Well, if this is the answer, I probably have two choices: find a  
copy of Quark at the university that I can use, or leave things  
alone and let an editor/layout person worry about this later.  I  
kind of hate to do a halfway job, but I also don't want to have to  
learn another program.  I like to have the graphics and layout  
look right, but it's the musical information that is going to be  
my main contribution.


I've not done this kind of work before, so this is new territory  
for me.  My Finale examples look OK, so maybe someone else will  
assemble them into the final document with my eps examples as  
"placeholders".  Too many different pieces of software!


Thanks, Bill.

Chuck


On Dec 26, 2005, at 8:39 PM, bill wrote:

I use Quark XPress (which is a bit pricy) and eps graphics are  
wonderful.  I
often save entire Finale pages as eps docs and they print like  
lightening.
I often use an "expamples" page and use bits and pieces of it as  
needed with

only one eps page as the source...all beautiful and fast.

Quark is incredibly useful for many different things, and rock- 
solid.  I
think it's about $700 new, but I wouldn't use anything else.   
Just my

opinion...

Bill




From: Chuck Israels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:01:07 -0800
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

Hello all,

I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps
graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the
pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but
they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,
or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly  
(losing

lines, etc.).

Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way
things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit
things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies
and mail them, and that seems so last century!

TIA,

Chuck


Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[John Roberts]

I prepare books on a Mac, and for years have used PageMaker with embedded
Finale eps. PageMaker is OS9 only and since it does exactly what I need, and
since one of my main clients uses it exclusively, I'm not spending hundreds
of dollars to acquire a OSX alternative.

But because of Finale's eps problems (and tab problems) I'm still using
Finale 2003 (or even 2001 for a lot of tab), unless I get files sent to me
In later formats.

I recently discovered that if I don't check font embedding, Finale 2006 eps
files won't display properly at all even on my own computer, though Finale
2005 files will. I tried using pdf files instead of eps files - I just
finished a project with 28 pages of guitar tab, and the resulting PageMaker
file was 33 MB! (Though it looked, and printed fine). When I made a final
pdf of the book, that was less than 350K. This will work when I can email
out a pdf file, but is hardly feasible when I have to send out the PageMaker
doc. Back to Finale 2001...

John Roberts





On 12/27/05 9:46 AM, "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Chuck,
> 
> Are you on Mac? I have noticed for the last few versions that EPS
> inserts created on the Mac DON'T embed fonts, even though I check the
> box to embed them. This means that they print and display (if you call
> that display in recent versions) fine on the computer that created
> them, and on any computer that has installed those exact fonts, but
> they DON'T print or display correctly on a computer that doesn't have
> those exact fonts. Font substitution is the most common flaw I see.
> 
> I have been using at home jef chippewa's JazzCord font that Darcy had
> him edit, and when I bring those EPS's to my school computer I have the
> original JazzCord. This means that the Finale files created at home
> still are fine at school, but the EPS's all have the chord symbols in
> Courier. Drag.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
> On Dec 27, 2005, at 12:23 AM, Chuck Israels wrote:
> 
>> Well, if this is the answer, I probably have two choices: find a copy
>> of Quark at the university that I can use, or leave things alone and
>> let an editor/layout person worry about this later.  I kind of hate to
>> do a halfway job, but I also don't want to have to learn another
>> program.  I like to have the graphics and layout look right, but it's
>> the musical information that is going to be my main contribution.
>> 
>> I've not done this kind of work before, so this is new territory for
>> me.  My Finale examples look OK, so maybe someone else will assemble
>> them into the final document with my eps examples as "placeholders".
>> Too many different pieces of software!
>> 
>> Thanks, Bill.
>> 
>> Chuck
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 26, 2005, at 8:39 PM, bill wrote:
>> 
>>> I use Quark XPress (which is a bit pricy) and eps graphics are
>>> wonderful.  I
>>> often save entire Finale pages as eps docs and they print like
>>> lightening.
>>> I often use an "expamples" page and use bits and pieces of it as
>>> needed with
>>> only one eps page as the source...all beautiful and fast.
>>> 
>>> Quark is incredibly useful for many different things, and rock-solid.
>>>  I
>>> think it's about $700 new, but I wouldn't use anything else.  Just my
>>> opinion...
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: Chuck Israels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
>>>> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:01:07 -0800
>>>> To: finale@shsu.edu
>>>> Subject: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word
>>>> 
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> 
>>>> I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps
>>>> graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the
>>>> pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but
>>>> they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,
>>>> or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing
>>>> lines, etc.).
>>>> 
>>>> Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way
>>>> things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit
>>>> things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies
>>>> and mail them, and that seems so last century!
>>>> 
>>>> TIA,
>>>> 
>>>> Chuck
>>>> 
>>>> 
>&

Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Christopher Smith]

Chuck,

Are you on Mac? I have noticed for the last few versions that EPS 
inserts created on the Mac DON'T embed fonts, even though I check the 
box to embed them. This means that they print and display (if you call 
that display in recent versions) fine on the computer that created 
them, and on any computer that has installed those exact fonts, but 
they DON'T print or display correctly on a computer that doesn't have 
those exact fonts. Font substitution is the most common flaw I see.


I have been using at home jef chippewa's JazzCord font that Darcy had 
him edit, and when I bring those EPS's to my school computer I have the 
original JazzCord. This means that the Finale files created at home 
still are fine at school, but the EPS's all have the chord symbols in 
Courier. Drag.


Christopher


On Dec 27, 2005, at 12:23 AM, Chuck Israels wrote:

Well, if this is the answer, I probably have two choices: find a copy 
of Quark at the university that I can use, or leave things alone and 
let an editor/layout person worry about this later.  I kind of hate to 
do a halfway job, but I also don't want to have to learn another 
program.  I like to have the graphics and layout look right, but it's 
the musical information that is going to be my main contribution.


I've not done this kind of work before, so this is new territory for 
me.  My Finale examples look OK, so maybe someone else will assemble 
them into the final document with my eps examples as "placeholders".  
Too many different pieces of software!


Thanks, Bill.

Chuck


On Dec 26, 2005, at 8:39 PM, bill wrote:

I use Quark XPress (which is a bit pricy) and eps graphics are 
wonderful.  I
often save entire Finale pages as eps docs and they print like 
lightening.
I often use an "expamples" page and use bits and pieces of it as 
needed with

only one eps page as the source...all beautiful and fast.

Quark is incredibly useful for many different things, and rock-solid. 
 I

think it's about $700 new, but I wouldn't use anything else.  Just my
opinion...

Bill




From: Chuck Israels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:01:07 -0800
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

Hello all,

I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps
graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the
pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but
they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,
or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing
lines, etc.).

Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way
things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit
things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies
and mail them, and that seems so last century!

TIA,

Chuck


Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Chuck Israels]

Well, if this is the answer, I probably have two choices: find a copy  
of Quark at the university that I can use, or leave things alone and  
let an editor/layout person worry about this later.  I kind of hate  
to do a halfway job, but I also don't want to have to learn another  
program.  I like to have the graphics and layout look right, but it's  
the musical information that is going to be my main contribution.


I've not done this kind of work before, so this is new territory for  
me.  My Finale examples look OK, so maybe someone else will assemble  
them into the final document with my eps examples as "placeholders".   
Too many different pieces of software!


Thanks, Bill.

Chuck


On Dec 26, 2005, at 8:39 PM, bill wrote:

I use Quark XPress (which is a bit pricy) and eps graphics are  
wonderful.  I
often save entire Finale pages as eps docs and they print like  
lightening.
I often use an "expamples" page and use bits and pieces of it as  
needed with

only one eps page as the source...all beautiful and fast.

Quark is incredibly useful for many different things, and rock- 
solid.  I

think it's about $700 new, but I wouldn't use anything else.  Just my
opinion...

Bill




From: Chuck Israels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:01:07 -0800
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

Hello all,

I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps
graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the
pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but
they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,
or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing
lines, etc.).

Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way
things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit
things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies
and mail them, and that seems so last century!

TIA,

Chuck


Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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Re: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[bill]

I use Quark XPress (which is a bit pricy) and eps graphics are wonderful.  I
often save entire Finale pages as eps docs and they print like lightening.
I often use an "expamples" page and use bits and pieces of it as needed with
only one eps page as the source...all beautiful and fast.

Quark is incredibly useful for many different things, and rock-solid.  I
think it's about $700 new, but I wouldn't use anything else.  Just my
opinion...

Bill



> From: Chuck Israels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:01:07 -0800
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: [Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps
> graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the
> pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but
> they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,
> or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing
> lines, etc.).
> 
> Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way
> things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit
> things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies
> and mail them, and that seems so last century!
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> Chuck Israels
> 230 North Garden Terrace
> Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
> phone (360) 671-3402
> fax (360) 676-6055
> www.chuckisraels.com
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 

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[Finale] Finale EPS graphics in MS Word

[Chuck Israels]

Hello all,

I am working on a document (arranging book) with many Finale eps  
graphic inserts in MS Word, and they print well when I print the  
pages on my HP Laserwriter 5000N.  (They look lame on screen, but  
they print fine.)  However, when I send the file to others in Word,  
or convert it to a pdf file, the Finale examples print badly (losing  
lines, etc.).


Am I doing something less than optimally, or is that just the way  
things are?  I'd like to have others see the work (to help edit  
things and advise me) but, at the moment, I must print hard copies  
and mail them, and that seems so last century!


TIA,

Chuck


Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com

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