Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
At 3:09 PM -0400 6/23/05, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Jun 23, 2005, at 6:47 AM, Ken Durling wrote: An Electric Piano I think technically has to have reeds and hammers, or even strings like those stubby little grands made by Yamaha. Well the terminology may have changed, but back in pre-Moog times there were undoubted electric pianos that produced their sound by purely electronic means. Significantly, these were considered inferior to the electroacoustic kind. Let's see. Bob Moog did his developmental work in the 1960s. The Wurlitzer electric piano came out in the late 1950s, and my Air Force combo lugged one all over Japan on tour. The Rhodes, I think, was developed at about the same time as the original Moog. So no, I can't recall any purely electronic piano pre-Moog. The technololgy didn't exist. What Bob did was take the room full of vacuum tubes that was the primitive RCA Mark II and shrink it down into portable modules. And BTW, does the subcontrabass saxophone even exist? As an actual instrument? I think I've seen a picture of it, but there may well only be one (or a handfull) in the entire world. The bass sax, on the other hand, should be considered and used as a legitimate member of the sax section. (I may be prejudiced because one of the members of our community band owns and plays one!) John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
And BTW, does the subcontrabass saxophone even exist? As an actual instrument? http://images.google.com/images?biw=q=%22subcontrabass+saxophone%22hl=enbtnG=Search+Images ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
John Howell wrote: [snip] I think I've seen a picture of it, but there may well only be one (or a handfull) in the entire world. The bass sax, on the other hand, should be considered and used as a legitimate member of the sax section. (I may be prejudiced because one of the members of our community band owns and plays one!) On the other hand, given the huge expense of owning a bass sax, composers/arrangers should think twice about giving a bass sax it's own, important part if they want the music performed by a wide number of groups. :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
The subcontrabass saxophone does indeed exist -- it's sometimes also called the tubax. It is a relatively new and extremely rare instrument. Photos and more info here: http://www.jayeaston.com/galleries/sax_family/subcontrabass_sax.html - Darcy Server couldn't be found. Oh well, I'll google it someother day. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
At 8:52 AM -0400 6/24/05, dhbailey wrote: John Howell wrote: [snip] I think I've seen a picture of it, but there may well only be one (or a handfull) in the entire world. The bass sax, on the other hand, should be considered and used as a legitimate member of the sax section. (I may be prejudiced because one of the members of our community band owns and plays one!) On the other hand, given the huge expense of owning a bass sax, composers/arrangers should think twice about giving a bass sax it's own, important part if they want the music performed by a wide number of groups. Well of course that's a given, and it's forced on us by the lack of a standard instrumentation for concert bands. When I compose or arrange for our community band, I do write a bass sax part, but it's always treated as sweetening: something that won't be missed if it isn't there, but will add if it is there. We are forced to treat low clarinets--meaning from alto on down to BBb contrabass--in the same tentative way. Our band currently has 2 (or 3) alto clarinets, 1 (or 2) bass clarinets, but nothing lower. Our university wind ensemble does have the contra clarinets and uses them when a score calls for them. For the record, the bass sax player in our community band found his instrument on top of a trash pile, put some money into having it overhauled and buying a good bag for it, and had it in playing condition for only a few hundred dollars. How lucky can ya get?!!! John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
On 23 Jun 2005, at 1:09 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: but who even owns a C-melody now? Scott Robinson. He even has a record where he only plays C-melody. (It's really good, too.) http://home.earthlink.net/~smoulden/scott/melody.html But yeah, clearly it's a niche instrument. I'd say Tuba, French Horn, Fender Rhodes, GPO Jazz/Big Band already has Rhodes piano. Mallets, It already has vibes. acoustic/electric guitar. It already has 2 electric guitars (no acoustic). Did you look at the website before posting this? The info is here: http://www.garritan.com/jazz.html Honestly, there are Hammond Organ programs out there. I don't think we really need it, and I think it's more common in a Jazz Band setting to have a Fender Rhodes than a B3. There are *lots* of classic jazz recordings with B3 -- like ferinstance, Larry Young's _Unity_, with Joe Henderson and Elvin Jones. That said, I agree with you. You can get good B3 samples elsewhere and I'm not exactly broken up about the lack of B3 organ. I was just listing some instruments that would make more sense -- a *lot* more sense -- than subcontrabass saxophone. Jazz violin? Uh, yes. More common than sopranino saxophone, right? Solo Voice? Ever heard Kenny Wheeler's big band recordings? Or Maria Schneider's? Or John Hollenbeck's? Anyway, I realize voice is far beyond the scope of the library, but basic male and female oohs and aahs would still be roughly a thousand times more useful than mezzo-soprano saxophone. Remember, I wasn't listing stuff I thought *should* be included, just stuff that made more sense than some of what *was* included. I think the library needs to cover the basics. I agree. My point was that the library covers a bunch of obscure saxophones *instead* of some of the basics. Remember, before Chuck intervened, they hadn't planned on including bass clarinet, even! (Thankfully, that's been corrected.) If you're going to start throwing in a bunch of extras, why not start with the most useful extras? Trumpets with all the mutes. Saxophones (soprano, alto, tenor, bari), and saxophone doubles (piccolo, flute, alto flute, Bb Clarinet, Bb Bass Clarinet), trombones with all the mutes, Tuba, standard jazz drum set, a good acoustic piano, a good fender rhodes, an acoustic guitar, an electric guitar, acoustic and electric bass, and vibes. I think all the other stuff is not really necessary. Check the website. I think your list is a reasonable one, but from it the GPO Jazz/Big Band is missing tuba, mallets on the drum set, and acoustic guitar. Instead, they included a bunch of saxophones nobody actually owns. It's kind of cool, in a geeky way, but it's terrible marketing. People are bound to say (as I did) -- Why on earth did you include C-melody saxophone but not [instrument X]? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
Darcy James Argue wrote: I'd say Tuba, French Horn, Fender Rhodes, GPO Jazz/Big Band already has Rhodes piano. It does not say Rhodes piano, it says, according to the site, http://garritan.com/jazz.html, Vintage Electric Piano. That could be anything. Could be a Yamaha DX7 for all I know. Vintage Electric Piano does not equal Fender Rhodes. It could be a RMI Electra-Piano, a Wurlitzer, I could go on acoustic/electric guitar. It already has 2 electric guitars (no acoustic). Did you look at the website before posting this? The info is here: http://www.garritan.com/jazz.html Yeah, I did smart ass. It says TWO ELECTRIC Guitars. No acoustic. Not even what types of strings on the guitar, etc, etc. There are *lots* of classic jazz recordings with B3 -- like ferinstance, Larry Young's _Unity_, with Joe Henderson and Elvin Jones. That said, I agree with you. You can get good B3 samples elsewhere and I'm not exactly broken up about the lack of B3 organ. I was just listing some instruments that would make more sense -- a *lot* more sense -- than subcontrabass saxophone. On this we agree. All those strange saxophones need to go. Jazz violin? Uh, yes. More common than sopranino saxophone, right? Again, it's like C-Melody. I know of no jazz saxophonist in the SF Bay Area that plays/records on it. Ever heard Kenny Wheeler's big band recordings? Or Maria Schneider's? Or John Hollenbeck's? Anyway, I realize voice is far beyond the scope of the library, but basic male and female oohs and aahs would still be roughly a thousand times more useful than mezzo-soprano saxophone. Remember, I wasn't listing stuff I thought *should* be included, just stuff that made more sense than some of what *was* included. Indeed, a mezzo-soprano is a waste of space. But I think most people are going to use the GPO Jazz for rough sketches. When I do a vocal piece, I usually have a flute or something play the vocal line. Check the website. I think your list is a reasonable one, but from it the GPO Jazz/Big Band is missing tuba, mallets on the drum set, and acoustic guitar. Instead, they included a bunch of saxophones nobody actually owns. It's kind of cool, in a geeky way, but it's terrible marketing. People are bound to say (as I did) -- Why on earth did you include C-melody saxophone but not [instrument X]? Yeah, I think those saxophones need to go. A Marimba would be nice to have... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
On 23 Jun 2005, at 2:28 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: I'd say Tuba, French Horn, Fender Rhodes, GPO Jazz/Big Band already has Rhodes piano. It does not say Rhodes piano, it says, according to the site, http://garritan.com/jazz.html, Vintage Electric Piano. That could be anything. Could be a Yamaha DX7 for all I know. Vintage Electric Piano does not equal Fender Rhodes. It could be a RMI Electra-Piano, a Wurlitzer, I could go on 95% of the time, Vintage Electric Piano is code for Rhodes (which they can't actually say, for trademark reasons). Sure, theoretically, it _could_ be anything, but I'd be pretty surprised if it turned out to be anything other than a Rhodes. acoustic/electric guitar. It already has 2 electric guitars (no acoustic). Did you look at the website before posting this? The info is here: http://www.garritan.com/jazz.html Yeah, I did smart ass. It says TWO ELECTRIC Guitars. No acoustic. Um, yeah -- isn't that *exactly what I said*, immediately above? (And what's with the gratuitous insults? Chill out, already.) There are *lots* of classic jazz recordings with B3 -- like ferinstance, Larry Young's _Unity_, with Joe Henderson and Elvin Jones. That said, I agree with you. You can get good B3 samples elsewhere and I'm not exactly broken up about the lack of B3 organ. I was just listing some instruments that would make more sense -- a *lot* more sense -- than subcontrabass saxophone. On this we agree. All those strange saxophones need to go. Well, I don't know that they need to go, now that they've been sampled and programmed. It will actually be kind of fun to have them. But recording them was a very strange use of limited resources, even if their player already owned all these obscure saxes. Jazz violin? Uh, yes. More common than sopranino saxophone, right? Again, it's like C-Melody. I know of no jazz saxophonist in the SF Bay Area that plays/records on it. Jazz violin is actually much more common than C-Melody sax. There are lots of jazz violinists in NYC, so I'm sure there are at least a few in the Bay Area. (Again, I'm not saying No basic jazz sample library would be complete without jazz violin -- just that it would be a more defensible choice than some of the other instruments Gary decided to include.) People are bound to say (as I did) -- Why on earth did you include C-melody saxophone but not [instrument X]? [...] A Marimba would be nice to have... See what I mean? [grin] Marimba's cool but pretty rare in jazz contexts. [Although *I* use it a fair bit.] However, I imagine anyone who really needed marimba -- like, say, me -- would want the Orchestral GPO as well as the Jazz Edition. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
At 12:14 AM 6/23/2005, you wrote: Could be a Yamaha DX7 for all I know. Vintage Electric Piano does not equal Fender Rhodes. It could be a RMI Electra-Piano, a Wurlitzer, I could go on... As long as we're picking nits ;-) I would never classify a DX7 as an Electric Piano, it's a synth. All the Vintage EP sounds I hear on various units and sound sets seem to be either Rhodes or Wurlitzer, so I think it's a safe bet. An Electric Piano I think technically has to have reeds and hammers, or even strings like those stubby little grands made by Yamaha. Jazz violin? Uh, yes. More common than sopranino saxophone, right? Again, it's like C-Melody. I know of no jazz saxophonist in the SF Bay Area that plays/records on it. Jazz violin is actually much more common than C-Melody sax. There are lots of jazz violinists in NYC, so I'm sure there are at least a few in the Bay Area. Yes, a couple of quite well-known ones, too: Jeremy Cohen, Jenny Scheinmann, Darryl Anger... more I'm sure. Ken ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
On Jun 23, 2005, at 2:05 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: (snip) the GPO Jazz/Big Band is missing tuba, mallets on the drum set, and acoustic guitar. I am partial myself to the tuba (heh, heh, because I actually play jazz tuba. Jim Self would be the guy to sample for jazz tuba, though!) but acoustic guitar is so well accounted for in just about every synth, sample collection, and virtual instrument that it might be hard to justify it in this collection. But mallets on the drum set, absolutely! That one escaped me at first. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
Darcy James Argue / 2005/06/23 / 03:14 AM wrote: Jazz violin is actually much more common than C-Melody sax. There are lots of jazz violinists in NYC, so I'm sure there are at least a few in the Bay Area. Jazz violin trend is happening only last few years on this side of coast. What I mean is we started to see really capable (read groovin') jazz violin players and they are getting good attention these days, but it was not like this 10 years ago even after Tutu. Which brings another question. There got to be a distinction between acoustic and electric jazz violin as you can't say jazz guitar without defining electric and nylon, right? By the way, I am still waiting Gary to respond to my GPO registration issue but to no avail. What's my option? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
On 23 Jun 2005, at 11:52 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: By the way, I am still waiting Gary to respond to my GPO registration issue but to no avail. What's my option? Hiro, You need to talk to NI about registration issues. They handle all the copy protection stuff. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
Darcy James Argue / 2005/06/23 / 12:24 PM wrote: You need to talk to NI about registration issues. They handle all the copy protection stuff. I know, but the only way to get response from NI is if you are registered. That's why I thought Gary would help me out on this as his welcome email message said :-( -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
on 6/23/05 11:52 AM, A-NO-NE Music at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which brings another question. There got to be a distinction between acoustic and electric jazz violin as you can't say jazz guitar without defining electric and nylon, right? Wait add to that Selmer style and acoustic archtop type guitars as well. Acoustic jazz is coming back in to style along with jazz violin. It's the whole Gypsy Jazz craze that is fueling it. The other jazz related crazes are ukulele and steel guitar. This is pre-bop older jazz stuff but, that's the same fuel that is bringing back Grapelli style violin. In fact jazz mandolin is becoming pretty hot now as well. _Adriel ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
On Jun 23, 2005, at 6:47 AM, Ken Durling wrote: An Electric Piano I think technically has to have reeds and hammers, or even strings like those stubby little grands made by Yamaha. Well the terminology may have changed, but back in pre-Moog times there were undoubted electric pianos that produced their sound by purely electronic means. Significantly, these were considered inferior to the electroacoustic kind. And BTW, does the subcontrabass saxophone even exist? As an actual instrument? Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
Hey Andrew, The subcontrabass saxophone does indeed exist -- it's sometimes also called the tubax. It is a relatively new and extremely rare instrument. Photos and more info here: http://www.jayeaston.com/galleries/sax_family/subcontrabass_sax.html - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 23 Jun 2005, at 3:09 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Jun 23, 2005, at 6:47 AM, Ken Durling wrote: An Electric Piano I think technically has to have reeds and hammers, or even strings like those stubby little grands made by Yamaha. Well the terminology may have changed, but back in pre-Moog times there were undoubted electric pianos that produced their sound by purely electronic means. Significantly, these were considered inferior to the electroacoustic kind. And BTW, does the subcontrabass saxophone even exist? As an actual instrument? Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
On Jun 22, 2005, at 7:38 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: I just had a quick correspondence with Gary and this was the result: Hi Chuck, OK. Based on your recommendation we will include a bass clarinet. That's terrific! I agree with Darcy and you that the bass clarinet is essential. I got an education reading the forum posts about the various saxophones. I had never heard of the soprillo (Eb piccolo sax) the F mezzo-soprano sax, nor the sub-contrabass sax going to Ab a note below the piano! But why include these, and leave out the bass clarinet? I have written countless times for banjo, accordian, French horn, tuba, and jazz violin in jazz contexts (none of which are present in the GPO jazz collection) but never once in my life for even bass saxophone, and only once for sopranino sax. I've even written for bagpipe chanter and ocarina (though I wouldn't insist on having those instruments present in a basic collection!) Nice to see him including some plunger brass, too, the omission of which I had noticed the first time around. I hope he includes a nice variety of open, closed, 1/2 open, wah, aow, and growls, which are indispensable to me (though to tell the truth, it's more important for OTHER people listening to my mockups, as I already know about what it will sound like.) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
On 23 Jun 2005, at 00:38, Chuck Israels wrote:I just had a quick correspondence with Gary and this was the result:"Hi Chuck,OK. Based on your recommendation we will include a bass clarinet.Well done Chuck! You made them see sense.John___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
That's terrific! I agree with Darcy and you that the bass clarinet is essential.Nice to see him including some plunger brass, too, the omission of which I had noticed the first time around. I hope he includes a nice variety of open, closed, 1/2 open, wah, aow, and growls, which are indispensable to me (though to tell the truth, it's more important for OTHER people listening to my mockups, as I already know about what it will sound like.)Dear Chris,Glad to have been able to help.When this library arrives, I will surely need lots of help from many of you who have been using sounds and mixers and things. My experience with these is rudimentary, and the inclusion of better integration in 2006 will be likely to encourage me to go a little deeper.I know I can look forward to great information and plenty of patience from folks like you and Darcy.I am optimistic about all of this improving (Finale, GPO, and how easy they might be to learn and to use), even though there are some for whom the improvements don't address their particular needs, or simply don't arrive quickly enough. This seems as if it will be a good period.Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
On Jun 22, 2005, at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I have written countless times for banjo, accordian, French horn, tuba, and jazz violin in jazz contexts (none of which are present in the GPO jazz collection) Of course, so have I (some, anyway - French Horn, the most often), but as you seem to reasonably understand things (and as I do), none of these are standard doubles in a normal jazz band, so I wouldn't think they'd need inclusion. If those instruments are needed, then I understand the organization of the GPO marketing that would put them in the orchestra library and not include them in the jazz sounds. Anyway, that's how it makes sense to me. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
Hi Chuck, Chris, et al, I think Chris's point (with which I emphatically agree) is that it's a little perplexing as to why Gary felt the need to include so many exotic saxophones -- sopranino; both curved and straight soprano (neither is exotic, obviously, but the difference in tone between them is negligible); both mezzo-soprano and C-melody; bass, contrabass, *and* subcontrabass saxophones -- in favor of more commonly-used instruments. We all agree that bass clarinet is an absolute necessity, and so I'm VERY VERY grateful that Chuck was able to pull some strings to make that happen. But I can think of several instruments that would make more sense for this library than, say, subcontrabass saxophone. None of them are absolutely glaring omissions like the bass clarinet was, but I'd certainly be willing to forgo all of the rare saxophones (even sopranino, a personal favorite of mine) in exchange for any of the following: • a mallet kit (it currently has only sticks and brushes) • modern electric guitar with chorus and volume pedal • acoustic guitar • Hammond organ • solo voice (oohs and aahs) • French horn • tuba • solo violin (jazz player) • accordion • oboe/English horn Obviously, many of these aren't a problem for me personally since I already own the orchestra GPO (as do Chuck and Chris), and so I can mix and match freely. It's just a little -- well, *weird* -- that Gary thought it was worth the time and expense to track down and sample all those rare saxophones instead of including instruments that are much more useful to working jazz arrangers and composers. (Not to mention much more likely to be available in a real-life playing situation!) I know there's a certain geekish satisfaction in shipping such a thorough saxophone library, but it's almost like Gary believed If I just include mezzo-soprano saxophone, no one will notice the lack of bass clarinet. But again, I'm very happy Chuck was able to set him straight on that -- and I'm definitely looking forward to the library. It will certainly be fun to mess around with a sax quartet consisting of sopranino, mezzo-soprano, C-melody and subcontrabass saxophones. Not very productive, but definitely fun. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 22 Jun 2005, at 8:31 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: On Jun 22, 2005, at 5:08 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I have written countless times for banjo, accordian, French horn, tuba, and jazz violin in jazz contexts (none of which are present in the GPO jazz collection) Of course, so have I (some, anyway - French Horn, the most often), but as you seem to reasonably understand things (and as I do), none of these are standard doubles in a normal jazz band, so I wouldn't think they'd need inclusion. If those instruments are needed, then I understand the organization of the GPO marketing that would put them in the orchestra library and not include them in the jazz sounds. Anyway, that's how it makes sense to me. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
Chuck Israels wrote: Hi Darcy, I haven't asked Gary, but I think what probably happened was that he simply ran into a saxophone player/collector who had all this stuff and who convinced Gary to take the time to record them all. All of what you write below makes sense to me, but I have another concern about this collection, and that is who played the instruments. There are so many variations in saxophone sound that I hope he got someone who is at least actually a real jazz player. I don't know who he got, or what he sounds like, but I'd forgo some instruments in favor of a tenor sound I could relate to (and there are many of them). Imagine - Wayne Shorter, or Lew Tabackin - big difference, and both beautiful, but who knows who Gary got. I do not get the idea that he is very jazz savvy. So we will simply have to wait and see, and whatever it is, it will be far better than what I am now saddled with - dumb GM or GPO bassoons that run out of range and sound rather wrong anyway. Hmmm... can you imagine a sax section of all Stan Getz'? (What's the plural of Getz?) Or maybe all Steve Kupka? Phil Woods? We'll know the technology is mature when you can build a section from specific player samples. cd ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Chuck, Chris, et al, I think Chris's point (with which I emphatically agree) is that it's a little perplexing as to why Gary felt the need to include so many exotic saxophones -- sopranino; both curved and straight soprano (neither is exotic, obviously, but the difference in tone between them is negligible); both mezzo-soprano and C-melody; bass, contrabass, *and* subcontrabass saxophones -- in favor of more commonly-used instruments. Well, I think the soprano saxes are ok, as there are differences in tone, but who even owns a C-melody now? I've played in many, many pro jazz bands, and I've never seen doubles on C-Melody, bass, contrabass, and subcontra. The only thing I've ever seen SOME of those on was a production of West Side Story, where there is actually a Bb Bass saxophone part. We all agree that bass clarinet is an absolute necessity, and so I'm VERY VERY grateful that Chuck was able to pull some strings to make that happen. But I can think of several instruments that would make more sense for this library than, say, subcontrabass saxophone. None of them are absolutely glaring omissions like the bass clarinet was, but I'd certainly be willing to forgo all of the rare saxophones (even sopranino, a personal favorite of mine) in exchange for any of the following: • a mallet kit (it currently has only sticks and brushes) • modern electric guitar with chorus and volume pedal • acoustic guitar • Hammond organ • solo voice (oohs and aahs) • French horn • tuba • solo violin (jazz player) • accordion • oboe/English horn I'd say Tuba, French Horn, Fender Rhodes, Mallets, acoustic/electric guitar. Honestly, there are Hammond Organ programs out there. I don't think we really need it, and I think it's more common in a Jazz Band setting to have a Fender Rhodes than a B3. Jazz violin? Solo Voice? I think the library needs to cover the basics. Trumpets with all the mutes. Saxophones (soprano, alto, tenor, bari), and saxophone doubles (piccolo, flute, alto flute, Bb Clarinet, Bb Bass Clarinet), trombones with all the mutes, Tuba, standard jazz drum set, a good acoustic piano, a good fender rhodes, an acoustic guitar, an electric guitar, acoustic and electric bass, and vibes. I think all the other stuff is not really necessary. The model should be Jazz Bands. Think Toshiko, Buddy Rich, Gordon Goodwin, Bob Florance, and perhaps Stan Kenton. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO Jazz + B. Clarinet
Steel guitar acoustic and electric. Think about 1920s-30s jazz/swing. -Adriel on 6/23/05 1:09 AM, Eric Dannewitz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Chuck, Chris, et al, I think Chris's point (with which I emphatically agree) is that it's a little perplexing as to why Gary felt the need to include so many exotic saxophones -- sopranino; both curved and straight soprano (neither is exotic, obviously, but the difference in tone between them is negligible); both mezzo-soprano and C-melody; bass, contrabass, *and* subcontrabass saxophones -- in favor of more commonly-used instruments. Well, I think the soprano saxes are ok, as there are differences in tone, but who even owns a C-melody now? I've played in many, many pro jazz bands, and I've never seen doubles on C-Melody, bass, contrabass, and subcontra. The only thing I've ever seen SOME of those on was a production of West Side Story, where there is actually a Bb Bass saxophone part. We all agree that bass clarinet is an absolute necessity, and so I'm VERY VERY grateful that Chuck was able to pull some strings to make that happen. But I can think of several instruments that would make more sense for this library than, say, subcontrabass saxophone. None of them are absolutely glaring omissions like the bass clarinet was, but I'd certainly be willing to forgo all of the rare saxophones (even sopranino, a personal favorite of mine) in exchange for any of the following: a mallet kit (it currently has only sticks and brushes) modern electric guitar with chorus and volume pedal acoustic guitar Hammond organ solo voice (oohs and aahs) French horn tuba solo violin (jazz player) accordion oboe/English horn I'd say Tuba, French Horn, Fender Rhodes, Mallets, acoustic/electric guitar. Honestly, there are Hammond Organ programs out there. I don't think we really need it, and I think it's more common in a Jazz Band setting to have a Fender Rhodes than a B3. Jazz violin? Solo Voice? I think the library needs to cover the basics. Trumpets with all the mutes. Saxophones (soprano, alto, tenor, bari), and saxophone doubles (piccolo, flute, alto flute, Bb Clarinet, Bb Bass Clarinet), trombones with all the mutes, Tuba, standard jazz drum set, a good acoustic piano, a good fender rhodes, an acoustic guitar, an electric guitar, acoustic and electric bass, and vibes. I think all the other stuff is not really necessary. The model should be Jazz Bands. Think Toshiko, Buddy Rich, Gordon Goodwin, Bob Florance, and perhaps Stan Kenton. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
