Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
When I want the articulation above I use my above definition/metatool. When I want it below, I use my below one. But I never need to enter one articulation and have the software choose for me. well that is kind of the point, that is exactly what this function offers. for example, staccato on note side when 1 layer, but auto-position will reposition it above layer 1 and below layer 2 where there are multiple voices. definition of 1 artic rather than 2. don't see how you can argue that that isn't great. i have a few cases of multiple artics of course as well (accent that sits a bit further from the notehead to avoid collisions with slurs that IMO should be done by the software automatically) but i don't see any reason not to reduce the number of artics if built-in functionality allows for it. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
I use auto position articulations all the time on multi-voice staves, in which two parts share the same staff in the score but are extracted into individual parts. When you need different articulations in the parts (such as a divisi with rhythmically independent lines) you need them to appear on the stem side in the score, but have them automatically move to the note side in the parts. -Brian Williams On 9/22/10 10:00 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: ok, how about vocal music? single staff passage changing from unison to two voiced (in separate layers). I'm not sure I understand. When I want the articulation above I use my above definition/ metatool. When I want it below, I use my below one. But I never need to enter one articulation and have the software choose for me. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
On Sep 22, 2010, at 4:02 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: definition of 1 artic rather than 2. don't see how you can argue that that isn't great. It would be great if you could control placement, but you can't. If you have a single definition that might place above or below the note, then you have just one pair of values for handle positioning. If you say yes to a flipped symbol (whether you actually use a different character or not), you can get a second pair, but it's keyed to above-vs-below which might not be what you want. (More likely if I want different positioning, it's noteside-vs-stemside.) Or something like staccato where if you like your stemside dots centered on the stem you need three pairs for sure. (I actually use all four, since my noteside above is just slightly different from my noteside below.) There are probably some articulations where I could use a single definition and not mind the placement, but since so many of them require two, I just keep all articulations that way for consistency. I have a metatool scheme I'm used to. If I had my way, every articulation definition would allow handle positioning numbers for each of four cases: upstem noteside, downstem noteside, upstem stemside, and downstem stemside. Then I would use a single definition for each, but without that I'm just too fussy and I'd end up nudging every stemside articulation. Speaking of nudging, I'd also like each articulation definition to have an offset for when it's put over a whole note. I haven't broken down and made a separate fermata articulation for whole notes, but I probably should, since I'm always nudging them. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
I use auto position articulations all the time on multi-voice staves, in which two parts share the same staff in the score but are extracted into individual parts. When you need different articulations in the parts (such as a divisi with rhythmically independent lines) you need them to appear on the stem side in the score, but have them automatically move to the note side in the parts. I can see how you'd need that with part extraction, but since I never do part extraction, I've never had to address the problem. So what do you do about placement then? If I'm understanding the articulation definition right, if you've got two voices on a part in the score and there's a staccato dot on the upstem note, it'll be stemside there. If the same note becomes a downstem in the part, the dot is still above the note and now noteside, but it will have the exact same H and V positioning relative to the note as the one in the score. Correct? Doesn't that bother you? I know that most people aren't as picky as me, but surely *some* are. Or is there some other way of positioning that I'm not familiar with? I always use the numbers in the handle positioning fields. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
There are probably some articulations where I could use a single definition and not mind the placement, but since so many of them require two, I just keep all articulations that way for consistency. fair enough, i agree with your points, but just wanted to point out that the auto-position functionality can be very useful in a variety of instrumental contexts. but admittedly, in vocal music you won't come across so many of these situations. however, even in vocal music, there must be some artics you want centred over the notehead and not the stem when on stem side... fermati for example? I have a metatool scheme I'm used to. i find sometimes with some users that habit is actually the main reason not to incorporate new functionality in their work... ;-) If I had my way, every articulation definition would allow handle positioning numbers for each of four cases: upstem noteside, downstem noteside, upstem stemside, and downstem stemside. yep. another dream topic. Then I would use a single definition for each, but without that I'm just too fussy and I'd end up nudging every stemside articulation. precision is a good thing in my books 8-) Speaking of nudging, I'd also like each articulation definition to have an offset for when it's put over a whole note. I haven't broken down and made a separate fermata articulation for whole notes, but I probably should, since I'm always nudging them. check centre horizontally ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
But on whole notes, the articulation is frequently placed above when the correct place is below. The default Fermata and tremolo (single, double, and triple slashes) articulations are the most common in my work. On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 1:12 PM, SN jef chippewa shirl...@newmusicnotation.com wrote: There are probably some articulations where I could use a single definition and not mind the placement, but since so many of them require two, I just keep all articulations that way for consistency. fair enough, i agree with your points, but just wanted to point out that the auto-position functionality can be very useful in a variety of instrumental contexts. but admittedly, in vocal music you won't come across so many of these situations. however, even in vocal music, there must be some artics you want centred over the notehead and not the stem when on stem side... fermati for example? I have a metatool scheme I'm used to. i find sometimes with some users that habit is actually the main reason not to incorporate new functionality in their work... ;-) If I had my way, every articulation definition would allow handle positioning numbers for each of four cases: upstem noteside, downstem noteside, upstem stemside, and downstem stemside. yep. another dream topic. Then I would use a single definition for each, but without that I'm just too fussy and I'd end up nudging every stemside articulation. precision is a good thing in my books 8-) Speaking of nudging, I'd also like each articulation definition to have an offset for when it's put over a whole note. I haven't broken down and made a separate fermata articulation for whole notes, but I probably should, since I'm always nudging them. check centre horizontally ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
On Sep 22, 2010, at 2:51 PM, Ryan wrote: But on whole notes, the articulation is frequently placed above when the correct place is below. The default Fermata and tremolo (single, double, and triple slashes) articulations are the most common in my work. Can't you fix this by just flipping the stem on the whole note? I know, whole notes don't actually have stems, but the principle is the same. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
On Sep 22, 2010, at 1:12 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: i find sometimes with some users that habit is actually the main reason not to incorporate new functionality in their work... ;-) And a very fine reason it is. Habit is valuable. It takes a fairly high threshold of functionality to warrant breaking it. Speaking of nudging, I'd also like each articulation definition to have an offset for when it's put over a whole note. I haven't broken down and made a separate fermata articulation for whole notes, but I probably should, since I'm always nudging them. check centre horizontally Well, I'll be darned. They ARE different now. On double-whole note, too. I must have been remembering from how it was before I upgraded to v2010, and somehow I didn't notice that it's better now. I take back my complaint. In this respect, the way Finale works now is just fine. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
linked parts Ah, OK. I never do linked parts. ok, how about vocal music? single staff passage changing from unison to two voiced (in separate layers). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
L is for flipping stems, F is for flipping ties and slurs yes, total coherence. once again. also: call up line spacing dialogue in the: - text tool, while editing text: cmd-sh-L - text tool, while text handle is selected: cmd-sh-L - expression tool (text): cmd-sh-L - expression tool (shape): ps, not available at all here, entire text menu is greyed out - expression tool while text handle is selected: not available as key command or menu item call up character settings dialogue in the: - text tool, while editing text: cmd-opt-T - text tool, while text handle is selected: cmd-opt-T - text expression designer dialogue: cmd-opt-T - expression tool (shape): ps, not available at all here, entire text menu is greyed out - expression tool while text handle is selected: not available as key command or menu item justification and kerning in the: - text tool: yes - expression tool: no whether or not you use Command has to do with whether it is in both the score and the part (I think), but I never remember how that works, and I'm not sure I ever noticed the difference. key WITH cmd is the alternate (let's say normally undesirable) version. e.g. in part, nudge = move in parts only, cmd-nudge = move in PTs PLUS SC. in SC nudge moves expression in SC AND PTs (all) because it is assumed this is normal (i think most would agree), cmd-nudge = move ONLY in SC. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
On Sep 21, 2010, at 7:48 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: ok, how about vocal music? single staff passage changing from unison to two voiced (in separate layers). I'm not sure I understand. When I want the articulation above I use my above definition/ metatool. When I want it below, I use my below one. But I never need to enter one articulation and have the software choose for me. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
L is for flipping stems, F is for flipping ties and slurs, and whether or not you use Command has to do with whether it is in both the score and the part (I think), but I never remember how that works, and I'm not sure I ever noticed the difference. About the tuplet number positioning: when a bracketed tuplet (broken bracket - always flat) is positioned too close to the staff, the relative position of the number to the bracket changes - the bracket is no longer vertically centered on the number and, though it is perfectly legible, I am always moving them manually so that the bracket is correctly centered. This has something to do with avoid staff positioning (which I prefer and always use). I'm sure there are many even more particular users who have seen this. Is there a solution I am missing? Thanks, Chuck On Sep 19, 2010, at 7:52 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Yeah, well I can never remember whether the keystroke is F, L, command F or command L. I usually try all four before I find the right one. Furthermore, the number in the tuplet never seems to be in the right place when I flip the tuplet. Urg. You are right about the articulation flip. That would be nice. Christopher On Sun Sep 19, at SundaySep 19 10:18 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: well the bug should be fixed, in any case, but it would also be useful if MM incorporated the flip behaviour to artics already available for slurs, ties, tuplets. and since we're there, for expressions as well. there, now lyric tool users like me too. Remember in the old days when you had to have some that always appeared above, some that always appeared below, and some that positioned normally, until Auto came along? Well, you still need a separate set with new positionings! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 Portland, OR 97209 phone: (503) 926-7952 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
It's a bug and the only solution I've found is to manually drag them. On 19 Sep 2010, at 9:11 PM, Brian Williams wrote: Hello Finale list Perhaps someone can help me with this problem. Since Finale 2010 or so, whenever I change a staff to Rhythmic Notation either by Staff Attributes or by using a Staff Style, the ARTICULATIONS end up BELOW the staff instead of ABOVE like they used to. How do I set the default position of articulations in Rhythmic Notation to behave like they used to do? There's nothing in the articulation designer that will allow this. PLEASE HELP! Brian Williams ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
Hmmmn! I don't think I have this problem using Bill Duncan's Articulations Font (which I know you have, Darcy). I'm using 2011, but I don't remember it in 2010. I don't have Finale open at the moment, but can you not create a set of articulations that appear only above notes? What am I missing here? Chuck On Sep 19, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: It's a bug and the only solution I've found is to manually drag them. On 19 Sep 2010, at 9:11 PM, Brian Williams wrote: Hello Finale list Perhaps someone can help me with this problem. Since Finale 2010 or so, whenever I change a staff to Rhythmic Notation either by Staff Attributes or by using a Staff Style, the ARTICULATIONS end up BELOW the staff instead of ABOVE like they used to. How do I set the default position of articulations in Rhythmic Notation to behave like they used to do? There's nothing in the articulation designer that will allow this. PLEASE HELP! Brian Williams ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 Portland, OR 97209 phone: (503) 926-7952 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
Auto Note/Stem Side positioning doesn't work -- those articulations end up below on Rhythmic. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 19 Sep 2010, at 9:24 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hmmmn! I don't think I have this problem using Bill Duncan's Articulations Font (which I know you have, Darcy). I'm using 2011, but I don't remember it in 2010. I don't have Finale open at the moment, but can you not create a set of articulations that appear only above notes? What am I missing here? Chuck On Sep 19, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: It's a bug and the only solution I've found is to manually drag them. On 19 Sep 2010, at 9:11 PM, Brian Williams wrote: Hello Finale list Perhaps someone can help me with this problem. Since Finale 2010 or so, whenever I change a staff to Rhythmic Notation either by Staff Attributes or by using a Staff Style, the ARTICULATIONS end up BELOW the staff instead of ABOVE like they used to. How do I set the default position of articulations in Rhythmic Notation to behave like they used to do? There's nothing in the articulation designer that will allow this. PLEASE HELP! Brian Williams ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 1310 NW Naito Parkway #807 Portland, OR 97209 phone: (503) 926-7952 cell phone: (360) 201-3434 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
That's true, but you can create ANOTHER set of articulations that are set to ALWAYS appear above, and those work on Rhythmic Notation. Remember in the old days when you had to have some that always appeared above, some that always appeared below, and some that positioned normally, until Auto came along? Well, you still need a separate set with new positionings! I have complained about this to MakeMusic; i suggest you do the same. Christopher On Sun Sep 19, at SundaySep 19 9:26 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Auto Note/Stem Side positioning doesn't work -- those articulations end up below on Rhythmic. Cheers, - DJA - WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org On 19 Sep 2010, at 9:24 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Hmmmn! I don't think I have this problem using Bill Duncan's Articulations Font (which I know you have, Darcy). I'm using 2011, but I don't remember it in 2010. I don't have Finale open at the moment, but can you not create a set of articulations that appear only above notes? What am I missing here? Chuck On Sep 19, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: It's a bug and the only solution I've found is to manually drag them. On 19 Sep 2010, at 9:11 PM, Brian Williams wrote: Hello Finale list Perhaps someone can help me with this problem. Since Finale 2010 or so, whenever I change a staff to Rhythmic Notation either by Staff Attributes or by using a Staff Style, the ARTICULATIONS end up BELOW the staff instead of ABOVE like they used to. How do I set the default position of articulations in Rhythmic Notation to behave like they used to do? There's nothing in the articulation designer that will allow this. PLEASE HELP! Brian Williams ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
well the bug should be fixed, in any case, but it would also be useful if MM incorporated the flip behaviour to artics already available for slurs, ties, tuplets. and since we're there, for expressions as well. there, now lyric tool users like me too. Remember in the old days when you had to have some that always appeared above, some that always appeared below, and some that positioned normally, until Auto came along? Well, you still need a separate set with new positionings! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
On Sep 19, 2010, at 7:06 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Remember in the old days when you had to have some that always appeared above, some that always appeared below, and some that positioned normally, until Auto came along? Well, you still need a separate set with new positionings! I still have two definitions for almost every articulation. The problem with Auto is that you can't make separate handle positioning adjustments for each case. Even if you use a flipped symbol, you only have two H-V position pairs and you need four (noteside above, noteside below, stemside above, stemside below). With many articulations you can get it close enough that it's passable for each position, but if you want to specify an exact position for each case, you need two definitions. I don't think I have any articulation definition defined for auto. I can't imagine a case where I don't already know whether I want it above or below. I guess maybe if you entered something and then transposed it later or move it to a different clef, but that's not something I'd normally do. (And even if I did, I'd expect to have to tidy it up in other respects anyway.) mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
I can't imagine a case where I don't already know whether I want it above or below. linked parts ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
On Sep 19, 2010, at 8:01 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: linked parts Ah, OK. I never do linked parts. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] HELP! How do I make articulations appear ABOVE the staff in Rhythmic Notation?
Yeah, well I can never remember whether the keystroke is F, L, command F or command L. I usually try all four before I find the right one. Furthermore, the number in the tuplet never seems to be in the right place when I flip the tuplet. Urg. You are right about the articulation flip. That would be nice. Christopher On Sun Sep 19, at SundaySep 19 10:18 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: well the bug should be fixed, in any case, but it would also be useful if MM incorporated the flip behaviour to artics already available for slurs, ties, tuplets. and since we're there, for expressions as well. there, now lyric tool users like me too. Remember in the old days when you had to have some that always appeared above, some that always appeared below, and some that positioned normally, until Auto came along? Well, you still need a separate set with new positionings! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
