Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
Unfortunately, no. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 28, 2008, at 12:02 AM, dhbailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: Christopher Smith wrote: On Aug 27, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: the new expression design, which I find not to be without its problems. Some things work fine, but this does not, and there are issues with linked parts and the fact that you can't assign a dynamic to a note in layer two and have it position itself in relation to that note. (Down stem bass drum notes in drum set parts, for instance.) Chuck Yes, this is a huge pain. When I assign a dynamic to a tuba part alone in Layer 1, the dynamic moves downward nicely. As soon as I have the same tuba part in Layer 2 with bass trombone in Layer 1 above it, the dynamic seems only to take the Layer 1 notes into account. Christopher Does that change if you've put the focus on layer 2 by clicking on the 2 in the lower left of the screen before assigning the dynamic? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
Christopher Smith wrote: On Aug 27, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: the new expression design, which I find not to be without its problems. Some things work fine, but this does not, and there are issues with linked parts and the fact that you can't assign a dynamic to a note in layer two and have it position itself in relation to that note. (Down stem bass drum notes in drum set parts, for instance.) Chuck Yes, this is a huge pain. When I assign a dynamic to a tuba part alone in Layer 1, the dynamic moves downward nicely. As soon as I have the same tuba part in Layer 2 with bass trombone in Layer 1 above it, the dynamic seems only to take the Layer 1 notes into account. Christopher Does that change if you've put the focus on layer 2 by clicking on the 2 in the lower left of the screen before assigning the dynamic? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
On Aug 27, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: the new expression design, which I find not to be without its problems. Some things work fine, but this does not, and there are issues with linked parts and the fact that you can't assign a dynamic to a note in layer two and have it position itself in relation to that note. (Down stem bass drum notes in drum set parts, for instance.) Chuck Yes, this is a huge pain. When I assign a dynamic to a tuba part alone in Layer 1, the dynamic moves downward nicely. As soon as I have the same tuba part in Layer 2 with bass trombone in Layer 1 above it, the dynamic seems only to take the Layer 1 notes into account. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
On 27-Aug-08, at 27-Aug-08 5:36 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: On Aug 27, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote: Ah, but the ONLY thing that doesn't get copied across is the smart shape. Any staff expression comes out in all the exploded parts, as does any accent, staccato, or any articulation assigned to the original chord. So the single instance theory seems to me to be applied in an inconsistent manner and is not at all logical to the idea of "explode" to parts. Also, I seem to remember that a few versions (years) back the hairpins and other smart shapes DID get transferred on explode, maybe others can remember? I'll open up a few older versions to see if I can put my finger on the exact one. That's what I remember too, rightly or not. I think the new behavior is related to the new expression design, which I find not to be without its problems. Some things work fine, but this does not, and there are issues with linked parts and the fact that you can't assign a dynamic to a note in layer two and have it position itself in relation to that note. (Down stem bass drum notes in drum set parts, for instance.) Chuck Hmm, I don't remember that. Maybe it was before Smart hairpins? I only ever had it working in TG Tools. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
Jonathan Smith wrote: Ah, but the ONLY thing that doesn't get copied across is the smart shape. Any staff expression comes out in all the exploded parts, as does any accent, staccato, or any articulation assigned to the original chord. So the single instance theory seems to me to be applied in an inconsistent manner and is not at all logical to the idea of "explode" to parts. Also, I seem to remember that a few versions (years) back the hairpins and other smart shapes DID get transferred on explode, maybe others can remember? I'll open up a few older versions to see if I can put my finger on the exact one. Jonathan When you explode, there is only a single instance of each hairpin and expression, so to end up with one on each new staff means that the developers need to create more instances of those hairpins and expressions. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale There goes my theory. :-) then we can chalk it up to less-than-adequate-time-to-get-things-right and blame the stupid accountants who run MakeMusic. I know the development team can get everything correct, if the stupid bean-counters would take them off this vicious "get-it-out-the-door-each-year-despite-any-bugs" mentality and get them on the "get-it-right-and-then-we'll-sell-it" mentality. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
On Aug 27, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Jonathan Smith wrote: Ah, but the ONLY thing that doesn't get copied across is the smart shape. Any staff expression comes out in all the exploded parts, as does any accent, staccato, or any articulation assigned to the original chord. So the single instance theory seems to me to be applied in an inconsistent manner and is not at all logical to the idea of "explode" to parts. Also, I seem to remember that a few versions (years) back the hairpins and other smart shapes DID get transferred on explode, maybe others can remember? I'll open up a few older versions to see if I can put my finger on the exact one. That's what I remember too, rightly or not. I think the new behavior is related to the new expression design, which I find not to be without its problems. Some things work fine, but this does not, and there are issues with linked parts and the fact that you can't assign a dynamic to a note in layer two and have it position itself in relation to that note. (Down stem bass drum notes in drum set parts, for instance.) Chuck Jonathan When you explode, there is only a single instance of each hairpin and expression, so to end up with one on each new staff means that the developers need to create more instances of those hairpins and expressions. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
Ah, but the ONLY thing that doesn't get copied across is the smart shape. Any staff expression comes out in all the exploded parts, as does any accent, staccato, or any articulation assigned to the original chord. So the single instance theory seems to me to be applied in an inconsistent manner and is not at all logical to the idea of "explode" to parts. Also, I seem to remember that a few versions (years) back the hairpins and other smart shapes DID get transferred on explode, maybe others can remember? I'll open up a few older versions to see if I can put my finger on the exact one. Jonathan When you explode, there is only a single instance of each hairpin and expression, so to end up with one on each new staff means that the developers need to create more instances of those hairpins and expressions. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
Jonathan Smith wrote: Oh no! I was really hoping that this would have been improved in 2009. I have 2009 but haven't installed yet as I'm in the middle of a big project, I was also going to wait for the first tech. upgrade based on my experiences of previous upgrades. I must start to use TG tools if it copies across the hairpins, something I have never understood why the explode metatool never covered- I mean, isn't it plainly obvious that 99% of users would want all expressions etc to go with the explosion into the separate parts? The ironic thing that is that if you choose to IMPLODE multi parts you get multiple expressions and hairpins in the target part - again, exactly what you don't want in this case, but it proves that they could easily program these things in if a little thought was to go into it. [snip] While I agree with your assessment of the need for haripins and expressions to copy when we explode one staff to multiple staves and that we don't need multiple hairpins and expressions when we implode, I have to say that your logic about the developers' ability to program stuff doesn't hold up. When you have multiple staves, each with their own hairpins and expressions, those things get copied with the notes when the notes get copied (along with the music from other staves) onto a single staff when we Implode. The programmers don't create those multiple instances, they're already in the data. When you explode, there is only a single instance of each hairpin and expression, so to end up with one on each new staff means that the developers need to create more instances of those hairpins and expressions. It's not that they did the programming when they shouldn't have and they didn't do it when they should have, it's simply a matter of the Implode and Explode functions copy all the data available, plain and simple. So the programmers will need to come up with a subroutine which duplicates the hairpins and expressions to equal the number of separate staves which will be created by the Explode function. Definitely needed, but I don't think it's an easy thing to do. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
Oh no! I was really hoping that this would have been improved in 2009. I have 2009 but haven't installed yet as I'm in the middle of a big project, I was also going to wait for the first tech. upgrade based on my experiences of previous upgrades. I must start to use TG tools if it copies across the hairpins, something I have never understood why the explode metatool never covered- I mean, isn't it plainly obvious that 99% of users would want all expressions etc to go with the explosion into the separate parts? The ironic thing that is that if you choose to IMPLODE multi parts you get multiple expressions and hairpins in the target part - again, exactly what you don't want in this case, but it proves that they could easily program these things in if a little thought was to go into it. There must be a lot of people who use the explode facility, and it's something which a first timer would always demand from a chord based or piano reduction - so why can't this be perfected, even advanced to work a bit like the mass mover filter/choices? Jonathan Hi Chuck, This is indeed the new behaviour, though I doubt it is a bug. It's just a stupid change that they probably enacted knowingly with the new expressions, but without checking who needed it first. I liked being able to put all my dynamics, articulations, slurs and hairpins in before exploding. In TG Tools Smart Explosion it even copies the hairpins. Now if I use Finale's explode function, I will have to copy Smart Hairpins as before, but now I have to add Expressions. Christopher On 22-Aug-08, at 22-Aug-08 10:14 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Can anyone confirm a bug in which exploding one staff to multiple staves no longer explodes expressions (dynamics) along with the notes? I want to make sure this bug is real before reporting it. Thanks, Chuck ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
Ugh! Chuck Sent from my iPhone On Aug 22, 2008, at 8:31 PM, Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: Hi Chuck, This is indeed the new behaviour, though I doubt it is a bug. It's just a stupid change that they probably enacted knowingly with the new expressions, but without checking who needed it first. I liked being able to put all my dynamics, articulations, slurs and hairpins in before exploding. In TG Tools Smart Explosion it even copies the hairpins. Now if I use Finale's explode function, I will have to copy Smart Hairpins as before, but now I have to add Expressions. Christopher On 22-Aug-08, at 22-Aug-08 10:14 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Can anyone confirm a bug in which exploding one staff to multiple staves no longer explodes expressions (dynamics) along with the notes? I want to make sure this bug is real before reporting it. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] exploding bug in 2009
Hi Chuck, This is indeed the new behaviour, though I doubt it is a bug. It's just a stupid change that they probably enacted knowingly with the new expressions, but without checking who needed it first. I liked being able to put all my dynamics, articulations, slurs and hairpins in before exploding. In TG Tools Smart Explosion it even copies the hairpins. Now if I use Finale's explode function, I will have to copy Smart Hairpins as before, but now I have to add Expressions. Christopher On 22-Aug-08, at 22-Aug-08 10:14 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: Can anyone confirm a bug in which exploding one staff to multiple staves no longer explodes expressions (dynamics) along with the notes? I want to make sure this bug is real before reporting it. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
