Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
16.05.2016 8:26, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > I suggest to drop support for VS versions 8.0 and 9.0 in the master > branch. VS 10, 12/13 and 14/15 will still be supported. I suggest to drop VS 2010 as well. Four versions is enough, IMHO. -- WBR, SD. -- Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched! https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
All, I suggest to drop support for VS versions 8.0 and 9.0 in the master branch. VS 10, 12/13 and 14/15 will still be supported. Dmitry -- Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched! https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 2/29/2016 2:19 AM, Michal Kubecek wrote: . Question: Does this problem would also affect the compiled client library? Or do you guys also think nobody using Win XP/2003 will needs to connect to Firebird? First, the discussion is about a version which, extrapolating from previous release dates, is not likely to be released before 2020. Second, IIUC, you should still be able to connect to a 4.0 server with 3.0 client library. That said, using a different compiler for server and client sounds like asking for trouble to me. (On the other hand, the most recent Windows IDE I have experience with is Borland C++ Builder 6 so you don't have to take me too seriously.) I'm not at all sure that having "official" Firebird compilers is that good of an idea. The basic principle is that the code should work on a wide variety of compilers. My experience has always been that if an unfamiliar compiler produces errors, warning, or unexpected results, the probably has almost always been with the code, not the compiler, usually a latent bug prepared to expose itself later. With an official compiler, the temptation will always be to write off an unexpected results from an "unofficial" compiler as an aberration. The primary question is always which platforms to support. If the project chooses to support a platform, the code should compile on whatever had been the generally accepted compilers when that platform was active. There is often a drive to use every possible C++ feature (and Firebird has this problem in spaces), and the availability of new C++ language features and compilers to support them, but the desire to use new language features should not dictate which platforms or compilers to use. Yes, there are cases where this can be painful. Sun's refusal to support function prototypes required substantial (and ugly) workarounds, but the value of function prototypes on most platforms made the cost acceptable. There are many, many fewer platforms now than in the past. At one point, Interbase was supporting 19 more or less incompatible Unixes as every dying computer company tried to establish their own definitive balance between System V and BSD (and the introduction of Posix made everything much worse). -- Jim Starkey -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
Em 01/03/2016 15:03, Jim Starkey escreveu: > > What I would like is for the memory allocator to initialize everything > to zero/null/false like Java and my original memory pools. Why waste > the code to manually initialize everything with the risk of missing > something when it could easily be centralized. But C++ semantics what > they are, it would make classes ultra-non-portable. > > I've used smart pointers a number of times and have a pair of smart > point templates in my set of base classes, but I've found them to next > to useless. Functions don't need them and a conditional call to release > in a destructor is no big deal. Well, I think if your next sentences are important, you should re-send them in another context. I stopped reading here. :D I think it's fine if _you want to limit yourself in your projects_ to the C++ features you found comfortable... Adriano -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 3/1/2016 11:29 AM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 01.03.2016 17:14, Jim Starkey wrote: >> The "error prone" argument gets tossed around a lot, but I generally >> don't buy it. Language features are not a substitute for testing. Sure, >> "override" will get a compiler error if you blow an overriding method >> prototype, but so will cursory testing. The argument makes more sense >> in a rapid agile development environment, but much less so in a 30 year >> old database system. > Imagine situation that you added a new member to a class. Now, with VS > 2010 you have to > visit every constructor of this class and add initialization of this member. > Doable? Sure. > Can you miss one constructor of half of dozen? Possible. Probability that > this subtle bug > will be noticed by tests? Very low. > Another example right from our codebase: dumb pointers were replaced by > smart pointers > which implements auto cast to a dump pointer for backward compatibility. > Fine, but now > some statements like "if (ptr)" act as "if (true)", because now they test not > pointer but > the envelope itself. And compiler is silent about this. > Copy constructors that aren't explicitly deleted also can make you busy. > In my life I wasted enough time debugging to strongly believe that simple > code is the best. > First, if you have so many constructors that you can't keep track of them, you're creating class spaghetti, and making this easier to do isn't doing you a service. Second, have you ever considered breaking out common initialization code into a separate init function? I agree that being able to call one constructor from another a la Java is a plus, but is it worth writing off platforms without compilers that don't support that feature? What I would like is for the memory allocator to initialize everything to zero/null/false like Java and my original memory pools. Why waste the code to manually initialize everything with the risk of missing something when it could easily be centralized. But C++ semantics what they are, it would make classes ultra-non-portable. I've used smart pointers a number of times and have a pair of smart point templates in my set of base classes, but I've found them to next to useless. Functions don't need them and a conditional call to release in a destructor is no big deal. The one case where they might be useful -- releasing resources on block exit -- is almost always better handled by a local instance with a destructor for cleanup. Unless sparingly used, smart pointers bloat up and slow down the code with unnecessary addRef and releases, but if sparingly used, you run the risk of running into the problem they are intended to solve. Copy constructors are mostly useful for wrappers around other things. I think the only two I have in Amorphous are the String class (wrapper around a managed character string) and a BigInt wrapper around an MPIR number. Well worth the effort to debug. The point is, way to often people go looking for excuses to try out new features and end up with worse code for it. The cardinal sin in C++ is over generalization -- trying to make the ultimate XYZ class that lays track, gathers eggs, and consoles old people. A more effective approach is to build the minimal class that addresses the problem at hand, extending it when necessary, but not before. Oh, and const correctness, the most anti-OO false religion in computingdom. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
01.03.2016 17:14, Jim Starkey wrote: > The "error prone" argument gets tossed around a lot, but I generally > don't buy it. Language features are not a substitute for testing. Sure, > "override" will get a compiler error if you blow an overriding method > prototype, but so will cursory testing. The argument makes more sense > in a rapid agile development environment, but much less so in a 30 year > old database system. Imagine situation that you added a new member to a class. Now, with VS 2010 you have to visit every constructor of this class and add initialization of this member. Doable? Sure. Can you miss one constructor of half of dozen? Possible. Probability that this subtle bug will be noticed by tests? Very low. Another example right from our codebase: dumb pointers were replaced by smart pointers which implements auto cast to a dump pointer for backward compatibility. Fine, but now some statements like "if (ptr)" act as "if (true)", because now they test not pointer but the envelope itself. And compiler is silent about this. Copy constructors that aren't explicitly deleted also can make you busy. In my life I wasted enough time debugging to strongly believe that simple code is the best. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 2016-03-01 17:03, Jim Starkey wrote: > On 3/1/2016 10:27 AM, Egor Pugin wrote: >>> Personally, I'm sticking with Visual Studio 2010 until I find a >>> compelling reason to pay Microsoft big bucks to upgrade. >> VS2015 Community (and probably VS2013 Comm.) is free for open source >> development. And since we're talking about firebird - no fees >> required >> to use it. > > Maybe it's changed, but the freebie versions tend not to support MFC, > which I need for historical reasons. That was Visual Studio Express, Visual Studio Community is equivalent to Visual Studio Professional with the exception of some TFS support iirc. Mark -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 3/1/2016 10:21 AM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 01.03.2016 16:14, Jim Starkey wrote: >>Dropping support for platforms so you can use new C++ >> features that really don't add anything to the language. > More readable and error-prone code worth that, IMHO. > More readable is a virtue, though I dare say eliminating the thousands of casts in favor of simple type safety would do a great deal more for code readability than a little more syntactic sugar. The "error prone" argument gets tossed around a lot, but I generally don't buy it. Language features are not a substitute for testing. Sure, "override" will get a compiler error if you blow an overriding method prototype, but so will cursory testing. The argument makes more sense in a rapid agile development environment, but much less so in a 30 year old database system. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 3/1/2016 11:10 AM, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > Maybe it's changed, but the freebie versions tend not to support MFC, > which I need for historical reasons. > That was Visual Studio Express, Visual Studio Community is equivalent > to Visual Studio Professional with the exception of some TFS support > iirc. > > Thanks. I didn't know that. But I think I can contain my excitement. But how about that Raspberry Pi 3... -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 3/1/2016 10:27 AM, Egor Pugin wrote: >> Personally, I'm sticking with Visual Studio 2010 until I find a compelling >> reason to pay Microsoft big bucks to upgrade. > VS2015 Community (and probably VS2013 Comm.) is free for open source > development. And since we're talking about firebird - no fees required > to use it. Maybe it's changed, but the freebie versions tend not to support MFC, which I need for historical reasons. > On 1 March 2016 at 18:21, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >> 01.03.2016 16:14, Jim Starkey wrote: >>>Dropping support for platforms so you can use new C++ >>> features that really don't add anything to the language. >> More readable and error-prone code worth that, IMHO. >> >> -- >> WBR, SD. >> >> -- >> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance >> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month >> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now >> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! >> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 >> Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel > > -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 2016-03-01 16:27, Egor Pugin wrote: >> Personally, I'm sticking with Visual Studio 2010 until I find a >> compelling reason to pay Microsoft big bucks to upgrade. > > VS2015 Community (and probably VS2013 Comm.) is free for open source > development. And since we're talking about firebird - no fees > required > to use it. Visual Studio Community is even free for commercial development with a number of restrictions. You are not allowed to use more than five instances for commercial purposes if you are a small company: "An unlimited number of users within an organization can use Visual Studio Community for the following scenarios: in a classroom learning environment, for academic research, or for contributing to open source projects. For all other usage scenarios: In non-enterprise organizations, up to five users can use Visual Studio Community. In enterprise organizations (meaning those with >250 PCs or >$1 Million US Dollars in annual revenue), no use is permitted beyond the open source, academic research, and classroom learning environment scenarios described above." (from: https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx) Mark -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
> Personally, I'm sticking with Visual Studio 2010 until I find a compelling > reason to pay Microsoft big bucks to upgrade. VS2015 Community (and probably VS2013 Comm.) is free for open source development. And since we're talking about firebird - no fees required to use it. On 1 March 2016 at 18:21, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 01.03.2016 16:14, Jim Starkey wrote: >> Dropping support for platforms so you can use new C++ >> features that really don't add anything to the language. > >More readable and error-prone code worth that, IMHO. > > -- >WBR, SD. > > -- > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Egor Pugin -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
01.03.2016 16:14, Jim Starkey wrote: > Dropping support for platforms so you can use new C++ > features that really don't add anything to the language. More readable and error-prone code worth that, IMHO. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 3/1/2016 8:38 AM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 01.03.2016 14:20, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: >> They may be maintained by someone else. We don't require our sources to >> be built using VS 2013 exclusively. > Yes, but VS 2010 doesn't support member initialization on declaration > (very handy > thing), named member initialization, defaulted, deleted and explicit > operators (must have > for safe bool paradigm). I'm not even sure that it supports "override" > keyword. > I, personally, like standard atomic template as well (standard mutexes > and threads are > crap, but can unify code between platform). > Using any of these handy thing will make Fireird not compileable with VS > 2010. That's an excellent reason for not making VS 2013 an "official" compiler. Dropping support for platforms so you can use new C++ features that really don't add anything to the language. Both Visual Studio and gcc support atomic intrinsics. They're different, of course, but the difference is trivially papered over with differentially defined macros. C++ needs fewer and better thought out features, not more features. Things like override, like pennies, aren't worth bending over to pick up. Java is a vastly better language than c++ for application programming. C++, however, is superb for things like, say, implementing database systems. But we don't need the stuff that C++ is adding to play catch up with Java, and we certainly don't need the warts they're applying to fix earlier warts. Personally, I'm sticking with Visual Studio 2010 until I find a compelling reason to pay Microsoft big bucks to upgrade. > -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 03/01/2016 05:58 PM, Egor Pugin wrote: >> If we manage to get rid of autotools usage, things will get even more simple. > But what about VS? .bat files? Projects for every version? I see in > svn how devs commit missing files to rarely used VS projects. > That's not cool and not productive. I agree that adding of single file should not require a number of more or less similar changes in a lot of project files. But windows port maintainers should decide it. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
01.03.2016 16:01, Alex Peshkoff wrote: > Yes, avoiding use of autotools might be useful. The method used by it > for any checks called 'try to compile a program' fails in some cases > (for example on MacOS some functions compile and link, but always return > "not implemented" errno) and causes a lot of troubles for cross-platform > builds. I believe that now, when posix OSes become more standard and GCC has much wider set of predefined macros than 15 years ago, most of checks are redundant and the rest can be done by gmake and CPP itself. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 03/01/2016 05:47 PM, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 01.03.2016 15:21, Egor Pugin wrote: >> Maintaining different build systems (makefiles + VS projects for >> several versions) is not worth it. > Currently makefiles don't need maintaining: all changes in sources are > accepted > automatically. Except adding new directories - but that is not too frequent op ;) > And it saving people from getting and installing of third-party cmake. > If we manage to get rid of autotools usage, things will get even more > simple. > Yes, avoiding use of autotools might be useful. The method used by it for any checks called 'try to compile a program' fails in some cases (for example on MacOS some functions compile and link, but always return "not implemented" errno) and causes a lot of troubles for cross-platform builds. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
> Currently makefiles don't need maintaining: all changes in sources are > accepted automatically. And so as with cmake. > And it saving people from getting and installing of third-party cmake. Not a big deal for developer or package maintainer to install a dev tool. Or is it such a pain? > If we manage to get rid of autotools usage, things will get even more simple. But what about VS? .bat files? Projects for every version? I see in svn how devs commit missing files to rarely used VS projects. That's not cool and not productive. On 1 March 2016 at 17:47, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 01.03.2016 15:21, Egor Pugin wrote: >> Maintaining different build systems (makefiles + VS projects for >> several versions) is not worth it. > >Currently makefiles don't need maintaining: all changes in sources are > accepted > automatically. And it saving people from getting and installing of > third-party cmake. >If we manage to get rid of autotools usage, things will get even more > simple. > > -- >WBR, SD. > > -- > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Egor Pugin -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
01.03.2016 15:21, Egor Pugin wrote: > Maintaining different build systems (makefiles + VS projects for > several versions) is not worth it. Currently makefiles don't need maintaining: all changes in sources are accepted automatically. And it saving people from getting and installing of third-party cmake. If we manage to get rid of autotools usage, things will get even more simple. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
01.03.2016 14:20, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > They may be maintained by someone else. We don't require our sources to > be built using VS 2013 exclusively. Yes, but VS 2010 doesn't support member initialization on declaration (very handy thing), named member initialization, defaulted, deleted and explicit operators (must have for safe bool paradigm). I'm not even sure that it supports "override" keyword. I, personally, like standard atomic template as well (standard mutexes and threads are crap, but can unify code between platform). Using any of these handy thing will make Fireird not compileable with VS 2010. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
I'm not saying opposite. Use IDE, but do project configuration using text files (in any editor or IDE) and not using IDE features like drag-n-gropping files from disk to project or solution dirs. On 1 March 2016 at 17:28, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 01.03.2016 15:21, Egor Pugin wrote: >> You (fb devs) should consider higher level build system (CMake) that >> can generate all stuff for you. > >Build system cannot substitute IDE. > > -- >WBR, SD. > > -- > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Egor Pugin -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
01.03.2016 15:21, Egor Pugin wrote: > You (fb devs) should consider higher level build system (CMake) that > can generate all stuff for you. Build system cannot substitute IDE. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
You (fb devs) should consider higher level build system (CMake) that can generate all stuff for you. It can generate projects for any VS version. See https://cmake.org/cmake/help/v3.5/manual/cmake-generators.7.html#visual-studio-generators Maintaining different build systems (makefiles + VS projects for several versions) is not worth it. And other big projects confirm that cmake is suitable for use. (LLVM completely removed their autotools buils system and now it's cmake only.) > For example, if I add a new module to sources, I'll have to include it into > project for > official compiler. Changing of non-official projects/makefiles are up to > their maintainers. With cmake developer adds source file to cmake conf file and get it building on any toolchain he uses. Or even with globbing expressions (regex) files are added automatically when you put them in correct folder. On 1 March 2016 at 16:20, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > 01.03.2016 16:08, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > >> So, is usage of VS 2013 as a main build for Windows decided? >> If so, I'd suggest to delete VS 2010 and lesser projects from build dir. > > They may be maintained by someone else. We don't require our sources to > be built using VS 2013 exclusively. > > That said, I'd agree with removing VS 7.1 (contributed by RedSoft but > outdated for a while) and maybe VS 8/9 projects (if nobody here > objects). I'd keep the VS 2010 support though. > > > Dmitry > > > -- > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Egor Pugin -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
01.03.2016 16:08, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > So, is usage of VS 2013 as a main build for Windows decided? > If so, I'd suggest to delete VS 2010 and lesser projects from build dir. They may be maintained by someone else. We don't require our sources to be built using VS 2013 exclusively. That said, I'd agree with removing VS 7.1 (contributed by RedSoft but outdated for a while) and maybe VS 8/9 projects (if nobody here objects). I'd keep the VS 2010 support though. Dmitry -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
29.02.2016 20:56, Michal Kubecek wrote: > You (and not only you) are mixing two very different questions: > >(1) what compiler should be used to build the official binaries >provided for download on project web >(2) what compilers should be the code compatible with These questions aren't so different because a) Every commit must be compatible with official compiler. I.e. developers must not use any construction that official compiler cannot compile. b) Changes in build should be done for official toolset primarily and others if possible. For example, if I add a new module to sources, I'll have to include it into project for official compiler. Changing of non-official projects/makefiles are up to their maintainers. So, is usage of VS 2013 as a main build for Windows decided? If so, I'd suggest to delete VS 2010 and lesser projects from build dir. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:38:16AM -0500, Jim Starkey wrote: > I'm not at all sure that having "official" Firebird compilers is that > good of an idea. > > The basic principle is that the code should work on a wide variety of > compilers. You (and not only you) are mixing two very different questions: (1) what compiler should be used to build the official binaries provided for download on project web (2) what compilers should be the code compatible with The discussion started with question (1) (and that only for one platform) but some people started mixing in (2). We can build our official windows binaries with whatever latest and greatest MSVC version we choose and still have code compatible with older versions. If we decided to use c++11 or even c++14 specific language (or standard library) features, that would be a completely different situation, of course. But that's not what this discussion is about. > My experience has always been that if an unfamiliar compiler > produces errors, warning, or unexpected results, the probably has almost > always been with the code, not the compiler, usually a latent bug > prepared to expose itself later. FB3 code already does not compile with gcc version present in some actively maintained linux distributions. But it's compiler's fault so while it means some extra work for me, I fully agree with the decision not to work around this problem in the upstream codebase and let distribution packagers add the workaround where needed. > With an official compiler, the > temptation will always be to write off an unexpected results from an > "unofficial" compiler as an aberration. Perhaps I'm too optimistic but I believe the need to build the codebase with different toolchains on several different platforms does prevent this risk. After all, there were already examples of problems revealed by new versions of gcc or clang. > And no, it is perfectly reasonable for the client and the server to run > on different platforms, which makes the question whether the server and > client should use the same compiler meaningless. A clarification is needed here, obviously. I wasn't talking about client and server talking to each other via TCP. What I was replying to was the idea of building the official client library and server binaries intended to be used together on one system with two different compilers. Michal Kubecek -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
>> Anyway, my point is just to show that those 2 systems can still be >> widely used in some parts of the world, and this should be taken into >> the math when taking any decision. JČ> Just out of curiosity. Are these systems going to be upgraded to JČ> Firebird 4? You need to ask the Oracle :) []s Carlos http://www.firebirdnews.org FireBase - http://www.FireBase.com.br -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 2016-02-29 13:02, Carlos H. Cantu wrote: > MR> Let me make my position clear: I don't see the need to support a > 14 > MR> year old OS that has had no updates (including security updates) > since > MR> April 2014. If you're in business with such systems, you are > operating > MR> irresponsibly and I see no need to support such behavior. Also if > you > MR> are using such outdated systems, how likely is that you update to > a > MR> newer Firebird version; I think that is unlikely, so again why > would we > MR> need or want to support that. > > When you say "you", I hope you are referring the message reader, and > not myself, I was using the indefinite you to refer to "people still using XP". Mark -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 2/29/2016 2:19 AM, Michal Kubecek wrote: > . > > Question: Does this problem would also affect the compiled client > library? Or do you guys also think nobody using Win XP/2003 will needs > to connect to Firebird? > First, the discussion is about a version which, extrapolating from > previous release dates, is not likely to be released before 2020. > Second, IIUC, you should still be able to connect to a 4.0 server with > 3.0 client library. > > That said, using a different compiler for server and client sounds like > asking for trouble to me. (On the other hand, the most recent Windows > IDE I have experience with is Borland C++ Builder 6 so you don't have > to take me too seriously.) > > I'm not at all sure that having "official" Firebird compilers is that good of an idea. The basic principle is that the code should work on a wide variety of compilers. My experience has always been that if an unfamiliar compiler produces errors, warning, or unexpected results, the probably has almost always been with the code, not the compiler, usually a latent bug prepared to expose itself later. With an official compiler, the temptation will always be to write off an unexpected results from an "unofficial" compiler as an aberration. The primary question is always which platforms to support. If the project chooses to support a platform, the code should compile on whatever had been the generally accepted compilers when that platform was active. There is often a drive to use every possible C++ feature (and Firebird has this problem in spaces), and the availability of new C++ language features and compilers to support them, but the desire to use new language features should not dictate which platforms or compilers to use. Yes, there are cases where this can be painful. Sun's refusal to support function prototypes required substantial (and ugly) workarounds, but the value of function prototypes on most platforms made the cost acceptable. There are many, many fewer platforms now than in the past. At one point, Interbase was supporting 19 more or less incompatible Unixes as every dying computer company tried to establish their own definitive balance between System V and BSD (and the introduction of Posix made everything much worse). But we coped. Using a variety of compilers, even old compilers will make the code base and the project stronger. And no, it is perfectly reasonable for the client and the server to run on different platforms, which makes the question whether the server and client should use the same compiler meaningless. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
> About outdated, insecure environments, you have no idea about what you > can find here, and I will not even speak about this :D > > Anyway, my point is just to show that those 2 systems can still be > widely used in some parts of the world, and this should be taken into > the math when taking any decision. Just out of curiosity. Are these systems going to be upgraded to Firebird 4? -- Mgr. Jiří Činčura Independent IT Specialist -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
MR> Let me make my position clear: I don't see the need to support a 14 MR> year old OS that has had no updates (including security updates) since MR> April 2014. If you're in business with such systems, you are operating MR> irresponsibly and I see no need to support such behavior. Also if you MR> are using such outdated systems, how likely is that you update to a MR> newer Firebird version; I think that is unlikely, so again why would we MR> need or want to support that. When you say "you", I hope you are referring the message reader, and not myself, since I don't use XP or Win2003, but I have a Firebird dedicated portal with +72.000 registered people and I can assure you that those 2 systems are still being used in Brazil (who, btw, has the biggest Firebird user base in the world). So, I'm here just to show the scenario, not to fight for my personal needs (specially when they do not apply in this case). About outdated, insecure environments, you have no idea about what you can find here, and I will not even speak about this :D Anyway, my point is just to show that those 2 systems can still be widely used in some parts of the world, and this should be taken into the math when taking any decision. []s Carlos http://www.firebirdnews.org FireBase - http://www.FireBase.com.br -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
> Let me make my position clear: I don't see the need to support a 14 > year old OS that has had no updates (including security updates) since > April 2014. If you're in business with such systems, you are operating > irresponsibly and I see no need to support such behavior. Also if you > are using such outdated systems, how likely is that you update to a > newer Firebird version; I think that is unlikely, so again why would we > need or want to support that. > > And as long as the Firebird 3 or earlier fbclient.dll / libfbclient.so > can be used with Firebird 4, then you can still use those systems as > clients, without encumbering the project. Or if you really want to run on that platform, you can pay for it. Simple as that. Burning our resources on this is just not worth it, IMHO. -- Mgr. Jiří Činčura Independent IT Specialist -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 2016-02-29 1:25, Carlos H. Cantu wrote: >>> However, I seriously question the need to support Windows XP and >>> Windows Server 2003 for Firebird 4. > > LS> I completely agree! > LS> There comes a time when some OSs/installs need to be recognized > as *legacy*. > LS> Systems based on those platforms need to recognize that they > LS> can't be running the latest/greatest software. In the FB case, > v3 > LS> will still run on/be supported for those platforms for several > more years. > LS> Sean > > > Afaiu, there is a problem with some specific version of MSVC that > generate code that doesn't work on WinXP/2003 so, you guys are now > talking about dropping support to such Windows versions, so this > compiler could be used. > > Question: Does this problem would also affect the compiled client > library? Or do you guys also think nobody using Win XP/2003 will > needs > to connect to Firebird? Let me make my position clear: I don't see the need to support a 14 year old OS that has had no updates (including security updates) since April 2014. If you're in business with such systems, you are operating irresponsibly and I see no need to support such behavior. Also if you are using such outdated systems, how likely is that you update to a newer Firebird version; I think that is unlikely, so again why would we need or want to support that. And as long as the Firebird 3 or earlier fbclient.dll / libfbclient.so can be used with Firebird 4, then you can still use those systems as clients, without encumbering the project. Mark -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 28/02/16 18:19, Leyne, Sean wrote: > >> > However, I seriously question the need to support Windows XP and >> > Windows Server 2003 for Firebird 4. > I completely agree! > > There comes a time when some OSs/installs need to be recognized as *legacy*. > > Systems based on those platforms need to recognize that they can't > be running the latest/greatest software. > In the FB case, v3 will still run on/be supported for > those platforms for several more years. I do have to ask the more pertinent question ... will windows still be around in 10 years time? We have much the same discussion on other projects about making things compile on windows, where on other platforms it's simply a matter of keeping in sync with the libraries used. I have legacy windows code that was developed on Windows98 - talking to Interbase - and is still running today as long as I keep to 32bit versions of windows ... not for the SOFTWARE, but so I can still use the parallel port to control the hardware! Many of my client systems are however now mobile device based, and these are replacing windows desktop machines all over the place. Clients tend to be OS agnostic? We can keep legacy systems working simply because we do not necessarily need to upgrade. Heck I still have a couple of FB1.5 machines running because they do the job. So the question really is if an improvement relies on some change in the target OS is it worth the time spent, or will it detract from the same functions working across all OS's ? That M$ seems to break perfectly functional code at every compiler upgrade is the agro, and is there no way to mitigate that by some 'bc fix' file? -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
2016. 02. 28. 12:21 keltezéssel, Mark Rotteveel írta: > However, I seriously question the need to support Windows XP and Windows > Server 2003 for Firebird 4. I have no right to vote, but I think that Windows 7 SP1 / Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 perfectly reasonable minimum requirement. Gabor -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
>> I'm quite happy with VS 2013 Community Edition, but I never tried VS >> 2015 and I'm mostly on Linux during the last years. >> >> Vlad, do you have any preference? > > I used VS 2013 for a long time and still have no look at VS 2015. > So, VS 2012 definitely out of question ;) Hi All, Nice to hear, because if somebody want to contribute or just try to build can do it easily and freely with 2013 CE. For 4.0 please use the official compiler for snapshot builds too. If the official is 2013.5 build the snapshots with this version also. Gabor -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
>> There comes a time when some OSs/installs need to be recognized as *legacy*. > Such as Solaris, for example?.. Still alive and kicking I am afraid. Firebird 2.5 Compiles cleanly for Solaris and is in use. Paul -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 09:25:30PM -0300, Carlos H. Cantu wrote: > >> However, I seriously question the need to support Windows XP and > >> Windows Server 2003 for Firebird 4. > > LS> I completely agree! > LS> There comes a time when some OSs/installs need to be recognized as > *legacy*. > LS> Systems based on those platforms need to recognize that they > LS> can't be running the latest/greatest software. In the FB case, v3 > LS> will still run on/be supported for those platforms for several more years. > LS> Sean > > > Afaiu, there is a problem with some specific version of MSVC that > generate code that doesn't work on WinXP/2003 so, you guys are now > talking about dropping support to such Windows versions, so this > compiler could be used. > > Question: Does this problem would also affect the compiled client > library? Or do you guys also think nobody using Win XP/2003 will needs > to connect to Firebird? First, the discussion is about a version which, extrapolating from previous release dates, is not likely to be released before 2020. Second, IIUC, you should still be able to connect to a 4.0 server with 3.0 client library. That said, using a different compiler for server and client sounds like asking for trouble to me. (On the other hand, the most recent Windows IDE I have experience with is Borland C++ Builder 6 so you don't have to take me too seriously.) Michal Kubecek -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
>> However, I seriously question the need to support Windows XP and >> Windows Server 2003 for Firebird 4. LS> I completely agree! LS> There comes a time when some OSs/installs need to be recognized as *legacy*. LS> Systems based on those platforms need to recognize that they LS> can't be running the latest/greatest software. In the FB case, v3 LS> will still run on/be supported for those platforms for several more years. LS> Sean Afaiu, there is a problem with some specific version of MSVC that generate code that doesn't work on WinXP/2003 so, you guys are now talking about dropping support to such Windows versions, so this compiler could be used. Question: Does this problem would also affect the compiled client library? Or do you guys also think nobody using Win XP/2003 will needs to connect to Firebird? []s Carlos http://www.firebirdnews.org FireBase - http://www.FireBase.com.br -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
Looks like it does. See https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E37069_01/html/E37071/gndfg.html Mark - Bericht beantwoorden - Van: "Dimitry Sibiryakov" Aan: "For discussion among Firebird Developers" Onderwerp: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows Datum: zo, feb. 28, 2016 19:53 28.02.2016 19:27, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > Solaris is still being maintained by Oracle AFAIK. Yes, but do they have a compiler with C++11 support there? -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel-- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 19:27, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > Solaris is still being maintained by Oracle AFAIK. Yes, but do they have a compiler with C++11 support there? -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
Solaris is still being maintained by Oracle AFAIK. Mark - Bericht beantwoorden - Van: "Dimitry Sibiryakov" Aan: "For discussion among Firebird Developers" Onderwerp: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows Datum: zo, feb. 28, 2016 19:24 28.02.2016 19:19, Leyne, Sean wrote: > There comes a time when some OSs/installs need to be recognized as *legacy*. Such as Solaris, for example?.. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel-- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 19:19, Leyne, Sean wrote: > There comes a time when some OSs/installs need to be recognized as *legacy*. Such as Solaris, for example?.. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
> However, I seriously question the need to support Windows XP and > Windows Server 2003 for Firebird 4. I completely agree! There comes a time when some OSs/installs need to be recognized as *legacy*. Systems based on those platforms need to recognize that they can't be running the latest/greatest software. In the FB case, v3 will still run on/be supported for those platforms for several more years. Sean -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 12:47, Mark Rotteveel пишет: > On 28-2-2016 11:35, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: >> 28.02.2016 13:17, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: >> >>> 28.02.2016 11:05, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: It's not about VS 2015, but about C++14 in general >>> >>> Read some more. Problem is not standard, but VS 2015 code generator which >>> unconditionally generate SSE2 instructions. It drives old processors out of >>> picture. >>> GCC has no such problem. >> >> OK. Anyway, we already seem to settle on VS 2012, thanks to Vlad. > > I think Vlad said VS 2013. Yes, 2013 of course. Sorry for confusion ;) Regards, Vlad -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 12:18, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > As far as I know VS 2015 needs to be explicitly set to compile for > Windows XP. I wonder if it can be set to use GCC compiler instead... -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 28-2-2016 12:18, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
> On 28-2-2016 11:57, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote:
>> 28.02.2016 11:46, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
>>> And for us people who don't read russian?
>>
>> Google Translate?.. :)
>> In short: simple construction "BYTE buf[16] = {0};" crashes on WinXP
>> when is compiled
>> with VS 2015 but works with any other compiler.
>
> As far as I know VS 2015 needs to be explicitly set to compile for
> Windows XP.
See
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/34488549/targetting-windows-xp-from-visual-studio-2015-enterprise-update-1
and https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj851139.aspx
However, I seriously question the need to support Windows XP and Windows
Server 2003 for Firebird 4.
Mark
--
Mark Rotteveel
--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140
Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 28-2-2016 11:57, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote:
> 28.02.2016 11:46, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
>> And for us people who don't read russian?
>
> Google Translate?.. :)
> In short: simple construction "BYTE buf[16] = {0};" crashes on WinXP when
> is compiled
> with VS 2015 but works with any other compiler.
As far as I know VS 2015 needs to be explicitly set to compile for
Windows XP.
Mark
--
Mark Rotteveel
--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140
Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 11:46, Mark Rotteveel wrote:
> And for us people who don't read russian?
Google Translate?.. :)
In short: simple construction "BYTE buf[16] = {0};" crashes on WinXP when is
compiled
with VS 2015 but works with any other compiler.
--
WBR, SD.
--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140
Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 11:48, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > That link is for VS 2015. Comparison table there are. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 28-2-2016 11:17, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 28.02.2016 11:05, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: >> It's not about VS 2015, but about C++14 in general > > Read some more. Problem is not standard, but VS 2015 code generator which > unconditionally generate SSE2 instructions. It drives old processors out of > picture. > GCC has no such problem. > How many processors are still out there without SSE2, and how many of those would get an install for Firebird 4? SSE2 was introduced in 2000, and has - for example - been required for Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 28-2-2016 11:46, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 28.02.2016 11:35, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: >> Anyway, we already seem to settle on VS 2012, thanks to Vlad. > > He said that "VS 2012 is out of question" which ususaly means that it > must not be > considered at all. > I.e. he woted for VS 2013. BTW, I too because of > https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx > I particularly like ability to initialize on declaration for class > members. That link is for VS 2015. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 28-2-2016 11:35, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > 28.02.2016 13:17, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > >> 28.02.2016 11:05, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: >>> It's not about VS 2015, but about C++14 in general >> >> Read some more. Problem is not standard, but VS 2015 code generator which >> unconditionally generate SSE2 instructions. It drives old processors out of >> picture. >> GCC has no such problem. > > OK. Anyway, we already seem to settle on VS 2012, thanks to Vlad. I think Vlad said VS 2013. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
On 28-2-2016 10:44, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 28.02.2016 10:39, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: >> We need to choose between VS 2012/2013 and VS 2015 for FB4. > > Before voting for VS 2015 look at this: > http://www.sql.ru/forum/actualthread.aspx?tid=1200248 And for us people who don't read russian? Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 11:35, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > Anyway, we already seem to settle on VS 2012, thanks to Vlad. He said that "VS 2012 is out of question" which ususaly means that it must not be considered at all. I.e. he woted for VS 2013. BTW, I too because of https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx I particularly like ability to initialize on declaration for class members. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 13:17, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > 28.02.2016 11:05, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: >> It's not about VS 2015, but about C++14 in general > > Read some more. Problem is not standard, but VS 2015 code generator which > unconditionally generate SSE2 instructions. It drives old processors out of > picture. > GCC has no such problem. OK. Anyway, we already seem to settle on VS 2012, thanks to Vlad. Dmitry -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 11:05, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > It's not about VS 2015, but about C++14 in general Read some more. Problem is not standard, but VS 2015 code generator which unconditionally generate SSE2 instructions. It drives old processors out of picture. GCC has no such problem. -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 11:39, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > 10.12.2015 21:27, Mark Rotteveel wrote: > > [subject changed to follow the thread direction] > >> Maybe FB 4 should be based on VS 2015 instead of 2013. > > We need to choose between VS 2012/2013 and VS 2015 for FB4. > > I'm quite happy with VS 2013 Community Edition, but I never tried VS > 2015 and I'm mostly on Linux during the last years. > > Vlad, do you have any preference? I used VS 2013 for a long time and still have no look at VS 2015. So, VS 2012 definitely out of question ;) Regards, Vlad -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 12:44, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: > Before voting for VS 2015 look at this: > http://www.sql.ru/forum/actualthread.aspx?tid=1200248 It's not about VS 2015, but about C++14 in general, including recent GCC versions. We already know our code does not comply the new language specification. But we need to fix it some day anyway. Why not starting now? Out of curiosity, does VS 2015 have options to switch off the C++14 rules? I suppose there should be ones. Dmitry -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
28.02.2016 10:39, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: > We need to choose between VS 2012/2013 and VS 2015 for FB4. Before voting for VS 2015 look at this: http://www.sql.ru/forum/actualthread.aspx?tid=1200248 -- WBR, SD. -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Compiler for official Firebird 4 release on Windows
10.12.2015 21:27, Mark Rotteveel wrote: [subject changed to follow the thread direction] > Maybe FB 4 should be based on VS 2015 instead of 2013. We need to choose between VS 2012/2013 and VS 2015 for FB4. I'm quite happy with VS 2013 Community Edition, but I never tried VS 2015 and I'm mostly on Linux during the last years. Vlad, do you have any preference? Dmitry -- Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
