BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Disallowed submission from [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Oct 7 21:19:05 1998 Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by mailing-list.net (8.8.5) id VAA03896; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:19:04 -0600 (MDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from [EMAIL PROTECTED] by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 1ZSBa18748 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:17:56 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:17:56 EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Squirrel horribilia and new member introduction Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 58 All this worry over a fancy rat falling into the water trough. Better you should be glad the filthy thing wasn't rabid and you aren't burying one or more valuable Fjords for a dead rodent! With all the talk over what to put into the trough to prevent this, sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Merek
Re: Fjord Stuff
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Pat, My name is Laura Wich actually and her Daughters name is Abigail. If you want to see pictures of her look at http://www.norwegianfjordhorses.com/ , Her Grandson and Granddaughter are MH Tristan, and MH Ava. You can see alot of Anitra in them. The fellers, Greg, Carol , and Angela own Amy one of her other daughters , a grey. I understand Amy did her first show at woodstock this year and won in her driving class. They have a page as well with Amy on it, and they also own Hannah another daughter of Anitra, great horse , does side saddle and jumps well. Have fun, sounds like she will have a super home. Laura of Mink Hollow Ps. If you are there Fellers leave the web address for Pat to look.
Fjord Stuff
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks for the congrats Lindsey! Yes, Annie's registered name is BDF Anitra! It wonderful to know who owns one of Annie's offspring. After her horrific foaling experience this past Spring, she will not be bred again. She's retiring from the foaling business and getting into the Maggie and Pat business. She's been doing great with learning how to jump with Maggie and getting back into driving with me. She is a love and a real trustworthy lady like her daughter. This breed is terrific! I feel so lucky to be a part of the Fjord community. Pat McCurdy
RE: Fjord Training/Clicker List
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all, One way of getting submissiveness from your Fjord is to clicker train commands like Back (I ask for one step at a time, use a hand pushed into the chest muscles as the initial cue.), Head Up, Head Down, Step (step forward with one foot at a time), and Touch (touch a cone, or the end of a whip). These simple commands have been *very* useful. Head Up has stopped the tug-of-war when leading through grassy areas (doesn't help much if the grass is knee high though). I ask for the head up instead of jerking his head up. Haven't tried it from the saddle yet, but I bet it would help. Back is great to stop rushing through gates. Step and Touch are good for trailer loading practice. I had to use a chain lead when I first got Gunthar - now lead in a regular halter with few problems *as long as we keep practicing our obedience. Below are directions for subscribing to a new clicker list for horses: A clicker training list specifically for equines has been started. You can subscribe to this list by going to: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/clickryder It is a small list so far, about 30 subscribers, mostly lurkers waiting for Alexandra's book. We would love to have some folks who are using clicker training with their horses join up and share the information.
Squirrel horribilia and new member introduction
This message is from: Doug Knutsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message is from: Peg Knutsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Julia et all, Regarding the safety of Apple wood for rescuing wildlife from a horrible death at the hands of one's watering tub - it ain't necessarily so. We had our pasture inspected by a botanist friend who warned us that new apple shoots, especially suckers, are quite poisonous - I believe he said they contained cyanide. So we keep the pasture free of those as well as the apples. To Mike May: OK, OK, I'll come out of the lurking closet and introduce myself and herd. My husband Doug and I have begun breeding Fjords under the Knutsen Fjord Farm name. So far, that name is a little pretentious, as we are living on less than 5 acres, but soon we will be moving to Ellensburg - central Washington. [10 acres, new email address, Bed and Barn, etc] Our stock is from Anvil Acres: Anvil's Silka and her kids Rocky [stud colt so far], Pepper [weanling filly], and zygote in the oven - due next May. We are bumbling around learning the ropes, aided and abetted by our trainer Heidi whose alias in the Herald is Tinkerbell. Readers can follow this amusing process by reading the Midlife madness - setting up horsekeeping series in the Herald. We became interested in Fjords by encountering so many of them in lower BC. [Perhaps interested isn't quite accurate; maybe fascinated, smitten, obsessed, twitterpated...?] So far, we've been to Libby '97 and '98, two local local Fjord play days, Equitana '98, two PNFHPG meetings, the Eugene Evaluation clinic and Evaluation, and one NFHR meeting. Heidi has been working all along training our horses and us, but this process has been interrupted way too much by our other life. We are both in the process of becoming semi-retired - whatever that means I'm also doing the copy editing for Sally on the Herald [when I'm in town], so you can blame me for correcting your grammar or spelling - it's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it! Our goals? Learning more about everything. Will continue to breed, hoping to include some grey stock. Will keep developing competence in handling, riding, and caring for our Fjords. [A life-long process, I know, but time flies when you're having fun, right?] As soon as feasible, we want to learn to drive and pull. Are we nuts? Not sure, but we're meeting lots of wonderful folks and being exposed to many different, shall we say, points of view. And having a grand adventure. I'd love to hear from readers the one essential book to read while setting up horsekeeping. Also any comments anyone would be interested in sharing on my series in the Herald. I'm trying to shape up my writing skills as one way to support my horse habit in the future. Thanks for wading all the way through this introduction. I look forward to hearing from you all out there in cyber-Fjord land. Cheers, Peg
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #203
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] OPEN RESPONSE TO PRIVATE EMAIL SUBJECT: EVALUATION SCORES QUESTION: Since breeders have their horse evaluated in order to help them decide which horses to breed, what their strengths and weaknesses, are etc. Do you think there is a minimum score a horse should receive from the evaluation in order to be condidered for breeding. I know difficult question to answer since a horse may not receive a blue because it didn't have the best coloring or maybe not enough 'presence' but that same horse may overall be very sound. RESPONSE: Mary Thanks for the opportunity to respond to your question. I have taken the liberty to respond in an open email because I feel this is the type of information from which we can all learn and establish a better understanding of the evaluation process. First, it must be stated that the complete NFHR evaluation process, is not identical to evaluations for Fjords in Europe, nor warmbloods in the US and Europe. And, perhaps more importantly, the evaluation is not and was not intended to be a horse show. The multi-color ribbons tend to add that horse show flavor. Now, with that stated, let's look at another historical piece of the puzzle. I initially started working with the evaluation committee in 1991. I have received no salary compensation for this work. We were faced with two challenges. One, to create or see created a breed standard and two, to establish a North American evaluation process. A process that best suited the Fjord horse in North America and it's breeders. As a result, the process was broken into different categories with the foundation being the conformation/breed type evaluation. From there, the horse could demonstrate abilities and excellence in riding, driving, and draft. The Committee took the next step and diversified to English and Western, the choice of the breeder. Also, the Committee set up scores to attain and denoted different levels of competencies through achievement awards. The ultimate concept was intended to provide breeders information on the horse. For example, an owner of a stallion being offered at stud could provide a mare owner with information to prospective mare owners. The stallion owner could provide the conformation/type scores and the performance scores. Singularly, the scores may not have much meaning to the mare owner, but together, the conformation/type and performance scores reveal a more complete picture of the stallion. More importantly, the mare owner could ask, What scores has the stallion's offspring receive in conformation/type and performance? Then, you know what the stallion has been producing and whether to breed to the stallion. Or, a mare owner might ask, What scores did the stallion receive in a specific area, such as head and neck? The mare owner may lbe ooking for a stallion to improve the quality of the mare's neck. This could be used for all other aspects of the evaluation. If you were looking for a driving horse and the stallion did not complete or receive satisfactory scores in driving, then the message to the mare owner should be clear, STOP look for another stallion. More specifically to your question, I would be very surprised if a horse did not receive a blue by the lack of satisfactory scores in color, markings and presence. Yet, a horse could receive low scores in these areas. We as evaluators have been asked to assess the quality and quantity of color and markings and quantify the horse's presence. If you will look at the score sheet, color and markings are under the heading of Overall and presence are under the heading of Type. Collectively, each of these items present the evaluator with the question, does this horse have the characteristic traits and attitude of a Fjord? Further, when you look at the headings you will note each has a total score. The sub-headings such as color, markings and presence do not require a score only a plus or minus. Thus, individually these areas are observed and remarked upon but they are one of several factors that contribute to the total score for the specific heading. You ask about the total conformation/type scores. Yes, the total overall scores do reflect information. If a mare receives a score below 50 do you want to own and breed to her? If a stallion receives a score below 60 do you want to breed to him? The answers should be obvious, no. Each breeder must learn to use the scores as a one tool in the breeding selection and purchase process. There are many other factors to consider. The breeder or purchaser sure use other tools make the important decisions associated with a mating, such as pedigree, costs, availability, fertility, etc. And, potential purchasers should find the scores helpful!! Thus, the NFHR Evaluation was intended to educate and enlighten those breeders desiring to participate in the evaluation, to guide their breeding programs. I will follow up on any questions or areas of confusion. Let me hear
Re: Fjord Training
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: when we first learned to drive, the teacher commented that the worst possible scenario is a green horse, and a green handler, so I also agree that someone getting their first horse would really benefit from some sort of learning opportunity from an experieneced person. While there is a temptation to sell any horse that you have a buyer for, I wonder if anyone thinks that the seller has any responsibility for not creating that worst case scenario by selling untrained animals to inexperienced people? In an ideal world, customers would be perfectly honest about their horse experience, and sellers would only offer them animals appropriate to that experience. Reality being what it is, both buyers and sellers tend to overestimate what the buyer knows, what the horse knows, and how perfect they are for each other. I did fine with my first horse---I knew I was green, said so, and insisted that I wanted a bombproof babysitter; that's what I got in my Nansy mare. The rot set in when we went shopping for our second Fjord. Nansy had given me an inflated opinion of my riding skills, and I ended up talking to someone fairly new to the horse business--- i.e. BOTH he and I were too green to realize that the horse he offered me was also too green! (We later realized that the quiet Fjord temperament covered up some serious holes in his education.) The end result was a runaway and crash that thoroughly shattered my confidence. (However, we had bought that horse for my husband, who had sufficient courage of ignorance that, with some lessons from a neighbor, they worked it out; I still won't get on that horse.) When it came time for me to retire Nansy, I went back to her original owner, and said I wanted another one, just like her! Technically, Sleepy did not meet my design spec (I wanted a 10-ish mare; HE was only 4---but mentally going on 12, and with a lot of time and mileage on his resume); time has proven that he was the right horse for me. Anyway, yes, each time I went Fjord-shopping, I had to walk away from breeders who wanted to sell me animals younger and/or less trained than I thought I needed. Part of the problem was that Fjords were even more scarce then, and turn-key ones were few and far between. And, part of it is that training costs money---often more than can be recovered when the trained horse is sold. Sellers see more profit in unloading 2-year-olds; buyers see less cost in buying youngsters (forgetting that they'll have to pay for training, as well as board while the animal grows up). I don't know that there is a solution, other than steering prospective new Fjord owners toward sellers who're good at matching horses to owners. Nancy's Fjord Horses has certainly done right by me! Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #203
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Response to Susan Cook Remarks - An Open Letter Subject: If Wayne Hipsley or Carol Riviore have a proposal to make to the BOD of the NFHR they will have to present that proposal of what he would do and for what $ directly to the BOD. Dear Ms. Cook I am not like you, taking pot shots without knowing the targets. You have reached a new level for the Digest. The tone of your remarks makes me think you know something I do not. I have not challenged the NFHR Board of Directors, Committees nor members of the NFHR in any of my messages to the Digest. Your implication makes me wonder about your motivation for the above statement. I originally subscribed to list in order to provide a clarification to those who attended the 1998 Oregon evaluation. Many of the comments made by participants and observers were not accurate thus, I felt it was important to set the record straight rather than allow the continuation of false remarks that defame a horse and it's owner. Above all else, I wanted the truth to be conveyed rather than start a vicous, unfounded rumor. Since fulfilling this original purpose, I have responded to comments to persons commenting on the Digest list. * I have made suggestions to persons on the Digest list. * I have tried to provide background information when feasible[ie. Minor prints]. * I have made private comments to persons on the list relative to matters that I did not feel needed to be broadcast to the world. * I have attempted to provide clarification on other issues or questions. * Nothing I have said has been directed to the NFHR BOD via the Digest. That's a fools path. It's obvious you do not know me nor my work. I work in a very contrary manner. I have shared directly with the Evaluation Committee members[via telephone, email and in writing] a great number of suggestions on making improvements in the evaluation process. This is an official committee of the NFHR. By sharing with the Committee members directly I have accomplished the goal of making suggestions, exploring workable options, and working to realistic solutions. It is than up to the Committee to follow-up with recommendations to the NFHR BOD and thus for the BOD to take the appropriate action. I followed long established traditional methods of organizational procedures. I do not and have never worked to under mine an organization. Quite the contrary, my method is to work with an organization, within it's structure. Wayne G. Hipsley
Re: Fjord Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nancy wrote: I'll get off my soapbox now and hope I haven't bored everyone to death. Not at all boring. I completely agree with the well trained, mellow gelding method of training a young horse, as well as the approach of exposing them to as many sights and sounds as possible. Also, when we first learned to drive, the teacher commented that the worst possible scenario is a green horse, and a green handler, so I also agree that someone getting their first horse would really benefit from some sort of learning opportunity from an experieneced person. While there is a temptation to sell any horse that you have a buyer for, I wonder if anyone thinks that the seller has any responsibility for not creating that worst case scenario by selling untrained animals to inexperienced people?
WWW bookmarks
This message is from: Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm in shock ... my 'puter burped again and I just lost over 50 bookmarks to web pages that had Fjord horses on them that took me two years to collect! Now I need to think of all the words that mean Norwegian Fjord Horse in the human languages! Meredith Sessoms Soddy-Daisy, Tennessee, USA mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ Dorina ~ NFR Aagot .~:~. Fjords ~ Caper ~ Carly ~ Crickett .~:~. Labradors My treasures neither clink nor glitter, but gleam in the sunlight and neigh in the night. - anon
Re: winter activities
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] briar hill farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you do in your area with your fjords in winter? Susan Cook Winter in this part of coastal California means rain, sometimes of the 40 days and 40 nights variety. Combined with our steep terrain and heavy clay soil, this makes the local trails unridable most of the winter. (When we do get clear days, they're accompanied with howling east winds, which can cause even Fjord brains to blow away!) Mostly what we do in the winter is throw hay at the front end, shovel up after the back end, and give a friendly pat to anything reasonably non-muddy on the way by Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. Where we're getting what passes for fall color---the poison oak is turning red ---
Re: Hosting an Evaluation
This message is from: Evers [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 06:55 PM 10/6/98 -0600, you wrote: On evaluations I had inquired recently to see if any evaluations were planned for the East Coast and was told not at the moment. I then offered to host one if location was an issue and was informed they do not allow breeders to host an evaluation. Seems a little silly to me, what do you think? It would save money if location was donated and I do not think they're would be any home team advantage because the grounds would have all I believe the answer is you can host an evaluation, but not on your property. Talk to Gayle Ware. She hosted one in OR. this year it was a good one Maybe Mike can answer this. I would like to see one every other month, East West , North South .Then All can get to one of them. All the good idea are on paper how can we help put them in a required reading for all members. I would like some decales or bumper stickers with a logo A picture of the Fjord .We need to let everyone see what they are as many people tell us : you have the Islandic horses in your pasture. We are going to make a farm sign big enough to let them know We Have FJORDSTillie Bud Tillie Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/8589
Susan Cook's comments
This message is from: Cynthia_Madden/OAA/UNO/[EMAIL PROTECTED] I am been thinking about Susan's comments and while I have some agreement with her. I do take exception to much she says. First, I think we should remember that this list was started by Steve with the idea that it would be like visiting around the kitchen table. Kitchen table conversations have always included political topics and these sometimes get contentious, but often they are thought provoking and certainly the conversations lately have been that. I don't consider it real flaming as happens on other lists - just some strong opinions (perhaps repeated more often than necessary). I have thought that there have been some very thoughtful ideas and suggestions from concerned people who love Fjords and want to see what is best for them and for the organization that we support to guide their future. A little healthy criticism is good for anyone. It seems to me that part of the problem is communication. Many people, despite avid reading of the Herald, are not feeling informed and participatory in what is being done and thought about. The electronic age allows for faster communication and forums for discussion that are more immediate than a quarterly magazine. I can't see this type of discussion taking place in letters to the editor four times a year. It is also my understanding that board members who are on this list have been sharing the conversation with other board members- many who feel the ideas are worth discussing and exploring. I applaud this attitude and sincerely hope that BOD members are not feeling personally attacked by the discussions taking place. I have seen many participants on the list volunteer for NFHR committees and that Mike May will see that the Board they gets this information. I hope to hear from someone soon concerning my willingness to serve on a couple of committees. While not a board member, Mike does participate in board meetings and seems to be willing to be a conduit of information. I have said before and will say again, that perhaps the NFHR should consider a vehicle that reaches all members more frequently and perhaps less expensively that the Herald. (I am certainly not advocating discontinuing the Herald). More timely reading of board minutes and perhaps some editorials or essays by board members and others, could discuss direction and actions of the NFHR that the magazine does not have room for should be communicatied more quickly. Not everyone has e-mail, but the discussion on this list certainly indicates there are concerns out there, and I would urge everyone with concerns to directly contact their NFHR representative or board members in general. The board should be ready to listen to and acknolwedge these concerns. Julie Wills note to the FH-L certainly convinced me that the BOD is acting in our best interest and addressing many important issues, but their work will never be done and there is always the next issue to tackle. I also believe that if you are willing to criticize, you had better be ready to back it up with a willingness to be a part of the solution. I think that board members should be part of this list if they have the technology. The people here are probably a good representative sample of Fjords owners and it is a very good way to keep in touch with what is going on and what people are thinking, besides being just darn interesting. I would encourage all board members who can to participate in discussions on this list as individuals and representatives of the NFHR. It is a good vehicle for communication and feedback. So, Susan, the discussion will probably not end and it will continue on a natural ebb flow. I for one am always happy to talk about my very special Fjord who is currently getting very hairy and fat as summer activities wind down and the loss of daylight makes it hard to play during the week. Notice I did not use the caps lock key once! Enough said for now. Cynthia Madden, Coordinator Office of Sponsored Programs Research University of Nebraska at Omaha E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jValiant efforts
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 09:24 AM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: Starfire Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] How about posting information about this mailing list on the NFHR website? Sounds like a good idea to me. I will check with Steve to see if it is OK with him. It was ok with Steve and the info is now on our Web site. I put a link on the Links section to an existing site Steve had setup. So you can now Subscribe or unsubscribe to the list via www.nfhr.com Just click on the Links to Fjords button Mike == Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Webster, NY, USA (Suburb of Rochester) Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Mike and List, Mike did tell me if your horses were in the evaluation you could not hold one, I forgot to mention this. But the reason I was asking is because I am very excited about having our youngstock evaluated, and customers we have would like a more local place to be evaluated. That is why I would consider offering a location when our rings are finished. I was just offering and innocently asking for comment. If I feel strongly enough I do send my own letters, but not till I have formulated a fair and accurate opinion on something. I think the list is a nice way to get input. Lisa, nice print! Have any of you seen the ancient french cave drawings of horses? Looks exactly like a Fjord to meSincerely, L of the H
Re: Horrible squirrel/water tub incident
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 09:39 AM 10/7/98 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: Julia Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] I haven't noticed bird droppings in the tanks, and don't often see birds trying to drink from the tanks. Of course it has been a wet year, and we have ponds, swamps, bird baths and a swimming pool nearby so the birds really have lots of options. Julie Well your fancy new automatic waterers should take care of all of those problems anyway. They looked pretty nice.
Re: Horrible squirrel/water tub incident
This message is from: Julia Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] I haven't noticed bird droppings in the tanks, and don't often see birds trying to drink from the tanks. Of course it has been a wet year, and we have ponds, swamps, bird baths and a swimming pool nearby so the birds really have lots of options. Julie
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #202
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-10-07 00:29:52 EDT, you write: What do you do in your area with your fjords in winter? Susan Cook Ride, practice, train, in the rain. This will be my first winter where I'm not boarding at a stable with an indoor arena. We're at our new home, just finished painting our arena fence yesterday and have nice footing with sand we just had brought in. My husband is looking into doing Search Rescue with his fjord mare. Can you think of a better purpose for a hardy, strong, sensible horse than helping find and rescue somebody who is lost? Pamela
Re: RE: Fjord Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks, Kristine, I will get my crop ready and give it a try! Have not used one before so good experience for both of us - also, will lead from the other side - also a good idea. I will hold off on the chain unless I really need it - overall this gelding is very good and if I just work with him he will get it. He already has improved alot since I first got him - just need to keep working and practicing. Linda
RE: Fjord Training
This message is from: Werner, Kristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Linda - Kai used to crowd in the beginning, too - and step on my feet and go too fast etc. etc.. He still crowds my husband when they go for a walk. I am not sure why - someone once told me that Fjords are in your face-type animals and like it real cozy. But I am not sure about that. I just know that pushing doesn`t fly with me. For that reason I always have him (Kai, not my husband) on a chain lead; the chain part is perhaps 10 inches long and I weave it in and out of the halter. This helps to keep him in line and if he forces me to jerk on it I will and this is uncomfortable for him. In the beginning he was so unruly that I had to walk him around with his bridle and bit on him. Nowadays it is a pleasure to go for walks - I enjoy it almost as much as riding. But I refuse to dispense with the chain lead. Apart from the chain lead I always carry a CROP. This is paramount - Kai has respect to the nth degree for the whip and I use this to my advantage, which is also his advantage, in the long run. When Kai is too quick, I tap him lightly on the breast, murmur s, slower and he responds. He knows what it`s all about, but he just running a spot check, testing, to see whether or not I am paying attention. He wants to obey, but he has to make sure first that its worth it - funny, just exactly like children - they know when you are bluffing. Take a crop along with you, Linda, and point the way out to your gelding. When he gets too close, tap him on the side (if you push, he will simply lean into your shove) with the whip - then you can point out to the front and side to show him where you want him to walk. Speak to him as you do this - horses understand language after a time. You might also try leading him on both sides. You may notice that he reacts differently - is quicker, slower, does crowd etc... Kai leads better when I am right of him than left. I have read that it is a good idea to carry out every sort of procedure both from the left and from the right - including mounting, leading and so forth - to keep the horses from becoming stiff and too one-sided. It is also good for improving the horses awareness - the left-sided experience can differ greatly a repetition of the same on the right. Good luck on the lunge line ! Regards, Kristine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 7. Oktober 1998 13:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fjord Training This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Nancy, for your helpful comments and suggestions regarding training. Also appreciate the recommendation on the video - Linda from Minnesota I am interested in your comment about teaching your Fjords to stay out of your space. Could you elaborate on what you actually do to reinforce this? When I lead my l0 yr. old gelding he will sometimes crowd me - if I push on him with my arm or elbow it seems to have little effect - I have been turning him around whenever he does this and it seems to help a little - maybe you have a better suggestion. Also, any suggestions for starting this l0 year old in round pen training (he has not been in one to my knowlegde and has never been on a lunge-line) - is not real crazy about going in circles - prefers straight ahead! Again, thanks!!!
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #202
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 11:26 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peg - Pedfjord RE: Minor Prints The National Geographic Society dedicated an entire issue of the publication to the horse in November, 1923. The title: The Horses of the World. It is a wonderful history of the horse and its impact on civilization. The complete specially bond edition is very collectible. Normally retailing of $35.00 if you can find one. The color illustrations are interesting and some resemble the breeds quite well whereas others represent an artist's view of the horses. It is one of the few illustrations of the Fjord to appear in US literature prior to WWII. We are constantly looking for art on Fjord and other European breeds and this Nat'l Geo is one of the few and earliest. There are also some pictures of Fjords in the National Geographic article on Norway in the april, 1939 issue. Some are color some are BW. There isn't much in the article about the horses though. The captions under some of the pictures do say they are Norwegian Duns Some of them are shown in wedding ceremonies.
Re: Horrible squirrel/water tub incident
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 05:44 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: Julia Will [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have never had a problem with furry animals in my water tubs, but often with birds, so now we float a chunk of wood in every water trough, and never find drowned birds. I guess if the chunk were a bit larger, it would save a squirrel if one fell in. We use a chunk of pine 2X4, or 2X6 or 2X8, whatever is left over and handy, but a small chunk of firewood would work just as well...not walnut though! Probably don't want to use the pressure treated stuff either. Not sure what it is treated with but I doubt that it is anything we would want the horses to drink. Do you have a lot of bird droppings in the tanks by doing this Julie? == Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Webster, NY, USA (Suburb of Rochester) Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fjord Training
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you, Nancy, for your helpful comments and suggestions regarding training. Also appreciate the recommendation on the video - Linda from Minnesota I am interested in your comment about teaching your Fjords to stay out of your space. Could you elaborate on what you actually do to reinforce this? When I lead my l0 yr. old gelding he will sometimes crowd me - if I push on him with my arm or elbow it seems to have little effect - I have been turning him around whenever he does this and it seems to help a little - maybe you have a better suggestion. Also, any suggestions for starting this l0 year old in round pen training (he has not been in one to my knowlegde and has never been on a lunge-line) - is not real crazy about going in circles - prefers straight ahead! Again, thanks!!!
Re: Welcome
This message is from: Mike May [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 06:09 PM 10/6/98 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On evaluations I had inquired recently to see if any evaluations were planned for the East Coast and was told not at the moment. I then offered to host one if location was an issue and was informed they do not allow breeders to host an evaluation. Lets clarify that a bit Laura. Breeders can and hopefully will volunteer to host an evaluation. Currently it can not be held on their farm if they are going to have their horses in it. Seems a little silly to me, what do you think? It would save money if location was donated and I do not think they're would be any home team advantage because the grounds would have all new people horses and equipment around, in other words it would not be business as usual. Besides other breeds do it this way. I also think you have to assume any judge worth their salt would not be swayed because of this, I would go no matter where it was held, just food for thought. L of the Hollow This is going to be brought up on the next evaluation committee meeting. This would be a good time to hear the pros cons though. == Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Webster, NY, USA (Suburb of Rochester) Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Fjord Training
This message is from: Werner, Kristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Nancy - interesting that you start training your Fjords at the age of two. I guess most horses in the States are started around that age. Here, though, it is widely known that the Fjord is a late bloomer and not mature until the age of 6. Most Fjords are first gently ridden and slightly worked at the age of 4 at the very earliest. Why do you start so soon ? Isn`t the danger of hoof disease (founder?) greatly increased ? Also, what about the pyschological effects ? I am interested to hear your opinions on this as the issue is red hot over here. Regards, Kristine -Original Message- From: Nancy Hotovy [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mittwoch, 7. Oktober 1998 02:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fjord Training This message is from: Nancy Hotovy [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been reading with interest the comments in regards to the training of Fjord. I also believe Fjords attract a lot of first time horse owners. In selling to a first time owner, I always recommend they find a clinic, trainer, 4-H Club, Driving Club to train themselves first. Fjords are very intelligent animals - sometimes to darned smart for their own good. Some of our best performance horses are just not suitable for a first time owner. The rider/driver HAS to be smarter than the horse. That's not to say that some Fjords aren't babysitters. You know, the kind of horse that will take care of anyone and even when the human is in error, the horse will still compensate. We start teaching all foals manners from their first day of life. It is NEVER OK to bite, kick, strike (I've heard it called shaking hands). The horses are never to intrude in my space when being led. I am the boss! (My husband thinks I'm bossy too). I introduce them to cross ties and clippers and brushing by the time they are a couple months old. Do not expect perfection at that time, but every lesson should be a positive experience. We don't handle weanlings every day or even every week, but being Fjords they are very friendly whenever approached in the pasture and learn quickly what is OK and what is not. When it is time for driving lessons (late yearling or 2 year old year here) I use a bitting rig and round pen them until they know WHOA and are giving nicely to the bit. At that time we put them with our big, totally trained, totally unflappable gelding and drive them on a stone boat for a few days until that is no longer a big deal, then on to a small driving wagon. At that time, I put many miles each day on them (if they are over two). The wagon is very light and I introduce them to highways, towns, railroads, and anything else I can find that will frighten a young horse. Please note, this is done gradually and the gelding I use does as much of the teaching as I do. When the young horse shys at something, I talk to them, give them firm commands and confidence all the while my gelding is walking on as unconcerned as can be. In a few short lessons, it seems the young horse looks to my rock and thinks, Gee, this doesn't bother him at all, I guess it's OK. In the end, I have a horse that has total confidence in me and is pretty trustworthy in any situation it might encounter. Please note, this is a VERY BRIEF description of all I do in the training. It is a training method I learned from Cathy Zahm, Huntington, Indiana who has successfully trained hundreds of draft horses. She gives clinics and has videos. I highly recommend the clinic to anyone new to driving although I don't recommend training your own horse if you're just learning yourself. A statement that is always scary is I want to buy a foal so we can learn together. Safety should always practiced and is the first thing anyone dealing with horses needs to learn. I've heard a few negative comments about having to hire a trainer. Money spent on a good trainer is not wasted. A well trained Fjord is a joy to own, whether you show or just trail ride/drive. I'll get off my soapbox now and hope I haven't bored everyone to death. My whole message here is LEARN AND PRACTICE SAFETY!
RE: blessing, and sharing knowledge
This message is from: Werner, Kristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Ann You should indeed attend the Pat Parelli course, if you can. I was there as a spectator and got more out of it than if I had had my horse there with to distract me. The gamey aspect is truly the key - I could tell that Kai was astounded by some of the simplest things, which of course I never would have come up with myself. For example, that he should not turn away from me when I am standing beside him, brushing him or whatever. If he turns his head to the right when I am standing left, I simply touch him with the crop on my side. He then turns toward me - looking for the irritant - realizes its me and then I leave him alone. Soon, all of that touching becomes bothersome for him and he starts chewing and paying attention to me. These are small issues of utmost importance (according to Parelli others). Another thing that seems to have changed Kai´s mind about things is the idea that I can persuade him to go backwards. It is generally said that this is an important part of gaining dominance over the horse, whose first thought and reflex is motion to the fore. Parelli encourages using a lead and slapping it with the carrot stick he invented (a non-flexible orange colored crop w/ a whip) to send the horse backwards to the end of the line. The animal should then stay put until prompted to come forward. Another way to move your horse backward is to apply hand pressure to the horse`s nose and push him backward - the amount of pressure depends upon his compliance with your command. I tried this method out on Kai - a light press sufficed - and sent him around the flat - 20 or so steps. Boy, was he confused. What`s going on? he seemed to querie. I practiced this several times during a one or two week period. I could tell by the look in his eyes that he was beginning to understand the necessity of his subjection to me. The reality that someone or thing could prompt him to go backwards so easily - and that he did not resist. This was new. Because Kai´s defiance streak underscores a rascally but sweet nature (he is only 4), I felt that these exercises were necessary to prove my superiority over him. On the other hand, after those several sessions of backwards propulsion, I realized that Kai, who is also very sensitive and by no means dumb, had understood the lesson and began to take my commands for him to step back as a kind of punishment. Therefore, I have made it a practice to have him backup when I would otherwise have to go around or duck under him (the horse should ALWAYS budge for us and not the other way around - something the horse is constantly aware of but that we tend to forget) or if the way is blocked etc.. Nowadays all I need to do is say - backup, backup Kai and he knows what it`s all about. Super ! And the greatest thing is that he doesn`t seem to be bothered by that command any carries it out gladly. It is so wonderful to have the feeling now that we understand each other. And all because of this simple little exercise. He is happier, I am ecstatic. There were so many other games taught in those sessions - if you can, attend ! It will open your eyes to the world of horse thinking. They are clever and they are always conscious of what`s going on around them and reason on the basis of our actions, of which we are not always aware ourselves. But this course will help you in that regard. Marsha: You are right, too, I guess: feelings are bruised so quickly and inadvertently. I was recently told what not to do and it made me mad at first - later, of course, I had to admit that my mentor was right. Feelings and especially pride should not get in the way of safety, though, for goodness sake. Imagine smugly sitting around, spectator to an accident that you could have prevented. That is crazy - irresponsible and without conscience. Regards, Kristine -Original Message- From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Dienstag, 6. Oktober 1998 20:21 To: Fjordhorse List Subject: re: blessing, and sharing knowledge This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad [EMAIL PROTECTED] In response to Kristine Werner, thank you for encouraging all to share what they know. I am interested that you enjoyed your Pat Perelli course with Kai. It may actually be a possiblility to attend one up here, so i am interested. I was thinking that the game aspect of a lot of it would appeal to Dro/y; he is too smart and really gets bored easily. Besides, if I don't initiate the games, he will! Keep me posted with Kai. Re blessing the animals, I know that if I took Dro/y to be blessed, he would be sure that HE was the one that would bless or not bless, thank you very much! ann
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #202
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A HREF=http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=33904583; eBay item 33904583 (Ends 10/11/98 14:36:12 PDT) - 75 Yr old Print NORWEGIAN DUN/AThought you might like to see what the print look's like that I got on E-Bay auction. The seller is offering another print, and it's from a National Geograpic Mag. from Dec. 1923. Happy bidding! LisaPS, look at those face stripes! ( And untrimmed manes... wonder when that style began? ) LP
Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #201
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: Re: Norwegian Fjord print Date: 98-10-06 18:35:50 EDT From: LHamil4269 To: Pedfjords Me again - I found the page that has the remainder of the bit on Norwegian Dun and is as follows: ... southern Europe, derived originally from Africa, the Norwegian Dun continues to be a remarkably prepotent horse, of moderate size, well rounded, with clean head and legs, strong, courageous, and very sure-footed. Scientists are inclined to the belief that the wild Tarpan is related not only to some of the existing horses of western Europe, but also to their prehistoric ancestors. This is one of the reasons for the belief that the Norwegian Dun represents a very ancient type and inherits its color either directly from or by reversion to the wild Tarpan. The Norwegian Dun is a trotter, and this led at one time to the importation of a number of mares from Norway to England to be mated with Norfolk stallions, an English breed of trotters of considerable renown. And in case you still want the date, it was published in December 1923 Best regards, Lois PS: Hope you cleaned up my spelling before you sent it out. grin
