Re: Denny Emerson's article
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/9/01 6:50:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Horse breeding is certainly not an exact science - you can breed the best to the best, and still get a mediocre - or worse - horse. BUT - planning your matings, doing your research, understanding conformation, and using the best animals does greatly increase your chances of getting an individual that you can be proud of. Can you tell that I feel strongly about this? Sorry for the rant Jan Yep. I agree. I've had a couple decent quality horses, that I would NOT breed. I had the colt gelded and didn't breed the 2 mares. They were great riding horses, but were not the best representatives of their breeds. It's much easier to buy GOOD horses than breed and get And it can certainly be a crap shoot, even with good stock. Our palomino mare was pregnant when we bought her, and she had a drop dead gorgeous palomino filly. Every quarter horse person who saw her was absolutely floored. She was so nice, we tried it twice. The next baby, full sister, was a weird rabicano roan color. With a gawky looking body, and was really very so-so. I really was not thrilled with her personality, she was NOT the kind of horse I want around a special needs child, so she went up for sale. She eventually was sold to a man who just adores this horse. But really, we barely got more than the stud fee for her. And with all the time, energy, feed, vet care, training we put into her, we lost our shirts! So, the same cross produced one A+++ filly, and one C grade. Go figure. Now the Juniper and Misha cross, I could not have asked for a better filly. Nice legs, feet, conformation. A beautiful feminine look and an easy, pleasing disposition. Our trainer is having a WONDERFUL time working with this one! Pamela
Re: Pedigree Information - 5 generation registration cert.
This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - Carol, I guess I would have to ask why this information was not requested by you when you originally imported the horse ~~ Yes, I could request this information when importing horses, and get it without problems. If you accepted the pedigree as is when you bought the horse - why now the need to update it? ~ Because a completed pedigree certificate is better than one with holes in it, and when I bought the horse, she wasn't registered by NFHR, just by the Dutch, so I had no way of knowing if the NFHR had all her antecedents in its data base, or not. PLEASE UNDERSTAND that all this information is on record in Holland, and (I assume Norway). It's only a question of somebody asking for it. ~~~ If it's for the reason of saleability I would think it's your responsibility to request the information. Please understand that I used this case as an example only. It's important that all U.S. Fjordhorses have as complete pedigrees as can be obtained. ~~~ If it's for the reason to have complete pedigrees, I would think that the NFHR would only be responsible for what it requires of any horse registered with NFHR. ~~ That's right. The NFHR is only responsible for what it requres of any horse . . . That's the present policy. And that's my point. It should be part of the Registrar's job to complete pedigrees to five generations. Why have a 5 generation registration certificate and not try to complete it? (If you want to work to change that policy - that's another story That's what I'm doing by asking you what you think, and by asking Mike and the Board to change the policy. ~~ Preserving the integrity of pedigree information is vital, which is why I think the NFHR Registrar should be the one to request and receive the information. Not individuals - Much less chance of error. ~~ ANOTHER PROBLEM - When an owner sends in an application to register, or transfer from another registry, he can't know until he receives his NFHR certificate whether it's going to be a complete 5 generation pedigree, or whether there'll be holes in it. -- If it's not, he then has to track down the missing information, return the original certificate (with another fee), and wait for a new certificate to be made. Problem is, this isn't an easy task for a lot of owners as many would have no idea where to get this information. The NFHR Registrar knows how to do it. Isn't there a better way? Should owners contact Mike before sending in registration applications or transfers to find out if five generations are in the computer? That would entail much more work for Mike because he'd have to look up every applicant, rather than just the ones that come up incomplete when he's doing the certificates. ~~~ This is pretty simple. 4th and 5th generations Fjordhorses are in the European Studbook computers. The NFHR should write the European registries and formally request their cooperation in obtaining prompt pedigree information on horses in their data banks. When you finally get the registration certificate for your new Fjord, wouldn't you rather have it completely filled in, rather than see a lot of blank spaces? Regards, Carol Rivoire Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www.beaverdamfarm.com
Re: Pedigree Information - 5 generation registration cert.
This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - Carol, I guess I would have to ask why this information was not requested by you when you originally imported the horse ~~ Yes, I could request this information when importing horses, and get it without problems. If you accepted the pedigree as is when you bought the horse - why now the need to update it? ~ Because a completed pedigree certificate is better than one with holes in it, and when I bought the horse, she wasn't registered by NFHR, just by the Dutch, so I had no way of knowing if the NFHR had all her antecedents in its data base, or not. PLEASE UNDERSTAND that all this information is on record in Holland, and (I assume Norway). It's only a question of somebody asking for it. ~~~ If it's for the reason of saleability I would think it's your responsibility to request the information. Please understand that I used this case as an example only. It's important that all U.S. Fjordhorses have as complete pedigrees as can be obtained. ~~~ If it's for the reason to have complete pedigrees, I would think that the NFHR would only be responsible for what it requires of any horse registered with NFHR. ~~ That's right. The NFHR is only responsible for what it requres of any horse . . . That's the present policy. And that's my point. It should be part of the Registrar's job to complete pedigrees to five generations. Why have a 5 generation registration certificate and not try to complete it? (If you want to work to change that policy - that's another story That's what I'm doing by asking you what you think, and by asking Mike and the Board to change the policy. ~~ Preserving the integrity of pedigree information is vital, which is why I think the NFHR Registrar should be the one to request and receive the information. Not individuals - Much less chance of error. ~~ ANOTHER PROBLEM - When an owner sends in an application to register, or transfer from another registry, he can't know until he receives his NFHR certificate whether it's going to be a complete 5 generation pedigree, or whether there'll be holes in it. -- If it's not, he then has to track down the missing information, return the original certificate (with another fee), and wait for a new certificate to be made. Problem is, this isn't an easy task for a lot of owners as many would have no idea where to get this information. The NFHR Registrar knows how to do it. Isn't there a better way? Should owners contact Mike before sending in registration applications or transfers to find out if five generations are in the computer? That would entail much more work for Mike because he'd have to look up every applicant, rather than just the ones that come up incomplete when he's doing the certificates. ~~~ This is pretty simple. 4th and 5th generations Fjordhorses are in the European Studbook computers. The NFHR should write the European registries and formally request their cooperation in obtaining prompt pedigree information on horses in their data banks. When you finally get the registration certificate for your new Fjord, wouldn't you rather have it completely filled in, rather than see a lot of blank spaces? Regards, Carol Rivoire Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www.beaverdamfarm.com
Re: Solar - A Matador of N.A. Fjord Breeding
This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - I knew that Solar wasn't in good health, but I was still shocked and saddened to hear of the death of this wonderful stallion. Solar was one of the Madadors of North American Fjord breeding. The term Matador as it applies to Fjord breeding means stallions who've had a tremendous influence on the breed - stallions like Njal, Rosendalsborken, Bergfast, Malm, Baronen. Solar had all the credentials in the world, both in Norway and Holland, and now after close to twenty years, in North America as well. He was born in Norway in 1977, and approved there in 1981, and either that year or soon after was purchased by the Nederlandse Fjordenpaarden Stamboek as a Studbook stallion. Solar was a son of Helleve 1756 who was a son of Valebu 1569. I believe Valebu can be considered a Matador as well. Some well-known and important stallions can be traced back to Valebu. These include: Solar, Reidulf Ree, Rei Halsnaess, Dragmann DK 475, Norman 123, Briggen. One descendent of Valebu who was a Dutch Approved Stallion, though not a great or long-lived one, is Zolvar, better known as BRIG, now in northern California, 22 years old and still winning CDEs. Another descendent of Valebu is the stallion, Karibu, also in the U.S. Holland very much valued the Solar contribution. Bob van Bon once said to me that Solar's value was in the character and temperament of his offspring. Bob's comment was that anybody can be successful with a Solar son or daughter. We've certainly found that to be true. We've had (and have) several Solar daughters, and all have been wonderfully easy horses. Right now, we have two Solar daughters (BDF Toril and Holly), and a Solar son, Shatalya's Jarle (for sale). It's not an exaggeration to say these are the some of the nicest examples of the breed. Solar was a nice stallion, but I remember once when his niceness worked against him. It was the stallion class at Woodstock many many years ago. There were Norwegian and Dutch judges, and despite Solar having been an Approved Stallion in both countries, he came in third in the judging. The reason was - He was too quiet. He didn't strut his stuff as much as the judges like to see. The other reason the judges gave was that Solar's belly was too rounded, and this can be seen in all his photos, as well as in all his offspring. Solar's approved son in Holland, Courage, has the rounded mare belly. Most all the Solar daughters we've had have tended to be extremely big in the belly, even those that have never foaled. --- It's just a characteristic of the line. Another one of those things you find in horse breeding that keep you humble and realizing that No horse is perfect!. Not even the best of them, and Solar was one of the best! We love and value our Solar daughters and our one Solar son. They're fabulous Fjords, and the two mares have worked and produced for us for a lot of years. Toril, being barren, has been a school and performance horse her whole life, and is always there for us. She really is a jewel. She'll be 19 years old this April, and we'll be depending on her as usual for our Nova Scotia Beginner Driving Vacations. Holly, who'll be 15 this Spring has given us seven extremely good foals, and in between years, does yeoman work in the driving vacations. Jarle, who's only 3 1/2 is already a fabulous trail horse, and is progressing beautifully in his driving. --- These are good horses, easy to train, and easy to work. We've had other beautiful Solar daughters at the farm recently to be bred to Gjest. Our driving vacation guests fondly remember Zona from this summer. A great driving horse, a real worker, and 100% dependable. I'm so very sorry that Solar's gone, and I think it's important that North American Fjord people realize just how good a horse he was, and how important he's been to our breeding programs. And how LUCKY we were that Solar ended up on this side of the Atlantic. For those of you who don't know how that happened, I'll tell you the story as briefly as I can. He was purchased in Holland by the owner of Ivory Ranch, which was a big-time operation that owned many famous stadium jumpers and employed Margie Goldstein to ride them. This man had a son who lived in the Catskill Mountains in NY. The son was a back-to-the-lander, and the father thought that a herd of Fjordhorses would be a nice gift. The son had expressed interest in Fjords at one time or another, so the father bought him a herd - Solar and six or eight mares. The son was less than pleased because all he wanted was one Fjord for his little farm . . . not a whole herd of them. The result of this was that all the horses and their foals ended up on the father's estate on Long Island Sound. A beautiful estate, but no place for horses. -- The herd was for sale which is why I went, but
Re: Solar and Lindsay
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Solar passed away on 10/2/2001. When I started working for Howard and Sophie they sent me to the east to meet with Lindsay. I spent two days with her and Susan Cook and Marcy Bear. I'd been away from horses for some years and forgotten what it was like to be wrapped in horse talk. The four of us took off in carts and horseback to trail ride the lovely woods of Vermont. Yea right, at one point I expected to see Sherpas carrying oxygen tanks. Those New Englanders are one tuff lot.Then the next evening, Lindsay gave me the tourist thing, only we were loosing daylight fast. Lindsay would point out a covered bridge over there- only you couldn't see it because it was so dark. She pointed out a historic farm with a round barn - only you couldn't see it because it was so dark - It was also pointed out to me where the beginning to the Bob Newhart show was filmed - but you couldn't see it . and on and on. Maybe you had to be there, but I never laughed so hard. She also introduced me to Denny Emerson - a personal friend of hers. I was impressed. But what I remember most of the trip was Solar - and Lindsay - she loved that horse more than her next breath. She shared some of her history with me and it sounded like he got her through some pretty ruff times. I've heard alot of stories on the Digest about people loosing their horses and the effect left on them, but boy, I'd bank on the fact that Lindsay and Solar top the list for heartbreak. Solar had 73 offspring. some super daughters like Villrose, Bryhyl Aryel, Sophia, Holly and Burlwood's Zoe. I'm sure there are more daughters deserving mention but these are the only ones I've seen. Not to mention the breeding stallion Courage, still standing in Holland - a son of Solar. Great horse - great owner - irreplaceable partnership.
Re: Pedigrees from Holland
This message is from: Pat [EMAIL PROTECTED] After importing our first group of weanlings from Holland in 1997 and finding the empty blanks in some of the pedigrees, I tried to get information from Holland and never received it. So I, through much research from studbooks, Dutch Fjord Magazine and Bob van Bon's Book, was able to provide Mike May with information to fill in the blanks found not only on our papers, but once the information was fed into the computer it filled in the holes for horses Carol and others have imported. I personally found the pedigree search fascinating and have hugh charts with lines drawn to - connecting bloodlines - to me it was like a puzzle - always looking for the missing piece. This taught me a great deal about bloodlines and crosses that seem to work better than others. Let me add that Mike May didn't just take my word for these fill-ins I had to provide him with all the facts, copies and so forth for him to accept it - and rightfully so. It's funny how things work out, when we first had this problem I guess I could have insisted that someone make it right. But by doing the research myself I received a good education on Fjord pedigrees - of which in the end has made us better educated breeders with the ability to make better informed mating decisions. Perhaps Carol with her Honorary Award from Holland could be the liason to not only get pedigree updates but updates on the ster and elite' status of the various imports. Sophie Fiedler - Green Valley Farm
Re: sinus problems
This message is from: Jean Gayle [EMAIL PROTECTED] By the way Steve W are you dosing with smzs in water etc. Have you tried using water? The smzs separate and become thick and almost hard so they do not go through the large hypo. Maddening. It is a point for applesauce. Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of The Colonel's Daughter Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: Libby
This message is from: Mike May, Registrar NFHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 11:59 AM 12/9/2001 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] No Evaluation At Libby? So when and where is the fjord evaluation this year? I was under the impression (assumed) that there was always an eval at Libby. Turlock? Where? I'm kind of in a quandry as my work impacts its time off availability very late in the year for the next calendar year. Now I may not be able to access the time off for whenever the eval is going to be. Drat. The dates or places for the 2002 Evaluations have not been set yet Pam. The committee is working on it now. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Libby
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] No Evaluation At Libby? So when and where is the fjord evaluation this year? I was under the impression (assumed) that there was always an eval at Libby. Turlock? Where? I'm kind of in a quandry as my work impacts its time off availability very late in the year for the next calendar year. Now I may not be able to access the time off for whenever the eval is going to be. Drat. Pamela Garofalo
FJORD CHAT
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PETSANDVETS.COM *NEW* Calendar of Events Chats Go to www.petsandvets.com main page and scroll down. Click on Calendar FJORD CHAT SUNDAY NIGHT DECEMBER 9th 9:00 pm to 10:00pm (Eastern Time) CHAT ROOMS http://chat.petsandvets.com MESSAGE BOARDS http://www.petsandvets.com/forums
Denny Emerson's article re. breeding
This message is from: Vivian Creigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just read an interesting article by Denny Emerson in the Chronicle of the Horse on-line. No, Denny wasn't writing about Fjords but the subject matter applies to anyone breeding horses. It should open up some discussion on this list if anyone is interested. I have plenty of observations re. Denny's article but will save them unless this article stirs up some conversation. The link is below. http://www.chronofhorse.com/bw_rounds/01/denny_dec7.html Vivian Creigh
Libby Show
This message is from: Knutsen Fjord Farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi all - Just a reminder that the Libby Show will be held on the weekend of Sept 13 - 15, 2002. This is when the town of Libby has scheduled their Nordicfest celebration. The Show Comm. invites ideas for new, exciting classes - you may submit them to me privately. Also, we need comments/committments for one particular class, Unique Hitch. This can be a crowd-pleaser, and is fun for participants, but has had very few entries in the past few years, so we plan to leave it out unless we get enough commitments from participants to have a decent - sized class. Listen up, out there! Let us hear from you. We had a good Show Comm meeting today in Ritzville, [yes, beautiful downtown Ritzville] - your show is in good hands. So let's hear what you want! Otherwise, you'll only get what we want. One thing for sure, the Stick Horse Class will have an Adult division this year; we have to - we can't keep them out. There will be no Evaluation in conjunction with the Show, so no one will have to plan to take a week's vacation just to be there. Looking forward to seeing you there - Peg Peg Knutsen - Ellensburg, WA http://www.eburg.com/~kffjord/
