See you later!
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi friends, Just want to let you know I'll be leaving the "fjord list." Many thanks for all the interesting and educational discussions, and to Steve, thank you for making the discussion possible. I'll miss it, especially the upcoming foal stories - and I'll miss annoucing our Onalee's big day late this month. And I'll miss learning more about the great Fjords of today and yesteryear... and many other things. I have printed out many peices of information, and bound them in a book. So the generous contributions of you all won't be forgotten. Aside from print and paper, you've etched an irreversable education on Hannah and my first two years of Fjording. Our education is far from complete, but at this time I'm bound to many duties besides Fjords, and the day came when I had to tell myself to pick priorities. Perhaps someday Hannah will learn to use the e-mail, and jump back in. Or maybe me... I wish everyone the best. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords Cassadaga, NY 14718
Re: Erlend web site - Knutsen Fjord Farm
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A fine site, Peg. The breed page is the most informative I've seen - halfway between an encyclopedia description and a breed promotion. It's refreshing to read such a well-written piece with no typos. (Can you tell I'm an editor who lives with an English teacher?) Not to leave out Erlend, who remains my favorite stallion. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
sleigh ride
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What a wonderful, quiet, snowy day this is! Businesses closed, phones not ringing, almost 2 feet of snow outside insulating the house. My sister Nancy and family who live a mile and a half away invited the whole Lapp clan for lunch so Hannah and I got the bright idea to hitch Viola to the sleigh and take the short way through the woods, only about a mile. A whole crew of us were going, so most would walk in the sleigh tracks. Only problem is Viola hasn't been hitched up in almost a year, and has had a stubborn streak now and then ever since she came to live here. She hates leaving the other horses and going out. So when Hannah and neice Melissa were hitching her up she spooked when a nearby space heater started running. This horse, I declare, spooks on purpose when she doesn't want to do something. She's calm as anything when snowmobiles whiz past so long as she's doing what she wants. Anyway, she ran back to the barn at the noise of space heater. Hannah straightened her out and brought her back and she was good as pie (almost) for the rest of the excursion. Took a snowmobile/lumber trail through the woods, crossed an open field (trotting), went down a steep hill beside a gravel pit, and crossed a gravelly creekbed with water running. I thought it was smart of Viola when we went downhill she chose to walk in a foot and a half of snow rather than on the tractor track she had been following earlier. We can only imagine what her experieces were in her first 12 years, how she knew the sled would not push her as hard if she stayed in the deep snow. And of course, what she remembers about running away and getting off from a job she didn't like! On the way home an hour later, going uphill Viola's strength was awesome. She carried Hannah all the way and on the level took up to five people in the sleigh, all with very little sweat. We are learning so much about the wonderful Fjord horse, making our share of mistakes, while confident the coming year will bring even more education for us--and the horses. Thank you all for helping to provide the learning. And best wishes for the coming new year, millenium, etc.! Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: visit
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry I didn't get to meet you and your sister when you came by the farm. We were sorry, too, Bill. Some other time. You are welcome to stop in at our place, anytime. Our farm is only 15 minutes from Interstate 90, 50 miles south of Buffalo, NY. I was not at all disappointed in Ring's small stature, as he is so well balanced. Let us know if you ever have one of his offspring for sale that is small like him, and very gentle. It's not likely we could buy now, but in a year or two we may be ready. So long, Barbara Lyn
Re: dogs?
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I know this is a fjord list, so the dog must get along with fjords and >be on the small side. A Norwegian Elkhound will do everything you asked for, and you can pick a smaller one to mature around 45 pounds. I like Cairne Terriors, too. We used to have them before we decided we needed a bit larger dog to keep the woodchucks off the farm. Courageous little things they are. Our little female used to scare us aweful following rodents into holes where we thought she'd never be able to get back out. Then she'd pull out a woodchuck bigger than herself and try to kill it. The trick to doggies getting along with chickens and cats is early introductions, when the puppy is 7 to 10 weeks old. I think the same would apply to getting them acquainted with horses, though it seemed to be a natural with our Elkhounds when we brought home our first Fjord. "Hey, you from Norway, too?" Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: Gail's Foolish Purchase
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Good, interesting story, Gail. Now I understand. It's not that Romulus wasn't as good as you first thought. I'm glad, because we own his mother Viola, and it's nice to know she has a good boy out there. >I have a JPG of Romulus that Phil sent me that clinched >the deal. It sat on my dining room table for months before I finally >decided to buy him. IF anyone wants a copy - let me know. Yes, please, I'll take one. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: visit
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks, Dave and Pam for giving us the wonderful meal and visit. Pam cooks well! Norma Coli gave us a tour of her farm too, just before dark Monday night. Thanks Norma! Ring is a fine looking older gentleman, and we are attracted to the smaller size for possible handicapped riding in the future. Especially because of his gentleness and durability, as well as the drafty nature of his offspring. And Leik. (I finally learned to say it right-- "lake", now I'm not sure if I spelled it right.) Such a majestic fellow with a beautiful head. His foals faces were the cutest you ever saw. Lindemann, too, is a stallion to remember. Rachel and I were running late (because of all the mountains!) so we got to McWethy's after dark. We went out with flashlights to see Lindemann and all the others. Beautiful Fjords--you could tell even by dark. I liked the Eggeprints mares best, (next to Lindemann). Compact, well balanced, with good rumps. And then Dave told us the story of how one of those mares plus two Ring geldings had taken him in a wagon almost all the way accross the country. What a tribute to the well-bred Fjord horse. They are little, but oh my! We got such an education on that two-day trip to Vermont. Both with the Fjords and the organic dairy farms we visited. And the mountains. Thank you again to Coli's and McWethy's. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: trip to Vermont
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Our farm is just twenty minutes from route 89, you would take exit 2 >northbound. Am wondering if you might be planning to come to Tunbridge >where the Organic Cow lives! It is an organic dairy that processess their >own milk?! We would welcome a visit and our Fjords would love it! Thank you so much for the offer. Since our trip is mostly on cattle business and we're squeezing in the Fjord stops for extra, I can't promise we'll make it. Sure is inviting that you have the Organic Cow nearby! The Fjords would be inviting enough for me, but the sister who is traveling with me (Rachel) is not the one in partnership with me in the Fjord end of the business. (That's Hannah). Rachel is very interested in the Organic Cow, so that makes a stop at your place a possibility. If you can put up with the uncertainty, you may give us directions to your farm, and a phone number so we can call you when we're nearby. It would probably be Tuesday (14th) morning. We would be coming north on 91 from Springfield. Barbara Lyn
Re: Northern Vermont Trip
This message is from: "Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >We are in the north west part of Vermont, about 2 hours from Lindsay and >Jim and would love to have you for a visit. We have received so many wonderful offers to visit that we'll have to pass on most. We are limited to two (maybe three) horsey stops, as the cattle business has to have priority. Just in case we'd have time, could you send us your phone number and we'd call when we're in the area? So many exciting bloodlines, and we have so much to learn! Thank you for your kindness, Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: kissing horses
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ><< Pat, I do not think anyone thinks ill of you for not kissing your horses. I'll speak up now, because it looks like Pat needs an ally :-) I don't kiss horses, nor do I let dogs lick my face. I was brought up in the old school, I guess, where animal affection and people affection are each their own thing. My cows, dogs, and horses get TLC big time, and in return they offer a special solace from the demands of people love--which I also wouldn't want to do without. It's just different. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
trip to Vermont
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi all, My sister Rachel and I are planning a trip to northern Vermont, about 650 miles from where we live in Western New York. It's a multi-purpose trip with stops planned at an organic dairy farm that processes milk on the premises, a Nigerian Dwarf goat farm, and a prison in eastern New York. I'd like to visit a Fjord farm or two while out there if our schedule allows. Anybody care to let me know where you are? Our tentative route is 84 east into Connecticut, then 91 north through Massachusettes and into Vermont. Mr. and Mrs. Coli, how far off the route would you be? I'd like to see Ring. Thanks, Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
what color sleigh?
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello all, My sister brought a nice unpainted sleigh home from a local auction. We're wondering what color to paint it, like what fits best for a Fjord. It's not fancy, and will be used mostly for farm work but we will probably do several winter outings with Viola on it. It has a wooden bench seat wide enough for two and space behind the seat that will hold four milk cans of maple sap. What about black, with a red seat? or blue seat? BTW, Jean up there in Alaska, that's too cold! Here in Western New York we're shivering at the forecast of "high near 30" for Tuesday. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Erlend progeny
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This stallion discussion has been immensely interesting. Being only a year and a half into the Fjord world, many names were new. But when Peg asked to hear from owners of Erlend offspring, that rang a bell! My sister Hannah owns Onalee, a 4-year-old mare by Erlend, and I asked her to give a few words on her. She says, "Onalee is nice-looking, 14.2 hands, deep heart girth and good bone but not stocky. Nice high withers for a Fjord. Kind, but has untiring get-up-and-go. She's a good trail horse--wish someone with more time than myself could enter her into long-distance competition. Otherwise, she cultivates the garden, gives children rides, takes the boys to the far fields to check their traps, and rounds up cows now and then. All this from a horse I trained by myself for the first time." I will add to Hannah's comments the story of Onalee, last year at age 3, giving my 12-year-old nephew Jacob a bareback, unbridled ride in from pasture. She had never been ridden before, and Jacob had mounted her by mistake, in the dark, thinking she was 12-year-old Viola. When he got into the barn and saw the mistake he said, "I didn't know why she was looking back at me like that when I was getting on." Onalee also did a 17-mile competetive trail ride with Hannah this September, and earned some respectable awards. Since Hannah and I are full-time farmers we don't expect to be able to do much with Onalee in the show ring. But we think she is a perfectly conformed Fjord, and are eagerly awaiting a Northeast evaluation. We also had the pleasure of owning, for only three months, a son of Erlend born to our mare, Viola. He is now living it up at Old Hickory Farm, where Julia Will is raising him as a prospective stallion. I just got out Onalee's pedigree and am amazed to see such distinguished names as Baldur, Dragtind, and King Harald. The latter actually appears twice--as a great-great grandsire, and a great-great-great grandsire. And Viola's pedigree is equally exciting! Grabb appears twice, as both third and fourth sire. (did they do more inbreeding in those days?) Her dam is Bella, out of Viola N-13079. I wonder if that is the Elite mare Viola who is Hostar's dam? Viola was imported from Norway by Phil Prichard, and evaluated in New York as a five-year-old in 1991. She received 2nd premium. Evaluator comments were: "harmony in body, moves close in back, good bones." I do not know evaluator language well enough to tell if "moves close in back" is a fault. And, may I add, Viola has the honor of carrying the first United States conceived foal of Flotren, newly imported by Julia Will. We just had her sonogramed and the foal is due Sept. 2000. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: shredded office paper
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Has anyone ever tried shredded office paper for stall bedding? There >are two banks in town that pile up bags and bags of the stuff for the >taking. I'm curious if anyone has experience using this stuff? It works well for cattle stalls and for dog boxes. I'll look forward to hear what others have to say about using it for horse beds. Barbara Lyn
Re: breeders
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> My farrier recently told me of a quote from an article which went something >> like -- the countries with the best horses EAT their horses!! Probably true. I knew an old gentleman who bred rare breed pigs and also stock dogs. He said it's easier to breed good pigs because you can eat your mistakes. Of course that doesn't mean we should start eating dogs and horses. It just demonstrates that we can do the breed a favor by passing tough judgment on our most prized breeding stock. Tomorrow morning we have two young Australian Shepherd brood bitches scheduled for spaying. One is too silly for her age and the other doesn't conceive half the time when we breed her. We haven't been put to the test yet with the Fjords, but I think we're prepared. Barbara Lyn Lapp Family Fjords
Fjord on Board
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Does anyone have a sign that says "Fjord on Board"? I'd like to hang one on the back of the trailer. Last time I made a 3 hour road trip with Viola I noticed other travellers straining to look in the trailer slots as they passed, and I thought they deserve to know what's in there. Barbara Lyn
Re: Hemlock
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >The Hemlock TREE is a evergreen tree much like the >spruce, etc. and is not poisonous. It is used for lumber. Thank you, Jean, for coming to the defense of the useful and NON-poisonous Hemlock Tree. Let me add a few words to the botony lesson. Hemlock is a well-respected lumber here in western New York. My father built our dairy barn with Hemlock from our own woodlot 25 years ago. It is now my place of work, where the cows get milked, fed, and bedded down within its sturdy walls. Then we built our gambrel roof garage with an upstairs office/library in 1994. My brother and I cut the Hemlock trees from our own woods, skidded the logs (too bad we didn't have Fjords back then!) and used the lumber for everything from beams to the interior panelling of the study area. When it was done we dubbed it Hemlock Hall, and announced its purpose as a clearinghouse for "studies of liberty and free enterprise." That's when we started to hear from people who didn't know about the Hemlock tree and knew it only as a poison. Some even suggested we change the name of our place lest we become suspect of hosting suicide meetings. In an effort to educate we sent all the critics a beatiful sprig of Hemlock evergreen leaf (in the middle of winter.) Today the name Hemlock Hall still stands engraved in a slab of Hemlock lumber hung near the entrance of the study area. Its misunderstood name does not deter the searching students of liberty or travel-worn victims of government tyranny who frequently come to visit. Walls and ceilings of polished Hemlock grace the visitors' entrance, and my computor cubicle glows in natural beauty that inspires me to write. Here is a poem I wrote about the honored tree--and that will be the end of my lesson! Hemlock, tree of the forest-- What do you teach us today? Stand beside her, Listen, listen, 'till you hear what she has to say. She's whispering Gently, gently, as the breeze takes her sprigs to and fro. See how her sweeping bough reaches low? Oh, you beautiful evergreen tree! To the lowly, the oppressed, you speak Not deeming your heavenward peak too high To come low with your branches While unwavering, your trunk reaches toward the sky. You lend of your elegance You speak And you listen. Oh, you beautiful evergreen tree Tree of liberty. Her majesty!
Trail ride info
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Finally, I found a phone number to help you get in contact with your nearest trail ride events, clubs, practice, etc. : North American Trail Ride Conference 505-751-4198. --from Hannah
Re: Onalee's trail ride
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hannah writes the following: (she doesn't use the computer, so I type her message--Barbara Lyn) After my first ride I have a few notes to offer on competitive trail riding. I found Onalee (4-yr-old Fjord mare, due to foal in March) well-suited to the task. She is much more energetic than our older Fjord mare, Viola, whom I'm not sure would do so well. Onalee is 14.2 hands, large heart girth, but not extremely drafty. Both she and myself (137 pounds) were carrying a few more pounds than necessary. Although we won some ribbons I feel we could both do better the next time. This summer I asked Julia Will, from whom we purchased Onalee, about the trail ride prospect. Her response was, "Be prepared for a commitment"--the best possible advice. Even with the weeks and weeks of practice and hundred+ miles we covered during conditioning the event itself was a challenge. Part of the trail was actually no trail--just weaving in and out of thorn trees following ribbon markers. Talking to experienced trail riders beforehand is a must. If you put the amount of practice in that you should, shoes are a must on even the best horses' feet where you have gravelly or rocky terrain. The stones will wear them sensitive with the result being the loss of many points or a lame horse at the trail's end. An experienced rider I spoke to remarked that more people are seeing the advantage of heavier muscled horses which do not dehydrate as fast as the popular Arabian-type trail horse. However, the cold-blooded breeds need to be handled slightly differently to avoid loss of points for overheating. They may take longer to cool down. A short, strong, courageous, and sure-footed horse like the Fjord can certainly be a tough competitor on the trail--or just a great teammate for a revitalizing experience. A kind disposition is a big plus, too. If you don't have info on your local trail events, you might start by asking your county 4-H office. Hannah Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Onalee's trail ride
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi list! Onalee and Hannah just came home, 9:00 PM, from the competitive trail ride. Both looked in good shape after the 15-mile-ride and all day event. They brought home awards for horsemanship, general endurance, and, for Hannah, good sportsmanship for helping a girl who fell off her horse. Onalee placed 8th in general endurance, with a group of 30 participants. Hannah had hoped for better than that, but considering Onalee is just 4 and on her first year of work, I think it's not too bad. And it was 80 degrees today. The veterinarian doing the pulse and respiration checks said heavily muscled horses take longer to cool down. He held her back for a 20 minute rest mid-trail, which accounted for most of the loss in score. They placed 2nd in horsemanship, which was a surprise as Hannah and Onalee were both first-timers at professional events. This prompted some pro-Fjord comments among the group of Arab and Quarter Horse participants, Hannah said. Any comments from others with similar trail experience? What do you think of the vet's comments on slow cooling for heavy horses? Best wishes to all you hard workers out at Libby. We like every bit of news coming from there! Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: Elkhounds are nice, too
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Congrats on your new babies. I know Aussies are neat dogs, but I have to >give my Norwegian Elkhound a pat on the back. Go ahead, pat her! We list people really DO have things in common. My sister Rachel and I have been breeding Elkhounds and Aussies for 15 years. Each breed has a unique value here on the farm, and each individual has a spot in someone's heart. My favorite of our seven dogs of both breeds is Skippy, a 7-year-old Elkhound. She kills dozens of woodchucks, possoms, and skunks every summer, comes back to the house every afternoon, and has a heart of gold with people. >My sister has >carefully bred Elkhounds for years since the late 40's (believe it, or not). If you don't mind, Philis, give me her name and address off list. We try to keep track of the best of the breed, and use those genetics for our breeding program. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Re: Off topic brag
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Congrats, Mark, on the Aussie litter. I'm just imaginining... every color in a rainbow... and waiting to see how their personalities develop. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Onalee's challenge
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hannah and Onalee, our 4-yr-old Fjord mare, are gearing up for a 15-mile competitive trail ride on September 12. The Fjord and her mount will be put to the test against accomplished quaterhorses and Arabs. A 7-mile mini version of the 15-mile ride was held a couple weeks ago to prepare 4-H youngsters and inexperienced adults. Hannah fit the latter category--never paticipated in a horse event before, and riding experience was limited to informal farm settings. So she and Onalee had a lot to learn on trial protocol. The other horses there (several dozen--about half the anticipated number for the competition) were all quarter horse of Arabian types, except for one child's Haflinger. Onalee was excited about the company, and eager to go. She took all the logs, ravine banks & rocky creek beds without hesitation and came out of the woods in fine form. Since heart rates and other endurance criteria will be paramount to winning, we have to condition Onalee with hours of trail riding each day. Hannah and our 13-year-old nephew, Jacob, are the main riders and both are enjoying the challenge. A farrier checkup pronounced Onalee okay without shoes at first, but the wear and tear caught up with her so we shod her on front. Hannah says Onalee is undaunted by the steepest ravine banks imaginable, and asks: "How does the rider know where the line is between challenging and dangerous?" Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: thanks Mike
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - I just wanted to thank you for >your seemingly tireless dedication to replying to questions involving the >Registry and Board of Directors, Amen. And you seem to never lose your cool. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Re: Strategic Plan for Evaluations & Evalator Training - A proposal
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Here is proposal from me for input from listers and to the BOD members on the >list. It looks like a good, solid proposal, Cynthia. Thank you. I hope the evaluators make a stop within 200 miles of our place in Western New York. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: Evaluations
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Life is like a river and if you're not still rowing, you're >drifting downstream. Is that a Brian Jacobson original quote? It is so true. >Please don't be threatened by evaluations. They are not something that >is going to condemn those who don't choose to participate. Instead, they >will help us all learn more about our Fjords and allow some to >distinguish themselves and their horses. Let me add, the evaluations offer benefit not only to the owner of the horse but to the "non-evaluating people" who can use the scores as a guide in purchasing breeding stock. Most of all, please don't make >your decision about them until you have all the facts. Hopefully, most >of the facts have been presented these last few days. I still have a few questions. Are evaluations permitted on the owner's farm? And, are there any efforts underway to have scores printed on pedigrees? Barbara Lyn Lapp
Re: evaluations
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Here I come again with my background in purebred dairy cows. "Classifiers," we call the evaluators in cattle language. They come to the farm every seven months and put a score on all of the cows. It's optional, of course, and quite expensive--costs us $400. for 60 cows each time. The payback is in selling breeding stock, which is not important to most "commercial" farmers who make their living just selling milk and getting beef price for their worn out cows. They don't classify. But they are the first to come to herds like ours for breeding bulls whose dams and sires all have classification scores and official milk records. The way I see it, it's a great advantage to the breed to have the evaluation option available. A bit more of a breeders' tool than showing, which tends to compare with other animals rather than breed standards. When we bought our first mare and knew little about the breed except that we loved their temperament and sturdiness, it was a wonderful reassurance to see she had been evaluated by professionals, with scores on different body traits. We felt Julia Will was honest and selling us a good horse but this was quite a bonus! We would indeed be interested in evaluating our other mare--don't think we can drive as far as Virginia though. Barbara Lyn Lapp in Western New York where it tried to rain today but couldn't, and wells are getting low.
Re: breeding 3 yr old fillies
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cows and horses mature very similarly, and to be very >frank, with proper nutrition, it would make no difference in most horses >physically if they were bred at two or bred at three. Thank you, Brian, for this information. Now it's up to us as breeders to use our heads and give our horses the care and consideration they need. Despite your answer, we have no intentions of breeding our now-yearling at two. With cows, of course, there is no need for training before they get down to business with brood rearing for life. That is the biggest practical reason I can see for delaying breeding in horses--to give them time for mental maturity and training. Pardon me for bringing this up again when everyone else has moved to new subjects. I was out yesterday, bringing in honey from the beehives. Got a nice crop of summer honey--about 250 pounds from 6 hives--but had to work till 2:00 in the morning to get it all extracted. If I do it in the daytime bees will find cracks in my honey room and come help themselves to their own product and get in my way. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Re: Stallion Strength
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >As individuals, breeders can do a much superior job of breeding their horses >than can a government controlled agency. We DON'T need the government to >tell us what stallions or mares to breed Thanks, Sarah, for sharing this. Breed assoications can do a fine job of guiding (not controlling) breeding practices. I also liked what someone else--was it Bill Coli?--contributed lately about buyers being a good breed regulator. In other words, if breeders don't produce the right thing they'll lose their market. The biggest danger our breed organization might face would be politicizing within its ranks and limiting the potential of market-driven forces that would keep the breed sound. It has happened in many of the American Kennel Club breeds. With all of these good awareness discussions maybe the Fjords will remain the beauties they are today for many years to come! Barbara Lyn Lapp
Re: Hugin the Seahorse
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sounds like he needs to be in a circus! Barbara Lyn Finally he has all four feet in the tub, bobbing for >the ball, splashing it with his front feet, trying to get it as it floated >between his legs and just having a blast. He finally got the ball and stood >holding it in his mouth, like "Look at me!"
Re: breeding 3 yr old fillies
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This is an interesting discussion. Last year we bought a three-year-old mare with foal at side, meaning she was bred at two. We were entirely new to Fjords but Julia Will told us that was too young (the breeding hadn't taken place at her farm) and that we should give her a break from breeding. She is four now, getting all the training she missed from mothering last year, and she's in gorgeous condition--doesn't seem to have any damage from the early breeding. I spent 20 years breeding registered Holsteins before we even began with horses. In the cattle business we're not afraid of admitting we do what we do for the "green." (I like your forthright manner, Joel.) Of course we breed our heifers at 13 to 15 months so we can get the first calf on the ground before age two-- and the milk that comes with it. Granted, there are a lot of commercial dairies out there that don't mind sending the cow for beef after two lacations. But our cows (and many others) are bred with longevity and what's-good-for-the-cow in mind. We simply don't think breeding a heifer at 2/3 her mature weight will hurt her. In fact the ones that are bred late tend to "overgrow" and founder after calving. Perhaps Doc Brian could tell us, are cows really that different from horses in this respect? Or is it only a difference in human opinion? Afterall, if nature had her way all the three year olds would be running around with foals. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Mike May, please
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mike, I have a question on registry. Could you please respond off list? Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: Silver Dapple and Grey Foals (long)
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Long, maybe, but I read every bit of it, Gail! I hope all the color experts out there speak up. We are currently grappling with the color question, too, on our one-month-old colt (Erlend X Viola). Same thing--if he's gray he has to be a stallion, he is so perfect! He had the eyebrow mark at birth which was supposed to distinguish him as a gray, but that isn't so marked anymore. So it's wait and see how his face sheds out. His dorsal stripe is exactly as you describe yours. Viola's foal last year was also hard to tell for sure on the color until she was several months old. (She's gray now.) Julia Will who breeds grays said it is unusual for it to be so hard to tell color. She suggested Viola, who is a light brown dun, may be carrying a diluted gray gene. Is this scientifically possible? I'm familiar with recessive genes in the Holstein cattle, who will occasionally throw red and white instead of black and white offspring even if both parents are black. But it's cut and dry, and the percentages are established: 25% chance of seeing a red calf if both parents are carriers--50% if one parent is red and one is a carrier--0 chance of a red calf if one parent is red and the other one is not a carrier, but the calf will be a carrier--etc. Anyone have the facts on the Fjord gray gene? Julie mentioned an article on the subject--is it on the NFHR web page? Thanks, Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: Web pages, anyone?
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks, everyone. This quiz was worthwhile, as I got to look at a whole bunch of nice web pages besides sending them on to my friend. Barbara Lyn
Web pages, anyone?
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A lady who saw our Fjords and loves them asked if there's a web page she could look up on the breed. I've seen several good pages from list participants but didn't save the addresses. Would anyone care to post again so I can forward them to the interested lady? Bernadine, I have yours, and sent it to her already. Also, is it a good idea to share this list address with anyone interested? Barbara Lyn Lapp
A name--and color
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Viola's "little prince" has been named Ulend, in honor of his sire, Erlend. And we are *almost* sure he is gray. Congrats, Jean Ruhan, on your new arrival. It took us three days to name ours! The red mom must have added some color to your expectations. Can you usually tell at birth if they'll be red? Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
How big is big?
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Viola's colt weighs 126 pounds. (I cradled him in my arms and stepped on a professional bath scales, then did the math.) He is 40 1/2 inches tall and his face is 13 1/2 inches long. His sire is Erlend. We're negotiating names with Julie and also trying to figure out if he's gray or brown. I'll let you know on that later. For now we're calling him "the little prince," as he is the first male Fjord ever to live on our farm. And Viola is herself again. She and baby had at least 30 visitors today, mostly my neices and nephews. We didn't let anyone stay long as Viola wasn't enjoying it. It's cute to see her protectiveness when we're used to seeing her love everyone who comes. But I didn't think she was very protective when she took her baby out into a thundershower this afternoon. The barn door had been open all day and it was awefully hot and humid. But she waited till it rained to take him out. Guess she knows her business--the little prince is happy as a lark tonight. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Viola
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Viola had a healthy colt five minutes before midnight last night. All seems well now but she worried us tons before it was over. Was slow all the way through birth. She got up once when the nose was out. Next time she laid down we pulled with all our might. Poor thing, she made dozens of pushes before it was out. Then she didn't clean for over an hour and was so miserable throughout, even acting trembly and weak at times. The baby is HUGE. Of course I don't know how big is big. I'll measure and weigh him and have a report by night. Thanks for the advice Doc. It was too late but I'll save it for next time. Barbara Lyn
24 hours ago...
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It has been a long day. Last night this time (8 PM) Viola was waxed and leaking milk off and on when she got contractions. Hannah and I settled down on bales of hay in the barn and read Doc Mettlers chapter on foaling, expecting to see his picture book version happen any minute. But Viola didn't do it, and still hasn't. Right now she is out grazing, acting like nothing would happen. She has us puzzled, but not as worried as earlier in the day before the vet was out. Back to last night, we stayed with her all night. She really looked like she was in labor, and had periods of hard contractions where she would bite her belly and cramp until she nearly laid down. But she always recovered and took a long break before it happened again. We were more than a little worried (besides tired!) by morning and called the vet. He said probably not a true labor and since there had been no blood or fluid not to worry. We sent her out to pasture and she grazed for four hours straight. Then she came back to the barn, poor baby, she was so miserable she was rubbing her nose on my knee in between nibbling her own front feet. Suddenly she was cramping hard again and milk streamed from all four quarters. I ran to get Hannah and we waited again. By noon there was no progress. Hannah did a rectal examination (she does the AI for our dairy herd) and found feet but was pretty sure they were hind feet. We asked the vet to come out right away. It takes him an hour, so Hannah went for a nap. Dr. Rice arrived, cheerful as ever, bringing with him his four little children. He let them follow him right into the pen and told them Viola was very gentle. A few minutes later he gleefully announced it was front feet coming first. "Right now he's sucking my finger," he told the children. (Dr. Rice always says "he" when he's working with an unborn). And the cervix was still closed, he said. Could be another 12-24 hours. The normal exam was such a relief we don't mind waiting one bit. This night Hannah and I are going to take turns sleeping and watching, though. By the way, Dr. Rice mentioned we could give Viola 2cc of Oxytocin and get a foal within an hour. Does anyone think that would be a good idea given her partial labor and periodic hard contractions? Thanks, all, for being there. Thank you especially to Julie for the advice today. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Re: OUR FIRST FOAL HAS ARRIVED
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Every birth is a wonder, Michele, but the first one from a Fjord is unforgettable! And with these babies the joy goes on and on and on. Best wishes to all--mom, baby, and caretakers. Barbara Lyn
Re: Contracted tendons and buttercup
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Trust your horses to be smart enough to >know what to eat - watch what they really DO eat - and act accordingly. > It can save a lot of work. Now that's back to basics! I like it. And thanks, all, for the good information. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Buttercups--foal watch--coyotes
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> We have a lot of buttercup weed in our pastures and are wondering if horses have been hurt by them. They are toxic and can cause abortions in cows--or at least that's what we have believed for generations. The second question is, are they still toxic when dry? The cows and horses leave them back when grazing but now we're cutting pastures and chopping them up for winter bedding supply. We noticed last winter the mares would eat the chopped bedding (nasty stuff!) when we restricted their hay. And, Viola is due in a week! "Foal watch fever" is afflicting Hannah and me. We have a question for the experienced horse people. Does a mare generally follow the same pattern of bagging and preparing to foal? Last year Viola had hardness in her bag and clear "milk" in her teats on her due date, but didn't foal till nearly three weeks later. She had been pasture bred, so may had a different breeding. The rest of Viola's story from last year seems funny now that I've read all of your foal watch posts. We were awfully inexperienced with horses but Hannah and I both are very accurate with predicting calvings in our Hostein cows, and attend nearly all of the 65 births per year. We thought we could tell when Viola was ready. Despite her bag, we weren't getting up at night to check her because she wasn't waxed and didn't have real milk. She was just staying the same, day after day after day. Then one evening I thought her "milk" looked a little cloudy and teats more full. I didn't even tell Hannah as she was away for the night, staying over with our neices whose parents had gone out of town. But then to be sure no bad mistakes happen when Hannah's not home I set my alarm clock for 2:30 am. When I got to the barn Viola's teats were packed full. I stayed to watch for a few minutes and she was, sure enough, in labor--so close I couldn't even go call Hannah on the phone. The foal arrived within 15 minutes, no problems. I think it was luck -- though I'd like to think I'm THAT good :) Now that we're watching again, last year's luck doesn't ease our anxiety much! Last evening coyotes or dogs got into our range chickens in broad daylight before we had cooped them in for the night. Six missing, five found dead. Then I remembered someone here said they had lost a foal to coyotes and I worried Viola would foal when we're not there. We keep her in a "night pasture" close to the barn, but these wild creatures are bold. I think we'll pen her indoors after this. Anybody else have foals coming yet this year? Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords--in western New York where it's hot and dry and the strawberry season is over its peak
Re: Fjord "escapes"
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> When these escape stories and fence-rubbing discussions first started, I thought, smugly, "Our mares don't do THAT!" Then, yesterday, Onalee crossed a four-strand, tightly stretched barbed wire fence. Naughty girl. We didn't see it happen and when Hannah noticed she was in the barn with the rest of the horses she thought I had opened the gate--until later when she noticed the fence in shambles, a post and two wires broken. She asked me, her face sober with fright, "Barbara, did you let Onalee in yesterday?" Onalee came through with only a few scratches. It started when Hannah let the horses (two Fjord mares with two yearling fillies) go out with the heifers to help clean their pasture. When it started to get hot mid-morning she called them in. Onalee thought it was more interested to keep grazing, and didn't come with the others. So Hannah closed the gate on her to teach her a lesson. A half hour later she REALLY wanted to come to the barn with the other horses. Tianna, her filly, was calling her. Well, I don't know if Onalee learned a lesson, but we sure did! Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords
Re: Kudos and long hauler question
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > All the herd members here [and a couple of mares] are = >eagerly awaiting the arrival of their grey friends. And you too, eh? :) Barbara Lyn
Re: Rattlesnakes, electric fence
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I'm seriously considering trying some of >Premier's "rope". My sister Hannah said to tell you Premier's rope is the best, she's used it on the cattle pastures for several years. Also, Premier is a good company to work with, she said. Barbara Lyn
Re: Wildfires
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Jean in Hot Dry Fairbanks, Alaska, 91 degrees today and 21 1/2 hoursa >sunshine! Jean, I am getting such an education about Alaska! Last winter I kept printing out your moose stories, cold temperature readings, etc. Now you're even hotter and dryer than western New York. I'm printing this out for my children's summer geography lesson. Barbara Lyn Lapp
Re: Foals
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Have been to farms where the mares and their foals aren't separated, >they seem to get along fine, with only a few signals now and then to >back off, or else. >Let me know of your experiences please. Last year Viola and Onalee were together with their foals, born one day apart, after they were one week old. They never had any problems, and the babies played endlessly. This year Viola is due in July and Onalee not until next spring. Don't know if this will make any attitude or jealousy problems, but we intend to keep the herd together and keep watch. Barbara Lyn
Re: small? Pony? Horse?
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (Doc Brian wrote)>I agree with you that it's unfortunate that we (people) get so fixated on size. Please, can someone help me out with the full text of what Bill said in this discussion? I must have gotten trigger happy with my delete button and missed this post, a very interesting topic to me. Doc, I like your comments on intelligence and personality. Barbara Lyn
for sale; and wanted
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (1) We have a yearling filly for sale. (2) Our neighbor wants (not-expensive) pair of fjords First, the filly is Tianna, out of Onalee and Elof. Onalee is an Erlend daughter, expected to mature at 14.2 hands, eager worker and agile. Elof (recently passed away) was a 15-hand Grabb grandson. Tianna is smart and friendly (aren't all fjords like that?!), a plucky little girl that doesn't mind trying new things when asked. She is long legged and fast moving, always outrunning her yearling pasture mate in their playful competitions. Tianna's asking price is $3300. Second, an aging neighbor of ours wants a pair of Fjords to replace his black percheron team he trained himself. He has a small farm and does most of the work with his team, and expects the fjords would be able to accomplish what needs to be done. He's willing to take young, old, or untrained in order to start without too much money, he said. At this time he has only $5,000. He's a gentle old man and would make a fine caretaker, however I wouldn't recommend he gets anything wild as he is not strong. Barbara Lyn Lapp Lapp Family Fjords Cassadaga, New York -- where New York meets the north-western Pennsylvania border and almost touches Ohio.
Re: Short horses??!
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >So how about it, anyone have any SHORT Fjords they want to brag upon? I >can't have the only one out there, can I??! I've heard "Ring" in Massachusetts is only 13-some. And there's a nice picture of him in the Spring Fjord Herald. I saw an attractive small mare at Julia Will's place one time, boarded there for breeding, I think. Sometime I want a 13 hand, very gentle Fjord for my brother-in-law who is crippled in his legs. I wonder if Ring has any offspring small like himself. I've heard he has a special temperament. Hang in there! Great things come in small packages. Barbara Lyn
Re: Announcement!
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >My exciting news is that MVF Erlend is moving to our farm! Congratulations, Peg! Erlend is the sire of our beautiful mare, Onalee, and our old mare, Viola, is currently in foal to him. He will be missed here in the northeast. Best wishes, Barbara Lyn Lapp
The hen and the horse
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Onalee (our Fjord mare) came into the barn one day after a workout cultivating peas. In one corner of the pen, just where she wanted to go for some rest, was one of Hannah's hens with a clutch of two-day-old chicks making their first discoveries in life. Onalee's big feet approaching was too much so they ran to mother, complaining, "peep, peep," to which mother hen responded with an attack on the offending feet, latching herself onto a front leg with beak and claws while flapping her wings. Onalee, still tired from working, looked a bit perplexed, turned, and started walking slowly back out into the hot sun. Mother hen wanted her to go faster (When I say SCAT, I mean SCAT!) and flung herself at poor Onalee's back feet in the same manner until Onalee was all the way out of the barn. Then she went back to her peeps and called them to a "safer" spot in the barn. And Onalee soon returned to the shade of her favorite spot. Barbara Lyn from Lapp Family Fjords where the farm animals roam in a century-old barn and amuse the farm's people
Re: Norway
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >This year, of the 13 >five year olds scheduled for station testing, 2 were immediately eliminated >because they were cribbers, and four of the remaining 11 lost their >temporary license and were eliminated because their station testing was not >good enough. Four were awarded a 3rd Premium, and 3 received a 2nd Premium And you didn't even tell everyone that one of those 3 is coming home with you. Julie, you're *too* modest! Barbara Lyn
Re: Fjording directory
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thank you, Merek. I always wanted to see an Icelandic. One of my sisters is married to a Maya Indian man who is 5' 11" and has been partially crippled from his waist down since age 16. He has fond memories of riding wild Spanish cow ponies in his native land before he became stricken with a rare spinal condition. He rides our Fjord mare, Viola, now and then, but someday I'd like to get something smaller for him and their 3 children. (They're all petite, but wonderfully talented.) Maybe a small, gentle Fjord would do, but I've been thinking of an Icelandic. It's in the dream stage right now, as they don't have a barn yet. They repair and sell lawn equipment for a living, but also own enough land for a horse. Barbara Lyn
Re: the things people say
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I haven't heard anything that mean about Fjords! Last year when we brougth our mare home traffic was stopping on the road. When she had her baby in June it was like having a zoo. Now that spring is here and they're out on pasture again not-too-shabby looking the sightseeing is starting over again. By the way, does anyone know if Shire crosses are used for police duty? I was at the Albany Statehouse today for a Patriots Day rally. The mounted police were there with a spectacular black horse that looked like a Shire but not "drafty" enough. (A Fjord would have looked even better. But I wouldn't lend my pony out for all the...) Barbara Lyn
Re: foaling
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Hopped in the shower, went out to throw hay, and there he >was...already on his feet! He's a beauty! His name is OH Usar (oo' sar). Congrats to you and Braggen! What's Usar's sire? >We use the Dutch system for naming and this the "U" year. I like that. Do you have a list of names for all your 1999 babies? We want use a "U" name for Viola's baby this year. Not the easiest letter to pick from. Barbara Lyn (Waiting to hear of your next experience--but get yourself some sleep first)
Re: The Great Escape II - Fjord Myth VS Reality
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Fact: Fjords are sensible [and very curious...] Great story! And great depiction of Fjord character. Barbara Lyn
Re: Stubborness
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It's a smart kind of stubbornness. Viola seems to contemplate her right to make *some* decisions on her own. Whether she stays in the barn, for instance, while Onalee goes for riding. When she gets scolded for trying to push through the gate she'll sulk for half an hour. Smart girl. My cows will snort or shake their heads if they don't get their way but they don't have the brains to stay on the subject for half an hour. There's a difference in Fjords, too. My neices say Viola's yearling, Tulie, is stubborn. They like Onalee's baby, Tianna, better. She's sweet and listens more easily to their youthful voices. But Tulie is a very thoughtful little horse, I think, and simply wants to retain the right to decide before she obeys. It will be interesting to see how this difference in character will affect their more advanced training. By the way, I'm enjoying the "arriving foals" stories! Keep them coming. Barbara Lyn
Re: Greetings!
This message is from: "Nathan Lapp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jan, and welcome! Our Fjords also came from Julie Will, where my sister Hannah first saw a real Fjord exactly a year ago. Within two months we brought home a mare, who had a foal in June. And by July, somehow, there was another mare and another foal in the clan! There is lots of learning ahead, but Julie always makes us feel like we're doing okay. The members of this list have taught us much, too. >From Barbara Lyn in western New York where the Fjords aren't even muddy because there's still snow.
to Misha, on temperament
This message is from: Nathan Lapp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> misha nogha wrote: I suppose I am going to get a lot of flack for this comment, but I had to say it. I once gelded a stallion I had, not a Fjord, who had nearly perfect conformation, was a super athlete, but was a real nasty fellow. Good for you! Too many breeders don't have the guts, or the honesty, to see and admit mistakes in breeding. I haven't been in the horse business long enough to know breeders' policy on this, but my sister Rachel and I have extensive experience with dogs. Australian Shepherds, in particular, have been bred too much for color and show performance. Their owner/breeders will make any number of excuses for bad temperament--he bites because he had a bad experience as a pup; someone kept her tied too much; they don't like men because they were once abused by a man; etc.. This highly intelligent, high performance breed now has a bad reputation for disposition. Because, I believe, too many breeders didn't have the courage to cull when their dog bit. I know how it feels--you lose sleep thinking about ending this beautiful dog's breeding career, or worse, having him put down. But it's a must in responsible breeding. An old gentleman who used to own an animal research and breeding farm once said that the nice thing about breeding pigs versus dogs is that "you can eat your mistakes." Barbara Lyn
Re: Cold weather horse problems
This message is from: Nathan Lapp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jean Ernest wrote: > BTW you should check out the "Arctic Cam" on the Fairbanks NewsMiner page > this morning! Ice fog! and if you notice, there are a couple cars that > have been abandoned in the parking lot for the duration! I'm enthralled by your weather reports! Living in western New York slightly inland from the shores of Lake Erie, we're used to some of the biggest snow stories. Buffalo had 50 plus inches in January. But the cold--we can't beat it! I'm tempted to see how it feels. -22 is the lowest on record for our farm. Today was gorgeous, 45 degrees and sunny with just enough snow left in the open fields to take Viola out on the sleigh. Barbara Lyn Lapp
