harness
This message is from: reinbow...@vermontel.net I too love Greg Hunt harness, but Tish is correct if you don't enjoy daily cleaning stay away from leather brass. I pleasure show and Combined drive in my Zilco harness and have won plenty. I still have a pair Zilco that was heavily used for years and is still serviceable. I have never had a Zilco piece break and in Combined driving you unfortunately hit stuff occasionally in the hazards and my Zilco has stayed together. It looks great is very easy to clean and affords me more time driving and less time cleaning. One caveat, I would never use Zilco at Walnut Hill which is all about tradition and turnout but for most every other show my Zilco is just fine. As a judge I'm much more interested in correct fit than whether or not the harness is leather or not. The Road cart I have in Florida is still for sale for $800, lamps and brackets are $400. I'm taking it over to Live Oak for Harvey to try and sell but he's adding $400 to the price as the cart is still a bargain at $1200. So if you are interested in a great deal get in touch with me on my cell 802 376-4913. Vivian Creigh This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Training a colt
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/11/01 4:07:22 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: theirs no guarantee your horse will assume you have changed - unless you go with him to be trained. Tamara has hit the nail on the head so to speak. If you are a novice you will need training as well as the horse. This applies to handling, riding and driving, in fact most anything you aspire to do. If you don't know how to do it don't expect even the best horse to teach you. Many of the canter problems people have spoken about on the list are directly related to the inability of the rider to actually canter. A green horse with a novice rider banging up and down on it's back while jerking it's mouth will not elicit the kind of behaviour either one of you is looking for . It takes a fair amount of abdominal strength and muscle memory to achieve independent seat and hands. The money you spend on lessons for yourself will make all the difference in your success with a young horse. JMHO Vivian Creigh
Re: winter colics
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have just read the posts on colic and I am so sorry for all of you who have lost horses. It is always a terrible shock. Without necropsies it is very hard to determine exactly what killed some of these horses as there are many reasons horses colic and it's quite possible these episodes weren't all colics. Juultje had an epiploic feranum encarceration of the small intestine. This type of colic happens when a small peice of intestine gets trapped in the feranum a small slit next to the small intestine and due to the constrictive action of the feranum more and more intestine gets pulled through the feranum and dies. It did happen during a period of unsettled weather in August, severe thunderstorms and torrential rain but blaming it on a plunging barometer is just supposition at this point Surgery is the only way you can properly diagnose and treat this occurence. The dead intestine is cut off and the healthy ends are spliced back together. There are horses who have lost as much as 40 feet of intestine who are saved and live normal lives although there is no guarentee that this won't happen again. When I found her early in the morning, less than 6 hours after I had seen her eating and drinking and acting quite normal she was quite shocky and her temp was 95. She lost 18 feet of intestine and survived surgery only to go down 10 hours later and die quickly from complications and stress. There was nothing anyone could have done to save her from this as it is just a design flaw in the equine, as if they don't have enough already. The vets at Tuft's said this type of colic represents approx. 20% of the surgical colics that they see. Ofcourse there are many horses who die of this colic that never make it to a surgical facility and so it remains undiagnosed. Vivian Creigh
Re: Distance
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In competitive driving and riding I have never placed less than second in any competitve ride or drive. BDF Birte and I completed over 12 competitive drives and rides of 25 to 30 miles in the late 80's and we were Champion four times and placed reserve or first 5 times. Lee Alexander's Arab/Belgian cross Crystal Minthas won the VT 100 mile Competitive Three Day Twice. And Crystal is a big bodied mare. Heat is an issue for every breed of horse. A savvy horse person can prevail if they have done their training and know how to take care of their horse. I say go for it with a Fjord.
Check out Equine Reproduction Links
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Click Here: A HREF=http://www.equine-reproduction.com/link.htm;Equine Reproduction Links/A Peg and all of you considering breeding this coming season Merry Christmas! This is a very interesting site devoted to all things relating to equine reproduction. Very dense informational site will take all of the holiday seaon to read. Again Happy Holidays Vivian
Re: Various
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/19/00 2:16:58 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Definitely have to train Erlend to a dummy now that his favorite surrogate, Pepper, has left. Also have to put some thought into the appearance of the dummy. One breeder told me that she has to caution people who wear a certain color around her stallion Peg, The first year I owned Marnix He attempted to mount the hood of our lawn tractor after deciding that it was the right shape. I was standing there holding him, talking to my daughter who was sitting on the seat of the tractor when I realized he was getting a little puffed up and starting to gently elavate his front end trying decide just how to approach this new phantom. Then in the winter I was standing in the barn next to my sleigh which was covered with an old cooler when he tried to mount the back of the sleigh from the side. I'm sure the aroma of the cooler was the guiding force behind his lust. Now he has his very own phantom and is very happy with her. She is always exactly where he left her last, doesn't kick or move and is always receptive. We covered all the mares AI in 2000 and both Marnix and I are much happier with this arrangement. I don't even put a mare in the tease chute anymore as by the time he's been washed he knows the drill and was always going to the mount anyway and ignoring the mare in the chute, ususlly much to the mares dismay. The Colorado Mount is the best because I can collect all by myself. I attended a repro clinic in Middlebury VT several years ago. They even let us inseminate mares with water to practice. I found the whole thing incredibly interesting as it appealed to the latent scientist lurking within. Marnix's whole demeanor at shows last year was incredibly layed back because he knew his real true love was in the paddock at the back of the barn waiting for him. Wesley and I have been trying to think up a suitable bimboish name for the phantom. Anyone on the list have any good ideas? We are expecting 8 inches of snow tonight which is great because I need a Christmas card picture immediately and also some snow to cover the sheet ice covering all my pastures and paddocks. Both my littles are out of school so now the season has begun in earnest..Merry Christmas to AllVivian Creigh
Check out The Horse Interactive -- T imely Tips for Aug. 2
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Click Here: A HREF=http://thehorse.com/timely_tips/tips_overproduce.html; The Horse Interactive -- Timely Tips for Aug. 2 /A
Re: Tail brushing
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I really had to weigh in on the tail issue. As some of you may know, Marnix has a very bountiful tail. On marathon day I used to try a conventional mud wrap. braid to the end and fold over and wrap the whole thing with vet wrap. However it's so heavy that it would sort of be like having a baseball bat hanging from his butt. It almost always worked partway out and looked goofy. Now we just braid and fold the bottom and wrap strategically with vet wrap and electric tape. Whenever he gets burdock in his tail I spray with Show Sheen and brush and handpick. I also use Cowboy Magic after a shampoo. His tail is so thick and full that it sometimes takes 1/2 an hour to get it untangled but he loves being primped. I have never had a Fjord object to having his/her tail handled and when I am starting them in harness I make a point of gently holding the entire tail straight up and out of the way. In the beginning some have tried to clamp their tails down but I have found that if you gently prevent them from doing this they eventually give in and relax. This makes it so much easier to put the crupper on and make sure that all those little short hairs are free from being stuck under the crupper which I imagine could become quite annoying if not down right uncomfortable. Having a horse who will let you push his tail up and out of the way also makes taking their temperatures much easier. When doing mane trims I always brush out their tails and bang the bottom as handpicking is way too time consuming for a barn full. Haven't read Carol's book so don't have a clue as to why she doesn't brush tails except maybe because it does breaks the hairs off. Most of my Fjords have pretty lavish tails and losing some hair now and again isn't quite the disaster it might be in other breeds. I am always grateful that I don't have to pull their tails as is the norm in ridden eventing. Vivian Creigh
Re: Coggins Tests
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nancy, This has been a law in Vermont for many years and I have never been asked for a Coggins. In fact in 13 years I've been stopped only once because one of my tail-lights wasn't working and the policeman being a horse owner just wanted me to be aware of the problem, no ticket, no checking of Coggins. I wouldn't panic yet as the police generally have more to deal with than checking livestock papers. Although it's pretty chilly in the mornings we have been having some really nice sunny weather in Vermont. Hope it lasts. Happy Thanksgiving, Vivian Creigh
Re: Just Checking
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Steve and List, I actually think it's refreshing to see a slow day on the list as it must mean that we all have the kind of hectic life style I cope with. Aren't we all supposed to have more leisure time? I haven't found this to be the case yet. Probably never happen Anyway, just returned home from Equine Affaire.Stood in line for 1/2 hours just to get in so unfortunately missed the Fjord demo at 11:30. Ran to ADS booth where I actually signed up 5 new members in my three hours in the booth. Saw Sue Richard Giargiari at the Fjord booth and so many other friends from eventing, dressage as well as driving. The place was jumping. Dave McWethy was driving tonight and I had to come home and get my son ready to take SSATs tomorrow. Pep talks and special attention to keeping calm in the face of total disaster!!! Only kidding. I have decided to sell my 6 yr. old Konggard daughter out of a Brusvein mare, who is foal to Marnix for a late May baby. She rides and drives has been in a pair as well and is a nice mover and a nice looking individual. Her older sister has done very well for her new owners in eventing and dressage. If anyone is interested please call me at 802 885 5762. Have a happy weekend, Vivian Creigh
Change of venue for arena driving trial in VT
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well my show manager (hahaha) and I went over to take a look at the indoor where I had planned to hold the trial and we decided it was perfect except for a lack of decent parking that we thought we could work around until the woman who works for the owner mentioned that there would be two portable 10x10 horse stalls in a corner of the indoor arena. Since this would have been quite problematic in driving the dressage test and taking them down for the day along with removing the mats would clearly be a giant head ache we have decided to hold it at my farm in Springfield VT. We are shooting for Sunday, December 3, but if the weather is a problem we hope that we can reschedule on Saturday and entrants will be flexible enough to come either day. As it stands we have December 10th as a back up date on the entry forms. We 'll start at 8:30 am sharp and because we are running the hazards in the small fenced ring and cones next to dressage there will be no waiting while we set up and rebuild stuff. Our house will be open for bathroom use and warmth and food etc so it actually should workout much better for all. Lots of trailer parking up by the barn where there is water. I hope to see some people from this area come with their Fjords or whatever driving breed they have as it is for a good cause. The Longs are facing huge medical bills for Milton's care and all the help they can get is going to be greatly appreciated. Already have 5 entries and we will except 20 so if this is something any of you are interested in please give me a call and I'll get the info to you asap. Vivian Creigh Tel# 802 885 5762
Re: Arena Driving Event in VT Dec. 3rd
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you Debby for posting it for me. I am not a regular CD-L subscriber anymore (too much mail)but I scan the archives in the morning and saw it on there. I hope some of you New Englanders will come with Fjords. I noticed the High Prarie results were up on list and was wondering if any Fjords competed there? Beth Sandy is High Prarie near you? I'll be at Equine Affaire on Friday to do a stint in the ADS booth and catch the Fjord demo. I understand Barbara Howard made some beautiful costumes for the kids. Looking forward to window shopping and seeing some friends. Vivian Creigh
Re:Arena Driving Event in VT Dec. 3rd
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On December 3, 2000 there will be an Arena Driving event, a mini CDE squashed to fit into an indoor arena, being held at Lull Brook Farm in Hartland VT about 2 miles from GMHA (Green Mt. Horse Assoc.). All the proceeds from this event will be donated to Bill and Linda Long to help with cost of Milton's medical expenses. Entries limited to 15, Training and Preliminary levels offered. Hazards timed for Training. Dressage test 1 for both levels. For more information please call Vivian Creigh , 802 885-5762. P.S. Could someone from this list post this on the CD-L list for us.
Re: THE DUTCH KEURINGS -This is in you face !!!!!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bashing people in a public forum is way out of line, especially given the fact that much of what is said is based on innuendo and not fact. How many of you bashers actually got off your opinionated behinds and made the effort to attend a keuring? Do you always shoot your mouths off on subjects that you haven't bothered to research? What insight do you feel you have to offer to those who actually made this effort? Perhaps Mr van Bon does have a reputation in other countries for the high prices of Fjords in The Netherlands. Is this jealousy talking, or is it possible that Mr van Bon knows the value of the horses he is representing? And perhaps he very well does have an agenda--that of selling quality horses to other countries. As an employee of the studbook, isn't this part of his job? When someone does his job better than anyone else, why is it that we wish ill of them and their success? I have imported many horses from Holland, and I have been extremely pleased with the guidance I have received from Bob. He has many friends and fellow judges in Norway with whom he has judged in the past. I hardly think this man can be portrayed as the scourge of the Norwegian Fjordhorse. On the contrary, he is their most ardent supporter and fan. He is tireless in his work for his studbook and will be a difficult man to replace. He and Joke, his wife, and Albert Wezeman, who was also a judge at the keurings recently held here in the US, couldn't have been more supportive of the horses and their owners. They gave us all an opportunity to show our USA-based Fjords off to the best advantage of each horse. As far as the Dutch system not having a score for temperament, that is simply not true, as anyone attending a keuring would probably know. Scores are given for obedience and character in all of the ABOP tests. The horse must stand still without a header in all tests for harnessing, saddling, mounting, and putting to. In the riding test, the horse is dismounted and remounted. The horse is suppossed to remain standing--period. In the driving test, you hitch, drive the test and unhitch, ground drive the horse in a figure eight, and rehitch again. This is all done in a relatively open space WITHOUT HELP Any horse that receives an A or AA in these tests would make an excellent using horse. Believe me, I have had many well-trained horses misbehave in hand. Any horse that can get an 8 or 9 (or 10) for obedience in an ABOP test is a terrific horse, and a horse that won't stand cannot get an A. Come on people--these keurings were held as an educational tool for anyone interested. You didn't have to bring a horse to attend. The two announcements in the Herald were bought and paid for by myself, with help from others who took part. I have a phone, and at any time anyone interested could have called me for more info. I spent a lot of time and money sending out announcements to the entire membership of the NFHR,who, by the way, was less than supportive and apparently still holds that position. Keurings have been and continue to be a part of the European Norwegian Fjordhorse tradition for countless decades, whether Americans care to acknowledge this or not. The reason we have any good Fjords at all in our country is because of this European heritage, not because Americans have decided to make what they falsely perceive to be improvements in the breed. I'm an American,too. And, in fact, it is my greatest desire to represent my country at the World Championships in France in 2003 with a Fjord, which would certainly lend the breed a needed boost in this country as the great performance breed it is, as well as the wonderful family horse we all know it to be. I am also an ardent supporter of the Dutch system and its judges. The American equivalents of each at this point in time are wannabees--and could have learned a lot by attending an evaluation by real experts. This recent thread of derisive comments aimed at people with far more knowledge than anyone presently residing in this country is petty and meanspirited.It is fueled by jealously and self interest perhaps, which can only hurt the breed's future here in North America. Stop the judgmental crap that's been spewing and applaud any interest to better our breed! And don't construe this as me wanting a pat on the back. There were many of us who brought horses to this forum, and all of us came away with a better understanding of what the correct Fjord horse is and should be. Many horses presented and evaluated had no link to Holland and yet faired extremely well. Just exactly how does this fit into Mr. van Bon's perceived agenda? What I saw was every Fjord evaluated as an individual. I am very disheartened by what I have read today on this list. I am tired and burned out from a long showing season and the knowledge that winter is fast approaching here in
Re: THE DUTCH KEURINGS -This is in you face !!!!!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry I actually edited the dog food remarks made by husband whom I still support. I've said my peace/piece and stand firm. Have a Happy winter.Vivian Creigh
Re: Breed standard
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike, I rather doubt that my friend lied to me about the cost being $17. Perhaps her lab is cheaper, I really don't know, but that's what they pay in the Dartmoor registry. Vivian
Re: Breed standard
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ursula, I think these are very interesting points and one about white markings was actually brought up at the Dutch keuring here in VT last weekend. The Dutch studbook allows no white markings at all not even a small star on the stallions, however they will allow a small, quarter size maybe guilder size in the Netherlands, on the mares, however if two mares in the same class have equal points in conformation and way of going the mare without the white marking will stand first or in front of the mare with the star marking. Also the Dutch will not give a breeding premium to a stallion with any deviation in his bite. Horses that have received breeding premiums in the Netherlands receive a certain color papers or passport while those that have not been evaluated or have not received a breeding premium receive a different color so that when someone goes to breed or sell these horses the buyer will know that the horse has not been evaluated or is not of breeding quality. While I think this system is certainly worthwhile I know that it would never fly here in the N.America. Also the fees the Dutch studbook charges for DNA and microchips is about half or less of what we charge in the NFHR. I was talking with a friend who breeds Dartmoor ponies down south and she told me that it costs them $17 to DNA their ponies. That's quite a difference from the $60 we pay. Why such a huge difference? Our beautiful weather has finally come to an end and it's raining here in VT. Wet snow expected this weekend. Ugh. Hope everyone else outside of New England is enjoying some lovely fall weatherVivian Creigh
New England Dutch keuring
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, List, Well the Dutch keuring/evaluation is over and I know all of us who participated are very glad we did. I will post all the results when I get them back from Bob when they are all through, but I do remember the stallions. Konggard was awarded a 3rd premium (2nd premiums are awarded as a result of the quality of the stallions offspring) and received an A on his driving test and a B on his riding test. LLA Hilmar recived a third premium and an A on his Draft test, B on his driving test, and an unfortunate D in his riding test, because he was not well prepared for the test and it was much more difficult than the woman riding him had anticipated. I know that next time he will do much better in both riding and drivng. Let me say that the riding test has alot of depth and canter work in a small dressage arena and then jumping a verticle and oxer at the canter in both directions and then out in a 30 acre field with the other stallions for a trail test where they must lead follow and wait while the others go ahead. At one point all the stallions were going three abreast across the field within feet of one another and it was a very impressive test. Unfortunately Marnix blew getting a AA in riding because he was naughty in the rear of the group as being last has never been his strong suit. Richard Giargiari handled LLA Hilmar in Draft and the first mark is for obedience and character in harnessing and hitching. With Richard in control and no one heading this horse he got a 9. Everyone cheered when they heard the results. Hilmar also had the biggest testicles of all the stallions which is important and also made Richard very proud.HAHA I can breath a sigh of relief as I report that Marnix also got a third premium and an A in his riding and AA in his driving which makes him a Prestatie and Model stallion. He hadn't been ridden by Kathy Bruce since last May and had never been jumped (at least since I have had him), but I knew that unless he got an A in Riding and an A either driving or draft he could not be Prestatie or Model so at the last minute I had Kathy ride him for me. I'm pretty glad I did. It was because of all the ridden dressage he has done in past years that he was well prepared for the riding test and because Kathy has ridden him a good deal and is a very accomplished rider. She ended up riding 5 horses for the riding ABOP. One of which she had never ridden before. My daughter got on this same mare Rodika and jumped her in test and got an 8 for jumping On Friday we did about 23 mares, youngsters and geldings in hand and in tests. It took all day and we just finished the last riding tests as it was getting dark. Phil Juran had a high score Erlend daughter out of MVF Stine. Ceacy had the highest scoring yearling by Konggard and Marnix's baby sister Nanja was high score for the older mares. The three of us got individual medallions and a group picture which hopefully will go into the Dutch newsletter. International stars. Thruout the weekend it was amazing to see the insight and depth of knowledge these judges had when looking at not only Fjord horse type but just horses in general. Things learned from years and literally 1000s of horses evaluated. Albert Wezeman who accompanied Bob and Joke designs special equipment for theraputic handicapped programs in the Netherlands. He has designed a cage that goes over and around the horse being driven from a seat behind. Over the horses back there is a hammock where profoundly disabled people ,who can not sit up at all, can lie close to the horses back while feeling the movement and warmth of the animal. Hopefully I can get pictures scanned and a brief explanation from Albert to publish in the Herald. I read the list briefly before I took the judges to the airport for their trip to Ann Stifels where they will do an on farm evaluation and then on the Brian Jacobsen's and from there to California to Margaret's and Barry's Village Farm. On the way to the airport I asked them about the recent discussion on the roan spots some of us have seen in the winter coats generally somewhere in the saddle area. Joke said that they also have seen this and have no explanation for it and were perplexed by it and wished they knew why it happened but felt that it was not due to any injury or circulation problems due to ill fitiing tack. So it's a mystery. I want to thank all the people who helped me during the keuring and all those who brought horses for evaluation. The weather was absolutly gorgeous and I hope everyone had a great time and learned as much as I did. Sue G. videotaped the whole thing and Lindsay Sweeney videoed the stallions on Thursday. So we have a great record of the event. Thanks again. Now it's back to work as we have leaf peeping friends due on Wednesday. Vivian
Myopia CDE ASHA Pony Ch. Brag....
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well Marnix and I are back from Myopia with some great news and some sorta newsHere goes. Dressage we scored a 32.7. This was the lowest dressage score for all divisions and classes. This included Larry Poulin, Lisa Singer and many other notables from all the classes, Advanced, Intermediate and Prelim The judges were from England, California and Canada. The buzz was that Marnix outclassed them all. Three trots and loads of Upper level stuff that no one had ever seen in a Fjord on three continents. One night of being on top was very sweet. However, Marnix has been having some issues with sec. E and after 5 hazards he quit on me going up a hill out of Hazard 6. I put Wes, my daughter down and the minute she got to his head he trotted up the hill and finished hazard 7 also very up and down with no issues. He made his times in all 5 sections even with his naughtiness in #6. Unfortunately he dropped to 7th. He was in excellent shape after both vet checks in fact his temp. pulse and respiration were better than most of the comp. in his class. so fitness is not the issue. Damn, smart ponies.. Today in cones standing 7th I had nothing to lose so Marnix and I drove a wonderfully forward go. We dropped 3 balls but had no time penalties and won cones Everyone else had balls and time moving us up to 4th. So Marnix won two phases of the ASHA Pony Championships, and I couldn't be more thrilled. I will take him to Fair Hill at the end of October, which is only a three sec. and we will try and sort his issues out, but winning dressage and cones is more than enough for me. There were 9 ponies competing. I go to win but 4th was a sweet victory for me I met a wonderful man at Myopia Klaus Biesenthal, driving a fab German Riding Pony stallion, who had farmed witrh Fjord's in Germany and he was totally entranced with Marnix. He gave me some sound advice on getting through our sec. E problemsand I look forward to visiting him in Illinois. We spoke at length about breeding and keurings and he was a man of such knowledge as he farms with his ponies as well as breeding Holsteiners for dressage that I really look forward to picking his brain. All in all I am pleased with the weekend, how can you be not with a 32.7 in dressage under an International panel of judges? Enoungh for now my husband needs a hug for taking care of the farm and I need to get some sleep Vivian Creigh
Brag Alert of the mother/daughter kind
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Totally unrelated to Fjord's but pretty cool from a proud mother's viewpoint. My daughter in her third Training Level event on her TBX, WON! out of sixteen Open Juniors. Wesley bought this horse as a green broke 5 year old, not yet on the bit and has totally made her all by herself. Their dressage is really improved and she has been placing near the top every time out this year in both Novice and Training, but Wes has been plagued by one pulled rail in every stadium at both levels. Now that the fences are bigger their jumping partnership has really strengthened and this little mare has a huge jump when Wesley keeps her up and forward. On the second element in the triple the mare jumped huge and Wes managed to readjust herself through the one stride to the third fence and flew over it. It was a very difficult stadium course. Cross country is their best phase and they had a beautiful go. Also Penfryyd's Nykka a Konggard daughter out of Freya by Brusvein was at the event with a very Novice rider who did a very credible job. Although we missed stadium yesterday we saw the pictures today and Nyyka was jumping them as if they were Training Level fences with her little knees cranked up around her ears. They didn't go Cross Country until 4:20 today and Wes and I needed to get home so she could do homework and I could drive Marnix as the ASHA Advanced Pony Combined driving Championships starts next Thursday at Myopia and there are an astonishing 9 Advanced Single Ponies!!! I am totally exhausted, but the whole family is pretty happy about Wes and Shannon's (her Horse) win so I think we shall have sweet dreams tonight. Congratulations to all the Fjords doing so well in Open competition's across the country. Vivian Creigh
Re: CAUTION - BEFORE YOU GO TO LIBBY AND TURLOCK
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Gail my deepest sympathies, and to Steve thanks for your post to clarify some things... About three weeks ago my wonderful mare Juultje colicked and died 10 hours post surgery. She had an epiploic farenum encarceration of the small intestine which can only be diagnosed and corrected surgically. The Post mortem indicated that she possibly suffered from clots which caused sloughing of her colon possibly due to the metabolic stresses relating to the colic I found her at 5:30AM cast in a sawdust pile against the barn. She was turned out at 8PM the previous night in a large pasture with her friends and the last time I saw her she was taking a long drink at the trough and appeared quite normal. Originally when I found her I thought that she was trembling because of muscle fatigue due to being cast however since we know she couldn't have been cast too long because we can hear everything through out open bedroom door(it was the banging against the barn that woke me) and her temp was 95 degrees I quickly realized that she was shocky probably due to colic and had gotten cast as a result of rolling to relieve the pain. I called the vet administered some banamine, put a rug on her and began walking her for 2 hours before my vet could get to me. No one's fault just life...I wasn't the first emergency that morning even at that hour. When my vet arrived we gave her IV fluids, tried tubing her with little success and finally discussed shipping to surgery. I asked my vet several times if she thought the mare would live even though I knew she could not answer this question with any degree of certainty. with my husband's help we decided to try and get her to Tufts Univ. 2 1/2 hours away. I rode on the trailer with her so I could continue IV fluids and give her more sedative if she became frantic so she wouldn't pull out her gastrointestinal tube. Amazingly enough she was still standing when we arrrived. Obviously surgery was indicated so we gave them a big check and they took her in. I was well aware of the poor percentage chances in colic surgery, but I was also aware of the horses that had survived to live a long and productive life. She lost 18 feet of intestine, which isn't really that bad as some horses lose 40 or more feet and survive. After surgery she recovered nicely, but then 10 hours later she simply lay down and died. It happened so quickly there was no time for intervention which in hindsight was a good thing as the costs were mounting and she couldn't have been saved anyway. So at least she died quickly. For several days I was completely devasted and couldn't find anything positive to take away from this horror. I beat myself up endlessly. I yelled at my family and felt totally unworthy of owning horses, but it wasn't my fault or, my vet's fault or Tuft's fault. It was just life and very often life simply isn't fair. I miss her and am glad that I kept her beautiful filly UMA. I hope no one has to go through this, but the fact is that when we choose to own animals we have to endure the heartache of loss. Vivian Creigh
Re: My computers working again
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm sorry to anyone that has been trying to get in touch with me in the last week, but my computer broke and I just got it back. Vivian Creigh
No Subject
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I copied this off the CD-L List. Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:24:32 -0400 From: Cheri Moats [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: time for a reminder This was written by a Veterinarian and professor at one of our country's most prominent universities... Owners and trainers need to realize there's a definite, easy-to-remember schedule of fusion - and then make their decision as to when to ride the horse based on that rather than on the external appearance of the horse. For there are some breeds of horse - the Quarter Horse is the premier among these - which have been bred in such a manner as to LOOK mature long before they actually ARE mature. This puts these horses in jeopardy from people who are either ignorant of the closure schedule, or more interested in their own schedule (for futurities or other competitions) than they are in the welfare of the animal. The process of fusion goes from the bottom up. In other words, the lower down toward the hoofs you look, the earlier the growth plates will have fused; and the higher up toward the animal's back you look, the later. The growth plate at the top of the coffin bone (the most distal bone of the limb) is fused at birth. What this means is that the coffin bones get no TALLER after birth (they get much larger around, though, by another mechanism). That's the first one. In order after that: 2. Short pastern - top bottom between birth and 6 mos. 3. Long pastern - top bottom between 6 mos. And 1 yr. 4. Cannon bone - top bottom between 8 mos. And 1.5 yrs. 5. Small bones of knee - top bottom on each, between 1.5 and 2.5 yrs. 6. Bottom of radius-ulna - between 2 and 2.5 yrs. 7. Weight-bearing portion of glenoid notch at top of radius - between 2.5 and 3 yrs. 8. Humerus - top bottom, between 3 and 3.5 yrs. 9. Scapula - glenoid or bottom (weight-bearing) portion - between 3.5 and 4 yrs. 10. Hindlimb - lower portions same as forelimb 11. Hock - this joint is late for as low down as it is; growth plates on the tibial fibular tarsals don't fuse until the animal is four (so the hocks are a known weak point - even the 18th-century literature warns against driving young horses in plow or other deep or sticky footing, or jumping them up into a heavy load, for danger of spraining their hocks) 12. Tibia - top bottom, between 2.5 and 3 yrs. 13. Femur - bottom, between 3 and 3.5 yrs.; neck, between 3.5 and 4 yrs.; major and 3rd trochanters, between 3 and 3.5 yrs. 14. Pelvis - growth plates on the points of hip, peak of croup (tubera sacrale), and points of buttock (tuber ischii), between 3 and 4 yrs. ...and what do you think is last? The vertebral column, of course. A normal horse has 32 vertebrae between the back of the skull and the root of the dock, and there are several growth plates on each one, the most important of which is the one capping the centrum. These do not fuse until the horse is at least 5 1/2 years old (and this figure applies to a small-sized, scrubby, range-raised mare. The taller your horse and the longer its neck, the later full fusion will occur. And for a male - is this a surprise? -- You add six months. So, for example, a 17-hand TB or Saddlebred or WB gelding may not be fully mature until his 8th year - something that owners of such individuals have often told me that they suspected ). The lateness of vertebral closure is most significant for two reasons. One: in no limb are there 32 growth plates! Two: The growth plates in the limbs are (more or less) oriented perpendicular to the stress of the load passing through them, while those of the vertebral chain are oriented parallel to weight placed upon the horse's back. Bottom line: you can sprain a horse's back (i.e., displace the vertebral growth plates) a lot more easily than you can sprain those located in the limbs. And here's another little fact: within the chain of vertebrae, the last to fully close are those at the base of the animal's neck (that's why the long-necked individual may go past 6 yrs. to achieve full maturity). So you also have to be careful - very careful - not to yank the neck around on your young horse, or get him in any situation where he strains his neck Dom
Re: Chicken little
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is also a tremendous need to rescue equines of every shape and size. Most areas in this country have regional horse rescue shelters. I have never seen any reason to be ashamed of buying a purebred dog as I was a breeder of Siberian Huskies for 22 years and I also support my local humane society with gifts of money and food annually. It is the people who breed indiscriminately without knowledge or ethics who are directly responsible for the overpopulation of all pet animals in this country not the people who have an interest in pure breeds as pets for their families. Spaying and neutering felines and canines and resisting the urge to breed horses for a number of ill informed reasons and the inability or lack of ethics to be responsible for pet animals produced is what has led to the horrible numbers of animals destroyed in America annually. Those of us , and I believe that this means all of us on this list should not be censored for a desire to own an animal of purebred background. After all that is the one thing that we all share in common Vivian Creigh
Re: fjordhorse-digest V2000 #212
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Swedish Vallhunds are related to the Corgi from back in the Viking days. The story goes that the Vikings either brought the Vallhund to British Isles and created the Corgi or they took the Corgi to make the Vallhund..Both stories appease breeders and fanciers of both breeds. I have owned Vallhunds for over 17 years and I think the world of them. They have just been admitted into the AKC as I this spring recieved foundation stock papers for all my Vallhunds even those that had passed away! However this spring in a weak moment I purchased an adorable tri-colored Corgi bitch I named Maize. She is also a fantastic dog in fact we flew her to Minnesota in a carrier at my feet for family vacation. She has alot of Australian working dogs in her pedigree and is much more high energy than my Vallhands along the lines of a Border Collie, she needs a job. Last week she grabbed a one week old chick and I'm sure she would have killed it had I not intervened and picked her up and slammed her soundly into the side of the barn whilst telling her in no uncertain terms that was not allowed. Seems to have dampned her chicken lust for the moment. Both breeds are extremely loyal and affectionate. Yes, Vallhund's are quite pricey however I imported from England in the early days and even with air transport the price wasn't entirely out of sight. Last year I was surfing Vallhund sites on the web and found a nice group in Holland. Maizie will be my traveling companion while the Airedale and Vallhund hold down the fort at home. They all get along quite nicely eventhough the Vallhund bitch was pretty peeved that I'd brought this thing home where one on one affection is at such a premium due to the large numbers of creatures that share our home, and the Airedale was initially thrilled to have a high energy pal can now often be seen seeking refuge in his crate when exhaustion takes it's toll. Both breeds have alot to recommend themVivian Creigh
Re: 1st haircut
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you've let a mane go to pot it becomes a real chore to get it back without constant attention. However if you just roach the whole thing off you'll get to start with a clean slate so to speak. Although I hate roaching a Fjord's mane because they then look just dreadful it doesn't last long as it grows out pretty fast. late fall or winter is the best time for this . Vivian Creigh
Deb Stevens!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Deb, Could you please get in touch with me I have lost your e-mail address. Vivian Creigh
GMHA Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, Since none of the other Fjord people seem to want to brag I'll brag for them. This past weekend at GMHA Fjords prevailed. Jim Sweeney driving a pair in Open Prelim was first. Dave Schneider I believe won open prelim single pony, please correct me Lindsay if I am wrong. Willem a Fjord placed second in Training or maybe prelim single I'm sorry can't rememeber the driver's name. Marnix won Advanced single pony, by default as his only other competitor, a Haflinger driven by Dave Hirsch chose to withdraw in the water hazard because his pony ran out of steam. (As far as I'm concerned he was the real winner for opting to withdraw a tired pony)Hilmar would have won Training single pony if his whip hadn't driven backwards through a cone and been eliminated, I understand from Sue that he was awesome on the marathon. Believe me when I tell you that was a very good thing as the marathon started up hill for 3 kilometers and the hazards were crammed into 3 kilometers. Poor Marnix who had a 2 week vacation at the beginning of the month was very tired in the hazards, but continued to go forward whenever I asked for it. I am really running on past conditioning, literally last years fitness. Fortunately Advanced only did Sec E. My daughter and I both noticed that he was very well behaved the entire weekend so I think he is learning (at age 8) that he has to conserve his energy for what's to come. He scored 52 in dressage which was okay but not where I want to be in the future. He would have been 4th in the horse division according to scores and since we had so little competition that actually seemed more important. All said and done, I love him more and more each day which seeemed impossible because I love him so much. He is such a cutie pie and competing a single at this level is always a work in progress. Congrtaulations to all the fabulous Fjords. Vivian Creigh
Larry Poulin lessons
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For anyone in the New England area, Larry Poulin will be at my farm, in Springfield VT next Thirsday afternoon and would like to put together some lessons for Thursday afternoon, and Friday morning before he heads off to GMHA for the weekend CDE. The dates are July 27 28, cost $50 per lesson. For anyone interested please contact me at 802 885-5762 asap. Vivian Creigh
I'm Back
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, I have just returned from a vacatiion for two weeks w/family. I browsed through the mail last night and replied to some and this morning I deleted everything as I had over 600 saved and another 200+ to read so if anyone was trying to reach me please forgive me for not replying and try again now that I am home. All my horses looked great and all the mares bred AI to Marnix have settled except for good old Birte who has a uterine infection that didn't show up on spring culture so we will try again and do a post breeding infusion keeping our fingers crossed. AI has worked tremendously well for Marnix and I. Both of us are much happier with this arrangement than live cover. As Carol pointed out women and mares who live together often cycle together it is due to their pheramones (sp?) so being able to breed multiple mares on one collection was a bonus. I'm getting ready to go to the Advanced HT at GMHA weekend after next fortunately I only have to do sec. E as with two weeks off and heat and humidity Marnix will need more conditioning to do a three phase. Sounds like everyone on the list is having a good summer. Vivian
Orville Unrau at Festival of Chs. at Gladstone(long and off topic)
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi List My daughter and I just returned from Driving Championships at Festival of Champions in Gladstone NJ. We had a terrific weekend especially since, Nancy Johnson the woman my daughter rode with in dressage and cones was the highest placing American (Sue Mott of Canada won) placing second and winning the marathon out of 32 Single horses. This event was required for all American drivers hoping to fill one of the slots for the World Championships. The final selection event is this Sept. at The Laurels. We left during final vet check and before they announced the short list, but I'm sure we'll here tomorrow. Orville and Anita Unrau were there representing Canada and Orville made the most amazing climb from 21st after dressage, was fourth on the marathon and had one of only two double clear rounds in cones to move to fourth place. I saw them both as we were leaving and he was smiling. Placing in a huge and incredibly competitive class such as this makes for a much more enjoyable ride home. Wes and I had a really good time as I have not competed at all this year so had not seen some of our friends for quite some time. The Four In Hands were driving for slots at this year's world Championships and watching how amazing they are driving those huge teams of WB through the hazards was unbelievably exciting. We missed the Fours doing dressage on Thursday because we had to return to VT to inseminate a mare on Friday and both of us had horses to work. Friday afternoon we headed back down for the last two phases. I am getting very excited about Advanced HT at GMHA end of July which will be Marnix's first combined driving event this season. Hope we see some new Fjord faces competing there. Vivian Creigh
Re: Mites and Barn Swallows
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is an old New England wives tale that if swallows roost in your barn it will not be hit by lightning. Other than the anxiety I go through each year about the wee ones falling out of their nests and becoming cat chow I love watching them fly around in the evening eating all those bugs. I have free range chickens as well and my barn cats never bother the babies ( we call them walnuts on legs when they are newly hatched) but I can testify that chicken lice will bite humans but don't seem inclined to take up permanent residence on us. Never had a problem with them bothering the horses, but worming with Ivermectin generally takes care of the problem if one exists. I have a friend who gives her chickens shots of Ivermectin in the breast to control scaly leg mites. Since we eat our eggs this is not a therapy I care to pursue. We have a much bigger problem with coons and skunks eating eggs and cat food in the barn than with birds. Steve and Amy Robin Groves was raving about your boy today. I'm glad she enjoyed him as much as I did. I hope you get him to some CDE's this year I really enjoyed working with him last year. Vivian Creigh
Re: Cows and Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, I am making this inquiry for a friend. Does anyone on the list have knowledge of two Fjord fillies being sold to a family named Trudell? Probably in the New England area. If anyone knows the origin of these fillies could you please e-mail me privately. Thanks...Vivian
Marnix's first ridden dressage show in 2 years! BRAG ALERT
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just came home from my Mother's Day Dressage show. Marnix has not been to a ridden show in two years. He did First Level 1 2. Won First Level 1 w/ 64%+. Some 8s and 7s on a very credible serpentine and both lengthens. Was second in First Level 2 w/67%+ several 8s and a 9!!! on his 5 sec. halt at A. His canter departs were much improved from his younger days, but his leg yields were dismal. Showed a much higher degree of engagement and thank god none of that awful toe flipping which he exhibited last season because of his lack of engagement. Much more correct and under himself now that he has more strength. By the way he has moderate length of back and loads of suspension. Between my 16 week old Corgi puppy and Marnix I had the market cornered on the cuteness factor. So much interest in the boy from the the older DQ's (Dressage Queens) who are getting a bit nervous about riding those big, explosive WBs. He was very well behaved even though he preened endlessly in warm up, hopeing that one of those cute bay mares might be for him. Returned home to find a clean barn and moderately well cleaned house, and a container full of exotic herbs to plant in the garden. Whoopee Hope all the mothers on the list had as successful a day as I have had. Ruthie, I loved the ode to mother's post as it allowed for all the degrees and approaches. My 13 yr. old son and I got a chuckle over the bit about sending the child to school with a stomach-ache and assurances, only to be called by the school nurse. Been there done that. Vivian Creigh
BRAG ALERT
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, I couldn't help myself from posting this brag. I received the following post on Monday morning. It is about a seven year old Konggard Freya Brusvein daughter bred by Ceacy Henderson named Penfryyd's Nykka.I bought her as a weanling and sold her as a coming seven year old this past March to a lovely woman and her daughter from Massachusetts. I am so proud of Nykka and so happy that she ended up with these wonderful people. I am sure she will continue to be an ambassador for Fjords wherever she goes. In a message dated 5/7/00 11:38:50 PM, net writes: Yesterday, under an AHSA rated judge she won, placed second and third in a hotly contested hunter division (@ 2feet) and ended up reserve champ. I gather that the judge was even willing her on. She beat out a bunch of VERY FANCY thorobreds. HOT DAMN! Today she did a 2 phase (we don't usually go out this often, but it was all in our back yard. She was second after dressage and was clean cross country. I can only tell you that my kids had the greatest fan clubs. Her dressage score was -37 and she never looked back. She jumped around the cross country course like a tiger. She was so willing and happy. She never questioned anything and I think that she even decided to show Laura how well she could take care of her.
Re: Finish
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I was going to let this topic play itself out but I just couldn't when people began to infer that somehow running a show with rules that must be strictly adhered to made them somehow less fun and friendly. Wesley and I have been showing at Combined Driving and Combined Training and Ridden dressage and ADS Pleasure shows for 12 years. All these sports have strict rules and regulations. We don't go to all these shows to be miserable, we go because every weekend we get to spend time with friends, make new ones and share a sense of camraderie and good sportsmanship. Rules do not turn horse shows into evil pits of ill temper and bad will. If Libby is a wonderful, fun, warm and friendly affair running it by strict rules that everyone must follow will not alter the good feelings that exist there now. I am sorry for those of you who have ventured into the regulated realm of horse showing and found it an unfriendly and unpleasant place to be. Certainly when I show I try and stay very focused and sometimes before I drive a marathon I can become quite testy because there are so many things going through my pea brain and I can get pretty nervous before my daughter rides cross country, but if I found it cold and intimidating I wouldn't do it. It costs too much money not to enjoy oneself. The rules are secondary. You learn them and try and remember them and follow them. Then you go about your business. Rules create a level playing field for all the competitors. You know going in exactly what is required of you. In driving, especially pleasure showing, I have often been beaten in turn-out by more expensive turn-outs driven by people with more man power back at the barn to help them get ready and stay clean and be polished to the nth. Hey, it's a turn-out class, if I place in good company it makes my day. In Combined Training you can be eliminated for jumping a schooling fence in the wrong direction. You aren't even in competition yet. Sounds pretty harsh doesn't it? However the rule was created for safety in the warm-up area and as the mother of an eventer I fully appreciate it. I don't get up at 3 in the morning to do chores so I can drive a trailer a million miles to be surrounded by unfriendly people. Running a horse show with rules will not make it less friendly just easier to manage and easier to judge. I hope one of these days I can get to Libby to meet some of the people I have become friendly with on this list, but I can assure you your friendly show atmosphere will not be altered by instituting rules and regulations and will also provide a more polished, realistic intro for all competitors into the horse show world where we are required to play by the rules.. If you've gotten this far, thanks for your time and have a nice night, Vivian Creigh
Re: Rule Book, response to Steve as well asLONG soap box discourse.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve, The ASHA Rules do cover Dressage and Driving as well as Independent breed criteria for Paso Finos, Shetland Ponies, Hackney Pony, Morgan, Connemara to name just a few. There are also rules for Reining and Western. If we really wanted NOT to reinvent the wheel we would become recognized within the ASHA and run all our shows under those rules. The Criteria for Breed/Discipline Recognition is as follows: A. to be considered for recognition as a division in the American Horse Shows Assocoation, a breed or discipline must meet the following criteria. 1. A breed registry or discipline must have been incorporated in the US for a minimum of five years. 2. At least 500 animals must have been registered with the breed registry during the two years immediately preceeding an application for recognition. 3. Competitions restricted to a breed or discipline must have been held in at least 20 events during the year immediately preceeding application for recognition either at ASHA approved events or at events approved by the breed or discipline. 4.A complete outline of conformation standards for a breed and rules for competitions for breeds or disciplines must be submitted with an application. B. If a breed division or discipline is approved for recognition the following criteria must be met to remian a recognized division. 1. A minimum of 25% of the competitions restricted to a breed or discipline must be held at ASHA approved events annually. 2. Competitions held to determine a national or regional champion for a breed or discipline must be ASHA approved. 3. Any division recognized after December 1,1984 that does not meet the aforementioned criteria in any given year will be warned, and if it fails to comply, the following year it will be dropped from the Rule Book. I have long felt that the NFHR should put there efforts into seeing the Norwegian Fjord Horse recognized by the ASHA where we would get national exposure and exceptance. I believe we have the numbers and are incorporated? Mike? We have a standard and rules, not that we can agree on them, but such is life. So much of what has been talked about and addressed by the NFHR BOD has already been dealt with by the ASHA. Once we were excepted we wouldn't have to spend so much time reinventing the wheel, just refer to the ASHA Rule Book, they have already done the work for us. I expect this will stir up some heated discussion on rules and why we need them at all when we are all so gosh darn friendly and can simply work out our problems without anyone's help, thank you. Or my personal favorite If we have real rules, that we all have to follow, it will take all the fun out of our low key family style shows and cause hard feelings amongst the competitors. Since many of us with Fjords already play in the real/ruled world of horse showing ASHA, ADS, USDF, USCTA as well as Pony Club and 4H and most of us seem to be enjoying ourselves immensely I really don't think this will be the case. Well I have posted too much lately so I will retire quietly to the lurkers cor ner and get back to the barn. For Lori: The baby is a real cutie as well as your lovely mare. Had to peek and get my foal fix for the day. Have fun. Hope you'll bring them both to the keuring Vivian Creigh
Re: To Hair or not?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lisa, I'll clarify, I completely clean off the face hairs, goat hairs, and any long hairs on chest, but I do not cut off the whiskers around eyes and on the muzzle. I also do not trim the leg hairs or feathers. Obviously I have given the horse a good scrubbing and shampooed and conditioned the tail. If you came to me in presentation with a horse whose jowls were dripping in goat hairs and whose ears hadn't been trimmed neatly around the outside I would definitely mark you down, but the whiskers around the muzzle and eyes can be left au naturel and it would not be penalized. Perhaps judges from another breed backround aren't used to seeing those whiskers left on and it would offend them, but not me nor apparently any of the judges I have come across to date, or if it did they didn't tell me about it and managed to pin me anyway. Twenty five years ago dog show dogs had their whiskers trimmed. I had some that fought like hell on having their's trimmed, also some that didn't mind at all. Anyway field trial people who also showed in breed found that their dogs were sustaining an inordinate number of face and eye injuries in the field, as a result trimming these whiskers soon fell out of fashion. I used to use Professional choice boots on my pair in marathon, but I no longer use boots except bell boots. I feel that the heat builds up underneath all that neoprene. However if I had a horse that interfered (I don't)I would not hesitate to use brush boots on marathon and my daughter, as well as most event riders, uses splint and bell boots on cross country and in jumping to protect her horses legs over fences. There might be a semblance of truth to Mr Parelli's feeling that support boots become a crutch, but he'd be in direct conflict with John Lyons as he is a spokesperson for Pro Choice boots. I wish I could get back all the money I have spent on new fangled Stuff that I couldn't live without, but hadn't needed until it became the current rage. As horses and showing is expensive enough without having to acquire more stuff and generally I find that the new stuff is stuff I can live without. I am currently involved with tweaking their diets in an attempt to find the magic bullet when in my heart I know that it is my ability or lack of that is at issue. Maybe when I'm really old and wise I will have managed to learn what I need to know and will not have to invest more money in finding the cure for my inabilities. By then I'll be TOO old and TOO poor for it to make much difference. In the meantime I will enjoy the road travelled just as much as the success I am traveling towards so as not to be disappointed when I finally get there. Vivian Creigh
Re: Cant clip , judges rule ! ; (
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been showing Fjords for thirteen years in Open competition from Gladstone to Walnut Hill as well as being a Combined Driving judge and Driven Dressage judge myself and I have never clipped the whisker hairs on my ponies faces. Pony Club also frowns on clipping whisker hair, I believe the correct term for these whiskers is vibrisae , Steve W can you clarify. I do clean up goat hairs and neatly trim the outline of their ears. I don't think a knowledgeable judge would even notice let alone mark you down for leaving them alone. Vivian Creigh
Dutch keuring feedback wanted
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear List members: Could those of you who have received mailings from me on the keurings to be held in the fall please contact me with any questions or comments and anyone who requested info that did not receive it please let me know as I am preparing to send out a general membership mailing and would like your comments before I start printing material. Also anyone interested in attending the first ABOP test preparation clinic here at Rainbow's End Farm in Springfield, VT please let me know. The first proposed date is June 17, however, my rings are both looking good and will be ready by May 1st, so if there is interest enough to fill 8 slots for a May date please let me know. Thanks for your input..Vivian Creigh
Re: Just to say Hi and introduce myself.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List, I know this is really last minute, but most things in my life are. I am leaving at 2AM Sunday morning, less than 12 hours away. I am taking my daughter to Southern Pines, NC for her spring break. Horse is already there so I find myself in a small maneuverable vehicle and can possibly take some time in the next week to visit with list friends on my way home. If anyone is interested in meeting me, in the flesh, so to speak please let me know. I would love to visit with you and your horses for a couple of hours and meet more Fjord owners. If my husband and son can spare me I will take a leisurely trip home as it's been along winter and I need some time off the farm before mud season. I can't think of a better way to spend my time off than meeting like minded Fjord friends. I will check my mail tomorrow morning at 2AM whilst drinking my first, of many, cups of coffee. I come bearing gifts of carrots and enthusiasm. All the best, Vivian Creigh
Re:Dutch Keuring
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To all those who received paper work on the fall Dutch keurings. Next week I will send a letter to all current NFHR members as the list only represents a small portion of members. However, I have had many requests for info and from the responses I can safely say there will be a large number of Fjords of all ages attending these keurings across the country. If you are interested, please contact me and I will send you an info packet. Unfortunately the IBOP tests, now renamed ABOP tests to add to any confusion, have been slightly altered but remain basically the same. I am awaiting the new tests, translated to English, and as soon as I receive them I will get them out to those of you who already received the first mailing. I will make an announcement on the list when I receive the tests. In the meantime the tests you received are close enough in intent that you will be able to get a good idea of what is being asked. I have secured D barn at GMHA in S. Woodstock for horses coming a long distance. Stabling will be at a reduced rate and I will arrange a watch person to be at the barn for those of you traveling back and forth. All attempts are being made to facilitate travel arrangements for all those who wish to bring horses. I am scheduling the stallions to be done all done on a single day for those of you who would rather not truck your stallion with his mares and offspring. It should make for a more stress free environment as the stallions won't be so worried about their herd on the trailer. I have spoken to local TV stations about coverage and will also try to arrange a professional horse photographer (Palmer Videos) to video the entire Keuring, making individual tapes available to those interested. My daughter's high school has an Environmental Science class that deals with breeding and marketing of domestic farm animals and am relatively sure that they will be attending at least one day as well as my son's Eighth grade class, as the class room teacher just happens to have been short listed for the Olympics in Eventing and is very interested in seeing a European keuring. I am leaving town for several days on Sunday. Please do not hesitate to contact me via e-mail or phone 802 885 5762 with any questions. Best to all. Vivian Creigh
Re: best offspring
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Look at Secretariat. How many winners, REAL winners came from him. Only kids of his I ever saw were riding horses, and not very good ones at that. Merek /XMP Check out a horse named Risen Star. Through bad racing luck came in third in the Kentucky Derby a race he could possibly have won with a better trip. Went on to win Preakness and Belmont handily. There have been numerous Secretariat off spring who made a name for themselves in big Stakes races, however this horse remains the most notable for coming so close to winning the Triple Crown, just like his sire.
Re: Stallion control?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know I've posted this before, but here goes again The government in The Netherlands does not control the breeding of stallions in any breed. Not Fjords, Not Friesians, Not Warmbloods, Not even Shetland Ponies the most popular breed of Pony in The Netherlands according to registry numbers, at least this was true several years ago. Each breed has a Studbook whose BOD is composed of regular people, no stallion owners however, just breed fanciers. It's possible, and I'm not even sure this is true, that the government subsidizes the studbooks, just like our government subsidizes farmers here in America. Horse breeding in Holland is considered an agricultural business and most of the horses are bred by dairy farmers as an addition to their dairy or farm income, so government subsidy doesn't seem unlikely. The individual Studbooks conduct all the business relating to their breed. If a stallion or mare is not awarded a breeding premium the owner is not prohibited from breeding that animal, however the registration papers issued for the offspring will be a different color alerting a potential buyer to the fact that this particular horse's parent or parents had not been awarded a breeding premium. Naturally most farmers in Holland, just like their American counterparts, can readily see the advantages of breeding only quality animals, and a great number of them continue through the keuring process adding premiums in performance and showing their animals at Fjord shows and keurings for many years, well after the original breeding premium was awarded. Much like a dairyman would take his prized bull or milk cow to a County Fair each year for the breed judging. Anyone who can point out the flaws in this incredibly fair handed system, be my guest.
Dutch Keuring at Rainbow's End Farm
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Although I realize not everyone in the New England area is on this Fjord List and I am preparing to send out a NFHR/NFHA membership mailing sometime in the next 10 days, I thought I would ask any interested parties residing in the New England area to contact me by e-mail, telephone or good old US Postal service. Anyone who thinks that they might be bringing horses or just coming to watch and possibly help out please contact me. There are a number of people who started the process in 1991, 1992 and/or 1993 who might be interested in an upgrade or tackling the IBOP again for a better score. I am planning a series of riding, jumping and driving clinics during the summer to help prepare you and your horses for the IBOP tests. Although we are using the Dutch system for this keuring we will also have a Norwegian judge inspecting with Bob van Bon. I am currently printing out information which explains the entire process in depth and if you contact me I would be glad to send along a packet of information outlining the format for judging and copies of the tests. You can contact me at e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], telephone: # 802 885-5762, address: Rainbow's End Farm, 740 Dutton Dist., Springfield, VT 05156
Re: Sleigh Rally in VT
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yesterday was a beautiful day for a sleigh rally. There were only about ten people, but two Fjords. Marnix and Andvik or Andy a horse sized gelding owned by Martha Quinlan and bred by Becky Mayer who's on the list. Andy was Reserve Horse Champion and Marnix was Single Pony Champion. The snow mobiles were also out in full force, they use the trails on GMHA property. During my work-off in a sizable Ladies to Drive Class about 20 snow mobiles came flying down the hill and stopped whereby one or two loudly revved their engines. I had been working all day to keep Marnix from reacting, not out of fear, but exuberance, as when he sees them in our fields he usually runs and bucks as if he's playing with them. He'd been really good and was paying attention to me until the work off when the sheer numbers and volume of engine noise became too much. However it was only a momentary lapse and he came back to me quickly and finished the figure eight with a nice square halt and obedient stand. We still managed to get a second place ribbon with no apparent grumbling from anyone as everyone agreed I'd been sabotaged. I had a wonderful day off the farm and enjoyed visiting with so many friends. Enjoyed the good food afterwards and I think Marnix was happy to be out as well. The weather here has been very good for sleighing, soft snow, no crust and bright sunshine. My husband and daughter left early this morning for a brief trip to Arizona to visit family so Connor and I are in charge. I have two new ducks both of whom were rescued and I am enjoying the interaction between the old and new ducks as they sort out their pecking order. HaHa! Vivian
Re: Validity of the Old Ways
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian and Ruthie, People after my own heart. Sam and I will not use chemicals on the farm for weed or pest control on the pastures or on the garden. Several years ago my neighbor mentioned that salt and very hot water would eradicate weeds on the driveway. I know that people use rock salt on asparagus patches to control weeds, but I have never tried it on my bed. I will ask my neighbor again for a more detailed explanation, but I bet that an organic gardening web site might be able to elaborate on this. If you find out something please post it as I would be very interested. Tomorrow, Marnix and I are going to our first Sleigh Rally of the season. It is supposed to be 30 which will seem very comfortable. Trimmed his mane and combed out his tail or plumage as we call it, although I'm sure tomorrow morning his tail will be full of fresh shavings. Those of you familiar with his tail will appreciate what a job it is to keep it looking good. Loaded the sleigh and cleaned the harness. I'll post as to what happens. Hope there's a good turn out. We're ready. Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend.Vivian
Re: Cross Breeding
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On cross breeding; Finn Casperson who sponsored Bill Long in the early days crossed Fjords with an Arab stallion I believe. Finn loves Fjords and has always been most positive when awarding them ribbons at Gladstone. He believed that the Arab would fancy them up a bit, possibly give them a little more suspension and improve their endurance. I have only seen two of the resulting offspring and they looked like very plain Fjords, their manes were trimmed upright, they were brown duns very able ponies, but extremely heavy in the front end. I am not familiar with his foundation stock nor the Arab that was used and this was done a long time ago before there was any ban or for that matter any truly well organized American registry. He and Bill eventually went on to Warmbloods and subsequently won the Four-In-Hands at Royal Windsor. In Vermont about 10 years ago there was a Fjord/Connemara cross who did all right in some competitive drives and then disappeared to where or whom I don't know. Several years ago in Southern Pines a friend pointed out two Fjord/Quarter Horse crosses. Not quite as Fjordy as Finn's crosses, but I was told that both were very good low level event ponies. Neither was very pretty, looked like Appy crosses and their manes were long. This post in no way reflects how I feel about crossing Fjords thought I'd just mention them as interesting sidenotes to discussion. None of them was a total disaster, all of them were being used which is more than I can say about a lot of full Fjords and the sky did not come crashing down on those responsible for their existence. I don't care to cross breed Fjords because one of the reasons I got involved with the breed was their long heritage and purity which from a breeding standpoint makes for a more interesting project. Vivian Creigh
Re: Blonken
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I wonder if anyone else is concerned about the implications of the Blonken posts and the 51/2 Fjords for Sale posts? Over the years I see more and more of these so called dispersal/distress sale ads. Have seen firsthand the condition of some the horses coming from theses sales. I am not suggesting that this is the case here, but whenever large numbers of Fjords flood the market at reduced prices it effects the value of all our FJords. Obviously divorce is an unforeseen complication in life, compounded by high emotional stress, financial and personal but sending these ponies to auction seems as though it is a very last resort action. Public horse auctions are not a very savory environment for any horse. Horses sold at auction come with no loving insight as to the nature of the particular animal being sold and the cheap prices make the animal an almost throw away investment if they do not work out. If these Fjords are sold without bloodtyping and registration papers they become part of the netherworld of unscrupulous horse breeder/dealers. As for the Blonken posts. This outfit seems to me to be the puppy mill broker for equines. To sell horses at such low prices and still manage to pay the bills and make a profit means that one has to cut corners that will impact the bottom line. This usually means no worming, low quality food and a minimum of quality handling. Just one small step above the auction. The Fjords that make it into the general horse owning public through these channels will most likely not have a positive impact on our breed as a whole. There will be exceptions to this, but most will live a mediocre existence before their new owners grow tired of them and send them to auction again or sell them for meat. For some death will be a welcome end to a life of continual suffering. I'm sorry, but I could not let these threads continue without adding my personal observations. Vivian Creigh
Re: Re:winter weather
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean, I too am envious of all the wonderful barns I've heard about on the list. My barn is a large metal sided cattle barn that has evolved over the years from three stalls to nine. Limited hay storage, but a wonderful hay man who stores and delivers hay when I need it, and takes back any bales that I don't like the looks of. It is open at the end where there is a run in area as the young horses and the occasional older horse that doesn't like to be stalled live out all year. Dutch doors on three stall tops remain open even in the bitter cold, and heated buckets in all the stalls. These are not automatic waterers, but individual buckets, and I do not know how I ever survived without them. Almost all our paddocks and pastures are easily accessible from the barn. Some across the street are only used in the summer. I do have a wonderful fenced training ring with sand/clay footing and my pride and joy a, 100m x 40m driving dressage arena with pond silt footing. That's where all my money went. This spring two or three hazards will be designed and built as I am hoping to host a number of developing pony driver clinics gearing up for the International Pony CH. in Samrun France, hopefully in 2003. If I really had a lot of money I'd build a proper water hazard with ramps and good footing. Ofcourse an indoor would be very nice, but I'd rather go south in the winter to train so it becomes a financial trade off as by the time I pay off the indoor I'll probably be to old to enjoy it. None of the mares or babies is blanketed, but I have to keep Marnix blanketed as he was body clipped in October for Fair Hill and it's was already too cold here to let him develop a good coat and I want him to shed out early and keep a minimal coat so I can work him all winter. He's a bit spoiled in that regard. If the weather is icky he'll start calling whenever he hears my voice so that I can come and rescue him from his hillside pasture where the wind really blows and there is no shelter. Also have blanketed Fjords that were too thin and needed their calories for weight gain rather than warmth as I'd rather not give them too much grain, but have had no problems with free choice hay for the thin ones and the growing ones. As for shoeing, I've never had problems with feet cracking in extreme cold (below +10F). The horses do not grow a lot of foot in the winter so sometimes can skip a trim. I leave that to the discretion of my farrier, who is a saint. But the shod horses need reshoeing every six weeks as road work wears the shoes thin and I don't want them losing a shoe and tearing up their feet. If the babies don't need a trim they still get their feet picked up by the farrier and tapped on and scraped with the rasp because when they're old enough to work, thus shoe. It's helpful if they're familiar with the farrier. It's very interesting for me to read all the different ways we manage our horses in the variety of climates we all live in. Just because they are very different doesn't mean that someone else's approach is wrong, just that it is different. I prefer my Fjords round, not angular, with nice round butts and broad flat backs, and I see a good number of Fjords that I think are too thin. A good worming program is really essential, and feeding them at the same time every day maximizes their use of food because they don't fret away calories wondering when they'll be fed. I've never had trouble fitting them for saddles dressage and all purpose. Obviously some saddles are not workable, but I have had great success with Ainsley and the van Bon's in Holland use Stubbens. Well, I've gone on long enough, it's still cold, and still not snowy enough for me, and my son has to use the computer for a Global Warming paper! Some irony there. Have a nice evening everyone. Vivian Creigh
Re:winter weather
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/18/0 12:04:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, where we're having a major snow event, at least 8 inches have fallen and still snowing, anoher 6 expected. +15F degrees. (sure better than -40!) Jean, I think often of what horsekeeping must be like for you when it gets -40. It's been -15 several mornings in a row and with no snow cover to speak of it seems much colder. By the time I've cleaned stalls and turned horses out with twice the normal amount of hay, schlepped buckets and changed Marnix's blanket configuration I am usually pretty sweaty underneath all the layers. However, once the temps dip below-20 and everything in my nose freezes solid it's pretty hard to keep fingers and toes warm, and I really dread it when the farrier's due to come on days like these. Makes me wish I didn't keep so many in shoes. We are, maybe, expecting a real snow fall at the end of the week, but the forecasters aren't sure about the track just yet. Last Sundays nominal storm blew off the same night, so still no good sleighing. Glad things are warming up for you. This cold sure puts a dent in the hay supply. Vivian
Re: the best?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fantastic Brian That was the most eloquent post of the new millennium and it just might take another 1000 years before anyone can say it better. Thank you. Vivian Creigh
Re: Type, Dressage and life in general long and probably boring
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/8/0 12:45:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi List.it's good to read a bit of 'meat' back on the listAnne's story of Type and the trip to Norway is a very important discussion. The preservation of Type is vital for us to understand. I believe what Anne was trying to relay was the fact that the judges chose Type over movement. Hooray!! I checked my mail tonight and it was over flowing with tremendous stuff including several very nice private replies to my sheep questions. Thanks for that to those of you who responded. Yes, it is of course TYPE that is most important in our breed. Within that frame their will be superlative movers and those not so blessed, but they will all be Fjords. Years ago, in another era, when I was involved in breeding Siberian Huskies, the very famous Eva B Short Seeley was judging a specialty show. Short and her husband Milton raised and trained sled dogs for most of the early Arctic exploration teams as well as for use in Armed Service work. Obviously this woman was well aware of athletic demands placed on her dogs for this kind of grueling work. She had completed her part of a judging assignment at a Regional Specialty Show and was seated outside the ring watching the rest of the judging, during which she provided anyone within hearing range a running commentary on the dogs being presented. At some point someone challenged her choice of a one dog over another based on breed type over movement. Short's reply has guided me in all my endeavors to breed animals to standard. She fixed her steely little eye on the upstart and proclaimed, Even mutts can move well! Perhaps this is an over simplification, but it seems to sum up the recent discussion. Thanks Short. Thank you Anne for explaining dressage so well. I think you would agree that you have seen some pretty dismal upper level ride on Warmbloods as well as other breeds. The horse being only as good as the person riding him. In my long career as a ridden dressage scribe for FEI tests I have seen far more poor tests than really good ones. Usually it's a question of the rider overfacing himself as well as his horse, and simply not being ready for a move up to the level he's competing at. The same thing holds true in driven dressage as well, bye the way. Just because someone is riding at Third Level doesn't mean they belong there. I have first hand knowledge of an Arab gelding whose owner rode and drove him with no knowledge of frame or rhythm or stride, head up, above the bit. Basically not a dressage prospect. A talented young rider started riding this Arab and within a year they were winning everything in dressage. At a show I was scribing at this pair came down the center line and I had to check my program twice to see that it was the same horse I was familiar with. The change was amazing. The horse was round, on the bit and relaxed and moving forward. Really nice to watch. Nothing in this horse's life had changed except his RIDER. My next observation will probably get me slammed, but I suspect the cantering problems that some people have described have more to do with the rider's ability than the conformation of the animal. Thoroughbreds are a cantering breed, if you will, and my daughter has had her share of problems developing her TB canter for the dressage ring. Mostly due to her lack of experience. Transitions have been a real issue for the pair. Keeping the horse round in the up and down transition from trot/canter/trot is still an issue but together they have worked hard to sort it out. There is a huge difference in the dressage ring canter and the cross country run she can get away with at the lower levels. However it is in the ability to lengthen and shorten the stride approaching a fence that has made my 14 year old child aware of the advantages of being able to do so, and made her aware of dressage as the foundation for all the phases in Eventing. Cynthia!!! This is as you pointed out. To sum up my long and ponderous post I would like to say that I have had many opportunities to get another breed of horse more suited to Combined Driving. Although momentarily tempted I have yet to succumb to temptation. Firstly because I became involved with Fjords because I wished to breed animals to standard, a standard that has been in place for a very long time, and secondly because I know that I can be successful with Fjords at the Advanced level of Combined Driving as long as I continue my education and learn how to drive them better. I see people with very talented ponies who will never get the performance that their pony is capable of and I see people driving totally unsuitable ponies who do quite well at the lower levels. Such is life. I could go on and on. My advice to all is get out and go watch and appreciate all the breeds and riders competing at all the levels. Scribe at your local
Thanks for sheep info and dressage comments
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks so much Jane for all the info on sheep. I am very interested in more info such as what breeds are best for fleece and hardy in a VT climate. Anything that you think is important to know would be most appreciated. To everyone else on the list who posted, thank you. I found it very interesting that there was such a wide variety of opinions on both the positive and negative side. Also really enchanted by the spinning as therapy thread. Eventhough I ride and drive straight through the winter sometimes it's just too cold to work the horses. My husband is a musician and I thought I could set up in his studio and work while he practices. I too found Anne's article on Wez great. I have an old USDF newsletter with theirpicture on the cover and I often bring it out to show people just how far a Fjord can go in ridden dressage. I showed the recent article to my son's teacher, a past Olympic eventer. She and I both agreed that Fjords aren't the only breed doing ridden dressage that lack natural ability. Many wa rmbloods simply lack the temperament to hold it together thruout an FEI test and many develop hock and back problems and not all warmbloods are fantastic movers either. For all those that do prevail rest assured it was a long arduous road to get to the upper levels. Fjords can easily excel at the lower levels of dressage because they are steady and workmanlike it takes a powerfully motivated person to get to FEI. Anne has certainly shown that, and we should all be very thankful to her for her dedication. Everytime a Fjord makes it at the upper levels of any equestrian sport it benefits all Fjord breeders and enthusiasts. Thanks again to everyone who answered my sheep questions. As an interesting note on the dressage thread, I asked Mike Poulin, bronze medalist at the Olympics, what breed he considered the best dressage prospect and he told me he thought the Thoroughbred was the best, because they gave 110% all the time. This certainly surprised me. I've definitely written too much for one post. Have a nice weekend everyone. I'm hoping for snow soon so I can take Marnix to some sleigh rallies. Vivian Creigh
Re: Out West vacation plans
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meredith, The American Driving Society publishes a booklet of horse farms in the US that welcome travelers. Most are obviously driving enthusiasts maybe some with Fjords. You can contact the ADS at their website http://www.AmericanDrivingSociety.org Good Luck sounds like a wonderful trip. If you ever head northeast please feel free to stop by for a visit. We have plenty of room.Vivian Creigh
Re: goats and sheep
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I lived in CT before Fjords I had two Nubian wethers. I used them to clear an acre that was totally overgrown with poison ivy and they did an excellent job! They'd climb right up a tree to eat it off the trunk. After a season on that acre the PI never reappeared and it's the kudzu of the Northeast and they had pretty well eaten everything else in that area as well which was exactly what we had planned. We did not have any serious problems with them and have often thought of getting some dairy goats, but I am interested in any info on sheep especially from people in the NE. I have some pastures that were allowed to return to scrub in some areas. Typical stuff like burdock and thistle probably some nettles. Would sheep be inclined to eat this sort of stuff? What about buttercup? I am learning how to spin this winter and have always wanted some sheep for wool as well as an occasional freezer lamb. I have always thought that they would be excellent as a pasture rotation animal as I understand their intestinal parasites will not affect horses. So all of you sheep people give me some input. Vivian Creigh
Re: Re[2]: List must move (READ and RESPOND!)
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve AKA. Fearless List Leader, Where you go I will follow. The ads don't bother me, and having an archive would be nice. Vivian C.
Re: Swedish Vallhunds
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello to those of you who wished more information on Swedish Vallhunds (Little Viking Dog) The rescue site is part of the Swedish Vallhund Club of America Club web site go down the home page index on the left. They get along well with chickens and ducks and cats although we did have a male Pekin duck who sexually imprinted on the Valls and chased them, grabbed them by the scruff of the neck and sorry, but I don't know how else to say it, humped them ducky style. The Vall didn't like it at all but I have an Airedale that rolls over on his back and lets the ducks crawl all over him. Anyway Vall's are clean and outgoing and are extremely loyal to their owner. I see more and more of them at FairHill International in the dog agility trials. They get along with the cats, but aren't beyond a little game of stalk and run if things get boring. The popular story of their origin is that the Vikings brought them to England to make the Corgi or they ripped off the Corgi to make the Vallhund. Bought my second dog in England, but those were in the days when there were only 90 Valls in the US. I like to think of them as BIG dogs in little dog suits. They live a long time and aren't particularly prone to any specific diseases. Friends in NY found a Vallhund roaming the streets of Brooklyn many years ago. Much speculation on where she came from, but she was most definitely a Vallhund. They estimated her age at around four she lived with them for over 20 years before she finally died of old age. Anyone interested in Corgis would not be disappointed with a Vallhund and they are really perfect farm and family dogs. Love the car and make good company on the show circuit.
Swedish Vallhund Little Viking Dog
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some of you may not be familiar with this breed, it is related to the Corgi. They are wonderful dogs, incredibly loyal and smart. I have owned them for 13 years and can't say enough about them. This morning I found this American site which also links to European sites.. Vallhunds have a bit more leg than the modern Corgi and aren't quite as broad in the beam. They love agility and they re believed to have been on the Viking ships. The breed club site also has a rescue page. http://www.swedishvallhund.com
Re: Setting an example
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Years ago after competing Birte for several years she developed a water phobia, don't ask me why, I have no good reason for this sudden change. On several occasions when entering a water crossing she would jump hard right. At Walnut Hill she almost tipped a borrowed antique over and also took out the wooden flag and course marker. At Kent when she jumped right she caught a shaft around a good size sapling and pulled the whole tree over while my son yelled we're going over. Fortunately we stayed upright, but I knew we had to fix this problem before someone, namely me, got hurt. Several miles down the road from our farm my pediatrician had a small pond scooped out next to the road. After getting permission to use the pond for training my husband and I drove Birt down there to give it a try. I circled the pond once and then pointed her into the water at a strong trot. Naturally she stopped dead at the waters edge. I screamed and growled, threatened and smacked her soundly with the whip and re-presented her. No way she was going into that strange body of water. You could almost see her thinking to herself, Do these people really think I'm that crazy, don't they know we could all drown. Anyway, Sam got down and tried to pull her through, to no avail. Finally out of desperation Sam waded into the pond in front of her. That was all it took Birt calmly walked into the water following Sam. After that we drove her in and out of the pond at a trot with no problem. I would like to say that she never had any more opinions regarding water, but Birt always likes to have the last word on everything. She was never a problem in a water hazard, but often spooked to the right crossing streams on course. In those days you could put your groom navigator down on course without penalty, so I always had the option of sending my navigator through the water ahead, and she would always follow obediently. You can no longer put a groom down on course so it's probably a good thing she's retired. So I don't see any reason why teaching through example wouldn't work in the case of breaking ice on the waterer, but I'd probably use my boot rather than actually bending over and breaking it with my nose! It slushed last night so we have some cover on the ground, but probably not enough for sleighing. Guess I'm stuck inside, maybe I'll clean the kitchen!!! Vivian Creigh
Re:Marathon carriage for sale.
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good morning List, Thought someone might be interested in this carriage for sale. Great price would make a great Christmas present. Unrau Marathon Carriage, rear brakes, wedge seat, navy blue. Used only 4 months, fits advanced level specifications for weight and wheel track. $4500.00 You can e-mail Nancy Johnson privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or contact me. Have a good day. Vivian Creigh
Re: Horse kissing
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pamela: I have two Norwegian Forest cats. A mother and son. Lynn and Arthur Boroff who are also Fjord owners are breeders of Forest cats, Maine Coons and Scottish Folds. You can find their address in the Herald. We also have one of their Maine Coons and he is without a doubt the coolest cat I've ever owned. He's so cool Sam calls him Daddy-O. They are in Francestown, NH and ship cats worldwideGood Luck. Vivian
Re: fjord cuddeling...an art
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay, Okay... I'll fess up. I kiss them all. As well as letting the dogs cover my face with obsessive kisses, and I believe the dogs present a more potent danger as they are prone to ingesting all kinds of disgusting stuff. On a more serious note I just heard a piece on NPR several days ago about how the Japanese, who are very germ and bacteria phobic have a high incidence of skin and intestinal problems which some believe is due to their obsession with anti bacterial cleaning products. The feeling is that their bodies have not been able to build up any natural antibodies against certain prevalent bacteria found in abundance in normal living situations. The anti bacterial cleaning agents, so in vogue now, not only kill the really bad stuff like strep, staph and salmonella, but also effectively wipe out more benign flora and fauna, which when we ingest them in small quantities help to strengthen our immune systems. But you already knew that Bill. The news story simply vindicated my shoddy housekeeping practices, and allows me to kiss and be kissed by the numerous creatures I share my space with, with no fear of succumbing to a dread disease of unknown origins. This sort of segues into one of my favorite VT stories. Our local feed store owner is a wonderful man with a very dry sense of humor. His store is located on a major road leading to a popular ski resort so it is not unusual for flatlanders who have forgotten to pack Fido's food for the weekend to stop by on Friday evening on their way to the Mt. for a weekend of skiing. The owner of the store had a dog that came to the store with him everyday. An out of towner arrived to purchase some pet supplies for the weekend and as he was waiting in line to pay for his purchases he noticed the dog actively engaged in licking his privates. Feeling somewhat out of place in this bastion of local Vermonters he attempted to break the ice by pointing the dog's behavior out to the owner and adding Gee, I sure wish I could do that. To which the owner replied in absolute Vermont deadpan, Well, okay, but you might want to pet him first. Hope you all have a wonderful weekend, Vivian C.
Re: Fjord driving wrecks
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another solution to traces popping off. Take a bungee cord and lay it across the single tree and hook the ends into the trace slots on both sides so that it holds the traces on the single tree.It should be snug enough that there is some tension, enough to hold the traces on, but not so snug that it is an effort to attach. My daughter drove her 11H Welsh pony in a CDE when she was 11 years old. Maureen van Bon, Bob's daughter rode with her as groom. They were driving a tiny pipe cart that had been purchased for $50. It had leather pieces to hold the traces on. Wes and Maureen and myself put sufficient mileage on this demon cart conditioning the pony for the event and had never had a mishap, however in the second hazard Wes scraped a post and the traces popped off. Maureen thinking fast grabbed the traces and while leaning forward and pumping her arms back in forth in time to the pony's movement got her through the rest of the hazard. It took about two minutes for them to jerry rig the traces with Maureen's hair barrettes. Now however they were two minutes behind in time for the section. So in the woods Wes just let the pony trot as fast as he could go. They made their time with 2 secs. to spare and my daughter exclaimed that it was the most fun she'd ever had driving that fast. I have a picture of them going through the water with Maureen holding on to the traces and smiling. She told me later she was awfully glad that it was Mushroom and not one of the Fjords as she didn't think she could have held on to the traces if the pony had been too much bigger. Vivian Creigh
Re: Notes from FairHill CDE
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm back from Fair Hill and feeling pretty lousy as the wind and cold, coupled with the warm sun left me with a cold and general malaise that one often suffers from the physical demands of a cde (walking hazards and in the case of this years FH slogging through tremendous amounts of viscous mud to go anywhere in the barn area, my back is killing me from lugging full buckets of water from semi strategically positioned water tanks to Marnix's stall, and as he is a hay dunker his two buckets must be cleaned and filled 5 times a day)) Dressage was anywhere from brilliant to badly driven by whip, to no attention paid to self same whip by stallion who had another agenda. I was very pleased by my 44+ score. Marathon was taxing to say the least as after 2 1/2 days of rain Sec. A was very deep. Down hill on the A sec track traces were still taught so we were pulling down hill as well as up!!! However, at the end of the walk we had a 1K walk up hill to the vet check. I knew Marnix had to pee because I got out of the carriage to ground drive him to the vet and twice up the hill with no added weight he started to stretch out to urinate but then something caught his attention and he began walking up the hill again. I hoped he would relieve himself at vet check, but being a normal picky stallion he forgot about his bladder. He dropped 2degrees in temp and halved his pulse and respiration and as usual the vets were amazed at his recoveries so happily sent me out again on E. Once we were on track I forgot about the peeing thing and got into go mode. He was competitive up until the 5th hazard when the water got to him. He trotted through the water, but only after he had sized up his approach. In hazard 6 you had to exit up a very steep hill. I drove it very badly and after I asked him to git up the hill he paused then stopped dead and swung around to the right in a downright refusal. I turned him around and asked him again to gitup the hill and again he stopped and swung right. I presented him again and again he stopped and swung right. I looked at the hazard judge and politely said We wish to retire a which point my 14 yr. old daughter said, no he's just being stubborn, I'll get out and pull him up. Something about his refusal led me to believe there was more to it than that so I said again, more to her than the judge, We will retire. We left the hazard... We wandered up to the end of the marathon to tell the Head of the Ground Jury we were officially retired. He applauded my decision(which was very affirming) and told me that I would still have to go through the tunnel to the end of E. After the tunnel there is a substantial hill and again Marnix who had merrily walked and trotted to this point refused to go up the hill. I knew then that his resistance was based in pain and not pony attitude. My daughter got down and pulled him up the hill, but on our way through the stabling area, Sharon Chesson remarked that he really needed to pee. I asked if he had dropped down and she replied that he was starting to. This is unusual behavior for Marnix... He finally relieved himself when fully undressed and then again less than an hour later. Next day I withdrew from cones as I was really tired and cold and since I was no longer competitive much preferred shopping and watching and visiting with friends. Being that this is only his third Advanced event I was a lot less distressed about my retiring than some who were watching. I've been competing for 11 years and hopefully will continue for 11 more. My pony will always remain more important to me than the ribbon and trophy I may or may not win. I know that there is always another day and I was pleased to bring home a happy, healthy horse who will go again... and win. Winter looms ahead, and the sleigh season approaches and the season starts next March in Florida... It was good seeing Martie B and I had a good time despite any personal set backs as driving people are the best and it is always fun to spend time with them... Vivian Creigh
Re: Bill Long etc
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 10/15/99 6:29:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That stunt of crawling under the reins Long's son did must have been quite a show! Wow Milton Long, Bill's son has been out on the pole a few times in his father's career. Tells me that his Dad would be mighty upset if he got down on the ground incurring a big pt. penalty for groom down in the hazard rather than risk life and limb climbing out on the pole. Fortunately Milton is very athletic. Another interesting story from Gladstone Larry Poulin was navigating for Nancy Johnson. In the first hazard she hit a big root going round to B and Nancy was bounced right out of the carriage leaving Larry standing on the back while the horse took off running. Larry saw the reins lying on the floor of the boot and leaned forward and picked them up and stopped the horse. Think if it had been me I would have jumped off before I started looking around for the reins. Guess this kinda of thing is what separates the men from the boys, and makes the sport of combined driving so exciting Vivian C
Re: driving
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ursula, Thanks so much for including me in your list. I thought your post was very informative for those not yet caught up in driving fever. I would like to add some names of excellent driving trainers and teachers in the USA. Bill Lower in Virginia, Larry Poulin in Maine, Muffy Seaton in Virginia, Bill Long in North Carolina. All of these people will gladly train green horses and drivers and teach clinics all over the country as well as Canada. One of the nicest things about driving as opposed to some other disciplines is that the very best drivers will teach the very greenest newcomers. Also if you are not physically up to the demands of riding at Grand Prix Level driving is still well within your reach. Not to mention how much fun it is to take a non horsey friend out for a drive. As per Steve M.'s excellent post Yes the whip is an absolute necessity in driving. And the only way you will get proficient in it's use is to carry it all the time. Eventually your arm and hand will not get tired and you won't even think about holding it. It is a useless aid when it's sitting in the whip socket and in the event of an incident where it's use is necessary RIGHT NOW! you will not waste time fumbling for it. Well I've written quite enough for one day. Vivian Creigh
Re: Trace clipping
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Martie, I would clip him before the CDE, but maybe not until about 2 weeks prior. Marnix gets an entire body clip, again, I clipped him before Gladstone, but even with a blanket he's grown too much coat to do a marathon. He will remain blanketed thru-out the winter until I go south and then he'll get clipped again. Boots Wright used to wear a black velvet hard hat in cones and dressage phases. She added some black tulle to the hat and some red ribbon. It actualy looked quite attractive. Like somethinbg out of the hunt field from days gone bye. The tulle obscured the harsh lines of the hat and the red ribbon brought the color scheme of the turn-out together. Good Luck in your debut. I'll be looking for you at Fair Hill. How does the place look after Floyd went thru? Vivian C
Re: Help needed in Kansas City this weekend
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sorry about the shortened message it was inadvertently sent by a kitten tromping on thR key board I sent the rest of the message to Cynthia. Have a Nice Day, Vivian
Re: Help needed in Kansas City this weekend
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Cynthia, Good Luck this weekend! You'll have no trouble finding a warm body3
Back on line
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just got back on line after Gladstone... Congratulations to Brian for a job well done. Regarding your reference to Morris Kerr... Morris had a very good dresssage score and went on to do well in the marathon putting him in second place going in to cones. There were 34 Single Horses at Gladstone all vieing for a place on the World Champion 2000. There were very few clean cones rounds at Advanced and I believe Morris would have had to go clean to remain in second as Chandler Irwin who was in third had a beautiful clean go. Well he creamed an entire cone in #16 and I'm sure was so flustered that he drove through #6 in stead of #17 right next to it, and was Eliminated. We all felt his pain. To have prevailed through the first two phases in such good shape and then blowing it three cones from the finish. Made my poor showing seem not so bad... Marnix was very fit after the second walk on sec D. Temp 101 and respiration 16. Even the head vet was amazed that a Fjord stallion was so fit. Unfortunately after doing 4 sections and being cooled down twice Marnix felt he should be finished working. Never having done a 5 sec (Gladstone Fall is the only one on the east coast for ponies) it was easy to understand why he thought he was done. I knew going out on E that he wasn't there mentally. When he did give me speed in the hazards I wasn't there for him and eventually as my driving skills deteriorated he clearly couldn't figure out what it was I wanted. He was acting tired, but at the end of E his temp was only 103 and his PR's very low so it was clearly a mental thing. I spoke to Jack Weaver who was driving a pair of young Dutch WB in their first 5 sec marathon and he said the same thing happened to him. The horses were in good shape physically, but weren't there mentally for him Anyway I was so far behind for cones that I just drove them for fun and I must say it was quite liberating... Three cones smashed, but no time penalties and a good time had by all. Oh well, can't win them all. Looking forward to Fair Hill.. Bye for now Vivian C
Re: Onalee's trail ride
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cameron, There is a competitive trail ride org. called ECTRA (Eastern? Competitive Trail Riding Assoc.) Dave Mcwethy probably knows more about it than I and I'm not sure but that the E doesn't stand for Eastern, however if they have a web site they would offer links to National Competitive Org. Endurance Riding is different from competitive as they are judged differently, and Endurance rides are 50 or 100 mile races with mandatory vet checks, the mostfamous in America being the Tevis Cup The winner being the first over the finish line who is judged sound enough to continue after a 20 minute rest. Endurance is a USET recognized International sport. It is dominated by Arabs, but I understand there is the occassional Fjord that compete in Europe. Competitive Trail rides are an excellent way to enjoy competing Fjords as their heavier bone and tough disposition lend themselves quite well to the sport, and most rides offer a junior division. This summer there was an excellent article on HEAT and how to cool down horses fast but properly I believe it was in Equus magazine. I will go through my stacks of stuff and try to find it and post it to the list. Vivian C.
Brag Alert!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Several of us went to the Myopia Combined Driving Event this past weekend. I am very happy to report that Marnix is the New England Advanced Single Pony Champion. After a very up and down dressage test we were ahead by only 7.5 pts.. Marnix proved that he can really cook on marathon winning by 20 pts. My daughter was fantastic on the back and our new marathon vehicle was wonderful. It was very humid and hot on marathon day and we went out at high noon. Marnix didn't break a sweat until the 5th K on sec. A and made his walk with a minute to spare. I hit three balls in cones but fortunately had enough cushion to keep my lead. So I know I have to work on my dressage and cones before going to the ASHA Pony Championships at The Laurels where I'll be facing very stiff competition. All the mistakes made were driver error. My boy was fantastic throughout. The Wich's also had a successful show with Laura placing fourth in Open Prelim and Craig placing second in a very competitive Open Prelim Pair class Horses/Ponies together. My brag moment is over... Good Luck to all of you competing this season. Vivian Creigh, Rainbow's End Farm
Re: fjordhorse-digest V99 #162
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any pictorial compilation of Fjords in North America would be a wonderful thing for all of us. My only question is where do horses who have been evaluated in European kuerings end up? Is this book intended only for horses evaluated under the American Eval system? There are many serious breeders who have spent alot of time, money and effort importing previously evaluated horses and/or training for European evaluations that were held in the US. There seems to be some division in opinion on the compared quality of American bred horses versus European bred horses. Shouldn't they all be the same? This is a Norwegian breed of horse which has been bred to the standard of it's home country in several European countries. Isn't this what we are all striving for? To breed to the standard is the aim of any serious breeder, and trust me this isn't as easy as it seems which is why the European countries evaluate yearly. Yesterday I had a Freisian colt here for weaning, it didn't work out as this little guy had a real can do attitude and went through two- three board fences and three hot wire fence lines in 10 minutes, ending up in Marnix's pasture where he was greeted with alot of will you play with me attitude and thankfully we were able to catch him and return him to the trailer as it was apparent that my facility wasn't up to his antics. At any rate I asked his breeder if she had planned to cut him and she said she wanted to bring him to the keuring in Sept. intact, but knew that he would probably not make the grade because he had bench knees like his dam who is a ster mare, but she realized that in a potential stallion they were looking for perfection and she had intended to cut him shortly there after. She was not at all upset by this as she realized that breeding animals to standard was a hit or miss endeavor and she was just happy to have such a happy forward little guy. A little too forward for my taste and my fences. My question is, if confronted with an Evaluators opinion that your darling stud colt, with a fabulous temperament, was deemed unsuitable for breeding according to the standard how many of you would go away grumbling about the ineptitude of the evaluator and how many would go home and cut the adorable creature? Evaluations are a very important tool, but they only work if we have faith in the evaluators and listen to their wisdom. I have faith in the European evaluators who have always been available to us and have many decades of experience. If the BOD wishes to undertake the publication of such a book please don't ignore the horses imported and evaluated in Europe or by Europeans they more than deserve a place in such a book. Thanks for listening... Vivian Creigh
Re: evaluations/conformation
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On organizing evaluations. Ceacy Henderson and I ran a two day Dutch evaluation with performance and although I was tired at the end it was hardly the most stressful event of my life. I probably spent 20 hours on the phone lining up facility, insurance, porta potty etc. We used the Dutch system and their excellent IBOP tests. As I recall we had a moderately good turnout. Running the Dutch evaluation was far easier than running a CDE or any small horse show about 1/60 the number of people are required. I have no experience with American Evaluations so I couldn't tell you if there's something in the format that makes them so much more difficult to run. On performance testing. I think it's very important to have performance tests for two reasons. .1. It is another gauge with which to measure your Fjords breeding worth 2. For those people who are not interested in breeding or who's horses might not be the best conformational specimans ,performance is another important area in which to show off your skills as a horseman and the talents of your Fjord. I will point out that it takes at least several months of steady work to prepare an already broke horse for an IBOP test, but the gelding owners who participate are very proud of their horses and several went on to garner a prestatie rating. . A true testament to the breeds useability and versatility. Vivian Creigh
Re: Stallion Strength
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Breeding of Fjord Horses as well as other breeds in the Netherlands is controlled by independent stud books not the Dutch government. The Fjord stud book cannot make you geld your stallion however it will issue papers of resulting offspring in a color to indicate that the parents were either not evaluated or not evaluated favourably. The gestapo will not come to your farm and shoot your horses and haul you off to jail. People may privately own stallions and they can go through the evaluations and if said stallion is favourably evaluated he will be represented in the Stallion Roster. However most people choose to allow the studbooks to own the stallions and farmers lease them on a yearly basis. Just because a certain stallion is standing in your district that year there is nothing preventing an individual from taking their mare outside the district to breed to a particular stallion. Evaluations and record keeping are the studbook's job and the studbook is run by a BOD of interested individuals, none of whom are stallion owners by the way. The Dutch government is not involved in setting policy for individual breed organizations. Vivian Creigh
Re: Re: Weight Carrying Abilities of Fjords
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] After reading so many posts on the weight issue I just thought I'd share this with the list. Last week I judged the end of Pony Club Clinic dressage tests. Ages of riders range from 10 to 16. They come in all shapes and sizes with a wide range of abilities. In my Training Level 3 test I had a young lady who stood out way above the others. She rode an intelligent, thinking test. She was prepared for her transitions. She used her hands, seat and leg in a very mature and thoughtful way. Her whole test was a pleasure to watch, calm, cadenced and correct. Despite the fact that this girl weighed ALOT! and was a child. She had obviously worked very hard mentally as well as physically. Her pony was some sort of draft cross not very tall but chunky, perfectly suited to this girls build, but not a school master by any means. I remember this pair from last year. Their improvement was measureable. She went on to jump clean cross country and stadium to win their division. Every mark I gave her she earned and I was very pleased to see her finish so well as she displayed a good deal of maturity for one so young. Riding well isn't a matter of size. It is a matter of understanding the concept and working hard mentally and physically in harmony with your horse. This doesn't happen overnight just because you've been blessed with a fabulous physique, it takes years of practice, but all of us have to start somewhere. Be us skinny or fat! Vivian Creigh
Re: Holunder's Passing
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I spoke to Ann Stifel yesterday to offer my condolences on the death of Holunder. She was suprised to hear that I knew about it. I explained that it had been reported on the Fjord List on the internet and that many people responded to the news offerring sympathy and support,she was very touched. Since Ann is not on-line it would be lovely to give her a call or write a note. She is very sad about Holunder as is her husband as Holunder was his favorite. They were both very happy to have had him for the time they did and speak glowingly of his presence and character. I am sure that his final years were quality ones. Vivian Creigh
Re: Our first time in public as a team! (long)
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Martie, Congratulations on your parade outing. In my opinion Parades are the hardest things to do. Mass confusion, no time to settle in before you have to perform and all the other things you encountered. I gave up doing the Woodstock Wassail parade having cheated death, mine or someone else's in the crowd, for several years. If you can do a parade you are more than ready for the challenges of Combined Driving. Where you have ample time to settle in and there are so many things to do and memorize you're usually to busy to stress about the what ifs? I look forward to seeing you at some CDE's in the very near future... Vivian C.
Re: Re: Team of Fjords in Maine*
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good Morning List, First I'd like to mention for those of you in my neck of the woods. Larry Poulin will be here at Rainbow's End Farm , Springfield VT.on June 19 20 for 1 hour private driving or riding lessons. I have some openings available on both days. Particularly the 9AM slots. Lessons are $60 and horses must have a current coggins to unload. Larry is a five time National Pairs Driving Ch. and an international competitor. He is also a fabulous dressage rider having competed at the FEI level with his Dutch WB Highland. If you are interested please let me know. Call 802 885 5762 Next BRAG ALERT Marnix was Single Pony Ch. at the Saratoga Driving Classic. There was a very good pony division... Welsh, Haflingers, Morgans , and a nice pair of Hackneys. Dog Agility was right next to us and I understand there were a fair number of Fjords (who was there? anyone on the list) at the Breed Expo across the street as well as barrel racing and reining and Dressage. Beautiful weather, a great pony and nice people. As usual Marnix made me look good. Hope everyone has a wonderful Holiday.Vivian
Re: GMHA Two Phase
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi List, Well only two stallions showed in the 2-Phase. Kila Grani at Training Level and Marnix. I taped several others, but the tape turned out badly and I don't know if anyone wants one. Someone else taped Marnix and although my scores were in the 40's (penalty points. as in Combined Driving) and we won both Intermediate and Advanced, well truth be told we were the only Advanced entry so I guess it doesn't really reflect the real world, and I drove clean in Intermediate, but bumped three balls and was 4 seconds slow at Advanced cones( 20 cms. is so close) If anyone is still interested I will copy and mail for same price and send it out, but not for several weeks. I'll mail and you can reimburse. The Fjords did really well in all the divisions, against a variety of breeds. If you are still interested please let me know. Upfront my taping job was dismal. Gardening and breeding, entertaining my 86 yr. old mother here for the summer, and a Pleasure show in Saratoga Springs, NY will eat up most of my time, but I'll try and respond to any queries. BRAG ALERT Marnix was fantastic at the 2 -Phase and as usual made me look really good any mistakes were definitely mine. He is such a cool individual and has really come a long way since I brought him home two and one half years ago I really love him because he's such a clown.Much like n 8 yr.old male child testing his boundries, very huggable but trying never the less. I'm going to bed now ...Vivian Creigh
Re: Re:Norway
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi List: I've really enjoyed the interesting posts about everyone's trip to Norway, there is however a point brought up in one post, and you'll have to forgive me as I don't save my mail so I don't remember who said what, but someone posted that they asked, I am assuming the Norwegian judges, how they felt about warmblood judges judging the Fjord, and they were aghast. Later on I believe in another post someone said that an English woman now residing in Norway and judging Fjords had originally been a Welsh pony breeder and that she had been very helpful and informative. How is it that she was able to learn correct breed type as it applies to the Fjord and a warmblood judge could not? Are we to assume that Welsh ponies are the same as Fjords? That seems a stretch to me, as I own several Welsh ponies and they are not the same as my Fjords as far as breed type, however correct equine conformation is applicable to both breeds. Capable Sport horse judges are asked to evaluate many different breeds in the Sport Horse world and take into consideration breed type for each. Would it not seem obvious that they would apply breed type to specific breeds, since on most evaluation forms Type is the first issue addressed. And if it is such a faux pas for a warmblood judge to judge Fjords would it not be equally as bad to have a Morgan or Arab judge evaluating our Fjords? I am in total agreement that a warmblood breeder applying Trakhener breed type to a Fjord would miss the all important issue of breed type as it applies to a good Fjord, however a good judge would understand that each breed has different criteria for determining correct type. If that wasn't possible then the woman from England could not adequately judge Fjords nor could any of the people currently on our approved NFHR judge list as they all came from other breeds as the original criteria for judging Fjords was that they hold a judges card in another breed registry. If I have completely misread the content of the posts please forgive me. If I just misunderstood what was said please enlighten me. When I showed dogs another lifetime ago a very wise woman of considerable knowledge told me that to fully appreciate and understand your chosen breeds strength's and weaknesses and improve your eye you should become familiar with a variety of breeds and their standards. I believe she was right on target and I believe the same applies to horses.Thanks, Vivian
Re: Re: fjordhorse-digest
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello List: Not enough hours in these endless beautiful days we have been experiencing here in Vermont, but I thought I'd let everyone know that Juultje, the Keur mare I imported in March had a filly on Sunday morning. Ofcourse I was not home, but Sam handled things just fine. I believe this is the only Lenngard offspring in NA, but I'm not sure. This coming weekend 4 or maybe 5 stallions will be competing at the GMHA Two Phase (Dessage Cones) Marnix, Solar, Kila Grani and LL Hilmar (hopefully) and someone else I have forgotten I will have someone tape all of the dressage tests Is anyone interested in copies? I really hope they all show up as it will be very interesting to see a tape of different Fjords doing driven dressage. Anyone local with a driving stallion I'm sure there is room for more entries. Come on out and join the fun or just come and watch. Vivian
Fjords for Sale
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A friend not on-line wanted me to list two horses for sale. A 7 yr.old mare, rides and drives has done some competing and a been there done that gelding (I'll reluctantly say almost bombproof)who does everything and has competed in CDE's and has done very well in driven dressage. If you or anyone you know in the New England area is interested in either one of these horses please get in touch with me. The seller is very motivated. Please contact me at 802 885 5762 for more information. Vivian Creigh
Re: Re: BUGS !
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Two or three Tbls. of Apple Cider vinegar added to feed works very well to reply flies. It takes a few days of feeding it, I usually start with 1 Tbls and work up to three before it starts to work. You'll know it however because you will smell the vinegar in your horses sweat and on his skin.
Re: Re: Luisa in (1st stage?) Bute use?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just thought I'd post this story as it pertains to foaling in less than ideal surroundings. A woman in VT breeds endangered equines. She had a Chocktaw mare one of only 100 Chocktaws in exsistence, that was suppossed to be foaling in July!!! The barn manager, a very experienced horse person, arrived at the farm the other AM and saw the mare standing in her pasture all tucked up and a placenta on the ground along the fence line. Her first inclination was that the mare had aborted, but when she examined the placenta it looked quite normal, however there was no foal in sight. until she scanned a lower pasture down the hill where the Poitous (spelled wrong) Donkeys are pastured. There was the Chocktaw foal seemingly quite content strolling around with the Donkeys. The foal had apparently rolled down the hill and gotten up with no apparent injury and was making itself at home with the rare breed of donkeys who seemed just as relaxed about having a new pasture mate. Obviously the owner had been misinformed about foaling date so had no reason to believe more suitable accomodations should be made and Mother Nature provided ability and instinct to make the outcome of this unusual story a happy one. And for the Coli's I'll let you know as soon as the urge strikes. By the way where does one buy Uzo? And oh yes only virgin for me. Vivian
Re: Re: Fw: Canola Oil Please Read
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Bill for an informed educational slant to this Canola Oil controversy. Just goes to show the power of the internet. Can be a good thing and then as we have both experienced can be not so..I'm glad I did not rush to purge the pantry of Canola, but I cook with Olive Oil generally speaking. Just a matter of time before that too is linked with some horrific malady Greek Party Distress which is when the mere sight of Feta cheese or calamari leads to an uncontrollable urge to drink Uzo leading to dancing on tables and smashing glasses. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Oh No! Could this be the first warning sign. All the Best Vivian
No Subject
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Would Cynthia Madden please get in touch with me privately I have lost your e-mail and need to finalize July plans. Thanks Vivian Creigh
Re: Re: FJORD MYTHS FJORD FACTS
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just had an interesting conversation with Marge Kitteridge about Fjords in Disabled programs. Marge has been extensively involved with handicapped riding programs for a very long time and I'm just going to tell you what she said about Fjords. This is her opinion, not necessarily mine. Some years back she had two geldings in the program who were not reliable and eventually went on to other pursuits,however the mares she currently has are troopers in every respect. She said that they can stand for hours while blind people groom and touch them, but are equally good at doing a pretty decent training level dressage tests. In her experience she feels the mares are better suited to the program than the geldings. Now I want to say again this is not my opinion, and I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but I found it interesting that Jean's drop outs were both geldings. How about it list. Any star handicapped boys doing service out there? Also on another note. Last year I sent a 5 year old mare to my daughter's event trainer, Karen McCollum for 3 weeks of jumping training. When I called her about 1 week into training this is what she said. Nykka is the highlight of my day. In one week she's learned what it takes me one month to teach my TB's to do. This was Karen's first Fjord experience. I'd like to add that she didn't need to adjust her training methods one iota. What worked for traditional event breeds worked equally as well, perhaps even better, with a typical Fjord. When I spoke with Jo Whitehouse of the USCTA she said she wondered why there weren't more Fjords doing low level eventing and Pony Club as she imagined they would be a godsend in those areas. Now I know Karen M. evented her stallion on the West Coast, but it's the rare Fjord you see at a horse trial in New England. Pat Wolfe bought a gelding from Birgit Deeds,Donner, Ibelieve, who did very well at the GMHA Pony Club clinic. I saw the girl who used to ride him at the clinic and she said she really missed him. Sorry if I got his name wrong. Congratulations Ann Mark. I too had my last born at home. Barring any problems it is the way to go. He's twelve now so it's just a dim but beautiful memory. Good luck and enjoy every minute as I'm sure you will Vivian
Re: Re: Defending Stay-At-Home Mares
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carol, In no way was my letter meant as a personal attack on you or your breeding practices. If that is what you feel, I publically apologize. I was simply pointing out that what you present as theory is in fact proven. I believe I made a statement in regards to quality not quantity, although I dumped the letter after it was sent. This statement referred to the quantity of foals a given mare could produce in her lifetime as oppossed to the measurable quality of breeding a mare with a proven performance record. NOT the fact that you were in fact running a breeding mill for Fjord horses which I know you do not. You have made it quite clear through your posts on this list that the Fjords produced at Beaver Dam Fjords have gone on to exemplary careers all over the country, hence I did not believe your program needed a defense. Again I reprinted the article to offer another criteria by which horse breeders measure the breedability of their mares. Partly because so much is said about stallions and very little offered in the way of information concerning mares. Also just like you and others on the list have chosen to explain your breeding practices I was explaining that performance is a measure of breedability that I use in my program and that I in fact am very proud of how well my mares have done in open competition, it is not the only measure of breedability I use.I am terribly sorry that you felt my post was aimed directly at you and your breeding program.I stand by what I wrote but I apologize again for any misunderstanding that it was in any way a personal attack on you. Vivian Creigh
Re: fitness, amended
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Good morning everyone. I want to clarify what I meant by hard bone. I was talking about the quality of legs that a horse is born with, as in the clean, dry, hard legs Carol R. is talking about as oppossed to spongy and ill defined, not the density of bone that happens through judicious training as a result of increased circulation. All in all this has been a most interesting exchange. I'm done for awhile, someone else.Joel you posted awhile ago trying to steer the direction of the list in a more informative and less inflammatory direction. As I recall it was about the more mechanical aspects of horsemanship such as what bits everyone prefers etc. On the NFHA Equine Journal column... We have members from Canada and Virginia anyone from those approximate geographical areas have anything newsworthy that you'd like me to write about... I send it in tomorrow afternoon. Brian J. or Pat Wolfe. Come on don't be shy Thanks, and have a nice day, Vivian
Re: Re: Defending 'Stay At Home Mares'
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carol, It's not a theory it is a proven fact. I did not write the article, it was written by Dr. Frederick Harper. And it was not written about TBs for racing , but three day event horses. And in it he mentions horses used in a wide range of sport including trail riding. When we were shopping for my daughters next horse, horses whose dam's had evented successfully, had by and large a much higher price and were in higher demand. Again the reprint of the USCTA article plainly states that performance ability and conformation are both measurable heritable traits. So disagree all you wish, but on this one the experts all agree. As for letting the less well conformed mares do the competing. Oh well now that makes alot of sense. It's the mares, geldings and stallions with correct conformation that will win for you at the higher levels, not some poor moving example with nothing much to offer. I included this article on the list as another tool to assessing the breedability of your horses. It is a good breeder's responsibility to make every effort to produce quality animals, not flood the market with inferior stock just to make money. A quality over quantity issue.I love the ads in the Herald that claim a weanling filly will make a good dressage prospect or whatever when neither of her parents has ever been near a dressage arena. How does one measure these unknowns. I for one will continue to only breed mares that have proven themselves off the farm in riding and driving and in open competition against all breeds. I will not mourn the loss of fertile breeding years. Every single baby born here will be a well thought out endeavor, and I will beable to say with pride and certainty that it's dam excelled in one or a few different disciplines. If that has not been your approach that's fine, but do not try and convince people that performance ability is not a heritable trait or that your approach is somehow better. It's just the way you do things. If you remain convinced it's a better way of doing things then you should not have to defend it. By the way my Astrix daughter, a first premium mare, in the Dutch studbook was competed one year. At the end of the year she had Championship ribbons, not just first places, from the Vermont Sleigh Rally series, Combined Driving,Ridden Dressage, and Pony Club Trials,and Wesley who was 9 at the time won the W/T division at the Woodstock show on her. I felt that she had more than proven her worth as a performance animal. This year she'll be bred to Marnix and will spend some time driving in a pair. What exactly have I lost? As far as I'm concerned it's all been gain. Vivian Creigh
Re: Re: Re:V98 #390 type
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well Jean that was exactly my point. That size wasn't a necessary commodity of an agricultural animal, but found it's evolution in wartime pursuits. I want to know by what criteria does a modern American Fjord enthusiast measure draftiness as opposed to riding suitability? I have some pretty drafty type Mares who have been evaluated by European judges, have ster premiums and are very competitive sport performance horses. I think most people who know me and my horses would tell you I favour an athletic type, but my horses all fall within the standard of the correct Fjord and all are used in Combined Driving and Ridden Dressage when they are old enough.As Carol pointed out a Fjord is an all purpose horse and within the standard any correctly conformed animal is or should be capable of doing whatever job be it plowing or dressage without breaking down. I do not want to sacrifice correct Fjord type by breeding for a single feature. Movement rates high on my list of desirable qualities, but as was pointed out to me by a very wise woman from the dog show world Even mutts move well!. So although exceptional (or better than average) movement makes my job easier competing in Combined Driving and Ridden Dressage I would not want to breed soley for that trait ignoring correct breed type. I know what I think, what I am asking is for those of you who favour a specific type to explain the differences to me. Height, weight, shoe size. What motivates you to choose one kind over the other and specifically why? Maybe through discussion on the list we will find that there really aren't all these different types out there. Simply good Fjords and not so good Fjords. And maybe I will have a clearer picture of noticeable differences between types that fall within the parameters of the standard. Inform me. To Lynda. The NFHA is the Northeast Fjord Horse Association and it was formed primarily to run the Woodstock Fjord Show, but we have member from as far away as VA.
No Subject
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To members on the list, and specifically members of the NFHA. Time has come for my May column in the NE Equine Journal. I have nothing new of interest to report without your help. I invite all Fjord people to send me info on what's up in your area, what kinds of things you've been doing or plan to do with your Fjords in short anything of interest. This equine paper has a large circulation and is sold in most tack shops in the North East. I have had comments from many of my non Fjord friends saying they read the breed columns and certainly newcomers seeking info on the breed read it. So give me some news and consider joining the NFHA. It's a great org. which sponsors yearly clinics and fun days. Help Thanks Vivian
Re: Re:V98 #390 type
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Joel, Thanks for responding. Do you know what the historical origins of the big breeds are? I have only vague historical understanding of how they evolved, but It was my belief that the giant breeds evolved due to wartime necessities. That they came from the farm, but were specifically bred for size to accomodate the weight of knights in armor as well as pulling catapults and implements of feudal mass distruction not necessarily because that size was more desirable on the farm. Having a massive animal would certainly be more intimidating and I would think lend an advantage in a joust. That their large size also became an advantage when moving large and heavy loads( such as massive stones used to build the victor's new castle) far heavier than anything a pair of Fjords needed to move on the average farm. However if the Fjords ancestors were on the Viking ships it was their small, stocky stature, their tractable nature and their ability to exist well on meager forage that made them an asset to those randy Norsemen. As for heavy bone and size of feet it has always been my understanding that it's not so much the size of the bone, but how hard it is, which is where I believe Carol's explanation of dry, hard legs comes in, as opposed to spongy soft legs and that the same thing can be said of feet. That a well shaped hard hoove was more desirable than a large soft round foot. How large are your horses feet? Is height something you consider in choosing a draft type?Do you shoe them for farm work? I am in no way suggesting that Fjord's should be refined as in weak or weedy. Fjords long legged or short should be round bodied and substantial with nice broad flat backs with more curves than sharp angles with ample bone for their bodies. Justin Morgan the foundation of the Morgan breed in this country was a work horse first and a race horse after hours. Although I'm quite sure he had adequate bone for his size I'm not sure it was excessive and probably more refined than the modern draft breeds. I'm interested in hearing from someone who has more historical knowlege of the giants evolution. Am I even close? Thanks also to Carol for her support. the only point of issue I have is that not everyone can determine good conformation. Some people never get IT. But a knowledgeable horseman with good working knowledge of conformation and a good eyecan easily interpret good Fjord type. No trips to Norway necessary, nor years of studying.This is true of so much involving equines. Give the tried and true experts a standard and Bob's books as a pictorial reference and he or she will beable to recognize breed type. Sport horse judges are asked to judge a wide range of body types with breed specific characteristics and it has been my experience that the good ones with years of experience and much success find the best horses regardless of their personal breed or type preference.Again somepeople will never beable to see it., some were born with it and most of us have to learn it. Vivian
Reprint of USCTA article
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is a reprint from the USCTA NEWS January/February 1999 it is part of an article entitled Care for your Broodmare and foal written by Dr. Frederick Harper, Extension Horse Specialist University of Tennessee. In exchange for allowing me to post this on the list the USCTA asked if I would encourage you to visit their web-site at www.eventingusa.com. Not Every Mare Is a Broodmare You may have heard the old saying, Every hen thinks her chicks are the best. Mare owner are often barn blind too, thinking their mares will be great broodmares. Sellers notoriously declare that if a filly or a mare does not perform well that they will make great broodmares due to their pedigrees. This is a contradictory statement. If a filly or mare is not a good performer,it is questionable that she will be a good broodmare. The reason is simply genetic. One of the best methods of predicting an animals genetic ability to produce good foals is it's performance record. If you want to be the breeder of a top three day event horse, you need to select a mare and stallion with outstanding performance records in eventing. The same holds true if you are interested in racing, dressage, cutting, jumping team penning, or trail riding. You must choose proven performers to be future broodmares. Performance ability and conformation are both measurable heritable traits; that is, they can be transmitted genetically from a mare to her foals. The article goes onto say. Too often, owners rely solely on a mare's pedigree in making breeding decisions. While pedigrees should not be ignored, they are of less genetic value than the mare's performance record or that of her foals. In this time of increasing high prices and demand for good performance horses, mare owners must determine the genetic potential of each mare before breeding her. This increases profitablity and contributes to the future genetic pool of the breed. Select your broodmares carefully before selecting stallions to breed to them. by Dr. Frederick Harper reprinted with permission of the United States Combined Training Assoc.,Inc. I thought this might be of interest to those of you on the list. Especially with spring and breeding season coming right up. Vivian
Re: Spring may come!!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Since the list has been so quiet of late and some have expressed interest in pepping it up I thought I would bring up one of my pet peeves. That is the use of the word type. Often you will see people post things in regards to liking or breeding for, or owning a draft type or someone may be interested in a more refined Riding type, but this is not the correct usage of the word type. Type can be defined as the overall traits that make a Fjord a Fjord. Within that spectrum you can have drafty and refined horses that both exhibit good Fjord type, and if they have correct conformation will be equally suited to performing a wide range of jobs. By the same token you can have a drafty animal or a refined Riding horse that does not have correct Fjord type. For that matter what exactly is everyone's definition of drafty or refined. And if I choose to use my Fjords in agricultural work what makes the drafty type better suited to this than a refined type. It seems to me that attitude, willingness and athletic ability are required to succeed as a working animal. Not his size or body type and if we endeavor to breed good Fjords wouldn't we select them from throughout the entire spectrum based on conformation, performance ability and good Fjord type rather than only limiting ourselves to draft or riding types. Rather than divide the Fjord horse into two opposing groups, the drafts vs. the riding type, we should all be more concerned with preserving correct Fjord type in our animals. To that end we all need to recognize what that is and that within the standard there exist certain criteria which make a Fjord a Fjord. It is quite possible to have an animal with the correct conformation outlined in the standard, but by the same token he is not strong for type. On the Dutch eval sheet the first category falls under the heading of TYPE. There are four choices listed 1. good, 2.simple (plain or homely without clear Fjord type), 3.out of proportion, 4. too short (this is not a reference to exact height so much as a general impression of the animal's overall balance or height to length ratio. This is the category which addresses draft vs riding type a horse might be short ie. drafty, but it is a fault to be too short) Type is the first thing they address in the evaluation of a horse. Then they break down the horse into parts starting with the head and ending with movement. Well what do you guys on the list think? Next topic movement. Carol you should be interested on my thoughts on that one.For now I'm off to enjoy the incredible balmy weather we are presently experiencing in Vt. before the earth underfoot turns into quicksand and my horses all look like they have been dipped in chocolate. Vivian Creigh, Rainbow's End Farm
Re: REAL VIRUS WARNING!!!!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I use a Mac Performa 6300 and couldn't open the attached file that came with Catherine's post although in my ignorance I tried. Just got alot of code and a message saying I needed Win32 to read file. I have dumped the file and all my attempted convertions. My question? Since this is a Windows program and I use a Mac and I ran Virex (The virus detection program that came with my computer) which detected no problems am I safe? or should I say are you safe? Sorry, but this stuff is too creepy for words Hahahahaha. Ijust got that. Vivian Creigh
Re: Weaning
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I tried Jean's approach on my first foals and found it a nuisance for many reasons. This coming from a woman who nursed all her children well beyond their second birthdays. Anyway I like to wean around five months depending on the mare's condition and I will pass along a tip I got from an old horseman who was probably born in a stall and will most likely die in one. Wean on the waning moon and rub the mares udder with a mixture of egg-whites and Bag Balm to help it shrink and take the heat out of it. Maureen van Bon, Bob's daughter, was working for me when I got this advice and she has probably been involved in several 100 weanings in her short life. She was understandably skeptical as was I but we had two foals to wean at the time so we figured why not. We moved the foals on the waning moon to a pasture out of sight of their mother's(as I remember there were other horses in with the babies) and that evening rubbed the mare's bag with the magical potion of albumin and Bag Balm. I think we might have heard them call once or twice the first day and then never again even though they all shared the same barn at night. Even Maureen was convinced that there was something to Pinkie's advice. Ever since then I've followed this advice and have never had any problems. Vivian Creigh
Re: Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #377
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mary Brian, I am in total agreement with you both. I am totally capable of giving vaccinations, but always have my vet do them. It seems totally unfair to expect her to come rushing out when I need her for some emergency when I haven't done her the service of using her for routine work. Also for the reasons Mary mentioned, she gets to see all my horses and if there's something that crops up later she'll know that the horses looked fine when she saw them last. Next to my farrier, my vet is my biggest insurance against keeping my horses sound and healthy. Vivian
