Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: Debby Stai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Pamela, where do you get your almond milk from? My daughter and I both do not eat meat, I try to get my calcium from enriched foods and she drinks soy milk, loves their choc. milk and I'm sure she'd love to try something different. Debby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > In a message dated 1/22/01 8:07:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > And while we're bemoaning the fate of all those > > peeline foals, let's not forget to think about what > > happens to most of those cute little dairy calves that > > are born every year so that we can all drink milk. > > > > One of the good things about our special dairy free diet in this house! > We drink almond milk, rice milk or soy milk. Add calcium and you've got a > great drink. I recommend almond milk to pour on cereal even if you drink > regular cows milk! Almond milk is DELICIOUS! > > Pamela
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/22/01 8:07:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > And while we're bemoaning the fate of all those > peeline foals, let's not forget to think about what > happens to most of those cute little dairy calves that > are born every year so that we can all drink milk. > One of the good things about our special dairy free diet in this house! We drink almond milk, rice milk or soy milk. Add calcium and you've got a great drink. I recommend almond milk to pour on cereal even if you drink regular cows milk! Almond milk is DELICIOUS! Pamela
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: "truman matz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mary, you don't need to don your flame suit and run. Reality is reality. I live in dairy country, and MOST of the bulls bred to the Holsteins are beef bulls, and I would roughly guess that ALL of those babies go for hamburg. They A-I when they want replacement heifers. I don't know as I've ever seen a Holstein bull at any of the farms, but lots of Black Angus Bulls. And while we're talking about those big, beautiful sad eyes, what about all the "Bambi's" that get shot and eaten every year? Chickens, pigs? If folks are gonna gripe, we better start seeing a whole lot more vegetarians! And, I might add that I've seen a lot of dog owners on this list,... wonder what their dogs eat. And one last point which I've already seen mentioned here somewhere,... some countries eat horse meat as frequently as our country eats beef. Does that make them terrible people and Americans compassionate people? (The steers don't think so!) Granted, it breaks my heart to know that some horses that are better than some in backyards are ending up on somebody's dinner plate. But that's life. I know it doesn't sound like it, but to keep the record straight, I've been an AVID horse lover since I was a kid. (Back then I'd walk 7 miles just to see a hoof print in the sand, and it was a thrill to see a pile of manure!) I still have a passion for horses. But reality is reality. I didn't say I liked it. Judy -Original Message- From: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Date: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Alternative " Ranching " >This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> In a message dated 1/21/01 1:18:17 AM Eastern >> Standard Time, >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >> >> << >> What happens to most of those cute little dairy calves that >are born every year so that we can all drink milk. >Believe me, not all(in fact very few) of them are kept >as 'replacement cows' - and that applies only to the >heifers. Where do you think most of those cute little >bull calves wind up? Reality check time. Farmin' >ain't always pretty. > >Mary, donning flame suit and running now. > > > >= >Mary Thurman >Raintree Farms >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ >
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: "truman matz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Did I mention in my note to Mary that I also detest rodeos because of the cruelty to animals? J. Thanks, Mike, for your realistic approach to a sad situation. -Original Message- From: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Date: Monday, January 22, 2001 10:53 AM Subject: Re: Alternative " Ranching " > If you want to read about all of the horrors of Animals in Agriculture, >Circus, Rodeo's etc, etc then go here: > >http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=11 > > > > >
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: "Denise Delgado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> listers, as for the premarin. it is true, the "natural" stuff derived from mares urine works better in some people. i myself use the estridiol patch. it is an estrogen too, and my body has no trouble with it. my mother died on premarin also, 2 yrs ago, an estrogen dependent breast tumor with metastases. they used to use much higher doses. i do not object to mare farming or the use of the foals, for both sale and meat. if this system of obtaining estrogens is available to help some people it should be utilized. a few months ago there was an excellent unbiased series of articles presented in one of the horse mags. i remember the list discussing it then. everyone interested in horses for work or food, should read the articles. they were very informative, presented the bare facts without euphemisms, had photos etc. there is an ethical question as to what we should do with all the old horses, unwanted horses, uncared for horses and unadoptable horses. the situation they find themselves in, for whatever reason is very dired indeed. if shipping (shipping humanely, that's another story) them to slaughter will eliminate one minute of their suffering, be it from arthritis, cushings or whatever, i am all for it. the meat, depending on the grade, can be put to good use as animal feed or for shipment overseas to asia or europe for people to eat. historically all the old and worked out animals were eaten. why throw away good protein? we eat little fluffy lambs and baby chickens and pigs...just about everything. and they are ALL so cute. but that is life. cattle is just too expensive in the feed to meat ratio. chickens are the most efficient at converting feed to meat. horses are'nt far behind. but the meat available for sale were all horses that were in the above catagories. i know of no horsemeat farms specially for meat sale. there are probably some out there, i just don't know of them. in europe, they like and eat horsemeat. they have shops specifically dedicated to its sale. they make all kinds of cuts, similar to beef and even make sausage. which, in germany, was very good, i might add. there is no stigma attached to eating it and they call it "horsemeat." the europeans love their horses as much as americans and the ones that are lucky enough to have a good home, are cared for and pampered. i think we have an idealization in this country about the horse because it was so involved in western expansion. think of sayings like; "the way life used to be," "the cowboy way," "life used to be so much simpler,".and what comes to mind? a picture of a horse is almost always thrown in there somewhere. but life is different now and there are too many horses to be cared for properly. i vote for humane slaughter as opposed to suffering anymore. denise in sierra foothills, calif.
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: Don & Jane Brackett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reality check time. Farmin' >ain't always pretty. You said it Mary. I am personally a failed farmer. Breeding and producing a product from animals is hard. Every year, at the kitched table with pen and paper, I could do it. No. 5 doesn't lamb easily, no. 30 has a crappy fleece, no. 28 has a poor loin length and leg size, so they go on the truck to be food. I don't have a problem with lamb, I actually like it quite alot. But actally making the decisions and carrying them out is very hard, No. 5 is so friendly, and I'd spent so much time helping her to have those lambs, no. 30 is also a great pet, on a dark night lamb check she's the one to get up and come to me for a scratch, and all those lambs that you work so hard to keep alive and healthy so that you can kill them later! So you see not nice. I have cried buckets, and felt like throwing myself in front of the truck to be run down as it pulled out. So now after 10 years of trying, I have just a huge flock of PETS! I also drink milk and eat foods made from eggs..I am forever grateful that there are people out there who can and do farm. They have my admiration. Jane, with two extra children in the house I can't go out to ride! :(
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > In a message dated 1/21/01 1:18:17 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << > What is the name of the hormone medicine made from > the mares urine? > You would be speaking of "Premarin", and there is a > perfectly good synthetic > alternative, but it doesn't make the big clicks for > the Druggies, so it's > downplayed. And, my dear, if you were a woman who needed hormone replacement you would also be aware of the sad fact that the synthetic alternative does not work as well - or as consistently - as the real stuff! It's sad, but unfortunately true - due, I was told, to the fact that the controls on the production of the synthetic drug are not as stringent(ie., quality control) as those on the production of premarin. Maybe that's one of the reasons that the synthetic is cheaper?:) And while we're bemoaning the fate of all those peeline foals, let's not forget to think about what happens to most of those cute little dairy calves that are born every year so that we can all drink milk. Believe me, not all(in fact very few) of them are kept as 'replacement cows' - and that applies only to the heifers. Where do you think most of those cute little bull calves wind up? Reality check time. Farmin' ain't always pretty. Mary, donning flame suit and running now. = Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 08:02 AM 1/22/01 -0800, you wrote: And while we're bemoaning the fate of all those peeline foals, let's not forget to think about what happens to most of those cute little dairy calves that are born every year so that we can all drink milk. Believe me, not all(in fact very few) of them are kept as 'replacement cows' - and that applies only to the heifers. Where do you think most of those cute little bull calves wind up? Reality check time. Farmin' ain't always pretty. No it isn't Mary. I would guess that a lot of people don't realize that they are probably feeding those peeline foals & the dairy calves to their dogs & cats every day too. Here is an interesting site that tells you all of what goes into Fido's bag of food. http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=79 If you want to read about all of the horrors of Animals in Agriculture, Circus, Rodeo's etc, etc then go here: http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=11
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > tend to comply with standing in tie stalls, catherized for > months. ) These mares are not catheterized. It's a free catch system (at least the ones I know of). Also, the mares do get a required amount of time for turn out. The mares are brought inside in the fall and spend the winter indoors (not a good time to be outside in Canada anyway). During this time they do get periods of turn out. Then in the spring they are turned out to foal. Yes, it's not an ideal life of a horse, but I think their life is better than the image most people have. I'm sure there are some farms that are more reputable than others, too. But with all the recent publicity, I'm sure this will change. > > I also do not stomach auctions that sell horses to the (always there > in the > back row,) meat guys. > I don't like to think of this either, but what are we supposed to do with all the surplus of horses? It pains me to think of some horse that has provided good service and/or companionship to its owner and then is crammed into a trailer with a bunch of others and taken to slaughter. But what is the solution? I have a client with a sadistic sense of humor. He deals in sport horses and everytime I tell him a horse is not fit for his use due to some injury, he tells me "You've just made some Belgian boy very happy" (i.e. this horse is going to slaughter). It irritates me when I have a client that has a mare that they want to breed because "we think it would be good for her" or "it would be fun to have a foal around". OK, but what is going to happen to that foal when it grows up? Also, I think with the scare of mad cow disease in Europe there is going to be even more demand for horse meat. Lisa, these comments aren't directed at you. Just my general ramblings to the list. Steve Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/21/01 1:18:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << What is the name of the hormone medicine made from the mares urine? If I ever need it, I don't want that one!! >> You would be speaking of "Premarin", and there is a perfectly good synthetic alternative, but it doesn't make the big clicks for the Druggies, so it's downplayed. Merek
Re: Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our Meat Guys are always in the Front Reserved Seats !! Although I did find out, not all of them go to the canner, alot of these guys see a good deal and are actually horse traders, What is the name of the hormone medicine made from the mares urine? If I ever need it, I don't want that one!! Michele Noonan (who is 35, didnt see my name on the list, saw hubby's though) Mom to Fjords Opal (11) Tone' (7) NFH Gracie (7) and two soon to be born foals Our kids are Jake 18 (on Monday), and hates horses Mandy 15 and lives for the LIST and rides daily, Patrick (6)and Riley(5), (the wild little red head boys, trying to keep them off the horses)
Alternative " Ranching "
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/20/01 11:30:11 AM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I cannot handle going to those sales, as half the horses go to slaughter, and that only because people have NOT taken care of them, or because they breed w/o purpose and so the result is like a bunch of yearlings etc with nowhere to go. Probably a few of the Belgians that came thru are out of peelines(sp?) Sorry, just had to steam off here. G Janne in ND >> Otherwise known as Premerin Lines. ( They make a hormone replacment for menopase age women out of mare urine, and the drafts are bigger, thus more pee, and tend to comply with standing in tie stalls, catherized for months. ) Yes, one of the major player in pee ranching is in the Dakotas. The other biggies are mostly in Canada. My rancher friend, Jack, in Sask. Canada, see's 100's of Draft and Draft crosses run through the spring auctions each week. All foals, and they sell for 50.00 to the meat guy. A result of keeping the Premerin mares, bred, thus making the hormone thats needed. The older ones get more, by the pound. All sent to the canners for the Europeian markets and Japan, for consumption. I also do not stomach auctions that sell horses to the (always there in the back row,) meat guys.Lisa
