Re: LIVE FOAL GUARANTEE
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hi from Carol at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia > >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:22:08 -0600 >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: FAMOUS FJORD FERTILITY & BDF Toril > >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Carol, > >You've confused me here. First you said you don't do a live foal >guarantee and then you say you would take a mare back the next year with >no extra charge. That sounds like a live foal guarantee. > >Steve > No, it's not a live foal guarantee. Our job is to get the mare safely bred. If we should fail to get her in foal during one breeding season (which by the way, we never have), then we'd allow the mare back for a second breeding season to try and get her in foal. Once she's vet checked safely in foal, and we recommend 45 days, then we've completed our part of the obligation. At that point, the balance of the stud fee is due. If I didn't make that clear, I apologise. --- We've also never had a mare bred by Gjest or any other stallion we've had, abort a pregnancy. Good luck I guess . . . or maybe just good Gjest Genes. Regards, Carol Hello Again, Steve - No wonder you're confused! I just reread my original message, and what I said was not what I meant. We do not offer a Live Foal Guarantee! We do have the best interest of the client foremost in mind, and that means satisfying them -- giving them what they came to us for, so if the mare didn't get bred in one season, we'd take her back the next. If she aborted soon after leaving us, we'd probably take her back also. But, if she had a stillborn foal, we would not take her back without an additional stud fee. We've never had a mare we bred not get in foal, and never had one not produce a foal, so I've not had any experience with the problem. But, if we did, I'd still have the best interest of the customer foremost in mind, and would try to satisfy him. In every aspect of our business, we have the satisfaction of the customer as the #1 priority. This is not written in contracts, but we have an earned reputation to maintain. We value our customers' trust, and enjoy satisfying them. And, I must say, we VERY MUCH ENJOY becoming friends with our customers, something you won't enjoy if you don't treat them right. That's just the way it is, and how we've done business for twenty years. Customers are always saying to us - "We've gotten much more than we thought we would." Horse Sale customers, and Beginner Driving Vacation guests as well. That's the goal we work towards. Sorry about the confusion. Definitely my fault. Regards, Carol Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: LIVE FOAL GUARANTEE
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hi from Carol at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia > >Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:22:08 -0600 >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: FAMOUS FJORD FERTILITY & BDF Toril > >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Carol, > >You've confused me here. First you said you don't do a live foal >guarantee and then you say you would take a mare back the next year with >no extra charge. That sounds like a live foal guarantee. > >Steve > No, it's not a live foal guarantee. Our job is to get the mare safely bred. If we should fail to get her in foal during one breeding season (which by the way, we never have), then we'd allow the mare back for a second breeding season to try and get her in foal. Once she's vet checked safely in foal, and we recommend 45 days, then we've completed our part of the obligation. At that point, the balance of the stud fee is due. If I didn't make that clear, I apologise. --- We've also never had a mare bred by Gjest or any other stallion we've had, abort a pregnancy. Good luck I guess, or maybe just good Gjest Genes. Regards, Carol Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: live foal guarantee
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> By "that's because men are level headed" Steve do you mean flat headed??? Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes & Noble Book Stores
live foal guarantee
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/7/01 8:12:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I never really understood this arrangement. Why is it the stallions responsibility to guarantee a live foal, especially up to 24hrs. post foaling? Once the mare conceives the stallion should be off the hook. If the mare loses the pregnancy it is most likely a problem with her. Why should the stallion owner be burdened with the time and expense of another breeding? Once the mare is checked in foal with ultrasound by a veterinarian the breeding guarantee should end there. I think the live foal guarantee is just a tradition that dates back before the days of modern reproductive science. A live foal then assured the stallion had done his job (especially in the days when breeding was all live cover). Now that we have techniques to evaluate semen and ultrasound to ensure a good pregnancy, I feel the live foal guarantee is obsolete. Instead we should have a conception guarantee. IMHO Steve Steve, I couldn't agree with you more!! That has been my policy for a number of years. IMHO once I get a mare in foal, I and my stallions have accomplished our mission. Some owners do not properly care for their mares, don't give Pneumabort - K, etc. Why then should the burden be that of the stallion owner? My breeding contract says that the mare must be given Pneumabort - K at the proper intervals. I ultrasound at 15 days and recommend that she be rechecked at 45 days. However, I cannot police owners to make sure that they uphold their end of the agreement?! I have been a breeder and stallion owner for a number of years with Fjords as well as other breeds. My stallions have all had good quality semen. Whenever I've had trouble, 100% of the time it has been due to problems with the mare - uterine infection, urine pooling, hormone imbalances, mare not cycling correctly, cystic ovaries - the list goes on. I've spent up to 4 years trying to get some mares in foal. GRRR! I must say, however, those were mostly Quarter Horses. The Fjords have proven to be much more fertile and have given me far fewer gray hairs. Since breeding season is not far away, just wanted to shed a little light on this subject from the stallion owners viewpoint. Thanks for bringing up the subject, Steve! Gayle Ware Field of Dreams Eugene, OR www.fjordhorse.com
Re: live foal guarantee
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > that the only major objections to this mare > receiving a live, viable foal at the end of her term, are the MALE > listers? That's because men are so much more level headed than women. Running for cover, Steve Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska
Re: famous fjord fertility/ live foal guarantee
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/7/01 2:29:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > However, having said that, there is another player in the > equation (the mare). How many people do a pre-breeding mare exam and > ultrasound to determine if the mare is reproductively sound, and > where she is in her cycle so as to optimize positive outcome? > On another post regarding live foal guarantee, I think such > guarantees, while they are more or less the norm, seem to put too > much onus on the stallion for a successful outcome. I mean, if the > stallion settles a mare, and she is confirmed to be bred 21 days or > so later, hasn't he done his job? A lot of things can go wrong after > that point, related to mare illness, nutrition, and injury, that can > results in a weak or still born foal. I fail to see why this should > automatically be laid on the stallion's doorstep. Raising hand here. To get a nice foal you have to be willing to do the work. And part of the work IS the pre-breeding exams, and post-breeding care. I don't think the onus is strictly or automatically laid on the stallion's doorstep, but $1000 (plus all the vet expense) is not chump change. And if things fail, do to NO human error, that's a lot of cash and hard work for the mare owner. One scenario here,what if the foal is deformed and the mare aborts? The stallion has done his job, yes. But what if it was HIS semen that caused the deformity? . I read my breeding contract again, and there are lots of things the mare owner MUST do to ensure that the LFG is honored. Four pages of legalese. But it is protection to both the stallion and the mare owner. If the mare doesn't produce a live foal, the stallion owner requires a certificate from the vet that all was done for the mare, with dates of vaccines, ultrasounds, etc. etc. Also it brings up the health and nutrition of the mare, and whether the birth was attended. I think the LFG works, when proper controls are applied and if it works, why fix it? Pamela, Being simplistic again, but I'm still really sleep deprived!!!
Re: famous fjord fertility/ live foal guarantee
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > On another post regarding live foal guarantee, I think such > guarantees, while they are more or less the norm, seem to put too > much onus on the stallion for a successful outcome. I mean, if the > stallion settles a mare, and she is confirmed to be bred 21 days or > so later, hasn't he done his job? I fail to see why this should > automatically be laid on the stallion's doorstep. Finally! Someone that agrees with me. Thanks William. Steve Steve and Amy White Prairieholm Farm Waterloo, Nebraska
Re: live foal guarantee
This message is from: "truman matz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I guess this has nothing to do with anything, but has anyone else noted that those who are staunchly objecting to the mare being guaranteed a foal,... after a year's wait, after an expensive stud fee, after all kinds of vet tests, and on and on,... that the only major objections to this mare receiving a live, viable foal at the end of her term, are the MALE listers? Judy PS You did make several good points. Just not good enough, IMHO. ** . I fail to see why this should automatically be laid on the stallion's doorstep. Other opinions? --- William M. ColiPhone: 413-545-1051 Extension Educator FAX: 413-545-5858 IPM Program CoordinatorEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dept. Of Entomology UMASS Amherst MA 01003 " In all things of nature, there is something of the marvelous" Aristotle
famous fjord fertility/ live foal guarantee
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have been lurking a lot lately, but would like to chime in on the fertility thread. While I agree that maintaining fertility is important in the breed, and as a stallion owner, would of course have testing done if required by NFHR, I wonder what is to be really gained by annual testing of stallions or if it is apropriate to North America. How many North American stallions are covering more than a few (perhaps to a few dozen) mares a year? Obviously, in a state run breeding program that limits the number of approved stalions, that means more mares for each stud to cover, and adequate fertility for that much use would be a must. It would seem the responsibility of an ethical breeder whose stallion was frequently failing to impregnate mare to have his/her stallion tested whether it is required or not. However, having said that, there is another player in the equation (the mare). How many people do a pre-breeding mare exam and ultrasound to determine if the mare is reproductively sound, and where she is in her cycle so as to optimize positive outcome? On another post regarding live foal guarantee, I think such guarantees, while they are more or less the norm, seem to put too much onus on the stallion for a successful outcome. I mean, if the stallion settles a mare, and she is confirmed to be bred 21 days or so later, hasn't he done his job? A lot of things can go wrong after that point, related to mare illness, nutrition, and injury, that can results in a weak or still born foal. I fail to see why this should automatically be laid on the stallion's doorstep. Other opinions? --- William M. ColiPhone: 413-545-1051 Extension Educator FAX: 413-545-5858 IPM Program CoordinatorEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dept. Of Entomology UMASS Amherst MA 01003 " In all things of nature, there is something of the marvelous" Aristotle
Re: Live foal guarantee question
This message is from: "truman matz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Philis, If you signed a contract WITH a live foal guarantee, that should cover you for this particular breeding. Which means you should be able to re-breed with no further fees, other than handling or something. (If your mare slips, absorbs, or even has a still born, if that was included in the contract for this particular breeding.) They'll find some way to get a few more bucks, but NOTHING like a stud fee. It really all depends on what was in your contract that everybody signed. Judy -Original Message- From: Philis Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: fjordhorse-digest 2 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:22 AM Subject: Live foal guarantee question >This message is from: "Philis Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I have a question about the concept of "live foal" guarantee.and I may >not be able to read an answer from..Steve White, or whoever would know. >Am getting ready to fly to San Francisco to play a concertof course >the "storm of the winter" is hitting just as I depart...bummer, and the >story of my musical travel life. >If the stallion owner drops the live foal guarantee and the bred mare >absorbs the fetus or whatever, does that mean that the stallion owner would >again reap another $800.00---$1000.00 to rebreed the mare for one tiny >sperm? At that rate, I'm out of the foaling business. >If I make it back alive..I'll see if anybody responded to my question. >Keep safe, all of you who are dealing with this storm. >Philis Anderson > >
Live foal guarantee question
This message is from: "Philis Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have a question about the concept of "live foal" guarantee.and I may not be able to read an answer from..Steve White, or whoever would know. Am getting ready to fly to San Francisco to play a concertof course the "storm of the winter" is hitting just as I depart...bummer, and the story of my musical travel life. If the stallion owner drops the live foal guarantee and the bred mare absorbs the fetus or whatever, does that mean that the stallion owner would again reap another $800.00---$1000.00 to rebreed the mare for one tiny sperm? At that rate, I'm out of the foaling business. If I make it back alive..I'll see if anybody responded to my question. Keep safe, all of you who are dealing with this storm. Philis Anderson
