RE: founder update.
This message is from: "Frederick J Pack" Valerie, I forgot to mention to add the powders (with very little grain) to some soaked beet pulp. Give it a toss in the pan (like you would stir fries) to mix the powder with the pulp. The powder will adhere to the beet pulp. Fred On Behalf Of brass-ring-f...@juno.com Subject: founder update. This message is from: brass-ring-f...@juno.com Thank you Fred, and all the other people who have helped me with advice and support. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw Classified Ads: http://tinyurl.com/5b5g2f
Re: Founder
This message is from: "Susan Felix" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Susan from Colorado: I regards to Founder, I have tried the muzzle on Ramsey and he has managed to remove it every time and then after clever haltering it stayed on for about 2 days then he totally destroyed it. So I went to plan B and he is in a dry lot in the am with grass hay for the morning , then gets turned out around 12:00noon or 1:00pm then he comes in at around 6;00pm. Our pasture is not tall grass just a mixture of dirt and grass. I do this from May to July . Then after that he goes out all day. He is worked 3 to 4 times a week. I do it after work and weekends to keep his weight down. He doesn't get grain , just grass hay and bran mash with wheat germ oil to keep him regular once a week. My vet says this seems to be working good and it is important he has grass hay in his stomach in the am before turn out. I do this route with my Arab also and they seem to be ok.
Re: Founder, Rotation, and shoes
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Jennie- Bonnie looks better already! She does have a beautiful dark golden glow to her coat. On barefoot, founder, and natural horse care: two books you should invest in are Horse Owner's Guide to Natural Hoof Care and Founder: Prevention and Cure, both by Jaime Jackson. Lots of good information, no pseudoscience, lots of photos. These and other resources available at http://home.alltel.net/star/ / )_~ /L/L Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.Brigid.Clickryder.com
Re: Founder, Rotation, and shoes
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jennie, The Rural Heritage magazine has a great website that may be of help: The Farrier section http://www.ruralheritage.com/village_smithy/index.htm they also have a "Ask the Blacksmith section at the bottom of the list. http://www.ruralheritage.com/messageboard/villagesmithy/index1.htm To ask a question, however, you have to register and subscribe or pay a small fee. I know there are some farriers on this list too. Jean in Clear and sunny Fairbanks, Alaska, will be HOT! this afternoon: 85 degrees! > >I watched that Horse Shoeing Time on RFDTV last nite. Just so happened to >have a foundered pony on there. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: founder, vaccinations
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Steve, all The fjordlist has a broader reach than you might suspect. I just forwarded this to a friend who has recurrent uveitis...who is being asked, as a health care responder, to be vaccinated for small pox. Her family has a history of auto-immune diseaseAND terrible reactions to the small pox vaccine. She can correlate her uveitis attacks with school exams, and with lapses in avoiding wheat/gluten in ANY formso I suspect that she may try to refuse the small pox vaccine. > >Yes, I agree that vac. and worming *can* aggravate moon blindness.
Re: founder, vaccinations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eileen, Yes, I agree that vac. and worming *can* aggravate moon blindness. But the underlying condition that caused the problem is already there (autoimmune). I would say this is true for any animal or person that has an immune disorder (that vaccines and certain drugs can affect it). It seems like many things can cause ERU to flare up (stress, infections, etc.). Aspirin, bute, and banamine do seem to help prevent flare ups. Steve Steve White, DVM Sport Horse Vet. Service Gretna, NE A strange stillness dwells in the eye of the horse, a composure that appears to regard the world from a measured distance... It is a gaze from the depths of a dream... - Hans-Heinrich Isenbart
Re: founder, vaccinations
This message is from: Eileen Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Steve, Luckily, I don't know much about founder. However, I do know that vaccinations and worming *do* aggravate an auto-immune condition called equine recurrent uveitus (moon blindness). Coincidently, I just received my ERU newsletter, with at least one member advocating bute for horses that suffer from ERU right before vaccinations. Paste and tube worming seem to aggravate this condition too... So, I'm really a fan of supplements and homepathic approaches to boosting the horse's immune system. And I am careful about administering both wormers and vaccinations to my Appy's, who are so prone to auto-immune related conditions. Eileen Perry (who has travelled throughout many 3rd world countries, don't remember seeing any Fjords!) West Richland WA > > > Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 19:15:30 -0800 > From: "fjordcountry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: founder > > This message is from: "fjordcountry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I have treated many foundered horses as a therapeutic farrier and favor the > following methods. If you have a deep sandy area for the horse to be put in > this is a great natural support system for the hoof and enclosed bony column > i.e. coffin bone. What a laminitic horse needs is support to the rear portion > of the hoof, around the frog, bars and heels which enables him to relieve the > pressure on the front part of the hoof where the coffin bone is close to the > sole. If you use sand make sure you provide an area of soft sawdust for him to > lay in or he will get "bedsores" from the abrasive sand. If sand is > unavailable then I prefer the two inch thick styrofoam duct taped to the foot > method until the horse stablelizes (from several days to several weeks). Then > pads with dental impression material underneath in the rear portion of the > foot only. In more severe cases I prefer the Equine Digit Support System over > heart bar shoes because of the ease of changing pressure, heel angles etc. > without removing the shoes. Also the horse can tell the farrier immediately > if he likes the pressure, elevation etc. > It is my opinion that many "cushings" diagnosed horses are really victims > of a broken down immune system and I'm going to cause some controversy here by > saying I believe over vaccinating, worming with chemical wormers, processed > feeds etc. are the culprits that are causing the increase in this disease as > well as many others in our horse world today. Comments? I have successfully > treated horses with this condition by using alternative medicine approaches. > Enjoying your educational and just plain fun discussions!! > Rock'n Kathi at > Rock'n KW Fjords > Chelan, WA. > > -
Re: founder
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kathi, You had me, but then you lost me. I agree with your theories on hoof support. Sand is an excellent way of providing even support to the sole. Also, the sheets of styrofoam insulation are great to have around to tape to the feet when you have a foundered horse or for any sore footed horse. However, you lost me with the "chemical dewormers" and the vaccinations. I have a big problem with the term chemical. Many years ago we did use harsh chemicals to deworm animals (and people) because it was all that we had. Today, the active ingredient in the wormers are very safe. You are putting your horse at much more risk by not using these wormers on a regular basis. Cushings has nothing to do with a "broken down immune system", vaccinating, deworming, or feeding processed feeds. As we tend to see it more in some breeds than others, I suspect that genetics has some role. It is a complex endocrine problem though and many factors could be involved. If you ever wonder if your horse needs vaccinating or deworming, just visit a developing country sometime. Steve Steve White, DVM Sport Horse Vet. Service Gretna, NE A strange stillness dwells in the eye of the horse, a composure that appears to regard the world from a measured distance... It is a gaze from the depths of a dream... - Hans-Heinrich Isenbart
RE: Founder, and what I have found to work
This message is from: "Frederick J. Pack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> All Mail is scanned in AND out by Norton Anti-virus. Fred and Lois Pack Pack's Peak Stables Wilkeson, Washington 98396 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/3158 I downloaded some case files in PDF format. If you are interested, please e-mail me privately and I'll send them. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] either will get to me. Fred
Re: Founder rare in Fjords?
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Alex I may be late in answering your founder questions as I plow through over four hundred emails during my vacation. Friends of mine foundered their lovely fjord by giving too much supplements and enjoying his super fat condition. It came to a head during the hot grass season in the spring and early summer. He is now useless and they must restrict his grazing every day for life. My fjord is in their keeping and I am a bit nervous as I was told he is "pretty fat." They will be bringing him home tomorrow so he will be a hungry guy for awhile as I trim him down. He has very hard small hoofs which to me is an invitation to founder. I have my fingers crossed. Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
RE: Founder rare in Fjords?
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> My vet told me that one of the (probably) two other Fjords in Sonoma County foundered and had to be put down. She had been on pasture for years, but I think the El Nino winter caused LOTS of founders in the spring...just really lush, hot grass. Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Founder rare in Fjords?
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Look through the archives: There are 177 matches for the word "founder" http://www.eScribe.com/pets/fjordhorse/ "user name" is "fjordhorse", password is "fjords_rule" Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, with light rain showers and 60 F degrees. > I am wondering what you various >people have experienced. Are Fjords "immune" or >"resistant to" founder? I am wondering. > Cheers, > Alex > > > Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Founder rare in Fjords?
This message is from: "Dagrun Aarsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Alex, I have the same experience from Norway - to date I haven't known a fjord that foundered (but some other ponies, yes) - even though I am sure it happens sometimes. But from what I read here on the list it is a real problem here in the US. Dagrun, San Jose, CA
Re: founder
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mary, I wonder if they all should be "seeded". Perhaps it is a gut problem where we somehow kill off what is needed to keep a balance there. Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: founder
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Dagrun Aarsten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am following the founder discussion with big > interest. I might be wrong, > but it seems to be more of a problem here in the US > than back in Norway. > The cases of founder I have come across in Norway > have all been the case of > "overfed, undertrained" horses. With a few > exceptions (e.g. switching to a > different kind of hay). > > In Norway, most horses are kept in a stall in winter > (with daily turnout) > and they usually get some grain in addition to hay. , some horses don't > get worked but it's still very rare to feed just > hay. Probably our hay is > poorer in nutrition than the hay you get around > here? > > Most horses go directly from their stall-boarding to > their pasture paradise > in summer. > I've seen many cases of just letting the horse out > on green pasture in early > summer and all went well. > > I guess another difference is that our "pastures" > are usually more like big > wild areas, with natural grass and plants, hills, > woods and rivers, and they > do have to walk around quite a bit to fill > themselves up Possibly we are getting somewhere on this 'founder thing' now!! I had not thought about it before reading Dagrun's post, but.Our old mare, Line, came from Norway - with a five year stopover on open range in Canada. Our 'pastures' are very similar to what she had in Norway - basically 'wild' areas where she has to move around a lot to fill herself up. We keep our horses in stalls with turnouts in the winter - feeding them local grass hay and a little grain/vitamins - and they have access to the 'early spring' grass and subsequent 'slim pickins' in the summer. Line has never been a problem with founder. Sure, she gets fat in the late summer, but it's all gone by spring. The only time she ever came close to founder was when we first had her. She had been trailered a LONG way in three days - with time out of the trailer at night - and was 'tender footed' when we got home(also was about 200 pounds overweight). She recovered quickly from her 'tender feet', and began to lose weight. The problem was, she didn't STOP losing weight!! Her gut was incapable of digesting the grass we had here - which was much different than the sparse grass she was used to. Our vet 'seeded' her with enzymes for a few days and all went well. She has since been free of any symptoms of founder - no matter what her weight. I cannot say the same for the "North American" mares we have had. All have been prone to founder and once foundered have been unable to tolerate grain or clover hays. All our horses have been kept under the same routine as Line, but developed problems if not carefully managed, except, of course, for young, growing stock. Interesting, no? Mary = Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com
Re: founder
This message is from: "Dagrun Aarsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everyone, I am following the founder discussion with big interest. I might be wrong, but it seems to be more of a problem here in the US than back in Norway. I "converted" to fjords only a few years ago but there were plenty of them around when I grew up. Believe it or not, I never heard of a fjord that foundered in Norway. I am sure it happens, but it hasn't happened to the fjord owners I know...so far. So I'm going to throw out some theories of my own that you can object to :-) The cases of founder I have come across in Norway have all been the case of "overfed, undertrained" horses. With a few exceptions (e.g. switching to a different kind of hay). In Norway, most horses are kept in a stall in winter (with daily turnout) and they usually get some grain in addition to hay. Most horses get an hour or two of daily exercise and are fairly fit. Then again, some horses don't get worked but it's still very rare to feed just hay. Probably our hay is poorer in nutrition than the hay you get around here? I know alfalfa is, but maybe even the grass hay? Most horses go directly from their stall-boarding to their pasture paradise in summer. Most owners will do what they can to get their digestive system used to the grass - short turnouts on grass, or hand-grazing an hour a day if that's the only option. Then they go out on pasture with their friends and eat all the grass they want for the next three-four months! In the fall they might get some hay if there is too little grass left. Horses that are used actively in summer get grain/pellets in addition to the grass. I've seen many cases of just letting the horse out on green pasture in early summer and all went well. For the first five years of my "horse-life" this was normal to me and I had never even heard of founder. (Then a friend of mine's New Forest pony came back to her after he had been leased out for a time and he was extremely overweight with overgrown hooves. He foundered and was put down, poor thing.) I guess another difference is that our "pastures" are usually more like big wild areas, with natural grass and plants, hills, woods and rivers, and they do have to walk around quite a bit to fill themselves up. But in early summer it is incredibly rich and green, and it's a miracle that it goes well almost every time. Well I didn't really come up with any theories after all. But, if the grass is much richer many places here in the US than in Norway, and the fjord's digestive system is adapted to the Norwegian "poorer" grass and hay, then it makes sense that founder in fjords occurs more often here than in Norway? Does it often happen even to fit, working fjords, too? I will ask more fjord people about founder next time I go back to Norway...now I'm getting really curious. Dagrun
Re: founder
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/16/2002 5:50:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I have a saying from one of > my older vets that he's never met a pony who hasn't foundered or won't in > the > future. Just had to put my two cents in on this, as we just happened to have had 2 different Shetlands who never foundered in their whole lives. One lived to be just two months shy of 40 years and the other died in his mid thirties. Amy Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords Redmond, OR Fjord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: founder
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Janet, sorry to hear that your pony foundered. I have a saying from one of my older vets that he's never met a pony who hasn't foundered or won't in the future. We even had a case of mechanical founder where a pony mare foundered from the stress of carrying too heavy a rider up and down hills. Admit that one was a new one on me and she didn't seem to mind the weight. Another lesson learned and filed away. Any way given access to a running stream I like standing them in it for as long as possible several times a day. If that isn't possible we use buckets and stick all four in and run the hose in them keeping the water as cold as possible. We hand walk on soft ground such as a sand ring several times a day. I have seen vets pack feet for this but never done that one. I like using MSM twice a day added to a little grain, most will ignore it and eat it, also oral bute or the new buteless bute which has Devil's Claw in it and is easier on the stomach. The MSM seems to help blood flow and inflamation. My understanding is during the founder process histimines are released and if you are in time you can use antihistimines to stop the process. I've never managed the in time part so always ended up treating it. After all is healed we trim and pull the toes back as far as possible, this changes the breakover slightly and seems to make most comfortable and usable without shoes. Hope that helps and really with over 30 plus years caring for all ages and sizes of equines I've only had one who ended up not usable and that was after many times of founder. Good luck, Robyn in MD
Re: founder
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Pat this horse of mine is too sensitive and will only tolerate Vit C added and lixotinic in his grain. I have to threaten him and coerce to get him to accept his Tri histamine hidden in lixotinic. Believe me I have tried it all. Whereas he will not even notice a shot in the rump so whenever possible thats where it goes. Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: founder
This message is from: "Glen L. Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jean: I also had problems giving bute until I started using the powdered form. I would mix it with warm molasses and then put it in a bran mash or small amount of grain and feed before I did the regular feeding. Pat - Original Message - From: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 6:08 PM Subject: Re: founder > This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Janet having just been through a three month period of not knowing if > founder or trim was to blame I can understand your dilemma. Mine turned out > to be a very bad and short trim and then bruising to the sole. > > Re the coffin bone, I was also concerned about this but I think a "light" > case is more a warning than a problem for the coffin bone. > > The newest trend seems to be to excursive the horse but they do not seem to > have enough proof that is the best way. > > I gave bute twice a day in fairly large quantities and no problems occurred, > except my patience and bruises from administering to a huge horse who can > put his nose almost ten feet in the air!! Good luck Jean > > > > > Jean Walters Gayle > [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" > Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] > http://users.techline.com/jgayle > Send $20 > Three Horses Press > PO Box 104 > Montesano, WA 98563
Re: founder
This message is from: "Bossmare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In regards to various treatments for founder in recent years my vets have given DMSO, gallons of it dripped via IV. This works as both an anti-inflammatory and pain reliever. Reducing inflammation is essential to prevent or reduce damage to the feet. As for exercise I personally believe that the first couple of days should be spent in a deeply bedded stall. Many times the horse will move very little. When I see some voluntary exercise in the stall I let the horse out onto soft ground, ideally sand. I do not believe in forced exercise at all. The idea behind no exercise is to prevent damage to the lamina in the feet leading to more separation and rotation. However I think it needs to be balanced with the need for the rest of the horse to get some exercise and not feel isolated. Wet sand is ideal as it supports the foot and my horses always showed signs of relief when out in wet sand. As far as bedding goes I have found Woody Pet (a pelleted wood product sold for bedding purposes) is ideal. It pours out as hard pellets but if hosed will break down into a sand-like consistency. It is very cushiony in the stall, much better than shavings or straw. It should be remembered that laminitis/founder is the end result of a digestive upset or other trigger. It is essentially a circulatory problem. Finally I believe all "easy keepers" should be tested for thyroid and insulin levels. I have it done at the time of yearly vaccinations as a matter of course. That way a person can keep track year to year of any changes and adjust diets or put on medication if necessary. Not to disparage other areas of the country, or the globe, but a lot of success with veterinary care depends on what's available. I happen to live in an area of up-to-date progressive equine specialists. My previous vet was a cow and pig man with very simplistic ideas about equine medicine (actually admitted once he didn't like horses). People on other boards concerned with laminitis complain about the difficulty in getting appropriate and modern care from their veterinarians and their farriers and sometimes the more rural the area the greater the difficulty. Re: length of time for recoverythat can range from a month to a year. The mare that had the worst acute case in October is now sound in February. The other mare I had who did not seem as severe took a year before the lameness went away. Neither mare suffered abscesses but this can be worse than the founder if they get entrenched and cause long term infection. The mare I had to put down (mother of the young mare) suffered chronic abscesses that eventually destroyed her coffin bone. She was affected for 6 years. Lois in New Jersey where there are *some* advantages despite our image and the horse is the state animal. - Original Message - From: "Janet McNally" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:18 PM Subject: founder > So now I have some questions. she is still standing, has been examined by a vet, and is now being treated with oral bute and cold water on the feet (all four are affected). She is not severly lame, but definitely tender, warm, with a detectable pulse. Her feet are trimmed. Someone mentioned that it was good to walk the horse, but my vet said to give her complete stall rest on soft bedding. Which is best? Besides feeding her coarse grass hay, are there other feeds or treatments that help reduce inflamation? Assuming the coffin bone does not rotate (I am > still hopeful), how long will it take before she is ridable again? > > Why is bicarb not used to treat accute laminitis in horses? I am familiar with ruminants, and when a ruminant over consumes energy rich feeds, sodium bicarb (baking soda) is very theraputic in correcting the pH imbalance in the rumen. I realize the horse does not have a rumen, but is not the process of laminitis similar? > > Janet
Re: founder
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Janet having just been through a three month period of not knowing if founder or trim was to blame I can understand your dilemma. Mine turned out to be a very bad and short trim and then bruising to the sole. Re the coffin bone, I was also concerned about this but I think a "light" case is more a warning than a problem for the coffin bone. The newest trend seems to be to excursive the horse but they do not seem to have enough proof that is the best way. I gave bute twice a day in fairly large quantities and no problems occurred, except my patience and bruises from administering to a huge horse who can put his nose almost ten feet in the air!! Good luck Jean Jean Walters Gayle [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 To 1949 ] http://users.techline.com/jgayle Send $20 Three Horses Press PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: founder
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >So now I have some questions. she is still standing, has been examined by >a vet, and is now being treated with oral bute and cold water on the feet >(all four are affected). She is not severly lame, but definitely tender, >warm, with a detectable pulse. Her feet are trimmed. Someone mentioned >that it was good to walk the horse, but my vet said to give her complete >stall rest on soft bedding. Which is best? Also in the article on laminitis in this months' HORSE JOURNAl was the staement: "Time honored, common-sense treatment such as cooling hot feet, keeping the horse on a soft deep surface and not forcing a lame horse to walk still apply." An "old" remedy, BTW was giving them Epsom salts...turns out that that is Magnesium Sulfate! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: founder
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Feed her magnesium! According to the HORSE JOURNAL, The first reference to magnesium for laminitis was actually as an emergency first aid measure in acute laminitis. Magnesium administration has been shown to have potent vasodilation effects, opening up peripheral blood vessels. It is safe and virtually free of side effects. Seeing that alfalfa is high in clacium, it would make sense that more magnesium would be needed. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, +2 F with some snowflakes >The discussion on founder is timely for me. I am experiencing my first case of founder in a (non-fjord) drafty type pony of unknown heritage. Yes she is chunky, but not cresty necked. I am kicking myself for how it occured... I had just purchased a new load of round bales. This hay was a nice mix of alfalfa and grass, and if you take the bale as a whole, there was not too much alfalfa to do any damage. What I did not count on was the ability for this pony to 'mine' just the alfalfa leaves out of the bale. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: founder, feeding, horses in cold climate...
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) Great work, Anneli >This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I would say fjords founder very easily. And think about it - for hundreds >of years this breed have been forced to live on very little food and to >manage on fodder like straw, fish bone and heather. The Danish writer >Ingrid Skjoeth writes: > Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
Re: founder, feeding, horses in cold climate...
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gunthar is working 1 hour at least 4 days a week. Does it on 3 to 4 flakes of high quality grass hay a day (probably 20 lbs) and is holding his weight well. He is also developing the most gorgeous muscles on this diet. I've been reluctant to feed him grain because, although he is a drafty Fjord, he is the "hottest" Fjorrd I have ever encountered. No therapy horse here!. >It's amazing how little food is needed to keep a fjord in good shape! When >I moved my 6 yo gelding to another barn 3 weeks ago, the barn-owner (who >had a fjord herself once upon a time...) said: "My good, I've forgotten how >little they eat! He doesn't eat much more than the shetland!". Cider's diet >is: 10-12 pounds of hay (low in nutrition & protein), 4 pounds of haylage >(good n & p), 0,5 pound crushed oats/barley mix (75% oats, 25% barley), 0,2 >litres of molasses, minerals and salt every day. On this diet he is in good >shape. > >He is worked 45 mins - 1 hour 5 days/week (dressage, trail, longeing). I'm >going to increase his training . . I guess I have to increase the grain >once we've started to work more. Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Founder
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >information about red raspberry leaf. Supposedly it is a great thing to give >broodmares, it helps tone their uterus, helps them get pregnant, stay >pregnant, and supposedly would help prevent another retained placenta. Have >you heard anything about this? I've since heard of several people who swear >by this stuff. First I heard of it for horses, but I'll vouch for its value in dogs. We use it on every pregnant bitch since we had several bitches with whelping problems a few years ago. One of them had a c-section, and a year later, on raspberry leaf diet, delivered naturally. Our vet was impressed. (It works for people, too.) Barbara Lyn
Re: Founder
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 98-09-18 03:09:18 EDT, you write: << Also, exercise is good too. Put that horse to work! Please don't anyone think I'm condemning or yelling at you, but if scaring you will keep you and your horse from going through this pain, I will gladly scare you. >> Brian that WAS a scary, enlightening post. We bought one of our mares pregnant and overweight. We worked like the devil to get the arena put up on our new property so she could be exercised and turned out in a "dry lot" a month before she had the baby. Didn't work out, but we did cut her feed back, and tried to get as much exercise as possible. She was still pretty hefty and not back in shape when she delivered. Had a really sticky retained placenta. The vet worked about two and a half hours to gently flush that thing loose (she foaled at 4:35 a.m. and the placenta was finally out by 12:30 p.m.). Needed double doses of antibiotics (oral and injectable) and flushing for 4 days after. Thank god there was no infection. As soon as we knew she was okay (a week after delivery) I was out there riding her. The baby is a month old today, and I cantered the mare for the first time yesterday. We've been on a serious exercise program for the last three weeks. She is getting toned, but we still have a long way to go. I knew I had a perfect candidate for founder, and it is scary. Especially the way you describe it. Interestingly, (this doesn't have much to do with founder, but goes along with this particular mare's problems) when I got on the AOL foaling message board and explained what had happened to this mare, somebody emailed back to me information about red raspberry leaf. Supposedly it is a great thing to give broodmares, it helps tone their uterus, helps them get pregnant, stay pregnant, and supposedly would help prevent another retained placenta. Have you heard anything about this? I've since heard of several people who swear by this stuff. Pamela
