Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
Simple reasons... While I'm in the minority by being a Mac user I find that Google's Gmail, perhaps one of the larger and more frequently used AJAX apps out there right now, has been around for more than two years and yet the developers of that application haven't gotten it to support history in my browser (Safari) - this is a problem already addressed in Flex, and Flash for that matter (the original Pet Store RIA sample app supported browser history). While it's still not regarded as perfect on Flash, AJAX has major accessibility problems (http://www.sitepoint.com/article/ajax-screenreaders-work). There's some AJAX on mobile devices, but Adobe is planning to have Flex work on mobiles, advertisements for a Flex mobile product manager have proved that. Andrew On 5/26/06, jwc_wensan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > To all: > > Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to > thinking. > > I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. > > Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a > better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with > Flex. I prefer Flex. > > However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, > article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's > everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". > > I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen > many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also > realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is > developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care > what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not. > > In the end it is the application not the engine. > > There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and > Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has > less the 5% of the market. > > Can Adobe accept 5% market share? > > You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases > Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or > the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and > I say will use their product. > > What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to > convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially > when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. > > AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. > They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as > their own. > > My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you > think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far > behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If > you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start > now. > > To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry > has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes > too late. > > From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last > year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers > to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your > commitment to us. > > Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as > a whole about the value of Flex. > > Again, just my opinion. > > Sincerely, > > Jack > > > > > > > -- > Flexcoders Mailing List > FAQ: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > Search Archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > Web site design development Computer software development Software design > and development > Macromedia flex Software development best practice > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > -- --- Andrew Muller http://www.rebelspirit.com.au -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
RE: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
Uncle Sam From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly @ Dekayd Media Inc. Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:58 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex As a final note, my employer builds applications for the world’s largest customer. Fannie Mae? -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
> say ones that replicate the Windows look and feel - so that people would be drawn to the interface they know, know how to use, and prefer (vs. HTML) - even while giving the developers behind the scenes a much richer set of tools for implementation. Check this out... http://www.flex2components.com/f2cblog/2006/05/25/flex2-teoapplicationdesktop/ Desktop Flex... ala Flex's peanut butter sandwich Peace, MikeOn 5/25/06, Mark Wales <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Imagine a world where desktop applications and Web applications look and feel the same AND work together seamlessly, then you are on a path that might lead to success. Microsoft is working on doing exactly this - it is just taking them years to deliver on it. AJAX is a place holder because people are bored with the Web the way it currently works. In the delay is Adobe's opportunity and in the boredom is Adobe's challenge. Flex will not be differentiated in the marketplace by building exclusively Web applications that are not much better/different than what you can easily do with Java - especially in light of Google's most recent announcement (http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/). The "killer apps" for Flex will be the ones that don't look and feel any different than people are used to - but do mix graphics, multimedia, drag-and-drop, etc. with all the traditional UI components in ways that are nearly impossible for AJAX to do without lots of customization. As strange as it may sound, one technique would be to use a fixed set of style guidelines - say ones that replicate the Windows look and feel - so that people would be drawn to the interface they know, know how to use, and prefer (vs. HTML) - even while giving the developers behind the scenes a much richer set of tools for implementation. Right now, people see the AJAX-enabled Web application that they recognize as HTML - and then they see a Flex application that looks a little unfamiliar. Let's make it real simple. The AJAX bridge is half of that equation - now give us the set of style settings that are indistinguishable from the Windows equivalent. If people have to choose between a Windows-equivalent application and an HTML one, the choice will be simple. The technology, to the user, is irrelevant. Next, give us applications that work seamlessly between the desktop and the Web. I want interoperability (drag-and-drop and who knows what else) between my Flex-based Web application and my Flex-based desktop applications. I know, SECURITY. Get over it. It's going to happen, IT IS JUST A MATTER OF WHO GETS THERE FIRST. Adobe has all the tools to make this work and really only lacks a loud and cohesive strategy to make it happen. Given that the competition is Microsoft and Google, Adobe really needs a running head start if they want to win. As for garnering public attention, make a really simple and FREE tool that combines, say, Breeze-like collaboration features with a small but extensible suite of Flex applications that do MS Office-like things. Call it a Beta and let it out with the viral marketing approach of Gmail. -Mark On 5/25/06, jwc_wensan <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: To all: Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to thinking. I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex. However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not. In the end it is the application not the engine. There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market. Can Adobe accept 5% market share? You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product. What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own. My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be lef
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
Stacy Young wrote: > We should also be aware of the impact of flash video. Its use is skyrocketing right now ...and anywhere you have the flash player for video you open a door to flex technologies. Good point... we'll see audiences pull new Flex capabilities rapidly into their browsers, even if only through the video world. That's part of what got Flash 8 to 70% consumer viewability in its first half year, and adoption of Flash Video has sort of exploded since then. At the Ajax Experience conference in San Francisco this month, several speakers said that their audiences will contain significant IE6 presence for a very long time to come -- only a minority have switched browsers on their current machines, and many computers will have to be replaced before the eventual Vista is adopted. _javascript_ audience advancement will likely, over the next few years, be tied to hardware replacement rates. Two very different speeds of evolution here jd -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
Imagine a world where desktop applications and Web applications look and feel the same AND work together seamlessly, then you are on a path that might lead to success. Microsoft is working on doing exactly this - it is just taking them years to deliver on it. AJAX is a place holder because people are bored with the Web the way it currently works. In the delay is Adobe's opportunity and in the boredom is Adobe's challenge. Flex will not be differentiated in the marketplace by building exclusively Web applications that are not much better/different than what you can easily do with Java - especially in light of Google's most recent announcement (http://code.google.com/webtoolkit/). The "killer apps" for Flex will be the ones that don't look and feel any different than people are used to - but do mix graphics, multimedia, drag-and-drop, etc. with all the traditional UI components in ways that are nearly impossible for AJAX to do without lots of customization. As strange as it may sound, one technique would be to use a fixed set of style guidelines - say ones that replicate the Windows look and feel - so that people would be drawn to the interface they know, know how to use, and prefer (vs. HTML) - even while giving the developers behind the scenes a much richer set of tools for implementation. Right now, people see the AJAX-enabled Web application that they recognize as HTML - and then they see a Flex application that looks a little unfamiliar. Let's make it real simple. The AJAX bridge is half of that equation - now give us the set of style settings that are indistinguishable from the Windows equivalent. If people have to choose between a Windows-equivalent application and an HTML one, the choice will be simple. The technology, to the user, is irrelevant. Next, give us applications that work seamlessly between the desktop and the Web. I want interoperability (drag-and-drop and who knows what else) between my Flex-based Web application and my Flex-based desktop applications. I know, SECURITY. Get over it. It's going to happen, IT IS JUST A MATTER OF WHO GETS THERE FIRST. Adobe has all the tools to make this work and really only lacks a loud and cohesive strategy to make it happen. Given that the competition is Microsoft and Google, Adobe really needs a running head start if they want to win. As for garnering public attention, make a really simple and FREE tool that combines, say, Breeze-like collaboration features with a small but extensible suite of Flex applications that do MS Office-like things. Call it a Beta and let it out with the viral marketing approach of Gmail. -Mark On 5/25/06, jwc_wensan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To all: Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to thinking. I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex. However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not. In the end it is the application not the engine. There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market. Can Adobe accept 5% market share? You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product. What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own. My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start now. To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes too late. >From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your
RE: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
As a final note, my employer builds applications for the world’s largest customer. Fannie Mae? -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
> Third, I don't remember where it comes from but anyway there's a stateful that gets me thinking in much deeper than all these "A versus B" flame wars: I want to say one thing and I am out. I feel compelled to reply to threads like this becasue of some reasons; 1) Defending your home is a natural human tendency 2) There will always be wars against side A and side B(look to history to back me up on this) 3) When you are put in a position to 'defend' something, you either defend it or go to side B 4) When some thought implies 'takeover' 5) When side B misrepresents side A 6) When side A pays the bills The irony of idealism is it's ideal and will never fit into the Earth zone. Inventors always like to take it on the head, they always have their noses where they shouldn't be and always are alone while leading there idealism. So, on this list you will find a lot of humans that want to defend what they think can make a differnece in the future. Ajax is just another side in life and when people(say from the "AJAX" camp) start to call Flex2 dead before the baby is born, we better hope there are people with silver tounges around to stand up and advocate Flex on all levels of human interaction. Be it, a nice fireside chat or ranting over a mailing list. It's natural selection at it's best! Peace, MikeOn 5/25/06, Michael Klishin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: jwc_wensan wrote: > To all: > > Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to > thinking. First off, I'm a subscriber of JDJ, AJAX Developers Journal, Codeproject, I'm often to EclipseZone and JavaLobby, and I see Adobe Flex ads EVERYWHERE over the Web. Second, even straight-minded part of web developers community realized benefits of Flex and agrees that it's better to use both Flex and AJAX because each of two has own advantages. Third, I don't remember where it comes from but anyway there's a stateful that gets me thinking in much deeper than all these "A versus B" flame wars: "One who thinks that he can accomplish any task using just one tool is a ...". Correct. This one is a fool. P.S. Embrace collaboration. Regards. -- Michael "Antares" Klishin, http://www.novemberain.com | mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- What goes up, does come down. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
jwc_wensan wrote: > To all: > > Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to > thinking. First off, I'm a subscriber of JDJ, AJAX Developers Journal, Codeproject, I'm often to EclipseZone and JavaLobby, and I see Adobe Flex ads EVERYWHERE over the Web. Second, even straight-minded part of web developers community realized benefits of Flex and agrees that it's better to use both Flex and AJAX because each of two has own advantages. Third, I don't remember where it comes from but anyway there's a stateful that gets me thinking in much deeper than all these "A versus B" flame wars: "One who thinks that he can accomplish any task using just one tool is a ...". Correct. This one is a fool. P.S. Embrace collaboration. Regards. -- Michael "Antares" Klishin, http://www.novemberain.com | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
I'm usually only a passive participant in this mailing list but I felt like replying to this. I as a developer am not free to choose a development platform in our company. I was actually hired because the company was searching for developers who knew stuff about Coldfusion (later moved to flex). When a company wants to do a project they usually study different roads depending on meeting their requirements, what it will cost, how long it will take. They don't go around the employment offices interviewing candidates and ask them what they would like to program in! (exagerating, I know) I am there to consult/propose possible strategies in the first stage. They usually pick the ones they are familiar with, they are most confident about. After this I can start implementing. With Flex1.5 there was the big cost tag on the whole infrastructure. Having to buy the server was already a big investment, spending months of development time to a rather new approach to RIA's was another horde that wasn't easy to take. Inhouse developers still need to convince the company why to go for specific new technology. The more it's know to them, the easier it can be to convince them of the benefits. I myself am confronted with the AJAX hype in and outside my office. If they want a fancy feature on a website of ours the first thing they come up with is 'can it be done in AJAX?' No one asks if it can be done with Flex, let alone they would ask for a Flex2 implementation. I agree with the first poster. It's time for Adobe to start promoting Flex so that people know that there is something else then AJAX for RIA implementations and with people I don't mean only developers. For me this was already a big problem with Flex1.5 (if it weren't for our personal contacts with the MM people at the time for Coldfusion, we would never have started with Flex projects) I don't think they can afford this again with Flex2... B. Van: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com namens Carlos Rovira Verzonden: do 25/05/2006 18:30 Aan: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Onderwerp: Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex As Michael points, AJAX is the client technology this year, wait until Flex 2 ships and people start knowing what they can do it. It will cost at least a a year or even a bit more that people could see that Flex is another world. But finaly, you as a developer, wants to do your job easily...and as you say your client should (most of the times) know if is Flex, VB or HTML...you want to be free as you do your work, isn't it? 2006/5/25, Michael Schmalle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Hi, my 0.02 cents. When you talk about Ajax verses Flex. I think of one thing, Object Oriented Programming. This debate, Ajax vs. Flex, wait one more year and see the code libraries that are abstract and reusable within 2 seconds of loading them on your computer. See, OOP lends itself well to the "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" and then all the sudden your at rocket power. Take the Adobe flex2 framewrok and give it a trigger, I could out perform most that take Ajax and try to figure out the rats nest that comes with all the browsers, the half ass code libraries, etc. OOP is still new and well, if you know what it is and how powerful it can speed up an entire community of developers, Ajax is then going to have to play catch up. Flex2 isn't even public yet, so all this grandious, bs that the 'News' likes to fill your head with means nothing to a real Flex2 developer like myself. As far a Microsoft... who cares! They have been leading for years and will still lead as long as there bank accounts can still pay court battles. There is never just one leader in this world, common, do your homework. Peace, Mike On 5/25/06, jwc_wensan < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: To all: Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to thinking. I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex. However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app i
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
> I have done my homework. Figure of speech. :) Not aimed at you. > All I am saying, just because you have a better "mousetrap" doesn't mean that the industry will accept it at face value. I agree but, none of the press release journalists are talking to me. I have some pretty hefty component sets comming out that include workspace xml save/load, automated desktop multi-application handling, cross application dnd and a score of components that make Ajax look like an infants toy rattle. Yes, I have an ego but, that is becasue I kow what I am developing for release in 3 months. The point is, this debate dosn't mean anything untill the 'industry' gets to see REAL non-green Flex2 applications being implemented and used. I said this once before, "The proof is in the pudding". Wait a year, I am humble enough to admit when I am wrong also... If Adobe is out of a job in 2 years, I guess I will do something else that keeps the food on the table! :) Peace, Mike On 5/25/06, Jack W. Caldwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Michael: I do not disagree from a technical standpoint and I have done my homework. I am referring to the industry's perspective. I am also looking at this from a business and marketing view. If you don't think that hype can make or break a product, just look at how U.S. politics PR can "shape" a candidate. All I am saying, just because you have a better "mousetrap" doesn't mean that the industry will accept it at face value. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael SchmalleSent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:11 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex Hi,my 0.02 cents.When you talk about Ajax verses Flex. I think of one thing, Object Oriented Programming. This debate, Ajax vs. Flex, wait one more year and see the code libraries that are abstract and reusable within 2 seconds of loading them on your computer.See, OOP lends itself well to the "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" and then all the sudden your at rocket power. Take the Adobe flex2 framewrok and give it a trigger, I could out perform most that take Ajax and try to figure out the rats nest that comes with all the browsers, the half ass code libraries, etc.OOP is still new and well, if you know what it is and how powerful it can speed up an entire community of developers, Ajax is then going to have to play catch up.Flex2 isn't even public yet, so all this grandious, bs that the 'News' likes to fill your head with means nothing to a real Flex2 developer like myself.As far a Microsoft... who cares! They have been leading for years and will still lead as long as there bank accounts can still pay court battles. There is never just one leader in this world, common, do your homework.Peace, Mike On 5/25/06, jwc_wensan <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: To all:Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me tothinking.I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents.Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex.However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention".I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not.In the end it is the application not the engine.There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market.Can Adobe accept 5% market share?You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product.What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that.AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own.My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it
RE: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
Personally I’m not expecting flex to overcome ajax in terms of market share for one simple reason. Ajax can accommodate a large proportion of developers needs. That’s not a bad thing, just a reality. Not everyone will need the kind of firepower that flex can deliver. I do believe though that we’ll see solid penetration into the enterprise scene. We should also be aware of the impact of flash video. Its use is skyrocketing right now …and anywhere you have the flash player for video you open a door to flex technologies. With this in mind I’m thinking the second segment we’ll see penetration is in public commerce sites. Look at Nike for example, heavy reliance on flash …and now they’re moving into application development with the new deal with Apple and the ipod. Adoption here may take some time as flash player penetration is a factor. Apple may have 5% share but if you purchased stock a few years back you’d be doing quite well today. Secondly there’s plenty of room for them to grow …one could argue that’s a safer position then having to defend an already existing empire. Lastly, growth of Ajax will have a residual positive effect for flex technologies as it validates the idea that we need to make more experience-centric applications. Cheers, Stace From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jwc_wensan Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:47 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex To all: Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to thinking. I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex. However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not. In the end it is the application not the engine. There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market. Can Adobe accept 5% market share? You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product. What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own. My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start now. To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes too late. >From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your commitment to us. Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as a whole about the value of Flex. Again, just my opinion. Sincerely, Jack AVIS IMPORTANT WARNING Ce message électronique et ses pièces jointes peuvent contenir des renseignements confidentiels, exclusifs ou légalement privilégiés destinés au seul usage du destinataire visé. L'expéditeur original ne renonce à aucun privilège ou à aucun autre droit si le présent message a été transmis involontairement ou s'il est retransmis sans son autorisation. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé du présent message ou si vous l'avez reçu par erreur, veuillez cesser immédiatement de le lire et le supprimer, ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes, de votre système. La lecture, la distribution, la copie ou tout autre usage du présent message ou de ses pièces jointes par des personnes autres que le destinataire visé ne sont pas autorisés et pourraient être illégaux. Si vous avez reçu ce courrier électronique par erreur, veuillez en aviser l'expéditeur. This electronic message and its attachments may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information, which is solely for the use of th
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
My 2 cents as well.. We have been doing AJAX for 6 years - in the end we had pretty much what Flex 1.5 was - complete object-oriented environment with XHTML, custom tags, integrated webservices/java remoting, transparent dataservices, and do on We also had it up and running for 5 years at number of Fortune 1000 companies in the most demanding environments. Now we are switching to Flex. Two main reasons : Browser and _javascript_ 1. Incompatibilities in the browsers and need to support multiple browsers quickly kills any advanced controls - effort is unbelievable and easily accounts of 90% of the development time. 2. Robustness and performance of _javascript_: It is too slow and there is no machanism in the browser to insure the competeness of _javascript_ downloads. As a result, even the slightest problems on the network level require huge efforts on the framework level. It is all curable on the system level. For demanding applications we had to develop following system components outside the browser (just to support AJAX and business needed functionality missing in the browser) 1. reliable pluggable protocol on the top of HTTP(s) to support guaranteed delivery/caching of data and code 2. cached factories for _javascript_ to allow faster instantiation of client-side _javascript_ 3. print tempates enabler to allow full control of the printing environment without browser limitations. The list goes on and on Bottom line, serious AJAX apps require Flash Player equivalent. You can try to build it in _javascript_, but it is unrealistic. We tried to get browser makers adopt the forementioned enhancements, but they are pusing alternatives to AJAX of their own, so Flash seems the only option with enough market penetration. Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky - Original Message - From: jwc_wensan To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex To all:Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me tothinking.I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents.Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex.However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention".I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not.In the end it is the application not the engine.There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market.Can Adobe accept 5% market share?You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product.What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that.AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own.My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start now.To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes too late.>From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your commitment to us.Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as a whole about the value of Flex.Again, just my opinion.Sincerely,Jack -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
As Michael points, AJAX is the client technology this year, wait until Flex 2 ships and people start knowing what they can do it. It will cost at least a a year or even a bit more that people could see that Flex is another world. But finaly, you as a developer, wants to do your job easily...and as you say your client should (most of the times) know if is Flex, VB or HTML...you want to be free as you do your work, isn't it? 2006/5/25, Michael Schmalle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Hi, my 0.02 cents. When you talk about Ajax verses Flex. I think of one thing, Object Oriented Programming. This debate, Ajax vs. Flex, wait one more year and see the code libraries that are abstract and reusable within 2 seconds of loading them on your computer. See, OOP lends itself well to the "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" and then all the sudden your at rocket power. Take the Adobe flex2 framewrok and give it a trigger, I could out perform most that take Ajax and try to figure out the rats nest that comes with all the browsers, the half ass code libraries, etc. OOP is still new and well, if you know what it is and how powerful it can speed up an entire community of developers, Ajax is then going to have to play catch up. Flex2 isn't even public yet, so all this grandious, bs that the 'News' likes to fill your head with means nothing to a real Flex2 developer like myself. As far a Microsoft... who cares! They have been leading for years and will still lead as long as there bank accounts can still pay court battles. There is never just one leader in this world, common, do your homework. Peace, MikeOn 5/25/06, jwc_wensan < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To all: Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to thinking. I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex. However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not. In the end it is the application not the engine. There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market. Can Adobe accept 5% market share? You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product. What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own. My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start now. To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes too late. >From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your commitment to us. Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as a whole about the value of Flex. Again, just my opinion. Sincerely, Jack -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . -- What goes
RE: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
Michael: I do not disagree from a technical standpoint and I have done my homework. I am referring to the industry's perspective. I am also looking at this from a business and marketing view. If you don't think that hype can make or break a product, just look at how U.S. politics PR can "shape" a candidate. All I am saying, just because you have a better "mousetrap" doesn't mean that the industry will accept it at face value. Thanks, Jack From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael SchmalleSent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:11 AMTo: flexcoders@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex Hi,my 0.02 cents.When you talk about Ajax verses Flex. I think of one thing, Object Oriented Programming. This debate, Ajax vs. Flex, wait one more year and see the code libraries that are abstract and reusable within 2 seconds of loading them on your computer.See, OOP lends itself well to the "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" and then all the sudden your at rocket power. Take the Adobe flex2 framewrok and give it a trigger, I could out perform most that take Ajax and try to figure out the rats nest that comes with all the browsers, the half ass code libraries, etc.OOP is still new and well, if you know what it is and how powerful it can speed up an entire community of developers, Ajax is then going to have to play catch up.Flex2 isn't even public yet, so all this grandious, bs that the 'News' likes to fill your head with means nothing to a real Flex2 developer like myself.As far a Microsoft... who cares! They have been leading for years and will still lead as long as there bank accounts can still pay court battles. There is never just one leader in this world, common, do your homework.Peace, Mike On 5/25/06, jwc_wensan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To all:Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me tothinking.I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents.Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex.However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention".I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not.In the end it is the application not the engine.There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market.Can Adobe accept 5% market share?You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product.What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that.AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own.My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start now.To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes too late.From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your commitment to us.Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as a whole about the value of Flex.Again, just my opinion.Sincerely,Jack--Flexcoders Mailing ListFAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txtSearch Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PRO
RE: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
OK, here’s 2 more cents. My employer has a staff of very good Java developers who have been building leading-edge Web apps for years. Why did they hire yours truly – a humble Flash developer? Because they could not get the UI results they wanted with any other tool. Don’t get me wrong – they had built some very cool interfaces using Ajax and other tools. However, even these did not have all of the slick effects that they wanted, nor did they work as smoothly or reliably as could be desired. Moreover, the developers were sick of having to deal with differing browser implementations. They saw apps built by other shops that had the quality of UIs that they wanted – and all of these apps had Flash front ends. And when a Java shop decides to go with Flash UIs, Flex is the obvious choice. As a final note, my employer builds applications for the world’s largest customer. And this customer already has a significant investment in other Adobe / Macromedia technologies, such as ColdFusion. So it seems to me that Flex is here to stay. IMHO, once the new 2.0 builder gets into production, there will be no holding it down. Lots of other developers will love it as much as we do, and it will take off. Having said all of that, of course, it won’t hurt for Adobe to launch a major marketing and PR campaign. J Best, Jim From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jwc_wensan Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 11:47 AM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex To all: Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to thinking. I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex. However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not. In the end it is the application not the engine. There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market. Can Adobe accept 5% market share? You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product. What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own. My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start now. To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes too late. >From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your commitment to us. Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as a whole about the value of Flex. Again, just my opinion. Sincerely, Jack -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
> What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to > convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially > when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. I recently got into a discussion on this, well it really wasn't a discussion. I was asked to giv e input on Flex to a internal architecture team. THey had written a quick doc about RIA and using it on our customer facing apps in the future. The doc had several incorrect stetements about Flex/Flash RIA. One was 'Flash player is full of security holes'. comparing Flex to AJAX I told them that currently no company really is behind AJAX in the sense of SLAs and such. they quickly retorted that IBM Websphere supports it. Seeing as these folks live in a 'White Paper' world, I didn't bother to continue the 'discussion'. Look around the websphere info, yeah sure you can use AJAX with websphere, but are tools and support and debugging and such built into the IDE yet? Does websphere have its own prototype.js that they support when things go wrong at 3 AM? DK On 5/25/06, jwc_wensan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To all: > > Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to > thinking. > > I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. > > Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a > better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with > Flex. I prefer Flex. > > However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, > article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's > everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". > > I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen > many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also > realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is > developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care > what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not. > > In the end it is the application not the engine. > > There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and > Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has > less the 5% of the market. > > Can Adobe accept 5% market share? > > You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases > Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or > the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and > I say will use their product. > > What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to > convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially > when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. > > AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. > They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as > their own. > > My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you > think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far > behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If > you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start > now. > > To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry > has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes > too late. > > From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last > year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers > to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your > commitment to us. > > Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as > a whole about the value of Flex. > > Again, just my opinion. > > Sincerely, > > Jack > > > > > > > > -- > Flexcoders Mailing List > FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt > Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- Douglas Knudsen http://www.cubicleman.com this is my signature, like it? -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [flexcoders] AJAX versus Flex
Hi, my 0.02 cents. When you talk about Ajax verses Flex. I think of one thing, Object Oriented Programming. This debate, Ajax vs. Flex, wait one more year and see the code libraries that are abstract and reusable within 2 seconds of loading them on your computer. See, OOP lends itself well to the "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can" and then all the sudden your at rocket power. Take the Adobe flex2 framewrok and give it a trigger, I could out perform most that take Ajax and try to figure out the rats nest that comes with all the browsers, the half ass code libraries, etc. OOP is still new and well, if you know what it is and how powerful it can speed up an entire community of developers, Ajax is then going to have to play catch up. Flex2 isn't even public yet, so all this grandious, bs that the 'News' likes to fill your head with means nothing to a real Flex2 developer like myself. As far a Microsoft... who cares! They have been leading for years and will still lead as long as there bank accounts can still pay court battles. There is never just one leader in this world, common, do your homework. Peace, MikeOn 5/25/06, jwc_wensan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To all: Got this email today, http://ajax.sys-con.com/ and it got me to thinking. I may get blasted for this, but here goes . . . just my .0199 cents. Let me first say I believe 100% that the Flex platform is a better "mousetrap". I am currently developing applications with Flex. I prefer Flex. However, you can not open a software magazine, newsletter, journal, article, etc. that doesn't reference something about AJAX. It's everywhere. Adobe's Flex gets an "honorable mention". I have been in the software business for over 27 years. I have seen many companies come and go that had a better "mousetrap". I also realize that most end users do not care if a desktop app is developed with Visual C++ or Visual Basic. So why would they care what a RIA app is developed with. Probably not. In the end it is the application not the engine. There seems to be a parallel between PCs with Windows and Apple/Macs. Many believe that the Mac is better, but Apple/Mac has less the 5% of the market. Can Adobe accept 5% market share? You also can not under estimate the impact when Microsoft releases Atlas. And no Robert I don't want to hear about how you hate MS or the evil empire. Fact is, tens of thousands of developers will and I say will use their product. What this also does is make it more difficult for developers to convince management that the Flex product is better. Especially when all they hear is AJAX this and AJAX that. AJAX is getting all the hype. Right or wrong these are the facts. They have essentially taken over the RIA landscape and claimed it as their own. My point . . . . Adobe you need to step up to the plate. If you think you can wait, then by the time you start you will be too far behind. You will be left behind always playing catch-up. If you want to reach that 1 million developer goal, it needs to start now. To be better and say you are better is not enough. If the industry has already declared AJAX as the RIA industry leader then it becomes too late. >From a market perception, look how AJAX has evolved in the last year. Compare that to Adobe Flex. Adobe you are asking developers to make a commitment to you, well I think you need to increase your commitment to us. Now is the time to promote to the industry and the general public as a whole about the value of Flex. Again, just my opinion. Sincerely, Jack -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development Macromedia flex Software development best practice YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "flexcoders" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- What goes up, does come down. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com SPONSORED LINKS Web site design development Computer software development Software design and development
