Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear/Simulink/LabVIEW Interface

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi Andy,

I didn't see anyone else respond so I thought I'd give you some pointers.

The Matlab plugin seems to be part of Simulink's Aerospace blockset. I'm 
by no means an expert on Matlab, but I would think that it should come 
with the Matlab installer as an optional component to install... I could 
be wrong though.

Anyway, in case you can't get that working and are looking for 
alternative solutions, here's some C++ code that extracts data from 
Flightgear and would allow you to modify it to control the aircraft:

http://code.google.com/p/binarymillenium/source/browse/trunk/flightgear/?r=125#flightgear%2Ffgauto

The net_fdm.hxx and net_ctrls.hxx files are from Flightgear and define 
two data structures that can be sent and received by fgfs. In your 
program you can receive the FGNetCtrls structure, change the parameters 
you want to control, and send it back.

The following fgfs parameters will create the control sockets:
--native-ctrls=socket,in,10,127.0.0.1,5600,udp
--native-ctrls=socket,out,10,127.0.0.1,5700,udp

You will likely also need FDM data:
--native-fdm=socket,out,10,127.0.0.1,5500,udp

Also there is a Wiki page about creating a new custom protocol for 
interfacing to Flightgear that might be helpful:

http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Create_a_generic_protocol

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Vik

On 07/10/2012 04:16 AM, Andrew Tudor wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a thread here:
> http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=16853 where I
> was directed to contact this email with questions. First, let me
> explain my goal with FlightGear. I would like run FG and take
> real-time data from it. I do not want to provide my own model, I would
> like to use one already established (the P51D was suggested to me).
> The data I would like to get is position (x,y,z), orientation
> (pitch,yaw,roll) and control surface information (elevator, ailerons,
> throttle, rudder). Modifying the control surface data is also
> important. With that data inside Simulink I will feed that to LabView
> using the Simulation Interface Toolkit (SIT) provided by NI which will
> then be interfaced with our hardware. I have had a few questions and
> it might be better to ask here rather than the forums.
>
> - From what I understand control surfaces can be modified using this
> block: 
> http://www.mathworks.com/help/toolbox/aeroblks/packnet_fdmpacketforflightgear.html
> ?
> - How can I get position and orientation information? I can instead
> use the velocity of the aircraft with respect to the wind if that is
> available? In general I want a way to define a level flight path.
> - I have been trying to find these two blocks in Simulink:
>
> http://www.mathworks.com/help/toolbox/aeroblks/receivenet_ctrlpacketfromflightgear.html
> http://www.mathworks.com/help/toolbox/aeroblks/unpacknet_ctrlpacketfromflightgear.html
>
> but I can't find them. I have the other 4 blocks but not these. I
> initially was using 2.6.0 but noticed that the web page was referring
> to 2.0 so I switched versions with no success. I have been looking in:
> Simulink Library Browser>  Aerospace Blockset>  Animation>  Flight
> Simulator Interfaces.
>
> -Do you think it is possible in FG to get the variables I need? I am
> not worried about interfacing the programs once I can access the
> variable in Simulink (or for that matter LabView) that I need. This
> whole interfacing and project set up is new to me so any help you can
> give would be great. Please forward this to anyone you think can be of
> help.
>
> Thanks!
> Andy
>
>
> Andrew W. Tudor
> University of California, Los Angeles
> Graduate Student in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
> University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
> B.S. Aerospace Engineering
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim static friction?

[Viktor Radnai]

Well, I am giving it a shot, but it seems it won't be that easy. See my 
other (long) mail sent on this topic :)

Cheers,
Vik

On 07/06/2012 05:48 PM, Andy Ross wrote:
> On 07/05/2012 02:41 PM, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>> Thanks for that! So just to clarify -- this is a bug in Yasim code (or
>> more like a missing feature) and I'm welcome to fix it?:)
>
> I'm just an absentee hacker, so I can't say what is or isn't
> acceptable any more.  But it seems like a sane enhancement to me.
>
> But broadly yes: it's free software.  The whole point is to make it do
> what you want.
>
> Andy
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim static friction?

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi there,

The rest of this mail will just deal with the gear friction issue for now.

Having looked at Gear.cpp I think I can understand the issue a bit 
better. The method that calculates tire friction is Gear::calcFriction. 
It looks like this:

float Gear::calcFriction(float wgt, float v) //used on solid ground
{
 // How slow is stopped?  10 cm/second?
 const float STOP = 0.1f;
 const float iSTOP = 1.0f/STOP;
 v = Math::abs(v);
 if(v < STOP) return v*iSTOP * wgt * _sfric;
 else return wgt * _dfric;
}

Note the constant in there that marks the point where static friction 
starts to get used. Also note that the constant is multiplied by v, so 
at zero speed, there is zero friction. This is perfectly fine on water, 
but not on solid ground. It also explains what's happening -- the force 
of the wind pushing against the plane will meet with no resistance until 
it starts to equal v*iSTOP * wgt * _sfric and the plane will eventually 
roll with that constant speed.

The reality is that on solid ground the force caused by static friction 
will be equal to the force acting upon the wheel (the bearings 
actually), up to a threshold of Fmax, when the wheel/bearing assembly 
will unstick and start to rotate.

Right now it seems that to fix this, reality must be modelled in this 
respect. If I take Andy's suggestion and just try to clamp the static 
friction to an arbitary fixed value, then the force returned may or may 
not be larger than the force pushing against the wheel, and the result 
will be that the plane rocks with the (3 knot) wind while very slowly 
turning into the wind, while stopped on tarmac...

The question is, where do I get the force acting upon the wheel?
To try to figure that out, I had to look into Model.cpp where I ran into 
further difficulties:

 // The landing gear
 for(i=0; i<_gears.size(); i++) {
 float force[3], contact[3];
 Gear* g = (Gear*)_gears.get(i);

 g->calcForce(&_body, s, lv, lrot);
 g->getForce(force, contact);
 _body.addForce(contact, force);
 }

Here the forces created by fricion on all the gears are added up. So if 
I was to keep the model stationary without any jitter, the sum of the 
resistive forces from the gears must exactly equal the sum of the force 
acting upon the gears. This is out of scope of just modifying Gear.cpp 
and definitely out of my league for both the knowledge of C++ and the 
Flightgear codebase.

Could someone please help me with this? Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Vik



On 07/05/2012 09:34 PM, Andy Ross wrote:
> (Happened to be browsing in time to see a question)
>
> On 07/05/2012 06:21 AM, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>> I don't see any obvious properties to set to take the engine's
>> resistance to turning over, or the friction of the wheels into account
>> to stop these unrealistic things from happening. How should I go about
>> fixing them?
>
> That sounds right to me.  Aircraft parked in gentle winds weren't really
> part of the original test regime. :)
>
> For the gear thing, see Gear.cpp:450 or so, and look at clamping the
> static friction coefficient to some minimum value (probably tunable).
>
> For the engine, you can likewise add some fixed negative torque value
> near PistonEngine.cpp:214 to model internal resistance (currently the
> code only models output power).
>
> Andy
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim static friction?

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for that! So just to clarify -- this is a bug in Yasim code (or 
more like a missing feature) and I'm welcome to fix it? :)

Cheers,
Vik

On 07/05/2012 09:34 PM, Andy Ross wrote:
> (Happened to be browsing in time to see a question)
>
> On 07/05/2012 06:21 AM, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>> I don't see any obvious properties to set to take the engine's
>> resistance to turning over, or the friction of the wheels into account
>> to stop these unrealistic things from happening. How should I go about
>> fixing them?
>
> That sounds right to me.  Aircraft parked in gentle winds weren't really
> part of the original test regime. :)
>
> For the gear thing, see Gear.cpp:450 or so, and look at clamping the
> static friction coefficient to some minimum value (probably tunable).
>
> For the engine, you can likewise add some fixed negative torque value
> near PistonEngine.cpp:214 to model internal resistance (currently the
> code only models output power).
>
> Andy
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim static friction?

[Viktor Radnai]

The plane gets pushed either forward or backwards by the wind, depending 
on the wind direction. The prop seems to only get turned in the 
direction of normal rotation, even in a tailwind, which seems wrong to me.

But really the main issue for me is that this amount of wind should not 
move the aircraft or the prop.

On 07/05/2012 04:14 PM, Hyde Yamakawa wrote:
> Does this happen only left wind, right? Or happens on right wind too?
>
> Hyde
>
> (2012年07月05日 10:02), Viktor Radnai wrote:
>> Technically, you also have the compression of the wheels -- when the
>> wheel turns, part of the tire in the front gets compressed while the
>> back gets uncompressed. This is also a friction loss. Plus there is some
>> friction between the rubber and the road.
>>
>> But my point is that the amount of friction is wrong. The plane should
>> not start rolling with a 3 knot wind, that's nonsense.
>>
>> Static friction is greater than dynamic friction. If you stop your car
>> on moderately flat terrain with no brakes, it will not start to roll
>> easily, not even if it's windy. If the terrain is flat, it will stay
>> put. If the slope is greater, it might start to roll very slowly with
>> the bearings turning in "stick/slip" mode and then finally it will just
>> roll and accelerate. So the plane should stay put until there's a 20-30
>> knot wind blowing against it. Probably more on grass. On grass with the
>> real plane you might need half throttle or more to get it moving. The
>> funny thing is that this part seems to be modelled correctly in
>> Flightgear, so no idea what's wrong with the effect of the wind :)
>>
>> Same goes for the prop, the resistance the shut down engine offers is
>> too small and so it's turned over way too easily. Turning the prop of
>> the Falke at about 2/3 of its span requires about the same amount of
>> force as lifting an object that weights 1-2 kg. This is a rough guess
>> and the actual force varies during the compression cycle but you get the
>> idea.
>>
>> For the wheels, I can try to make sure that the brakes are always
>> slightly set, but what do I do for the prop?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Vik
>>
>> On 07/05/2012 03:30 PM, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:
>>> On Thursday 05 July 2012 15:21:24 Viktor Radnai wrote:
>>>> 1. When the aircraft is parked with no parking brake, it will usually
>>>> start to roll slowly backwards -- pushed by the wind and maybe the
>>>> runway slope. If I start the engine on idle, the thrust generated by the
>>>> idle prop might stop this roll. On tarmac, even a 3 knot wind is enough
>>>> to start pushing the plane back. On grass more is needed -- maybe 20 knots?
>>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In that case, even in real life, there's no other friction at play than the
>>> friction inside the wheel bearings, friction which is very low, almost
>>> ignorable.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Emilian
>>>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim static friction?

[Viktor Radnai]

You mean when the wind is blowing from the front-left of the plane?

Cheers,
Vik

On 07/05/2012 04:14 PM, Hyde Yamakawa wrote:
> Does this happen only left wind, right? Or happens on right wind too?
>
> Hyde
>
> (2012年07月05日 10:02), Viktor Radnai wrote:
>> Technically, you also have the compression of the wheels -- when the
>> wheel turns, part of the tire in the front gets compressed while the
>> back gets uncompressed. This is also a friction loss. Plus there is some
>> friction between the rubber and the road.
>>
>> But my point is that the amount of friction is wrong. The plane should
>> not start rolling with a 3 knot wind, that's nonsense.
>>
>> Static friction is greater than dynamic friction. If you stop your car
>> on moderately flat terrain with no brakes, it will not start to roll
>> easily, not even if it's windy. If the terrain is flat, it will stay
>> put. If the slope is greater, it might start to roll very slowly with
>> the bearings turning in "stick/slip" mode and then finally it will just
>> roll and accelerate. So the plane should stay put until there's a 20-30
>> knot wind blowing against it. Probably more on grass. On grass with the
>> real plane you might need half throttle or more to get it moving. The
>> funny thing is that this part seems to be modelled correctly in
>> Flightgear, so no idea what's wrong with the effect of the wind :)
>>
>> Same goes for the prop, the resistance the shut down engine offers is
>> too small and so it's turned over way too easily. Turning the prop of
>> the Falke at about 2/3 of its span requires about the same amount of
>> force as lifting an object that weights 1-2 kg. This is a rough guess
>> and the actual force varies during the compression cycle but you get the
>> idea.
>>
>> For the wheels, I can try to make sure that the brakes are always
>> slightly set, but what do I do for the prop?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Vik
>>
>> On 07/05/2012 03:30 PM, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:
>>> On Thursday 05 July 2012 15:21:24 Viktor Radnai wrote:
>>>> 1. When the aircraft is parked with no parking brake, it will usually
>>>> start to roll slowly backwards -- pushed by the wind and maybe the
>>>> runway slope. If I start the engine on idle, the thrust generated by the
>>>> idle prop might stop this roll. On tarmac, even a 3 knot wind is enough
>>>> to start pushing the plane back. On grass more is needed -- maybe 20 knots?
>>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In that case, even in real life, there's no other friction at play than the
>>> friction inside the wheel bearings, friction which is very low, almost
>>> ignorable.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Emilian
>>>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Yasim static friction?

[Viktor Radnai]

Technically, you also have the compression of the wheels -- when the 
wheel turns, part of the tire in the front gets compressed while the 
back gets uncompressed. This is also a friction loss. Plus there is some 
friction between the rubber and the road.

But my point is that the amount of friction is wrong. The plane should 
not start rolling with a 3 knot wind, that's nonsense.

Static friction is greater than dynamic friction. If you stop your car 
on moderately flat terrain with no brakes, it will not start to roll 
easily, not even if it's windy. If the terrain is flat, it will stay 
put. If the slope is greater, it might start to roll very slowly with 
the bearings turning in "stick/slip" mode and then finally it will just 
roll and accelerate. So the plane should stay put until there's a 20-30 
knot wind blowing against it. Probably more on grass. On grass with the 
real plane you might need half throttle or more to get it moving. The 
funny thing is that this part seems to be modelled correctly in 
Flightgear, so no idea what's wrong with the effect of the wind :)

Same goes for the prop, the resistance the shut down engine offers is 
too small and so it's turned over way too easily. Turning the prop of 
the Falke at about 2/3 of its span requires about the same amount of 
force as lifting an object that weights 1-2 kg. This is a rough guess 
and the actual force varies during the compression cycle but you get the 
idea.

For the wheels, I can try to make sure that the brakes are always 
slightly set, but what do I do for the prop?

Cheers,
Vik

On 07/05/2012 03:30 PM, Emilian Huminiuc wrote:
> On Thursday 05 July 2012 15:21:24 Viktor Radnai wrote:
>> 1. When the aircraft is parked with no parking brake, it will usually
>> start to roll slowly backwards -- pushed by the wind and maybe the
>> runway slope. If I start the engine on idle, the thrust generated by the
>> idle prop might stop this roll. On tarmac, even a 3 knot wind is enough
>> to start pushing the plane back. On grass more is needed -- maybe 20 knots?
>>
> Hi,
>
> In that case, even in real life, there's no other friction at play than the
> friction inside the wheel bearings, friction which is very low, almost
> ignorable.
>
> Regards,
> Emilian
>
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[Flightgear-devel] Yasim static friction?

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

I have a Yasim question I can't figure out from the documentation. We're 
working on the sf25b and noticed that both that, and the Grob g109 
(which is a similar aircraft so we use it to reference things) seem to 
suffer from "lack of static friction". I might be misinterpreting the 
issue, but here's what I've got:

1. When the aircraft is parked with no parking brake, it will usually 
start to roll slowly backwards -- pushed by the wind and maybe the 
runway slope. If I start the engine on idle, the thrust generated by the 
idle prop might stop this roll. On tarmac, even a 3 knot wind is enough 
to start pushing the plane back. On grass more is needed -- maybe 20 knots?

2. When the aircraft is stopped with the engine off, the prop is turned 
by the wind. A wind of 3 knots will turn it very slowly (maybe 1 RPM), a 
wind of 25 knots will turn it a lot faster.

3. The prop will windmill forever. On this particular aircraft, 
somewhere between 40 and 50 knots the prop should stop windmilling, and 
stay stopped until about 70 knots, where it should start turning around 
very slowly, and possibly start windmilling again at faster speeds.

I don't see any obvious properties to set to take the engine's 
resistance to turning over, or the friction of the wheels into account 
to stop these unrealistic things from happening. How should I go about 
fixing them?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Cheers,
Vik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] socket communication

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi Sanny,

Take a look at this code:

http://code.google.com/p/binarymillenium/source/browse/trunk/flightgear/?r=125#flightgear%2Ffgauto

The net_fdm.hxx and net_ctrls.hxx files are from Flightgear and define 
two data structures that can be sent and received by fgfs. In your 
program you can receive the FGNetCtrls structure, change the parameters 
you want to control, and send it back.

The following fgfs parameters will create the control sockets:
--native-ctrls=socket,in,10,127.0.0.1,5600,udp
--native-ctrls=socket,out,10,127.0.0.1,5700,udp

You will likely also need FDM data:
--native-fdm=socket,out,10,127.0.0.1,5500,udp

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Vik


On 06/24/2012 09:28 PM, Sanny wrote:
> Yes, thanks. but that shows how the socket server receives data from
> client (flightgear) what I want is to send data from server to client
> (flightgear).
>
> 2012/6/24 Jonathan Tanant mailto:jonat...@free.fr>>
>
> Hi Sanny,
>
> Take a look at this :
> http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Create_a_generic_protocol
>
> Best,
> Jonathan.
>
>
> Le 24 juin 2012 à 19:04, Sanny a écrit :
>
>  >
>  > Hello!
>  >
>  > My name is Sanny, i'm ecuadorian, i speak spanish and i'm trying
> to improve my english apologize me for this :)
>  >
>  > I'm trying to make a flight simulator, but there are certain
> things that i don't know. I want to have on my computer a
> client-server communication via socket, I want to send data and
> modify the properties of the simulator from my socket server, I
> would like to know what the operation and what should I do.
>  >
>  > Can you help me? :)
>  >
>  > Thanks!
>  >
>  > Sanny :)
>  >
> 
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>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Merge request: SF-25 Falke

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi Thorsten,

Thanks for the comments, glad you liked it :)

You're right about the radio stack -- in fact this Falke is rather 
"over-instrumented" compared to most of its brethren. The instrument 
panel is roughly based on the one I'm doing my PPL on, and I've added 
this radio because it looked similar. The original aircraft also doesn't 
have a separate navaid display but the radio can display the VOR radial 
on its screen. Do you know if a similar radio has been modelled in FG?

Also while we're talking instruments... How do I model an engine with a 
single magneto? The Falke just has an ignition switch, and I couldn't 
easily find a way to make the switch turn both mags on -- also I still 
need to press the '{}' keys three times to turn on and shut off the 
engine. Any suggestions would be welcome :)

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Vik

On 06/13/2012 11:27 AM, Renk Thorsten wrote:
>> I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look at the
>> aircraft as well to check that everything is OK or if there is anything
>> to fix.
>
> Hi Vik,
>
> I rather liked the plane - some impressions in the Forum:
>
> http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9446&p=159456#p159456
>
> No obvious problems here, although it seems to have a navaid frequency
> selector, but no navaid pointer I could see...
>
> Cheers,
>
> * Thorsten
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[Flightgear-devel] Merge request: SF-25 Falke

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

I've created a merge request to update the SF-25 Falke. Do I need to do 
anything else to get it merged?

https://gitorious.org/fg/fgdata/merge_requests/108

Also this is only my third merge request so the whole process is fairly 
new to me. I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look at the 
aircraft as well to check that everything is OK or if there is anything 
to fix.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Vik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Starting engine using FGNetCtrls

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi Curt,

I thought about that before but I don't think so. I'm printing a line 
for every single ctrl packet I'm sending, and each ctrl packet is in 
response to one from FG. If I kill the app, or tell it to stop sending 
ctrl messages, nothing else seems to be controlling anything.


Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 459.994720
Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 461.520630
Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 460.076843
Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 461.829773
Engine state: 2, mag: 3, starter: 0, RPM: 534.171448
Engine state: 2, mag: 3, starter: 0, RPM: 695.545776
Engine state: 2, mag: 3, starter: 0, RPM: 909.278687
Engine state: 2, mag: 3, starter: 0, RPM: 1037.803955

The above is a successful startup. The output tells me that the starter 
is constantly on, which is the expected behaviour given this code:

 if(f.eng_state[0] < 2 && runEngine) c.starter_power[0] = 1;
 if((f.eng_state[0] == 2  && f.rpm[0] > 500) || !runEngine) 
c.starter_power[0] = 0;

I did notice that when I press 's', the engine is in the intermediate 
'cranking' stage, which seems to be missing above. Although it could 
also be that due to the full throttle the 'cranking' stage is so short 
it didn't show up.

Anyway, I'm currently cloning fgdata and once I'm done with that, I'll 
repeat the test on the master branch.

Cheers,
Vik


On 06/01/2012 09:51 PM, Curtis Olson wrote:
> It makes me wonder if some other control is battling for the starter
> property and it's not consistently switched on?
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Viktor Radnai  <mailto:viktor.rad...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Actually the engine rpm is usually oscillating between 430 and 450 rpm.
> Therefore it must be shutting down and starting up repeatedly, or at
> least I think that's what's happening. Also it could be possible that
> when the starter engages, it might pull the rpm back momentarily.
>
> In any case, I just did a couple more tests and this time around the RPM
> slowly increased past 460 and then the engine managed to start. But it
> seems to take a random amount of time before that happens, so perhaps
> the wind might be helping out. Or it could be something related to the
> timing of the UDP control packets, I really have no idea.
>
> Anyway, I'll give the new code a go at some point, it's about time I
> rebuilt from git again.
>
> Cheers,
> Vik
>
> On 06/01/2012 09:16 PM, Ron Jensen wrote:
>  > There is a change to the starter motor code (should be entering
> git real soon
>  > now) that may help address this. But your engine should have
> 'started' as it
>  > exceeded 440 RPM... Anyway, glad it works now, and we can revisit
> this after
>  > FlightGear syncs JSBSim.
>  >
>  > Ron
>  >
>  > On Friday 01 June 2012 09:39:52 Viktor Radnai wrote:
>  >> Hi Ron,
>  >>
>  >> A quick test confirms that you were indeed right:
>  >>
>  >> Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 440.915466
>  >> Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 440.567566
>  >> Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 447.837677
>  >> Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 445.897156
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> It must be that the periodic engaging and disengaging of the starter
>  >> makes it impossible to reach 550 rpm. If I also press 's' in
> Flightgear,
>  >> the engine will start immediately. Also if I reset the game and
> the prop
>  >> is still turning, it will start.
>  >>
>  >> I do find it a bit odd how the starter was implemented. I wonder
> if it's
>  >> feasible to change it so it keeps running until a starter_power=0 is
>  >> received. In the meantime I might just change the idle RPM to
> 440 in my
>  >> copy so I'm able to start the engine.
>  >>
>  >> Thanks for your help!
>  >>
>  >> Cheers,
>  >> Vik
>  >>
>  >> On 06/01/2012 02:16 AM, Ron Jensen wrote:
>  >>>>  From eng_io320.xml:
>  >>>
>  >>>550.0
>  >>>
>  >>> The engine needs to reach 440 RPM to start (80% of 550, the
> coded idle
>  >>> RPM) if you're reaching above 440 RPM make sure you've engaged
> fuel and
>  >>> magneto controls. If you're not reaching that perhaps you need
>

Re: [Flightgear-devel] Starting engine using FGNetCtrls

[Viktor Radnai]

Actually the engine rpm is usually oscillating between 430 and 450 rpm. 
Therefore it must be shutting down and starting up repeatedly, or at 
least I think that's what's happening. Also it could be possible that 
when the starter engages, it might pull the rpm back momentarily.

In any case, I just did a couple more tests and this time around the RPM 
slowly increased past 460 and then the engine managed to start. But it 
seems to take a random amount of time before that happens, so perhaps 
the wind might be helping out. Or it could be something related to the 
timing of the UDP control packets, I really have no idea.

Anyway, I'll give the new code a go at some point, it's about time I 
rebuilt from git again.

Cheers,
Vik

On 06/01/2012 09:16 PM, Ron Jensen wrote:
> There is a change to the starter motor code (should be entering git real soon
> now) that may help address this. But your engine should have 'started' as it
> exceeded 440 RPM... Anyway, glad it works now, and we can revisit this after
> FlightGear syncs JSBSim.
>
> Ron
>
> On Friday 01 June 2012 09:39:52 Viktor Radnai wrote:
>> Hi Ron,
>>
>> A quick test confirms that you were indeed right:
>>
>> Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 440.915466
>> Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 440.567566
>> Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 447.837677
>> Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 445.897156
>>
>>
>> It must be that the periodic engaging and disengaging of the starter
>> makes it impossible to reach 550 rpm. If I also press 's' in Flightgear,
>> the engine will start immediately. Also if I reset the game and the prop
>> is still turning, it will start.
>>
>> I do find it a bit odd how the starter was implemented. I wonder if it's
>> feasible to change it so it keeps running until a starter_power=0 is
>> received. In the meantime I might just change the idle RPM to 440 in my
>> copy so I'm able to start the engine.
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Vik
>>
>> On 06/01/2012 02:16 AM, Ron Jensen wrote:
>>>>  From eng_io320.xml:
>>>
>>>550.0
>>>
>>> The engine needs to reach 440 RPM to start (80% of 550, the coded idle
>>> RPM) if you're reaching above 440 RPM make sure you've engaged fuel and
>>> magneto controls. If you're not reaching that perhaps you need to look
>>> into the controlling nasal as the c172 uses some non-standard stuff. Also
>>> make sure you're not sitting with a strong tailwind as that can affect
>>> some propeller configurations and make them harder to turn.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> On Thursday 31 May 2012 15:16:42 Viktor Radnai wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to use Flightgear for developing/testing UAV code (yep,
>>>> another one of those :) ). I'm currently putting together an SDL app
>>>> that communicates with FG.
>>>>
>>>> I'm using the FGNetCtrls structure from net_ctrls.hxx. I'm trying to
>>>> start the C172's engine but when I set startup_power = 1, the engine
>>>> tries to start, but won't. Flightgear behaves like I was repeatedly
>>>> pressing the 's' key several times per second rather than holding it
>>>> down, so the engine spins up, but not quite enough to start. Am I doing
>>>> something wrong?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help in advance.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Vik
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Starting engine using FGNetCtrls

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi Ron,

A quick test confirms that you were indeed right:

Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 440.915466
Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 440.567566
Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 447.837677
Engine state: 0, mag: 3, starter: 1, RPM: 445.897156


It must be that the periodic engaging and disengaging of the starter 
makes it impossible to reach 550 rpm. If I also press 's' in Flightgear, 
the engine will start immediately. Also if I reset the game and the prop 
is still turning, it will start.

I do find it a bit odd how the starter was implemented. I wonder if it's 
feasible to change it so it keeps running until a starter_power=0 is 
received. In the meantime I might just change the idle RPM to 440 in my 
copy so I'm able to start the engine.

Thanks for your help!

Cheers,
Vik

On 06/01/2012 02:16 AM, Ron Jensen wrote:
>> From eng_io320.xml:
>  550.0
>
> The engine needs to reach 440 RPM to start (80% of 550, the coded idle RPM) if
> you're reaching above 440 RPM make sure you've engaged fuel and magneto
> controls. If you're not reaching that perhaps you need to look into the
> controlling nasal as the c172 uses some non-standard stuff. Also make sure
> you're not sitting with a strong tailwind as that can affect some propeller
> configurations and make them harder to turn.
>
> Ron
>
> On Thursday 31 May 2012 15:16:42 Viktor Radnai wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm going to use Flightgear for developing/testing UAV code (yep,
>> another one of those :) ). I'm currently putting together an SDL app
>> that communicates with FG.
>>
>> I'm using the FGNetCtrls structure from net_ctrls.hxx. I'm trying to
>> start the C172's engine but when I set startup_power = 1, the engine
>> tries to start, but won't. Flightgear behaves like I was repeatedly
>> pressing the 's' key several times per second rather than holding it
>> down, so the engine spins up, but not quite enough to start. Am I doing
>> something wrong?
>>
>> Thanks for your help in advance.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Vik
>>
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[Flightgear-devel] Starting engine using FGNetCtrls

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

I'm going to use Flightgear for developing/testing UAV code (yep, 
another one of those :) ). I'm currently putting together an SDL app 
that communicates with FG.

I'm using the FGNetCtrls structure from net_ctrls.hxx. I'm trying to 
start the C172's engine but when I set startup_power = 1, the engine 
tries to start, but won't. Flightgear behaves like I was repeatedly 
pressing the 's' key several times per second rather than holding it 
down, so the engine spins up, but not quite enough to start. Am I doing 
something wrong?

Thanks for your help in advance.

Cheers,
Vik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ccmake problems with flightgear git latest

[Viktor Radnai]

Thanks for that. One of these days I'll actually learn git I promise :) 
Unfortunately I already nuked the old tree so I can't figure out what 
was left over that was causing the error.

Cheers,
Vik

On 01/11/2012 01:50 PM, Stefan Seifert wrote:
> On Wednesday 11 January 2012 13:27:04 Viktor Radnai wrote:
> If git status showed nothing, there could still be generated files covered by
> .gitignore which had to be cleared like some cmake cache. You can see them
> with git status --ignored
> To bring back your working directory to the pristine state in the repository,
> you can use git clean which removes all files that git doesn't know about. git
> clean -x would clean even those which mach rules in .gitignore
>

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] ccmake problems with flightgear git latest

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

I had the same issue. It's quite odd. Git status was showing my tree as 
unmodified but I had to do the same thing (clone a new copy) with 
simgear otherwise it was not finding OSG in /usr/include. I think it was 
only looking in /usr/local/include for some reason.

Cheers,
Vik

On 12/06/2011 12:51 AM, Sid Boyce wrote:
> A new clone of flightgear sorted that problem out.
> Regards
> Sid.
>
> On 05/12/11 23:38, Sid Boyce wrote:
>>
>>   [ FindOpenSceneGraph.cmake:130 ] Failed to parse version number,
>> please report this as a bug
>>
>>   CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake/Modules/FindOpenSceneGraph.cmake:199
>> (message):
>> ERROR: Version 3.0.0 or higher of the OSG is required.  Version ..
>> was
>> found.
>>   Call Stack (most recent call first):
>> CMakeLists.txt:194 (find_package)
>>
>> # rpm -q OpenSceneGraph
>> OpenSceneGraph-3.0.1-55.x86_64
>>
>> I had the same problems with simgear until I did the latest git pull.
>> openSUSE cmake-2.8.6-3.4.x86_64
>>
>> Help appreciated.
>> Regards
>> Sid.
>>
>
>

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New experimental mapserver

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

If you are looking for airports with extreme runway slope for testing, 
may I suggest Lukla, Nepal (VNLK). If that one comes out looking right, 
I'd say you've got the code sorted :)

Cheers,
Vik


On 09/10/2011 02:47 PM, Christian Schmitt wrote:
> Curtis Olson wrote:
>
>> I won't say this is perfect in all areas ... some areas have stray data
>> points or noise in the terrain data that confuses things.  There's always
>> a chance of a mismatch between airport location terrain location so that
>> we
>> are trying to put the airport on not quite the right underlying terrain.
>> My thoughts for future extensions of this code would be to allow for
>> creating specific tuning parameters for airports that didn't behave well
>> with the default parameters.
>
> An nice example where a high slope leads to bad results would be LFLJ,
> however, it is possible in such cases to use the --max-slope option in
> genapts.
>
> Chris
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New aircraft: SF-25

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

The model was updated again. (Still at
http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/sf25b.tar.bz2 ). Changes from
yesterday:

- Dependencies to other models removed
- Radio and glider vario now works
- Improved sounds

I still need some help to figure out why it wants to ground loop so
badly on takeoff  and especially landing. Any help would be
appreciated.

Also I promise that if someone sets up the model in FG git, I'll stop
spamming the list every time I update it :)

Cheers,
Vik


On 23 August 2011 17:22, Viktor Radnai  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have uploaded a newer version of the Falke. Grab it from here as before:
>
> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/sf25b.tar.bz2
>
> The model now has the beginnings of an instrument panel, with instruments
> recycled from Instruments-3d or other models. The model specifically depends
> on the ASK13, Grob-109, Katana and pa28-161 for now. I had to make a
> heavy-handed change to the model, changing the tilt of the instrument panel.
> Could someone who actually knows how to use Blender please patch up the
> holes left in the fuselage by my change? Also I notice that the wings
> sometimes disappear when looking from inside of the cabin, leaving the
> wheels, spoilers and ailerons flying in formation with the plane. If someone
> could help me fix that, I'd appreciate it.
>
> I need some help with the instruments as well. The radio, the outside air
> temp meter, the glider vario and the engine monitoring instruments don't
> seem to work for now. Could you please take a look and give me some pointers
> on what I'm missing?
>
> I did not see what the consensus on adding new models to git was, but could
> someone please set up a repo for this model if possible?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Cheers,
> Vik
>
> On 08/17/2011 02:10 AM, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have updated the model. Please download and test again if you are
>> interested.
>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/sf25b.tar.bz2
>>
>> Many thanks to all especially Gary aka Buckaroo for his yasim xml and
>> explanations.
>>
>> List of changes:
>>
>> - CG supposedly closer to real CG.
>> - More realistic sink rates
>> - Probably more realistic engine RPMs as well (can't remember how good
>> the ones in the last version were)
>> - Brakes now only start working on the last 20% of spoiler travel, as
>> they should do
>> - Working splash screen, yay :)
>> - Incorporated Gary's nasal code snippet for managing the parking brake.
>>
>> List of known issues:
>> - Above mentioned code snippet can't actually test it yet as Shift-B is
>> remapped (d'oh).
>> - Glide properties seem OK, but trim is nose heavy (stick must be pulled
>> most of the time, neutral trim point seems to be near Vne or about 100
>> knots)
>> - There seems to be some yaw instability at the moment when the tail
>> gear comes off the ground. No idea if this is only in crosswind or not.
>> No idea if the real plane does this in crosswind or not. Pulling the
>> stick slightly during the takeoff run (which you should do anyway) seems
>> to help. Comments from anyone familiar with the type would be very much
>> welcome.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Vik
>>
>> I can't really follow the discussion on the Yasim internals
>> On 08/16/2011 02:29 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020617.JPG
>>>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020618.JPG
>>>>
>>> Am I the only one that noticed that someone has been mowing a lawn with
>>> that prop? :)
>>>
>>> g.
>>>
>



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG hangs while waiting for METAR data?

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi James,

Thanks for that. I just wanted to report it in case noone did yet.

Cheers,
Vik

On 24 August 2011 10:35, James Turner  wrote:
>
> On 24 Aug 2011, at 08:57, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>
>> I could be wrong but it appears to me that FG will hang if the METAR
>> server is unreachable. I was using FG while connected to the Internet
>> via my phone (through wifi). Whenever my phone reboots or connectivity
>> is lost, FG would produce a square wave pattern on my CPU meter. It
>> would run for 10 sec and block for 20 sec with CPU use on 0, then run
>> again for 10 sec, etc. Disabling live METAR data would make this go
>> away. I presume this only happens if the connection to the METAR server
>> times out, but would be highly annoying to any user.
>
> Yep, this is known, I'm working on a fix, but the first attempt to commit it 
> caused other problems - working on fixing the issues at the moment.
>
> See:
>
>        http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=401
>
> James
>
>
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[Flightgear-devel] FG hangs while waiting for METAR data?

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

I could be wrong but it appears to me that FG will hang if the METAR 
server is unreachable. I was using FG while connected to the Internet 
via my phone (through wifi). Whenever my phone reboots or connectivity 
is lost, FG would produce a square wave pattern on my CPU meter. It 
would run for 10 sec and block for 20 sec with CPU use on 0, then run 
again for 10 sec, etc. Disabling live METAR data would make this go 
away. I presume this only happens if the connection to the METAR server 
times out, but would be highly annoying to any user.

Cheers,
Vik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New aircraft: SF-25

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

I have uploaded a newer version of the Falke. Grab it from here as before:

http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/sf25b.tar.bz2

The model now has the beginnings of an instrument panel, with 
instruments recycled from Instruments-3d or other models. The model 
specifically depends on the ASK13, Grob-109, Katana and pa28-161 for 
now. I had to make a heavy-handed change to the model, changing the tilt 
of the instrument panel. Could someone who actually knows how to use 
Blender please patch up the holes left in the fuselage by my change? 
Also I notice that the wings sometimes disappear when looking from 
inside of the cabin, leaving the wheels, spoilers and ailerons flying in 
formation with the plane. If someone could help me fix that, I'd 
appreciate it.

I need some help with the instruments as well. The radio, the outside 
air temp meter, the glider vario and the engine monitoring instruments 
don't seem to work for now. Could you please take a look and give me 
some pointers on what I'm missing?

I did not see what the consensus on adding new models to git was, but 
could someone please set up a repo for this model if possible?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Vik

On 08/17/2011 02:10 AM, Viktor Radnai wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have updated the model. Please download and test again if you are
> interested.
> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/sf25b.tar.bz2
>
> Many thanks to all especially Gary aka Buckaroo for his yasim xml and
> explanations.
>
> List of changes:
>
> - CG supposedly closer to real CG.
> - More realistic sink rates
> - Probably more realistic engine RPMs as well (can't remember how good
> the ones in the last version were)
> - Brakes now only start working on the last 20% of spoiler travel, as
> they should do
> - Working splash screen, yay :)
> - Incorporated Gary's nasal code snippet for managing the parking brake.
>
> List of known issues:
> - Above mentioned code snippet can't actually test it yet as Shift-B is
> remapped (d'oh).
> - Glide properties seem OK, but trim is nose heavy (stick must be pulled
> most of the time, neutral trim point seems to be near Vne or about 100
> knots)
> - There seems to be some yaw instability at the moment when the tail
> gear comes off the ground. No idea if this is only in crosswind or not.
> No idea if the real plane does this in crosswind or not. Pulling the
> stick slightly during the takeoff run (which you should do anyway) seems
> to help. Comments from anyone familiar with the type would be very much
> welcome.
>
> Cheers,
> Vik
>
> I can't really follow the discussion on the Yasim internals
> On 08/16/2011 02:29 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020617.JPG
>>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020618.JPG
>>>
>> Am I the only one that noticed that someone has been mowing a lawn with
>> that prop? :)
>>
>> g.
>>

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] YASIM Comment (was New aircraft: SF-25)

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi Adrian,

On 08/16/2011 12:46 PM, Adrian Musceac wrote:
> Viktor,
> During the long hours which have been spent by Emilian and I tweaking the
> IAR80 FDM, I have found out that three tag parameters have a very heavy
> influence on the solver: [approach aoa="" glide-angle=""] and [cruise glide-
> angle=""]
> Basically if you get these two right your L/D ratio will come inside a usable
> range. After that you could tweak the other wing parameters like stall etc.
> I suggest taking a look at the IAR80 for some other ideas.

Thanks, tweaking the touchdown AoA was definitely useful. My problem is 
that I don't have any solid figures for the AoA, so anything I put in 
there would be a guess. The best clue I could find was that the Falke 
touches down tail wheel first at around 65-70 km/h. That would require 
an AoA of about 10-20 degs wouldn't it? But that's not really an 
approach speed but a good approximation of the stall speed and critical 
AoA. Would that help the solver?

Cheers,
Vik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New aircraft: SF-25

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

I have updated the model. Please download and test again if you are 
interested.
http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/sf25b.tar.bz2

Many thanks to all especially Gary aka Buckaroo for his yasim xml and 
explanations.

List of changes:

- CG supposedly closer to real CG.
- More realistic sink rates
- Probably more realistic engine RPMs as well (can't remember how good 
the ones in the last version were)
- Brakes now only start working on the last 20% of spoiler travel, as 
they should do
- Working splash screen, yay :)
- Incorporated Gary's nasal code snippet for managing the parking brake.

List of known issues:
- Above mentioned code snippet can't actually test it yet as Shift-B is 
remapped (d'oh).
- Glide properties seem OK, but trim is nose heavy (stick must be pulled 
most of the time, neutral trim point seems to be near Vne or about 100 
knots)
- There seems to be some yaw instability at the moment when the tail 
gear comes off the ground. No idea if this is only in crosswind or not. 
No idea if the real plane does this in crosswind or not. Pulling the 
stick slightly during the takeoff run (which you should do anyway) seems 
to help. Comments from anyone familiar with the type would be very much 
welcome.

Cheers,
Vik

I can't really follow the discussion on the Yasim internals
On 08/16/2011 02:29 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>
>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020617.JPG
>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020618.JPG
>>
> Am I the only one that noticed that someone has been mowing a lawn with
> that prop? :)
>
> g.
>

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New aircraft: SF-25

[Viktor Radnai]

Haha, that was me taxiing her out for takeoff for the first time! Part 
of the normal taxiway was cordoned off for some kind of car tuning show 
(you can see that on the left) and we had to go through slightly longer 
grass, with some weeds sticking out. That's the great thing about a 
grass airfield, after a point, the planes will take care of the 
lawnmowing :D

On 08/16/2011 02:29 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011, Viktor Radnai wrote:
>
>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020617.JPG
>> http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020618.JPG
>>
> Am I the only one that noticed that someone has been mowing a lawn with
> that prop? :)
>
> g.
>

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] New aircraft: SF-25

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi guys,

Thanks for this. Gary, I gave your yasim xml a spin. (sorry, long mail 
ahead) I don't have enough experience with the plane yet to comment on 
everything. The real thing seems to behave a bit better on takeoff when 
there is no crosswind -- haven't done a crosswind takeoff or landing 
yet, so I can't comment on that. One problem with the model is that the 
support wheels shouldn't both touch the ground, they should allow the 
plane to tilt maybe 10-15 degrees in either direction. They also bend 
and flex when slammed hard, for shock absorbtion.

The airbrakes are definitely not efficient enough. My school sets down 
that we must always land the Falke with the engine stopped (they had 
people breaking the plane with powered landings early on, so they 
forbade it). Therefore we do a very 'glider-style' landing, pretty steep 
descent at around 60 knots with the spoilers extended all the way, 
levelling out just above the runway with the spoilers still out. You 
just release it back a little so you don't accidentally brake and nose 
over :) More on that later. This way you touch down at around 35-40 
knots, but you must continue to hold the spoilers out, otherwise you 
might get airborne again above 30 (depending on weight which influences 
stall speed).

See some pics of a landing here:
http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020616.JPG
http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020617.JPG
http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/P1020618.JPG

So the speedbrakes must be effective enough to be able to do this :)

Regarding the speedbrake/brake link and flight controls...

The Falke has a fixed prop and no mixture lever. I've read somewhere 
that the Limbach engine is actually an adopted VW engine, maybe that's 
why. Apart from the throttle, all you've got is a carb heat lever and on 
the C model and later, a cowl flap that helps regulate engine 
temperature (the B has a fixed cover that you install in the winter only).

On landing, the spoiler is your primary glidescope control. I have a 
Saitek Aviator which has a split throttle -- I map one half to the 
spoiler and that works great. The problem with the config I submitted is 
that the brakes start working at around 50% travel. Like you said, this 
is not correct. Please read on for a somewhat long-winded explanation on 
how it's used in practice:

The Falke's fuselage is welded metal tubing covered with canvas. The 
actual spoilers are spring-loaded and a fair bit of force is required to 
pull them out (if you'd let go of the lever, they would slam back down 
quite violently).

There are two spoiler levers in the cockpit -- one on the left, and one 
between the two seats. When you open the spoilers all the way, the left 
lever hits one if the fuselage tubes (a vertical one). You've got to 
pull that lever inward slightly to be able to pull it further back and 
engage the brakes. Only the C version and newer have a parking brake -- 
which is actually a small, loose lever dangling on the same fuselage 
tube that can be used to jam the spoiler in the fully open position. 
This is the best pic I could find that shows this:

http://www.alte-ems.de/flugzeuge/sf25c/sf25c_cockpit1.jpg.JPG

The spoiler lever handles are blue, the fuselage tubing and the rest of 
the spoiler lever is grey. If you look carefully on the left of the pic 
below the placard you can see a little black knob -- that's the parking 
brake lever. I'll try to remember to take close ups next time I'll go 
flying.

It's all very crude and simple but actually quite clever and efficient 
way to ensure that you don't land with the wheel locked. But it seems 
that it still happens sometimes: 
http://wap.airliners.net/photo/0003212/L/ :)

I wish I had the skills to do these animations, but probably the best I 
can come up with would be a bit of nasal code to link the spoilers and 
the brakes. I can see that if we made it work like it does in the real 
thing, that might confuse and piss off FG users, who might expect that 
the parking brake, brake and spoiler work independently. Personally I'd 
prefer if they were linked the following way:

1. If you hit the brakes (b key or toe brake pedals, etc), the spoilers 
would open all the way. This would do for a handy shortcut for full 
spoilers.
2. If you set the spoiler controls to 80%, the spoilers should be fully 
open and you should start applying the brake instead (this would be 
needed for joystick control).
3. If you set the parking brake, that should apply full brake and full 
spoilers. This should either override any joystick controls, or it's 
also OK by me if you can't set the parking brake unless you have either 
set full spoilers or full brakes.
4. Parking brake should be released by using any of the brake or spoiler 
controls.

What do you think? Is this doable? Does this require nasal coding?


Cheers,
Vik




On 08/16/2011 02:25 AM, Gary Neely wrote:
> Vik,
>
> Based on Maik's CG information and a little nosing around for
> performance information onl

[Flightgear-devel] New aircraft: SF-25

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

Athanasios Goritsas (cc-d) created a nice Falke 3D model with a basic 
Yasim profile, based on the aircraft he flew with. I would like to 
develop his model further (I'm doing my PPL on the real thing atm). We 
would both like to see it in Git (under a GPL license), maybe more 
people would join in developing it further. (If you need a statement on 
this directly from Athanasios, as he's the primary author, let us know.)

In the meantime, could you please check out the plane and shed some 
light to some Yasim parameters. You can grab it from 
http://www.avatarzenekar.hu/files/sf25b.tar.bz2

The biggest issue with the FDM is that the plane does not seem to have 
enough drag -- it easily goes over Vne, and it's impossible to land 
without spoilers unless you stop the engine (and even then it takes 
forever). Compared to the Grob 109, I had to use an absolutely huge drag 
multiplier to force the bird down (150 instead of 2.5). 150 is probably 
a bit much -- maybe 100-120 would be enough, but I think the airframe or 
the wings are just not generating enough drag.

Not sure if I did a good enough job with the fixed prop. The diameter 
should be correct, not sure about the rest. My school's falke has the 2L 
engine and it spins up to about 2600 when stopped. No idea about the 
prop's most efficient speed and horsepower values are pretty much guesses.

Anyway, please let us know if this is good enough to go into the repo, 
and any suggestions for improvement. Some (working) 3D instrument panel 
would be great, but I have no idea how to make that. Any pointers on 
that would be very much appreciated. Since Falkes have fairly varying 
instrumentation, even a copy of the Grob 109's panel could be OK.

Ah, and the splash screens I've made do not load. What did I do wrong?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Vik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Solved: Shift key stuck once pressed

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

This problem is also present in 2.0. I do not know what software 
contains the bug, but the issue is related to switching between keyboard 
layouts.

Specifically if I configure Gnome keyboard layout preferences in a way 
that "both shift keys together change the layout", I get the issue. I 
chose another configuration that does not use the shift keys and the 
issue is gone. I did not do any further testing, but now you should be 
able to reproduce the issue.

Cheers,
Vik

Melchior FRANZ wrote:
> JFTR: I confirm recent sporadic keyboard misbehaviour.
> 
> m.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shift key stuck once pressed

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi there,

I couldn't find any reference to osgviewer's keyboard commands. Based on 
some testing with the 'f' key to toggle fullscreen, it does not appear 
to be affected. If you could point me to some key mapping reference, or 
another OSG using app, I would happily do some more testing.

I have rebuilt both simgear and flightgear against the new OSG (and ran 
both ./configure && make clean before rebuilding to be sure). ldd 
confirms this:

e...@valkyrie:~/src/flightgear/flightgear/source$ 
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib64 ldd src/Main/fgfs | grep libosg
libosgFX.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosgFX.so.62 (0x7faec0459000)
libosgParticle.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosgParticle.so.62 
(0x7faec0209000)
libosgSim.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosgSim.so.62 (0x7faebff62000)
libosgViewer.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosgViewer.so.62 
(0x7faebfca4000)
libosgGA.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosgGA.so.62 (0x7faebfa46000)
libosgText.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosgText.so.62 
(0x7faebf7f4000)
libosgDB.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosgDB.so.62 (0x7faebf54c000)
libosgUtil.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosgUtil.so.62 
(0x7faebf1b8000)
libosg.so.62 => /usr/local/lib64/libosg.so.62 (0x7faebecfb000)

LD_LIBRARY_PATH is now required to start fgfs, otherwise it would not 
even start up because it wouldn't find the right version of the OSG libs.

Could this be caused by having an older version of another library or an 
out of date keyboard mapping file? (although I think I use the one from 
CVS as well...)

Cheers,
Vik

Csaba Halász wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Viktor Radnai  
> wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> There's a lot of output and some other information may also be relevant,
>> I'm not sure. The lines from the logs you asked for are here. I added
>> the '//comments' to let you know what I did there:
>>
>> User pressed key 118 with modifiers 0 // this is 'v'
>> User pressed key 86 with modifiers 2  // this is 'V', it works and shift
>> is stuck
>> User pressed key 118 with modifiers 2 // this is 'v' again
>> User pressed key 118 with modifiers 2 // this is 'v' again
>> User pressed key 86 with modifiers 2 //  this is 'V'
>>
>> Hope this helps. Let me know what next.
> 
> Looks like indeed OSG is feeding bad data. Have you tried osgviewer
> for example? Have you recompiled FG using the upgraded OSG?
> 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shift key stuck once pressed

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi there,

There's a lot of output and some other information may also be relevant, 
I'm not sure. The lines from the logs you asked for are here. I added 
the '//comments' to let you know what I did there:

User pressed key 118 with modifiers 0 // this is 'v'
User pressed key 86 with modifiers 2  // this is 'V', it works and shift 
is stuck
User pressed key 118 with modifiers 2 // this is 'v' again
User pressed key 118 with modifiers 2 // this is 'v' again
User pressed key 86 with modifiers 2 //  this is 'V'

Hope this helps. Let me know what next.

Cheers,
Vik


Csaba Halász wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Viktor Radnai  
> wrote:
>> Hi again,
>>
>> I've built OSG 2.9.6 and rebuilt the latest CVS version of Simgear &
>> Flightgear against it. Unfortunately I still get the problem.
>>
>> (It's fairly certain that I use the latest OSG as my freshly built fgfs
>> won't even start without me setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH -- it would complain
>> about not finding libosgFX.so.62.)
>>
>> What should I try next?
> 
> --log-level=debug
> Among all the other messages, it should give you something like:
> 
> User pressed key 88 with modifiers 2
> User released key 88 with modifiers 3
> User pressed key 120 with modifiers 0
> User released key 120 with modifiers 1
> 
> (that was a X followed by x) The last bit signals a key release.
> 
> The way I read the code, the modifiers are directly coming from OSG.
> You could try another OSG app, such as osgviewer, to see if it has the
> same problem.
> 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shift key stuck once pressed

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi again,

I've built OSG 2.9.6 and rebuilt the latest CVS version of Simgear & 
Flightgear against it. Unfortunately I still get the problem.

(It's fairly certain that I use the latest OSG as my freshly built fgfs 
won't even start without me setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH -- it would complain 
about not finding libosgFX.so.62.)

What should I try next?

Cheers,
Vik

Csaba Halász wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Viktor Radnai  
> wrote:
>> It's version 2.8.2-1 that comes with Debian unstable.
>>
>> Should I try 2.9.6 instead?
> 
> Yes. 2.8.2 reportedly also has the [ ] key bug.
> 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Shift key stuck once pressed

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi Csaba,

It's version 2.8.2-1 that comes with Debian unstable.

ii  libopenscenegraph-dev 2.8.2-1 
  3D scenegraph development files
ii  libopenscenegraph56   2.8.2-1 
  low level graphics library for openscenegrap
ii  openscenegraph2.8.2-1 
  3D scenegraph binary files
ii  openscenegraph-doc2.8.2-1 
  3D scenegraph documentation

Should I try 2.9.6 instead?

Cheers,
Vik

Csaba Halász wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Viktor Radnai  
> wrote:
>> I built the latest Flightgear version out of CVS and I'm using it with
>> the data directory straight out of CVS as well.
> 
> How about OSG? What version do you have?
> 


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[Flightgear-devel] Shift key stuck once pressed

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

(Please let me know if it would be more appropriate to report these 
issues at some bug tracker or the flightgear users list)

I built the latest Flightgear version out of CVS and I'm using it with 
the data directory straight out of CVS as well.

I have found a strange problem. When I load any model and then press one 
of the Shift keys, it gets 'stuck'. By this I mean that 
devices/status/keyboard/shift indicates 'true' even after I release the 
key, and all the lowercase keys (v for view, h for HUD, etc) stop 
functioning while uppercase keys (eg. H for HUD brightness) continue to 
work.

And only the shift key does this, all the other modifiers (Ctrl, Alt, 
Super) appear to work correctly. No errors are logged on the console. 
Any ideas how to go about debugging this?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Vik

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[Flightgear-devel] Handley-Page Victor K2 case sensitivity problem

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi there,

The panel on the Victor doesn't show (on Linux) due to a case 
sensitivity issue. Please apply attached patch to fix it.


Cheers,
Vik
Index: Aircraft/victor/Models/Panel.xml
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/victor/Models/Panel.xml,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -u -r1.1 Panel.xml
--- Aircraft/victor/Models/Panel.xml	15 Oct 2009 11:01:26 -	1.1
+++ Aircraft/victor/Models/Panel.xml	15 Feb 2010 21:14:39 -
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@
 
  
   RPM-1
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/rpm-1.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/rpm-1.xml
   

 scale
@@ -26,7 +26,7 @@
 
  
   RPM-2
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/rpm-2.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/rpm-2.xml
   

 scale
@@ -47,7 +47,7 @@
 
  
   RPM-3
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/rpm-3.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/rpm-3.xml
   

 scale
@@ -68,7 +68,7 @@
 
  
   RPM-4
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/rpm-4.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/rpm-4.xml
   

 scale
@@ -89,7 +89,7 @@
 
  
   Temp-1
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/jpt-1.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/jpt-1.xml
   

 scale
@@ -110,7 +110,7 @@
 
  
   Temp-2
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/jpt-2.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/jpt-2.xml
   

 scale
@@ -131,7 +131,7 @@
 
  
   Temp-3
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/jpt-3.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/jpt-3.xml
   

 scale
@@ -152,7 +152,7 @@
 
  
   Temp-4
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/jpt-4.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/jpt-4.xml
   

 scale
@@ -173,7 +173,7 @@
 
  
   OilPressure-1
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/oil-1.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/oil-1.xml
   

 scale
@@ -194,7 +194,7 @@
 
  
   OilPressure-2
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/oil-2.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/oil-2.xml
   

 scale
@@ -215,7 +215,7 @@
 
  
   OilPressure-3
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/oil-3.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/oil-3.xml
   

 scale
@@ -236,7 +236,7 @@
 
  
   OilPressure-4
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/oil-4.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/oil-4.xml
   

 scale
@@ -257,7 +257,7 @@
 
  
   Left ASI
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/asi.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/asi.xml
   
0.0
-0.56
@@ -267,7 +267,7 @@
 
  
   Left Alt
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/altimeter.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/altimeter.xml
   
0.0
-0.34
@@ -277,7 +277,7 @@
 
  
   Left HSI
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/hsi.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/hsi.xml
   
0.0
-0.64
@@ -287,7 +287,7 @@
 
  
   Left AI
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/ai.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/ai.xml
   
0.0
-0.37
@@ -297,7 +297,7 @@
 
  
   Right Alt
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/altimeter.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/altimeter.xml
   
0.0
0.65
@@ -307,7 +307,7 @@
 
  
   Right ASI
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/asi.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/asi.xml
   
0.0
0.43
@@ -317,7 +317,7 @@
 
  
   Right HSI
-  Aircraft/Victor/Models/Instruments/hsi.xml
+  Aircraft/victor/Models/Instruments/hsi.xml
   
0.0
0.64
Index: Aircraft/victor/Models/victor.xml
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/victor/Models/victor.xml,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -u -r1.1 victor.xml
--- Aircraft/victor/Models/victor.xml	15 Oct 2009 11:01:42 -	1.1
+++ Aircraft/victor/Models/victor.xml	15 Feb 2010 21:14:40 -
@@ -19,7 +19,7 @@
 
 
 
-Aircraft/Victor/Models/Panel.xml
+Aircraft/victor/Models/Panel.xml
 
2.65 
0.0 
Index: Aircraft/victor/Models/victor.xml.add
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/victor/Models/victor.xml.add,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -u -r1.1 victor.xml.add
--- Aircraft/victor/Models/victor.xml.add	15 Oct 2009 11:01:43 -	1.1
+++ Aircraft/victor/Models/victor.xml.add	15 Feb 2010 21:14:40 -
@@ -1,5 +1,5 @@
   
-Aircraft/Victor/Models/Panel.xml
+Aircraft/victor/Models/Panel.xml
 
2.65 
0.0 
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[Flightgear-devel] controls.throttleAxis mod for throttle factor and offset

[Viktor Radnai]

Hi all,

I wanted to share my modification of the axisHandler Nasal function (the 
one that implements control.throttleAxis, mixtureAxis, etc).

Purpose of the mod:

I have one of those joysticks that uses only 50% of the available 
movement range for the throttle. Unfortunately for me, if a binding in 
joystick.xml has a script target (eg. controls.throttleAxis) then the 
offset, factor, etc modifiers are all ignored. This resulted in me not 
being able to reduce throttle below 50%. I could have just mapped all 
the /controls/engines/engine[n]/throttle properties to this axis 
(Input/Joysticks/Logitech/wingman-force.xml does exactly that). Sadly at 
the time I didn't know that I can bind multiple actions to an axis, and 
somehow even after a lot of googling I didn't find the "obvious" 
solution to this problem.

Also it strikes me that throttleAxis exists so you don't have to map 
eight or more engines like that in the first place.

The mod:

The solution was really simple. I just extended the axisHanlder function 
in Nasal/controls.nas with extra parameters for factor and offset, and 
used those instead of the hard-coded values:

var axisHandler = func(pre, post) {
 func(invert = 0, factor = 2, offset = 1) {
 var val = cmdarg().getNode("setting").getValue();
 if(invert) val = -val;
 foreach(var e; engines)
 if(e.selected.getValue()) {
 setprop(pre ~ e.index ~ post, (offset - val) * factor);
 }
 }
}

My throttle binding now looks like this:

  
   Throttle
   
nasal

controls.throttleAxis(0, 1.1, -0.1)
   
  

Note that the invert param is really superfluous now -- you could just 
use a negative factor instead. But I kept it for backwards-compatibility 
with the way it works now. You could simplify the above function if you 
got rid of it but fgjs will need to be edited as well.

I hope you find this mod useful and add it to the next Flightgear 
release. If not, then at least it might show up in a Google search for 
the next guy with this problem :)

Cheers,
Vik
PS: thanks for all the hard work on Flightgear so far! :)

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