Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-24 Thread Stuart Buchanan
--- On Wed, 23/7/08, Vivian Meazza wrote:
 3d clouds have not been ported to osg. At the current rate
 of progress - sometime in the next decade :-).

Progress is marginally better than that - I've ported the code and have even 
got it to compile. 

I'm now at the stage of crashes-on-startup which will entertain me for some 
time while I remember how to write C++ code properly :) 

I expect to progress through the  random-black-squares-underneath-the-terrain, 
thirty-minutes-to-start and one-frame-per-second phases over the next month or 
so.

At this point, Tim will helpfully point out how I can make things much more 
efficient, and make the squares of texture actually look like clouds. Then 
finally we'll have 3-D clouds, and everyone will wonder what the fuss was about 
in the first place.

So, I wouldn't stay up late waiting for CVS commit messages, but equally I 
don't think things are quite as bad as they might seem. 

Finally, if anyone wants to help out, OSG isn't all that scary ... it is 
certainly easier to write for than plib!

-Stuart


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-24 Thread Sergey Kurdakov
Hello Stuart,

BTW

as 3d clouds seems used multipass rendering maybe
http://projects.tevs.eu/osgppu will be of some help.

Regards
Sergey

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 1:12 AM, Stuart Buchanan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- On Wed, 23/7/08, Vivian Meazza wrote:
 3d clouds have not been ported to osg. At the current rate
 of progress - sometime in the next decade :-).

 Progress is marginally better than that - I've ported the code and have even 
 got it to compile.

 I'm now at the stage of crashes-on-startup which will entertain me for some 
 time while I remember how to write C++ code properly :)

 I expect to progress through the  
 random-black-squares-underneath-the-terrain, thirty-minutes-to-start and 
 one-frame-per-second phases over the next month or so.

 At this point, Tim will helpfully point out how I can make things much more 
 efficient, and make the squares of texture actually look like clouds. Then 
 finally we'll have 3-D clouds, and everyone will wonder what the fuss was 
 about in the first place.

 So, I wouldn't stay up late waiting for CVS commit messages, but equally I 
 don't think things are quite as bad as they might seem.

 Finally, if anyone wants to help out, OSG isn't all that scary ... it is 
 certainly easier to write for than plib!

 -Stuart




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-24 Thread Vivian Meazza
Stuart Buchanan wrote

 
 --- On Wed, 23/7/08, Vivian Meazza wrote:
  3d clouds have not been ported to osg. At the current rate
  of progress - sometime in the next decade :-).
 
 Progress is marginally better than that - I've ported the code and have
 even got it to compile.
 
 I'm now at the stage of crashes-on-startup which will entertain me for
 some time while I remember how to write C++ code properly :)
 
 I expect to progress through the  random-black-squares-underneath-the-
 terrain, thirty-minutes-to-start and one-frame-per-second phases over the
 next month or so.
 
 At this point, Tim will helpfully point out how I can make things much
 more efficient, and make the squares of texture actually look like clouds.
 Then finally we'll have 3-D clouds, and everyone will wonder what the fuss
 was about in the first place.
 
 So, I wouldn't stay up late waiting for CVS commit messages, but equally I
 don't think things are quite as bad as they might seem.
 
 Finally, if anyone wants to help out, OSG isn't all that scary ... it is
 certainly easier to write for than plib!
 

Hmm ...  next decade might be a couple of months out then :-). Sounds most
encouraging. The lack of progress reports made me think that you had perhaps
been defeated by the complexities of osg.

Of course, it would be nice if we could detect the clouds on radar, like the
old ones.

Vivian




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-23 Thread Vivian Meazza
Erik Hofman wrote:


 Hi,
 
 Now that I've installed the CVS version of FlightGear I noticed a few
 things;
 
 * I don't have 3d clouds and shrub/tree cover anymore.
Is this based on shaders these days?
 
 * Rain/Snow is rendered like dots on my system (not like the screenshots
 I've seen) and doesn't originate at the
   proper location, sometimes it is even 90 degrees off.
 
 * I can't get the transparency fixed for the F-16.
Is the drawing order changed for the OSG version or is there anything
 else I could do?
 

3d clouds have not been ported to osg. At the current rate of progress -
sometime in the next decade :-).

Rain/snow should work nicely: has your osg version got all the plugins
included, and are they in the path?

Ordering transparencies is handled automatically, which can lead to
unexpected problems - I had to break the Seahawk canopy into many separate
objects to ensure that objects inside were visible, but otherwise it usually
works well.

HTH

Vivian



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-23 Thread Martin Spott
Vivian Meazza wrote:

 3d clouds have not been ported to osg. At the current rate of progress -
 sometime in the next decade :-).

Well, things would probably perform much better if not a little crowd
of only very few people - including yourself - would have been so
efficient in scaring most of the primary developers away.

It's always a nice try to blame other people after you've messed it up,

Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-23 Thread Anders Gidenstam
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Erik Hofman wrote:

 Ordering transparencies is handled automatically, which can lead to
 unexpected problems - I had to break the Seahawk canopy into many separate
 objects to ensure that objects inside were visible, but otherwise it usually
 works well.

 Odd, I keep getting that the non-transparent sections of the texture get
 transparent within FlightGear (creating a hole in the fuselage).

Hi,

If I have understood the transparency issues correctly, semi-transparent 
objects are one source of ordering problems. You could consider/try 
separating the transparent and the opaque parts into separate objects.

The work on FG/OSG has lead to major architectural improvements behind 
the scenes, e.g. having all model loading moved off the main thread.
The use of the OSG data base pager has also considerably reduced the 
memory footprint of FlightGear on my box.

Cheers,

Anders
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WWW: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-23 Thread AJ MacLeod
On Wednesday 23 July 2008 10:48:23 Erik Hofman wrote:
 * I don't have 3d clouds and shrub/tree cover anymore.
Is this based on shaders these days?
I've completely forgotten how they work, but we do have (much improved, IMO) 
tree coverage.  As Vivian mentioned, no 3d clouds or shadows at the moment, 
but I understand they are being worked on to some extent.

 * I can't get the transparency fixed for the F-16.

The F-16 looks good here - the only transparency problem I can find is with 
the star and bars markings (bottom right of f16.rgb) and that could easily be 
worked round by removing the transparency in that part of the texture.

It sounds like you're seeing something much more significant... maybe a 
screenshot would help?  What hardware are you using?

In general I've found OSG to be vastly nicer to make models for - transparency 
in particular tends to be exactly as intended where PLIB often required 
manual fiddling to get the desired effect.

Cheers,

AJ

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-23 Thread Erik Hofman
AJ MacLeod wrote:
 The F-16 looks good here - the only transparency problem I can find is with 
 the star and bars markings (bottom right of f16.rgb) and that could easily be 
 worked round by removing the transparency in that part of the texture.
 
 It sounds like you're seeing something much more significant... maybe a 
 screenshot would help?  What hardware are you using?

Screenshot, good idea:
http://home.telfort.nl/sp004798/emh/f16cockpit.jpg
http://home.telfort.nl/sp004798/emh/f16-transparent.jpg

I'm using a Gainward GeForce 4 (Ultra/750)

 In general I've found OSG to be vastly nicer to make models for - 
 transparency 
 in particular tends to be exactly as intended where PLIB often required 
 manual fiddling to get the desired effect.

Ok, as you suggested it might be a local problem then.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-23 Thread Detlef Faber
Am Mittwoch, den 23.07.2008, 14:21 +0200 schrieb Erik Hofman:
 AJ MacLeod wrote:
  The F-16 looks good here - the only transparency problem I can find is with 
  the star and bars markings (bottom right of f16.rgb) and that could easily 
  be 
  worked round by removing the transparency in that part of the texture.
  
  It sounds like you're seeing something much more significant... maybe a 
  screenshot would help?  What hardware are you using?
 
 Screenshot, good idea:
 http://home.telfort.nl/sp004798/emh/f16cockpit.jpg
 http://home.telfort.nl/sp004798/emh/f16-transparent.jpg
 
This is most likely sorting order. I usually fix this by putting the
transparent parts in a seperate xml file and load it at the very end of
my model.xml file. This works with plib too. 

Avoid transparent parts in textures. Weird things can happen.

 I'm using a Gainward GeForce 4 (Ultra/750)
 
  In general I've found OSG to be vastly nicer to make models for - 
  transparency 
  in particular tends to be exactly as intended where PLIB often required 
  manual fiddling to get the desired effect.
 
 Ok, as you suggested it might be a local problem then.
 
 Erik
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-23 Thread Erik Hofman
Detlef Faber wrote:

 This is most likely sorting order. I usually fix this by putting the
 transparent parts in a seperate xml file and load it at the very end of
 my model.xml file. This works with plib too. 
 
 Avoid transparent parts in textures. Weird things can happen.

Ok, thanks for the hint.
I agree transparency in textures isn't all that great (I've been 
fighting problems caused by them from day one) but it allows me to add 
different markings to the same aircraft and they can be of a higher 
resolution that the skin that way.

If you have any suggestions on how to do this without transparent 
textures I would be pleased to know.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG

2008-07-23 Thread Detlef Faber
Am Mittwoch, den 23.07.2008, 15:22 +0200 schrieb Erik Hofman:
 Detlef Faber wrote:
 
  This is most likely sorting order. I usually fix this by putting the
  transparent parts in a seperate xml file and load it at the very end of
  my model.xml file. This works with plib too. 
  
  Avoid transparent parts in textures. Weird things can happen.
 
 Ok, thanks for the hint.
 I agree transparency in textures isn't all that great (I've been 
 fighting problems caused by them from day one) but it allows me to add 
 different markings to the same aircraft and they can be of a higher 
 resolution that the skin that way.
 
 If you have any suggestions on how to do this without transparent 
 textures I would be pleased to know.
 
In the eurofighter I copied only the faces which will contain the
Markings to a seperate object, remapped it and put a transparent texture
containing the markings on it. 
The Drawback is, the decal faces need to be above the fuselage wing
surface to be seen.


 Erik
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-10 Thread Chris Metzler
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:45:23 + (UTC)
Martin Spott wrote:
 Chris Metzler wrote:
 
  Debian's package of freeglut is an exception to this -- the various
  freeglut problems that have manifested themselves in fgfs have been
  fixed with local patches.  I've been using freeglut 2.4 with no
  problems at all for a very long time.
 
 Hmmm, when I look at the Debian 3.1 installation on my AMD64 machine,
 it tells me:
 
 jive:~# dpkg -l | grep -i freeglut
 ii  freeglut3  2.2.0-8OpenGL Utility Toolkit
 ii  freeglut3-dev  2.2.0-8OpenGL Utility Toolkit development
 files

I'm not running 3.1 (Sarge).  I'm running etch (testing, the upcoming 4.0).
In my case, it's

} stax:~/Projects/FlightGear-0.9/source-1173 dpkg -l | grep -i freeglut
} ii  freeglut3  2.4.0-5OpenGL Utility Toolkit
} ii  freeglut3-dev  2.4.0-5OpenGL Utility Toolkit development files

-c

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-09 Thread Jon Stockill
Jon Stockill wrote:

 No, it's gcc-3.4.6, but if you're having the problem on IRIX then that is
 a pointer - slackware uses glut - not freeglut, and I suspect that IRIX
 uses glut too. Could this be caused by header differences? Has anyone else
 successfully built FlightGear-OSG on a system that doesn't ue freeglut?

I forgot to add - commenting out the #undef APIENTRY line in glut.h 
allowed me to complete the build.

I'd just like to add to the other thread - as a non-programmer sysadmin 
data junkie type I accept that there will be stages in the development 
of any large software package where it may not build - particularly when 
there are large updates in progress. I am sensible enough to keep around 
a copy of the plib tree, as well as previously built plib binaries in 
order to ensure that I can still update and test scenery.

The population of the planet with scenery models continues unabated - 
over 5000 wind turbines were added to Denmark just last week (thanks to 
Morten for the data source).

Keep up the great work guys.

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-09 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Quoting Martin Spott :

 Hi Jon, Frederic,

 Jon Stockill wrote:
  Jon Stockill wrote:

 I didn't ever recieve this first EMail 

  I forgot to add - commenting out the #undef APIENTRY line in glut.h
  allowed me to complete the build.

 I'm not still there but at least the ATC stuff compiles fine after
 following your recommendation - I guess the rest will do so as well.

 BTW, yes, I have the real glut installation on IRIX. As none of the
 OSG header files includes glut.h, wouldn't it make sense to explicitly
 define APIENTRY for example in simgear/scene/model/model.hxx on
 non-Windows systems in order to make FlightGear compile with the
 original glut as well, or is this a completely mislead idea ?

The problem is more or less identical on Windows and Unix : glut #undef APIENTRY
. If you happen to have glut included between your define and the code that use
it, either directly or indirectly, as it is the case including plib/pu.h,
you're dead. It would make more sense to apply Jon's patch, or mine as
previously suggested. Off course, this is an open trap for newcomers, just like
the freeglut 2.4 bug.

BTW: freeglut doesn't use the MS APIENTRY, but their own FGAPIENTRY, so no
conflicts there.

-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-09 Thread Curtis Olson
I should double check, but I believe I'm running glut-3.7 on my home machine and didnt' have any build problems (Fedora Core 6.)For what it's worth. The full screen (game) mode of freeglut (any version) is horribly broken under unix. SDL full screen works fine, but locks out all other heads on a multiheaded system.
Old, original glut (well 3.7 anyway) is the only version I've found that can successful go full screen with FlightGear on one display of a multiheaded system while leaving the other head(s) usable for other things (like an operator console for instance.)
Curt.On 11/9/06, Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, November 8, 2006 4:50 pm, Martin Spott wrote: This is _excellent_ because of two reasons: 1.) It releaves the bug from showing up only on IRIX/MIPSpro - where I ran into it right after the OSG port appeared in FlightGear CVS (I guess
 Frederic will remember), 2.) GCC's error message is much more informative, which should make it easier to track what happens here. I guess you're running GCC-4.x, right ? I have built FlightGear on
 Linux and FreeBSD with GCC-3.x and didn't face the effect you present to us,No, it's gcc-3.4.6, but if you're having the problem on IRIX then that isa pointer - slackware uses glut - not freeglut, and I suspect that IRIX
uses glut too. Could this be caused by header differences? Has anyone elsesuccessfully built FlightGear-OSG on a system that doesn't ue freeglut?--Jon Stockill[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-09 Thread Chris Metzler
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 09:48:51 -0600
Curtis Olson wrote:

 For what it's worth.  The full screen (game) mode of freeglut (any
 version) is horribly broken under unix.

Debian's package of freeglut is an exception to this -- the various
freeglut problems that have manifested themselves in fgfs have been
fixed with local patches.  I've been using freeglut 2.4 with no
problems at all for a very long time.

-c



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-09 Thread Curtis Olson
On 11/9/06, Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Debian's package of freeglut is an exception to this -- the variousfreeglut problems that have manifested themselves in fgfs have beenfixed with local patches.I've been using freeglut 2.4 with noproblems at all for a very long time.
Really? You can do full screen with no window manager adornments? It doesn't screw up the requested resolution and give you a weird screen and then leave you in the wrong resolution? If that's the case then the debian guys need to get their patches in upstream!
If you are just running opengl in a window freeglut has always been fine ... (except for the cursor problem in v2.4)Regards,Curt.-- Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project
http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/http://www.flightgear.org
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-09 Thread Chris Metzler
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:48:59 -0600
Curtis Olson wrote:

 Really?  You can do full screen with no window manager adornments?  It
 doesn't screw up the requested resolution and give you a weird screen
 and then leave you in the wrong resolution?

Yeah, it works absolutely fine in fullscreen/game-mode.


 If that's the case then the
 debian guys need to get their patches in upstream!

I don't know what the deal is there.  When I look in the changelog for the
Debian package, the only thing I see in there right now that seems relevant
is a patch to fix the glutSetCursor bug.  It was posted in response
to this bug, which references fgfs:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=334446sourceid=mozilla-search

and included in the Debian version.  Why this might not have made it upstream,
I dunno.  But I don't think that's what prevents game-mode/fullscreen for
most freeglut 2.4 users, is it?  Something must be different, though, because
like I said, it works absolutely fine for me.

-c


-- 
Chris Metzler   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(remove snip-me. to email)

As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I
have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-09 Thread Martin Spott
Chris Metzler wrote:

 Debian's package of freeglut is an exception to this -- the various
 freeglut problems that have manifested themselves in fgfs have been
 fixed with local patches.  I've been using freeglut 2.4 with no
 problems at all for a very long time.

Hmmm, when I look at the Debian 3.1 installation on my AMD64 machine,
it tells me:

jive:~# dpkg -l | grep -i freeglut
ii  freeglut3  2.2.0-8OpenGL Utility Toolkit
ii  freeglut3-dev  2.2.0-8OpenGL Utility Toolkit development files


Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear OSG build problem

2006-11-08 Thread Martin Spott
Hi Jon !

Jon Stockill wrote:

 if g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../src/Include -I../.. -I../../src 
 -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/X11R6/include  -g -O2 -D_REENTRANT -MT 
 atis.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/atis.Tpo -c -o atis.o atis.cxx; \
  then mv -f .deps/atis.Tpo .deps/atis.Po; else rm -f 
 .deps/atis.Tpo; exit 1; fi
 In file included from /usr/local/include/osg/Image:17,
   from /usr/local/include/osg/Texture:18,
   from /usr/local/include/osg/Texture2D:17,
   from /usr/include/simgear/scene/model/model.hxx:22,
   from AIPlane.hxx:25,
   from tower.hxx:37,
   from ATCmgr.hxx:34,
   from atis.cxx:50:
 /usr/local/include/osg/BufferObject:173: error: expected `)' before '*' token

This is _excellent_ because of two reasons:
1.) It releaves the bug from showing up only on IRIX/MIPSpro - where I
ran into it right after the OSG port appeared in FlightGear CVS (I
guess Frederic will remember),
2.) GCC's error message is much more informative, which should make it
easier to track what happens here.

I guess you're running GCC-4.x, right ? I have built FlightGear on
Linux and FreeBSD with GCC-3.x and didn't face the effect you present
to us,

Martin.
-- 
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