Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 15:16 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > Here: > > http://pastebin.ca/2018386 Those files shouldn't have ended up there in the first place and definitely should not be linked against. Sorry for the fuzz. Erik -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
Erik wrote > -Original Message- > From: Hofman [mailto:e...@ehofman.com] > Sent: 13 December 2010 08:54 > To: vivian.mea...@lineone.net; FlightGear developers discussions > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for > advertising to attract sound engineers > > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 22:26 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > > > OK - got that - eventually. But it doesn't compile under MSVC9. Is it > worth > > making it do so? How is it meant to work? > > I can't find anything on why it shouldn't compile, could you provide an > error message? > Here: http://pastebin.ca/2018386 Vivian -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 22:26 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > OK - got that - eventually. But it doesn't compile under MSVC9. Is it worth > making it do so? How is it meant to work? I can't find anything on why it shouldn't compile, could you provide an error message? Erik -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 22:26 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > OK - got that - eventually. But it doesn't compile under MSVC9. Is it worth > making it do so? How is it meant to work? Odd, I'll take a look at it. In the mean time, someone filed a bug that suggests that he is using Creative drivers' Generic Hardware backend which seems to overreact in Doppler effect. Which might indicate that Creative has fixed this problem in recent versions of OpenAL. Could you make sure you are using the newest OpenAL package for you platform? Erik -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
Erik wrote > > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 16:36 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > > Erik wrote: > > > > > advertising to attract sound engineers > > > > > > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 11:01 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > > > > Software provided by Creative Labs Inc. > > > > > > Go figure. I've updated the test in SimGear, could you try again? > > > > > > > Can't see anything to do with sound or authored by you in Git > Simgear/next > > > > Am I missing something? > > It's in simgear/sound: > > 14:07 > ehofman committed f83278b > > Update the bad-doppler test and simplify it to only test for bad > platforms. > OK - got that - eventually. But it doesn't compile under MSVC9. Is it worth making it do so? How is it meant to work? Vivian -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 16:36 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > Erik wrote: > > > advertising to attract sound engineers > > > > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 11:01 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > > > Software provided by Creative Labs Inc. > > > > Go figure. I've updated the test in SimGear, could you try again? > > > > Can't see anything to do with sound or authored by you in Git Simgear/next > > Am I missing something? It's in simgear/sound: 14:07 ehofman committed f83278b Update the bad-doppler test and simplify it to only test for bad platforms. Erik -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
Hi, > Erik wrote > > > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 10:07 +, Vivian Meazza > wrote: > > > > > A long time ago I had a very nice and realistic > Doppler effect on the > > Merlin > > > engine. I haven't been able to recreate this > after recent sound engine > > > updates. Might be something wrong with the OpenAL > setup here, but I > > would > > > very much like it back again. > > > > > > I would certainly support an overhaul of the > sound engine, at least to > > > establish where it is going wrong. Perhaps it > can't be improved, but I'd > > > like to know that too. > > > > Doppler has always been a problem since most > implementations of OpenAL > > are bad. Creative based implementations (like > OpenAL-Soft) are the > > worst. The previous implementation tried to prevent > this by trying to > > generate the Doppler effect ourselves but with little > luck in most > > cases. I've added a few exceptions in the current > implementation trying > > to get it right this time but I might need to rethink > the way it is > > handled since the list of exceptions tend to grow. > > > > Could you give me the output of fgfs > --show-sound-devices > Here it is: > > Software provided by Creative Labs Inc. > > No. Device > 0. "Generic Hardware" > 1. "Generic Software" > > Vivian > The same here. I filed a report at the bug-tracker (issue 190): http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=190&sort=-id It does sound like that for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg-sXuNQav4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fF_mUkgUA8 Heiko -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
Erik wrote: > advertising to attract sound engineers > > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 11:01 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > > Software provided by Creative Labs Inc. > > Go figure. I've updated the test in SimGear, could you try again? > Can't see anything to do with sound or authored by you in Git Simgear/next Am I missing something? Vivian -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 09:53 +, Alexander Barrett wrote: > What I should have said is that I'd like to add a lot more functionality to > the way in which we use and hear sounds within FlightGear. Just like a lot of > things, it won't be to everyones taste, but just as an example I'd like to > see an aircraft parked at a small grassfield strip, with the engine off and > canopy open and to be able to hear the wind blowing through the trees, if > there's enough wind at ground level to be blowing through trees. Who knows, > perhaps a bit of bird song? > > Sitting on the deck of a moving carrier with engines off and canopy open I > think we should be able to hear the throb of the carriers engines and, > possibly, the crashing of the waves. > > On an airliner I think it would be good to be able to have the option of > hearing the cabin briefings during pushback. Thinking about this some more this would probably require adding sound effects to AI models and maybe to scenery sweet spots. Bot are not yet implemented but the sound manager is designed to be able to do so. Erik -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 11:01 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > Software provided by Creative Labs Inc. Go figure. I've updated the test in SimGear, could you try again? Erik -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 09:53 +, Alexander Barrett wrote: > Erik, > > Sorry if my reply wasn't clear, like I said I was in a bit of a rush, > probably should have waited until later. > I have no intention, at this stage, of changing the entire sound engine. > > What I should have said is that I'd like to add a lot more functionality to > the way in which we use and hear sounds within FlightGear. Just like a lot of > things, it won't be to everyones taste, but just as an example I'd like to > see an aircraft parked at a small grassfield strip, with the engine off and > canopy open and to be able to hear the wind blowing through the trees, if > there's enough wind at ground level to be blowing through trees. Who knows, > perhaps a bit of bird song? > > Sitting on the deck of a moving carrier with engines off and canopy open I > think we should be able to hear the throb of the carriers engines and, > possibly, the crashing of the waves. Ah ok, thanks for the explanation. When someone with your knowledge says he wants to improve the sound engine it makes me curious to what is missing :) No problem. Erik -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
Erik, Sorry if my reply wasn't clear, like I said I was in a bit of a rush, probably should have waited until later. I have no intention, at this stage, of changing the entire sound engine. What I should have said is that I'd like to add a lot more functionality to the way in which we use and hear sounds within FlightGear. Just like a lot of things, it won't be to everyones taste, but just as an example I'd like to see an aircraft parked at a small grassfield strip, with the engine off and canopy open and to be able to hear the wind blowing through the trees, if there's enough wind at ground level to be blowing through trees. Who knows, perhaps a bit of bird song? Sitting on the deck of a moving carrier with engines off and canopy open I think we should be able to hear the throb of the carriers engines and, possibly, the crashing of the waves. On an airliner I think it would be good to be able to have the option of hearing the cabin briefings during pushback. I was just making the point (I admit now, rather badly) that I think there could be so much more that sounds add to FlightGear, than they currently do, and that I'd like to try and make: - it easier to do so - a repository of GPL files that can be used by those wishing to create new sounds - more widely known that sounds can add something to the experience. I already have a small repository of files for use which I've published on the forums (standard Boeing and Airbus cockpit sounds, some generic click, swish, buzz etc style sounds. I've also created a GPL Spoken Voice generator which produces the kind of "Warning" and Altitude Callout type stuff that some people might like to add to their airliners, and puts them in a little Wav file, then outputs the bits ready to copying into a sound.xml file. Which I'd like to think is useful to some, and will encourage them to experiment with adding sounds to their aircraft. Hope i've explained my intentions a little better now. On 12 Dec 2010, at 09:30, Erik Hofman wrote: > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 07:50 +, Alexander Barrett wrote: >> Sorry to jump in here quickly, don't have time to formulate a full reply now >> as have to pop out but I shall later. >> >> It has always, since I joined the FG community, been my goal to overhaul the >> FG sound engine. > > I assume you know this has been done prior to FlightGear 2.0? If so then > I'm not entirely why the sound engine need to change again. > > Erik > > > -- > Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, > new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, > OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
Erik wrote > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 10:07 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > > > A long time ago I had a very nice and realistic Doppler effect on the > Merlin > > engine. I haven't been able to recreate this after recent sound engine > > updates. Might be something wrong with the OpenAL setup here, but I > would > > very much like it back again. > > > > I would certainly support an overhaul of the sound engine, at least to > > establish where it is going wrong. Perhaps it can't be improved, but I'd > > like to know that too. > > Doppler has always been a problem since most implementations of OpenAL > are bad. Creative based implementations (like OpenAL-Soft) are the > worst. The previous implementation tried to prevent this by trying to > generate the Doppler effect ourselves but with little luck in most > cases. I've added a few exceptions in the current implementation trying > to get it right this time but I might need to rethink the way it is > handled since the list of exceptions tend to grow. > > Could you give me the output of fgfs --show-sound-devices Here it is: Software provided by Creative Labs Inc. No. Device 0. "Generic Hardware" 1. "Generic Software" Vivian -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 10:07 +, Vivian Meazza wrote: > A long time ago I had a very nice and realistic Doppler effect on the Merlin > engine. I haven't been able to recreate this after recent sound engine > updates. Might be something wrong with the OpenAL setup here, but I would > very much like it back again. > > I would certainly support an overhaul of the sound engine, at least to > establish where it is going wrong. Perhaps it can't be improved, but I'd > like to know that too. Doppler has always been a problem since most implementations of OpenAL are bad. Creative based implementations (like OpenAL-Soft) are the worst. The previous implementation tried to prevent this by trying to generate the Doppler effect ourselves but with little luck in most cases. I've added a few exceptions in the current implementation trying to get it right this time but I might need to rethink the way it is handled since the list of exceptions tend to grow. Could you give me the output of fgfs --show-sound-devices Erik -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
Erik wrote > -Original Message- > From: Hofman [mailto:e...@ehofman.com] > Sent: 12 December 2010 09:30 > To: FlightGear developers discussions > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for > advertising to attract sound engineers > > On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 07:50 +, Alexander Barrett wrote: > > Sorry to jump in here quickly, don't have time to formulate a full reply > now as have to pop out but I shall later. > > > > It has always, since I joined the FG community, been my goal to overhaul > the FG sound engine. > > I assume you know this has been done prior to FlightGear 2.0? If so then > I'm not entirely why the sound engine need to change again. > A long time ago I had a very nice and realistic Doppler effect on the Merlin engine. I haven't been able to recreate this after recent sound engine updates. Might be something wrong with the OpenAL setup here, but I would very much like it back again. I would certainly support an overhaul of the sound engine, at least to establish where it is going wrong. Perhaps it can't be improved, but I'd like to know that too. Vivian -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 07:50 +, Alexander Barrett wrote: > Sorry to jump in here quickly, don't have time to formulate a full reply now > as have to pop out but I shall later. > > It has always, since I joined the FG community, been my goal to overhaul the > FG sound engine. I assume you know this has been done prior to FlightGear 2.0? If so then I'm not entirely why the sound engine need to change again. Erik -- Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Suggestion: Using new release for advertising to attract sound engineers
Sorry to jump in here quickly, don't have time to formulate a full reply now as have to pop out but I shall later. It has always, since I joined the FG community, been my goal to overhaul the FG sound engine. My commercial background is as a professional Flight Simulator Sound Developer. In years gone by I co founded what was the worlds largest (at the time) sound studio dedicated to aviation sounds and recordings. We worked mainly on the MSFS platform, and some other professional simulators. Including the FSX Acceleration release. I've got literally several Tb of raw recordings on many, many hard disks and backup media, all of which I own full rights to and am more than happy to release the majority of it as GPL. I am right now going through and cataloging it all, something which has taken many months to do. I have a full set of professional recording equipment which has been bought specifically for use in an aviation environment, as well as many contacts at airports around the world who have let me record there previously. In the past I have also coded entire sound engines for games, including things like implementations of "sound cones" and environmental triggers (running streams/waterfalls/road noises/airport background noises) For a few months myself and another professional sound engineer (although only a recent flight sim convert) have been working in the background trying to enhance the default FG sounds considerably, and adding a lot more new ones as well. I just wanted you to know that there are some people out there working on it, and it isn't entirely "dead" in FG. If I get time I shall post a small teaser video of the work so far, and my ideas and implementations on the coding side too, only if anyone is interested of course. All the best, Alex On 11 Dec 2010, at 19:25, kreuzritter2000 wrote: > Hello to everyone, > > Today i had an idea about how to get more people with knowledge about > sound effects. > > So far as i can see this, the thing flightgear lacks most at the moment > is a wide variety of sound effects and sound files. > FlightGear has many developers that work on the source code, 3d models, > scenery, textures and visual effects but the amount of people that is > working on sound files is very small. > And one of the major reason why this is that way is in my opinion the > reason, that people who has that knowledge about sound engineering or > the abtility to record aviation specific sounds don't know, that their > knowledge could be usefull for FlightGear. Most people still think, that > creating simulations/games is only something about programming and this > is, as you all know, untrue. > > So to change that i suggest to use the next relase for advertising to > specificaly attract people with that knowledge and the capability to > record sound effects and create them. > This could be done by putting a text like "We urgently need people with > knowledge how to record and create sound effects for FlightGear." > directly on the splash screen of FlightGear, so people who has that > knowledge can see that when they start FlightGear to fly/play. > > Of course using the splash screen for this could also be used to attract > other people with other special knowledge about special topics where > FlightGear still needs developers. > The topic sound effects and sound files is only one suggestion that came > into my mind. > > When it comes to recording sound effects especially people who are > working on airports or with airplanes could be very usefull, because > they work directly at a place where sounds, that might be needed for a > flight simulator, can be heard and much more important recorded. > > > BTW, the realase notes itself could be also very used for advertising to > attract new people for topics of development where persons with special > outstanding abilities in this area are still needed. > I think when news websites write about a new relase of flightgear they > will also add informations like "FlightGear project is looking for > people to create sound files.." when they know that, that the FlightGear > project is really looking for such people. So to let news magazins know > that, putting this in the release notes/announcement would be quite > helpful. > > > > What do you think about using the splash screen and new version > announcments for advertising to attract new developers? > > > Best Regards, > Oliver C. > > > > > -- > Oracle to DB2 Conversion Guide: Learn learn about native support for PL/SQL, > new data types, scalar functions, improved concurrency, built-in packages, > OCI, SQL*Plus, data movement tools, best practices and more. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdev2dev > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinf
