Re: FLUXLIST: (I) a few thoughts about moderation, ownership the originsof FLUXLIST
At 05:35 AM 01/01/03 -0800, -IID42 Kandinskij @27+ wrote: Boredom is a self-inflicted knee-jerk. Yup. And you're the jerk. John Blower 10 Wycherley Close Blackheath London SE3 7QH Tel: 07986 401490 http://www.feniks.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
FLUXLIST: Fluxus Party
Hi, all If I were throwing a Fluxus party - I'd inviteFluxus artists, historians, critics and poets, anyone who wanted to learn more about that movement, who wanted serious discussion, who were searching for the truth, who wanted to play with Fluxus ideas, understand them, extend them, dissect them, dance with them. And I wouldn't mind if people just came along to find out more. Or were just curious. Or wanted to start a new Fluxus movement. Or thought Fluxus was alive and well. Or thought Fluxus was dead and buried and wanted to pray the night upon its grave. Or if some people just wanted to listen to the music, try the cheese and little snacks and admire the wallpaper, that would be fine by me. I wouldn't mind the geeks who got together in groups of two or three and talked in a special techno-language. I wouldn't mind that some people talked about non-Fluxus things now and again. Or offered to take the dog for a walk. Or had furtive sex in the bedrooms. I wouldn't mind if people voiced ideas different to my own. In fact I'd welcome that. I wouldn't mind if people left early or stayed until the end. But hey, I'd kick out any obnoxious drunks or troublemakers. I'd kick out anyone trying to start a fight. Why the hell not? If it were my party... XXX Roger
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
i'm in. --- Owen Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I second and third Josh's and Melissa's ideas about a second box for/of the fluxlist. I am also happy to help out in any way needed along with contributing. It seems to me that there are two aspects that would be nice to work into this project: 1. a collection of scores since there have been several nice ones posted to the list, so this could be a compilation of those already posted as well as new ones; 2. More along the lines of Melissa's idea of a box of multiples or the like (that is what you were thinking wasn't it Melissa?) I have more ideas, but let's see what others think. . . . Owen __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2
Dear Josh, Melissa and Owen, the second box it's a great idea: i'm with you. I'd like to include some scores (as Owen said). So, let's work! Walter Cianciusi
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
I'm in, but I joined the list after the first FluxList box so I'm sketchy on the details (if any). I adore the FluxList for Dummies idea, in any format. M -- From: Josh Ronsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2? Date: Wed, Jan 1, 2003, 9:44 PM Friends, Is it not time to start thinking of a second FluxList Box? I treasure the first one and I love showing it to visitors. While recently thinking of the Fluxus for Dummies book that will never get finished, I thought that a FluxList box is a project I could tend to completion. Who is in it with me? Should we have the same parameters as last time? I have not began to look for boxes. I would prefer that the theme of the box be kept free (i.e. open to any interpretation), but I would like to suggest two titles: a) Box #2: FluxList for Dummies b) FluxList Box for Peace However, everything is open for debate. -Josh Ronsen in Austin, Texas Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
Same here; count me in, if someone can organize it. thanks, Joihn At 03:27 AM 1/2/2003 +, you wrote: I second the thought of a Second Fluxlist Box the first one was great, and I'm getting into doing multiples. So I'd participate, but can't offer to do more. Anyone else? Melissa McCarthy Hours: whimsical or by appointment Adult, maybe; grown-up, never! [EMAIL PROTECTED] The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*. __ Dr. John M. Bennett Curator, Avant Writing Collection Rare Books Manuscripts Library The Ohio State University Libraries 1858 Neil Av Mall Columbus, OH 43210 USA (614) 292-8114 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
FLUXLIST: Re: Re: small black Fluxus book
Owen, What it did have was a copy of series of letters between Maciunas and Lindbergh and this is what I would really like to see/ have. I forgot to ask you - who was Lindbergh? -Mindaugas
Re: Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
Same for me. I'm new here, so it would be great to get some details about FluxList box #1. -Mindaugas I'm in, but I joined the list after the first FluxList box so I'm sketchy on the details (if any).
Re: FLUXLIST: Haiku i love JohnBennett
As it happens i enjoyed 2 shots of mezcal last night - thank you, artsnants an early book of mine was titled Ant Path Onvoid, John At 12:47 AM 12/31/2002 -0500, you wrote: o John how I love you credenza ottoman credenza Dickinson pond frozen I I cry to you I cry for Marian so deeply so I cry for Patricias but not like Dickinson pond oh god its cold and the stars always clear you can count on them and that so circular and rotating around and around I I am an artist if it kills me it delays the effects when you John in snoow five shots of tequila downtown Mt. Clemens because they still let five shots happen in the cold on New Years eve downtown-- then fireworks yes yrs yedear death you cant possibly know how cold red bricks feel much love and I will call my mom in Mt clemens for New Years so I I will do what fuxus asks of me and Ty and I are getting a dog just to spite my husband anddd fuck you!@!!! __ Dr. John M. Bennett Curator, Avant Writing Collection Rare Books Manuscripts Library The Ohio State University Libraries 1858 Neil Av Mall Columbus, OH 43210 USA (614) 292-8114 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
Re: FLUXLIST: stupid death
Cool project, Bibiana - frightening that it almost came to its completion, tho. Whew, o ay chihuahua... John I will send something At 07:10 PM 12/30/2002 -0800, you wrote: it's funny -and scary- how people can die by the most stupid accidents: last couple of days we had dinner a few friends and I here at home, next morning we couldn't wake up.. can you guess why? (it wasn't the food...) the gas from the stove was open for more than 10 hours my house smelled like garbage truck, it didn't happend anything worst but our dizziness -so far. anyway, it's - I think- a good reminder to participate at my until my death project: http://home.att.net/~amcnet/untilmydeath.html be good, check your stoves at night, at morning, at every hour!!! *** BIBIANA PADILLA MALTOS AVTEXTFEST general coordinator Paseo de Vista Hermosa #625 Mexicali, B.C., 21240 MEXICO 233 Paulin Ave. PMB. 7263 Calexico, Ca., 92231-2646 U.S.A. _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 __ Dr. John M. Bennett Curator, Avant Writing Collection Rare Books Manuscripts Library The Ohio State University Libraries 1858 Neil Av Mall Columbus, OH 43210 USA (614) 292-8114 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
josh, what a great idea! i was looking at our fluxbox the other day and thinking how interesting it would be to do another one. Definitely, count me in. just what the doctor ordered; positive energy. i scrolled through some of the posts from the fluxbox ( i have them in a file) and it seemed that parameters and such developed very naturally. the experience i had doing the address book was so good and i feel i enjoyed it more than i had expected. there are alot of good folk here; serious artists teachers students and others who enjoy the fluxus spirit. Josh Ronsen wrote: Friends, Is it not time to start thinking of a second FluxList Box? I treasure the first one and I love showing it to visitors. While recently thinking of the Fluxus for Dummies book that will never get finished, I thought that a FluxList box is a project I could tend to completion. Who is in it with me? Should we have the same parameters as last time? I have not began to look for boxes. I would prefer that the theme of the box be kept free (i.e. open to any interpretation), but I would like to suggest two titles: a) Box #2: FluxList for Dummies b) FluxList Box for Peace However, everything is open for debate. -Josh Ronsen in Austin, Texas Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
same situation for me(i'm in still!) *** BIBIANA PADILLA MALTOS AVTEXTFEST general coordinator Paseo de Vista Hermosa #625 Mexicali, B.C., 21240 MEXICO 233 Paulin Ave. PMB. 7263 Calexico, Ca., 92231-2646 U.S.A. Original Message Follows From: meryl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2? Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 08:07:31 -0500 I'm in, but I joined the list after the first FluxList box so I'm sketchy on the details (if any). I adore the FluxList for Dummies idea, in any format. M -- From: Josh Ronsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2? Date: Wed, Jan 1, 2003, 9:44 PM Friends, Is it not time to start thinking of a second FluxList Box? I treasure the first one and I love showing it to visitors. While recently thinking of the Fluxus for Dummies book that will never get finished, I thought that a FluxList box is a project I could tend to completion. Who is in it with me? Should we have the same parameters as last time? I have not began to look for boxes. I would prefer that the theme of the box be kept free (i.e. open to any interpretation), but I would like to suggest two titles: a) Box #2: FluxList for Dummies b) FluxList Box for Peace However, everything is open for debate. -Josh Ronsen in Austin, Texas Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
I'd be interested in this too. -- My (as yet unlaunched) seed exchange has been expanded to include an (unused/forgotten) key exchange. Just something else to keep in mind. ;)) /:b
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
Hi Josh, Just got your email about what it was we were going to exchange. I'll send something. I'm also in on the second box idea. Perhaps we should wait awhile until Allen cleans house. Ha! -Don _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
FLUXLIST: mIEKAL aND
To the organizers of Flux Box 2: MIEKAL aND wants to participate, too. So keep him in the loop. [And let's see if we can get him back on the list...I think he is also one of the true children/grandchildren of Fluxus and a truly interesting force in that sector of the universe] Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 06:03:54 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]:Non-member submission from [mIEKAL aND [EMAIL PROTECTED]] Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:07:56 -0600 Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2? From: mIEKAL aND [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I too am interested but I missed all the details. mIEKAL On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 07:59 AM, John M. Bennett wrote: Same here; count me in, if someone can organize it. thanks, Joihn
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
perfect way to start the new year, yes. please include me and i'd have to ditto everything meryl says here: I'm in, but I joined the list after the first FluxList box so I'm sketchy onthe details (if any).I adore the FluxList for Dummies idea, in any format. NBB (nancy burr)
FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #1
Meryl (and any one else), here's the nifty site that Owen Smith created for Fluxlist Box #1. In my opinion/sensibilities this is one of the coolest things that WE have ever done via Fluxlist...and something in tune with the original Fluxus. Sol Nte and Owen Smith led the Fluxlist Box #1 project. http://www.fluxus.org/FLUXLIST/box1/boxfram.html I'm in, but I joined the list after the first FluxList box so I'm sketchy on the details (if any). I adore the FluxList for Dummies idea, in any format. M
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
Brad, 1. I am not sure that this list is going to continue as an OPEN list (I am going to temporarily close it to new subscriptions--to prevent people like Eric Anderson from re-joining), and 2. if it continues as an OPEN list it is going to be under more active management and intervention (i.e., we're going to kick off people who are only here to put us down, people who are ONLY here to promote themselves, and anyone who is overly contentious). All tough judgment calls, but I am prepared to take the responsibility for making them. We're going to be strongly wrong rather than weakly right about this stuff. I'm acting as if we/Fluxlist has six months to live and six months to do some things...to go somewhere...that we don't have time to be patient with negative energy and grinding axes. Roger Stevens nailed it, I think, in his recent post, Fluxus Party. I hope people who do not agree with these changes will simply leave the list. Go find or start another one. Email discussion groups are not a limited resource. Allen Yes. As I have also stated backchannel: it is wrong to exclude people from an open list. /:b On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Bertrand Clavez wrote: Dear Allen, I can't believe you've thrown away these fluxlisters! and if this is the case, I can't agree with such a choice. Tell me that I'm wrong in my inderstanding of this post. Best Bertrand
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2?
On 1/2/03 1:39 AM, Owen Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I second and third Josh's and Melissa's ideas about a second box for/of the fluxlist. I am also happy to help out in any way needed along with contributing. It seems to me that there are two aspects that would be nice to work into this project: 1. a collection of scores since there have been several nice ones posted to the list, so this could be a compilation of those already posted as well as new ones; 2. More along the lines of Melissa's idea of a box of multiples or the like (that is what you were thinking wasn't it Melissa?) I have more ideas, but let's see what others think. . . . Owen I fourth it. I'd like to do a multiple text/image thing this spring . . . AK
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
On 1/2/03 8:30 AM, Bertrand Clavez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bertrand and all-- Allen had always resisted moderating the list, even when the nastiness of these particular people threw away some of the most interestng and productive people on the list. Now, perhaps your notion of fluxus is double-dosed with negative capability, particularly corrosive, cruel, and self-obsessed. If so, I would encourage a new fluxlist to form, this one inviting mutual insult. However, it seems to be the rough consensus on this particular fluxlist that self-obsessed insulting posts that mechanistically respond to any utterance with a curdled version of same are not desirable on a daily basis. So Allen is hailed for his chucking of these types. Repetitive insult is a form of throwing away of the person so insulted, and deserves similar treatment. AK Dear Allen, I can't believe you've thrown away these fluxlisters! and if this is the case, I can't agree with such a choice. Tell me that I'm wrong in my inderstanding of this post. Best Bertrand - Original Message - From: allen bukoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:15 AM Subject: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR Open the windows, let some stale air out, let some fresh air in. I swear I don't know what has gotten into me...abusing power like this. Maybe 2003 is a time to renew Fluxlist. Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:04:12 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Majordomo results: remove eric anderson st auby tamas xx remove FLUXLIST [EMAIL PROTECTED] Succeeded. xx remove FLUXLIST [EMAIL PROTECTED] Succeeded.
Re: FLUXLIST: mIEKAL aND
On 1/2/03 9:57 AM, allen bukoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most certainly yes! I keep hoping to get to one of the events there--it's just over in Wisc. But a sort of distant part of Wisc. . . . AK To the organizers of Flux Box 2: MIEKAL aND wants to participate, too. So keep him in the loop. [And let's see if we can get him back on the list...I think he is also one of the true children/grandchildren of Fluxus and a truly interesting force in that sector of the universe] Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 06:03:54 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]:Non-member submission from [mIEKAL aND [EMAIL PROTECTED]] Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 08:07:56 -0600 Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2? From: mIEKAL aND [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I too am interested but I missed all the details. mIEKAL On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 07:59 AM, John M. Bennett wrote: Same here; count me in, if someone can organize it. thanks, Joihn
Re: FLUXLIST: Censor and Owner Ship
On 1/2/03 10:06 AM, Eric Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what has been going on while this buckoff had shut me down? Eric, you've never cared about anything on this list but yourself, your own contribution in the semi=historic past, and your hatreds. So why should you care about anything that happens here now? No one mentioned your name, if that's what you mean . . . AK
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
On 1/2/03 10:08 AM, { brad brace } [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Brad, it's bad to habitually insult people on an open list. Speech is a type
of behavior; it should be taken seriously. If it is not--it it is pure
selfindulgence-- then one should not be forced to listen to it.
AK
Yes. As I have also stated backchannel: it is wrong to
exclude people from an open list.
/:b
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Bertrand Clavez wrote:
Dear Allen,
I can't believe you've thrown away these fluxlisters!
and if this is the case, I can't agree with such a choice.
Tell me that I'm wrong in my inderstanding of this post.
Best
Bertrand
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes. As I have also stated backchannel: it is wrong to exclude people from an open list. /:b On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Bertrand Clavez wrote: Dear Allen, I can't believe you've thrown away these fluxlisters! and if this is the case, I can't agree with such a choice. Tell me that I'm wrong in my inderstanding of this post. Best Bertrand Allen and others on the list - I must add my voice to these as well (to Bertrand and Brad)- I am concerned about some of these actions Allen and although I feel it is OK to remove someone who is a problem for/to the health of the list, I think we have to be cautious not to remove some one just because we do not like them or that they do not share our views. As some one else mentioned healthy disagreement is in fact quite good, we just have to be careful how we make this determination as to what is and is not healthy. Although I think that your first removal was justified, I don't agree with the others . . . in fact I find it quite odd that the one (?) remaining original participant in Fluxus on the fluxlist, Eric Andersen, has been removed. . . I know that Eric can seem confrontive at times, but I have to say so what? He is truly committed to what he believes (that is a good thing), you always know where he stands, does interesting work as an artist, is really a nice guy and has lived and worked Fluxus for forty years - all of which I know I can learn from and I am sure others as well. Just a few thoughts. . . . Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: mIEKAL aND
all this time I thot Dreamtime Village was in the center of the universe. (Just for the record, I hadnt been kicked off, but had posted mistakenly from an unsubbed address.) as for the box, what is used for a box what are the dimensions? mIEKAL On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 11:00 AM, Ann Klefstad wrote: On 1/2/03 9:57 AM, allen bukoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most certainly yes! I keep hoping to get to one of the events there--it's just over in Wisc. But a sort of distant part of Wisc. . . . AK
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST BOX #2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The results of the first box can be found here: http://www.fluxus.org/FLUXLIST/box1/boxfram.html I think each person made 50 editions of a work and contributed $5 to cover postage and materials (the box). Everyone got 1 box with one of each submission. I do not remember what happened to the leftover boxes (if there were any). Josh has got it right - there were 50 copies made (although we only ended up with 47 full boxes since some contributions were not a full 50) with each participant contributing fifty copies of their contribution, Sol designed the label based on the online discussion of that to call the project (all the possible names are on the label), I got the boxes and assembled them wit the works and mailed out one to each contributor. The remaining boxes were sent to some public collections (archives like the Tate, the poetry collection in Buffalo, MOMA Library) and a few of the remaining were given out to requests (like Princess Petal). And I then made the web site as a way of archiving/indexing the contributions for the box as well as sharing it with those that were not able to participate. I am willing to organize again, although I am also more than willing to pass the mantel on if someone else wants to take on the role of organizer for the project, Josh? Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: mIEKAL aND
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: as for the box, what is used for a box what are the dimensions? mIEKAL - This is a good place to start since it sets the nature and dimensions of the contributions (nothing that is 10 foot long). since I make a lot of multiples my self I have a lot of good sources for boxes and containers, the main issue is cost (times the number of boxes produced) we can go with anything from cardboard at less than .50c per box to metal display boxes at about 20.00 each. the boxes we used for the first Fluxlist box were purchased from Staples - they were school pencil boxes that they were closing out so they cost about 1.50 each. Owen
FLUXLIST: more Ligeti stories
A concurrent preoccupation was a strong influence of Duchampian dadaism. His 000, a satire of John Cage, has been described as the briefest composition ever written, and Cage is said to have been deeply offended; The Future of Music (1961) is scored for a mute speaker in front of an audience. But the most celebrated piece in this vein, the Poème symphonique of 1962, for 100 metronomes, is both a provocation and a peculiarly plastic expression of machinery gone awry, an idea incorporated compositionally in several works to memorable effect, the most famous example being the Meccanico movement of the Chamber Concerto, written some nine years later. -from http://www.sospeso.com/contents/composers_artists/ligeti.html The premiere [of Poeme symphonique] in Holland in l963 caused a great scandal. -from http://www.binaural.com/binnews2.html According to the Sony web page, Ligeti worked at the West German Radio electronic studio from 1957 to 1959, which makes sense as his two electronic works date from this time. Paik was there from 1958 to 1963. There doesn't seem to be much info online about the interestion of these two artists. -Josh Ronsen in Austin, Texas Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com
FLUXLIST: Spread shirT
Spread shirT Spread st reaming sugar keep bread face dangled, long and dribble couch, heat wind as lag, field boot trouble save, wash tangle in the wake seam n gush trail folded past call free itch batch (mud) dancing in the cage burnt shirT John M. Bennett __ Dr. John M. Bennett Curator, Avant Writing Collection Rare Books Manuscripts Library The Ohio State University Libraries 1858 Neil Av Mall Columbus, OH 43210 USA (614) 292-8114 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Owen, these are excuses. Can you name one worthwhile thing you have learned from Eric Anderson's posts to FLUXLIST? Can you produce one even minimally constructive post? His entire output on this list has been to 1. maintain his assertion that no one in real Fluxus considers Ken Friedman to be legitimate, and 2. that Fluxlist is a foolish enterprise, has nothing to do with Fluxus, and that those of us who participate are fools. Why would anyone even want to maintain membership on an email discussion list when this is their sole agenda? Eric Anderson is not a really nice guy, not on Fluxlist. Show me one nice guy post. Show me one post where he has ever contributed anything interesting or useful or beyond himself to this list, and I will stand corrected. I don't care if Eric was at Weisbaden in 1962 or if he has been involved in his own strain of Fluxus for 40 years. That does not excuse his behavior on this list and how he has treated others. He should be ashamed of himself. Sincerely, Allen Allen - I understand your point of view fully and I can't say that I disagree with you -I know that Eric has been hard on a number of people - yourself being one and Ken certainly being the other. So I do understand, but I just look at it another way. BUT the real point I wanted to make is not just about Eric, but about caution as we start to move from an open list to a more controlled one. . . . Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
Speech is a type of behavior; it should be taken seriously. If it is not--it it is pure selfindulgence-- then one should not be forced to listen to it. Thanks Ann. Very very true. And overly repetitive insulting behavior recently became unbearable and distracting. Also feel I'll get more out of a mildly censored list than an abusive free-for-all. Though I feel a tinge of guilt in the sudden exclusivity of this list. (Closed to new members)
FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2
i want to be a part of this! box1 definitely a unique collection. i could eventually help with the website too, if needed.
FLUXLIST: new members
Though I feel a tinge of guilt in the sudden exclusivity of this list. (Closed to new members) closed to new members is going to be a temporary state
RE: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
Eric IPUT also? i don't think that this is good 2003 AD On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 19:15:13 -0500, allen bukoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe 2003 is a time to renew Fluxlist. Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:04:12 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Majordomo results: remove eric anderson st auby tamas
FLUXLIST: Owen?
Owen, i'm curious if my e-mail gets to you as i send it, because I keep getting error e-mail message that your *.edu server can't receive my mail. Or they come to you with the delay? Did you get my last reply? Bests, Mindaugas
FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST-digest V3 #376
Hurrah for us all! Anne, Owen, Allen, and all to sanity again. May we all have a more peaceful 2003! jah Judith A. Hoffberg Umbrella P.O. Box 3640 Santa Monica, CA 90408 http://colophon.com/ediblebooks http://colophon.com/journal tel: (310)399-1146, fax: 399-5070 Let a smile be your umbrella!
Re: FLUXLIST: Owen?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Owen, i'm curious if my e-mail gets to you as i send it, because I keep getting error e-mail message that your *.edu server can't receive my mail. Or they come to you with the delay? Did you get my last reply? Mindaugas - Some seem to be coming through, but I think that some are not - are you sending to me at this email or at [EMAIL PROTECTED]? The server has been shut down here a couple of time recently for service so that might be the problem, I am not sure. The last message I received from you was dated January 1st and it had your mailing address (I will send the book out tomorrow to you). Now on to your two points - the person I wanted to refer to is not Lindbergh (this was somehow a spelling checker mistake) but Landsbergis - and I am sure that this is the correspondence that you mentioned in the book looking into Fire and this is I am sure the book that i am looking for not the Mekas book (which I have a copy of in French, it was just published with a film by Mekas) - is it possible to get a copy of the book? I do not want to ask too much, but if you would translate the letters that would be a great help - although I have a friend here who could also do it. But either way I would also like a copy of the whole book as well for my library . All the best for the New Year, Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST BOX #2
Lots of fluxivity lately! I like the 2nd box idea the last one was fun. cecil Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FLUXLIST: brain
H, IPUT always knew that allen bukoff's left brain doesn't know what his right brain does. That's why we said after the arbitrary expulsion of G.threeyersago.com: use the net for electric vote! Democracy will teach bukoff's left and right brain to obey the law. Please, Fluxlisters, bring back to the list Kandinskij, our shiny-shiny cock! Let's vote! Thank you! H, a101a
Re: FLUXLIST: open email to everyone hoping Im not five
to Carol-I am going to try to limit my responses to one or two a day- so sorry I have been so annoying to Carol and others-but you could just say it was annoying instead of being insulting -also there is a delete button to John B- thank you for the book-you are so kind to Walter c- thank you so much for the music! I have been listening to it while reading fluxlist- it goes rather well- so nice of you to Allen- so sorry I am one of the culprits who has driven you to the edge to Josh- I love the idea of your party but if a few of us want to get scrappy and take it outin the field so what? And I would love to join in on the box and I am sure I could contribute to the Dummie book since I am pretty dumb particularly about fluxus and computers to everyone- I think if you dont like certain people on the list you have the power to delete!! I would say the only moderation is perhaps a warning to newcomers and people who come back after a long hiatus that there is some dualing going on. I am only in my thirtyninth year as an artist but I feel censorship is anti art! Fluxus by its very nature is pretty elitist- we are all probably white mid to uppermiddle class people and frankly this lists' lack of censorship is what makes it appealing and gives hope for non elitist ideas, diversity. yours in art love peace and nothing wrong with a good fight once in awhile Madawg
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
On 1/2/03 12:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric IPUT also? i don't think that this is good 2003 AD If Eric and IPUT had ever contributed anything that wasn't a snotty putdown, colored by arch pissy self-interest and self-promotion, I would say you were right. But if you search the archives, you will find nothing from them other than the above. They have each had a million chances to contribute, and all they've done is shit on the rug. Please tell me one thing that either entity you mention has posted to this list that was worth reading. AK On Wed, 01 Jan 2003 19:15:13 -0500, allen bukoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe 2003 is a time to renew Fluxlist. Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:04:12 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Majordomo results: remove eric anderson st auby tamas
Re: FLUXLIST: mIEKAL aND
CDR sounds great, thanks for the duplication offer, but if we go this way all participants should cover the materials costs - in fact this brings up an interesting point - do we want to make some extra copies to sell to non-participants (directly or through Printed Matter or Art Metropole, or??) this way we might cover the costs of some of the materials without paying out of pocket (in the end). . . . Owen actually what I was thinking of was having a cdr inside of the fluxbox Im offering to donate the blanks do all the dubbing provided were still talking 50-100 copy range. being one of the small press dinosaurs, I always vote for extra copies to spread around. mIEKAL
FLUXLIST: MY FLUXBOX BROKE :-(
So my box broke at the hinges has anybody else had that problem yet? happy new year BTW! CECIL Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Owen Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 11:30 AM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: mIEKAL aND [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if there are any of box one left I highly recommend the sackner archive john b's avant writing collection as other notable repositories. One did indeed go to the Sackner, but I don't think to john's and I am not sure if there are any left, in fact I am fairly sure that they are all gone, but I will check. . . if there are others interested in audio, Id be willing to put together dupe a pile of cdrs. my blue fronted amazon parrot is ready for his recording debut. CDR sounds great, thanks for the duplication offer, but if we go this way all participants should cover the materials costs - in fact this brings up an interesting point - do we want to make some extra copies to sell to non-participants (directly or through Printed Matter or Art Metropole, or??) this way we might cover the costs of some of the materials without paying out of pocket (in the end). . . . Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: brain
On 1/2/03 1:29 PM, St.Auby Tamas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please, Fluxlisters, bring back to the list Kandinskij, our shiny-shiny cock! Let's vote! Thank you! H, a101a Shiny-Shiny Cock?! peepee aggression rules the day? My 13yrold has infinitely greater quantities of sense, kindness, humor, and clever happy rudeness, than you or the really superlame Kandinskij. You smell of old belgian undershorts, and your mother used to hide your shoes to see you cry. AK
Re: FLUXLIST: mIEKAL aND
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: actually what I was thinking of was having a cdr inside of the fluxbox Im offering to donate the blanks do all the dubbing provided were still talking 50-100 copy range. OK, that's what I thought as well - the first box had a CD, but it was by one of the contributors not a compilation. being one of the small press dinosaurs, I always vote for extra copies to spread around. I agree, not that you are a dinosaur, but more to spread around. . . . Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: open email to everyone hoping Im not five
Title: Re: FLUXLIST: open email to everyone hoping Im not five On 1/2/03 1:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am only in my thirtyninth year as an artist but I feel censorship is anti art! Fluxus by its very nature is pretty elitist- we are all probably white mid to uppermiddle class people and frankly this lists' lack of censorship is what makes it appealing and gives hope for non elitist ideas, diversity. yours in art love peace and nothing wrong with a good fight once in awhile Madawg A *good * fight *once in a while * is a good way to put it. A really boring fight all the goddamn time is different. No one is censoring ideas, nonelitist or otherwise. There were no ideas discernable in the stream of crapulous insults issuing from the K person. AK
Re: FLUXLIST: MY FLUXBOX BROKE :-(
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So my box broke at the hinges has anybody else had that problem yet? happy new year BTW! CECIL Yes, one of the unfortunate sides of using the form of plastic boxes (cheep, with flexi hinges) that we did. . . . Owen
FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
Owen writes: I am willing to organize again, although I am also more than willing to pass the mantel on if someone else wants to take on the role of organizer for the project, Josh? From my point of view, the first Box went so well that I think you SHOULD do it. However, I am willing to do it. So far after a day or so, 16 people have expressed interest in the project. If we go ahead with this, the box must be chosen. Any ideas? My wife suggests I go to The Container Store (yes, the U.S. has a chain of stores that specializes in stuff to put other stuff in...) and see if anything looks promising. I will also see what we have laying around the junk closets at school. There are some interesting boxes here, but not enough for this project. I think a CDR would be a great inclusion. -Josh Ronsen in Austin, Texas Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
what about some wooden boxes custom made down here in mexico? cecil Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Josh Ronsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:02 PM Subject: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2 Owen writes: I am willing to organize again, although I am also more than willing to pass the mantel on if someone else wants to take on the role of organizer for the project, Josh? From my point of view, the first Box went so well that I think you SHOULD do it. However, I am willing to do it. So far after a day or so, 16 people have expressed interest in the project. If we go ahead with this, the box must be chosen. Any ideas? My wife suggests I go to The Container Store (yes, the U.S. has a chain of stores that specializes in stuff to put other stuff in...) and see if anything looks promising. I will also see what we have laying around the junk closets at school. There are some interesting boxes here, but not enough for this project. I think a CDR would be a great inclusion. -Josh Ronsen in Austin, Texas Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com
FLUXLIST: censorship
Hi all, I'm currently on holiday so only going to say a little. 1. I fully support Allen Bukoff's recent actions. 2. Those expelled should leave with good grace. This list runs on majordomo and the software allows much stricter expulsions than have been currently implemented. If Eric and others want their inbox filled with negative drivel I suggest they start their own list rather than expecting others to maintain a forum for their tedium. 3. This list is truly a gem for many of us, the negative posters have had a free reign for six years. I think they've been given a fair chance. Okay, back to my holiday. I shall be back next week, I have to say I'm enjoying the positive vibes coming through now and am in support of any creative projects that will allow us all to work productively together again. cheers, Sol.
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: what about some wooden boxes custom made down here in mexico? cecil Sounds like a very interesting idea Cecil - what are the options and costs of such a venture?? - Maybe it does not even have to be custom, might there be some wooden boxes made for some other use that we can creatively reuse? Fluxlist in tomatillo crates, i like it. . . . Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
what about we all find a pile of boxes which exceed certain minimum dimensions? no 2 alike. On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 04:28 PM, cecil touchon wrote: what about some wooden boxes custom made down here in mexico? cecil
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
That could be a cool idea... how about we each come up with a box, put our contribution if 50 or whatever number works into it, ship it and then the central clearing house shuffles up the boxes so that no one gets the one they sent? I hope that makes sense. cecil Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: mIEKAL aND [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2 what about we all find a pile of boxes which exceed certain minimum dimensions? no 2 alike. On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 04:28 PM, cecil touchon wrote: what about some wooden boxes custom made down here in mexico? cecil
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That could be a cool idea... how about we each come up with a box, put our contribution if 50 or whatever number works into it, ship it and then the central clearing house shuffles up the boxes so that no one gets the one they sent? I hope that makes sense. cecil This makes sense but - we would have to each contribute more that 1 - follow the logic - if there were say 25 contributing artists and we wanted to do an edition of 100 then each person would have to contribute four boxes, right? We would also need to set some parameters (min and max size) and design a label that would be flexible enough to accommodate the different sizes and types of boxes. Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
good point. or the label could actually be like a card stock weight pamphlet index of the contents sort of like for a music CD or something like that. cecil Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Owen Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That could be a cool idea... how about we each come up with a box, put our contribution if 50 or whatever number works into it, ship it and then the central clearing house shuffles up the boxes so that no one gets the one they sent? I hope that makes sense. cecil This makes sense but - we would have to each contribute more that 1 - follow the logic - if there were say 25 contributing artists and we wanted to do an edition of 100 then each person would have to contribute four boxes, right? We would also need to set some parameters (min and max size) and design a label that would be flexible enough to accommodate the different sizes and types of boxes. Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
Fluxlist in tomatillo crates, i like it. . . . yes that's a cool idea too: agriflux. Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Owen Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:50 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: what about some wooden boxes custom made down here in mexico? cecil Sounds like a very interesting idea Cecil - what are the options and costs of such a venture?? - Maybe it does not even have to be custom, might there be some wooden boxes made for some other use that we can creatively reuse? Fluxlist in tomatillo crates, i like it. . . . Owen
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
then there's always ziploc freezer bags. you can get 50 for about $5, Holds a gallon of art with no spills and you can affix a sticker lable to the outside. in fact it seems rather fluxus to make our second box a plastic bag. Alex NP: Cat Power - Moon Pix From: cecil touchon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 15:42:19 -0800 Fluxlist in tomatillo crates, i like it. . . . yes that's a cool idea too: agriflux. Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Owen Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:50 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: what about some wooden boxes custom made down here in mexico? cecil Sounds like a very interesting idea Cecil - what are the options and costs of such a venture?? - Maybe it does not even have to be custom, might there be some wooden boxes made for some other use that we can creatively reuse? Fluxlist in tomatillo crates, i like it. . . . Owen _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
thank you thank you air is airyfreshing Vireo il mio cervello e' nella salsiera (my brain is in a gravy boat)email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: VireoIbis FAX: 703 935-7439Cup of Wonder and Nude Tent Torso journals-- http://www.vireopub.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]International Network of Kemetics-- http://www.inkemetic.orgClearingHouse of the Gods-- http://www.chotg.org - Original Message - From: allen bukoff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR Open the windows, let some stale air out, let some fresh air in.I swear I don't know what has gotten into me...abusing power like this.Maybe 2003 is a time to renew Fluxlist. Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:04:12 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Majordomo results: remove eric anderson st auby tamas xx remove FLUXLIST [EMAIL PROTECTED]Succeeded. xx remove FLUXLIST [EMAIL PROTECTED]Succeeded.
FLUXLIST: can 0'00' be a satire of 0'00'' ?
-- Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 11:52:57 -0600 From: Josh Ronsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FLUXLIST: more Ligeti stories A concurrent preoccupation was a strong influence of Duchampian dadaism. His 000, a satire of John Cage, has been described as the briefest composition ever written, and -snip--- I'm a bit confused. John Cage has also done a composition 0'00'' -- it's part of the 4'33'' trilogy [ aka the silence piece ], and dedicated to Yoko Ono and Toshi Ichiyanagi . What is Ligeti's 0'00'' ? Richard -- ___ Get your free email from http://mymail.operamail.com Powered by Outblaze
FLUXLIST: FLUXLIST Box #2
That could be a cool idea... how about we each come up with a box, put our contribution if 50 or whatever number works into it, ship it and then the central clearing house shuffles up the boxes so that no one gets the one they sent? Excellent idea. I like that. Oh, and count me in on the box project.
FLUXLIST: Brain
...and your mother used to hide your shoes to see you cry. Very good. That made me laugh. :-)
FLUXLIST: Re: 0'00
What is Ligeti's 0'00 ? I assume it is a joke of Ligeti on Cage's 4'33 and not related to Cage's 0'00 from 1962 (subtitled 4'33 No. 2). For all his pride in the piece, Cage maintained that his sole intervention was to alert listeners to ambient noise. His was a clear and humble statement of creative disownership. He raised no objection when younger composers built upon his breakthrough in 4'33 - notably when the German-based Hungarian Gyorgy Ligeti issued a concise version titled 0'00. -from http://www.naxos.com/newDesign/fopinions.files/bopinions.files/opinions133.htm Although I do not take the above quote to be proof of anything w/o a precise citation. -Josh Ronsen in Austin, Texas Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: 0'00
Well, what would happen if you performed the two pieces one after the other without a break? 4'33 followed by 0'00 Would you still end up with 4'33? - or if you followed 4'33 with Ligeti's 0'00 rather than Cage's. How would you be able to tell the difference? Suppose you composed a piece called (minus) 1'47 - in honour of Cage. But then performed it directly after Cage's work. Would this produce a new work called 2'46? Hmmm
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
Dear Allen, maintain his assertion that no one in real Fluxus considers Ken Friedman to be legitimate, Well, if I remember rightly, Ken accused him to be a compulsive liar (not exactly in these terms, of course, but that's what it meant) reminding the joke Erik did to Maciunas in the sixities...However, the point I want to make is not that Eric or Ken said that or that and showing who's the worst between the twos, what I'd like to say in fact, is that this is an opinion, no a unalterable truth, and that lots of others were having a different one from Ken (including myself, as Eric knows). BTW, it is today impossible to work with Ken and any other historicFLuxus on a concert or anything, one part or the other resign instantaneously, which, of course is a stupid and sad thing, but a reality too. and 2. that Fluxlist is a foolish enterprise, has nothing to do with Fluxus, and that those of us who participate are fools. Why would anyone even want to maintain membership on an email discussion list when this is their sole agenda? But if it was really the case, can you tell me why, since all this years, and with the amount of work that Eric has, why is he still on the list? this list, and I will stand corrected. I don't care if Eric was at Weisbaden in 1962 Actually, he was not, and you know that very well, don't you Allen? Anyway, I find it sad, that a stupid logomaniac as Mr. Death led us to such extremities. Bertrand
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
Dear Ann, Bertrand and all-- Allen had always resisted moderating the list, And I admired him for that, specially when he resisted doing that during Ken/Eric flame, because at that time, if I had been at his place, I would have moderate it. even when the nastiness of these particular people threw away some of the most interestng and productive people on the list. Now, perhaps your notion of fluxus is double-dosed with negative capability, particularly corrosive, cruel, and self-obsessed. Come on, Ann!! Don't get on that, it's OK now, Mr. Death is off, we don't need to infer and project such low and mean intentions to each other! I can't accept this from anyone, so please, if you intend to act in the defense of the respect, begin with you. If so, I would encourage a new fluxlist to form, this one inviting mutual insult. However, it seems to be the rough consensus on this particular fluxlist that self-obsessed insulting posts that mechanistically respond to any utterance with a curdled version of same are not desirable on a daily basis. So Allen is hailed for his chucking of these types. Repetitive insult is a form of throwing away of the person so insulted, and deserves similar treatment. Er... I'm sorry, but I don't have my dictionnary with me now, so I'm not sure I fully understood what you meant there, so I'm not sure about who you're pointing at (for example what means curdled?) Bertrand AK Dear Allen, I can't believe you've thrown away these fluxlisters! and if this is the case, I can't agree with such a choice. Tell me that I'm wrong in my inderstanding of this post. Best Bertrand - Original Message - From: allen bukoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 1:15 AM Subject: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR Open the windows, let some stale air out, let some fresh air in. I swear I don't know what has gotten into me...abusing power like this. Maybe 2003 is a time to renew Fluxlist. Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:04:12 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Majordomo results: remove eric anderson st auby tamas xx remove FLUXLIST [EMAIL PROTECTED] Succeeded. xx remove FLUXLIST [EMAIL PROTECTED] Succeeded.
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
I hope people who do not agree with these changes will simply leave the list. Go find or start another one. Email discussion groups are not a limited resource. Allen, What happen if they don't? will you invite them to leave, as you've just done with Eric and Tamas? What I mean is that I'm not willing to leave this list, nor am I to agree with your decision. What surprises me is how much the logorrheic delirium of Mr. Death have brought us so close to what he was denouncing: dictatorial behavior and censorship. I don't say you've been dictatorial in doing what you did, and you may have done it for good reasons, that you explained very precisely in some following posts, I just want to point out that having get us rid of Mr. Death, seems to have suddenly freed everyone so much that we're all ready to expell anyone that sounds different. I agree with Owen, that we should (or at least you should, as I'm not amongst the owners, so, in fact, I can't do anything about that) be more carefull with resigning people. The fact that Eric and Tamas can be rough or aggressive or cynical on the list, the fact that Ken chose to leave the list after his long flame with Eric, has nothing to do with what happened during Mr. Death sabotage attempt: Mr.Death had nothing to say apart of the little rhetoric tricks he repeated ad libitum, which have never been the case of Eric and Tamas. We may all feel better, in this purificated air -which is much different than pure air-but I'm sure we all know that purification, has nothing to do with freedom, democracy and creativity, and much to do with totalitarism, ploutocracy and academism. We should all step back a bit, instead of congratulating each other with the wonderful weather we have now on this list while beating our breasts to afraid the potential enemys. First firing Mr. Death Then Eric and Tamas Then preventing any new subscriber to come what will be the next step? Best, Bertrand
Re: FLUXLIST: brain
rudeness, than you or the really superlame Kandinskij. You smell of old belgian undershorts, and your mother used to hide your shoes to see you cry. C'mon Ann!! Behave yourself, you're on a semi-slightly half modestly moderated list now! ;-) Bertrand
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
Fluxlist is a foolish enterprise, has nothing to do with Fluxus, and that those of us who participate are fools. That's right this is not fluxus - it is fluxnexus. Fluxus is a dead thing that ran its course. We are all fluxnexus artists.(when we want to be.) some are dadafluxnexusists, some are practfluxnexusists and some proctofluxnexusists, full-o-flux-nexusists, some prepostfluxnexusists, antistructurofluxnexusists etc, and so on. Birds of all sorts are gathered in these branching moments. but I really don't know why Eric is on this list - just to give everyone some lip I guess - has anyone asked him? cecil Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bertrand Clavez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR Dear Allen, maintain his assertion that no one in real Fluxus considers Ken Friedman to be legitimate, Well, if I remember rightly, Ken accused him to be a compulsive liar (not exactly in these terms, of course, but that's what it meant) reminding the joke Erik did to Maciunas in the sixities...However, the point I want to make is not that Eric or Ken said that or that and showing who's the worst between the twos, what I'd like to say in fact, is that this is an opinion, no a unalterable truth, and that lots of others were having a different one from Ken (including myself, as Eric knows). BTW, it is today impossible to work with Ken and any other historicFLuxus on a concert or anything, one part or the other resign instantaneously, which, of course is a stupid and sad thing, but a reality too. and 2. that Fluxlist is a foolish enterprise, has nothing to do with Fluxus, and that those of us who participate are fools. Why would anyone even want to maintain membership on an email discussion list when this is their sole agenda? But if it was really the case, can you tell me why, since all this years, and with the amount of work that Eric has, why is he still on the list? this list, and I will stand corrected. I don't care if Eric was at Weisbaden in 1962 Actually, he was not, and you know that very well, don't you Allen? Anyway, I find it sad, that a stupid logomaniac as Mr. Death led us to such extremities. Bertrand
Re: FLUXLIST: Re: 0'00
Roger, Thank you you're the greatest Bertrand - Original Message - From: Roger STEVENS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 12:44 AM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: Re: 0'00 Well, what would happen if you performed the two pieces one after the other without a break? 4'33 followed by 0'00 Would you still end up with 4'33? - or if you followed 4'33 with Ligeti's 0'00 rather than Cage's. How would you be able to tell the difference? Suppose you composed a piece called (minus) 1'47 - in honour of Cage. But then performed it directly after Cage's work. Would this produce a new work called 2'46? Hmmm
RE: FLUXLIST: Re: FLUXLIST Box #2
i'd like to contribute some material for this new box a timeframe for the project will tell me what i can do! 2003 AD
FLUXLIST: Slug Tag Update
Tags and other goodies went in today's mail to Josh Ronsen and John Bennett -- watch your mail! and I will check mine tomorrow Slugs and kitsches, Melissa Melissa McCarthy Hours: whimsical or by appointment Adult, maybe; grown-up, never! [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, allen bukoff wrote: I hope people who do not agree with these changes will simply leave the list. Go find or start another one. Is this what democracy looks like? Unfortunate. Especially for an arts list; and perhaps especially for a fluxist list... The inspiring thing about lists (and most are truly open), is that they are visibly self-governing. /:b
Re: FLUXLIST: MY FLUXBOX BROKE :-(
my hinges are also 'at fault' however it seems somewhat fitting to have a handicapped flux box --- cecil touchon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So my box broke at the hinges has anybody else had that problem yet? happy new year BTW! CECIL Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD) Freshdot Domain Name Registrations transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/ Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Owen Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 11:30 AM Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: mIEKAL aND [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: if there are any of box one left I highly recommend the sackner archive john b's avant writing collection as other notable repositories. One did indeed go to the Sackner, but I don't think to john's and I am not sure if there are any left, in fact I am fairly sure that they are all gone, but I will check. . . if there are others interested in audio, Id be willing to put together dupe a pile of cdrs. my blue fronted amazon parrot is ready for his recording debut. CDR sounds great, thanks for the duplication offer, but if we go this way all participants should cover the materials costs - in fact this brings up an interesting point - do we want to make some extra copies to sell to non-participants (directly or through Printed Matter or Art Metropole, or??) this way we might cover the costs of some of the materials without paying out of pocket (in the end). . . . Owen __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
haven't the barrage of comments from everyone in support of throwing various
individuals out been self-governing and democratic enough for you?
cheers.
---
From: { brad brace } [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:47:21 -0800 (PST)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, allen bukoff wrote:
I hope people who do not agree with these changes will simply leave the
list. Go find or start another one.
Is this what democracy looks like?
Unfortunate. Especially for an arts list; and perhaps
especially for a fluxist list... The inspiring thing about
lists (and most are truly open), is that they are visibly
self-governing.
/:b
FLUXLIST: harmony
Unfortunate. Especially for an arts list; and perhaps
especially for a fluxist list... The inspiring thing about
lists (and most are truly open), is that they are visibly
self-governing.
The Great Harmony does not always appear harmonious.
from
The Hidden Sphere http://hiddensphere.com/
Freshdot.com Web Hosting Service
Host 10 domains on one account for 12.95mo (USD)
Freshdot Domain Name Registrations
transfers $7.75 for .com, .net and .org - 8.75 for new .biz and .info
http://web-hosting.freshdot.com/
Cecil Touchon: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: matt benson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
haven't the barrage of comments from everyone in support of throwing
various
individuals out been self-governing and democratic enough for you?
cheers.
---
From: { brad brace } [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:47:21 -0800 (PST)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, allen bukoff wrote:
I hope people who do not agree with these changes will simply leave the
list. Go find or start another one.
Is this what democracy looks like?
Unfortunate. Especially for an arts list; and perhaps
especially for a fluxist list... The inspiring thing about
lists (and most are truly open), is that they are visibly
self-governing.
/:b
FLUXLIST: Please Count Me In
Really interested in Fluxbox II. Please count me in. Jesse
Re: FLUXLIST: MY FLUXBOX BROKE :-(
On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 10:51 PM, aliceklar wrote: my hinges are also 'at fault' however it seems somewhat fitting to have a handicapped flux box Just as I discovered what it was, I LOST Don Boyd's fluxus smile. ...and have yet to complete Owen Smith's Event for Geography.
FLUXLIST: The Camel Driver and the Adder
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0155.html#cameldriver
FLUXLIST: more snakes
168. Concerning a snake's venom and that of an evil man An evil man is more venomous than the snake, For the snake's venom may be neutralized by drugs, But what can counteract the venom of an evil man? 201. Holy men are bitten by the snake of words Which comes from the pit of vicious men. In order to transmute this poison One should drink the medicines of patience and of wisdom. 245. Counsel given to fools Excites but does not pacify. He who pours milk for a snake Is only increasing its venom. --Sakya Pandita Elegant Sayings
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 13:43:56 -0600, Ann Klefstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please tell me one thing that either entity you mention has posted to this list that was worth reading. this isn't the point at all! i prefer to do my own quality control... to humor you though: IPUT have forwarded several interesting links to the list Eric has offered his versions of various Flux incidents care, anne
Re: FLUXLIST: Please Count Me In
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 12:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IPUT have forwarded several interesting links to the list Did you not notice an offensive and slanderous ad hominen attack? Suspension is another technique used by moderated and semi-moderated lists. It's quite effective. The people get to say their bits and then are forced to 'lay low', generally because they didn't care enough to be thoughtful to begin with, (or were just too self-enamored to think about anyone else). Then they come back. Sometimes it takes a while but it's freedom vs. privacy vs. license (rights of the individual/group) and eventually there's a list equilibrium. Poison has its places, but requires patience and good judgment to shepherd, not just explosive bile. It takes a lot to be suspended. And those who provoke it aren't concerned about it enough to curtail their normal behavior. After a while can coerce more thoughtful behavior instead, not necessarily limited, it doesn't really restrict or dull. Envelope-pushers and rebels can have free reign. And not be restricted within a defined dialogue. What structured standard there is, should be open. Suspensions are often in episodes, like drinking wine in the bathroom, smoking cigarettes at the reservoir, cheating, lying about a friend, drugs or other, etc. Less often it's centered around a particular lunatic. Cruelty and extreme stupidity provoke suspension and censure; it's also abused by authority which doesn't have anything better to do. But that's unlikely to be the situation here. The present authority, loose as it is, is more negligent and benign than dictatorial, though any action taken under the rubric of authority will offend someone. Prohibition, execution and expulsion or would you prefer to be swallowed alive by sewerage and junk mail? See the Finnish model of criminal enforcement http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/02/international/europe/02FINL.html, it's not exactly tyranny. The democracy/vote model is probably a good one. Expulsion is a valuable tool, not just a manipulative lack of utter relativity disguised as a unilateral value judgment. Like the people at one of the jobs I work at say: Get those fucking idiots off the phone! They're full of shit. cheese
FLUXLIST: New subscription process
I have now reconfigured Fluxlist and Fluxlist-Digest so that any new subscription request will now bounce to the list-administrator (currently being handled by either Sol Nte or myself). I propose that each new requester receive something like the following email. As long as they respond that the rules make sense to them, they should then be officially subscribed by the list administrator (unless it can be determined that they are attempting to re-subscribe after having been kicked off). Anyone declining to provide information about themselves or permission to share this information with the list would NOT prevent anyone from being officially subscribed. If provided, this information could be used by the list-administrator to make a little announcement/introduction email to the list...so that we might have the chance to welcome new participants and immediately engage them on our list. What do you think, Fluxlisters? PLEASE READ AND RESPOND TO THIS EMAIL IN ORDER TO COMPLETE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO FLUXLIST. Thanks for submitting a subscription request to FLUXLIST. Here are the guidelines for our email discussion group: 1. We're throwing a Fluxus party - we're inviting artists, historians, critics and poets, anyone who wants to learn more about that movement, who wants serious discussion, who is searching for the truth, who wants to play with Fluxus ideas, who wants to understand them, extend them, dissect them, dance with them. And we won't mind if you just come along to find out more. Or are just curious. Or want to start a new Fluxus movement. Or think Fluxus is alive and well. Or think Fluxus is dead and buried and want to pray the night upon its grave. Or if you just want to listen to the music, try the cheese and little snacks and admire the wallpaper, that will be fine with us. We won't mind if you get together in groups of two or three and talk in special techno-language. We won't mind if you talk about non-Fluxus things now and again. Or offer to take the dog for a walk. Or have furtive sex in the bedroom. We won't mind if you voice ideas different to our own. In fact we welcome that. We won't mind if you leave early or stay until the end. 2. We'll kick out any obnoxious drunks or troublemakers. We'll kick out anyone trying to start a mean personal fight. [adapted from Fluxus Party by Roger Stevens] Fluxlist is not moderated. Once you're officially subscribed to Fluxlist, you'll be able to post text-only emails freely to the entire group. No html email or attachments, please. = Do the guidelines make sense to you? Would you mind telling me a little about yourself ? [string of words, sentence or two, brief bio] Would you mind if I share this information with Fluxlist to let the party know you've arrived? = please send your reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FLUXLIST: Re: 0'00
Roger STEVENS writes: - - or if you followed 4'33 with Ligeti's 0'00 rather than Cage's. How would you be able to tell the difference? I have not found out what the score/instructions for Ligeti's piece are. The stage setup could be quite elaborate, although brief. On Cage's 0'00: The title isn't the length of the piece, but rather the (Zen) instant of now that occurs when the performer undertakes his disciplined action. One could say the performer of 4'33 has a disciplined action, but this action, if you think about it, is paying attention to the passage of time, counting off the 3 movements of the piece. In 0'00 does not constrain the performer in such a way. The performer's (complete) attention is on the task, which unfolds however it unfolds and not due to the score. 0'00 is also interesting as it does not even specify the action, just the dynamic environment (maximun amplification). It was composed (and first performed) on October 24, 1962. I generally hate the who did something first game, but what Fluxus/pre-Fluxus event scores before this did not specify a particular action? It would become a common practice later (i.e. performance with Mr. T. from 1964 (I assume)). -Josh Ronsen in Austin, Texas Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com
Re: FLUXLIST: make that THREE and FOUR
Suspensions are often in episodes, like drinking wine in the bathroom, smoking cigarettes at the reservoir, cheating, lying about a friend, drugs or other, etc. Less often it's centered around a particular lunatic. should be: Group incidents are often centered around a particular lunatic acting out. A lot like performance art. But shouldn't someone do or say something when the lunatic starts inciting fire and driving people over the cliff. There may have been a frisson of galvanizing conflict, but it was usurped by a cold, damp, relentless undertow. Is it really kill or be killed? There's no resolution available when one ranting party is not available to shared dialogue. But an attempt needs to be made, for common decency.
