RE: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
We see what you are trying to do, what would be probably better rather than creating an extension, How about a more helpful / generic pre-processor Wiki -- XML And then you can add your own pre-processor extensions to say add BBCode-XML Then you can use your wiki-XML to change the wiki page into a valid XML document to be transformed into FO by xsl and then to pdf. Example: **this is a header** -- para style=header2this is a header/para Kindest regards Theresa Forster Senior Software Developer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
Thanks for your answer, Today, I made a working prototype with Saxon by using http://www.saxonica.com/documentation/extensibility/integratedfunctions.xml ExtensionFunctionCall s. It's a bit complicated since Saxon-HE 9.3 (or was it 9.2?) dropped support for calling static java methods from the stylesheet. It's also a pity that javax.xml.transform API does not provide a standard way to register additional functions, I will have to make specific extensions for Xalan AND Saxon and usage within stylesheets will differ too based on the transformer library you will use. Well, I know those problems are not directly related to FO(P) but I just wanted to rant a bit about it. Regards, Kalgon Andreas L. Delmelle wrote: On 14 Jun 2011, at 16:46, Glenn Adams wrote: You know, given the time spent answering questions about XSL and the XML+XSL - XSL-FO front-end (convenience mechanism) in FOP, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to rip out that function. Perhaps then folks would understand better that FOP is fundamentally an XSL-FO - output format processor. FOP did start that way, if I recall correctly. There was a time when including the possibility to feed XML+XSLT as input was considered a big win. I actually think going back makes little sense, especially given that the usage pattern for embedding is basic JAXP. Even if you feed FOP plain FO, an identity transformation is used nowadays, also when invoking via the CLI. Way back when, using the CLI with plain FO actually did not use the XSLT processor at all, just the XML parser. Another point would be that XSL-FO itself defines nearly all its examples in terms of XSLT that transforms semantic XML to FO... *shrug* It is easy to see how newcomers get confused. Ultimately, we could just respond with a link to the website, where it is darn' well explained what the recommended practice is in case of problems (i.e. submit FO, not XSLT; if the problem is XSLT, go to Mulberry etc.). Nonetheless, I'll probably never get tired of pointing it out to people --even if they do seem to lack the most basic web browsing skills sometimes... ;-) On 14 Jun 2011, at 12:09, kalgon wrote: snip / What I would like to know is how I can build a tree of FONodes (blocks, text, table...) programmatically while parsing my wiki text and feed that tree to the FOP engine. I've been looking at ElementMapping, XMLHandler and the likes but I can't get a good grip at how those are working. If somebody could point me to a good and complete tutorial on FOP extensions or send me a nice example of how to do it, that would help me a lot! In this particular case, I would agree with the assessment that a FO extension would not be the most efficient/productive choice. While I can explain how to insert a new Block into the stream, I still would not encourage it. The quick and dirty approach, with probably the highest probability of success, would be to just send the appropriate SAX events back to the FOTreeBuilder. So, your code would have to be full of: Attributes myAttrs = new AttributesImpl(); myAttrs.addAttribute(, font-weight, font-weight, CDATA, bold); ... builder.startElement(FO_URI, block, fo:block, myAttrs); ... builder.endElement(FO_URI, block, fo:block, myAttrs); I am not entirely certain it will always work, but I don't immediately see another way that would cheaply allow you to get potential property inheritance right, or have your content behave properly if it is contained in a fo:marker... This shows that FOP's API simply isn't designed with that in mind. Internally, it is meant to parse formatting objects from XML source. FO extensions only allow you to go so far. The extension mechanism is mainly meant to allow you to handle custom, foreign XML (= non-FO, e.g. to plug in a handler for your custom child object of fo:instream-foreign object; prime examples SVG, MathML, Barcode4J...). Translating flat text markup into FO (or more generally: XML), not so much. Don't get me wrong. I like the whole idea of being able to translate MediaWiki fragments directly into FO. Seems a very useful thing to have, however... Given the power of XSLT/XPath 2.0 to handle regex processing of unparsed text and consistent generation of valid XML(FO) nodes (even when the nesting levels get too difficult to follow for the human mind and its programming logic), this seems like THE weapon of choice for such a job. With a bit of imagination, one can easily keep this generic enough to work for a multitude of source XMLs. Just write a small stylesheet library to translate arbitrary MediaWiki markup into the corresponding FO syntax, and plug it into the main stylesheet. Sequences and xsl:functions are truly powerful stuff! If you feel generous, make it publicly available for everyone to try out/correct/extend... I'm quite sure it will get all the attention it deserves. We would gladly link to it from our website
RE: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
Can't you just XSLT the incoming document ?
Kindest regards
Theresa Forster
Senior Software Developer
-Original Message-
From: kalgon [mailto:kal...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 14 June 2011 11:09
To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Subject: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
Hi,
I would like to write a FOP extension to render text written in wiki syntax:
fo:block
fopwiki:wiki value={/root/description/text()} /
/fo:block
root
description
= title =
* item
* item
/description
/root
What I would like to know is how I can build a tree of FONodes (blocks,
text, table...) programmatically while parsing my wiki text and feed that
tree to the FOP engine. I've been looking at ElementMapping, XMLHandler and
the likes but I can't get a good grip at how those are working.
If somebody could point me to a good and complete tutorial on FOP extensions
or send me a nice example of how to do it, that would help me a lot!
Thanks,
Kalgon
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RE: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't
be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything.
Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would
require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want
to go.
Regards,
Kalgon
Theresa Jayne Forster wrote:
Can't you just XSLT the incoming document ?
Kindest regards
Theresa Forster
Senior Software Developer
-Original Message-
From: kalgon [mailto:kal...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 14 June 2011 11:09
To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Subject: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
Hi,
I would like to write a FOP extension to render text written in wiki
syntax:
fo:block
fopwiki:wiki value={/root/description/text()} /
/fo:block
root
description
= title =
* item
* item
/description
/root
What I would like to know is how I can build a tree of FONodes (blocks,
text, table...) programmatically while parsing my wiki text and feed that
tree to the FOP engine. I've been looking at ElementMapping, XMLHandler
and
the likes but I can't get a good grip at how those are working.
If somebody could point me to a good and complete tutorial on FOP
extensions
or send me a nice example of how to do it, that would help me a lot!
Thanks,
Kalgon
--
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Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
On 06/14/2011 07:25 AM, kalgon wrote: Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything. Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want to go. Except that’s how XSL works, and what FOP implements. FOP takes exactly[*] 1 kind of input: the FO markup in XML defined by the XSL Recommendations. Nearly all FOP users, as well as users of other XSL formatters, transform their source either with XSLT or some other tool into FO for presentation to the formatter. If FOP supports MediaWiki syntax natively, why not MoinMoin or some other wiki? Why not HTML, DocBook, DITA, CALS, ...? ~Chris [*] approximately -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence.” — RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
But then, what is the purpose of extensions? There are several extensions which generate barcodes (barcode4j, zxing-fop-qrcode)... so if I follow your reasoning, we should not use those and rather pre-generate the images and use fo:external-graphic, right? I don't see what you're talking about FOP supporting natively MediaWiki. How does it support MediaWiki? What I want to do is create an extension which can create a subtree of the FO tree (and reusing basic nodes like Block, Table, FOText) but I can't find any documentation explaining how to do that (if it's possible). I'd prefer an extension doing the wiki-fo transformation in one pass instead of having to write two XSL's with intermediate results: root description * item1 * item2 /description /root transformed to: root description fo:list-block fo:list-item.../fo:list-item fo:list-item.../fo:list-item /fo:list-item /description /root and then only transformed into full fo: fo:root ... /fo:root I prefer having a self-contained extension which does all the work for me. Regards, Kalgon Christopher R. Maden wrote: On 06/14/2011 07:25 AM, kalgon wrote: Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything. Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want to go. Except that’s how XSL works, and what FOP implements. FOP takes exactly[*] 1 kind of input: the FO markup in XML defined by the XSL Recommendations. Nearly all FOP users, as well as users of other XSL formatters, transform their source either with XSLT or some other tool into FO for presentation to the formatter. If FOP supports MediaWiki syntax natively, why not MoinMoin or some other wiki? Why not HTML, DocBook, DITA, CALS, ...? ~Chris [*] approximately -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence.” — RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/FOP-Extension-to-handle-Wiki-Syntax-tp31841403p31843185.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
RE: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
It could handle any format you want to write your input in as long as it can be translated to FO. If another format is commonly used for generating FOP input someone would just have to write an input translator extension. FOP doesn't even do anything with XML/XSL. It accepts input as XML/XSL as a courtesy extension. I wrote a transform with embedded code starting with data in XML using an XSL to translate it. Then I figured out how to generate FO and split that out as a separate step. That uses the javax transformer. That step doesn't use any FOP objects. If you think about it, output could be considered extensions also. The main task of the FOP is to input FO and generate the IF. Once that's laid out it can take various renderers and generate output so you have a PDF extension, a PNG extension, a TIFF extension, etc. They don't need to be in the FOP package. Someone who only wants to create PDFs doesn't need any classes which create PNGs. If you could break all the extensions out into subprojects it would make it a few extra steps to download but it would be simplified into smaller jars which of course load faster if you don't need them all. -Original Message- From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:cr...@maden.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:44 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax On 06/14/2011 07:25 AM, kalgon wrote: Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything. Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want to go. Except that's how XSL works, and what FOP implements. FOP takes exactly[*] 1 kind of input: the FO markup in XML defined by the XSL Recommendations. Nearly all FOP users, as well as users of other XSL formatters, transform their source either with XSLT or some other tool into FO for presentation to the formatter. If FOP supports MediaWiki syntax natively, why not MoinMoin or some other wiki? Why not HTML, DocBook, DITA, CALS, ...? ~Chris [*] approximately -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ Before I built a wall I'd ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence. - RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
On 06/14/2011 10:15 AM, kalgon wrote: But then, what is the purpose of extensions? There are several extensions which generate barcodes (barcode4j, zxing-fop-qrcode)... so if I follow your reasoning, we should not use those and rather pre-generate the images and use fo:external-graphic, right? There isn’t anything in the XSL Recommendation about barcodes, so a barcode extension made sense. True, graphics could have been used, but barcodes make a lot of sense as formatting artifacts as well. The MediaWiki markup for which you’re asking involves headings, paragraphs, and lists, which are already supported by XSL. No extension is needed to provide the functionality. I don't see what you're talking about FOP supporting natively MediaWiki. How does it support MediaWiki? It doesn’t. That’s what you are asking for. (Remember that “wiki” is a concept of user-edited Web sites; specific kinds of wiki software use different markup. Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia Foundation sites use software called MediaWiki.) What I want to do is create an extension which can create a subtree of the FO tree (and reusing basic nodes like Block, Table, FOText) but I can't find any documentation explaining how to do that (if it's possible). I'd prefer an extension doing the wiki-fo transformation in one pass instead of having to write two XSL's with intermediate results: I prefer having a self-contained extension which does all the work for me. That kind of encapsulated transformation makes a lot of sense. However, like other pre-FO transformations, it does not belong in FOP. FOP starts with XSL FO markup; transformations come before that. ~Chris -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence.” — RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
You know, given the time spent answering questions about XSL and the XML+XSL - XSL-FO front-end (convenience mechanism) in FOP, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to rip out that function. Perhaps then folks would understand better that FOP is fundamentally an XSL-FO - output format processor. As to the original comment, I agree with Eric that is is not appropriate to consider an FOP extension to accommodate semantics that apply to the XML+XSL - XSL-FO 'convenience mapping' mechanism. G. On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.comwrote: It could handle any format you want to write your input in as long as it can be translated to FO. If another format is commonly used for generating FOP input someone would just have to write an input translator extension. FOP doesn't even do anything with XML/XSL. It accepts input as XML/XSL as a courtesy extension. I wrote a transform with embedded code starting with data in XML using an XSL to translate it. Then I figured out how to generate FO and split that out as a separate step. That uses the javax transformer. That step doesn't use any FOP objects. If you think about it, output could be considered extensions also. The main task of the FOP is to input FO and generate the IF. Once that's laid out it can take various renderers and generate output so you have a PDF extension, a PNG extension, a TIFF extension, etc. They don't need to be in the FOP package. Someone who only wants to create PDFs doesn't need any classes which create PNGs. If you could break all the extensions out into subprojects it would make it a few extra steps to download but it would be simplified into smaller jars which of course load faster if you don't need them all. -Original Message- From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:cr...@maden.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:44 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax On 06/14/2011 07:25 AM, kalgon wrote: Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything. Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want to go. Except that's how XSL works, and what FOP implements. FOP takes exactly[*] 1 kind of input: the FO markup in XML defined by the XSL Recommendations. Nearly all FOP users, as well as users of other XSL formatters, transform their source either with XSLT or some other tool into FO for presentation to the formatter. If FOP supports MediaWiki syntax natively, why not MoinMoin or some other wiki? Why not HTML, DocBook, DITA, CALS, ...? ~Chris [*] approximately -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ Before I built a wall I'd ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence. - RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
On 06/14/2011 04:46 PM, Glenn Adams wrote: You know, given the time spent answering questions about XSL and the XML+XSL - XSL-FO front-end (convenience mechanism) in FOP, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to rip out that function. Perhaps then folks would understand better that FOP is fundamentally an XSL-FO - output format processor. As to the original comment, I agree with Eric that is is not appropriate to consider an FOP extension to accommodate semantics that apply to the XML+XSL - XSL-FO 'convenience mapping' mechanism. On the other hand, XSLT is not the best language for implementing wiki syntax rendering either. An alternative to writing a FOP extension would be to write an XSLT/XPath extension that handles the wiki syntax; instead of simply copying the textual content of the source element, do something like: xsl:value-of select=wiki:render(.)/. http://xml.apache.org/xalan-j/xpath_apis.html#functionresolver explains a bit what's needed to write a custom XPath function. You could use an existing Java library for wiki syntax rendering, such as http://rendering.xwiki.org/ G. On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com mailto:edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: It could handle any format you want to write your input in as long as it can be translated to FO. If another format is commonly used for generating FOP input someone would just have to write an input translator extension. FOP doesn't even do anything with XML/XSL. It accepts input as XML/XSL as a courtesy extension. I wrote a transform with embedded code starting with data in XML using an XSL to translate it. Then I figured out how to generate FO and split that out as a separate step. That uses the javax transformer. That step doesn't use any FOP objects. If you think about it, output could be considered extensions also. The main task of the FOP is to input FO and generate the IF. Once that's laid out it can take various renderers and generate output so you have a PDF extension, a PNG extension, a TIFF extension, etc. They don't need to be in the FOP package. Someone who only wants to create PDFs doesn't need any classes which create PNGs. If you could break all the extensions out into subprojects it would make it a few extra steps to download but it would be simplified into smaller jars which of course load faster if you don't need them all. -Original Message- From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:cr...@maden.org mailto:cr...@maden.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:44 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org mailto:fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax On 06/14/2011 07:25 AM, kalgon wrote: Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything. Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want to go. Except that's how XSL works, and what FOP implements. FOP takes exactly[*] 1 kind of input: the FO markup in XML defined by the XSL Recommendations. Nearly all FOP users, as well as users of other XSL formatters, transform their source either with XSLT or some other tool into FO for presentation to the formatter. If FOP supports MediaWiki syntax natively, why not MoinMoin or some other wiki? Why not HTML, DocBook, DITA, CALS, ...? ~Chris [*] approximately -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
Thanks for the explanation about MediaWiki: the term natively led me to think that FOP already had support for MediaWiki syntax. As I was talking about an extension, I didn't see how it could be done natively. So if the WIKI-FO-XML transformation does not belong to FOP, it surely belongs to the transformation part which comes before rendering. But then, I should use Saxon or Xalan specific extensions or does javax.xml.transform provide an unified way to do such a thing? I have currently no idea on how to do that but I suppose the wiki parsing routine will have to be called from inside the stylesheet and I have had bad experiences trying to call java code from xslt. And if javax.xml.transform does not provide a standard way to do that, I will have to create specific extensions for each xslt library (Saxon and Xalan). If I could do it directly through a FOP extension, I would not have those problems. So, now that I understand that such a processing is better done outside FOP, do you think there's a way I could do it inside though an extension? :-) If somebody has a simple example of how an extension could programmatically create a FOText inside a Block, I think I could handle the rest. Regards, Xavier Christopher R. Maden wrote: On 06/14/2011 10:15 AM, kalgon wrote: But then, what is the purpose of extensions? There are several extensions which generate barcodes (barcode4j, zxing-fop-qrcode)... so if I follow your reasoning, we should not use those and rather pre-generate the images and use fo:external-graphic, right? There isn’t anything in the XSL Recommendation about barcodes, so a barcode extension made sense. True, graphics could have been used, but barcodes make a lot of sense as formatting artifacts as well. The MediaWiki markup for which you’re asking involves headings, paragraphs, and lists, which are already supported by XSL. No extension is needed to provide the functionality. I don't see what you're talking about FOP supporting natively MediaWiki. How does it support MediaWiki? It doesn’t. That’s what you are asking for. (Remember that “wiki” is a concept of user-edited Web sites; specific kinds of wiki software use different markup. Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia Foundation sites use software called MediaWiki.) What I want to do is create an extension which can create a subtree of the FO tree (and reusing basic nodes like Block, Table, FOText) but I can't find any documentation explaining how to do that (if it's possible). I'd prefer an extension doing the wiki-fo transformation in one pass instead of having to write two XSL's with intermediate results: I prefer having a self-contained extension which does all the work for me. That kind of encapsulated transformation makes a lot of sense. However, like other pre-FO transformations, it does not belong in FOP. FOP starts with XSL FO markup; transformations come before that. ~Chris -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence.” — RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/FOP-Extension-to-handle-Wiki-Syntax-tp31841403p31843733.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
You know, given the time spent answering questions about XSL and the XML+XSL - XSL-FO front-end (convenience mechanism) in FOP, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to rip out that function. Perhaps then folks would understand better that FOP is fundamentally an XSL-FO - output format processor. As to the original comment, I agree with Eric that is is not appropriate to consider an FOP extension to accommodate semantics that apply to the XML+XSL - XSL-FO 'convenience mapping' mechanism. I understand but if we want to be strict, XSLT only transform from XML to another format (often XML but also Text). In my case wiki syntax is not XML so we could say it shouldn't be transformed through XSLT. Regards, Kalgon Glenn Adams-2 wrote: You know, given the time spent answering questions about XSL and the XML+XSL - XSL-FO front-end (convenience mechanism) in FOP, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to rip out that function. Perhaps then folks would understand better that FOP is fundamentally an XSL-FO - output format processor. As to the original comment, I agree with Eric that is is not appropriate to consider an FOP extension to accommodate semantics that apply to the XML+XSL - XSL-FO 'convenience mapping' mechanism. G. On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.comwrote: It could handle any format you want to write your input in as long as it can be translated to FO. If another format is commonly used for generating FOP input someone would just have to write an input translator extension. FOP doesn't even do anything with XML/XSL. It accepts input as XML/XSL as a courtesy extension. I wrote a transform with embedded code starting with data in XML using an XSL to translate it. Then I figured out how to generate FO and split that out as a separate step. That uses the javax transformer. That step doesn't use any FOP objects. If you think about it, output could be considered extensions also. The main task of the FOP is to input FO and generate the IF. Once that's laid out it can take various renderers and generate output so you have a PDF extension, a PNG extension, a TIFF extension, etc. They don't need to be in the FOP package. Someone who only wants to create PDFs doesn't need any classes which create PNGs. If you could break all the extensions out into subprojects it would make it a few extra steps to download but it would be simplified into smaller jars which of course load faster if you don't need them all. -Original Message- From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:cr...@maden.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:44 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax On 06/14/2011 07:25 AM, kalgon wrote: Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything. Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want to go. Except that's how XSL works, and what FOP implements. FOP takes exactly[*] 1 kind of input: the FO markup in XML defined by the XSL Recommendations. Nearly all FOP users, as well as users of other XSL formatters, transform their source either with XSLT or some other tool into FO for presentation to the formatter. If FOP supports MediaWiki syntax natively, why not MoinMoin or some other wiki? Why not HTML, DocBook, DITA, CALS, ...? ~Chris [*] approximately -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ Before I built a wall I'd ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence. - RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/FOP-Extension-to-handle-Wiki-Syntax-tp31841403p31843807.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
An alternative to writing a FOP extension would be to write an XSLT/XPath extension that handles the wiki syntax; instead of simply copying the textual content of the source element, do something like: xsl:value-of select=wiki:render(.)/. That's the practical solution but I always try to avoid manipulating XML like Strings (there could be namespace issues). I think that if I can't write an extension to do what I want, I will go that way. Regards, Kalgon Sergiu Dumitriu-2 wrote: On 06/14/2011 04:46 PM, Glenn Adams wrote: You know, given the time spent answering questions about XSL and the XML+XSL - XSL-FO front-end (convenience mechanism) in FOP, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to rip out that function. Perhaps then folks would understand better that FOP is fundamentally an XSL-FO - output format processor. As to the original comment, I agree with Eric that is is not appropriate to consider an FOP extension to accommodate semantics that apply to the XML+XSL - XSL-FO 'convenience mapping' mechanism. On the other hand, XSLT is not the best language for implementing wiki syntax rendering either. An alternative to writing a FOP extension would be to write an XSLT/XPath extension that handles the wiki syntax; instead of simply copying the textual content of the source element, do something like: xsl:value-of select=wiki:render(.)/. http://xml.apache.org/xalan-j/xpath_apis.html#functionresolver explains a bit what's needed to write a custom XPath function. You could use an existing Java library for wiki syntax rendering, such as http://rendering.xwiki.org/ G. On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com mailto:edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: It could handle any format you want to write your input in as long as it can be translated to FO. If another format is commonly used for generating FOP input someone would just have to write an input translator extension. FOP doesn't even do anything with XML/XSL. It accepts input as XML/XSL as a courtesy extension. I wrote a transform with embedded code starting with data in XML using an XSL to translate it. Then I figured out how to generate FO and split that out as a separate step. That uses the javax transformer. That step doesn't use any FOP objects. If you think about it, output could be considered extensions also. The main task of the FOP is to input FO and generate the IF. Once that's laid out it can take various renderers and generate output so you have a PDF extension, a PNG extension, a TIFF extension, etc. They don't need to be in the FOP package. Someone who only wants to create PDFs doesn't need any classes which create PNGs. If you could break all the extensions out into subprojects it would make it a few extra steps to download but it would be simplified into smaller jars which of course load faster if you don't need them all. -Original Message- From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:cr...@maden.org mailto:cr...@maden.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:44 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org mailto:fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax On 06/14/2011 07:25 AM, kalgon wrote: Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything. Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want to go. Except that's how XSL works, and what FOP implements. FOP takes exactly[*] 1 kind of input: the FO markup in XML defined by the XSL Recommendations. Nearly all FOP users, as well as users of other XSL formatters, transform their source either with XSLT or some other tool into FO for presentation to the formatter. If FOP supports MediaWiki syntax natively, why not MoinMoin or some other wiki? Why not HTML, DocBook, DITA, CALS, ...? ~Chris [*] approximately -- Sergiu Dumitriu http://purl.org/net/sergiu/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/FOP-Extension-to-handle-Wiki-Syntax-tp31841403p31843863.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
On 06/14/2011 11:23 AM, kalgon wrote: I understand but if we want to be strict, XSLT only transform from XML to another format (often XML but also Text). In my case wiki syntax is not XML so we could say it shouldn't be transformed through XSLT. Text nodes are part of XML... XSLT can handle processing the contents of those text nodes. However, it’s not always the best tool for doing that. I would probably write something in your language-of-choice that takes in an XML tree and writes it out identically, except for upgrading the free-text markup. There are converters out there to do it... the Freebase BFG project used one written by one of the original Wikipedia markup designers... see URL: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske . This has gotten off-topic for FOP. If you decide to do this in XSLT, see URL: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/ . Otherwise, see the discussion fora for whatever other programming language you’re using. ~Chris -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence.” — RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
RE: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
I'm not sure where I suggested it's not appropriate to consider an extension. I believe I suggested as you say it might be better to rip out the function of allowing XML and XSL as input, to provide a separate convenience jar and/or the code to embed that process, since creating the FO doesn't involve any fop classes. I already split out that process in my embedded code if you want to see the 2 step. I don't know what the wiki text looks like or how common it might be for users to want to use it as input. If it has a standard format which can be translated to FO tags and someone wants to write the code to translate it, it would be nice if code like that could be included as a separate download on the fop site. I'm not sure what you consider an extension (plugin?) if they're normally compiled into the fop.jar, if they're separate jars to download to call as separate tasks, or if they're separate jars to put on the classpath to accept different types of values from the mainline fop (ie the -xml -xsl tags)? I think anything unique to one type of input or output can be a separate jar with the code kept separately whether you call them extensions, plugins, or subprojects. They can either be documented second step processes (output of this = input of that) or extension options (use -xml and -xsl tags to send input as xml instead of the -fo tag). From: Glenn Adams [mailto:gl...@skynav.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:47 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax You know, given the time spent answering questions about XSL and the XML+XSL - XSL-FO front-end (convenience mechanism) in FOP, I sometimes wonder if it would be better to rip out that function. Perhaps then folks would understand better that FOP is fundamentally an XSL-FO - output format processor. As to the original comment, I agree with Eric that is is not appropriate to consider an FOP extension to accommodate semantics that apply to the XML+XSL - XSL-FO 'convenience mapping' mechanism. G. On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: It could handle any format you want to write your input in as long as it can be translated to FO. If another format is commonly used for generating FOP input someone would just have to write an input translator extension. FOP doesn't even do anything with XML/XSL. It accepts input as XML/XSL as a courtesy extension. I wrote a transform with embedded code starting with data in XML using an XSL to translate it. Then I figured out how to generate FO and split that out as a separate step. That uses the javax transformer. That step doesn't use any FOP objects. If you think about it, output could be considered extensions also. The main task of the FOP is to input FO and generate the IF. Once that's laid out it can take various renderers and generate output so you have a PDF extension, a PNG extension, a TIFF extension, etc. They don't need to be in the FOP package. Someone who only wants to create PDFs doesn't need any classes which create PNGs. If you could break all the extensions out into subprojects it would make it a few extra steps to download but it would be simplified into smaller jars which of course load faster if you don't need them all. -Original Message- From: Christopher R. Maden [mailto:cr...@maden.org] Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:44 AM To: fop-users@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax On 06/14/2011 07:25 AM, kalgon wrote: Yes I could transform the XML prior to rendering it to PDF but that wouldn't be as nice and clean as an extension which would take care of everything. Moreover, an extension can be reused whereas pre-transforming the XML would require a specific XSLT for each XML schema... definitely not the way I want to go. Except that's how XSL works, and what FOP implements. FOP takes exactly[*] 1 kind of input: the FO markup in XML defined by the XSL Recommendations. Nearly all FOP users, as well as users of other XSL formatters, transform their source either with XSLT or some other tool into FO for presentation to the formatter. If FOP supports MediaWiki syntax natively, why not MoinMoin or some other wiki? Why not HTML, DocBook, DITA, CALS, ...? ~Chris [*] approximately -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ Before I built a wall I'd ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence. - RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
We have success editing the fo programmatically, parsing out some special strings our application embeds in the xml/text nodes. Not something we're necessarily proud of, but it works perfectly well. On 06/14/2011 09:54 AM, kalgon wrote: You're right, I shouldn't have been talking so much about the context of what I want to achieve, the only question that matters to me is: is it possible for an extension to programmatically add standard FO nodes to the main FO tree, if yes how?. That is all I want to know and until now, nobody has been able to answer that question. I see that FOP does have a lot of extension points but very few documentation about their usage, and I don't mind it this is not the correct way of doing things. I never started the debate about that, I just wanted a simple plain answer to my question. Regards, Kalgon Christopher R. Maden wrote: On 06/14/2011 11:23 AM, kalgon wrote: I understand but if we want to be strict, XSLT only transform from XML to another format (often XML but also Text). In my case wiki syntax is not XML so we could say it shouldn't be transformed through XSLT. Text nodes are part of XML... XSLT can handle processing the contents of those text nodes. However, it’s not always the best tool for doing that. I would probably write something in your language-of-choice that takes in an XML tree and writes it out identically, except for upgrading the free-text markup. There are converters out there to do it... the Freebase BFG project used one written by one of the original Wikipedia markup designers... see URL: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske. This has gotten off-topic for FOP. If you decide to do this in XSLT, seeURL: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/. Otherwise, see the discussion fora for whatever other programming language you’re using. ~Chris -- Chris Maden, text nerdURL: http://crism.maden.org/ “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence.” — RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
Re: FOP Extension to handle Wiki Syntax
Of course, an extension can do anything you want. But you have to define it and write the Java that implements it. Again, I question the basis of your question. The XSL-FO tree starts out as an XML document, having the root node of fo:root, and adhering to the XSL-FO specification. You should write an external tool that takes whatever format you like (wiki) and translates it to XSL-FO, then feed that to FOP. Forget about the XML/XSLT to XSL-FO front-end preprocessor in FOP. If you want to define an extension to do what you want in FOP, you are basically asking for an extension to the front end XML/XSLT processing convenience mechanism in FOP. However, this is based on off-the-shelf XML and XSLT tools (xerces, xalan). So basically, you are asking for an extension to one of these latter tools, not an extension for XSL-FO. G. On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:54 AM, kalgon kal...@hotmail.com wrote: You're right, I shouldn't have been talking so much about the context of what I want to achieve, the only question that matters to me is: is it possible for an extension to programmatically add standard FO nodes to the main FO tree, if yes how?. That is all I want to know and until now, nobody has been able to answer that question. I see that FOP does have a lot of extension points but very few documentation about their usage, and I don't mind it this is not the correct way of doing things. I never started the debate about that, I just wanted a simple plain answer to my question. Regards, Kalgon Christopher R. Maden wrote: On 06/14/2011 11:23 AM, kalgon wrote: I understand but if we want to be strict, XSLT only transform from XML to another format (often XML but also Text). In my case wiki syntax is not XML so we could say it shouldn't be transformed through XSLT. Text nodes are part of XML... XSLT can handle processing the contents of those text nodes. However, it’s not always the best tool for doing that. I would probably write something in your language-of-choice that takes in an XML tree and writes it out identically, except for upgrading the free-text markup. There are converters out there to do it... the Freebase BFG project used one written by one of the original Wikipedia markup designers... see URL: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske. This has gotten off-topic for FOP. If you decide to do this in XSLT, see URL: http://www.mulberrytech.com/xsl/xsl-list/ . Otherwise, see the discussion fora for whatever other programming language you’re using. ~Chris -- Chris Maden, text nerd URL: http://crism.maden.org/ “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know / What I was walling in or out, / And to whom I was like to give offence.” — RF, Mending Wall GnuPG Fingerprint: C6E4 E2A9 C9F8 71AC 9724 CAA3 19F8 6677 0077 C319 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/FOP-Extension-to-handle-Wiki-Syntax-tp31841403p31844121.html Sent from the FOP - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: fop-users-unsubscr...@xmlgraphics.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: fop-users-h...@xmlgraphics.apache.org
